Michael Ford: Blueprints, Beats, and Belonging

This week on Unglossy, Bun B, Tom Frank, and Jeffrey Sledge sit down with Michael Ford, The Hip Hop Architect—a designer using rhythm and rhyme to reshape skylines. From leading tThe Hip Hop Museum in the Bronx to launching the Hip Hop Architecture Camp, Ford proves design can be culture, not just construction.

He shares how rap lyrics inspire real-world spaces, why representation matters in architecture, and how collaborations with Kurtis Blow, Lupe Fiasco and Herman Miller, and turn creativity into community impact.

The crew dives into Virgil Abloh’s legacy, Lenny Kravitz’s world-building, and Ford’s next blueprint: a Hip Hop Museum of the South in Memphis.

🎙️ Tap in as they connect bars to blueprints, showing how hip hop doesn’t just shape culture—it designs the future. This is Unglossy.

"Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture," is produced and distributed by Merrick Studio and hosted by Bun B, Tom Frank and Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to hear this thought-provoking discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @UnglossyPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://unglossypod.buzzsprout.com/

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Last week on Unglossy.

SPEAKER_04 (00:02):
He's taking no personal credit for it, you
know, and instead he's thinkingof, well, if we did that, we're
doing this, maybe we should lookinto this as well.
You know, you're doing God'swork, my man.
You're doing God's work.
That's very kind.

SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
That's very kind.
That's very, very kind.
And I appreciate that.
But you know what?
Uh I always say that like we'reall on the same planet going in
the same direction.
If we can align some dots, wecan change everything.

SPEAKER_04 (00:32):
From the top.

SPEAKER_02 (00:33):
I'm Tom Frank.

SPEAKER_05 (00:34):
I'm Jeffrey Slick.

SPEAKER_04 (00:35):
And I'm Bud B.
Welcome to Unglossy.

SPEAKER_02 (00:38):
Real stories, unfiltered dialogue, and the
voices moving culture beyond thegloss, height, and headlines.
So buckle up, Unglossy startsnow.
We are back for anotherUnglossy.
We're on a roll here.
We've had some very interestingpeople on this show talking
about some very interestingthings.

SPEAKER_04 (00:58):
And we've been able to be consistent too.
Like we haven't had any like offweekends where we didn't have a
uh, you know, a guest.
Yeah.
That we didn't have a scheduleof conflict.
Let me knock on the wood becauseI may have just You may have
just uh jinxed us.
Thank you.
No, but uh but no man, thingshave been rolling smooth, these
conversations haven't been goingover very well.
I think at this point we'veprobably each brought a guest to

(01:21):
the table, and the other hostshave been able to be a part of
the conversation in a very likenatural way, like forcing their
way into the conversation.
And at this, I think that'sbecause generally myself, Tom,
and Jeff, we're naturallyinquisitive people.
Like we want to know things.
Like we are learners in the inthe current, you know, not kind

(01:42):
of living off of the informationthat we've been given and just
kind of always referring back tosomething, but having new points
of connectivity with the cultureright now.
And I think that's what makesthis show interesting.

SPEAKER_02 (01:54):
Yeah.
And we've dabbled in a coupledifferent things from food to
football.

SPEAKER_04 (01:59):
It's crazy.
Like we've we're working thespectrum right now, I gotta say.
We are working the spectrum.

SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
They all do have that central theme of culture.
Yeah, and kind of and and guysthat are kind of making a a
significant impact on the waythings are shaped, the way
things are thought about, theway things are done.
Yep.
Which I think is very exciting.

SPEAKER_04 (02:19):
This one is very, very different because it
doesn't intersect culture inthem in the ways that we've kind
of talked about it.
Like we've been dealing withlow-hanging fruit as far as
culture is concerned.
This one takes us on a bit of aturn, and I'm really interested
to see this.

SPEAKER_02 (02:33):
That's a good segue because we got a very special
guest today.
Today, on Unglossy, we're joinedby Michael Ford, also known as
the hip hop architect.
Michael's career lives at theintersection of design and
culture, using his hip hop as alens to rethink how cities are
planned and how communities seethemselves in the built
environment.
He's the founder of the hip hoparchitecture camp camp, which we

(02:56):
need to get into because it's anamazing, amazing program.
It's an award-winning program.
He introduces unrepresentedyouth to design through the
power of hip hop.
He's also the lead architect,and this is what you were
referring to, Jeffrey, of thehip hop museum in the Bronx and
the founding principal of brandnew design studio.
His work has been featuredeverywhere, from Rolling Stone
to the Today Show to ESPN.

(03:17):
His TED Talk has challenged ageneration to view architecture
as culture, not justconstruction.

And I love that phrase (03:22):
culture, not just construction.
An architect, educator, culturalinnovator, reshaping the
blueprint for the future.
Welcome to Unglossy, Mr.
Michael Ford.
How are you, sir?

SPEAKER_06 (03:35):
Peace, peace, yo.
I'm feeling good.
I'm feeling good.
Thanks for the intro.
I needed to record that.
I need to use that the next timeI go.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Hey, I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 (03:47):
Thanks for having me on to have this conversation.
So now where are you talking tous from?
Because you recently moved, ifI'm correct here, right?
Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_06 (03:56):
I am now a Texan.
So I still got my 313 number.
I'm from Detroit.
I ain't giving that 313 phonenumber up.
But I'm I'm just outside ofDallas now.
I'm in a city called LittleWales, just outside of Dallas.
Welcome to the DFW.
Okay.
You got the ambassador of Texason with you right now.
Oh, yeah, that's what makes thiscall so excited, man.

(04:17):
I uh it's great to be in Texasand to be speaking to uh the the
governor, the real governor ofTexas.

SPEAKER_05 (04:25):
How long you've been?
If only I had the power, thingswould be a big difference.
How long you've been in Dallas?

SPEAKER_06 (04:30):
So I've been here for about this would be three
years.
So I'm still new, man.
Still using GPS going up there.

SPEAKER_02 (04:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (04:38):
And that's a big move, man.
You were in Detroit forever,right?
Yeah, man.
Born and raised.
And you know, but happy wife,happy life.
So my wife wanted to move and uhsay less.
Yeah, go.
I'm here.

SPEAKER_04 (04:49):
You gotta go.
I love it.

SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
So we gotta start with kind of a foundation here.
And Bun and I were talking aboutthis when we first got on.
Like, help me connect the dotshere between hip hop and
architecture.
How did this where did thisgenerate?
How did this start?

SPEAKER_06 (05:04):
Yeah, so for me, man, this has been a
conversation for the better partof two decades.
Something I've been exploringsince a college student.
So growing up in Detroit, youknow, you got a lot of I had a
lot of friends who were tryingto be rappers, some folks who
made it.
But also just growing up in themusic city.
I played a the trumpet when Iwas younger.

(05:26):
My dad had a jazz band.
And when I got to architectureschool, this is where I started
to link the two for me.
I had one year to do a graduatethesis.
I'm like, all right, I'm aboutto spend one year in grad school
spending all this money.
Let me make sure I don't boremyself.
I got to pick my own topic formy thesis.
And um I say, you know what?

