January 8, 2026 • 33 mins
On Today's Show: Prager discusses the moral implications of celebrating the death of Osama bin Laden. He shares reactions from various religious leaders, including a pastor who thinks celebrating bin Laden's death is morally equivalent to celebrating the 9/11 attacks, and a rabbi who believes it's wrong to rejoice at the death of anyone.
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Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Here thousands of
hours of Dennis's lectures courses in classic radio programs. Had
to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, go to Dennisprager dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I want to talk to you about an event that
took place, but it's already now history, even though it
was three weeks ago.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
And you know, we move on in life.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
The news cycle is such that it's both a blessing
and a curse. All blessings or also curses. And the
amount of news that we take in is partially a
curse in that the big issues are forgotten so rapidly.
Bin Laden was killed just three weeks ago, and I
(01:16):
want to talk to you about reactions to the celebrates
that took place in the United States of America as
a result of the killing of bin Laden, how rabbis, priests, ministers,
and others have reacted, and how, in my opinion, the
world is truly morally upside down. I daily pinch myself
(01:43):
if I guess I have to put it this way.
If my views are on these matters are accurate, we're
in bad shape. And if they're not accurate, we're in
bad shape because there are the dominant ideas today are
so morally odd and different from the past. And I
(02:07):
am specifically referring, and I will review examples from Christianity
and Judaism. The number of rabbis and Christian clergy who
are angry at people who celebrated the killing of Osama
bin Laden. I would say the bulk of Christian and
(02:29):
Jewish clergy are opposed to celebrating the death of bin Laden.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
And I will.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Give you examples in all of these cases. Here is
a pastor, Brian McLaren. Time magazine named him one of
the twenty five most influential evangelicals in America a few
years ago. Reacting to television images of young Americans chanting
Usa USA the night bin Laden's death was announced, the
(03:00):
pastor wrote, quote, I can only say that this image
does not reflect well on my country. Joyfully celebrating the
killing of a killer who joyfully celebrated killing carries an
irony that I hope will not be lost on us.
Get So, those who celebrate bin Laden's death are morally
(03:26):
equivalent to the people who celebrated nine to eleven. Get it,
they celebrated death, and they celebrated death.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And there you go.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And I'm a pastor and I'm one of the twenty
five most influential according to time. Are we learning anything
or simply spinning harder in the cycle of violence? Now
a word on the words on the phrase cycle of violence.
There are a few phrases that in the course of
my lifetime. As soon as I see I know the
(04:00):
person doesn't think clearly. Cycle of violence is a giveaway.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
It is life. Forgive me if this is on your car.
I never mean to be insulting.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
And I'm not insulting these I know that people I
differ with have wonderful intentions, and I never attack their motives.
But it is like the bumper sticker, what is it?
The one not tolerance? What's the word again? With all
the symbols of the religions, co exist? Okay, it's the
(04:38):
message coexists needs to be on a bumper sticker in
Saudi Arabia, not the United States. This is the land
of coexistence. Religions get along great in the United States.
It's a useless bumper sticker in America. The places where
you need to put it up, you would be killed
if you put it up. The place where you don't
(05:00):
need to put it up. It is meaningless. So to
cycle of violence. World War two was a cycle of violence,
right the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor and then we bombed
the Japanese. Why wasn't that just a cycle of violence?
Cycle of violence means that all violence is morally equivalent.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
But that's that's what I.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Mean by the decline of clarity and moral thinking in
our time. Not all violence is morally equal. Some violence
is moral, some violence is immoral. We are so anti violence,
we should be anti evil. This is the message that
I want to bring to you today. Judaism is anti evil,
(05:43):
not anti violence. There isn't a shred of pacifism in Judaism,
not a shred. Pacifism has no place in Judaism, never
did until the until the era we live in. Now
there are pacifist rabbis. This is brand new and Jewish history.
The idea that it is always wrong to kill is
(06:06):
a brand new idea, and it is not It is
not one that is found anywhere in Judaism nowhere. Okay,
I'm gonna I promise I'll deal with that. And if
I don't, just raise your hand in But it's on
my list.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.
Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So number one, what this pastor says, The entire thing
the pastor says is upside down morally, and so he was.
Again the image does not reflect well on my country.
Joyfully celebrating the killing of a killer who joyfully celebrated
killing carries an irony that I hope will not be
(06:58):
lost on us. So you get it. Bin Lodden celebrated
nine to eleven, we celebrate his death. We're all the same.
Isn't that ironic? I don't see any irony here. I
see moral clarity on the part of those who know
what the difference between good and evil is. Nine to
eleven is not the same as killing o'salombin lad and
(07:18):
then again the cycle.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Of violence nonsense.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Next, CNN reported the reaction of an episcopal priest, a
woman Danielle to Mineo, whose Long Island neighborhood lost scores
of people in the nine to eleven attacks. So they
went to her because so many people were killed in
her neighborhood nine to eleven, including church members. Quote from
CNN when she saw images of Americans celebrating. My first
(07:45):
reaction was I wish I was with them. My second
reaction was, this is disgusting. We shouldn't be celebrating the death.
Excuse me, we shouldn't be celebrating the death of anybody.
It felt gross. We shouldn't be celebrating the death of anybody.
