Isaac Hayes III: Reshaping the Digital Content Landscape

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week on Unglossy .

Speaker 2 (00:02):
I was in the Apple store.
I went to the Apple store atLenox and I said, hmm, let me
ask this young employee.
I said, who's your favoriteartist?
And instinctively I'm thinkingshe's going to name somebody
extremely popular.
Yeah.
So I thought she would namelike Ariana Grande or Miley
Cyrus, and she named some indieband that I had never heard of
and I said, let me ask you aquestion no-transcript.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
I'm Tom.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Frank, I'm Mickey Fax .

Speaker 4 (00:51):
And I'm Jeffrey Sledge.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Welcome to Unglossy the coning brand and culture.
I'm Tom Frank, partner andchief creative officer at Merit
Creative.
This is Mickey Fax hip-hopartist and founder and CEO of
Pendulum Inc.
And that is Jeffrey Sledge, aseasoned music industry veteran
who has worked with some of thebiggest artists in the business.
We're here to explore themoments of vulnerability,
pivotal decisions and creativesparks that fuel the

(01:14):
relationship between brand andculture.
Get ready for athought-provoking journey into
the heart and soul of brandingthe unscripted, unfiltered and
truly unglossy truth.
Today, on Unglossy, we'rejoined by a multi-talented
entrepreneur, producer and techinnovator who's making waves
both in the music industry andbeyond Isaac Hayes III.

(01:35):
The son of legendary soul icon,isaac Hayes has carved out his
own path, fusing creativity andtechnologies in ways that push
boundaries.
As the founder of crowdfundingplatform, I wouldn't call it a
crowdfunding platform.
I would call it a creatorplatform.
Yes, fanbase Isaac ischampioning a new era of digital
monetization for creators,empowering them to earn from
their content and own theirnarratives.

(01:56):
We'll dive into his journey,the vision behind Fanbase and
how he's shaping the future ofcontent creation.
Awesome how you doing, sir.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
I'm doing great.
That's a great intro.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Is that a good intro?

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, man, it makes me feel like important, you are
important.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Sometimes, sometimes, all right, we got to dive in on
fan base because I am a fan.
Okay, a fan base.
Am I allowed to say I'm aninvestor as well?

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Yeah, I'm an investor .

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Oh, I was early.

Speaker 4 (02:24):
I was early too.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
I wasn't well, you might've been earlier than me.

Speaker 4 (02:26):
I didn't know you were an investor.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
I'm a minimal investor.
Look, a little goes a long wayEvery dime counts, every dime
counts, right, so you got to.
Let's start by this.
I want to know your inspiration.
Like what?
What made you say cause you'rewhat you're doing, you're going
up against big, big, big socialplatforms.
Like what inspired you to startFanbase?

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Black culture inspired me to start Fanbase
because I was realizing theeconomic engine of social media
was black culture.
So there's thisdisproportionate relationship,
this exploitive relationship,between the infrastructure of
social media and the contentcreators that make the platforms

(03:11):
popular.
They have trends, and then thattrickles down to other creators
that may not look like us, thatcapitalize off the creation of
others, and then they're theones that wind up getting the
huge brand deals or endorsements, but not the young kid that
creates the challenge or thedance or the skit, that lives,
you know, in the middle of Texas, and so the ability to monetize

(03:31):
content was important to me.
So I was like we need to makeit.
So there's a direct path forpeople to support individuals
through in-app purchasetechnology.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, and what I mean ?
It's one thing to have a greatidea, it's one thing to do it
for a cause, but it's anotherthing to create an entire social
media platform.
I mean, that's pretty daunting.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, it's crazy, cause I didn't plan on doing it.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
I didn't plan on making an app but what did you
plan on doing that?
How?
How were you going to?
I mean, that was your challenge, right?
That was your North star.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
No, I mean, that was your challenge, right, that was
your North star.
No, I literally had no ideathat, had no plans on building
an app.
Oh, so that what happened is Iget ideas and then if I have a
way that I think I can build anidea, then I move forward.
So this kid goes viral fromMemphis, tennessee, dancing in a
Spider-Man costume at aGameStop.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
This is the video that really got it going.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah.
And so he's dancing at aGameStop and he's going viral
and I just, you know,supportively sent him a message
and say congrats, you're fromMemphis, like yo, memphis is
going viral for dancing on, youknow, social media.
And he hopped in my DMs and waslike are you a manager?
Do you manage people?
Can you manage me?
He manager, do you managepeople, can you?
Manage me.
He sent me his number.

(04:44):
He said I come to atlanta I waslike okay, hold on.
I was just saying, I was sayingcongrats yeah and then he's like
all right, I was like I'll letyou know if I think of anything
or whatever.
Yeah, then I said, wait aminute.
I said not that they were, orthey have been, because they've
been very supportive of him.
His name is ghetto spider, butI was like if marvel and disney
didn't want him to use thatcostume, they could say stop

(05:04):
using our ip.
But he could really dance yeahso then I was like you know, we
need, we need an app wherepeople can subscribe to people
the same way we subscribe tonetflix.
Yep, and that is so.
Then I was like, okay, this isa cool idea.
Then I asked one of my friendswho was in her mid 30s what she

(05:28):
thought about subscribing toanother person and she said that
sounded like the stupidest shitshe ever heard.
I can say shit, right.
So she was like that's stupid.
And then I was in the Applestore.
I went to the Apple store atLenox and I said let me ask this
young employee and I asked herwhat her favorite band was.
Or I said, who's your favoriteartist?

(05:48):
And instinctively I'm thinkingshe's going to name somebody
extremely popular.
So I thought she would havenamed, like Ariana Grande or
Miley Cyrus, and she named someindie band that I had never
heard of.
And I said let me ask you aquestion For $4.99 a month, if
you could subscribe to this band, like on a social media
platform, and they might showyou like them working on their

(06:13):
album or they might you knowphotos of what they're doing,
and every now and then theymight sell you merch or you can
have the ability to buy ticketsbefore anybody else can buy
tickets because you'resubscribing.
And would you do it?
And her literal answer was fuck, yeah, it's only $4.99.
It walks off.
I was like, okay, I got tobuild this shit Because they get
it, because the youngergenerations will understand,
like my brother, they understand, he's 18.
He understands Cash App andStockX and the shoes show up and

(06:37):
he presses buttons and theyunderstand that culture.
Yeah, so then I trademarked thename Fanbase Because I'm always
I have a thing about makingsure you can protect an idea all
the way to fruit.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Well, that's a smart move, right Cause yeah, wait a
minute.
So you have and correct me ifI'm wrong you don't really come
from necessarily a techbackground, right?
So you're?
You came from music, musicbusiness.
Yeah, so a guy from the musicbusiness who did extremely well
in the music business decideshe's going to build a tech
platform.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Where do you even start?
At the Gathering Spot inAtlanta, Georgia.
So the Gathering Spot is amembership club founded by Ryan
Wilson and TK Peterson.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Ryan Wilson, who we're hoping to get on this show
.
Yeah, yes, good guy.
So.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Ryan Wilson and TK Peterson in the show.
Yes, good guy, Ryan Wilson andTK Peterson, and there in the
gathering spot were people thatwere part of the membership that
were in tech Three of them.
Their names are Jewel Burks,Justin Dawkins and Barry Givens,
and they had a company calledCollab Capital.
Jewel had started a companycalled Part Pick and sold it to

(07:43):
Amazon and so she had she had asuccessful exit.
Barry was at had his own techstartup and he was working for
tech stars, so my firstconversations were asking them
like well, how does tech work?

Speaker 1 (07:56):
You were, you were.
You started right from thebeginning.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, like what is like okay, what?
How is it structured?
How does it function?
How is structured?
How does it function?
How is it funded?
How are all?

Speaker 3 (08:13):
these things, you know, and they and they gave me
the, the blueprint, thefoundation.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
Fortunately enough for me, tech and the music
industry are very similar inthis way the vcs are like the
labels, the startups are likethe artists and the app store
charts are like the billboardcharts.
So when you start in, so when?
So?
If you have an app or you're anartist and you have no buzz,
you're just cold as ice and yougo to a VC, they might think you

(08:37):
have talent or it's a good idea, but the deal is going to be
shitty.
They're going to give you theseven album deal you know, on
half your publishing and allthat kind of stuff jeffrey,
you'll know a lot about that,absolutely I've seen it a
million times, so so I was like,oh so if I pay for it myself,
if I fund it myself, then I'mindependent.

(08:59):
And so then I said, okay, so I,I, so I, I made money licensing
my music.
So I took a chance, I, I, Iadvanced myself $200,000 from my
royalties that I would havemade licensing my music and that
gave me the ability to buildwhat we call an MVP in tech,
which is a minimum viableproducts or prototype of what

(09:19):
fan base would be.
But it was a functioning appthat worked on the app store.
Now, the part about getting tothe point where I build that is
very, very, very kind of like, Iwould say, destiny or god or
whatever, because I hadinitially sought out black
developers to help build this,because I was really again, my
whole goal is we need to buildinfrastructure.

