July 5, 2024 • 42 mins
Hi Guys, welcome back to TV Reload. Thank you for clicking or downloading on today’s episode with Asher Keddie and David Wenham who are both featured in the new Paramount + series Fake.
The 8 part limited series is based on a true story. When magazine-features-writer Birdie Bell meets successful grazier Joe Burt on a dating app she believes she's found her perfect match but as the relationship intensifies Birdie begins to feel her boyfriend isn't all he has led her to believe.
The scary fact is that men in the real world are doing this everyday and sadly this is becoming a common story. This series is based on a book by author Stephanie Wood and the way in which the show unpacks psychological fantastic is ground breaking work for the team of content creators that bring this series to life.
The whole series is available to view on Paramount + right now and I don’t say this lightly… sign up and steam this show today - it is phenomenal. Get on board now before everyone starts talking about it. You will be on the edge of your couch and utterly enthralled.
At this point of the TV Reload intro I usually give you a summery of my guests work but Asher Keddie and David Wenham need no introduction because we have been in their audience for decades.
- I will talk about how Asher and David created these characters. From how much they borrowed from the book? What David thinks about his characters lying and if Asher was able to watch back her most intense performance to date?
- We will unpack the obsession of True Crime, what this says about us and why audiences now demand smarter scripted drama!
- There is an opportunity to talk with Asher about her roles on Offspring and Love My Way and David will reveal a shocking truth about his on-screen roles. Which is fascinating to hear - considering his filmography.
- You will find out if there will be a second series of Fake… We will talk about the laws that need to be implemented on falsifying and manipulating people in the dating world.
There is so much to talk about with Asher and David. So sit back and relax as we unpack the complicated world of Fake now on Paramount +!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's in the news today, but it was actually on
TV Reload.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The podcast last week They're Life.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey guys, welcome back to TV Reload. I want to
thank you for clicking and downloading on today's episode with
Asher Ketty and David Wenham, who are both featured in
the new Paramount Plus series Fake. The eight part limited
series is based on a true story when magazine feature
writer Bertie Bell meets success for grazier Joe Bert on
a dating app and believes that she has found her
(00:25):
perfect match. But as the relationship intensifies, Bertie begins to
feel her boyfriend isn't all that he has led her
to believe. The scary fact is that men in the
real world are doing this every day, and sadly, this
is becoming a common story. The series is based on
a book by the author Stephanie Wood, and the way
in which the show unpacks psychological fantastica is groundbreaking work
(00:49):
for the team of content creators that bring you this series.
The whole series is available to view on Paramount Plus
right now, and I don't say this lightly. Sign up
and stream this show right now. It is phenomenal. At
this point of the podcast, I usually intro my guests
and give you a bit of a summary. But my
guest today Asha Kenny and David Wenem need no introduction
(01:10):
because we have been in their audience for decades. I
will talk about how Asher and David created these characters from,
how much they borrowed from the book, what David thinks
about his characters lying, and if Asher was able to
watch back her most intense performance to date. We will
unpack the obsession of true crime, what this says about us,
(01:30):
and why audiences now demand smarter scripted dramas. There is
an opportunity to talk to Asher about her roles on
Offspring and Love My Way, which is very exciting for me.
And David will reveal a shocking truth about his on
screen roles, which is fascinating to hear considering his filmography.
You will find out if there is going to be
a second series of Fake. We will talk about the
(01:53):
laws that need to be implemented on falsifying and manipulating
people in the dating world. Guys, there is so much
to unpack with Asher and David today, so sit back
and relax as we unpack the complicated world of Fake,
which is now on Paramount Plus thank you both for
doing this and for talking to me. I am such
a big fan of both of you and this series
(02:14):
is absolutely incredible.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Thank you, guys.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I have a friend of mine who works in the
media and he rang me one afternoon and said that
he needed to write a feature the next day and
was looking for ideas. And I said to him, You've
got to write about Fake because I'd watched the screeners.
I watched it all in one go, all eight episodes
in one sitting, and I said, you have to watch it.
It is so compelling. Everyone in Australia is going to
(02:38):
be talking about it. Get on board, get ahead of
the story. And he said, could I say that it's
Australia's baby Reindeer. And I was like, yes, yes, it is.
It is. It's Australia's baby Reindeer because everyone is going
to watch it all in one.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Go oh gosh, that's good.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
So people need to cancel all of their subscriptions. I
need to get Paramour Plus.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
That's right, and put aside one night where they don't
sleep and just watch it all.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yes, how did you both find watching the show? You
guys were there creating these characters and reading these lines.
But then have you were you able to watch it
as a viewer? What was that like?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Well, I don't know if Day's watched it.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
No, I don't. I hardly ever watch my own work.
I don't watch stuff. Unfortunately. I wish I could, because
I'm hypercritical and so I can't be completely objective and
just watch something and enjoy it for what it is. Yeah,
I've always have my critical faculties on, so I'm not
a consumer. I don't watch anything. Really. I read. I
(03:38):
know that it's sort of bamboozles people, but yeah, that's
just me. I'm a book weirder.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Well, I read mostly too, that's my entertainment.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
I think we are actually very similar in our process
doing the actual work.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
That's a bit that we like doing it.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
It is the true thing, that's the process being enjoyed
the most, right, So, and this says was incredible together
was creatively it was just so so satisfying, wonderful. But
we are a little different in that spect in post production.
So I'm quite okay to watch something I didn't used
to be. I used to be very much like David.
(04:16):
Oh god, no, I the thought of watching myself was mortifying.
I would just pull myself apart, and I want to
go back and do it again, and what would be
the point of watching something? For many years, I carried
on like that and thought, I'm just it's best not
to see, you know, because the process is what's that's
the fun part. But I've thought about this. I think
doing Offspring for all those years helped me to be
(04:37):
a little.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Bit more objective.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
I mean, frankly, I just got you know you're watching
if you're in every scene and you're sort of.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
A part of well. I wasn't a producer on that show.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
I was really involved in you know, early cuts, and
it was important to me to watch it. I think
I became a little more relaxed about it, which is
kind of good because I'm with the show like Fate
I was producing, and I really do need to watch it.
I need to sit in the carts and need to
do in the sound mixes. And I was able to
see this story in particular a lot more holistically than
(05:11):
you know, pull myself about.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
For me, the reason why I don't watch myself is
Ash is a producer on this, which is fantastic, is
I have no control over what goes on the screen.
I have no control over the performance. So I have
control on the day, but in terms of the construction
of the piece, I have no controller. Obviously, very very
frustrating sometimes and annoying when you know that, well, actually,
if only they've done that, that would have belong. So
(05:37):
that's why I don't watch. It's better not to stay away.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I was going to say, is that a fear of
the lack of control because you're going to see something
and you're going to go I need that to be changed.
You do want to enter that space because I guess you.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Can consider the opportunity to make things better.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Yeah, it's a drive for perfection and I understand that,
and certainly for me with anything i'm not producing, I
don't really have the desire to watch it either, because
we've done it.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
We've completed the world. Really, you know, that's the bit
for us. And it's just true.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
We have to say that I just only was curious
about this, and I don't feel like I've ever asked that.
This is episode like four hundred and forty of this podcast,
and I don't think I've ever asked one question to anyone,
because I can't imagine that it would be a comfortable experience.
But I think because the way in which this show
has been put together, it's so visceral, and it's so compelling,
and the way in which it flows just almost feels
(06:30):
like wanting to watch yourself back on a roller coaster.
That's the only reason why I thought maybe you both
might have and David, maybe you should start watching some
of your work.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
It's incredible, very but honestly, it's like, yeah, iys, I
always look forward, So yeah, the thing that I'm involved
in it, you know, at any point in time, that's
where I'm focusing. Yeah, But honestly, it's the action of
creating that's the thing that really fires me.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Actually, you managed to work alongside some a lot of
the people that created Safe Home SBS last year, which
was like another series that very similar to this, was
very it was psychological thriller in a way because of
what's going on. Did you watch Safe Home last year?
Speaker 4 (07:11):
And I did? Yeah, I thought it was brilliant. It's
another image in banks produce that well.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yeah, of course, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I had her on the podcast to talk about it.
I remember saying to her again, we're drinking, but we're
not boozounds. By the way, but I remember saying to Imagen,
I was like, I felt kind of bad that I
was drinking red wine while watching this show is entertainment
because the subject matter was so dark but yet so compelling.
And it feels kind of strange that these days, here
we are with our popcorn, you know, a glass of wine,
(07:41):
watching true crime like this, digesting true crime like this.
