Chris Shepherd: Houston, Hustle, and Taste

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_07 (00:00):
Last week on Unglossy.

SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
Everybody, let's celebrate.
Celebrate every single day youwake up.
If you wake up, your eyes open,you got your faculties, you're
alert.
Celebrate.
And in that moment, you'rehappy, right?
In the moment of celebration,you are happy.
Yeah.
Unless you got the lessnegativity out there, because we
can't change nothing else outthere.

(00:22):
We can change what's in here,though.
We can change our heart feels.
We can change how we feel here.
Let's do that.
Let's work.
Let's work on that together.
Everything else.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (00:38):
From the top.

SPEAKER_07 (00:39):
I'm Tom Frank.

SPEAKER_05 (00:40):
I'm Jeffrey Slick.

SPEAKER_03 (00:41):
And I'm Bud B.
Welcome to Unglossy.

SPEAKER_07 (00:44):
Real stories, unfiltered dialogue, and the
voices moving culture beyond thegloss, pipe, and headlines.
So buckle up.
Unglossy starts next.
Alright, fellas, we are back foranother Unglossy.
We're rolling at this point.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00):
This is old hat to me now.

SPEAKER_07 (01:02):
Oh, you got it down.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05):
I'm here fully.
I got the beginner, the beginnerepisodes, you know, out of my
system.
I feel like I'm raring to go.
You're ready to go.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm feeling good, man.
And I'm I'm getting some goodresponses too.
Like people are like, yeah, thisis this is pretty dope.
B I'm coming.
And I like it though, but I likeit.
And again, you know, this isjust what we're doing at
Unglossy.

(01:26):
We're doing a lot of otherthings at Merrick Studios as
well.
Absolutely.
Please stay tuned.
We're trying to onboard some newcontent.
And uh I'm I'm excited about thefuture.
I really am.
Yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_07 (01:39):
I I like that people didn't see it coming.

SPEAKER_03 (01:41):
Yeah, people know I'm a very reserved kind of guy.
You know what I'm saying?
I'm not I'm definitely not theguy that likes to hear himself
talk, but I love to talk.
Especially with like-mindedpeople.
I'm in this stage now,obviously, just wanting to learn
everything I can find under thesun.
I'm absolutely I'm a sponge.
I'm just absorbing knowledgeright now.

(02:02):
And and this is a great place togain knowledge, and it's a great
place to see it out loud aswell.
So I think we gotta, I think wegot something here, guys.
I think we do.
I mean, it was talking when Igot here, but I I want to make
sure I'm helping bring thisthing to the next level.

SPEAKER_05 (02:17):
To the next level.
No, we could.
We got it.
We got it.
We got it.
I think Jeff got the big pointmic today.
I was saying mic, I thought Iwas just adding it to the side
so you could never really seeit.
But I thought it was.

SPEAKER_03 (02:26):
Ah, I see all the fancy management.

SPEAKER_05 (02:28):
Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (02:29):
All the mics and whatnot, you know.
Okay.

SPEAKER_07 (02:32):
Speaking of, I guess, mics and even more so,
great guests that we can learn alot from.
We got one today.
Today, we welcome Chris Shepard.
He's both a James BeardAward-winning chef as well as
one of Houston's most celebratedculinary treasures.
He's known for his bubblypersonality and his love for the
city.
He's held court at some ofHouston's best restaurants, and

(02:53):
his Korean goat dumplings.
I would like to try those, areregarded as the single best dish
in town.
Wow.
In 2015, due to the healthconcern of his friend and former
Sumaya.
Am I saying that?
Thank you.
Thank you.
I gotta learn how to say words.
Who suffered from MS.
He and his wife, Lindsay Brown,founded the Southern Smoke

(03:14):
Foundation, which was started toraise money for MS.
In 2017, it extended itsservices to help chefs and
restaurant staff get throughhard times caused by natural
disasters and othercircumstances, eventually
helping out not only theaffected people in Houston, but
wherever help was needed.
He also produces the annualSouthern Smoke Festival, a
fundraising effort that bringsin some of the biggest chefs

(03:35):
around the country, like RodneyScott and Aaron Franklin.
All this, and he still findstime for his TV show, Eat Like a
Local, where he introducesviewers to the people and places
that make dining in Houston sucha great experience.
Welcome, Dunglossi, Chef, ChrisShepard.

SPEAKER_02 (03:51):
Thanks for having me.
You know, amazing.
So this is gonna be another showwhere I end up being hungry.

SPEAKER_05 (03:59):
Chris, I got one question to ask you.
I might get you in trouble.

SPEAKER_04 (04:04):
Right from the get-go.
Right from the get go right outthe back.

SPEAKER_05 (04:09):
Exactly.
Gotcha journalism, exactly.
So uh I read that you were uhborn in Nebraska but raised in
Oklahoma, correct?
Yes, sir.
So the thunder or the rockets.

SPEAKER_02 (04:21):
Rockets always.
Rockets.

SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
100%.
You're leaving your hometownteam?

SPEAKER_02 (04:27):
That wasn't there when I left.
When I left Oklahoma, they werestill in Seattle.
So I would have been asupersonics, you know.
Gotcha.
I've been fine with that too.
Gotcha.

SPEAKER_05 (04:35):
You know what?

SPEAKER_02 (04:35):
I'm glad that Oklahoma has that.
But yeah, no, I'm uh I'm uhNebraska Cornhusker and Houston,
Texan.
You know, that's how it works.

SPEAKER_03 (04:44):
You see, where I was going, Jeff, I thought you were
going Corn Husker or sooner.

SPEAKER_05 (04:49):
That's a good one too, though.
That would have been equallygood, yeah.
That's a good one too.

SPEAKER_04 (04:52):
Go big red.
That's what I thought.
I'm a Nebraska guy.

SPEAKER_05 (04:55):
Nebraska guy.
Okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 (04:58):
I can take that.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (04:59):
There's ups and downs, you know.
It's uh, you know, I I have aheart, I'll be honest with you,
and this is an unpopular opinionbecause my wife went there.
I am not a UT fan, mainlybecause of their contract back
in the day where they destroyedthe Big 12.

SPEAKER_05 (05:14):
They did.
Oh wow.

SPEAKER_07 (05:15):
I can understand and I can appreciate that.
That's a high thing.

SPEAKER_02 (05:18):
You know what, everybody that's like that wait
till you see, they're like,yeah, I get that.
You know what?
Because then all of a sudden Igot I gotta go Nebraska
Northwestern or NebraskaPennsylvania.
I don't get my Nebraska OU orNebraska Kansas.
I don't get that anymore.

SPEAKER_05 (05:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (05:31):
You know, so you know, and now it's all changed.
You know, you get SEC and whathave you, but yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (05:36):
Yeah, okay, okay.
That that's for a whole notherpodcast because I have a lot of
opinions on college sports rightnow because it does drive me a
little crazy.
I'm not gonna get I'm not gonnatry I'm trying to I'm gonna try
not to get worked up about it.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (05:47):
Although as I sit and watch UT, I love their
coach, I love what they'redoing, so it's hard for me to
really be angry anymore.
Okay.

SPEAKER_07 (05:56):
So you grew up in Oklahoma though.
You got to tell us a little bitabout you know your upbringing
and kind of some of the firstfoods that grabbed you.

SPEAKER_02 (06:05):
So yeah.
Um born in Nebraska, grew up inTulsa for sure, and you know,
didn't I wasn't a good student.
I wasn't really, I didn't reallynothing challenged me.
And then it's funny, I I got Ididn't know what I wanted to do
when I got done with highschool.
And you know, my friends arelike, you should go to business
school.
And I'm like, what am I gonnabusiness?
Like, I don't know what thatmeans.

(06:26):
Like, what are you telling me todo?
Like what what happens after Ibusiness degree it?

SPEAKER_07 (06:30):
And so um business degree it.

SPEAKER_04 (06:33):
I don't know what that meant.

SPEAKER_02 (06:34):
And so I don't want to do anybody's taxes, I don't
want to and I I ended up goingto like Tulsa Junior College,
and after uh about a year of notactually going to class and just
going and playing like um uhping pong in the student union,
like they were like, maybe youshould take some time off and
figure out what you want to do.
You're just giving us money tobail everything.
And um, so I took a job as adishwasher in a sushi bar in

(06:59):
Tulsa in 1993, which wasarguably uh maybe the only sushi
bar in Oklahoma at that time.
Because sushi wasn't a big thingback then, right?
No, man, it wasn't.
It was a small little spot in astrip center and run by a
Japanese chef, and you know, hedid all the things right, man.
He was fine as fishing two,three days a week from LAX, you

(07:19):
know, coming from the Japanesemarket.
It just was before its time, andyou know, at one point, you
know, after scrubbing eel potsand peeling shrimp for you know
nine months or ten months, likethe tempura guy didn't come.
And so I got I got a I gotelevated to tempura and then
working saute in the grill.
And then I asked my boss, I waslike, Can I work behind the

(07:41):
sushi bar?
And he's like, No, you need togo to culinary school.
And I was like, I don't evenknow what that is.
And he's like, It's where theyteach you to cook.
And uh my parents had moved toOakland or to Houston.
My dad was in the oil business acouple years before that.
So I was like, you know, thiswas 95, so it was like you
weren't searching the web forlike curriculums you had to mail
off and get the things and fromcolleges, and I started looking

(08:03):
at all them.
I was like, well, the artinstitute in Houston has
basically the same setup as theCIA in New York, and I get free
rent because my parents arethere.
So I moved to Houston with theaspect of going to school and
then moving back to Tulsa tostart my career.
Well, the educated one, I guess,or after culinary school.

