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May 1, 2025 • 93 mins

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Welcome to episode 88 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino discuss one of the Buddha’s key teachings: the four immeasurable minds. When cultivated, these four qualities – love, compassion, joy, and equanimity – can help heal negative emotions and lead to a more fulfilling, compassionate life. 

Both hosts share personal stories and insights about how to apply these teachings, and how to help transform suffering and cultivate a deeper understanding and connection with ourselves and those around us. They emphasize the importance of self-love, deep listening, and embracing interbeing, as well as the power of small acts of kindness, the role of playfulness, the wisdom of non-discrimination in leading a more fulfilling life, and more.


Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/  

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/


List of resources

Donate to support Plum Village’s reconstruction 
https://plumvillage.org/donate

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing  

The Four Immeasurable Minds
https://tnhaudio.org/tag/four-immeasurable-minds

Dharma Talk: ‘The Four Immeasurable Minds – The Four Elements of True Love’ with Sister Dieu Nghiem (Sister Jina)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKXJIdhJJHo

Brahmavihara
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmavihara

Sariputra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C4%81riputra

Sister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khong

Maitri
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitr%C4%AB

Order of Interbeing
https://orderofinterbeing.org/ 

Trevor Noah
https://www.trevornoah.com/about

‘Listening to Namo Avalokiteshvara’
https://plumvillage.app/listening-to-namo-avalokiteshvara/ 

Upeksha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upeksha_(Indian_thought) 


Quotes

“If you learn to practice love, compassion, joy, and equanimity, you will know how to heal the illnesses of anger, sorrow, insecurity, sadness, hatred, loneliness, and unhealthy attachments.” 

“You have to learn to be like the Earth. The Earth doesn’t discriminate; it accepts all and is the mother of all.”

“Understanding is love, and it’s the most profound love because, when you understand, there’s no longer a barrier between you and me as separate people.” 

“The safest foundation is understanding. When you have that, you can work tirelessly because your understanding is your compass. And it can give you so much insight and so many ways of bridging the separation.” 

“One word can release suffering, one action can save a life.” 

“Looking with eyes of compassion, we can listen deeply to the cries of the world.”

“There is a truth in Buddhism that, no matter what condition you’re going to find yourself in, suffering’s going to be there; your mind is going to create moments of ‘you’re not enough’.” 

“Why not be soft? There

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