August 31, 2023 • 37 mins
On today’s podcast, I have reality Australian TV royalty ‘Luke Toki’ here to talk about his time on ‘The Traitors.’ Which has been been a brilliant second season on ‘Network Ten.’
'Luke' first appeared on 'Australian Survivor' in 2017 and won over the general public like no other contestants before him. An impressive fact about his first appearance coming third on that season was a ‘Go Fund’ me page, set up for him by the general public, which raised the $500,000 prize money that he narrowly missed out on. (Something I don’t think has ever happened around the world on a reality show.)
He reappeared on 'Australian Survivor' in 2019 champions vs contenders but was cut short of the win by 'Pia Mirranda' who was smart enough to realise 'Luke' was going to be too hard to beat in the final tribal council.
He won 'Big Brother VIP' in 2021 something that has been completely omitted from his resume on 'The Traitors' this year and you better believe I will ask him about that today.
‘The Traitors’ season two has levelled up and watching these contestants work as a team to uncover who is a ‘traitor’ and who is a ‘faithful’ is delicious television.
- I will ask 'Luke' about his ability to read a room and we will talk about a possible career with police investigation - which I think he would be really good at..
- We will unpack the first few weeks twists and turns. Where you will find out how he came to the conclusion 'Ash,' 'Sam' and 'Blake' were ‘traitors.’
- 'Luke' will talk about his relationship with 'Annabel' and 'Sam' and we will get a few names of previous contestants that are no longer on his Christmas-Card list.
Plus we will get plenty of exclusives from behind the scenes of ‘The Traitors.’ Which continues next Monday night at 7:30 on ‘Network Ten’ and you can now catch up on - on ‘Ten Play.’
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's in the news today, but it was actually on
TV Reload the podcast past week that light. Welcome TV
Reload listeners. As you may know, my name is Benjamin
Norris and this is your podcast to get all the
inside goss on the popular TV shows you may be
watching from around the world. Undeniably, our TV sets are
a major part of our home entertainment, and yet very
little is known about how our favorite shows get made.
(00:22):
So each episode, I've been finding guests that want to
dive just that little bit deeper into the shows they're
currently making, so that you can hear all their exclusive
stories and gain access to the biggest names in Australian television.
I want to thank you for downloading or subscribing to
this podcast however you've found me. I love hearing your feedback,
so make sure you leave a review or a comment
on your chosen podcast platform. On today's podcast, I have
(00:45):
Australian reality TV Royalty. It's Luke Toki. He's here to
talk about his time on The Traders, which has been
a brilliant second series for Network ten. I am doing
this as a bonus episode as I already had Annabelle
on earlier, but I simply couldn't miss talking to Luke
as I'm a bit of a superfan. Luke first appeared
on Australian Survivor in twenty seventeen and won over the
(01:07):
general public like no other contestant before him. An impressive
fact about his first appearance on television. He came third
on that season of Survivor and there was a GoFundMe
page which was set up by the general public which
raised over a half a million dollars prize money that
he narrowly missed out on the show, something that I
don't really think has ever happened around the world or
(01:28):
ever since. He reappeared on Australian Survivor in twenty nineteen
as a champion champions versus contenders. I think that series
was but his time on that show was also cut
short when it came to Pia Miranda, who was smart
enough to realize that Luke going into that final tribal
council would be way too hot to beat. He went
on to win Big Brother Vip in twenty twenty one,
(01:49):
something that has been completely omitted from his resume on
The Traders this year, And you better believe I'm going
to ask him a little bit about that today. The
Traders this season has totally leveled up and watching these
contestants work as a team to uncover who is a
Trader and who is a faithful he's simply delicious television.
I will ask Luke about his ability to read a room,
(02:10):
and we will talk about the possibility of having a
career as a police investigator. We will unpack the first
few weeks, then the twists and turns that it came with,
where you will find out how he came to the
conclusion that Ash, Sam and Blake were Traders. Luke will
talk about his relationship with Annabelle and Sam, and we
will also get a few names of previous contestants that
(02:31):
are no longer on the Christmas List. Plus, we will
get plenty of exclusives from behind the scenes of The
Traders season two, which continues Sunday night at seven thirty
on Network ten and you can now catch up on Tenplate. Anyway,
let's bring Luke into the podcast. I will try not
to be too much of a fangirl and I hope
you guys enjoyed this very insightful look at The Traders
season two. Hi, Luke, Welcome, to TV reload. You know
(02:54):
what's really funny is that I've nearly had you on
this podcast three times before this, so this is great
to finally chat to you.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah. I don't know why I've missed you so many times,
but it's good to finally Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
You know, shoot it, I have to disclose I was
talking about you. I'd been doing some of these exit
interviews for the Traders, and I've been saying to everyone,
why didn't you get rid of Luke asap?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Nah? But it's you can't trust me. But the thing is,
I'm too much fun to be around, so you can
always get me at a later stage. And you know what,
as well, is I'm actually a good friend in these games.
If you find that every single show, I actually will
protect my friends to the death. As much as I'm
(03:37):
too scary to be around, it's better for you to
have me on my team than to be against me.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
That's the reason why I would have gotten rid of
you straight away. I think the longer you were in
there in any game, I'd be like, we need to
get rid of him straight away because he will develop
better friendships than me, and I will love him and
I'll probably self a victim.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Oh my god, that's so funny. It seems to me
like that way, you know they do say so it's
like socially, you can't get along with everyone, and you're
going to find those little cracks and people that dislike
each other. But yeah, and I do exploit them as
much as possible because if it benefits my game. The
ultimate goal is to win, right, come home without two
hundred and fifty thousand, that big briefcase full of bars,
(04:19):
and as you're right, if you give me enough time
to get my claws into the game, good luck trying
to get me out.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I know it drives me wild on reality shows because
I can always pick the person that's you. Even when
they brought Big Brother back, I was like, why would
they leave Reggie in there at all? Like I said,
I know, she's a sweet, lovely fish and chip shop lady,
but get rid of her asap because the longer she's
in here, the less chance you're ever going to get
to get.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Rid of her. Exactly. It really became with that situation
with reg It was like you can just see that
people just wanted her to win. I think that, you know,
these shows, you do fine. Sometimes these seasons. There's people
in there that completely forget that they are in there
to win for themselves and not for the person that
(05:04):
potentially sometimes is manipulating them even you know, because they
just see what they see on face value. But there
might be one person that's playing a game and the
others just purely relying on their emotions and how they feel.
Where the best players they have no emotion.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I'm ruthless because, like I will work out who I
can't beat, who I like, and who I don't like.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, well it's like chess, right, Some people play the
game like chess, and each other person or character in
the game is a chess piece. That's how I play,
and we move around. Don't get me wrong. You do
create bonds and you do create friendships, but that has
to come second if you are have any choice or
(05:48):
any chance of wanting to actually win two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars. And we've seen last year on The
Traders just how ruthless, how the emotional dammy that you
can put on someone will always come second to winning.
And that's what the TV show wants, So you give them,
give the fans what.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I have a theory that you know, when you're in
a show. Maybe this works more for Survivor than it
does for the Traders. But do you feel like, if
you're a noisy, entertaining player, just go hard with that
because you will somehow be protected. Maybe not my producers,
because that's probably not the right way to look at it.