(05:48):
I'm gonna do skyscrapers thatyou can live in.
You'll never have to come out ofthese skyscrapers.
This was a new thing.
This is 2004, 2005.
So I'm gonna do the livableskyscraper, the building you
come in and never leave out.
I got bored with that shit inlike two months.
I'm like, you know, I need tochange it.
And um my friend made a bet.
He's like, yo, why don't youjust mix music and architecture?

(06:10):
Like, see how music canencourage or can inspire
architecture.
So, you know what, I'm gonna doit.
Uh I changed my thesis a couplemonths in, and uh, my thesis was
titled Hip Hop InspiredArchitecture.
And what it was was, I mean,while we in the studio, we we
design it, we got music in thebackground all day.
Yeah.

(06:31):
We listen to music, that's whatkeeps us going in the middle of
the night as students.
So I said, you know, I'm gonnatake what's in the background,
I'm gonna put it on paper now.
I'm gonna not just have itplaying while I design, I'm
actually designed to the music.
So it started off with melistening to tracks and saying,
I'm gonna solve the issues thatthey're talking about in the
music through architecture.
So you got people that's rappingabout their neighborhood, they

(06:52):
block the buildings they livein, the house they live in, the
school they go to.
But they also are like imaginingsomething different.
Uh, they're talking aboutpolitics that's housed within
these structures.
So I say, you know what, how canarchitecture respond to this?
So I would just start listeningto music and designing shit that
responded to the lyrics I washearing.
That was the the start about 20years, and uh, you know, I've

(07:16):
been building on it since then.

SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
Now, a side note, I know exactly what you're talking
about here.
I was an architecture major aswell, and I can remember those
long nights in the studio withmusic blasting, and I remember
the days of that thesis too,because that that was rough.
So I can appreciate that.
And I and I I kind of like thatyou ended up switching yours and
going into something thatprobably was a hell of a lot

(07:40):
easier for you because it waskind of who you were.

SPEAKER_06 (07:43):
Yeah, not just easier, you know, because I will
say it's harsh.
I'm still trying to answer thequestion 20 years from.
That's why it's great to be onthese podcasts and have these
conversations.
I want to hear y'all's feedback.
But it wasn't so much easier,but I would say it was something
more related to me.
You know, when you're incollege, you're always exploring
the other, you know, especiallyin architecture school where
only 2% of us, only only 2% ofour architects in the United

(08:08):
States are black.
2%.
So you have a lot of situationswhere you're studying the
so-called greats and none ofthem look like you.
I say, you know what?
I'm gonna take the biggestcultural innovators that we got,
hip-hop artists, and I'm gonnasee how I can study the way that
they became these culturalicons.

(08:29):
And can I model my career thesame way?
Like, not put my culture in thebackground.
I'm gonna I'm gonna wear it onmy chest, wear it on my sleeve.
I'm gonna come in this space.
There's only one person, I'm theonly black person in the space.
I'm gonna be unapologeticallyme.
And um, so 20 years now in thisgame of talking about hip-hop
and architecture, you know, it'sbeen a blessing to work on

(08:51):
projects like the hip-hop museumin the Bronx, because that
brings it full circle from beingsomething just like an academic
exploration to now something I Ireally built my profession on
and built uh a design firm on.

SPEAKER_02 (09:03):
Dive in a little deeper though, because I think
I've heard you speak before thatit it's it's bigger though than
just tying music, right?
There's a lot more kind ofnuance there in terms of and and
you probably explain it betterthan me, but the not only just
the language patterns and andthe pattern of hip-hop, but also

(09:24):
kind of the stories behind itthat really inspire the work
that you do.

SPEAKER_06 (09:28):
Yeah, so and when we talk about hip-hop, well, when I
talk about hip-hop, I'm lookingat you know, all the elements of
hip-hop.
It's not just the MC, but I'mtaking all the elements and
seeing how that can inform thebuilt environment.
But some of the things that wedo that's totally unique.
Um, you know, I have youngpeople come to the camp, the hip
hop architecture camp.

(09:48):
This is where I took all thestuff I did in grad school and
some of my professional work,and I distilled it down to a
program for kids.
And I'm teaching kids aboutarchitecture, but in a very
unique way.
So I say, hey, who's yourfavorite MC?
We'll print off some lyricsinstead of listening to them.
Let's print off the lyrics andsee what they're talking about.

(10:10):
And then we'll do things likehighlight the rhyme cadences,
the rhythms and the patterns andthe music.
We're highlighting them withmarkers, and we're trying to
extract the textures from theirfavorite MC and then turn those
into textures that you canactually touch and feel and walk
through.
So we'll build a whole city, youknow, based on the rhythms and

(10:30):
textures from MCs.
And then we invite rappers tocome to the hip-hop architecture
camp.
We've done it in about 42 citiesacross the country.
Uh, we've done some in Kenya, uhout in Nairobi and Toronto.
But we'll invite MCs to come andthey'll see kids creating these
cities.
Like, oh, you know, that'spretty nice.
I like the way you built thiscity, I like the density here.

(10:53):
They'll get all architectural,especially if it's an architect
coming.
The architects will say, Hey, Ilike the density here and the
amount of space that you havededicated to skyscrapers, etc.
But then my kids will tell you,nah, that's not a city I built
at all.
These Bumbi lyrics, I justturned it into a city.
You know, where you have tallerbuildings are based on larger

(11:13):
words you use.
So if you look really look atwhat we can extract from hip-hop
to use as tools for building andcreating, it's a very unique and
fun process.
And then when our kids talkabout it, I mean they look like
geniuses.
Like it's them, they have astyle, they have an approach
that is totally unique.

(11:33):
So even if they one person in aroom, they're the only young
black person in that roomtalking about architecture, they
story and approach is gonna blowaway any and everybody else in
that room.
Absolutely, well.

SPEAKER_05 (11:44):
Yeah.
This is all fascinating to me.
It's crazy.
I want to go back a little bit,though.
I want to go back a little bit.
Like what sparked you to getinto architecture as a kid?
I wanna I want to hear what Iwhat that's like.
Yeah, so I grew up wanting towanting to design cars.
Happened.

SPEAKER_06 (11:58):
Growing up in Detroit, you know, cars was a
thing.
You know, so you grow up in yourfamily, you got two, three cars.
You you have a number of cars.
Detroit was not about masstransit back then.
It was, you know, you need aweekend car, you need a fun car,
you need your work car.
So for me, you know, cars was mylife.
My dad always had the rangitycars, so I was working on cars.

(12:21):
He had the A to B cars, Ilearned how to change oil, do
all that uh as a young dude.
And uh I said, you know what,I'm gonna design cars.
It flipped for me when I went toa summer program.
I was maybe in fifth or sixthgrade, and this is when I
learned that a new car comes outevery year.
So it's not just this Mustang.

(12:41):
Next year, another Mustang isgonna come out.
And you might not design thatone.
And then right after that,another Mustang is gonna come
out.
And then I started to learn theprice of new cars.
Like, damn, if I design thiscar, my daddy ain't gonna be
able to afford this for a longass time.
I know we always had thestruggle, buggy.
And I saw the price tag, and I'mthinking of this as a little

(13:02):
kid.
I'm talking to the teacher.
She said, you know, you shouldthink about architecture.
And you can design a building,nobody has to purchase that
building to experience it.
It's not gonna be a new one inthat space every year.
So once you design something,it's permanent and hopefully it
outlasts you.
So now your parents don't haveto buy that building to come and
walk and experience what youdesigned.