(09:41):
So I was having challengesdoing that.
Either the individual was justbusy, they were just successful
people, or some of them mightnot have gelled as well.
Fortunately enough for me, myattorney, drew Jackson.
He's been my attorney since2004.
He said, hey, I know this guy.
He built a website for us whenI did this movie.

(10:03):
Guy like he built a website forus when I did this movie.
He built the website for ourmovie, but he is a soccer player
a former professional soccerplayer from argentina, but he
lives here in atlanta, and hehas a development company and
the the development team is inargentina, but he lives here.
So I'm pretty sure you couldget the app built for way

(10:24):
cheaper, and he's a really gooddude.
I was like.
I introduced him to him.
His name is Romero Cannavas, some and Romero meet, have a
meeting, we hit it off and thenboom, I pay him to build fan
base.
So that's how it really happens.
I did trademark the name, gavehim the concept, had my vision
and they built what.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
I and he's still here as part of it, Correct, so that
so.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
so part of my education with Barry and Justin
and Jewel was, they said, isaac,in the tech space, your CTO has
to be usually as the co-founderof the company or has some sort
of equity in the company.
And the reason why that isimportant is because when you go
eventually, if you decide toraise money from venture capital

(11:10):
, they have to know that thebuttons are going to do what you
say they can do and there'ssomebody there to make sure that
happens.
And so if your CTO doesn't haveequity in your company, no
one's ever going to lend you anymoney.
You're never going to getanybody to invest in you because
he could walk away from thewhole project.
Now, who's here to run thisthing?
And you're not there.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
It's a great lesson right there.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
Right, invaluable lesson.
So, fortunately enough for me,romero had been in business for
about a decade and one day hecomes to me he says hey, this is
after maybe a year of us.
Just, I built the app and letit sit.
What year was this?
So I came up with the idea inMarch of 2018.

(11:51):
Okay, we built it from July toDecember 2018.
Okay 2019,.
I put it up on the app store anddidn't tell anybody that I
built it.
I didn't want anybody to knowbecause at the time I didn't
want to associate myself withthe app, because I think apps
are non-denominational.

(12:11):
They're not Democrat, they'renot Republican, they're not
anything, they're just apps.
And also understanding thattypically someone's going to
question how you get your users,and I have relationships, so if
I can say, hey, I built thisapp, how many users you got.
Oh, we have 10,000 users.

(12:32):
Oh, that's cool.
Well, where did you get theusers from?
And it's not organic, if I say.
Oh well, I called up my friendsin the music business and told
them to download the app, andthey told some people.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
They were like but that's not organic growth.
So typically you want to walkinto a conversation with
somebody where they can't tellyou no, which is smart too,
because you could have easilywent that route and immediately
got some traction, but itwouldn't have been lasting
traction Right and it would havegiven any VC the reason to say
well, that I was already heading.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
I've already know what you're going to say.
It's not organic and I wantedto see if the concept, we had
that proof of concept.
So in that one year that weleft it up, people were making
money.
In fact, one user made about$6,000 in a year, with less than
10,000 users just monetizingtheir photos and videos.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
That's pretty amazing through subscription.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, Also.
Something that was interestingat the time is when I researched
, you know, this type of model.
It didn't exist.
Yeah you know this type ofmodel.
It didn't exist, so there wasno mechanism for a person to use
their phone to subscribe to ahuman being only to games and
like music streaming servicesand video on demand services,

(13:36):
but not to a human being.
You could still do that usingyour credit card through a
platform like Patreon orwhatever you know, OnlyFans,
Because I remember hearing aboutOnlyFans.
Onlyfans had come out like ayear before I came up with the
idea for Famics like 2017, 2016.
But it was heavily pornographicand I was doing my research.

(13:57):
What's out here?
I said, okay, there's an appcalled Patreon.
There's an app called OnlyFans.
I said, yeah, but I want thequick trip of social media.
I don't know if you have aquick trip where you're from,
but do you know what quick tripis?

Speaker 4 (14:09):
It's a convenience store.
It's basically like a Wawa.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, like a Wawa or Sheetz or something like that.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
There's a unique thing about quick trip.
What's the unique thing?
It's the most ingeniousbusiness model I've ever seen.
There's four things that makeQuick Trip a model of efficiency
.
One all the stores have theexact same floor plan.
Okay.
So if you go on one quick trip,you've gone in them all, so you
know exactly where to go.
Two oddly enough and you trythis, if you ever run so quickly

(14:36):
, the doors open both ways.
So it's never, you never pullthe door and it's jarring.
Yeah, it's a saloon.
You, you never pull the door andit's jarring Like, yeah, it's,
it's a saloon, you push it, itopens, you pull it up.
It's either or left side.
Three they're open 24 hours aday, seven days a week, every
holiday.
They never, ever, ever close.
And four, it was one of theonly convenience stores I know

(15:00):
that you could just beep andwalk out.
You didn't have to sign, youjust hit it literally.
A cashier could run tworegisters yeah, they do.
They do run two registers theyrun more than two sometimes you
do over here, you're over hereand it's just a revolving quick
trip so I wanted the ability forpeople to not have to put in a
CVV and an address.
I just wanted people to clickand subscribe so with their face

(15:23):
or with their fingerprintsubscribe.
So that whole mechanism didn'texist in and all that.
I just want people to click andsubscribe so with their face or
with their fingerprintsubscribe.
So that whole mechanism didn'texist and Apple and Google would
not let us build it at first.
And I was scared shitless.
Why didn't they want you tobuild it first?
Because the way that they didsubscriptions initially was they
had this thing called asubscription profile.
So basically, on the back end,they let you know they know all

(15:44):
the called a subscriptionprofile.
So basically, on the back end,they let you know they know all
the subscriptions that you have.
So they know that you're onSpotify, you're on Netflix,
you're on Hulu, and they call ita profile.
So their response to usinitially was we're not going to
let you build an app where, intheory, a person could subscribe
to 20 people and you wind upwith 10 million users and we

(16:06):
have to keep up with 2 billionsubscription profiles because
they would be each differentsubscriptions, profiles, yeah,
so every so you're subscribingto 20 people.
That's 20 profiles yeah and thenyou get.
So we got 2 billion profiles tokeep up with.
We're not gonna let you do thatwhich I can see why and then I
was like shit because we hadalready started building the app
and we were like literally way,way, way down the path.

(16:30):
And Ramiro, being the brilliantCTO that he is, he goes.
Well, listen, they have rules.
They say each subscription hasto have a profile, and we go hmm
, he goes.
You know what this means, andhe goes.
Hmm, he goes.
You know what this means, andhe goes.
No, he goes.
If we're able to do this theway they say, we have to do it.
You're about to do somethingthat no one has ever done before

(16:51):
and I was like that's awesome.
So we thought about it and wesaid okay, we want the ability
for people to subscribe tomultiple people.
So what we did is a tieredsystem.
So the MVP of fan base allowsyou to subscribe to one person,
three people or five people but,each one was a profile.
So if you subscribe to oneperson, that's a profile.

(17:13):
If you went up to three, youswapped out the one for the
three.
If you went up to five, youswapped out the three for the
five, and that's how we wereable to launch it.
So we launched with that modelone, three or five, it's tiered.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
So wait, take a step back then.
So, fan base in general, youhave content creators that are
on there.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Users Users.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Users and then you have what are the other ones?
So if I'm a user who's notcreating content, but I'm
subscribing Without it.
Everybody is.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
So everybody is a user.
Every single person on socialmedia is a user and a content
creator simultaneously.
Got it Want to know why.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Every time you comment that's content.
That's a good point.
Every time, if you post a photoonce a year or once a day,
they're running an ad next to it.
Yeah, so you are a contentcreator.
Okay, you know, like I said, ifyou're just scrolling some
people just scroll social mediayeah but a lot of times people
might scroll but they mightcomment.
They might not post that, butthey might comment.
You're still creating content.
You're creating engagement,you're creating a conversation.

(18:14):
You're going back and forth inthe comments.
That's content yeah so everyperson on social media is a user
and a content creator at thesame time.
The problem is that we spentthe last 20 years being prime,
that our content has no value.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
Cause we're.
We're creating all this contentand then the advertisers
sitting there making all themoney for showing product.
They're making it on both ends.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Platforms making the money by allowing the
advertisers to run their contentin between your content.
So, I was like, well, that's,that's not cool.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
So they're benefiting off of all of the production,
of all of the content, whetherit's a comment, whether it's a
photo, whether it's somebodywho's actively putting lots of
stuff up there 100%.

Speaker 4 (18:53):
It's like free.
It's kind of like in the musicbusiness.
It's akin to when MTV and BETwere hot.
The labels would make thesevideos.
There was no return oninvestment, zero.
So we were feeding MTV theircontent.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
And then they're selling advertising.
They're selling advertisingbased on the videos.

