November 27, 2024 • 46 mins
Today our guest is Yoni Shrira, friend of the show and survivor of the Family Foundation School, a troubled teen sobriety school that became notorious for how many of its former students died after going through the program. In part one today, he’s going to talk about what he was like as a teenager, how he was genuinely out of control when it came to drugs and alcohol, and why his parents believed the school was the best option to help him.
He’ll tell us about the religious undertones of the group, how the students were separated into groups they called “families,” the culture of constant fear and snitching, and why he thinks so many kids died. Plus next week, we’ll talk about some of the harrowing punishments the kids experienced and what it felt like to finally leave.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you have your own story of being in a
cult or a high control group.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power
that you'd like to share.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Leave us a message on our hotline number at three
four seven eight six trust.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight, or.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Showed us an email at trust Me pod at gmail
dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Trust Me.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Trust Me.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I'm like a swat person.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I've never lied to you. I've never had a live.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
If you think that one person has all the answers, don't.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Welcome to trust Me.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
The podcast about cold and extreme belief and manipulation from
two thirty something year old juvenile delinquents who have.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Actually experienced it. I am Lola Blanc and I am
Megan Elizabeth.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Today our guest is Yoni Shereira, friend of the show
and survivor of the Family Foundation School, which was a
troubled teen sobriety school that became notorious for how many
of its former students died after going through the program.
In part one today, he's going to talk about what
he was like as a teenager, how he was genuinely
out of control when it came to drugs and alcohol,
(01:03):
and why his parents believed the school was the best
option to help him.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
He'll tell us about the religious undertones of the group,
how the students were separated into groups they called families,
the culture of constant fear and snitching, and why he
thinks so many kids died. Plus next week we'll talk
about some of the harrowing punishments the kids experienced and
what it felt like to finally leave. That's right.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
This was such a wild interview for unrelated reasons to
the content, just because I've known Yoni from this area
of my life, and you know Yoni from that area
of your life. And then I found out that he's
dating this person I know from this other area of Like,
this just was worlds colliding with this interview. This is
not relevant to our listeners, but it was cool.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
It was cool, and his story is really insane.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
It is really insane.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I had no idea that any of this was in
his history, and it's a very compelling story and I
think y'all will like it.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
So stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And before we hear it, Megan, can you tell me
your cultiest thing of the week.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I can. Last night I watched the new Netflix release
call who killed John Bennet Ramsey and I have never
seen well Number one, it's horrible. Don't watch it if
you ever want to sleep again in your entire life,
because it's so terrifying in that poor little girl. But
from a broader perspective, it really is so culty and
(02:26):
I don't want to give too many things away, but
you really see this like court of public opinion, pressure leaders.
At the midpoint, a new character comes in who's kind
of the anti cult of it all, and it's just
a fascinating, fascinating watch from the perspective of cults in
(02:48):
my opinion.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
M Yeah, yeah, I like, as you know, I miss
a lot of true crime dogs because I just like,
for whatever reason.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
You know, don't I don't want that much of it
in my head all the time.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, but this one does seem super super interesting. I'm
just like, I'm endlessly fascinated by the ways that reactions
to genuine injustices can can escalate themselves and themselves become
a problem.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
That makes me the people who are angry about this
child dying.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, is that what you're kind of talking
about totally? Yeahh I just find that endlessly fascinating, and
there's so many. Yeah, I'm curious to watch for sure, And.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
You know there are people that are bad guys, probably,
but you kind of empathize with them. You can tell
everybody's trying to do the right thing. Everybody thinks they
have the hmm. It's just really fascinating. So anyway, I
can't wait for you to watch it and discuss it.
But again, like all the trigger warnings in the world,
because I did not get any sleep last night, nor
(03:49):
will I ever again, what about you, what's the colziest
thing that happened to you this week?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I just was sort of doing a little dive into
till see Gabbard's connection to her cold twitch. I had
seen headlines about and there's always I feel like I
always see sensational headlines about hupl's connections to cold and cults,
and it's usually like kind of flimsy, but it is
actually interesting. So for anyone who doesn't know who told
(04:15):
Sy Gabbart is she's a politician from Hawaii who rose
to like national prominence when she ran for president actually
as a Democrat in twenty twenty. She ended up switching sides.
Now she's a full TRUMPISA, and she has been named
as the Director of National Intelligence for this new upcoming term. So,
you know, I dislike a lot of this woman's beliefs,
(04:37):
but it's interesting because a lot of them have parallels
to this group that she has grown up with and
been connected to. So they are called the Science of
Identity Foundation, and this man founded it in the sixties,
I believe, or in maybe the seventies. In the seventies,
he was sort of like an offshoot of the hay Krishnaz.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
This white guy is like, actually, I'm the guru and weird.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
You know, the different people have come forward who were
in the group or like her aunt has come like people,
different people have talked about it. She's been open about
the fact that Chris Butler, this man this is this
man's name is her like spiritual guide and guru. But
when you actually like learn about his like who he
is in this group, it's kind of he is like
(05:25):
the ultimate leader. He talks to God or like he
is the ultimate authority on all things. You don't really
do anything that he doesn't want you to do. He's
like a helladermophobe, extremely homophobic, extremely anti Islamic. So another
thing that I thought was interesting was that her entire
Oh yeah, it says people would feed him regularly, tend
to his laundry. Food couldn't be late, food had to
(05:48):
be hot. He'd swear at you if you would get
it wrong. If there was an article of clothing you
get that he doesn't use, like that's like sacred.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
She has been in it since she was a kid.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
When Tolsy Gabbard ran for president in twenty twenty, her
aunt said, basically her entire campaign staff were members of
this group. And there are people that have said, there's
a quote from someone saying, we're told his perspective and
what he says is one hundred percent accurate. So if
that's skewed, then whatever you listen to from him is
also going to be skewed. And basically the people are saying, like,
she would not like have this position in politics, if
(06:19):
he didn't want her to have this position in politics,
And it's this like it's kind of a goal of
his to have his people like in governments. So it
is really incredible how many like religious groups run by
sketchy ass leaders are like, all right, let's get y'all
into the government totally and I totally understand how at
least conspiracy theories, although I do not think it means
(06:39):
that Tolsi Gabbard is a part of a like shadowy
cult network. I think that would be silly, but it
does seem like she had that. They definitely she was.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
On a shadowy cult, but not in a shadowy cult
network network. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, yeah, they're just like a bunch of random cults
that happen to have their opinion.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Also, so many white people men starting cults in Hawaii.
It's never ceases to amaze me.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
So it is incredible. Also, I just have to add
his house was covered in tinfoil to keep out terms.
So that's super normal and sounds really effective too.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
That's super science space.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
That is new.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
So okay, well should we talk to Yoni.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Let's talk to Yannie.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Welcome Yoanie Shreira to trust me in person. Thank you
for being with us today.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Of course, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It's so exciting to have you. We both know you
in real life separately for unrelated reasons, oddly, and now
we get to talk to you about a piece of
your life that is maybe a little bit less fun
than the reasons that we know you, Yeah, start us
in your teen years? What kind of kid were you?
What was going on in your life before all this began.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
I usually say I was pretty much into everything besides fighting.
I was like not a fighting kid. I was a
pacifist who just loved to get fucked up, But wasn't
such a pacifist that I wouldn't like steal from you
even if you were my friend, which that was the
first kind of like significant trouble I got into. I
(08:19):
got kicked out of school for stealing. And Yeah, it
was just like a lot of drinking and getting high
and stealing and running away, Like I would go missing
for a number of days, which scared my parents, especially
going missing in La. Oh you were in La Yeah,
I grew up here. Yeah, so it was kind of
like a lot of that stuff.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Were your parents religious at all?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
What was your not religious? Religious?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
And when it was just kind of like regular discipline
isn't working, we got to like get only under control.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah. I mean I also had two parents that were
very different in regards to like their parenting style, Like
my dad was super passive and my mom was like
like my mom I would describe as probably like the
most anxious person I know, and that's saying a lot
because I know a lot of anxious people, but like
she is like insanely anxious, and I think she kind
(09:11):
of had somewhat unstable childhood and so she like always
she like tried to micromanage as much as possible.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Did you ever get arrested or anything?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Actually I only got arrested once in sobriety for something
very uncool. There were these projects by my old place
in Brooklyn, and we had no air conditioning, no windows,
we had like nothing, like it was just like a
brick box that we lived in, and we tried to
like hop the fence. There was like this public pool
(09:41):
in the center of these projects, and we got arrested
at like too.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Were going to a pool.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yeah, So.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
The rebellious days, it's always so interesting to me because
I was not raised in a big city, and I
know that this happens in small towns and whatever, but
I wasn't even introduced to alcohol clubs like seventeen, and
so like when I hear about little kids getting into
this level of them as chief, I'm like, damn, that's
so intense, Like my brain would have broken immediately to
(10:12):
be on drugs.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
When I was in high school, I was a good
I mean I've still never drank guess you know, yeah,
but I would hang around people who would, and I.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Thought it was so cool.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
I've ever drank.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
No, I've never drank.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Wow, Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
I mean it's weird.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, it was probably brother Oka, but that wasn't why
it was started in Mormonism. And then I just I
left Mormonism and I was like I don't know, yeah,
why this doesn't feel like a thing that I I'll do.