But you know, do you feel like by being an
outrageous player, you get more screen time and they can't
(06:31):
afford to lose you.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Like, definitely more screen time, But I don't think the
afford to lose you situation. I think it's just sometimes
it works out and sometimes it doesn't. I feel like
if I got voted out my first season Survivor, as
I said, and in the first three or four episodes,
I would have just been the loud mouth, goofy guy
(06:53):
that didn't know how to play the game. But over time,
because you last long and you go further than they
can actually build off your character and your personality and
get a bit of depth to you. But someone like
Angelica Elias, you know, paid and all these players that
you've only just first seen firsthand, we really never got
(07:14):
to witness anything out of them. You never got to
see the character development or the real person underneath, and
how strategic some of those guys will be. You just
got to see that they are erratic when their name
got thrown out and next minute they're gone. For instance
Paid and if he didn't get murdered and he stuck
with me for some longer time, he could have been
(07:34):
the Annabelle. But you just didn't get that showing. And
you know, for instance, with me, everyone already knows from
watching my last show, so there's no character development really
needed with me already come with like the resume, would
you say? You know, but like in saying that, that's
where you've got to have a shot. And that's where
the craziness comes into, because it's sometimes better to have
(07:56):
a crazy three or four episodes and get voted out,
to sit down with the family and watch it every
night for three or four episodes and you're not even
in the show and then you're eliminated. So and that's why,
that's why sometimes my timing can be off, because I
know that with this show, Me and Animal, like throwing
shade to Sam and Blake, it was like, yeah, maybe, say,
(08:19):
for instance, if I didn't protect Animal, I might have
gone a bit further, But you know what if they
recruited me that night because they knew there was no
other way. I get another episode in the game, and
I've also declared who they are, and for instance, I
could have survived the next one, and then I go
on to win, and everyone's going to be like, oh
my god, what an absolute crazy game. So you kind
(08:42):
of you look at the as you said, like you're
going to go all in sometimes and I hope for
the best and I think I will always And this
is in real life and external in the games and stuff,
is always have your buddies back, even if it costs
you your game, because because everyone can relate to that.
You know, it's like you and your brother, or you
(09:04):
and your sister, or some shit's happening to you and
you want someone.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
To stick up for you, whether it be at school,
whether it's whether it's on these shows, whether it's at work.
There's bullies, there's there's people that will always gang up
sometimes on the weakest, you know, and when that time comes,
you wish you had that one friend that would go
into war even they know they're going to get beaten
up or they're going to get destroyed.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
It's like it's just a good human character. That what
is it? Good winds over evil? You know, yeah, And
it's something that I've always sucked by and I will
always you know, good winds over evil eventually and it
always does. And I watched Survivor right and people write
down their own brother's names on blood versut water, or
(09:50):
their own mother's names. And I look at that and
I'm like, I could never do, you know, how like
how awkward that would be for the rest of our relationship.
Like We've just got like seventy years to lit and
I'm going to sit there and listen to my brother
or mother going, you voted me out, you asshole.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
The minute that you turn on that person, audiences will
never give you the money. You may stay an extra episode,
never win.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
So it's because we see him in real life breed
putting yourself over obviously everyone is. It's not a trait
that we all love, you know, because we see it
throughout life in every aspect. It's always money and greed
and power as a human trait as well, where you
don't put yourself first, you put your friend first, you
(10:40):
put your partner first, you put your kids first, and
sometimes it works out and that favor gets repaid later
on in life, you know, helping that old lady across
the road, as I say, and then you go to
a job interview and that old lady is your boss. Coma.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
You know, I think your elimination was a waste of
your paycheck. Though, to be eliminated off Hamra He is
the opposite of the perfect storm. It is the light
shower we didn't deserve.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Do you know what's even worse. I got dressed up
hell nice that morning and I was waiting to go
down to breakfast, and I was like, oh, well, it
must be the last person in so I thought there
was still that small chance they could have recruited me,
And it wasn't until it got closer to the midday
that's when I realized no longer.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
One of the things I was curious about is why
did they omit you being the winner of Big Brother?
Because that seemed like a really big part of your
career and also a huge part of your resume. Did
they talk to you about why that would not be
mentioned Big Brother?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I don't know if wether it just didn't view well
or the ratings or many people have seen it, but
that question never came up, So I never ever brought
up that I had one big brother. So the fact is,
as far as everyone knew, I was just the shit
Survivor player that's lost twice.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Did you do the research and watch the Traders version
that had just happened season I think it was either
the English one or the American one where they had
two winners from Big Brother come back, And did you
see that moment where one of the winners was like, Oh,
they're lucky to have me here, they get to meet me,
Like they had this really out of like it was
just bonkers to see them talk about themselves like that.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I do think my Big Brother background will help me
in here.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I can manipulate everyone.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
This is like my chance.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
To use their fandom of me to my advantage. So
I'm kind of an icon. What did you think of
that moment?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Look, I think that people can get caught up in
the storm of TV being known around the country, and
even people say, oh, you meet Caitlin, Jenny, You've met
like you know all these people, And I'm like, yeah,
they're like they're actually really nice and amazing people.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
But do you know who's more amazing? My friends in
my life?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
That I've known for the last fifteen years because they
have seen me come and go and be around do everything,
and we sit down and we laugh and have the
best time ever.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
And do you know what, whether they're known or not known,
it does not matter.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Like that's where you don't let yourself get swept up
in these parties and events and people who know people.
You treat people how you would like to be treated.
And as much as Caitlyn Jenner's great, do you know what,
I don't want to hang out with a seventy year
old woman.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
I take my grandma out for lunch if I want
to hang out with.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
A seven year old woman, you know, because it's not
it doesn't interest me, I guess.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I mean, you would have been asked to do a
lot of these shows. I mean, how many shows have
you been asked to do? Can you reveal anything else?
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Not?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Really? I think The Traders was a perfect little one
for me to come back to after The Big Brother.
I was like kind of wanted to wrap it up,
felt like, you know, I've done what I wanted to
do and whatever, because I got the w but like
you know, like someone that just can't give up their
career like that footy player making that second run to
get my fingers and or get my toes wet in
(14:02):
Traders has been such good.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
And to be back with ten and to just like
you know, just meet.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Everyone, and also to get it right. I think I
had a good run, like I yeah, like it could
always be worse than it can always be better, you know,
just the factors this game. I was actually able to
talk the truth a bit, you know, I was able
to sit there and say, like, it wasn't about me
creating lies and stirring the pot and creating massive amount
of drama. It was more me putting my gut to work,
(14:32):
my intuition, my my social strategy, my skills, and you know,
like I guess finding the murderer, finding the bad person.
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the Australian Federal
Police had reached out to me and wanted me to
be an undercover cop, or.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I'm surprised that hasn't happened. Your skill set is so ridiculous.
You're so good at reading people. I mean, you probably
can't even admit to me right now that Asio has
been in contact with you.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah yeah, yeah, nah. Well that's what I'm saying. It's
like I definitely probably should start my own firm or something,
because the proof is in the pudding.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I'm now four seasons in and I've been able to
and I've got a pretty good record of being able
to work things out and understand how people are going
to react to certain things. And like I'm not I'm
not perfect. I get things wrong, but in an overall
scheme of things, the Traders is just an example of
how how well I can put it together, you know,
(15:31):
and how well I can judge and read a situation.
Because even for us to work it out that we
think a trader has turned on a trader, that's a
big It's like, you know, it's like it's like three D.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Chess, right, no one. And that's why I said that
if animal went, can you imagine me trying to explain
that to everyone, Everyone be like loops off his head
because it is.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
It's so everyone likes it to be basic, very easy
to understand and to sit there and explain to someone. Listen,
I think a trader turned on a trader, and then
they obviously have a recruited like to make themselves look
like a faithful and I'm doing that by myself. People
are like, man, this luke's been in this game for
(16:17):
too long. He's got spiders on his brain.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
When you arrived and you realized you're not a trader,
you're a faithful and you're their day one, what's the
order of people you assumed were traders?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Okay, so naturally you're in a car with Anabel, Me, Gloria,
and Sam. And when me and Sam actually started chatting
in the car, you could just tell where the two
boys we're going to kick it off right. It's like
if we're in a class of school, if we're playing
sport together, they'd be like, yeah, we get along very well.