Speaker 4 (19:13):
Exactly off TRL and the big shows.
But the labels you know, don'tcry for the labels, but the
labels were supplying thecontent, but it was nothing.
It wasn't like okay, after thatthen we'll sell the video.
It was nothing.
You spend a million dollars ona video.
It goes on MTV.
Hopefully it drives sales forthe album, Right, but for the
MTV he's not paying you nothing,he's like thanks.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Matter of fact, to the point it might have made.
You got to pay us to put it onhere.
If we get big enough, you mighthave to your spot, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (19:42):
It was definitely money involved with going on TRL
or 106 countdowns or getting toperform on there and all that.
They were just providingcontent and they're just making
billions and it was crazy.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
What was interesting about that is that in that
process, social media haddetermined that.
Okay, but users want attentionmore than they want money.
That's exactly yeah.
Dopamine.
So don't believe that, whenyou're on these platforms, that
they're not spending millions ofdollars with social
psychologists to understand whatmakes humans tick, what gets

(20:16):
you to stay on an app, whatmakes you feel good, what makes
you happy and it's the attention, it's the adoration, it's the
light.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
It's the attention, it's the adoration, it's the
likes, it's the views, and soperfect we give you views, you
give us content, we make money.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
That's the formula.
That's the formula for 20 yearsnow.
Yeah, right, but now video ispart of social media.
So now it's not me just takinga photo of my food or tweeting.
Now I'm getting ring lights andcameras and you know, I got
labs and I'm using yeah, we'reproducing content so now there's
a cost.
My time is a lot more laborintensive, but it's.

(20:53):
I'm still giving it away forfree yeah so it's just like the
mixtape era.
It's like social media.
I say right now is in the iswhere the mixtape era was where
it's like we give you all thiscontent for free.
Hopefully one of your pieceshit, you become famous.
Then you're able to monetizethat fame after the fact and
then hopefully you're able toturn that into a career, because

(21:14):
for every funny Marco Drew skiand Desi banks there's 20,000
that get burned out.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
But there are people making money on Instagram, on
YouTube, on all these otherplatforms right now.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, but they're receiving.
So the issue and they will tellyou that themselves is that
it's an unstable environmentbecause the percentage that a
platform might pay out for adrevenue can fluctuate.
So one month your YouTube mightmake $20,000.
They might change the way youget paid out and the next month
it might make $4,000.
They might change the way youget paid out.
The next month it might make$4,000.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
You really never have any idea.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
You can't build a business not knowing
specifically how much moneyyou're making.

Speaker 4 (21:56):
And or YouTube can just shut you down or they
monetize you for whatever reasonthey come up with.
You got no control over it.
It's like nah, we're changingthat, that you can't do that, no
more.
It's like damn.
So you know.
Hence the reason people wouldsay pew, pew now on tiktok or on
a live themselves, becausecertain keywords they'll just
shut you down.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
Then you're making no money yeah and typically in in
our, the black community.
It's a very unfiltered.
So we might be talking aboutsmoking weed, it might be some
when we say shit, damn, ass,whatever.
And so to advertisers theydon't want their ads running

(22:37):
next to that.
So now the company has to makea business decision.
But the irony is that thesource of that content might be
inspiring or getting used byother content creators to
monetize.
So you demonetize my channelfor cussing, but the white
creator that takes my same video, that plays it in the
background, gets monetized.
It's driving views.

(22:58):
So it's OK for them, becauseyou can run a bunch of Starbucks
ads next to the millions oftimes they're cursing.
It doesn't matter.
But for me the company says noand you don't want that.
So that's how you get theCharlie D'Amelio's and the
Addison Rae's, and to no faultof their own.
Yeah, because they didn't doanything wrong, because that's
the thing about TikTok I say allthe time it's like you do the
challenge, I do the challenge,you do the dance.

(23:19):
There's nothing wrong with anyof that.
The exploitive side is that tothe brands it behooves a
platform like TikTok to havefamous white creators because
you can sell more advertising.
Unfortunately, I sell this allthe time.
Things built by white peopleare perceived to be for all

(23:39):
people.
Things built by black peopleare perceived to be just for
black people.
So as many times as I've gone oninterviews and said fan bases
we're in 190 countries andterritories on ios and android
everybody say, oh, you made asocial media platform for black
creators.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yeah, no, I just I mean, that is the perception.
When I ask people about fanbase, they're like oh, that's,
it's like a, it's the blacksocial media platform, right,
which is not true.
It's not true, it's.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
It's just a social media platform and I happen to
be black.
That's a way that they try tomarginalize that.
Now, with advertising, whatwe're realizing, what I started
to realize, too, is well, wait aminute, why is someone that is
very, very famous, that mighthave 100 million followers, not
reaching those many people?

(24:24):
I started looking at thatquestion, like like, this is
weird.
And people start complaininglike yo, why am I?
I get no views.
Like, and it doesn't make sensebecause if I follow, if my
intention is to follow a person,yeah then I intend to see
everything that they post yesthat is my intention.
So instagram and facebook knowthat.
So they're saying, well, well,wait a minute.

(24:45):
Now.
Social media angels, peoplewith like 10 million followers.
Now people got a hundredmillion, 200 million, 300
million.
Rock has 390.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
Rock is the perfect example.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
He has 390 million followers.
Yeah, that's four Superbowls.
Yeah, 24 hours a day, sevendays a week.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
And you're right when you look at one of his videos.
I mean he has a lot of views.
Oh, it might be 21 million, butit's not as many in comparison.
It's not 390 million.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Because a one-minute Super Bowl commercial is $7
million.
So the Rock could be making $28million just by posting one
piece of content on hisInstagram page if he was going
to reach 300 million people, or400 million people, because now
he's a television network.
Once video becomes part ofsocial media, every single

(25:33):
person is a channel.
Yeah, so I just started lookingat the big blocks.
You know, okay, every Instagramor Tik TOK profiles a channel.
That person programs thatchannel with content and then
advertisers run, run ads on thatnetwork and they make money and

(25:54):
the user gets a cut of that.
But imagine, now that we're inthe video on demand area, that
if it was subscription based sonow I'm like, I'm starting to
run the numbers, like, well,wait a minute, if, like, 5% of
the people that follow the Rock,just 5% of those people that
follow him, subscribe to him,he'd make.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Like 1.6 billion a year.
I was going to say, even ifthey only paid two or three
bucks, five bucks he'd make abill.
He'd be a billion a year.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Yeah, and then I was like, oh, that's where this is
going.
Nothing's going to stop thatfrom happening.
Yeah, as we say, have thisconversation right now.
So social media platforms aredoing their best to stall that
process and war that off,because I'm the one screaming at
the top of the hills Like whatare you doing?
Like why are you over here whenyou could do that?

(26:40):
And what they?
And what I can only imagine isthat, um, the time that they've
spent to understand that humansare very, um, we follow patterns
.
Once we're locked intosomething, we stick, and it's
hard to break that.

Speaker 4 (26:58):
It's like breaking a habit.
That's what I was about to say.
Like as back to your dopaminepoint, like it's hard to break
the habit of people get so muchdopamine from Instagram, even
though you said they're notmaking no bread, right?
It doesn't make sense.
Yeah, but they just like ah,just you know, somebody walked

(27:18):
up on me and said they love myInstagram and that's enough for
a lot of people and they don'twant to lose that.
And they don't want to losethat by going somewhere else and
it's like oh, I don't, you'renot here anymore.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
But Somebody walks up to them and say, yo, that shit
you posted was dope, or they'rehappy.
Well, they think.
But it's also been a way thatadvertisers and brands utilize
creators to advertise theirproducts.
Influencers.
Yeah.
So influence again is theinfluence over spokesmanship.
Spokesmanship is dead.
You can no longer say hi, I'mBob Sobody and I tell you to go
use X, y, z, nah.
But if you happen to be makinga piece of content and you might

(27:58):
pop some candy in your mouthand they're like what is that?
You're eating, or you're alwayswearing this certain piece of
clothing, I'm like what is that?
Because you're famous andyou're rich.
So if you're doing that, itmust be good.
That must be good.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
So what is that?

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah.
So influencer marketing becamethe thing where it's like, okay,
we influence people to buythings as opposed to I'm the
person, Cause now everybody'sthat's like a club flyer.
We just see that you're paid todo that a mile away.
We know that that's notauthentic.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
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Speaker 4 (28:54):
Let me ask a question .
Why do you think I don't knowif I've asked you this before
why do you think Twitch hasbecome the place?
A lot of the influence goeslike Academics, obviously, and
Kai and those guys are there andthey're on the other platforms,
but they focus so much onTwitch.
Why do you think Twitch is theone that they focus on?
I think because a couple ofreasons.

