February 4, 2025 • 28 mins
Hi Guys, welcome back to TV Reload. Thank you for clicking or downloading on today’s episode with Rachel Griffiths one Australia’s finest actors who is about to feature in the scripted drama Madam not only as the protagonist of the series but as a producer as well.
Rachel Griffths is one of my all time favourite actors and I can tell you that I use to love her so much that I would mimic the way she spoke and would watch her interviews over and over again. So you can imagine how much fun I had today chatting with her about her new series Madam.
The story follows the American character Mackenzie (otherwise known as Mack) who lives a regular life in small-town New Zealand with her husband Rob and their two sons.
When Mack discovers that Rob has been seeing a sex worker, it comes as a confronting surprise and rather than feeling angry, Mack feels unexpectedly inspired. So with a wish and prayer she sets up a her own ethical brothel. It is like nothing you have ever seen on TV.
- Rachel will unpack the reasons why she chose this project and the interesting learning that came from telling a story about sex work.
- We chat about her relationship with the other actors including Danielle Mc Cormack. Who you may know as Bee Smith from Wentworth.
- I find out about Rachel’s experiences on set and how getting COVID nearly shut down production.
- You will get everything from some amazing insights into her character Ronda from Murrial’s Wedding, what she thinks about Six Feat Under’s finale all these years later and what Rachel thinks about the potential of Series 2 of Madam.
There is so much to talk about with so many inside revelations. So sit back and relax as we unpack the wonderful world of MaDAM. Which lunches Feb 4, 9.00pm on Channel 9 and 9Now
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's in the news today, but it was actually on
TV Reload the podcast last week Their Life. Welcome back
to TV Reload. I want to thank you for clicking
and downloading on today's episode with Rachel Griffiths. I know
one of Australia's finest actors who is about to feature
in the scripted drama series Madam on Channel nine as
the protagonist but also as the producer. Rachel Griffiths, I'm
(00:22):
going to say, is one of my all time favorite actors,
not only in Australia but all around the world. And
I can tell you that I have loved her so
much that back in the day I used to mimic
the way that she spoke and would watch interviews of
her on YouTube over and over again. So you can
imagine how much fun I had today chatting with her
about this new series Madam. The story of Madam follows
(00:44):
an American character, Mackenzie otherwise known as Mack, who lives
a regular life in a small town of New Zealand
with her husband, Rob and their two sons. When mack
discovers that Rob has been seeing a sex worker, it
comes as a confronting surprise, and rather than feel angry,
which is quite surprising. Mack feels unexpectedly inspired, so with
(01:05):
a wish and a prayer, she sets up her own
ethical brothel. I know, it's kind of wild. It's like
nothing that you've seen on TV before. Rachel Griffiths will
unpack the reasons why she chose this project and the
interesting learnings that came from telling a story about sex work.
We will chat about her relationship with the other actors,
including Danniel McCormack, who you will know as b Smith
(01:27):
from Wentworth. I find out about Rachel's experience on set
and how getting COVID nearly shut down production. You will
get everything from some amazing insights into the character Ronda
from Muriel's wedding, what she thinks about six feet under
his finale all of these years later, and what Rachel
thinks about the potential of a series two of Madam.
(01:48):
There's actually a lot to unpack, and I'm telling you
we will get some fabulous inside revelations. So guys, sit
back and relax as we unpack the wonderful world of Madam,
which launches February fourth at nine pm on Channel nine
and nine. Now Hi, then Hi, Rachel, I was just
talking to our friend at Channel nine about my mild
(02:10):
obsession with you. So if I sound like I need
a Valium halfway through this chat because I'm a little
bit excited, I'll do it. Sorry the borders, Yeah, that's okay,
this is a podcast. We're all coming with you.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Oh no, I'm glad I didn't go in and put
you on mute and a p.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Well, it kind of might have been iconic. I end
up in the Daily Mail.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Had a pea. All right, I'm just sitting down there.
I go really going around the block.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
This is kind of what I was infecting, though, do
you know what I mean? Like, this is the real
Rachel Griffith. I'm here to do the LORRYHD. I've just
been diagnosed with it. So look, I can tell you
all about ADHD. It's like the price.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
No, I do have ADHD and I always have had.
And hey, welcome to the neuros fivety club. Perpetual chaots.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
But don't you think that creatives It sort of works
so well. Like I think about all the work that
you have been able to achieve creatively, and I wonder
whether or not you would have been able to do
that if you didn't have the ADHD. It's kind of
who you should think, you know, when you win your
Oscar ADHD.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Definitely, I did find a place where you don't really
have to multitask. You go full focus and immersion and
then go down any rabbit hole like I'm sudden an
expert in skin rejuvenation for burn victims and you go
down that rabbit hole and it's like suddenly, I'll be
(03:37):
an expert in being a madam. So it is very
very suitable for those ADHD rabbit holes that find themselves,
you know, getting locked down those rabbit holes, and you
can say I'm working done, and I'm not going I'm
actually working.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I'm hyper focusing. You know. It's funny. I was on
Chapel Street once and you were You had someone pitching
a TV show on the table next to me, like
while I was having my lunch and I shouldn't have
been listening, but it was very fascinating because they were
approaching you about doing a story doing Telly Television back
in Australigy. I think you'd been wrapping Brothers and Sisters
around that time, and it was fascinating because I heard
you say to the man you're not quite ready to
(04:15):
go yet, but you've got a great idea. And I
remember thinking you were so honest with this person about
what he was approaching you for. And I realized today
talking to you signing up for something like Madam, what
was it about this project that made you go, Oh,
that's what I wanted. I want to hope a focus
on that interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So yeah, no, I definitely met where I was at
in my life on kind of you know, for a
lot of reasons, I've been offered a lot of Madams
in my life, and the shows are usually creepy or pervy,
or about the dark exploitation of women's bodies while smultaneously
(04:53):
being pervy and creepy, if you know what I'm saying,
Like it's even worse because you're making it dark and
pretty and dirty, but you're also kind getting off on it.
