September 5, 2024 • 39 mins
Join us (minus Mickey) as we navigate through technical mishaps and laugh-out-loud moments with our special guests, Eric and Jeff Rosenthal from It's The Real. From their kitchen table in Westchester County to collaborations with hip-hop legends, their journey is a testament to passion and perseverance. These brothers bring authenticity and humor, sharing their evolution from comedic sketch creators to serious documentarians.
Rewind to 2007: imagine producing weekly sketches on YouTube from a cramped kitchen, driven by a distant love for hip-hop. We'll take you through those early days, where financial struggles and odd jobs couldn't dampen the Rosenthal brothers' creative spirit. Highlighting a pivotal moment when Bun B reached out, we'll show how one opportunity can open doors to collaborations with industry giants like Cam'ron, Max B, and the Clipse. Their story underscores the importance of leveraging the internet to bypass traditional gatekeepers in the entertainment industry.
We also explore the meticulous, multi-year process behind their latest project, The Blog Era. Learn how the pandemic transformed their storytelling approach, propelling them from weekly content creators to long-term documentarians. Discover the significance of a giant bulletin board filled with clues and how Mickey's narrative became central to uncovering the intricate layers of the music industry. As we discuss potential future projects, get ready for an episode that celebrates the art of long-form storytelling, authenticity, and the transformative power of blogs in hip-hop culture.
"Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture," is produced and distributed by Merrick Creative and hosted by Merrick Chief Creative Officer, Tom Frank, hip hop artist and founder of Pendulum Ink, Mickey Factz, and music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to hear this thought-provoking discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @UnglossyPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://unglossypod.buzzsprout.com/.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week on Unglossy .
Speaker 2 (00:01):
This was way before I know we're going to sound like
old heads here, but this is waybefore YouTube partnerships.
This is way before you knowsponsorships.
This was straight out of ourpockets.
We have to pay rent, so we'retaking, like you know, whatever
Dumb jobs, Whatever temp jobs.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Yeah, I was a magician's assistant.
Yeah Off of yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, off of uh craigslist yeah,
listen guys, you got to paythat rent right, yeah, from the
top.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, I'm tom frank, I'm mickey fax and I'm jeffrey
sledge welcome to unglossydeconing brand and culture.
I'm tom frank, partner and chiefcreative officer at merit
creative.
This is mickey fax, hip-hopartist and founder and ceo of
pendulum inc.
And that is is Jeffrey Sledge,a seasoned music industry
veteran who has worked with someof the biggest artists in the
(00:49):
business.
We're here to explore themoments of vulnerability,
pivotal decisions and creativesparks that fuel the
relationship between brand andculture.
Get ready for athought-provoking journey into
the heart and soul of brandingthe unscripted, unfiltered and
truly unglossy truth.
All right, folks, we're backfor another episode.
The unscripted, unfiltered andtruly unglossy truth.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
And I'll just start with this I'll let you tell the
story.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I'll let you tell the story, but to me it's either
your computer battery or it'sMickey's car battery.
But nothing ever goes smoothhere.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
I made sure I was like I cannot have any glitches
with my computer.
So I charged my shit up, likebecause I actually didn't charge
last night, but I charged myshit up this morning.
I was ready to go, but Mickeyleft his hazard lights on for
some reason last night and hiscar is battery died?
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Who leaves their hazard?
Speaker 4 (01:50):
lights on.
I don't know, I don't know andI didn't know I actually didn't
know the hazard lights couldkill your car, because I thought
that actually went to like aseparate thing.
I didn't know, it was on a carbattery.
But anyway, his car is dead.
He was going to get a jump.
The people said they were goingto come at like 1040, but then
they couldn't come to like closeto 12.
(02:12):
And he has to go.
He has a performance and he'sparticipating in InvestFest,
which is a big conference thisweekend here in Atlanta, and so
he couldn't make it.
And, of course, his name wasbrought up a thousand times on
this podcast.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I mean the show must go on.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
The show got to go on because these guys are also
very hard to catch.
They're very hard to catch, soif we don't try to postpone it
because we postponed it oncealready, they're busy guys, you
know.
So that's why I was like we gotit.
We got to go Cause we don'tknow when it'll happen again.
It'll be, it'll be.
We'll be wearing coats nexttime it happens again, you know.
I mean, it's a good show, I wasimpressed.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I was impressed for me scheduling these two guys and
then, little do I know that youknow them extremely well,
Mickey knows them extremely well.
Well, and these guys areawesome.
We had Eric and Jeff Rosenthal.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
If people listening don't know it's.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
The Real, then you're going to learn all about it
because it's the real deal.
I love these guys.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
I love them and that's why I wanted to do it
anyway, because my relationshipwith them is so tight.
I knew I could carry it even ifMickey wasn't here, because of
my relationship with the guys.
Um, you know, mr Mickey, and Iknow he, he's mad, sad, as we
say that he couldn't make it,but, um, it's a great show we
took.
We cover the blog error, wecover their podcast.
(03:35):
Uh, we tell stories some funny.
Um, it was just a great, greatepisode.
It's a great episode.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
It was a good episode .
I laughed.
I laughed a lot at this one,yeah, and we could have talked
to these guys for probablyanother four or five hours
Easily.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Easily.
There's a lot of stuff I didn'teven bring up because we didn't
have the time, but yeah, it wasa great episode.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I mean with that, I think we just dive right in.
Sorry Mickey, let I mean withthat, I think we just dive right
in Sorry Mickey, let's go,we'll catch you next show.
But here we go with Eric andJeff Rosenthal.
Unglossy is brought to you byMerrick Creative, looking to
skyrocket your business'svisibility and drive growth.
At Merrick Creative, we solveyour brand and marketing woes
With big ideas, decades ofexperience and innovative
(04:20):
solutions.
We'll draw in your targetaudience and keep them hooked.
Remember, creativity is key tosuccess.
Partner with Merit Creative andunlock your brand's potential.
Learn more at meritcreativecom.
And now back to the show.
Today we got not one, but wegot two guests that apparently
we all know.
They are the creative mindsbehind it's the Real.
(04:43):
These brothers from Harrison,new York, have made a name for
themselves in the entertainmentindustry with their sharp humor
and deep passion for music andculture.
Starting with weekly sketchesin 2007, they quickly gained
attention for their humorous andinsightful takes on the hip-hop
scene.
Their podcast, a Waste of Timewith it's the Real, featured
candid conversations with someof the biggest names in
entertainment.
(05:03):
Most recently, eric and Jefflaunched the blog era.
Very good, and we're going toget into that.
A deep dive into thetransformative period of hip hop
industry, exploring how therise of blogs changed the music
industry forever.
Despite their success, theyremain grounded and authentic,
always pushing the boundaries ofcomedy and entertainment.
Let's dive in to the uniquejourney and the impact of it's
(05:25):
the real.
Please welcome eric and jeffrosenthal, hey hey, good to be
here.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Thanks for having us guys wait.
How often do y'all beinterviewed, uh?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
here and there.
Yeah, you know I.
I think that like podcasting islike a wild thing where it's
like everyone who's got a mic isnow like interviewing.
So it that's exactly who we are.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah, yeah, we're people with a mic.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
But, like, but it is this thing where it's just like,
you know, we could be on oneside of the interview spectrum,
we could also be on the other.
So it's all good, it's just aconversation and, like, this is
an easy conversation for usbecause, like you guys are, just
you know, like this whole thingis going to be a lot of fun.
We're ready for it and uh,it'll just be back and forth and
we're we're excited to be herewait one more.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
One more question is that the same apartment?
It looks no, yeah, no, that's adifferent apartment and I was
this is a different apartmentthan you were here yeah yeah
yeah, so jeff was on our uhpodcast.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
A waste of time with it's the real.
When you were talking about bignames, jeff Sledge is one of
those big names.
That's right, yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Jeff came over to our last apartment where we sat at
our kitchen table in our kitchen, which was like you could stand
there and reach both of yourarms out and touch both the
walls right out and touch boththe walls Right.
So, uh, we are grateful thatJeff would sit there with us for
, you know, two hours in ourkitchen and have, honestly, a
(06:50):
conversation that still carrieson to this day Like there's
clips that you'll see go virallike every other week that Jeff
is a part of, and it's just it.
that's such a blessing and we'rereally, really grateful for
that.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
So thank you, jeff blessing, and we're really
really grateful for that.
So thank you, yeah.
Yeah, that was a.
That was a fun time, that was agreat podcast.
I had a good time on that day,had a good time, but anyway,
let's move forward, becausetom's feeling left out I mean,
no, I, you know, every day Ilearn more about the mysterious.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
But hey, I want to.
I want to start.
I want to start from the earlydays, because I'm amazed by you
guys, like I mean, how did this?
You know, we all look at youtoday and we're like, oh, these
guys always had it.
It was easy, they've done itall.
But I'm sure it wasn't Like howdid you even get into this?