(29:14):
They focus so much on twitch.
Why do you think twitch is thethe one that they focus on, I
think because a couple ofreasons.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
First and foremost, it was tied to gaming.
So young people play videogames, yeah, and gaming was
almost considered like unseriousor juvenile yeah, like you're
in the basement of your mother'shouse.

Speaker 4 (29:31):
You'll be nothing, you know.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
You eat pizza and then e-sports and gaming became
popular to the point that peopleare millionaires off this shit.
Now it's a real business andit's funny, because I would have
never thought in a millionyears that of all the mediums of
entertainment, that gamingwould be the one that would

(29:54):
surpass all of them.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
but I would have never thought that either but
there's something.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
But, but I tell you there's a.
There's that.
The reason why, in hindsight,is that there's an inter.
There's two types ofinteractions that you don't get
with any other form of media,particularly one.
It's not competitive either.
Either when you're playingcomputer, you're challenging

(30:20):
yourself, or you're challenginganother person.
Yeah right, so there's.
So there's a competitive nature.
So you don't get that frommusic, you don't get that from
tv, you don't get that frommovies, right, and then it's
also you don't know a lot oftimes what the outcome is.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
You don't know who's going to win?

Speaker 2 (30:38):
who's going to lose?

Speaker 1 (30:39):
And it's the ultimate interactive.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
I mean you're actually in it, You're doing it,
you're part of it, you'reimmersed in it, and so that's
what makes it kind of like verypowerful and popular.
So I think that becamesomething that Kai and all that.
And then those platformsstarted paying, so they had
subscriptions before anybody.
So I said the originalsubscription pioneers were the

(31:04):
sex workers, so cam girls theystarted.
The next level were the gamers,and then the podcasters started
getting into it.
Yep, and even to this pointright now, there are podcasters
and gamers and sex workers thatare making far more money than
musicians and actors, yeah, andthey just flew right by them.

(31:25):
And my point is, the actors andmusicians are still doing the
same old things.
I couldn't be, I could not bethe same age as Kai Sinat and
say Kai, what are you about todo?
I'm about to go stream for thenext month and make $800,000.
What are you about to go do?
Oh, I'm about to go do asomebody.
Go to the studio, record a song, get in the car, drive from
city to city, make 10 bands here, 10 bands there, 10 bands there

(31:49):
.
Go sit down with a bunch ofradio promoters, pay them.
Go do a club walkthrough.
Maybe I get shot at.
Fly to New York, talk about mydeal.
I would be like what am I doing?
It's a lot of work.
Meanwhile and this proves mypoint Meanwhile some girl's

(32:11):
about to go home, set up acamera, pull her titties out,
people about to subscribe to seeit.
But another girl's about to go,pack her bag, go to a strip
club, stand there till four inthe morning, have smoke all
around her, be in a violent grabon her in a comfortable
environment and make a tenth ofthe money.
So that's what I mean People.
When people are locked into abehavior, they stay with it.
They stay with it.

(32:32):
Yeah, because when I sawOnlyFans I was like OnlyFans is
about to kill the strip clubindustry.
It's over with.
I just thought it was overbecause I know women that have
gone from the strip club toOnlyFans, from making, you know,
tens of thousands of dollars tomillions.
I have a friend of mine she's amillionaire that used to strip
way in Atlanta.

(32:52):
Georgia called Follies and shewent from Follies to fame or
OnlyFans and a comfort of herown home.
Yeah, and it has built, hasbuilt other like managing other
creators.
It has a creator house andlives in Miami, and I mean now
she's everywhere.
Yeah, you know she so.
So the content creation spacehas evolved and, like I said

(33:15):
before, nothing is going to stopit.
So these platforms arerecognizing.
We were talking about views andstuff like that.
They were like well, wait aminute, we have a problem here.
If we show everybody the Rock'scontent, coca-cola is going to
come and pay the Rock to sitthat can of Coke in his video
and pay him and we'll never makea dime on ads.

(33:37):
So what we have to do is crushthe Rock's visibility and force
the advertisers to come to us.
Yeah, you think you're going tobe able to work with the Rock.
Try it.
His video will get five views.
Give us our money and run ourads.
So that's where contentsuppression and shadow banning
became a thing that they deniedexisted.
But no, it's real.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
It and shadow banning became a thing that they denied
existed.
But no, it's real, it reallywas happening.
So do you think it's the sametrend as I mean?
If you think about TV, thefuture of TV, the future of I
shouldn't even call it TV thefuture of programming?
It's going the same route,right, Because everybody had
cable and it was a big thing Iremember, even in my household
to switch from cable to's say,cut the cord, to cut the cord.
It sounds like it should be aneasy thing to do, but

(34:18):
everybody's just familiar,Everybody's easy, Everybody just
likes to be able to go to thesechannels.
And now we have all thesestreaming services.
But it is kind of weird becausewe're all moving away from a
consolidated networking systemto all these streaming services.
And then there's a part of younow that's like, ah God, maybe
it would be easier to go back tothat.
No, but think about it.

(34:38):
You have Netflix, Now you'resubscribing to all of these
different things.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
So here's where this is.
What I started talking aboutwith Fanbase is that it's going
even smaller.
So I'll use three words orthree phrases broadcast media.
So I'll use three words orthree phrases broadcast media.
So broadcast media were largecable networks with hundreds of
channels, with thousands ofshows.

(35:03):
Yes.
And it was massivelyunprofitable for the, for the,
for the studios.
So old TV used to be, let meball up 20 or 15 shows, throw it
against the wall and see whatsticks pilots, you know, friends
, and Seinfeld, and dah dah, dah, dah, dah.
And then it gets canceled andwe spent money and it's not

(35:24):
working.
And dah dah, dah dah, okay,cool.
And so that worked for a while.
But then people say, well, Iwant to watch this show when I
want to watch it, yeah, and Iwant to watch this specific show
with cursing or with, you know,a little bit more hardcore,
whatever, violence, whatever itis, comedy or whatever.

(35:44):
And so we moved to the narrowcasting era where we subscribe
to apps that have hundreds ofshows now.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Like a Netflix or something.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
So now the networks and we've gotten broadcast and
narrowcast.
The next level down and this iswhere the young people are
going to take over, and theyalready have is no, I want to
subscribe to Kaisanat Becausehe's providing the entertainment
.
This is something that, like Isaid, when you think about TV or
music, it's really justattention.

(36:16):
If you're advertising, all youneed to do is to garner
someone's attention for a longenough time to run them an ad.
It doesn't matter if I spend$300 million to shoot a season
of Loki, or someone like ReeseAtissa sits in her car and makes
this content on her phone.
I've got your eyeballs, that'sall I need.
It doesn't matter what you'relooking at, as long as you're

(36:37):
looking at the screen, and inbetween that I can throw you an
ad.
So younger people aresacrificing the big screen for a
mobile screen that's smaller,that can move around with them,
that is also sending themcontent.
And I was just saying this tomy friends earlier today.
I was like I live my life as ifI'm a Gen Z person.

(37:01):
I'm 49.
I live like I'm Gen Z, so Ifind it extremely uncomfortable
or hard to watch a movie.
Now I can't watch movies.

Speaker 4 (37:12):
Yeah, I watched Bad Boys 4 on Netflix, but I waited.
First of all, I waited fornetflix.
Like we always talk to somebodyabout this the other day, the
whole, you know, yo, fridaynight, bad boys for us, I'm
gonna take the whole family thepopcorn.
I think that's just kind ofdead.
Yeah, I'll be like I mean, somepeople still do it, I guess,
but like I'm like, oh, bad boysfor us, come on, I'll wait till

(37:33):
come on netflix.
Yeah, and that's exactly what Idid and I watched it the other
night.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Are you watching it on a big screen?
I watch it on my laptop.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
I watch everything on my laptop.
The only thing I watch on a bigscreen is sports.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
I watch everything on my laptop and that's if I turn
the TV on and he over at thehouse and I turn it on.
We watch that Because he'llwatch some shit, because really
this doesn't, this doesn't need.
Your eyes don't need to bestimulated more than your ears.
If I can put on a pair ofheadphones and get Dolby 5 sound
and watch the Avengers on this,I'm good.

(38:06):
The auditory part is the partthat's more engaging.
It's stimulating your senses,your eyes.
We're looking at a twodimensional screen.
Nothing changes.
It's stimulating your senses,your eyes.
We're looking at atwo-dimensional screen.
Nothing changes from here.
It's just the size.
I'm still seeing the same thing.
I might have to have a littlebigger phone or a laptop, but it
doesn't change.
If I can hear that and reallysound good, that doesn't change
anything.
So what I'm realizing is socialmedia is now no longer pictures

(38:28):
and comments and tweets.
It's literal TV.
Social media is now television.
So instead of hitting a remote,you're swiping.
So tiktok is just channelsurfing, yeah so so it's like
and so those pieces of content?
So the cool thing about whereI'm again when I'm, when I just
break things down as simple as Ican break them down, I'm like

(38:51):
oh so, wait a minute.
So Disney Plus and Netflix andHulu are screwed because they
produce the content and thencharge for the content, and they
are producing high qualitycontent, like again a season of
Loki, both seasons of Lokitogether $300 million for season

(39:12):
one and season two.
Yeah, all right.
So you know how many subscribeAt $14.99 a month, how much you
got to subscribe?
I got subscribers, you got tohave a ton just to pay for Loki.
Yeah.
So they're not making any money.
So I'm like, well, wait aminute.
Hmm, if I'm fan base and I'mjust a distributor, you guys are
the ones that shoot, producethe content.