(08:23):
But uh I soon realized I wentback and started interviewing
before I graduated, and I waslike, man, I can either be a
small fish in a really big pond,or I could be a big fish in a
small pond.
And so I was like, I'm alwaysgonna take the small fish in the
big pond.
There's more room to grow.

(08:44):
I fell I fell in love with thecity, I fell in love with
Houston, I fell in love with thediversity, the product, the
people, and the restaurants, andyeah, it just there was no way I
was going to do it.
Wow.
Did you always have a few yearsago?

SPEAKER_05 (08:54):
Where did you start a passion for cooking?
Or it was just you just tookthis job and it it sparked
something in it.

SPEAKER_02 (09:00):
No, it was it was one of those things I didn't
realize it was a career, right?
And and this was before the foodnetwork, this was before, you
know, the food network was justin like 95 taking off.
You know, and you got Emeraldand Bobby Flay's first, you
know, two hot tamales, and youknow, it wasn't really there
wasn't really it wasn't what itis now, right?

(09:22):
They definitely paved the pathfor cooking to be pretty cool,
right?
And I remember telling myfriends that said you should go
to business school.
I was like, I'm going to cookingschool.
They're like, Why?
You know, it's like I don't seeit.
There's what are you gonna cookat home?
Like, what are you doing?
Like you're gonna learn how tomake cakes for the family?
I was like, No, I think this isa thing.

(09:42):
And and so it really it was themoment of like me growing up and
my parents, my mom alwayscooked, and my grandparents, my
mom, my grandmother same.
And I would just I rememberbeing a kid laying on the floor
in the kitchen reading cookbookswhile they were why my mom was
cooking, and um you know theywere very thoughtful with me and
helped me.
The first book that I ever gotwas the Walt Disney cookbook,

(10:04):
and it they gave it to me inlike 1978, and that's the only
thing that I have kept my entirelife.
Wow, there's a tons of cookbooksat my house for sure.
Thousands, but there's only onethat's on a pedestal and on
display, and it's that one.
And so, yeah, it's like youknow, how to make a grilled
cheese sandwich, or you know,they had the Dagwood special and

(10:26):
it would show you how to makethe thousand layers, you know,
whatever, and it had all thecartoon characters from Disney
at that time having recipes init.
So, you know, for for aneight-year-old, it was it was
perfect for me.

SPEAKER_05 (10:36):
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (10:36):
Six, I guess.
Wow.
And so that, but I didn'trealize that cooking was an
actual career until like therewas culinary school, and then I
was like, oh, this is a thing.
And then it was likeaccountability, and it was like,
you know, if you were latetwice, you're done.
You know, you start over again,and it was like, okay, this is a
thing.
Like there is there's there'smore to this than I thought, and

(10:57):
then it was like I'll neverforget the first day they were
like, anybody in here know whata consumer is?
And I was like, I have no ideawhat you just said, zero
knowledge.
Uh-huh.
I have uh it was like blankslate for me, and and it was the
best thing that I ever did.
Wow.

SPEAKER_03 (11:11):
What was it about about culinary school that made
you think this is me?
Like, this is where I'm supposedto be.
Like, I'm meant to be a chef.
When was that when did thatlight come on and be like this
is exactly where I'm supposed tobe?

SPEAKER_02 (11:25):
It was all the things you know that you say
that you you're told you can'tdo, right?
Play with your food, use knives,play with fire, like and it
really just enthralled me withlike transformation of product
and using more than just yourmind, but using all of your
senses.
And it's like, well, I may notbe able to think through this as
fast, but I sure as heck when Itaste it, no.

(11:47):
Or I can feel it and no.
And it it's I can see it and Iknow, I can smell it and I know.
And so it was like for me, itwas the all-encompassing thing
of being able to just be betterthrough not using one thing in
my my system, right?
I could use it all.

SPEAKER_03 (12:04):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah.
No, it absolutely does becauseyou think you know, cooking is
just you get the ingredients,you put it in a pie, you you mix
it up, and it should come outlike that.
But the ingredi, the notice ofthe ingredients, like dealing
with vegetables, making sureyou've got right vegetables, you
know, making sure you've gotgood, clean uh meat and whatnot,
just making sure you'reunderstanding how to pick

(12:25):
product, right?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (12:26):
Well, and and and my wife will say it now, she's
like, You're I am terrible,absolutely terrible at reading
recipes, following recipes, orwriting recipes.
Like, absolutely horrid.
But if you put product in frontof me and I just see it, right?
And it's like most of the timewhen I'm cooking at the house,

(12:47):
like I'll go to the store orwhatever, buy stuff, or even at
the restaurants, and then it'slike, why did you think of that?
And like it just made sense tome.
And it's literally likelistening to the product and
understanding like this is atechnique that should this
should be for, or this is aflavor profile pro flavor
profile that this should be for,and it's working those things
in.

SPEAKER_07 (13:06):
I think it's interesting what you said about
the five senses, too, because wewe talked to um Marcus Samuelson
uh uh ways ago, and one of thethings that really grabbed me
about him is he he was sayingwhen he would cook, he could
close his eyes and literallyhear the way something was
sizzling right, and would knowexactly where it was, when it
was done, which always amazed mebecause it was about hearing,

(13:29):
seeing, tasting, smelling.
It was all the senses that kindof helped him figure out and
because we all think of it as asBun said, I'm just reading
instructions and doing what it'ssaying, but I never think about
it from that perspective.

SPEAKER_02 (13:41):
It's like I'll read it, I I buy way too many
cookbooks to the point of mywife has a one-in, one-out rule
now, which I don't really Idon't really follow that.
I just they're out in thegarage, I find other places.
Yeah, she knows, but it's it'sone of these things like I'll
look at something and I'll justlook at the title, I'm like,
okay, I get this, and then allof a sudden it's other things
spurt spark from there.

(14:02):
And then it's like once you andthis is I think what a lot of
home cooks don't or young cookstoo don't understand is that
it's repetition.
And once you feel comfortablewith yourself and you believe in
yourself, like most of the time,like we're doing dinner parties
or I'm making dinner, I don'ttaste it.
I just know I can smell it.
And it's like Marcus said, youcan hear it.
You hit you use your othersenses to to bring something to

(14:24):
the fold.
So it's like I may taste it atthe very end, I'm like, yep,
nailed it, we're good.
You know, but it's not like aprocess that goes through.
As you go through, you know whatyou're doing, and that's just
through repetition and havingconfidence in who you are as a
cook.

SPEAKER_04 (14:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (14:37):
Was there any dish that you ran across in culinary
school for the first time thatwas like, okay, this is a little
bit left field, like if it's aChateaubriand or a Wellington or
Coco Van or some kind of dishthat you're like, why can't I
nail this?

SPEAKER_02 (14:52):
It you know, for me, everything at culinary school
was a blank slate because Ididn't know anything.
I was like, I don't know whatyou're talking about all the
time.
So I was literally like a childwith open eyes, like, just give
me everything.
And it was, I was like, I needto absorb everything.
And you know, for at culinaryschool, it was funny because
they were like, you should notgo to school and work a

(15:14):
full-time job.
And I'm like, I don't understandthat.
I know how hard this industrycan be, and you're telling me
not to be hard on myself now toget myself used to it, and so
like I lived in Clear Lake, andculinary school was in the
galleria, so that's 45 minutesplus traffic, right?
And so my day consisted of getup at 5 a.m.

(15:36):
be gone and be at school by 7,and then leave class by 2 so I
could get to work at 3, get homeby 11:30 or 12, do some
homework, shower, and get to bedand do it again at 5.
Like and that's that's the life,right?

(15:56):
So why would you I don't whywould you not do that, right?
That's the understanding.
And so like everything that Iput my time so to answer your
question, Bill and likeeverything I saw was a challenge
to me.
And it was like, okay, roastinga chicken was the most beautiful
thing I've ever done.
And then I just did it all thetime.
And and it was understandingthat one time doesn't make you

(16:18):
good at it, doing it a thousandtimes makes you good at it.
And the Chateaubriand is stilldelicious, and like all the
things you mentioned, I love acocoa van, like, but I want to
think of it in a differentstyle, right?
I don't know if I necessarilywant to eat real old, I do want
to eat older chickens.
Let's say that.
I do, and that's the purpose ofthat.
Because I like to try that.
I want to eat eight-year-olddairy cows that have done

(16:40):
processed and like now I want totry it all.
You know, weird.

SPEAKER_05 (16:45):
That's not weird.
That's not weird at all.

SPEAKER_03 (16:48):
So, where do you land when you're coming out of
culinary school?
Where do you land first?
Like what kitchen do you land infirst?

SPEAKER_02 (16:55):
So, when I was going to school, I got a job at
Houston Country Club, workingunder a master chef and doing
banquets, and like you're doingparties for 200 to a thousand to
if not more, and like icesculptures all over the place
and doing proper technique foreverything.
And you know, and then I I butliving in Clear Lake that was a
that was hard.
Um because just the transit.

