August 21, 2024 • 24 mins
Mark Cho, founder of The Armoury, posted a list of his 12 principles of watch collecting that he's put together after many years of collecting and learning. And in this episode we talk about the first 6.
See his post here:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:08):
Welcome to this Watch LIVE. Hi, I'm Lydia Winters.
And I'm Boo booey. OK, I love learning about how,
like, other people's collecting philosophy.
So I was extra excited when someone that I admire and think
is awesome, Mark Cho, founder ofthe Armory, all around nice,
(00:29):
humble guy. I got to meet him in New York.
I already, like, did a whole fanepisode about my New York trip
and seeing all these cool watch people.
He's also a prolific collector. And he posted of watches.
Yeah, probably. And also menswear.
Yeah, I mean, menswear most. People who collect watches I, I
I you. Collect other stuff too.
(00:50):
Yes. But he published 12 principles
of watch collecting, and he saidhe summarizes his thoughts on
watch collecting into 12 points.And we're going to do this as
two parts because he did 12. And we, we must talk more.
I I didn't have faith. So, you know, we have our little
(01:12):
intro bid. It takes a couple minutes.
So then what? We're going to talk for one
minute each? No, that's not.
Speed Round podcast, We're goingto do the first six and just
discuss what we think about them.
I do think it's funny that we'vechosen to do a daily 20 minute
podcast. But we always want to talk more.
Always want to talk more than 20minutes?
(01:34):
Well, OK, it either has to be daily or it has to be one really
long podcast. It's five hours.
Here we go. OK #1 Rare watches are not
always great. Great watches are not always
rare. This sounds like wisdom.
It does. I like it.
Has the vibe of wisdom and. Those are written in a wisdom
(01:55):
and shareable way, which I appreciate.
No. I like I love these.
This one I think is a great #1 because I feel like it's also
the most easy thing to agree with as well.
And you, you can understand the concept very quickly.
Like I think about because, OK, there's always the, the thought
(02:17):
of like finding that rare gem somewhere, but it's because
there's actually tons of rare watches out there.
You can find them quite easily. I have been to like little flea
markets or vintage stores and there's a bin of watches and
I've never heard of those brandsand everything.
(02:38):
And they're probably quite rare because they're from the distant
past and because they weren't valuable, right?
Like a lot of things become rarebecause no one values them, so
no one keeps them. So they just kind of as they
break or whatever, you don't maintain things that you don't
value and therefore they become more and more rare because no
one kept them. Well, sometimes.
(02:59):
And it's rare for rare's sake versus for a specific reason,
which I think is a good reminderbecause sometimes I do want
something that's rare. Just because it's rare?
Yeah. Yeah, like I'm not above it, but
I think it's also good to remember because in those
moments where I am like, oh, I want something rare or hard to
get, not all great watches are those things.
(03:22):
So there are so many great watches that are easier to get
that are not rare, but they're incredible.
The watch that Mark posted aboutfor this specific one, he's
going to go through all of the numbers on his Instagram and
give like a little more. Detail each one of his points,
yeah. Through each one.
One post. Per point, yeah.
So we're going to make our opinions of his points based on
(03:44):
the one sentence, not the full. Exactly the full explanation.
But he actually had a picture ofthe King Seiko that you bought.
Yes, which is again, that's a great example of a wonderful
watch that is not rare. And also the first time I saw
that watch was on Alex who worksat the Armory and he said how
much Mark loves that watch too, which is true.
(04:07):
Well, OK, so you know, and at a different price point like my
Rolex GMT Master two Pepsi, I think is a truly great watch.
And even though people kind of feel it might be rare because it
sells for over retail. Hard to get in rare or not the.
Same. Yeah, exactly it is not rare.
(04:29):
I checked. There's right now 1000 of them
on Chrono 24. The current model.
Like that's a lot, right? So it is not a rare watch,
right, but it's a great watch. So yeah, this is this one's
pretty pretty, pretty easy to agree with.
Number one, we're starting. We're starting in the.
(04:50):
Yeah, when I think about my creator locomotive, which I'll
get now, it's coming up pretty soon, end of September, early
October. I wonder how much.
Like, no, no, no, I'm very excited.
I love it, but I still haven't seen it.
So I had to make my decision based on the rare.
Well, in the sense of like, if Ididn't, yeah.
(05:12):
Like if I didn't say I want it, then you can't get it.
I'm never gonna get it later. Yeah, you have to buy this one
sight unseen if you want it new.Yeah, so I think some watches
they they push you or brand. No one pushed, No.
No, no, not push you, but you have to make the decision faster
because of the rarity. Because of the rarity, not
(05:34):
because of only the greatness ofit.
It's a dual. Quite a few watches are like any
of the watches where like CoronaTokyo writes Ming.
Watches are all amazing. Watches.
I'm just saying that sometimes the rarity or the limitedness or
the, you know, yeah, the limited.