And one of my favorite roles I've played was a
sex worker in A Honey's QURESHI adaptation of one of
his novellas, I'm called my Son a Fanatic, and it
was just such a beautiful human, not pervy, really really
(05:15):
about something trying of movie and every single matter m
I've been offered since it's just been pervy's and always
men showrunners and really circumspect, you know, And I guess
I grew up in a time when it was kind
of okay to have a twelve year old Jodie Foster
or a twelve year old Bookshield play child fastagues in
(05:38):
movies that were actually just fucking pervy as far and
would never be made now with particularly an underage actor
in a role. And even then, why would you so
when a movie and that, you know, when this came
along and I heard the background of a true story
like you know, kind of middle aged woman living in
rural New Zealand with a with the pound difical disabilities
(06:02):
buye with this new side hospital after realizing that sex
wort's the criminalize that she can open a brothl and
do it better than the skanky brothels that she's on
to visit. It just kind of really run through on
this kind of seminomics, effent i dot. This show actually
gets into the really smart part and dried seminomic of
(06:24):
when a woman, particularly a mother or any woman who's
both independent and trying to sustain herself and or family,
makes that decision like op at a job, how long,
you know, how long does it take to get there?
How long do I have to work for? And how
much money does it pay. She's you know, in a
(06:45):
place where it's an hour and a half to get
to a nursing home, where she's on minimum wage and
she can never do drop off and pick up or
do use design a life for this? And that's you know,
every job I get is how long, how far? How much?
How long does it go for, how far from home
is it because you just have to leave home to
you know, to provide, and how much money? And that's
(07:08):
equation and then it's kind of how good is it?
So I really kind of loved the grounded nature of
that decision making process and found it really universal to
all women, especially with you know, cozy lives and everyone's
on a hustle and how much it's for childcare, and
it just kind of gave me a lot more respects
(07:28):
for a decision making process. It's actually a really practical,
kind of no brainer for a lot of women to
do this. They've been mas sisters or they've been working
in agekre and they're like, if I'm in agekre, I'm
wiping answers. I'm wiping shit, I'm wiping kiss, I'm cleaning
old people and dealing with crazy clients and this is
how much money I make or I'm kind of doing
(07:49):
and I'm being caring and you know, making them feel
good and they go, well, I could just see that
six hours a week and actually have a much less
stressful life and just just rewarding. Like many of the
that I spoke to, you know, one girl said, we
don't solve sex, we treat loneliness. And I thought that
was so interesting.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
It's kind of poetic here. I mean, I think that
this show really works when it's because of the dynamics
amongst these women. And they are unusual women, they're different
in character. So when you see them come together to
solve something maybe as ridiculous as putting a boombox up your.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Bum bar, up the up the.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Bar, that's when the story really sings, because watching these
women come together and solve problems together is really powerful
and really funny and interesting and not slutty whatever that
word is, you know, not schmalming.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
No, we've really taken this lot out of the sex worker.
I mean, there's women are working hard, providing a really
satisfying service. And I think we do get a good
cross section of the type of people that the women
I spoke to. You know, there's one girl I spoke
to them like her top three clients are widow is
in their late sixties seventies, and they just actually really
(09:04):
really missed being kind of touched and hold and you know,
and looked at and told they're awesome and hot. And
I think when you go into the date your dating
market in the seventies, you know, it's really hard and
hard to get to that point where you just kind
of want your hair strokes or the three hairs left
on your head stroke and just have a young girl say,
(09:27):
how are you done? It's so good to see you,
and it just makes them feel good. And I spoke
to women, you know, some of their clients had physical disabilities,
some were you know, men in much larger bodies that also,
you know, found this threshold of finding intimacy, you know,
the normal way a bit more challenging, and just found
(09:49):
the kind of generosity of going to the sex worker
to see you know, just a lot a lot less
other mind field than negotiating that in other ways. So
that was like a really really interesting.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I loved my Life as Murder and I thought that
Shashana had done such an amazing job with that story.
Was working alongside the creative team behind that sort of
giving you the confidence to dive into this world, that
you could dive into this world in a way that
may be sort of similar to My life as Murder.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Parry McNaughty and Shoshana definitely, you know, they really wanted
this to be seen by women in the industry and
not go oh my god, like how many times And
they all said the same thing. Whenever we see it
represented as a joke. You know, it's disrespectful. It's not
like it is. They just don't get it. And I think,
(10:42):
having you know, a queer and a female showrunner too,
it's that thing that you know when when we talk
about sex, we're always laughing, like it's really funny. And
when we have sex, you know that when we see
two dogs at the past, you know, we're like, oh
my god, you know you're well, you're right, Well, I
think two dogs were at the puck ands or two
humans fucking in the park that did the same thing,
(11:04):
like oh god, put it away, Oh my god, and
the dogs start fucking laughing at the two people, you know,
dogging it in the park. They're probably like, oh please,
please come on, oh my god, and be laughing. But
so often when we see sex portrade, I think because
we're trying to get the audience's rocks off a little bit.
(11:24):
So there's that erotic and it's always hot, traditionally hot people,
not with a kind of inclusive body positive you know,
lens over it all. So I think that they were
both really rarely committed to the representation stuff. And then
I think what I brought was just the menopause of it.
