Bun B: Culture, Burgers, and the Real Trill

In this powerhouse episode of Unglossy, hip-hop icon and cultural heavyweight Bun B (aka Bernard Freeman) joins Thomas Frank and Jeffrey Sledge for a deep, funny, and wildly inspiring conversation that spans decades — and industries.

From his early days forming UGK with the late, great Pimp C to building Trill Burgers into America’s best burger brand (literally), Bun breaks down the milestones, missteps, and mindset that kept him both relevant and real. He talks about the origin of his rap name, the Houston culture that shaped him, what it really takes to build longevity in music and business — and why being trill isn’t just a brand, it’s a standard.

You’ll hear stories that have never been told, like the day UGK signed with Jive, how Bun became a professor at Rice University, why Ridin’ Dirty was their first real album, and the honest truth about whether he’d ever run for mayor of Houston.

And yes, there’s a surprise. Stay till the end to catch a major Unglossy announcement you won't want to miss.

This episode is a masterclass in authenticity, entrepreneurship, and cultural leadership — from a man who’s done it all and still shows up hungry.

🎙️ Tap in. This is Unglossy.

"Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture," is produced and distributed by Merrick Studio and hosted by Bun B, Tom Frank and Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to hear this thought-provoking discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @UnglossyPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://unglossypod.buzzsprout.com/

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week on Unglassy .

Speaker 2 (00:02):
So I love to talk to other people about their big
pimping moment, or when did theyfind their burger?
You know what I'm saying,because that's what I tell
everybody Go find your burger,bro.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Go find your burger.
Go find your burger, bro.
I love that.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Get out here and go for it, but you got to go for it
.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
You got to go, and that's what we're doing with
this.
We're going for it.
I found another burger.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
And that's the thing when you actually dream for
something and chase it and catchit, you start running after all
that shit.
Now I'm a dog chasing taxi cabsand shit.
Exactly you know what I'msaying Because I caught one.
Exactly I caught a car bro.
Now I feel like I can catch allof them.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
From the top.
Yeah, I'm Tom Frank.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
I'm Mickey Fax.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
And yeah, I'm Tom Frank, I'm Mickey Fax and I'm
Jeffrey.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Sledge, Welcome to Unglossy, to coning brand and
culture.
I'm Tom Frank, partner andchief creative officer at Merit
Creative.
This is Mickey Fax, hip hopartist and founder and CEO of
Pendulum Inc.
And that is Jeffrey Sledge, aseasoned music industry veteran
who has worked with some of thebiggest artists in the business.
We, who has worked with some ofthe biggest artists in the
business, we're here to explorethe moments of vulnerability,

(01:06):
pivotal decisions and creativesparks that fuel the
relationship between brand andculture.
Get ready for athought-provoking journey into
the heart and soul of brandingthe unscripted, unfiltered and
truly unglossy truth.
All right, welcome back toUnglossy, Today's guest, Jeffrey
this is an icon that doesn'teven begin to cover it.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
Not even a little bit .
You know this guy.
I've known him since 1992.
Was that 92 when you guyssigned 92.
I always tell people I actuallywas the first person they met
at Jive because the guy who ranJive was always notoriously late
for meetings.
His secretary at the timecalled me and said Sledge, those

(01:47):
guys from Texas are here, gotalk to them.
And I'm like what.
So I went in the conferenceroom it was Bun Pimp C Miss him
dearly and Pimp's mother Wes,who I miss tremendously and we
just sat and talked.
We didn't even talk about music.
Really it was like, oh, youknow, because I hadn't been to

(02:08):
New York before, they weretalking about the buildings and
how expensive it was, you know.
We had a long conversation andwe came in and finally did the
music meeting.
Yeah, it was a trip.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
So you got to introduce this guy first, though
.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
I'm just waiting, I'm just asking, I'm just waiting,
I'm talking like I didn't evensay his name.
So we have the infamous Bun BBernard Freeman, bun B for the
infamous UGK and now the I can'tthink of a word but the amazing
Trill Burgess franchise.
He also does the music for therodeo for texas.

(02:45):
He's also a college professor.
He does the gumball rally likehe's a foodie.
He's a movie aficionado.
He's does fashion aficionado.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
He does everything can we just call him the burger
king no, no, the we're gonna getyou there, maybe the.
Let me just say this, folks,for everyone, listen, we got a
little surprise coming at thevery end, so you got to stick
with us.
You got to stick with us to thevery end for this one.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
I'll make sure to stick around for the surprise.
You stick all the way aroundSounds good.
Thank you, guys for having me.
Can I start like this Because?
Can I start like this?
Because I always have an issuewith infamy and infamous.
Okay, because I think it's oneof the terms that's misused
quite a lot.
So fame and being famous isbeing known or glorified or

(03:39):
looked up to for something thatyou want to be looked up to.
Okay, infamy is when peopleknow you for something you'd
rather they not know you?

Speaker 3 (03:49):
okay, if I used it wrong, I use it wrong.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
I used it wrong until somebody corrected me, and now
I correct everybody, okay.
That's why it's so fitting forlike mob deep the infamous,
because yeah, they're verycrimey kind of kids.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah, they were.
They were pretty raw.
Yeah, we gotta talk about thealbum one day, um, but yeah,
yeah, let's get it started, manabsolutely, man.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Happy to be here, happy to be here, guys beautiful
, this is beautiful man.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
So go ahead, time you start.
So I mean do we?

Speaker 1 (04:14):
let's start.
I I've always wanted to ask youthis bun, though, and I and
maybe I should know this butwhere bun b?
Where does it?
Where does it come from?

Speaker 2 (04:24):
So Bun B, what's the story?
So my family nickname was BunnyRabbit.
From a very small child mynickname was Bunny Rabbit
because I would shake in mysleep, like I would like kind of
just ball up and shake in mysleep and technically I still
sleep like that Not aspronounced as it was then

(04:44):
because it would be kind of likeballed up kind of a thing which
I imagine as a little kid, likea very small toddler, was kind
of cute, um, but that shit gotold very fast because I grew up
and I grew up in the kind offamily where we used to either
have to all sleep on the bedtogether when we spent the night
at each other's house or wewere all like on a shared pallet
, like for people that don'tknow, because most people hear

(05:07):
pallet in like the shippingsense, yeah, more people.
But um, pallet in the blackcontext, as far as I was
introduced to it is likebasically like a mock mattress
kind of a setup.
So basically you would put likea comforter with a sheet on top
of it and then like a group ofpeople would sleep on top of
that and then they would allcollectively sleep under another

(05:29):
sheet and a comforter.
More so kids than anything.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yes, kids.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Typically how kids are.
So when you go to your cousin'shouse, or everybody went over
to grandma's house, that's howwe would house everybody right,
yeah, wow, so what originated?

Speaker 1 (05:46):
I don't want to spend all the time talking about.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to geton here I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
So yeah, so sleeping on a pallet with other kids
shaking and shit that that wasthat was an issue and then.
So my close friends got tocalling me knew me as bunny
because the rabbit war off.
So my family nickname to thisday was bunny, and a good friend
of mine, sharan, was like whenI started rapping he's like you
need a rap name.
And this was back with, uh, youknow, paulie p and dougie d and

(06:12):
all that.
So my rap name was bun bunny b,then it was bun b ice and then
I dropped the ice and it becamebun b.
So if you listen on an old UGKrecord I think it might be
supposed to bubble there's asong where Pim says you still

(06:33):
ice to me, fool.
And that's what that means isbecause I probably was in two
years of dropping the ice.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
Hey, now, if I'm not mistaken, again, I'm going to
let it go.
After this, did the west justto call you bunny?
Yes, that's my family nicknameI never understood.
I never put the two, the familything together.
But I remember, I remember tothis day her.
She's always called you bunny.
I didn't realize, I justthought she was just like
extending the bun, I know and'trealize it was a new thing.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
There was only a handful of people that ever
called me that.
Faze called me that becauseFaze used to trap out of my
cousin's house Wow, many, manyyears ago.
So he knew my family.
Nickname for me was Bunny, sothat was more like a joke kind
of a thing.
Okay With him.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Big Mike from the Convicts used to call me bunny
dangerous from johnnydangerously yeah, the the old
michael keaton parody film wow,yeah, I mean, did you know this
was always going to be you?
Did you know when you were akid you were going to be in the
music?