(17:17):
And so I I took a job at arestaurant called Tommy's Patio
Cafe, which is still there, it'suh Tommy's something though.
They dropped the patio apart anddid that for a little bit, and
then took a job at BentwaterCountry Club up in Willis.
And this was the greatest thing,right?
Because I sat down next to justa human that like pushed me to

(17:37):
be better, right?
And uh Randy.
And we started day one together,and we just every day was like
push each other to be learnmore, push each other to like
you didn't do that knife cutproperly, or whatever it was.
And he took a job at Brennan's,and I was up at Bentwater, and
it was because at that time Iwas married, and I was I got my

(17:59):
first salary position, makingseventeen thousand dollars a
year.
Yeah, I mean, I'm telling you,this industry pays.
Uh I got insurance, and so butI'll never forget Randy lived up
in that area, that's why I gotthat job.
And he came by one night afterservice, and it was a Saturday

(18:21):
night.
And he called me, he's like,Man, I'm gonna swing by on the
way home.
I was like, all right.
And we're sitting there, andhe's like, Man, we did 450
covers tonight.
Just got pushed around allnight.
It was awful.
He's like, What'd you do?
And I was like, I put out themember taco buffet and left by
eight.
And he was like, What the whatare you doing with your life?

(18:42):
And I was like, that is a verygood question.
And so I ended up two weekslater work starting working with
him at Brennan's, and I workedthere for nine years.
And um, you know, that was atthat point in time I had Mark
Hawley as my sous chef, and hewas just such a mentor to me.
Um, but you know, it was likecooks these days don't do this,
whereas like you're getting justpushed around seven on a Friday

(19:07):
night in the middle of service,and you're playing culinary
trivia with the other cooks,like, name this sauce.
And like it was just like it wasalways constantly learned and
constantly like pushing yourselfto be better.
At that point, I spent sevenyears in the kitchen, and in my
off time, I wanted to learnabout wine, and I had started

(19:27):
that at the very beginning whenI went to culinary school.
Like, there's a magazine calledFood and Wine.
I probably should know a littlebit about both.
And yeah, and so I always, youknow, had wine in my future and
and and tasting and learning.
So uh I already passed my firstlevel in the quartermaster
somier's, and I was like, justout of like I wanted to do it.

(19:48):
And our wine buyer was leaving,and I looked at the our GM Chef
Carl, and I was like, Can I takeover the wine program?
And uh so I ran the wine programfor two years and then opened
another restaurant calledCatalan and then Underbelly, and
then so on and so forth afterthat.

SPEAKER_05 (20:04):
A friend of mine is uh is uh was a Somalier, she's
not anymore, and she was tellingme they how difficult it is um
to really look to really learnthat skill with different type
of bouquets and this and that.
It's it's a very almost like ascientific skill to learn.

SPEAKER_02 (20:18):
It is, yeah.
It's very methodical.
But everything is different,right?
Every year it's different.
Every vineyard site, even 50feet from me, the the grapes are
gonna be different than the oneswhere I'm sitting at, you know,
if I were in the middle of thevineyard, like it's all soil
content.
It's it's it's just to me, it'slike I guess maybe my mind
doesn't stop.
Most people it just seems timeconsuming.

SPEAKER_03 (20:38):
It is.
It is.
But but in a good way, right?
Like a lot of things.
Look, it's in the most deliciousway.

SPEAKER_02 (20:45):
In the most delicious way, Bon, you know
that.
Like it's it's so good.
We wrote a wine list togetheronce.
You came into the commentary.
That's true.

SPEAKER_05 (20:55):
Okay, that's true.
Well, break that down a little.
I want to hear about that.
I didn't know about that.

SPEAKER_02 (21:03):
Back in the day at Underbelly, our wine list was
very different, and it was hadcharacters and drawings, and
like it was fun, free-flowing,and it was it was beautiful.
And somebody said somethingabout understanding the
restaurant business and winelists, and I was like, Well,
it's understanding front andback, side to side.
And I was like, Oh man, I needto talk to Bun.

SPEAKER_04 (21:23):
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (21:24):
And so Bun came in and we went through the wines by
the glass and was like, just youknow, tell me what you're
thinking.
And then he was like, This iswhat this flavor profile does.
And so, like Bun doing tastingnotes on all the by the glasses.
That's dope.

SPEAKER_07 (21:36):
That is cool.
Man, that's a that's a fun jobto be asked to come do.
Hey, sit here and drink thiswine and tell me what it tastes
like.

SPEAKER_03 (21:43):
No, I did.
I I it gave me a well, here'swhat happened.
I remember asking Chris.
I was like, um, I was like, Ialways see pairings, right?
You always go somewhere and yougo to a restaurant and they'll
always have the dish, and it'sum, you know, to be paired with,
or they'll give you arecommendation for pairing.
And I remember asking Chris, Iwas like, Chris, I don't really

(22:04):
drink wine.
Like, I I don't like winepreferably at all.
Um, am I missing out when I eatcertain dishes and I'm not
pairing those dishes with acertain type of wine?
He was like, Yes, absolutely.
No.
There are combinations that willonly occur when you have this
dish and a bit of this wine anda c and a cut in a combination.

(22:26):
Right?
And I was like, well, I don'tknow.
He's like, well, let's let'stalk through it.
Let's kind of go through it.
And so it was just like, theseare the kind of these are
whites, these are reds, this isthis, this is that.
I didn't retain any of it interms of in terms of in terms of
differentiating between what's awhat, right?
I assume a red is a red becauseit's red.

(22:48):
Right?
A white, but but once we getbeyond that, the color
distinction is I'm I'm lost.
But it was fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 (22:56):
We we did like a heavier red wine, and he he just
looks at me and goes, thattastes red.
And I was like, You are crap.
And it was like, and that's whatwe put on the list.
This you can literally taste,like so you know, you get into
Pinot Noirs and stuff like that,and maybe they're just softer
and lighter, but you get in thatfull body, and you know it.
It's there.
And and and and I thought thatwas like just the most brilliant

(23:17):
commentary for that because itwas like, yeah, no, that is full
circle right there.
So yeah, it was great.

SPEAKER_04 (23:24):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 (23:25):
All right, so we're getting ahead of ourselves
though.
So oh boy.
So you're woke, you're workingand you're working under the
chef, and then uh just a lot ofit's catering, and that's scale.
And I'm always fascinated byscale because you would think,
you know, if you read a recipeand it says this feeds four, you
gotta read and you have to feed,let's say, a hundred, then you
just 25X, right?

(23:46):
In theory.
Yeah, but it doesn't really worklike that in scale.
So you're learning a lot of ofbeing thrown into that world as
well.
When do you find a restauranthome for yourself?

SPEAKER_02 (23:58):
I mean, that was for me.
Your initial, I guess.
Yeah, for me, it was having myown, right?
And that was underbelly, andunderstanding like that if I
wanted to do it exactly the wayI wanted to do it, I had uh I
had to have it be mine, youknow, and and I loved working
with people.
I always have, but for thatinstance, it's like underbelly

(24:20):
was I don't know what that was.
It was sometimes I think it wasa bad decision, sometimes I
think it was one of the bestdecisions.
Um but it was the hardestrestaurant that a human could
possibly open in a in a way thatum underbelly was the side of
things not seen, right?
And so it was the diversity thatexists into our city, it's the
people that are existing in ourcity, it's the people that we

(24:40):
love because even it'sHoustonians, um, and I think any
city that you live in, unlessyou really see it and you get
down into it, you don't knowit's there, right?
And I think if people live onKaty and they drive into
downtown, they miss everythingthat happens upon you know Long
Point, where it's one of themost diverse streets of the
city, or the Vietnamese culture,or the Chinese culture, or the
Middle Eastern culture, like allof these cultures that exist,

(25:03):
like how do we talk about that?
And so what I wanted to do withthis restaurant was to open a
place that focused on not justthe cultural diversity of the
city, but the product diversityof this city.
So all of our products, whetherit be meat, fish, all the fish
came through our Gulf waters orlocal waters, and then

(25:24):
everything else came from within150 miles.
So not just that, but onTuesdays, a thousand-pound steer
was brought in the back in eightpieces, and then we that had to
be broken down by Thursday,because that was two to three
250-pound hogs that showed up.
And then Thursday, Fridays weregoats and lamb day, Saturdays

(25:44):
were poultry day, seafood wasevery day, and then produce
outside of your staples, likeonions, carrots, celery, herbs,
garlic, citrus, if not inseason, and potatoes, if not in
season, were just dropped offevery day by the our farmers.

SPEAKER_05 (25:58):
So you're you and you were moving that much
product, you were moving thatmuch food to be able to move
pound steer in a week.

SPEAKER_02 (26:06):
It was a hundred.
Wow.
Yeah, 180 seat rests.
But like, if you got if we ranthe butcher's cut, which was
basically just the grilled steakset, um, it would change four
times throughout the night on abusy night.
So it would just go down thelist, and servers have to look
up and be like, all right, itwas ribized, now it's okay, now

(26:26):
nope, now it's flank, now it'sflat iron, you know, and it was
just like because we just haveto go through as much as we
could, and we did.
But then you're also having tointroduce people to like here's
an entire beef shank for sixpeople.
And there's only four.
Yeah, yeah.
So there's because there's onlyfour legs on a couch, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (26:44):
So like no, I dealt with it.
I remember my my firstunderbellied dinner.
Yep, I believe it was Queenieand I, and it was Debbie and
Dwayne at the time.
Dwayne Brown and Debbie Dev weremarried at the time.
And I remember sitting down atthe table, and Chef was like,
okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna startsending some stuff over.