I'm like, this chick is in perimenopause. She's fucking had
(11:45):
a gut pull. She's up to here, she's third yum
a testop thrown and it does two things. That makes
her cranky, gives her a rage and gives her the
energy to maybe have one more push of changing her
life to make it look like what she dream to
de beate. And she's a really educated woman. If you
have told that girl had just graduated from Berkeley, that
(12:06):
she'd be stuck in New Zealand with her husband, the
not necessarily pulling its ways, and she's got the mental
load and she's tired of it, and she's not a
famous author, probably doesn't even have a publisher, and life
just has not been full of the promise that this bright, young,
probably ADHD girl you know, was promised or told she
(12:28):
could have because she was smart and she's beautiful and
adventurous and spirited, but life had kind of other plans
to her. And you know, I don't know a family
with a child with special needs who isn't driving a
twenty five year old car and really really struggling to
have enough leftover after the you know, all the things
(12:49):
that are required to kind of have the joint sparkling
life joined sparkle as the last family holidays, because so
that can be very difficult. And it's just she's lost
in drudgery. So she's got this idea of this business
that might you know, be good for her family and
give her something make her days a bit more unpredictable
(13:12):
and fun and surprising, and you know, also give her
a workplace of really quirky, passionate women instead of being
alone and half bound.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
You really want her to succeed, mac like as in
you just she's very relatable in lots of ways. I mean,
my favorite scene of the whole thing was when one
of the clients turns up and none of the other
women are there, and he says, come on, can you
just give me a hand job? And she goes no,
And you kind of did that Rachel Griffith thing where
you did that look into the sky as if to think,
why the fuck did that man just ask me that
(13:43):
and just kept walking.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Five second season, she'd probably go, all right, come on,
but I'm on Madam, so it's double I think by then,
I think those boundaries might break down a little bit.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Well, I'm up to episode five and I'm Daniel McCormack,
who is just so brilliant. I was obsessed with her.
Isn't she great in this as well? Like there's some
you know, she's very different from be that we saw
and went worth texis.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Fuck. Her body is like rock and so the thing
you want and I know this because I'm normally in
the supporting actor role, I know what you need to
bring to your lead actor is really you need an
a game person to grow bombs in the path to
your happiness, and the bomb have to land and they've
(14:31):
got to hurt, and you know that's kind of what
I think for deb on total control, and the better
the actor is in that supporting role, the more kind
of grateful the lead us, because thank you giving me
some like real shit to deal with. And Mac is
not really an alpha girl. She's a kind of girl
(14:52):
with some ideas and she's probably really out of a
debt even running a business. So when an actual apex
predator alpha girl comes in, like terrified. Fuck. These are
the girls that I didn't manage at school. These are
the kind of women in the mothers club that fucking
judge me, that terrify me, that I've never said the
right thing, to have never got the upper hand on.
(15:13):
And then I'm dealing with Daniel McCormack just growing shit
in my bed.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I just think she's so fantastic and the contrast of
your two characters is just delicious. I'm up to episode five,
so I can't wait to see I feel like she's
coming into the series a little bit more so I'm
looking for to that. I want anyone listening to this
podcast right now to really go into this show with
an open mind, because it is something we haven't really
seen before, and it is really delicious, and I think
(15:41):
you've got to sit down with your partners and watch it,
because it makes you want to have a conversation about
sex in a different way, and it makes you want
to talk about I don't know your body in a
different way. Something quite amazing about what this show does
to the viewer.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
I think that's right. Look, I think we have folks
and women will go coosely bred ignite it, and I
think the straight men will be on the touch, going, well,
you actually just couldn't think about sex that way when
we're not around. Is that what it's like when we're
not there? Yeah, you know the girl on the couch
be like, oh no, darling, No, no, this is very no,
(16:16):
this must be this. Me and the girls would never
talk about our partners lie. But it is that just honey, Like,
I think we see the funny and the absurd inness
that I think men might you know, straight men I
think might find a little wee bit shocking.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
It's a peek into a world that they don't necessarily understand.
Like I was watching even the detail of you sitting
around a table full of cheesels and all this food,
and I was thinking about how straight men would even
not even think that women would be eating that kind
of food. Like, I know that that sounds like a
strange thing to say, but yeah, they don't see if.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
They go to the bathroom and eat cheesel yes, they're
like what, no on the fantasy for them?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Right, Yeah, that's exactly right. And I think that that's
why I'm saying that partners should sit down and watch it,
because I think men sitting there with their wives are
going to look at it very differently. And it's and
that's what TV, that's what contents should do, is make
us think and make us have conversation.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
You know, well, I think the long term can the
long form televisions and really, you know, it's just got
the time to go off his and often it's when
you're not just hitting the story, be hit in the
slot beats where I think those really funny moments are
in the unexpected moments where the plot can just go
(17:33):
into a little rabbit hole of whatever. And I think
they're the kind of the least or eggs, the joy
bombs of the show.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I love that the way in which you approach characters
and the way that you explore your themes feel so real,
and we're seeing more of that. I think in this
day and age, but you've been doing that for so long.
Like Ronda and Muriel's Wedding, you gave that person so
much reality that most of Australia thinks of Ronda as
(18:02):
a real person. You know, what is she doing now?
You know what I mean? Like that's the magic of
you and your commitment to the art. I guess look,
I think.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I just got really lucky that I came into the industry.
And even that was late. I think I was twenty
four twenty five maybe when I made Mereel's Wedding, and
literally up until that time, every single script, you know,
every audition I didn't get and it was still the
you know, she's beautiful but accessible, but you know it
(18:32):
was luminous and there was not a whole lot of
rooms for quirky girls. There was a bit of room
for the quirky men, I think in Australian cinema, but
not so much the girls. You know, like I remember
loving this side character Snowing Gallipoly, you know those kind
of there's always these quirky, funny men and even Ben Mendelssohn,
(18:55):
you know, you could you had your kind of leading men,
but you had these more character women, but we just
kind of didn't really have a history of our female characters,
you know, and very white and very same same and
very kind of, you know, middle class, and I just
didn't really think that role. I would find roles on
television particilarly, which was still very much network and there
(19:18):
was a networked type of beauty and a network like essibility.
And the girls that did well had that audience love them,
you know, and they were beautiful, but they were also
not intimidating kind of beauty, and I'm like, well, I'm
not that, So that was fine. I thought, I'll do Shakespeare,
I'll do I'll do the Cannon, I'll do modern Australian
(19:39):
plays and international plays. And then Muriels came along, and
that was the first time I thought I ever recognized
a character I knew, you know, in a urban, smart,
not neurotic, kind of can do fun girl who's also
you know, total wing wing man girl, you know, pick
(19:59):
you up when you down, take you out, and give
you a good time when you're brooding, laugh about shit
that happened instead of stewing on it. And they're you know,
I had girls like that in my circle. In fact,
one of the mine very much based under on who's Italian.