It's strange.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Well, I think people, I think people are leaning into
watching really smart drama. And I don't think that the content,
even if the content's brutal or it's uncomfortable or confronting
or however you want to describe it, if it's emotionally
pulsive thus compelling, then it's entertaining. So I don't think
it matters whether it's you know, a comedy or the
(08:08):
subject matter is light, or whether it's this where you know,
you're diving heavily into the psyche of a woman that
is is repressing her instinct and a man that is
a fantasist really that is, you know, who believes his
own narrative. I mean, there's so many layers to it
(08:29):
that as long as it's got that propulsion and it
helped makes you want to lean in I think that,
you know, it can still be really entertaining as opposed
to just feeling dark or heavy or I.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Think for some reason we sort of feel maybe it's
just me, but I feel compelled to find out more
about people. I love people watching people, and I think
that this particular series is almost like a character study
on the psychological fantastica, which you know, like gas lighting
and all of these new terms that are coming about
are all things we're kind of fascinated with because we
(09:03):
see them in our real world. We recognize them in people. David,
how did you go about creating this character? Because it's
so well paced throughout this show, and this man does
exist in the real world, there's people like this man.
How did you go about creating a character? Did you
make decisions about his lying? Did you go, oh, he
(09:27):
believes his own lies. I just felt curious about how
you did it.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
That's an interesting question. Actually, did he believe his own lies? Yeah?
As ashually said, he he's a classic fantasist, and the
thing with him, I believe this is how I approach
the character. He literally believes everything that he said. There
is no distinction between reality and fantasy for him, and
I think that's what makes it really interesting that even
(09:54):
within the most fantastical situations, there's enough of a kernel
of truth in there somewhere to keep Birdie still believing
that this is actually okay, quite real, even if it
was just you know, sometimes the situations are potentially quite
ridiculous that he creates, well, even so, he gives her
just enough to think that potentially, actually, no I can
(10:17):
trust him. So the approach was quite simply to play
every moment as truthfully as possible. There was never, from
his perspective, any time that he lied to anybody, and
I think in doing that, it makes it well, that's
not so interesting. Yeah, it makes it difficult for Birdie
and also the audience to distinguish what israel and what
(10:38):
is fake.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
I had a girlfriend that went out with a guy
very similar to this, not as drawn out, and it
was sort of It's interesting because like this, this show
sort of has it beginning in the middle and an end,
and it's based on a true story. My girlfriend only
really had a small situation with this man, and she
quickly worked it out. And the interesting thing about this
man was that there was this presence about him that
(10:59):
was so it was sort of intoxicating and alluring, but
yet there was something kind of murky the whole time.
Everyone that was ever.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
With this person, you felt it something.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, it was bubbling away behind the surface. And no
one could say that to my friend and she knew
it as well. But it's you know, you felt like
it's rude to pull your friend aside and says, this
man you're in love with or spending time is he
a liar? And that's what's interesting about this as well,
is watching Birdie struggle with what she can probably sense
(11:30):
the whole time is happening, but she is pushing it
away as hard as she can. She doesn't want.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
She's also questioning herself, you see, because you know her
self esteem is low, she's lacking in confidence.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
That's this time in her life.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
So not that that means that that That's why Joe
was able to get her to believe his narrative because I.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Think it can happen to anyone. I really do, and
I love when.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
David talks about this. There's we we inherently trust people.
We want to believe what they say.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
I met a gentleman who is an ex federal policeman
who now is a private investigator and he gets hired
by people to basically to investigate if people are having affairs.
That's one of the things he does. And the first
thing he'll do is ask the client, Okay, tell me
what you know about this gentleman. And the client will say, well,
he's told me he's a blah blah blah. Then he
(12:25):
told me he got that, and then he told me
what he would do. And the investigator always say, Okay,
stop there, that's what he's told you. What do you
know about him? And when that happens, he suddenly he goes, oh, actually,
I don't really know anything because we're believed other than
what you've been told. Yeah, and it's a frightening thing.
So you're reliant on trust when you trust people.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
That's human nature. We want to trust people and we
want to be we want to feel good and swept
up and connected to other people emotionally and physically.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
And you can see how easily this can happen.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
I like to think about it as in as we
as human loves to fill the dots. We can all
go into the room and see something. We can all
see the same thing and come out and interpret it. Differently,
and it usually is because of the way in which
we want to interpret that situation. The lens that we
put over the top of it, I find is really
fascinating and it's something that we all struggle to really
(13:24):
admit that we've done.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yeah, and we all do it, and we're.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
All doing it all of the time, which is like,
is crazy? So fake is inspired by Stephanie Wood's memoir,
and I have to say, I am such a big
fan of Mom and Mere podcast Maya Freeman Friedman and
Asha obviously you are too, because you basically are her
and another series that you're filming at.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
The moment, very inspired by her.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
But had you listened to that episode of her podcast
when she had Stephanie on there, Because I listened to
it in twenty nineteen and I was completely riveted by
her bravery to share that story.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Yes, I know, right, listen to the podcast. I just
I read the book, and of course it is our
drama is inspired by her experience, but it is very
much also our own interpretation of it. I guess I
just wanted to stick with the I only read the
book once too. I didn't refer to it again. I
(14:19):
just I read it I felt very compelled by it.
I wanted to be involved in developing a TV show
with Imagen, and we were inspired by the themes that
Stephanie explores in her book as opposed to the specifics
as such. I mean, you know, you create drama based
on a book or inspired by a book, and you
(14:40):
take the things you're really compelled by and you develop them.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
And that's what we did with this show.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
So it's very much, you know, a fictional show about
these two people, but yet that many, many, many people
globally have experienced. So I guess that you know, what
we set out to do was to make it the
most experiential journey we could, mean inside the point of
view of Bertie and then of Joe as well.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, it was interesting. I went back and listened to
the podcast this morning, just coincidentally with having a little
bit more time before chatting to you, and I shocked
at how much of her dialogue you say exactly the
same way.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Oh do you think?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
And it must be coincidental you're not mimicking her tones,
as in your not trying to well.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
I didn't speak to her before throughout the shoot. No,
I met her at the end. I think we met
her at the end.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yet that is so unbelievable to hear because like, oh, granted,
I listened to that podcast in twenty nineteen, so I'd
had a long disconnect from it and then watched the series,
and it was so interesting then to listen to that
podcast and hears Stephanie's words and for her to say
very clear piece of dialogue that you had in the series.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
I think Annye did take from the book in some ways,
like actual instances, you know, the events that it had
occurred for her. We certainly did that. But I think
that's the point is that this can happen to anybody,
and has happened to many people. An involvement like this
that unfortunately can push you someone into kind of losing
(16:12):
their identity as they know it. It's very common, so
we all kind of speak about it similarly, do you know.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
What I mean?
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah, Well, it was interesting. I'll just say, like tonally,
you weren't sounding like her, but the emotion of what
she was saying was what you captured and what was
there Again, of course that's how you're going to sort
of use the nuances to say those words, Do you
know what I mean? Because it's so emotional. You know,
there's a podcast who the Hell is Hamish or Who
the Fuck is Hamish that's out at the moment, and
(16:40):
it's all the same sort of thing. It's about a
man who did this multiple times, and then you get
to hear the voices of all of these women that
he has manipulated over the years. I just assumed that
it was the same guy and then was disturbed to
find out that there was all of these podcasts of
these men doing this, so sort of circling back what
was saying before. Do you think that these men are
(17:02):
doing it for attention? Like what would make somebody in
your minds want to do that to someone?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I think I think there's a few different categories here.
There's you know, there was a show on Netflix, Tinderswindler
that was a specific example of a guy who obviously
was motivated by you know, he wanted, he wanted He
screwed women for sex and money and what There was
a very clear motivation. This guy in Fake Joe Burt
is not that person. He for me, for my mind,
(17:30):
there was no malevolent we can argue about this. There
was no malevolence in his intent, which makes it interesting
because you're working out why on earth is he doing this?
There's no you know, there's no monetary gain, there's nothing
without giving it away. We know that, you know, Joe
doesn't really have very much. I spoke to a psychiatrist
about it, and he said that there's a particular syndrome
(17:52):
psychological syndrome I can't remember the name for it now,
where by people do things that objectively we think they're strange,
we don't quite understand them, and this particular group of
people it goes under a little term whereby we're never
going to understand their motivation. They just do things that
are confounding and we don't know why.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
That's urinating but confounding.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
You know, obviously her psychological condition without a doubt, and
he's not. I would contend that he's not really aware
of the extent of damage, psychological damage that he is
actually causing on women.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Agree my family, I reckon have this in our DNA. Now,
this is a big thing to sort of say, because
I really, yeah, it's in our DNA, and I have
to try really hard not to do it. I'm sure
people listening to my podcast over the four years probably
find it quite disturbing that I'm even admitting to this,
But I was brought up around fantastic storytellers people men
(18:50):
that were in our family, women that were in our
family that were very good at telling story. There was
a lot of pressure around. We had a Sunday lunch
every Sunday, our whole family would get together, from the
top of our grandparents down and they all had these
amazing stories. And it was kind of said to me,
you know, if you want to hold the fort, if
you want to hold the table and get people's attention
(19:11):
to your story has to be very good. And so
I got very good at being able to tell stories.