(13:23):
So that was the the switch thatwas flipped for me as a young
kid.
And um after that I had theblessing of going to a high
school in Detroit called CastTech.
We call it the greatest highschool in the world.
We had Donna Ross, um Big Sean,our once beloved mayor Kwame

(13:43):
Kilpatrick.
Once beloved.
Yeah, I mean, it's a great highschool, but you you get to pick
a curriculum or a major when yougo into high school.
You got people in performingarts, and they had an
architecture program, so that'swhere I got deeper into
architecture in high school andyou know the rest was history.

SPEAKER_04 (14:06):
This is crazy how all this intersects because
Okay, interesting.
I've been thinking about this,you know, as I got the research
materials and whatnot, and Ilook at the way that hip-hop has
been expressed through so manydifferent lenses.
Initially it was verylow-hanging fruit.
If you look at the four pillars,it was hip-hop expressed through
dancing, hip-hop expressedthrough music, hip-hop expressed

(14:28):
through art form, hip-hopexpressed through words.
But as hip-hop as a culturegrew, different things connected
itself to hip hop and expresseditself.
I've heard people talk aboutseeing hip hop in colors.
And, you know, in their mind,like they register these things
as colors.
I've met chefs who expressedhip-hop through food.

(14:49):
And I think to Virgil, who wason the cusp of trying to
integrate hip-hop intoarchitecture, and they literally
had built a brand aroundarchitecture.
Do you find that people arestarting to look at different
ways to express themselves andthe culture in the way that the
world can probably access alittle easier than through the

(15:12):
temporary expressions likemusic, culture?
They may not understand theterminology, they may not
understand the fashion of it.
But do you think that this lendsitself to people understanding
and embracing hip hop at a morepalatable level?

SPEAKER_06 (15:27):
Yeah, man.
And shout out to Virgil.
Thanks for mentioning uh Virgil.
You know, he he has a degree inarchitecture.
A lot of people don't know that.
Got a degree in mechanicalengineering from University of
Wisconsin.
It's Madison.
Um, Smart Brother gone too soon.
Um, well, yeah, I totally agree.
I say, you know, hip hop's what,50 this year, 52?

(15:48):
52 history, 52 year history.
The culture has explored everyprofession that you can imagine.
But in a temporal state, youknow, whether it was through
lyricism, through music videos,there was always an exploration
of other professions.
But now, you know, as peoplehave not checked the culture at

(16:09):
the door, because a lot of timeswe'll say you want to become an
architect, you want to become achef, you want to become an
engineer, you need to check thatculture at the door, go into
that space, assimilate, get yourlicense.
But now hear right facts, butnow because I think people can
recognize that we're standing onthe shoulders of genres.

(16:31):
Like a person like me, I'm 42.
So hip-hop is older than me.
I was born into the genre.
It's been a lot of people wholaid a foundation where I didn't
have to check my culture at thedoor.
I came in and it came in withit, and I think I still don't
think it's as palatable aspeople might think.
And I love that because a lot ofpeople still don't understand
hip-hop.

(16:51):
They understand it at a surfacelevel.
So to really translate it andpull it into these other
professions, it's us that'sgonna have to do it.
It's people who are theinnovators, the OGs, or people
that was really born into theculture that live eating shit
hip-hop.
Uh it's people who do it at asurface level that pervert it,
take advantage of a look at itas a quick monetary game.

(17:14):
But I think it's people outthere like myself and some
others who are really trying to,you know, use the culture to
propel the young people who areagain living and breathing it.

SPEAKER_05 (17:25):
So when you go to those those kind of spaces, like
you said, you know, where whereyou know a lot of people are
forced to assimilate, you know,before your generation, like
what's the response when youwalk in with like with this,
with this, with this hip-hopenergy?
And you obviously you know yourshit, so you you know your
study, you you you know, theyyou're not you know, you have
the the technical part of itdown, but what how's the

(17:46):
response when you come in alsowith the hip hop energy?

SPEAKER_06 (17:49):
Uh I'm gonna keep it real.
So keep it real now.
Keep it real.
I was telling y'all when I Iswitched my thesis in grad
school.
This was the first reaction.
So we like we we a few weeks ormaybe into like that second
month.
And now we got to stand up asgraduate students and tell all
the undergraduate students whatwe researching for the year.
So then that way they can comeby, see what we're working on in

(18:11):
the lab, they can peek in, theykind of know what we're working
on.
So my professor and advisorfully expected me to stand up
and say, Yeah, I'm working onthis livable skyscraper, you
know, the building you'll neverhave.
So when I stood up, I'm like,yo, my name is Michael Ford.
My thesis is combining hip-hopand architecture.
It was like, whoa, what thefuck?
Like, where did this come from?

(18:31):
This ain't what we've beenworking on.
So that that initial reactionwas abrasive, you know, even
from the professor.
But once we started getting intoit, and I said, hey,
architecture has always beeninfluenced by other cultures.
You go back throughout time,whether you're looking at
cathedrals, looking at thepyramids, every style of

(18:52):
architecture has been inspiredby its culture.
And I said the most consumedculture and the most
recognizable culture today iship-hop.
So at first, academically, itwas I don't know about it, but
once I proved there's someacademic validity here, uh
everybody was all for it.

(19:13):
But later on in the professionalworld, that's something
different.
It's like, you know, what thehell is this?
And I I took the approach earlyon, like a Dr.
Dre almost, you know,architecture is this real world
where like you can't callyourself an architect until you
get the degree, you take all theexams, and now you're an
architect.
You got your seal.

(19:34):
So, and it takes a long time todo that.
And um, you know, I say I'mgonna I want people to call me
an architect.
I'm in debt.
I've been working for aboutfive, six years out of school.
I still can't call myself anarchitect yet.
And all right, I'm gonna callmyself the hip-hop architect.
So that it was kind of like Dr.
Dre.
And I started taking like thiship-hop attitude, like, you
know, Dre wasn't a doctor, buteverybody called him Dr.

(19:56):
Dre.
You'll never call another persona doctor that's not a doctor.
So I say, you know, how can Iget people to start calling me
an architect?
Some people didn't like that.
It's like a hip-hop architect,nah, he's trying to call himself
an architect.
But it became official when um Idid a left keynote for our
group.
It's called the AmericanInstitute of Architects.

(20:18):
I did a keynote there for ournational conference.
Michelle Obama was one of theother keynotes.
So, I mean, it's a hugeconference.
Wow.
It was Michelle Obama's firsttalk out of the White House.
I'm one of the other uh keynotesthere.
And when they called me up andcalled me the hip-hop architect,
at that time I still wasn'tlicensed.
But they they introduced me infront of about 40,000 people in

(20:43):
this room.
They called me the hip-hoparchitect.
Oh, my chest is off.
That's awesome.
You know, they they recognize inthe work.
You know, I I never put it down,I wasn't gonna give up on it.
I mean, I'm licensed now.
That's the law behind me, but itwas accepted more academically
than it was professionally.