Version that. That's what drives.
(05:56):
It can, it can or no? It can accelerate it.
You have to make the decision quicker.
You don't have the time. Find out if you like that look.
OK, I. Really hope no I.
Do I do I'm going to I'm very excited about it, but I still
never got have gotten to see it or try it on which those are
some of my rules of not things I'm not.
Supposed. To do OK #2 Unpopular watches
(06:20):
may become popular, but rare watches will always remain rare.
I, I, I get where this is going.Like the first thing that comes
to mind is the old tales of the Daytona and back in the day, you
know, back in my day, they couldn't give these things away.
Like Daytona's were pretty much paperweights.
(06:43):
And they give them to you for free at the AD when you buy a
nicer watch, right? Like the literally.
Have heard these stories, great reference.
In, in, in, told in serious ways.
How much truth there is to that,I don't know.
I wasn't there. No, but yes.
But now, obviously. The daytime unpopular watch may
(07:04):
become popular. OK, so we agree with the first
part. But also like lots of watches
that are unpopular become popular.
Yeah, I mean, we've been talkingabout the Geezer watch.
Those are watches that. We really got schooled by Darren
on Geezerness. Yes, exactly.
But the those watches are some of the watches that haven't been
(07:29):
very popular for a long time. And I think, I mean, if we look
at the the F1, the tag Hoyer F1 watches, it's like those came
into a very big fashion, not just from the re release, but
from, you know, people started getting excited.
Then they did the collaboration.Now they're very popular.
Will they go back to being kind of, you know, just mildly
(07:52):
popular? Probably.
Or not. Who knows, Like reissues is a
huge way that things become popular again.
Like the Vesher on 222 that you had wanted to purchase and you
were like, look, there's there'squite a few out there, you said.
This to me my biggest mistake. There's quite a few out there.
(08:12):
They're fairly affordable. I'll get one eventually and then
they do the reissue. Yes.
And then all of a sudden they'reso popular that the vintage one
surge in price or. Any brand does a teaser and I
really wanted the the the vintage version version of it.
I'm just gonna like, buy. It right then because yeah, I
made such. A huge mistake.
(08:33):
Before the prices move big, celebrities also move prices,
prices the how popular somethingis.
Like, you know, the stories of Sylvester Stallone and Panarai,
You know, what's the true story there?
We'll never know. But but a little bit more easy
to verify 'cause we kind of it happened during this digital age
(08:56):
is like John Mayer and Ed Sheeran talking about Kikuchi
Nakagawa and those watches now becoming so unobtainable that
they just had to stop taking orders, right?
Like so lots. I'm not saying they were
unpopular, but they definitely are much more popular.
So they were unpopular before incomparison to now.
(09:17):
But those are also already rare and then will remain rare.
So that's kind of interesting. So here's OK, here's.
OK, OK. I, I agree that typically
something that's rare will remain rare because, and this is
the big thing, because it's goodbusiness, right?
(09:38):
So most people will make the decisions to keep rare things
rare, like most business minds would do that because it's, it's
probably going to be good for their business.
But just as a thought example, right, you have Hajime Asayoka,
right? Those watches that he makes,
(09:59):
Hajimea Sayoka watches, not the Corona.
Watches, they're amazing. I got to see one in person and I
was like, don't breathe on it so.
I, I, I like that was amazing. We got to see that one in Geneva
in 2020. He reportedly made 7 watches.
OK, four tsunamis, 2 turbines and one chronograph.
(10:20):
So that's rare. Those are rare watches when
we're talking about, you know, just the watch world.
He could decide to change how heproduces watches and have other
people do more parts of the process and less done by his own
hands, therefore producing watches that would be the same
(10:40):
model, same name, same brand. They could be exactly the same.
You may view it differently because you'd be like, well, his
hands didn't touch every part ofthe process, but that doesn't
make it a different watch. But it could go from being very
rare to less rare. Yeah, maybe.
But I would say in that case, I think it would still come down
(11:02):
to like serial number and like the the release date of those
early watches that you know, theprocess hasn't changed how?
About FP Jorn, they make it what, less than 1000 watches a
year? That's pretty rare.
And if you then break it down tomodel and color and like actual
reference, then there's not verymany per year they could hire.
(11:25):
Like that's not one person making all those watches.
They could hire train more people over time and decide they
want to make 100,000 watches. They could make that decision
right like they could. I'm not saying they will.
No, I. Don't think so I.
Highly doubt they would, but they could make that decision
and make those watches unrare. What you can't do is like if
(11:48):
they're, if we're talking vintage and there's a rare
vintage watch, like that's always going to be rare.
But for a a a watch that has notbeen discontinued, it could
become less rare over time because they could produce more
of them. However, most businesses would
choose not to do. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
But I'm, I'm just saying a lot of times there's still some way
(12:12):
to identify if it was in the original batch before things
happened. But I'm saying that's one way of
small batch things. That is one way.