And then it wasn't until years later that I found
out that half of those stories that were being told
to me by my grandfather were He knew that they
were crap, like do you know what I mean, and
he'd hold it with no malice. There was no malice
in telling these stories, like.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
In complete conviction, with complete.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
And utter conviction. And that was all my mom's side
of the family, but my dad had it as well.
Dad would just be there freely telling people stories that
I would as a child would be sitting there.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Going on everywhere.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
But I also would be thinking I was there for that.
That's not how it happened. Yes, right, Dad worked at
three W and I remember he picked me up from
school and they're at the Botanical which was like a
water hole for people in the media, and I would
have been like twelve at the box, I would have
been like twelve, and he was holding court with these
(20:10):
people telling these stories, and I remember thinking none of
them were I mean, they were based on truth. There
was elements that definitely happened, but most of what he
was saying was garbage.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Why do you think he did it and your grandfather?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
I think they wanted to be compelling.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, when it's.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Not malicious and you're not trying to steal money from someone,
you're not trying to hurt someone. Where is the responsibility
or the integrity that's being lost in a story by
a person doing that? Is it bad?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
It's a very interesting sort of conversation you've taken out there.
I'm thinking about it, think, yeah, I think maybe just
at the roots of it, there's a need to be loved,
and he's doing it a need to be loved. Yes,
at its simplest essence.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I found that within myself. I found like, I'm in
what he is now and I don't do it. But
it had to be a really conscious decision. When I
thought about having this conversation with you two today and
being so vulnerable with just revealing all of this, I
just got to a point where I didn't want someone
to say I was a liar. I felt disgusted by that,
and amazing things had happened in my life that I
(21:18):
didn't need to lie as well, which you know.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
That is interesting point. We spoke about this every now
and again. Actually, Joe, if he's like he's obviously, you know,
a very smart individual. You know, he has energy whatever,
and you just thought if he put all of those
talents and energies into just one person or to one
job and we're it'd be an extremely successful person.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Why isn't he doing that? Do you
know what I mean? Like in this scenario with him
with Joe, you know, look, he's wanting to do this
on me.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I just don't think he can be satiated.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Essentially, this could even have a series too. I don't
know if you could do a series too, whether that's
even a conversation or whether you're allowed to talk about it,
but the after effects of how this story ends. There's
still so much more that we could talk about, because
I know when I was reading some of Stephanie's work
that you know he continued to contact her after she
(22:12):
outed him. She changed his name and protected him that way,
but his friends and family knew it was him, and
he knew it was him. I'm fascinated about whether or
not you two are already starting to talk about the
aftermath of this.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
No, not really. We were kind of very much in
the NO.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I joked about it that, you know, the next series
should be called Real through Joe's perspective, an experiential trip
through Joe. I don't think we're going to I don't think.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
We're I think episode six is enough, utterly how over
when I saw it, I think episode six in series
ones enough. When it ships me OV two, Joe, he's
very busy. He's so busy. It was exhausting.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
I just I turned to my partner and said, I
was hoping that they were going to do this, but
I felt like this would be the final episode, do
you know what I mean? Like, when we got to
see the switch of POV, I was like isn't that
fascinating kind of like skin crawling in a way, we think, so,
do you think that there should be This is where
my friends who have watched this are starting to talk about,
(23:18):
do you think we need to create laws around social media?
And because there is so much catfishing, and because there
is so much mistrust, all of this sort of murky
side that seems to be coming out of online dating,
should there be something that stops someone from doing that? Like?
Should we because at the moment, you know, there's none
of these case studies of you know, you could go
(23:38):
to jail if you've misrepresented yourself, Like, do you think
that there needs to be something put in place? Well?
Speaker 4 (23:44):
I wonder whether it actually just will start to evolve
in that way and go down that path of things
being legalized.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And I just don't know how on earth because of
so much how would you please that this is the thing?
Speaker 4 (23:57):
I mean, that's the same thing with social media, radio
age restriction as well. I'm thinking about that a lot
at the moment. Of course, I've got a fourteen year
old and a nine year old, and the parent in
me instinctively goes, oh my gosh, yes, absolutely not to sixteen.
You know, every part of me screams that because I'm
really worried about it. But then then you think further
(24:20):
about it, though, and you think, how on earth are
they going to police that?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
How is that going to work? It raises so many questions.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
I mean, I guess things will be put to the
public eventually, but I can't work out in my mind
how that will work. So I wonder about is this
the same a similar thing?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
You know, child like to find it? So that's what
I found with my girlfriends that have got children now
that they swore, you know, my children will not be
on Facebook until they're sixteen. They found that these are That's.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
What I'm saying, like, how are they going to police it?
How are they going to enforce this?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
But then when do you actually, like, when do you
start having that conversation with your children because you kind
of need to start arming them with that information before
they're tempted to get into that space. Do you know
what I mean?
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Oh, I'm always having that conversation with the big boy
that started a few years ago, you know, when he
wanted to jump on TikTok and all the things that
his friends were looking at and yeah, the little one
is not there yet, but he's already aware of the conversation.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
And it's a tricky one. But I think it's similar.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Though, perhaps to how on earth will that be policed
if there were restrictions online dating apps and on behavior.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Basically, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Sure because like, the interesting thing about getting yourself involved
in these spaces I always think is that no one
thinks it all happened to them. And I remember years ago.
I've been in a relationship now for fifteen years, but
I was with a man beforehand, and I'd stopped talking
to my friends and my family. It was really weird,
and it wasn't until someone said to me that I
was in a almost like a domestic violent scenario. And
(25:54):
I just always grew up thinking that would never be me,
do you know what I mean? I always thought, how
do people find themselves in these situations? But for a
lot of people, I don't think that they know that
they're there until it's happened to them.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
And then they visit, oh that's me, I'm in it.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Red flags. I feel like it's a good time to
ask you about this. You've both been in the dating
world at some points of your life. Did you both
have red flags that you would look out for when
it came to the type of people you chose to
be in relationships with.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Well, thankfully David and I skipped we by past the
whole old life digital dating world, which were very grateful for,
I have to say so. Yeah, I mean, of course,
you know, everyone sees red Everyone's encountered red flags meeting
new people, and whether they're friendships or you know, more
(26:44):
intimate relationships whatever. Yeah, of course along the way, I've
seen red flags. I mean, I don't know specifically what
my red got so long ago that I was.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
I've never really dated. I don't know that my.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Only equivalent one was. And it's not a dating situation.
It was I became sort of sort of friendly with
the man who was a poet and he was trying
to get me involved in a film that he had
a script that was being written and whatever, and I
bumped him. Strangely happened to bump into this guy in
really odd situations over a period of years, and to
cover a very long story short, this poet slash scriptwriter
(27:20):
ended up being a rather sophistic cave a drug smuggler
and ended up in prison, and his brother contacted me
and asked if I would appear in court as a
character witness for him. It was only retrospectively I went
through all those times that I had encountered this particular guy,
and it was only then when I went back through
(27:41):
and went, oh my god, that at the time, if
they were the red flags, they were very, very very small,
and I just let them go by.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
But do you pick them up along the way and
there I think anybody we now have all of that
red flags are something we didn't have before. Like when
I was started out dating, no one talked about red
flags be a different term for them. No one talked
about gasoline.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Great flags are instinct, don't they. I mean, that's what
it is.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
It's your instinct and whether you acknowledge it or not
is a choice, I guess, isn't it. And it's easy
to not acknowledge your instinct that's telling you that there's
something wrong and that you don't feel comfortable with somebody.
It's easy to push that. It can be easy to
push that down when the person that you're involved with
(28:28):
has a certain amount of control. And I think that's
true of the relationship between John Birdie too.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Society is reliant on trust, the fact that we trust
each other. The moment that all that trust goes out
and we turn into a bunch of paralleled people going
around the place, I think society would absolutely crumble. So
I think we're hardwired to trust out the better aspects
of people.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I have these other questions for you both about it
and Asha, you mentioned that you didn't you only saw
Stephanie after you'd finished the show. Is that right, so
you'd shot it.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
I think we were about three quarters of the way
through and she came to visit day said visit.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, we said hello at lunchtime. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
I was curious about what her thoughts are on your performance,
Like did she call you after? I haven't spoken to her.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
I don't want to know what I don't know what
anyone thinks of my performance, of my business performance.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
If you ever feel insecure about yourself, feel free to
give me a call. I could probably be one of
your biggest fans all of your shows, like Love My Way.
Someone gave that to me. I was working in radio
at the time and it hadn't come out, and I
watched the first season of Love My Way and it
was like someone. Yeah, it was. It was like someone
had lifted my my skull.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
I was like, it was a special show, wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Nothing had ever been made that felt as close to
being real as that.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
It was special. The great group of people.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
And all the characters were incredibly flawed, and we hadn't
seen that, you know, and we always had to have
like a story, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Not a no ensemble as a whole like that. I guess. Yeah.