SPEAKER_04 (21:00):
So when you started that makes sense.
I'm sorry, guys.
That makes sense because as Ilisten to you talk and I think
of culture, because we'reprimarily talking about hip-hop
culture, but I'm just thinkingabout culture in general and the
intentionality of how venueswere built for a specific
purpose.
The Carnegie Hall, HollywoodBowl, even back to the theater

(21:23):
and the globe back whenShakespeare was was producing
plays.
Like there were all these venueswere built with the intention
specifically to showcase opera,to showcase music, to showcase
theater.
We're now living in an age whereyou're building a venue with the
specific intentionality of itrepresenting culture.

(21:48):
What has been the feedback fromother architects in the space
with you and that specificintentionality?
Because out of every every otherspace that we've been able to,
I've played Carnegie Hall.
I'm I'm actually getting readyto play the bowl.
I've played a lot of places thatwere not intended to showcase
hip-hop.
The beauty of your museum isthat it's an express intention

(22:11):
for it to facilitate andshowcase hip-hop.
When you put that out there, howare you received by other, I
guess, guys that deal in officespace or residential or real
estate or that's at high-risesand whatnot?

SPEAKER_06 (22:24):
Yeah, no, that that's a great, that's a great
question because when I startedmy own firm and I said, hey, I'm
I'm working on projects that arerelated to the culture.
Those only projects I'm workingon.
I worked at some hugearchitecture firms.
I stepped away and said, I gottadedicate myself to the culture.
And people say, hey, you won'tsurvive like that.
It's not enough work in hip-hopto build a firm.

(22:49):
Hey, you don't know hip hop,man.
You know, it's not just it's notwhat you hear on the radio.
You got contractors, you gotbusinessmen, you got
entrepreneurs.
Like the culture is well beyondthe original elements.
So architecturally, man, likepeople are like, you're not
gonna survive.
It's not gonna work.
You don't have enough clients.

(23:10):
Um, what conference do you go towhere you can pick up a job with
a hip-hop artist?
It ain't no conference.
I just gotta be out here.
So when the hip hop museum camearound, man, it happened.
It was a blessing.
I had moved from Detroit.
I was living in Madison,Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_04 (23:28):
The most un-hip hop places in America.

SPEAKER_05 (23:32):
Man, so exactly like that.

SPEAKER_06 (23:34):
I'm like, you know, this hip-hop stuff is over in
Madison.
I'm like, it's probably notgonna happen.
My wife was at the university,so again, happy wife, happy
life.
I'm there.
And um, I ended up meetingCurtis Blow.
Curtis Blow came to do a talk atthe university, and he was
talking about his dreams tobuild a hip-hop museum.

(23:55):
He's like, you know, I gottaleave something behind that's
more than the music.
You know, what do we leavebehind?
And um a professor called me up,like, yo, Curtis Blow is up here
talking about a hip hop museum.
He said he don't have anarchitect.
You might want to slide up hereif you can.
So luckily I answered my phone.
Boom, jet up to the school.
You ran right up there.

(24:16):
Got up there, and uh CurtisBlow, they introduced us, like,
hey, go Mike Floyd.
You know, he spent his careerexploring hip hop and
architecture.
I showed him stuff on the phone.
Right there, he called some ofhis partners that was thinking
about the museum, too.
And uh it was it was it fromthere.
I came on, I said I'm on aconference call with a few other

(24:37):
folks.
Their executive director, hisname is Rocky Bucano.
Rocky's a great dude.

SPEAKER_02 (24:42):
I'm gonna tell you a little bit about Rocky.

SPEAKER_06 (24:43):
I know Rocky.

SPEAKER_05 (24:45):
No Rocky Craig.
No Rocky Craig.
Oh, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_06 (24:49):
He conferenced, put me and Rocky on a call, and I'm
like, yeah, I love to work on aproject.
They said, well, can you give ussome sketches or some drawing so
we can make a press release?
Like, we want we're gonna dothis museum.
I'm like, hell no, there's noway that I'm gonna be the person
who put out the image.
I'm gonna be the single handthat touches this drawing and

(25:11):
say, This is hip hop, this isthe museum.
So I wouldn't do it.
So, Bun to your question, like,what was people's response uh in
a profession?
I made them love it.
I was like, I'm gonna do adesign charette and I'm gonna
bring folks together.
And then Curtis was like, youknow, what's a charrette?
So I was like, I didn't want thesame thing.

(25:32):
I didn't want to sound stupidand I literally was about to
say, what's the designcharacter?
So I was like, you know, it'slike a it's like a freestyle,
it's like a battle.
Like you're gonna come in andyou just design it off the top
of your head.
You listen to conversation, youdesigning something, when we all
working together, then we'llcome up with a few images that
we all like co-created, and thenwe'll put that out.
So then the pressure ain't onone person, you know.

(25:54):
Let's let's all co-author thisthing.
They'll say, yeah, don't eversay fucking charred again.
Let's just say we call it.

SPEAKER_02 (26:05):
In real time, which I think is I didn't realize
that's how it came to be.
That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_06 (26:09):
Yeah, so we we called it design ciphers.
That was the name.
So we threw this big designcipher in a Bronx.
So it was an abandoned buildingwhere we were going to do the
museum at at first.
It was the old Bronx CountyCourthouse.
So Curtis and Rocky invitedfolks from hip hop and media and
press.
I invited like the top blackarchitects from around the
country.

(26:30):
And we all sat shoulder toshoulder.
So now all the architects arelike, oh, hell yeah, right?
Like, hey, I'm sitting here nextto Curtis Blow sketches.
Yeah, Roxanne Chante.
It was it's a lot of folks.
And it was the day that Princepassed away.
That's why we definitelyremember it because everybody's
phone is going off and Princepassed away.
So it made it more important tohow do we tell our story?
What legacy do we leave behind?

(26:51):
But that's how it started, and Igot people in the profession to
love it because I invited themall to the table.
And we all grew up on thisculture.
These are all of our icons, so Iwant to get them a little piece
of that creation, too.
And we'll be right back.

SPEAKER_04 (27:06):
Welcome to Merrick Studios, where stories take the
mic and culture comes alive.

SPEAKER_02 (27:10):
We're not just a network, we're a family,
bringing you smart, soulful,unjected conversations.

SPEAKER_05 (27:15):
And this season, we're bringing the heat in our
biggest lineup yet.
Whatever you're into, music,sports, business, you got your
code.
Merrick Studios, where theconversation starts and keeps
going.

SPEAKER_02 (27:27):
Check out our full lineup, including Ungalopsi with
Bun B, Jeffrey Fledge, andmyself.
Now streaming at we areMerrittStudios.com.

SPEAKER_01 (27:36):
Master the art of lyricism with Pendulum Mink, the
first school for rap.
Learn elite techniques throughimmersive lessons, real-world
exercises, and guidance from hiphop icons.
This is with MC sharpeningskills and glow boldly on the
mic.
Ready to level up?
Visit pendulummink.com and startyour journey today.

SPEAKER_02 (27:55):
And now, back to the show.
So, Jeffrey, I didn't realizethat you had known Rocky for 30
plus years.

SPEAKER_05 (28:01):
Yeah.
We started in the music businesspretty much around the same
time.
Rocky used to work at MCARecords.
He was a promo guy.
So I know him for that.
I don't just because when Iheard he was doing a museum, I
was kind of because I had losttouch of him.
He had left the business for awhile.
And I was like, oh, really?
You know what I'm saying?
But you know, Rocky's alwayscool.
I was just like, cool, you know?