And now it's like so built up because I'm like
I'd like to try wine, but now it's so built
up that it feels like it's got to be like
the perfect occasion, which has never happened because I haven't
(10:47):
gotten into sundance yet.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So but like even yeah, even like I was like
sixteen and reading Ya novels where I was like, I
can't wait till I get my first French kids. I
don't know, I'm just saying. I was like, it's impressive
to me in a bad way and we might have
to take this part out, but like, wow, a bad boy. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
(11:11):
it's like kind of cool.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
I would have also thought that, yeah, I loved it.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Well, I think like I don't know why, but I
always even like as a first of all, the first
time I drank, it was like one of those things
where I didn't It wasn't like I was going around
being like I can't wait to drink. It was literally
like it was given to me at a bar mitzvah
after party one time, damn, and which like that is
(11:39):
not regular. Most people like don't have bar mitzvah after parties.
But my best friend Hanky, his brother, Yeah, his brother,
like we were in private school, like going from seventh
to eighth grade, and his brother was like like going
in his senior year at the local public school, and
he had like a bunch of his friends over one
(12:00):
night and after his brother, Hanky's bar mitzvah, and his
brother got to invite like two or three of his friends,
and so I got to go and they literally just
like fed us drinks all night, and I got like
blacked out, and it was like really like one of
those things where it's like WHOA, Like what a shame?
I didn't do this sooner? And I'm gonna do this
(12:20):
like every day for the rest of my life.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
But I felt after blacking out.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Okay, that night, I just had a lot of fun.
But then like a few days later, we smoked weed
for the first time, okay, and that was like the
first time I was like coherent. So that was the
first time I was like I'm gonna do.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
This, like right right right, yeah, okay. And your parents
were just like oh God, and.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Your mom, I mean, what a nightmare. It's like her
worst dream.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Oh totally yeah. And I think like I didn't have
like the foresight of being like, oh, if I'm like
a little like more chill about this, I can probably
get away with more. I just was like, I don't know, rebellious,
and so I just got into trouble immediately that first night,
they like shaved off my eyebrow, and I remember my
(13:03):
mom picked me up and she like started sobbing. Oh, now,
how are you gonna show up to all these other
bar mits? Was you have no eyebrow? It was very
much like the optics of everything.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
That's so, I mean, that's I love where her priorities are.
How are you going to go to the BARMT says, So.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
How old were you when they were like, all right,
we need to take some real action.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
The first time I ever got sent to an outpatient,
I was fourteen, which was like ridiculous, Like, in hindsight,
that was pretty ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
And it also an outpatient like sobriety okay.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Like and like at that point, I pretty much had
no friends that like drank or got high like I did,
so I didn't have It was like a lot of
doing it by myself. And then going to that outpatient
was the first time I met people that, you know,
like to get fucked up like I did, and.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
So it always like it kind of makes it worse.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, oh totally yeah, Like.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Oh damn, you have access to even more drugs.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Yeah, let's go. That was like where I got my
drug dealer. Moving forward, like yeah, yeah, Like I remember
I brought one of my friends from that rehab to
like my private school Halloween party and like every parent
was like totally freaked out by him. Wow. It was
just like, yeah, it just introduced me to people that
I never would have or not never, but I just
(14:26):
at that point have interacted with Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
And so at what point does the Family Foundation school
seem like the best option to your parents?
Speaker 3 (14:37):
So then I'd gotten kicked out of a school, and
then I went to a new school and I tried
to kind of like get my shit together because I
also at that time got a girlfriend who was like
kind of like straight laced or whatever, and you know,
she like I don't know. I was like, Oh, I
want to like do better, you know, and so I'm going.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
To change for you.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
I was like fifteen, yeah, and ready to have a
whole new me, and I like tried to join the
football team and stuff like that. Oh do the whole
like straight lace person thing. And I think it like
literally lasted three weeks and then I kind of not
long after that, dropped out of school. And then my
(15:21):
parents started looking for places to send me.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
And how old were you at that point?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
It was like right before I turned sixteen?
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Okay, so how did they even find the school because
you're in Los Angeles and the school is across the country.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Where was it?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
It was in the cat Skills in Upsey, New York.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Okay, yeah, yeah, So how did they even come in
contact with us? Through someone's bar us far or.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
What actually close? Through a rabbi?
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Okay, this rabbit rabbi is like I know a place.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Yeah, yeah, And what's funny is my parents, Like my
parents are the most like culturally Jewish people in the world,
but like not religious at all, Like my dad. I
just had dinner with my dad last night, and for
like the fifth dinner in a row, he made it
a point to talk to me about how much he
doesn't believe in God. But uh, yeah, their dad. Yeah, yeah.
(16:14):
They wanted to send me to a place in la
that was like a Jewish recovery program or something, but
you had to be eighteen to go. And the rabbi
of that place, I guess, had like knew someone that
worked at the like was like an administrative person at
the school or something, and so he was the one
(16:35):
who recommended it.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Okay, And what did you know about the school going
into it?
Speaker 3 (16:40):
I literally knew nothing.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
They're just like, you're going to move to a new school,
did you? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Did you? Did you or did you have the kidnap experience? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (16:48):
How did you? So? I didn't have the kidnap experience.
The way that they got me there was so at
that point my mom and I were my I mean,
my dad and I weren't close, but my dad and
I didn't really like fight much. Uh, and my mom
and I like could not be around each other and
like not fight, even to the point where at one
(17:09):
point my dad said like, hey, what if you and
I like moved somewhere for a while. And they had
phrased it as like, how would you feel about going
to a boarding school? And when I was in that
outpatient program, there was a girl that I knew there
that had gone to a boarding school in Vermont, and
she like talked about it like it was the best
thing in the world. Like she was like, Oh, we
(17:30):
would just go into the woods and do mushrooms all
day and like it was the shit. If you could
ever go to a boarding school, you should go. And
I was like a year or two before. Yeah, And
I was like when they mentioned boarding school, I was like, oh,
it sounds pretty sick. I get to like not be
around them at all and just like get fucked up.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, just like my parents out in the Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Yeah. And so I said I'll go if you could
smoke cigarettes and if there are girls there, like that
was my only criteria, and they were like, oh, yeah, sure, yeah,
you definitely can. And so my dad took me. They
were like, oh, we found a place in New York
(18:13):
and I just thought like New York City or something.
And we got there, and I mean at this point
in my life, I was like truly like fucked up.
Every moment I was like awake. And so we got
to New York. I was like fucked up on the plane.
When we landed, I was like just residually fucked up.
Like I was just like so hungover that Like I
(18:34):
remember we got in the rental car and I like
woke up like three hours later and we were driving
down the driveway and I was like looked around and
I was like, oh, this is not New York City.
But that was how like I got there.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Paint the picture of what you wake up to, what
your drive into, what does it look like?
Speaker 3 (19:03):
It was actually like insanely beautiful. It was like in
this valley in upstate New York, and I got there
at the end of fall, and it was like incredibly picturesque,
like uh, like the foliage the valley there was like
a little like pond or whatever. It was really beautiful.
But I had no I like truly was like so hungover.
(19:27):
I just recognized like this is I think the only
thing I felt in that moment was like this is
unfamiliar and it's really gray. And we got in and
there's this guy Bob who looked like a clown, like
actually like he looked like he had this really like
bulbous nose that was red and like the reddest face
(19:47):
and he wouldn't stop smiling for.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah, he was really weird. And he was like all right,
let's let's do your intake and and then my dad
started crying and I remember being like really embarrassed that
he was crying. He was crying and he went to
give me a hug, and I was just like yeah, okay,
bye uh and I went into the like locker room area,
(20:15):
and then I realized like, oh, this.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Is like not I'm not going to be horseback, right.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Yeah. Yeah. There was like the strip search thing and
the life shampoo and then like you know, checking all
your ship and then they give you someone called something
called like a buddy, which is like like a more
senior person there who just like takes you around like
you're not allowed to be by yourself there for the
(20:42):
first like two months two months. Yeah, whoa like even
to the point it's called like shadow to the point
where like if you go to the bathroom, they go
in with you.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Oh no, oh my god. So this is like a prison,
so they're strip searching you.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
They strip search you. Yeah. And I just remember the
first moment where it really kind of started to sink
in was we were walking out of the out of
the locker room and the guy who is my buddy
was like kind of going through this list of rules
and I literally couldn't tell you a word he said.
And then he said yeah, and it's an eighteen month
(21:20):
minimum program. And I was like, wait would you say?
And he's like, oh, yeah, it's like an eighteen month
minimum program. And it like literally felt like someone like
kicked me in the stomach. Oh my god. And I
was like, I think I was shocked then. And then
for like the rest of the week, I was like,
all right, don't cry in public. Don't cry in public.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I mean, as somebody who's had their own really fun
relationship with drugs and alcohol, are you now detoxing off
of this, like by yourself no help or are you okay?
