November 13, 2025 • 18 mins
# The Dark Comedy Murder Mystery You Need to Hear About
In this captivating episode of TV Reload, host Ben sits down with the creative minds behind Stan Original's razor-sharp dark comedy "He Had It Coming." Creator/writer Gretel Vella and executive producer Chloe Rickard unpack their brilliantly chaotic series that blends feminist perspectives with murder mystery elements. The show follows two unlikely friends thrust into amateur detective roles on a university campus, exploring modern activism, gender politics, and shifting power dynamics through a distinctly comedic lens.
The conversation reveals how the show's short, punchy episodes perfectly match the frenetic energy of its characters - two "bad feminists" navigating a murder investigation they're woefully unprepared for. Gretel and Chloe discuss their creative influences, from "Only Murders in the Building" to "Search Party," and how they crafted flawed, authentic characters that viewers can genuinely connect with.
## Timestamps and Key Takeaways:
**2:30** - The creators explain how the show's format (short episodes) intentionally matches its frenetic tone and energy
**5:15** - Discussion of how the murder mystery serves as the perfect vehicle to explore gender politics without being heavy-handed
**8:45** - Gretel reveals she identifies more with the character Elise and how viewers will likely see themselves in the characters
**12:20** - Creative influences behind the show, including "Only Murders in the Building" and "Search Party"
**15:40** - The importance of writing flawed, authentic characters that audiences can relate to
**18:30** - How they approached plotting the murder mystery, knowing the killer before laying the clue tracks
**21:15** - The creators' hopes for how viewers will connect with the show's themes
**23:00** - Behind-the-scenes story about filming in 40-degree heat while actors wore full coveralls and masks
If you enjoy dark comedy with a feminist edge, murder mysteries with depth, or simply love watching flawed characters navigate impossible situations, you need to hear this conversation. The creators' insights into their creative process will make you appreciate "He Had It Coming" on a whole new level when you watch it!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's in the news today, but it was actually on
TV Reload.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The podcast that Deep Therebye.
Speaker 3 (00:04):
Yatay, guys, Welcome back to TV Reload Today. On the podcast,
I'm joined by two incredible creatives behind the brand new
Stand original series He Had a Coming. Gretel Vella, the
show's creator and writer, and Chlobe Riccard, executive producer at
Jungle Entertainment, are both here to unpack the brilliant chaos
behind this razor sharp comedy. And it's a dark comedy,
(00:25):
which I'm going to say to you is some of
my favorite humor. He Had a Coming is exactly the
kind of series that can stop you in your tracks.
Gretel's creative approach brings a distinctly feminist perspective, exploring the
contradictions of modern activism, the messiness of gender politics, and
the shifting power dynamics between men and women. The show
blend's social commentary with bold, forward thinking storytelling, using a
(00:48):
murder mystery as the perfect vehicle to expose who really
holds the power in the room. It's clever, it's uncomfortable
in all the right ways, and speaks directly to socially
conscious viewers who love their crime with a bit of
bite on the side, and with Chloe steering the production,
it has that signature jungle entertainment edge fans will probably
recognize if you've seen shows like No Activity and Population eleven.
(01:11):
We talk feminism, humor, contradictions, and why sometimes the best
way to confront a grim topic is to laugh at it.
So guys sit back and relax, says we unpack. He
had it coming with their creators, Gretel and Chloe. How
are you both? You're on my Gold Coast holiday with
me right now?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
We love it funny.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
It is like whenever I'm going to go and do
like a chat, even though I've watched parts of the series,
I always go back and watch it. So I just
watched the first episode right up until chatting with you. Guys.
It's such a great first episode because it's short, it's sharp,
which pretty much is like the essence of this show anyway,
and it has you hooked.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
That's so good to hear.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
We haven't had many people see it yet, so that's exciting.
They're very short episodes. It was strange writing that free
so short.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
You're still doing long forms, so you're able to sort
of chapter it out, but it's punchier. And does that
mean that you're doing this we're getting straight into the minutia.