(39:33):
I give you a cut of the revenueof the profits.
Then I'm good, that's a recordcompany bond.
I don't pay for the productionof any of the content.
You produce the content, youmake the lion's share of the
revenue and you call the shots.
If you put a TV show on HBO,they're going to hire the
showrunner, they're going to ownthe show, they're going to tell
you what you can and cannot doand they're going to make most

(39:55):
of the money.
So now I've decentralizedtelevision, because you're
telling me that in fan base wehave six functionalities, so six
ways that you produce contentwhich is posting with your
photos and videos, stories whichare like short videos, live
flicks, which are just likeshort form videos, like reels

(40:18):
and tiktoks, audio chat rooms,so audio conversations.
And then we have fan base plus,which is like our version of
youtube or netflix, so you couldpost a podcast, a tv show, a
movie, put it behind a paywalland charge for it.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
So if you had, if somebody came walking in and
they had a 10 part hour longseries and they wanted to call
the shots, they could literallyload it up on fanbase pro plus
plus, plus and run it like it'sa netflix and put it behind
again.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
Put it behind the paywall.
People get charged to see it.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah and you think that's the future.
Yeah, the future is notnecessarily Disney Plus all of
these other places, it's theindividual creator.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
So I can answer that question easily for you anybody.
Do you have Netflix?
Yeah, how much do you pay forit?

Speaker 1 (41:09):
What do I pay?
$14, $15?

Speaker 2 (41:11):
You have the HD 4K version.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
You have the HD 4K version.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
I don't know If you have the 4K version.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
See, there's my other problem.
I don't know, it just getscharged to me.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
But if you have the 4K version, you're probably
paying $24.99 a month.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Maybe I am, I don't know Okay.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
So you're paying $24.99 a month, all right.
How many shows do you watch onNetflix?
I mean, in what amount of time?
I don't just all the totalshows that you watch.
Probably, I don't know 10, 12,okay, how many?
How many shows are on netflix?
A lot, thousands, thousands.
So you're paying 24.99 a monthto really pay for 10 000 shows

(41:45):
and only watch 10 yep, which isback to the original tv model
right.
So my point is well then, if Ireally like, I don't know um
snowfall, and why can't I justmake snowfall and pay 3.99 a
month for every episode ofsnowfall and then watch it on my
phone or watch it on my laptopor streaming?

(42:07):
On my tv through fanbase.
Yeah so now?
And it opens up.
And it opens up a brand newuniverse, right?
Because now every single person, production, company, anything
on earth is now a network.
Yeah.
So that means you're atelevision network, tyler
Perry's a network, drewski's anetwork.

(42:30):
But guess who's a network now?
Domino's is a network.
Krispy Kreme is a network.
Domino's is a network, krispyKreme is a network.
Mercedes Benz is a networkbecause now they can produce
content and people can, becausemy reason to be counting it fan
base is everyone is a fan ofsomething and everyone has a fan
base.
So I know people that are hugefans of Louis Vuitton and I know

(42:54):
people that would pay $9.99 amonth to be able to get
exclusive content created byLouis Vuitton that shows the
details of all the products thatthey sell the fashion shows.
The fashion shows.
They might call in someone likePharrell and sit down with them
and let them talk about thewhole line in depth.
Yeah.
Right, and really produce thatcontent and charge $10.99.

(43:15):
And here's the caveat, a perkGuess what you can do now?
And you can buy it beforeanybody else can, and you can
own it before anybody.

Speaker 4 (43:22):
Yeah, maybe get a discount or something like that.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
I always said that I was like I want fan base to kill
the sneakers app.
I asked any sneaker head wouldyou pay $4.99 a month or $9.99 a
month to always get your shoes?
Yeah, because Nike's trash.
Yeah, like $9.99 a month.
So while we're right here,let's play a game, right?
So how much is a pair of AirForce?

Speaker 4 (43:45):
Ones.
They used to be for roundnumber.
They're about $100.
They might be a little more now.
They're like $135.
Let's say $150.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah, so let's say a pair of Air Force Ones is $150,
right?
So let's say a pair of AirForce Ones every week, so times
four, that's $600 a month.
Times 12 for a whole year,that's $7,200 times for 20 years

(44:14):
, that's only $144,000.
All right, cool.
So now let's do some other math.
Let's go to Nike and look atthe and how many people, how
many subscribers are you I'msorry, Followers Nike has.
So Nike has 303 millionfollowers.
Okay.
All right.
So let's take 5% of thosepeople, that's 15 million people
, right, of the 303, 303 milliona little the 303 million A

(44:37):
little 15 million.
So 15 million peoplesubscribing to Nike for $9.99 a
month.
They're going to get half therevenue.
Times $5 a month right, it's alot.
That's 75 million a month.
Wait, I did that wrong, buttimes 12.

(44:58):
Yeah, that's $900 million ayear.
So Nike could give away If Itold you that a bunch of stuff
for life.
Yeah.
Or I'm subscribed to MercedesBenz, but every week they give
away a g-wagon you're never, notsubscribing you're staying
forever it would be worth theirside yeah, yeah.

(45:18):
So everybody's on the futureperks and subscriptions and all
these things are going to bebuilt into ever into life.
Because content creation is notgoing to be the draw because
I've been diving into ai so muchfor the last three weeks.
It's not going to be the drawbecause I've been diving into AI
so much for the last threeweeks.
It's not going to be.
Even what we're doing right nowis going to be able to be done

(45:38):
by computers in the near future,to the point where you'll be
able to take your consciousnessand create.
You know, you'll be able to saytake everything that I take,
every email, every post, everytweet, everything that I've ever
said, load it up and now be meand respond as I would respond

(46:03):
with the same emojis, with thesame, like you know, exclamation
points, and capitalize thesewords.
Not only that, let me clone myvoice and then you can say it
Now I'm going to serve you a it.
Now I'm going to serve you asubject, and then I'm going to
serve you a subject to talkabout, and then you're going to
talk about that subject in thesame way that I would say it, in
the same vernacular tone that Iwould, and I'm just going to
leave that up and monetize thatall day long.

(46:23):
So what's going to matter iswhat do I get out in the real
world from this?
What outside is going to matterway more than inside.
Yeah.
You know, and that's the thingabout it, I've been diving,
which is why, if you look at, ifyou look at content creation,
now, the only things that reallypeople are really pay attention
to are sports, because youdon't know.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
It's the last thing that we have, that you don't
know the outcome.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Yeah.
Or the award shows yeah, or thedebates yeah.
So of the year when there's apresidential season of the top
100, most programs 98 of themare football games.
I mean college football andprofessional football.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
And then one of them is a debate.
One of them is the Oscars andthat's it.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
It's like Oscars, Grammys, the debate.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
Yeah, it's all live shows.
They're live things.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Things that you don't know what he's going to do when
John Cena comes on his show, orKevin Hart.
So that's why I say reality andhence why networks are scaling
back on that.
That's why you know theBachelorette and the Voice and
on Netflix.
They love his blinds becauseyou don't know what's going to
happen.
The balloon you don't knowwhat's going to happen and also
what's interesting about that.

Speaker 4 (47:33):
The other phenomenon with, like those shows uh, the
lovers blinds and the bachelors,they spawn now a huge industry
because there's all these peoplethat comment on them.
Yes, it's like the show comeson and it's like, okay, now go
to this person and they're gonnareview the show with comments
about it, and it's a wholeindustry of like you go about it
and it's a whole industry oflike you go on TikTok, it's a

(47:54):
whole industry of bachelorreviews or lovers blind reviews.
So it's people making bread offthese shows that are not
employed by the network at all.
They're in the crib.
They're in the bedroom.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
I've never watched love is blind, but apparently
some black dude got was engagedin the see I have no idea what
you're talking about, but it'slike they're invested in that.

Speaker 4 (48:16):
Those are basically the new soap operas.
Right, but they're real.
Yeah, nobody's writing thescript, but their soap opera is
what General Hospital used to be20 years ago, where he was like
, oh shit, he's cheating on herwith her that's now Lovers Blind
or Bachelorette or whatever.
It's why Survivor has lasted solong.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
And big brother, yes, because big brother always
fascinated me, because that's 247, I mean you, I mean it's a
show, but then you can go on allthe websites and watch it 24 7
and it's real life.
Yeah, oh man.
We could go a lot of differentdirections here, but I want to
get to a completely differentsubject cool, I want to dive
into now.
Fan base is growing.
Fan base is getting bigger, butyou're doing something
interesting and I think you'reone of the leaders in this space

(48:57):
.
I don't know whether to callthis equity crowdfunding or, as
our friend from last week, JohnPrice called it community round
where you're letting people nowinvest in in the future of fan
base.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
How's that going for you?