We're very similar in a way, and we're just going
(16:50):
to have each other's backs. When the actual the nomination
for the traders were picked, it wasn't until so we
all got picked. It was hard looking around everyone. But
once we got out of that room, everyone formed groups
and we're talking. And I noticed that in that small
window of knowing Sam, and then the window of being
touched on the shoulder, and then now he's in group situations,
(17:13):
you could just see him in these small groups and
he's beside me three or four people, and his demeanor
changed hugely. It was like he was thinking about how
he's going to go about being playing this trader position,
because while everyone's.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Talking, he's like nodding and like kind of not really
being that.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Funny or engaging in these small convos. And in my head,
I was like, that's a massive change in personality. And
then obviously after a day he went back to normal.
He went back to d you know, insane and being
quite direct. And I've played with a lot of players
like that that like to tell you what to do.
(17:56):
It's nearly like they have a ulterior motive. They have
a motive in just saying But it's like, say, for instance,
you live under the rule of your parents, and your
parents tell you to clean your room or tell you
to do something, you kind of have to because you
live under your parents' rule. But as you get older
(18:16):
and if you are living in a house with a
friend and he's kind of always you know, the shop
caller in the house, you can even roll it up
with two ways. You can always agree with him, or
you can listen to them and work out what their
motives are and work out how they're behaving and how
they can why are they telling you to do this
(18:38):
and why are they asserting dominance? You can make them
know that you are unhappy and you disagree, and you
can have arguments about it whatever, right in front of
or you can play the game behind the scenes behind
them until you're knife because you know that, for instance,
you don't agree what they're doing and you don't agree
what they're saying.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
But I'll go along for now and play dumb.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
And be your little sidekick. But in the times right,
I'll get you. And that's kind of how we thought
we'd play, and it had nothing to do with Sam's personality.
I like Sam. I've got all the time in the
world for Sam. But unfortunately I worked out you're a trader.
You're my best friend is a trader in this game,
and unfortunately I was there to get traders, and I
(19:22):
had to put that friendship aside and try to get him.
Probably could have waited later, he might have kept me
in the game. But if he had not kept me
in the game, then I would have just been another
dummy on that show.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
You're saying to me that you picked Sam straight away?
Did you pick Ash? Did you pick Blake?
Speaker 4 (19:40):
So I kind of tried to play the middle ground.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
So at that time, it was like I felt like
I was really close with Addabelle, I was really close
with Sam, Me and Gloria you didn't see were also
she was in the mix of that car kind of thing.
So we all had this like I guess, like a
not a pack, but a bit of like a situation
where we kind of just had each other's because we
had that time to meet each other before meeting all
(20:03):
the rest.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
So we tried to use that as our advantage.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
But at the same time, you could see clicks forming,
So it's a bit like high school, you know, you
see Roha, Hannah and Ash. They were becoming very tight.
And I'm going to look at that very clearly and go, well,
that's a three. If I need to get votes, I
want to either pivot with them or pivot with Sam
and my group. But at the same time, you never
(20:27):
ever close off your enemies. So at that time they
would technically have been my enemy and in that game.
But in saying that, what if Ash got Sam out
and the votes did go to Sam, well, I wanted
to pivot and be with that group with Ash, and
knowing that.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
Ash is now a trader and Ash will protect me.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
So Ash you thought was a trader straight away? Is
that what you're saying?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
No, no, no, I thought Ash was a trader roughly
when she started real pressing me about who's been throwing
my name around there at that break when she we
did a real clear handshake and then I said, well,
Sam is and I could just see the reaction was
not a reaction where it made me. I was very
(21:11):
aware that Ash was a big personality and a very
strong personality, and she's not easy to be pushed around.
And then when I realized that Sam wanted to ash
out and he was quite forceful about it, it's like, where's
this coming from? So it's easy to put two and
two together where you're like, wait a minute, he's nearly
overplaying his hand right now because he wants ash out.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
And the only the only thing that made me think.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Is like these guys are up at Trader's Tower not
getting along, and because they're not that close outside of
anywhere else, So where's this like I can't deal with
Ash situation because everywhere else you don't have to deal
with her. So why, as you you know, why is
you like I can't deal with Ash. It's like, because
you have to deal with Ash, and the only reason
(21:57):
you have to deal with us because she must be
up in the tower. And that just set off alarm
bell as we were just bang bang, And it's easy
when I go to Annabel and I go, hey, this
is what I think, and she goes, boom, that's what
I'm thinking. And so I could sit there and say
to Hannah, I'll be like, you know Sam this, and
then next minute she would just look off and this
is oh and You're like yeah nah, And then you
(22:20):
can you can pull back on that statement and go yeah, no.
I was just kind of floating it because you look
at the people's reactions and go, Okay, they didn't react
how Annabel reacted.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Annabel went, that's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
You said. Look at Ian. I said to Ian, I go,
who else could you vote other than Limb? And he goes,
well you, And that made me go, well god, I'm
like he's not even picking up that there's there's a
tiny chance that I'm having this conversation to save him.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
As soon as he said me, I was like, you
would get.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Eaten alive in Survivor. I'm so used to playing with
high calibus social players that keep their cards close and
don't overplay their hand, and people lying to my face
and I'm lying to them. But we can still hold
a good hours long conversation. The whole hour would be fake,
a fake conversation for a whole hour. I can still
(23:15):
hold one, and a good survivor player can as well.
There was something happened in this show where it didn't
make the cut, but Hayden and Elias were arguing quite
argue about, you know, throwing each other's names out or
whatever it was. And I said to Elias, I said, look, listen,
because I trusted that both of them were faithful. They
just wear their heart and their sleeves. They're those kind
(23:36):
of people, you know. And I said, look, Alias, I
go do this for me. Pretend that because I told
them to make up, I said, make up like they
finally made up.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
I said, LIUs, please tell.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Everyone that you still are suss On Hayden and Peyden.
You please tell everyone you'll still sus on a Lis,
but be friends and make up and vote together. And
the last goes, why the hell would I do that?
I'm like, oh my god. It's layered gameplay it means
that the traders would think that us will never vote
(24:12):
together and that youth can get banished in those banishment
rooms because use it at each other. But he couldn't
understand the layered level of it so instantly. Again, that
makes me go, all right, he's going to be hard
to upskill to the point where he can hide his emotions.
But yeah, I'm just a gamer, to make it simple,
(24:33):
I'm a bloody gamer in there, and I want to win.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
It seemed like Roger maybe the producers was pushing Sam
and Blake into recruiting and they kept not recruiting. I
feel like they were they I feel like there was
some subtle nudging to make to recruit you, like it
had been visioned on a vision board somewhere. Did you
feel like that was the case. Do you think now
(24:58):
watching it back, that you're picking up on that subtlety
of come on, guys, recruit.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
I think that Blake was sitting on the opposite side
of the table where he was tight with Keith Simone.
As I said, he was a big cuddly bear, and
then you had I think Sam was up there now
obviously with Blake, but he was running the other side
of the field so you could actually see the table
was nearly cut in half. I think Sam did an
(25:23):
amazing job even just to keep Blake's target off me.
That's why, you know, maybe I could have scooted through
a little bit longer and not blindsided Sam at that
and just stuck with the Blake vote. You know, once
we realized that that last second, we're like, oh, Fannabel
goes home, it's going to be very hard for me
to explain this whole story. You know, and you make mistakes,
(25:44):
you know, you look at the game and I could
sit there and look at holes in my game and
said I could have, should have, would have. But in
the hindsight twenty twenty hindsight, it's always great when you're
in there in the motions and you feel like you
know your best friends on the top and block and
I look it also at the game where if I
couldn't win, who do I want to win?
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Well, I want to faithful win and I want Annabel
to win.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Sometimes you got to throw throw your game on the
line to protect that. It's so funny. But to watch
all their faces, oh my god, being pulled when they're
getting asked if they're a trader and stuff like that.