Is that because you're trying to aim as at younger
people and we're worried about them being on TikTok and
all the rest of it that we've got to get
in there and get out.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Not so much.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
We didn't sort of design it that way, so we
were kind of capturing short attention spans, but it was
it's more about the pace of it. I think the
show has a natural energy and a natural pace, like
these two girls are unlikely friends. They've found themselves in
this situation that they never intended and they're kind of
like they're not equipped to be detectives, and yet here
they are trying to be friends and trying to detectives
(02:37):
and trying to work out who've done it before they
get blamed for it. And I think the pace of
that and the sort of the fever at which they
run around campus trying to work things out, is really
reflected in the format. So the short episodes. Yeah, so
it's sort of like the form matches the.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Tone absolutely, and you know, there's nothing better and getting
two unlikely people, I mean, this is like old school storytelling,
putting two unlikely people and putting them together and making
them sort of nutted out. It works so well with
these particular women because the actors are so great in
these roles.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
They were just our absolute dream cast.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I mean, and you often don't get to see people
together before the day of the table read. And when
the two of them sat down, everyone held their breath
and then they were just so so funny and finding,
you know, comedy in places we hadn't even seen it
in the beginning.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
So yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Is it harder to write when you're not already imagining
people or is there a chance that you know, Gretel
in that process you you were already thinking of these
two women. I don't know how did that come together?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I think right in different ways, but I don't often
see people. I'll see shadows, but I can really hear
a voice more so than seeing people. But they were
definitely I think Chloe when we were going through like
top of List, definitely linear and Natasha for those roles.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
It's so funny because a lot about a lot of
this show is sort of gender politics, and you know,
I'm going to put my hat on and just remind
anyone listening to this podcast that I'm in my forties.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
So I find it.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Incredibly fascinating to look at the generations that are below me.
And the way in which these characters sort of unpack
some of those gender politics without even really shoving it
in your face is so fascinating for the viewer.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
And I think that was really intentional.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I don't think that these women want to address really
any of the problems that they're facing when the show starts,
and then I guess this murder is the inciting incident
that kind of opens the lead on this Pandora's box
of gender politics and really, you know, brings their problems
to light, and then before you know it, they're addressing
you know, in Barbara's instance, the hazing culture and the
behavior of men on campus, and Elisa's instance, you know,
(04:47):
the sexism in the art world, and you know from
her professors toward her. So we wanted it to be
we didn't want it to be in your face. We
wanted it to just be gentle and make the audience
feel safe to go on the journey with two very
hopeless women.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I think so, But you know what, I also find
is so fascinating at the moment. You know, we've got
our Abby chat Fields, We've got our Clementine Ford's, We've
got this sort of conversation that's happening in the media
at the moment about what it is to be a feminist,
And I think that is such a fascinating I mean,
we're always redefining these things, aren't we. Yes, I feel
like this particular show and the characters that you've put
together is unpacking that in a way that I don't know.
(05:24):
It makes it sort of universally accessible to everybody.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I think that was intentional. It means very different things
to different people. And I would say Barbara goes perhaps
a more extreme journey, but I would say Elisa's is
a lot more gentle, and it's about her finding her voice.
But feminism doesn't look like one thing.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
I think is really one of the messages of the show.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I just identify with Elee straight away. There was a
line in the first episode where the you know, as
in Barbara gets the name, she gets her name wrong
or something, and I just remember being at school people
kept calling me Dan instead of Ben, and I realized
that that was the personality that was the role that
I played in high school. I felt seen by this
(06:07):
dialogue and then it made me think about you know,
how much of these characters come from the essence of
of who you are.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Look, I am an Elise through and through. I think. Look,
I think it's like the age old being.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I think when you're writing, there's a little piece of
you in everybody.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I think I'm a lot of the least.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
There was a lot of discussion, I think during production
in the writer's room.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Are you and Barbara? Are you in elite? Yes, very much, Elise.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
I think there'll be lots of people that will be
a Barbara slash Elise. You know how there's there's always
a carry Bradshaw slash Samantha from Sex and the City. Yes, yes,
a lot of viewers will be putting that in there.
But that's the joy of this writing. That's the joy
of the execution of these characters, is that for us
as an audience, we need to see ourselves on screen.