Speaker 2 (07:39):
no not at all I knew I wanted to be in entertainment,
but I wanted to be more likeacting and comedy.
That was really what I was into.
So I did a lot of the highschool intramural type shit.
I actually went to state forthat, but I skipped state and
went to senior weekend and sothat became a whole other thing

(08:01):
Because I was like I was Romeo,like I played Romeo in high
school to a white Juliet, sothat was a thing that was a
thing.
That's a thing, that was a thing.
But I really enjoyed likeeverything that that small town

(08:23):
kind of built in you kind of athing, because there was no
opportunity really there, sowhatever it was you was gonna do
, you was gonna have to kind offigure it out, yeah yeah, yeah,
yeah, poor arthur, wow, so wait.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
So how did?
How did I notice?
But how did the music thingstart?

Speaker 2 (08:42):
music thing started with chad.
Chad was in the music beforeeverybody.
Oh god, my grandson is callingme.
What does this kid want?
call braylon queen, sorry that'sall right all right, but it
started with chad chad and wasone of the first guys in the
hometown to do music, like withreal equipment and everything
boom, boomtown.
Mr Boomtown, the video directorwas like one of the first

(09:06):
people to like get a beatmachine and get microphones and
actually rap and make beats.
And Pimp was like the youngestperson in that collective.
Everybody else was like seniorsand everything else and Pimp
was like a freshman kind ofthing, so he was like the young
guy in that collective.
Pep was like a freshman kind ofthing, so he was like the young
guy in that collective.

(09:27):
So he was making music,probably at least two, two and a
half years before I evenstarted writing rhymes Really,
you know what I'm saying.
And then we as the older peoplestarted to graduate and cycle
out.
We kind of had to figure outwhat we were going to do.
We started with like maybe 11guys it was like 11 of us that
were collectively all trying torap like this guy was a dj,

(09:50):
these two dudes were dancers,this guy was a rapper, we were a
group, it was this whole kindof thing and then, one by one,
like everybody, decided to dosomething else for a living.
So at the end of the day, um,and then dj dmd was around and
he but he had kind of his ownlittle group.

(10:11):
He wasn't necessarily in thatcollective.
We were all friends, right, wewere all cool, but they
eventually found their wayanother way.
But yeah, we, I looked up andit was really was me, chad and
bird one day, and that's kind ofwho ended up being UGK
initially.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Wow, and so, jeffrey, how did Jive first even know
about?

Speaker 3 (10:36):
So Jive was built.
It couldn't do this today, butat the time Jive was built on
Okay, there was these thingscalled one-stops, and one-stops
were the suppliers to whateverlocal retail record retail store
was in that region.
There were one-stops in everycity Chicago everybody had

(10:58):
one-stops Kind of like awholesaler.
Yeah, like a wholesaler.
So there was a one-stop I forgetthe name of it now but it was a
one-stop in Texas and what Jivewould do was Jive had the guy
when Jive Barry Weiss.
He had very good connectionswith the one-stops so he would
always call them and say yo,what's happening in your area,
like locally, what groups areputting out songs or albums in

(11:22):
your area that are popping?
That's how the drive found tooshort, that's how I'll drive,
I'll be 40.
That's how I found R Kelly, onand on and on.
And so he called, he was calledpeople's in Texas and asked and
this somebody said yo, this isa group called UGK that that are
kind of bubbling down here.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
I wasn't supposed to bubble here was it was supposed
to bubble.
Was that?
Was that?
No, no, tell me something good.
So there was a local radio showhere called houston hometown
and, like they, every couple ofmonths they would do a contest
and the winner would win studiotime to press up a record.
And so we got in.
We got in on the last day ofthat particular cycle of

(12:01):
competition and we got morevotes than everybody else added
up for.
Tell me something good.
Yeah, but they disqualified usbecause we were already with
Russell.
We were already with RussellWashington and big time.
We already had a record dealtechnically so they wouldn't.
So they disqualified us fromgetting the single.
But because so many peoplecalled in and we didn't know

(12:25):
this, apparently you were notsupposed to be able to be played
on the radio if you didn't havea record for sale at the time.
That was what I had heard atthe time.
But because it was such a bigdemand and we were signed and
the record was getting ready tobe pressed and be released, they
went ahead and just put it inthe rotation locally.

(12:46):
And I think that the week wedropped the independent project
not too hard to swallow, but thefirst UGK independent project
with Big Time Records was thesame week that Crisscross
dropped and Crisscross was thenumber one record out of every

(13:06):
one stop and wholesaler exceptthe one stop here.
Wow, we were the only thingthat was like competitively over
that that weekend, like sellingunits in stores comparatively,
and so the first call we got wasfrom warlock, so the record

(13:27):
company's phone number was thewas the phone that big time
records store in the flea market.
So I and I worked, I worked therecord store, so I'm answering
the phone yeah so it was likewarlock called, then, um, the
label that had Mix-a-Lot, andthose guys called Everybody

(13:50):
started calling right, I don'teven know if you know this, jeff
.
So everybody called this weekright, and it was a Friday,
everybody was calling, everybodywas calling.
And then I go to work Saturdayand nobody called Right, like
nobody called.
And then Sunday, nobody calledRight, like nobody called.
And then Sunday, nobody called.
And so we got nervous becausewe felt like we overplayed our

(14:11):
hand.
Like profile, you name it, whowas EPMD was on, were they on
profile EPMD on sleeping bag?
On sleeping bag, everybodycalled, like from the smallest
to everybody called.
And then over the weekend, likeSunday, we was like yo ain't
nobody calling, like toeverybody calling.
And then over the weekend, likesomething was like yo ain't
nobody calling Like we mighthave fucked up.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
We're not thinking it's the weekend.
It's the weekend.
Nobody's in the office.
We don't know how this shit go.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah Right.
So we like fuck that.
First motherfucker call Mondaywe signing, and it was.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
Jive and it was Jive, it was Jive Records.
I didn't know that part of thestory.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
The funny thing is that across town, tony Draper's
watching this the whole time Wow, tony Draper's watching it the
whole time and he realized thatwe signed too quick, we didn't
get enough.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah, yeah yeah, wow, so you fly to New York.
You've never been to New York.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
I've never been.
I think Chad had been with thechoir younger.
To New York I've never been.
I think Chad had been with thechoir younger.
Him and Mitchell Queen had been, because that was the first
iteration of UGK.
I think they had been to NewYork before.
I had never been to New Yorkbefore at all.
I'd seen it all on TV.
I'd see like a legless,homeless person like Eddie
Murphy, in Trading Places andshit.
I have all these differentideas of what New York is.

(15:23):
And then we get dropped off atColumbus Circle.
I think it was a resident.
It might have been Radisson atthe time or Empire Hotel, yeah,
but that was where it might havebeen the Empire.
And then the lobby was theoriginal Blue Note.
I didn't know that.
If I'm not mistaken, I thinkthe original Blue Note was in
that building and shit got veryNew York very quickly because

(15:46):
Chad wanted to go to Harlem.

Speaker 3 (15:49):
Yeah, I got a story about that too.
We took a cab to Harlem.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, it just got dropped off.
We was like we want to go toHarlem.
Dude was like what do you mean?
Like we want to go to Harlem?
He's like where?
You trying to go to Harlem.
We was like we don't know, weain't never been.
Yeah, we dropped in, I think,one, I don't know if it was
125th or 145th.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Probably 125th.
I think it might have been125th 125th was interesting
because I don't know if it wasthis trip or another trip.
You guys wanted to get ahaircut.
That was the trip.
Yes, and my barber.
I lived in Harlem, my barber.
I lived in Harlem, my barber,lenny the Barber well, it was
Sam Gore's shop, but Lenny theBarber, he was our barber and I
was like yo, I got these guysfrom Texas who want to go to

(16:30):
Haircut and I brought them tothe barbershop.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
And they had the two food joints across the street.
They were like don't get theChinese, get the Jamaican, yeah.
And then they linked up withthe record store dude around the
corner.
When you get to you know right,and we just, but just getting a
cab, though, like trying to getthe cab, and the dude trying he
can tell we not from New.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
York.
Right and we want to go to.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Harlem, and we don't even know where we want to go.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
Yeah, we just want to yep.
I remember that, yes, they cameto the shop and they kind of
recognized to yep.
I remember that, yes, they cameto the shop and they kind of
recognized me at first and Iremember somehow it came up,
they were rappers and you guyshad the song.
That might have been later.
Chad had the song with Big Mike.
That was a little later, yeah,A little later, and one of the
guys in the shop was like, oh,you're the guy from the Big Mike