It was fairly daring, wasn't it in that way?
Speaker 1 (30:13):
And you were incredible as Julia. And I still mimic
a lot of your lines from that show to my partner.
And I told Claudia Carvn this story and she was disturbed.
But whenever I put myself into a situation where I'm like,
feel a bit uncomfortable and I need a little bit
bit of extra confidence, I would pretend to be you.
(30:36):
I would be like if I was at the doctors
and I'd just sort of be worried about, you know,
what I have to tell because I'd be scared of
what they'd say back. I just become this version that
I'd created in my head of like Nina Pratman, Like
I just would just really come on, come on, give
give I honestly, could I know, David, David. I thought
(30:59):
about this so hard, but it's so bizarre, Like I
would just go in there and you know that, ask
a question and I just give all the answers, Like
I don't even think it's a true comparison. I don't
think that the doctor would be sitting there going is
Benjamin Norris being Nina proud? Men?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
What's your favorit line?
Speaker 1 (31:19):
At Nash I can't even take my kids to the park,
which is tom but we've got to go to the
cross and get some pills. I kind of I kind
of take my kids to.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Talk about love my way because I recognize the lines
from twenty years ago.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Oh my god, we've got to.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
That is just too.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Much that you remember that. I love it just so.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
But I say that all the time because my partner
will come home it's my job to take the dog,
our dog to the park at the end of the day,
and he'll be like, what have you done all day? Like,
you know, because I've obviously been podcasting and googling myself,
I don't know, And he'd be like, why haven't you
taken the dog to the park And I'd be like,
I can't even take my dog to the park. I'm
just so busy, and it's just very, very bad.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
They were great characters, aren't they.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Yeah, cross to get my pills.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah. I just so bizarre that so relatable content. I
think when I watch some of the things that has
been said on TV that have come out of your mouth, Fasher,
I just think I just feel it's so relatable, like
what about him?
Speaker 4 (32:32):
My gosh, Yeah, they come on, come on, we're all
looking forward to seeing a.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Bit though, David. I mean, there's so many of your movies.
The Boys is one of them that I remember being
in the cinema being that little bit too young, and
I was frightened by that performance. Same that movie was frightening.
I don't think I was. I was probably old enough,
but I wasn't mentally old enough to watch. I think
it came out in ninety seven or anyway, I would
(33:01):
have been like seventeen or eighteen. Just but even in Australia,
there was like this sound that you had with your performance, David,
in that where you'd sort of finish your dialogue and
walk away and it sort of had the sneer like
just It's blown my mind to sit here and talk
to the two of you today about these performances, and
then for you, David, to say that you haven't watched
(33:21):
a lot of it back, because yeah, I've been reveling
in your work for three decades of amazing work.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
I sho watch the Boys and scare himself. That's what
I reckon.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Oh my god, Yeah, go back and watch that. Actually,
I'd love this. That's a separate podcast, just just you
being forced to go back and unpack all of your
all of your.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Work that'd been interesting, like woulds it show Google books
or whatever? Got Of course we have watched the reactions
of us watching our own work and then having to
talk about it. Yes, idiots, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Shocking, David. I was going to say that my dad
really wanted me to be an actor for a while
and I was terrible, Like he took me to audition
for a country practice, couldn't remember the lines.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
And then you couldn't country breakfast.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
I'm forty four. I just looked good for my age.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Wow wow, And did what happened?
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Well? I went in and read for the show, read
for a country practice. I was to play a small
kid who got sick from drinking contaminated water. Anyway, I
definitely didn't get a call back, didn't get asked to
do it, and through the idea of being an actor
out the window for many years until I saw you
in the movie Cozy, which was a film of yours
(34:43):
at the cinemas in nineteen ninety six. After watching that film,
I was like, I want to be an actor. It
didn't well spoiler alert, that was great.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Love that.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Anyway, I am running out of time very quickly. And
I have one question that I finished all of my
podcasts with also was curious to know, Asha, what are
your thoughts on Nicole Kidman doing the next season of
Nine Perfect Strangers. I'm surprised there's a second series of that,
and I don't know if you're involved in it. I
don't know.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
No, No, I'm not. No, it's a whole new set
of guests. Well, I mean, I don't think it's surprising.
I think it's it lends itself that the set, you know,
the environment of the show. What am I trying to say?
It lends itself to a second series, absolutely, because you
get a whole new raft of characters to explore.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
As the guests of Marsha Nicole's character.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Could I be a guest? You could?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
You should be. They've already finished filming, David still.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Have to do it.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
You'd be a great guest. Yeah, I'm excited to see it. No,
I have nothing to do with it. It's all new
folks except for Nicole of course.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
And she was Marshall. I found her so repulsive the
whole way through people.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
In the best possible way, she's like the least. Yeah,
she's the opposite of that. She's gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Absolutely. Well, Before you go, I'll ask you both a
question that I ask everyone who joins the podcast. What's
something from behind the scenes, something that the audience who
have watched fake wouldn't get to know, kind of like
a funny anecdote that might have happened along the way into.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
While in making it.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
You know, this is one of the trickiest questions to answer.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Do you put this to all your kids?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
And is you're a longboard after you?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah, I'll tell you. I'll tell you a funny thing.
The reason why it's there is because the very first
guest I had was an executive producer from a television show,
and I asked him that question just because I put
it in the rundown and it was interesting. He answered
the question and it got repeated all around the world.
It literally was in I think it was something like
(36:58):
one hundred and eighty articles were created. Did answer? Well.
He was the executive producer of I'm a Celebrity, Get
Me out of Here. And I asked him for what's
you know, a story from behind the scenes, and he
told this story about how he had this celebrity in
the jungle who sat there one day and told this
long story about how he met and had sex with
(37:20):
someone very, very famous. However, he ran out of the
jungle up to the studio camera like to and said,
I just realized that I've told that story in with
time and dates and everything, and I was married at
the time, and.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
You know, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
So he'd run out of the set of the show
like just like a madman, like you know'd been in
that jungle, and that confines with that jungle really just
talking about all this stuff, and then he thought, hang
on a zank, No, I was married when.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
That had running out to tell them that he could
don't play it.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
And what happened?
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Did?
Speaker 2 (37:57):
They didn't?
Speaker 1 (37:58):
They they did. They changed it. And the interesting thing
about that, producer Alex Madverttichers, was that he he didn't
say in the podcast who it was. But what was
really interesting about it was that it spawned the listeners
to try and work out who they thought it was.
So people thought it was Shane Warn, people thought it
(38:18):
was all of these different people. In England, it got
picked up and it was in the press over there.
I launched this TV podcast episode.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Wow, I don't think anywhere. No, nothing juicy. I mean,
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
Do we have a shared anecdote? What anecdotes are not
my strong point.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
I had to say no, not when you're just yeah,
they come into spontaneously memories very difficult.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
I think that happened. Did anything happen? That was kind of.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
What I would like to know is clearly the two
of you don't audition for these things and actually are
a producer of But did you both get together to
see what the chemistry was like between the two of you,
because these two, these two characters, like from the moment
you two meet in that very first scene, you then
build and build and build with the relationship between the
(39:14):
two of you. How did you create that the tension
and the spark between the two of you.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
Well, I guess that's what actors do, you know. I mean,
this sort of strange thing about chemistry were actors.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
This is what actors do.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
And luckily, you know, it's great when you work with
someone and you share a similar process and you have
perhaps a similar sense of humor and you there is
an ease and a relaxation between you, And certainly that's
true of David to Night. You know that that's kind
of wonderful when that happens. But if it's not there
in any given partnership on screen, you create it.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
That's what we do.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
It's interesting, do you remember that quote from I think
it's Jodie Foster and Anthony Hopkins and they both filmed
The Science of the Lamps and they both there together,
you know, the whole way through the film. And to
create that they you know, just their actors. They both
tell the story. They just that was the role they
had to play. But they bore best to each other
later on that they were scared of each other. Anthony
(40:14):
was scared of her as Clarice and she was scared
of him as as Hannibal. Like they were sort of
frightened Ashra I wondered whether or not, you know, at
certain times, did you look at Joe and were you
kind of like, oh, David's Joe is so frightening right now.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
There were plenty of times where I felt very affected
by it, and a lot of the time I wasn't
entire Even though we are very much like to interrogate
the words on the page, I suppose and make sure
that the scene we're going to deliver is what we
wanted to be, there's also plenty of surprise in performance,
(40:49):
you know, and with David there was all the time
I wasn't quite sure what I was going to get,
and I was, you know, did feel like on a
as relaxed and comfortable as we felt together, characters also
were being propelled by a great deal of emotion both
of them, and a need to be understood and a
(41:09):
need to be heard.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
So I think there were plenty of surprises along the way.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
I mean there were for me as we were performing together,
wasn't always sure what was going to come next.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
But I love that. That's the fun.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
That's why you do it, hey, That's why we do it.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Yeah, the story that you know there's many different ways
to tell a story, and it's fun.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
To do that.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
I'm just so in awe of you both as actors people,
and what a joy to be able to talk to
you to both today, particularly about this show, which I
think is just got legs. I think it's going to
get up and run away because very much like Baby Reindeer,
everything about this is compelling. You could come at this
story from so many different angles. So for anyone listening
(41:50):
to us talking about this today, subscribe to Paramount Plus
and disappear into this world. It's compelling and brilliant work
from both of you. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Thanks, thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
Yeah, good chalk, thank you, really good.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Thank you anyway, enjoy chatting. I'll let you both go, but.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
You liked it.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
What's love to you both.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Sayd bye
It's in the news today, but it was actually on
TV Reload.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The podcast last week They're Life.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey guys, welcome back to TV Reload. I want to
thank you for clicking and downloading on today's episode with
Asher Ketty and David Wenham, who are both featured in
the new Paramount Plus series Fake. The eight part limited
series is based on a true story when magazine feature
writer Bertie Bell meets success for grazier Joe Bert on
a dating app and believes that she has found her
(00:25):
perfect match. But as the relationship intensifies, Bertie begins to
feel her boyfriend isn't all that he has led her
to believe. The scary fact is that men in the
real world are doing this every day, and sadly, this
is becoming a common story. The series is based on
a book by the author Stephanie Wood, and the way
in which the show unpacks psychological fantastica is groundbreaking work
(00:49):
for the team of content creators that bring you this series.