(27:07):
It starts well enough salads,appetizers, a couple of veggies,
and then it begins.
I've never been hosted by a chefat said chef's restaurant.
So we start getting everything,and I mean everything.
And about four or five dishesin.

(27:27):
The waiter says, How youfeeling, B?
I said, This is a lot of food.
I said, I don't know how much ofthis food we're supposed to eat.
He says, When you get tired, letme know as soon as you can,
because there's probably gonnabe about two or three dishes
after that, so I could give hima heads up.
They brought they brought somuch food.

(27:49):
And then Chris comes over.
I say, Chris, I can't eat allthis food.
We there's no way, even withDwayne here, we can't eat all
this food.
He's like, I don't expect you toeat all of the food.
Just want you to taste whatwe're what we make it.
Just taste it.
I was brought up in a way thatif you didn't clean your plate,
it was disrespectful.

SPEAKER_04 (28:08):
I agree.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (28:09):
And this is my first time,again, my first time being
hosted by a chef at hisrestaurant.
So I'm like, if he keepsbringing food, I gotta keep
eating it, right?
Like, and I just had to tellhim, I was like, Chris, I can't
do it, bro.
I can't, I cannot eat all thisfood.
We cannot eat all this food.
And I'm so glad that he tookthat pressure off me of just

(28:30):
like, you know, just just tasteit.
You don't have to eateverything, just just taste it,
see what you like on the menu.

SPEAKER_02 (28:36):
And I look back at that now, and I did that too,
uh, you know, I did that forsome people when and not uh it
didn't happen all the time, butit was like now when that
happens to me, I'm like, pleasejust don't do that.
And so like that was that waslike the young Seth mentality of
like, I want you to have it allright now.
And it's like maybe I shouldjust cut that back to like maybe
you should just have five thingsthat are really solid.
They're I think they're allsolid, but like maybe just five,

(28:58):
you know, and and not reallybecause it can be a memorable
experience, but also you don'twant it to be a memorably
painful experience of like lateryou're like I can't move.
I tried, I gave it my all, butnow I'm just so full I can't
move.

SPEAKER_03 (29:12):
Chef, I want to ask you about something that you we
talked about once at at uhunderbelly, and it was the idea
of giving your underchefs andother cooks on your staff the
opportunity to reinterpret someof your dishes.
Oh yeah.
Absolutely.
Can you talk about that?

SPEAKER_02 (29:33):
Yeah, no, I realized from a very young age, or I
should say young chef age ofthis, that like you're good as
the people that you have aroundyou, right?
And in in the kitchen, theyalways say that you're only as
good as your last plate.
And I'm always like, no, you'reonly as good as the last person
you train that could put out thelast plate, right?
Because you're giving theopportunities to people.

(29:54):
And so every day we would sitdown at like 1 30, and everybody
had to be a part of the minion.
Meeting and everybody had tohave their ideas, and we would
work through these thingstogether.
And it would be like they wouldcome up with an idea and be
like, let me work with you onthat.
And just like help them, youknow, progress in their careers.
And we had a really good amountof like everybody's running
restaurants now, so it's prettyamazing that that's happened.

SPEAKER_07 (30:17):
From that original team at Underbelly?

SPEAKER_02 (30:19):
Yeah, I mean, even one of them, Daniela, was named
um, what was it, the SanPellegrino best female chef in
the world in 2019.
By the world's 50 best, yeah.
So and I'm not saying I had any,but maybe just a little bit of
push and a little help throughthose things.
She's you know, she's anexceptional human being, and so
but that's just that's kind ofhow it works, you know.
You you gotta train people to bewho they can really be.

(30:41):
Because you know what?
I would say that if my boss atthe sushi bar wouldn't have told
me to go to culinary school andunlock that for me, I wouldn't,
I wouldn't be where I'm at byany means.
And so you never know who'sgonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_07 (30:56):
And we'll be right back.

SPEAKER_03 (30:58):
Welcome to Merrick Studios, where stories take the
mic and culture comes alive.

SPEAKER_07 (31:02):
We're not just a member, we're family, bringing
you smart, soulful, unjecturedconversations.

SPEAKER_05 (31:08):
And this season, we're bringing the heat, but our
biggest lineup yet, whateveryou're into, music, sports,
business, we got you covered.
Merrick Studios, where theconversation starts and keeps
going.

SPEAKER_07 (31:19):
Check out our full lineup, including Ungalski with
Bun B, Jeffrey Fledge, andmyself, Tom Frank.
Now streaming at we areMerrittStudios.com.

SPEAKER_00 (31:28):
Master the art of lyrics with Pendulum Mink, the
first school for rap.
Learn elite techniques throughimmersive lessons, real world
exercises, and guidance from hiphop icons.
This is where MC sharpen itsskills and glow boldly on the
mic.
Ready to level up?
Visit pendulummink.com and startyour journey today.

SPEAKER_07 (31:47):
And now, back to the show.

SPEAKER_02 (31:49):
Is it okay if I move to a different place?
It's literally sprinkling andhas been raining on me for like
five minutes.
I can still talk while we dothis.
Wisconsin, you can give a littlebit of a lot of things.

SPEAKER_07 (31:58):
I think it's interesting though, because I
think what you just said goesacross all business, all
industry, right?
Like as a business owner, you'reonly as good as the rest of your
teammates.
And being able to train them toactually do what you're doing
and most times do it better.

SPEAKER_02 (32:16):
Yeah, I mean, it's giving people the opportunities
in life, right?
And when people can feel thatyou believe in them, they can
believe in themselves.
And I think that's a verybeneficial way to look at
things.
And that's what I have alwaystried to teach the people that
have worked with me is that youcan do this and you can teach
somebody else that.
Because if you just hold on tothe knowledge yourself, what are

(32:38):
you doing?
And and that that literally doestranslate to any in any industry
that translates.

SPEAKER_03 (32:44):
You've done all of this amazing work in this
restaurant.
You've made regional access toproduct a very intentional part
of what you do.
You've you've tried so manydifferent culinary dishes, as
you said, Indian, you know,American, Chinese, Japanese, all
of these different types ofcuisines, and you've gotten
pretty good at them.

(33:05):
But you're realizing that to tryto do them all at one time at
the same time can be a littlebit overbearing.
Yeah.
Talk to us about one of the mostunique concepts I've ever seen
is the concept of one-fifth.
I don't want to go into it.
I would much rather you break itdown as far as the idea, the you

(33:26):
know, the approach, and theexecution.
You know, when when I said thatunderbelly, underbelly maybe was
the dumbest idea.

SPEAKER_02 (33:34):
This is fascinating.
No, scratch that.
This was definitely one-fifthwas definitely the dumbest idea.
Um and that was purely like itwas the way it worked out, is
like my wife and I wereliterally talking.
We're probably year four intoUnderbelly, and it was like
every day, all day, every day.
And the conversation was like,how do we back out of this a
little bit?
Like, like the like take alittle bit more of that what do

(33:55):
they call it?
Understanding work-life balance,right?
Trying to figure that out.
And I had this opportunity for arestaurant that was down the
street to come look at it, andit was Mark's, which was like
this high-end fine-downrestaurant for 20 years, 19
years, and he was closing it.
And I had the real estatecompany say, Hey, you want to
come look at this?
I was like, Yeah, I want to seeit, of course.

(34:16):
Why would I not want to?
It's historic, you know.
And we walked through it, and atthe end of it, they were like,
So what do you think?
You wanna you want to take thisover?
And I was like, That's a biggerconversation than what I just
had with my wife, you know.
It was like, um, I don't know.
So like, let's go back toUnderbelly, let's have the
conversation there.
It's like, all right, we getthere.
So this kind of like a realestate play for us, right?

(34:37):
We only want to hold thisbuilding for two years.
So, do you want to take it fortwo years?
You can use all the plates, youcan use all the equipment, you
can do all this stuff, and youdon't have to do anything, just
basically we'll turn the nameand you have a restaurant for
two years.
I was like, it's gonna cost wayand to me, it was like you don't
understand like finance thefinances, right?
Uh is that like it's gonna takeme two years to even come close

(34:57):
to do anything with this to getit moving, and then all of a
sudden we're gonna be done withit.
I was like, you guys wasted myday.
Um, and I wish I would havewalked back on this one, but it
was really smart.
Um, I got up, walked from thetable, and I took like five
steps.
And I just turned around and Isaid it.
I was like, I'll take it forfive years.
Um I'm gonna change the conceptevery year.

(35:20):
And y'all looked at me like,what?
And I was like, well, if I onlyhave it for five years, I want
to see what I want to do when Igrow up.
And if I can run five conceptsand see out of those, have the
opportunity to have one fullyear of experience on each one
of those, maybe I like two ofthem.
And I'll do two of thoserestaurants out of the five, and
that will give me like a provingground.