It's I love I love watching it back and I
love seeing how everyone handles the pressure because.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Some people fight in just like he was like, I
can't change your mind.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
It is what it is. There was no real like
listen to me, wait a minute, or like I didn't
even think I actually it didn't show. At one point,
Roger went to walk in the table to do his
little last bit of monologue, and I went, and this
was when me and Guyton were going at it. I went,
wait a.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Minute, Roger, get back out the table.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I haven't finished. We're not like wrapping this up yet,
Like you can like hold the hell on while I
finish what I'm saying. And he was like, oh okay,
so he stepped back out. You know, it was like
it was nearly like because one time. The only reason
why I did that is because I remember playing Survivor
Jonathan when I worked out everyone was voting for me.
(27:11):
This was in the first season. Jonathan goes, Okay, that's
the right time to vote, and I stood up and
I actually stood up to everyone. I went, wait a minute,
use it all vote for me, and then he and
then he proceeded to say all right, it's time to vote.
And if I went, I wish I went. Shut up, Jonathan,
I haven't let me. Let me I've only just come
(27:32):
to the conclusion that I'm about to be blindsided. Now
I need to sit there and react to this and
deal with this situation. But I let him take control
of the situation. And it felt very similar where it
felt like you know, there was we were singing back
and forth, and then Roger went to come in to
(27:52):
take control of the situation, and I was like, this
hasn't happen again. This isn't a repeat. Get the hell
out of my circle, finishing off this chat.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Nothing left on the table as far as I'm I'm
a nothing left on the table kind of guy, exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
And you can see that even when I was sticking
up for Annabel and where and I'm going, wait a
minute and trying to put my words together. You need
to be very careful about being aggressive to the point
where like Ash when it's Sam and told him to
shut up, that it just got the whole table offside.
(28:29):
That no one likes to see a guy talking to
a girl to say shut up, and no one wants
to see it goes it's there's definitely no gender roles
when it comes to how you can talk to someone
and how you can dismiss someone. But the idea is
everyone handles that conflict differently. And it's funny because it's
like you still want to leave everything on the table
(28:51):
bar for your own personal gratification and to the fact
that it helps you sleep better at night when you
do get eliminated.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Watching it now with the rest of us, do you
think they're going to recruit or do you? I mean,
I feel like theycus they're going to need to and
that's going to happen. But if you were in their situation,
if you're one of the traders, would you recruit at
this stage or would you just leave it where it is?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I think right now is there is some tension between
Sam and Blake. Oh yeah, So it's whether they can
talk it out and come to a resolution, which is
the most important thing, or do they go, all right,
we're not recruiting, and then they go in and they
just go like they're going to be hammering tong each
other until they I guess, eat themselves and one wins.
(29:36):
I guess if I had to put some money on it,
I would try to recruit purely, just just to like
know that confusion at least, well at least what happens
is if you recruit, then you get back in the table.
You can try to both go together to vote out
the recruited, and if you vote them out, then you've
(29:56):
done something together as a team again and you can
kind of keep ste rolling.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
Go.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Well, listen, it's a bit of a we're both voted
out the new recruited, and now we're back on the
same page. You know, let's let's move forward and win
this thing.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Do you think Blake and Sam are going to have
long term friends out of this show? Do you think
that by them being traders and being so manipulative in
the game, that it's going to be hard for them
to pick up a friendship?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Do you know a great question? I don't. I haven't looked.
I like Blake, but I don't think i've definitely, I've
never really worked with him in the game to the
point where you know, I, to be honest, I tried
to take the game away from him. So I don't
really know. Great great human, but I don't know how
he looks at betrayal. You know, in this game and
(30:42):
outside the game, I know what Sammy's like, and Sammy's
just all about life and having fun. And he doesn't
really attack people in this game whatever for their demise,
Like he actually, I believe, would like everyone to win,
but he just wants himself to win more. I don't
think that if I voted him out that day, he's
not going to hold a grudge on me. In saying that,
(31:04):
I don't know how his relationship is with other people.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
I think people have got some I think there's some
bad blood there.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah. To be honest, Like as I said, I don't
know exactly if his friendships would last outside with other people,
but I can't talk on that. Like I had more
falling out in Big Brother than I have had in
these three shows. You know, these three shows, I can
actually say that I'm friends with everyone, friends with everyone,
(31:33):
and Survivor friends with everyone, and you know those games,
These games, I feel like have been way more intense
than what Big Brother was.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Being on all of these reality shows. Can you give
me book contestants that is off your Christmas list that
will never be on your Christmas list?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Oh well, I'm not friends with Matt Cooper. I'm not
friends with Ellie whatever last I forget it, last name,
Like we've had a fallen out with her and her partner.
I don't mind Dane, but I don't think we're just
two different people. But you know, like and then look,
it's running it back. It's gone back two years. I
guess I've moved on from all that now. But there's three. Look,
(32:13):
there's three. I don't want to find it big, you know.
Now I'm just picking through people that A just and it'll.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Get on the Daily Mail. Why the fuck am I
having to defend this? But I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah, such a long time ago. But I just I
always I appreciate leaving these shows knowing that there's no
bad blood and I'm definitely always on the front foot
and trying to mend those relationships highs and those. But
the reason why I say it is because I've been
you know, I've lost and had people turn on me,
(32:44):
and how I've handled it is how I wish other
people would handle it if I did it to them.
You know, I think I definitely have you know, as
I said, four shows under the belt, and I can
guarantee there is more than enough people on every single
show that would vouch for the fact that I don't
chuck my toys out the cop. When I don't lose,
(33:04):
I don't win, you know, I don't win. It's just
as me. I handled it. The reaction same as when
I win, you know, and I throw some you know.
Like I spoke to Keith yesterday and because I said, oh,
you did a you know, I'm nearly putting his whole
profession underwater because I'm like saying that, you know, you
did a masterclass of being dumb, you know, and you're
(33:27):
a police officer or whatever. And I was like, oh,
that that probably hit a bit harder. He'd be going
to work and everyone be like, God, you're supposed to
as he said, like he's around the country and everyone's going,
you're supposed to be some undercover police officer. That's been
one of the most decorated, you know, and you know what,
he is a very nice person, and I totally get
(33:48):
why he's he's done so well in life, you know. Unfortunately,
it was just that he'd took out He's taken out
my friend and now ruined my game.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
I will say, though, with reality television people, people who
are not used to it they think they say this
one thing and it's going to get taken out of
context and they turn it into everyone thinks that about me,
But it's actually not like that at all. You can
do something like you could do something terrible on these
shows and it's a blip in society, like not everyone's
watching the show.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Like you know what I've realized in life, like even
tomorrow is it's all news.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Just before we go? Do you know anything about the
latest Survivor? They're still filming it at the moment. Can
you do you know a thing? As the underground community
talking to.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
You, all I know is that they I believe there
are they were filming.
Speaker 5 (34:38):
I would like to think this whole new cast is
a newbie cast. I'd love to see some new blood
bread and I do love to just as like I
feel like I've had the experience twice and it's changed
my life, and I'd love to see twenty four brand
new people's lives be changed.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
And hopefully at some point, you know, down the track,
I get a chair has to meet these new guys
that are about to play and barrack them and support
them to work out. So yeah, I'm always enjoying being
a viewer and enjoying. I like other people's success just
as much as I like my own.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
So just everyone who comes to the podcast gets asked
this question, what is something from behind the scenes of
the Traders, something that we won't see as a viewer,
maybe kind of like a fun story from your time
on the show.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
I was in a room that had a window, and
you know, I was in there for however long, you know,
so for just a couple of weeks or whatever it was. Anyways,
and because I had a window, I would cut up
fruit every morning into nice little small pieces, and I
would put it and I'd open the windows and put
all the fruit and I would sit beside the window,
and eventually the birds would fly down and start nibbling
(35:50):
on the fruit. And over after three or four days,
five days, they started getting a bit more confident with
me being there. And I would watch them just like
sitting there eating this fruit every morning, and I was like, oh,
this is relaxing. Like you know, I'm about to go
into war and burst everyone. But I would have this
like moments of peace, you know, where I'm like, I'm
like relaxing with the birds of Sydney and like minutes
(36:14):
before going in and ripping everyone in the ass.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
I just think it's still a part of who you are,
you know, just putting out a little bit of food
every day, gaining a little bit of trust. And then
I get out of my gun and I shut them off.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, and then next for that, I was eating mate.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
I just want to say thank you so much for
being so generous with your time. I've really like you're
somebody in this universe that I have been thinking about
talking to and waiting for it to happen, you know,
asganically as possible. I think you are such good television.