It's my way of thinking. Oh, is it?
Is it? Is it now?
OK #3 Expensive watches can be worth the cost.
Cheap watches are not always worth the savings.
(12:33):
Yeah, I mean, things are worth what people are willing to pay
for them. So expensive watches.
I mean we both have spent way too much money on watches for
sure right? Like step one, buy watches.
Step 2 make a podcast. Step three, question all your
life decisions. Everything is worth the cost if
you don't regret it I. Guess right?
(12:54):
That's true. So so the yes, expensive watches
absolutely can be worth the costto the buyer and maybe even to
other people. But like cheap watches, I think
that's where I can't wait till his post comes out about this
one. Yeah to.
Actually understand. Yeah, what he's thinking with
cheap watches. No one is going to be surprised
(13:16):
that Fu was like, I need more context, please.
And I was like, OK, yeah. But it could mean like savings
like you in time and you're likeno.
Well, I, I, I just didn't think that your interpretation was
what he meant. But we're not going to know for
a few days, so. OK, cheap watches to me can mean
many things, right? Like one person's cheap, like
(13:38):
literally one person, they couldpoint at something and say this
is cheap to another person couldjust be affordable and to
another person could actually beexpensive, right?
Because all this stuff is on a scale and we live in a very
inequal world, right? So in general in life though, I
would say like typically when you use the word cheap, you're
not only talking about the price, but sometimes you are,
(14:00):
but sometimes you're not. So like cheap things, this can
cost more in the in the long run.
It can actually literally cost you more in the long run.
And that's what like very cheaply made goods that don't
last long. Like think fast fashion, it's
certain things that are just made, you use them a couple
times or they are disposable or whatever.
They cannot be reused or they cannot be reused many times.
(14:24):
Like it could have just cost a lot less to buy a higher quality
item that lasts way. Longer, but this is where I was
saying worth the savings is likethe now versus later.
I don't know that's what Mark meant, but I like thinking about
it that way too. Look, OK here's what I'm saying
is sometimes people say like Oh my Dreamwatch is X, but I have
(14:47):
decided I'm going to buy these three watches instead.
Or one is kind of similar. Let's say one is kind of
similar, but it's cheaper than. Not a cheap watch, but cheaper
than this says. Cheap watches.
It doesn't say cheaper, but it needs.
To sound like, you know, like have a have a quick ring to it.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
And so. But this I agree with.
(15:08):
You. What I was thinking is that in
those cases, sometimes the cheapwatch not always being worth the
savings, could be that sometimesyou save like time, like, hey, I
want to watch now versus if I need to save for a while, I
could get the watch I really want.
The savings, Yeah. The saving I stand.
(15:29):
By that, OK, fine, we'll see we'll see how that but I, I
actually think with watches it is a little less true about the
cheap ones not being worth the savings because it depends on
what you're looking to get. And the watch watches are one of
those things like that, that unlike let's say clothing, you
don't necessarily eventually youcan wear out almost anything,
(15:53):
right? But like a watch is going to
work. Like you can spend a very small
amount of money on a Casio that will last you ten years before
you even need to change the battery.
Yeah, I actually did think of cheap could also be in terms of
quality, it could be. It could be, but this does say
savings, so I'm thinking it it it has to do with money.
(16:14):
But like you can buy a very cheap watch that will be
durable, have all of the functionality you need and like
a lot of longevity. So but but he does also
specifically say cheap watches are not always worth the same.
Yeah, it's not that cheap watches aren't worth it, Yeah,
but they're not always. I I get.
(16:34):
That they're not always worth the savings of time or money.
I I just. I wanna know what he means.
Like cheap watches. OK, cheap just means so.
Many different things. Number four, OK a perfect
condition watch is priceless until you actually have to wear
it. I love this is my favorite.
One I like. This is the best.
I This is my new mantra, yeah. Well, this is interesting
(16:56):
because you are very much like, I want, you know, pristine,
pristine. You're like, what about new old
stock for? I love new old stock I that's
the only vintage I want is new old stock.
But I agree, this kind of makes you think, oh it's going to be
me, but that wrecks it. But so I think there's a romance
(17:18):
in that as well, right? Like one of the reasons I love
the idea of a new old stock vintage watch is that after it
does finally get beat up and getscratches on it, all of those
are mine, even though it's this old vintage watch from a long
time ago. So what I like about this
statement, though, is a perfect condition watch is priceless
(17:39):
until you actually have to wear it is more about like how you
even approach what you'd be willing to buy, which sometimes
I'm like, that's got a scratch on it.
I don't want it. Yeah, you know, But in reality,
I will do worse than that scratch after a few wears.
That's. True.
So it's like being able to approach watches that are in
(18:01):
great but worn condition. You could almost count that as
like new. Yeah.