How did it start?
Did you just always know thisis the path you were taking?
No, did you go off on otherpaths and end up here Life.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Life is not a straight line, right, so we're
originally from WestchesterCounty 914, 914.
Which is about 30 minutes northof New York and just actually a
town over from where Jeff grewup.
And you know, we were outsiders, right, we were guys who loved
hip hop.
We listened to Hot 97.
We read XXL Magazine, wewatched BET, but, like, hip hop
(08:03):
was at a remove.
It was like an arm's lengthaway, right, we would never,
ever meet our musical heroes,right, or the people behind the
scenes who made these, thesemachines go.
So we were just fans.
We, we love this thing fromafar.
Um, you know, we, we grew uplistening to uh, bad boy and
rough riders and Rockefeller,and that was who we were.
(08:25):
But again, we're two whiteJewish kids from 30 Minutes
outside of New York who lovethis thing.
So I thought I was going to be afeature film writer and
director.
Jeff thought he was going towrite for magazines.
You take those tools and youdevelop some things on your own
and we were making fun littlesketches with our friends.
(08:47):
And then when we tried to makethat into a TV show and knock
down people's doors and itdidn't sell, we were like, why
not do it ourselves?
So that's where, at the adventof YouTube and Vimeo, we were
like, let's treat this like areal thing, put ourselves sort
of in a position to include ourvoice, and in August of 2007,
(09:11):
the two of us started puttingout weekly sketches that we did
for the next three and a halfyears, yeah, and, like you know,
we would do it every singleMonday.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
And it became this thing where and it's probably
because like there wasn't thatmuch stuff on the internet at
that point, but like we weredoing original content at a time
when nobody else was, and soyou know, we got people like the
Clips or Max B or Cameron orwhoever else.
(09:41):
I mean like everybody wouldjust come over to our apartment
and and shoot videos with us and, um, and those went very viral
but the thing was this was waybefore.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I know we're gonna sound like old heads here, but
this is way before youtubepartnerships.
This is way before you knowsponsorships.
This was straight out of ourpockets.
We have to pay rent so we'retaking, like you know, dumb jobs
, whatever temp jobs yeah, I wasa magician's assistant off of
uh yeah yeah, off of uhcraigslist, yeah listen guys,
(10:12):
you gotta pay that rent rightyeah and when you, when you
couldn't pay for subway fare,you gotta walk right.
When you can't, you know, haveevery meal, you skip meals,
right.
But if you love something, ifyou really want to like earn
your way in you, you make thosesacrifices and that's that's
what we did.
Now, jeff was there when Bun Bcalled us and wanted to be in
(10:34):
one of our sketches.
That's when we first met Jeff,right.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
How, how did?
How did you jump though from Imean that's a huge jump from
doing the videos with yourbuddies to Bun B calling you
Totally?
How does that even?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
happen.
So that is the blogs, right.
So we come from a world inwhich there's traditional
gatekeepers, right, you want tohave a TV show, you've got to go
through certain levels andcertain steps up the ladder to
get there.
But we weren't.
You know, we came along at atime where it was like you know
what?
We want to go directly to thepeople that make the decisions.
(11:06):
So we would email those people,right, we would get those
meetings.
But for people to understandthat that's a different story.
So that's why we had to do aproof of concept.
That's why we used YouTube,that's why we put out these
videos.
Bun, who throughout our careerhas been such an advocate for us
and such a great partner for us, and his co-sign.
(11:29):
As all of us here know, if Bunndoes something, the rest of the
industry is going to payattention and follow, because
Bunn is always early.
Yeah, talking to ThedaSandiford, you know her passing
along our number.
Bun calling us at 8 o'clock ona random Wednesday morning and
(11:49):
saying I want to be a part ofone of these sketches.
That is the reason why you knowCameron and Max B and Nick
Cannon and the Clips andeverybody else.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah, all these people were then on the show,
but yeah, bun was the first andthat was like early on.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, it does.
But, like you know, again, likejeff was saying, we were doing
something different, right, ifwe were doing the same thing as
everyone else online, then it'slike, well, why would I want to
do that, right?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
yeah, correct so, like you know, this is before
twitter, this is before, likepeople were able to, rappers
were seen through their musicprimarily, and so we were the
maybe first ones who were like,hey, like we've an outlet where
rappers can be funny, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
And you came on at a time where right YouTube was
just starting to.
Really people really didn'tknow what they were doing, so
you got on the scene kind ofearly, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Correct, and so there's that.
But there's also the platformthat matters, right?
So YouTube, you know, was notthis place where people would go
and spend their whole days justgoing through videos.
You had to go to a websitewhere you had somebody who
curated this stuff, websitewhere you had somebody who
(13:07):
curated this stuff.
So, luckily, there were a bunchof websites called blogs, which
were places where differentpeople and you didn't have to
know them in real life, theycould exist in any city around
the world where they chose whatrap songs they wanted to put on
their websites, what artiststhey wanted to promote, and then
, by the time we came around,what content they wanted to
shine a light on, the time wecame around, what content they
wanted to shine a light on.
And so, because we were doingvideos with Bun, with Cam, with
(13:31):
the clips, whoever it was thosecut through, they were different
, they were available and,thankfully to people like SK
from Now Right or Miss Info fromMissInfo TVtv, or two dope boys
or whoever it was, we were thenright next to, you know, the,
the new jay-z song that dropped,the new naz song that dropped,
(13:53):
the new ludicrous song that,like you know, was being teased
like that mattered and all of asudden, those outsiders, the two
of us, were suddenly seen assomething maybe bigger than the
reality was.
So by the time that we're goingto like actual events downtown,
uptown, in Brooklyn, whereverit was people would see us and
(14:13):
be like I know you from theinternet.
You're actually real.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Like this.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
This is crazy, and that's.
That's how sort of, like youknow, our reputation grew.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Yeah, yeah, blogs, blogs.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Well, that leads me into and I know we're jumping
all around here but the blog era.
Then I didn't know the like, soI've listened to the blog era.
I think it's absolutelyfantastic.
I got introduced to the firsttime I met you guys.
I didn't know how deep thoughthis went with you.
I mean, in theory, this is yourown story as much as it is
every story of that era.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Correct, yeah, so yeah, I think that it's recent
history.
Right, we're talking.
2007 is the starting point,let's say the blog era.
Its peak, let's say it sort oflike trails off after 2012.
A lot of people can look backand be like, oh well, why would
I want to hear something about atime that was so recent?
(15:07):
You know, like Kendrick J Cole,drake, they're all of the blog
era.
They're still at the top of thechart, so why would I want to
look at something or listen tosomething?
With that context, we were ableto create a project that gave it
(15:30):
a perspective that was waybigger and maybe way more
interesting than people gave itcredit for.
Because a lot of people look,they're like hip hop with the
golden era that's what I thinkof hip hop or like let's go back
to, like the early 80s and likethe mid 80s and like that's the
hip hop that I can look at inperspective and with context and
see that.
And we were like, well, let'stalk about this very important
transitional time where allthese major artists came out of
(15:52):
and you're right, we're also ofthat time like we ran around
with Wale and Wiz Khalifa andCurrency back then.
Right, like you know New YorkCity, the Lower East Side, that
was a breeding ground for abrand new type of creator, and
so we are absolutely a part ofthat.
But our story, you're right isright there, with the Peter
(16:14):
Rosenbergs, with the internetcelebrities.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Jay.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Smooth, like all these guys who would break
through in different ways onMSNBC or in the New York Times
Deezus and Merrow.
Those guys are all ourcontemporaries.
We've all gained something bybeing on the blogs and, you know
, the blog era is very importantto us and when it came to
(16:41):
looking at it, I think that wewanted to not put ourselves at
the center of the story becausewe wanted to, you know, take
people through it but at thesame time, include ourselves,
because we did make a mark andbecause our work does last, and
we wanted to show that outsidevoices, even if we were just 30
minutes up the road, thoseoutside voices could become
(17:06):
insiders, could be in the circus, understand this thing, speak
the language, and I think we'revery grateful that the project
came out, included so manyvoices and lives on, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I mean it's amazing.
It's amazing how many voiceswere involved and it's funny you
say it doesn't seem like it'sthat long ago, but in terms of
just where technology is, thingsare promoted, it does feel like
a long time ago that welistened to like blogs.
Were that that focus?
Because it's changed so rapidly, like it's, it's right.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
I mean it's completely different today than
it was just 10 years yeah, and Ithink that's like one of the uh
things that we wanted to dealwith.
Right, like, this is a storythat people always talk about
the blog era, especially like onum, on Twitter, or just like
you know, there's people of acertain nature like, oh, like
that was, that was my time, youknow.
(18:00):
But, yeah, there's so fewpeople who understand why any of
the things happened the waythey did.