(35:41):
I immediately called my wife andI was like, I need you to come
up here, let's have thisconversation.
Of course, at that time my wifewas in PR and uh restaurant PR,
and I told her this, and she waslike, Yes, and I was like, I was
fully expecting a no.
And she's like, No, this isreally smart.
And so first concept opened,George, which was the
steakhouse, and we looked at itas yes, Houston has a lot of

(36:05):
steakhouses, but what would itlook like if you were to come
over to our house and have asteak dinner at our place?
Right?
How would I cook it?
What would the music be?
What would decides be, right?
Because I don't want to do anormal what you expect, a
fillet, this, uh that, you know,cream spinach, a chocolate

(36:26):
dessert.
It was seafood tower.
I went out on the like we wentand ate every seafood tower we
could.
And it was like every one ofthem had like crab legs, and I
got one that had a whole lobsteron there.
Like, not even broken down, justa steamed lobster, boom, right
on top.
And I was like, who's gonna eatthat?
Who knows how to do that?
If my wife and her friends goout before the ballet and they

(36:47):
go and get a seafood towerbecause it sounds delicious and
there's a whole lobster on it,nobody's touching it.
And so it was like, okay, wehave to reimagine the seafood
tower now.
Okay, now we're just gonna pulleverything from shelves, we're
gonna do all the work, we'regonna make these beautiful
salads, we're gonna do, youknow, we're gonna cast iron sear
all the steaks, we're gonna putmusic on the radio that would be
basically, or the the soundsystem that would be basically
like at my house.
What would that playlist be?

(37:08):
And so it was anywhere fromMetallica to bun, right?
It was all over the board, butit was fun, it was energetic,
and so it was it was which didturn into a restaurant.
And then the next year it waslike romance languages, so a
focus on French, Italian, andSpanish on a high-end version,
which I did not really care for.
I realized that I wasn't reallyinto the higher end fine dining

(37:30):
sector, and that's what thatwas.
It was like really plated andlike hard work, and then we did
Mediterranean, but we went andlearned from the team at Zahab
in Philly, and it was I thinkthat was just a brilliant
concept.
And then we did Gulf Coast andthen uh Red Sauce.
Yeah, but then pandemic hit, andthen it kind of became morphed

(37:51):
into all of them at some point.
Like, what's good for to go?
Okay, well, hummus is great forto-go, so we'll do that, you
know.
And so we kind of flipped backand forth, and then I decided
the last minute, I was like, youknow, right before pandemic, I
said it.
I was like, we only have a yearleft, we're gonna do lightning
round.
And I announced that.
Man, I'm glad that that didn'thappen.

(38:11):
Because I was like, we're gonnachange it whenever we want,
however many times we're gonnado it.
And I was like, it's just gonnahappen.
I was like, this is insane.

SPEAKER_07 (38:17):
But it you know, it's like one of those things
that we would close so you couldchange the menu.

SPEAKER_03 (38:22):
No idea what to expect if you're asking Gulf
Colt they get love language.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (38:28):
But you know, it was one of those things like because
we started off and we closed theentire month of August.
And we would redo uniforms, wewould redo menus, we would redo
the interiors, and then it waslike, man, this has got really
expensive.

SPEAKER_07 (38:39):
Oh, that's what I was gonna ask.
So you flipped it over in onemonth.
Between every year, you wouldclose one month to flip it all
over.

SPEAKER_02 (38:46):
Yeah, that only happened like the first two, and
then we just said no a dice, andwe just we rolled.
I was like, we're not changinginteriors, nobody really notices
this.
And we may do some paints, wemay do some different lighting,
we may do, but not like full-oneverything.
Yeah.
You know, it just it just got toa point where it's like, okay,
this is your new uniform, andwe're going in a week, you know,
and like we would start workingon it for months ahead of time,

(39:07):
myself and the culinary team,and run normal service, but then
it was like, okay, this day it'sdone, and next week we open.

SPEAKER_05 (39:14):
So wow.
That's an incredible concept.
I mean, I know it's hard andexpensive, but yeah, too
ambitious.

SPEAKER_02 (39:22):
I mean, it was it was hard to see.
But you know what?
And and for me, like, and andthis was the and this is how
society works, and I didn'trealize this.
To me, if I love something, youknow, you always you see it the
most is like when a restaurant'sclosing, like they're super
busy, right?
Because people want to supportit.
And for me, or like if it's new,they want to support it.
And for me, it was like, well,if you love this restaurant,

(39:42):
you're gonna continue to comefor that year, right?
But it was like a checklist forpeople.
They would come when it opened,and then they would come for the
next concept when it opened.
Yeah, and they would come, andso they're like, Well, I did all
five.
And I was like, Well, you don'tget a passport stamp for that.
Like I need you to be here oncea month, you know.

SPEAKER_05 (40:00):
It's not doing me any good favors by that.

SPEAKER_02 (40:02):
Like, I need you here like every month.
And so that was uh that's kindof where it was.
That's amazing.

SPEAKER_05 (40:08):
No, what I wanted to ask you as well.
Like, I know I uh as I said, wetalked a bit before the show,
but um I talked to Bun aboutthis before.
Years ago, I went, I was down inHouston seeing Bun about
something, and a f a co-friendof ours, a mutual friend of
ours, Premium Pete, who we love.
He's uh he's this Italian cat,he's jersey, he's like super
Italian, right?
Oh, he actually has his ownsauces and stuff now.

(40:29):
He's like a really good cook.
And he took me to a Vietnameserestaurant in Houston.
I don't remember which one itwas, but it was incredible.
And I just wanted to ask youlike, what do you think that the
draw to Houston is for theVietnamese population?
It's such a huge thing.

SPEAKER_02 (40:42):
Well, it was deemed a safe haven after the
Vietnamese War, and the CatholicChurch brought a lot of the
migration over to it.
And then it just it's sprawl andit's the weather, it's very
similar.
Um, there's the community, andonce you get that first round of
of immigrants that move into aplace, then that it just grows
on that.
Yeah.

unknown (41:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (41:03):
I'm sorry, go ahead, Craig.

SPEAKER_04 (41:05):
No, it was really it was really the Catholic Church
and it being a safe haven.

SPEAKER_03 (41:09):
See me, I I've I was introduced to the Vietnamese
community when I my mom and Imoved to Port Arthur.
And the way it was explained tome is that most of them came
from a fishing background.
Yes.
And so they were the primary, Iknow for myself in Jefferson
County, they were the primarysuppliers.

(41:30):
Like you would drive through theneighborhood and see fishing
nets hanging from trees, dryingout.
And it would, and what it woulddo, they would have, let's say,
three families in one home,right?
And it's a huge house, it's abig house.
There's those three families,but there are maybe five or six
different people that areworking on said boat.

(41:52):
So they all bring those thoseresources back to the house,
they pull everything in, andbecause it's all under one roof,
you've got six people sharingthe rent, the light bill, and
all of that type of stuff.
And then outside of these housesare that's back when they had
the drop Z states and all ofthat stuff.
All of they had all the bestcars.
They had all the nicest carswith the stereo systems and the

(42:16):
rims.
They had everything nice becausethey were pooling their
resources.
And they they were a large partof our community.
We went to school with manyVietnamese Vietnamese kids.
A lot of our good friends wereVietnamese kids because we all
kind of grew up under the sameconditions, right?
In that small town, and theywere even less of a minority.

(42:36):
So they got shit on, you know,all of the time.
But they were very quiet, veryhumble people, very chill
people.
Some of my best friends and mybusiness partners are currently
Vietnamese, you know, Andy Wenand my fam, you know, great,
great chef, greatbusiness-minded people.
Texas has really benefited fromthe influx of Vietnamese.
We haven't, we haven't had any,like, there's no hard crime in

(42:58):
their community.
They pretty much keep tothemselves, but they're very
welcoming, they're very hospitalho hospitable, and uh, I think
we've really benefited.
And the crazy thing is, well,Vietnamese people also eat
crawfish, which is probably thebiggest communal food that we
have here, second to barbecue,right?
Like the easiest way to getsomebody to come over and talk

(43:21):
about something you don't wantto talk about is telling that
so-and-so is boiling crawfish.
And you'll get them.
But there are two differenttypes of crawfish, right?
So crawfish in the blackcommunity, or let's say the
southern community, I shouldsay, is more powder-based,
right?
I would say powder would be morepowder-based as far as their
seasoning.
Yeah, and again, whereas thesoaked.

(43:42):
Yes.
And they're like oil-based.
If I'm am I correct on this,Chris?
Or I'm so there's I don't wantto generalize it, right?

