Keenan Scott II: Poetry, Passion, and Broadway Dreams

In this week's episode of Unglossy, Tom and Jeffrey sit down with Keenan Scott II, a prolific playwright, poet, actor, director, and producer from Queens, New York. Keenan delves into his artistic journey, beginning with his early passion for visual arts and comic books, and transitioning into poetry and performance as he navigated his formative years in Maryland. His experiences at open mic nights in D.C. were pivotal, shaping his creative expression and laying the groundwork for his future in theater. Keenan also discusses the genesis of his renowned play, "Thoughts of a Colored Man," which started as college monologues aimed at authentically representing Black experiences absent from mainstream theater.

The conversation further explores the complexities and challenges of bringing a play to Broadway. Keenan sheds light on the logistical and financial hurdles, including navigating the influential theater families that control Broadway venues. Despite these challenges and the abrupt end to his play's run due to COVID-19, Keenan's work continues to make a significant impact. Looking ahead, he shares his excitement for future projects through his company, Project Toy Entertainment, aiming to fuse various artistic mediums and empower new creative voices. His advice to emerging artists—to believe in themselves and embrace perseverance—is a testament to his journey and dedication to the arts.

"Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture," is produced and distributed by Merrick Studio and hosted by Merrick Chief Creative Officer, Tom Frank, hip hop artist and founder of Pendulum Ink, Mickey Factz, and music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to hear this thought-provoking discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @UnglossyPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://unglossypod.buzzsprout.com/

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week on Unglossy .

Speaker 2 (00:02):
We had Mack Wiles you know, Mack Wiles yep.
Legendary.
You know what I mean.
You know from the Wire to 90210, red Tails, you know, the list
goes on.
So in my mind we had anall-star cast, I think we had
the greatest ensembles everassembled on Broadway.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
From the top.
Yeah, I'm Tom Frank, I'm MickeyFax.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
And I'm Jeffrey Sledge.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Welcome to Unglossy decoding brand and culture.
I'm Tom Frank, partner andchief creative officer at Merit
Creative.
This is Mickey Fax, hip-hopartist and founder and CEO of
Pendulum Inc.
And that is Jeffrey Sledge, aseasoned music industry veteran
who has worked with some of thebiggest artists in the business.
We're here to explore themoments of vulnerability,
pivotal decisions and creativesparks that fuel the

(00:48):
relationship between brand andculture.
Get ready for thought-provokingjourney into the heart and soul
of branding the unscripted,unfiltered and truly unglossy
truth.
Meghan Markle now has a show.
Yeah, that is talking abouthomemaking.
Yes, you don't know about this?

Speaker 3 (01:06):
yes, you don't know about this?

Speaker 1 (01:06):
I don't know about this.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
She cooks on there and you know she has a garden
and all.
It's just like martha stewart,but that's bigger yeah, it's
huge, bigger than martha stewart, bigger bigger, it's huge pause
.

Speaker 4 (01:18):
So that's what that's .
When I saw the plant in theback, it reminded me of martha
stewart's plant in the back.
It reminded me of marthastewart's um segment called it's
a good thing, okay, and shewould go, you know, across the
country, I guess, finding outthings that work well for your
home.
My mom would watch it every youknow morning on sundays.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
You know your mom's probably watching megan markle
shit that show was megan markle.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
I still think of her as the uh the lawyer on uh, I'm
not she's way past that shit.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
That's over.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
I'm just watching it.
Right now, I'm finally watchingthis show.
What's it called?

Speaker 4 (01:51):
again.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
I'm blanking on Suits , suits, yeah, suits is a good
show, mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Nah, Meghan's lit.

Speaker 4 (01:58):
I've never seen Suits .
I've been watching Daredevil.
How was that daredevil?

Speaker 1 (02:06):
it's on netflix.
How is it?
Well, it's on disney, plusactually, a lot of cursing.
You mean the actual like series, not the movie the series yes
yeah, I've never seen the seriesseries is amazing.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
Yeah, yeah, it's a.
You know, I think tom wouldlike it.
It's you what you like, did you?
Watch invincible it's the firstseason I did.
Um, I gotta get into the secondand third season, mainly
because it's just me watching italone.
My wife does not want to it'sviolent.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
It's dope, though it's mad, it's violent it's a
cartoon violence oh, a cartoonviolent though like, but it's
ridiculous violence like I don'tknow if I want all that
violence in my life it's likemortal combat, but like
superheroes yeah, yeah, yeah,ripping spines out and all that

Speaker 4 (02:46):
type of shit ripping hearts out, yeah all that, yeah,
brains blowing up bloodeverything yeah, it's crazy is
it very, is it very theatric?

Speaker 1 (02:54):
yeah yeah, it actually is it's which leads me
into this week's guest, which,unfortunately, mickey, you were.
You were not here.
You're out heavily promotingyour new project, the dean's
list, volume one, volume one.

Speaker 4 (03:11):
Tell us about that uh , you know a couple of the
graduates um at pendulum inc.
You know we put a whole projecttogether wu-tang style, kind of
curated the entire thing.
And you know a lot of mcs andproducers send me beats so you
know I use those beats to putthis project out and everybody's
happy about it.
It did pretty well on thecharts, so I'm excited.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Now, is this an album or a mixtape?

Speaker 4 (03:34):
So, because of how quickly we did it it was really
a mixtape.
Not a lot of choruses on here,maybe about five or six, but we
did it so quickly.
We do have an album inproduction.
I'm just waiting on some bigcelebrity features to send in
their verses and then we'regoing to put that one out.
What?

Speaker 1 (03:50):
is.
That is that volume two no,it's called something completely
different, so this is that tolook forward to this.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
One's just bars people just spitting.

Speaker 4 (03:59):
This is yeah, yeah it's, it's some concept stuff,
but mostly it's bars, you know,just to get people involved.
But so talk to me about thepodcast episode that I've missed
.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
That you missed.
Well, I'll tell you what youwould have enjoyed this guest
knowledge of poetry, hip hop andcertainly comics.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
He started as a slam poet yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Really.
Yes, he started as a slam poet.
Yeah, really.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yes, he was like he was big in it, big in that world
.
He was looking forward tomeeting you.
He's a guy I actually metthrough Saint Really.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Saint came up in this conversation.
You came up in thisconversation.
He was a big fan.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
Couldn't wait to meet you I you up in this
conversation.
He was a big fan.
Yeah, couldn't, couldn't waitto meet you I.
You know I feel bad again.
We were scheduled for aspecific time and then that time
got moved at the last minuteand I was already in in the
thralls of something else thethralls yes, but I feel bad now.
This guy's, he, he's somebody Idon't want to say.
He was a fan, he was a supporter, yeah, he was a supporter I'm a

(05:06):
fan of his now I can tell youthat after listening to him,
yeah I mean, I think you becomea fan of everybody that we bring
up you know what?

Speaker 1 (05:13):
why not?
Yeah right, why not?
Why not love, it's nothingwrong it's nothing wrong with
that in my opinion, it's nothingwrong with that.
Why not nothing wrong?

Speaker 4 (05:23):
with that.
So what else did you guys?

Speaker 3 (05:24):
talk about.
We talked about.
You know his career he talkedabout because he wrote this play
called Thoughts of a Coloredman.
It was on Broadway.
It's a big play Really, but itgot cut short because of COVID.
They only had a three-month runand then Broadway shut down.
But they were getting a massivebuzz.

