5 YRS AGO NXT ON USA POST-SHOW: Karrion Kross relinquishing due to injury, Breezango with first WWE title win, Ciampa returning as heel

In this week's 5 Yrs Ago Flashback episode of the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post-show (8-26-2020), we flash back to the "PWT Talks NXT" episode featuring PWTorch's Kelly Wells, Tom Stoup, and Nate Lindberg cover Karrion Kross relinquishing due to injury, Breezango with their first WWE title win, Tommaso Ciampa returning as a heel, and more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (01:03):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
P W Torch brings you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling.

Speaker 4 (01:07):
Post Show.

Speaker 5 (01:11):
Five years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
This week on the NXT Post Show, Kelly Wells, Tom
Stoup and Nate Limberg hosted and they reacted to Carrion
Cross relinquishing the NXT title due to injury, Brizango's first
WWE titlemin Tomasso Champa returning as a heel, and more
So let's get to it. This is over two hours
of analysis that originally live streamed on August twenty six,
twenty twenty and it is today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling

(01:34):
post show five years ago NXT Flashback for Sunday, August
twenty fourth, twenty twenty five. This is part two of
our weekend flashback. Yesterday was the Dynamite post show that
I hosted with Joel Dnell. So here we go with
the NXT flashback.

Speaker 4 (01:58):
Well alow high everyone. Wow, it feels good to say
that I'm back.

Speaker 6 (02:03):
I'm Kelly Wells.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
I'm your host of PWT Talks and XT. I have
been out due to a pressing family matter. I had
two of the hardest weeks of my life.

Speaker 7 (02:12):
I'm not.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
I'm actually underselling that point. They were the two worst
weeks in my life, and at the end of it
it all went away. I'm not going to get into
why I had to be gone really, only to say
that it was very difficult.

Speaker 6 (02:26):
Very few of you knew a couple of people did
because they had to.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
My co host knew because they had to, so.

Speaker 6 (02:35):
They knew why it was out a.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
Little bit even I don't know, but it's completely But
that's a whole of different ball of wax. All I
can say is things are back to normal. Thanks for
those of you who reached out, who knew because they
had to. And then a couple of people earlier today
said I'm sorry I didn't know, and I'm sorry I
didn't say anything, but there was no way you could have.
You have nothing to apologize for. I'm glad to be

(02:59):
back among my Torch family. I'm glad to be back
to my relatively regular life, and I'm glad to talk
about NXT and I'm glad that I get to do
it on a week where so much stuff happened. I'm
not just exactly sure even what order to go in
on this show because it was all important. You can
find me all over social media at Spooky Milk. You

(03:19):
can email this show at PW Torch NXT at gmail
dot com, and if you want to call us, you
can do that at five one, five, six oh five, nine,
three four five. Have been gone for a couple of weeks,
but that was muscle memory and I'm almost sure it
was right.

Speaker 6 (03:34):
I will also be back.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
This week on PW on NXT eight Years Back, the
podcast that covers eight years ago what happened on NXT
eight years ago. This week, what happened was we crowned
the first ever NXT champion.

Speaker 6 (03:50):
So it makes it.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
Very very fortuitous for the shows I covered that. We're
going to be talking about a new champion next week
as well. I talked about that on my podcast. We
recorded it today with my good friend Tom Stoup.

Speaker 8 (04:06):
Thank you, yes at Tom Stoup. And indeed, so much
happened on this show, so I'm just going to pass
it right on forward to our other co host, Nate
lin Berg.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
Well, what's going on guys at date?

Speaker 7 (04:16):
Lindbergh on Twitter and I write the NXT hits and missus,
and since we have so much to cover, Kelly, I'm
actually not going to say shut up and welcome back.

Speaker 6 (04:24):
Oh that's awesome.

Speaker 4 (04:25):
That's very nice view and very surprising and confusing. We
got a lot of emails as well, so I'll try
to work those in at the proper time, and the
one or two that I inevitably forget to work in.

Speaker 6 (04:37):
I will work in at the end.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
Normally we start before I go to the phone lines,
and if you want to call, you just got to
hit that. That's pound one or one pound, whatever it is.
There's a one involved. I know that if you want
to be on the show. A lot of listeners this
week because a lot of things happen.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
So.

Speaker 4 (04:56):
We normally go to the main event. Main event was nice,
it was a whack tag match. But we are going
to with no disrespect to anything that happened on this
week's show, we're going to talk about the main event
of next.

Speaker 6 (05:06):
Week's show first. So in the opening.

Speaker 4 (05:10):
Segment, we found out that Carrion Cross does have to
relinquish the title. He came out in a dapper suit
and I was like, what's going on with part of
that suit because it's in low light.

Speaker 6 (05:19):
And then I see he's in a sling and I.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
Go, oh no, this is going to be a couple
day championship reign on the heels of a whatever it was,
forty five day rain or whatever it was, and Carrion
Cross is going to relinquish this belt.

Speaker 6 (05:34):
And indeed that's what happened.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
He did have a nice little brag session before he
did so, but then he relinquished the championship, and our
beginning of our second hour, where we always have a
big moment, that's where William Regal was actually in the arena.
It doesn't seem like that happens very often.

Speaker 6 (05:52):
He does most of this stuff.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
From home at this point, and he had the title
on a podium and announced that next week we would
have a four way match between four previous champions. I
really like this trick, by the way. Yes, I realize
that there's no chance of a fresh champion. I get that,
but I also really dig the idea that if the

(06:14):
title is vacated, that you go back to people that
have proven that they can run with the championship. I'm
not against that. What I didn't see coming was that
it will be a one hour iron man match. My
early prediction is that it's going to end in a
two way tie, and they're going to drag this out
and we're going to have another week where the top

(06:34):
two people end up in a singles match. But that's
an early prediction from me. So if it happens, you
heard it here first or even earlier, because I said
it on my recap as well.

Speaker 6 (06:47):
Also got a couple of emails about this.

Speaker 4 (06:49):
Before I throw to you, guys, this is from our
friend Andrew Gambil. I'm sure this topic is the bulk
of conversation tonight, so I hope it's not too redundant.
This vacancy feels like it came at the worst possible time.
For months, it felt like NXT had more top talent
than they had spots for. But with Cross injured, Lee
and Riddle and Ron SmackDown die Jack supposedly called up
and done in the UK, they seem to be lacking.

Speaker 6 (07:11):
Some of their star power.

Speaker 4 (07:12):
The way I see it, the big four that I
think they could slot into the main event are Gargano, Cole, Champa,
and Balord, but none of them feel like they've been
doing enough of importance and it seems too soon to
go back to Cole. I would include Dream in a
top five, but I don't think they can or should
go with him.

Speaker 6 (07:26):
I think NXT will be just fine.

Speaker 4 (07:28):
They have a solid mid card and a competent booking team,
but right now I'm having a hard time predicting what's next.

Speaker 6 (07:33):
But maybe that's going to be the best thing for NXT.

Speaker 4 (07:35):
Andrew g Amusingly, he sent that about eight to ten
minutes before the announcement that the four guys he called
out were indeed in next week's match.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
He saw, I must have your emails.

Speaker 6 (07:48):
Yes, he's got the somewhat.

Speaker 4 (07:53):
Somewhat interesting superower power to see ten minutes into the future.
So then we got one more that was primarily about this.
I believe it was the one by David Podner. I
understand with Cross being injured needing to call an audible
and the four way iron Man match will be great,
but having one unexpected person would have been nice. Also,
the flaming logo by Scarlett was totally bad ass. Ps

(08:14):
I wonder if Robert Stone dreams of tanks Dave Podner,
all right, so next week we're going to have an
iron Man match that will take the last hour and
maybe even the last hour and ten minutes of the
show up, who knows.

Speaker 6 (08:31):
So yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

Speaker 4 (08:34):
So what do you think main event?

Speaker 3 (08:39):
Tom Can't sleep Tanks will eat me?

Speaker 8 (08:44):
Yes. Regal nailed it when he said that Cross does
everything with conviction. Because this was such a fantastic relinquishing
of a title.

Speaker 5 (08:54):
It feels like the title is still his.

Speaker 8 (08:58):
It doesn't just feel like, oh, hey, I never lost
it and so I have a claim to it when
I come back.

Speaker 5 (09:02):
It feels like this title is still his, and I love.

Speaker 8 (09:08):
I love the promo that he gave, and I feel like,
even though I try not to, I feel like I
need jerk to face and heel turns a lot with
especially lately, like the whole Undisputed era.

Speaker 5 (09:21):
Thing that I called out, but.

Speaker 8 (09:23):
This felt like a baby face turn on the way
out for him, and it honestly, it made me more
excited for Cross in the future than I would be
if he just you know, abs and makes absence makes
the heart grow fonder and everything. But this made me
excited to see him return more than I would be
excited to see whatever the next thing is that he
would do normally, so so really really excellent, excellent relinquishing

(09:48):
if that was the thing that he had to do.

Speaker 5 (09:49):
Of course, it's unfortunate we've got the two.

Speaker 8 (09:51):
Shortest reins in a row here. But another thing, just
another detail, is that I really picked up on and
I'm maybe reading in to some that's not there, but
I really picked up on during the match with Keith
Lee that Cross comes off to me like a big
game poacher's who admires his prey before he takes it down,
and that emerged in different ways throughout the Lee match,

(10:12):
but I also viewed him.

Speaker 5 (10:13):
Looking at the title that way as well.

Speaker 8 (10:15):
So just not enough good things to say about that segment. Obviously,
it's an unfortunate situation, but they really turned on a
dime and made the best of it, I think. So
it was funny because I was just watching Emergence last
night Impacts Emergence and they did a thirty event at
iron Man match between Jordan Grace and Deiana Prazzo, and
it got me thinking, like, I wonder if we're ever
going to see a sixty minute iron Man match again,

(10:36):
Like is there do? Do people just not have the
attention span for that anymore?

Speaker 5 (10:42):
And here we are, literally the next day getting our
next one.

Speaker 8 (10:45):
The fact that it's a fatal four way, and I'm
hard pressed to think of one of those, like a
more than two person iron Man match ever taking place.

Speaker 5 (10:53):
I'm sure there's one or another that I'm just not
thinking of, but I'm definitely excited for. But let's see.

Speaker 8 (11:02):
Scroll into my regal notes now halfway through the show. Yeah,
it's I feel like, obviously they wanted to hype Tomaso
Champa's return on Takeover before the cross.

Speaker 5 (11:13):
Injury happened, and I knew that they were gonna have to.

Speaker 8 (11:15):
Deal with that, but like, watching this segment, I was
just like, oh, man, if they had that foresight, this
would have been the place to bring back Champa. But
that's just some fantasy stuff off to the side. What
I'm really focused on here is if anybody's been reading
the hits and misses that I picked up over the
past two weeks or or the past week for the
regular TV and then for the Takeover. A big sticking

(11:37):
point for me has been how Balor has been booked,
and like here I am again feeling like the biggest
Balor supporter who doesn't actually really care for the guy
all that much, but I see his drawing power, and
it seems like he's just stuck in this backwards gatekeeper role,
like instead of being built up on TV to lose

(11:57):
meaningful matches on Tap Takeover, he loses meaningful matches on
TV to then win throwaway grudge matches on Takeover against
guys who he probably should be putting over. So it's
that's really weird, and I feel like they're on the
precipice of losing the bankability of Balor, like if it
hasn't happened already.

Speaker 5 (12:18):
And so here we are with perhaps a last.

Speaker 8 (12:21):
Chance gasp at getting what you can out of Balor
while he's here. The downside to this is, yes, that
none of these champions will be fresh champions, but Balor
went to the main roster for a while, he's completely reinvented.
Now that he's back in NXT, he feels wrapped back
up in the NXT product. He doesn't feel like he's
got that main roster stink on him. Just go all

(12:44):
the way with this guy already, I feel like this
match is absolutely Balors to lose. I like your idea, Kelly,
of it going to a tie, and I would suggest
Baler versus Champa for that, especially after what we saw
from Champa tonight. But but yeah, my eyes are on
Valor for this one. But it's it's intriguing, and I'm
impressed with how they scrambled to put together something that's
compelling but also something that sells me on the guy

(13:07):
who was supposed to get put over in the first place.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
Part of the reason it's so hard to predict is
because in general those of us who kind of can
put on our booking hats and really make sense of things.
The reason is is because there's a plan and we
can see through their actions what the plan is. This
time there is no plan because the plan got hurt,
so it's not so easy to predict. I too, think

(13:33):
that the right answer here is Finn because partially because
it feels.

Speaker 6 (13:38):
The most fresh.

Speaker 4 (13:40):
Johnny feels like he's got a whole bunch of things
going on that he doesn't really need a lot of
help from that championship right now, Champa's going to be doing.
We'll get to Champa and then Cole. It certainly seems
like the comfortable pair of shoes you could put on.
But he's got I think he's probably got a hero's

(14:01):
journey in his future, and we're gonna see that start
to play out soon. I would have thought maybe the
whole UI would would go in go with him, But
we'll get to that as well, And to the continuing
follies of whether the PC crowd is supposed to cheer
or booth the Undisputed Era, because what the hell.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
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(14:47):
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Speaker 4 (14:55):
Okay, so anyway, on next week it's made event Nate.

Speaker 7 (15:02):
So I I'm I'm really impressed with what they did
at uh in short notice for some of you guys.
You know, so it was last week or actually on Saturday,
and we were doing the VIP after show and we
kind of started to find out about Carrion Cross, you know,
I uh where I was doing the live report. I
didn't really get to check social media or anything before

(15:22):
we jumped onto the to start recording and rich Fan
brought it up. You know, I think it was like
halfway through that, you know, the shoulder separation happened and
then Tom came in and actually told us how how
bad it seemed to be. So that's kind of when,
you know, we started thinking about Karen Cross potentially having
to relinquish tonight, and unfortunately that's obviously what happened.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
But I feel like they.

Speaker 7 (15:46):
Did make uh you make lemonade out of uh.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
You know what they had.

Speaker 7 (15:50):
You know, it's like you guys said, you've got four
former champions coming into this match next week. You know,
I think any one of them could have a could
really have kind of a case to be made to win.
I agree Balor seems like a probably a share fire
for this. However, I could also I could also make

(16:11):
a case for Coal. You're putting the belt back on him.
You know where he was the longest champion, he did
just have the belt, he did lose it. I feel
like they could put it back on him, although it
may end up interrupting some of the things they have
in mind. And again we'll talk about that in a
little bit. For Undisputed Era, I could also kind of

(16:32):
make a case in a way. I'm I think I'm
leaning towards Balor, but I'm kind of putting Champa in
like a very close second for the for the win,
because I I was speculating anyway that when Champa came back,
he would be feuding with Cross, and I thought it
was a little interesting that he was coming back tonight,

(16:53):
which was announced before the Cross injury. I thought it
was interesting that he was coming back tonight after Cross
had been crowned technically even crown champion. You know, obviously
the injury may have derailed things, but I was wondering
if Champa was gonna end up, you know, toilet like,
you know, feuding with Cross or anything like that. It's
possible they might put the belt on him and come

(17:13):
back to that feud once Cross is.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
Healed up.