(17:21):
video.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
And then later, on and then from the Big Mike video
and then later on I would go toget the haircut.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
I was like your boy was here and I'm like what are
you talking about?
And Chad would come to New Yorkand go there by himself.
And I'd tell him he was inHarlem he would just go to that
barbershop.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Chad would go to New York and he would either go to
or probably both, but I don'tknow in which order.
But it would be.
You go see Lord Jamar andBranson.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, branson yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Branson was right up the street.
Him and Branson were very, verygood friends.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
Branson was right up the street, yeah, man.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, those were the days Chocolate tie.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
The real chocolate tie the real chocolate tie.
Yeah, yeah, yep, yep, so yeah,that's what happened.
That, yep, so yeah, that's whathappened.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
That's amazing.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
That's how it started actually.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
But Jeff and I never talked music.
We talked other people's music.
We never talked.
I've never talked UGK businesswith Jeff.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
With me and Bun.
We always talked culture,whatever's going on in the
culture, whether it's movies, tv.
I still remember things like,tom, you remember the Dallas
Cowboys used to do this backwhen they scored.
So, bun, actually I rememberbeing in the car Bun's car and
we were talking and he explainedto me what that comes from.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
I don't know where that comes from, not football
it's like a raise the roof kindof thing, but it's a raise the
roof gesture, but if you're inthe car you would hit the roof,
kind of thing.
Yeah, but it's a raise the roofgesture, but if you're in the
car, you're actually you wouldhit the roof, like when a song,
like when SI Hit the roof thesong was like yeah, the song was
.
You were really feeling whatyou was listening to.
You were really in the moment.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yes, slam the roof of the car and the Dallas Cowboys
picked that up and it becamethis national thing and nobody
really knew.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Nobody even knew where it came from.
It wasn't even a Dallas thing.
No, it wasn't a Dallas thing atall.

Speaker 3 (19:08):
Dallas is far from Port Arthur's and it wasn't a
Dallas thing at all.
There was always these culturalthings that we would talk about
, and I'm always a kind of verycurious person when it comes to
the culture of whatever city I'min.
I want to know what do y'all dothat?
Why y'all wear y'all pants likethat?
How come y'all wear thosesneakers?
So me and Bun, he would justalways be explaining shit to me.

(19:29):
And then other thing about Bunand Chad is they were all
scientists really with thehip-hop shit, right.
So unlike a lot of other groups, they listened to everything.
So we'd have theseconversations about whatever was
out.
It could be some New York shit,it could be some Chicago shit,
it could be some Bay Area shit,it could be some Texas shit, it

(19:49):
could be some Miami shit.
And they had heard it.
They had heard the whole albumand broke it down.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
They were studying it and breaking it down.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Pimp's breaking down the sonic aspect of it and I'm
paying attention to the wordplay, to the lyrics.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
Is that how you two worked?
You were more on the word side,he was more.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, no, I did no music.
I did no music and not to takeaway from Pimp, pimp was an
amazing writer as well, but allI had to do, tom, was rap.
So I'm just cocked, loaded andready, like in the holster,
itching, itching, ready to gothe whole time, but I never

(20:28):
really.
So our fan base and our culturespoke through slower music, not
necessarily the screwed upstuff, but just a very laid back
bpm.
You know around 76 to 78, verychill and for me, which is fine,
right, we're making the musicthe bass wants to hear.
But I can't really.
I can't really rap like I wantto at that tempo.
So I'm always asking for pimplike yo, make me, make me a song

(20:50):
.
And pimp is the main onebragging the whole time.
Pimp is like you can't out rap,bum b, bum b the colors,
whatever I'm like yo, give me asong so I can show yeah, so what
you can do 16s was kind of that, but it wasn't really until,
like, we got murder under thebelt where I was really allowed
to cut loose.
But it's one of those thingswhere I liken it to OutKast.

(21:13):
I think the only reason thatBig Boi doesn't get the proper
recognition he should is becausehe's rapping with Andra.
Yes, I feel like Chad snapped.
All the Pimp C quotables comefrom murder.
Mm, if you think about it, gotcocaine numbers.
You would think I was lying Allthe fly shit.

(21:34):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
That people like to quote about Chad.
A lot of it comes from hisverse on murder.
Yeah, yeah, but.
I get highly regarded for myverse on murder and I'm like the
only, I say the only reasony'all ain't really paying
attention because pimp is reallygoing off like he's wrapping
his ass off but about some very,very street shit.

(21:57):
But it's super technical.
My shit is technical fortechnical sake.
I got got you.
You know what I'm saying.
But he's like the whole timelike I've never really out
rapped Chad.
There's no song where like I'mjust leaving Chad in the dust,
like there's never been.
That you know what I'm saying.
And the same way with OutKast.

(22:18):
Like Andre's not just you know,laughing at him.
No, no, those dudes are,they're powerful, they're bar
for bar, absolutely with thisbut certain songs call for
certain things.
Yeah, you know I'm saying so,but no, it was always pimp, it
was always pimp's baby and pimpwas the music, and I just tried
to fill in the blanks.
The best part, the best I coulddo.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
You feel like, as a rapper, it just came naturally
to you, or is it something thatyou had to put a lot of work in?
I mean because I feel like someguys just have it like they
just have the ability to thinkquick, to put words together,
and others just don't.
But where are you thinking thatI?

Speaker 2 (22:56):
am good with words, I will say that, right, I do have
a history of writing um inschool, you know I'm saying I
was always first with thejournal, always, you know,
always very well read.
But everything like fromliterature doesn't really,
doesn't really work until youlearn enough about the world and
able to put certain shit like.
I can know a bunch of words, Ican know the definition, I can

(23:18):
know how to use it, but I gottaput that shit in context.
Yeah, right, so a lot of it, alot of the rhymes from that,
from my earliest point ofrhyming was trying to be very
technical and try to fend out,figure out where to bend words
at, and if there wasn't a clearmatch, then maybe two syllables,
or I took a three syllablephrase to make these things

(23:38):
match, or so forth, and.
But sometimes you can be doingall this shit and it's
particularly for my audience.
It's going over amotherfucker's head, because
that's not really what I'mrequired to do.
Yeah, and I think that's aproblem that a lot of people
from my generation have withwhat's going on with music now
is because, quite frankly,lyricism is not something you're

(24:00):
required to do now.
To be fair, the best rappers,the biggest rappers are very.
They're the best writers, right.
The jay-z's, jay cole's, thekendrick's, the drakes these are
all some of the best writerswe've ever had, absolutely the
deepest thinkers we've ever had,right, but they never lost
sight of entertainment right andtalking to the room.

(24:23):
That's where a lot of peoplethat are great technical people
can get lost at.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm going to ask you thisquestion what's your favorite
UGK album?

Speaker 2 (24:34):
I'd have to say the last one.
I'd have to say the last one,normally, I would say Ryan Dirty
because of, but that's becauseof the sacrifices Like Ryan
Dirty, because of, but that'sbecause of the sacrifices.
Like Ryan Dirty is specialbecause, like Ryan Dirty, is the
first real UGK out.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
What do you mean by that?
Like Riding.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Dirty is the first album uninterrupted by sample
clearance, uninterrupted byreproduction, because, remember,
there were songs that werereproduced on our album that we
didn't know and so we didn'twant money, if you remember, we
didn't want a cash advance, wewanted equipment, we wanted
creative control and we kind ofsacrificed the advancement of

(25:19):
cash because we just didn't wantthe music to be fucked with.
Yep, yep, you know, I'm sayingnow, all things being done, like
we were still getting, like wewere renting equipment, but
we're renting it from the recordcompany's equipment store, so I
still get double bill.
I'm all, I'm beyond it now I'mbeyond it now.
Right like I, I, I perseveredin spite of, but that was the

(25:40):
kind of shit we were dealingwith and it was really like,
well, that's what you want?
Yeah, fuck it, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
I'm getting mine anyway, but that's the first
album where the actual visionwas uninterrupted.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
every song we wanted on that album made that album
the the ability to mix in Dolbylike letting us actually really
mix in 5.1.
Riding Dirty being recorded inthe beta version of Pro Tools.
Like a lot of people don't knowthat, it's the first rap album
recorded in Pro Tools.
I didn't know that.

(26:13):
In the beta version because SkipHolman, when we recorded Skip,
was the number one radiocommercial producer, so he had
the largest sound bank.
That's where you know.
Joe met him through that, buthe was the first to utilize pro
tools in order to digitally sendthese commercials through email
from station to station.

(26:34):
Like it was this whole and wedidn't really understand really
what was going on.
Pimp just wanted the best soundavailable.
This was the guy.
This was an SSL board.
This was a hundred somethousand dollar board we were
working with.
We had the most advancedtechnology any person recording
at that time could haveavailable to them.