(05:46):
They had a big artist, angelaBassett, and people like that
came to the play Mary, it wasbubbling, it was going crazy.
I found out later because Ididn't realize that I actually
went to college with his dad,really.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
It was a wild episode .

Speaker 3 (06:05):
He connected us and stuff and we talked about dad
and yeah.

Speaker 4 (06:08):
Can we bring him back ?

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Well, I'll tell you.
I'll tell you anybody wholistens to this thing.
If you don't get anything outof it, do so for the
conversation about Broadway.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
I found it.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
I found it immensely informative.
Yeah, how Broadway, howway,actually works.
We're not gonna tell you,mickey, you gotta listen to the
episode to to thoroughlyunderstand it absolutely so
right before you know it'sinteresting and I know we're
gonna get right into this.

Speaker 4 (06:32):
I know the people are excited about this.
Right before the pandemic, lupeand I were working on a
broadway play together.
Really, what happened?
The pandemic?

Speaker 1 (06:41):
but I mean, I mean you could have finished it, you
could have continued it on, Iwish, uh.
But they just kind of dissolvedthe whole thing, like we were
working on at the armory thepandemic.

Speaker 4 (06:44):
But I mean you could have finished it.
You could have continued it on,I wish, but they just kind of
dissolved the whole thing Likewe were working at the Armory.
Do you know where the Armory is, jeff?
I think it's like on ParkAvenue and like 77th.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
I don't know that Armory.
I know the ones up in Harlem.
I know the Armory in Harlem andthe one in Washington Heights.

Speaker 4 (06:59):
I don't know the other one we were at the armory
and we were there with like twohuge Broadway screenwriters and
we were putting together this.
It was like this apartmentbuilding and every floor

(07:19):
represented a different person.
They had their own floor andevery person had their own style
.
So I was helping lupe kind ofput together how would this work
over specific beats.
And we were writing this stufftogether and then the pandemic
hit.
Like I still have pictures ofthe stuff.
I have like everything we wereworking.
This was going to be like amusical.
This was going to be a musicalon broadway.

(07:41):
We're working on it together.
I think we got to pick thisback up.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
I would love to pick it back up.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
We got the connections.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Now let's go, let's do it.
I'm in, I want to win.
What do we win for the greatestmusical ever, tony A Tony.

Speaker 4 (07:57):
A.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
Tony, get a Tony.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
I still want a Grammy , but I'll take a Tony.

Speaker 4 (08:01):
I'll take a Tony, I'll take anything at this point
.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Hey yo.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
Hey yo.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
On that note, let's dive in.
Playwright, poet, actor,director and producer, the
wildly talented Mr Kenan ScottII.
Unglossy is brought to you byMerrick Creative, looking to
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(08:45):
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Learn more at meritcreativecom.
And now back to the show.
Today's guest is Kenan Scott II.
Queens-born playwright, poet,actor, director and producer.
His work has electrified stagesfrom the National Black Theater
to Woolly Mammoth, culminatingin the Broadway run of Thoughts
of a Colored man at the GoldenTheater.
A 2021 TED Fellow and founderof Project Toy Entertainment,

(09:10):
keenan fuses childhood wonderwith fresh, thoughtful,
provoking storytelling acrosstheater, tv, film and more.
We are excited to explore hisremarkable journey, including
his upcoming musical the Returnof Youngboy, and discover how he
continues to push creativeboundaries on every stage.
Welcome to Unglossy, mr KenanScott.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
Pleasure how you feeling man.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
I'm good man, listen, I can't complain, just working.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
Rocking.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Rocking and rolling.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
So before we get started, fun fact, fun fact.
I went to college Morgan StateUniversity with Kenan's father.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah, I thought you were going to say with Kenan and
I was going to be like damn,kenan looks a lot younger than
you, Jeffery.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
No with Kenan's father, Kenan Sr.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Kenan Sr.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
In school we were pretty close.
I mean no disrespect to Kenan'smom, but Kenan's dad dated a
girl.
Oh God, here we go, kenan's daddated a girl that was oh God,
here we go.
Kenan's dad dated a girl thatwas very close, close friends
with a neighbor of mineLiterally lived across the hall.
So Kenan and this girl, whowill remain nameless because you

(10:16):
know, used to come like, be atme and my roommate's crib like
daily, hanging out, drinking,talking shit.
You know college shit.
You know college shit, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, keenan was
my guy man.
He said he passed away fairlyrecently but but I had lost
touch with him over the years.
And then I met keenan, thesecond via via saint, who you've

(10:38):
heard yeah, yes, yes and I'lltell that story.
But I didn't know the connection.
I just met this dude namedkeenan who wrote a play that was
about to open on Broadway.
I was like, oh bet.
He offered me tickets.
The girl was dating at the time.
I was like, bet, hell, yeah,I'm going to go.
I had no idea.
And then I don't even rememberhow I found out, but it was much
, much later.
It was like after I went tothat.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
The name was exactly the same.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
You know, it's New York, we've got the same name,
that's true.
That's true.
And then I was like wait aminute, what?
Oh no, I have a Morgan Stategroup chat and somebody in the
group chat said you know,keenan's son's doing a play.
And I was like wait, what's theplay called?
And it was like Thoughts of aColor man.
I was like I went to collegewith your father, fortunately

(11:29):
because, like I said, you know,sadly he passed away not long
ago, but fortunately Keenan IIput us in touch.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Ah, so you got to get back out, reach out, back out
to him.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah, I got to talk to him and catch up.
We had a long conversation, man, it was a blessing.
It was absolutely a blessing.
It was absolutely a blessingand you know I have a
relationship with his son whoI'm very, you know, proud of and
happy for.
But I'm really glad that I gotto talk to Keenan Sr Because,
like I said, we had this.
You know it was no beef withjust college.

(11:58):
You know you just go this way,that way, you just kind of lose
touch, and I was, you know.
So we got to catch up and I wasreally appreciative of that.
We had like a two-hourconversation.
We talked for a long time man.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Good yeah, it wasn't supposed to happen that way.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
Then you know it was.
It was.
It was.
Yes, I had went to the studio.
Saint told me to come to thestudio.
He was working with A$AP Ferg atthe time Saint invited me to
the studio session Exactly, butwe didn't know we were going to
be there.
We was all in the studio, wekind of talked.
Then he was like, yeah, it'sjust opening up.

(12:32):
Yeah, I called him.
He's like yeah, I got you twotickets, man, come on down.
And the shit the first one toplay was phenomenal, which we
get into, and it was like it's abig deal, like it was on.
It is a big, it is a very bigdeal like it was backed by some
really big producers, like itwas a really big, but I'm taking
, I'm, I'm taking, I'm talkingtoo much.
Let's start from the beginning.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
Let's, let's go back to Queens.
Right, you're from Queens.
How does a guy from Queens likewhere's the passion for
storytelling?
Where did that start?

Speaker 2 (13:00):
You know it's definitely been a journey.
So you know, born and raised inQueens, you know my family's
from South Jamaica.
I grew up, went to school inFlushing.
So you know that was like theorigin of it all, right?
Actually, my first love in lifeis visual arts.
I wanted to go off and do likeanimation and I wanted to like
draw comic books and that's whatI wanted to do.

(13:21):
That was like my lifelong dream, right?
So then, eventually, after myparents separated, we ended up
moving down to Maryland, outsideof DC.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
We're at Maryland now .
I'm in Maryland right now.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
Waldorf.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
Ah, not far.
I'm in Annapolis right now.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I'm very familiar, so you're close
to like Bowie, right?