Speaker 7 (17:19):
At that point, obviously somebody would need to have some
sort of character change because you know, heel versus heel,
But I think it might be they might be able
to do it. The crowd might be happy to see
Carry and Cross come back, cheer him until he gets
the win, and you know, then he can kind of
definitively turn heel kind of play a tweener role until then.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
But I don't know.

Speaker 7 (17:40):
We'll obviously see what what happens. But I really like
the idea Balert. I like the idea of Champa. I
can't really Gargano, I think is probably the one person
that I'd say he is the least chance of winning.
I just I don't know. For some reason, I feel
like that would not be a that would not be
the most favorable outcome. It would be good for his

(18:05):
annoying heel persona, but I think overall it wouldn't It
wouldn't feel as big as any of the other three.
But yeah, overall, liked it. I like seeing Regal tonight.
I don't think we've seen him on TV actually in
the arena since this whole COVID thing happened. We've only
seen him in like a zoom call or virtual meeting

(18:26):
things like that. It was nice to see him tonight
and actually, you know, participating in TV.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
Not that I'm complaining that he was staying away.

Speaker 7 (18:33):
I'm sure he's doing it for his own health and
I completely support that. But it was just good to
see his face. So yeah, pass it back to you.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
You know, I've been really happy that I can be
back at home after all the stuff that went down
in my life went down, and my daughter who stays
up late, one of my two daughters because she just
has a lack of a need for sleep, just like
her dad wanted to hang tonight and she was and
she forgot that it was podcast night, and I said,

(19:04):
don't worry. Maybe it'll be one of those weeks where
nothing happens and we'll have nothing to talk about that
did not happen. Wrong. That is a bummer for her,
I guess, but but a good thing for you, the
listener and the viewer of NXT. You've got us at
five o five six one five Nope, nope, nope five

(19:25):
one five six oh five nine three four five and
uh and our good friend Durrell Freeman did just that,
so we're going to put him on and uh, no
shortage of topics, Durrell. Uh, what did you think of
this week?

Speaker 9 (19:39):
Very interested show? Glad to see you back, Kelly doing
Tom and how you doing, Nate. Glad to talk to
you guys this week.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
You two man you too, Yes, sir, I was.

Speaker 9 (19:53):
Liking what you guys were saying about the four people
who they put seem like, especially with the heel turned
that they they had to Morso's turn. And I seem
like every time I called into the show and I
hear Tom talk we get more and more in linked
now with how we're thinking, because I sure did think
they set up Harry and Cross to be a babyface

(20:16):
coming back, and they made it seem like the injuries
because they how Regal came out and talked like the
injury was serious. And usually and their type of speeches
when they come out and make the injury seem like serious,
that it's gonna be a long time before they come back.
They usually come back quicker than what you think. So
and how they set up and now everybody's going heel

(20:39):
set finch that you might think that one of these
guys who's gonna be a heel maybe between Tamassel Trump
or even Fence. I don't think Johnny will win it.
Or they could go back with Cole and how they
did when the ue of them going here staying hill
and beat up on Drake Maverick. So maybe did Adam

(21:00):
Cole or Tamasco Trumper and then we get a quick
turn around for carrying Cross comeback. So what did y'all
think about with Camasco Trumper staying here? You e showing
that they was hell with the weirdness of uh, with
the weirdness of that angle kind of sort of with

(21:23):
get off him, don't do it, then let him beat
them up and stuff like that, and with Kyle and
what he was doing. Do you think one of those
two guys or the potential guys who maybe with that
tie or something that Tom was saying could happen, or
just how did y'all feel about those two angles and
with them being the four people who in it?

Speaker 6 (21:45):
Okay, so as I stated, I love that the fact
I love the fact that it's.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
These four guys. I really really like that that they
kept it to guys that are there, that they didn't
have a series of qualifiers, that kept it real simple
and said, these are the champions that we've had, these
are the guys.

Speaker 6 (22:04):
We know who can carry the company.

Speaker 4 (22:05):
I think that logically, if you were to go deep
into KFA, that is the situation that makes the most sense.
Certainly makes a lot more sense than a bunch of
qualifying triple threats, which historically have been ways for people
to win in really stupid ways, Like why in reality
would you say this is how you get to this

(22:27):
ladder match another match where also you can win in
really silly contrived ways. But whatever, it was fun don't
get me wrong, but yes, this is just a real
simple and I'm glad they kept it simple because they've
gotten very cute with these things, and to set it
up with just one match allegedly, I'm going to stick

(22:47):
to that two match series idea even after I'm wrong,
I'm gonna say it should have been the way. But yes,
so Tomaso Champa, the show has a real babyface problem.

Speaker 6 (23:00):
There aren't any. Not that long ago.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
Finn Balor showed up and he turned heel, and he
was sure, I turned heel. And now they are the
defining babyfaces of their divisions. And Finn isn't a classic
smiling babyface, but he is the furthest on the baby
face side of the ledger of the four. Cole of course,

(23:26):
has been in a sympathetic role of late, but not
a babyface right now.

Speaker 6 (23:33):
Now, that said, the fact that setting aside the fact.

Speaker 4 (23:38):
That there's a babyface problem, you see Tomaso do the
job he did today. He went over Jake Atlas in
fifty seconds and then he did it. Beat down, briefly,
sat like he was surprised at himself, like this is
not what I meant to be, But then he attacked
Atlas again, used the was it a monkey flip or whatever?

Speaker 6 (24:01):
He did into the.

Speaker 4 (24:03):
Atlas into the underside of the ring, which is a
pretty nice visual that I don't remember seeing anytime recently,
sat up on the apron like he does. He stopped
short of the self pat on the back and the clapping,
but he sat up there, jumped him again and this
time just smiled at him. And you see him do
all this with the conviction and everything that he is,

(24:24):
and you say, how can they not?

Speaker 6 (24:26):
It doesn't matter that they have a baby face problem.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
This guy is a must as a heel, a must
as a heel. Undisputed Era is a little different. It's
great that they got their thing going with Drake Maverick
and Killian Dane. I guess we can roll these two
various short matches together. Kyle O'Reilly goes over Drake Maverick
in three twenty six. I thought a very enjoyable fun

(24:49):
three twenty six, Drake showing his usual fire, Kyle having
too much in the way of his powerful kicks, and
he gets the win, and of course two of his
undispeted Era brothers at ringside. Killian Dane comes to the
ring paying off where he was wrestling Drake Maverick a
couple of weeks ago, and Undisputed Era jumped.

Speaker 6 (25:09):
Them all, and he attacks and.

Speaker 4 (25:12):
Clears out undispeeded Era. But then Drake Maverick, who's already
hobbled and looking pathetic, and you just cheer for him
because that's what you do, and he says thank you,
and he hobbles over, and Dane takes this guy who's
already been destroyed and destroys him with a lariat and
walks off. I still think this ends with Dane and

(25:37):
Maverick at one another's sides, whether it's marriage of convenience
or not, and I think you might be able to
get something with that pairing. I think that's where this
is headed. So I'm okay with that part of the angle.
With undispeted Air being healed. I don't know if that
makes sense at all. It seems like those three of
Undispeted Era are about to get seriously lost in the

(25:58):
shovel Tom.

Speaker 5 (26:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (26:01):
With the Drake thing overall, I feel like this segment
saved some of Drake's equity. After two weeks ago he
was the throwaway in a throwaway segment that was the
backdrop for two other much more important overlapping segments. It
just felt like such a bad spot for him after

(26:22):
he just sort of took the l against Santos Escobar
and hasn't brought it up since the last time he
took the Phantom driver that was That was just sort
of it. The only miss for him here is really
just that they didn't show his social media promo, because
he acquitted himself very well as he does and and
made me believe why he would want to wrestle O'Reilly

(26:44):
here rather than just a random like they sort of
have an issue.

Speaker 5 (26:46):
I guess we'll take up some TV time with it.

Speaker 8 (26:49):
Yeah, your idea about Dane and Drake definitely occurred to me.
I was also thinking, perhaps likely, or perhaps even more likely,
is just that this goes to another Dane Drake match
that actually gets time and isn't just a backdrop throwaway,
and Drake wins with a roll up and kind of
finds himself evens himself out back.

Speaker 5 (27:09):
To where he was before two weeks ago.

Speaker 8 (27:12):
As far as the undisputed Eras involvement, I don't really
have too many ideas there.

Speaker 5 (27:15):
It's a lot of shades of gray.

Speaker 8 (27:17):
I think it's just something to keep an eye on
to see if it if it shows up in the
Iron Man match next week and play some sort of
difference maker there, perhaps to Cole's detriment. Yeah, and as
we're the Champa thing, so this is more or less
the same, you know, not the post match, but the

(27:38):
the just the match against somebody we knew Champa was
going to destroy is basically the same thing that they
did when they inconspicuously brought him back against Garza. And
maybe inconspicuous is not the is too strong a term,
but it's just at first you're like, really, this is
what they're bringing Champa back to do?

Speaker 5 (27:54):
Just go over a jobber.

Speaker 8 (27:57):
And at first this didn't read as a heel to me.
It just read as Champa being a badass and being frustrated,
you know, still frustrated over the lingering issues of why
he drove away in the first place. But then the
crowd was produced to jeer him, and the refs were
produced to act like he was being unreasonable, and I

(28:21):
was just like, I mean, okay, injuries happened, and it
wouldn't be fair of me to call out the Domino
effect of calling the Keith Lee audible for a cheap
ratings grab at Great American Bash. So I won't do that,
but I will say that the issue here is that
this is the Champa we want to see, and maybe
I should just speak for myself, this is the Champa

(28:41):
I want to see. I want to see him being
a badass if he just beat the crap out of
Jake Atlas, who yes is a baby face and yes
is a wrestler I admire, but he's not somebody that
we have been given any reason to really care about
on NXT.

Speaker 5 (28:54):
He's just a body.

Speaker 8 (28:55):
So yeah, beat the crap out of him, and Champa's
a badass, But then you've got the crowd boo him.
So so it's something that I'm not buying as a
heel turn that I that is being presented as a
heel turn. So I think I think that could be
an issue. But I like, I like what you're onto, Durell,
and I will I will definitely take that that we

(29:16):
we do seem to be on the same wavelength. And
the reason I'll take it is because you tend to
have some pretty good fantasy booking ideas, and I I
think you may be onto something with Cross because you know,
granted they it was only a prognosis, not a diagnosis
after takeover, but Triple H made.

Speaker 5 (29:32):
It sound like it could be.

Speaker 8 (29:35):
Something where they have to take the title off of him,
but it could be something where you know, it's it's
not as bad, like like Balor's thing after SummerSlam four
years ago was a laborum tear and he needed surgery
and he was out for a long time. This is
this doesn't appear to be that. And even the reports
on I think it was ESPN that I was reading,
we're saying just ration, which is not as long of

(30:01):
a healing time. I'm no doctor, but that's just what
doctor Google was telling me. So this could be a
situation where normally they might just say, okay, let's just
have Cross carry the title, cut promos, be a badass
without getting physical, and once he's healed after what may
be a brief healing time, we'll just get back to

(30:21):
having him in the ring as we're building up challengers.
But of course, like with the and I, you know,
this is more of a.

Speaker 5 (30:30):
Necessity rather than I don't know, I don't know what
words I want to use for it.

Speaker 8 (30:35):
But if this doesn't read as a cheap ratings grab
calling an audible like the Great American Basche situation, this
feels like maybe they're like, all right, we could leave
the title on Cross, but we're running unopposed for a
few weeks here, and we need to do our damnedest
to take advantage of that and not give anybody the

(30:55):
excuse to not be watching USA on Wednesday nights. And
what better way to do that than have this crazy
iron Man match for the title that's more of a
draw than whatever they could be doing with Cross in
the meantime while he's while he's healing.

Speaker 5 (31:10):
So yeah, I think you might be onto something.

Speaker 4 (31:16):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 8 (31:32):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.

Speaker 4 (31:48):
Go ahead, me.

Speaker 7 (31:50):
So I was actually even before you said you looked
up your healing time, I looked up the healing time
for separate shoulder separation, saying something along the lines like
four to twelve weeks. Obviously, I'm no doctor, I was
doctor Google there too, but you so, I was kind
of I was speculating a little bit on the on
the VIP after show that we might see, you know,

(32:12):
we might see exactly that scenario. You keep, you know,
keep the title on Caron Cross. He's you know, in
non wrestling roles or you know, until he he's finally
healed up, if he's able to you know, if he's
able to heal up relatively quick. Let's say, for example,
this is a twelve week thing, right so you know,
worst case scenario, it's twelve week things, it's like four months,

(32:34):
that's about the next takeover time that we'll see, you know,
that he could potentially be coming back.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
I kind of, you.

Speaker 7 (32:42):
Know, I kind of like you Well, so Durrell said it.
You know, Karen Cross was kind of you know, positioned
as a bit of a baby face, or he positioned
himself as a potential babyface for his return. He could
at least make that case, So I don't know, I
kind of I kind of hold with my what I
was talking about a little bit ago with Champa, you know,
maybe winning and you know, going into going on to

(33:03):
face Carry and Cross as a as a baby face.
I'm kind of, you know, at least at least in
that match, and then you know, he could obviously, you know,
transition back to heel. I feel like that's probably where
that character belongs, is on the heel side of things,
at least for at least for now.

Speaker 3 (33:20):
Excuse me.

Speaker 7 (33:22):
The the other thing that I wanted to bring up,
and I meant to bring this up when we were
talking about talking about the me for next week's main event, Tom,
you said you said that you weren't sure if there
was ever another six or four man fatal four way
that was a tongue twister and or sorry, four man
sixty minute iron Man match.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
Wow, that's what I meant, and I looked it up.

Speaker 7 (33:46):
There was at least one in Ring of Honor back
in two thousand and two. But that's that's the only
one that I can actually find. Loki, Christopher Daniels, Doug Williams,
and Spanky believe it or not. So Yeah, but as
far as uh yeah, chance, that's so, yeah, that's with Champa.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
What was the other thing?

Speaker 7 (34:06):
Oh yeah, Drake Maverick and uh uh Killian Dane. It was,
I mean, it was certainly a squash. I I kind
of am. I was thinking the same thing as u Kelly. Uh,
you know, they potentially might see them tag up to
take on take on Undisputed Era. Even after the you know,

(34:26):
the beatdown, it was on my mind. I'm I'm not
sold on it. I'm kind of thinking it's like I
kind of do you think it probably will end up
We'll see, you know, the two of them go sing
you know, going to singles match for now, and and
I'm not sure exactly where it's gonna lead. I think
it also depends too on if Adam Cole ends up winning.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
Or not at you know, next week.

Speaker 7 (34:49):
If he does that, that could potentially change things for
the whole Undisputed Era storyline too. So there's a few
things up in the air now, So I'm not really sure,
but you know it it was. Uh. I'm just I'm
glad to see Drake Maverick getting some time, but I
wish I wish he was getting utilized a little bit better.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
I like Drake Maverick.

