5 YRS AGO RAW POST-SHOW: Money in the Bank build, Liv's push, Styles's return, WWE corporate speak, more

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
One benefit of VIP membership is access to our back
issue library, contemporaneous in depth insider reporting on pro wrestling
in real time over the past thirty plus years and
throughout the year twenty twenty two. We're going to begin
our march through the year two thousand and two with
back issues posted each week in PDF and all text formats.

(00:20):
You can read it in a PDF format with our
original magazine slash newsletter style layout on your screen and
flip through the pages, or you can read a straightforward
all text format on your phone or tablet or laptop.
The back issues early in two thousand and two covered
the arrival of Scott Hall, Kevinash, and Holkogan to WWE
and all the controversy that came with them, plus my
cover story that broke the news on the planned launch

(00:43):
by Jerry and Jeff Jarrett of a promotion called TNA.
Also the early two thousand and two features are two
thousand and one Year in Review features, including ranking Pro
Wrestling's most influential powerbrokers and our Torch year end awards,
the year in Quotes, and the top fifth stories ranked
in order from the year two thousand and one. So

(01:04):
go VIP and dive into our back issues. We have
most of our back issues available as soon as you
sign up, with new back issues week by week from
the year two thousand and two, one at a time
throughout the year twenty twenty two. PW torch dot Com
slash go VIP PW torch dot com slash go VIP.
That's pwtorch dot com slash go vip for full information

(01:25):
and our sign up form. It's more than podcasts, it's
an unmatched library of wrestling history spending more than three decades.
As soon as you sign up, with more issues added
throughout the year.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Now, PW Torch brings you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling
Post Show five years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
This week on the Raw Post Show, I was joined
by Rich Fan just as I am today on the
New flag Ship EPSIOD so to the Weight Keller podcast
and we talked about Raw right after the show went
off the air with live callers and emails. We discussed
the ramifications of the return of aj Styles, Live Morgan's
emerging push and match against Charlotte, Money in the Bank,
hype Viking Raiders versus Street Profits, the hype for Becky

(02:15):
Lynch next week, the phrases WWE went back to over
and over again this week throughout the show, and how
WWE could instantly freshen up the over the corporate scripted
sounding promos and more over an now and a half
of analysis from May fourth, twenty twenty. This is the
Weight Keller Progressling post show five years ago flashback for Tuesday,
May sixth, twenty twenty five. Here we go, Rich, I

(02:38):
think we have a new leading contender to win Money
in the Bank on Sunday? Is that being Aj Styles?
What did you think of his reintroduction tonight as a
surprise participant in Money in the Bank. They did not
announce the wrestlers ahead of time. Tom Phillips emphasized, we
don't know how many are going to be in this match.
But he ended up coming out and beating a beating
up Bumberto Correo to win, and then kind a promo

(03:02):
about what's been going out well, sort of what's been
going on in his head, mostly just blew off the
fact that he lost the Boneyard match to Undertaker. Your
thought pro and con on how that all play it
out tonight?

Speaker 3 (03:12):
I thought it was a good idea to bring Aj
to raw. I think it gave them another star to
work with. I also thought that the way he kind
of did what one would assume anyone would do, but
being the heal, he kind of had the ability to
sell it in a way that maybe a face couldn't wear.
He said there were never rules in a boneyard match,
and similar to Bruce's did you ever hear tully submit argument?

(03:38):
It's one of those little things where you just get
annoyed that someone brings that up as a when you
see that they were buried six feet under in a match.
And yeah, I thought it was a good idea. I
thought it was a great way they executed it. The
only thing I really would have appreciated is if even
if we had five silhouettes just to signify there would
be five people, because really at the end they just said, oh,
he's the last guy.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, take away some of the that the It took
a little while for it to sink in, Oh, this
means AJ's gonna be in the match because everyone else had,
you know, won, and then somebody else came out. So yeah,
the five silhouettes would have been I think a good idea,
a good way to let people know when uberto and
AJ were fighting.

Speaker 4 (04:16):
This is it.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
You know it's going to be one of these two
and kind of play out both scenarios a little bit more.
The thing that I wasn't crazy about. And I know
it's been played both ways by heels over the years,
but when you get buried alive in a boneyard match,
I kind of want them. I don't want the heal
to come out and just brush it off like it
was nothing. And AJ did that, like I almost believed him.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
That it was nothing.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
And to me, if you're going to try to sell
people on, you know, matches like that in the future,
as far as oh, this is consequential to the characters
involved in the storyline, having AJ just go a big deal.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
I was buried alive, big deal here I am.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
I'm I'm now just you know, pretending basically it didn't
happen to me because it was no big deal and
now I'm gonna fight for the world title because i
want money in the bank.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
I don't mind pivoting him into the money in the bank.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
I like the idea of him having that as a
way to taunt and torment as best he can Drew
McIntyre in coming months and I think Drew and Aj
as a logical next opponent or future opponent for Drew
after Seth. But to me, I would rather I would
like to have seen Aj come out and seem as