(28:21):
And then um, you know, I keptgaining more and more momentum
around the city, and they got,you know, some support from like
the the Bronx, you know,councilman and stuff like that.
I was like, shit, Rocky'sturning, this is really going to
happen.
You know, this is a very goodthing.

SPEAKER_02 (28:36):
I I had the opportunity to meet him in Rocky
forever.
Is it January or February?
We we got a tour of what you'vedone so far.
And kind of Rocky gave us atour, and a lot of it is rough
still, right?
And I don't know how it'schanged since then, but the way
he described what was happeningin each of the spaces was
absolutely amazing.
Like if you closed your eyes theway he described it, you could

(28:59):
picture it perfectly.
And the setup of how it is nowwith the giant uh prints and the
windows, and just from theoutside, it it looks
unbelievable.
Like I can't wait to see whereyou go with this and how it
comes to life.

SPEAKER_04 (29:12):
I love that this paints a very cool picture for
kids looking to go into STEM andshowing that you don't have to
be separate from the culture inany way to pursue a future in
STEM.
As a matter of fact, you canactually incorporate the culture
into your trade.
I think that just sends a reallygood message to kids of color as

(29:34):
well.

SPEAKER_06 (29:34):
Yeah, and and I I talk a lot when I'm with young
folks at my camp.
So yeah, we run these campstotally free.
I'll get some sponsors locallyto put something together, uh,
you know, get pay for travel,pay for materials.
But what I tell the young folksat these programs is every
industry is copying you.
You are the source ofinnovation.

(29:55):
When we was wearing baggy jeans,hey, Levi's gonna come out with
the baggage jeans fitness.
You know, we We're wearing ourbig brother, big sister jeans.
They look too big, but we'regonna rock them so so hard that
you don't even want to wear yourfitted jeans no more.
So, you know, if we startmodifying our cars, right?
The auto industry is followingus.
Um Dapper Dam, and you startbiting Gucci so hard, and

(30:15):
Gucci's like, yeah, we justgotta bring you in.
So we are the source ofinnovation.
So I'm trying to, if they gointo different STEM fields,
whether it's architecture orengineering, I want them again
to not leave that innovationbehind.
Bring it.
Whether it's the way you walk,the way you talk, people are
fascinated by you.
They're gonna tell you, don'ttalk like that, don't walk like

(30:37):
that.
As soon as you stop doing it,boom, they go to commercial with
all that style they have youstop doing.
So I'm like, yo, let's let'sbring it in.
And I also tell them somebodyhas designed every part of your
day for you.
From the moment you wake up andput on your house shoes, or you
put on your hoodie, your hat,your watch.

(30:58):
Even when you sit and eat dinneror sit and eat breakfast, the
bed you sleep in, somebody'sthought about how the sun is
gonna hit your face in themorning.
Our world is being designed andcreated by folks.
And it's not a lot of us, or Ishould say enough of us that's
in those design, design careers.
So I'm getting them to come inand think about us, put us in

(31:19):
the forefront of those designexplorations.

SPEAKER_04 (31:21):
That's crazy that that's the kind of conversations
that you guys have amongstyourselves as designers, that
you can actually realize thatevery facet of our daily lives
has in some form or fashion beenmarketed to us and curated to us
to make it seem as if it's ouridea, too.
That's just crazy.
Yeah, somebody's thought abouteverything that you've done.

SPEAKER_06 (31:42):
It's just a wild thing.
They thought about it far beforeyou've done it.

SPEAKER_05 (31:47):
And back to back to Virgil, like that's what was one
of the genius things about him.
You know, Bun too.
It's like he got in and hestarted designing stuff for
IKEA, and he started designingcars, and he started designing
watches, and so he was thinkingthat.
Like, I can design stuff thatpeople use every day in their
everyday lives, a rug, you know,placemats or whatever.

(32:08):
Just he would he wasn't just itwasn't just about clothes, it
was like a whole life ofbuilding a world, basically.

SPEAKER_04 (32:15):
Building a world that allows you to be immersed
in culture, right?
Because you got the clothing,you got the shoes, you got but
now you got the home, right?
The home goods, where you'rewaking up in the morning looking
at the virtual clock, you know,sitting on the dirt virtual day
bed at the virtual desk, likeall of these things, and you're
immersed in his vision of whatyou your day should look and

(32:37):
feel like.
And because it's steeped inculture, those of us that are
steeped in culture areimmediately receptive.
That's crazy.
Just reframe this whole idea byday for me now.
I'm kind of mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_06 (32:52):
Yeah, and it's you know, it's in the genius behind
I think this idea of likegetting kids to explore it, if
if I can call it genius, becauseit's not me or it's really the
young kids connecting with theartistry that they love.
So again, I can imagine, whichwe haven't done one in Houston

(33:14):
yet, we gotta make this happen.
When the genius is already inour lyrics, like hip-hop is
talking about every topic,whether it's environmental
injustices, and I not onlytalked about it, but also like
floated ideas for solutions.
The issue is that we spent a lotof time dancing to that music or
bobbing our head to the music.
Like, you know, let's reallyslow it down.

(33:35):
Let's print, let's print offsome of this stuff that people
are imagining through lyricismand let's create it.
Like, what's the image?
Like the music video is reallyabout selling the song.
So it creates visuals, but a lotof times the visuals are again
tied to the story that's beingtold.
But now this is like the next,like architecture is that next
step.
It's now not just giving thevisuals to a story that's being

(34:00):
told, it's it's responding tothose and trying to solve some
of the issues or not just solve,but help respond to some of the
issues that are being toldthrough the music.
So when my colleagues that arethat don't look like us, you
know, the the other 98% ofarchitecture, um, you know, they
criticize it saying, hey, youknow, this is not a true genre,

(34:22):
you know, it's not Renaissanceor Baroque or modern.
Like, what is hip-hoparchitecture?
I'm like, yeah, whatever.
They say the music is tooabrasive.
The the graffiti, you know, it'svigilante, if you will.
What I tell them all the time isif you don't like, especially

(34:43):
the music, if you don't like themusic, design better
communities.
Because if you design bettercommunities, there'd be less
things for us to rap about.
Because when we're rapping,we're not critiquing the
creations of people who looklike me.
We're critiquing all of theurban designers, politicians,
and architects that don't looklike us.
So that's my TED talk is allabout, is about like hip-hop as

(35:06):
this critique of architectureand urban design.
And it's the critique is there.
And I say I had to give it ainterested name just so the TED
people, TEDx folks will call meback.
Um, they're looking at hundredsof proposals.
So I said, hip-hop is thepost-occupancy evaluation of

(35:29):
modernism.
So I just wanted to say, whatthe fuck is he talking about?
Sounds very, very good.
Sounds intriguing.
So I was like, you know, for itwasn't that 50 years just yet,
but I said for decades, hip-hophas just been critiquing the
space.
And uh I want to highlight thosecritiques and then give an
alleyutte for our nextgeneration of architects and

(35:50):
designers to be that muchgreater than what we've had so
far.