The whole series is available to view on Paramount Plus
right now, and I don't say this lightly. Sign up
and stream this show right now. It is phenomenal. At
this point of the podcast, I usually intro my guests
and give you a bit of a summary. But my
guest today Asha Kenny and David Wenem need no introduction
(01:10):
because we have been in their audience for decades. I
will talk about how Asher and David created these characters from,
how much they borrowed from the book, what David thinks
about his characters lying, and if Asher was able to
watch back her most intense performance to date. We will
unpack the obsession of true crime, what this says about us,
(01:30):
and why audiences now demand smarter scripted dramas. There is
an opportunity to talk to Asher about her roles on
Offspring and Love My Way, which is very exciting for me.
And David will reveal a shocking truth about his on
screen roles, which is fascinating to hear considering his filmography.
You will find out if there is going to be
a second series of Fake. We will talk about the
(01:53):
laws that need to be implemented on falsifying and manipulating
people in the dating world. Guys, there is so much
to unpack with Asher and David today, so sit back
and relax as we unpack the complicated world of Fake,
which is now on Paramount Plus thank you both for
doing this and for talking to me. I am such
a big fan of both of you and this series
(02:14):
is absolutely incredible.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Thank you, guys.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I have a friend of mine who works in the
media and he rang me one afternoon and said that
he needed to write a feature the next day and
was looking for ideas. And I said to him, You've
got to write about Fake because I'd watched the screeners.
I watched it all in one go, all eight episodes
in one sitting, and I said, you have to watch it.
It is so compelling. Everyone in Australia is going to
(02:38):
be talking about it. Get on board, get ahead of
the story. And he said, could I say that it's
Australia's baby Reindeer. And I was like, yes, yes, it is.
It is. It's Australia's baby Reindeer because everyone is going
to watch it all in one.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Go oh gosh, that's good.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
So people need to cancel all of their subscriptions. I
need to get Paramour Plus.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
That's right, and put aside one night where they don't
sleep and just watch it all.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yes, how did you both find watching the show? You
guys were there creating these characters and reading these lines.
But then have you were you able to watch it
as a viewer? What was that like?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Well, I don't know if Day's watched it.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
No, I don't. I hardly ever watch my own work.
I don't watch stuff. Unfortunately. I wish I could, because
I'm hypercritical and so I can't be completely objective and
just watch something and enjoy it for what it is. Yeah,
I've always have my critical faculties on, so I'm not
a consumer. I don't watch anything. Really. I read. I
(03:38):
know that it's sort of bamboozles people, but yeah, that's
just me. I'm a book weirder.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Well, I read mostly too, that's my entertainment.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
I think we are actually very similar in our process
doing the actual work.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
That's a bit that we like doing it.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
It is the true thing, that's the process being enjoyed
the most, right, So, and this says was incredible together
was creatively it was just so so satisfying, wonderful. But
we are a little different in that spect in post production.
So I'm quite okay to watch something I didn't used
to be. I used to be very much like David.
(04:16):
Oh god, no, I the thought of watching myself was mortifying.
I would just pull myself apart, and I want to
go back and do it again, and what would be
the point of watching something? For many years, I carried
on like that and thought, I'm just it's best not
to see, you know, because the process is what's that's
the fun part. But I've thought about this. I think
doing Offspring for all those years helped me to be
(04:37):
a little.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Bit more objective.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
I mean, frankly, I just got you know you're watching
if you're in every scene and you're sort of.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
A part of well. I wasn't a producer on that show.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
I was really involved in you know, early cuts, and
it was important to me to watch it. I think
I became a little more relaxed about it, which is
kind of good because I'm with the show like Fate
I was producing, and I really do need to watch it.
I need to sit in the carts and need to
do in the sound mixes. And I was able to
see this story in particular a lot more holistically than
(05:11):
you know, pull myself about.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
For me, the reason why I don't watch myself is
Ash is a producer on this, which is fantastic, is
I have no control over what goes on the screen.
I have no control over the performance. So I have
control on the day, but in terms of the construction
of the piece, I have no controller. Obviously, very very
frustrating sometimes and annoying when you know that, well, actually,
if only they've done that, that would have belong. So
(05:37):
that's why I don't watch. It's better not to stay away.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I was going to say, is that a fear of
the lack of control because you're going to see something
and you're going to go I need that to be changed.
You do want to enter that space because I guess you.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Can consider the opportunity to make things better.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Yeah, it's a drive for perfection and I understand that,
and certainly for me with anything i'm not producing, I
don't really have the desire to watch it either, because
we've done it.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
We've completed the world. Really, you know, that's the bit
for us. And it's just true.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
We have to say that I just only was curious
about this, and I don't feel like I've ever asked that.
This is episode like four hundred and forty of this podcast,
and I don't think I've ever asked one question to anyone,
because I can't imagine that it would be a comfortable experience.
But I think because the way in which this show
has been put together, it's so visceral, and it's so compelling,
and the way in which it flows just almost feels
(06:30):
like wanting to watch yourself back on a roller coaster.
That's the only reason why I thought maybe you both
might have and David, maybe you should start watching some
of your work.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
It's incredible, very but honestly, it's like, yeah, iys, I
always look forward, So yeah, the thing that I'm involved
in it, you know, at any point in time, that's
where I'm focusing. Yeah, But honestly, it's the action of
creating that's the thing that really fires me.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Actually, you managed to work alongside some a lot of
the people that created Safe Home SBS last year, which
was like another series that very similar to this, was
very it was psychological thriller in a way because of
what's going on. Did you watch Safe Home last year?
Speaker 4 (07:11):
And I did? Yeah, I thought it was brilliant. It's
another image in banks produce that well.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yeah, of course, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I had her on the podcast to talk about it.
I remember saying to her again, we're drinking, but we're
not boozounds. By the way, but I remember saying to Imagen,
I was like, I felt kind of bad that I
was drinking red wine while watching this show is entertainment
because the subject matter was so dark but yet so compelling.
And it feels kind of strange that these days, here
we are with our popcorn, you know, a glass of wine,
(07:41):
watching true crime like this, digesting true crime like this.
It's strange.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Well, I think people, I think people are leaning into
watching really smart drama. And I don't think that the content,
even if the content's brutal or it's uncomfortable or confronting
or however you want to describe it, if it's emotionally
pulsive thus compelling, then it's entertaining. So I don't think
it matters whether it's you know, a comedy or the
(08:08):
subject matter is light, or whether it's this where you know,
you're diving heavily into the psyche of a woman that
is is repressing her instinct and a man that is
a fantasist really that is, you know, who believes his
own narrative. I mean, there's so many layers to it
(08:29):
that as long as it's got that propulsion and it
helped makes you want to lean in I think that,
you know, it can still be really entertaining as opposed
to just feeling dark or heavy or I.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Think for some reason we sort of feel maybe it's
just me, but I feel compelled to find out more
about people. I love people watching people, and I think
that this particular series is almost like a character study
on the psychological fantastica, which you know, like gas lighting
and all of these new terms that are coming about
are all things we're kind of fascinated with because we
(09:03):
see them in our real world. We recognize them in people. David,
how did you go about creating this character? Because it's
so well paced throughout this show, and this man does
exist in the real world, there's people like this man.