And some people do occasionally ask me if Ronda was
Greek or Italian because there is this kind of like, really,
(20:22):
you know, there's just this like oldie vibe that is
a that kind of migrant, take no prisoners, work hard,
play hard kind of girl.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Well, I went to donas Hi, and I think all
the girls that I went to school with were Ronda
lake Is in Donnie.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
High, the laugh of autpectation, right, and I kind of
show up sturdy, fucking reliable girl that's got your back
and isn't a bit Yeah, and growing up to me,
they were also the Italian freak. But yeah, occasionally they're like,
can I just ask you a weird question? Is Ronda
freak or with Ronder Italian? And I'm like, actually, it
was bad and they're like, oh, makes sense. I always
(20:58):
I always thought that. And then to kind of be
in such a juggernaut film in that kind of iconic
redefining young women and how they behave and how they
dress and what they look like, and a girl that's
driven by charisma rather than kind of beauty positiveting charisma,
and I think that, you know, was a real game changer,
(21:19):
and they were definitely you know, someone Louise was happening.
You know, they're both got dead women. So I think
that just opened up a few things that it wasn't
really until I got Six Feet Under. I think that
I got the next incarnation of that, and that was
like a good five years after, and I played a
lot of amazing roles like Philerine, Hillary and Jackie, but
(21:44):
they weren't quite that re defining feminine archetypes in cinema.
And you know, Six Feet Under redefined the mother archetype
in the American you know screen, and it redefined the
daughter and a girlfriend. Now were the three leads femi oles,
and he knew their archetypes because he's a kind of
(22:06):
Southern Gothic writer, you know, and they're all in the
Cat from the Hot Tin Roofs. They're all in those
Southern Gothic novels and plays, and he is bringing that
redefinition of the all American mother, you know, all American daughter,
and also the done the oldest son who's openly gay,
and the other one who's a bit of a shit show.
(22:28):
So that kind of just went so far to crack
open the possibility of female representation on American television from
a white, middle class point of view, and of course
there was a lot, you know, a lot of work
to be done breaking breaking down stereotypes for women in color,
and America's just waking up to the fascinations represent now
(22:51):
as Australia's been really at the bank guard internationally for
quite long time, and it really is a found an
amazing way.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
I have watched Six Been Under by the Way so
many times, and I know that this sounds like maybe
a sick thing to reveal, but I've rewatched the last
five minutes of that show so many times after a
few red Wines on a Friday or Saturday night, because
it's so compelling, like that last five minutes of six
Been Under It.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I think it's the best five minutes of television ever ever.
And I think it's one of those that's how you
finish the show because it's afterly right to the DNA
of the show, but it's also so human human.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
I've got goosebumps you're talking about it because it's so true, like.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
People were bawling, and then you know, the Sopranos finished
after us and everyone I'm sure that writer's room was
like and everyone's like yeah, and everyone's like, what are
we going to do? And everyone's like, I don't know where.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Fuck people hold it up now they must finish writing series.
When they find out you're on your last series, we've
got it tied up. They must hold that up as
a test you know, test case or whatever. They must go.
That's the benchmark that's been set. You know, how do you've.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Absolutely because it didn't leave the shark delivered. It delivered
the shark in the way that was always swimming, because
death was always the predator in the show. Yeah, but
it just delivered it in this extraordinary, extraordinary way. It
was breathtaking. And then see the song that no one
had ever heard.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Never heard of it. Yeah, but it became iconic. And
see a really overnight, overnight iconic. Like honestly, you can't
hear that. I can't hear that song without seeing it
like in real time, Like you know, it's a song
that you can play while you're driving your car and
you just think of that final scene with a car driving.
I don't know, there's just something about the progression of
life and and I don't know, it's very we could
(24:48):
literally podcast that.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
I've been bought to death by my brother.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
It was always going to happen. Yeah, of course, always happen.
It's always going to happen. It was the most well
written piece of television anyway. Well, before you go, just
one last thing. I have to finish the podcast with
I finish every time. What is something behind the scenes,
something that the audience won't see, but kind of a
behind the scene secret about your involvement with this show.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Madam God. Okay, so funny story. First day shooting, we
are in a brothel and we are shooting the scene
where I go to the brothel to watch basically go
what is this brothel business? And can I do it better?
And it's hilarious. It's the first time we meet Danniel mccormax.
(25:38):
She's got her sick, very fluffy, oversize cat in the rooms.
It is the smallest room ever. We have a semi
naked John, an intimacy coordinator, a dop, a sound side,
three actors on a room that's fairly bigger than a
(25:58):
cat in a real brothel that can I tell you,
has no windows. And I just started to not feel great,
like it's a bit funny. At lunch my make my
makeup artist is like, it seems gone really weird, and
she said, I don't know what's wrong, Like it's just
something that's like it's a makeup st sitting properly or
put more flush on, and she goes, I'm I'm gonna
(26:20):
have to do the eye.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Like.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Anyway, I got home and I really really really don't
feel well. I wake up at midnight and I'm like
by that stage, I'm like, I really don't feel well.
And I thought I'll do a COVID test. I'm fucking
I have OVID, and so the direct so the director
was in this room. So there's three actors, a cat.
(26:44):
Probably the cat is still alive, no cats for her
making this pou Anyway, I called them and they stood
everybody down because they just assumed that everybody and were
in a strombot eight hours is doing the sex thing,
which I am maybe thirty centimeters from Daddy's face, breathing
(27:08):
and talking to her while she's on a while she's Anyway,
they stood everybody down because they assumed it would be ripe.
Then they gave everybody they took proper blood. Then they
put everybody back on in marks that used the swing
dop anyway, nobody, nobody got COVID from that brothels and everybody.