Because once you wear it, it will be in great but warm
condition. Yeah, that's very true.
Like how much is that worth to you?
That first getting your own first scratch?
Sometimes the question is how much.
Is that? OK #5 See the watch as a whole,
(18:23):
not just a collection of parts. I think that within the love of
watches that we all have, we canget caught in the details and
that does sometimes make you miss like the whole of the
watch. It's like if one part is kind of
like you Vu, you're very hard onthe Royal Oak because it doesn't
(18:46):
have a micro adjust. It does not.
Sometimes Vu is like what did you waste your money on?
I have never said it that way. I have never said.
Waste. I never have said waste, but I
have said spent you whatever youspent your money on.
You for teasing me and my friendwho have a Royal Oak about the.
Fact that I said pay money get pay more get less.
(19:07):
Yes, see OK, pay more, get less,but I think in that case, and I
know you're you were not saying that it's not worth it.
No, I. Didn't say that at all.
Because worth is in the eye of the beholder and the person
willing to pay it. But it is a point that I do
think sometimes in looking at all the details, I know that
(19:28):
occasionally I can be like, I don't like that watch because of
one detail. I think about the Breitling moon
phase. I don't like the way the moon
phase looks. And that is like, no, but I
could look at the watch as a whole.
It doesn't mean I have to buy it, but it's more to me this is
also like how I appreciate the watch and appreciate the
(19:49):
movement, the details, the time spent and the work someone puts
into it. Yeah.
Yeah. I I agree I OK I find this one
hard to comment on. OK, I don't.
Feel I understand it, yet I don't understand what he's
saying and I don't want to comment on a misunderstanding of
what he's saying. OK, last one for today and we'll
(20:10):
do Part 2 tomorrow. Number six, make your judgments
alone 1st and seek others opinions later.
This is my favorite one he's written so.
Far Yeah, I think this is reallygood advice and I should do
this. This is amazing advice.
Like, OK, I I hear this all the time or I don't hear it.
I read it all the time because people don't say this to your
face. They write it on anonymously on
(20:30):
a forum. Interesting.
They aren't affected by other people's opinions.
They aren't. Affected by ambassadors?
They aren't affected by advertising or marketing.
Or product placement. This is going to sound bad, but
if you're willing to write on a forum, you care what other
people think. Exactly right.
What are you doing on a forum ifyou don't care at all what
(20:51):
anyone thinks, hey? Does anyone want to tell me what
they think about what I Yeah. Exactly right.
Like it's absolutely. Anyway, Anyway, it's just OK.
Yes, we want to think our opinions are our own and they
are just sense. But what does it mean to have an
opinion? It is a culmination not only of
(21:13):
your own, like isolated, completely siloed thoughts about
a thing, but you're the culmination of thoughts that you
have about something based on many, many, many different data
inputs over the course of your life.
So if a new product comes out, Ithink, OK, we're talking about
watches. If a new watch comes out, I
(21:33):
think it's a great idea to really sit with it before you go
and watch reviews and opinions and read what other people
think. Because then you can start to
formulate an opinion based on only what you think about this
and based on your history, as opposed to based on what now
(21:54):
other people are saying. Then you go to try to validate
your own opinions by going and watching reviews.
I actually thought of this even not just as like looking at
reviews and what other people are saying about it, but I
thought like as watch enablers of one another, sometimes I'm
just like, Hey, do you think this is cool?
And you're like, it is cool. And I'm like, I just it's so
(22:16):
cool by now, you know, like there is this excite, there's
this excitement, a mutual like when you love something the way
all of us love watches that thatwe are talking about it this
much that you can get like caught up in the hype of just
like one other person being excited about it for you.
You know that that the it's like, first think about what do
(22:39):
I like? What do I not like?
Do I love this? And then start to take in the
additional opinions, whether it's reviews or whether it's
just like your your close friendgroup, because many times it's
like do it, do it, do it. Yeah.
And I I also I. Definitely felt.
Myself before liking a watch andnot seeking the opinions of
(22:59):
others yet because I know that they won't like it and I'm not
ready for my life thinking of itto be challenged yet.
Yes, that's definitely how I felt about the Creedor
locomotive, because I really liked it, but it also bothered
me when I saw it. Like I liked it because it it
bothered me a little. There's something about it that
(23:22):
I like. When you did start to talk to
other people about you wanting one that some people would be
like, no I. Know yeah it's weird but I then
I was like but I had formed my opinion yeah that the weirdness
is what I like about yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Then felt OK when people were like, hey, it's pretty weird.
(23:44):
And I'm like, yeah. OK, cool.
I'm good with that. Because that's.
What I thought OK. This was the 1st 6.
Yes, first six so. Far amazing.
Yeah, so far, amazing. Great job Mark and I.
I I need some clarification but but really good job.
But I would love to know from all of you listening, which one
of these really resonates with you in your watch collecting
(24:07):
journey? Or do you, are you just going to
add some of your own? You can make your own 12.