Um, they didn't, they didn'tunderstand the process, they
didn't understand the characterswho were involved, and so, like
that's sort of the the worldthat we were dealing with, you
know yeah, it was.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
It was that the time was interesting.
I mean you had to.
I mean, for me I was.
The blogs were the first thingI looked at in the morning when
I got to the office, like youkind of go through to see if
anything anybody put anythingout as a new video or a sketch,
a new sketch or new skit orwhatever.
It wasn't even just about themusic per se, but it was about
that, that culture and that howthat culture was moving.
(18:40):
It kind of you know andthinking about it, it kind of
you know.
In the early 80s I guess, youhad the collision of, uh, punk
and obviously early hip hop andfashion.
You know where Madonna came outof and Basquiat came out of and
you know that those people youknow, keith Haring and you know
(19:03):
and obviously all the rappersyou know, and they were all
going downtown.
Same thing, fat Pie, freddy,they were going downtown and
they were connecting in theseart galleries and dance interior
and these clubs and stuff, andthis was the same thing.
But I don't think anybodyrealized what was happening.
People were going, like yousaid, lower East Side.
It was fashion guys in there,obviously it was hip-hop guys in
(19:24):
there, it was journalists inthere, there were big-time
photographers, and we would allbe in these spaces, spaces just
kind of hanging out and not evenknowing what's coming next.
We didn't know what the fuckwas coming next, we didn't know
we could make it a career, wedidn't know if it would be here
next week even, but it was justsomething that we loved and we
all kind of connected to it.
Like I said, from big peoplelike Cuddy, who was, you know,
(19:52):
working at Bape and became thisinternational superstar, you
guys, just all these people justkind of hanging out, people
working at 10 Deep and peopleworking at Supreme and people
working at BBC, and it'sinteresting to see where it's
grown to.
And I'm glad you guys did theblog everything because it
needed to be documented, becauseit was almost like this big
movement.
To me it was as big a movementas like the late 60s, you know,
(20:17):
with their thing and rock androll and you know hate, hate,
asperger and all that stuff and,like I said, then the early 80s
, when you know madonna and allthat kind of thing and this was
this is exactly the same thingand a lot of the people who are
the trendsetters and thetastemakers of today come from
that.
You know the next.
Let me just say this one thing.
The next thing I and I don'tknow if there's enough footage I
want somebody to do a historyon fashion um in the 2000s,
(20:43):
because that was the same thingwhere, asap rocking, you go
downtown below houston, rightbelow house on a Saturday and it
would be so many kids it wouldbe just kids all over the street
comparing fashion and hangingout and Virgil and all these
people I want somebody to kindof I hope somebody has enough
footage to kind of do that.
But back to you guys.
(21:04):
I'm glad you guys were able totalk to me.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
There's your next project right there, so that was
an idea, by the way.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Because if you went, down on the Saturday it was real
?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Yeah, there was supposed to be.
That's one of the things thatwe were going to include in the
blog era podcast.
And then we were like, oh,maybe that's like a second
season.
But we felt like the story offashion, it would have the same
sort of up and down trajectoryas the, as the first season.
(21:33):
And so we're like we don't, wedon't want to just replicate it,
but it is.
And also, somebody should tellthat story.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
It's an incredible, incredible story.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Yeah, we.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
I spoke to Scott from 10 deep about his story and
it's just like somebody shouldhelp him tell that it's a very
dynamic and interesting epicstory, yeah, but in terms of the
story that we ended up tellingfor the Blog Era podcast, it is
(22:06):
the story that is about musicand technology coming together.
There is that intersection andthat does matter.
But, like the, the reallydeeper stories are about race
and class and the American dream, both realized and snatched
away.
Because these are things thatalways come around.
There's always this wheel,right when it's like, you have
(22:28):
the people who are thegatekeepers, then you have the
people who disrupt thingsgatekeepers, then you have the
people who disrupt things.
Then eventually and this alwayshappens the disruptors become
the new gatekeepers.
Yep, and, and the wheelcontinues.
But what makes the blog areainteresting is, by the time,
that odd future comes around andthey can't get the attention of
the bloggers, they, they shootout.
(22:50):
You know, beyond the cycle.
Right, they're like off becausethey, they could just
distribute everything themselves, they could get the word out on
social media, they can godirectly.
They don't need a middlemananymore.
They didn't need them to godirectly to their fans.
Yeah, and so, because it'sthrown off and you have a sound
cloud, you know, coming out andyou have, like all these other
opportunities to get aroundtraditional gatekeepers, all of
(23:13):
a sudden, the, the playing fieldis just spread all the way out,
and so that's what makes thisthing interesting.
Where it's like, oh, you can'thave like the buildings, take
back control, but all of asudden they can't get control of
what these kids are doing,right, they're trying to keep up
what's up.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Okay.
So what?
The was it the wag, the wag thedog.
It reversed around.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
The tail was wagging the dog, absolutely so I want to
know more about the productionof this, right?
I mean, this was a massiveproject.
This didn't happen overnight,right?
If I remember correctly, thiswas like a three year three year
project right or maybe more.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yeah, so it started in 2020, during the pandemic.
So we were inside.
We had no idea what was goingon.
Like you guys remember, likethere were times when it was
like, and it's hard to believenow, right Now, that we've sort
of come out the other side.
It is very hard to believe thatthere was a time, like, where
(24:13):
we didn't know how this thingwas moving.
We didn't know, like we we havea third brother.
We would not let him come intoour home right, he's still mad
about that, by the way becausewe were just like I don't know
who you're around, like I don'tknow how you're gonna spread
this band?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
he's like nobody yeah and so he's like I just want to
use your laundry room.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
We're like no, yeah, so so what happened was we were
like jeff.
Jeff wanted to tell a story wehad done.
We had done a, a weekly podcastfor five years, right, the same
one that that jeff was on, thesame one that, like every, ross
and cardi b was on, right, yeah,but like we couldn't then
invite strangers over to ourapartment in in good faith,
(24:48):
right, like we didn't know if wewould spread something, they
would spread something.
You can't.
You have an airborne disease.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
It's probably not great to have an artist the
Migos and their 30 people comeover.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
So what that meant for us was let's try to tackle
storytelling in a different way.
Now I just want to say, ifpeople are listening and they're
like, wait, how did the guys dosketches and then end up in
this place, where they're takenseriously as like documentarians
, it is.
It is this thing where it'slike look, we have the tools,
we're just using them in adifferent way, cause we're the
(25:19):
same guys.
We've always been.
It's the real.
We've always been like openly,like these funny guys who are
good storytellers, whether inour, our sketches, our music,
our, uh, like absurdistinterviews with people like
Stevie wonder or, uh, thetelevision show that we wrote
that was not made, unfortunately, but all these things the same
(25:41):
thing that that ties all thesethings together is that we're
we're talented storytellers.
So this was just storytellingin a different fashion, which is
what Jeff wanted to do.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah, and I mean like .
So what happened was that RickRoss's team had reached out to
us to do an anniversary episodeof Teflon Don and so we did an
oral history based off.
We were like, oh, we know a lotof people who were involved in
that album.
We talked to probably like 10people and we put it out and
like it was just a, it was sowe'd been doing weekly content
(26:12):
for so long and then, during thetop of the pandemic, we were
doing daily content and to dothis thing that was more focused
on like a long-term, like itwas.
It was edited, it was produced,it was, um, thought out as
opposed to like a casualconversation or, uh, you know,
uh, an interview talking aboutsomebody's life.
We were just like, oh, this isso different and it flexes
(26:35):
different muscles, and when wewe took a break for a week to
like figure out our next move,because we've been doing daily
podcasting for three months yeah.
And we were just exhausted.
We were like, oh, we need abreak to to just figure shit out
.
Um, and then, day one, wethought, oh, like, let's tell
(26:56):
the story let's tell the storyof the blog and we also.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
We wanted to be the ones to tell it because we lived
it yeah right, we didn't wantlike an outsider, like, and
that's why it worked honestly Imean you're so integrated as
part of it that that's to me themagic of it.
Well, so we have the access.
Because of that, right, like we, we can and we can make the
phone calls and that's what wedid.
So this was a process.
We were like, oh, this willtake two months and we'll, we'll
put it out on the same feed asa waste of time and we'll, you
(27:21):
know, just continue this thingwhen all of this, like you know,
settles out.
But it just kept going and itgot deeper and deeper.
You know, we call Jeff becauseJeff's our friend, right, but
there were things in there whereJeff was just like, oh, how
about this thing?
And it would send us in a newdirection where we hadn't even
thought of that before.
Like, could this story havejust been very surface level?
(27:43):
For sure.
But Jeff is like, hey, by theway, you know, here's my
experience with you know, here'smy experience with you, know
the end of jive and like whatbattery was and how mickey fax
settles into this thing.
And then you take it a stepfurther and then you talk to
mickey about his experience,right, but like everyone knows
mickey fax from you know certainsongs that he had, certain
(28:07):
magazine covers he had.