(05:23):
if he truly was a changed man. The announcer's paid
some lip service to that, but I kind of want
to think with what Aj went through, and I know
it's this kind of mystical other world outside of the
normal narrative structure in universe that that would be presents,
but I wanted to see him more disheveled and maybe
have the announcers not just talk about it, but give

(05:43):
us some evidence to her eye that one undertaker put
him through did change him enough where we should look
at him differently. And to me, this was the same old, brash,
confident Aj, which isn't bad. I just think it undercut
the boneyard.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
Match, And if they wanted to go one step further
and continue the plight of Apollo Cruise, they could have
set it up as him being the last person until
Aj Whack is injured knee and Nancy Kerrigandham and now
he's in there, so at least you have some extra momentum.
Even if you don't show AJ. You show He's out
in the back clutching his knee, and they say, you know,

(06:16):
this is the only person we got left. Send him,
and then AJ's music hits. I think there are a
couple of ways they could have made that a little
bit more effective, because otherwise, I don't know about you,
but I assume at some point Apollo's going to get
the I didn't get a shot at this match against AJ, presume,
and he wins money in the bank and get dispatched.
But at least that adds a little bit more animosity

(06:37):
to it.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Well, what do you think about what I said about
the Boneyard match and AJ's literally saying, no big deal.

Speaker 5 (06:44):
Oh I.

Speaker 6 (06:46):
I've completely given enough on that sort of like logic
working there, because the same thing, if you notice, happened
also with Live Morgan and Charlotte later in the evening,
where yeah, I know, logically, this is why you're coming
out and I'm going to just undercut all of that,
and it just it.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
Makes your head hurt. And I think if they had
had him, I think way to me, they tried to
make up for it by having Alistair Black go right
to it.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, but he's not.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
This sounds silly, but he's not spooky enough for that
to kind of take hold for me.

Speaker 7 (07:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, the Alistair Black promo kind of set him up
as a rival of AJ's in that match, like someone
to watch, that's a battle to watch in that match,
And I like when they do that because you can
get kind of lost in the numbers, especially when it's
wrestlers from you know, set of wrestlers from two different groups,
two different brands, and in that case, you know, it
gave people that concrete situation to imagine of Black versus Styles,

(07:49):
because one of the reasons Vince doesn't do tournaments on
pay per view is people want to know what the
main event's going to be. And when you do a
tournament all in one night, you can't advertise a main event.
You can only advertise the possibility of a main event,
and true in money in the bank, you can't promise
Black and Styles will battle, but you can at least
market it as an absolute distinct possibility and really an
inevitability when you think about the way the match will

(08:11):
play out. So I'm glad they follow it up with
a Black interview, but yeah, I would have liked Styles
and the announcers. I would like Styles to present more
evidence so the announcers would have something to point to
about how Styles is more dangerous or more damaged, or
more unpredictable or something because of what he went through
to be gone that long and come back and be
like just brush it off his shoulder, like got no

(08:32):
big deal.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
I think as a missed opportunity to recast him.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
In a way where fans would say, hey, something's different
about Styles, and if I'm Drew, he's got a different
AJ Styles to look out for if AJ wins money.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
In the bank, if they had sold it, this was
a traumatic experience, and that's where I kind of just
have had that abused of fans syndrome kick in and
I just gave up on it. But from a critical standpoint,
if they gave AJ Styles, the impetus of that match
with the Undertaker changed him for a dark way, and
he put in the calf crusher longer than he needed

(09:07):
to want them burto, or he had an edge to him,
or even something as silly. You know, still our colleagues,
Zach Haydorn from a more artistic styling, you see something
on his tights that refers back to either the Undertaker
or that match, so he can remind himself never to
fail like that again. I think even as a heel,
that would make sense instead of just you know, he

(09:30):
could have made it far worse the way if he
had come out and literally brust off the dirt from
the grave on his.

Speaker 5 (09:36):
Way to the rings. But that would be the only
way they could have done it.