Point. I guess yes, we all can.
Bye everyone.
Welcome to this Watch LIVE. Hi, I'm Lydia Winters.
And I'm Boo booey. OK, I love learning about how,
like, other people's collecting philosophy.
So I was extra excited when someone that I admire and think
is awesome, Mark Cho, founder ofthe Armory, all around nice,
(00:29):
humble guy. I got to meet him in New York.
I already, like, did a whole fanepisode about my New York trip
and seeing all these cool watch people.
He's also a prolific collector. And he posted of watches.
Yeah, probably. And also menswear.
Yeah, I mean, menswear most. People who collect watches I, I
I you. Collect other stuff too.
(00:50):
Yes. But he published 12 principles
of watch collecting, and he saidhe summarizes his thoughts on
watch collecting into 12 points.And we're going to do this as
two parts because he did 12. And we, we must talk more.
I I didn't have faith. So, you know, we have our little
(01:12):
intro bid. It takes a couple minutes.
So then what? We're going to talk for one
minute each? No, that's not.
Speed Round podcast, We're goingto do the first six and just
discuss what we think about them.
I do think it's funny that we'vechosen to do a daily 20 minute
podcast. But we always want to talk more.
Always want to talk more than 20minutes?
(01:34):
Well, OK, it either has to be daily or it has to be one really
long podcast. It's five hours.
Here we go. OK #1 Rare watches are not
always great. Great watches are not always
rare. This sounds like wisdom.
It does. I like it.
Has the vibe of wisdom and. Those are written in a wisdom
(01:55):
and shareable way, which I appreciate.
No. I like I love these.
This one I think is a great #1 because I feel like it's also
the most easy thing to agree with as well.
And you, you can understand the concept very quickly.
Like I think about because, OK, there's always the, the thought
(02:17):
of like finding that rare gem somewhere, but it's because
there's actually tons of rare watches out there.
You can find them quite easily. I have been to like little flea
markets or vintage stores and there's a bin of watches and
I've never heard of those brandsand everything.
(02:38):
And they're probably quite rare because they're from the distant
past and because they weren't valuable, right?
Like a lot of things become rarebecause no one values them, so
no one keeps them. So they just kind of as they
break or whatever, you don't maintain things that you don't
value and therefore they become more and more rare because no
one kept them. Well, sometimes.
(02:59):
And it's rare for rare's sake versus for a specific reason,
which I think is a good reminderbecause sometimes I do want
something that's rare. Just because it's rare?
Yeah. Yeah, like I'm not above it, but
I think it's also good to remember because in those
moments where I am like, oh, I want something rare or hard to
get, not all great watches are those things.
(03:22):
So there are so many great watches that are easier to get
that are not rare, but they're incredible.
The watch that Mark posted aboutfor this specific one, he's
going to go through all of the numbers on his Instagram and
give like a little more. Detail each one of his points,
yeah. Through each one.
One post. Per point, yeah.
So we're going to make our opinions of his points based on
(03:44):
the one sentence, not the full. Exactly the full explanation.
But he actually had a picture ofthe King Seiko that you bought.
Yes, which is again, that's a great example of a wonderful
watch that is not rare. And also the first time I saw
that watch was on Alex who worksat the Armory and he said how
much Mark loves that watch too, which is true.
(04:07):
Well, OK, so you know, and at a different price point like my
Rolex GMT Master two Pepsi, I think is a truly great watch.
And even though people kind of feel it might be rare because it
sells for over retail. Hard to get in rare or not the.
Same. Yeah, exactly it is not rare.
(04:29):
I checked. There's right now 1000 of them
on Chrono 24. The current model.
Like that's a lot, right? So it is not a rare watch,
right, but it's a great watch. So yeah, this is this one's
pretty pretty, pretty easy to agree with.
Number one, we're starting. We're starting in the.
(04:50):
Yeah, when I think about my creator locomotive, which I'll
get now, it's coming up pretty soon, end of September, early
October. I wonder how much.
Like, no, no, no, I'm very excited.
I love it, but I still haven't seen it.
So I had to make my decision based on the rare.
Well, in the sense of like, if Ididn't, yeah.
(05:12):
Like if I didn't say I want it, then you can't get it.
I'm never gonna get it later. Yeah, you have to buy this one
sight unseen if you want it new.Yeah, so I think some watches
they they push you or brand. No one pushed, No.
No, no, not push you, but you have to make the decision faster
because of the rarity. Because of the rarity, not
(05:34):
because of only the greatness ofit.
It's a dual. Quite a few watches are like any
of the watches where like CoronaTokyo writes Ming.
Watches are all amazing. Watches.
I'm just saying that sometimes the rarity or the limitedness or
the, you know, yeah, the limited.
Version that. That's what drives.
(05:56):
It can, it can or no? It can accelerate it.