But the deeper you get into it,you learn about his parents,
you learn about his parents, youlearn about his high school,
you learn about all these thingsand that becomes a story, or
you?
You think of things in new ways.
We spoke to 150 people.
We had 500 hours of brand newrecordings, um to.
And then you know what?
Uh, we had a Patreon, and therewere our most hardcore fans
(28:32):
contributed to us and allowed usto have this extended break
away from regular content.
No one knew what we were doing.
We didn't put our business outthere.
Of the 150 people that we spoketo on the record, no one
spoiled this.
No one tweeted out, said whatwe were up to and that allowed
(28:54):
us this space to, to work onthis thing for, like you said,
three years.
And we didn't, honestly, wedidn't think about business.
You know, we weren't like, forthe first two years, we we
weren't like, oh, who's gonnaput this out there?
How much money we're gonna?
It wasn't that, it was justlet's concentrate on the art
again.
We had, you know, patreon,patreon and our people were
letting us do this and they wereon the inside, so they
(29:20):
understood.
You know what we were workingon, how we were doing, giving
them regular updates and allthat stuff, and it did take
three years.
In the third year, that is whenwe started having conversations
being like, well you know, isthis an Amazon project?
Is this a Spotify project?
Is this a Warner music project?
And it wasn't any of those.
(29:40):
We ended up partnering withPharrell um, and that made sense
on a number of levels,including the fact that he's the
godfather to this whole scene.
You don't get a drake or akendrick or a j cole or a wale
or wiz khalifa or any of thesepeople, without pharrell going
(30:00):
out there and being hisauthentic self, his boundary
pushing self, and so to have himas a partner in this was
extremely important to us, andthey were a first time podcast
company.
Other times.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
They were brand new at that point.
Brand new, yeah, brand new.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yeah, and and and but it.
It really was very meaningfulto us to do something with him
and for him to be a greatpartner with us in presenting
this project.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Yeah, shouts to everybody over at Other Tone.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Yeah, before we move forward, I feel like we're
skipping past the podcast.
We talked about it.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
We did.
We're going to get back to that.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
We're going to get back to that Okay, Because it
meant a lot more.
It was way deeper than justlike oh, we did a little podcast
, so I don't want to skip pastthat.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
But we'll get back to it.
Okay, we will get back to that.
I want to ask two morequestions, though, because the
thing about Pharrell was I wasworking with him at that time
too, and that's when I ended uprunning into you guys.
It was like amazing Cause.
I was like wait a minute, thisis the thing I heard about a
(31:09):
year ago.
And here it is live and it'sout there in the world right now
, and it is fascinating and it'sfunny how the pandemic really
started this, because in a lotof ways, I'm sitting here today
because of the pandemic.
I mean, during the pandemic iswhen we rolled out the Lupe and
Roy show and we got really deepinto that and I really started
to understand how deep thisculture goes.
(31:30):
I was like you guys, I was afan, but I didn't know any of
these guys.
I had no experience, and once Istarted to get into that, you
realize this goes really deep,and the connection and how many
people and how people areconnected is fascinating to me.
And that's what really amazedme about what you guys did was
every episode became a storyupon itself and it was
(31:51):
fascinating and I kept learningand it really connected the dots
for me because I was like, wow,I had no idea this guy was
involved with this, thatconnected to this, which
connected to that, and it wasamazing, thank, you.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
So I'll tell you what three years allowed us to do.
We obviously lived together, weworked together.
We had a giant six foot by fourfoot bulletin board and we just
kept staring at this thing forthree years.
We kept organizing.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
It looked like a crime scene with all the red
yeah it honestly did.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
It looked like you know a very messy thing that we
could understand.
You know, it's like thosepeople who, like their clothes,
are all over the room but theyknow exactly where everything is
.
That that's us.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
But it's also like because it's a little bit like a
2001 space odyssey, but it'salso like like this monolith
from like planet of the apes.
Eric and I would just bestaring at this thing like just
like you know, basking in, likethe the power, trying to figure
it out for, like I don't know,hours at a time.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
But because of that, and the long walks that we would
take and the the conversationsthat we would have, we were able
to figure this thing out andconnect dots that maybe, like
you, would not have known, maybesomeone else who was like
running a blog would not haveknown, but also, like that we,
as observers and participants in, could never have known.
(33:15):
So we're grateful for takingthe time and really, like, not
following some sort of likearbitrary deadline, not just,
you know, uh, settling we, wenever settled.
You know, we kept digging anddigging and we found answers
that were extremely meaningfuland if you listen to the project
, um, stand up yeah, I mean likewe were trying to answer very
(33:38):
big questions, you know, like,why did this thing happen?
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Why is it no longer here?
And you know none of this stuffhad ever been really like
reported or talked about.
And you know none of this stuff, a lot of the websites that we
were that were so important adecade and a half ago are no
longer here.
Their archives are, you know,inaccessible or like broken or
(34:02):
like the ways that we uh used toum, experience the internet,
that that's just not possibleanymore.
And so it took a lot ofreporting and digging and
clicking on links that wentnowhere and and um, and so I'm,
you know, had we not taken threeyears, it would have been.
Had we had we only done the twomonth thing, it would have been
a very different, um, moresurface level thing, and by the
(34:26):
way we would call jeff up and wewould be like yo, so we just
found this out.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
What do you think about this?
Or, you know, we like we'd belike jeff, where were you when
you first heard about soldierboy and and so like that would
unlock something in the back ofjeff's head and he'd be like
wait, hold on.
He talked like he did a songabout, like his, his, like
bathing or whatever right andand and remember, he's still
living in Mississippi.
Yeah, and, like that, sent us ona, on a whole nother thing, or
(34:52):
we'd be like, tell us about LilB or like all this stuff that
you know I think a lot of peopleeither forgot about or take for
granted.
And because of the discussionsthat we had with Jeff, with
Plain Pat, with uh SK, with umwhiz, with big Sean, with, you
know, sav and Steve-O, whoeverit was you know you get this
(35:15):
perspective that a lot of peopleagain just take for granted and
have forgotten about.
Now it's, it's in a historicalrecord and people can go back
and hear from the actual peoplewho lived it.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Yeah, just one last thing, which is that Mickey was
so accessible to us and we justkept going deeper and deeper and
deeper into his story.
And it's interesting becauseoriginally I think that Mickey
was going to play a fairly minorrole in the podcast, like we,
he was not a an immediate maincharacter for us, but the more
(35:51):
that we understood his story and, like, understood his arc, we
started to see how important arole he could play in our
podcast, um, as somebody who hadsort of skipped the line, been
signed to a label, um, and then,where the label didn't really
understand the internet at thesame pace, um, where that left
(36:13):
him, and so, and also just likethe idea of of redefining
success on your own terms, andjust um, there was a lot more to
his story than I think that wefirst realized mickey, who is
always with us on these podcastsI won't get into his story
today.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah, he had a little issue that today, so but he
might we are going to dive deepinto mickey's uh backstory at
some point, because I think alot of our listeners don't know
the full story um of mickey fax,and it is.
It is a fascinating one andcertainly jeffrey here, who is a
wealth of knowledge right herein front of me.
But all right, jeffrey, I'masked one more question, then
we'll go backwards.
(36:53):
But is the?
Is there a?
Next, is this, is this a?
Is this a thing that will existby itself, or will there be a
number, another part of it?
Will there be a part two?
Speaker 3 (37:06):
yeah, I think that we are working on a, a, not a part
two, but we are working onanother thing in that universe,
um, and so we are in the processof uh, of selling it and making
it, and and uh doing all ofthat.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
But I think, I think, what we're uh, we're excited
about is the fact that to havewe spent 15 years doing weekly
content.
Everyone knew what we were upto all the time.
To have dedicated such a longtime to one project was
(37:43):
certainly new for us and it wasreceived so well.
I think we were very excitedabout that type of storytelling
and that has opened up newopportunities for us to continue
to do that.
Um, you know, in addition, westill have stuff that we do, um,
on a semi-regular basis.
That is, that is out there.
Like we have a podcast with thelocks on a semi-regular basis.
(38:03):
That is out there.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Like we have a podcast with the locks, who are
again 9-1-4 guys, westchesterguys who speak the same language
, Although, by the way, Jadachanges the number to a 9-1-7
number, so I mean, like I don'tknow if we're that's whack.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
That's whack.
It is whack it is whack, butwe're.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
You know we have a podcast that we do with them
called two Jews and two blackdudes review the movies.
That's a very fun.
You know, hang.
You know it's a.
It's a fun idea and that issomething that like.
If people miss theconversational stuff that we do,
that's where you can go getthat.
We did a new episode basedaround their Tiny Desk episode.
(38:42):
That came out recently.