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, absolutely Real close to Bowie yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
So you know, by high school, high school age, I'm
down in Maryland.
You know, heavy in sports, youknow what I mean.
Playing football, basketball,took basketball very serious,
didn't really wasn't a performer, didn't consider myself a
performer, and I started gettinginto poetry, just you know,
just to myself.
You know what I mean.
Something you know journalingkept it to myself big love of
hip hop, big hip hop head, myfather originally being from the

(14:03):
South Bronx.
So having having it beinghanded to me in that way, that's
right.
He was from the Bronx, that'sright.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, east Tremont.
So I took that very serious.
You know what I mean.
So, honestly, you know, it kindof.
It kind of came to me in an oddway at the time.
I'm 15 years old.
My sister, my older sister,she's 18.

(14:23):
So she got a boyfriend that'sinto poetry and you know he's
scared to go to DC by himselfand go to the open mics.
So he would see me, so he wouldsee me writing around the crib.
You know what I mean.
And he was like, hey, um, youknow, would you want to go to
the club with me?
You know I want to do this openmic thing and honestly, I just
wanted to hang out.
You know what I mean.
I'm like I forgot my poem.
200 people.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
And.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
I was like yo, I'm never doing this shit again,
never doing this again.
But you know me being a ballplayer, me being super

(15:02):
competitive, I'm like you knowwhat.
Let me go back one more time,let me redeem myself, and then
I'll be good.
You know, then I'll lay it torest and I'll never forget the
feeling of going back andredeeming myself.
I had studied for severalmonths.
I was like, all right, I got toget better, you know, started
picking up some more literature.
That's around the time Idiscovered, like Nikki, giovanni
Langston Hughes and this is atthe same time that it was like

(15:24):
still black market at the time,but I had got my hands on Smack
DVD at the time, but I had gotmy hands on.
Smack DVD at the time, so thatwas new when I was in high
school.

Speaker 4 (15:32):
So that was like you know, and that's when I first
came across.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Murder Mook Me and him about like a year apart, you
know pretty much the same ageand I'm like yo.
Who is this young kid battlingat this level?
I've never seen, never heard.
You know, in the projects inNew York.
You know I'm familiar and I'mlike yo, that's dope, so I
studied it.
I studied that same time.
New show, deaf Poetry Jam isnew at the time.

(15:58):
Now I go, I go out to my VHSstore right and I get the tapes
and now I'm studying.
So I'm studying undergroundbattle rap and you know the guys
from Jersey, you know the cityPhilly guys.
I'm studying deaf poetry jam.
So now, when I go back to theclub, now, now I kill it, I go
back.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
So how long of a time between when you, when you,
messed up until you went backand killed it?

Speaker 2 (16:28):
So I was 15.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
It was the fall, so my, my birthday is actually
March, so I probably went awayfor about five, five to six
months, so you got serious aboutthis work, yeah, so by the time
I went back I had just turned16 and they went crazy, and I
never forget the response tothat.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
And then everybody was so surprised at how young I
was.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
So I was sneaking into these clubs.
I wasn't, you know, I wasn'teven supposed to be in these
clubs that I was competing in,and I never forget, you know.
You know, no facial hair, babyface, the whole nine.
They're like yo, where'd you,where'd you?
I sound different Cause I'mcoming from New York and now I'm
in DC.
So now it's like where did youcome from?
How do you, how were you doingthis?
And I never forget that feeling.
And then I started going backand that's when I fell into the

(17:04):
underground poetry slam poetryscene in DC Wow.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
So how did?
How do you go from theunderground poetry to a Broadway
?
I mean a Broadway show.
I mean we're not talking that'shuge.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Tell me about it.
Um, you know it's, it's.
You know the Trump cake, thejourney, you know.
So now, now I'm competing forseveral years, Right, so now,
anywhere that, let me in.
So now I'm, I'm, I created aname for myself in DC, so now
it's like oh, let the young kidin.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
You popping, now you popping.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, so let the young kid in you know I wasn't
drinking or anything like thatyet.
So they was like, hey, stayaway from the bar, we'll let you
.
I'm like, listen, I'm just hereto compete.
You know, I wanted my own CDsselling them for $5 at the end,
just doing my thing.

(17:57):
And it kept me out the streets.
I was like, if I'm doing thislegally and this feels good, I'm
going to stay here Because Iknew what the streets really was
, With members of my family andfriends and all that.
I wanted to stay clear of that.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
So is this more of a rap thing?

Speaker 2 (18:16):
or is it more poetry?
I don't think I've ever been toone of these it's kind of like
a combo of the two poetry, butit's kind of it's the same
energy, it's the same.
Yeah, it's aggressive poetry isdifferent, like you know, like
some open mics, like people readout of a journal yeah and the
cliches, but like that's whatI'm picturing.
Slam poetry is you're, you're,you're, you're judged by judges
in the crowd.
You're competing against people.
So I might not be personallytalking about you, but I'm

(18:37):
trying to outperform you.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Got it.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
So it's so, it's very so, since it's competitive.
It has that energy.
It's very similar.
A lot of a lot of battle.
Mcs are actual poets as well,so people go between the two.
So I do both as well.
But when I was competing, I wasdoing slam poetry, so I did
that for several years Now.
it was time for college and Ididn't want to go because I just

(19:00):
told my mother, like yo, I'mtrying to move back to New York,
I'm trying to audition andbecome Denzel, like in two weeks
I'm good Right, that quitedidn't happen.
You know, and I never forget Imoved.
You know and I never forget Imoved.
You know I came back to newyork over that summer.
My father drove me around toauto auditions and, um, I didn't
make it into any schools.
I fell on my face.
schools was like you too green,you know, go away get some

(19:21):
acting training and come back tous later, because I was going
to like these big conservatories, right.
So so then, like so my mother's.
Like.
You're not staying home, you'renot working, you're getting out
the house, call, call.
Whatever that little school wasthat accepted you, you're going
to that school.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Call them back, yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
And it was Frostburg State University.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
I know Frostburg well too.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, so that's my alma mater.
Had the time of my life, if youknow, it was definitely big on
parties.
Yes going parties.
So I went away to school and,honestly, what kept me there was
I was like all right, cool,what will keep me in school?
That I won't drop out, becauseif I did a business major or
something I would have got boredand didn't want to continue.

(20:01):
So I was like, cool, I'mperforming heavy, I definitely
want to get into TV and filmacting and break into the
industry that way and show themthat I can write as well.
So somebody was like, hey, ifyou want to act for TV and film,
you got to do theater.
So I was like, all right, cool,I'll study theater.
Never, never, thought abouttheater, never, no interest.
I was like, all right, if it'sgoing, if it's going to get me

(20:21):
better on stage, then I'll do it.
So I went to school to studyacting.
So while I'm there, you knowand a lot of people think
because of you, know what I'veachieved in playwriting that I
never went to school for writing, I never taken a writing class
before for screenwriting orplaywriting or anything, and I
just, you know, put in my 10,000hours, I would say.
But as I was in school studyingtheater, I started getting put

(20:42):
these plays in front of me thatI just didn't relate to, I
didn't see myself, I didn't seemy community.
It was like these great Americandramas, but I'm like you know
where the black folk at you knowyeah.
So honestly to me you know mecoming from New York by way of
Southern Maryland I had a homiein my program that was from DC,
another one was from Baltimoreand I was like listen, I'm going

(21:02):
to write us some monologues sowe can have some stuff that we
can audition with that.
We don't got to change who weare.
We don't got to change who wetalk.
I'm going to write some stufffor us, and that small idea was
the start of Thoughts of aColored man.
I started writing when I was 19years old, when I was at
undergrad.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
Now, how long did it take you, from 19 to get it to
the point where it was ready tobe shown on Broadway?
How many years did you kind ofhave to do?