I think you're a very lovely man, and I'll be
in your audience.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, you're a superstar. And you know, like it's better
doing this long format stuff sometimes, you know, rather than
the shooting and real quick questions because you know you
can't you can. We get to dive a little bit deeper, yeah,
It's in the news today, but it was actually on
TV Reload the podcast past week that light. Welcome TV
Reload listeners. As you may know, my name is Benjamin
Norris and this is your podcast to get all the
inside goss on the popular TV shows you may be
watching from around the world. Undeniably, our TV sets are
a major part of our home entertainment, and yet very
little is known about how our favorite shows get made.
(00:22):
So each episode, I've been finding guests that want to
dive just that little bit deeper into the shows they're
currently making, so that you can hear all their exclusive
stories and gain access to the biggest names in Australian television.
I want to thank you for downloading or subscribing to
this podcast however you've found me. I love hearing your feedback,
so make sure you leave a review or a comment
on your chosen podcast platform. On today's podcast, I have
(00:45):
Australian reality TV Royalty. It's Luke Toki. He's here to
talk about his time on The Traders, which has been
a brilliant second series for Network ten. I am doing
this as a bonus episode as I already had Annabelle
on earlier, but I simply couldn't miss talking to Luke
as I'm a bit of a superfan. Luke first appeared
on Australian Survivor in twenty seventeen and won over the
(01:07):
general public like no other contestant before him. An impressive
fact about his first appearance on television. He came third
on that season of Survivor and there was a GoFundMe
page which was set up by the general public which
raised over a half a million dollars prize money that
he narrowly missed out on the show, something that I
don't really think has ever happened around the world or
(01:28):
ever since. He reappeared on Australian Survivor in twenty nineteen
as a champion champions versus contenders. I think that series
was but his time on that show was also cut
short when it came to Pia Miranda, who was smart
enough to realize that Luke going into that final tribal
council would be way too hot to beat. He went
on to win Big Brother Vip in twenty twenty one,
(01:49):
something that has been completely omitted from his resume on
The Traders this year, And you better believe I'm going
to ask him a little bit about that today. The
Traders this season has totally leveled up and watching these
contestants work as a team to uncover who is a
Trader and who is a faithful he's simply delicious television.
I will ask Luke about his ability to read a room,
(02:10):
and we will talk about the possibility of having a
career as a police investigator. We will unpack the first
few weeks, then the twists and turns that it came with,
where you will find out how he came to the
conclusion that Ash, Sam and Blake were Traders. Luke will
talk about his relationship with Annabelle and Sam, and we
will also get a few names of previous contestants that
(02:31):
are no longer on the Christmas List. Plus, we will
get plenty of exclusives from behind the scenes of The
Traders season two, which continues Sunday night at seven thirty
on Network ten and you can now catch up on Tenplate. Anyway,
let's bring Luke into the podcast. I will try not
to be too much of a fangirl and I hope
you guys enjoyed this very insightful look at The Traders
season two. Hi, Luke, Welcome, to TV reload. You know
(02:54):
what's really funny is that I've nearly had you on
this podcast three times before this, so this is great
to finally chat to you.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah. I don't know why I've missed you so many times,
but it's good to finally Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
You know, shoot it, I have to disclose I was
talking about you. I'd been doing some of these exit
interviews for the Traders, and I've been saying to everyone,
why didn't you get rid of Luke asap?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Nah? But it's you can't trust me. But the thing is,
I'm too much fun to be around, so you can
always get me at a later stage. And you know what,
as well, is I'm actually a good friend in these games.
If you find that every single show, I actually will
protect my friends to the death. As much as I'm
(03:37):
too scary to be around, it's better for you to
have me on my team than to be against me.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
That's the reason why I would have gotten rid of
you straight away. I think the longer you were in
there in any game, I'd be like, we need to
get rid of him straight away because he will develop
better friendships than me, and I will love him and
I'll probably self a victim.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Oh my god, that's so funny. It seems to me
like that way, you know they do say so it's
like socially, you can't get along with everyone, and you're
going to find those little cracks and people that dislike
each other. But yeah, and I do exploit them as
much as possible because if it benefits my game. The
ultimate goal is to win, right, come home without two
hundred and fifty thousand, that big briefcase full of bars,
(04:19):
and as you're right, if you give me enough time
to get my claws into the game, good luck trying
to get me out.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I know it drives me wild on reality shows because
I can always pick the person that's you. Even when
they brought Big Brother back, I was like, why would
they leave Reggie in there at all? Like I said,
I know, she's a sweet, lovely fish and chip shop lady,
but get rid of her asap because the longer she's
in here, the less chance you're ever going to get
to get.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Rid of her. Exactly. It really became with that situation
with reg It was like you can just see that
people just wanted her to win. I think that, you know,
these shows, you do fine. Sometimes these seasons. There's people
in there that completely forget that they are in there
to win for themselves and not for the person that
(05:04):
potentially sometimes is manipulating them even you know, because they
just see what they see on face value. But there
might be one person that's playing a game and the
others just purely relying on their emotions and how they feel.
Where the best players they have no emotion.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I'm ruthless because, like I will work out who I
can't beat, who I like, and who I don't like.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, well it's like chess, right, Some people play the
game like chess, and each other person or character in
the game is a chess piece. That's how I play,
and we move around. Don't get me wrong. You do
create bonds and you do create friendships, but that has
to come second if you are have any choice or
(05:48):
any chance of wanting to actually win two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars. And we've seen last year on The
Traders just how ruthless, how the emotional dammy that you
can put on someone will always come second to winning.
And that's what the TV show wants, So you give them,
give the fans what.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I have a theory that you know, when you're in
a show. Maybe this works more for Survivor than it
does for the Traders. But do you feel like, if
you're a noisy, entertaining player, just go hard with that
because you will somehow be protected. Maybe not my producers,
because that's probably not the right way to look at it.
But you know, do you feel like by being an
outrageous player, you get more screen time and they can't
(06:31):
afford to lose you.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Like, definitely more screen time, But I don't think the
afford to lose you situation. I think it's just sometimes
it works out and sometimes it doesn't. I feel like
if I got voted out my first season Survivor, as
I said, and in the first three or four episodes,
I would have just been the loud mouth, goofy guy
(06:53):
that didn't know how to play the game. But over time,
because you last long and you go further than they
can actually build off your character and your personality and
get a bit of depth to you. But someone like
Angelica Elias, you know, paid and all these players that
you've only just first seen firsthand, we really never got
(07:14):
to witness anything out of them. You never got to
see the character development or the real person underneath, and
how strategic some of those guys will be. You just
got to see that they are erratic when their name
got thrown out and next minute they're gone. For instance
Paid and if he didn't get murdered and he stuck
with me for some longer time, he could have been
(07:34):
the Annabelle. But you just didn't get that showing. And
you know, for instance, with me, everyone already knows from
watching my last show, so there's no character development really
needed with me already come with like the resume, would
you say? You know, but like in saying that, that's
where you've got to have a shot. And that's where
the craziness comes into, because it's sometimes better to have
(07:56):
a crazy three or four episodes and get voted out,
to sit down with the family and watch it every
night for three or four episodes and you're not even
in the show and then you're eliminated. So and that's why,
that's why sometimes my timing can be off, because I
know that with this show, Me and Animal, like throwing
shade to Sam and Blake, it was like, yeah, maybe, say,
(08:19):
for instance, if I didn't protect Animal, I might have
gone a bit further, But you know what if they
recruited me that night because they knew there was no
other way. I get another episode in the game, and
I've also declared who they are, and for instance, I
could have survived the next one, and then I go
on to win, and everyone's going to be like, oh
my god, what an absolute crazy game. So you kind
(08:42):
of you look at the as you said, like you're
going to go all in sometimes and I hope for
the best and I think I will always And this
is in real life and external in the games and stuff,
is always have your buddies back, even if it costs
you your game, because because everyone can relate to that.