Like what does that look like?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
At that point, I hadn't really been like I wasn't
I mean, I was drinking every day, but I wasn't
doing any hard drugs at that point in my life.
And I think I was just like so like shocked
by being there that I honestly I couldn't even tell
you like what I was like physically feeling at all.
(22:20):
Like I think I was just like so stunned and
just like depressed.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
But there was no like protocol of were giving you
some medicine or like helping this happen.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Like it's not a legitimate at that place now, wow.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
And there were occasionally kids that were there. I mean
almost everybody there had like substance abuse issues, and like
you know, we're there for like drinking or doing coke
or something like that. But occasionally there'd be someone there
that was maybe detoxing off of something that would be
like more dangerous.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Usually they would actually just leave, Like they would get
there and they'd be like, oh, this person's like physical detoxes,
you know, more dangerous than we can really handle. And
then they'll get some sense of well.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
That's I guess that's something.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yeah, And they were kidnapping a lot of these people,
can you just say, yeah, yeah, a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yeah, they had like an escort program where they would
come and have like two or three guys, depending on
how big you were, pick you up like in the middle.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Of the night, like in just that's insane.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Yeah, like literally like come in your room at like
three in the morning and just your parents would already
pack your bags and so it was just like one
of those things where it's like we're just ready to go.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
How many of these schools did that, like just literally yeah,
like maybe violently or at least traumatically kidnapping kids in
the middle of the night.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Yeah, it's so scary.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
One of my best friends, they're actually got almost every time,
you know, you would just like successful or you know,
quote unquote successfully get escorted there. But I had a
friend that was coming from Florida who got there like
two months after I did, and he this is like
unheard of, this like never would happen, but he got escorted.
(24:08):
They like took him in the middle of the night
and they went to the airport in like Miami or
whatever to get on the plane to fly to New York.
And in the airport, he like very smartly, was like
these people aren't my parents, they're kidnapping me, and like
made this huge scene, and you know, like the airport
(24:29):
police were like, hey, you like what's going on, and
they like showed them there's like paperwork that they have
to prove that, you know, like you're getting escorted or whatever,
and they were like it doesn't matter, Like we can't
have this scene happening here. You have to leave. And
so the escorts didn't know what to do, so they
just like dropped him back off like at his parents' house.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Wow wow. So but he eventually got there, they got him.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yeah, like two or three months later they got him,
and he just like walked back in the house and
like cursed his parents it's out, and then just went
back in his room and kept getting fucked up and
they didn't know what to do. And then when he
finally got escorted, like two or three months later, they
drove him the whole way.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
I was gonna ask, Yeah, that's a that's a situation.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
So once you were kind of in there, like what
was the first of all physically what was happening on
the property, and then like what were the structure of
the days.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
So you get there and because it's an adolescent program,
you're in school and it's like super structured. You like
wake up at six am. You have like a minute
to get out of bed. You have like twenty minutes
to get ready, and then you go up to chapel
because it was somewhat you know, religious based or whatever.
(25:48):
And then after chapel you go down and a breakfast
and then you're pretty much in school from like eight
am to like six pm or something. Yeah, so yeah,
you're either in classes, but it's also like like these
like work blocks or like peppered in, so like you'll
you know, go to math class and then for period
(26:10):
two you have laundry and you'll be you know, doing
everyone's laundry, and then you'll go to like history and
it's a really long day. Yeah, it was crazy. And
then you finish that, you go to dinner and then
there's like an hour of work study or study hall
whatever's right, and then you pray again and then you
(26:31):
go to sleep.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
So this is a Christian program, right, They.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Like claimed they were non religious, but it was pretty Christian.
I mean they had like a statue of like state
Saint Francis in the front, and like you know a
whole chapel on the campus and whatever.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
So I was reading they like separate this might not
be real. But they separate you guys into groups of
smaller called families called families. This is where it starts
getting even more culsy. Yeah, called families, And what is
that exactly?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah, so there are eight families and you get put
in these groups. It's kind of just random. It's like
what family has less than the others when you get
there and they're a bunch of staff. And then there
are two family leaders always like male and female, who
are like the head of your group. And you know,
(27:27):
when you're in school, you like mingle with everybody, and
you know, everybody's kind of like you know, dispersed in
the classes like together. But for all of the like
recreational stuff for meals or whatever, you're with your families.
And every meal they have something called table topics where
(27:50):
they will like get people up in front of the
family during the meal and then pretty much like yell
at them for something they're doing wrong. All of like
your a lot of your reprimanding and like trouble you
get into is like in the confines of your family, Like.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
And how big were the families.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
When I was there, it was like forty kids and
probably like ten or twelve staff members. Wow, for the
most part, it's about two or three staff members in
the family at like a given time, okay, because they're
not all like working the same day.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Got you? Got you?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
So was there like incentive to find things about your
fellow family members that they were doing wrong?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Oh? Yeah, that was like a huge part of snitching
was huge.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
What is it with these places?
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (28:47):
I think I think that's like maybe the easiest way
to brainwash. You know. It's like because at a certain
I think I I think people especially like you know,
because a lot of the times thatdynamic is like if
you're newer, you kind of fucking like hate the older
you know, kids there, because they're the ones like telling
you what to do. A lot of the time. I
(29:11):
think I'm like a pretty non confrontational person, so I
like really hated that aspect of it. So, you know,
like if I was ever in a position where i'd
like see like a newer person or like a kid
who was being defiant like doing some shit, I'd usually
just kind of be like, hey, come on, like don't
put me in the position where I have to like
(29:32):
tell you what to do. Like, let's just like keep
our head down and just get the fuck out of
here or whatever. So that was kind of like my technique.
But yeah, it was a lot of like a lot
of the times, the what they would get you up
about for these table topics, it would be kind of
like push to the staff from kids there, like oh
(29:52):
I saw him doing.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
X, Y or Z, and what kind of stuff would
it be any.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Like he's not paying at time, mentioning class, he's flirting.
You'd even get in trouble for masturbating, Like if they
found out you masturbated, they'd.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Oh god, God, So they want an entire population of
teenage people not to not to mansturbate.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Yeah. Cool, I've literally never had a wet dream until
I got there. I'm sure like it was just like
full on, like sexually shut this shit down. That's wild.
And then and then you get to a point where
you're so like brainwashed that if you masturbate, you will
tell on yourself.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Okay, we have to figure out how we get from
where you started there, Like, can you go back to
when you said snitching is probably one of the easiest
ways to brainwash people. What do you mean by that? Like,
because you're starting to give over your authority and not
have connections with other people.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Well, I think you, like you don't incentivize snitching. You
what's the opposite decentivized. I don't know what you You
pretty much say like, we are going to take shit
away from you unless we see you like participating in
our program quote unquote, you.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Know participation means snitching.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, I mean they don't like say it like that,
but it's like, why are you not holding this person accountable?
You know, like and then they'll start, you know, and
it's like small shit there goes a long way because
there's not like a lot of good shit. So it's
like you can't have dessert on Saturday, which is like
the night you get dessert, or like you can't call
your parents anymore. You get like one ten minute call
(31:34):
a week with your parents, and there's some there's a
staff member that just sits right next to you and
to listen to what you're saying, Oh my god, because
you know, they don't want you being like, hey, this
is really fucked up this place. Yeah, so you know,
or if you have like a family visit or they'll
take away you know, you being able to get mail
from your family or whatever.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
You know, Yeah, I mean it seems to me that
it would create a culture of constant fear, which, as
we know, keeps people controlled, no connecting and exactly and
isolated from each other. So you can't like band together
and demand better if you're all constantly headed against Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Oh totally.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
WHOA, I want to go back a little bit if
you don't mind. I don't mind because I I know
everybody else because we kind of glossed over that you
would be doing work in between classes.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
What would that look like and how intensive.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
It was more like chores but uh where you know,
like once or twice a week you'd have a laundry
period and then you'd have like a kitchen period where
you'd either be like preparing meals or like cleaning up
after meals or whatever. The only time where it was
kind of used as a as a punishment is if
(33:03):
and this was kind of one of their you know,
like their like last ditch effort sanctions they called it, uh,
which were pretty much just like punishments they would give out.
Was something called work sanction, So like if you kind
of were getting in trouble for a while and like
weren't changing according to their liking. They would put you
on this thing called work sanction, and you would stop
(33:26):
going this school and work instead, And that was like
much more like, you know, that was much more geared
to punishment. So like I was on work sanction twice,
like once in the winter and once in the summer.
So like in the winter, it would be like, we're
going to give you tasks to do that like need
to be done. But like if the tasks are finished,
(33:47):
it's not like all right, now you get to chill.
Like it would literally be like all right, now, go
into that field and just like shovel paths in the
snow like to nowhere, you know, or like carry these
buckets of rock up and down the hill or gravel,
you know, up and down the hill.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Did you feel like you deserved any of those?