You have to make the decision quicker.
You don't have the time. Find out if you like that look.
OK, I. Really hope no I.
Do I do I'm going to I'm very excited about it, but I still
never got have gotten to see it or try it on which those are
some of my rules of not things I'm not.
Supposed. To do OK #2 Unpopular watches
(06:20):
may become popular, but rare watches will always remain rare.
I, I, I get where this is going.Like the first thing that comes
to mind is the old tales of the Daytona and back in the day, you
know, back in my day, they couldn't give these things away.
Like Daytona's were pretty much paperweights.
(06:43):
And they give them to you for free at the AD when you buy a
nicer watch, right? Like the literally.
Have heard these stories, great reference.
In, in, in, told in serious ways.
How much truth there is to that,I don't know.
I wasn't there. No, but yes.
But now, obviously. The daytime unpopular watch may
(07:04):
become popular. OK, so we agree with the first
part. But also like lots of watches
that are unpopular become popular.
Yeah, I mean, we've been talkingabout the Geezer watch.
Those are watches that. We really got schooled by Darren
on Geezerness. Yes, exactly.
But the those watches are some of the watches that haven't been
(07:29):
very popular for a long time. And I think, I mean, if we look
at the the F1, the tag Hoyer F1 watches, it's like those came
into a very big fashion, not just from the re release, but
from, you know, people started getting excited.
Then they did the collaboration.Now they're very popular.
Will they go back to being kind of, you know, just mildly
(07:52):
popular? Probably.
Or not. Who knows, Like reissues is a
huge way that things become popular again.
Like the Vesher on 222 that you had wanted to purchase and you
were like, look, there's there'squite a few out there, you said.
This to me my biggest mistake. There's quite a few out there.
(08:12):
They're fairly affordable. I'll get one eventually and then
they do the reissue. Yes.
And then all of a sudden they'reso popular that the vintage one
surge in price or. Any brand does a teaser and I
really wanted the the the vintage version version of it.
I'm just gonna like, buy. It right then because yeah, I
made such. A huge mistake.
(08:33):
Before the prices move big, celebrities also move prices,
prices the how popular somethingis.
Like, you know, the stories of Sylvester Stallone and Panarai,
You know, what's the true story there?
We'll never know. But but a little bit more easy
to verify 'cause we kind of it happened during this digital age
(08:56):
is like John Mayer and Ed Sheeran talking about Kikuchi
Nakagawa and those watches now becoming so unobtainable that
they just had to stop taking orders, right?
Like so lots. I'm not saying they were
unpopular, but they definitely are much more popular.
So they were unpopular before incomparison to now.
(09:17):
But those are also already rare and then will remain rare.
So that's kind of interesting. So here's OK, here's.
OK, OK. I, I agree that typically
something that's rare will remain rare because, and this is
the big thing, because it's goodbusiness, right?
(09:38):
So most people will make the decisions to keep rare things
rare, like most business minds would do that because it's, it's
probably going to be good for their business.
But just as a thought example, right, you have Hajime Asayoka,
right? Those watches that he makes,
(09:59):
Hajimea Sayoka watches, not the Corona.
Watches, they're amazing. I got to see one in person and I
was like, don't breathe on it so.
I, I, I like that was amazing. We got to see that one in Geneva
in 2020. He reportedly made 7 watches.
OK, four tsunamis, 2 turbines and one chronograph.
(10:20):
So that's rare. Those are rare watches when
we're talking about, you know, just the watch world.
He could decide to change how heproduces watches and have other
people do more parts of the process and less done by his own
hands, therefore producing watches that would be the same
(10:40):
model, same name, same brand. They could be exactly the same.
You may view it differently because you'd be like, well, his
hands didn't touch every part ofthe process, but that doesn't
make it a different watch. But it could go from being very
rare to less rare. Yeah, maybe.
But I would say in that case, I think it would still come down
(11:02):
to like serial number and like the the release date of those
early watches that you know, theprocess hasn't changed how?
About FP Jorn, they make it what, less than 1000 watches a
year? That's pretty rare.
And if you then break it down tomodel and color and like actual
reference, then there's not verymany per year they could hire.
(11:25):
Like that's not one person making all those watches.
They could hire train more people over time and decide they
want to make 100,000 watches. They could make that decision
right like they could. I'm not saying they will.
No, I. Don't think so I.
Highly doubt they would, but they could make that decision
and make those watches unrare. What you can't do is like if
(11:48):
they're, if we're talking vintage and there's a rare
vintage watch, like that's always going to be rare.
But for a a a watch that has notbeen discontinued, it could
become less rare over time because they could produce more
of them. However, most businesses would
choose not to do. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
But I'm, I'm just saying a lot of times there's still some way
(12:12):
to identify if it was in the original batch before things
happened. But I'm saying that's one way of
small batch things. That is one way.
It's my way of thinking. Oh, is it?