But, to answer your questionmore specifically, we are
working on a project that Ithink is similar in storytelling
to the blog.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Well, especially because the blog era is such a
rich time, it's so big, and thepodcast that we did Pause, pause
, pause, and like the podcastthat we did, while the podcast
that we did is so dynamic andand it contains a lot of stories
, like it's just one way ofdoing it and so there's, there's
more, there's more on the wayto cover yeah.
(39:16):
But like we're not going to belike the sound cloud guys, we're
not going to be the what's thenext era guys, you know that's
not, that's not our thing.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
That was part one of our conversation with Eric and
Jeff Rosenthal.
Don't miss part two.
All right, folks, that's ourshow.
Tune in to Unglossing decodingbrand and culture on Apple
podcasts, Spotify or YouTube,and follow us on Instagram at
unglossy pod, to join theconversation.
Until next time, I'm Tom Frank.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
I'm Tom Frank.
I'm Jeffrey.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Sledge Smicky, that was good.
This week on Unglossy .
Speaker 2 (00:01):
This was way before I know we're going to sound like
old heads here, but this is waybefore YouTube partnerships.
This is way before you knowsponsorships.
This was straight out of ourpockets.
We have to pay rent, so we'retaking, like you know, whatever
Dumb jobs, Whatever temp jobs.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Yeah, I was a magician's assistant.
Yeah Off of yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, off of uh craigslist yeah,
listen guys, you got to paythat rent right, yeah, from the
top.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, I'm tom frank, I'm mickey fax and I'm jeffrey
sledge welcome to unglossydeconing brand and culture.
I'm tom frank, partner and chiefcreative officer at merit
creative.
This is mickey fax, hip-hopartist and founder and ceo of
pendulum inc.
And that is is Jeffrey Sledge,a seasoned music industry
veteran who has worked with someof the biggest artists in the
(00:49):
business.
We're here to explore themoments of vulnerability,
pivotal decisions and creativesparks that fuel the
relationship between brand andculture.
Get ready for athought-provoking journey into
the heart and soul of brandingthe unscripted, unfiltered and
truly unglossy truth.
All right, folks, we're backfor another episode.
The unscripted, unfiltered andtruly unglossy truth.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
And I'll just start with this I'll let you tell the
story.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I'll let you tell the story, but to me it's either
your computer battery or it'sMickey's car battery.
But nothing ever goes smoothhere.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
I made sure I was like I cannot have any glitches
with my computer.
So I charged my shit up, likebecause I actually didn't charge
last night, but I charged myshit up this morning.
I was ready to go, but Mickeyleft his hazard lights on for
some reason last night and hiscar is battery died?
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Who leaves their hazard?
Speaker 4 (01:50):
lights on.
I don't know, I don't know andI didn't know I actually didn't
know the hazard lights couldkill your car, because I thought
that actually went to like aseparate thing.
I didn't know, it was on a carbattery.
But anyway, his car is dead.
He was going to get a jump.
The people said they were goingto come at like 1040, but then
they couldn't come to like closeto 12.
(02:12):
And he has to go.
He has a performance and he'sparticipating in InvestFest,
which is a big conference thisweekend here in Atlanta, and so
he couldn't make it.
And, of course, his name wasbrought up a thousand times on
this podcast.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I mean the show must go on.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
The show got to go on because these guys are also
very hard to catch.
They're very hard to catch, soif we don't try to postpone it
because we postponed it oncealready, they're busy guys, you
know.
So that's why I was like we gotit.
We got to go Cause we don'tknow when it'll happen again.
It'll be, it'll be.
We'll be wearing coats nexttime it happens again, you know.
I mean, it's a good show, I wasimpressed.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I was impressed for me scheduling these two guys and
then, little do I know that youknow them extremely well,
Mickey knows them extremely well.
Well, and these guys areawesome.
We had Eric and Jeff Rosenthal.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
If people listening don't know it's.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
The Real, then you're going to learn all about it
because it's the real deal.
I love these guys.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
I love them and that's why I wanted to do it
anyway, because my relationshipwith them is so tight.
I knew I could carry it even ifMickey wasn't here, because of
my relationship with the guys.
Um, you know, mr Mickey, and Iknow he, he's mad, sad, as we
say that he couldn't make it,but, um, it's a great show we
took.
We cover the blog error, wecover their podcast.
(03:35):
Uh, we tell stories some funny.
Um, it was just a great, greatepisode.
It's a great episode.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
It was a good episode .
I laughed.
I laughed a lot at this one,yeah, and we could have talked
to these guys for probablyanother four or five hours
Easily.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Easily.
There's a lot of stuff I didn'teven bring up because we didn't
have the time, but yeah, it wasa great episode.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I mean with that, I think we just dive right in.
Sorry Mickey, let I mean withthat, I think we just dive right
in Sorry Mickey, let's go,we'll catch you next show.
But here we go with Eric andJeff Rosenthal.
Unglossy is brought to you byMerrick Creative, looking to
skyrocket your business'svisibility and drive growth.
At Merrick Creative, we solveyour brand and marketing woes
With big ideas, decades ofexperience and innovative
(04:20):
solutions.
We'll draw in your targetaudience and keep them hooked.
Remember, creativity is key tosuccess.
Partner with Merit Creative andunlock your brand's potential.
Learn more at meritcreativecom.
And now back to the show.
Today we got not one, but wegot two guests that apparently
we all know.
They are the creative mindsbehind it's the Real.
(04:43):
These brothers from Harrison,new York, have made a name for
themselves in the entertainmentindustry with their sharp humor
and deep passion for music andculture.
Starting with weekly sketchesin 2007, they quickly gained
attention for their humorous andinsightful takes on the hip-hop
scene.
Their podcast, a Waste of Timewith it's the Real, featured
candid conversations with someof the biggest names in
entertainment.
(05:03):
Most recently, eric and Jefflaunched the blog era.
Very good, and we're going toget into that.
A deep dive into thetransformative period of hip hop
industry, exploring how therise of blogs changed the music
industry forever.
Despite their success, theyremain grounded and authentic,
always pushing the boundaries ofcomedy and entertainment.
Let's dive in to the uniquejourney and the impact of it's
(05:25):
the real.
Please welcome eric and jeffrosenthal, hey hey, good to be
here.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Thanks for having us guys wait.
How often do y'all beinterviewed, uh?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
here and there.
Yeah, you know I.
I think that like podcasting islike a wild thing where it's
like everyone who's got a mic isnow like interviewing.
So it that's exactly who we are.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah, yeah, we're people with a mic.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
But, like, but it is this thing where it's just like,
you know, we could be on oneside of the interview spectrum,
we could also be on the other.
So it's all good, it's just aconversation and, like, this is
an easy conversation for usbecause, like you guys are, just
you know, like this whole thingis going to be a lot of fun.
We're ready for it and uh,it'll just be back and forth and
we're we're excited to be herewait one more.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
One more question is that the same apartment?
It looks no, yeah, no, that's adifferent apartment and I was
this is a different apartmentthan you were here yeah yeah
yeah, so jeff was on our uhpodcast.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
A waste of time with it's the real.
When you were talking about bignames, jeff Sledge is one of
those big names.
That's right, yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Jeff came over to our last apartment where we sat at
our kitchen table in our kitchen, which was like you could stand
there and reach both of yourarms out and touch both the
walls right out and touch boththe walls Right.
So, uh, we are grateful thatJeff would sit there with us for
, you know, two hours in ourkitchen and have, honestly, a
(06:50):
conversation that still carrieson to this day Like there's
clips that you'll see go virallike every other week that Jeff
is a part of, and it's just it.
that's such a blessing and we'rereally, really grateful for
that.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
So thank you, jeff blessing, and we're really
really grateful for that.
So thank you, yeah.
Yeah, that was a.
That was a fun time, that was agreat podcast.
I had a good time on that day,had a good time, but anyway,
let's move forward, becausetom's feeling left out I mean,
no, I, you know, every day Ilearn more about the mysterious.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
But hey, I want to.
I want to start.
I want to start from the earlydays, because I'm amazed by you
guys, like I mean, how did this?
You know, we all look at youtoday and we're like, oh, these
guys always had it.
It was easy, they've done itall.
But I'm sure it wasn't Like howdid you even get into this?
How did it start?
Did you just always know thisis the path you were taking?
No, did you go off on otherpaths and end up here Life.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Life is not a straight line, right, so we're
originally from WestchesterCounty 914, 914.
Which is about 30 minutes northof New York and just actually a
town over from where Jeff grewup.
And you know, we were outsiders, right, we were guys who loved
hip hop.
We listened to Hot 97.
We read XXL Magazine, wewatched BET, but, like, hip hop
(08:03):
was at a remove.
It was like an arm's lengthaway, right, we would never,
ever meet our musical heroes,right, or the people behind the
scenes who made these, thesemachines go.
So we were just fans.
We, we love this thing fromafar.
Um, you know, we, we grew uplistening to uh, bad boy and
rough riders and Rockefeller,and that was who we were.