(27:31):
Everybody was saying, it's a fucking miracle.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
It is a fucking miracle. I'm surprised. I thought the
story was going to end with and we went a lot.
We're not allowed to go back to set for six
weeks because everyone had COVID and they're like, you know,
that's what.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Happened in some of these actions, and we had no insurance.
It was an out foot shot show. Anyway, we were
all the same. It was a fucking miracle and it's Ironman.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Wow, people to watch Rachel. I can't wait for people
to watch this show. It is so much fun. I
want to thank you so much for your generosity with
your time. This has actually thanks being the best half
an hour of twenty twenty five. I can tell you
that right now. Loved it. Loved it. I'm going to
go and have a scream in the lound term hie
by now
It's in the news today, but it was actually on
TV Reload the podcast last week Their Life. Welcome back
to TV Reload. I want to thank you for clicking
and downloading on today's episode with Rachel Griffiths. I know
one of Australia's finest actors who is about to feature
in the scripted drama series Madam on Channel nine as
the protagonist but also as the producer. Rachel Griffiths, I'm
(00:22):
going to say, is one of my all time favorite actors,
not only in Australia but all around the world. And
I can tell you that I have loved her so
much that back in the day I used to mimic
the way that she spoke and would watch interviews of
her on YouTube over and over again. So you can
imagine how much fun I had today chatting with her
about this new series Madam. The story of Madam follows
(00:44):
an American character, Mackenzie otherwise known as Mack, who lives
a regular life in a small town of New Zealand
with her husband, Rob and their two sons. When mack
discovers that Rob has been seeing a sex worker, it
comes as a confronting surprise, and rather than feel angry,
which is quite surprising. Mack feels unexpectedly inspired, so with
(01:05):
a wish and a prayer, she sets up her own
ethical brothel. I know, it's kind of wild. It's like
nothing that you've seen on TV before. Rachel Griffiths will
unpack the reasons why she chose this project and the
interesting learnings that came from telling a story about sex work.
We will chat about her relationship with the other actors,
including Danniel McCormack, who you will know as b Smith
(01:27):
from Wentworth. I find out about Rachel's experience on set
and how getting COVID nearly shut down production. You will
get everything from some amazing insights into the character Ronda
from Muriel's wedding, what she thinks about six feet under
his finale all of these years later, and what Rachel
thinks about the potential of a series two of Madam.
(01:48):
There's actually a lot to unpack, and I'm telling you
we will get some fabulous inside revelations. So guys, sit
back and relax as we unpack the wonderful world of Madam,
which launches February fourth at nine pm on Channel nine
and nine. Now Hi, then Hi, Rachel, I was just
talking to our friend at Channel nine about my mild
(02:10):
obsession with you. So if I sound like I need
a Valium halfway through this chat because I'm a little
bit excited, I'll do it. Sorry the borders, Yeah, that's okay,
this is a podcast. We're all coming with you.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Oh no, I'm glad I didn't go in and put
you on mute and a p.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Well, it kind of might have been iconic. I end
up in the Daily Mail.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Had a pea. All right, I'm just sitting down there.
I go really going around the block.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
This is kind of what I was infecting, though, do
you know what I mean? Like, this is the real
Rachel Griffith. I'm here to do the LORRYHD. I've just
been diagnosed with it. So look, I can tell you
all about ADHD. It's like the price.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
No, I do have ADHD and I always have had.
And hey, welcome to the neuros fivety club. Perpetual chaots.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
But don't you think that creatives It sort of works
so well. Like I think about all the work that
you have been able to achieve creatively, and I wonder
whether or not you would have been able to do
that if you didn't have the ADHD. It's kind of
who you should think, you know, when you win your
Oscar ADHD.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Definitely, I did find a place where you don't really
have to multitask. You go full focus and immersion and
then go down any rabbit hole like I'm sudden an
expert in skin rejuvenation for burn victims and you go
down that rabbit hole and it's like suddenly, I'll be
(03:37):
an expert in being a madam. So it is very
very suitable for those ADHD rabbit holes that find themselves,
you know, getting locked down those rabbit holes, and you
can say I'm working done, and I'm not going I'm
actually working.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I'm hyper focusing. You know. It's funny. I was on
Chapel Street once and you were You had someone pitching
a TV show on the table next to me, like
while I was having my lunch and I shouldn't have
been listening, but it was very fascinating because they were
approaching you about doing a story doing Telly Television back
in Australigy. I think you'd been wrapping Brothers and Sisters
around that time, and it was fascinating because I heard
you say to the man you're not quite ready to
(04:15):
go yet, but you've got a great idea. And I
remember thinking you were so honest with this person about
what he was approaching you for. And I realized today
talking to you signing up for something like Madam, what
was it about this project that made you go, Oh,
that's what I wanted. I want to hope a focus
on that interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So yeah, no, I definitely met where I was at
in my life on kind of you know, for a
lot of reasons, I've been offered a lot of Madams
in my life, and the shows are usually creepy or pervy,
or about the dark exploitation of women's bodies while smultaneously
(04:53):
being pervy and creepy, if you know what I'm saying,
Like it's even worse because you're making it dark and
pretty and dirty, but you're also kind getting off on it.
And one of my favorite roles I've played was a
sex worker in A Honey's QURESHI adaptation of one of
his novellas, I'm called my Son a Fanatic, and it
was just such a beautiful human, not pervy, really really
(05:15):
about something trying of movie and every single matter m
I've been offered since it's just been pervy's and always
men showrunners and really circumspect, you know, And I guess
I grew up in a time when it was kind
of okay to have a twelve year old Jodie Foster
or a twelve year old Bookshield play child fastagues in
(05:38):
movies that were actually just fucking pervy as far and
would never be made now with particularly an underage actor
in a role. And even then, why would you so
when a movie and that, you know, when this came
along and I heard the background of a true story
like you know, kind of middle aged woman living in
rural New Zealand with a with the pound difical disabilities
(06:02):
buye with this new side hospital after realizing that sex
wort's the criminalize that she can open a brothl and
do it better than the skanky brothels that she's on
to visit. It just kind of really run through on
this kind of seminomics, effent i dot. This show actually
gets into the really smart part and dried seminomic of
(06:24):
when a woman, particularly a mother or any woman who's
both independent and trying to sustain herself and or family,
makes that decision like op at a job, how long,
you know, how long does it take to get there?