Speaker 2 (21:24):
many iterations From that many, many, I'm sure, I'm
sure.
From from that point toinception to Broadway was
actually like 17 years.
Wow, 17 years in between thattime I produced it on my, my
campus two years later.
So at what 2021?

(21:45):
As my senior project?
I was like, hey, can I do thisplay?
I've been writing the theaterdepartment's like cool, you can
have the black box for a coupleof days, and this is the point
that honestly changed my career.
I really, you know, at the timeI thought it was ready, A lot
had changed, but the firstincarnation it was two years I
had been working on it.
Only my college roommates knewabout it, you know what I mean,

(22:06):
and they gave me the theater andI had no resources, they was
like yeah, we'll give you thetheater.
You know, this wasn't in abudget, we're doing our own
thing, you know, whatever.
So and I didn't have enoughblack men in my department to do
the play, to play all thecharacters.
Because at any given time in mytheater program there might've
been three black men, includingmyself.
So that's when I startedputting on hats out of necessity

(22:30):
, like, all right, cool, now Igot to enlist my friends in the
cast, right?
So now I'm an acting coach.
All right, cool, I need topromote it.
All right, how do I get money?
Let me go to all the studentorganizations.
Let me go to the Divine Nine.
I did shows for all of them.
I opened up for all of them.
Now it's time for you know,let's see if they got a little

(22:56):
money for me.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
So I started raising money on campus I raised like
maybe $900 at the time, but nownot knowing at the time, but now
I'm producing, because now I'mraising, yeah, what I've been
realizing it.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
So I'm wearing all of these hats out of necessity.
There's nobody to, you know,bring my vision to life.
So now I turn into a director.
That was my first time reallydirecting, so all of these
things kind of happened.
And then once that at the timeI was very much so studying the
works of David E Talbert andTyler Perry.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
Sidebar sidebar David Talbert went to Morgan with us.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Morgan with y'all as well, correct, he was a friend
of ours.
He was a friend of ours on theyard.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
All world here, all world, y'all who?

Speaker 1 (23:27):
knew, it all started at Morgan State.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
It did world who knew it all started at morgan state
it did.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
It's a lot, it's a lot of greatness there, yeah,
yeah.
So I'm studying those guys.
I'm like all right cool, maybeI can do what they did right,
maybe I can start in theater,you know, kind of like you know,
raise the funds and it kind ofyou know, so I can own all of my
own work.
So really that's how I started.
So at the time I really wasn'tthinking broadway.
I was thinking I'm trying to dowhat tyler, I'm trying to get
my own money up and I'm tryingto go get joint ventures, kind
of like what he did withLionsgate.

(23:54):
So that's really the path I wasfollowing.
So after college I was justrenting out theaters and
producing my own workindependently.
I would sell out shows, I wouldflip the money into my next
show, I would borrow money fromfamily, friends, turn them into
investors, sell credit cards,and I did that for many, many
years.
So now, at this time, I'm backin New York and really the word

(24:15):
starts catching on that I'm, youknow that I'm doing.
I'm doing these little showsRight Cause to them it was like
you know you really not doing itat any you know notable
theaters.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
And so my name is like in the community rooms and
like you know, whatever churchchurch.
Church name it name it.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
I was there, you know .
So, so, yeah, so, so that'swhat kind of so?
In between that, while you know, I'm an educator, so I was
teaching, I was substitutingname, name a job, I did it
retail, you know the whole nineand no 17 years.
You know, then I would sayaround 17, 2017, my name started

(24:52):
catching on in the city fromall the work I was doing started
snowballing, linked up with,you know, a producer.
We set forth a plan that, hey,we think we can get this to
Broadway.
Finally, and finally, you know,went out of town, went to
Baltimore, went to Syracuse,kind of launched that like an
out of town tryout.
We got the verbal, we got theverbal commitment from Broadway

(25:12):
that we'll get a theater andwe'll be able to premiere in
2020.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
So who actually does that?
Who says you're going to be onBroadway?
Is it a group or how does thatwork?

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Well, the Broadway theaters are owned by three
different families.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
So essentially they operate like landlords.

Speaker 3 (25:29):
What are the three families?

Speaker 2 (25:31):
The Schuberts.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
The Nederlanders and the Jujanssons.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
They got it on.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
Smash.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
Say that again.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
They got it on Smash.
You got to go through one ofthem.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
One of them controls all of Broadway.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Correct, correct so if you ever look on your ticket.
Stub, if you ever look at theprogram.
You'll see.
You'll see Nederlanders, you'llsee Schubert, you'll see their
logo.
So you know, of course theyhave teams and foundations and
all yeah.
So they're the ones that sayyay and nay to you pretty much,
because essentially people don'tsee it like this.
But you're renting thatBroadway house.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
You just rent it for a whole lot of money, you know
so when you say renting it like,break that down, what does that
mean?
When you say you're renting ahouse, so essentially right.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
So I want to say there's about 41 Broadway
theaters.
Of course some of them are notchanging their shows out.
Lion King's not going away,hamilton, the Wicked's, you know
move out, they just stayconstant.
Yeah, because the thing isunlike regional theater outside
of New York there's a schedule.
Hey, your play can only run forfive weeks, that's it.

(26:35):
The next one's coming in.
We have a season of six, butBroadway, once again, you're a
tenant.
So if my tenant is stillgetting money ie Lion King,
wicked you're not going anywhere, like it stays, and then other
plays rotate.
Some plays come for a limitedengagement, like denzel right
now.
Denzel's only going to be therefor 12 weeks, that's with their
fellow joint yeah, with afellow that that's limited.

(26:57):
We know denzel's not going to beon broadway for five years
consecutively right yeah, he'sgoing to do his time, so, so
it's like a rotating schedule.
So essentially you knoweverybody's vying for those
spots, so it's like, well,essentially you have to at it
Like what tenant is going toyield me the most back?

Speaker 4 (27:13):
So you know I can.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
I can get a theater right, but let's just say, for
example, beyonce says she wantsto come to Broadway tomorrow.
Who's who's going to get thatspot?

Speaker 1 (27:23):
You are gone.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Well, so so, so that's what makes it so hard.
That's what I mean.
So so, so, normally, sonormally, essentially high
levels of finance, butessentially you're renting the
Broadway house, so are youphysically renting it, though?

Speaker 1 (27:37):
If you don't mind me asking what is the breakdown?
How does that work?
Are you paying to be in there,or are they taking a chance on
you and you guys are splittingthe profit, or how does that all
work?

Speaker 2 (27:50):
No, no, you have to pay, just like rent you have to.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
you have so you physically are paying rent okay
and then of course everybody'sdeals a difference.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
But you know, out of a pie everybody's split goes
with, goes where it does afterthat oh okay, so pretty much I
didn't know any of this yeah,yeah.
So part parts of the pie, youknow, of course, go back to
running costs.
It goes back to the theaterbecause it got to keep the
lights on, okay you know, otherthan the other piece of the pie,
of course go back to runningcosts.
It goes back to the theaterbecause it's got to keep the
lights on, okay, and the otherpiece of the pie goes down to
the whole producers, investors,creative team Actors and all of

(28:18):
that stuff.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah, wow, that's really interesting.
I had no idea how it worked.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, correct.
So that's why it's alsoeverybody's vying for a spot.
That's what makes it hard, likeyou know, everybody can have a
great play.
You know you can have greatpersonnel.
Everybody can get an a-liststar in their piece.
You know which is the name ofthe game.
So it's really about you knowwho has the best opportunity to
do the best, you know, forticket sales.
And of course come a war season, so how?