Speaker 4 (35:10):
I think that he's on the way to being utilized again,
and I do think that helping with uh Santos. Escobar
will show up again, but it'll be on Drake's terms,
and I think it'll be in a way that makes
him look good whether or not he wins the championship.
I don't know I'm on record as saying that that
Escobar should hold that championship until he dies, but but

(35:34):
I think that that if he has to lose it,
Dracer will at least be somebody in line for it. Darrell,
what else did you see this week?

Speaker 9 (35:47):
Okay, going to something that y'all probably would have talked about,
but it ties into my thoughts on that fatal four
way also with the early tag team that and before
I gets that people, let's not I hope people will
stop fighting shows or college in shows actually win speculating
when the NXT person's gonna get called up the ball,

(36:10):
So we'll stop putting that thought invents head and that
CALFI after you've seen what happened to Keith Lee on
Monday and stuff like that, and just how they vision people.
I don't want to go on or ranting about that.
But so I'm not even gonna speculate undisputed error gonna
go I don't even want to put that thought in
my head. But going to the tag team man, we

(36:33):
see Brizango win the title. I kind of figured once
I seen them win, I don't won the title. I
didn't get upset because I now with the announcement of
nxc UK's coming back, I'm pretty sure that those two
are going over there, and another person who I assume
to be going over there, who they were building up
to be the next big challenger for Walter is being

(36:55):
Balot and I know y'all was talking about what they're
gonna do with him and stuff like that. That's why
I don't think he winning the title over here either,
because I think they still want to use him as
the guy to take out Walter who been champion for
three hundred days now, just because of the pandemic and stuff.
So what did you guys think about that match? And
did you think that that's the reason why the other

(37:18):
un Imperium guys lost the titles, that they're going back
over there to the UK, that they're in a c
UK is coming back, which I'm so happy about the
one of the biggest NSDU Bay supporters. What did you
guys think about that? And my thoughts on those three
people going back to the UK and helping.

Speaker 4 (37:37):
That brand poor imperium. They won the championships on free TV,
they lost the championships on free TV, and then in
between that they were not on takeover and then they
lose the match. They lose their championships in a match
that went fifteen to nineteen, but it's on a week

(37:58):
where they didn't do split screen and there were two
commercial breaks, so we only saw about seven or seven
and a half minutes of this match.

Speaker 6 (38:06):
That's what we saw.

Speaker 4 (38:07):
And I guess Port Brazanga as well, because they won
the championships in a match that was largely not televised.
And this is the first championship of any kind for
both Tyler Breeze and Fandango in the entirety of WWE.
Maybe they did in FCW everyone else did, so they

(38:27):
probably did, but they don't really count that. I did
not think about the fact that this could be because
of nxt UK. I actually only thought about this in
terms later on where Brazango got tangled up with the

(38:47):
cronies in Legato del Phantasma and I thought, oh, this
is a transition to get Legato del Fantasma all holding gold.
That's what this is about, for those guys all to
be able to hold championships. And I still think that's
what will happen. But but of course this is to
get Imperium back home. I'm sure there will be more

(39:09):
sharing of talent as there's already been, and I really.

Speaker 6 (39:14):
Look forward to nxdu can.

Speaker 4 (39:15):
Coming back to that hype statement really worked on me
during Takeover, and unfortunately it's going to take a little longer.
But yes, that could be true of Balor as well,
because he was tabbed to be takeover.

Speaker 6 (39:28):
Was it going to be in Dublin. I don't remember.

Speaker 4 (39:31):
I think maybe it was Dublin. Yeah, Dublin, okay, so
and and Finn was going to be involved with that,
and of course if it was in Dublin, yeah, yeah,
he was going to win that match probably.

Speaker 6 (39:43):
Unless they unless they reverted to everybody loses.

Speaker 4 (39:46):
In their hometown and that bull crap that Vince used
to pull. But that's a good point about Finn because
they really kind of were doing a good job of
promoting Finn versus Walter before this whole thing happened. But
they also did create a number one contender from a

(40:06):
Battle Royal that was the last match on nxt UK
that positioned Iliot Dragonoff as the number one contender, So
I assume they can do that first if they really
want to hold off with Finn. I also think if
they think Finn is the right guy, then they'll put
all this stuff with Walter on the back burner because

(40:26):
nxt will be treated as a higher priority than nxt UK.
But these are really some pretty interesting questions, Nate.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 7 (40:39):
That was actually what I was going to just say,
is you know, n xt IS is probably going to
be treated as the higher of the two brands, well
not probably, will almost definitely be treated as the higher.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
The two brands. So if if Finn.

Speaker 7 (40:51):
Balor Is is the one that they want to win
the title, they'll shuffle the nxt UK brand around.

Speaker 10 (40:57):
You know.

Speaker 7 (40:58):
And I mean obviously where they've kind of been off
TV for a few months now. I think it's a
few months. However long it's been, I've lost track of time.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
I still think it's.

Speaker 7 (41:05):
April, but uh, you know, however long it's been that they've.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
Been off TV.

Speaker 7 (41:10):
They can obviously kind of come back to some new storylines.
It's almost they could hit a reset button, you know,
if need be. So you know, I could see if
if they thought Finn would be the the guy to
win the title, you know it uh them, you know,
kind of shifting gears to do that. However, if they
didn't want to do that, I think it's just another

(41:32):
notch in the Chompa column. And maybe maybe I'm right.

Speaker 11 (41:36):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (41:37):
Eh, we'll see, but yeah, I don't know that. Uh,
that's definitely an interesting, interesting thing. Uh As far as
Imperium and uh as far as i Perium and Brizongo
Go Imperium, we've talked about it since they won the titles.
I mean we we kind of figured these guys are
going to be a transitional champion because, uh it, all

(41:58):
signs pointed to Grizzled Vets being the next NXT champions,
and then the whole pandemic thing happened. Grizzled Young Vets
I believe, if memory serves, they were stuck overseas, so
you know, it all kind of worked out the way
that it did, and Imperium got the Belts, and you know,
as Kelly mentioned who pointed out at the top of
the segment, you know he or Imperium. You know, they

(42:22):
they they've been the champs, they won the titles on
free TV. They weren't on Takeover, they you know, weren't
really featured very much.

Speaker 10 (42:30):
You know.

Speaker 7 (42:30):
So that whole transitional champion thing we've been talking about,
I think kind of rings true. So yeah, this this
probably was a way to get the belts off of
them and you get them back over at n X
t UK at the same time, you know, the whole
story of the whole story they've been doing over the
past few weeks building Brizan go up. Obviously, you know,

(42:51):
playing into you know, this whole win tonight, but they've
been building them up. They've kind of a little more
no nonsense.

Speaker 10 (42:58):
You know.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
One of the things I even wrote in.

Speaker 7 (42:59):
Hit and This is tonight, why didn't we get the
funny emporium entrance?

Speaker 3 (43:04):
And at first I was a little bit upset.

Speaker 7 (43:07):
I'm like I was, I always look forward to the
crazy Brizango entrances, and then I'm like, well, wait a minute,
that really wouldn't work with the story they're telling tonight.
I think even the last time they had, you know,
a big match, they came out with the crazy entrance
and and we even said, like, why did you guys
do that? You know, uh, you want to be taken seriously,
act serious, So you know, I I kind of retracted that.

(43:28):
I wasn't as upset about it once I actually thought
about it, but you know, I definitely played into the
story of them, you know, taking themselves more seriously and
winning the belts tonight. I think Kelly is pretty much
spot on with Logato del Fantasma. I think they're probably
going to do and we you know, I've said it.
I've said it even before tonight. Uh, I think they're
going to kind of do like an undisputed era thing,

(43:48):
hold all the gold, and by all the gold, I
mean the Cruiserweight title and the tag titles, you know,
the North American and the NXT Championship. You know those
are you know, probably be with other people, but at
least a cruiserway to tag titles. I could certainly see
them holding them well deserved, and I think you know,
they could they could certainly certainly do it. They've they've

(44:10):
raised the Cruiserweight title up to be a pretty uh
pretty memorable and meaningful title at this point. So, I
you know, tag team titles have I mean, in my opinion,
they're They're still relatively prestigious, is uh, even though you
know they've kind of been defined down a little bit
over the past few months. But you know, yeah, I

(44:32):
can see them, you know, getting the belts, getting a
good run with them and going from there.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
So, yeah, Tom, what do you think?

Speaker 5 (44:40):
Yeah, I was. You guys covered it real well.

Speaker 8 (44:42):
I was going to say the same thing about Legato
del Fantasma. This is basically just them being like, hey,
can you guys hold those for us for a second,
because these are these are basically their belts right now.

Speaker 5 (44:53):
And the match was fine.

Speaker 8 (44:55):
I'm mostly enjoying Brazango matches right now for the for
how on a bash Beth Phoenixes in her enjoyment of them,
in her in her lust for them.

Speaker 5 (45:07):
I mean, I guess kind.

Speaker 8 (45:08):
Of sad to be talking about you know, Tyler Breeze
and Fondngo's first ever title wins in all of WWE,
which they which they called out on commentary. It was
in my mind and then they mentioned it on commentary
and it's just like, yeah, it was fine.

Speaker 5 (45:24):
They're probably transitional. But but I also will.

Speaker 8 (45:28):
Remember this match as the moment that I learned that
Fondano is also known as the Dangler, which is much
more amusing when it said in Wade Barrett's voice, as
it was on the show tonight.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
H But as always I missed that.

Speaker 10 (45:42):
That's fantastic, oh man, Yeah, the Dangler you know in
insert Beth Phoenix here, And as always we appreciate.

Speaker 5 (45:53):
Durrellman in line.

Speaker 8 (45:54):
I as much as I criticize Balor's booking, it it
does often slip my mind, even though I fully am
aware of the fact that they had this Walter thing
going for him, So as a result of that, it
seems like they've just continued keeping him warm for Walter,
and in a way, he's almost as this has just

(46:16):
continued to go on and on and on in the
United States and get.

Speaker 5 (46:19):
Worse and worse.

Speaker 8 (46:20):
It seems like his booking has been more affected than
most people by by the coronavirus pandemic. And yeah, I
think I think Kelly nailed the options for Balor and
for nxt UK really well, even without being up on
the product. I've been viewing Dragon Off as as the
next Challenger and maybe even Champion over there. But if

(46:43):
they really want to make a statement with this, with
this heightened relationship with BT Sport that they have now
doing the tapings out of their London studio, putting Balor
over there would be a great way to highlight that.
So so they've they've definitely got options and yeah, it's
it's in a situation that is hard to predict because

(47:04):
there are a lot of real life things up in
the air, but it's a very good point of something
to consider regarding Finn and Walter.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
There, we're about to go to a commercial break. While
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(47:33):
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Speaker 6 (47:47):
All right, Durrell, what else from this week?

Speaker 5 (47:51):
Okay?

Speaker 9 (47:52):
And move right? A loan to goe with k do
Hel the Godo, the data in that whole group. I
liked the match that he had with Swerve today. I
know they're gonna have a six way next week. I'm
pretty sure that's where you get them losing. And that's
where you get Swerve up out of the title race

(48:13):
and you put the other rod Duel Mondoza and dj Z.
I always thanks that to dj Z, but that's where
they get they shot to be as a tag team champions.
This was a pretty good match. I wish that they
would have had Wave Barrett or somebody and Night here

(48:33):
and Wave Barrett on coming Tory also, but talk about
the loaded mask because that was so clever with him
having the loaded mask and hit and head button. Isaiah
Sworth got in the head with it again. Like I've
been saying for months, with this, the Cruisewave title has

(48:54):
been the best book title on all WWE shows, have
the best storyline haveing with with Escobar making him into
a hell. Even though the crowd don't boo how they're
supposed to at times, but they really did boo. It's
just they had that announces not talk about him having

(49:15):
unloaded man, even though they were showing them on the monitor.
The zooming portion of him tapping on the noted one.
I wish they would have pointed that out to even
mean even more to the story. But again, I can
excuse that for just a second to say, because it
has been the best book session, how did you guys like?

Speaker 4 (49:34):
This was awesome? Everything about this was great. Now, I'm
a big big fan of Swerve and a big big
fan of the entire Legato del fantasma gimmick. I also
sometimes type DJZ and then make a mental note for
once I remember Joaquin Wilde to change it, because I

(49:56):
also revert to that nomenclature all the time, and and
because joking wild I don't know why it doesn't stick.
It doesn't. It isn't as non stick as Steve Cutler,
but it's non stick Swerve versus escabar. This one went
sixteen forty one. This was a total boulder running downhill.
It just kept getting more and more powerful as it

(50:19):
went on. I really like some of the spots here.
I loved, loved, the spots where they went up the
up the ropes and they were kitty corner from one
and another on the ropes. Swerve went for Irana and
then Escobar was able to turn that into a power
bomb for a seriously convincing near fall. I also really

(50:41):
liked that they didn't over explain the loaded mask, and
I love the fact that the loaded mask represents the
first really really heelish thing that Escobar has done, because
he acts like a heel but a lot of his
beliefs are very rooted in like babyface Lucha technico tradition.

(51:07):
So I really like that they had him really perform
a healish act. And I think that does some favors
to Swerve as well, who has been treated fairly well
in the last couple of months after many months of
fifty to fifty booking, He's been.

Speaker 6 (51:24):
Treated pretty well.

Speaker 4 (51:25):
So would you believe that Santos Escobar is the longest
reigning champion in all of NXT, beating Yosherai by a
couple of days. It's true. Escobar is the longest reigning
champion right now on the brand. So Escobar went over Swerve.
Was there anything else I wanted to? Oh, yes, when
we were talking about Wade Barred as well. I loved

(51:47):
Wade Barrett on commentary. I knew that would be the case.
I watch NWA Power if it still exists. Billy Corgan
thinks it still exists, but he keeps losing everybody, so.

Speaker 6 (51:58):
What's it going to be when it comes back? But
it was it was great to hear from him.

Speaker 4 (52:02):
I was afraid that I would call him Stu Bennett
because that's what I've been calling him for a long
time now, because that's his name, uh and it's what
he's using down there in Georgia.

Speaker 6 (52:13):
But that's what it was.

Speaker 4 (52:14):
Paul Robinson emailed us hi guys with the return tonight
of the wrestler who is the best ever at saying
their own name?

Speaker 6 (52:21):
Wade Barrett?

Speaker 4 (52:22):
Which current wrestler do you think says their own name
the best? My vote would go to Cameron Grimes. What
do you think keep up the good work, Paul in Staffordshire, UK?

Speaker 6 (52:30):
It is, of course Cameron Grimes. It is absolutely the best.

Speaker 4 (52:34):
I don't know what possessed that weirdo to say his
name the way he does, but I'm glad it possessed
him because he is absolutely the best at saying his name,
and nobody comes close.

Speaker 8 (52:45):
Tom, I'm gonna say that it's between either Oscar or
the Iconics. As for the match, yes, of course, this
was a really really good match. And I like how
they're treating Swerve, I like how they're treating Fantasm.