(08:25):
But again, we're two whiteJewish kids from 30 Minutes
outside of New York who lovethis thing.
So I thought I was going to be afeature film writer and
director.
Jeff thought he was going towrite for magazines.
You take those tools and youdevelop some things on your own
and we were making fun littlesketches with our friends.
(08:47):
And then when we tried to makethat into a TV show and knock
down people's doors and itdidn't sell, we were like, why
not do it ourselves?
So that's where, at the adventof YouTube and Vimeo, we were
like, let's treat this like areal thing, put ourselves sort
of in a position to include ourvoice, and in August of 2007,
(09:11):
the two of us started puttingout weekly sketches that we did
for the next three and a halfyears, yeah, and, like you know,
we would do it every singleMonday.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
And it became this thing where and it's probably
because like there wasn't thatmuch stuff on the internet at
that point, but like we weredoing original content at a time
when nobody else was, and soyou know, we got people like the
Clips or Max B or Cameron orwhoever else.
(09:41):
I mean like everybody wouldjust come over to our apartment
and and shoot videos with us and, um, and those went very viral
but the thing was this was waybefore.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I know we're gonna sound like old heads here, but
this is way before youtubepartnerships.
This is way before you knowsponsorships.
This was straight out of ourpockets.
We have to pay rent so we'retaking, like you know, dumb jobs
, whatever temp jobs yeah, I wasa magician's assistant off of
uh yeah yeah, off of uhcraigslist, yeah listen guys,
(10:12):
you gotta pay that rent rightyeah and when you, when you
couldn't pay for subway fare,you gotta walk right.
When you can't, you know, haveevery meal, you skip meals,
right.
But if you love something, ifyou really want to like earn
your way in you, you make thosesacrifices and that's that's
what we did.
Now, jeff was there when Bun Bcalled us and wanted to be in
(10:34):
one of our sketches.
That's when we first met Jeff,right.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
How, how did?
How did you jump though from Imean that's a huge jump from
doing the videos with yourbuddies to Bun B calling you
Totally?
How does that even?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
happen.
So that is the blogs, right.
So we come from a world inwhich there's traditional
gatekeepers, right, you want tohave a TV show, you've got to go
through certain levels andcertain steps up the ladder to
get there.
But we weren't.
You know, we came along at atime where it was like you know
what?
We want to go directly to thepeople that make the decisions.
(11:06):
So we would email those people,right, we would get those
meetings.
But for people to understandthat that's a different story.
So that's why we had to do aproof of concept.
That's why we used YouTube,that's why we put out these
videos.
Bun, who throughout our careerhas been such an advocate for us
and such a great partner for us, and his co-sign.
(11:29):
As all of us here know, if Bunndoes something, the rest of the
industry is going to payattention and follow, because
Bunn is always early.
Yeah, talking to ThedaSandiford, you know her passing
along our number.
Bun calling us at 8 o'clock ona random Wednesday morning and
(11:49):
saying I want to be a part ofone of these sketches.
That is the reason why you knowCameron and Max B and Nick
Cannon and the Clips andeverybody else.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah, all these people were then on the show,
but yeah, bun was the first andthat was like early on.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, it does.
But, like you know, again, likejeff was saying, we were doing
something different, right, ifwe were doing the same thing as
everyone else online, then it'slike, well, why would I want to
do that, right?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
yeah, correct so, like you know, this is before
twitter, this is before, likepeople were able to, rappers
were seen through their musicprimarily, and so we were the
maybe first ones who were like,hey, like we've an outlet where
rappers can be funny, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
And you came on at a time where right YouTube was
just starting to.
Really people really didn'tknow what they were doing, so
you got on the scene kind ofearly, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Correct, and so there's that.
But there's also the platformthat matters, right?
So YouTube, you know, was notthis place where people would go
and spend their whole days justgoing through videos.
You had to go to a websitewhere you had somebody who
curated this stuff, websitewhere you had somebody who
(13:07):
curated this stuff.
So, luckily, there were a bunchof websites called blogs, which
were places where differentpeople and you didn't have to
know them in real life, theycould exist in any city around
the world where they chose whatrap songs they wanted to put on
their websites, what artiststhey wanted to promote, and then
, by the time we came around,what content they wanted to
shine a light on, the time wecame around, what content they
wanted to shine a light on.
And so, because we were doingvideos with Bun, with Cam, with
(13:31):
the clips, whoever it was thosecut through, they were different
, they were available and,thankfully to people like SK
from Now Right or Miss Info fromMissInfo TVtv, or two dope boys
or whoever it was, we were thenright next to, you know, the,
the new jay-z song that dropped,the new naz song that dropped,
(13:53):
the new ludicrous song that,like you know, was being teased
like that mattered and all of asudden, those outsiders, the two
of us, were suddenly seen assomething maybe bigger than the
reality was.
So by the time that we're goingto like actual events downtown,
uptown, in Brooklyn, whereverit was people would see us and
(14:13):
be like I know you from theinternet.
You're actually real.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Like this.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
This is crazy, and that's.
That's how sort of, like youknow, our reputation grew.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Yeah, yeah, blogs, blogs.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Well, that leads me into and I know we're jumping
all around here but the blog era.
Then I didn't know the like, soI've listened to the blog era.
I think it's absolutelyfantastic.
I got introduced to the firsttime I met you guys.
I didn't know how deep thoughthis went with you.
I mean, in theory, this is yourown story as much as it is
every story of that era.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Correct, yeah, so yeah, I think that it's recent
history.
Right, we're talking.
2007 is the starting point,let's say the blog era.
Its peak, let's say it sort oflike trails off after 2012.
A lot of people can look backand be like, oh well, why would
I want to hear something about atime that was so recent?
(15:07):
You know, like Kendrick J Cole,drake, they're all of the blog
era.
They're still at the top of thechart, so why would I want to
look at something or listen tosomething?
With that context, we were ableto create a project that gave it
(15:30):
a perspective that was waybigger and maybe way more
interesting than people gave itcredit for.
Because a lot of people look,they're like hip hop with the
golden era that's what I thinkof hip hop or like let's go back
to, like the early 80s and likethe mid 80s and like that's the
hip hop that I can look at inperspective and with context and
see that.
And we were like, well, let'stalk about this very important
transitional time where allthese major artists came out of
(15:52):
and you're right, we're also ofthat time like we ran around
with Wale and Wiz Khalifa andCurrency back then.
Right, like you know New YorkCity, the Lower East Side, that
was a breeding ground for abrand new type of creator, and
so we are absolutely a part ofthat.
But our story, you're right isright there, with the Peter
(16:14):
Rosenbergs, with the internetcelebrities.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Jay.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Smooth, like all these guys who would break
through in different ways onMSNBC or in the New York Times
Deezus and Merrow.
Those guys are all ourcontemporaries.
We've all gained something bybeing on the blogs and, you know
, the blog era is very importantto us and when it came to
(16:41):
looking at it, I think that wewanted to not put ourselves at
the center of the story becausewe wanted to, you know, take
people through it but at thesame time, include ourselves,
because we did make a mark andbecause our work does last, and
we wanted to show that outsidevoices, even if we were just 30
minutes up the road, thoseoutside voices could become
(17:06):
insiders, could be in the circus, understand this thing, speak
the language, and I think we'revery grateful that the project
came out, included so manyvoices and lives on, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I mean it's amazing.
It's amazing how many voiceswere involved and it's funny you
say it doesn't seem like it'sthat long ago, but in terms of
just where technology is, thingsare promoted, it does feel like
a long time ago that welistened to like blogs.
Were that that focus?
Because it's changed so rapidly, like it's, it's right.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
I mean it's completely different today than
it was just 10 years yeah, and Ithink that's like one of the uh
things that we wanted to dealwith.
Right, like, this is a storythat people always talk about
the blog era, especially like onum, on Twitter, or just like
you know, there's people of acertain nature like, oh, like
that was, that was my time, youknow.
(18:00):
But, yeah, there's so fewpeople who understand why any of
the things happened the waythey did.
Um, they didn't, they didn'tunderstand the process, they
didn't understand the characterswho were involved, and so, like
that's sort of the the worldthat we were dealing with, you
know yeah, it was.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
It was that the time was interesting.
I mean you had to.
I mean, for me I was.
The blogs were the first thingI looked at in the morning when
I got to the office, like youkind of go through to see if
anything anybody put anythingout as a new video or a sketch,
a new sketch or new skit orwhatever.
It wasn't even just about themusic per se, but it was about
that, that culture and that howthat culture was moving.
(18:40):
It kind of you know andthinking about it, it kind of
you know.
In the early 80s I guess, youhad the collision of, uh, punk
and obviously early hip hop andfashion.
You know where Madonna came outof and Basquiat came out of and
you know that those people youknow, keith Haring and you know
(19:03):
and obviously all the rappersyou know, and they were all
going downtown.