Had Hitler died in nineteen forty one, do you know
(08:07):
how many people would still have lived. What kind of
moral brain is it that would say you can't celebrate
the death of anyone. I'm telling you you don't know
how morally confused this generation is.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
And I don't know if it could be undone.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I don't know. It takes eons to build moral clarity
and it takes one generation to undo it all. Now
give you a rabbi. This is one of many rabbis,
by the way, this is just an example. This is
a rabbi, the senior Rabbi Temple Emmanuel Denver, Colorado, Rabbi
(08:48):
Joe black And in his blog and it was carried
on Facebook, so it's easily found. Reflections on the death
of Bin Laden on Yom Hushoa. He was killed on
Yom hush Shoa. By the way, last night, like most
of us, my family and I were transfixed by the
(09:09):
scenes playing out on our TV screens. The celebrations that
were taking place outside of the White House, at Times Square,
at Ground Zero, and throughout the world following confirmation by
President Obama Thatsma bin Laden had.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Been killed were spellbinding.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
It was as if a cloud had been lifted from
our national consciousness. The jubilationian and spontaneous demonstrations of national
pride that these mostly young revelers were displaying was both
wonderful and disconcerting. Chance of USA USA filled the air
and reporters who were interviewing survivors of the nine to
eleven rescue operations that are indelibly linked in our consciousness.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Consciousness.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
At last, we had some positive news in the war
on terror. American commandos had broken through the seemingly impenetrable
wall of invincibility that al Qaida had created. The mass
murderer of thousands had finally been eliminated. And yet, waking
up this morning, however, I don't feel too much like celebrating.
(10:10):
Bin Laden died a violent death. He deserved to die.
But while I am relieved that bin Laden no longer
poses a threat. I have no illusions that his death
will put an end to terror. On the contrary, most
of us are bracing ourselves for the inevitable reaction of
al Qaeda and the myriad of terrorist offshoots that it
has fallen. Now, just let me comment on that. Though
(10:33):
this is not the subject. My subject is the moral issue.
Nobody claimed that it's the end of terror killing Osama
bin lad so's he's he's making a claim that that
doesn't matter. Nobody says that ends terror. It's just a
good thing that he died. It's better than not. And
(10:54):
every expert that I have read says it is a
real blow to al Qaeda, that symbolically his death is
a major thing. All right, So I don't know he's
arguing with a straw man, but all right. In addition,
and here comes the moral issue. The image of celebrating
(11:14):
the death of another human being, no matter how evil
he may have been, doesn't fit image of the highest
ideals for which we as a nation stand.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
They we're not.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
We're not supposed to celebrate the death of any other person.
I remember the Los Angeles Police Department shot a man
who was who was about to rape a woman and
kidnapped the woman, rape her, and and and by all.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
The indications, was going to kill her.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
With a gun after he raped her, and they killed
him in time.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I was thrilled.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I mean, and and did I go outside and party. No,
But that's only because that's not my style. But the
world is a better place because that guy got shot
before he did.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
That to that woman.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I this is a type of thinking that I don't understand.
It's it's new, But where does this idea? You never
celebrate the death of another human company? Now, I'll be
with all the sources. He for example, says his next
sentence in the Book of Proverbs, we find the following,
do not rejoice when your enemy falls, and let not
(12:31):
your heart be glad when he stumbles. Then he writes,
It's another thing I'm never a big fan of. But
it's okay, my son Ethan. When people quote their young kids.
You know, most people have young kids who say cute things,
but we don't necessarily write them in our blogs. But okay,
my son Ethan beautifully captured his duality of feeling in
(12:56):
his Facebook when he wrote, regardless of how despicable or
evil an individual might be, we as Americans, never celebrate
the death of another. Where did he get this from?
Where did Ethan his son get it? The answers he
got it from his father, exactly right. But he didn't
get it from American history. We instead celebrate the end
(13:20):
to an era of fear and terror. But it's not over.
The father just said it's not over. We're gonna have
more terror than ever. I guess he didn't get that
part from his dad. We celebrate the individuals who keep
us safe from those who want to harm us. Most importantly,
we celebrate the universal ideals of freedom and justice. Okay,
(13:40):
I celebrate the ideal of killing evil people.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I'm a big fan of that.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I just want to go on record as saying that
this morning, the world is a different place. This is
the Rabbi now his final paragraph. This morning, the world
is a different place than it was last night. Not
because a terrorist has been killed, but rather, now listen
to this. This is unbelievable. I don't this, I truly
don't understand. So why is the world different from last night?
(14:08):
Not because the leading terrorist on earth was killed, nope,
but rather because we have been given an opportunity to heal,
to heal from what I don't an opportunity to heal
one man's death. However, Justified will not bring back the
(14:28):
thousands upon thousands who have died due to hatred. See
due to hatred. It's like it's due to his hatred.
He didn't say that. Notice that he's anti hatred. I'm
not anti hatred. I think I've told you that Berkeley,
the city of Berkeley, many years ago, passed a resolution
that Berkeley is a hate free zone, and I immediately
(14:51):
announced on the radio, I will never be allowed.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
To visit Berkeley. I do hate, and.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I'm commanded by my religion to it. Ojavea do na
si murdad. Those of you who love God must hate evil.
It's set every Shabbata kabalahabad from the psalms. But they're
against hatred. This embodied from morality. This is the what
I'm worried about. We don't think morally. Now think with feelings.
(15:22):
I hate hatred. I don't hate hatred. I hate evil.
There's a very big difference. The Rabbis were geniuses in
this matter. Why was the temple destroyed and why did
we have a sort of Holocaust. The number of Jews
killed was was unbelievable in the first and second destructions
(15:43):
of the Temple and the Jewish state. What did the
rabbis say was the reason we were killed? Nearly all
of you notice because of sinatinam They were brilliant. Sinattinam
means gratuitous hatred, baseless hatred. They never said because of Sinah.
It wasn't because of Jews hating. It was because of
(16:07):
Jews hating for no good reason. There's a huge difference
between hating for no good reason and hating for good reason.
Your damn well should hate for good reason. Then if
you really want to get depressed, you read the comments
on the rabbi's blog. I couldn't agree more. I found
(16:28):
the celebration, the wild, the celebrations of the death very disconcerting.