That's the connection and that's what you guys have executed
(06:56):
in a way which Congratulations has done so well. Because
you know this, I mean streaming platforms now, there's so
many ways for people to be entertained, and then you've
created something that's very juicy, very sharp, and still quite gritty.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I I always love the pitch that Barbara and Elise
are bad feminists. I love that idea because when I
think about feminism, like I think that I'm a bad
feminist as well, but I would always say I am
a feminist.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
And I think that idea of like, there's no perfect feminism.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
There's like, you know, you just got to be see
the world, you know as you see it, and you know,
follow your own moral compass. But I love that the
show has no fixed political viewpoint. I think it's got
something for everyone. I think characters move in their view
and I think it's I think that's why it feels
like it's for everyone, because there's sort of an access
point there, like it's not about being perfect, but it's
(07:44):
about trying.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
It's about carry.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Absolutely and I think as well, putting these characters into
this universe where it's not as serious, who've done it,
it's a comedy, Like I think the blend of comedy
and murder mystery sort of connects really well to create
this environment for them. And I think it also is
very accessible for me. Because I love dark. What do
they used to call it with black comedy? I guess
you don't really call it that anymore, but that was
(08:06):
always my jam. Like I loved to die For with
Nicole Kibmen. I don't know if you ever saw that film. Guys,
you've got to go and see this. This film.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
It's so it's.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
If you are Nicole Kidman's best film, and it's written
by the guy that wrote Heathers and a few other
very unusual things, but it is you just find you
either get that humor and you're laughing along with it
or you sort of turned away. But I think you
girls are very to die for. So I love that, Chloe.
(08:40):
When the show first started, do you know I was
getting some really interesting vibes about Romeo and Juliet Basloman's
Romeo and Juliet with the music and the style and
all of putting that all together. Did you have influence
when you were putting this show together about how it
needed to look.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
There were a couple of influences.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
I think the first one was only murders in the
building because of the way that that had a closed world,
and we thought that our university campus, our girls these murders.
It's like all done in a microcosm, so in terms
of like amping up the stakes on everything and their
relationship on the who done it, on the on the politics,
(09:18):
having like a closed circuit environment, So we took inspiration
from only murders in the building for that. I think
Search Party was a really big influence for you, wasn't it,
Gret or do you want to jump in there again?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
It's just that group of friends who shouldn't be trying
to solve a missing persons are thrown into solving it.
That was kind of a key tonal reference because that
show has some real darkness in it, but it's also
very very funny and very high and had a lot
of great side characters too who were very ridiculous. I
think another thing that I love about He Had It
(09:51):
Coming is that we really make a meal of a
lot of these side characters, and there's a lot of
different people you meet at this university as.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Suspects to bring a lot to the comedy too.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
The other thing I will say, well, sorry, Ben, I'm
just in terms of the look and feel, I think
we did take a lot of inspiration from classic art
and music, so you'll notice that the music composition, it
draws on a lot of classical kind of techniques that
reimagines them in a really bold way. And the same
thing I think with Elisa's art it's very much a
political statement in itself as well, and the sandstone buildings
(10:22):
of the university and all that sort of stuff. So
I think like taking the idea of the patriarchy from
very classical kind of art and music references.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yeah, and I think as well the flawed characters, like
I think Rettle as well. The last time we spoke,
we were talking about Totally Completely Fine, and I'm talking
to you about your ability to write people in a
very authentic way like that has a very real tone
about who we are. I think it's Australian's. I think
this show will be accessible. But I remember talking to
you about like love my Way and the inception of
(10:54):
having flawed characters in a TV show and how I
could see that with Totally Completely Fine. And then again,
I feel like you've given us characters that are flawed.
What's your fascination with that? Are you a little bit
flawed yourself?
Speaker 4 (11:07):
We all?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I think with my work, I really like to present
a character one way and then by the end really
lick that expectation.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I just feel like, you know, flawed, broken people are
that there's just so much material there for scripts and
you know, I don't know, I don't know why a gravitard.
I think everyone has a floor at the end of
the day and things that they hide.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
I agree, honestly, I think that that's you know, Muriel's
Wedding is another one of those films where Muriel was
completely flawed. But for some reason, that's my favorite Australian
film because I think, like I was talking about before,
we want to see ourselves on film. We want to
relate to it. And I think sometimes when we see
things that are too polished, you know, it's become quite unaccessible.
Where with these characters, I mean they do borderlined on
(11:55):
a little bit unhinged at times. That could be my
age demographic.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I think also so the university setting, I mean, we
all did it. There's such an element of performance. You're performing,
you know who you think you should be or who
you want to be. I think for both Barbara and
e Lise it's very true. And then I think they
both experience a real stripping back and a real finding
themselves across the show.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Absolutely, and then also, like I was reading because I
had to interview someone just recent there was an English
They were from BritBox, so it was an English produced
I'm serious. And while I was doing the research for
we talked about how they worked out who was the killer,
like who's the bad guy? And apparently Agatha CHRISTI used
to work out the killer and write backwards, and she
had a quote out there somewhere I'm paraphrasing about you know,
(12:41):
the books never worked unless you used the formula that way,
you know, to Pepper in sort of the clues. Yeah,
I'm curious about this because this is a sort of
comedy murder mystery, Like how did you go about that?