Speaker 5 (52:59):
I love how they're treating fan Tasma.

Speaker 8 (53:00):
Of course, the thing is, it's it's I don't know, nitpicky,
I guess.

Speaker 5 (53:08):
But after being so heavily criticized last week for even.

Speaker 8 (53:12):
Though I thought they did an okay job and it
didn't feel like a show where you could it didn't
feel like there was any filler on the show, racking
my brain real quick, I don't think that's the case.

Speaker 5 (53:25):
I mean, they got off to the races right away
with a match.

Speaker 8 (53:27):
And it was a pretty go go go show, but
still still in the trappings of a go home show.
They got pretty heavily criticized for not taking advantage of
ae W being preempted and not keeping eyes glued to
the screen, and then that's, you know.

Speaker 5 (53:41):
I guess that's just the the objective, that's the just
the majority take on it. From what I've seen.

Speaker 8 (53:47):
This week, they seem to have taken that to heart
and really tried to stack it. And as a result,
this swerve of phantasma match that that they've been doing
such a wonderful job of building too, just got announced
on on social media one day ahead of time. So
I would have liked to anticipate the confirmed booking of
that match more. Maybe that's just a nitpick. Yes, really

(54:10):
good match, but you know, to continue being grumpy about it.
I guess I really wanted to like the loaded mask thing.
I love the old school throwback of a loaded mask
and knee jerk reaction. When I first saw it, I
was just like, oh, I was delighted, and then I realized,
wait a second, this is a hat on a hat.

Speaker 5 (54:32):
Because he's not wearing the mask.

Speaker 8 (54:35):
He uses it on the outside while the referee is
distracted the fact that it's a mask that he has
to put on and make sure that the loading or
you know, whatever the weight that's inside of it is
is in place.

Speaker 5 (54:47):
It's just way too much.

Speaker 8 (54:48):
He may as well have hit the guy with a kendostick,
so it's just it's way too much for.

Speaker 5 (54:52):
A signature weapon.

Speaker 8 (54:53):
If he was going to do this, he should still
be wearing a mask. I don't want the guy to
wear a mask. As I've talked about in the past,
it was a great storytelling with him taking it off,
and I mean, look at the guy so damn handsome,
would you want to put him under a mask? But yeah,
I just I don't think the loaded mask works as
much as I want.

Speaker 5 (55:09):
To like it. And uh, was there anything? I feel
like there was no I got. I think that covers it.

Speaker 4 (55:17):
The reason I liked the Luca mask despite the contrivance
of the spot, is because it seems like it fits
so well with what they're doing with Fantasma, Like it
really calls out his two faced nature and it's very
hypocritical of him to talk about the honor of Luca

(55:38):
and then use that in very mask to perform a
heel act. That's why I think they get away with
it from a storytelling standpoint, even if it's a really,
really contrived spot. So ask me after I've had a
few days to digest it, and I might say it's
a little much. But I liked it for that reason,
and I think that's something that maybe Faces can use

(56:01):
against him. You're acting like you're disconquering Luca Hero but
you're using your own heritage like against honor. I don't
want him to over explain it like that, don't do that.
But but I think so far they get away with it.

Speaker 7 (56:19):
Nate, I would one hundred percent agree. I'm I'm kind
of more in that camp. I I personally really liked it.
You know, it's something that you don't really you know,
you don't see nowadays.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
Really, Uh it's it's you.

Speaker 7 (56:31):
Know, yes, it was a bit of a contrived spot, absolutely,
but you know it was it was it was fun.
It was something that I haven't seen, you know, I
haven't seen personally before, and.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
Uh, you know, it was just like, it's just cool
to see.

Speaker 7 (56:45):
And the fact that what you were just saying, it
takes everything that he has has stood for and everything
that he is is kind of touted and it's basically
just throwing it back in your face, you know, and
kind of disrespecting Luca while he's touting that he wants
everybody to respect it. So I I really liked that
nuance too. The whole the match in and of itself,

(57:09):
I thought was fantastic. I got I mean, I don't
even think I could have anything to nitpick about the
match if I uh, if I tried to be honest,
I really like the fact that Swerve was booked the
way that he was booked.

Speaker 3 (57:20):
No, he didn't win. I didn't expect him to win,
but he has.

Speaker 7 (57:24):
Like I mean when he when he debuted or you know, like,
uh yeah, I think it was he he debuted in
the Breakout tournament if I'm not mistaken, but you shortly
thereafter he was kind of just toiling around for a
little bit. He's been he's been solidly booked up for
the past handful of months. Tonight he was booked really strong.

Speaker 9 (57:44):
You know.

Speaker 7 (57:44):
He he endured a beat down from you know, the
members of Legato Dale Fantasma, you know, and uh, you know,
multiple multiple kickouts.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
He just I like the way that he was booked. No,
he didn't win, but.

Speaker 7 (57:59):
He was booked, he was booked to be really strong,
where I would hope that he would you know, continue
in that uh in that direction he did. That's the
direction I want to see him continue to move in.
So big thumbs up for me all around here, but
uh yeah, I agree. I think the I think the
Cruiserweight title is uh is is definitely the best booked

(58:21):
at least in n XT eight. I got to think
about the rest of WWE, the twenty four to seventh title,
that that is booked amazingly. Uh, but UH, I have
to think about it a bit more. But the Cruiserweight
title is UH is certainly in my opinion right now,
I think it's the best booked in UH. In NXT
I love what they're doing with uh Fantasma And I

(58:43):
also can never remember Joaquin Wilde every single time. I'm like, Okay,
Mendoza and the other guy, so it's not just.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
You, Kelly.

Speaker 6 (58:53):
Well, all right, I guess I guess that's a good thing.

Speaker 5 (58:56):
Drell.

Speaker 6 (58:56):
Was there anything else on this week?

Speaker 9 (59:00):
Can last of.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
The full pack.

Speaker 9 (59:02):
I'm gonna go to the main event. I like what
I've seen in the main event. I liked the promo
before with Dakota Kat and Roquel. I liked how they
did and they featured Raquel in that promo. I see
that they're doing the diesel that the Shawn Diesel moves.
I guess it might be Roquel who ens eo Shari's

(59:24):
rain or something like that, or even if not, he
could be the next challenger. And then until we get
whatever settled between Mercedes and Real Riflely. I like that
Mercedes came out there and she was semis the cause
of that loss and the loss of Real Rifly the
continuation of their match. I said, this main event was

(59:48):
our main event us Bill Blocks that we're gonna see
keep going getting built on for the next few months
until whenever they have another takeover or they set up
for another big show. Because you built you continue to
royal rivalry with Dakota Kat and Raquia and Eosharat, which
probably now going to switch to Raquia versus EO. And
you also continue the robbery between Real Risky and Mercedes Martinez,

(01:00:13):
which I got Mercedes coming out the winner when once
they finally have a match, because I see her as
being the one that in EO's run. But I liked
everything they did tonight. How did you guys like that
main movie.

Speaker 4 (01:00:31):
On a show where just about anything could have been
in the main event slot. I found this aid interesting choice,
not a bad choice, but just an interesting one. It
could have been a lot of them. And I think
you with anything that had been put in the main
event slot, you say, well, it could have been something else.

Speaker 12 (01:00:50):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:00:51):
This was interesting in that EO.

Speaker 4 (01:00:52):
Sharaia was kind of the also ran in this uh
in this match. As as hot as she is, she
just kind of wasn't after thought in terms of the storytelling.

Speaker 6 (01:01:02):
Here, Whereas we have Ria Ripley.

Speaker 4 (01:01:04):
Who's not the champion anymore, but she is in two
separate feuds, one with Roquel Gonzalez and one with Mercedes Martinez,
and you can see her winning or losing both of those.
Rhea has been really I don't want to go as
far as to say define down, but she's been. She's
been humanized from a near cyborg like presentation. She's taken

(01:01:28):
two pinfalls in a row now, one to Dakota and
one to Roquel Gonzalez, and yes, in both cases the
other one helped and something and there was outside interference
and everything like that, but she's been real humanized. I
think that Rhea probably does come out on top here,
and I wouldn't be surprised. They can go a lot

(01:01:49):
of ways, which is absolutely wonderful. I love that that's
the way the.

Speaker 6 (01:01:53):
Women's division is right now. But I think we're going
to get Ria back on top.

Speaker 4 (01:02:00):
After a while of thinking that Rio was probably not
long for NXT anymore. This went ten minutes and eight seconds.
Rock Hel Gonzalez gets the pin on Rhea Ripley after
Mercedes Martinez in street clothes comes out and interferes.

Speaker 6 (01:02:15):
This match went.

Speaker 4 (01:02:16):
Fifty seconds and fifty Sorry, this show was fifty minutes
and fifty three seconds of wrestling that is right on
with the norm.

Speaker 13 (01:02:28):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell, host of the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Each week he'll hear the latest news and analysis from
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with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling
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(01:02:50):
all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at
PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:03:02):
Yeah, I'm gonna read Kevin Katani's email here because I
don't know kind of it kind of has something to
do with this, So salutation stance and welcome back Kelly. Well,
thanks buddy. Wow, what a week. I feel like a
lot happened in tonight's episode. Some solid storytelling, some good action,
and a new title twist. I personally think this could

(01:03:23):
be Balad's chance to reclaim the Golden I'll be interested
to hear your predictions for Super Tuesday. Two things stuck
out to me today, one by its presence and one
by its absence. First, what do you make of Austin
Theory's return? I thought he was away due to speaking out.
Why would they bring him back to NXT and not
back with Rollins?

Speaker 6 (01:03:38):
Second?

Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
Are we ever going to see a Ladies NXT Tag
team challenge for the tag titles? Could this be a
way to get cold on Dakota and Roquelle while they
let EO's title run grow. Thanks, as always for your thoughts.
Office hours are now over. The Professor Kevin P. Katani, PhD.
I have said before that I think Dakota and Rocket

(01:04:00):
are perfect candidates for the women's tag Championships. I think
that they should win them. But I am literally Dakoda
Kai's biggest fan, so of course I think that. But yes,
I think that that is a perfect use of this
act if it is not the time for either one

(01:04:22):
to be champion, and it does seem that is not
the time to be champion for either of them. I
could see you were cal maybe getting there, but I
think that she's got to have some real good singles
matches under her belt before that is to happen, because
that championship carries way too much weight as really having

(01:04:43):
been treated well for the entirety of its run. It
would be a shame for anything to mar that because
it is a championship that has a great, great lineage.

Speaker 6 (01:04:55):
Tom on the main event.

Speaker 8 (01:04:57):
Did you say Cyborg, because that's how I've been describing
Ripley's new look.

Speaker 4 (01:05:02):
I didn't. That actually didn't occur to me. I totally
forgot that.

Speaker 8 (01:05:07):
But I remember you saying now that I'm for it.
It's it's uh, it's dramatic, but I'm for it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:14):
This.

Speaker 8 (01:05:15):
No matter where it ended up on the card, it
would have been the main event. In my heart, I
have just for so long been looking forward to seeing
Rhea and raina clash on TV.

Speaker 5 (01:05:26):
And this was so smartly done because not only were.

Speaker 8 (01:05:29):
They clawing tooth and nail to get at one another,
when they did get at one another, it was awesome
and oh my goodness, they just know how to work
with one another, and that cell for the one armed
power bomb at the end was incredible, and most importantly
because of the framing of the this the idea, the

(01:05:52):
main point of the segment. I think the main draw
of the segment.

Speaker 5 (01:05:54):
And maybe this is just just me is is Rhea
and Raina or Raquel getting at one another.

Speaker 8 (01:06:01):
And I even loved down the little touches where when
it was when it was Dakota in the ring, Rhea
would make sure to just like go over and pop
pop Riquel a good one real quick, just really really.

Speaker 5 (01:06:13):
Nice all around.

Speaker 8 (01:06:14):
But and I knew I was just gonna like stumble
through gushing over this because I loved it so much.
But even though that was the main draw of the segment,
I feel like overall it was a snapshot of what
the women's the women's title scene looks like right now.
So uh yeah, I mean, I'll be completely honest, I'm

(01:06:35):
not even ashamed. I knew that I was just gonna
stumble through gushing over this, so I forget where I
was even going. It's I just I just loved this,
And uh yeah, yet again, it feels like.

Speaker 5 (01:06:44):
We're in a situation where.

Speaker 8 (01:06:48):
Where because the women usually only get one match on Takeover,
I'm like, all right, well, are we just heading towards another.

Speaker 5 (01:06:56):
Multi woman match that we that we never end up getting?
And that's, uh, that's always the situation I end up
being in. But I think I'm.

Speaker 8 (01:07:03):
Along for the ride with Rhea sort of being kept away.
We know that she's even though he is the champion,
we know that the division centers around Rhea, but she's
got other business to attend to. So yeah, I don't know,
I just I just I just freaking loved this.

Speaker 5 (01:07:21):
Catany's email.

Speaker 8 (01:07:23):
I mean, yeah, sure, they they would be great women's
tag champs, but it just does not feel like now
is the time for it. With everything that's going on
with Sasha and Bailey and now they're doing this freaking
bizarre thing that I'm just gonna have to force myself
not to go off on with Shana and Naya.

Speaker 4 (01:07:39):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (01:07:39):
And I'm currently expecting Shana and Naya to win those
belts on Sunday and and that I guess that's gonna
be a thing. I'm forcing myself not to go down
that down that rabbit hole.

Speaker 5 (01:07:53):
Although oh boy, I could Austin theory.

Speaker 8 (01:07:56):
Yeah, I get I guess they probably figured that with
everything that's going on with the Rollins versus Mysterio family
feud that they didn't want to I don't know for
whatever reason, they just didn't want to put Austin theory
back into that. Maybe they didn't didn't feel like some
of the pieces fit. But it's just another situation where,

(01:08:18):
to be completely honest, theories thing, theories, whole thing came
up in the flurry of hashtag speaking out.

Speaker 5 (01:08:25):
I don't even remember what.

Speaker 8 (01:08:26):
He was accused of, but it's just another situation where
WWE is not being transparent about this stuff, and it's
just it's just idiotic.

Speaker 5 (01:08:35):
I know, like I haven't heard anyone say this.

Speaker 8 (01:08:39):
I'm just speculating that, like maybe there are some legal
things they can't talk about, and maybe they're also doing
the same thing that they did when they didn't want
to acknowledge China, and they're saying, oh, well, we're a
family company, we can't talk about this kind of stuff.
Let's just sweep in under the rug. But the thing
is so many people are aware of this kind of thing.

Speaker 5 (01:08:56):
That they I feel like they need to.

Speaker 8 (01:08:58):
Be much more transparent, even if it comes down to
saying instead of implying, you know that they've had some
sort of internal investigation and they are satisfied with the results,
while still taking pregnant pauses and saying um a lot
and not making it sound like the it's something that
we can really be happy with. It's just the corporate
decision that they're happy with it, saying that that they

(01:09:19):
just got police involved and the police were satisfied.