SPEAKER_02 (43:50):
Well, the the old school, like I say at the
Southern Boilhouse, right, ismore of heavily seasoned water,
you boil the crawfish, and thenyou keep them in that, you turn
it off and you soak them in thatwater, and so it penetrates the
shell.
Right?
With the Vietnamese culture,it's more of because having went
to Vietnam and it's like,where's the crawfish?
They're like, Yeah, we don't dothat, but the idea of it's more

(44:14):
you'll see sections of the citythat's that is snails, and
sections of the city that's likeriver prawns, and sections of
the city where it's all theserestaurants that are the same
thing.
But it's what it is is thecommunal aspect of sitting
outside or sitting togetherunder one roof, picking with
using your hands, eating likecrawfish, like you would, you
know, sitting around eatingcrawfish and having conversation

(44:35):
with family and friends, and bigopportunities to do that.
And so, you know, having talkedwith the guys at crawfish and it
was like, what is it about it?
And they're like, we like thesweetness of the meat.
We don't want a cloudy theflavor of the meat, but we want
the seasoning on the outside.
So instead of the dry seasoningboil aspect of it and soak, the
Vietnamese version is boil quickin clean water or just lightly

(44:58):
seasoned, and then it goes intomelted butter and garlic and all
of the seasoning, and it getstossed in that and then put into
a bag and steamed out.
And so when you pick it up,instead of like with the
Louisiana style, where it'smaybe like the dry seasoning on
the outside, the meat is reallyseasoned.
This is all the seasoning on theoutside that just kind of
lathered at it with more butterand more garlic than the human

(45:20):
should consume at one point intime, and and the season and the
meat being really sweet still.
So it's it's very much adifferent thing, but it's it's
amazing on both sides.

SPEAKER_07 (45:32):
And it's similar to like a Maryland blue crab.
Like up here, we have that's thecommunal big dish is you know,
crabs.
You put the crabs out and itbecomes makes yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (45:43):
Yep, no, it was something that when they moved
here, they saw and it was itlatched onto it.
Because I went I would look Iwent looking for crawfish when
we were in Vietnam.
They're like, yeah, no, we it'sit's river prawns here, or
snails, or clams, or this, orthat, but it's the act of
sitting together as a communalfamily and sharing time.
Yeah.
And and Bun's right.

(46:04):
Yeah, you walk into one of thethings that we're gonna do.
All cultures in one room.

SPEAKER_03 (46:10):
And because our main, I guess, seafood would be
crawfish, it's just the samesauce, it's just which what
what's regional to you, whatwhat's accessible to you, and
you would put that in saidsauce.
But it's it's I think we ashumans have really I don't think
we realize how much of our fooddepends on who we want to

(46:30):
commune with.
I don't think we consciouslythink about that.
Like you have to you have to gointo a restaurant and be around
other people in order to kind ofeat food, right?
And so even if you're not at atable, if the vibe at the tables
around the restaurant kind ofset the tone for the restaurant.
When I when I say that, I sayyou can walk in a restaurant and

(46:53):
be like, yeah, this isn't mykind of place.
This might be the kind of food Iwant to eat.
They absolutely sell the kind offood I want to eat, but this
this doesn't look like the kindof setting I want to eat this
food in.
I don't think me and the peoplein this room can find but you
never know.
Sometimes you go in and sit downand give it a shot.
People, people break the ice,they say, you know, you just

(47:14):
made a friend in Cleveland, youknow.
But I think about that with thething.
I love that about restaurants.
I think about that with sushitoo, though.
Like I I tell people that thatsushi is meant to be eating
different than the way we eat inrestaurants, right?
It's really supposed to be in amore of a familiar setting.
I would say, well, dinner,Japanese dining in general is
more of a familiar setting.

(47:34):
But it's strictly about thecommunion that's done while
we're eating.
But um, you know, barbecue.
I mean, that's what we we do.
If you want to get the familyover, tell them Uncle So-and-so
is barbecuing.
Well, I don't want to seeBrenda, but if we're in your
barbecuing, I'm going to eat thefood.

SPEAKER_05 (47:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What you do?

SPEAKER_03 (47:52):
I I'll I'll bring I'll bring the ice in the cups.
Another fun thing you told me.
Um, I would love for you to talkabout gumbo and how people tend
to pick their gumbo.
This was fascinating to me.

SPEAKER_02 (48:04):
I mean, I think when you start talking about gumbo,
it definitely that is a regionalspecific thing, but inside of
that region, it's way different.
I think when you get into, Ifeel like this is the statement
of almost every person whenyou're like, because everybody
will ask you, do you make a goodgumbo?
And it's like, who in yourfamily makes gumbo?
And like, well, my grandmother,my dad, I'm like, okay, I'm

(48:26):
third best.
You know, it's like everybodythinks they're the best at
making gumbo, except for youknow, it's very much a familial
thing.
So your grandmother, yourmother, or your father, whoever
makes a gumbo in your family, isalways gonna make the best.
And then it depends on theirstyle, right?
You can do more of a brown roux,you can more do seafood where
it's okra and philee driven, butthen you get into like that like

(48:46):
real bat and rougey Lafayettestyle gumbo, where to me it's uh
man, it's gonna be bad.
Kind of dirty water gumbo.
Rue is really dark, really,really dark, and it's not very
thick, but it just gives it thatflavor and it's like kind of
acrid to me.
But it's just it's reallyregionally specific.
But when you start to look atthat, everywhere around the

(49:07):
country has their gumbo.
It may not be gumbo, but in theChesapeake, you guys have a
seafood stew.

SPEAKER_06 (49:14):
Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_02 (49:15):
Clam chowder, same thing.
You get into you know in Gulf orWest Coast and it's Chapino and
it's all of these things, soit's all the seafood stews, but
it just depends on how you lookat it.

SPEAKER_06 (49:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (49:27):
Well, I've never thought of gumbo as a seafood
stew.
Well, I've never thought ofgumbo as a stew.
Well, to keep in mind though,this is a very thin line between
a gumbo and a stew, right?
Yes.
And I think it's brown foot.

SPEAKER_04 (49:43):
Yeah, that root.

SPEAKER_03 (49:44):
Right, right.
The brown, yeah, for sure.
But that's about flour, right?

SPEAKER_02 (49:48):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, because when you starttalking about brown root, all
you're doing is either butter orsome kind of fat oil and flour,
and you're stirring and it'sstarting to cook its gluten and
starches out, and it becomesflavorful and more and more
flavored depending on where youstart at.
And sometimes people go reallydark with that, and it gets
really kind of bitter, and itdoesn't have the thickening

(50:09):
properties that you would ifit's a little bit less, right?
And so it can that's that that'sthat dirty water I talk about.

SPEAKER_03 (50:16):
Which something I bring this up because I know
Jeff is a big gumbo guy.

SPEAKER_07 (50:19):
No, I'm getting hungry again.

SPEAKER_05 (50:21):
But but you know I'm saying that it always makes you
think of West.

SPEAKER_03 (50:27):
And whenever New York boys whenever the New York
boys would come down to Texas,Mama West would make them a
gumbo.

SPEAKER_05 (50:34):
She'd make him a gumbo?
Absolutely.
Cats would just come, cats wouldjust pop up at the house and
just man, we and you said it wasa communal thing.
We'd all sit around and eat thegumbo and also be in the
kitchen, and they'd be pickingmy brain about New York, New
York, you know what I'm saying?
Yeah, but yeah, absolutely, man.
Absolutely.
Chris, tell us tell us about umSouthern Smoke.

SPEAKER_02 (50:56):
Yeah, because I know this is very important to you.
Sorry, to do this real quick.
I'm the worst podcast person onthe face of the planet.

SPEAKER_07 (51:03):
Yeah, you've only moved three or four times.
We'll fix it.

SPEAKER_02 (51:06):
I know.
Well, it's because I've been ina DM car all day long, and so I
need to do this.
So Southern Smoke was somethingthat my wife and I founded back
in 2015, like you guys weretalking about, for a friend of
ours that was diagnosed with MS.
That we did that for two years.
Um, and the very first thing itwas like, well, how do we know
how to raise money?
And that's through food andbeverage and parties, right?

(51:29):
Everybody wants to go to aparty.
And so that very first year, Icalled Sean Brock, Rodney Scott,
and Aaron Franklin.
And said, Hey man, can you dothis party in the back parking
lot of the restaurant?
Maybe 200 people.

unknown (51:45):
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (51:45):
And they were like, Yeah, no problem.
I wanted to close the sidewalksaround the restaurant, so I went
to the mayor's department ofspecial events and she was like,
What are you doing?
And I told her, and she's like,No, not doing that.
We're shutting down all thestreets around you.
I was like, Wait, what?
And she's like, Yeah.
We're gonna give you the mayor'sstage so you can have music,

(52:06):
entertainment, we'll help youbuild all the infrastructure,
we'll get you the elect youknow, the people that can do all
of the infrastructure for it,electrical, all of it.
And you're gonna have a thousandpeople.

SPEAKER_07 (52:19):
I was gonna say, that's a little bit more than
two hundred.

SPEAKER_02 (52:22):
Yeah, that's what I said too.
Um my wife and I walked out andI was like, what the heck just
happened?
And it was like, well, I guesswe're throwing a festival.
And so I called the guys and Iwas like, hey, are you good with
this?
And they're like, yeah, noproblem.
A thousand people for sure.
And I was like, I'm gonna raise,I want us to raise a hundred
thousand dollars.
And Bun was there that firstyear as well.
Um he came out and just I didn'ttell anybody Bun was gonna be

(52:44):
there.
And he showed up and did acouple of songs, and it just it
blew all expectations of a of aparty away.
Thank you.
I've always been a part of this,and so it's it's as um as much
as it is we do this, you do thistoo, and so I love you forever
for that.
Um just so people understandthat too.