Speaker 2 (49:11):
We've done really well.
We wouldn't be in the positionthat we are without equity
crowdfunding, and so this isgoing to tie into something
political, because I had I washaving a conversation on fan
base and the conversation wasabout you know, I think Barack
Obama was one of thoseconversations, and sometimes in

(49:33):
our community people say, well,what did Barack Obama do for the
black community?
And sometimes we look at, welook for things that are
specifically for our community,but what we don't understand is
that typically they are everyeverything is for our community
now in their deficits.
So you go, everybody can gowalk into a bank and attempt to
get a loan.

(49:53):
Doesn't mean you're going toget the loan.
Everybody can attempt to go tryto buy a house Doesn't mean
they're going to let you buy thehouse.
So what equity crowdfunding didwas it was a law called the
JOBS Act that Congress passedand Barack Obama signed into law
.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
We heard a lot about the JOBS Act on our episode.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Right.
So the jobs act wiped out theaccredited investor role.
So who that benefits more thananybody are people like me that
that I'm a black founder and outof all the venture dollars that
have been given in the past twoyears, black founders have
received less than half of 1% ofall those dollars.
So the labels are not investingin the black startups or the

(50:37):
black businesses and the banksaren't loaning us money.
So for me to be able to go tomy community or people that find
value and interest in what I'mdoing and invest, that's
invaluable, because now I have away in.
And that's very dangerous,because now Instagram, these
platforms, are going to be like,oh, like, he's got the ability
to raise capital and he knowswhat he's doing, they know what,

(51:01):
they know how to build product.
Yeah.
He has culture on his side,because we can only move with
the speed in which we copyculture.
He moves at the speed ofculture.
I'm in Atlanta, georgia.
So whatever the phrase is,whatever the phrase is, whatever
the song is, we're going tohear it first, we're going to
make it.
If it's Lemon Pepper Wings, Ialready knew about them 10 years
ago, 12 years ago, and noweverybody talks about Lemon

(51:22):
Pepper Wings, swag surfing.

Speaker 4 (51:23):
Yeah, swag surf.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
You know, mcdonald's, sprite, just things that people
talk about, right, so they'rebehind.
So the infrastructure and theculture are in one space, and so
equity crowdfunding gives methe advantage of being able to
scale my business and do that.
So we did three rounds of Rexyof crowdfunding and I raised $10

(51:48):
million in three rounds forFanbase, which is incredible.
I'm the first black person toraise $10 million in Rexy of
crowdfunding ever.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Well, now I would take it even further.
You might be one of the firstpeople period Black white.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
No people, no people.
Equity crowdfunding people areraising.
Well, there, it's the way thatthey raise money.
There's different ways to,there's different levels.
So, there's the reg CF space,but if you're talking about the
CF space, yeah, the CF space,yeah, I've done pretty well and
done it in a way that's very,very unique, because I never
spent money to promote my raises.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Now tell me more, because every time I talk to any
of these, the biggest thing toraise money is you have to put
money into it to raise money.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
You have to spend $200,000 to raise a million.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
Yeah, so how are you doing this without?

Speaker 2 (52:26):
So relationships All right.
I've always been a relationshipperson and so prime example is
this podcast is happening nowbecause I know Jeff and Jeff
knows you and then you knew Hilland then I worked with Hill and
Hill was able to come on theInvestor's Throne and became a
fan based investor.
So I've always had the beliefthat I always tell everybody

(52:49):
that I have a phrase be carefulhow you climb the tree of
success.
I say tell everybody that Ihave a phrase be careful how you
climb the tree of success.
I say the branches that youbreak on the way up are not
there to catch you if you fall.
So if you're an asshole makingit to the top, if you slip,
there's nobody to say can I havea job, can I have somewhere to
stay?
Can I borrow some money Like nobye?
You're at the bottom, fly rightdown, yeah.

(53:10):
All the way down to the bottomand so through equity
crowdfunding, um, I know people,so the cost to get on or I
don't even know if there's acost but the, the, the stature
that you have to have to appearon the breakfast club.
You got to be pretty famous.
But I know charlamagne andwe're cool and he, he liked what

(53:31):
I was doing.
It was like yo, you're a blackbiz.
We need to highlight you.
Yeah.
And when he did that, my firstraise went viral and it created
that first wave of of dollarsinto fan base.
Or me getting on clubhouse whenthere were 4,000 users and then
calling all of my friendstelling Jeff and Dina, marto and
Hannah King and all thesepeople to bring all these people
to Clubhouse.
And then they bring theirfriends and I bring I invited

(53:54):
Charlamagne and Killer, mike andSnoop Dogg and then they come
on the platform and then Fadiagets on the platform and then
then Meesee gets on it and then21st Saturday, before you know
it, clubhouse blows up.
So it's that, it's that networkeffect and that's the ability
to, you know, reach massiveamounts of people through the
relationships that you have.
So I've always been arelationship person.

(54:14):
I don't.
I want to be able to be able topick up the phone and call
whoever and say, yo, can youconnect me with someone?
So, yeah, here's his number.
Yeah, I'm the same way like, oh, you need this.
Yeah, here, let me hook you upwith this guy.
Y'all do what you need to do.
I think it's, you know, popularto do that.
That's just because you'resowing seeds, because you never
know, like the interesting thingthat I think that's phenomenal
and great about life is thatpeople have like there's so many

(54:36):
chapters to your life as aperson.
I would have not.
You know the things that whatI'm doing right now I would have
never told you I was going todo 10 years ago.
Yeah.
Not even, not even seven yearsago.
I'm like, I'm not gonna be atech founder.
What talking about?

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Yeah, and here you are.
This is what you are now.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying and it changes.
And my point is who knows whatI'll be doing another seven
years from now?
Yeah, I could be fan base couldblow up, I could exit and be
like well, what does Ike do?
Well, now he owns the Hawks,now he's a sports owner, sports
team owner, I hope you do ownthe.
I want to buy them.
I said.
I want to buy the Hawks I'm allfor it and make it the Lakers

(55:13):
of the South.
Yes, I want Showtime.
I want the seats filled withall the movie stars that are
here filming movies.
I want to make sure we go getAnthony Edwards back to the A
and I want to do all that, but Igot to build my billion-dollar
empire first.
But equity crowdfunding againis the gateway that does it.
Um, but equity crowdfundingagain is the, is the is the

(55:33):
gateway that does it.
It wipes out that accreditedinvestor role and and also,
what's more important about thatis and again, I'm just.
I'm always.
I'm very transparent aboutthings that I see in my
community and a lot of myfriends do get gamble.
But I noticed that when I seethese commercials that advertise
gambling, I don't see a lot ofwhite people advertising the
gambling commercials.
I see Kevin Hart, I see LeBronJames, I see Jamie Foxx, I see

(55:55):
Drewski.
So I see DraftKings, I seePrizePix.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
I haven't thought of it.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
I see, mgm, I'm like well, where are the tons of
white people telling people togo out and gamble?
So if you're telling people togamble, you're not necessarily
advertising.
If all the people advertisinggambling sites are black, then
how come they're not commercialstelling you to invest, to take
that same money?
To the point that I actuallysaid this on Fanbase.
I went and chatted to GPT andasked and I said what has better

(56:21):
odds gambling in Vegas, sportsbetting, playing the lottery or
investing in a social media app?
And Chad Giviti says well,investing in a social media
startup, you have better oddsbecause you're investing in
technology.
You know the future.
You you know sports andgambling has been on luck.

(56:41):
It's not any of that.
And also and so there's aparticipatory part of this where
you can actually, you know, bepart of the outcome of of what
it is.
So if I'm a famous celebrity, Ican invest in fan.
I could put a hundred thousanddollars in the fan base and then
join the platform and make it abillion dollar company in two
weeks.
And we all could do thatcollectively, even the guy that
the app just went viral likelast week just off one guy

(57:02):
making a video, we got a number24 on the app store charts for
social media just off, twovideos that change it.
So the virality of that, so theability that equity
crowdfunding provides us to fundour businesses.
And then and I keep saying thisall the time, I'm just going to
be honest, cause I know they'regoing to make this illegal one
day I'm just telling you there'sno way that they're going to,
there's no way in the future.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
They're going to make crowdfunding.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
No, they're going to make.
They're going to make investingin.
How would they do that?
Because what gives a socialmedia platform its value?
The people, the people.
Yeah.
So you're telling me that inthe future they're going to say
oh well, here's a startup here,cardi B, here Kai Sinat you can

(57:45):
invest in it.
Then go on Twitter and telleverybody to move over there.
And now your platform is wortha billion dollars overnight and
then you can sell it.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
That's a good point, you just do it over and over
again.
Yeah, get every app, raise somemoney sell it.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
They're like no, that's pumping dumps.
You know what I'm saying?
Because I can't control thevalue of a soft drink company by
just drinking it, but I cancontrol the value of the social
media platform by using it,Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (58:15):
They're going to move where you move?
Like with Clubhouse, it justbecame, especially during that
time.
It was pandemic as well, soeverybody was sitting around and
it just became a huge thing.
Everybody just went over there.
Stars.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
What happened to Clubhouse?