You know, it's like you and your brother, or you
(09:04):
and your sister, or some shit's happening to you and
you want someone.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
To stick up for you, whether it be at school,
whether it's whether it's on these shows, whether it's at work.
There's bullies, there's there's people that will always gang up
sometimes on the weakest, you know, and when that time comes,
you wish you had that one friend that would go
into war even they know they're going to get beaten
up or they're going to get destroyed.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
It's like it's just a good human character. That what
is it? Good winds over evil? You know, yeah, And
it's something that I've always sucked by and I will
always you know, good winds over evil eventually and it
always does. And I watched Survivor right and people write
down their own brother's names on blood versut water, or
(09:50):
their own mother's names. And I look at that and
I'm like, I could never do, you know, how like
how awkward that would be for the rest of our relationship.
Like We've just got like seventy years to lit and
I'm going to sit there and listen to my brother
or mother going, you voted me out, you asshole.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
The minute that you turn on that person, audiences will
never give you the money. You may stay an extra episode,
never win.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
So it's because we see him in real life breed
putting yourself over obviously everyone is. It's not a trait
that we all love, you know, because we see it
throughout life in every aspect. It's always money and greed
and power as a human trait as well, where you
don't put yourself first, you put your friend first, you
(10:40):
put your partner first, you put your kids first, and
sometimes it works out and that favor gets repaid later
on in life, you know, helping that old lady across
the road, as I say, and then you go to
a job interview and that old lady is your boss. Coma.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
You know, I think your elimination was a waste of
your paycheck. Though, to be eliminated off Hamra He is
the opposite of the perfect storm. It is the light
shower we didn't deserve.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Do you know what's even worse. I got dressed up
hell nice that morning and I was waiting to go
down to breakfast, and I was like, oh, well, it
must be the last person in so I thought there
was still that small chance they could have recruited me,
And it wasn't until it got closer to the midday
that's when I realized no longer.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
One of the things I was curious about is why
did they omit you being the winner of Big Brother?
Because that seemed like a really big part of your
career and also a huge part of your resume. Did
they talk to you about why that would not be
mentioned Big Brother?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I don't know if wether it just didn't view well
or the ratings or many people have seen it, but
that question never came up, So I never ever brought
up that I had one big brother. So the fact is,
as far as everyone knew, I was just the shit
Survivor player that's lost twice.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Did you do the research and watch the Traders version
that had just happened season I think it was either
the English one or the American one where they had
two winners from Big Brother come back, And did you
see that moment where one of the winners was like, Oh,
they're lucky to have me here, they get to meet me,
Like they had this really out of like it was
just bonkers to see them talk about themselves like that.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I do think my Big Brother background will help me
in here.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I can manipulate everyone.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
This is like my chance.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
To use their fandom of me to my advantage. So
I'm kind of an icon. What did you think of
that moment?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Look, I think that people can get caught up in
the storm of TV being known around the country, and
even people say, oh, you meet Caitlin, Jenny, You've met
like you know all these people, And I'm like, yeah,
they're like they're actually really nice and amazing people.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
But do you know who's more amazing? My friends in
my life?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
That I've known for the last fifteen years because they
have seen me come and go and be around do everything,
and we sit down and we laugh and have the
best time ever.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
And do you know what, whether they're known or not known,
it does not matter.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Like that's where you don't let yourself get swept up
in these parties and events and people who know people.
You treat people how you would like to be treated.
And as much as Caitlyn Jenner's great, do you know what,
I don't want to hang out with a seventy year
old woman.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
I take my grandma out for lunch if I want
to hang out with.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
A seven year old woman, you know, because it's not
it doesn't interest me, I guess.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I mean, you would have been asked to do a
lot of these shows. I mean, how many shows have
you been asked to do? Can you reveal anything else?
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Not?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Really? I think The Traders was a perfect little one
for me to come back to after The Big Brother.
I was like kind of wanted to wrap it up,
felt like, you know, I've done what I wanted to
do and whatever, because I got the w but like
you know, like someone that just can't give up their
career like that footy player making that second run to
get my fingers and or get my toes wet in
(14:02):
Traders has been such good.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
And to be back with ten and to just like
you know, just meet.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Everyone, and also to get it right. I think I
had a good run, like I yeah, like it could
always be worse than it can always be better, you know,
just the factors this game. I was actually able to
talk the truth a bit, you know, I was able
to sit there and say, like, it wasn't about me
creating lies and stirring the pot and creating massive amount
of drama. It was more me putting my gut to work,
(14:32):
my intuition, my my social strategy, my skills, and you know,
like I guess finding the murderer, finding the bad person.
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the Australian Federal
Police had reached out to me and wanted me to
be an undercover cop, or.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I'm surprised that hasn't happened. Your skill set is so ridiculous.
You're so good at reading people. I mean, you probably
can't even admit to me right now that Asio has
been in contact with you.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah yeah, yeah, nah. Well that's what I'm saying. It's
like I definitely probably should start my own firm or something,
because the proof is in the pudding.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I'm now four seasons in and I've been able to
and I've got a pretty good record of being able
to work things out and understand how people are going
to react to certain things. And like I'm not I'm
not perfect. I get things wrong, but in an overall
scheme of things, the Traders is just an example of
how how well I can put it together, you know,
(15:31):
and how well I can judge and read a situation.
Because even for us to work it out that we
think a trader has turned on a trader, that's a
big It's like, you know, it's like it's like three D.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Chess, right, no one. And that's why I said that
if animal went, can you imagine me trying to explain
that to everyone, Everyone be like loops off his head
because it is.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
It's so everyone likes it to be basic, very easy
to understand and to sit there and explain to someone. Listen,
I think a trader turned on a trader, and then
they obviously have a recruited like to make themselves look
like a faithful and I'm doing that by myself. People
are like, man, this luke's been in this game for
(16:17):
too long. He's got spiders on his brain.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
When you arrived and you realized you're not a trader,
you're a faithful and you're their day one, what's the
order of people you assumed were traders?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Okay, so naturally you're in a car with Anabel, Me, Gloria,
and Sam. And when me and Sam actually started chatting
in the car, you could just tell where the two
boys we're going to kick it off right. It's like
if we're in a class of school, if we're playing
sport together, they'd be like, yeah, we get along very well.
We're very similar in a way, and we're just going
(16:50):
to have each other's backs. When the actual the nomination
for the traders were picked, it wasn't until so we
all got picked. It was hard looking around everyone. But
once we got out of that room, everyone formed groups
and we're talking. And I noticed that in that small
window of knowing Sam, and then the window of being
touched on the shoulder, and then now he's in group situations,
(17:13):
you could just see him in these small groups and
he's beside me three or four people, and his demeanor
changed hugely. It was like he was thinking about how
he's going to go about being playing this trader position,
because while everyone's.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Talking, he's like nodding and like kind of not really
being that.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Funny or engaging in these small convos. And in my head,
I was like, that's a massive change in personality. And
then obviously after a day he went back to normal.
He went back to d you know, insane and being
quite direct. And I've played with a lot of players
like that that like to tell you what to do.