Did you know straight away or did you try and
get there with the writing.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
We had a very clear idea, but then I think
we pivoted about halfway through the room.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
But definitely in this instance.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
We needed to know who did it before we started
specifically plotting to really lay the clue tracks.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Are you already thinking season two on what you do
with these characters? I mean, you're very right with the
only murders in the building, you know, and some you
could almost say that those seasons can be quite standalone,
and this could be quite standalone, and these characters can
be elevated and put in a different situation. You know,
where's your head at with all of that.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
I think we actually pitched originally for three seasons, because
as you say, I think there's years years, Yes, fingers crossed.
There is just I mean, there are so many elements
to the story. There's the friendship, there's the gender riot,
there's the murder stuff.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
There's like ample story ground. I think to keep going
with this world one of the questions.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
I also actually I want to ask you just a
little bit about streaming before I move on to that,
and that you know, it's quite interesting with streaming platforms
there's now more of an opportunity to unpack sort of
more diverse and unusual worlds, like we were stuck in
spaces and places where we felt like we had to
talk about certain archetypes in our storytelling. Where now stand
(14:12):
in particular, and I love stand. You're not supposed to
say anything about picking up a streaming platform. You're like
better than the other. But I just think that there's
a real there has been a real opportunity with stand
Over the last few years to explore very different characters.
What's your thoughts on how we've opened this up? I mean, Chloe,
I don't know if you want to speak to that.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, I think it's a nod to where the Australian
market's at. I think, you know, the streamers are now
here and here to stay, and I think the opportunity
for more voices and different stories has kind of evolved
off the back of that. But I think it takes
people to take risks. I think storytellers need to take risks.
(14:51):
I think commissioners need to take risks, and when they
pay off, it's so worthwhile. So it really heartens me
to hear that from a viewer's point of view that
you feel like the are going in the right direction,
because yeah, I certainly think like new voices. I think
voices everything to a show, and new voices that explore
topics and worlds that we haven't seen before, exactly where
(15:14):
you know, I'm excited about, Greta.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
What do you want for your viewers? What do you
want them to take home from this? Like when you
connect with them, like you've connected to me, Like, are
you thinking, oh, this is what I want them to feel,
or this is the take home.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
I the first and foremost want them to have a
good time.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I think I want to shed light on maybe some
of the things that are happening for women on university
campuses and things that.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Need to change.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
And I feel like I want them maybe to see
two women on their feminist journeys and feel like they
can go on one too, or it doesn't have to
be a feminist journey, a political journey of some kind,
or writing an injustice in their life.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
They're great conversations to have. I mean, we're all just
trying to create watercolor moments with content. I think, you know,
we want people to watch content and walk away in
to provoke conversation. And I genuinely think you too, have
absolutely nailed this with this particular show. You guys are
very busy, and I can see my reception in the
Gold Coast is not great. I look a little robotic,
(16:20):
but that's okay. The audio will be fine. I always ask,
what's a behind the scenes secret. I don't know if
either of you want to take this question, but I
always love something that the viewers don't know, but sort
of something that happened behind the scenes, maybe a funny anecdote,
something that went wrong, something that went right by mistake.
I just always think, you know, those behind the scenes moments,
(16:41):
that is what viewers want, probably do have one.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
I feel like one.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
In the pilot when the girls were defacing the statue
and they had these like orange jumpsuits on with like
masks because I was supposed to make sealed from the
security cameras and whatnot. It was the hottest day in
the world, and those two poor actors were like absolutely sweating,
(17:10):
and poor things had to have these full kind of
overall coveralls on, and it was really complicated and really uncomfortable.