Speaker 3 (34:07):
I definitely felt bad about what I was doing to
my parents, you know, Like I don't think my mom
was like the best mom, but I don't think she
deserved like the shit that I put her through. I
also think that they were just really bad at having
a relationship with their kids, you know, so I think
(34:29):
they obviously could have you know, I think I think
if I was a parent and my child was having
a hard time. I would probably try to talk to them.
I'd probably try to and hope that I had a
relationship with them before they started to kind of like
go off the rails. But that wasn't really like my
experience with my mom, you know, so, But yeah, I
(34:50):
mean I knew I was, like I didn't feel like
I can't believe that somebody would send me here. I
think I recognized like my parents, I'm sure don't know
how bad it is, and like it was unsustainable like
what I was doing, and honestly, like I was, I
really was like living so reckless that I think if
I didn't get sent there, I probably probably something serious
(35:14):
would have happened, either in terms of like getting arrested
or like dying or something.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
M Yeah, we've talked a little bit about rehabs in
this country and how there's no real standardization, so like
somebody can be desperately in need of rehab, but they
get sent somewhere that's like not evidence based, like abusive
for profit, like it is unfortunately a population that gets
exploited quite a bit. Yeah, you were in need, but
(35:43):
like you probably needed like legitimate program.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
And I think I think with the adolescent wants too,
because I don't think insurance covers adolescent treatment or at
least like I wasn't aware of any. And so like
all of these like institutions were like for profit and
sometimes like the state would have a budget to help
(36:07):
like kids like in need, and so like some of
the kids there, like you know, were lower income and
their parents wouldn't be able to afford something like that,
but the state would send them there instead of like
sending them the juvie or something like if they happened
to have like be in a school, you know, in
a school district with like a budget to do that
(36:27):
or something.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
I mean, what's coming up just super quickly is that
I don't know your background, but it sounds a little
bit like it was a little i don't know, like privileged.
Is that fair to say you're not okay? And so
now you're suddenly in a completely different world? Yeah, what
does that feel like?
Speaker 3 (36:47):
I mean, I'd never really done chores before that, but
it didn't feel for sure privileged background. But it didn't
feel like now I'm in a unprivileged background or like
that background was so privileged. It honestly just felt like
I was able to do everything I wanted to do,
and now people are telling me what to do.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Right, How did you feel about the other kids in
your family and beyond.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Yeah, I mean it kind of does become a family
of sorts. Like it's like you like, go there, you
have this experience that really nobody can relate to, and
when you get out, you really realize how institutionalized you are.
Like I was so fucking institutioned, like to the point
where it probably took like three or four years before
(37:36):
I even realized that that place was fucked up, like seriously,
Like I left there and I was like fully, like
I fully defended that place. Yeah, And it wasn't until
I was in a relationship with my first like longtime
partner where she was like, hey, that place was really
fucked up, and I was like really uh and then
(38:00):
and then there was just like a bunch of shit.
And then at that point I was sober and it
was kind of it was clear that there was more
help that I needed, and so I started going to therapy.
And that therapist also kind of simultaneously was like that
like she would like I would tell her thing and
she's like a very emotional person. She's like kind of
(38:21):
an alternative type there, you know, she's like a somatic
therapist or whatever. And so she would like sometimes we
be talking and she'd like start crying, and I'd be like,
why are you crying? I also was so emotionally shut down.
I was like, why the fuck are you crying? It's gross?
Speaker 1 (38:39):
How did they get you to this place where you
were fully in not even realizing it as a cult,
defending it? Like how long did that take?
Speaker 3 (38:47):
I think you? I think different people have different experiences.
I will say there are a bunch of kids that
went there that didn't fully buy in. And I wouldn't
say I fully bought in, like I said, like I didn't.
I really wasn't into like the snitching on people thing
like that made me uncomfortable, Like I just wanted to
like mind my own business type thing. But I think
(39:10):
a lot of the initial like how you get in
is because the people, like the kids that have been
there longer than you. You know, eventually you you know,
you're kind of alienated and like ostracized if you're the
one who's kind of like being defiant and acting up
and so at a certain point you usually start, you know,
(39:32):
like going along with the shit that they're telling you
to do because you don't want stuff taken away, and
then kind of simultaneously you want to not be like
ostracized by the others.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
So it's kind of like a survival mechanism that kicks
in and then you almost don't even know you that's
what happened.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
Oh totally.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah, Yeah, it makes sense that you would become compliant
over time, and then yeah, I have to like find
a reason for that to not be because of abuse.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah. I also so like I because I had gone
to that outpatient rehab. I had been introduced to AA
and there was a guy that would take me to
meetings occasionally, and he like literally wanted nothing from me,
Like he didn't care if I was sober, like didn't
(40:19):
want like never lectured me, didn't tell me like I,
this is what you need to do, this, this, and that.
I really just went to meetings with him, And it
was only a handful of times, but I really just
went to meetings with him to like appease my parents
and make it seem like I was like trying to
do better. But like that was kind of like I
don't know, there was some seed that was planted rh Yeah,
(40:41):
where I was just like, oh, like AA, whether I
want to be sober or not is kind of cool
because nobody's forcing me to do anything, and no one cares.
I mean people care, but nobody's like trying to control
like how I'm living my life or whether or not
I stay sober. They just want to help if I'm interested.
(41:01):
And so I recognized there that like this place is
not AA, and the majority of kids don't have that,
like didn't have that luxury, and so that actually was
what prevented like a lot of kids that lived there
like or went there, you know, left and got really
fucked up and like really kind of like got off track,
(41:24):
but like could not separate that place from AA. So
they were never able to like give it a chance,
which actually is why I think that like the death
rate from that place is so high, because you know,
like sometimes they would use like AA as like a punishment.
They would like make you like an AA. You know.
The kind of main piece of literature is like this
(41:46):
book called Alcoholics Anonymous or whatever, and it kind of
talks about alcoholism and kind of outlines like the Twelve
Steps and stuff. And in the program, like they would
make you like sometimes copy it from like the front
of the book to the back like handwrite it. You know,
they would kind of like bastardize like the AA program.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Right, So people have no tools when they're getting out.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Because they hate A I mean, like an place like
an AA meeting where you might usually go to land
if you're struggling with these things now is like and
like it's not palatable to you because you hate it
so much.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Yeah, and you've been through this thing at that point
that nobody probably can understand, so like, yeah, totally makes
sense that people would feel. So to contextualize what we're
talking about, how do we have the final tally on
how many people have committed suicide after attending this program
or overdosed?
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Yeah, I don't like it's always in flux, you know,
Like but I think like well over like probably like
one hundred thirty or one hundred and fifty.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
That's insane.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Yeah, and not not just from my time there, because
they were probably only like from the time I got
there till the time I left there are probably only
like four hundred kids that kind kind of passed through there.
But I would say from like the probably from like
the early two thousands till when it shut I think
it's shut down in like twenty fourteen or so, I
(43:11):
don't know.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
So that is not that long to be open to
produce that death. Like, oh my god, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
It's unfathomable. I mean, it sounds like there was a
lot of physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse. It just
sounds like it was ripe for everything.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Yeah, we'll leave part one there for now and come
back next week for part two.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
Megan, is, what's one of your takeaways from this first
half of this interview?
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Oh my god, I mean the snitching culture really stood
out to me as just this clear Culty way to
kind of breakdown the relationships between peers and get them
all moving their energy and their power upward towards leaders
who are terrifying.
Speaker 4 (43:59):
Yeah. I mean it's just like you just just in
every fucking.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
Group or like abusive school, like it's the same same
same thing. Tell on your tell on that person, tell
on that part, like you have to. They just really
want you to not trust the people around you and
to be on guard all the time, to stay constantly afraid.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
And yeah, and to be fair, I mean obviously I mean,
this is not the school that was for any of
these kids, but a lot of these kids probably needed help.
And uh, if one of them was going to do
something dangerous to themselves or something like, yeah, it would
be beneficial for an adult to know. But that's not
what we're really talking about here. This is like a
(44:40):
world that is built around you have to tell on
a certain amount of things every however many days to
like eat.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Right, and it would be infractions that aren't in fractions,
like looking at someone exactly, like I think that's the
bigg Like, yes, you're correct, Like if someone's actually doing
something like dangerous or or like egregiously against the goals,
not really.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Uh, infractions as you said, And it just builds this
horrible mistrust and that's the best way to get powers.
So kudos to these people for knowing their cult homework.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
And we really are just teaching people how to be
cult leaders, like you just listen to the show.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah, learn all the tactics. Yeah, I'm being very facetious.
Kudos not at all to the school because truly, and
we get into it more next week. I mean, so
many people have been lost because of the horrendous abuse
at the school. So yes, thank you so much Jenny
for speaking to us about it. And next week's episode
is really good as well.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
All right, well it's a holiday week, you have a
have as good a holiday as you guys can.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, try to make it through and as always, remember
to follow your guts, watch out for red flags.