(17:56):
It's nearly like they have a ulterior motive. They have
a motive in just saying But it's like, say, for instance,
you live under the rule of your parents, and your
parents tell you to clean your room or tell you
to do something, you kind of have to because you
live under your parents' rule. But as you get older
(18:16):
and if you are living in a house with a
friend and he's kind of always you know, the shop
caller in the house, you can even roll it up
with two ways. You can always agree with him, or
you can listen to them and work out what their
motives are and work out how they're behaving and how
they can why are they telling you to do this
(18:38):
and why are they asserting dominance? You can make them
know that you are unhappy and you disagree, and you
can have arguments about it whatever, right in front of
or you can play the game behind the scenes behind
them until you're knife because you know that, for instance,
you don't agree what they're doing and you don't agree
what they're saying.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
But I'll go along for now and play dumb.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
And be your little sidekick. But in the times right,
I'll get you. And that's kind of how we thought
we'd play, and it had nothing to do with Sam's personality.
I like Sam. I've got all the time in the
world for Sam. But unfortunately I worked out you're a trader.
You're my best friend is a trader in this game,
and unfortunately I was there to get traders, and I
(19:22):
had to put that friendship aside and try to get him.
Probably could have waited later, he might have kept me
in the game. But if he had not kept me
in the game, then I would have just been another
dummy on that show.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
You're saying to me that you picked Sam straight away?
Did you pick Ash? Did you pick Blake?
Speaker 4 (19:40):
So I kind of tried to play the middle ground.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
So at that time, it was like I felt like
I was really close with Addabelle, I was really close
with Sam, Me and Gloria you didn't see were also
she was in the mix of that car kind of thing.
So we all had this like I guess, like a
not a pack, but a bit of like a situation
where we kind of just had each other's because we
had that time to meet each other before meeting all
(20:03):
the rest.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
So we tried to use that as our advantage.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
But at the same time, you could see clicks forming,
So it's a bit like high school, you know, you
see Roha, Hannah and Ash. They were becoming very tight.
And I'm going to look at that very clearly and go, well,
that's a three. If I need to get votes, I
want to either pivot with them or pivot with Sam
and my group. But at the same time, you never
(20:27):
ever close off your enemies. So at that time they
would technically have been my enemy and in that game.
But in saying that, what if Ash got Sam out
and the votes did go to Sam, well, I wanted
to pivot and be with that group with Ash, and
knowing that.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
Ash is now a trader and Ash will protect me.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
So Ash you thought was a trader straight away? Is
that what you're saying?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
No, no, no, I thought Ash was a trader roughly
when she started real pressing me about who's been throwing
my name around there at that break when she we
did a real clear handshake and then I said, well,
Sam is and I could just see the reaction was
not a reaction where it made me. I was very
(21:11):
aware that Ash was a big personality and a very
strong personality, and she's not easy to be pushed around.
And then when I realized that Sam wanted to ash
out and he was quite forceful about it, it's like, where's
this coming from? So it's easy to put two and
two together where you're like, wait a minute, he's nearly
overplaying his hand right now because he wants ash out.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
And the only the only thing that made me think.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Is like these guys are up at Trader's Tower not
getting along, and because they're not that close outside of
anywhere else, So where's this like I can't deal with
Ash situation because everywhere else you don't have to deal
with her. So why, as you you know, why is
you like I can't deal with Ash. It's like, because
you have to deal with Ash, and the only reason
(21:57):
you have to deal with us because she must be
up in the tower. And that just set off alarm
bell as we were just bang bang, And it's easy
when I go to Annabel and I go, hey, this
is what I think, and she goes, boom, that's what
I'm thinking. And so I could sit there and say
to Hannah, I'll be like, you know Sam this, and
then next minute she would just look off and this
is oh and You're like yeah nah, And then you
(22:20):
can you can pull back on that statement and go yeah, no.
I was just kind of floating it because you look
at the people's reactions and go, Okay, they didn't react
how Annabel reacted.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Annabel went, that's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
You said. Look at Ian. I said to Ian, I go,
who else could you vote other than Limb? And he goes,
well you, And that made me go, well god, I'm
like he's not even picking up that there's there's a
tiny chance that I'm having this conversation to save him.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
As soon as he said me, I was like, you
would get.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Eaten alive in Survivor. I'm so used to playing with
high calibus social players that keep their cards close and
don't overplay their hand, and people lying to my face
and I'm lying to them. But we can still hold
a good hours long conversation. The whole hour would be fake,
a fake conversation for a whole hour. I can still
(23:15):
hold one, and a good survivor player can as well.
There was something happened in this show where it didn't
make the cut, but Hayden and Elias were arguing quite
argue about, you know, throwing each other's names out or
whatever it was. And I said to Elias, I said, look, listen,
because I trusted that both of them were faithful. They
just wear their heart and their sleeves. They're those kind
(23:36):
of people, you know. And I said, look, Alias, I
go do this for me. Pretend that because I told
them to make up, I said, make up like they
finally made up.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
I said, LIUs, please tell.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Everyone that you still are suss On Hayden and Peyden.
You please tell everyone you'll still sus on a Lis,
but be friends and make up and vote together. And
the last goes, why the hell would I do that?
I'm like, oh my god. It's layered gameplay it means
that the traders would think that us will never vote
(24:12):
together and that youth can get banished in those banishment
rooms because use it at each other. But he couldn't
understand the layered level of it so instantly. Again, that
makes me go, all right, he's going to be hard
to upskill to the point where he can hide his emotions.
But yeah, I'm just a gamer, to make it simple,
(24:33):
I'm a bloody gamer in there, and I want to win.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
It seemed like Roger maybe the producers was pushing Sam
and Blake into recruiting and they kept not recruiting. I
feel like they were they I feel like there was
some subtle nudging to make to recruit you, like it
had been visioned on a vision board somewhere. Did you
feel like that was the case. Do you think now
(24:58):
watching it back, that you're picking up on that subtlety
of come on, guys, recruit.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
I think that Blake was sitting on the opposite side
of the table where he was tight with Keith Simone.
As I said, he was a big cuddly bear, and
then you had I think Sam was up there now
obviously with Blake, but he was running the other side
of the field so you could actually see the table
was nearly cut in half. I think Sam did an
(25:23):
amazing job even just to keep Blake's target off me.
That's why, you know, maybe I could have scooted through
a little bit longer and not blindsided Sam at that
and just stuck with the Blake vote. You know, once
we realized that that last second, we're like, oh, Fannabel
goes home, it's going to be very hard for me
to explain this whole story. You know, and you make mistakes,
(25:44):
you know, you look at the game and I could
sit there and look at holes in my game and
said I could have, should have, would have. But in
the hindsight twenty twenty hindsight, it's always great when you're
in there in the motions and you feel like you
know your best friends on the top and block and
I look it also at the game where if I
couldn't win, who do I want to win?
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Well, I want to faithful win and I want Annabel
to win.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Sometimes you got to throw throw your game on the
line to protect that. It's so funny. But to watch
all their faces, oh my god, being pulled when they're
getting asked if they're a trader and stuff like that.
It's I love I love watching it back and I
love seeing how everyone handles the pressure because.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Some people fight in just like he was like, I
can't change your mind.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
It is what it is. There was no real like
listen to me, wait a minute, or like I didn't
even think I actually it didn't show. At one point,
Roger went to walk in the table to do his
little last bit of monologue, and I went, and this
was when me and Guyton were going at it. I went,
wait a.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Minute, Roger, get back out the table.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I haven't finished. We're not like wrapping this up yet,
Like you can like hold the hell on while I
finish what I'm saying. And he was like, oh okay,
so he stepped back out. You know, it was like
it was nearly like because one time. The only reason
why I did that is because I remember playing Survivor
Jonathan when I worked out everyone was voting for me.
(27:11):
This was in the first season. Jonathan goes, Okay, that's
the right time to vote, and I stood up and
I actually stood up to everyone. I went, wait a minute,
use it all vote for me, and then he and
then he proceeded to say all right, it's time to vote.