Speaker 8 (09:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, he could just leave footprints of mud and dirt
in the ring as he runs the ropes. Yeah, we're
about to go to a commercial break. Why let's say
the commercial breaks when you can go vi ip and
experience our shows with the ads and plugs removed. Pw
torch dot com slash go viip. That's PW torch dot

(10:01):
com slash go vip for full details, or go to Patreon,
Patreon dot com slash PW Torch. Vip ratestart as low
as four dollars in ninety nine cents to remove the
ads and plugs through Patreon. Full VIP membership starts at
nine dollars in ninety nine cents to reach yourself to
a streamlined, ad and plug free listening experience with a
VIP or Patreon membership. All right, Well, we got a

(10:29):
lot to talk about on today's show. Let's set the table,
introduce ourselves, and then get the phone calls. This is
the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling post show following the Monday
May fourth, twenty twenty episode of WWE Monday Night rad
aired on USA Network. I love that during Raw they
air to commercial going.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Live every Monday on USA Network Monday Night.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Raw, and then they went right back to the pre
tape show. Yeah exactly, but we are live. Most of
you are listening to us on the lay. That's great.
If you want to join us live, by the way,
just go to pw torch during Raw right after it ends,
and we're right around five minutes after Raw ends, our
live stream begins and the link to that live stream

(11:08):
can be filed at the top and usually the bottom
also of my Raw report at pw torch dot com.
So if you're not watching these days, and ratings indicate
many of you are not watching, but you still might
want to keep up on things through our recap and
analysis here on the show. Thank you, by the way,
but you can also skim over our report on pw
torch dot com. iReport on pw torch dot com and
then jump right to the link to livestream the show

(11:30):
and listen in on our analysis of what has happened
and what we think of it. So again, that's PW
torch dot com. Click on my Raw report for a link.
You can also find the link on Twitter. I post
it near the end of RAW or shortly after Raw ends.
Our Twitter account is at PW torch, so follow us there,
so a couple of ways to find us. You can

(11:50):
also find the homepage to the show and usually find
us pretty easily at wadekellerposts show dot com. That's the
homepage for our podcast. Okay, so with all that said,
let's introduce the co host. It is Rich Fan from
the pod Torch Daily Cast, Deep Dive and also the
PW Torch VIP East Coast Cast VIP version.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Rich, welcome back to the co host chair.

Speaker 5 (12:16):
Thanks Wade, happy to do it.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
Hope's all well with you and your family, And I'm
enjoying RAW, so every time you bring me on, it's
a good episode, so keep the streak coming.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yes, I mean it is raw and WW programming is
polar I don't polarizing is a word, but because I
don't think anyone's like super enthusiastic, like this is the
greatest era. I mean, I think people understand, you know,
what's going on, and you know, some people strongly think
of it shouldn't be happening. Others are like, yeah, I
you know, I always I wonder too, I'm gonna sidetract

(12:47):
myself here. They keep saying the risk is worth the reward,
and that's like drilled into you. If you're watching Raw
for even a half hour, you hear that being said
a few times. If you watch for three hours, I'd
be interested in the count on that.

Speaker 7 (12:59):
I do not.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
I'm not assigning anyone in the task of watch rewatching
Raw for three hours, but if you haven't watched it
yet and you do track for us, how many times
they said the risk is worth the reward, including aj
bungling it in his promo, and send me a tweet
or an email letting me know how many times they
said it. But I wonder if that isn't I mean,
it very well could be completely unrelated. But the conspiracy

(13:21):
theorist in me is sort of saying, it's sort of
this message to wrestlers, Hey, the risk is shown up
for work. Kevin Owens and everybody else is worth the reward,
or hey, fans who might be on you know, or
anybody who's unsure if we should be doing this. The
risk is worth the reward because we're entertaining you with
this content, this fresh first run content every week. That

(13:42):
cross my mind it might be a little uh, you know,
it might be a little bit of a conspiracy theory,
but I'm sure I have a feeling that's crossed somebody's
mind in WWE Rich.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
I've worked with Travis Bryant for five and a half
years now, so conspiracy theories are things I am quite
used to. And I'll say I'll take you one further.
This morning, when I got up and I was getting
my son ready, I saw on Twitter when I was
setting up to do some stuff on my computer for
my gig at Pit, there was John Cena was being

(14:16):
celebrated for doing another Make a Wish while the pandemic's
going on. He was covered head to toe in plastic
and face mask and all that with the young boy,
and I thought it was curious. This is the first
time I've seen him make it with commercial on their
show where he's narrating it and.

Speaker 5 (14:37):
They don't say anything about him after.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
And just like I thought about that award this morning,
they didn't retweet it, they didn't tout it in anyway.
It was just kind of there, same thing with you know,
obviously Roman can't do them right now because he himself
is immuno compromised, and that would just be a you know,
a shame on both ends. And so, yes, I was

(14:59):
with you when I saw the risks worth the reward
every time I saw God Blessed Charlie because every time
she's getting interviewed, these dudes are like thirty inches from
her face and I would have to tap out at
some point because there's usual wrestler like talk with a
little spittle hitting you, and there's pandemic wrestler spittle, and
it's like what are we doing here? Same thing with

(15:22):
the announcers. It is just really weird. That risk is
worth the reward resonated with me in the same way.
Just like they said, I don't know if you caught
this part week, because Ray Mysterio brought it up, Yes
I could die, and I was like, wait a minute,
what He's like, Yeah, I could die in this match,
but it's worth it because the risk is worth the reward,

(15:43):
And I'm like, okay, now now message received.