Speaker 4 (45:54):
And never ever trust me.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Trust Me is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and
Steve Delemator.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
With special thanks to Stacy Para.
Speaker 4 (46:07):
And her theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,
Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at
trust Me Cult Podcast.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
I'm Oola Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham
Hicks on Twitter.
Speaker 4 (46:26):
Remember to rate and review and spread the word.
If you have your own story of being in a
cult or a high control group.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power
that you'd like to share.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Leave us a message on our hotline number at three
four seven eight six trust.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight, or.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Showed us an email at trust Me pod at gmail
dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Trust Me.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Trust Me.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I'm like a swat person.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I've never lied to you. I've never had a live.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
If you think that one person has all the answers, don't.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Welcome to trust Me.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
The podcast about cold and extreme belief and manipulation from
two thirty something year old juvenile delinquents who have.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Actually experienced it. I am Lola Blanc and I am
Megan Elizabeth.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Today our guest is Yoni Shereira, friend of the show
and survivor of the Family Foundation School, which was a
troubled teen sobriety school that became notorious for how many
of its former students died after going through the program.
In part one today, he's going to talk about what
he was like as a teenager, how he was genuinely
out of control when it came to drugs and alcohol,
(01:03):
and why his parents believed the school was the best
option to help him.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
He'll tell us about the religious undertones of the group,
how the students were separated into groups they called families,
the culture of constant fear and snitching, and why he
thinks so many kids died. Plus next week we'll talk
about some of the harrowing punishments the kids experienced and
what it felt like to finally leave. That's right.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
This was such a wild interview for unrelated reasons to
the content, just because I've known Yoni from this area
of my life, and you know Yoni from that area
of your life. And then I found out that he's
dating this person I know from this other area of Like,
this just was worlds colliding with this interview. This is
not relevant to our listeners, but it was cool.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
It was cool, and his story is really insane.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
It is really insane.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I had no idea that any of this was in
his history, and it's a very compelling story and I
think y'all will like it.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
So stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And before we hear it, Megan, can you tell me
your cultiest thing of the week.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I can. Last night I watched the new Netflix release
call who killed John Bennet Ramsey and I have never
seen well Number one, it's horrible. Don't watch it if
you ever want to sleep again in your entire life,
because it's so terrifying in that poor little girl. But
from a broader perspective, it really is so culty and
(02:26):
I don't want to give too many things away, but
you really see this like court of public opinion, pressure leaders.
At the midpoint, a new character comes in who's kind
of the anti cult of it all, and it's just
a fascinating, fascinating watch from the perspective of cults in
(02:48):
my opinion.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
M Yeah, yeah, I like, as you know, I miss
a lot of true crime dogs because I just like,
for whatever reason.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
You know, don't I don't want that much of it
in my head all the time.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, but this one does seem super super interesting. I'm
just like, I'm endlessly fascinated by the ways that reactions
to genuine injustices can can escalate themselves and themselves become
a problem.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
That makes me the people who are angry about this
child dying.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, is that what you're kind of talking
about totally? Yeahh I just find that endlessly fascinating, and
there's so many. Yeah, I'm curious to watch for sure, And.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
You know there are people that are bad guys, probably,
but you kind of empathize with them. You can tell
everybody's trying to do the right thing. Everybody thinks they
have the hmm. It's just really fascinating. So anyway, I
can't wait for you to watch it and discuss it.
But again, like all the trigger warnings in the world,
because I did not get any sleep last night, nor
(03:49):
will I ever again, what about you, what's the colziest
thing that happened to you this week?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I just was sort of doing a little dive into
till see Gabbard's connection to her cold twitch. I had
seen headlines about and there's always I feel like I
always see sensational headlines about hupl's connections to cold and cults,
and it's usually like kind of flimsy, but it is
actually interesting. So for anyone who doesn't know who told
(04:15):
Sy Gabbart is she's a politician from Hawaii who rose
to like national prominence when she ran for president actually
as a Democrat in twenty twenty. She ended up switching sides.
Now she's a full TRUMPISA, and she has been named
as the Director of National Intelligence for this new upcoming term. So,
you know, I dislike a lot of this woman's beliefs,
(04:37):
but it's interesting because a lot of them have parallels
to this group that she has grown up with and
been connected to. So they are called the Science of
Identity Foundation, and this man founded it in the sixties,
I believe, or in maybe the seventies. In the seventies,
he was sort of like an offshoot of the hay Krishnaz.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
This white guy is like, actually, I'm the guru and weird.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
You know, the different people have come forward who were
in the group or like her aunt has come like people,
different people have talked about it. She's been open about
the fact that Chris Butler, this man this is this
man's name is her like spiritual guide and guru. But
when you actually like learn about his like who he
is in this group, it's kind of he is like
(05:25):
the ultimate leader. He talks to God or like he
is the ultimate authority on all things. You don't really
do anything that he doesn't want you to do. He's
like a helladermophobe, extremely homophobic, extremely anti Islamic. So another
thing that I thought was interesting was that her entire
Oh yeah, it says people would feed him regularly, tend
to his laundry. Food couldn't be late, food had to
(05:48):
be hot. He'd swear at you if you would get
it wrong. If there was an article of clothing you
get that he doesn't use, like that's like sacred.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
She has been in it since she was a kid.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
When Tolsy Gabbard ran for president in twenty twenty, her
aunt said, basically her entire campaign staff were members of
this group. And there are people that have said, there's
a quote from someone saying, we're told his perspective and
what he says is one hundred percent accurate. So if
that's skewed, then whatever you listen to from him is
also going to be skewed. And basically the people are saying, like,
she would not like have this position in politics, if
(06:19):
he didn't want her to have this position in politics,
And it's this like it's kind of a goal of
his to have his people like in governments. So it
is really incredible how many like religious groups run by
sketchy ass leaders are like, all right, let's get y'all
into the government totally and I totally understand how at
least conspiracy theories, although I do not think it means
(06:39):
that Tolsi Gabbard is a part of a like shadowy
cult network. I think that would be silly, but it
does seem like she had that. They definitely she was.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
On a shadowy cult, but not in a shadowy cult
network network. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, yeah, they're just like a bunch of random cults
that happen to have their opinion.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Also, so many white people men starting cults in Hawaii.
It's never ceases to amaze me.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
So it is incredible. Also, I just have to add
his house was covered in tinfoil to keep out terms.
So that's super normal and sounds really effective too.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
That's super science space.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
That is new.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
So okay, well should we talk to Yoni.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Let's talk to Yannie.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Welcome Yoanie Shreira to trust me in person. Thank you
for being with us today.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Of course, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It's so exciting to have you. We both know you
in real life separately for unrelated reasons, oddly, and now
we get to talk to you about a piece of
your life that is maybe a little bit less fun
than the reasons that we know you, Yeah, start us
in your teen years? What kind of kid were you?
What was going on in your life before all this began.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
I usually say I was pretty much into everything besides fighting.
I was like not a fighting kid. I was a
pacifist who just loved to get fucked up, But wasn't
such a pacifist that I wouldn't like steal from you
even if you were my friend, which that was the
first kind of like significant trouble I got into. I
(08:19):
got kicked out of school for stealing. And Yeah, it
was just like a lot of drinking and getting high
and stealing and running away, Like I would go missing
for a number of days, which scared my parents, especially
going missing in La. Oh you were in La Yeah,
I grew up here. Yeah, so it was kind of
like a lot of that stuff.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Were your parents religious at all?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
What was your not religious? Religious?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
And when it was just kind of like regular discipline
isn't working, we got to like get only under control.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah. I mean I also had two parents that were
very different in regards to like their parenting style, Like
my dad was super passive and my mom was like
like my mom I would describe as probably like the
most anxious person I know, and that's saying a lot
because I know a lot of anxious people, but like
she is like insanely anxious, and I think she kind
(09:11):
of had somewhat unstable childhood and so she like always
she like tried to micromanage as much as possible.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Did you ever get arrested or anything?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Actually I only got arrested once in sobriety for something
very uncool. There were these projects by my old place
in Brooklyn, and we had no air conditioning, no windows,
we had like nothing, like it was just like a
brick box that we lived in, and we tried to
like hop the fence. There was like this public pool
(09:41):
in the center of these projects, and we got arrested
at like too.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Were going to a pool.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yeah, So.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
The rebellious days, it's always so interesting to me because
I was not raised in a big city, and I
know that this happens in small towns and whatever, but
I wasn't even introduced to alcohol clubs like seventeen, and
so like when I hear about little kids getting into
this level of them as chief, I'm like, damn, that's
so intense, Like my brain would have broken immediately to
(10:12):
be on drugs.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
When I was in high school, I was a good
I mean I've still never drank guess you know, yeah,
but I would hang around people who would, and I.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Thought it was so cool.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
I've ever drank.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
No, I've never drank.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Wow, Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
I mean it's weird.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, it was probably brother Oka, but that wasn't why
it was started in Mormonism. And then I just I
left Mormonism and I was like I don't know, yeah,
why this doesn't feel like a thing that I I'll do.