And if I went, I wish I went. Shut up, Jonathan,
I haven't let me. Let me I've only just come
(27:32):
to the conclusion that I'm about to be blindsided. Now
I need to sit there and react to this and
deal with this situation. But I let him take control
of the situation. And it felt very similar where it
felt like you know, there was we were singing back
and forth, and then Roger went to come in to
(27:52):
take control of the situation, and I was like, this
hasn't happen again. This isn't a repeat. Get the hell
out of my circle, finishing off this chat.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Nothing left on the table as far as I'm I'm
a nothing left on the table kind of guy, exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
And you can see that even when I was sticking
up for Annabel and where and I'm going, wait a
minute and trying to put my words together. You need
to be very careful about being aggressive to the point
where like Ash when it's Sam and told him to
shut up, that it just got the whole table offside.
(28:29):
That no one likes to see a guy talking to
a girl to say shut up, and no one wants
to see it goes it's there's definitely no gender roles
when it comes to how you can talk to someone
and how you can dismiss someone. But the idea is
everyone handles that conflict differently. And it's funny because it's
like you still want to leave everything on the table
(28:51):
bar for your own personal gratification and to the fact
that it helps you sleep better at night when you
do get eliminated.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Watching it now with the rest of us, do you
think they're going to recruit or do you? I mean,
I feel like theycus they're going to need to and
that's going to happen. But if you were in their situation,
if you're one of the traders, would you recruit at
this stage or would you just leave it where it is?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I think right now is there is some tension between
Sam and Blake. Oh yeah, So it's whether they can
talk it out and come to a resolution, which is
the most important thing, or do they go, all right,
we're not recruiting, and then they go in and they
just go like they're going to be hammering tong each
other until they I guess, eat themselves and one wins.
(29:36):
I guess if I had to put some money on it,
I would try to recruit purely, just just to like
know that confusion at least, well at least what happens
is if you recruit, then you get back in the table.
You can try to both go together to vote out
the recruited, and if you vote them out, then you've
(29:56):
done something together as a team again and you can
kind of keep ste rolling.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
Go.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Well, listen, it's a bit of a we're both voted
out the new recruited, and now we're back on the
same page. You know, let's let's move forward and win
this thing.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Do you think Blake and Sam are going to have
long term friends out of this show? Do you think
that by them being traders and being so manipulative in
the game, that it's going to be hard for them
to pick up a friendship?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Do you know a great question? I don't. I haven't looked.
I like Blake, but I don't think i've definitely, I've
never really worked with him in the game to the
point where you know, I, to be honest, I tried
to take the game away from him. So I don't
really know. Great great human, but I don't know how
he looks at betrayal. You know, in this game and
(30:42):
outside the game, I know what Sammy's like, and Sammy's
just all about life and having fun. And he doesn't
really attack people in this game whatever for their demise,
Like he actually, I believe, would like everyone to win,
but he just wants himself to win more. I don't
think that if I voted him out that day, he's
not going to hold a grudge on me. In saying that,
(31:04):
I don't know how his relationship is with other people.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
I think people have got some I think there's some
bad blood there.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah. To be honest, Like as I said, I don't
know exactly if his friendships would last outside with other people,
but I can't talk on that. Like I had more
falling out in Big Brother than I have had in
these three shows. You know, these three shows, I can
actually say that I'm friends with everyone, friends with everyone,
(31:33):
and Survivor friends with everyone, and you know those games,
These games, I feel like have been way more intense
than what Big Brother was.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Being on all of these reality shows. Can you give
me book contestants that is off your Christmas list that
will never be on your Christmas list?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Oh well, I'm not friends with Matt Cooper. I'm not
friends with Ellie whatever last I forget it, last name,
Like we've had a fallen out with her and her partner.
I don't mind Dane, but I don't think we're just
two different people. But you know, like and then look,
it's running it back. It's gone back two years. I
guess I've moved on from all that now. But there's three. Look,
(32:13):
there's three. I don't want to find it big, you know.
Now I'm just picking through people that A just and it'll.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Get on the Daily Mail. Why the fuck am I
having to defend this? But I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah, such a long time ago. But I just I
always I appreciate leaving these shows knowing that there's no
bad blood and I'm definitely always on the front foot
and trying to mend those relationships highs and those. But
the reason why I say it is because I've been
you know, I've lost and had people turn on me,
(32:44):
and how I've handled it is how I wish other
people would handle it if I did it to them.
You know, I think I definitely have you know, as
I said, four shows under the belt, and I can
guarantee there is more than enough people on every single
show that would vouch for the fact that I don't
chuck my toys out the cop. When I don't lose,
(33:04):
I don't win, you know, I don't win. It's just
as me. I handled it. The reaction same as when
I win, you know, and I throw some you know.
Like I spoke to Keith yesterday and because I said, oh,
you did a you know, I'm nearly putting his whole
profession underwater because I'm like saying that, you know, you
did a masterclass of being dumb, you know, and you're
(33:27):
a police officer or whatever. And I was like, oh,
that that probably hit a bit harder. He'd be going
to work and everyone be like, God, you're supposed to
as he said, like he's around the country and everyone's going,
you're supposed to be some undercover police officer. That's been
one of the most decorated, you know, and you know what,
he is a very nice person, and I totally get
(33:48):
why he's he's done so well in life, you know. Unfortunately,
it was just that he'd took out He's taken out
my friend and now ruined my game.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
I will say, though, with reality television people, people who
are not used to it they think they say this
one thing and it's going to get taken out of
context and they turn it into everyone thinks that about me,
But it's actually not like that at all. You can
do something like you could do something terrible on these
shows and it's a blip in society, like not everyone's
watching the show.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Like you know what I've realized in life, like even
tomorrow is it's all news.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Just before we go? Do you know anything about the
latest Survivor? They're still filming it at the moment. Can
you do you know a thing? As the underground community
talking to.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
You, all I know is that they I believe there
are they were filming.
Speaker 5 (34:38):
I would like to think this whole new cast is
a newbie cast. I'd love to see some new blood
bread and I do love to just as like I
feel like I've had the experience twice and it's changed
my life, and I'd love to see twenty four brand
new people's lives be changed.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
And hopefully at some point, you know, down the track,
I get a chair has to meet these new guys
that are about to play and barrack them and support
them to work out. So yeah, I'm always enjoying being
a viewer and enjoying. I like other people's success just
as much as I like my own.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
So just everyone who comes to the podcast gets asked
this question, what is something from behind the scenes of
the Traders, something that we won't see as a viewer,
maybe kind of like a fun story from your time
on the show.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
I was in a room that had a window, and
you know, I was in there for however long, you know,
so for just a couple of weeks or whatever it was. Anyways,
and because I had a window, I would cut up
fruit every morning into nice little small pieces, and I
would put it and I'd open the windows and put
all the fruit and I would sit beside the window,
and eventually the birds would fly down and start nibbling
(35:50):
on the fruit. And over after three or four days,
five days, they started getting a bit more confident with
me being there. And I would watch them just like
sitting there eating this fruit every morning, and I was like, oh,
this is relaxing. Like you know, I'm about to go
into war and burst everyone. But I would have this
like moments of peace, you know, where I'm like, I'm
like relaxing with the birds of Sydney and like minutes
(36:14):
before going in and ripping everyone in the ass.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
I just think it's still a part of who you are,
you know, just putting out a little bit of food
every day, gaining a little bit of trust. And then
I get out of my gun and I shut them off.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, and then next for that, I was eating mate.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
I just want to say thank you so much for
being so generous with your time. I've really like you're
somebody in this universe that I have been thinking about
talking to and waiting for it to happen, you know,
asganically as possible. I think you are such good television.
I think you're a very lovely man, and I'll be
in your audience.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, you're a superstar. And you know, like it's better
doing this long format stuff sometimes, you know, rather than
the shooting and real quick questions because you know you
can't you can. We get to dive a little bit deeper, yeah,
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