Speaker 5 (15:47):
I got it, guys.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
And that is playing up the idea of fighting on
the roof and being big showed off of the roof,
and so they're playing that out.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
But yeah, he's like, that could be all I wrote.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
And I mean, they're selling the idea of get the
network if you don't, and tune in if you do
either way, and watch the possibility of you know, kind
of an evil can Eevil stunt gone wrong, somebody falling
off the roof or being thrown off the roof, and
you know the way ww's done stunts over the years.
I'm sure there's some fans who are watching that going
I bet they're gonna throw somebody off the roof and

(16:17):
they're gonna have a landing pad and they're gonna do
some sort of cutaway. But and by the way, I
wouldn't rule that out. I mean, it's crazy, It's absolutely crazy.
I don't know how they could pull it off. It
would be you know, I mean, you'd almost have to
hire a professional stunt man and set up this elaborate
thing off camera off to the side that you would
post produce. But I'm not ruling out that they don't

(16:38):
throw somebody off the roof and then they land, you know,
ten feet onto a crash pad that's set up there,
but that you know, what's scaffolding built up. But then
the cutaway through post production is actually of them splatted
on the ground or who knows what, landing on a table.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
You know, they'll just crash through a table. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
I'm not ruling anything out, and they want you to
think that, not to rule anything out. That was one
of the pitches tonight is their high stakes. But somebody
might fly off that roof and you should be there
to watch it. Quote live.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah, I saw that, and the only thing I could
think over and over it is the scene and stand
by me where he's like, do you want to see
a dead body? That's basically yep, what they're doing right now.
And it's weird, Yes, it is.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
So Anyway, what I'm saying is the show's going way back.
The show is polarizing in the sense that some people
are grading it on a curve and adjusting their expectations
because thankfully a lot of wrestlers are not appearing because
they're not comfortable or for whatever reason being there and
other wrestlers are and it's a smaller scale back crew,
but there's I think a number of good things happening

(17:45):
on Raw that other people are focusing on, and other
people just really appreciate that there is original content and
watching Drew McIntyre do what he does and other things
we'll talk about on the show in terms of good
performances or just curious performances. Watching people get in I hate,
can't believe I'm saying this, but get an opportunity to

(18:05):
show who they can be, whether it's Live Morgan or
vincn Thorn, the race profile as a Leena Egan an
Austin Theory and company. There's enough going on, you know,
to I think when you watch it, get something out
of it other than it's the same people doing the
same thing without a crowd, and I think rich I

(18:26):
don't know what it was about tonight's show that jumped
out to you, but I think the theme for Raw
and SmackDown for me has been I get why the
ratings are going down. It's not super deep and big
name stars and the crowd is not there. And I
totally get some people it's just not for them. But
I also think for those who are watching and enjoying
it and defending it to some degree, or defending at
least their enjoyment of it is because it's for the

(18:48):
people who like to see new wrestlers get chances to
show what they can do and maybe come out of
this better off. And I think this was another example
of that tonight.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah, with the roster being what it is, I joked
and I'm sure we'll get to it at some point.
Once Veate came out and called himself all six', FIVE
i was, like that's that's the biggest green Light i've
ever heard of for a pro. Wrestler and quite some
time it's, like what get your name, that don't worry about.

Speaker 5 (19:11):
It here's my.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Height i'll be.

Speaker 5 (19:12):
Fine and so that what's, amazing AND.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
I really, appreciated you, know we'll talk about, everybody But Lived.
Morgan the More i've the More i've watched raw or
at least in the raws i've, watched she's gotten better
every week and she's finding herself in a way THAT
i didn't think was possible when she first came along
with the riot. Squad and there's just so many people

(19:38):
down the line with that And drew most, notably there
are no, fans but By, god he's acting like a
world champion the way he caresses the, title the way
he pauses and just inflex And god bless him having
a deal with Seth rawlins and what he's doing BECAUSE
i get he's taken a little bit of His age.

Speaker 5 (19:57):
Of The fall and updating it for twenty.

Speaker 3 (19:59):
Twenty but it's it's.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
Icky, yes, yes ikey's a good word for.