Is it? Is it now?
OK #3 Expensive watches can be worth the cost.
Cheap watches are not always worth the savings.
(12:33):
Yeah, I mean, things are worth what people are willing to pay
for them. So expensive watches.
I mean we both have spent way too much money on watches for
sure right? Like step one, buy watches.
Step 2 make a podcast. Step three, question all your
life decisions. Everything is worth the cost if
you don't regret it I. Guess right?
(12:54):
That's true. So so the yes, expensive watches
absolutely can be worth the costto the buyer and maybe even to
other people. But like cheap watches, I think
that's where I can't wait till his post comes out about this
one. Yeah to.
Actually understand. Yeah, what he's thinking with
cheap watches. No one is going to be surprised
(13:16):
that Fu was like, I need more context, please.
And I was like, OK, yeah. But it could mean like savings
like you in time and you're likeno.
Well, I, I, I just didn't think that your interpretation was
what he meant. But we're not going to know for
a few days, so. OK, cheap watches to me can mean
many things, right? Like one person's cheap, like
(13:38):
literally one person, they couldpoint at something and say this
is cheap to another person couldjust be affordable and to
another person could actually beexpensive, right?
Because all this stuff is on a scale and we live in a very
inequal world, right? So in general in life though, I
would say like typically when you use the word cheap, you're
not only talking about the price, but sometimes you are,
(14:00):
but sometimes you're not. So like cheap things, this can
cost more in the in the long run.
It can actually literally cost you more in the long run.
And that's what like very cheaply made goods that don't
last long. Like think fast fashion, it's
certain things that are just made, you use them a couple
times or they are disposable or whatever.
They cannot be reused or they cannot be reused many times.
(14:24):
Like it could have just cost a lot less to buy a higher quality
item that lasts way. Longer, but this is where I was
saying worth the savings is likethe now versus later.
I don't know that's what Mark meant, but I like thinking about
it that way too. Look, OK here's what I'm saying
is sometimes people say like Oh my Dreamwatch is X, but I have
(14:47):
decided I'm going to buy these three watches instead.
Or one is kind of similar. Let's say one is kind of
similar, but it's cheaper than. Not a cheap watch, but cheaper
than this says. Cheap watches.
It doesn't say cheaper, but it needs.
To sound like, you know, like have a have a quick ring to it.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
And so. But this I agree with.
(15:08):
You. What I was thinking is that in
those cases, sometimes the cheapwatch not always being worth the
savings, could be that sometimesyou save like time, like, hey, I
want to watch now versus if I need to save for a while, I
could get the watch I really want.
The savings, Yeah. The saving I stand.
(15:29):
By that, OK, fine, we'll see we'll see how that but I, I
actually think with watches it is a little less true about the
cheap ones not being worth the savings because it depends on
what you're looking to get. And the watch watches are one of
those things like that, that unlike let's say clothing, you
don't necessarily eventually youcan wear out almost anything,
(15:53):
right? But like a watch is going to
work. Like you can spend a very small
amount of money on a Casio that will last you ten years before
you even need to change the battery.
Yeah, I actually did think of cheap could also be in terms of
quality, it could be. It could be, but this does say
savings, so I'm thinking it it it has to do with money.
(16:14):
But like you can buy a very cheap watch that will be
durable, have all of the functionality you need and like
a lot of longevity. So but but he does also
specifically say cheap watches are not always worth the same.
Yeah, it's not that cheap watches aren't worth it, Yeah,
but they're not always. I I get.
(16:34):
That they're not always worth the savings of time or money.
I I just. I wanna know what he means.
Like cheap watches. OK, cheap just means so.
Many different things. Number four, OK a perfect
condition watch is priceless until you actually have to wear
it. I love this is my favorite.
One I like. This is the best.
I This is my new mantra, yeah. Well, this is interesting
(16:56):
because you are very much like, I want, you know, pristine,
pristine. You're like, what about new old
stock for? I love new old stock I that's
the only vintage I want is new old stock.
But I agree, this kind of makes you think, oh it's going to be
me, but that wrecks it. But so I think there's a romance
(17:18):
in that as well, right? Like one of the reasons I love
the idea of a new old stock vintage watch is that after it
does finally get beat up and getscratches on it, all of those
are mine, even though it's this old vintage watch from a long
time ago. So what I like about this
statement, though, is a perfect condition watch is priceless
(17:39):
until you actually have to wear it is more about like how you
even approach what you'd be willing to buy, which sometimes
I'm like, that's got a scratch on it.
I don't want it. Yeah, you know, But in reality,
I will do worse than that scratch after a few wears.
That's. True.
So it's like being able to approach watches that are in
(18:01):
great but worn condition. You could almost count that as
like new. Yeah.
Because once you wear it, it will be in great but warm
condition. Yeah, that's very true.
Like how much is that worth to you?
That first getting your own first scratch?