SPEAKER_04 (35:54):
I'm I'm looking at everything that you're talking
about now.
So I'm thinking of design now,right?
And culture.
And I look I've I've been to acouple of different hotels,
right, around the country andaround the world where they
design certain suites that aregeared towards certain people,
right?
So, say for example, you havesomeone that is not of the

(36:18):
culture trying to discern ahotel suite for someone that
they think is a hip hopaficionado.
And then you take that same roomand have it designed by someone
that's of the culture.
And you could do that withcountry music, you could do that
with jazz, right?
There's this outside perceptionof what we think the the world

(36:38):
is that these people live inuntil someone from that world
actually shows you.
And I think the first person Ican think of is Lenny Kravitz,
right?
Lenny Kravitz was doing a lot ofinterior decorating,
specifically from hotels, right?
If I'm not mistaken, it was theSLS that he was designing for.
And the reason people werereceptive to it is because Lenny

(37:00):
Kravitz is the type of personthat would typically stay at a
very high-end hotel, right?
Depending on how it wasdesigned, like the artwork, the
architecture, the way the lobbywas spaced out, all of these
different things.
And he realized, you know what,whoever designed this doesn't
stay at these things, right?

(37:21):
They're designing this space forpeople that they think they
understand.
And Lady was like, no, I knowexactly what people want when
they walk into these spaces.
And went in and designed them,if I'm not mistaken, the
property in Miami, and then wasasked to do a couple of other
properties.
And it just shows you thatthere's a perception of what
people think they understandfrom a very surface level, and

(37:45):
then what people know theyunderstand from the hip-hop
level.
We see everything marketed witha hip-hop aesthetic, you know
what I'm saying?
From breakdancing bumblebees torapping gerbils and all of this
type of stuff.
And it makes for it makes forcute things that we all kind of
look at and be like, that'sthat's weird, that's that's kind
of crazy.

(38:06):
But then you look at someonelike Russell Simmons and Rush
advertising, where it was a lotmore subtle and a lot more
family oriented because heunderstood that hip hop culture,
you know, there's parents inhip-hop culture, there's
children, there's grandparents,they're families.
We think like every otherfamily.
You know, we might dress alittle cooler, but we have the

(38:27):
same core values in hand.
And I think we're seeing a lotmore of that now in modernism
where guys could be like, youknow what, let's let's do an EDM
room and let Diplo design that,right?
Let's do a goth room and letKorn design that or Marilyn
Manton or someone.
Instead of trying to guess theculture, more and more people

(38:47):
are actually giving the culturespace to create.
And I think that's the beauty ofhow we are so easily receptive
to hip-hop, to the hip hopmuseum, is because the idea
comes from the culture, thefunding comes from the culture,
the leadership comes from theculture, and it's all again, I
keep going back tointentionality because I

(39:08):
understand how much of that likedictates design, right?

SPEAKER_06 (39:14):
Right.
Yeah, you're totally right.
You know, shout out to LindneyKravis, too.
He also got a brand withCreighton Barrel.
He designed like total room, youknow, from rugs, dressers,
everything that you would needfor space.
Um, but yeah, Lenny Kravis isdope.
But you know, one of the thingsthat I did, Bun, too, with
designing products.
So I have a rug line that Idesigned with a company called

(39:35):
Shaw Contractor based out ofAtlanta.
If you've been in any airport, Ithink they they probably have
their carpet and rugs in likeevery airport across the
country.
It's a huge brand, they got ahuge market share.
But connected with them, and Isay, you know, I can design a
product, but how is thisbenefiting the culture?
What's the benefit?

(39:56):
So when I sit at that table, Isay, okay, I can design five
rugs, one for each element ofthe culture.
It's gonna come out during the50th anniversary of hip hop, but
for every rug that's sold, Iwant you to give a percentage of
those profits to the hip-hoparchitecture camp.

(40:16):
So now I can go to cities.
I don't have to ask people fordonations.
I want to be able to go to anycity anywhere, run my program.
But then we also givescholarships away because we've
been doing a program for 10years now, next year it'd be our
10-year anniversary.
So I got kids who came in asshorties that now they're going
to school to, they're going tocollege to study some type of
design field.

(40:37):
So I got them excited about it.
I need to support them more.
So now we give scholarships, butit's all from the sale of these
rugs.
And then it helps otherdesigners now.
So you're designing a building,whether it's an office building,
restaurant, hotel, you canspecify this rug to be a part of
your project.
So now they are also helping thehip hop architecture camp.

(41:00):
So I've done that.
That's just cool.
How do you benefit the culture?
So, yeah, you see the dance andgerbils, but yeah, you're
selling more key as so now, butwhat does that do for everybody?
So that's what I've done withall my brand collaborations.
Like I have them give to thenonprofit so that we can you
know encourage young folks todesign too.

SPEAKER_02 (41:20):
And you've done quite a few.
I know the first time I met you,it was the chair with um remind
me of the brand that you didthat with.

SPEAKER_06 (41:27):
Yeah, it's a company called Herman Miller.
Herman Miller, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 (41:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (41:31):
Yeah, and you know, the the carpet rug, me and Lupe,
uh me and Lupe did a talk whenwe launched the brand.
So we did a talk in Chicago.
It debuted the line in Chicago,and it won like the best
flooring product of the year,won like all these national
awards that you know that comeout for interior designers and

(41:51):
products.
The chair product, so this wasnot long after George Floyd was
murdered, and uh I did acollaboration with this
furniture company called HermanMiller.
They got this lounge chair, man.
It's you've seen it a lot, butif you're not in the design
world, you probably never knowwhat the chair is called.
But it is it's uh it's calledthe Eames Chair.

(42:11):
The chair is like six grand,it's a chair in the office.
Wow.
This mid-century modern piece oflike it's more of a piece of art
than it is a chair.
So um I met them and they werelike, hey, how can we help your
message?
You know, you want to makepeople.
I was doing a mural for GeorgeFloyd at the time where I

(42:32):
painted one tick mark for everysecond that Officer Chauvin had
his knee on George Floyd's neck.
So I just painted one tick markfor every second.
And it was uh a performativepiece, so it was time-lapse, it
was filmed.
And this chick came and likecrossed all of my shit out.
She just, after the mural wasmade, she came and X'd all the
tick marks out.

(42:52):
So that it became a uh a storyon the news, and this company,
Herman Miller, seemed to say,How can we help?
I was like, hey, give me yourmost expensive chair.
I want to do a mural on it.
And then I want you to put it onyour website so that every
architect and your designer cansee it.
And uh, I wrote the names ofvictims of racial violence
throughout America's history onthis chair.

(43:14):
Um it's a dope piece.
And then um, you know, we did acouple of talks.
We shipped a chair around thecountry to have conversations
with people about certain nameson the chair, including my
little brother, brother-in-lawin Detroit.
He was murdered by Detroit PD.
Um then we we sold the chair anduh donated it to an organization

(43:37):
that um they're architects andthey help people that go through
uh you know situations withracial violence where they got
to up and move real quick.
They might be handicapped now orcan't walk.
They need a house that's ADAaccessible, but they had to move
so quick because of all theheat, the national attention,
they didn't buy a house that wasaccessible.

(43:58):
So this group goes around andhelps those homes become more
accessible, building ramps ordoing interior renovations.
So a lot of my collabs are allabout giving back to the culture
and like advancing design for usin some way, not just selling a
product.