Speaker 9 (20:06):
It need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling?
Podcasts will come join Me alan Frel over in The
Progress paradise At Pterbo TORCH vip as we mask on
the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of
the great matches and shows from around the, world be
it THE, Us, Japan europe Or. Mexico there's always a

(20:29):
place for wrestlings past in The paradise, too and we've
done fun historical shows such as The We Love liger
series celebrating the glorious career Of Jusian thunderliger and Our
eye was there when shows where our guests will join
me to talk about a classic bout that they were
in attendance. For We Love variety and you can expect
lots of it at The Progress. Paradise detailed Pw TORCH

(20:51):
vip subscription information and a list of all THE vip
benefits is available at pterwrew torch vip info dot. Com and,
yet ALL vip podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps
on iPhone And android, devices or you can stream them
directly from our ad FREE vip mobile.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
Site see you in the. Paradise all, right.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Cool, well let's let's give out the phone numbers and
then get to. Calls if you already and, hold we'll
get to you in a. Moment if you are not
yet but you're live streaming the, show we invite you to.
Participate the number is uh three four seven two one
five eight five five. Eight that's three four seven two
one five eight five five. Eight when you, call push

(21:42):
one on your keypad indicate you want to join the,
conversation and that'll flag you on our switchboard when you push.
One after you, call you can also email us At
Wade Keller podcast at peak w toorch dot. Com Wade
Keller podcast at peakwtorch dot.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Com all, right let's get to phone.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Calls we'll begin with one one, One go, ahead state
your name and where you're calling.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
From if you heard a, Tone.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Oh, damn somebody Is.

Speaker 10 (22:10):
Valentine, Craig.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
VALENTINE i hope you're. Okay it's been a week or,
so Are. Craig thanks for calling meutes on your?

Speaker 10 (22:17):
Mind the thing you were just talking about absolutely the
riskers of the reward.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Thing, yeah, yeah what do you, Think. Craig did we
Lose craig or did we lose? Ourselves? Oh, No i'm,
Here rich is.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
Here that's WHAT i don't know if we're.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Here, Hey, craig we can't hear, You, Craig, Craig, creig call.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
Back let.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
ME i got a mute and on. Mute let's see
what happened To. Craig can you hear? Us did you
mete Us?

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Man Maybe valentine took him like maybe he's maybe he
maybe he went to Find.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
VALENTINE i don't.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
Know all, right it's going to be in the middle Of.
Russia those flights are not, cheap well maybe right now they?

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Are, yes, yes all, right let's go next to three zero,
five three zero. Five your shocked for going to you,
early but you are. Up please state your name and.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
Where you call it.

Speaker 4 (23:10):
From, hey, Rich Hey, wade have you hear From?

Speaker 11 (23:13):
Miami and, yeah you caught me By.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Yeah you're you're not the only one on. Hold BUT
i was, like, Ah i'm not gonna make heavier weight
to the.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
End it's, time.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Because we use up all your, topics you, know by
the time we get to, you so we'll put we'll
put pressure on other colors to keep things.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
Fresh and you kind and you kind of already did
so oh, geez.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
All, right well at least give me points for trying
and started.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
Strong, yeah, yeah, no you.

Speaker 11 (23:41):
Mentioned The Liv. MORGAN i was actually thinking the same
thing WHILE i was watching. IT i liked, her, UH
i liked her performance and like the small stuff that she.
DID i just thought they were given like really bad.
Material it's you, know it was it sounded like overly.
Scripted but her reactions To CHARLOTTE i kind of dug.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
That, YEAH i MEAN i thought it was a mixed
bag With liv And. CHARLOTTE i MEAN i Like charlotte
being so overtly helish in her demeanor and in the.
RING i didn't like Ambiguous. CHARLOTTE i want to know
Whether i'm supposed to like her or dislike, her and
THEN i want her to to speak and act in

(24:20):
a way that reinforces, that AND i want to see her.
Lose AND i Thought live was was. Good she was
kind of, sassy but not she wasn't willing to just you,
know like back down To charlotte or be.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Diminutive you.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
Know she called her out and then they had a
A i don't know IF i guess competitive, match RICH
i Mean live it was mostly Like hope spots That
charlotte stomped, out but she lasted a while and the
announcers pushed her. Hard we have an email from someone
kind of almost complaining about how heavy handed it. Was
but it was a match where even Though live, lost

(24:54):
it was framed, as, hey this Was live showing people.
SOMETHING i, Guess hobby are first to, YOU i, mean
what do you think the strengths of this? Is where
of lives? Specifically and then over to rich on on
WHAT i just commented on.