I think they went through maybe three different different coveralls
that they had to sort of like rip off and
put new ones on because it was so uncomfortable. And
I just remember that day being like, oh, my goodness,
how have we like dressed our actors in masks and
(17:31):
coveralls on like a forty degree day.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
In Parameta, they always say that the things that are
the hardest to do to execute when you're putting it together,
come across the best, And I'm thinking it's a real
highlight of the energy that these two women have and
the connection that they have at that point. So I'm
glad to hear that there was some blood, sweat, and
tears to go into.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
That literal sweat.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yeah, more sweat. Yeah the blood was faked.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Enjoy chatting with the media this particular show. You know,
I really look forward to keep watching it. I've been
told by my party to super Savid because I can't
watch any more of it until he watched it with me,
which is what you want. But yeah, enjoy this moment
and I can't wait to see how it all comes together.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Thank you, Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Always nice chat to you.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
I know you too.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Totally completely fine. I just thought it was just so
different to anything I'd ever seen before, and I thoroughly,
thoroughly enjoyed being in a different universe. And so when
I saw that you came up for this particular show,
I was like, Okay, super saved that.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Oh that means so much. I know, totally completely fine,
such a special time. I love that show.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Another one with the blood, the sweat and the tears. Anyway,
thank you, thank you always, Thanks pick, and yeah, I
look forward to chatting to you again soon.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Don's good
It's in the news today, but it was actually on
TV Reload.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The podcast that Deep Therebye.
Speaker 3 (00:04):
Yatay, guys, Welcome back to TV Reload Today. On the podcast,
I'm joined by two incredible creatives behind the brand new
Stand original series He Had a Coming. Gretel Vella, the
show's creator and writer, and Chlobe Riccard, executive producer at
Jungle Entertainment, are both here to unpack the brilliant chaos
behind this razor sharp comedy. And it's a dark comedy,
(00:25):
which I'm going to say to you is some of
my favorite humor. He Had a Coming is exactly the
kind of series that can stop you in your tracks.
Gretel's creative approach brings a distinctly feminist perspective, exploring the
contradictions of modern activism, the messiness of gender politics, and
the shifting power dynamics between men and women. The show
blend's social commentary with bold, forward thinking storytelling, using a
(00:48):
murder mystery as the perfect vehicle to expose who really
holds the power in the room. It's clever, it's uncomfortable
in all the right ways, and speaks directly to socially
conscious viewers who love their crime with a bit of
bite on the side, and with Chloe steering the production,
it has that signature jungle entertainment edge fans will probably
recognize if you've seen shows like No Activity and Population eleven.
(01:11):
We talk feminism, humor, contradictions, and why sometimes the best
way to confront a grim topic is to laugh at it.
So guys sit back and relax, says we unpack. He
had it coming with their creators, Gretel and Chloe. How
are you both? You're on my Gold Coast holiday with
me right now?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
We love it funny.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
It is like whenever I'm going to go and do
like a chat, even though I've watched parts of the series,
I always go back and watch it. So I just
watched the first episode right up until chatting with you. Guys.
It's such a great first episode because it's short, it's sharp,
which pretty much is like the essence of this show anyway,
and it has you hooked.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
That's so good to hear.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
We haven't had many people see it yet, so that's exciting.
They're very short episodes. It was strange writing that free
so short.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
You're still doing long forms, so you're able to sort
of chapter it out, but it's punchier. And does that
mean that you're doing this we're getting straight into the minutia.
Is that because you're trying to aim as at younger
people and we're worried about them being on TikTok and
all the rest of it that we've got to get
in there and get out.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Not so much.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
We didn't sort of design it that way, so we
were kind of capturing short attention spans, but it was
it's more about the pace of it. I think the
show has a natural energy and a natural pace, like
these two girls are unlikely friends. They've found themselves in
this situation that they never intended and they're kind of
like they're not equipped to be detectives, and yet here
they are trying to be friends and trying to detectives
(02:37):
and trying to work out who've done it before they
get blamed for it. And I think the pace of
that and the sort of the fever at which they
run around campus trying to work things out, is really
reflected in the format. So the short episodes. Yeah, so
it's sort of like the form matches the.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Tone absolutely, and you know, there's nothing better and getting
two unlikely people, I mean, this is like old school storytelling,
putting two unlikely people and putting them together and making
them sort of nutted out. It works so well with
these particular women because the actors are so great in
these roles.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
They were just our absolute dream cast.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I mean, and you often don't get to see people
together before the day of the table read. And when
the two of them sat down, everyone held their breath
and then they were just so so funny and finding,
you know, comedy in places we hadn't even seen it
in the beginning.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
So yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Is it harder to write when you're not already imagining
people or is there a chance that you know, Gretel
in that process you you were already thinking of these
two women. I don't know how did that come together?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I think right in different ways, but I don't often
see people. I'll see shadows, but I can really hear
a voice more so than seeing people. But they were
definitely I think Chloe when we were going through like
top of List, definitely linear and Natasha for those roles.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
It's so funny because a lot about a lot of
this show is sort of gender politics, and you know,
I'm going to put my hat on and just remind
anyone listening to this podcast that I'm in my forties.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
So I find it.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Incredibly fascinating to look at the generations that are below me.