SPEAKER_04 (44:14):
It's amazing.
I want to talk aboutfunctionality.
The more you talk, the more, themore I think about these things.
Specifically architecture.
You've talked about designing anaim chair.
Why do we not commonly associatefurniture design with
architecture?
Why does the general public lookat architecture as just

(44:34):
buildings and structures?

SPEAKER_06 (44:36):
Man, that's our fault.
That's as a profession.
And it's why I made the hip hoparchitecture count.
Because they say, hey, morepeople should be architects.
Like, yeah, but when you'regrowing up, how many shows on TV
do you see about architecture?

SPEAKER_04 (44:50):
Right.

SPEAKER_06 (44:51):
When you watch Sesame Street, is there an
architect on it?
When the last time you seen amovie and the character was an
architect.
You had well like that was it.
That's the only movie I haveseen.
And when do they look like us?
You got like Wesley Snipes andJungle Fever.
Was he an architect?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (45:09):
Oh, I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_06 (45:11):
And so the answer to like why do we only think about
buildings is because theprofession is not out there
enough through popular cultureso that people can really
understand what architecture is.
It's still mystique.
It's like, oh, y'all guys aregood at math and you're the
great drawers.
It's like, and people also thinkthat it's one man or one woman
that designs everything.

(45:31):
Like we got whole teams.
And we don't just designbuildings, like our skills
translate.
So you have architects who don'tdesign any buildings, no homes.
It's people who work on movies.
Like a lot of people worked onthe movie Star Wars.
Like these were formerarchitects that were designing
these virtual worlds doingcomputer graphics and animation,

(45:51):
set design.
So people were designing stages.
So architecture allows us to gointo different worlds, but the
general public don't tap us forthose things because our
profession is still mystique.
It's still, I shouldn't saymystique, it's still mysterious.
And that's what I'm trying tobreak with like hip-hop
architecture, showing that we'remore than just buildings and

(46:12):
houses.
We we have very conscious waysto approach how we design, what
we design, and we can do morethan just buildings.
We can design cutlery, we candesign clothes, uh you name it,
but we can do it.

SPEAKER_04 (46:28):
That's what you and Virgil were trying to do.
That's what you're trying to donow, and what Virgil was doing
then, is to expand minds ofchildren of color to redefine
what we've been told thesethings are, so you can
understand that there's an entrypoint for you in these spaces.
You know what I'm saying?
This is crazy.

(46:48):
I I've realized now I've had noidea of what architecture is and
what an architect is.
And I'm 52 years old.
Thank God you're doing this forchildren.

SPEAKER_06 (47:00):
And we got we got some adult programs too that we
got to run about.
Sign me up.
But and I think those areessential because you know, the
three of you, I can imaginesitting with y'all.
And, you know, we've done itwith artists in the past.
Like I've taken artists to SanFrancisco and we've done these
design ciphers at you know, someof these tech places where we
had all the resources we need tocreate anything that we could

(47:22):
dream of.

SPEAKER_02 (47:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (47:24):
And um, but the true innovation comes when we bring
people that are part of theculture that that really live
off of the culture, that againare the innovators and creators.
When we sit at the table withy'all, you know, instead of
giving you a pen or a pencil orcomputer mouse and saying, hey,
I want you to make architecturenow, it's like, no, how can I
use your voice, your lyricism?

(47:46):
How can that influence howthings are shaped and made?
How can we take an MPC machineand you know, thinking about
some of our greatest producersand say, can we rewire this?
And now the input that you havefor this MPC, if you make a
great beat, can we now turn thatgreat beat and that rhythm, that
pattern into patterns that wesee on walls or patterns we see

(48:09):
in our neighborhoods, in ourcities?

SPEAKER_04 (48:11):
Waves.

SPEAKER_06 (48:12):
Exactly.
And it's it's something from Ilearned about this from watching
for Rail.
He was on a uh Oprah show, andhe's like, he's talking about I
think it's called synesthetia.

SPEAKER_05 (48:24):
Mm-hmm.
You see you see you see colorsand stuff.

SPEAKER_06 (48:28):
That's what I was alluding to earlier, how
certainly register things.
Yeah, so I'm like, so if you cansee color when you hear music
notes, like what else could weexplore?
Like, there's this, there's atangible relationship between
music and color.
Like, can we start to identifyspace through sound?

(48:48):
Right?
And if you love this sound, canyou make a dope ass space?
So if I'm sitting down with Bun,I'm like, again, I don't want
you to take a pencil or computermouse.
Use the sound we already love.
You know, can we get someproducers in a room?
And how can we, again, remix theway we approach architecture
with the way that the culturehas produced, danced, produced

(49:10):
music.
So that's what this explorationis all about.
And I'm glad the hip hop museumis going to be like the first
piece that really shows all theelements coming together into a
built space.
What's what's the timing onthat?
Are you allowed to say?
Oh, yeah, I'm allowed to say.
It's been a marathon.
It's been 10 years in themaking.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(49:31):
Starting in 2016, that's when Imet Curtis and Rocky.
Yep.
Um, the original open date wasgoing to be August 11th of 2023,
which would have been the 50thanniversary of hip hop.

SPEAKER_03 (49:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (49:43):
But as soon as the pandemic happened, boom, we know
we were at least pushed back byanother year.
But um we're gonna open inAugust of 2026.
Um we got to get y'all there tocome do a walkthrough.
Tom, if you was absolutelyJanuary.

SPEAKER_02 (50:01):
I would have been there in January.
I'm sure it's completelydifferent.

SPEAKER_06 (50:03):
Totally different.
I mean, walls are up now.
Wow.
Um it's just a completelydifferent space.
So you walk through, you can useless of your imagination.
You can literally see see thisthing coming together now.

SPEAKER_02 (50:14):
Oh, yeah, we need to do that.
But we're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_05 (50:17):
It's a trip to it.
You know, I should be I used tobe in that area all the time
because to go to the shoppingcenter over there.
And I used to go there to homeJapan.
You know, look at this museum ofwalk out Jeff's blocks.

SPEAKER_04 (50:29):
Walked out Jeff goes.

SPEAKER_05 (50:31):
Yeah, exactly.
You know what I'm saying?
So the but so to see thedevelopment of it is like, damn,
it's like, you know, it's it'samazing to see what what they
what they built.
I went to a they had a pop-up,maybe a down the street about
this.

SPEAKER_02 (50:44):
I think it's still there, right?

SPEAKER_05 (50:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was that was dope too.
Because this kind of see thatlittle pop-up, some of the stuff
they had in the pop-up was likemind-blowing.
Like, you know, GrandmasterCaz's notebook and like stuff
like that.
So like the I can't imaginewhat's gonna be in the actual
museum.

SPEAKER_06 (51:00):
Yeah, yeah, the pop-up right across the street.
But yeah, but this is a 50,000,this is a 50,000 square foot,
you know, two stories.
Um, and what I love about youknow, what Rocky and everybody
on the museum team did, theywere also thinking about what
they give back.
So on top of the museum, it'slike 520 some odd uh apartments,

(51:22):
you know, uh 100% affordable.
So they team with a developerwho did all the housing, they're
doing a museum on the bottom twofloors, and uh yeah, and I got a
shout-out to my team too,because again, people think, oh,
Mike, the hip hop architect, Igot a dope team of folks helping
me.
I'm I partnered with a firmcalled Gensler.