Speaker 11 (25:04):
Too, well mainly mainly because during the promo part of,
it she she definitely seemed like she was trying to
remember her, lines but her reaction showed that she had,
like you, know like acting. Chops you, know so maybe
if she were to be able to speak freely And,
CHARLOTTE i JUST i don't like her promos because of,
her you, know kind OF i don't, Know tacata is

(25:25):
the Word i'm looking.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
For this is the last time THAT i am going
to bring you on this show, Early, Yeah, Charlotte charlotte
broke in. There it's, robotic it's it's it's. Real it's metronome,
like it's like each is, on each syllable hits the
beat of the metronome as she watches it back and.
Forth AND i don't think she talks that way in real,

(25:46):
life And i'd like to see her loosen, up but
it's what she.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
Does.

Speaker 11 (25:49):
Yeah, so so that that was on the promo part
and as part of the, match it was, actually you,
KNOW i liked, it you, KNOW i mean there were
a couple brutal looking spots that looked like somebody really
got you, know banged, up but you, know it made
it look like a, Fight SO i kind, of you,
KNOW i dug the match And I'M i Like Live,

(26:10):
morgan So I'm i'm pulling for her kind of, like you,
know AND i think she has more of an i've
than For Danna. Brook but they kind of feel like
they're in the same you, know like. Ballpark but you,
Know i'd like to see where it's. Going BUT i
just kind of wish that they freer her up more to,

(26:31):
speak you, know than just you, know a script like
the way they haven't they.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Haven't, yeah, yeah go, Ahead, Rich.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
YEAH i thought That charlotte Was, charlotte which, is as
you both, mentioned the the metronome and the keys and
the Woos is periods and all that, good bad and.
Ugly BUT i thought live despite in no. ONE i
was in the same boat with their conversation because prior To,
RAW i had been Watching upload On, amazon which is

(27:05):
not a, plug but it is a, good very good.
Show it's a dark comedy by the guy who Made The,
Office AND i was just reading an article Before raw
about how the actors on that show were told to
just if you didn't like a, line just go with
whatever you feel is different and we'll figure it out.
Later and since that guy has all these empties from

(27:25):
The office in parks and Rec i'm gonna like Mister
daniels and the way he does. Things and so THEN
i jumped To, raw AND i could hear in the
back of my head a writer speaking to them about how,
they as a, woman should say these things and have
to say, everything just Like ray WHEN i felt like
he was doing his hostage, report which is better than Old,
ray don't get me, wrong BUT i still felt like

(27:46):
that WAS i might die out. There tell my, KID
i love.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Him his name Is.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
Dominic it's a come, on, guys you don't have to.
Go or the other one was the speech That seth
gave where it's just, Like, OKAY i get, it we get,
it we get, it we get. It, Messiah, messiah, Disciple. Messiah.
Uh but, YEAH i Think live somehow is making it,
work AND i don't know if they can ever replace

(28:14):
how Amazing osca's. Been just when you go TO Wwe
japan and you realize she's actually giving a promo In
japanese and not just speaking.

Speaker 5 (28:24):
Gibberish, yeah it's. Amazing like if you could.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
Subtitle that on the it's tape now they, could it
would be so much better instead of just look at
the Funny japanese.

Speaker 5 (28:35):
Lady But i'll take WHAT i can.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Get you can support us On patreon and get these
shows with ads and, plugs remove the Weaight keller prosing,
Podcast Weight Keller prossing post, shows and THE Pw torch
daily cast throughout the week with ads and plugs, remove
plus a few BONUS vip shows throughout the month for
just four dollars and ninety nine cents a, month check
it out patreon dot com SLASH pw tor v I.

(29:00):
P that's patreon dot com SLASH Pw torch VI ip
and you can also upgrade to other tiers and receive
even more benefits Through.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Patreon have you? Eir what else for?

Speaker 5 (29:12):
Us?

Speaker 11 (29:12):
Well, yeah and set me up for a, segue because
that's the other THING i want to talk.

Speaker 12 (29:15):
About was so.

Speaker 11 (29:19):
Shanea basler has she has she merchant.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Traffic, Yes.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
MORSE i thought tonight was another. EXAMPLE i, mean she's
it's not like that she's being diminished compared to other
wrestlers in her, division but she's just she's being presented
as another just another woman in the. Division AND i
think that after How Ronda rowsei was treated And basler's

(29:45):
push an n xt wwe could have gotten away with
with Touting shane as something really special for the length
of R nxt title.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Run her association With.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
ROWSEY i just think they should have treated her like
she was a huge crossover select not not not lying about,
it but like her she should have been utilized in
a way as if it was a given that the
whole world knows who she is and she's a big
star and treat her that. Way and they're kind of
treating her like somebody who just got called up AND
i just a another, somebody a main event, wrestler but

(30:16):
not somebody above.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
That AND i think it's a lost. OPPORTUNITY i think
it's ruining.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Her BUT i thought tonight was another example that really
cemented that she's you, know, stay you, know tune in
see or she's a big, star or she's you, know
a big, deal but she's not a bigger deal than
everybody else rich are?