Thank you you articulated well my feelings this day, so
well said. Thank you for clearing up the mixed emotions.
I was feeling well done, beautiful, Thank you Rabbi, and
so on. Now let me deal with all the verses
(16:49):
in the Talmud and in the Bible on this issue,
and then I will explain to you what they mean
and why they are misunderstood.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
So first is the sun. See, oh good, that's great.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
First, here you have the tumutc statement, and all of
you know these statements. By the way, when the Egyptians
were drowning in the sea of reeds, the angels wanted
to sing, but God said to them, the work of
my hands is drowning in the sea, and you want
to sing. All of the rabbis who are anti celebrating
(17:25):
bin Laden's death, bring this verse. I have heard this
verse sighted since I was in Yeshiva. It's very important, however,
to understand whom God addressed. God addressed the angels, not people.
Angels have different criteria for how they should behave. And then,
(17:46):
first of all, it's all allegorical. Okay, it's all allegorical.
The rabbis made up a beautiful little story. And I
understand that God isn't going to go jubilant over the
entire Egyptian army drowning in the sea. God is the
father of all creatures. And even if your child is rotten,
you're still sad that your child dies.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
But I'm not said your child dies.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
If you're a mister bin Laden sor there's a big
difference between being God.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Or an angel and being a person.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
God never rebuked the Jews for singing, and as you
brought up, and indeed, as I point out in my
the article I wrote on this, which is in you
want to see in the Jewish Journal this week, uh
the uh Oziah Mocheb. I'm going to say, Rahazolt, what
(18:36):
did what did Moses and Israel do after the Egyptians drowned?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
They sang a song? Did God rebuke them?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Is there a hint a hint of God being dissatisfied
with this song? Moses was wrong, but Rabbi so and
so a temple Emmanuel is right.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I'll take Moses personally.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Do you you know we are living in an age
of non Judaism Jews. It's the worst age we've ever
lived in. I can live with non Jewish Jews. The
non Jewish Jew is the person who completely is alienated
from Jewish identity. Secular or religious. Respect that person. It's
a free world. You can identify with what you want.
(19:24):
You want to be a Buddhist, you want to be
an atheist, that's your business. I respect that. I respect
Jews to the right of me. I respect Jews to
the left of me. I. The only Jew I don't
respect is the Jew who turns Judaism upside that who
says this is what a Jew should act like when
there is no basis for it. In Judaism, we sang,
(19:48):
God did not rebuke. And if you read the whole thing,
do not come out. God is a God is a
man of war.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Just read it. It's the most famous.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
I mean, I know it by heart because we said
it every day and yeshiv and to this day, Jews
who pray every day say it every day. It's in
the shock service Oz yes here Mochem said this.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
And then when.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
They got to the other side and the Egyptians drowned,
Moses and the children of Israel sang the following.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
So this episode of timeless wisdom, I'll continue right after this.
Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
So this citation, Ah, they're my children angels, you shouldn't sing. Fine,
any of you who are angels don't sing. However, if
you're human, you have a perfect right to sing at
the death of the truly evil. Next, the Biblical Book
of Proverbs, when your enemy falls, do not rejoice. And
(20:53):
when he stumbles. Let your heart not exult. Okay, let
me explain something about the word enemy. Christians and Jews
get this wrong. And by the way, I was really
delighted to see that the explanation I am about to
give you for the word enemy is exactly what Adingsteinsaltz,
(21:14):
one of the most revered Jewish scholars living today, gives
as well. You could check it on the internet. It
is almost word for word what I wrote in my
article and what I am about to tell you, and
what I have said to Christians in particular. And I feel,
and I always say on the radiocle certain amount of
huts for telling Christians what Jesus said, because they get
(21:36):
it wrong. But nevertheless, I was endowed with kutzbla at
birth and I use it. But for example, he says
love your enemy, right, and so therefore Christians say, we
have to love communists, we have to love Nazis, we
have to love racists, we have to love bin Laden.
(21:57):
That is not it, and it is not what Proverbs
said when your enemy falls, do not rejoice. We're talking,
as Jesus was in his case, with turn the other
cheek and love your enemy with you as an individual
and the people you are antagonistic to in your life.
That is perfectly accurate. Most people have enemies in the
(22:20):
core of their life. In business, they had a terrible
falling out God forbid, and a divorce. Somebody becomes an enemy,
whatever it might be, whatever the situation, that you don't
celebrate their demands, that's correct, But that is not the
(22:40):
same as the objectively evil. Osama bin Laden was not
my enemy. I never met the man. He never personally
hurt me at all. He had no real role in
my life. My personal enemies and I haven't had many,
thank God, But my personal enemies have had a much
(23:01):
bigger role in my daily life than Osama bin Laden did.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Osama bin Laden was not my enemy. Bin Laden was
an evil man.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
It doesn't say do not rejoice at the fall of evil.
It has the opposite. That's the point.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Here. Let me give it to you.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, the Talmud, when the wicked perish from the world,
good comes to the world. Proverbs, when the wicked perish,
there is joyful song. The Proverbs and the Talmud distinguish
between enemy and evil.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Get it. Your personal enemy is not the evil.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
That's your issue, and you shouldn't act toward that person
as if that person is Osama bin loved. Now if
your person let them is Issam bin Laden, that's a
separate issue. Is this clear the distinction between enemy and evil.
You do celebrate the fall of evil, the death of
evil people. You don't celebrate the fall of a person
(24:12):
that you are antagonistic to in your life. That's a
big difference, and that's a great lesson. And the words
of Proverbs are clear as a bell. We celebrate the
fall of evil. We don't celebrate when our enemy falls.