Speaker 5 (01:09:21):
I don't know.

Speaker 8 (01:09:24):
Again, I don't want to go down too far, too
much farther than I already have, because I don't even
remember what he was accused of. But it's like, just
don't put the guy back on TV until you make
some kind of public statement saying that you know something
that's actually sufficient in getting us to be like, oh okay, cool,
let's get Austin theory back on our TVs then, or
or oh.

Speaker 5 (01:09:44):
Okay, not cool, fire the guy. I don't know.

Speaker 8 (01:09:47):
It's just it's just yet another situation where yeah, the
person is talented, but they're throwing them back on TV
before before issues have been resolved in a way that
we can feel okay about them as viewers.

Speaker 4 (01:09:58):
These companies seem like they set up their fall guys.
This particular company, their fall guys were Gentleman Jack, Lguero,
and Travis Banks, all on n X t UK, all
largely not known by the average US audience. Well, gentleman Jack,
maybe a little. But but it seems like they set

(01:10:19):
up their fall guys and that was that was enough
and enough for them to say they did something, and
if they wanted somebody to be above the law, then
they were. And I guess we're not supposed to ask
the question like triple IH asks like it just acts
like if if we don't want the question asks, then
why why are you asking it? And and with a

(01:10:44):
velveteen dream situation, we we don't know a lot about
what happened. And now it seems like he's leaving TV
again right after he was in a fairly high profile
so and they're doing the same thing and a ring of
honor with Lardy Skirl, who had the power of the
book and everything. He's one of the guys in charge

(01:11:05):
there now. And he went away and then he came back,
and nothing's ever been said because it seems like Skirl
is too far up the card for there to be
much much ado about whatever's going on. But as you've said,

(01:11:26):
it's hard to even remember the specifics of all these
because unfortunately, we've heard a lot of things about a
lot of workers who did a lot of bad things,
and as a result, I don't want to go too
deep into it and to make a lot of idle speculation,
because that's a really dangerous thing to do.

Speaker 8 (01:11:44):
Yeah, and I do remember as we were thinking about that,
what I was going to say about what I was
also going to gush about regarding our main event tonight,
is that the other smart thing about it is that
due to the framing of it being a tag match,
that was, yes, the draw was Rando versus Ria, but
it was overall a snapshot of where.

Speaker 5 (01:12:03):
The title picture is right now.

Speaker 8 (01:12:05):
The added layer of intelligent booking on that is that now,
not only did I get my taste of Rando versus
Ria that I've been looking forward to so much, but
I didn't get it full on, and it just it's
wet my appetite that much more for a singles match
between the two. So just yeah, super thumbs up all
around for this one.

Speaker 4 (01:12:26):
Yeah, good stuff and good stuff all night.

Speaker 6 (01:12:29):
I do see. We have a call from two forty.

Speaker 4 (01:12:31):
I'm going to go to you two forty somewhere in
Boston or.

Speaker 6 (01:12:35):
Some such and I'll do that after I throw to
Nate on this particular topic.

Speaker 7 (01:12:40):
Nate, all right, so I was actually just doing something
for work, so tell.

Speaker 3 (01:12:46):
Me what the topic is.

Speaker 11 (01:12:48):
I got.

Speaker 7 (01:12:49):
I got an email from from work. I had to
jump on something and put out a fire, so I
was kind of half paying attention.

Speaker 3 (01:12:57):
Cool, So it was.

Speaker 6 (01:13:01):
You know that only happens to you, you and your fires.

Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
I tell you about it.

Speaker 7 (01:13:06):
Yeah, being an it guy on on call.

Speaker 4 (01:13:10):
We're we're talking the main event, the women. And there
was an email about that that also brought up the subject. Yes, yes, the.

Speaker 7 (01:13:20):
Catanic cool, Yes, all right, I was paying attention sort of.
It all got into my brain. I just couldn't remember
what part of my brain, all right. So Kevin's email.
First off, I want to say thank you to Kevin.
Kevin actually joined me on my podcast this past week,
the Dcast. Check it out, look at my Twitter if

(01:13:40):
you want and check it out. It's actually pretty cool conversation.
Thank you Kevin. However, uh so talking about Austin theory. Yeah,
so you know, you guys, you guys started you know,
going in a bit about the allegations.

Speaker 3 (01:13:53):
Things.

Speaker 7 (01:13:53):
I don't want to speculate too much myself. But you know,
I was actually really surprised to see him on NXC tonight,
not you know, if he was going to be coming back,
not with rollins like uh, you know, like Kevin said
his email here, I I don't know, like like again,
like Tom said, they're they're not being very transparent with
a lot of these things. So it's it's kind of

(01:14:17):
a a mixed feeling for me, you know. I they
say he's you know, or if they put him back
on TV, like I would assume he's in the clear.

Speaker 3 (01:14:26):
But I don't know.

Speaker 7 (01:14:29):
That's about as That's all I'm really say about that.
I I I hope the allegations aren't true because I
feel like he has a he has a bright future
ahead of him. But obviously, you know, we'll we'll, we'll
see what happens.

Speaker 3 (01:14:43):
So the Yeah, the women's match.

Speaker 7 (01:14:47):
I loved this match, Absolutely loved this match. So the Again,
when on the vip VP after show for Takeover the
other day, I started talking to myself into a fatal
four way between Rayna Gonzalez, Mercedes Martinez, Eosherai, Andrea Ripley, going,
you know, going into the next major match, for the title,

(01:15:09):
not maybe not necessarily the next match for the title,
but you know, the next major, major match for the title.

Speaker 3 (01:15:16):
The reason being.

Speaker 7 (01:15:17):
Is just a all of them, all of those women
have kind of been, you know, loosely affiliated, and then
that was kind of even reaffirmed tonight here.

Speaker 3 (01:15:27):
But real Ripley, Mercedes.

Speaker 7 (01:15:30):
And Raina, they all have a very similar style, They're
very similar character in a in a way. They all
obviously have their own unique qualities about them, but you know,
they're they're that big, hulking, bad ass, awesome woman that
you know, you.

Speaker 3 (01:15:45):
Know is gonna kick your ass.

Speaker 7 (01:15:48):
So taking those through you and and then Eosherai and
putting them in a fatal four way really intrigues me.
I feel like that could be, like you have ree
powerhouses one high flyer. I feel like that could be
a lot of fun. But uh, you know, I don't
obviously know where that I don't really know where they're

(01:16:10):
going right now.

Speaker 3 (01:16:11):
There's a lot of different ways they could go.

Speaker 7 (01:16:13):
I I like that idea, but I think really any
combination of these or you know, Amtakota Kai obviously, you know,
any combination of them, you know, in the main event, Uh,
Women's title scene really seems to make sense for me.
But yeah, overall, this this match was, this is my
match of the night. I you guys are talking about

(01:16:36):
this too, Real Rea getting kind of defined down a
little bit, So I was. I have been on record
as saying Rhea was show. She was, she was like
my favorite female wrestler and NXT you know, in the
build up to WrestleMania, and then she lost to Charlotte,
and she hasn't felt the same since, you know, we
we talked. You know, I was not a fan of

(01:16:58):
the whole Charlotte Rea match period, you know, or the
idea of it. I was a fan of the match
and I and I I agree. I kind of like
the angle, and I liked Charlotte and NXT and all that.
But my biggest, my biggest thing going into that match
of WrestleMania was I feel like if she loses, if
Ria Ripley loses, she's going to get defined down. And

(01:17:18):
then I feel like that's exactly what happened. She has
not felt like the same Real Ripley to me, uh,
since she's been back, and it's such a shame because
I like this new you know, this kind of new
updated look she has. She's clearly put on some more
muscle mass. She looks fantastic, you know, but I don't.
She's not ash, she's she doesn't feel like you know

(01:17:40):
you said, you said Cyborg. I like that the mistique
is dead, the mystique is dead. So uh, you know,
completely agree with you guys there, So yeah, I guess uh.
In the interest of time and the the caller on
hold will uh, we'll move on.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
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AEW Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've
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(01:18:19):
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Speaker 4 (01:18:37):
All right, and I got a lot to go on there,
but because we did have a caller from two to
four to oh, I'm going to go to two four
to roh and and ask you who you are and
where you're calling from.

Speaker 2 (01:18:49):
Good Eve and gentlemen, it's see you.

Speaker 5 (01:18:51):
From Landa, Maryland.

Speaker 6 (01:18:53):
How are you doing, Steve?

Speaker 9 (01:18:55):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
Good welcome back, Kelly glad your situation as a result
to the point where you're able to be back on
the show.

Speaker 4 (01:19:02):
It's not only resolved that is completely gone. Without going
into specifics, it was a very difficult situation that has
worked itself out in the best and most unlikely way possible.
But I thank you and I appreciate you welcoming me back.
What'd you think of tonight's Shay?

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
All right? Well, I had several points that I was
thinking about bringing up, but most of them have been covered.
I'm going to cycle back to the cruiserweights and we've
talked about how you've talked about how well booked the
whole title and the whole program has been. But doesn't
that at some point have to get this title match

(01:19:45):
on a takeover, because if it's if it's a truly
an NXT title. It's got to be on a takeover
at some point.

Speaker 4 (01:19:52):
No, I actually totally agree with you, and that has
been kind of the elephant elephant in the room for
that champion ship for a while. I understand that putting
the Cruiserweight Championship on pay.

Speaker 6 (01:20:05):
Per views is just not something they do.

Speaker 4 (01:20:08):
When it was before it was an NXT championship, first
unofficially and then more or less officially, it always was
pretty much a pre show championship, and.

Speaker 6 (01:20:23):
I think that can be okay, just because the pre.

Speaker 4 (01:20:25):
Shows tend to be so long and they actually get
I think we all agree that if the Cruiserweights were
on the main show, they'd get six minutes, and because
they're on the pre show, they're getting more like twelve
or fifteen. I know that Neville and oh Man and
Aries had like a they had like a sixteen or
seventeen minute match on WrestleMania because they were on the

(01:20:47):
pre show.

Speaker 6 (01:20:48):
But yes, I believe that this has earned a spot.

Speaker 7 (01:20:50):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:20:51):
The problem is we've got five championships on NXT now
after a very long time of just having three, and
so it's tougher to find a spot, especially when you
want to do something like Cole McAfee, and there's always
some championship or some non championship match you want to do,

(01:21:12):
some grudge match you want to do. Escobar, I believe
has elevated the championship two levels where I absolutely think
that it should be on pay per view. And I'm
with you because it's it deserves that stage to be

(01:21:37):
where a lot of lapsed fans are going to be
looking at it, because I think a lot of people
would be surprised to learn just how good of a
place the cruiseweight Championship.

Speaker 5 (01:21:46):
Is in tom So I'm harping on this ballor thing tonight.

Speaker 8 (01:21:50):
They just barfed Balor versus thatcher Onto takeover at in
your house. They just barfed Balor versus priest Onto Takeover.

Speaker 5 (01:21:59):
So absolutely I would.

Speaker 8 (01:22:00):
Rather have had Cruiserweight matches on those takeovers. The Cruiserweight Tournament,
the round robin tournament finals could have been on in
your house. This match could have been on Triple X. However,
I do.

Speaker 5 (01:22:14):
Find value in having a title.

Speaker 8 (01:22:17):
That you can not that it has to be kept
off of Takeover exclusively, but I do find value in
a title that you can rely on to have regular
television defenses of especially when it is booked well, because
if it wasn't booked well, then it would be like
the United States Championship and nobody would give a damn,

(01:22:39):
you know, with something like this, we do care, So
I think something like swar versus Phantasma, even.

Speaker 5 (01:22:45):
Though again they only advertised it a day out, so.

Speaker 8 (01:22:47):
I'm not sure how effective it really was in drawing people.
Hopefully it was effective in holding people because it was
a really good match that went through two commercial breaks.

Speaker 5 (01:22:57):
But yeah, I do see the value in keeping it
on TV at least.

Speaker 4 (01:23:03):
All right, Steve, with that, I'm gonna throw back to
you and see if there's anything else, just because Nate
is having an issue with dead headphones and we'll have
to rejoin us in a moment.

Speaker 6 (01:23:15):
Steve, was there anything else?

Speaker 9 (01:23:18):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:23:18):
Yeah, But regardless of where they put these title matches,
are we supposed to have totally forgotten the fact that
there's an Irish gentleman carrying a cruiserweight championship and that
at some point isn't that gonna have to be addressed?

Speaker 4 (01:23:34):
So it seems like they were addressing that at first.
Jordan Devlin a wonderful wrestler and an even better heel.
He does some stuff. You know, I should be really,
really sick of top rope Spanish flies, but his is
so pretty that I'm not.

Speaker 6 (01:23:56):
I really like Devlin.

Speaker 4 (01:23:57):
I like the work he does, and and I look
forward to seeing him back if that's in the cards. However,
Devlin was one of the names that was brought up
during speaking out and don't know exactly to what level
his issues go, but but that was the reason why

(01:24:20):
they went from why they went from calling it the
interim Cruiserweight Championship to just the Cruiserweight Championship, because I
think that they might consider that situation to be kind
of in flux. Now they can go back to calling
it interim anytime they want to, and they can bring

(01:24:44):
that back whenever they're done investigating Jordan Devlin, if that
is what they decide to do. So yes, I hope
that something there is in the cards. It's weird right
now because you've got Devlin, who's a great heel, and
you got Escobar who's a great heel. So ideally you'd
want a babyface to be in that position for when

(01:25:07):
Devlin comes back. But how how do you take that
championship off of Escobar if the only reason can be
to set up a face versus heel thing with Devlin,
and if you were going to do that, I would
suggest just having the face win and then lose the
championship back to Escobar, because I don't want an end

(01:25:30):
to whatever that reign is. Although Escobar could pretty easily
make the transition to North American Championship contender. Tom, I
will throw to you. We did get we did get
Nate back, but I'm just going to make sure he
knows what we were talking about at the moment.

Speaker 8 (01:25:48):
Yeah, and Devlin's things stood out to me enough that
I do actually remember what he was accused of, and
I'm not going to go into it, but it my
my guess is that they have again lack of transparency
without them actually saying anything about it. But my guess
is that they have reached satisfaction on their end regarding

(01:26:10):
whatever internal investigation they did, because Steve, I think it
was actually you who tweeted us about that a little
while ago, and now I've since forgotten the date that
I found and I'm sure you were probably be working
off with the same report. But I saw a report
that they had recently re upped the copyright.

Speaker 5 (01:26:28):
On some k FAB names, and one of them.

Speaker 8 (01:26:31):
Was Jordan Devlin, And why would they have done that
if they weren't confident that confident they were going to
bring them back at some point. But I think this
has gone on long enough and Escobar is such a
good champion that they just haven't missed a single note
with except for his damn name that I'm not even
all that worried about it. I think that they could

(01:26:53):
even bring Devlin back as part as a part of
NXTUK and not mention it, and just whenever he feels
like it, or whenever travel opens back up, or whenever
a baby face is holding the title again.