Speaker 2 (30:32):
You do you agree with?

Speaker 1 (30:33):
That or you think they're doing a good enough. Job
it's it's being nitpicky to bring that.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
Up, well BEFORE i enter this, WAY i just want
to start With kojudo ergo Sum and for those of
you who don't Speak, LATIN i think, THEREFORE i am
why is that mma fire opening With latin to start her? Conversation,
yeah that is the top ten dumbest and my son's

(30:58):
asleep SO i won't get in trouble for quotum quote.
Cursing WHENEVER i say, DUMB i gotta give him a fine.
Buck that is the dumbest thing during this. Pandemic i've
had to say that a. Lot that is the dumbest
Thing i've seen in a professional wrestling. Ring if you
Have Arn anderson and he's just gonna punch you in the,
throat you don't need him to tell you about how
he's gonna do. It and he Read dickens and this

(31:20):
inspired him to punch you in the. THROAT i don't that.
Stuff that stuff throws me. Off and you mentioned merging the.
Traffic she basically had this hard me new driver flashers
going while she moved into the lane like this is
this is. SAD i thought that they were going to
treat her like the war machine she'd been IN. Nxt

(31:42):
BUT i feel like at this point the name of
the game is no one is above the, brand and
even the people who you thought were the protected class
are getting treated like everybody. Else LIKE i don't, know
bear WITH i. Don't i'm, sorry my brains stopped. Working
correct me If i'm. Wrong but did they mention that
All becky being On billions.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Last, night not THAT i. Saw do you see anything?

Speaker 11 (32:06):
HAPPIER i don't think.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
SO i, Remember, YEAH i had a bet with some
of my friends about that Because. Billions for those of
you who don't watch, Again i'm on MY tv. Show
shtick is a great show On showtime about billionaire and
a federal agent who reminds me way too much of
myself in.

Speaker 5 (32:24):
Ways i'm not comfortable he really. Is there's a scene where.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
He harangued a gentleman for not having a bag to
pick up his dog's poop and how that is the
decline of civilization if you don't have the basic tenet of.
Responsibility AND i had that conversation with one of my
neighboring kids when he did the exact same thing about
a week, ago and then realized that that was the
thing that happened In billions and just kind of had
to go home and, like we'll go back into my

(32:50):
house and just like contemplate. Life, yeah she was on.
There she was great and apparent from what. COPPLE i
follow him On twitter and he's done some interviews since
the creator of the show and. Showrunner he loved her
and wants to bring her back and marry a peep

(33:11):
FROM wwe like it's a popular. Thing it reminds me
so much of When Daniel bryan became the mascot of
The San Francisco giants and The.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
Seahawks dobe doesn't want you to get too, big too
fast until, they you, know use you?

Speaker 5 (33:24):
Up.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Rich how are you on turn? Signals what do you
mean you? Roll you're winded on if.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Somebody doesn't use a turn signal, before like leaving a parking,
lot did gate which way they're? Turning or if you're
waiting to leave a parking lot and someone's driving up
and they don't use their turn signal and and you
know they turn and you're, LIKE i could have turned
right knowing you were going to turn in, here and
you were, like do you?

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Ever does? That is that one of your, things like
like the dog poop?

Speaker 10 (33:45):
Bag?

Speaker 3 (33:46):
No for, me it's more of the In. PENNSYLVANIA i
don't know how it is In, minnesota OR i know
how it is In. Florida i've driven In. FLORIDA i
amazed my retiree parents dry as well as they do In,
florida being next To New. Yorker's But i'm a big
person on. Signal just tell me where you're. GOING i
don't care how fast you're doing it or how slow
you're doing. It just tell me you're doing. It if

(34:07):
you're going left around the, world or you're the person
who decides to merge into a lane and just not do,
anything that's When i'm gonna honk or escalate it to
just you, know seething Because i'm not trying to get
jacked out. HERE i learned that lesson WHEN i was much.
Younger like you, know there's some people who you get

(34:28):
into these spats and they have a lot less to,
lose And i'm not going to be that person to
do it.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Exactly, Yeah, NO i meant just sort of does the
turn signal, thing ir. CUE i just figure there's a
commonality between the picking up after your dog and not
just flicking your finger to indicate what you're doing in
your car when you're changing lanes or.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
Turning, yeah it's not that, Hard, yeah it really isn't
like if you're making a left or The here In,
pittsburgh we have a. THING i don't know if it's
in anywhere, else but WHEN i moved, here they, declare
it's called The Pittsburgh.

Speaker 5 (34:58):
Left if you're at a red.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
Light and the light is red prior to it turning,
green some drivers will put their signal, on run the red,
light and make the left turn against the flow of
traffic to wherever they're.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Going oh, Wow, NO i don't know about.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
That so that's that's WHERE i just look And i'm like,
sputtering like what are we?