Sometimes the question is how much.
Is that? OK #5 See the watch as a whole,
(18:23):
not just a collection of parts. I think that within the love of
watches that we all have, we canget caught in the details and
that does sometimes make you miss like the whole of the
watch. It's like if one part is kind of
like you Vu, you're very hard onthe Royal Oak because it doesn't
(18:46):
have a micro adjust. It does not.
Sometimes Vu is like what did you waste your money on?
I have never said it that way. I have never said.
Waste. I never have said waste, but I
have said spent you whatever youspent your money on.
You for teasing me and my friendwho have a Royal Oak about the.
Fact that I said pay money get pay more get less.
(19:07):
Yes, see OK, pay more, get less,but I think in that case, and I
know you're you were not saying that it's not worth it.
No, I. Didn't say that at all.
Because worth is in the eye of the beholder and the person
willing to pay it. But it is a point that I do
think sometimes in looking at all the details, I know that
(19:28):
occasionally I can be like, I don't like that watch because of
one detail. I think about the Breitling moon
phase. I don't like the way the moon
phase looks. And that is like, no, but I
could look at the watch as a whole.
It doesn't mean I have to buy it, but it's more to me this is
also like how I appreciate the watch and appreciate the
(19:49):
movement, the details, the time spent and the work someone puts
into it. Yeah.
Yeah. I I agree I OK I find this one
hard to comment on. OK, I don't.
Feel I understand it, yet I don't understand what he's
saying and I don't want to comment on a misunderstanding of
what he's saying. OK, last one for today and we'll
(20:10):
do Part 2 tomorrow. Number six, make your judgments
alone 1st and seek others opinions later.
This is my favorite one he's written so.
Far Yeah, I think this is reallygood advice and I should do
this. This is amazing advice.
Like, OK, I I hear this all the time or I don't hear it.
I read it all the time because people don't say this to your
face. They write it on anonymously on
(20:30):
a forum. Interesting.
They aren't affected by other people's opinions.
They aren't. Affected by ambassadors?
They aren't affected by advertising or marketing.
Or product placement. This is going to sound bad, but
if you're willing to write on a forum, you care what other
people think. Exactly right.
What are you doing on a forum ifyou don't care at all what
(20:51):
anyone thinks, hey? Does anyone want to tell me what
they think about what I Yeah. Exactly right.
Like it's absolutely. Anyway, Anyway, it's just OK.
Yes, we want to think our opinions are our own and they
are just sense. But what does it mean to have an
opinion? It is a culmination not only of
(21:13):
your own, like isolated, completely siloed thoughts about
a thing, but you're the culmination of thoughts that you
have about something based on many, many, many different data
inputs over the course of your life.
So if a new product comes out, Ithink, OK, we're talking about
watches. If a new watch comes out, I
(21:33):
think it's a great idea to really sit with it before you go
and watch reviews and opinions and read what other people
think. Because then you can start to
formulate an opinion based on only what you think about this
and based on your history, as opposed to based on what now
(21:54):
other people are saying. Then you go to try to validate
your own opinions by going and watching reviews.
I actually thought of this even not just as like looking at
reviews and what other people are saying about it, but I
thought like as watch enablers of one another, sometimes I'm
just like, Hey, do you think this is cool?
And you're like, it is cool. And I'm like, I just it's so
(22:16):
cool by now, you know, like there is this excite, there's
this excitement, a mutual like when you love something the way
all of us love watches that thatwe are talking about it this
much that you can get like caught up in the hype of just
like one other person being excited about it for you.
You know that that the it's like, first think about what do
(22:39):
I like? What do I not like?
Do I love this? And then start to take in the
additional opinions, whether it's reviews or whether it's
just like your your close friendgroup, because many times it's
like do it, do it, do it. Yeah.
And I I also I. Definitely felt.
Myself before liking a watch andnot seeking the opinions of
(22:59):
others yet because I know that they won't like it and I'm not
ready for my life thinking of itto be challenged yet.
Yes, that's definitely how I felt about the Creedor
locomotive, because I really liked it, but it also bothered
me when I saw it. Like I liked it because it it
bothered me a little. There's something about it that
(23:22):
I like. When you did start to talk to
other people about you wanting one that some people would be
like, no I. Know yeah it's weird but I then
I was like but I had formed my opinion yeah that the weirdness
is what I like about yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Then felt OK when people were like, hey, it's pretty weird.
(23:44):
And I'm like, yeah. OK, cool.
I'm good with that. Because that's.
What I thought OK. This was the 1st 6.
Yes, first six so. Far amazing.
Yeah, so far, amazing. Great job Mark and I.
I I need some clarification but but really good job.
But I would love to know from all of you listening, which one
of these really resonates with you in your watch collecting
(24:07):
journey? Or do you, are you just going to
add some of your own? You can make your own 12.
Point. I guess yes, we all can.
Bye everyone.
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