Speaker 5 (01:27:06):
Then he can be like, oh, hey, by the way,
I have a match waiting for me to try to
win that back. But I'm not viewing it as a
huge deal. Maybe just a little surprise appearance at.

Speaker 8 (01:27:16):
One point, but I don't even expect him to win
it back at this point.

Speaker 4 (01:27:20):
Yeah, at this point, I'm cool with him continuing to
be on UK, but he can use that as part
of his heel act in UK about still being the
Sun Crowned Champion and still use that over there even
though he's not over here and not in that storyline,
and then when it's convenient, if it becomes convenient, he
can do it.

Speaker 6 (01:27:38):
But in the.

Speaker 4 (01:27:39):
Meantime he'll be a major part of getting nxt UK
back up off the ground. Nate, we're talking about Jordan
Devlin and how he is or is not the uncrowned
Cruiserweight Champion, and how they're not talking about.

Speaker 6 (01:27:53):
That right now.

Speaker 7 (01:27:56):
All right, Yeah, so I am back with trap of
your audio quality. Skype wouldn't let me change my mic,
so I had to call into the show. But yeah,
so Jordan Devlin, I I agree, I don't think he's
winning the title back period.

Speaker 11 (01:28:12):
I I would have, like, going.

Speaker 7 (01:28:15):
Into this whole Cruiserweight your cruiseweight tournament and everything, I
would have said the complete opposite. I would have thought
he would have probably won the title back. He kind
of seemed to be getting a bit of a push
for it. But at this point with Escobar and everything
he's doing, and as we keep saying, I feel like,
you know, the Cruiserweight title is is like the best
book in an XC right now. So yeah, I I

(01:28:39):
just I don't see it happening. I see him probably
coming up, you know, coming back and uh trying to you.

Speaker 11 (01:28:47):
Know, Lake laying in the title he's.

Speaker 7 (01:28:48):
A real champion and all that, and probably having a
match with Escobar and then losing. But you know, or
if you know, I can definitely see that happening, or
I can just see him showing up on the next
to UK and you know, pretending he's like the you know,
the the champion almost kind of similar to like any
And I'm not really necessarily completely update on aw Dynamite.

(01:29:10):
I think I get a couple of weeks still to watch,
but I know, uh, you're Brian Cage. He was you know,
he was carrying around the.

Speaker 11 (01:29:15):
Ft FTW championship, you know, so it kind.

Speaker 7 (01:29:18):
Of I was kind of thinking, you know, maybe something
like that, carrying around, like carrying around the cruiserweight title
over there, but not that the company not actually recognizing
him as the champion, and then maybe eventually they you know,
involve a U And I don't even want to give
the idea of adding another title, but I mean they
could even you know, evolve it into an n X

(01:29:40):
t UK cruiserweight title if they really wanted to. I
couldn't see really a point doing that, but it's it's
an idea, but yeah, I I don't really think uh,
I don't really think he's even in the conversation right now.
I think, you know, they gotta they're gonna have to
tie up.

Speaker 11 (01:29:55):
That loose end.

Speaker 3 (01:29:55):
But then I think that's it.

Speaker 7 (01:29:57):
I think they just tie up the loose end and
continue out with Escobark.

Speaker 4 (01:30:01):
I'm not against another NXT UK singles men's title, but
I would not prefer it to be weight class specific.
I think that they've got too much of a disparity
in sizes there. You could make it work, but if
you're only going to have one more, I would have

(01:30:21):
it be your Classic Intercontinentals are US type championship, and
then maybe maybe if you grow the brand to a
level where it can do that, then do it. But
there are a lot of championships out there, all right,
there's only a handful of segments we haven't done. But Steve,
was there anything else you wanted to hit us with?

Speaker 2 (01:30:42):
Okay, if you don't mind a couple of rapid fire,
non NXT related things.

Speaker 5 (01:30:48):
You touched on one of them, Kelly.

Speaker 2 (01:30:49):
About the just the erosion of talent leading the NWA,
and I thought stud tonight, Stuve Bennett's Night was another
one that sang, what hype of show, what they're going
to have if they ever did come back.

Speaker 4 (01:31:05):
Would be interesting. I'll tell you what. The only real
feud that they had going on, they had two feuds
at the end of their time that had really not
been paid off. One was between like the bottom two
guys in all of the company, Royce Isaac's and sal Ronaro.
They have an ongoing feud over a girl. And then

(01:31:27):
there's I mean, Nicol this has a feud with Marty Skull,
but he's not in the same company so it didn't
get a lot of TV time. And then there's a
feud going on with Molina and thunder Rosa, who as
of right now are both there as well.

Speaker 6 (01:31:42):
There would have to be a real hard reset at
this point.

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
Yeah, and thunder Rosa showed up on a EW Saturday
Night with the title bil right.

Speaker 4 (01:31:52):
So at least they think that at least there's enough
value in the title itself even if the show doesn't
start up. Billy Corgan keeps saying, don't worry, we're coming back,
But of course he's saying that because there's money involved
in him continuing to say that I hope they try
to make the best of the situation, if nothing else,

(01:32:14):
because I need to see Dick Zicki Dice. I love
that guy, and I love his act, and he's a wonderful,
wonderful human being and you should follow him on and
on Twitter and on Twitch and everything, because he's a
He's a great, great dude in addition to being a
great heal So, so yeah, I would love to see
some more Zicki Dice.

Speaker 6 (01:32:36):
Yep.

Speaker 12 (01:32:42):
Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn
some wrestling history, don't miss the Nineties Past cast every
Friday on the PW Torch Daly Cast Feed. Alex and
Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
taking you through the Torch issue from that very weak
follow news from the WWF and WCW, and all the

(01:33:03):
happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties
Pass cast every Friday for the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed.

Speaker 11 (01:33:22):
Okay, just the the second one.

Speaker 2 (01:33:24):
I still don't know how New Japan doesn't have a
streaming app.

Speaker 4 (01:33:31):
They do njpwworld dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:33:35):
No, they have the website, but I mean they don't
have an app or like your Rogue TV or you're smart.

Speaker 4 (01:33:41):
So what they have is this weird app that is
a castable app, but you can only use it on
certain TVs and a lot of them don't have it,
so you can only get gassed. Yeah, I happen to
have the right kind of TV where I can actually
use it, and so I kind.

Speaker 6 (01:34:02):
Of forget about this. But it's really weird that.

Speaker 4 (01:34:05):
They wouldn't be better integrated based on how popular they've become.

Speaker 2 (01:34:09):
It is bizarre, okay, And the last one's for Tom
and get ready to do this one. The question is this,
Have you ever gone over to a French house eat
and the food just ain't no good? I mean, the
macaronisget that these are must and the chicken taste like wood.

Speaker 5 (01:34:25):
Oh my good.

Speaker 3 (01:34:27):
No.

Speaker 6 (01:34:27):
I don't know all the words, but I know Tom does.

Speaker 8 (01:34:29):
Yes, And that's the best verse of the whole song.
I wish I can prepare because it's it's been a
few years since I've done karaoke and I usually have
to brush up on it, but I will say that
that is the very best verse of that song. When
the last time I did it at karaoke.

Speaker 5 (01:34:47):
They had they didn't have.

Speaker 8 (01:34:49):
The whole, like fourteen minute long version of it. They
had just an eight minute long version, and.

Speaker 5 (01:34:53):
It threw me off.

Speaker 8 (01:34:55):
So I just started going off prompter and picking my
favorite verses, and I made absolutely sure to get that
one in there. And then I got off when I
was talking about, uh, the lowest lane and the super Well,
it's a family show, so I won't say the rest.

Speaker 4 (01:35:09):
But you can't say that word. You can't say that word,
but you.

Speaker 5 (01:35:14):
Very much appreciate it. Sorry to let you down, be Uh.

Speaker 8 (01:35:17):
I've had that in my Twitter bio forever and it
used to be accurate.

Speaker 5 (01:35:20):
But I'm rusty now. But you put the right verse,
and I I am very happy to hear from you
two weeks in a row, Steve.

Speaker 2 (01:35:27):
I was I was going to ask if you knew
the full fourth, that you knew the full fourteen and
a half minute version and not just the four minute
radio verson.

Speaker 5 (01:35:36):
Yeah, yep, I did it one, Okay.

Speaker 8 (01:35:38):
I will say that, even when I had it memorized,
it gets tough toward the end when they start they
start repeating stuff, and there there are a couple of lines,
there are a couple uh yeah, there are a couple
of lines toward the end where I'm like, I'm not
even sure what they're saying. I'm just sort of mimicking
the sounds at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:35:55):
Okay, all right, I'm Ever since I read your kudo,
but ever since I dto Twitter bio, I figured at
some point I would throw that in there.

Speaker 8 (01:36:03):
Yep, yep, I have Oh gosh, do I want to
save this on the podcast?

Speaker 5 (01:36:08):
I have.

Speaker 8 (01:36:08):
I have video of the time of the last time
that I did it where I got like the eight
minute version and it kind of threw me off, so
I mixed up the verses.

Speaker 5 (01:36:15):
But so that evidence exists.

Speaker 8 (01:36:18):
But I definitely, at the time that I wrote that
in my Twitter bio and I have yet to delete it,
at the time, it was accurate that I definitely was
able to do all fourteen minutes.

Speaker 5 (01:36:29):
All right, Well very much, Steve, all right, goodness, y'all.

Speaker 4 (01:36:35):
Have thank Steve for the call. Yeah you too, and
for those of you that were hopelessly.

Speaker 6 (01:36:40):
Lost just there.

Speaker 4 (01:36:41):
The song we're talking about is rappers Delight by sugar
Hill Gang, and for Tom to say that's the best
verse is high praise because the song has about four
hundred and seventy two verses. It's it's long, I too
have done it on at karaoke. I did it with
my best friend Greg in college and was stunned when

(01:37:01):
I was reminded how long the song was.

Speaker 8 (01:37:04):
Oh my, so, how can you disaverse? That's about going
over to a friend's house to eat and the food
just ain't no good, so you got to run to
the store for quick relief from a bottle of Kao pectape.
It's just right, I mean, it doesn't. It does not
get better than that.

Speaker 4 (01:37:19):
Yeah, it just a chicken tastes like wood gang, It
tastes like what Okay.

Speaker 6 (01:37:24):
There was one other match on the show.

Speaker 4 (01:37:27):
It was Shatzi Blackhart versus me Aim, two women that
have been mired right in the center of the women's
division for a very long time. Shotzi Blackhart goes over.
In four to twenty nine, first, Robert Stone and Alia
were announced as.

Speaker 6 (01:37:43):
The opponent for me A yim Alia was the opponent.

Speaker 4 (01:37:47):
But Shatzi drove in in her in her little tank
and of course ran over Robert Stone's leg again because
him getting beat up is what he does. This went
for twenty nine and and and Shatzi won Mia seems
like she has has a rub to give right now
because she she was very high profile during this Keith

(01:38:12):
Lee thing. So even with Keith Lee gone, it seems
like there's still a bit of I don't want to
say mistique, that's a strong word for me, aim, but
it seems like she was in a pretty good position
and had something to offer here in the way of
a rub. Shatzi Uh, We've talked about it. She's not
great on the mic. Whatever she's she's she's a lot,

(01:38:32):
but she is a very very good wrestler, and she's
very different, and that is something that that'll always take.
I'll always take a different performer in that division. Don't
know yet if you will reach that championship level, but
I really really look forward to seeing the development of
Shatzi Blackheart and and how she gets to wherever the

(01:38:55):
heck she's going to be going mid show women match Nate.

Speaker 11 (01:39:03):
So Shotsy Blackheart.

Speaker 7 (01:39:05):
She ran over Robert Stone for the third time with
the Tank. If you didn't know Robert Stone, he'll tell
you he already did on Twitter.

Speaker 11 (01:39:14):
I I like this.

Speaker 7 (01:39:17):
I was I was a little I was a little confused,
and maybe I just missed it. But as to why
Shatsi was kind of coming out to fight instead of
Mercedes Martinez, it kind of seemed a little contrived. But
but overall, I mean I certainly liked it. I liked uh,
you know, obviously I liked Robert Stone getting run over
by the tank.

Speaker 1 (01:39:37):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (01:39:38):
I if they did it every week, I don't know
if I'd necessarily get sick of it. Other people might,
but I don't know if I would. Uh, every time.

Speaker 11 (01:39:47):
It happens, I I it just tickles me. It tickles me.
But but yeah, it was Uh. You certainly certainly a
decent match.

Speaker 4 (01:39:57):
Shotsy.

Speaker 7 (01:39:58):
She certainly seems to have some momentum behind her right now.
You like you said, you know, me and Jim, you know,
kind of does seem like she had a bit of
a rub to give coming off the whole Keith Lee thing.
She was kind of in his corner the whole time,
So you know, certainly it certainly kind of rubbed off
tonight on Shazi. I think Shatzi's got a huge upside,

(01:40:20):
you know, I said that since you know, since she debuted,
I've been on you know, I've been on the Shazi train.

Speaker 11 (01:40:26):
Since uh, the way she you know.

Speaker 7 (01:40:28):
The way she wrestles, the whole gimmick here, she's yeah,
she's a little over the top. The whole you know,
welcome to the ball pit thing is a little it's
as a catchphrase, it's a little strange, But so is
Shatzi Blackhart, So in that sense, I guess it also works.
But yeah, you know, big thumbs up for me. I uh,

(01:40:49):
you know, obviously, I like the fact that they kind
of saved Mercedes Martinez for later on in the night
with the you know, the bigger angle.

Speaker 11 (01:40:56):
But you know, even.

Speaker 7 (01:40:57):
Still, uh did this this certainly work worked.

Speaker 9 (01:41:00):
Well for me.

Speaker 6 (01:41:02):
So yeah, I'll go back to Yes, Tom, go ahead
on that match.

Speaker 8 (01:41:08):
Oh my god, they killed Kenny. Yeah, I'm enjoying that
part two. And I think that Nia and Shatzi did
well with the face face dynamic. And I agree with
you Kelly that Nia has been booked well enough, even
though she's not a top person, she's been booked well
enough that the commentary's selling of this as a big

(01:41:30):
win for Shatzi tracked. It did feel like a significant
win for Shatzi, like a signal, like even though the
main event was the snapshot of the current women's title scene.

Speaker 5 (01:41:40):
Shatzi's definitely somebody.

Speaker 8 (01:41:41):
To have your eye on as somebody who's on her
way up, maybe to be a challenger at some point.
And just because I don't think there's too much more
to be said about it, I'm not sure if we're
even planning on focusing on it too much. I will
say that the other thing focusing on the middle of
the card for the women, the Teagan Knox Candice Larray video.

Speaker 5 (01:42:00):
Package, I actually liked, which.

Speaker 8 (01:42:02):
Was weird because they've been selling this feud for a
few weeks now, and it only just last week did
I realize that we were even supposed to realize it
was a thing. I just haven't even noticed it. But
this I think worked after last week when Teagan was like, oh,
we just need to sit down and have wine. This
one where they're yet again going back through their history,

(01:42:23):
I'm kind of enjoying, like the the ex galpal rivalry,
and I kind of hope that I don't expect that
they will, but I kind of hope that they do,
like a Dinner with the Gargando segment where Teagan actually
does go on a wine date with Candace and it
turns into whatever it turns into. But yeah, they got
me invested with this video tonight.