How long do I have to work for? And how
much money does it pay. She's you know, in a
(06:45):
place where it's an hour and a half to get
to a nursing home, where she's on minimum wage and
she can never do drop off and pick up or
do use design a life for this? And that's you know,
every job I get is how long, how far? How much?
How long does it go for, how far from home
is it because you just have to leave home to
you know, to provide, and how much money? And that's
(07:08):
equation and then it's kind of how good is it?
So I really kind of loved the grounded nature of
that decision making process and found it really universal to
all women, especially with you know, cozy lives and everyone's
on a hustle and how much it's for childcare, and
it just kind of gave me a lot more respects
(07:28):
for a decision making process. It's actually a really practical,
kind of no brainer for a lot of women to
do this. They've been mas sisters or they've been working
in agekre and they're like, if I'm in agekre, I'm
wiping answers. I'm wiping shit, I'm wiping kiss, I'm cleaning
old people and dealing with crazy clients and this is
how much money I make or I'm kind of doing
(07:49):
and I'm being caring and you know, making them feel
good and they go, well, I could just see that
six hours a week and actually have a much less
stressful life and just just rewarding. Like many of the
that I spoke to, you know, one girl said, we
don't solve sex, we treat loneliness. And I thought that
was so interesting.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
It's kind of poetic here. I mean, I think that
this show really works when it's because of the dynamics
amongst these women. And they are unusual women, they're different
in character. So when you see them come together to
solve something maybe as ridiculous as putting a boombox up your.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Bum bar, up the up the.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Bar, that's when the story really sings, because watching these
women come together and solve problems together is really powerful
and really funny and interesting and not slutty whatever that
word is, you know, not schmalming.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
No, we've really taken this lot out of the sex worker.
I mean, there's women are working hard, providing a really
satisfying service. And I think we do get a good
cross section of the type of people that the women
I spoke to. You know, there's one girl I spoke
to them like her top three clients are widow is
in their late sixties seventies, and they just actually really
(09:04):
really missed being kind of touched and hold and you know,
and looked at and told they're awesome and hot. And
I think when you go into the date your dating
market in the seventies, you know, it's really hard and
hard to get to that point where you just kind
of want your hair strokes or the three hairs left
on your head stroke and just have a young girl say,
(09:27):
how are you done? It's so good to see you,
and it just makes them feel good. And I spoke
to women, you know, some of their clients had physical disabilities,
some were you know, men in much larger bodies that also,
you know, found this threshold of finding intimacy, you know,
the normal way a bit more challenging, and just found
(09:49):
the kind of generosity of going to the sex worker
to see you know, just a lot a lot less
other mind field than negotiating that in other ways. So
that was like a really really interesting.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I loved my Life as Murder and I thought that
Shashana had done such an amazing job with that story.
Was working alongside the creative team behind that sort of
giving you the confidence to dive into this world, that
you could dive into this world in a way that
may be sort of similar to My life as Murder.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Parry McNaughty and Shoshana definitely, you know, they really wanted
this to be seen by women in the industry and
not go oh my god, like how many times And
they all said the same thing. Whenever we see it
represented as a joke. You know, it's disrespectful. It's not
like it is. They just don't get it. And I think,
(10:42):
having you know, a queer and a female showrunner too,
it's that thing that you know when when we talk
about sex, we're always laughing, like it's really funny. And
when we have sex, you know that when we see
two dogs at the past, you know, we're like, oh
my god, you know you're well, you're right, Well, I
think two dogs were at the puck ands or two
humans fucking in the park that did the same thing,
(11:04):
like oh god, put it away, Oh my god, and
the dogs start fucking laughing at the two people, you know,
dogging it in the park. They're probably like, oh please,
please come on, oh my god, and be laughing. But
so often when we see sex portrade, I think because
we're trying to get the audience's rocks off a little bit.
(11:24):
So there's that erotic and it's always hot, traditionally hot people,
not with a kind of inclusive body positive you know,
lens over it all. So I think that they were
both really rarely committed to the representation stuff. And then
I think what I brought was just the menopause of it.
I'm like, this chick is in perimenopause. She's fucking had
(11:45):
a gut pull. She's up to here, she's third yum
a testop thrown and it does two things. That makes
her cranky, gives her a rage and gives her the
energy to maybe have one more push of changing her
life to make it look like what she dream to
de beate. And she's a really educated woman. If you
have told that girl had just graduated from Berkeley, that
(12:06):
she'd be stuck in New Zealand with her husband, the
not necessarily pulling its ways, and she's got the mental
load and she's tired of it, and she's not a
famous author, probably doesn't even have a publisher, and life
just has not been full of the promise that this bright, young,
probably ADHD girl you know, was promised or told she
(12:28):
could have because she was smart and she's beautiful and
adventurous and spirited, but life had kind of other plans
to her. And you know, I don't know a family
with a child with special needs who isn't driving a
twenty five year old car and really really struggling to
have enough leftover after the you know, all the things
(12:49):
that are required to kind of have the joint sparkling
life joined sparkle as the last family holidays, because so
that can be very difficult. And it's just she's lost
in drudgery. So she's got this idea of this business
that might you know, be good for her family and
give her something make her days a bit more unpredictable
(13:12):
and fun and surprising, and you know, also give her
a workplace of really quirky, passionate women instead of being
alone and half bound.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
You really want her to succeed, mac like as in
you just she's very relatable in lots of ways. I mean,
my favorite scene of the whole thing was when one
of the clients turns up and none of the other
women are there, and he says, come on, can you
just give me a hand job? And she goes no,
And you kind of did that Rachel Griffith thing where
you did that look into the sky as if to think,
why the fuck did that man just ask me that
(13:43):
and just kept walking.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Five second season, she'd probably go, all right, come on,
but I'm on Madam, so it's double I think by then,
I think those boundaries might break down a little bit.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Well, I'm up to episode five and I'm Daniel McCormack,
who is just so brilliant. I was obsessed with her.