That's the difference. Let me summarize here. There's a British
(24:38):
historian named Andrew Roberts. He's just come out with a
history of World War Two. I like this man because
moral passion. He wrote in the Wall Street Journal to
follow him. Remember he's a British historian. My countryman's reactions
to the death of Osama bin Laden. That means my
fellow Brits have made me doubt my pride in being British.
(25:03):
The foul outpouring of smearing, anti Americanism, legalistic quibbling.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
You know what the legalistic quibbling is about? Right? Was
it right to kill him?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
He may not have been armed at that moment, and
concerned for the supposed human rights of our a modern
Hitler have left me squirming in embarrassment and apology before
my American friends. Britain's utterly refuse to obey the natural
instincts of the freeborn to celebrate the death of a tyrant.
(25:40):
When the Mets Phillies baseball game erupted into cheers on
hearing the wonderful news, or the crowds chanted Usa Usa
outside the White House, they were manifesting the finest emotional
responses of a great people.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
And now I will end with this.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
For every rabbi who says we shouldn't cheer the death
of anyone, I want you to confront this person with
a man named Ari Hassenberg. This was cited in Saul
Friedlander's History of the Holocaust. I know of it because
(26:24):
it was cited in the book that I am reading
on the History of World War II by Andrew Robins Okay.
Ari Hassenberg was the Prince was a prisoner at Auschwitz Burganel,
as quoted by Holocaust historian Saul Friedlander, after one of
the Auschwitz sub camps, Manavitz was bombed by the Allies.
(26:49):
Hassenberg's reaction was quote to see a killed German, that
was why we enjoyed the bombing. Is Hassenberg Unjewish in
his reaction? Immoral in his reaction? According to virtually every
rabbi cited on this issue, he would be he would
(27:11):
have to.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Be considered.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
That his reaction would have to be considered Unjewish. He
shouldn't have been happy that ss Guard were killed in
the bombing of one of the SubCamps of Auschwitz. This
is what we have come to.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
This episode of timeless wisdom will continue right after this.
Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Why have we come to this?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Oh, this I've spoken on for all these years, But
I'll tell you one reason. The utter paradise in which
Western culture has raised a generation has made them completely
unaware of what real evil is like. And when you
(28:04):
don't experience what Ari Hassenberg has experienced, it's very easy
to sit in your air conditioned rabbinic office in La Denver,
New York and write on the Internet how it's wrong
to celebrate the day of anyone. But if you see
what I know, all of you know went on in Auschwitz,
(28:30):
and you know that one of those people who did
any one of those things is now dead. You think
it's wrong to celebrate that. What has happened? What has happened.
This was a true smoking gun to me of the
bankruptcy of much of Judaism today that so many rabbis joined,
(28:53):
and so many Christians it's the same in Christianity have
joined the bandwagon of you can't celebrate anyone's death. An
embarrassment at people chanting USA, USA, at the death of
the man called by this historian our modern Hitler. If
anybody would like to raise an issue, yes, please, sir.
(29:23):
Why to celebrate? Well, you raise a very passionate issue
to me, because we've been working for years now on
a July fourth Satyr for Americans of all backgrounds to celebrate.
I think it's more true about Memorial Day. I think
that we should adopt, for example, what Israel has that
(29:46):
all traffic and all intercourse between people, and for one
minute on Memorial Day a siren at noon in each
time zone is played, or whatever time you stop your car,
you stand up outside.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
It would transform the society.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
The reason Jews have survived three thousand, six hundred years
is ritual. Ritual preserves memory, not the brain. The brain
does not remember. Actions cause the brain to remember.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Yes, I should be very angry celeberation the fact that
this monster funeral.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Oh that he was You mean you he was buried?
You were angry that he was buried according to Muslim law. Yes,
I don't have a position on that. I'm just happy
that he was buried at sea. There is no shrine.
I thought that they handled it frankly quite well. Did
he not deserve I'll tell you the one thing that
is interesting. Any Muslim who does say he should have
(30:54):
been given proper rights should be asked this question. I
thought the argument of nearly all Muslim spokesman is that
he was not a Muslim. Why then should he be
given any proper Muslim rights. You can't have it both ways.
You can't say, oh, he's not a Muslim, he's just
(31:15):
a terrorist, he has nothing to do with Islam, and
then demand that he'd be given proper rights of aurial.
That's the question I would like to pose. Yes, please
stand Yeah, I never heard that that that there's that
(31:48):
part of the official uh uh right of prayer upon
burialist curse the Jews and christ the Christians. That's more
while living that is said, and not certainly not by
by own Muslims by any means. I don't know it
would be dishonest and wrong to say that, but certainly
there is a percentage that believed that, and certainly come
(32:09):
us would be an example of that. Yes, I'll repeat
in case you can hear at the back. I think
(32:37):
it's a very fine point that she said, and correctly
is in hatred a motivator for a lot of the
good that happened. Why you don't hate racism? Right, you
don't hate drunk driving? Now you could say drunk drivers
might be You know, drunk drivers are not being loddeness.
I mean that we all recognize. On the other hand,
(32:59):
they kill a hell of a lot more than bin
Laden killed in total.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
But you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
That's why I said this moral hatred and immoral hatred.
We should be against immoral hatred. But your kids at
college at forty thousand dollars a year if you're lucky,
is our learning that hatred is wrong? Hatred is not wrong.
Depends what you hate. We think one more, yes, please stand?
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, what about the issue of an eye for an eyepronize. Actually,
justice is not hatred. It was one of the great
steps forward in human history. What it said was that
the eye of a nobleman and the eye of a
serf are equal. Never take more. And of course it
was always understood as monetary compensation.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
I said one more, so that would be it.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Forgive me sachallon everybody.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
This has been timeless wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit denispragger
dot com for thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses,
and classic radio programs, and to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles.
Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Here thousands of
hours of Dennis's lectures courses in classic radio programs. Had
to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, go to Dennisprager dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I want to talk to you about an event that
took place, but it's already now history, even though it
was three weeks ago.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
And you know, we move on in life.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
The news cycle is such that it's both a blessing
and a curse. All blessings or also curses. And the
amount of news that we take in is partially a
curse in that the big issues are forgotten so rapidly.
Bin Laden was killed just three weeks ago, and I
(01:16):
want to talk to you about reactions to the celebrates
that took place in the United States of America as
a result of the killing of bin Laden, how rabbis, priests, ministers,
and others have reacted, and how, in my opinion, the
world is truly morally upside down. I daily pinch myself
(01:43):
if I guess I have to put it this way.
If my views are on these matters are accurate, we're
in bad shape. And if they're not accurate, we're in
bad shape because there are the dominant ideas today are
so morally odd and different from the past. And I
(02:07):
am specifically referring, and I will review examples from Christianity
and Judaism. The number of rabbis and Christian clergy who
are angry at people who celebrated the killing of Osama
bin Laden. I would say the bulk of Christian and
(02:29):
Jewish clergy are opposed to celebrating the death of bin Laden.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
And I will.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Give you examples in all of these cases. Here is
a pastor, Brian McLaren. Time magazine named him one of
the twenty five most influential evangelicals in America a few
years ago. Reacting to television images of young Americans chanting
Usa USA the night bin Laden's death was announced, the
(03:00):
pastor wrote, quote, I can only say that this image
does not reflect well on my country. Joyfully celebrating the
killing of a killer who joyfully celebrated killing carries an
irony that I hope will not be lost on us.
Get So, those who celebrate bin Laden's death are morally
(03:26):
equivalent to the people who celebrated nine to eleven. Get it,
they celebrated death, and they celebrated death.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And there you go.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And I'm a pastor and I'm one of the twenty
five most influential according to time. Are we learning anything
or simply spinning harder in the cycle of violence? Now
a word on the words on the phrase cycle of violence.
There are a few phrases that in the course of
my lifetime. As soon as I see I know the
(04:00):
person doesn't think clearly. Cycle of violence is a giveaway.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
It is life. Forgive me if this is on your car.
I never mean to be insulting.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
And I'm not insulting these I know that people I
differ with have wonderful intentions, and I never attack their motives.
But it is like the bumper sticker, what is it?
The one not tolerance? What's the word again? With all
the symbols of the religions, co exist? Okay, it's the
(04:38):
message coexists needs to be on a bumper sticker in
Saudi Arabia, not the United States. This is the land
of coexistence. Religions get along great in the United States.
It's a useless bumper sticker in America. The places where
you need to put it up, you would be killed
if you put it up. The place where you don't
(05:00):
need to put it up. It is meaningless. So to
cycle of violence. World War two was a cycle of violence,
right the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor and then we bombed
the Japanese. Why wasn't that just a cycle of violence?
Cycle of violence means that all violence is morally equivalent.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
But that's that's what I.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Mean by the decline of clarity and moral thinking in
our time. Not all violence is morally equal. Some violence
is moral, some violence is immoral. We are so anti violence,
we should be anti evil. This is the message that
I want to bring to you today. Judaism is anti evil,
(05:43):
not anti violence. There isn't a shred of pacifism in Judaism,
not a shred. Pacifism has no place in Judaism, never
did until the until the era we live in. Now
there are pacifist rabbis. This is brand new and Jewish history.
The idea that it is always wrong to kill is
(06:06):
a brand new idea, and it is not It is
not one that is found anywhere in Judaism nowhere. Okay,
I'm gonna I promise I'll deal with that. And if
I don't, just raise your hand in But it's on
my list.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.
Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So number one, what this pastor says, The entire thing
the pastor says is upside down morally, and so he was.
Again the image does not reflect well on my country.
Joyfully celebrating the killing of a killer who joyfully celebrated
killing carries an irony that I hope will not be
(06:58):
lost on us. So you get it. Bin Lodden celebrated
nine to eleven, we celebrate his death. We're all the same.
Isn't that ironic? I don't see any irony here. I
see moral clarity on the part of those who know
what the difference between good and evil is. Nine to
eleven is not the same as killing o'salombin lad and
(07:18):
then again the cycle.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Of violence nonsense.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Next, CNN reported the reaction of an episcopal priest, a
woman Danielle to Mineo, whose Long Island neighborhood lost scores
of people in the nine to eleven attacks. So they
went to her because so many people were killed in
her neighborhood nine to eleven, including church members. Quote from
CNN when she saw images of Americans celebrating. My first
(07:45):
reaction was I wish I was with them. My second
reaction was, this is disgusting. We shouldn't be celebrating the death.
Excuse me, we shouldn't be celebrating the death of anybody.
It felt gross. We shouldn't be celebrating the death of anybody.