And now it's like so built up because I'm like
I'd like to try wine, but now it's so built
up that it feels like it's got to be like
the perfect occasion, which has never happened because I haven't
(10:47):
gotten into sundance yet.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So but like even yeah, even like I was like
sixteen and reading Ya novels where I was like, I
can't wait till I get my first French kids. I
don't know, I'm just saying. I was like, it's impressive
to me in a bad way and we might have
to take this part out, but like, wow, a bad boy. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
(11:11):
it's like kind of cool.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
I would have also thought that, yeah, I loved it.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Well, I think like I don't know why, but I
always even like as a first of all, the first
time I drank, it was like one of those things
where I didn't It wasn't like I was going around
being like I can't wait to drink. It was literally
like it was given to me at a bar mitzvah
after party one time, damn, and which like that is
(11:39):
not regular. Most people like don't have bar mitzvah after parties.
But my best friend Hanky, his brother, Yeah, his brother,
like we were in private school, like going from seventh
to eighth grade, and his brother was like like going
in his senior year at the local public school, and
he had like a bunch of his friends over one
(12:00):
night and after his brother, Hanky's bar mitzvah, and his
brother got to invite like two or three of his friends,
and so I got to go and they literally just
like fed us drinks all night, and I got like
blacked out, and it was like really like one of
those things where it's like WHOA, Like what a shame?
I didn't do this sooner? And I'm gonna do this
(12:20):
like every day for the rest of my life.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
But I felt after blacking out.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Okay, that night, I just had a lot of fun.
But then like a few days later, we smoked weed
for the first time, okay, and that was like the
first time I was like coherent. So that was the
first time I was like I'm gonna do.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
This, like right right right, yeah, okay. And your parents
were just like oh God, and.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Your mom, I mean, what a nightmare. It's like her
worst dream.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Oh totally yeah. And I think like I didn't have
like the foresight of being like, oh, if I'm like
a little like more chill about this, I can probably
get away with more. I just was like, I don't know, rebellious,
and so I just got into trouble immediately that first night,
they like shaved off my eyebrow, and I remember my
(13:03):
mom picked me up and she like started sobbing. Oh, now,
how are you gonna show up to all these other
bar mits? Was you have no eyebrow? It was very
much like the optics of everything.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
That's so, I mean, that's I love where her priorities are.
How are you going to go to the BARMT says, So.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
How old were you when they were like, all right,
we need to take some real action.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
The first time I ever got sent to an outpatient,
I was fourteen, which was like ridiculous, Like, in hindsight,
that was pretty ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
And it also an outpatient like sobriety okay.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Like and like at that point, I pretty much had
no friends that like drank or got high like I did,
so I didn't have It was like a lot of
doing it by myself. And then going to that outpatient
was the first time I met people that, you know,
like to get fucked up like I did, and.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
So it always like it kind of makes it worse.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, oh totally yeah, Like.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Oh damn, you have access to even more drugs.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Yeah, let's go. That was like where I got my
drug dealer. Moving forward, like yeah, yeah, Like I remember
I brought one of my friends from that rehab to
like my private school Halloween party and like every parent
was like totally freaked out by him. Wow. It was
just like, yeah, it just introduced me to people that
I never would have or not never, but I just
(14:26):
at that point have interacted with Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
And so at what point does the Family Foundation school
seem like the best option to your parents?
Speaker 3 (14:37):
So then I'd gotten kicked out of a school, and
then I went to a new school and I tried
to kind of like get my shit together because I
also at that time got a girlfriend who was like
kind of like straight laced or whatever, and you know,
she like I don't know. I was like, Oh, I
want to like do better, you know, and so I'm going.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
To change for you.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
I was like fifteen, yeah, and ready to have a
whole new me, and I like tried to join the
football team and stuff like that. Oh do the whole
like straight lace person thing. And I think it like
literally lasted three weeks and then I kind of not
long after that, dropped out of school. And then my
(15:21):
parents started looking for places to send me.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
And how old were you at that point?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
It was like right before I turned sixteen?
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Okay, so how did they even find the school because
you're in Los Angeles and the school is across the country.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Where was it?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
It was in the cat Skills in Upsey, New York.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Okay, yeah, yeah, So how did they even come in
contact with us? Through someone's bar us far or.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
What actually close? Through a rabbi?
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Okay, this rabbit rabbi is like I know a place.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Yeah, yeah, And what's funny is my parents, Like my
parents are the most like culturally Jewish people in the world,
but like not religious at all, Like my dad. I
just had dinner with my dad last night, and for
like the fifth dinner in a row, he made it
a point to talk to me about how much he
doesn't believe in God. But uh, yeah, their dad. Yeah, yeah.
(16:14):
They wanted to send me to a place in la
that was like a Jewish recovery program or something, but
you had to be eighteen to go. And the rabbi
of that place, I guess, had like knew someone that
worked at the like was like an administrative person at
the school or something, and so he was the one
(16:35):
who recommended it.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Okay, And what did you know about the school going
into it?
Speaker 3 (16:40):
I literally knew nothing.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
They're just like, you're going to move to a new school,
did you? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Did you? Did you or did you have the kidnap experience? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (16:48):
How did you? So? I didn't have the kidnap experience.
The way that they got me there was so at
that point my mom and I were my I mean,
my dad and I weren't close, but my dad and
I didn't really like fight much. Uh, and my mom
and I like could not be around each other and
like not fight, even to the point where at one
(17:09):
point my dad said like, hey, what if you and
I like moved somewhere for a while. And they had
phrased it as like, how would you feel about going
to a boarding school? And when I was in that
outpatient program, there was a girl that I knew there
that had gone to a boarding school in Vermont, and
she like talked about it like it was the best
thing in the world. Like she was like, Oh, we
(17:30):
would just go into the woods and do mushrooms all
day and like it was the shit. If you could
ever go to a boarding school, you should go. And
I was like a year or two before. Yeah, And
I was like when they mentioned boarding school, I was like, oh,
it sounds pretty sick. I get to like not be
around them at all and just like get fucked up.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, just like my parents out in the Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Yeah. And so I said I'll go if you could
smoke cigarettes and if there are girls there, like that
was my only criteria, and they were like, oh, yeah, sure, yeah,
you definitely can. And so my dad took me. They
were like, oh, we found a place in New York
(18:13):
and I just thought like New York City or something.
And we got there, and I mean at this point
in my life, I was like truly like fucked up.
Every moment I was like awake. And so we got
to New York. I was like fucked up on the plane.
When we landed, I was like just residually fucked up.
Like I was just like so hungover that Like I
(18:34):
remember we got in the rental car and I like
woke up like three hours later and we were driving
down the driveway and I was like looked around and
I was like, oh, this is not New York City.
But that was how like I got there.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Paint the picture of what you wake up to, what
your drive into, what does it look like?
Speaker 3 (19:03):
It was actually like insanely beautiful. It was like in
this valley in upstate New York, and I got there
at the end of fall, and it was like incredibly picturesque,
like uh, like the foliage the valley there was like
a little like pond or whatever. It was really beautiful.
But I had no I like truly was like so hungover.
(19:27):
I just recognized like this is I think the only
thing I felt in that moment was like this is
unfamiliar and it's really gray. And we got in and
there's this guy Bob who looked like a clown, like
actually like he looked like he had this really like
bulbous nose that was red and like the reddest face
(19:47):
and he wouldn't stop smiling for.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah, he was really weird. And he was like all right,
let's let's do your intake and and then my dad
started crying and I remember being like really embarrassed that
he was crying. He was crying and he went to
give me a hug, and I was just like yeah, okay,
bye uh and I went into the like locker room area,
(20:15):
and then I realized like, oh, this.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Is like not I'm not going to be horseback, right.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Yeah. Yeah. There was like the strip search thing and
the life shampoo and then like you know, checking all
your ship and then they give you someone called something
called like a buddy, which is like like a more
senior person there who just like takes you around like
you're not allowed to be by yourself there for the
(20:42):
first like two months two months. Yeah, whoa like even
to the point it's called like shadow to the point
where like if you go to the bathroom, they go
in with you.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Oh no, oh my god. So this is like a prison,
so they're strip searching you.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
They strip search you. Yeah. And I just remember the
first moment where it really kind of started to sink
in was we were walking out of the out of
the locker room and the guy who is my buddy
was like kind of going through this list of rules
and I literally couldn't tell you a word he said.
And then he said yeah, and it's an eighteen month
(21:20):
minimum program. And I was like, wait would you say?
And he's like, oh, yeah, it's like an eighteen month
minimum program. And it like literally felt like someone like
kicked me in the stomach. Oh my god. And I
was like, I think I was shocked then. And then
for like the rest of the week, I was like,
all right, don't cry in public. Don't cry in public.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I mean, as somebody who's had their own really fun
relationship with drugs and alcohol, are you now detoxing off
of this, like by yourself no help or are you okay?
Like what does that look like?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
At that point, I hadn't really been like I wasn't
I mean, I was drinking every day, but I wasn't
doing any hard drugs at that point in my life.