(51:42):
Oh, yeah.
And the Gensler, they're one ofthe largest firms in the
country.
Um, so a team with their NewYork office to help bring this
project to life.
So I worked on a project abouteight years solo dolo.
And once we got all the fundingin place, um, you know, I
brought on a bigger muscle tohelp uh you know bring this

(52:02):
project to reality.
And then all the exhibits arebeing designed by a team called
Ralph Applebaum Associates.
Um it's a big team effort.
You know, I'm out talking aboutit a lot, but it's 40, 50 people
that's on the design team that'sbringing this thing to life.

SPEAKER_02 (52:22):
So, Michael, I know you got to run here shortly, but
I wanted to try something outwith you.
We got we got a lightning,lightning round, five questions.

SPEAKER_06 (52:29):
Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 (52:30):
All right, just whatever comes into your mind
first.
All right.
Number one hip-hop album thatbest represents your design
philosophy.
I'm gonna go with black on bothsides.

SPEAKER_05 (52:42):
Yes, sir.
What made you pick that?

SPEAKER_06 (52:46):
Uh well, one, I mean, he has a song where he's
doing an intro where he says,you know, hip-hop is wherever we
at.
If we good, yeah, hip-hop isgood.
So wherever we go, that's wherehip-hop is going.
But then he also has a fewtracks like New World, Water.
Uh, you know, I did a waterproject with Lupe Fiasco and

(53:07):
Kenya.
Like, I mean, that that wholealbum is prophetic.
And when you think about it,like math, uh, he's talking
about topics that are palatablefor young folks that's trying to
go into design.
Like he's talking about stuffthat again perfectly aligns with
making uh a great architect ordesigner.

SPEAKER_02 (53:26):
Number two, most inspiring building or landmark
you've ever visited.

SPEAKER_06 (53:31):
I'll say it's the uh the National Museum of
African-American History andCulture in DC.
DC, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (53:37):
I was hoping, I was hoping you was gonna say that I
was like, this dude, but yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (53:42):
Yeah, I was blessed to give a talk there and I had a
chance to walk it while it wasclosed.
Uh me and about a hundred otherpeople, like a real small group.

SPEAKER_02 (53:50):
Number three, you recently moved to Texas three
years ago.
But if Dallas were a buildingtype, what would it be?
That Dallas is a whole newunique culture in itself.

SPEAKER_06 (54:01):
I don't know.
It'd be some big ass buildingwith a whole lot of corridors.
I learned that driving in DFW iscrazy.
I mean, everything is 45 minutesaway.
So I don't know.
This is this is the longestbuilding in the world with the
most hallways.
And I gotta see what thatbuilding is.

SPEAKER_02 (54:20):
Fair enough.
Number four, you your your dreamcollaboration.
Architect, musician, dead oralive.

SPEAKER_06 (54:28):
Ooh.
Well, I would say they have tobe with a number of MCs.
I would say right now, since I'min Texas, I've been thinking
about this a lot.
Uh, Bun, yourself, with TravisScott.
Uh, because you know, TravisScott said he wanted to be an
architect.
He wants he wants to explorearchitecture.
I think that'll be a good collabto design something.

(54:50):
You know, maybe that's the nexttrail burger.

SPEAKER_04 (54:51):
I'm open to that.
That would be interesting.
Um I am open to that.
I never thought about that.
Obviously, I have to hire anarchitect every time we build
out the inside and decide wherewe're gonna put the soda
machines and all this type ofstuff, but we could put a little
bit more thought into it.

SPEAKER_02 (55:06):
Take it to a whole another level.

SPEAKER_04 (55:08):
Well, think about how people experience the space.
I've I've tried to let culturebe the undertone to try to lead
with the food.
So, like you, you know, you payfor the food, but you kind of
get the culture for free, typeof thing.
So, but uh, I would love to seehow Travis would allocate space
for something like that.
That'll be interesting.

SPEAKER_02 (55:29):
And then last thing, what's the future hold?
What's next?
I know you've still got a lot towork, a lot of work to do in the
hip hop museum, but what what'snext?
What can you what can you giveus a sneak peek of?
Uh, what's next, man?

SPEAKER_06 (55:39):
I I'm working in Memphis.

SPEAKER_02 (55:42):
Ah, that's right.

SPEAKER_06 (55:43):
So the city of Memphis and Shelby County,
they've commissioned a team thatI'm on uh as the architect to
design a hip hop museum of theSouth.
So, I mean, this is early, earlyin the discussions.
But um, you know, Memphis isknown for celebrating its music

(56:05):
history.
Um, and they want to design andcreate a hip-hop museum, but one
that's totally dedicated to thestory of the South.
So yeah.
We've been working on it forabout a year now, doing some
community engagement, about tostart reaching out to artists,
doing some more uh discussionsabout how do we tell this story

(56:26):
in the South.
But that's that's my nextproject.
And what I love about it is thisone is being funded by the
county and the city thus far.
Wow.
They see the importance of it.
That's dope.

SPEAKER_02 (56:37):
So let me introduce you to the to the to the hip-hop
artist of the south right here.

SPEAKER_04 (56:42):
Hey, look, I could be biased, but this sounds like
a brilliant idea.

SPEAKER_06 (56:48):
Yes, I gotta show you.
You you all over our board.
We got a board mapping out thethe south of hip-hop.
The hip-hop of the south, man,looks like a crazy crime scene.
Now we got like people connectedto each other, like what's the
story to tell?
How do we connect differentstates, different cities?
But yeah, we definitely gottawe'd love to bring you on.
And right now we're talkingabout again what the stories

(57:09):
are, what memorabilia is outthere, because a lot of other
museums have you know purchasedor they own our history.
So, how do we create spaces andkeep things that are relevant to
our culture to us?
So amen.
Yeah, so we got to catch up.
You know, and if Memphis, ifMemphis don't pull it off, you

(57:29):
know, Houston, hey, I'm sayingHouston can.

SPEAKER_04 (57:33):
I'll leave that charge all day.
All day.

SPEAKER_02 (57:37):
Well, thank you, sir.
It is an absolute pleasure tocatch back up with you, and and
we got to continue to talk nowthat we got you know this museum
that Bun's got to be in.

SPEAKER_04 (57:47):
Yeah, sign me up for the South Museum.
And if you need anything in theBronx, let me know because we're
coming.
We're coming.

SPEAKER_02 (57:54):
All right.

SPEAKER_06 (57:56):
Well, great to meet y'all.
Great catching up with youagain, Tom, and I'm looking
forward to walking y'all throughthe Bronx.

SPEAKER_02 (58:01):
Can't wait.

SPEAKER_05 (58:01):
Can't wait to see it.
And wait, can't wait.

SPEAKER_02 (58:03):
This is Michael Ford, the hip hop architect.
Listener, follow the show onInstagram at UnglossyPod,
subscribe to Ungloss on Apple,Spotify, or if you listen to the
podcast, leave us a comment onInstagram, spread the word.
Until next time, I'm talkingfriends.
I'm Jeff Slay, and I'm Bunny.

SPEAKER_04 (58:19):
This is Unglossy.

SPEAKER_02 (58:21):
Unglossy, please,