(53:06):
Um, but that first year I said Iwant to raise a hundred thousand
dollars, and everyone's like,don't say that.
Because, you know, when youstart doing infrastructure and
costs like at the end of theday, you're like, here's here's
a thousand dollars, you know,and it's like but we raised we
we wrote a check for$181,000.
And yeah, wow, and then yeartwo, same thing.
We had we had eight chefs comein, right?

(53:29):
And then uh we we wrote a checkfor$284,000 that year.
And then year three, HurricaneHarvey happened.
Um it really put our city into aplace where you know, and as
many things as people were doingfor good.
Um J, you know, JJ Watt raisedwhat, 80 million.
Um the mayor had a fund, RedCross, but none of that at that

(53:49):
point was gonna help people thatlost work.
Because at that point it waslike, you know, food and
beverage workers is who we needto look at, you know, and and
how are the dishwashers gonnamake rent?
How if they how are they gonnahow's this prep cook gonna he
lost his car, or she lost yourcar, or this farmer lost their
crop, or how do we take care ofthese people that really take
care?
Who's gonna take care of theperson at Jack in the Box that

(54:11):
is working the drive-thru thatis barely getting by to begin
with, and didn't work for a weekor two, or lost clothing, or
lost their home, or whatever itmay be.
And so I I we said, you knowwhat, we'll figure it out.
And we looked at a uh company oran organization called the
Giving Kitchen out of Atlanta,and they fund food and beverage
workers in their time of need,right?
But they they take care of rentand electricity.

(54:32):
I you know, Lindsay and I saidwe we can't define what a crisis
is to somebody, and so we wantto broaden that scope of like we
want to hear what it is that's aproblem, and we'll work through
it with you, and we'll put youwe'll put finances out there for
you.
Um so we put it on anapplication process, and that
year I think we had 16 chefs.
Um and um we took on 230applications and we funded 139

(54:57):
families a half a milliondollars.

SPEAKER_05 (55:00):
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (55:01):
Wow, yeah.
And so at that point, werealized that MS Foundation will
always do something for them,but it this this needs to be
food and beverage becausethere's no real safety net for
anybody in the industry.

SPEAKER_06 (55:13):
Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 (55:14):
There's not most restaurants, like it's so hard
to do things like insurance, andlike most restaurants just can't
do it.
It's not viable, it's notfeasible, um, especially you can
get into large amounts ofemployees and things like that,
but it just becomes hard.
And a lot of times it's apassion-driven, you know,
industry.
And so you may be working weekto week, month to month, check
to check, right?
And or maybe two jobs, dependingon your situation.

(55:36):
Who knows?
And so something happens.
What happens if you know youtrip and you know you're you're
on your family day out at thepark, or you fall off your bike
or whatever, who knows?
You twist your ankle and youcan't work for a week or two
weeks.
What happens?
First off, how do you get to thedoctor?
Second off, how do you pay thatbill?
Third off, how do you pay, howdo you, if you can't work, how

(56:00):
do you pay all of your bills?
Then how are you putting foodon?
Like it's a spiral that just isso hard.
And so we decided, you knowwhat, we're just gonna keep
doing that.
And the the festival has grownover the years, for sure.
Um, you know, we took off 20 and21, and then we came back pretty
big in 22.
Um, and now this year inOctober, um, well, you know, not

(56:26):
it not a thousand anymore, butmore like three, thirty, five
hundred to four thousand people.
Um we remember.
So it's coming up.
Wow.
It is.
And you know, we started withthe exact date.
October 4th.

SPEAKER_07 (56:38):
October 4th.

SPEAKER_02 (56:40):
And so, you know, this year, like I said, we
started off with four chefs.
This year it's 84.

SPEAKER_03 (56:45):
And these are not bullshit like chefs.
These are some of the best andthe most highly regarded chefs
in the country.

unknown (56:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (56:54):
That come out.

SPEAKER_02 (56:55):
Everybody, everybody kind of wants to be a part of
it, you know, because it's oneof the only things, because as
as Bun now knows with withTrill, that you get asked to do
everything.

SPEAKER_04 (57:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (57:05):
And and there's it very rarely is it something that
can give back to the staff thatyou're working with, right?
And this is something thatyou're doing for your own
industry that really you can getbehind and feel good.
And so, you know, when I saythat when we started this, you
know, that$500,000 for industry,since 2017, we funded almost uh
we're right at$15 million withall 50 states.

SPEAKER_06 (57:28):
That's well done.

SPEAKER_02 (57:30):
And and then we had all the chefs in 18 uh at the
festival.
We had the conversation of like,how do we make a change in our
industry?
And um it was just the chefs.
We had a closed door luncheontalking about it, and it was
mental health is where we gotto, because we just lost Anthony
Bourdain, and we lost a coupleother chefs just recently.

(57:51):
The idea was that we're gonnafix it, we're gonna fix problems
before they start, right?
Because you start thinking aboutall of those things that I
mentioned earlier if you twistyour ankle.
Okay, well, now you're sittingin your house at two in the
morning freaking out, havingthese bad, you know, anxiety
attacks because you can't affordto take care of all these

(58:12):
things.
Well, you need to talk tosomebody.
And so we figured out a programin 20, it was June of 20, where
um, because University ofHouston, their PhD candidates
for the psychology departmentcould not graduate because they
were not getting their hours ofclinical studies and clinical

(58:32):
hours.
Mental Health America knew weneeded something, so they put us
together and like maybe there'ssomething here.
Well, we found that if we fundthe universities, like somebody
funds the football program orthe basketball program or the
baseball program, we fund thepsychology department, and in
turn we get clinical hours umgiven to us.

(58:54):
So we started the behind youprogram in 20.
And so um anybody, there's twopillars for Southern Smoke: one
is emergency relief, and theother is behind you, uh, which
if and both of them are the samecriteria: six months in the
industry, 30 hours a week,doesn't matter how many jobs you
get that 30 hours, um, it's justsix months and 30.

(59:14):
And you can go for both programsif you need, but when you get
put into the behind you program,you basically start working with
the University of Houston andyou get 20 free sessions.
And so, and then a slide and asliding scale after that.
So now at this point, we are wejust as of last week moved into
two more states, and so thatbrings us up to 12, and we're
gonna be at 13 by the end of theyear.

(59:36):
So, and like some states arebigger, have bigger programs,
like New York.
We have three universities thatwe work with.
So, like NYU is kind of like thegold standard for us as far as
once you get done with the 20free sessions and you graduate
that program, you have$15session.
Wow, that's good.

SPEAKER_07 (59:51):
That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 (59:52):
And that's what we, you know, we yeah, we're in
California.
We're like I said, 12 statesright now.

SPEAKER_07 (59:57):
So, where do people give us exactly where people can
go?
to find out more about this.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:01):
Southernsmoke.org.
Southern Smoke.org.
Talk about the festival, talkabout our new thing that we
started in the spring, theCanada, which is our wine
auction, and then you can findout the programs and how you can
help or how you can take how youcan use those services.
And everything's confidential,you know, we have a team.
I don't actually work for thefoundation.
I know nothing about the nutsand bolts or who who applies or

(01:00:22):
who gets funded or nothing.
It's all very internal.

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:26):
Wow.
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:26):
And so yeah, so 2017 we've done what 15 million and
over 8,000 clinical free mentalhealth care sessions.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:34):
And Chris is being very modest about this.
They've they've not only changedlives, they've saved lives.

SPEAKER_06 (01:00:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:40):
You know, they've they've caught people before
they hit that breaking point.
And and like you said, you know,this country, I mean I don't
know anyone right now whodoesn't feel like they should be
more aware of where they're atmentally or are aware and
realize they have they needhelp.
There's so many people thatrealize they need help and don't

(01:01:02):
have the outlet, don't have thethe resources, don't know where
to turn to.
And so I think it's abeautifully thoughtful thing
that Chris and Lindsay have puttogether.
It starts starts here and thenit grows for a specific thing
but then you realize that wellthis can help if we think in the
right way we can help almostanyone through anything with
this process.

(01:01:23):

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:24):
And the goal is when we get to 25 or 30 states and we
get those online because youknow it's and it all of that is
fundraising and making sure thatwe have the right universities
that they follow the rightcurriculum and the access to
food and beverage workers and wegenerally ask that the people
that are doing this have been inthe food and beverage industry
too and so they understand thoseyou know those those deals.
Once we get about halfway orover I we're going to start

(01:01:45):
going for free legal counsel.
And and I think that will be agame changer too because when
you have somebody that can readyour contracts read your lease
negotiations immigration law taxattorneys and just getting
access to free legal counsel andand and representation that
changes everything for a lot ofpeople.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:01):
Now you're my hero Chris amazing amazing work
you're doing God's work withthat man.
Hey Chris before we wrap up Igot another little quick
question for you brown gravy orwhite gravy?

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:13):
Depends on the circumstances all right let's
let's let's talk through itlet's talk through it what what
does what does brown gravy goon?

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:23):
Most things actually turkey for sure any kind of like
meat product but except for whenwe start talking white gravy
that's a chicken fried steakthing.
And I'm a white gravy only onchicken fried steak or chicken
fried chicken.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:35):
I don't want um brown gravy on that personally
but that's why I said everythingelse brown gravy that's why
that's why I asked brown firstright brown goes on almost
everything and but white shouldonly go on chicken fried
protein.
Yeah don't give me chicken friedsteak with brown gravy man we're
gonna say you make your ownketchup just stop it right

(01:02:58):
there's only one ketchup in theworld yeah yeah yeah yeah now
let me ask you this with thiswhite sauce well let me let me
let me get away from that thepotatoes the potatoes right
there if there's white gravy onthe potatoes then that's because
the potatoes is accompanying achicken fried dish.