(26:54):
I'm still not punching in.
I was literally one of the firstrappers if not the first rapper
with the ability to punch in averse, and I'm recording murder.
Straight through.
And I'm like no, because I'mrealizing I got to be able to do
it in the booth.
Otherwise, if there's tricks inthe booth, there's going to

(27:15):
have to be tricks on the stage.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
On the stage.
There's going to have to betricks on the stage.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
We were each other's hype man there wasn't
technically.
I'll take that back.
Bobo was a hype man for severalyears.
I'll take that back.
Bobo was more of a hype man asenergy, not really filling in
words or anything like that.
Pimp and I kind of played offof each other as far as ad-libs
and things like that.
Murder at the time was like amoment in the show I used to do

(27:47):
murder where I'd light acigarette and put it on my ear
and then do murder Because I hadtimed out how long it would
take for it to burn down to myear, burn down to your ear.
It made for good stage theatrics.
You got to realize UGK.
Even even up to this point we'donly had like two music videos.
They were both under maybe 2530 grand in the 90s.
These were very so for ridingdirty.
We was like we didn't even wantto do the video because we we

(28:10):
didn't feel like the budget wasworth it.
So we never even did a videofor ride dirty.
So and we didn't really get alot of magazine pieces.
So ugk a lot of times.
Pieces, ugk a lot of times.
People's first time seeing uswas at a show on stage.
That's why Pimp used to bitchabout the music so much, because
this is it.
Every time we did a show forthe first time in the city it

(28:31):
was the make or break moment.
The only thing we had going forus was if they came to the show
and enjoyed it and wanted more.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
Enjoyed the show exactly.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Because we're not getting hit through the
magazines.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
We're not getting hit with radio and all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
So what do you owe your longevity to?
I mean, you've been in thisbusiness for a long time.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
I've been myself this entire time, right to the point
where anybody that's met methroughout this, this, let's say
, through the music, right?
So we're in 90.
We're starting in 92professionally.
Right now we're in 25.
So this is 33 years of music andI I don't know if you can find

(29:12):
anybody that can really tell youI'm a different dude now.
Now there was a period where Iused to smoke, fry and ride
around with guns and all thattype of shit.
Yeah, I was different back then, but I still listened to the
music.
I listened to, watched themovies and read books.

(29:33):
I did all of that shit.
You know what I'm saying, butI'm still everybody that knows
me personally I'm still the samedude you've met the same time.
I'm still interested in most ofthe same shit.
You know I'm saying I'm stillconcerned about a lot of the
same shit.
I still listen to the same shit.
Talk about the shit I used to.
I've been someone that peoplecan count on as an entertainer,

(29:57):
as a performer, as a mentor, asa collaborator, as a friend.
Right, I can call bun for thissituation, this song, this show,
this experience, this moment,and I know exactly what I'm
going to get from consistency.
What is?
Uh, I'm trying to think of hername, carrie fisher carrie

(30:17):
fisher in her latter years.
The actress.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
The actress yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
She was a script doctor.
Oh, I didn't know that, yeah,and so script doctor's job is to
come in and fix a scene.
Basically there's like a bigmonologue, or there's a moment,
you know, somebody needs towrite the hero monologue for the
hero, somebody needs to writesomething for the lover or the
girl that's in love, orsomebody's got to say something

(30:43):
in the moment that grabs thecrowd.
And sometimes those momentswhen they may look good on paper
but when the actor gets thereafter everything they've done,
it doesn't feel authentic.
Now, a lot of times, theseactors, they allow these actors
and afford them the opportunityto write for themselves.
But everybody ain't finna beBen Affleck or Matt Damon who
actually have acting chops thatthey can lend to it.
So every now and then somebodygot to come in and fix that shit

(31:07):
.
I do that in hip-hop.
So a lot of the features yousee me on it was because
somebody's cousin or homeboy orartist, for whatever reason,
they wanted to give somebody agood look on the record.
It didn't work out.
We're in a time crunch, we'retalking about this and I need
somebody that can deliver.

(31:27):
It's Saturday night.
I got to turn this shit Monday.
You know what I'm saying.
Who can we call?
It's a strip club song.
It's a car song.
It's a street song.
It's a conscious song.
It's a street song.
It's a conscious song.
Right, it's a protest song.
Who can we call for this shit?
I've been that person for a lotof people.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
You're the Carrie Fisher, the Carrie Fisher of rap
yeah, hip hop's Carrie Fisher.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
I take that you know what I'm saying.
But then also I've been a bigbrother and an uncle to a lot of
people too.
Absolutely, because I've beenaround long enough to know that
a lot of rappers have been toldby songs and videos and records
and pictures that they can go tothis city, connect with this

(32:13):
person and have that experience.
And you would be shocked by howmany artists went somewhere
with somebody thinking they weregood with that person, only to
realize that person ain't good.
You know what I'm saying.
So for Houston, because I'mfrom Port Arthur, technically
I'm not attached to anyparticular neighborhood.

(32:35):
Well, technically I am, becauseI was born in Houston.
I grew up on the north side ina very small neighborhood but I
wasn't a man then.
So I'm connected now becausepeople know as an older person.
But it's a little different.
But because I didn't have thoseneighborhood territorial ties,

(32:56):
I pretty much could go anywhere.
So if people wanted to come toHouston and go to 5th Ward, go
to the Fofo or go to South Parkor go by DJ Screwstore or go get
some Frenchie's fried chickenor go get some Burns BBQ,
wherever it is they want to go,I would go and just pick people
up because I didn't wantpromoters or other rappers or

(33:18):
different people.
I didn't want nobody to getbecause it wasn't a good look
for the city.
Yeah, that shit wouldn't be agood look for the city.
So I would just go and pickdudes up and I had a you know if
I'm in town and a lot of these.
This is the home, the house ofblues era, right, where hip-hop
starts to be allowed into thehouse of blues.
And so you got dudes in townson tuesdays and thursdays, right

(33:41):
, because they're they're tryingto get.
Because I got to be in neworleans on friday.
I got to be in this city.
So I had a lot of free time atthis time.
I was doing teaching differentthings.
Um, I had a lot of downtime,pimples locked up and so forth
and so on.
So I would just go and getdudes and it would be cool to go
get lupe one week, right, andthen go get mac miller and then

(34:01):
go get the cool kids.
And you know what I'm sayingyeah, show these dudes and take
them around and let them likewhere you want to go.
You know I'm saying I want togo to screw shot, I want some
barbecue, I want some friedchicken.
I want to go see this.
All right, well, let's do itand ride these dudes around, and
these, these dudes can have avery authentic Houston
experience.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
That's pretty cool that you did that and we still
do that, I still do that Now.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
I do it with Trulberg .
You just come through and youknow, meet me at the shop.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
We're going to get to Trulberg because I want to get
into that, but first I want totalk about I want to talk about
you as an educator though,because I was always curious, I
saw curious, I saw this youtaught at rice, right.
I mean that's kind of tell memore about that.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
That's kind of cool so, um, a couple of my
opportunities have come becausecomedian there was busy.
This is one of them.
I became a television pundit,like the reason you see me
talking on a lot of talk showsand doing a lot of that stuff is
because there was a very Ican't remember specifically, it
was a police brutality case atthe time.
It might have have been Jenna,it might have been a Jenna

(34:59):
situation, but they wanted totalk to the millionaire because
Riding Dirty was out and it wasabout police brutality.
And he was like I don't want totalk about that type of shit,
but Bun B might want to talkabout it.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
So you have to go through.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
I got that part.
So they had asked themillionaire to speak at Rice
University at a class on hip hopand religion.
He was like, yeah, I don't likedoing that type of shit, but
you know who you should callCall Bun man.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
And we'll be right back, ready to launch your
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Speaker 4 (35:40):
And now back to our show, and we'll be right back
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Speaker 1 (36:00):
And now back to the show.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
So I was called, I was asked to come and speak at
the class.
I met with the teacher of theclass, dr Anthony Penn.
Before I looked at some bookson the shelf, I recognized a
couple.
We had some conversations.
We went in, we had theconversation with the class and
then a couple of weeks later hewas like you know, you should
think about teaching this classwith me.
I was like what do you mean?

(36:23):
I didn't even go to college.
He was like yeah, but theknowledge you have you couldn't
learn at a university anyway.
So no way to really accreditwhat you know.
So he was like technically, youwould be part of a cultural
exchange program, whereas youare the culture.
That you would be part of acultural exchange program,
whereas you are the culture.
So this was about bringingHouston's culture literally onto

(36:44):
the campus in form of me as aco-teacher in this course, and
then we would take theuniversity out and, because it
was a course on hip hop andreligion, we would teach a
course in a studio, then wewould teach one in a church so
that you could see the spaces inwhich these things were
actually practiced in.
Um, but how long did you teachover there?