How did you go about creating a character? Did you
make decisions about his lying? Did you go, oh, he
(09:27):
believes his own lies. I just felt curious about how
you did it.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
That's an interesting question. Actually, did he believe his own lies? Yeah?
As ashually said, he he's a classic fantasist, and the
thing with him, I believe this is how I approach
the character. He literally believes everything that he said. There
is no distinction between reality and fantasy for him, and
I think that's what makes it really interesting that even
(09:54):
within the most fantastical situations, there's enough of a kernel
of truth in there somewhere to keep Birdie still believing
that this is actually okay, quite real, even if it
was just you know, sometimes the situations are potentially quite
ridiculous that he creates, well, even so, he gives her
just enough to think that potentially, actually, no I can
(10:17):
trust him. So the approach was quite simply to play
every moment as truthfully as possible. There was never, from
his perspective, any time that he lied to anybody, and
I think in doing that, it makes it well, that's
not so interesting. Yeah, it makes it difficult for Birdie
and also the audience to distinguish what israel and what
(10:38):
is fake.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
I had a girlfriend that went out with a guy
very similar to this, not as drawn out, and it
was sort of It's interesting because like this, this show
sort of has it beginning in the middle and an end,
and it's based on a true story. My girlfriend only
really had a small situation with this man, and she
quickly worked it out. And the interesting thing about this
man was that there was this presence about him that
(10:59):
was so it was sort of intoxicating and alluring, but
yet there was something kind of murky the whole time.
Everyone that was ever.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
With this person, you felt it something.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, it was bubbling away behind the surface. And no
one could say that to my friend and she knew
it as well. But it's you know, you felt like
it's rude to pull your friend aside and says, this
man you're in love with or spending time is he
a liar? And that's what's interesting about this as well,
is watching Birdie struggle with what she can probably sense
(11:30):
the whole time is happening, but she is pushing it
away as hard as she can. She doesn't want.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
She's also questioning herself, you see, because you know her
self esteem is low, she's lacking in confidence.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
That's this time in her life.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
So not that that means that that That's why Joe
was able to get her to believe his narrative because I.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Think it can happen to anyone. I really do, and
I love when.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
David talks about this. There's we we inherently trust people.
We want to believe what they say.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
I met a gentleman who is an ex federal policeman
who now is a private investigator and he gets hired
by people to basically to investigate if people are having affairs.
That's one of the things he does. And the first
thing he'll do is ask the client, Okay, tell me
what you know about this gentleman. And the client will say, well,
he's told me he's a blah blah blah. Then he
(12:25):
told me he got that, and then he told me
what he would do. And the investigator always say, Okay,
stop there, that's what he's told you. What do you
know about him? And when that happens, he suddenly he goes, oh, actually,
I don't really know anything because we're believed other than
what you've been told. Yeah, and it's a frightening thing.
So you're reliant on trust when you trust people.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
That's human nature. We want to trust people and we
want to be we want to feel good and swept
up and connected to other people emotionally and physically.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
And you can see how easily this can happen.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
I like to think about it as in as we
as human loves to fill the dots. We can all
go into the room and see something. We can all
see the same thing and come out and interpret it. Differently,
and it usually is because of the way in which
we want to interpret that situation. The lens that we
put over the top of it, I find is really
fascinating and it's something that we all struggle to really
(13:24):
admit that we've done.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yeah, and we all do it, and we're.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
All doing it all of the time, which is like,
is crazy? So fake is inspired by Stephanie Wood's memoir,
and I have to say, I am such a big
fan of Mom and Mere podcast Maya Freeman Friedman and
Asha obviously you are too, because you basically are her
and another series that you're filming at.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
The moment, very inspired by her.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
But had you listened to that episode of her podcast
when she had Stephanie on there, Because I listened to
it in twenty nineteen and I was completely riveted by
her bravery to share that story.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Yes, I know, right, listen to the podcast. I just
I read the book, and of course it is our
drama is inspired by her experience, but it is very
much also our own interpretation of it. I guess I
just wanted to stick with the I only read the
book once too. I didn't refer to it again. I
(14:19):
just I read it I felt very compelled by it.
I wanted to be involved in developing a TV show
with Imagen, and we were inspired by the themes that
Stephanie explores in her book as opposed to the specifics
as such. I mean, you know, you create drama based
on a book or inspired by a book, and you
(14:40):
take the things you're really compelled by and you develop them.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
And that's what we did with this show.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
So it's very much, you know, a fictional show about
these two people, but yet that many, many, many people
globally have experienced. So I guess that you know, what
we set out to do was to make it the
most experiential journey we could, mean inside the point of
view of Bertie and then of Joe as well.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, it was interesting. I went back and listened to
the podcast this morning, just coincidentally with having a little
bit more time before chatting to you, and I shocked
at how much of her dialogue you say exactly the
same way.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Oh do you think?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
And it must be coincidental you're not mimicking her tones,
as in your not trying to well.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
I didn't speak to her before throughout the shoot. No,
I met her at the end. I think we met
her at the end.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yet that is so unbelievable to hear because like, oh, granted,
I listened to that podcast in twenty nineteen, so I'd
had a long disconnect from it and then watched the series,
and it was so interesting then to listen to that
podcast and hears Stephanie's words and for her to say
very clear piece of dialogue that you had in the series.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
I think Annye did take from the book in some ways,
like actual instances, you know, the events that it had
occurred for her. We certainly did that. But I think
that's the point is that this can happen to anybody,
and has happened to many people. An involvement like this
that unfortunately can push you someone into kind of losing
(16:12):
their identity as they know it. It's very common, so
we all kind of speak about it similarly, do you know.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
What I mean?
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah, Well, it was interesting. I'll just say, like tonally,
you weren't sounding like her, but the emotion of what
she was saying was what you captured and what was
there Again, of course that's how you're going to sort
of use the nuances to say those words, Do you
know what I mean? Because it's so emotional. You know,
there's a podcast who the Hell is Hamish or Who
the Fuck is Hamish that's out at the moment, and
(16:40):
it's all the same sort of thing. It's about a
man who did this multiple times, and then you get
to hear the voices of all of these women that
he has manipulated over the years. I just assumed that
it was the same guy and then was disturbed to
find out that there was all of these podcasts of
these men doing this, so sort of circling back what
was saying before. Do you think that these men are
(17:02):
doing it for attention? Like what would make somebody in
your minds want to do that to someone?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I think I think there's a few different categories here.
There's you know, there was a show on Netflix, Tinderswindler
that was a specific example of a guy who obviously
was motivated by you know, he wanted, he wanted He
screwed women for sex and money and what There was
a very clear motivation. This guy in Fake Joe Burt
is not that person. He for me, for my mind,
(17:30):
there was no malevolent we can argue about this. There
was no malevolence in his intent, which makes it interesting
because you're working out why on earth is he doing this?
There's no you know, there's no monetary gain, there's nothing
without giving it away. We know that, you know, Joe
doesn't really have very much. I spoke to a psychiatrist
about it, and he said that there's a particular syndrome
(17:52):
psychological syndrome I can't remember the name for it now,
where by people do things that objectively we think they're strange,
we don't quite understand them, and this particular group of
people it goes under a little term whereby we're never
going to understand their motivation. They just do things that
are confounding and we don't know why.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
That's urinating but confounding.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
You know, obviously her psychological condition without a doubt, and
he's not. I would contend that he's not really aware
of the extent of damage, psychological damage that he is
actually causing on women.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Agree my family, I reckon have this in our DNA. Now,
this is a big thing to sort of say, because
I really, yeah, it's in our DNA, and I have
to try really hard not to do it. I'm sure
people listening to my podcast over the four years probably
find it quite disturbing that I'm even admitting to this,
But I was brought up around fantastic storytellers people men
(18:50):
that were in our family, women that were in our
family that were very good at telling story. There was
a lot of pressure around. We had a Sunday lunch
every Sunday, our whole family would get together, from the
top of our grandparents down and they all had these
amazing stories. And it was kind of said to me,
you know, if you want to hold the fort, if
you want to hold the table and get people's attention
(19:11):
to your story has to be very good. And so
I got very good at being able to tell stories.
And then it wasn't until years later that I found
out that half of those stories that were being told
to me by my grandfather were He knew that they
were crap, like do you know what I mean, and
he'd hold it with no malice. There was no malice
in telling these stories, like.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
In complete conviction, with complete.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
And utter conviction. And that was all my mom's side
of the family, but my dad had it as well.
Dad would just be there freely telling people stories that
I would as a child would be sitting there.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Going on everywhere.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
But I also would be thinking I was there for that.