Isn't she great in this as well? Like there's some
you know, she's very different from be that we saw
and went worth texis.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Fuck. Her body is like rock and so the thing
you want and I know this because I'm normally in
the supporting actor role, I know what you need to
bring to your lead actor is really you need an
a game person to grow bombs in the path to
your happiness, and the bomb have to land and they've
(14:31):
got to hurt, and you know that's kind of what
I think for deb on total control, and the better
the actor is in that supporting role, the more kind
of grateful the lead us, because thank you giving me
some like real shit to deal with. And Mac is
not really an alpha girl. She's a kind of girl
(14:52):
with some ideas and she's probably really out of a
debt even running a business. So when an actual apex
predator alpha girl comes in, like terrified. Fuck. These are
the girls that I didn't manage at school. These are
the kind of women in the mothers club that fucking
judge me, that terrify me, that I've never said the
right thing, to have never got the upper hand on.
(15:13):
And then I'm dealing with Daniel McCormack just growing shit
in my bed.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I just think she's so fantastic and the contrast of
your two characters is just delicious. I'm up to episode five,
so I can't wait to see I feel like she's
coming into the series a little bit more so I'm
looking for to that. I want anyone listening to this
podcast right now to really go into this show with
an open mind, because it is something we haven't really
seen before, and it is really delicious, and I think
(15:41):
you've got to sit down with your partners and watch it,
because it makes you want to have a conversation about
sex in a different way, and it makes you want
to talk about I don't know your body in a
different way. Something quite amazing about what this show does
to the viewer.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
I think that's right. Look, I think we have folks
and women will go coosely bred ignite it, and I
think the straight men will be on the touch, going, well,
you actually just couldn't think about sex that way when
we're not around. Is that what it's like when we're
not there? Yeah, you know the girl on the couch
be like, oh no, darling, No, no, this is very no,
(16:16):
this must be this. Me and the girls would never
talk about our partners lie. But it is that just honey, Like,
I think we see the funny and the absurd inness
that I think men might you know, straight men I
think might find a little wee bit shocking.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
It's a peek into a world that they don't necessarily understand.
Like I was watching even the detail of you sitting
around a table full of cheesels and all this food,
and I was thinking about how straight men would even
not even think that women would be eating that kind
of food. Like, I know that that sounds like a
strange thing to say, but yeah, they don't see if.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
They go to the bathroom and eat cheesel yes, they're
like what, no on the fantasy for them?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Right, Yeah, that's exactly right. And I think that that's
why I'm saying that partners should sit down and watch it,
because I think men sitting there with their wives are
going to look at it very differently. And it's and
that's what TV, that's what contents should do, is make
us think and make us have conversation.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
You know, well, I think the long term can the
long form televisions and really, you know, it's just got
the time to go off his and often it's when
you're not just hitting the story, be hit in the
slot beats where I think those really funny moments are
in the unexpected moments where the plot can just go
(17:33):
into a little rabbit hole of whatever. And I think
they're the kind of the least or eggs, the joy
bombs of the show.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I love that the way in which you approach characters
and the way that you explore your themes feel so real,
and we're seeing more of that. I think in this
day and age, but you've been doing that for so long.
Like Ronda and Muriel's Wedding, you gave that person so
much reality that most of Australia thinks of Ronda as
(18:02):
a real person. You know, what is she doing now?
You know what I mean? Like that's the magic of
you and your commitment to the art. I guess look,
I think.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I just got really lucky that I came into the industry.
And even that was late. I think I was twenty
four twenty five maybe when I made Mereel's Wedding, and
literally up until that time, every single script, you know,
every audition I didn't get and it was still the
you know, she's beautiful but accessible, but you know it
(18:32):
was luminous and there was not a whole lot of
rooms for quirky girls. There was a bit of room
for the quirky men, I think in Australian cinema, but
not so much the girls. You know, like I remember
loving this side character Snowing Gallipoly, you know those kind
of there's always these quirky, funny men and even Ben Mendelssohn,
(18:55):
you know, you could you had your kind of leading men,
but you had these more character women, but we just
kind of didn't really have a history of our female characters,
you know, and very white and very same same and
very kind of, you know, middle class, and I just
didn't really think that role. I would find roles on
television particilarly, which was still very much network and there
(19:18):
was a networked type of beauty and a network like essibility.
And the girls that did well had that audience love them,
you know, and they were beautiful, but they were also
not intimidating kind of beauty, and I'm like, well, I'm
not that, So that was fine. I thought, I'll do Shakespeare,
I'll do I'll do the Cannon, I'll do modern Australian
(19:39):
plays and international plays. And then Muriels came along, and
that was the first time I thought I ever recognized
a character I knew, you know, in a urban, smart,
not neurotic, kind of can do fun girl who's also
you know, total wing wing man girl, you know, pick
(19:59):
you up when you down, take you out, and give
you a good time when you're brooding, laugh about shit
that happened instead of stewing on it. And they're you know,
I had girls like that in my circle. In fact,
one of the mine very much based under on who's Italian.