(37:05):
I taught, uh, I taught threesemesters over a five-year
period, okay, alternating okay,but I, I was, I was really
concerned because I never, Inever lectured or anything like
that.
You know what I'm saying.
I don't come from academia, sothat's a whole different way of
speaking and our class isn'tlike well, college for that

(37:28):
matter, isn't really likememorization and regurgitation.
That's high school shit, rightFor the most part.
And I'm at Rice University, I'mat a private university, I'm in
a humanities course, so a lotof this is really just about how
they see it.
You know what I'm saying howthey perceive the things we've
told them to read, the songswe've showed them the things I

(37:49):
kind of talk through differentthings.
It's just really how theyperceive it, and some of them
well, most of them, frankly hadno frame of reference for hip,
because we're startingpost-slavery, we're starting
from post-slavery Reconstruction, jim Crow, all of that, the
black experience, black culture,how it spread, how it's taught,
how black people getinformation Right and typically

(38:12):
it was either.
You know, after slavery, blackpeople either chose to reclaim
their minds or their bodies, andwhat I mean by that is that
people that wanted to reclaimtheir mind typically went to the
church they wanted.
The church was what.
The pastor was typically themost well-read black person in
town.
He was the only person reallyallowed to own books because he

(38:32):
preached at the church, and sothat's where people would get
education from.
So a lot of people really wentto the church for, you know, to
reclaim education and knowledgeof themselves for the world.
And then other people wanted toreclaim their body, and that's
where the idea of the juke joint.
So you see it in centers, right.
You guys have seen centers,right, I'm assuming.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
So that's what you see.
It's split between the churchand the juke joint, that's the
black experience slavery right.
So, and you see it, that's ahouse of flesh right, because
these are people who were notallowed to be themselves.
A lot of them were raped, men,men and women forced to have sex
with people they didn't want toforce to procreate with people
they weren't in love with.

(39:10):
So the juke joint was wherepeople could go and reclaim
their body and have sex with whothey wanted to have sex with
and dance how they want, movetheir body in the way that they
wanted to.
So and that's kind of what wetaught in the class and so
that's interesting, so we thiswas a very it was.
It was a reframing of whatwe're talking about.
It's.
This is a class built aroundhip-hop and religion, but as a

(39:35):
as a subtext to a much deeperconversation about the black
experience in America from ahumanities aspect.
So the questions I would getfrom that would be like, yeah,
what's a borough?
Like to the point where, like,the most interesting thing that
we were posed with was we're thewomen in leadership, was we're

(39:58):
the women in leadership, becausethe practitioners of music, the
supporters of music, are womenand the practitioners of
religion and the supporters ofreligion are primarily women,
but there's no leadership ineither one.
Where's that coming from?
Then we realized, like I hadTAs, we had no women TAs.
We had no female representation.

(40:18):
Wow.
We realized, like I had th, wehad no women tas, we had no
female representation.
Wow.
So when we came back, we had tobring on two female tas into
the class to have thatperspective represented, both
from religion and hip-hop, andbe and open to realizing we
didn't think that through.
Obviously you know what I'msaying as men yeah so it was an

(40:40):
amazing exchange of ideas andperception and would you ever do
it again people.
No, I would love to do it againI just it was something I did
because, frankly, music wasn'tfun for me anymore at the time
and I just needed something,something different to do, to
engage my time.
It does not pay well, but itwas cool.

(41:01):
I'm going to be honest I don'tthink I ever felt as adult as I
did like sitting in the officeon office hours, like if kids
wanted to come in and talkbefore or after class, and then
Queenie used to work out rightaround the corner so she would
meet me in the faculty loungefor lunch.
That's different shit, bro.

(41:21):
You're a true adult right there, I'm just telling you on, on,
on literally the number oneuniversity campus in texas yeah
which rice university isalternates between the number 15
and number 17 college in inamerica.
like it's extremely prestigiousTo be able to park here and scan
my little badge and all thattype of shit.

(41:42):
We're sitting there.
I'm teaching in.
I got shawl collar sweaters.
I'm wearing sports coat.
I'm on my grown man shit I'mordering shit from what's your
man name in Brooklyn?
The grown man shit in Brooklyn,brooklyn Circus, brooklyn
Circus, brooklyn Circus.
Back then it was the beginningof web retail and I could order

(42:06):
some of that shit.
I was like that fly black man oncampus type collegiate type
shit.
That was my shit back then, man.
But then Queen was like you gota job in the daytime, but this
ain't your day job, you got toget back to music.
We found a path back to music,and I still talk to Dr Penn and
we've talked about bringing thiscourse back, but from more of a

(42:29):
civics approach in mass, andthen I'm really getting back to
like in modern, in like 2025,what is?
What are our respective moralobligations in this society?
You know I'm saying because Ithink people put their religious
beliefs into what they believeeveryone's moral obligation is

(42:54):
and I think there's anunderlying note to what you
believe that within yourreligion represents and that's
really what we're representing.
You know what I'm sayingbecause you can't say you're,
you're a christian and but youare cool with this.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
And you can't say you're muslim, but you, this is.
You know this is haram.
You know I'm saying that.

(43:15):
You know, if we take that awayfrom the conversation, we'll
have a lot more in common.
But, as we know, people willlive and die behind their God
and I ain't got time to arguewith them about it.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
You know what I'm saying but it is an interesting
thought, if you take religionaway from that conversation, it
is a completely different Peopleinsert religion into the
conversation to make it awkwardfor you.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
That's the thing.
When they deal with an atheistor an agnostic who doesn't have
a dog in that race, now they.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
It's a mock offense yeah, they all kill things.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah, it's interesting a lot of what we
deal with in modern time,particularly with social media
and the way we communicate, isposturing.
Oh, absolutely, it is posturing.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Oh absolutely.
It's posturing.
All of social media isposturing.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
I try to be very careful not to be emotionally
engaged with peopleconversationally.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
You know what I'm saying.
Like I just try to make becauseI would give, I'd send the
wrong signal to you right now ifI argue with you, because you
would think I give a fuck morethan I really do.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (44:22):
So I would rather not even you think it's really
affecting your day.
Yeah, yeah absolutely no.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
No, it ain't even that serious bro.
I'm going to let you hold that.
You got it.
I'm going to let you hold that,yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
So over time though, with Rice, with advocacy efforts
, you have become somewhat.
I call you the mayor of Houstonat this point.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
I've had that thrown on me a lot.
I know what the job is for amayor.
I've been courted about it.
There's been studies.
You know people have put youknow feelers out and talked to
people and I've talked to acouple of people.
Out and talk to people and I'vetalked to a couple of people.
I had a good conversation withKasim when he was mayor in
Atlanta when it was backstageduring the OutKast reunion
concerts and I asked him.

(45:07):
I said you know, I've been.
I'm being vetted right now formayor.
I'm still trying to consider ifI even want the job.
I was like what is a job?
He says I'll be very honest,it's.
It's a lot of dealing withpeople that you don't want to
deal with on a daily basis.
He said there are so manyrepresentatives of so many
different groups.
He says it for your city.
Your city is twice as diverseas my city, so you've got to go.

(45:29):
You spend a lot of time justshaking hands and shaking hands
and trying to put out fires and,you know, trying to find some
balance between two differentpeople that want the same thing.
We just see two different paths.
But every now and then he saysthere's a little old lady with a
pothole and she's been askingpeople and asking people and
nobody helped her.
You might be in theneighborhood and you might run

(45:51):
over the pothole and get out andbe like what is this?
And that old lady will tell youI've been calling people, he
says, and you can make a calland somebody can come the next
day and fix that lady's pothole.
He said it's the littlevictories, bro.
He said there's not a lot ofbig victories.
And I talked to, you know,sylvester turner, you know, rest

(46:12):
in peace who was our mayor formany years, and he was like, bro
, you're a manager, so you justyou're managing the city, you're
managing the budget, you'remanaging egos and you're
managing emotions, he says, andthe first thing you realize is
that a lot of things you'd liketo do.
You can't even do that shit.
No like you, bumby ain't.

(46:32):
No more concerts for you no, hesaid you can't be somewhere on
stage and a fireman dying andyou got to you supposed to be.
When the city worker dies, youhave to go to that house and
inform that family and then,like if a cop or something gets
killed by a criminal son, I gotto go and talk to that family.
Then I got to go on TV and tellthe city we're going to get

(46:55):
this mother Like it's a lot, bro, it's a lot and it's a
thankless job.
The minute you choose to run JJWhite said it, I've said it
before, we said it separatelythe minute you choose to run for
office, half of the people inthe city that love you now hate
you on prison.
And it's resources.