And the way in which these characters sort of unpack
some of those gender politics without even really shoving it
in your face is so fascinating for the viewer.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
And I think that was really intentional.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I don't think that these women want to address really
any of the problems that they're facing when the show starts,
and then I guess this murder is the inciting incident
that kind of opens the lead on this Pandora's box
of gender politics and really, you know, brings their problems
to light, and then before you know it, they're addressing
you know, in Barbara's instance, the hazing culture and the
behavior of men on campus, and Elisa's instance, you know,
(04:47):
the sexism in the art world, and you know from
her professors toward her. So we wanted it to be
we didn't want it to be in your face. We
wanted it to just be gentle and make the audience
feel safe to go on the journey with two very
hopeless women.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I think so, But you know what, I also find
is so fascinating at the moment. You know, we've got
our Abby chat Fields, We've got our Clementine Ford's, We've
got this sort of conversation that's happening in the media
at the moment about what it is to be a feminist,
And I think that is such a fascinating I mean,
we're always redefining these things, aren't we. Yes, I feel
like this particular show and the characters that you've put
together is unpacking that in a way that I don't know.
(05:24):
It makes it sort of universally accessible to everybody.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I think that was intentional. It means very different things
to different people. And I would say Barbara goes perhaps
a more extreme journey, but I would say Elisa's is
a lot more gentle, and it's about her finding her voice.
But feminism doesn't look like one thing.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
I think is really one of the messages of the show.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I just identify with Elee straight away. There was a
line in the first episode where the you know, as
in Barbara gets the name, she gets her name wrong
or something, and I just remember being at school people
kept calling me Dan instead of Ben, and I realized
that that was the personality that was the role that
I played in high school. I felt seen by this
(06:07):
dialogue and then it made me think about you know,
how much of these characters come from the essence of
of who you are.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Look, I am an Elise through and through. I think. Look,
I think it's like the age old being.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I think when you're writing, there's a little piece of
you in everybody.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I think I'm a lot of the least.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
There was a lot of discussion, I think during production
in the writer's room.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Are you and Barbara? Are you in elite? Yes, very much, Elise.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
I think there'll be lots of people that will be
a Barbara slash Elise. You know how there's there's always
a carry Bradshaw slash Samantha from Sex and the City. Yes, yes,
a lot of viewers will be putting that in there.
But that's the joy of this writing. That's the joy
of the execution of these characters, is that for us
as an audience, we need to see ourselves on screen.
That's the connection and that's what you guys have executed
(06:56):
in a way which Congratulations has done so well. Because
you know this, I mean streaming platforms now, there's so
many ways for people to be entertained, and then you've
created something that's very juicy, very sharp, and still quite gritty.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I I always love the pitch that Barbara and Elise
are bad feminists. I love that idea because when I
think about feminism, like I think that I'm a bad
feminist as well, but I would always say I am
a feminist.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
And I think that idea of like, there's no perfect feminism.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
There's like, you know, you just got to be see
the world, you know as you see it, and you know,
follow your own moral compass. But I love that the
show has no fixed political viewpoint. I think it's got
something for everyone. I think characters move in their view
and I think it's I think that's why it feels
like it's for everyone, because there's sort of an access
point there, like it's not about being perfect, but it's
(07:44):
about trying.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
It's about carry.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Absolutely and I think as well, putting these characters into
this universe where it's not as serious, who've done it,
it's a comedy, Like I think the blend of comedy
and murder mystery sort of connects really well to create
this environment for them. And I think it also is
very accessible for me. Because I love dark. What do
they used to call it with black comedy? I guess
you don't really call it that anymore, but that was
(08:06):
always my jam. Like I loved to die For with
Nicole Kibmen. I don't know if you ever saw that film. Guys,
you've got to go and see this. This film.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
It's so it's.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
If you are Nicole Kidman's best film, and it's written
by the guy that wrote Heathers and a few other
very unusual things, but it is you just find you
either get that humor and you're laughing along with it
or you sort of turned away. But I think you
girls are very to die for. So I love that, Chloe.