Speaker 3 (28:44):
good, you didn't, if I remember correctly.
If I'm wrong, you didn't havean a-list star in the play.
You had great, great, greatactors in the play, but it
wasn't like a, like I said, likea Denzel or like a Sam Jackson
or something like that.
So how did you get this?
How did you get that?
How did you get the deal?
Well, made them choose you togive you the theater on, give

(29:04):
you the shot to put your play onBroadway.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
You know like I tell anybody for Broadway, so many
stars have to align.

Speaker 4 (29:11):
You know what I?

Speaker 2 (29:12):
mean it's your producorial team.
Of course it starts with thescript, the story, the personnel
scheduling and things of thatnature, so it's not one thing
per se.
I think over the years I thinkbroadway has leaned into more of
like the a-list kind of likemaking sure that like an a-list
name is on the marquee.
That doesn't always have to bethe case, and I just think we

(29:33):
had.
We had a great ensemble, we hada great story, we did great out
of town and we kind of wentthrough the you know the
development that everybody hasto go through and, uh, the stars
just aligned for us when, whenthey did wow yeah so was there?

Speaker 1 (29:46):
like, I mean, this was obviously your first
appearance on broadway with this, so was there I mean, was there
a learning curve, like what didyou, what didn't you know going
into it?
That you're like looking backat it, you're like you're gonna
do better, right?

Speaker 2 (30:00):
now everything okay no, for for me, you know, um, I
pride myself on business as anartist.
I always knew I wanted tosupport myself and my family off
my art.
So I knew very early on that Ihad to have a certain level of
business acumen.
So for me, being an independentartist, I knew that game right.
You know, clearly I wasn'tdealing with the same budgets,

(30:20):
you know I wasn't dealing withmillions of dollars, like
Broadway is.
But I knew what it was to havea team, you know, to have a
creative team to be able to rentout theater spaces for a
certain amount of time, to beable to set ticket prices at a
certain price, to be able to seea profit and all of those
things.
I understood that doesn'tchange.
The numbers change, vastlychange, but how to execute it

(30:42):
really doesn't change.
So really there was a biglearning curve change, but how
to execute it really doesn'tchange.
So really there was a biglearning curve.
There was a big learning curvelearning about all the moving
pieces in Broadway, how itworked, the unions, the Broadway
houses, who owns them, thedevelopmental track that a lot
of these pieces go, a lot oftimes, you know, to your average
ticket.
You know theater goer, youbuying a ticket, you go into a
show not realizing that show hadto make.
It had to go to the UK first tobuild momentum, then it had to

(31:04):
go to Berkeley or it had to goto another, another state for a
tryout to test things out.
You know, to just like anythingRight, like when TV shows have
like audience tests, you knowtheaters, we have to do the same
thing.
We have to go out of town.
We have to make sure we get agood response, maybe some good
reviews from from out of-townpapers, before the times kind of

(31:25):
stamp you when you get into thecity.
So all of those things you haveto do before you come back into
the city.
So it's like a whole journey.
Usually.
Typically they say it's aboutsix to seven years average to
get your piece to Broadway fromthe inception plan to get there.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
It's what reminds me of in my mind of the music
business.
You were an indie label itreminds me of in my mind of the
music business.
You were an indie label and youput out some records and they
started to catch a little buzz.
They started to sell to thepoint where a major label, which
is the theaters and Broadway,decided to pick you up and give
you a shot and give you aventure.
It's very similar.
There's a lot of differences,but the process of it is the

(32:02):
same as like a TDE just puttingout kind of records and they
catch a little buzz and all of asudden they get Interscope
gives them a deal and all of asudden Kendrick blows up.
It's kind of a similar kind ofpath.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
It's similar.
It's like even, if you notice,like one of the biggest names in
Broadway, clearly.
But Lin-Manuel Miranda, what hejust did with the Warriors
concept album Right did with theWarriors concept album right A
lot of times musicals.
They'll do that.
That's just testing out howpeople are going to feel it,
right.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
It's like, oh, let's put out-.
So they did the music first.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Exactly.
Let's put out this wholeconcept album, let's see how
people respond to it, let's workout the kinks, let's build the
fandom around it so by the timewe get it to stage, it's going
to have a built-in audience ofpeople, people can't wait yeah.
They can sing along when theysit in the audience.
So it's a lot of similaritiesto the music industry and for me
that's how I learned it alittle different, right, Like I
was already studying the TV andfilm industry.

(32:50):
You know, very early on Iactually wanted to get into the
music industry first.
You know what I mean.
So I was already studying, youknow, have partners that have
made it into the industry andthings of that nature.
So there is some overlap whenit comes down to the business
and how to execute on the vision, Because we all know it all
comes down to the bottom line.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Oh, sidebar, lin-manuel Miranda was my
neighbor.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
I thought you were going to say he went to Morgan
State as well.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
I was his neighbor because he grew up in a
neighborhood.
I used to live in WashingtonHeights area.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Washington Heights is great.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
I used to work up there, yeah yeah, yeah, lin is
genius area Washington Heightsis great, I used to work up
there.
Lynn is genius.
Lynn lives on Cabrini.
I live on Overlook.
Every night again I bump in youjust kind of see him.
He still lives up there becausenobody bothers him up there.
He's just a regular dude upthere.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
He was born and raised.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
He's from the neighborhood.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
He's born and raised.
He can go to the store, he cango to the park Nobody's tripping
on him, so he never.
I heard he said he's nevergoing to leave that area because
he can live a normal life andraise his family regularly up
there.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
That's kind of like Spike with Brooklyn, right Like
you know, his office has been aFort Greene for what?
30, 30 years, 30 plus years.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
So yeah, yeah, normal he can go to the park, ain't
nobody bothering him and hiskids.
Anyway, tom, what were yougoing to say?

Speaker 1 (34:06):
I have one last question about the Broadway, the
actors.
Are they the same actors thatyou used throughout?
When you get to Broadway, is ita whole new show, a whole new
batch of actors?

Speaker 2 (34:19):
It depends on the situation.
It depends on the situation.
My particular play is veryunique in its journey that I was
doing it independently.
So in the 17 years I was doingit, you know 100 actors have
come through the piece.
But depending on the situation,depending on the business and
who your personnel, yourcreative team is, the closer you

(34:41):
get to Broadway, the closer youget to the actual team.
You have A little bit ofoverlap from my regional runs,
which is commercial, so not tocount all my independent stuff,
because that was just me on myindependent grind.
But to count my actual Broadwayjourney, which we was at
commercial theaters, I would saythere was a little bit of
overlap of some people that webrought from when we was out of
New York that we brought intoBroadway, but I would say the

(35:03):
cast was about 70% new once wegot to Broadway.
Two, two guys, two guys camealong and really it just comes
down.
It just comes down to schedules.
You know I was blessed.
I think you know a lot of timesit's unfortunate that.
You know Black actors andcreatives are viewed differently
.
You know my cast was filledwith guys that were on number

(35:23):
one TV shows.
You know what I mean.
Luke James is three timesGrammy nominated.
You know we had Da Vinci, whichwe premiered the same month
that BMF did.
You know what I mean Number oneTV show.
We had Mack Wiles you know,legendary.
You know what I mean.
You know, from the Wire to90210, red tails, you know, the

(35:47):
list goes on.
So in my mind we had anall-star cast, I think we had
the greatest ensembles everassembled on bro.
he was to ask me um, but it wasschedules.
We talked to a lot of differentpeople who ended up in a room
was supposed to, because,between me and my director, what
was very important for us waswe knew we had the opportunity
to get a great array of talent.