And I think I was just like so like shocked
by being there that I honestly I couldn't even tell
you like what I was like physically feeling at all.
(22:20):
Like I think I was just like so stunned and
just like depressed.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
But there was no like protocol of were giving you
some medicine or like helping this happen.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Like it's not a legitimate at that place now, wow.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
And there were occasionally kids that were there. I mean
almost everybody there had like substance abuse issues, and like
you know, we're there for like drinking or doing coke
or something like that. But occasionally there'd be someone there
that was maybe detoxing off of something that would be
like more dangerous.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Usually they would actually just leave, Like they would get
there and they'd be like, oh, this person's like physical detoxes,
you know, more dangerous than we can really handle. And
then they'll get some sense of well.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
That's I guess that's something.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yeah, And they were kidnapping a lot of these people,
can you just say, yeah, yeah, a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yeah, they had like an escort program where they would
come and have like two or three guys, depending on
how big you were, pick you up like in the middle.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Of the night, like in just that's insane.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Yeah, like literally like come in your room at like
three in the morning and just your parents would already
pack your bags and so it was just like one
of those things where it's like we're just ready to go.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
How many of these schools did that, like just literally yeah,
like maybe violently or at least traumatically kidnapping kids in
the middle of the night.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Yeah, it's so scary.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
One of my best friends, they're actually got almost every time,
you know, you would just like successful or you know,
quote unquote successfully get escorted there. But I had a
friend that was coming from Florida who got there like
two months after I did, and he this is like
unheard of, this like never would happen, but he got escorted.
(24:08):
They like took him in the middle of the night
and they went to the airport in like Miami or
whatever to get on the plane to fly to New York.
And in the airport, he like very smartly, was like
these people aren't my parents, they're kidnapping me, and like
made this huge scene, and you know, like the airport
(24:29):
police were like, hey, you like what's going on, and
they like showed them there's like paperwork that they have
to prove that, you know, like you're getting escorted or whatever,
and they were like it doesn't matter, Like we can't
have this scene happening here. You have to leave. And
so the escorts didn't know what to do, so they
just like dropped him back off like at his parents' house.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Wow wow. So but he eventually got there, they got him.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yeah, like two or three months later they got him,
and he just like walked back in the house and
like cursed his parents it's out, and then just went
back in his room and kept getting fucked up and
they didn't know what to do. And then when he
finally got escorted, like two or three months later, they
drove him the whole way.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
I was gonna ask, Yeah, that's a that's a situation.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
So once you were kind of in there, like what
was the first of all physically what was happening on
the property, and then like what were the structure of
the days.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
So you get there and because it's an adolescent program,
you're in school and it's like super structured. You like
wake up at six am. You have like a minute
to get out of bed. You have like twenty minutes
to get ready, and then you go up to chapel
because it was somewhat you know, religious based or whatever.
(25:48):
And then after chapel you go down and a breakfast
and then you're pretty much in school from like eight
am to like six pm or something. Yeah, so yeah,
you're either in classes, but it's also like like these
like work blocks or like peppered in, so like you'll
you know, go to math class and then for period
(26:10):
two you have laundry and you'll be you know, doing
everyone's laundry, and then you'll go to like history and
it's a really long day. Yeah, it was crazy. And
then you finish that, you go to dinner and then
there's like an hour of work study or study hall
whatever's right, and then you pray again and then you
(26:31):
go to sleep.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
So this is a Christian program, right, They.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Like claimed they were non religious, but it was pretty Christian.
I mean they had like a statue of like state
Saint Francis in the front, and like you know a
whole chapel on the campus and whatever.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
So I was reading they like separate this might not
be real. But they separate you guys into groups of
smaller called families called families. This is where it starts
getting even more culsy. Yeah, called families, And what is
that exactly?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah, so there are eight families and you get put
in these groups. It's kind of just random. It's like
what family has less than the others when you get
there and they're a bunch of staff. And then there
are two family leaders always like male and female, who
are like the head of your group. And you know,
(27:27):
when you're in school, you like mingle with everybody, and
you know, everybody's kind of like you know, dispersed in
the classes like together. But for all of the like
recreational stuff for meals or whatever, you're with your families.
And every meal they have something called table topics where
(27:50):
they will like get people up in front of the
family during the meal and then pretty much like yell
at them for something they're doing wrong. All of like
your a lot of your reprimanding and like trouble you
get into is like in the confines of your family, Like.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
And how big were the families.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
When I was there, it was like forty kids and
probably like ten or twelve staff members. Wow, for the
most part, it's about two or three staff members in
the family at like a given time, okay, because they're
not all like working the same day.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Got you? Got you?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
So was there like incentive to find things about your
fellow family members that they were doing wrong?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Oh? Yeah, that was like a huge part of snitching
was huge.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
What is it with these places?
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (28:47):
I think I think that's like maybe the easiest way
to brainwash. You know. It's like because at a certain
I think I I think people especially like you know,
because a lot of the times thatdynamic is like if
you're newer, you kind of fucking like hate the older
you know, kids there, because they're the ones like telling
you what to do. A lot of the time. I
(29:11):
think I'm like a pretty non confrontational person, so I
like really hated that aspect of it. So, you know,
like if I was ever in a position where i'd
like see like a newer person or like a kid
who was being defiant like doing some shit, I'd usually
just kind of be like, hey, come on, like don't
put me in the position where I have to like
(29:32):
tell you what to do. Like, let's just like keep
our head down and just get the fuck out of
here or whatever. So that was kind of like my technique.
But yeah, it was a lot of like a lot
of the times, the what they would get you up
about for these table topics, it would be kind of
like push to the staff from kids there, like oh
(29:52):
I saw him doing.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
X, Y or Z, and what kind of stuff would
it be any.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Like he's not paying at time, mentioning class, he's flirting.
You'd even get in trouble for masturbating, Like if they
found out you masturbated, they'd.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Oh god, God, So they want an entire population of
teenage people not to not to mansturbate.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Yeah. Cool, I've literally never had a wet dream until
I got there. I'm sure like it was just like
full on, like sexually shut this shit down. That's wild.
And then and then you get to a point where
you're so like brainwashed that if you masturbate, you will
tell on yourself.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Okay, we have to figure out how we get from
where you started there, Like, can you go back to
when you said snitching is probably one of the easiest
ways to brainwash people. What do you mean by that? Like,
because you're starting to give over your authority and not
have connections with other people.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Well, I think you, like you don't incentivize snitching. You
what's the opposite decentivized. I don't know what you You
pretty much say like, we are going to take shit
away from you unless we see you like participating in
our program quote unquote, you.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Know participation means snitching.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, I mean they don't like say it like that,
but it's like, why are you not holding this person accountable?
You know, like and then they'll start, you know, and
it's like small shit there goes a long way because
there's not like a lot of good shit. So it's
like you can't have dessert on Saturday, which is like
the night you get dessert, or like you can't call
your parents anymore. You get like one ten minute call
(31:34):
a week with your parents, and there's some there's a
staff member that just sits right next to you and
to listen to what you're saying, Oh my god, because
you know, they don't want you being like, hey, this
is really fucked up this place. Yeah, so you know,
or if you have like a family visit or they'll
take away you know, you being able to get mail
from your family or whatever.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
You know, Yeah, I mean it seems to me that
it would create a culture of constant fear, which, as
we know, keeps people controlled, no connecting and exactly and
isolated from each other. So you can't like band together
and demand better if you're all constantly headed against Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Oh totally.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
WHOA, I want to go back a little bit if
you don't mind. I don't mind because I I know
everybody else because we kind of glossed over that you
would be doing work in between classes.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
What would that look like and how intensive.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
It was more like chores but uh where you know,
like once or twice a week you'd have a laundry
period and then you'd have like a kitchen period where
you'd either be like preparing meals or like cleaning up
after meals or whatever. The only time where it was
kind of used as a as a punishment is if
(33:03):
and this was kind of one of their you know,
like their like last ditch effort sanctions they called it, uh,
which were pretty much just like punishments they would give out.
Was something called work sanction, So like if you kind
of were getting in trouble for a while and like
weren't changing according to their liking. They would put you
on this thing called work sanction, and you would stop
(33:26):
going this school and work instead, And that was like
much more like, you know, that was much more geared
to punishment. So like I was on work sanction twice,
like once in the winter and once in the summer.
So like in the winter, it would be like, we're
going to give you tasks to do that like need
to be done. But like if the tasks are finished,
(33:47):
it's not like all right, now you get to chill.
Like it would literally be like all right, now, go
into that field and just like shovel paths in the
snow like to nowhere, you know, or like carry these
buckets of rock up and down the hill or gravel,
you know, up and down the hill.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Did you feel like you deserved any of those?
Speaker 3 (34:07):
I definitely felt bad about what I was doing to
my parents, you know, Like I don't think my mom
was like the best mom, but I don't think she
deserved like the shit that I put her through. I
also think that they were just really bad at having
a relationship with their kids, you know, so I think
(34:29):
they obviously could have you know, I think I think
if I was a parent and my child was having
a hard time. I would probably try to talk to them.