Had Hitler died in nineteen forty one, do you know
(08:07):
how many people would still have lived. What kind of
moral brain is it that would say you can't celebrate
the death of anyone. I'm telling you you don't know
how morally confused this generation is.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
And I don't know if it could be undone.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I don't know. It takes eons to build moral clarity
and it takes one generation to undo it all. Now
give you a rabbi. This is one of many rabbis,
by the way, this is just an example. This is
a rabbi, the senior Rabbi Temple Emmanuel Denver, Colorado, Rabbi
(08:48):
Joe black And in his blog and it was carried
on Facebook, so it's easily found. Reflections on the death
of Bin Laden on Yom Hushoa. He was killed on
Yom hush Shoa. By the way, last night, like most
of us, my family and I were transfixed by the
(09:09):
scenes playing out on our TV screens. The celebrations that
were taking place outside of the White House, at Times Square,
at Ground Zero, and throughout the world following confirmation by
President Obama Thatsma bin Laden had.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Been killed were spellbinding.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
It was as if a cloud had been lifted from
our national consciousness. The jubilationian and spontaneous demonstrations of national
pride that these mostly young revelers were displaying was both
wonderful and disconcerting. Chance of USA USA filled the air
and reporters who were interviewing survivors of the nine to
eleven rescue operations that are indelibly linked in our consciousness.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Consciousness.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
At last, we had some positive news in the war
on terror. American commandos had broken through the seemingly impenetrable
wall of invincibility that al Qaida had created. The mass
murderer of thousands had finally been eliminated. And yet, waking
up this morning, however, I don't feel too much like celebrating.
(10:10):
Bin Laden died a violent death. He deserved to die.
But while I am relieved that bin Laden no longer
poses a threat. I have no illusions that his death
will put an end to terror. On the contrary, most
of us are bracing ourselves for the inevitable reaction of
al Qaeda and the myriad of terrorist offshoots that it
has fallen. Now, just let me comment on that. Though
(10:33):
this is not the subject. My subject is the moral issue.
Nobody claimed that it's the end of terror killing Osama
bin lad so's he's he's making a claim that that
doesn't matter. Nobody says that ends terror. It's just a
good thing that he died. It's better than not. And
(10:54):
every expert that I have read says it is a
real blow to al Qaeda, that symbolically his death is
a major thing. All right, So I don't know he's
arguing with a straw man, but all right. In addition,
and here comes the moral issue. The image of celebrating
(11:14):
the death of another human being, no matter how evil
he may have been, doesn't fit image of the highest
ideals for which we as a nation stand.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
They we're not.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
We're not supposed to celebrate the death of any other person.
I remember the Los Angeles Police Department shot a man
who was who was about to rape a woman and
kidnapped the woman, rape her, and and and by all.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
The indications, was going to kill her.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
With a gun after he raped her, and they killed
him in time.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I was thrilled.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I mean, and and did I go outside and party. No,
But that's only because that's not my style. But the
world is a better place because that guy got shot
before he did.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
That to that woman.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I this is a type of thinking that I don't understand.
It's it's new, But where does this idea? You never
celebrate the death of another human company? Now, I'll be
with all the sources. He for example, says his next
sentence in the Book of Proverbs, we find the following,
do not rejoice when your enemy falls, and let not
(12:31):
your heart be glad when he stumbles. Then he writes,
It's another thing I'm never a big fan of. But
it's okay, my son Ethan. When people quote their young kids.
You know, most people have young kids who say cute things,
but we don't necessarily write them in our blogs. But okay,
my son Ethan beautifully captured his duality of feeling in
(12:56):
his Facebook when he wrote, regardless of how despicable or
evil an individual might be, we as Americans, never celebrate
the death of another. Where did he get this from?
Where did Ethan his son get it? The answers he
got it from his father, exactly right. But he didn't
get it from American history. We instead celebrate the end
(13:20):
to an era of fear and terror. But it's not over.
The father just said it's not over. We're gonna have
more terror than ever. I guess he didn't get that
part from his dad. We celebrate the individuals who keep
us safe from those who want to harm us. Most importantly,
we celebrate the universal ideals of freedom and justice. Okay,
(13:40):
I celebrate the ideal of killing evil people.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I'm a big fan of that.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I just want to go on record as saying that
this morning, the world is a different place. This is
the Rabbi now his final paragraph. This morning, the world
is a different place than it was last night. Not
because a terrorist has been killed, but rather, now listen
to this. This is unbelievable. I don't this, I truly
don't understand. So why is the world different from last night?
(14:08):
Not because the leading terrorist on earth was killed, nope,
but rather because we have been given an opportunity to heal,
to heal from what I don't an opportunity to heal
one man's death. However, Justified will not bring back the
(14:28):
thousands upon thousands who have died due to hatred. See
due to hatred. It's like it's due to his hatred.
He didn't say that. Notice that he's anti hatred. I'm
not anti hatred. I think I've told you that Berkeley,
the city of Berkeley, many years ago, passed a resolution
that Berkeley is a hate free zone, and I immediately
(14:51):
announced on the radio, I will never be allowed.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
To visit Berkeley. I do hate, and.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I'm commanded by my religion to it. Ojavea do na
si murdad. Those of you who love God must hate evil.
It's set every Shabbata kabalahabad from the psalms. But they're
against hatred. This embodied from morality. This is the what
I'm worried about. We don't think morally. Now think with feelings.
(15:22):
I hate hatred. I don't hate hatred. I hate evil.
There's a very big difference. The Rabbis were geniuses in
this matter. Why was the temple destroyed and why did
we have a sort of Holocaust. The number of Jews
killed was was unbelievable in the first and second destructions
(15:43):
of the Temple and the Jewish state. What did the
rabbis say was the reason we were killed? Nearly all
of you notice because of sinatinam They were brilliant. Sinattinam
means gratuitous hatred, baseless hatred. They never said because of Sinah.
It wasn't because of Jews hating. It was because of
(16:07):
Jews hating for no good reason. There's a huge difference
between hating for no good reason and hating for good reason.
Your damn well should hate for good reason. Then if
you really want to get depressed, you read the comments
on the rabbi's blog. I couldn't agree more. I found
(16:28):
the celebration, the wild, the celebrations of the death very disconcerting.
Thank you you articulated well my feelings this day, so
well said. Thank you for clearing up the mixed emotions.