(47:16):
A lot of people run for theoffice because of the resources
that are available, even thepeople that really want to
affect change.
You have to be in the game andhave to hold some kind of power,
some position, to really affectchange and then you get in
there.
But you have to do this to getthe change you want and it lends
itself to too much compromiseand as a person with my public

(47:38):
position, I can get to thoseresources right without having
to put myself in a compromisingposition, because I don't need
your votes in two years and allthat type of shit.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
So maybe stick to being the unofficial mayor,
could I?

Speaker 2 (47:52):
be the mayor?
Yeah, but that ain't a reasonto be the mayor.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
I don't think just because I could be the mayor,
that ain't no fucking reason tobe the mayor.
Yeah, I don't think justbecause I could be the mayor,
that ain't no fucking reason tobe the mayor I'm going to get
jammed up.
They're going to put a bunch ofshit on my desk, they're going
to wait until I'm busy, I'mgoing to sign some shit and next
thing you know, I'm going to beon a federal investigation in
three years because somebodymade $500, took $500, but made
it look like I took 50 orsomething.
No, I'm doing it over here, bro.

(48:18):
I'm good.
I'd rather be doing this typeof shit.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
So wait.
So tell me about how the ideafor Trail Burger started.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
That's what we got to get into.
I'm getting hungry thinkingabout it.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
So me and Premium Pete, I'm sure you're familiar
with Premium Pete.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
Of course, of course, of course.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
We met over sneakers, but we bonded over food, food.
Yeah, this is when I was stilleating like a fat dude and I was
always Pete, always wanted togo eat, which was always
mind-blowing to me becausePete's at least half my size.
Right Back then he might havebeen I might have been one and a
half heavier than Pete, but itwas a bottomless pig with this

(48:54):
dude.
The dude can eat you under thetable.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
And so he came up with the idea of like, no, let's
start a blog.
Let's start a blog because you,you're traveling, you're eating
a lot of shit, I'm traveling,I'm eating a lot of shit.
Like, let's show, I bet peoplewould love to see this shit,
because that's what we're doing,we're going places.
He's sending me pictures, I'msending him video, right, like
we should just do this.
You know, we were like at thevery least we might be able to

(49:20):
get a good restaurant tableright, build relationships, get
tables and restaurants.
Somebody might send us a newsnack right, like like baby d
and some shit.
She got the hostess cookingthat ain't out yet, type shit.
But it also ended up being likethis little guide to people
eating different types of food.
It kind of took on a life ofitself.
We have people that contributeto it now, and we created a

(49:44):
function of it with a hashtagwhat did you eat today?
That was the thing.
So we put that hashtag.
So anybody that postedsomething with that hashtag, we
would put it up on the site,that's cool.
So that just helped it grow,grow, more and more and more.
And then, at the same time,like we both wanted to be in the
food business but neither oneof us wanted a restaurant.

(50:07):
And when I say restaurant, Imean a menu with appetizers,
soups, salads, entrees, shareddishes, desserts, all of that
type of shit.
That's a lot of inventory, youknow.
I'm saying especially dependingon the cuisine you're trying to
do.
You know, and this is a very,very rough business.
It's a very, very roughbusiness.

(50:28):
Even for people with the kindof advantages that I've had,
it's still a very rough business.
Oh yeah, um, and so I put thatout.
And then I met Andy Wynn, oneof my partners, back during the
Magic Days in Vegas.
He had a clothing line called IAm King.
I met my other partner, nickSkirfield.
Nick was one of the hosts ofthe original Texans podcast,

(50:50):
okay, and we got close when theTexans played the Patriots, when
they wore the varsity jacketsto the game and walked.
They're like, well, I'm neverwearing a varsity jacket again,
type shit.
And we all got.
We got close separately, like Igot close with Andy, got close
with Nick.

(51:11):
Meanwhile Nick transitionedinto the marketing and
promotions business, andy gotinto the food business and
eventually Nick became one ofthe marketers and promotions
business.
Andy got into the food businessand eventually Nick became one
of the marketers for his brands.
Andy wanted to start a burgercompany.
The concept had a lot of energyin LA but Murder, she Wrote,
had all the momentum at the time.
So the LA burger things werepretty rushed.

(51:32):
So he kept trying to catch thetrend before it got nationwide.
So he's like if I don't catchit, it's in Oklahoma right now,
if I don't catch it in Texas,this thing's going to be.
I'm going to miss it.
And he felt he had a reallygood burger.
So he's like who can we partnerwith?
And Nick was like I think Bun'slooking for something.
So we sat down.
I tried the burger.
I thought it was great.
They were like give me a littlebit better.

(51:54):
It came back to me.
I was like what are we doing?
Like seriously, they were likewell, we can do pop-ups.
We can pay you X amount ofmoney to show up at the pop-ups.
You know what I'm saying.
Give you some royalties orsomething like that, or if you
want to jump in with us as apartner or whatever.
No-transcript, that was ano-brainer for me.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
No-brainer.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
You know.
So I just put everything, allthe energy I had into the burger
, getting it in front of people,like my job was to get people
to line up and get in there andtry the burger.
I knew if I could get them totry the burger, I got them.
That was it and it worked.
It actually was a concept thatworked.
It paid off.
It's still paying off.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
It does off.
You know and and it's anamazing thing like that concept
of an artist or athlete, or youknow somebody with some
notoriety, whoever that may be,you giving them the burger right
and you'll get a real-timereaction right there.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Yes, yeah, absolutely , that was the whole thing,
amazing marketing and I feltcomfortable enough to let people
like I wanted people to give metheir honest opinion of the
burger.
I think the lowest rating wegot was from Tyler.
Tyler gave us an 8.5.
Yes, sir, because he didn't.
But he didn't like picklesthough.
He liked pickles and onions.
But he came back the next dayand the day after that he got

(53:09):
the burger on a Friday atCoachella.
Came back Saturday, got it nopickles, no onions.
And then got it on Sunday justlike he wanted, and after that
he was like this burger's theshit.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
So the lowest rating.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
But he did it three days in a row, yeah, like I got
a bite but you didn't get theburger the way you wanted it.
And you can get the burger theway you want it.
I ask everybody to try it witheverything at the first bite,
because there's a flavorcombination, there's a texture
combination that goes with thatand you really don't get the
full experience.
I don't drink wine with food.
I don't drink wine at all.

(53:42):
So I've been told, like I'veonly been enjoying food maybe 70
, 75 percent because of no wineyeah, because I'm not pairing it
right I'm not pairing it withwith, with the right thing so,
but it's been, it's been a rideman, it's been.
You know it's a new love, it's anew passion.
Um, it's it's I'm.
It's been a ride man, it's been.
You know it's a new love, it'sa new passion, it's it's.
I'm still learning things.
You know what I'm saying.
I'm very new to it, so I'm justtrying to, you know, learn from

(54:05):
my mistake, listen to mypartners, trust my partners.
You know I've had issues withthat already, but it's something
.
I really believe that thiscould be a big thing.
I think this could create agenerational wealth for the
owners.
I think our children should.
They want to move in this space, either from the culinary

(54:27):
aspect or from a business aspect.
I think it's a great entrypoint.
My niece works there, my nephewworks there, red's daughter
works there, my granddaughterworks there.
It's a great summer job.
Yeah, it's a great summer jobfor people, but there's actually
a lot of room for growth inthis company.
This is very early.
My family couldn't, the kidscouldn't contribute to the music

(54:48):
that's already there.
They were born into that.
My grandkids, they were borninto that With this company.
They're here now, at thebeginning, at the ground floor.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
That's cool.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Absolutely, I'm like yo.
Do you want to take somebusiness classes?
Let me know I'll invest in thatif you bring that here.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
And you're having a lot of success, right.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
You were on.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
was it the Today Show ?
Did I have that right?
Yeah, won Best Burger inAmerica on Good America.
Sorry, good morning America.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
No, but we've had really great success.
I mean, we've collaborated with.
You couldn't have told me thatnothing in my life would have
had me partnering with Levi's,much less a burger.
You know what I'm saying.
Traveling around the world.
We did the burger in Malta.
Most people don't even knowwhere the fuck Malta is.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, godzilla, like a godzillacollaboration, like the

(55:42):
japanese godzilla.
Yeah, right, the original.
Like just so many differentthings, man, like the things
that we love to do outside ofburgers.
We've been able to do withburgers slowly but surely, and
it's, it's a fun ride, man.
I can't wait to see where thisshit go For real.
I think this burger has thepotential to be here longer than
me.
If I do it right, if I do thisright, it's going to be around a

(56:04):
long time.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
What's the big goal?
What's the big vision of it?
Do you want Trill Burgers to beall over the United States, all
over the world?
Where do you see it going?