Speaker 4 (01:42:45):
I was indeed planning on talking about it after a
thing or two. I really did dig this as well,
this piece Candace did on Teagan. And I like Candace's
continued use of the past of aggressive heel who doesn't
realize that that she's the heel, because a person like

(01:43:07):
this in.

Speaker 6 (01:43:07):
Reality never realizes that she's the bad guy.

Speaker 4 (01:43:12):
And I liked that she called attention back to her
friendship with Tigan, and in every instance where she talked
about them being friends, she talked about what Teagan could
do for Candace.

Speaker 6 (01:43:26):
That's what this was about. And uh and at the end,
I thought.

Speaker 4 (01:43:30):
That it could have been contrived, But Candace is getting
very good at at just spouting these lines saying that, well,
this is the way I've got to be and and
if Tegan doesn't want to be this way, then then
at least she can stay out of my way.

Speaker 6 (01:43:48):
She's just a very matter of fact about it.

Speaker 4 (01:43:51):
She's just such a such a punishable heel, and and
that's going to serve the entire division very very well.
I think she tops out as a high level gatekeeper still,
but I would not be against that Candace Lay championship

(01:44:12):
run Nate.

Speaker 11 (01:44:15):
Yeah, neither would.

Speaker 7 (01:44:15):
I had noticed, you know, Candace, she's I mean, she
certainly has that potential to be, you know, top of
the card. You even have a you know, a run,
albeit i'd say, probably be a relatively short run with
the belt.

Speaker 11 (01:44:28):
I wouldn't. I wouldn't have a problem with that at all.

Speaker 7 (01:44:30):
I really like what she has been doing since turning heel.
You know, the dinner, the dinner with their Gargano's saying,
I mean, we've talked about it in the past, you know,
was a it was a little controversial, so well, I
would say controversial polarizing, I guess is a better word.

Speaker 5 (01:44:46):
Uh.

Speaker 11 (01:44:46):
Some people seem to really like it.

Speaker 3 (01:44:48):
Other people, you know, kind of didn't.

Speaker 11 (01:44:49):
I was a little hit or miss.

Speaker 7 (01:44:50):
There's a couple of weeks I liked, a couple of
weeks I didn't. But I would not be opposed to
see like, you know, like you said, I wouldn't be
opposed seeing it come back, you know, and have kind
of a sit down with you know, Tigan and Candae.

Speaker 3 (01:45:03):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:45:04):
One of the things that.

Speaker 11 (01:45:05):
That we've talked about quite a bit.

Speaker 7 (01:45:07):
Is you know, Tigan knocks. We just kind of want
to find out who she is a bit more, and
I'm kind of I'm going to be optimistic and and
kind of hope that we we finally get that out
of this, you know, where this is another feud with
a good friend of hers, so you know, kind of

(01:45:28):
similar to the hold Dakota Kai thing, not the few
of the good friend of hers. So maybe we do
get a little bit more out of who she is,
you know, and and you know what she stands for,
you know that, So that that is something I'm looking
I'm looking forward to because you know, as we've said,
you know, Tegan, she's she's you know, I mean, she's
not she's not the best wrestle in the world. She's

(01:45:49):
a decent wrestler, but with the way that they're they're
pushing her, I would like to see a little bit
more character development, and you know, maybe maybe they're and
we're not the only one saying that. I mean, that's
that's something that I've I've been seeing as well on uh,
you know, online and other platforms, so you know, maybe
they're listening and maybe that that you know, the kind

(01:46:10):
of uh you kind of go into that direction, I hope,
so you kind of give her a little bit extra momentum,
especially with a lot of the spots that they're putting
her in. I mean, I think it was what she
should a match on Raw.

Speaker 11 (01:46:24):
I think it was Raw.

Speaker 3 (01:46:24):
It was one of the main event shows.

Speaker 11 (01:46:26):
I think it was Raw.

Speaker 7 (01:46:27):
So you know, they they clearly see something in her.
I think she's definitely got, you know, the potential. But yeah,
there's just that little extra, there's a little sorry, there's
not something actually something missing with her, and uh, I'm hoping,
you know, maybe maybe this is the few that at
least starts to uncover whatever that thing is.

Speaker 1 (01:46:55):
You don't have to wait for the Weight Killer Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Wrong on SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.

(01:47:18):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pewtorch dot com that also applies to WWE payperviews.
I cover those live at pw torch dot com with
a detailed written report with star ratings, and of course
you can find other TV reports from other contributors to
pw torch such as nxt ROH, Impact Wrestling and more.
Check it out pwtorch dot com your first stop for

(01:47:40):
TV and pay per view written reports.

Speaker 4 (01:47:54):
In this gig. I am sometimes lucky enough to be
able to talk to people within WWE, and I know that.

Speaker 6 (01:48:01):
They know that we don't know who Teagan Knox is.

Speaker 4 (01:48:07):
So I'm hopeful that at some point we will learn
because because I know that that's a concern. So so
don't know where this is gonna head. But but I
feel like Candace at this point can carry this in

(01:48:30):
the meantime. And as long as Teagan is having feuds
with these colorful characters who are really good at holding
up their end of the thing, she'll be okay. But
she will not ever ever hit the next level herself,

(01:48:50):
and she'll be stuck where she is unless we learn
more about who she is. All Right, Tim Scott gave
us two emails. I'm going to read him back to back,
even though they are not related to each other. Good evening, gentlemen.
While I don't want to take anything away from the
great athleticism and mike skills shown by Pat mcpee versus
Adam Cole, watching the match actually left me with a
bit of a bad taste in my mouth, only because

(01:49:10):
I felt like the underlying premise that an ex NFL
punter could go toe to toe on two weeks training
with the longest reigning champion in NXT history does a
real disservice to the talent in general by suggesting that
even the most skilled performer on the roster would actually
be tested by some random dude who made his money
playing an entirely different sport. Call me a cynic but
tomorrow phrase from McAfee's ring gear. To me, this type

(01:49:32):
of obvious publicity stunt is ultimately bad for the brand.

Speaker 6 (01:49:36):
Yes, I realized the fact that I had such.

Speaker 4 (01:49:38):
A strong reaction is largely the point, but I can't
help thinking if they had to do a celebrity angle
to get McAfee over it, then they should have used
a wrestler with less upside and name value than Adam
Cole rather than building an entire program around the only
weakness of one of their biggest stars. In the end,
maybe this helps to establish Cole even more, but admittedly
as one of his biggest fans, I just think they
needed to tread carefully. Thank you best, which is Tim

(01:50:00):
s VIP member. I will only say this, Tim, and
I would have totally totally bought what you were saying
a couple of years ago. But I'm almost at this point,
and I guess I'm just getting I don't know if
it's more realistic or more cynical, but I just don't
know if any match of anyone going fifty to fifty

(01:50:23):
is a problem. I just don't know if it's a
problem anymore. They it seemed every match goes fifty to fifty.
Even matches with enhancement talents go fifty to fifty. So
it just seems like it's not a problem for this
to go fifty to fifty. I think that what they

(01:50:44):
gained from it is worth a lot more than whatever
they lost, especially if Cole just goes on to something
else quickly. And it seems like Tim gets this largely
because he said that the fact that he had such
a strong reaction as largely the point, I think they
gained more than they lost.

Speaker 3 (01:51:06):
I just.

Speaker 4 (01:51:09):
Because Cole is so established, I think he's teflon. I
did not feel the same way when Shinsky Nakamura went
to the main roster and he had like an eighteen
minute match with Dolf Ziggler, who at this point was
a jobber. Like, you can defend Ziggler all you want,

(01:51:31):
but he won like nine matches on TV.

Speaker 6 (01:51:35):
All year that year. I looked that up at the time.

Speaker 4 (01:51:39):
So he was a jobber, and so Shinsky in those
new environs had no business having to work that hard
to beat him. He should have flattened him. Having a
good match was not the best thing for him. Tim
Scott also sent us this one. I just had to
say tonight's show was one of the most act, impact,

(01:52:00):
entertaining episodes in recent memory. Great to see NXT step
up and represent with Walt Wall quality content on a
night with no competition. As far as next week, I'd
really love to see Champa win Goldie back and eventually
have Gargano reclaimed the North American title, to see DIY
conquered the entire brand winning both of the major championships.

Speaker 6 (01:52:18):
Can you see that happening, or.

Speaker 4 (01:52:19):
Do you see this iron Man match as a means
to expand the legacy of either Finnvalor or Adam Cole.
Whatever happens, it's gonna be epic. Thanks again much love
Tim s from Virginia Beach. I know we kind of
covered that, but on the two Tim Scott emails, Tom.

Speaker 8 (01:52:37):
Yeah, and you know, nothing more to say on the
Ironman Match after what we said earlier, but I do
love getting other theories about it, so that's cool.

Speaker 9 (01:52:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:52:45):
Regarding the McAfee and Cole thing, of course, I was
very very high on the match, called it my match
of the night.

Speaker 5 (01:52:50):
Stand by that very strongly.

Speaker 8 (01:52:51):
And it does seem like Tim picked up most of
what NXT wanted him to put down, even down to
the for the brand logo on McAfee's gear. I think
that's exactly what you were supposed to get from it,
that you know, he's he's just leaning so much into
this outsider heel shtick, and he gets it so much
that even that logo is it just supposed to make

(01:53:12):
you sick seeing.

Speaker 5 (01:53:13):
That on him.

Speaker 8 (01:53:13):
And I also love the fact that I don't think
this is really the case, but it sort of looked
like he ironed it on himself. So that was a
nice little little touch, if unintentional. But I actually think
that for the work of the match itself, they balanced
it pretty well. There were only a couple points where
Adam Cole was on defense where I was like, all right,

(01:53:35):
maybe I don't believe that as much. And then at
the very end I didn't like the Panama Sunrise finish
because it seemed to be there only because only to
show hardcore fans that McAfee could pull off the very
cooperative side of taking that.

Speaker 5 (01:53:50):
Move, and because the feed for it was just egregious,
like the camera shouldn't have picked that up.

Speaker 8 (01:53:57):
McAfee had to like waddle into position inexplicably, so that
was unfortunate, But the rest of it I was all
on board for. Again, I thought they balanced it very
well with Cole's very confident approach to it. Cole seems
to be approaching it like it was light work, and
then he realized he was in for a little bit.

Speaker 5 (01:54:18):
More of a fight.

Speaker 8 (01:54:18):
There is at least a little bit of a well,
there's a lot of legitimacy to McAfee just being a
natural at various sports and various roles that he gets into.
So even though he has been training for years and
Rip Rogers has been training him, and he has his
own personal wrestling rank that he's been training in.

Speaker 5 (01:54:36):
Yes, for the storyline, we're supposed to believe it's only
two weeks.

Speaker 8 (01:54:38):
But they also in the video package showed us him
specifically practicing certain moves that got pulled out in the
match for his offensive climaxes.

Speaker 5 (01:54:48):
So even if they hadn't shown us.

Speaker 8 (01:54:50):
That, it would have been like, is Pat McAfee really
going to do a platform jump superplex? But when he
did it, it was like, oh yeah, I saw him
specifically practicing that in the hype video, so I bought it,
and I would I would say that this like, yeah, sure,
they want to get over McAfee as somebody that they.

Speaker 5 (01:55:06):
Might try to pull back in later.

Speaker 8 (01:55:09):
Even though he and Triple H's comments on how on
on whether he's gonna continue to pursuing it seemed to
be a little at odds with one another, you know,
based on what Triple H said on the post on
the post show a conference call, and what McAfee has
said on his own podcast. But I feel like this
was way less about getting over McAfee, even though he

(01:55:31):
got over beautifully, I think, but this was way less
about getting over McAfee and way more about giving Coal
the crossover rub. So, like if it were up to me,
and and like Triple H said, Hey, we're bringing in
somebody who has some celebrity status.

Speaker 5 (01:55:46):
Who in NXT do you want to give the rub? Two?

Speaker 8 (01:55:49):
Absolutely Adam Cole. So I think they made the right pick.
And I love seeing that they have that high confidence
level in him to put him with McAfee.

Speaker 4 (01:55:59):
Yeah, Tim Alton, I'll tell you, as a as a
big fan of Adam Cole, I think you should be
more excited about this than, uh than filled with trepidation,
because more.

Speaker 6 (01:56:09):
People know who Adam Cole is now than than did
when this went in.

Speaker 4 (01:56:15):
But I understand that, uh. And it's the fact that
he's a punter.

Speaker 6 (01:56:20):
I get it. He's he's a punter.

Speaker 4 (01:56:23):
It's the it's the least sexy position, I get it.
But that to me adds to the humor of whatever
the hell Pat mccabee is supposed to be speaking of
people whose names aren't anything Vic Joseph, whose name I
just had to look up to make sure I was
getting right, didn't he miss call the Panama Sunrise as
something else on the show he spoke, he said.

Speaker 7 (01:56:46):
Yeah, weird things.

Speaker 6 (01:56:49):
What's that.

Speaker 11 (01:56:52):
He called? He called it a Canadian destroyer?

Speaker 4 (01:56:55):
Oh did he actually maybe? And which is fine. I
wanted to say he he made it like he added
a word to it or something like that. He also
said thatcher thatch Can and I wanted to punch him
in the head. And I know that Corey Graves bullies people,
and uh, and that is what it is. But as

(01:57:16):
soon as he said thatcher thatch Can, I was like, Corey,
do your thing, man, your time to shine. Bully this man,
Vic Joseph. This is where I miss Justin because he
would talk about Vic Joseph and he'd be like, yeah,
he's fine, I guess, but I never wake up and think, man,
I wanted be a big, tall, heaping bowl of Vic Joseph.

(01:57:39):
And so it went on, and it became this thing
where whenever Justin and I did the show together, we
would say, eat it, eat a bowl of Vic Joseph,
and you'll be regular all day.

Speaker 6 (01:57:52):
So I look forward to being very regular.

Speaker 14 (01:58:00):
I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClellan.

Speaker 15 (01:58:02):
We host Wrestling Coast to Coast, where we scour the
wrestling scene to find the best wrestling from the smallest places.

Speaker 14 (01:58:08):
There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling
Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and
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Speaker 15 (01:58:16):
There are plenty of podcasts to voters at w W
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Speaker 14 (01:58:23):
We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
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Speaker 15 (01:58:29):
And justin bemoaning dog poal fins.

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Speaker 4 (01:59:08):
Mu Nate, was there anything on these quick emails?

Speaker 7 (01:59:18):
So yeah, nothing nothing really On the first one, I'll
touch on Pat McAfee and uh and Cole.

Speaker 11 (01:59:24):
I So, I think Pat McAfee.

Speaker 7 (01:59:26):
And Adam Cole was probably the match of the night
for me as well, kind of I rewatch Takeover the other.