That's not how it happened. Yes, right, Dad worked at
three W and I remember he picked me up from
school and they're at the Botanical which was like a
water hole for people in the media, and I would
have been like twelve at the box, I would have
been like twelve, and he was holding court with these
(20:10):
people telling these stories, and I remember thinking none of
them were I mean, they were based on truth. There
was elements that definitely happened, but most of what he
was saying was garbage.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Why do you think he did it and your grandfather?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
I think they wanted to be compelling.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, when it's.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Not malicious and you're not trying to steal money from someone,
you're not trying to hurt someone. Where is the responsibility
or the integrity that's being lost in a story by
a person doing that? Is it bad?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
It's a very interesting sort of conversation you've taken out there.
I'm thinking about it, think, yeah, I think maybe just
at the roots of it, there's a need to be loved,
and he's doing it a need to be loved. Yes,
at its simplest essence.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I found that within myself. I found like, I'm in
what he is now and I don't do it. But
it had to be a really conscious decision. When I
thought about having this conversation with you two today and
being so vulnerable with just revealing all of this, I
just got to a point where I didn't want someone
to say I was a liar. I felt disgusted by that,
and amazing things had happened in my life that I
(21:18):
didn't need to lie as well, which you know.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
That is interesting point. We spoke about this every now
and again. Actually, Joe, if he's like he's obviously, you know,
a very smart individual. You know, he has energy whatever,
and you just thought if he put all of those
talents and energies into just one person or to one
job and we're it'd be an extremely successful person.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Why isn't he doing that? Do you
know what I mean? Like in this scenario with him
with Joe, you know, look, he's wanting to do this
on me.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I just don't think he can be satiated.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Essentially, this could even have a series too. I don't
know if you could do a series too, whether that's
even a conversation or whether you're allowed to talk about it,
but the after effects of how this story ends. There's
still so much more that we could talk about, because
I know when I was reading some of Stephanie's work
that you know he continued to contact her after she
(22:12):
outed him. She changed his name and protected him that way,
but his friends and family knew it was him, and
he knew it was him. I'm fascinated about whether or
not you two are already starting to talk about the
aftermath of this.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
No, not really. We were kind of very much in
the NO.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I joked about it that, you know, the next series
should be called Real through Joe's perspective, an experiential trip
through Joe. I don't think we're going to I don't think.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
We're I think episode six is enough, utterly how over
when I saw it, I think episode six in series
ones enough. When it ships me OV two, Joe, he's
very busy. He's so busy. It was exhausting.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
I just I turned to my partner and said, I
was hoping that they were going to do this, but
I felt like this would be the final episode, do
you know what I mean? Like, when we got to
see the switch of POV, I was like isn't that
fascinating kind of like skin crawling in a way, we think, so,
do you think that there should be This is where
my friends who have watched this are starting to talk about,
(23:18):
do you think we need to create laws around social media?
And because there is so much catfishing, and because there
is so much mistrust, all of this sort of murky
side that seems to be coming out of online dating,
should there be something that stops someone from doing that? Like?
Should we because at the moment, you know, there's none
of these case studies of you know, you could go
(23:38):
to jail if you've misrepresented yourself, Like, do you think
that there needs to be something put in place? Well?
Speaker 4 (23:44):
I wonder whether it actually just will start to evolve
in that way and go down that path of things
being legalized.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And I just don't know how on earth because of
so much how would you please that this is the thing?
Speaker 4 (23:57):
I mean, that's the same thing with social media, radio
age restriction as well. I'm thinking about that a lot
at the moment. Of course, I've got a fourteen year
old and a nine year old, and the parent in
me instinctively goes, oh my gosh, yes, absolutely not to sixteen.
You know, every part of me screams that because I'm
really worried about it. But then then you think further
(24:20):
about it, though, and you think, how on earth are
they going to police that?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
How is that going to work? It raises so many questions.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
I mean, I guess things will be put to the
public eventually, but I can't work out in my mind
how that will work. So I wonder about is this
the same a similar thing?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
You know, child like to find it? So that's what
I found with my girlfriends that have got children now
that they swore, you know, my children will not be
on Facebook until they're sixteen. They found that these are That's.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
What I'm saying, like, how are they going to police it?
How are they going to enforce this?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
But then when do you actually, like, when do you
start having that conversation with your children because you kind
of need to start arming them with that information before
they're tempted to get into that space. Do you know
what I mean?
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Oh, I'm always having that conversation with the big boy
that started a few years ago, you know, when he
wanted to jump on TikTok and all the things that
his friends were looking at and yeah, the little one
is not there yet, but he's already aware of the conversation.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
And it's a tricky one. But I think it's similar.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Though, perhaps to how on earth will that be policed
if there were restrictions online dating apps and on behavior.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Basically, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Sure because like, the interesting thing about getting yourself involved
in these spaces I always think is that no one
thinks it all happened to them. And I remember years ago.
I've been in a relationship now for fifteen years, but
I was with a man beforehand, and I'd stopped talking
to my friends and my family. It was really weird,
and it wasn't until someone said to me that I
was in a almost like a domestic violent scenario. And
(25:54):
I just always grew up thinking that would never be me,
do you know what I mean? I always thought, how
do people find themselves in these situations? But for a
lot of people, I don't think that they know that
they're there until it's happened to them.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
And then they visit, oh that's me, I'm in it.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Red flags. I feel like it's a good time to
ask you about this. You've both been in the dating
world at some points of your life. Did you both
have red flags that you would look out for when
it came to the type of people you chose to
be in relationships with.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Well, thankfully David and I skipped we by past the
whole old life digital dating world, which were very grateful for,
I have to say so. Yeah, I mean, of course,
you know, everyone sees red Everyone's encountered red flags meeting
new people, and whether they're friendships or you know, more
(26:44):
intimate relationships whatever. Yeah, of course along the way, I've
seen red flags. I mean, I don't know specifically what
my red got so long ago that I was.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
I've never really dated. I don't know that my.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Only equivalent one was. And it's not a dating situation.
It was I became sort of sort of friendly with
the man who was a poet and he was trying
to get me involved in a film that he had
a script that was being written and whatever, and I
bumped him. Strangely happened to bump into this guy in
really odd situations over a period of years, and to
cover a very long story short, this poet slash scriptwriter
(27:20):
ended up being a rather sophistic cave a drug smuggler
and ended up in prison, and his brother contacted me
and asked if I would appear in court as a
character witness for him. It was only retrospectively I went
through all those times that I had encountered this particular guy,
and it was only then when I went back through
(27:41):
and went, oh my god, that at the time, if
they were the red flags, they were very, very very small,
and I just let them go by.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
But do you pick them up along the way and
there I think anybody we now have all of that
red flags are something we didn't have before. Like when
I was started out dating, no one talked about red
flags be a different term for them. No one talked
about gasoline.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Great flags are instinct, don't they. I mean, that's what
it is.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
It's your instinct and whether you acknowledge it or not
is a choice, I guess, isn't it. And it's easy
to not acknowledge your instinct that's telling you that there's
something wrong and that you don't feel comfortable with somebody.
It's easy to push that. It can be easy to
push that down when the person that you're involved with
(28:28):
has a certain amount of control. And I think that's
true of the relationship between John Birdie too.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Society is reliant on trust, the fact that we trust
each other. The moment that all that trust goes out
and we turn into a bunch of paralleled people going
around the place, I think society would absolutely crumble. So
I think we're hardwired to trust out the better aspects
of people.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I have these other questions for you both about it
and Asha, you mentioned that you didn't you only saw
Stephanie after you'd finished the show. Is that right, so
you'd shot it.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
I think we were about three quarters of the way
through and she came to visit day said visit.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, we said hello at lunchtime. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
I was curious about what her thoughts are on your performance,
Like did she call you after? I haven't spoken to her.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
I don't want to know what I don't know what
anyone thinks of my performance, of my business performance.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
If you ever feel insecure about yourself, feel free to
give me a call. I could probably be one of
your biggest fans all of your shows, like Love My Way.
Someone gave that to me. I was working in radio
at the time and it hadn't come out, and I
watched the first season of Love My Way and it
was like someone. Yeah, it was. It was like someone
had lifted my my skull.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
I was like, it was a special show, wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Nothing had ever been made that felt as close to
being real as that.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
It was special. The great group of people.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
And all the characters were incredibly flawed, and we hadn't
seen that, you know, and we always had to have
like a story, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Not a no ensemble as a whole like that. I guess. Yeah.
It was fairly daring, wasn't it in that way?
Speaker 1 (30:13):
And you were incredible as Julia. And I still mimic
a lot of your lines from that show to my partner.
And I told Claudia Carvn this story and she was disturbed.
But whenever I put myself into a situation where I'm like,
feel a bit uncomfortable and I need a little bit
bit of extra confidence, I would pretend to be you.
(30:36):
I would be like if I was at the doctors
and I'd just sort of be worried about, you know,
what I have to tell because I'd be scared of
what they'd say back. I just become this version that
I'd created in my head of like Nina Pratman, Like
I just would just really come on, come on, give
give I honestly, could I know, David, David. I thought
(30:59):
about this so hard, but it's so bizarre, Like I
would just go in there and you know that, ask
a question and I just give all the answers, Like
I don't even think it's a true comparison. I don't
think that the doctor would be sitting there going is
Benjamin Norris being Nina proud? Men?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
What's your favorit line?