(36:08):
Right, it's Broadway.
That's a lot of other people'sdreams just as well as it was
mine, right?
So the talent was going to bethere.
We really just wanted goodspirited human beings that was
going to leave their ego at thedoor, because Thoughts of a
Colored man was a type of piecewhere it's not star driven, it's
ensemble.
Everybody's equal, everybodyalmost has the same amount of
time on stage.
So we needed guys thatunderstood that mission and if

(36:30):
we all came together for thatbelief that we was going to do
great.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
How long did it run on Broadway?

Speaker 2 (36:36):
It ran for three months.
Unfortunately, we got hit withCOVID.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
You're right before COVID.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
So we had to shut down.
Honestly, out of all the newplays on Broadway, we was the
highest grossing when we had toshut down.
We was doing tremendous,tremendous.
So our run was supposed to besix months.
We ended up running for three.
When the Omicron variant hadcame out, it had wiped through
the cast.
I actually stepped in cast.
I actually was on stage onenight, which was great to be

(37:01):
able to be up there with theguys before we shut down so I
was able to step on stage withthem.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
That's cool.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
A Broadway acting debut as well.

Speaker 4 (37:07):
And we'll be right back.
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Speaker 1 (37:28):
And now back to the show.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
I got COVID when I went to the play.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
See, yeah, it was crazy, it was very hard.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
It was a tough time to grow, yeah it was a tough
time because it was like primetime COVID.
I was in the audience coughing,trying to cover my mouth.
People were looking at me funnyyou off and trying to cover my
mouth.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
People were looking at me funny.
You were that guy.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
Yeah, I was that guy, you put me to reason.
You know, yeah, but the playwas phenomenal, thank you, thank
you.
Lying down the street, all thetop critics would come in, oprah
, and them would come in.
It was a monster, it was crazy.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, man, listen, the list goes on.
It blew my mind.
I'm a fan of all these people.
I grew up watching people thatwas coming to the play which was
beyond me.
But yes, it will come back ofcourse in all hopes of a revival
.
Um, it's been four years now,which I don't know where that
time went, but it's been fouryears already and the beautiful
thing is um, the plays arelicensing now, so it's being
done all around the us as wespeak.

(38:19):
So good wow, a show in memphisopens up tomorrow, so I'll be
flying down there pretty soon tosee that show.
So we've been in multiplecities and schools and colleges
since we left.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
How's that feel to like?
You're going to go to Memphis.
You don't really have a part ofit per se, but to go to go
there and see somebody put yourvision to life, that's gotta be
an incredible feeling.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
It's insane.
Yeah, it's insane.
You know what I mean.
You know you don't think aboutlicensing.
Right, like we all.
We go to plays, we see things,but not realizing, like when we
go to shakespeare, shakespeareis done, thousands and thousands
of times right.
So to think that I'm in thelore of people wanting to do my
work, it's it blows my mind, youknow, seeing experiences that I
had in queens in southernmaryland.

(39:02):
Now somebody, somebody inMemphis, is going to do it.

Speaker 4 (39:05):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
And I see the guys.
I still remember my collegeroommates that were in the
original cast back in 2009.
You know what I mean.
So I still see my friends.
I see my father.
I see my grandfather up thereon stage.
I see my uncle.
It's really mind blowingbecause I really that just was
not the intention or the thoughtthat that that me, from where I

(39:26):
come from, that I would, Iwould ever get to Broadway.
You, just as a New Yorker, youdon't think about that stuff
it's like oh, I don't.
I don't sing and dance.
I you know I'm probably nevergoing to make a Lion King.
You know Broadway's not for me,right yeah you don't think
about that.
You might get lucky as a kid togo to Broadway for a field trip
or something like that.
You don't.
You don't think about that.
You might get lucky as a kid togo to Broadway for a field trip
or something like that.
You don't.
You don't think about that fromthe communities we come from.

(39:46):
So just just to be able to bein this space and, more
importantly, to be able to havecreated something that gives
other young black menopportunities to see themselves
reflected is very important tome, because that was my goal as
an undergrad when I just said tomy friends hey, I'll write you
a monologue that you can do,don't worry about it.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
So, friends, hey, I'll write you a monologue that
you can do, don't worry about it.
So, to see that it's kind oftranscended, what a story.
But that the ethos of oftheater is, is is beyond me and
I'm and to your point, like innew york, like you said, we
don't and this is a school playor something we don't usually do
broadway.
So when a play like yours comesout, like all the black folks
come out because it's likefinally, something's on on
Broadway for us, Authentically.
Authentically for us.
So like that one we're puffed,they're raising his son.

(40:31):
It was kind of the same Like wewent.
We went because like that's theone time that not to not to
roughen up feathers, but it'slike we go see cats or like you
said, see cats, or like you said, or one of the death of a
salesman.
Right, it's almost like you inthat theater, feeling like an
outsider, kind of like like I'mhere but I know this wasn't
really written for me.

(40:51):
I know it's a great piece ofart, so I'm gonna watch this
great piece of art, but I knownothing really is relatable to
me besides the art of it ingeneral.
But when some play like, like,like yours, like those little
color man comes out I'm watchingit like, and I'm sure everybody
else who went to see waswatching like, like you said, oh
, I know that guy.
Yeah, like I don't know thatguy.

(41:12):
I don't know the actor, but Iknow that guy you know, that
person, that that's like myuncle, like you said, that's
like my father, that's like mybrother, that's like my cousin,
my college roommate or whateverit is.
So it's a whole kind ofdifferent connection.
So that play coming to Broadwayand doing what it did before
COVID sadly got in the way, wasvery important.
I don't want to under stressenough how important that play

(41:35):
was to black New York.
It was very important forpeople to come out and see that.
I'll ask one more question.
So was there anybody who cameto see it that you got like
superstars, came out Like ohshit, they go, blah, blah, blah,
blah.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Oh my God, there's a couple.
So so Angela Bassett, me and mywife was able to take a picture
with Angela Bassett, which wascrazy.
Anna Wintour came she was thereopening night.
Felicia Rashad so those are thethree.
That was just mind-blowing.
A lot of times when I seepeople, even if I'm a fan, I'm

(42:12):
like I got that energy, like,hey, I want to work, let's work.
But when you got Angela Bassettsitting in the audience, it's-.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
That's crazy, it's insane, that's crazy, it is
that's insane.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
So, absolutely so.
Those are the three that cometo mind.
There was many, many others,not to overlook anybody else.
Mary J Blige came.
I listened to her since I was akid, you know what I mean.
It's just so many names, man.
It really was a time and I'mreally humbled by it all.
I really am.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
Wow, wow.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
That?
That's amazing, yeah, that'samazing.
So tell us about then.
Project Toys Entertainment.
Is that birth from that, or hasthat always been kind of your
company to harness all of this?
So I've had a few companiesover the years.
You know trial and error, youknow you start some things and
you know so this, this is, thisis my new brand.
I actually started in in 2020.
So around the same time.
So really, I just wanted tohave a space and a company that
encompassed all the things thatI love, right?
So, outside of you know theater, tv and film.