I'd probably try to and hope that I had a
relationship with them before they started to kind of like
go off the rails. But that wasn't really like my
experience with my mom, you know, so, But yeah, I
(34:50):
mean I knew I was, like I didn't feel like
I can't believe that somebody would send me here. I
think I recognized like my parents, I'm sure don't know
how bad it is, and like it was unsustainable like
what I was doing, and honestly, like I was, I
really was like living so reckless that I think if
I didn't get sent there, I probably probably something serious
(35:14):
would have happened, either in terms of like getting arrested
or like dying or something.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
M Yeah, we've talked a little bit about rehabs in
this country and how there's no real standardization, so like
somebody can be desperately in need of rehab, but they
get sent somewhere that's like not evidence based, like abusive
for profit, like it is unfortunately a population that gets
exploited quite a bit. Yeah, you were in need, but
(35:43):
like you probably needed like legitimate program.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
And I think I think with the adolescent wants too,
because I don't think insurance covers adolescent treatment or at
least like I wasn't aware of any. And so like
all of these like institutions were like for profit and
sometimes like the state would have a budget to help
(36:07):
like kids like in need, and so like some of
the kids there, like you know, were lower income and
their parents wouldn't be able to afford something like that,
but the state would send them there instead of like
sending them the juvie or something like if they happened
to have like be in a school, you know, in
a school district with like a budget to do that
(36:27):
or something.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
I mean, what's coming up just super quickly is that
I don't know your background, but it sounds a little
bit like it was a little i don't know, like privileged.
Is that fair to say you're not okay? And so
now you're suddenly in a completely different world? Yeah, what
does that feel like?
Speaker 3 (36:47):
I mean, I'd never really done chores before that, but
it didn't feel for sure privileged background. But it didn't
feel like now I'm in a unprivileged background or like
that background was so privileged. It honestly just felt like
I was able to do everything I wanted to do,
and now people are telling me what to do.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Right, How did you feel about the other kids in
your family and beyond.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Yeah, I mean it kind of does become a family
of sorts. Like it's like you like, go there, you
have this experience that really nobody can relate to, and
when you get out, you really realize how institutionalized you are.
Like I was so fucking institutioned, like to the point
where it probably took like three or four years before
(37:36):
I even realized that that place was fucked up, like seriously,
Like I left there and I was like fully, like
I fully defended that place. Yeah, And it wasn't until
I was in a relationship with my first like longtime
partner where she was like, hey, that place was really
fucked up, and I was like really uh and then
(38:00):
and then there was just like a bunch of shit.
And then at that point I was sober and it
was kind of it was clear that there was more
help that I needed, and so I started going to therapy.
And that therapist also kind of simultaneously was like that
like she would like I would tell her thing and
she's like a very emotional person. She's like kind of
(38:21):
an alternative type there, you know, she's like a somatic
therapist or whatever. And so she would like sometimes we
be talking and she'd like start crying, and I'd be like,
why are you crying? I also was so emotionally shut down.
I was like, why the fuck are you crying? It's gross?
Speaker 1 (38:39):
How did they get you to this place where you
were fully in not even realizing it as a cult,
defending it? Like how long did that take?
Speaker 3 (38:47):
I think you? I think different people have different experiences.
I will say there are a bunch of kids that
went there that didn't fully buy in. And I wouldn't
say I fully bought in, like I said, like I didn't.
I really wasn't into like the snitching on people thing
like that made me uncomfortable, Like I just wanted to
like mind my own business type thing. But I think
(39:10):
a lot of the initial like how you get in
is because the people, like the kids that have been
there longer than you. You know, eventually you you know,
you're kind of alienated and like ostracized if you're the
one who's kind of like being defiant and acting up
and so at a certain point you usually start, you know,
(39:32):
like going along with the shit that they're telling you
to do because you don't want stuff taken away, and
then kind of simultaneously you want to not be like
ostracized by the others.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
So it's kind of like a survival mechanism that kicks
in and then you almost don't even know you that's
what happened.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
Oh totally.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah, Yeah, it makes sense that you would become compliant
over time, and then yeah, I have to like find
a reason for that to not be because of abuse.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah. I also so like I because I had gone
to that outpatient rehab. I had been introduced to AA
and there was a guy that would take me to
meetings occasionally, and he like literally wanted nothing from me,
Like he didn't care if I was sober, like didn't
(40:19):
want like never lectured me, didn't tell me like I,
this is what you need to do, this, this, and that.
I really just went to meetings with him, And it
was only a handful of times, but I really just
went to meetings with him to like appease my parents
and make it seem like I was like trying to
do better. But like that was kind of like I
don't know, there was some seed that was planted rh Yeah,
(40:41):
where I was just like, oh, like AA, whether I
want to be sober or not is kind of cool
because nobody's forcing me to do anything, and no one cares.
I mean people care, but nobody's like trying to control
like how I'm living my life or whether or not
I stay sober. They just want to help if I'm interested.
(41:01):
And so I recognized there that like this place is
not AA, and the majority of kids don't have that,
like didn't have that luxury, and so that actually was
what prevented like a lot of kids that lived there
like or went there, you know, left and got really
fucked up and like really kind of like got off track,
(41:24):
but like could not separate that place from AA. So
they were never able to like give it a chance,
which actually is why I think that like the death
rate from that place is so high, because you know,
like sometimes they would use like AA as like a punishment.
They would like make you like an AA. You know.
The kind of main piece of literature is like this
(41:46):
book called Alcoholics Anonymous or whatever, and it kind of
talks about alcoholism and kind of outlines like the Twelve
Steps and stuff. And in the program, like they would
make you like sometimes copy it from like the front
of the book to the back like handwrite it. You know,
they would kind of like bastardize like the AA program.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Right, So people have no tools when they're getting out.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Because they hate A I mean, like an place like
an AA meeting where you might usually go to land
if you're struggling with these things now is like and
like it's not palatable to you because you hate it
so much.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Yeah, and you've been through this thing at that point
that nobody probably can understand, so like, yeah, totally makes
sense that people would feel. So to contextualize what we're
talking about, how do we have the final tally on
how many people have committed suicide after attending this program
or overdosed?
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Yeah, I don't like it's always in flux, you know,
Like but I think like well over like probably like
one hundred thirty or one hundred and fifty.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
That's insane.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Yeah, and not not just from my time there, because
they were probably only like from the time I got
there till the time I left there are probably only
like four hundred kids that kind kind of passed through there.
But I would say from like the probably from like
the early two thousands till when it shut I think
it's shut down in like twenty fourteen or so, I
(43:11):
don't know.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
So that is not that long to be open to
produce that death. Like, oh my god, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
It's unfathomable. I mean, it sounds like there was a
lot of physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse. It just
sounds like it was ripe for everything.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Yeah, we'll leave part one there for now and come
back next week for part two.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
Megan, is, what's one of your takeaways from this first
half of this interview?
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Oh my god, I mean the snitching culture really stood
out to me as just this clear Culty way to
kind of breakdown the relationships between peers and get them
all moving their energy and their power upward towards leaders
who are terrifying.
Speaker 4 (43:59):
Yeah. I mean it's just like you just just in
every fucking.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
Group or like abusive school, like it's the same same
same thing. Tell on your tell on that person, tell
on that part, like you have to. They just really
want you to not trust the people around you and
to be on guard all the time, to stay constantly afraid.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
And yeah, and to be fair, I mean obviously I mean,
this is not the school that was for any of
these kids, but a lot of these kids probably needed help.
And uh, if one of them was going to do
something dangerous to themselves or something like, yeah, it would
be beneficial for an adult to know. But that's not
what we're really talking about here. This is like a
(44:40):
world that is built around you have to tell on
a certain amount of things every however many days to
like eat.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Right, and it would be infractions that aren't in fractions,
like looking at someone exactly, like I think that's the
bigg Like, yes, you're correct, Like if someone's actually doing
something like dangerous or or like egregiously against the goals,
not really.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Uh, infractions as you said, And it just builds this
horrible mistrust and that's the best way to get powers.
So kudos to these people for knowing their cult homework.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
And we really are just teaching people how to be
cult leaders, like you just listen to the show.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah, learn all the tactics. Yeah, I'm being very facetious.
Kudos not at all to the school because truly, and
we get into it more next week. I mean, so
many people have been lost because of the horrendous abuse
at the school. So yes, thank you so much Jenny
for speaking to us about it. And next week's episode
is really good as well.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
All right, well it's a holiday week, you have a
have as good a holiday as you guys can.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, try to make it through and as always, remember
to follow your guts, watch out for red flags.
Speaker 4 (45:54):
And never ever trust me.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Trust Me is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and
Steve Delemator.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
With special thanks to Stacy Para.
Speaker 4 (46:07):
And her theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,
Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at
trust Me Cult Podcast.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
I'm Oola Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham
Hicks on Twitter.
Speaker 4 (46:26):
Remember to rate and review and spread the word.
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