And some people do occasionally ask me if Ronda was
Greek or Italian because there is this kind of like, really,
(20:22):
you know, there's just this like oldie vibe that is
a that kind of migrant, take no prisoners, work hard,
play hard kind of girl.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Well, I went to donas Hi, and I think all
the girls that I went to school with were Ronda
lake Is in Donnie.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
High, the laugh of autpectation, right, and I kind of
show up sturdy, fucking reliable girl that's got your back
and isn't a bit Yeah, and growing up to me,
they were also the Italian freak. But yeah, occasionally they're like,
can I just ask you a weird question? Is Ronda
freak or with Ronder Italian? And I'm like, actually, it
was bad and they're like, oh, makes sense. I always
(20:58):
I always thought that. And then to kind of be
in such a juggernaut film in that kind of iconic
redefining young women and how they behave and how they
dress and what they look like, and a girl that's
driven by charisma rather than kind of beauty positiveting charisma,
and I think that, you know, was a real game changer,
(21:19):
and they were definitely you know, someone Louise was happening.
You know, they're both got dead women. So I think
that just opened up a few things that it wasn't
really until I got Six Feet Under. I think that
I got the next incarnation of that, and that was
like a good five years after, and I played a
lot of amazing roles like Philerine, Hillary and Jackie, but
(21:44):
they weren't quite that re defining feminine archetypes in cinema.
And you know, Six Feet Under redefined the mother archetype
in the American you know screen, and it redefined the
daughter and a girlfriend. Now were the three leads femi oles,
and he knew their archetypes because he's a kind of
(22:06):
Southern Gothic writer, you know, and they're all in the
Cat from the Hot Tin Roofs. They're all in those
Southern Gothic novels and plays, and he is bringing that
redefinition of the all American mother, you know, all American daughter,
and also the done the oldest son who's openly gay,
and the other one who's a bit of a shit show.
(22:28):
So that kind of just went so far to crack
open the possibility of female representation on American television from
a white, middle class point of view, and of course
there was a lot, you know, a lot of work
to be done breaking breaking down stereotypes for women in color,
and America's just waking up to the fascinations represent now
(22:51):
as Australia's been really at the bank guard internationally for
quite long time, and it really is a found an
amazing way.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
I have watched Six Been Under by the Way so
many times, and I know that this sounds like maybe
a sick thing to reveal, but I've rewatched the last
five minutes of that show so many times after a
few red Wines on a Friday or Saturday night, because
it's so compelling, like that last five minutes of six
Been Under It.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I think it's the best five minutes of television ever ever.
And I think it's one of those that's how you
finish the show because it's afterly right to the DNA
of the show, but it's also so human human.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
I've got goosebumps you're talking about it because it's so true, like.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
People were bawling, and then you know, the Sopranos finished
after us and everyone I'm sure that writer's room was
like and everyone's like yeah, and everyone's like, what are
we going to do? And everyone's like, I don't know where.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Fuck people hold it up now they must finish writing series.
When they find out you're on your last series, we've
got it tied up. They must hold that up as
a test you know, test case or whatever. They must go.
That's the benchmark that's been set. You know, how do you've.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Absolutely because it didn't leave the shark delivered. It delivered
the shark in the way that was always swimming, because
death was always the predator in the show. Yeah, but
it just delivered it in this extraordinary, extraordinary way. It
was breathtaking. And then see the song that no one
had ever heard.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Never heard of it. Yeah, but it became iconic. And
see a really overnight, overnight iconic. Like honestly, you can't
hear that. I can't hear that song without seeing it
like in real time, Like you know, it's a song
that you can play while you're driving your car and
you just think of that final scene with a car driving.
I don't know, there's just something about the progression of
life and and I don't know, it's very we could
(24:48):
literally podcast that.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
I've been bought to death by my brother.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
It was always going to happen. Yeah, of course, always happen.
It's always going to happen. It was the most well
written piece of television anyway. Well, before you go, just
one last thing. I have to finish the podcast with
I finish every time. What is something behind the scenes,
something that the audience won't see, but kind of a
behind the scene secret about your involvement with this show.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Madam God. Okay, so funny story. First day shooting, we
are in a brothel and we are shooting the scene
where I go to the brothel to watch basically go
what is this brothel business? And can I do it better?
And it's hilarious. It's the first time we meet Danniel mccormax.
(25:38):
She's got her sick, very fluffy, oversize cat in the rooms.
It is the smallest room ever. We have a semi
naked John, an intimacy coordinator, a dop, a sound side,
three actors on a room that's fairly bigger than a
(25:58):
cat in a real brothel that can I tell you,
has no windows. And I just started to not feel great,
like it's a bit funny. At lunch my make my
makeup artist is like, it seems gone really weird, and
she said, I don't know what's wrong, Like it's just
something that's like it's a makeup st sitting properly or
put more flush on, and she goes, I'm I'm gonna
(26:20):
have to do the eye.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Like.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Anyway, I got home and I really really really don't
feel well. I wake up at midnight and I'm like
by that stage, I'm like, I really don't feel well.
And I thought I'll do a COVID test. I'm fucking
I have OVID, and so the direct so the director
was in this room. So there's three actors, a cat.
(26:44):
Probably the cat is still alive, no cats for her
making this pou Anyway, I called them and they stood
everybody down because they just assumed that everybody and were
in a strombot eight hours is doing the sex thing,
which I am maybe thirty centimeters from Daddy's face, breathing
(27:08):
and talking to her while she's on a while she's Anyway,
they stood everybody down because they assumed it would be ripe.
Then they gave everybody they took proper blood. Then they
put everybody back on in marks that used the swing
dop anyway, nobody, nobody got COVID from that brothels and everybody.
(27:31):
Everybody was saying, it's a fucking miracle.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
It is a fucking miracle. I'm surprised. I thought the
story was going to end with and we went a lot.
We're not allowed to go back to set for six
weeks because everyone had COVID and they're like, you know,
that's what.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Happened in some of these actions, and we had no insurance.
It was an out foot shot show. Anyway, we were
all the same. It was a fucking miracle and it's Ironman.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Wow, people to watch Rachel. I can't wait for people
to watch this show. It is so much fun. I
want to thank you so much for your generosity with
your time. This has actually thanks being the best half
an hour of twenty twenty five. I can tell you
that right now. Loved it. Loved it. I'm going to
go and have a scream in the lound term hie
by now
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.