Speaker 4 (58:28):
It's still there.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Remember it did?

Speaker 2 (58:31):
It skyrocketed and then just plummeted well, a
couple things that that I I wasthere and then I left.
First thing was they segregatedthe app.
So in the midst of this, fouryears ago, we were in the midst
of this very tense time withbiden and trump and covid yeah
and so there was.

(58:52):
The rooms were very, very.
Clubhouse was a veryinteresting place because you
could be a fly on the wall ofany conversation in the world.
I could go in a room and hearpeople talk about politics or
have people talking aboutreligion or whatever, and I
remember at one point some userscame on the platform that were
saying anti-semitic things andscooter braun had to be on the

(59:13):
platform and he posted a tweetis clubhouse anti-semitic?
and the clubhouse was trendingfor all the wrong reasons yeah
and the next thing you know, theapp changed and said well, now
you're only going to see roomsfrom people that you follow yeah
, which you can see right,because I could have easily
recorded, yeah, all this crazystuff and put it out there.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Right, and people did .

Speaker 2 (59:33):
It did, but it eliminates the beauty of social
audio.
Yeah, absolutely it's beingable to just tap in and see
what's going on.
Yeah.
What other people think,Because I was part of
conversations that were aboutTrump and I would go in there
with Trump supporters and havevery, very candid conversations,
but they wouldn't be tense.
I can disagree with you.
We wouldn't be cussing eachother out X, Y, Z.

(59:53):
So it became an echo chamber.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
It did, but there's too many people who tried to
take it and do the wrong thingswith it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
But my point is that is what you have to deal with as
a startup.
You got to go through thosetough times and figure it out.
You don't put everybody intheir perspective.
Corners.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Which is what they did.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
They did and then the next thing they did is the
platform got to a million users.
From the time I got on inAugust to January, it went from
4,000 users to a million users,man, it skyrocketed Right
Everybody was talking aboutclubs.

Speaker 4 (01:00:20):
It was an exclusive club when it first came on.
Yeah, because you had to beinvited in.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Yeah, it was like oh, people were selling invites for
real money.
I got in only because of Lupe.
Lupe Fiasco was very early on,got me in and I was a fly on the
wall.
I was constantly just listeningto weird conversations.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
So there were rumblings that the app was about
to raise a round and the firstmillion users were like hey, we
helped blow this thing up.
Can we invest, can we be partof this round?
And Clubhouse apparently saidno.
They went and raised $100million at a billion-dollar

(01:01:02):
valuation.
And then I turned to my CTO andsaid we're going to build audio
in the fan base.
And we built it in two monthsBecause and again this goes back
to the point of people beinglocked in I well, this is going
to be easy, I'll just build it,and then they can own this one
and they'll move over there.
Yeah, that didn't happen becausepeople were already they were,
they were locked in yeah, usedto using once you get once you

(01:01:24):
get used once you're intosomething it's hard to break
people out of it.
to this day that a lot of thepeople that have left con the
clubhouse what remains islargely black audience that keep
that platform relevant rightnow to this day.
Yeah, so you know, I mean, andI think at some point the the
energy will shift and every apphas that moment, that viral

(01:01:49):
moment, to be in the positionwhere it's there to assume the
throne, like, honestly, rightnow, you know we're having this
conversation.
I wake up last night at likethree in the morning and I'm
like, and I'm just again, I'm aGen Z-er, so in my mind.
So I pick up my phone and say,well, what's going on in the
world?
And I heard, I saw about LiamPayne, but at the very, very top
of Twitter trending was bluesky.
But at the very, very top ofTwitter trending was blue sky.

(01:02:12):
And if you know what blue skyis, blue sky is like the Twitter
alternative and I was like, whyis blue sky?
It was number one on Twitter.
And why was it?
Because Twitter announced thatthey were changing X, was
announcing the way that theywere changing the blocking
functionality.
And now on X, when you blocksomeone, they'll still be able
to see your content, but youwon't be able to engage with

(01:02:33):
them.
And everybody says, well, I'mmoving to blue sky.
And if you probably go on, if Igo on X right now and look at
what's trending on X blue skymaybe a couple hours ago blue
sky was trending at number threeon X.
So if I'm going to go lookagain and see where we are right
now and trending and look who'snumber four Blue sky, blue sky.

(01:02:54):
Look who's number four LooseGuy.

Speaker 4 (01:02:54):
So they're benefiting from I mean, they're probably
getting millions of users rightnow from their competitor from
apps plus people hate Elon Musknow too, so there's going to be
a backlash to that too well, Igot three.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Man, we could be talking forever here, but I got
three more things I want to getto.
One of them is going to be that, but let's go back to investing
.
So I think it's interesting.
You have a lot of investors whohave invested in Fanbase.
Are you allowed to say, like,what are the numbers, like how
many people have invested andwhat's the average investment?

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
We probably have over 16,000 investors 16,000 people.
The average investment size is$1,000.
16,000 people.
The average investment size is$1,000.
The minimum to invest is $399.
Or you can take the whole roundin a reg A.
So we're raising $17 millionand we're at 2.9 million.
Okay, so I almost said 3million of the 17 million, but

(01:03:46):
when I do the math again I tryto break things down that are
digestible.
We're at the point right nowthat we need to raise $14
million.
So if I say, if I go to mycalculator, which I always use,
you have your calculator up alot.
That's it 23,500 peopleinvesting $600.
Now, remember there's 48million people that are just

(01:04:08):
black people that live in theUnited States alone.
Yeah, so just to the blackcommunity out there, all I need
is 23,500 people period in theUnited States of America out of
400 million people.
What number is that?

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
That's 14 million 14 million.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
That's all I need.
That's all you need 23,500people.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
So how does?
Okay.
So let's say you invest inFanbase.
What's the future Like?
When will, how?
Is that person who's invested athousand bucks how are how?
How is that investment going toturn into something for them?

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
So let me, so let me explain seed investing.
There is not a person that hasever invested in seed investment
rounds which are round before acompany goes public, pre IPO or
acquisition that that doesn'tsee a return on their investment
until a liquidity event.
Yes, so liquidity event is whena company gets acquired, it
goes public or emerges withanother company.

(01:04:56):
Yes, so that can be.
That can be anywhere from twoyears to 10 years.
But the upside is that you'regetting in on a potentially
lucrative business in the very,very sweet spot that you weren't
even allowed to get in.
So, if you're investing in fanbase now, you're investing in

(01:05:16):
the same spot that you weren'teven allowed to get in.
So if you're investing, in fanbase.
Now you're investing in the samespot that people invested in
Instagram and Tik TOK andSnapchat way before.
So, way before.
So when, those, so when, when,when Instagram was around and
getting raising money in 2010,you're investing in fan base
Like it was Instagram 2010.
Now Instagram is, at that time,instagram.
I think they raised half amillion dollars at the time when
they, when they started, it wascalled bourbon and they got

(01:05:37):
venture dollars.
But now.
Instagram sold for a billiondollars like two years later,
and then now Instagram is a $200billion company.
So, and at some point Facebookwent public.
So you're thinking about okay,if I invest now?
You're talking about, okay, ifI invest now, you're talking
about a 2500 x return, a 5000 xreturn, mind you, in in, in

(01:05:57):
retail investing a win is like12.
Yeah, you put a dollarsomething, get a dollar 12 back,
you won yeah so you're not.
So that's not even.
That's 12, not, not, not fivethousand percent.
Yeah, you're talking about 12%.
Yeah, so that's why I alwaystalk about Orrin Michaels, which
is the guy that invested inUber.

(01:06:19):
He put five grand into Uber asa rich person already, because
he was allowed to, because youand I weren't.
Yeah.
And that 5,000 turned into $24million in nine years.
That's amazing.
But number one, he had thecapital, he had the five grand
to do that.
Two, he was the only onelegally allowed to do it.
But now imagine you and 10 ofyour friends can put 500 into a

(01:06:45):
tech startup and then, nineyears from now, it turns into
2.4 million dollars.
2.5 million dollars.
That's the reason why I'mlooking at it, that perspective.
So so yeah, the minimuminvestment is is 399 and we're
valued at 160 million dollars.
Now we've gone through fourdifferent valuations 20 million,
um, 50 million, 85 and now 160million dollar valuation.