(43:13):
You know my love for passionand fine fashion and fine art
and visual art.
I really wanted to create kindof like a creative art studio
that will soon be the hub of allthe things that I love, like a
creative art studio that willsoon be the hub of all the
things that I love.
And me, I'm very producorial inmy thinking and I love being
able to put other people inpositions.
So you know, I want to have ateam of directors and writers

(43:38):
and other artists andlike-minded people to be able to
just create great work just toput out to the people.
You know, sometimes I don'twant to write everything.
Sometimes I just want to sitback and produce and put the
pieces together.
Sometimes I say, hey, I want towrite and act in this one.
You know, sometimes I just wantto direct.
So, really, I just wanted tocreate a brand that really just
encompassed all those things.
And me being a lover of so manydifferent mediums, I'm always
seeing how I can blur the linesof what I do.

(44:00):
Right, you know, far as manyyears ago, it's more commonplace
now.
You know, far as many years ago.
It's more commonplace now.
But when I first startedindependently doing my work, you
know, I had a merchandisecompany in 2009.
Right, you know, I had thisidea like it's cool to go to
plays.
You slap the logo on the shirt.
It's like, hey, I went to thisgreat play.
But you know me thinking andloving hip hop, streetwear and

(44:22):
you know, coming from the era of, you know, the food booze and
the Sean Johns and the fat farmsand the Walker wears and you
know, you name it I was like,well, what if I created clothes
that, yes, it's inspired by theplay, but what if you wanted to
wear it outside of the?
You know what if you just woreit just because it was a dope

(44:44):
shirt or dope hoodie, and youmight not even know it was from
a play, right.
So just thinking in that way,to where, you know, why can't I
have a soundtrack for my play?
Movies have soundtracks, youknow.
Why can't you know there mightbe playing, you know music in a
play, but why can't I come upwith an EP that's inspired by
the play and that can serve as asoundtrack?
You know, that might not becommonplace in theater, but I
know it is in film.
So, just so, I want to have acompany that kind of like.

(45:06):
You know, all the hands kind ofwash each other, you know.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
That kind of commonplace.
In theater, I mean Lin hadHamilton.
You know what I'm saying.
So I mean yours was in amusical, but you know it does
happen.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
You can have a soundtrack?

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
You know, and, like you said,you know I am working on a
musical but, yeah, just seeinghow I can blend all of those
worlds and really just comesback to all the things I love,
you know, and being able tocreate a production company
where myself and others canreally just fully flourish in
the arts.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
And how's it been going so far?
So you started it in 2021, yousaid 2020.
2020, yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
It's going great.
This is the year that I kind ofreally like launch, like with
more branding, so I have myhands in.
I have a couple of commercialprojects that I'm that I'm
producing my new solo showthat's coming of the musical
that you mentioned.
I have a documentary that I'malso producing because that's
really my goal to to be able tohave my production company in

(46:02):
those credits when you see mymusic I there you go.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
I gotta give you props, because I never heard the
word producer, was it?

Speaker 2 (46:09):
we say producerial, producerial yeah, I never heard
that before.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
So props for that.
I'm gonna start using that.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
You're gonna take that from him, aren't you?

Speaker 3 (46:17):
I'm running with that .

Speaker 1 (46:18):
I'm running with that now, before we get to the new
musical which I want to hearabout, yeah, yeah, I I gotta ask
you about the ted fellowship,because that fellowship, because
that's kind of interesting tome, how did that come about?

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Blew my mind.
One of my Broadway producers,bless her heart, diana Domenna.
She nominated me for it.
For those who don't know, as weall know, we've all watched the
TED talk before.
I've watched many.
There's hundreds of them, butthey have a sector called the
TED fellows.
So essentially it's a communitykind of like a fraternity kind
of that they've created insideof Ted where they get people

(46:49):
that are budding or just on acusp of doing really, really
great things in their career andkind of really have a mission
to kind of change their part ofthe world right.
So, where they give youresources, they have cohorts
every year, very, very eclectic,the most eclectic, most
international thing.
Trust me when I tell you I'veever been a part of and really
to provide you resources, rightLike PR, they try to connect you

(47:11):
with other resources in yourfield, with other people.
You're automatically connectedto all the TED fellows that came
before you.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
That's cool.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
There was a TED fellow five years ago that was
in theater.
They would connect us so to seeif that we can work, and then,
of course, a part of that, theyall allow us to do a TED talk in
our field.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
So how big is that fellowship?
How many people are?
How many active fellows arethere?

Speaker 2 (47:32):
Oh, I think my class brought us over.
I want to say 500.
Cause it's been going on, Ithink between 15 and 20 years,
don't get me wrong.
They just actually entered thenew class.
The new class is very small.
My cohort was around 20.

(47:52):
It was 25 of us, so, just so,just to say it's about 25 every
year, ok, in every class.
So they called us the COVIDcohort because mine was 2021.
So but beautiful people, man,like it's really mind blowing
that.
I think that's the first time Iever felt imposter syndrome,
like why am I here?
I'm the guy that writes plays,but there's people in my class
that was times top 100 people inthe world, like

(48:14):
photojournalists and all overthe world.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
All over the world, every kind of profession.
Do you ever come togetherphysically or is it we have, we
have.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
Some of us, so if we travel to each other's cities or
states some of us are overseasthey might hit us up like hey,
I'm in town, we all weretogether.
I went to the TED conference in22.
So a lot of us were able tomeet physically there.
Some of us gave out talks.
Some of us gave talks in otherplaces Like I didn't mind, here
in New York with BBCG BostonConsulting Group, that's what I

(48:46):
do, okay, yeah.
But yeah, so some of us do,depending on where we're at in
the world.
Literally we do all convene.
We have an app that we stayconnected in LinkedIn groups and
all those good things, so weabsolutely all do talk.

Speaker 3 (48:59):
Wow, that's super dope, that is cool.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
No, it's amazing.
It changed my life and itreally kind of put things in
perspective in the scope of whatpeople are really doing in the
world.
You go to the TED conference.
You hear them talk about stuffthat won't even happen for the
next 10 years, you know.
So it was really a mind-blowingexperience and I'm grateful to
be a part of it.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
So as a TED talk person is it kind of almost like
a fraternity kind of thing,whereas like you're in it
forever.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
Yep, the resource is always there, the networking is
always there.
I can always reach out to youknow some of our point people
and say hey, I have this idea.
I see such and such is doingthis and that.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Great network.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Any way that we know we can connect or I'll have
access to their emails and allthat myself and it's one of
those things, like you said,like a fraternity when you find
out somebody's a TED fellow,it's automatically love.
It's like okay how can I helpyou?
You know, so it's beautiful andit's really people really
really changing the world, likecreating vaccinations and just

(50:00):
all types of stuff.
Like it's not just arts,because you know, ted started in
a tech science world and it didit kind of like spread out to
education and arts and thingslike that.
so I'm a part of ted might be 10, 15 artists, you know, not
saying that people, they're notcreative everybody everybody's
creative because the way they,they the outlook on what they do

(50:22):
in their field, but actual,like artists I I would say as
entertainment, there might beonly 10, 15% of us out of all,
out of everybody, they're reallylike, really heavy, like in the
tech science world.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
We got, we got to get into this, jeffrey.
Somehow we got to get in.
I don't know how we might betoo old by this point, yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
No, it's great.
No, I've, I've.
I've met musical artists when Iwent to the.
What's her name?
I know, you probably know herJeffrey Mariba, is that her name
?
Indie artist great, she's asinger, she's a soul singer.
There's a lot of people I'vecome across in the music
industry You'll be surprised atbecause even if you're not a TED
fellow, you know you can attendthe conference, which I would

(51:00):
tell anybody Tickets are lowpricey, rightfully so Tickets
are a little pricey rightfullyso.
But once you're in there, thenetworking opportunities are out
of this world.
Out of this world.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
Unglossy on the road at the TED conference, Jeff.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Yeah, all right, we got to ask about what can you
share about the upcoming musical.
Tell us a little bit about it.
Where are you at?
Where are you at in the process?