Same thing, fat Pie, freddy,they were going downtown and
they were connecting in theseart galleries and dance interior
and these clubs and stuff, andthis was the same thing.
But I don't think anybodyrealized what was happening.
People were going, like yousaid, lower East Side.
It was fashion guys in there,obviously it was hip-hop guys in
(19:24):
there, it was journalists inthere, there were big-time
photographers, and we would allbe in these spaces, spaces just
kind of hanging out and not evenknowing what's coming next.
We didn't know what the fuckwas coming next, we didn't know
we could make it a career, wedidn't know if it would be here
next week even, but it was justsomething that we loved and we
all kind of connected to it.
Like I said, from big peoplelike Cuddy, who was, you know,
(19:52):
working at Bape and became thisinternational superstar, you
guys, just all these people justkind of hanging out, people
working at 10 Deep and peopleworking at Supreme and people
working at BBC, and it'sinteresting to see where it's
grown to.
And I'm glad you guys did theblog everything because it
needed to be documented, becauseit was almost like this big
movement.
To me it was as big a movementas like the late 60s, you know,
(20:17):
with their thing and rock androll and you know hate, hate,
asperger and all that stuff and,like I said, then the early 80s
, when you know madonna and allthat kind of thing and this was
this is exactly the same thingand a lot of the people who are
the trendsetters and thetastemakers of today come from
that.
You know the next.
Let me just say this one thing.
The next thing I and I don'tknow if there's enough footage I
want somebody to do a historyon fashion um in the 2000s,
(20:43):
because that was the same thingwhere, asap rocking, you go
downtown below houston, rightbelow house on a Saturday and it
would be so many kids it wouldbe just kids all over the street
comparing fashion and hangingout and Virgil and all these
people I want somebody to kindof I hope somebody has enough
footage to kind of do that.
But back to you guys.
(21:04):
I'm glad you guys were able totalk to me.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
There's your next project right there, so that was
an idea, by the way.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Because if you went, down on the Saturday it was real
?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Yeah, there was supposed to be.
That's one of the things thatwe were going to include in the
blog era podcast.
And then we were like, oh,maybe that's like a second
season.
But we felt like the story offashion, it would have the same
sort of up and down trajectoryas the, as the first season.
(21:33):
And so we're like we don't, wedon't want to just replicate it,
but it is.
And also, somebody should tellthat story.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
It's an incredible, incredible story.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Yeah, we.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
I spoke to Scott from 10 deep about his story and
it's just like somebody shouldhelp him tell that it's a very
dynamic and interesting epicstory, yeah, but in terms of the
story that we ended up tellingfor the Blog Era podcast, it is
(22:06):
the story that is about musicand technology coming together.
There is that intersection andthat does matter.
But, like the, the reallydeeper stories are about race
and class and the American dream, both realized and snatched
away.
Because these are things thatalways come around.
There's always this wheel,right when it's like, you have
(22:28):
the people who are thegatekeepers, then you have the
people who disrupt thingsgatekeepers, then you have the
people who disrupt things.
Then eventually and this alwayshappens the disruptors become
the new gatekeepers.
Yep, and, and the wheelcontinues.
But what makes the blog areainteresting is, by the time,
that odd future comes around andthey can't get the attention of
the bloggers, they, they shootout.
(22:50):
You know, beyond the cycle.
Right, they're like off becausethey, they could just
distribute everything themselves, they could get the word out on
social media, they can godirectly.
They don't need a middlemananymore.
They didn't need them to godirectly to their fans.
Yeah, and so, because it'sthrown off and you have a sound
cloud, you know, coming out andyou have, like all these other
opportunities to get aroundtraditional gatekeepers, all of
(23:13):
a sudden, the, the playing fieldis just spread all the way out,
and so that's what makes thisthing interesting.
Where it's like, oh, you can'thave like the buildings, take
back control, but all of asudden they can't get control of
what these kids are doing,right, they're trying to keep up
what's up.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Okay.
So what?
The was it the wag, the wag thedog.
It reversed around.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
The tail was wagging the dog, absolutely so I want to
know more about the productionof this, right?
I mean, this was a massiveproject.
This didn't happen overnight,right?
If I remember correctly, thiswas like a three year three year
project right or maybe more.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yeah, so it started in 2020, during the pandemic.
So we were inside.
We had no idea what was goingon.
Like you guys remember, likethere were times when it was
like, and it's hard to believenow, right Now, that we've sort
of come out the other side.
It is very hard to believe thatthere was a time, like, where
(24:13):
we didn't know how this thingwas moving.
We didn't know, like we we havea third brother.
We would not let him come intoour home right, he's still mad
about that, by the way becausewe were just like I don't know
who you're around, like I don'tknow how you're gonna spread
this band?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
he's like nobody yeah and so he's like I just want to
use your laundry room.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
We're like no, yeah, so so what happened was we were
like jeff.
Jeff wanted to tell a story wehad done.
We had done a, a weekly podcastfor five years, right, the same
one that that jeff was on, thesame one that, like every, ross
and cardi b was on, right, yeah,but like we couldn't then
invite strangers over to ourapartment in in good faith,
(24:48):
right, like we didn't know if wewould spread something, they
would spread something.
You can't.
You have an airborne disease.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
It's probably not great to have an artist the
Migos and their 30 people comeover.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
So what that meant for us was let's try to tackle
storytelling in a different way.
Now I just want to say, ifpeople are listening and they're
like, wait, how did the guys dosketches and then end up in
this place, where they're takenseriously as like documentarians
, it is.
It is this thing where it'slike look, we have the tools,
we're just using them in adifferent way, cause we're the
(25:19):
same guys.
We've always been.
It's the real.
We've always been like openly,like these funny guys who are
good storytellers, whether inour, our sketches, our music,
our, uh, like absurdistinterviews with people like
Stevie wonder or, uh, thetelevision show that we wrote
that was not made, unfortunately, but all these things the same
(25:41):
thing that that ties all thesethings together is that we're
we're talented storytellers.
So this was just storytellingin a different fashion, which is
what Jeff wanted to do.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah, and I mean like .
So what happened was that RickRoss's team had reached out to
us to do an anniversary episodeof Teflon Don and so we did an
oral history based off.
We were like, oh, we know a lotof people who were involved in
that album.
We talked to probably like 10people and we put it out and
like it was just a, it was sowe'd been doing weekly content
(26:12):
for so long and then, during thetop of the pandemic, we were
doing daily content and to dothis thing that was more focused
on like a long-term, like itwas.
It was edited, it was produced,it was, um, thought out as
opposed to like a casualconversation or, uh, you know,
uh, an interview talking aboutsomebody's life.
We were just like, oh, this isso different and it flexes
(26:35):
different muscles, and when wewe took a break for a week to
like figure out our next move,because we've been doing daily
podcasting for three months yeah.
And we were just exhausted.
We were like, oh, we need abreak to to just figure shit out
.
Um, and then, day one, wethought, oh, like, let's tell
(26:56):
the story let's tell the storyof the blog and we also.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
We wanted to be the ones to tell it because we lived
it yeah right, we didn't wantlike an outsider, like, and
that's why it worked honestly Imean you're so integrated as
part of it that that's to me themagic of it.
Well, so we have the access.
Because of that, right, like we, we can and we can make the
phone calls and that's what wedid.
So this was a process.
We were like, oh, this willtake two months and we'll, we'll
put it out on the same feed asa waste of time and we'll, you
(27:21):
know, just continue this thingwhen all of this, like you know,
settles out.
But it just kept going and itgot deeper and deeper.
You know, we call Jeff becauseJeff's our friend, right, but
there were things in there whereJeff was just like, oh, how
about this thing?
And it would send us in a newdirection where we hadn't even
thought of that before.
Like, could this story havejust been very surface level?
(27:43):
For sure.
But Jeff is like, hey, by theway, you know, here's my
experience with you know, here'smy experience with you, know
the end of jive and like whatbattery was and how mickey fax
settles into this thing.
And then you take it a stepfurther and then you talk to
mickey about his experience,right, but like everyone knows
mickey fax from you know certainsongs that he had, certain
(28:07):
magazine covers he had.
But the deeper you get into it,you learn about his parents,
you learn about his parents, youlearn about his high school,
you learn about all these thingsand that becomes a story, or
you?
You think of things in new ways.
We spoke to 150 people.
We had 500 hours of brand newrecordings, um to.
And then you know what?
Uh, we had a Patreon, and therewere our most hardcore fans
(28:32):
contributed to us and allowed usto have this extended break
away from regular content.
No one knew what we were doing.
We didn't put our business outthere.
Of the 150 people that we spoketo on the record, no one
spoiled this.
No one tweeted out, said whatwe were up to and that allowed
(28:54):
us this space to, to work onthis thing for, like you said,
three years.
And we didn't, honestly, wedidn't think about business.
You know, we weren't like, forthe first two years, we we
weren't like, oh, who's gonnaput this out there?