I was feeling well done, beautiful, Thank you Rabbi, and
so on. Now let me deal with all the verses
(16:49):
in the Talmud and in the Bible on this issue,
and then I will explain to you what they mean
and why they are misunderstood.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
So first is the sun. See, oh good, that's great.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
First, here you have the tumutc statement, and all of
you know these statements. By the way, when the Egyptians
were drowning in the sea of reeds, the angels wanted
to sing, but God said to them, the work of
my hands is drowning in the sea, and you want
to sing. All of the rabbis who are anti celebrating
(17:25):
bin Laden's death, bring this verse. I have heard this
verse sighted since I was in Yeshiva. It's very important, however,
to understand whom God addressed. God addressed the angels, not people.
Angels have different criteria for how they should behave. And then,
(17:46):
first of all, it's all allegorical. Okay, it's all allegorical.
The rabbis made up a beautiful little story. And I
understand that God isn't going to go jubilant over the
entire Egyptian army drowning in the sea. God is the
father of all creatures. And even if your child is rotten,
you're still sad that your child dies.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
But I'm not said your child dies.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
If you're a mister bin Laden sor there's a big
difference between being God.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Or an angel and being a person.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
God never rebuked the Jews for singing, and as you
brought up, and indeed, as I point out in my
the article I wrote on this, which is in you
want to see in the Jewish Journal this week, uh
the uh Oziah Mocheb. I'm going to say, Rahazolt, what
(18:36):
did what did Moses and Israel do after the Egyptians drowned?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
They sang a song? Did God rebuke them?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Is there a hint a hint of God being dissatisfied
with this song? Moses was wrong, but Rabbi so and
so a temple Emmanuel is right.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I'll take Moses personally.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Do you you know we are living in an age
of non Judaism Jews. It's the worst age we've ever
lived in. I can live with non Jewish Jews. The
non Jewish Jew is the person who completely is alienated
from Jewish identity. Secular or religious. Respect that person. It's
a free world. You can identify with what you want.
(19:24):
You want to be a Buddhist, you want to be
an atheist, that's your business. I respect that. I respect
Jews to the right of me. I respect Jews to
the left of me. I. The only Jew I don't
respect is the Jew who turns Judaism upside that who
says this is what a Jew should act like when
there is no basis for it. In Judaism, we sang,
(19:48):
God did not rebuke. And if you read the whole thing,
do not come out. God is a God is a
man of war.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Just read it. It's the most famous.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
I mean, I know it by heart because we said
it every day and yeshiv and to this day, Jews
who pray every day say it every day. It's in
the shock service Oz yes here Mochem said this.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
And then when.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
They got to the other side and the Egyptians drowned,
Moses and the children of Israel sang the following.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
So this episode of timeless wisdom, I'll continue right after this.
Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
So this citation, Ah, they're my children angels, you shouldn't sing. Fine,
any of you who are angels don't sing. However, if
you're human, you have a perfect right to sing at
the death of the truly evil. Next, the Biblical Book
of Proverbs, when your enemy falls, do not rejoice. And
(20:53):
when he stumbles. Let your heart not exult. Okay, let
me explain something about the word enemy. Christians and Jews
get this wrong. And by the way, I was really
delighted to see that the explanation I am about to
give you for the word enemy is exactly what Adingsteinsaltz,
(21:14):
one of the most revered Jewish scholars living today, gives
as well. You could check it on the internet. It
is almost word for word what I wrote in my
article and what I am about to tell you, and
what I have said to Christians in particular. And I feel,
and I always say on the radiocle certain amount of
huts for telling Christians what Jesus said, because they get
(21:36):
it wrong. But nevertheless, I was endowed with kutzbla at
birth and I use it. But for example, he says
love your enemy, right, and so therefore Christians say, we
have to love communists, we have to love Nazis, we
have to love racists, we have to love bin Laden.
(21:57):
That is not it, and it is not what Proverbs
said when your enemy falls, do not rejoice. We're talking,
as Jesus was in his case, with turn the other
cheek and love your enemy with you as an individual
and the people you are antagonistic to in your life.
That is perfectly accurate. Most people have enemies in the
(22:20):
core of their life. In business, they had a terrible
falling out God forbid, and a divorce. Somebody becomes an enemy,
whatever it might be, whatever the situation, that you don't
celebrate their demands, that's correct, But that is not the
(22:40):
same as the objectively evil. Osama bin Laden was not
my enemy. I never met the man. He never personally
hurt me at all. He had no real role in
my life. My personal enemies and I haven't had many,
thank God, But my personal enemies have had a much
(23:01):
bigger role in my daily life than Osama bin Laden did.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Osama bin Laden was not my enemy. Bin Laden was
an evil man.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
It doesn't say do not rejoice at the fall of evil.
It has the opposite. That's the point.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Here. Let me give it to you.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, the Talmud, when the wicked perish from the world,
good comes to the world. Proverbs, when the wicked perish,
there is joyful song. The Proverbs and the Talmud distinguish
between enemy and evil.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Get it. Your personal enemy is not the evil.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
That's your issue, and you shouldn't act toward that person
as if that person is Osama bin loved. Now if
your person let them is Issam bin Laden, that's a
separate issue. Is this clear the distinction between enemy and evil.
You do celebrate the fall of evil, the death of
evil people. You don't celebrate the fall of a person
(24:12):
that you are antagonistic to in your life. That's a
big difference, and that's a great lesson. And the words
of Proverbs are clear as a bell. We celebrate the
fall of evil. We don't celebrate when our enemy falls.