(01:03:18):
That's the only actual realreason for that yes a brown
gravy on everything.

SPEAKER_07 (01:03:24):
So where did dairy cream so where did dairy well no
that's chicken fried steakthough right at dairy queen yeah
I mean steak fingers are achicken fried steak technically
okay all right okay you're goodI thought there was a glitch in
the matrix but we're okay Ilearned a lot we would be remiss
though if we didn't ask him onequestion.

(01:03:46):
We we gotta know about eat likeeat like a local oh yeah oh you
I mean because I got hooked intowatching all these eat like a
local over the last couple daysmy favorite one I'm a I'm an ice
cream guy so I got very muchinto your whole scene of ice
cream and uh cloud 10 which bunI I kind of want to go to cloud
10 when I come to Houston.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:06):
So that's not do you know what cloud 10 if I'm not
mistaken is not too far fromTrill Burger.
No there's one not too far.

SPEAKER_07 (01:04:13):
Okay then there's my meal Trill Burger and Cloud 10.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:16):
Well that now has become we're that we're that
coffee it's now a coffee shop soit's a little bit further but
they have four locations of thecity so yeah but they just moved
they didn't close that one theyjust moved to another location
sometimes real estate workssometimes it doesn't uh eat like
a local yeah that the where theywere is not great eat like a
local was a show that like whenI sold the restaurants just to

(01:04:39):
start a different facet in mylife I think we all kind of have
that thing where we want to dosomething new.
I didn't know what I wanted todo at that point in time but uh
I met with the general manageruh our MDC affiliate and he and
we started talking Southernsmoke and then halfway through
he goes hey man I got an ideafor a TV show what do you think
what do you want to do?
And I was like what?
And he's like well if you had aTV show what would it be and it

(01:05:01):
was like I'm not a competitionguy.
I don't ever want to be that Iwant to tell other people
stories and help them tell theirown stories and so they can
promote them and and we canmaybe teach people interactions
and and you know to have a foodshow it really is it's like we
just go into restaurants and Isit with either the chef or the
owners or whoever's running itand sometimes it's nobody and I

(01:05:21):
just talk about it.
But it's it's more of the storyof who they are and their story.
And so that when the viewercomes in they have an attachment
to the restaurant not so muchthe dish right because uh we're
never you know at first likerestaurants want to put down 20
dishes in front of us likeplease don't do that just give
me like four or five so peoplecan focus on these four or five

(01:05:41):
things and and really kind ofcome in for those things.
And it it it really changed thescope for a lot of restaurants
not knowing that's what it was Iwas hoping that was what it
would do.
But you know you gotta havepeople watch it and people
actually watch it and that'sgreat.
And so but you know like let'sjust talk chicken fried steak.
You know I'm out in Seeley Texasdoing a show on chicken fried

(01:06:02):
steak and I'm like one of thebest ones I've ever had and they
called me about a month laterand they went they said you know
what we went from selling 50chicken fried steaks a week to
400.
Wow and it's it's immediateimpact on restaurants and so you
know we worked through them andand bun you and I still still
want a day with Bun I want tomake I want to I want to do

(01:06:26):
trail but I also want to go outand see the places that you like
to you that you know that youcan it really does change things
and then the stories there's somany stories I didn't know and
you know I I just went andfilmed we got season three
coming up I went and filmed atthis place called North China
and it's just North Chinarestaurant.
I was like I gotta know more andit's been around it's been in
Houston for 50 years right andthe idea because I saw I looked

(01:06:50):
at the menu I was like why iskimchi the first thing on the
menu and this was how the sontold me is that when his
grandfather left northern partof China went to Korea right and
so opened a Chinese restaurantin South Korea or worked in a
Chinese restaurant in SouthKorea and then immigrated here

(01:07:13):
and was sponsored by the familyat China Garden over by Toyota
Center.
Wow yeah Carol and her familyher parents sponsored his fa his
grandfather and then he ended upopening North China and what he
considers what this restaurantis is what we think of as
Chinese American this restaurantis Chinese Korean.

(01:07:36):
So it was the Korean influenceof opening and working in
Chinese restaurants in Koreathat he brought here and so
there's a lot of the Koreaninfluences and flavors into
Chinese cuisine.
So that's how he explained it hewas like how you think of
Chinese American General Zoe'sand all that we think of this
through the Korean lens andthat's what we learned.

(01:07:57):
And that's why there's kimchiand that's why there's there's
like fermented soybean pastesand gochijong in dishes that
typically are not there.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:05):
So it's like telling these stories is really I think
thoughtful in in what I wantyeah you think you're doing a
good job Chris I don't know manI don't think so I think I think
the reason I ask him this isbecause he's so selfless and
he's so humble he's not going togive himself any credit.
He's being very very modestthroughout this conversation

(01:08:27):
like he has thought of being aJames Beard award winner.
He's done so much for so manypeople and he doesn't ask for
anything in return and he justgoes on about his life he's
you're talking to Clark Kiddright now.
That's the reality you'retalking to Clark Kidd right now
you have no idea that there's acape behind that that polo shirt
I can guarantee you that Iappreciate that but you know

(01:08:49):
what I just feel like we canalways do better and we can make
changes and things that we canthat we can control and and do
better for people every day.
I remember Chris saying like youknow I was like what is it like
like being able to cook likethis and like what do you guys
think it's like same thing Iguess you guys are thinking when
you make your music like Ididn't I didn't look at what

(01:09:09):
Chris and his restaurant wasdoing as a cultural
representation of Houston in thesame way that I was a cultural
representation of Houston.
And and that's actually whatgets these guys excited about
what they do.
You know to bring their art onthe tables around the restaurant
night after night after nightbeing appreciated for it is no

(01:09:32):
different than me putting outmusic and playing on the radio
or or streaming online every dayand people appreciating it, you
know and again it just shows howmuch of a a community Houston is
yeah because when bad thingshappen the rapper the the chef
you know what I'm saying thedoctor the lawyer we cross all

(01:09:54):
of these cultural lines and justsee each other as Houstonians
and it's a beautiful thing.
And I'm I'm so honored to be apart of that.
I know Chris is as well you knowwe're cultural exports you know
when we go out in this world weare walking talking
representations of Houston'sculinary team Houston's raps
team Houston's culture all ofthat type of shit and I think

(01:10:16):
Chris has been doing an amazingjob man like ever since the day
I met him more and more I'veI've gotten to know him you know
it the deeper I look into whathe does and what he has done I I
I think it's it's it'sremarkable that you can do all
of this stuff and like literallyjust sit back and be like okay
what's next like they're raisingmillions and millions of dollars

(01:10:40):
he's taking no personal creditfor it you know and instead he's
thinking of well if we did thatwe're doing this maybe we should
look into this as well you knowyou're doing God's work my man
you're doing God's work that'svery that's very kind that's
very very kind and and Iappreciate that but you know
what uh I always say that likewe're all on the same planet

(01:11:00):
going in the same direction.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:01):
If we can align some dots we can change everything.
You know and and that's the goalis that like so I guess my last
question is no I didn't mean tocut that off I didn't want to
cut that off I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:12):
No that's that's always the question is like
you're getting back in it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:16):
Chris my last question I was like you want to
get into you already knowrestaurants again and like no
I'd like to help I just want tohelp them I want to be a part of
the system not but you're happyyou're you're happy where you
are though I love it in I getthe time and the opportunity
that work life balance now youknow it's like I may have like

(01:11:38):
five jobs now um you know andsome of them pay some of them
don't but that's fine you knowit's it's all part of it and
like I learned that I can helpwith the you know being in the
restaurant industry for 30 yearsthat I can help with some
experiences with people thathave not.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:53):
Well Chris we don't want to keep you any longer from
your vacation and we wish you agreat weekend man.
Thank you for being such a greatfriend a great chef and a great
interview I mean this franklythis is one of my best
interviews.
Well thank you so much forhaving me.
I really appreciate your timebuddy I mean you guys are
amazing no no you're amazingladies and gentlemen again the
great chef Chris Shepard andit's southern smoke.org is where

(01:12:17):
they can find you to help peoplein need from the restaurant and
culinary industry.

SPEAKER_07 (01:12:23):
Either and I feel like I need to go get something
with brown gravy on it now.
Here you go now you know therules all right folks follow the
show on Instagram at unglossypod subscribe to Unglossy on
Apple Spotify wherever youlisten to the podcast leave us a
comment on Instagram and spreadthe word and until next time I'm
Tom Frank.
I'm Bun B I'm Jeffrey Sledgefollow the show on Instagram at

(01:12:46):
Unglossypod and leave us acomment.
Subscribe to Unglossy on AppleSpotify YouTube or wherever you
catch a podcast Unglopsy ishosted by Bun B Jeffrey Sledge
and Tom Frank.
It's produced and distributed byFag Studios

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Chris Shepherd: Houston, Hustle, and Taste

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

All Episodes

Chris Shepherd: Houston, Hustle, and Taste

On Purpose with Jay Shetty