Speaker 2 (51:21):
It's beautiful.
We're in development.
We're about to have a 29 hour,which in theater that's like a
week long workshop, where youkind of throw things at the
walls, see what sticks, seewhat's working, see what you
need to add, take away.
So we're in a developmentalphase.
We have some verbal commitments.
It should be on stage for fullproduction by 2027.
Like I told you, I've alreadybeen working on it since 2019.

(51:43):
So yeah so there's a lot ofprojects I'm working on at the
same time but really it's abeautiful story.
It's loosely, loosely based offme and my grandfather's
relationship.
I got the call to come homewhen I was 20 years old, in
undergrad, that my grandfatherdidn't have a lot of time left,
so I had to come back home andwhen I came back home and
attended the funeral there was alot of family members that I

(52:04):
hadn't seen since I was a kid.
So just kind of stepping backin, kind of like that mantle
passing right, like feel likeyou know, grandfather gone, okay
, my father takes his spot, Itake my father's spot, kind of
like that, that aging kind offeeling.
And the play is loosely, which Ikind of made my own world and
ethos to it in mythology, butit's based out of my projects in

(52:26):
Queens Palmini Houses, so it'sloosely based there and I
created these archetypes ofcharacters.
My character's a young boy andbaby girl and big mama and so
forth and it's really just abeautiful piece of a gumbo of
just Black culture.
Right, you're going to hearsome hip hop.
You're going to hear some slampoetry.
You're going to hear some R&B.
You're going to hear some hiphop, you're going to hear some

(52:46):
slam poetry, you're going tohear some R&B, you're going to
hear some gospel, and you know,I just put everything into a pot
that I love and I think it's abeautiful piece.
Me and my team, we didn'tnecessarily get trained in
musical theater, so our ear andeye for it, we're approaching it
very differently.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
I think it sounds different from any other musical
that you'll hear um, becausewe're just really just coming
from a different angle and adifferent lens, and I think it's
it's going to shake up somethings when it hits.
Wow, I'm excited already.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
I gotta wait till 2027.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Yeah, you know listen , it'll be there before we know
it, though I'll let you come tosome uh, developmental stops.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
Usually we have some invited reads, some some invited
readings and things like thatoh, that would be cool I'll be
able to see it before it comesout for sure that would be, very
cool.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
Wait, so one moment before we go to the rapper.
How many Tony noms did you getfor Thoughts of a Colored man?

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Unfortunately, we didn't get any.
We didn't get any.
I do feel like we you know weshould have, but we, yeah, thank
you, I appreciate that.
But no, we end up not gettingany nominations and I think
honestly, you know, we had abetter chance if we would have
had our full run.
Of course, that year was verytricky, with everybody needing
to see it and you know things ofthat nature and the momentum

(53:54):
was only growing coming into thenew year.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
But yeah, no, we didn't get any nominations.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
Yeah, but it was.
You could say you got cut shortbecause of COVID.
It was almost like LeBronwinning in the bubble.
It's a ring, but it's likeLeBron running in the bubble.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
You know what I'm saying.
But they won.
It's still a ring, though it'sstill a ring, though it's still
a ring.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
I got to ask you this because you have paved a way.
You said you were going to dosomething and you've done it.
What advice are you giving toartists that are trying to do
what you've done?
The generation behind youthat's coming up.
What advice do you give to them?

Speaker 2 (54:32):
First and foremost, believe in yourself.
You know, everything that I'veever done in a profession and in
my field, the things that havegone the furthest were the
things that I created and thethings that I follow my heart
and my spirit with.
So, first and foremost, believein yourself.
And there is a level ofdelusion you have to have that
it's all possible, right.
But first and foremost, I wouldsay, definitely bet on yourself

(54:56):
and also be willing tosacrifice what the next man
isn't.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
That's good advice.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
Well, those are the two things I would say.
It comes with a lot ofsacrifices and a lot of times,
unfortunately, in the arts thetwo biggest sacrifices are
either going to be time andmoney, or both.
So a lot of those years where Iwas independent, way before
Broadway, I was happy just tobreak even, not turning over a
profit, but knowing that youknow, build, build, building,
building those blocks, to get toa point where I could

(55:23):
potentially even have anopportunity to even be on
Broadway in the first place.
Right, you know it's all aboutthat.
You know I knew once I got inthe door my talent would keep me
there.
But I knew I had to get to thedoor first.
Right, so a lot of times thatcomes with a lot of time of not
going out, not partying, notvacationing, not eating out, not

(56:00):
eating out.
A series of maybe five goodyeses to get me here, and
fortunately Broadway was one ofthose right, but being used to
hearing no, like leaning to theno's, you know.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
That's good advice, yeah, last thing I got to ask
what gets you excited about thefuture of live theater.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
The possibilities, tech tech.
I'm a multimedia guy, so I loveseeing where theater's going,
kind of like what TV and film'sdoing, like the LED screens and
things like that.
That's really cool what they'redoing.
And really I'm just here tochampion new voices.
Please let the stage reflectour true world right, and not
just a sector of it.
So I'm excited about a lot ofthe new voices and hopefully I

(56:38):
was able to push the needle alittle bit with my work in
showing unconventional ways ofstorytelling right.
There's many, many, manydifferent ways to tell a story
Like in my style.
I fuse my love of slam poetrybecause that's what I need best,
right.
So, I'm excited about all thenew, different styles of
storytelling coming from thesenew voices that's coming up

(56:58):
behind me.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
I like it.
I think your dad would be quiteproud.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
Thank you I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
And now I got to figure out this slam poetry
thing.
Jeffrey, I think I got some inme here.
I'll tell you two, two of myfavorites that that I've always
studied legendary lemon andersonfrom brooklyn okay, black ice,
he's from philly and two of mypersonal friends which are going
to be in.
Uh, the return of young boy.
My musical is royale marsh andsteven willis brilliant.
Once you see that, you'llunderstand what slam poetry is,
I'll understand it all rightthen.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
And there those four Cool.
Well man, thank you, kenan.
I mean in one hour I feel likeyou've educated me tremendously
on just the workings of Broadway.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
I had no idea.
I had no idea, absolutely,absolutely.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
And I wish you the best of luck.
I can't wait for now, thereturn of young boy.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
It's amazing.
Trust me when I tell you I'mgoing to be on the list for any
invited reading or anything Imight do in New York where you
can see it early.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
Yes, I want to be there.
I want to be there.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
I'm with it.
Let me get my fit together andget a cut.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Absolutely Outstanding Everybody.
That is Kenan Scott, and waitfor his next big project coming.
All right, folks, that's ourshow.
Tune in to Unglossing thecoding brand and culture on
Apple Podcasts, spotify orYouTube and follow us on
Instagram, at unglossypod, tojoin the conversation.
Until next time, I'm Tom Frank,I'm Jeffrey Sledge.

Speaker 4 (58:29):
Smicky.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Smicky, that was good .