(08:40):
When the show first started, do you know I was
getting some really interesting vibes about Romeo and Juliet Basloman's
Romeo and Juliet with the music and the style and
all of putting that all together. Did you have influence
when you were putting this show together about how it
needed to look.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
There were a couple of influences.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
I think the first one was only murders in the
building because of the way that that had a closed world,
and we thought that our university campus, our girls these murders.
It's like all done in a microcosm, so in terms
of like amping up the stakes on everything and their
relationship on the who done it, on the on the politics,
(09:18):
having like a closed circuit environment, So we took inspiration
from only murders in the building for that. I think
Search Party was a really big influence for you, wasn't it,
Gret or do you want to jump in there again?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
It's just that group of friends who shouldn't be trying
to solve a missing persons are thrown into solving it.
That was kind of a key tonal reference because that
show has some real darkness in it, but it's also
very very funny and very high and had a lot
of great side characters too who were very ridiculous. I
think another thing that I love about He Had It
(09:51):
Coming is that we really make a meal of a
lot of these side characters, and there's a lot of
different people you meet at this university as.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Suspects to bring a lot to the comedy too.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
The other thing I will say, well, sorry, Ben, I'm
just in terms of the look and feel, I think
we did take a lot of inspiration from classic art
and music, so you'll notice that the music composition, it
draws on a lot of classical kind of techniques that
reimagines them in a really bold way. And the same
thing I think with Elisa's art it's very much a
political statement in itself as well, and the sandstone buildings
(10:22):
of the university and all that sort of stuff. So
I think like taking the idea of the patriarchy from
very classical kind of art and music references.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yeah, and I think as well the flawed characters, like
I think Rettle as well. The last time we spoke,
we were talking about Totally Completely Fine, and I'm talking
to you about your ability to write people in a
very authentic way like that has a very real tone
about who we are. I think it's Australian's. I think
this show will be accessible. But I remember talking to
you about like love my Way and the inception of
(10:54):
having flawed characters in a TV show and how I
could see that with Totally Completely Fine. And then again,
I feel like you've given us characters that are flawed.
What's your fascination with that? Are you a little bit
flawed yourself?
Speaker 4 (11:07):
We all?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I think with my work, I really like to present
a character one way and then by the end really
lick that expectation.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I just feel like, you know, flawed, broken people are
that there's just so much material there for scripts and
you know, I don't know, I don't know why a gravitard.
I think everyone has a floor at the end of
the day and things that they hide.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
I agree, honestly, I think that that's you know, Muriel's
Wedding is another one of those films where Muriel was
completely flawed. But for some reason, that's my favorite Australian
film because I think, like I was talking about before,
we want to see ourselves on film. We want to
relate to it. And I think sometimes when we see
things that are too polished, you know, it's become quite unaccessible.
Where with these characters, I mean they do borderlined on
(11:55):
a little bit unhinged at times. That could be my
age demographic.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I think also so the university setting, I mean, we
all did it. There's such an element of performance. You're performing,
you know who you think you should be or who
you want to be. I think for both Barbara and
e Lise it's very true. And then I think they
both experience a real stripping back and a real finding
themselves across the show.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Absolutely, and then also, like I was reading because I
had to interview someone just recent there was an English
They were from BritBox, so it was an English produced
I'm serious. And while I was doing the research for
we talked about how they worked out who was the killer,
like who's the bad guy? And apparently Agatha CHRISTI used
to work out the killer and write backwards, and she
had a quote out there somewhere I'm paraphrasing about you know,
(12:41):
the books never worked unless you used the formula that way,
you know, to Pepper in sort of the clues. Yeah,
I'm curious about this because this is a sort of
comedy murder mystery, Like how did you go about that?
Did you know straight away or did you try and
get there with the writing.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
We had a very clear idea, but then I think
we pivoted about halfway through the room.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
But definitely in this instance.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
We needed to know who did it before we started
specifically plotting to really lay the clue tracks.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Are you already thinking season two on what you do
with these characters? I mean, you're very right with the
only murders in the building, you know, and some you
could almost say that those seasons can be quite standalone,
and this could be quite standalone, and these characters can
be elevated and put in a different situation. You know,
where's your head at with all of that.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
I think we actually pitched originally for three seasons, because
as you say, I think there's years years, Yes, fingers crossed.