Speaker 11 (01:59:33):
Day and that really stood out for me.

Speaker 7 (01:59:37):
Now, typically I I'm always lukewarm about the whole celebrity
in the wrestling space because you know, either they get
treated like a complete baffoon or they get treated you know,
kind of in this sense like that they're a uh,
you know, kind of an indestructible force. And in this instance,

(01:59:57):
I feel like it worked. Yes, you get a suspended
disbelief a little bit because Pat McAfee, you know, he's
not necessarily a trained wrestler, and you.

Speaker 11 (02:00:07):
Know, Keith Babe, he has been training for two weeks.

Speaker 7 (02:00:09):
Although we know we know better, but uh, you know,
he just I don't know it does it seemed to work.
You know, he's he's been involved in w W for a while,
so he's been around. You know, he's he's an athlete,
you know that. You know, like Tom just said, he's
you know, excelled at everything that he's he's done. So
it it uh you know, and really just the way

(02:00:31):
he carried himself in the whole build to it, you know,
he he carried himself like a like a like a wrestler.
So I was I was okay with it. You know,
I was originally in the camp. But who who the
hell cares about Pat mcavie is stupid? You know, why
are you putting them with Adam Cole? You know, very
very similar to the to the uh uh I forget

(02:00:52):
who the emailer was?

Speaker 11 (02:00:52):
I apologize, Uh Tim?

Speaker 3 (02:00:54):
That was Tim?

Speaker 11 (02:00:55):
I think it was Tim.

Speaker 7 (02:00:57):
But you know, so it was kind of like in
that same camp at first, but as the feud started
to progress, I was more on board with it. The
energy levels that Pat Maxie brings to like takeover, like
the pre shows and the pre panels.

Speaker 11 (02:01:11):
And things like that.

Speaker 7 (02:01:12):
It's not everybody's cup of tea. I know that I
personally like it. I think it kind of adds a
little extra to the show. A lot of times those
pre shows can seem very robotic and things, so you know,
I kind of appreciated that little extra annoyingness that that
he brought the table. I liked it, you know, and
I obviously kind of knew it was a bit of

(02:01:33):
a bit of a character, probably himself turned up to eleven,
but I knew it was, you know, it was a character.

Speaker 11 (02:01:38):
He's playing it up. But then the match happened, and.

Speaker 9 (02:01:44):
So on.

Speaker 11 (02:01:45):
The on the v I P after.

Speaker 7 (02:01:46):
Show, Matt house White, who's the nxc all perspective reporter,
you know, he joined myself a rich fan for the
show before you know, before Tom joined us, and he
said that it is a and I completely.

Speaker 11 (02:01:58):
Agree with the statement. I think it was great statement.

Speaker 7 (02:02:01):
It is a testament to how well Pat McAfee actually
did that we started nitpicking him, you know, Tom. Tom
was just talking about the finish and yeah, yeah, the
finish wasn't wasn't spectacular.

Speaker 11 (02:02:12):
But the fact that we're nitpicking.

Speaker 7 (02:02:15):
Him about these these little tiny things is a real
testament to how well he did. We're not saying Pat
Maxey went out there and has a sinker.

Speaker 11 (02:02:23):
Uh. Pat Maxey went out there and had a damn
good match.

Speaker 7 (02:02:26):
And granted he had a good dance partner too, let's
not forget that. But you know, for but it also
takes two to tango.

Speaker 11 (02:02:35):
Uh. And I think, uh, you know, Pat McAfee.

Speaker 7 (02:02:37):
Really did when out He went out there, and he
delivered a lot, and he delivered on a higher level
than I think any of us expected out of him.

Speaker 11 (02:02:46):
It was a real, real.

Speaker 7 (02:02:48):
Surprise as well as a treat because I I I
was looking forward to the match, but I really wasn't
expecting what we got, especially where you know, it's a
street fight a lot of times, you know we've talked
about before, or street fight. The other use, it's a
stipulation used to mask, to mask inabilities, you know, any
wrestlers inabilities to wrestle, you know, whether it be a

(02:03:09):
you know, an injury or the fact that that they're
not an actual trained wrestler or whatever. So that's kind
of what I was expecting here. But you know, yes,
they use that to a point too. But overall, I
liked I liked everything he did, his character work, his promos.
I feel like he pulled off some better promos than
some of the actual talent on any of the rocks,

(02:03:32):
like some of them on any of the rosters SmackDown
Rob n XT. I'm not saying he's better than everybody,
but you know, the certain people that I'm not going
to name names, but there's certain people that I can
think of off the top of my head that uh, you know,
he definitely did better then.

Speaker 11 (02:03:45):
So overall, I think it was a big success.

Speaker 7 (02:03:49):
You know, yes, you're gonna have some wrestling fans that
still feel that way that he shouldn't have come into
the wrestling space and.

Speaker 11 (02:03:54):
And dominated in the way that he did. And again
obviously he.

Speaker 7 (02:03:57):
Didn't didn't win, but still he took it to a
former NXT champion, the longest raigning n XT champion ever.
But I think it was overall a success. He pulled
it off, he did it really well. It kind of
bled over into the mainstream, you know, as Kelly said,
you know Adam Cole. Now more people know the name
Adam Cole than they did before, you know, and and

(02:04:18):
they're talking about it. So I think overall, isn't that positive?
And uh, you know, I know McAfee is not he's
technically finished any contractual dates or whatever, you know, they
they're telling us. Whether that's true or not, who knows,
But I certainly hope he comes back and and uh,
you know, does something else, because I was very pleasantly

(02:04:41):
surprised what we got out of him.

Speaker 4 (02:04:43):
You know, there's a type of fan who is who's
very into other ring and can't deal with anyone from
any world showing up, and they use that to their advantage.
But there's a fan I said this, this should never happen,
and and they say, you can't come from another world
and do this. And I like to affectionately refer to

(02:05:06):
this kind of fan as a total dumbasses, Like it's
just it's it works every time because it literally because of.

Speaker 6 (02:05:15):
Their reaction to them.

Speaker 4 (02:05:18):
And I also think it's funny that people get so
afraid of how bad these matches are going to be,
these these one off celebrity versus star matches, But this
literally never happens. I don't remember the last time that
a celebrity came in for a one off match and
had a stinker. It just doesn't happen because they know

(02:05:41):
what's at stake. They know people are afraid of that,
so they work these These are not matches that are
These are likely not matches that are called in the ring.

Speaker 6 (02:05:51):
It is it's almost it would.

Speaker 4 (02:05:53):
Be preposterous to believe that this is the normal two
people who are well in to the business calling the
match in the ring. This is probably something that's laid
out and they know what they're going to do beforehand.
That's why Steven MML had a good match, That's why
Lawrence Taylor had a good match. That's why Snooky had
a pretty good match. Remember that she did. Yeah, it's

(02:06:22):
not surprising that these people come in and have enough
to have one good match, and they probably in most,
if not all cases, would not have a good career
because they wouldn't be that protected for an entire career.
But it is not believable that almost anyone who is

(02:06:42):
in good physical shape could have one good match. The
trick is to go out there and break dance on
concrete and have good matches six times a week.

Speaker 11 (02:06:53):
So you know, it's funny the two people.

Speaker 7 (02:06:57):
There's two celebrities that I can think of that had
stinkers and.

Speaker 11 (02:07:01):
They're actual fighters, and.

Speaker 7 (02:07:02):
I was Kane Blaskas and Tyson Tyson Cherry Oh Jli.

Speaker 4 (02:07:06):
I didn't even didn't even think about it, you know
what I was. That's why I said WWE because of
Jay Leno and uh and I know they use like
Kevin Green, Karl Malone, and they didn't just use them,
they used them in main events of major pay per
views and they were above matches that they should not
have been above. But uh but whatever they did, they

(02:07:29):
did what they did and now they don't exist.

Speaker 1 (02:07:33):
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(02:07:53):
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Speaker 6 (02:08:14):
So we're going pretty long.

Speaker 4 (02:08:16):
So Jack, we're going to save your fun stuff for
next week. I don't think it'll take all that long.
But I also don't think next week's likely to be
a long show because more than half of next week's
airing is going to be one match, so we won't
have a ton of talking points. I say that now,
but it's usually wrong, but we are going to do this.

(02:08:39):
One last email from our friend JB. We also had
a very brief hype for Damian Priest and Timothy Thatcher.
I thought it was short but effective because it works
for both guys. Once again, it's one of those things
where Thatcher is technically being more of a babyface, but
he's doing it in a jury way, so it works.

(02:09:01):
I also loved that Bronson Reid gave Austin Theory the
hardest slap I have ever seen. I yelled out an
expletive when I saw it because I couldn't believe how
awesome the slap was. Theory looked like he couldn't believe
it either, before he smiled afterwards. JB emails US High Team.
It's JB from Detroit. A few weeks ago, the team

(02:09:23):
had mentioned that AW women's division was terrible and wasn't
getting due time on Dynamite. While I don't disagree with
this sentiment, I have a different spin on why and how.
I'd argue a lot it has to do with luck,
investment and availability. Before AW started, both WW and NXT
and Impact had already hoarded a good deal of some
of the best women's talent in the world, and currently

(02:09:45):
a lot of aw's talent isn't available due to COVID
and injuries. Because of these things, AW made a conscious
decision to invest more in their tag division compared to
their women's division. I don't see this so much as
a bad thing rather than a reality of the situation.
I'd argue the current NXT Tag division is comparable to
the AW Women's division. With that being said, what is

(02:10:06):
the future of NXT's Tag division and what immediate steps
do you think can be taken to strengthen the division
after tonight's results, I know that grizzled young veterans being
available will be of help. As always loved the show. Yeah,
I don't think you're wrong. They haven't presented the women
as anything to get excited about, but a lot of

(02:10:27):
the women aren't anything to be excited about.

Speaker 6 (02:10:30):
So I think that it's Sophie's choice.

Speaker 4 (02:10:33):
I say that every week about something, But I mean
it's tough AW put together a company at a time
shortly after women becoming very important to a company's success
and to varying the pacing and what's going on on
a show and jumping between divisions. So I understand that

(02:10:58):
they had an uphill battle there because the world of
wrestling is still much shorter on women than it is
on men. So it doesn't surprise me that they were
able to find that, especially when the biggest company in
the world. They do some tag team stuff, but they

(02:11:18):
don't treat it as big as a lot of companies
in the past half. If NWA was still around, there
would have been no tag teams for AW to take
because NWA would have had them all because NWA loved
promoting tag teams. They promoted tag teams in the main
event all over the South. The Free Birds versus the

(02:11:42):
Von Erics main evented all the time, and these tag
team matches with no stakes main evented all the time.
So yeah, I guess that's just a roundabout way of
saying you're not wrong Tom.

Speaker 8 (02:11:58):
A lot of these sound like they would be good points,
but then you look at the fact that AW is
giving television time to Zach Ryder and ty Dillachaer and
Marco Stunt and Lucasaurus and I could go on.

Speaker 5 (02:12:14):
So that's what I have to say about that.

Speaker 7 (02:12:18):
Nate all right, and I should be back with better audios.
I let my headset charge for a little bit. Yeah,
I I kind of agree with everything you guys both
just said. I honestly, I really don't have anything to add.
I kind of feel like that's a I feel like
you guys hit everything pretty good.

Speaker 3 (02:12:40):
The future of the NXT.

Speaker 7 (02:12:41):
Tag division we kind of touched on a bit ago,
but you know, I think I think Breeze and Fandango
are going to be going up against the Gato del Phantasma,
who will be wearing the gold before long.

Speaker 4 (02:12:55):
And I think some of that tag team division has
been hurt by by Track and also by the fact that,
uh that Indus Share can't get out of its own
way because it was Sarov who who spoiled the Keith
Lee Championship win. And I don't believe that they've seen

(02:13:16):
TV time since, and now we're not even on that
title reign anymore.

Speaker 3 (02:13:21):
So I think we we're even off TV for a
little bit before that too.

Speaker 4 (02:13:26):
Well they were for a few weeks and after yeah,
and then after that it happened, So so we got
h that is that.

Speaker 6 (02:13:37):
Is our show. I knew we'd go along because, uh,
because they were talking points.

Speaker 4 (02:13:41):
And we got a couple of calls, and uh, it
was fun to be back and to talk.

Speaker 6 (02:13:45):
With all of you.

Speaker 4 (02:13:46):
Man, what a relief that that life is normal again
to to a large degree.

Speaker 6 (02:13:54):
So thanks for.

Speaker 4 (02:13:56):
H for those of you who said you were glad
I was back, and for those of you who weren't,
to hell with you. I'm Kelly Wells and you can
find me all over social media media at Spooky Milk,
email us at PW Torch, nxt at gmail dot com,
or call us in the future at five one five,
six oh five nine three four five banter with us,

(02:14:16):
or just listen live because you can do that without
me trying to bring you on the show. Tom who
are you.

Speaker 5 (02:14:23):
At Tom Stoup on Twitter?

Speaker 8 (02:14:25):
Where I guess I should be thinking about changing my
bio now, but I probably won't, and I am looking
forward to a bushel full of jack a emails next week.
I've got the answers in the back of my head
ready to go and uh, yes, go VIP so you
can hear Kelly and I gab all about the first

(02:14:45):
the title win of the first ever NXT champion on
Saturday on NXT eight years back.

Speaker 4 (02:14:53):
Nate, who are you?

Speaker 7 (02:14:55):
I right at Nate Lindbergh on Twitter. I write the
NXT hits and missus And as I mentioned earlier, I've
got another podcast where I talk about RPG gaming and
therapy last week and and uh and right now we're
covering the worldwide wrestling RPG so that's a tie in.

Speaker 15 (02:15:10):
UH.

Speaker 7 (02:15:10):
But last week we had Kevin Katani come on. This week,
I'm gonna be doing another podcast at Kelly Wells. He's
coming on to join uh and talk talk Turkey with us.
So come on and uh and and join us on
Saturday when that drops, and you can find that on Twitter.

Speaker 3 (02:15:25):
I'll have that. Uh, you know, you can find that
on my feed.

Speaker 7 (02:15:28):
I may not know the words to rappers Delight off
the top of my head.

Speaker 3 (02:15:32):
However, there is.

Speaker 7 (02:15:34):
A an eleven minute monologue by weird Al Yankovic called Albuquerque,
and I've memorized every word.

Speaker 4 (02:15:42):
That tracks for everything I know about you, my friends.
So you will see you next week and uh and
in all likelihood you'll hear us even before then. So cheers. Everyone.

Speaker 1 (02:16:05):
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions
or comments. That email address is Wadekeller Podcast at petewtorch
dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. Also
welcome your feedback on Twitter. Even follow us on Twitter
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Speaker 13 (02:16:28):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
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(02:16:49):
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Speaker 1 (02:16:59):
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Speaker 16 (02:17:22):
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(02:17:44):
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(02:18:07):
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(02:18:47):
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Speaker 4 (02:19:03):
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Speaker 8 (02:19:18):
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(02:19:55):
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