How much money we're gonna?
It wasn't that, it was justlet's concentrate on the art
again.
We had, you know, patreon,patreon and our people were
letting us do this and they wereon the inside, so they
(29:20):
understood.
You know what we were workingon, how we were doing, giving
them regular updates and allthat stuff, and it did take
three years.
In the third year, that is whenwe started having conversations
being like, well you know, isthis an Amazon project?
Is this a Spotify project?
Is this a Warner music project?
And it wasn't any of those.
(29:40):
We ended up partnering withPharrell um, and that made sense
on a number of levels,including the fact that he's the
godfather to this whole scene.
You don't get a drake or akendrick or a j cole or a wale
or wiz khalifa or any of thesepeople, without pharrell going
(30:00):
out there and being hisauthentic self, his boundary
pushing self, and so to have himas a partner in this was
extremely important to us, andthey were a first time podcast
company.
Other times.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
They were brand new at that point.
Brand new, yeah, brand new.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yeah, and and and but it.
It really was very meaningfulto us to do something with him
and for him to be a greatpartner with us in presenting
this project.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Yeah, shouts to everybody over at Other Tone.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Yeah, before we move forward, I feel like we're
skipping past the podcast.
We talked about it.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
We did.
We're going to get back to that.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
We're going to get back to that Okay, Because it
meant a lot more.
It was way deeper than justlike oh, we did a little podcast
, so I don't want to skip pastthat.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
But we'll get back to it.
Okay, we will get back to that.
I want to ask two morequestions, though, because the
thing about Pharrell was I wasworking with him at that time
too, and that's when I ended uprunning into you guys.
It was like amazing Cause.
I was like wait a minute, thisis the thing I heard about a
(31:09):
year ago.
And here it is live and it'sout there in the world right now
, and it is fascinating and it'sfunny how the pandemic really
started this, because in a lotof ways, I'm sitting here today
because of the pandemic.
I mean, during the pandemic iswhen we rolled out the Lupe and
Roy show and we got really deepinto that and I really started
to understand how deep thisculture goes.
(31:30):
I was like you guys, I was afan, but I didn't know any of
these guys.
I had no experience, and once Istarted to get into that, you
realize this goes really deep,and the connection and how many
people and how people areconnected is fascinating to me.
And that's what really amazedme about what you guys did was
every episode became a storyupon itself and it was
(31:51):
fascinating and I kept learningand it really connected the dots
for me because I was like, wow,I had no idea this guy was
involved with this, thatconnected to this, which
connected to that, and it wasamazing, thank, you.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
So I'll tell you what three years allowed us to do.
We obviously lived together, weworked together.
We had a giant six foot by fourfoot bulletin board and we just
kept staring at this thing forthree years.
We kept organizing.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
It looked like a crime scene with all the red
yeah it honestly did.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
It looked like you know a very messy thing that we
could understand.
You know, it's like thosepeople who, like their clothes,
are all over the room but theyknow exactly where everything is
.
That that's us.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
But it's also like because it's a little bit like a
2001 space odyssey, but it'salso like like this monolith
from like planet of the apes.
Eric and I would just bestaring at this thing like just
like you know, basking in, likethe the power, trying to figure
it out for, like I don't know,hours at a time.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
But because of that, and the long walks that we would
take and the the conversationsthat we would have, we were able
to figure this thing out andconnect dots that maybe, like
you, would not have known, maybesomeone else who was like
running a blog would not haveknown, but also, like that we,
as observers and participants in, could never have known.
(33:15):
So we're grateful for takingthe time and really, like, not
following some sort of likearbitrary deadline, not just,
you know, uh, settling we, wenever settled.
You know, we kept digging anddigging and we found answers
that were extremely meaningfuland if you listen to the project
, um, stand up yeah, I mean likewe were trying to answer very
(33:38):
big questions, you know, like,why did this thing happen?
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Why is it no longer here?
And you know none of this stuffhad ever been really like
reported or talked about.
And you know none of this stuff, a lot of the websites that we
were that were so important adecade and a half ago are no
longer here.
Their archives are, you know,inaccessible or like broken or
(34:02):
like the ways that we uh used toum, experience the internet,
that that's just not possibleanymore.
And so it took a lot ofreporting and digging and
clicking on links that wentnowhere and and um, and so I'm,
you know, had we not taken threeyears, it would have been.
Had we had we only done the twomonth thing, it would have been
a very different, um, moresurface level thing, and by the
(34:26):
way we would call jeff up and wewould be like yo, so we just
found this out.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
What do you think about this?
Or, you know, we like we'd belike jeff, where were you when
you first heard about soldierboy and and so like that would
unlock something in the back ofjeff's head and he'd be like
wait, hold on.
He talked like he did a songabout, like his, his, like
bathing or whatever right andand and remember, he's still
living in Mississippi.
Yeah, and, like that, sent us ona, on a whole nother thing, or
(34:52):
we'd be like, tell us about LilB or like all this stuff that
you know I think a lot of peopleeither forgot about or take for
granted.
And because of the discussionsthat we had with Jeff, with
Plain Pat, with uh SK, with umwhiz, with big Sean, with, you
know, sav and Steve-O, whoeverit was you know you get this
(35:15):
perspective that a lot of peopleagain just take for granted and
have forgotten about.
Now it's, it's in a historicalrecord and people can go back
and hear from the actual peoplewho lived it.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Yeah, just one last thing, which is that Mickey was
so accessible to us and we justkept going deeper and deeper and
deeper into his story.
And it's interesting becauseoriginally I think that Mickey
was going to play a fairly minorrole in the podcast, like we,
he was not a an immediate maincharacter for us, but the more
(35:51):
that we understood his story and, like, understood his arc, we
started to see how important arole he could play in our
podcast, um, as somebody who hadsort of skipped the line, been
signed to a label, um, and then,where the label didn't really
understand the internet at thesame pace, um, where that left
(36:13):
him, and so, and also just likethe idea of of redefining
success on your own terms, andjust um, there was a lot more to
his story than I think that wefirst realized mickey, who is
always with us on these podcastsI won't get into his story
today.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah, he had a little issue that today, so but he
might we are going to dive deepinto mickey's uh backstory at
some point, because I think alot of our listeners don't know
the full story um of mickey fax,and it is.
It is a fascinating one andcertainly jeffrey here, who is a
wealth of knowledge right herein front of me.
But all right, jeffrey, I'masked one more question, then
we'll go backwards.
(36:53):
But is the?
Is there a?
Next, is this, is this a?
Is this a thing that will existby itself, or will there be a
number, another part of it?
Will there be a part two?
Speaker 3 (37:06):
yeah, I think that we are working on a, a, not a part
two, but we are working onanother thing in that universe,
um, and so we are in the processof uh, of selling it and making
it, and and uh doing all ofthat.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
But I think, I think, what we're uh, we're excited
about is the fact that to havewe spent 15 years doing weekly
content.
Everyone knew what we were upto all the time.
To have dedicated such a longtime to one project was
(37:43):
certainly new for us and it wasreceived so well.
I think we were very excitedabout that type of storytelling
and that has opened up newopportunities for us to continue
to do that.
Um, you know, in addition, westill have stuff that we do, um,
on a semi-regular basis.
That is, that is out there.
Like we have a podcast with thelocks on a semi-regular basis.
(38:03):
That is out there.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Like we have a podcast with the locks, who are
again 9-1-4 guys, westchesterguys who speak the same language
, Although, by the way, Jadachanges the number to a 9-1-7
number, so I mean, like I don'tknow if we're that's whack.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
That's whack.
It is whack it is whack, butwe're.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
You know we have a podcast that we do with them
called two Jews and two blackdudes review the movies.
That's a very fun.
You know, hang.
You know it's a.
It's a fun idea and that issomething that like.
If people miss theconversational stuff that we do,
that's where you can go getthat.
We did a new episode basedaround their Tiny Desk episode.
(38:42):
That came out recently.
But, to answer your questionmore specifically, we are
working on a project that Ithink is similar in storytelling
to the blog.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Well, especially because the blog era is such a
rich time, it's so big, and thepodcast that we did Pause, pause
, pause, and like the podcastthat we did, while the podcast
that we did is so dynamic andand it contains a lot of stories
, like it's just one way ofdoing it and so there's, there's
more, there's more on the wayto cover yeah.
(39:16):
But like we're not going to belike the sound cloud guys, we're
not going to be the what's thenext era guys, you know that's
not, that's not our thing.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
That was part one of our conversation with Eric and
Jeff Rosenthal.
Don't miss part two.
All right, folks, that's ourshow.
Tune in to Unglossing decodingbrand and culture on Apple
podcasts, Spotify or YouTube,and follow us on Instagram at
unglossy pod, to join theconversation.
Until next time, I'm Tom Frank.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
I'm Tom Frank.
I'm Jeffrey.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Sledge Smicky, that was good.
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