(01:07:05):
But I believe that fan basejust just a positioning of what
where media is and the abilityfor every user to monetize their
account on the planet I thinkfanbase easily is a hundred
billion dollar company, justjust based off content
monetization on.
We're not even getting if Iwant to run advertising or I
want to do other things likee-commerce or things down the
road just off people monetizingtheir content around the planet.

(01:07:26):
It's already there and and theupside to that is that there are
8 billion people on the planet.
I think 6 billion people havesmartphones.
Let's just put that on the map.
There's 6 billion people.
I always do the math, I'malways mathing.
There's only like 240 millionpeople that have Netflix on the

(01:07:48):
planet.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
So there's a lot of room for growth.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
There's only like 650 million people that have music
streaming services.
All the music streamingservices combined, there's only
650 million people that havethem out of like billions of
people on the planet.
So the potential upside forpeople to initially stream music
or subscribe to people that'swhy I say people subscribing to
people is going to be biggerthan Netflix ever could be.
Because you only subscribe toNetflix once.
I can subscribe to five people10 people if I want to, and wind

(01:08:17):
up paying the same price that Iwould for Netflix to watch 10
shows out of 1,000 that I don't.
But I can pay the same price towatch the 10 shows that I want
and they're all different andthere might be perks involved
and I might be able to gettickets to the show or I'll be
able to buy this product.
So that's the logic behind it.
I hope it sounds genius whenpeople are listening to this.
I hope so too.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
I hope so too.
I'm an investor.
I can't wait for 10 years fromnow, when this thing's worth
billions and billions of dollars.
That's right.
That's right, all right.
Last thing I got to ask youabout because I've seen this in
the news a lot yeah, we're in avery hot political season.
I am curious about this becauseI've seen you speaking all over

(01:08:55):
the place about the rights ofmusic use, especially in these
political campaigns.
I just assume novice, yeah, Ican play anything anywhere, but
that's not true.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
Well, yes and no.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
Tell me more about what's going on with you, and
and this whole music debate, sogreat debate.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
So we have a.
We have a situation with trump.
I can talk about some of thesethings I can talk about, but
mainly with the trump thing Ijust said.
Basically, trump was playing uh, a song that my father wrote in
1966 and we terminated thatsong and got the publishing back
in 2022 called hold on, I'mcoming by salmon day.

(01:09:37):
It was his exit song.
He always played every time heleft okay so typically how this
works with venues a nightclub,an arena, a stadium they do a
deal with a pro performingrights organization like bmi,
askAC, and they pay per averageof what they think the
attendance is and they pay acheck and they have the right to
play anything under the sun forthat.

(01:09:58):
There's a special caveat forpolitical campaigns, because
they are agenda-based andideologies and stuff that
artists might not want to beinvolved in.
So there's something called apolitical use license that you
have to apply for and once youpay for that license, you have
the right to play the music.
The same way.
The only issue is that if aperson decides that they don't
want you using their music asongwriter or an artist they can

(01:10:21):
ask, they can send a letter toBMI and say take my music out
and have this person stop doingthat.
So that's for politicalcandidates.
So in this particular situationwith Trump and myself, Trump
had used the song and rightafter we just got the rights
back and I had asked him to stopusing it, like, posted a couple
tweets and we sent a cease anddesist.

(01:10:42):
But the political use licensething came into play when he
just like okay, he kept playingthe song yeah so I had to hire
an attorney.
We hired an attorney, wediscovered that he had played
the song 100 and I don't know150 plus times maybe, and so he
and there's a good portion ofthe time that he was playing it
before he got his license andthen, after he was served notice

(01:11:02):
, to stop playing the song.
So to any artists out there, ifyou don't want politicians using
your music, you can head out,hit up your PROs or your
publishers, because yourpublishers are not necessarily
going to speak on your behalfbecause they want to remain
neutral.
The difference and the benefitfor us is that I own the
publishing or my family owns thepublishing to my father's music
, so we can make those decisionsthat sometimes an artist like

(01:11:24):
Celine Dion can't, from my heart, will go on, because James
Horner wrote that and whoeverowns the publishing on that has
the right to say that he canplay that or not.
They can honor Celine Dion'swishes, which they probably did
because she's an icon, buttechnically they don't have to.
So that's the reason why it'ssuch a touchy subject, and so
when you're seeing Donald Trumpplay all these opera songs and
stuff on the stage that he wasdoing the other day he just ran

(01:11:45):
out of music.
Everybody's told him they don'twant him playing this music,
and now he's just grasping forstraws because there's nothing
else left to play did he?

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
did he stop playing?
Yes, he did?

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
we got it.
We got it.
Uh, we filed for a temporaryinjunction.
We won that, which is very.
I mean, I don't know law, but Iguess injunctions are hard to
get.
So if my turn is like you know,you won like.
This is unheard of.
We're the first person toactually do this in the era of
music and a lot of artists arefollowing suit and saying
they're going to sue Jack White.
He's filed a lawsuit.
Other people are coming forwardsaying they're going to sue
Donald Trump.
I'm happy to set a precedentfor artists and songwriters,

(01:12:17):
because that's my generationaltrauma, which is why I'm even
here, which comes full circle towhy I even made Fanbase,
because my father lost therights to his music a year
before I was born.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
How did he lose the rights?

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
He had to file for bankruptcy, and so they actually
acquired his writer shares inthe bankruptcy and then
subsequently sold him withouthis knowledge to other people
about nine years later in aprivate auction that he never
knew about before sampling evenbecame a thing.
So imagine these people buy hiswriter shares.
So I've always grown up in themusic industry and in business

(01:12:53):
saying I only want to be a partof building things that people
can't steal from me.
So I never did a publishingdeal the entire time I was in
the music business and it costme, I think it, I think it.
It cost me a lot of opportunitybecause there were
opportunities that I could havebeen on a larger product.
but I said I'm not selling mypublishing, but the irony is
that that very same publishingthat I have was the one I could
dip back into to borrow money tobuild fan base, and then now

(01:13:16):
it's the same thing aboutfighting for creators rights and
ownership of your content, andso that's what's so full circle.
Like I want to build a businessthat that people can't steal
from.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
It can't happen.
What happened?
Do you have the publishingrights back now?

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
To most of the songwriting catalog we still
have.
So we have two more phases.
Phase one is songwriter IsaacHayes, Phase two is artist Isaac
Hayes and phase three is allthe rappers that have sampled
his music over the last 30 years, 35 years, that phase, and
that's the last phase that we'llterminate those rights and then
we'll have all that publishingback.

Speaker 4 (01:13:50):
You got to be prepared, though, when it does
come back, to know what to dowith it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
Yeah, yeah or even to know to do it, because if you
missed the window, yourpublishers aren't going to tell
you, they're just going to keepit.
Yeah.
That's what?
Keep it.
And I tell you, and then youlose, and then you lose the
opportunity to get it backforever.
Wow, we've already filed ourfirst badge of term.
I mean, now we've gone throughthe first rodeo, so now we've
got two more.
Yeah, and it's lucrativebecause those songs make, like

(01:14:17):
we were just saying, likeQueen's catalog sold for a
billion dollars.
Yeah.
It's incredible.
That's a lot of money.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
It's incredible yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
And you're talking about the selling of it, but
that's also the rights to it.
So every time I watch a moviethat has something that your
father did is yeah, it's amazing, yeah, it's, but that's
ownership is so important, yeah,and so I think we're getting in
the air right now, withtechnology, where you're allowed
to own yourself, it's going tobe so much more important
because people are able toduplicate those things now
duplicate images of myself or mydad or queen, or recreate
freddie mercury's voice yeah, sowhoever owns that intellectual
property is going to be able tomonetize that in perpetuity,

(01:14:53):
mm-hmm.
So that's why owning is justowning your stuff is so much
more important.

Speaker 1 (01:14:58):
It's so much important.
Yeah, and thus fan base.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
Kind of went full circle there, Jeff yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:15:04):
Yep 360.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
360.
I feel like we could sit hereday, but we probably can't you
got to work, you got to get thisthing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
You got things to do, man.
I have something to do in aboutseven minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Seven minutes, but, hey, this has been great, thank
you.
Thank you for your time.
We're here live.

Speaker 4 (01:15:17):
We were trying to do this for a long time too, so I'm
glad we finally got it done andwe got to come here in Atlanta.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
Live At Fanbase.

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
At Fanbase.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
This is Isaac Hayes III.

Speaker 4 (01:15:35):
I'm Jeffrey Sledge and I'm Tom Frank.
Thank you, I did it for him Allright, folks.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
That's our show.
Tune in to Unglossy, the codingbrand and culture on Apple
Podcasts, spotify or YouTube,and follow us on Instagram at
unglossy pod to join theconversation.
Until next time, I'm Tom Frank.
I'm Jeffrey sledge Smicky, thatwas good.

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Isaac Hayes III: Reshaping the Digital Content Landscape

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