There is just I mean, there are so many elements
to the story. There's the friendship, there's the gender riot,
there's the murder stuff.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
There's like ample story ground. I think to keep going
with this world one of the questions.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
I also actually I want to ask you just a
little bit about streaming before I move on to that,
and that you know, it's quite interesting with streaming platforms
there's now more of an opportunity to unpack sort of
more diverse and unusual worlds, like we were stuck in
spaces and places where we felt like we had to
talk about certain archetypes in our storytelling. Where now stand
(14:12):
in particular, and I love stand. You're not supposed to
say anything about picking up a streaming platform. You're like
better than the other. But I just think that there's
a real there has been a real opportunity with stand
Over the last few years to explore very different characters.
What's your thoughts on how we've opened this up? I mean, Chloe,
I don't know if you want to speak to that.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, I think it's a nod to where the Australian
market's at. I think, you know, the streamers are now
here and here to stay, and I think the opportunity
for more voices and different stories has kind of evolved
off the back of that. But I think it takes
people to take risks. I think storytellers need to take risks.
(14:51):
I think commissioners need to take risks, and when they
pay off, it's so worthwhile. So it really heartens me
to hear that from a viewer's point of view that
you feel like the are going in the right direction,
because yeah, I certainly think like new voices. I think
voices everything to a show, and new voices that explore
topics and worlds that we haven't seen before, exactly where
(15:14):
you know, I'm excited about, Greta.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
What do you want for your viewers? What do you
want them to take home from this? Like when you
connect with them, like you've connected to me, Like, are
you thinking, oh, this is what I want them to feel,
or this is the take home.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
I the first and foremost want them to have a
good time.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I think I want to shed light on maybe some
of the things that are happening for women on university
campuses and things that.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Need to change.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
And I feel like I want them maybe to see
two women on their feminist journeys and feel like they
can go on one too, or it doesn't have to
be a feminist journey, a political journey of some kind,
or writing an injustice in their life.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
They're great conversations to have. I mean, we're all just
trying to create watercolor moments with content. I think, you know,
we want people to watch content and walk away in
to provoke conversation. And I genuinely think you too, have
absolutely nailed this with this particular show. You guys are
very busy, and I can see my reception in the
Gold Coast is not great. I look a little robotic,
(16:20):
but that's okay. The audio will be fine. I always ask,
what's a behind the scenes secret. I don't know if
either of you want to take this question, but I
always love something that the viewers don't know, but sort
of something that happened behind the scenes, maybe a funny anecdote,
something that went wrong, something that went right by mistake.
I just always think, you know, those behind the scenes moments,
(16:41):
that is what viewers want, probably do have one.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
I feel like one.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
In the pilot when the girls were defacing the statue
and they had these like orange jumpsuits on with like
masks because I was supposed to make sealed from the
security cameras and whatnot. It was the hottest day in
the world, and those two poor actors were like absolutely sweating,
(17:10):
and poor things had to have these full kind of
overall coveralls on, and it was really complicated and really uncomfortable.
I think they went through maybe three different different coveralls
that they had to sort of like rip off and
put new ones on because it was so uncomfortable. And
I just remember that day being like, oh, my goodness,
how have we like dressed our actors in masks and
(17:31):
coveralls on like a forty degree day.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
In Parameta, they always say that the things that are
the hardest to do to execute when you're putting it together,
come across the best, And I'm thinking it's a real
highlight of the energy that these two women have and
the connection that they have at that point. So I'm
glad to hear that there was some blood, sweat, and
tears to go into.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
That literal sweat.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yeah, more sweat. Yeah the blood was faked.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Enjoy chatting with the media this particular show. You know,
I really look forward to keep watching it. I've been
told by my party to super Savid because I can't
watch any more of it until he watched it with me,
which is what you want. But yeah, enjoy this moment
and I can't wait to see how it all comes together.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Thank you, Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Always nice chat to you.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
I know you too.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Totally completely fine. I just thought it was just so
different to anything I'd ever seen before, and I thoroughly,
thoroughly enjoyed being in a different universe. And so when
I saw that you came up for this particular show,
I was like, Okay, super saved that.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Oh that means so much. I know, totally completely fine,
such a special time. I love that show.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Another one with the blood, the sweat and the tears. Anyway,
thank you, thank you always, Thanks pick, and yeah, I
look forward to chatting to you again soon.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Don's good
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