That's the difference. Let me summarize here. There's a British
(24:38):
historian named Andrew Roberts. He's just come out with a
history of World War Two. I like this man because
moral passion. He wrote in the Wall Street Journal to
follow him. Remember he's a British historian. My countryman's reactions
to the death of Osama bin Laden. That means my
fellow Brits have made me doubt my pride in being British.
(25:03):
The foul outpouring of smearing, anti Americanism, legalistic quibbling.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
You know what the legalistic quibbling is about? Right? Was
it right to kill him?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
He may not have been armed at that moment, and
concerned for the supposed human rights of our a modern
Hitler have left me squirming in embarrassment and apology before
my American friends. Britain's utterly refuse to obey the natural
instincts of the freeborn to celebrate the death of a tyrant.
(25:40):
When the Mets Phillies baseball game erupted into cheers on
hearing the wonderful news, or the crowds chanted Usa Usa
outside the White House, they were manifesting the finest emotional
responses of a great people.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
And now I will end with this.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
For every rabbi who says we shouldn't cheer the death
of anyone, I want you to confront this person with
a man named Ari Hassenberg. This was cited in Saul
Friedlander's History of the Holocaust. I know of it because
(26:24):
it was cited in the book that I am reading
on the History of World War II by Andrew Robins Okay.
Ari Hassenberg was the Prince was a prisoner at Auschwitz Burganel,
as quoted by Holocaust historian Saul Friedlander, after one of
the Auschwitz sub camps, Manavitz was bombed by the Allies.
(26:49):
Hassenberg's reaction was quote to see a killed German, that
was why we enjoyed the bombing. Is Hassenberg Unjewish in
his reaction? Immoral in his reaction? According to virtually every
rabbi cited on this issue, he would be he would
(27:11):
have to.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Be considered.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
That his reaction would have to be considered Unjewish. He
shouldn't have been happy that ss Guard were killed in
the bombing of one of the SubCamps of Auschwitz. This
is what we have come to.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
This episode of timeless wisdom will continue right after this.
Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Why have we come to this?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Oh, this I've spoken on for all these years, But
I'll tell you one reason. The utter paradise in which
Western culture has raised a generation has made them completely
unaware of what real evil is like. And when you
(28:04):
don't experience what Ari Hassenberg has experienced, it's very easy
to sit in your air conditioned rabbinic office in La Denver,
New York and write on the Internet how it's wrong
to celebrate the day of anyone. But if you see
what I know, all of you know went on in Auschwitz,
(28:30):
and you know that one of those people who did
any one of those things is now dead. You think
it's wrong to celebrate that. What has happened? What has happened.
This was a true smoking gun to me of the
bankruptcy of much of Judaism today that so many rabbis joined,
(28:53):
and so many Christians it's the same in Christianity have
joined the bandwagon of you can't celebrate anyone's death. An
embarrassment at people chanting USA, USA, at the death of
the man called by this historian our modern Hitler. If
anybody would like to raise an issue, yes, please, sir.
(29:23):
Why to celebrate? Well, you raise a very passionate issue
to me, because we've been working for years now on
a July fourth Satyr for Americans of all backgrounds to celebrate.
I think it's more true about Memorial Day. I think
that we should adopt, for example, what Israel has that
(29:46):
all traffic and all intercourse between people, and for one
minute on Memorial Day a siren at noon in each
time zone is played, or whatever time you stop your car,
you stand up outside.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
It would transform the society.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
The reason Jews have survived three thousand, six hundred years
is ritual. Ritual preserves memory, not the brain. The brain
does not remember. Actions cause the brain to remember.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Yes, I should be very angry celeberation the fact that
this monster funeral.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Oh that he was You mean you he was buried?
You were angry that he was buried according to Muslim law. Yes,
I don't have a position on that. I'm just happy
that he was buried at sea. There is no shrine.
I thought that they handled it frankly quite well. Did
he not deserve I'll tell you the one thing that
is interesting. Any Muslim who does say he should have
(30:54):
been given proper rights should be asked this question. I
thought the argument of nearly all Muslim spokesman is that
he was not a Muslim. Why then should he be
given any proper Muslim rights. You can't have it both ways.
You can't say, oh, he's not a Muslim, he's just
(31:15):
a terrorist, he has nothing to do with Islam, and
then demand that he'd be given proper rights of aurial.
That's the question I would like to pose. Yes, please
stand Yeah, I never heard that that that there's that
(31:48):
part of the official uh uh right of prayer upon
burialist curse the Jews and christ the Christians. That's more
while living that is said, and not certainly not by
by own Muslims by any means. I don't know it
would be dishonest and wrong to say that, but certainly
there is a percentage that believed that, and certainly come
(32:09):
us would be an example of that. Yes, I'll repeat
in case you can hear at the back. I think
(32:37):
it's a very fine point that she said, and correctly
is in hatred a motivator for a lot of the
good that happened. Why you don't hate racism? Right, you
don't hate drunk driving? Now you could say drunk drivers
might be You know, drunk drivers are not being loddeness.
I mean that we all recognize. On the other hand,
(32:59):
they kill a hell of a lot more than bin
Laden killed in total.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
But you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
That's why I said this moral hatred and immoral hatred.
We should be against immoral hatred. But your kids at
college at forty thousand dollars a year if you're lucky,
is our learning that hatred is wrong? Hatred is not wrong.
Depends what you hate. We think one more, yes, please stand?
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, what about the issue of an eye for an eyepronize. Actually,
justice is not hatred. It was one of the great
steps forward in human history. What it said was that
the eye of a nobleman and the eye of a
serf are equal. Never take more. And of course it
was always understood as monetary compensation.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
I said one more, so that would be it.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Forgive me sachallon everybody.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
This has been timeless wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit denispragger
dot com for thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses,
and classic radio programs, and to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles.
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Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!