Speaker 1 (31:19):
At Nash I can't even take my kids to the park,
which is tom but we've got to go to the
cross and get some pills. I kind of I kind
of take my kids to.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Talk about love my way because I recognize the lines
from twenty years ago.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Oh my god, we've got to.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
That is just too.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Much that you remember that. I love it just so.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
But I say that all the time because my partner
will come home it's my job to take the dog,
our dog to the park at the end of the day,
and he'll be like, what have you done all day? Like,
you know, because I've obviously been podcasting and googling myself,
I don't know, And he'd be like, why haven't you
taken the dog to the park And I'd be like,
I can't even take my dog to the park. I'm
just so busy, and it's just very, very bad.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
They were great characters, aren't they.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Yeah, cross to get my pills.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah. I just so bizarre that so relatable content. I
think when I watch some of the things that has
been said on TV that have come out of your mouth, Fasher,
I just think I just feel it's so relatable, like
what about him?
Speaker 4 (32:32):
My gosh, Yeah, they come on, come on, we're all
looking forward to seeing a.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Bit though, David. I mean, there's so many of your movies.
The Boys is one of them that I remember being
in the cinema being that little bit too young, and
I was frightened by that performance. Same that movie was frightening.
I don't think I was. I was probably old enough,
but I wasn't mentally old enough to watch. I think
it came out in ninety seven or anyway, I would
(33:01):
have been like seventeen or eighteen. Just but even in Australia,
there was like this sound that you had with your performance, David,
in that where you'd sort of finish your dialogue and
walk away and it sort of had the sneer like
just It's blown my mind to sit here and talk
to the two of you today about these performances, and
then for you, David, to say that you haven't watched
(33:21):
a lot of it back, because yeah, I've been reveling
in your work for three decades of amazing work.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
I sho watch the Boys and scare himself. That's what
I reckon.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Oh my god, Yeah, go back and watch that. Actually,
I'd love this. That's a separate podcast, just just you
being forced to go back and unpack all of your
all of your.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Work that'd been interesting, like woulds it show Google books
or whatever? Got Of course we have watched the reactions
of us watching our own work and then having to
talk about it. Yes, idiots, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Shocking, David. I was going to say that my dad
really wanted me to be an actor for a while
and I was terrible, Like he took me to audition
for a country practice, couldn't remember the lines.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
And then you couldn't country breakfast.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
I'm forty four. I just looked good for my age.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Wow wow, And did what happened?
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Well? I went in and read for the show, read
for a country practice. I was to play a small
kid who got sick from drinking contaminated water. Anyway, I
definitely didn't get a call back, didn't get asked to
do it, and through the idea of being an actor
out the window for many years until I saw you
in the movie Cozy, which was a film of yours
(34:43):
at the cinemas in nineteen ninety six. After watching that film,
I was like, I want to be an actor. It
didn't well spoiler alert, that was great.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Love that.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Anyway, I am running out of time very quickly. And
I have one question that I finished all of my
podcasts with also was curious to know, Asha, what are
your thoughts on Nicole Kidman doing the next season of
Nine Perfect Strangers. I'm surprised there's a second series of that,
and I don't know if you're involved in it. I
don't know.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
No, No, I'm not. No, it's a whole new set
of guests. Well, I mean, I don't think it's surprising.
I think it's it lends itself that the set, you know,
the environment of the show. What am I trying to say?
It lends itself to a second series, absolutely, because you
get a whole new raft of characters to explore.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
As the guests of Marsha Nicole's character.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Could I be a guest? You could?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
You should be. They've already finished filming, David still.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Have to do it.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
You'd be a great guest. Yeah, I'm excited to see it. No,
I have nothing to do with it. It's all new
folks except for Nicole of course.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
And she was Marshall. I found her so repulsive the
whole way through people.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
In the best possible way, she's like the least. Yeah,
she's the opposite of that. She's gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Absolutely. Well, Before you go, I'll ask you both a
question that I ask everyone who joins the podcast. What's
something from behind the scenes, something that the audience who
have watched fake wouldn't get to know, kind of like
a funny anecdote that might have happened along the way into.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
While in making it.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
You know, this is one of the trickiest questions to answer.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Do you put this to all your kids?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
And is you're a longboard after you?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah, I'll tell you. I'll tell you a funny thing.
The reason why it's there is because the very first
guest I had was an executive producer from a television show,
and I asked him that question just because I put
it in the rundown and it was interesting. He answered
the question and it got repeated all around the world.
It literally was in I think it was something like
(36:58):
one hundred and eighty articles were created. Did answer? Well.
He was the executive producer of I'm a Celebrity, Get
Me out of Here. And I asked him for what's
you know, a story from behind the scenes, and he
told this story about how he had this celebrity in
the jungle who sat there one day and told this
long story about how he met and had sex with
(37:20):
someone very, very famous. However, he ran out of the
jungle up to the studio camera like to and said,
I just realized that I've told that story in with
time and dates and everything, and I was married at
the time, and.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
You know, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
So he'd run out of the set of the show
like just like a madman, like you know'd been in
that jungle, and that confines with that jungle really just
talking about all this stuff, and then he thought, hang
on a zank, No, I was married when.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
That had running out to tell them that he could
don't play it.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
And what happened?
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Did?
Speaker 2 (37:57):
They didn't?
Speaker 1 (37:58):
They they did. They changed it. And the interesting thing
about that, producer Alex Madverttichers, was that he he didn't
say in the podcast who it was. But what was
really interesting about it was that it spawned the listeners
to try and work out who they thought it was.
So people thought it was Shane Warn, people thought it
(38:18):
was all of these different people. In England, it got
picked up and it was in the press over there.
I launched this TV podcast episode.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Wow, I don't think anywhere. No, nothing juicy. I mean,
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
Do we have a shared anecdote? What anecdotes are not
my strong point.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
I had to say no, not when you're just yeah,
they come into spontaneously memories very difficult.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
I think that happened. Did anything happen? That was kind of.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
What I would like to know is clearly the two
of you don't audition for these things and actually are
a producer of But did you both get together to
see what the chemistry was like between the two of you,
because these two, these two characters, like from the moment
you two meet in that very first scene, you then
build and build and build with the relationship between the
(39:14):
two of you. How did you create that the tension
and the spark between the two of you.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
Well, I guess that's what actors do, you know. I mean,
this sort of strange thing about chemistry were actors.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
This is what actors do.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
And luckily, you know, it's great when you work with
someone and you share a similar process and you have
perhaps a similar sense of humor and you there is
an ease and a relaxation between you, And certainly that's
true of David to Night. You know that that's kind
of wonderful when that happens. But if it's not there
in any given partnership on screen, you create it.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
That's what we do.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
It's interesting, do you remember that quote from I think
it's Jodie Foster and Anthony Hopkins and they both filmed
The Science of the Lamps and they both there together,
you know, the whole way through the film. And to
create that they you know, just their actors. They both
tell the story. They just that was the role they
had to play. But they bore best to each other
later on that they were scared of each other. Anthony
(40:14):
was scared of her as Clarice and she was scared
of him as as Hannibal. Like they were sort of
frightened Ashra I wondered whether or not, you know, at
certain times, did you look at Joe and were you
kind of like, oh, David's Joe is so frightening right now.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
There were plenty of times where I felt very affected
by it, and a lot of the time I wasn't
entire Even though we are very much like to interrogate
the words on the page, I suppose and make sure
that the scene we're going to deliver is what we
wanted to be, there's also plenty of surprise in performance,
(40:49):
you know, and with David there was all the time
I wasn't quite sure what I was going to get,
and I was, you know, did feel like on a
as relaxed and comfortable as we felt together, characters also
were being propelled by a great deal of emotion both
of them, and a need to be understood and a
(41:09):
need to be heard.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
So I think there were plenty of surprises along the way.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
I mean there were for me as we were performing together,
wasn't always sure what was going to come next.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
But I love that. That's the fun.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
That's why you do it, hey, That's why we do it.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Yeah, the story that you know there's many different ways
to tell a story, and it's fun.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
To do that.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
I'm just so in awe of you both as actors people,
and what a joy to be able to talk to
you to both today, particularly about this show, which I
think is just got legs. I think it's going to
get up and run away because very much like Baby Reindeer,
everything about this is compelling. You could come at this
story from so many different angles. So for anyone listening
(41:50):
to us talking about this today, subscribe to Paramount Plus
and disappear into this world. It's compelling and brilliant work
from both of you. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Thanks, thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
Yeah, good chalk, thank you, really good.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Thank you anyway, enjoy chatting. I'll let you both go, but.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
You liked it.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
What's love to you both.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Sayd bye
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