Speaker 2 (56:13):
What's the future?
I would love to have enoughlocations to where, if people
want to try it, they can haveaccess to it.
That's the thing.
I feel like everyone in theworld should try a Trill Burger
at some point in their life,because they're missing out on
it.
Because a friend told me he'slike you know, your burger is

(56:33):
the best burger in the world.
I was like well, how do youknow that?
He's like because the bestburgers in the world come from
America, you have the bestburger in the world.
I was like how do you know that?
Because the best burgers in theworld come from America, you
have the best burger in America.
That's technically the bestburger in the world.
I've been to some places.
I've found some badass burgers.
I went to Paris for FashionWeek last year.

(56:55):
I found a little spot, a verynondescript spot, a nondescript
road, and that motherfucker wasclose.
I was like that motherfuckerwas close.
I was like yo this bitch isgood.
I was like this bitch is good.
And I was talking to the chefand I showed the chef who we

(57:15):
were and showed him that and hewas like so you're checking
competition?
And I showed the chef who wewere and showed him that and he
was like so you're checkingcompetition?
I said yeah, because I really.
I said in my mind I reallydon't think anybody can make
something close to what we do.
I don't think anybody's gettingclose.
I said this is very, very close.
I would not want to deal withyour burger like at a customer

(57:35):
on a daily basis, because itcould go either way Like this.
But I think you know with us,you know you pay for the burger,
but there's a lot of culturethat you get for free, of course
, of course, and it provides anentry point for people who want
to go deeper.
There's a lot of people inHouston that go to Trillburg's
and eat the burger.
They ain't never what UGK is.
They don't have any frame ofreference for that shit.

(57:57):
They probably had it at therodeo All they know is people
said this was a good burger.
They ate it.
It was a good burger.

Speaker 3 (58:08):
They come because they want to get a good burger.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
We get the flatbed trucks with the four flags and
somebody coming in like, yeah,you guys could use some MAGA
merch in here.
No, Trump Burger's around thecorner.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
Exactly there I could use some.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
MAGA merch in here and, all you know, trump
Burger's around the corner.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
Exactly Like there's a Trump Burger?

Speaker 2 (58:21):
here Is there, yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
You have a Trill Burger and a Trump Burger.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Yeah, there's a Trump Burger, probably less than a
mile away.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
No.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
Yeah, probably about a mile away About a mile away.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
Wow, wow, I didn't know that, and they're already
in legal trouble.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
They lawsuits against each other.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
I was getting hungry and now you had to bring that up
.
Let me ask you this question.
You're an entrepreneur, you'rean educator, you're a mentor,
you're an artist.
What advice would you give to ayoung person who's getting into
the music business, who's anentrepreneur?
What's the one thing that youwould say then, do this or think

(58:56):
about this.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
Think about where your equity translates, and when
I say that, what I mean is thatrealize where they know you and
where they trust you and see ifyou have anything else to offer
those people in that way.
The only reason I would haveeven allowed this burger to be

(59:18):
called Trill Burgers is becauseI felt it was Trill, Because we
can question a lot of differentthings about this burger, but if
we got to question the idea ofwhether it's Trill or not, we've
already lost.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
You lost, yeah, you lost.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
So Trill Burger would not work with somebody outside
of me, because the first thingwe're going to ask is what makes
you who told you you was TrillType of thing Before we even get
to the burger, talk to me aboutthis Trill shit, what you know
about Trill.
People are going to ask youabout that.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
People are going to question that shit.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Somebody's going to approach you about that, you
know.
But I think at the end of theday, we realize that this burger
is now a cultural export, likethis burger is.
In the same way that peopleargue about who the favorite

(01:00:14):
rapper is, people are arguingabout what rappers do in the
best business and all that typeof shit.
You know you got, but I got along way to catch up with
vitamin water and all thesedifferent champagnes and all
that type of shit.
You know, but give me a minute.
Give me a minute because you'reon the way.
You definitely I'm on the way,and the reason I know because
I'm in a space now where I get,when people come and try the

(01:00:36):
burger and I get two differentanswers.
People that just really like theburger and be like man, this is
a really, really good burger.
It's a badass burger.
People that are likeentrepreneurs and
business-minded people.
They try it and they say yougot something Like.
You got something Like.
This is a pure product.
This is a very real, legitimateproduct.
It's not a fraud.

(01:01:00):
And you know I'm saying thisburger lives in spaces that I
never am in.
You know I'm saying like Ican't be in there every day to
sell this burger.
This burger's got to live onits own it's got to stand on its
own too you know I'm sayingdave, can't sell you wendy's
every goddamn day.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
No, great crock can't go to every mcdonald's.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
You know I'm saying so this burger has to be
legitimately real and peoplerealize.
Because you eat this burger andthen you go home and you try to
eat another burger.
You fucked up, yeah, you'relike this is the thing.
You're fucked up, and it's notjust the fact that it's a smash
burger.
You go and eat just anothergeneral burger in terms of the
flavor combination.

(01:01:34):
You know what I'm saying.
This burger.
If you take everything off ofthis burger, just eat the patty,
it's good food.
You can't say that withprobably 85 90% of the burgers
out there.
Bro, it's frozen meat.
You know what I'm saying?
If it's meat at all, rightexactly if it's really meat.

(01:01:55):
So that's why scale for us isnot a rush like we're gonna grow
this company as big as we can,Exactly if it's really meat.
So that's why scale for us isnot a rush Like we're going to
grow this company as big as wecan, while giving people a
quality product.
Yeah, keeping the quality andthen at some point it's just
going to be like you know, we'regoing to have to partner with a
farmer.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying,like, because I mean we sell a
lot of food, bro.
I can imagine we we sell a lotof food, bro.

(01:02:16):
I can imagine we sell a lot offood at the store.
And then when the footballseason starts, it's even crazy,
crazy, crazy time, because we'reopen on Sunday at noon at the
stores while we're open in thestadium.
In the stadium, yeah, and we'reselling thousands of burgers in
the stadium in that three,three and a half hour period.
Yeah, well, four and a halfhour, because they started

(01:02:37):
letting people in at 11 o'clock.
We got to have food ready to goat 11 o'clock.
It's a lot, bro.
It's a lot that we do.
It's hard work, but it's alegitimate brand.
People getting good shit,people getting real good food.
They can bring their friends toa game.
It don't matter who you'rerooting for.
That Trill Burger is going tobe right on time.
It's going to hit regardless.

(01:02:57):
It's going to hit man.
You don't have to go.
That's the thing, too, aboutTrill Burger.
You don't have to go to the.
I don't want to have somethingwhere you got to go to the good
one.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
Yeah, the one on 54 is all right, but the one over
River Oaks, that's the one youdon't want to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
I get people wanting to come to the flagship because
obviously it's built aroundexperience.
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Yeah, you want to go to the original the other stores
.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Really, people just want to get their burger and go
home the flagship store is for.
Yeah, that's right, baby.
We in Trill Burger.
You know what I'm saying?
It's going down Money Bum B.
I see you, baby, that type ofshit and I want to afford that
to people.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Because we get new tourists to Houston every day.
I'm sure Like, look at oursports teams, bro.
Yeah, all three of our sportsteams could potentially be
perennial playoff.
You know what I'm saying?
Teams for the next few years.
You know we get a lot of newchicks.
The home of Beyonce, and that'sthe crazy thing.
Like Beyonce tours all over thecountry but everybody assumes

(01:03:56):
wrongly, as we find out now.
Everybody thinks Houston'sgoing to get something extra.
Even Houston thought that.
So to see Paris get it.
So everybody was like oh, weknow, we finna get it in Houston
.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
We didn't get nothing .

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
I think Atlanta might have been a week later bro.

Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
It was, it was, it was like a week later A week,
later, that dude came out, hovecame out and they broke out the
horse and it was like, oh my God.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
I was like come on and they almost killed her in
the fake slab.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
That's what Houston did.
Yeah, it's too much.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
But no, it's been a fun ride, man.
We're still excited about it.
We still got a lot to learn.
It's going to be some moregrowing pains because as we
scale, we're at four now, we'llprobably go up to six to eight,
possibly next year.
Once we get to that point,we're going to have to have some
conversations.
There's only so muchself-funding you can do at a

(01:04:53):
certain point.
If you don't come into thiscrazy liquid and you don't want
to be spending your money doingyour business.
I know that's richest.
That's not how they're doing itexactly what I'm saying.
So so we're figuring out how tomaneuver that type of stuff, but
we're getting better at it.
But we don't want to build ourbenefits around mandatory growth

(01:05:16):
, like I see in the sneakerbusiness.
Like you have a sneaker storeand you'd be like, okay, you
guys get two size runs, you'regoing to get 24 pair of the new
shoe.
How do I get more pairs?
You got to open another store.
I can only give you this perstore.
So if you want more shoes thatmake more money, you got to open
more stores, which creates moreoverhead and more expense and
all of that.

(01:05:36):
So to get more money, you gotto open another store.
So it becomes a whole thing.
So we just have to rely on amodel that we can handle.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
So we can keep hands on it,because I've seen a lot of great
people build up some amazingbrands right here in the city of
Houston and bring in investorsand bring in finance groups, and
one thing doesn't work and youknow, people lose.

(01:05:58):
People lose their share intheir stake in their stuff and
then the restaurant goes on andstill got your grandmother's
name on the goddamn door and youain't got nothing.
It's a lot you know and look,I'm no better.
I can look back and see that Ididn't make a lot of the right
business calls for certainthings because I was uneducated.
But that's on me.
It's on me to educate myselfabout this.

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
You live and learn, so you live and learn but it
doesn't deter me.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
That one thing I can say none of the mistakes that
I've made in life have everdeterred me from going in a path
where I could potentially makea mistake again on the way to
success, If I feel I can getthere.
It's going to be hard to stopme from trying.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
Yeah, tom, you want to do the announcement.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
I mean, we got to stop talking about food, because
I'm starving now and I want aburger so bad and they do not
have one right here yet.
But I'm going to get one.
But, yes, we got a bigannouncement, folks, right?
Yes, you want to start us,jeffrey?

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
So well, you go, you go, well you go, you go, and
I'll jump in.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
I'll go, I'll go.
Yeah, you go, Bun, you go.
So this beautiful backdrop thatyou see behind me, this is, if
you've ever seen me do anyinterviews or any, if you saw me
on Shannon Sharp and Nightcapand all of that this is the
backdrop.
This is Bun B's guestappearance guest interview
backdrop.

(01:07:17):
But I'm going to have to find anew backdrop because next week
I'm not going to be a guest.
I am actually going to be ahost with you, gentlemen, on
Glossy and we are partnering upto bring more content to the
Merrick Studios family.
I am excited about this.
It's a long time coming for me,because one thing that I always

(01:07:39):
say I don't want to die withthe game I've been given right.
So I need some kind of outletto get out here and get this
game and at the same time, I'min new spaces, so I still got
some game I need to learn.
Mm-hmm so you know, we got tohave these conversations in
order to give and to get right.
So what better place to do it,and what better partners to do

(01:08:00):
it, than right here in MerrickStudios with you guys on
Unglassy man?

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
I don't think we could have said that better.
Welcome, welcome, bambi.
I'm thrilled, I'm excited, I'mready to learn from you, I'm
ready to tease you a little bit,I'm ready to go at you a little
bit.
I'm up for it.
I think we're going to havesomething really interesting
here.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
I'm just going to have to start going into the
office because my wife says Italk too much.
A lot Queenie always says Italk too much.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
Well, now we're going to put a mic in front of you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
All you got to do is know the right question to ask
you, and you're going to talkall day.

Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
Yes, so now that's my job.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
That the right question to ask people.
I'm going to have to interviewQueenie so I can get more
information about how tointerview people and how to get
that content out of people.
I'm excited, man.
I'm excited.
I think, with all respect toRolodex, I think we can bring
some amazing guests on here withsome very unique perspectives,

(01:08:53):
very particular walks of life.
I have a lot of differentpeople that I've been friends
with that I've had casualconversations with about certain
things, but never really satdown and got into the mind of
some of these guys.
I've had friends who were justup-and-coming comedians when I
met them and now they'reworldwide phenomenons and guys
that were backup guys or thiefnumber three in a movie and now

(01:09:18):
their title, their name's on thetop of the marquee and their
producers and directors andwriters and all of these
different things now.
And it'd be like I met amotherfucker in 03 and I'd see
him again in 2015.
And he's a whole nother person.
I mean I will you know, and Inever get the time to really ask
these people, man, like whatthe fuck happened bro?
Like really ask these people,man, like what the fuck happened

(01:09:44):
bro?
Like how did this shit, how didthat shit go?
Like, man, dude, I was here,I'm this part, you know I'm
saying so, and there's somepeople who I've met that have
really interesting stories abouthow they got where they've
gotten to, and I think otherpeople need to hear that shit.
You know what I'm sayingbecause I was surprised about
what I've learned from differentpeople, from doing, like, I
think you know, like you meetsomebody you think, oh, you must
be good at this because you dothis.
Oh no, I never did that shitbefore in my life.
I met somebody.
I kind of fumbled my way intothis thing and then found what

(01:10:07):
they all it's.
It's all about that moment whenthey, they like when it clicked
for them.
You know, like people ask meall the time when did you think
that?
When did this click for you?
I tell people, as an artist, itclicked when I got signed right
as a musician, it clicked when,for me, the, the, the menace
called.
That's when I was like, okay,these are people who don't

(01:10:30):
necessarily know and they're wegetting a totally different
opportunity that, even as amusician with a record deal, you
, you don't get to do this.

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
Yeah, so it's different.

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
And then and then, honestly, man, like big pimping,
as a record changed the way Iget to live in this world,
because there's there's very fewplaces that I can't go to and
say I did this record and then Ior go in.
There's not a club I've everbeen in on the planet where that
record didn't come on and thatrecord didn't go.

(01:11:00):
I've never seen it.
Language barriers, culturalbarriers all of that shit.
That song cut through, bro.
It's a very unique experience.
I love to talk to other peopleabout their big pimping moment,
or when did they find theirburger?
You know what I'm saying?
That's what I tell everybody Gofind your burger bro, go find
your burger, bro, I love that.

(01:11:20):
Get out here and go for it, butyou got to go for it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
You got to go, and that's what we're doing with
this.
We're going for it.
I think I found another burger.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
And that's the thing when you actually dream for
something and chase it and catchit, you start running after all
that shit.
Now I'm a dog chasing taxi cabsand shit, Exactly Because I
caught one.
I caught a car, bro.
Now I feel like I can catch allof them.
You ever catch a fly.
You think you're Mr MiyagiRobert, I think I can catch them

(01:11:53):
all now.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
We're building something special here.
I'm excited that you're onboard.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
I think we're like-minded people, but I think
we have different perspectives.
I think we're interested in alot of the same things.
I think we're curious about howdifferent people kind of walk
their walk, and I think that wecan get some great interviews
done because we're going to bethinking similarly but
approaching differently.
Yeah, and I think the key wordyou just said that thinking
similarly but approachingdifferently yeah.

(01:12:19):
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
And I think the key word you just said that about
all of Merrick Studios iscuriosity.
There's so much curiosity,there's so many great stories
out there and we want to be ableto help people tell them.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
Me too, man, I'm in, I'm here, I'm in, I'm in.
So take a look guys.
This is it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
The new face of unglassy baby this is it?

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
no?
Right there?
No, and there's more to.
Come and look.
If you guys are watching thisand you guys think you got some
good content, yeah, come with us.
You know what I'm saying wecan't do it all by ourselves.
We would love to put somepeople in position.
There's probably somebodywatching this right now.
That's got a great idea and agreat approach to conversation
that nobody's even consideringright now.
Right, and we want to hearabout that.
We want to meet you.

(01:13:01):
We want to see your bubblypersonality and hear your voice
and and just be sold on thisthing and get behind you and
support you.

Speaker 3 (01:13:08):
That's what we want.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
So, tap in with us, enjoy the shows and if you got
some shows, pitch them let's see, let's see what we come up with
Guys.
Thanks so much for thisinterview.
It's amazing.
Thanks so much for thisopportunity to transition into
something new.
I'm excited.

Speaker 3 (01:13:22):
We're super excited, man bro.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
We are honored and excited.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to work with
you.
No, problem.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
So I guess we'll all see you guys on the next episode
.
We'll see you on the nextexpert and.

Speaker 4 (01:13:36):
I got to go get a burger right now.
Won't be the best burger.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
I'll come and get yours soon, though.
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
All right, folks, that's ourshow.
Tune in to Unglossing thecoding brand and culture on
Apple Podcasts, spotify orYouTube, and follow us on
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