Speaker 5 (35:19):
Doing all?

Speaker 13 (35:21):
Right in twenty, TWELVE nxt transitioned into the developmental system
and ultimately the brand you see. Today on The TORCH
vip PODCAST Nxt Eight Years, back we'll be taking a
weekly look at this page in NXT's early.

Speaker 14 (35:40):
History Join Kelly wells and Me Tom stout FROM Pwt
TALKS nxt Every saturday as we go eight years back
to the day to track NXT's rising talents and why
they did or didn't work Out exclusively FOR Pw TORCH vip.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Members i'm gonna steer the show back to wrestling for a. Moment,
here go, ahead how are you?

Speaker 11 (36:05):
Here, Yeah i'm not gonna mention anything about driving down
here In. Miami is that that that would be like
the entire?

Speaker 4 (36:10):
Podcast?

Speaker 11 (36:12):
Yes, yeah uh, yeah the uh just two quick. Things
the you mentioned if anyone wants to see, uh take you.
Up if anyone happens to take you up on the
risk is worth the? Reward how many times they said?
THAT i also would like to hear how many times
they said the most unique the.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Bank, yes there's a unique is an it's. Binary it
either is or it. Isn't if it is one of a,
kind it cannot be the most one of a. Kind
one of a kind is a state of being that
does not have a degree to. It so you cannot
be most. Unique you can be most, different but you
can't be most unique. Anyway and and by the, way

(36:52):
everybody has once everybody has one six of a chance
of winning On, sunday who's in that?

Speaker 3 (36:56):
Match and what.

Speaker 5 (36:59):
Happens if the ladies and the men run into each?

Speaker 3 (37:01):
OTHER i know they.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
Didn't they didn't make that as much AS i thought
they would. TONIGHT i think if this.

Speaker 11 (37:06):
WERE t AND, A i wouldn't have put in past them.
That uh one of the other, women when's the?

Speaker 2 (37:11):
Belt that's Not?

Speaker 11 (37:12):
Shana and Then shanna takes the men's spirit breecase because
she wants to wrestle the man mm.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
Hmm, YEAH i mean this should be if they're going
to make this the Ultimate ain Rand all, that you,
know the strongest must Of if two of the women
wound up winning money in the bank as the men,
FOUGHT i.

Speaker 5 (37:31):
Would cackle because that would just be oh oh that
would be.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Amazing, yeah, yeah, yeah that that that would be my.

Speaker 11 (37:39):
PREDICTION i Think i'm Gonna i'm, Gonna i'm gonna make
that my prediction for the.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
Primer, okay, good, yep. Yep.

Speaker 11 (37:47):
Yeah and then the other thing, was you, KNOW i
just want to say rest in, Peace Don Shula man
because sad day here In.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Miami so, yeah, YEAH i can relate in the sense,
of you, Know Bud grant is getting up there age
and Sorry bud if you're a, listener but you, know
someday in the next you, know he's in his, nineties
so someday in the next twenty, years we're probably gonna
hear the news of, that and it's going to be
a very big deal here In minnesota.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Too the you, know just.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Great viking head coach throughout my, childhood so, YEAH i
can relate to.

Speaker 11 (38:18):
That my brother's the one who told, Me, yeah he
called me up he goes our other dad.

Speaker 4 (38:24):
Died.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah, no when you're a, kid when you're a, kid
you look up to sports head, coaches if you're a sports,
fan you see them in that, way you, know, leaders father.
Figures all these athletes looking up to. Them they're telling,
these you, know athletes what to do and how to do.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
It AND i, mean, YEAH i mean they.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Are they are a very important part of growing, up
and you definitely have memories of them as a father,
figure at least if you have a good head coach
like Down schuler About grant to look up.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
To, yeah And shula was a GUY i, remember especially
at the time being A bills. Fan looking back at
the history OF i remember. Him and then ALSO i
want to say it Was Joe gibbs being the only
people to take between the two of, them eight quarterbacks
to nine Different Super. Bowls, wow, no, one how do

(39:11):
you do?

Speaker 7 (39:11):
That?

Speaker 3 (39:11):
Yeah you just and in different. Decades you Had united's in,
Sixties greasy in the, Seventies marino AND i can't remember
the other with the eighty two. QUARTERBACK i fail At dolphin's,
history but, Yeah i'm like that that blows my. MIND
i MEAN i always Thought gibbs was awesome With Thaisman

(39:33):
williams and, ripping but that's nuts to.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
Me, well growing up A viking, FAN i can. Relate
it's only a little.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Different The vikings in like the last you, know thirty some,
years have had around thirty starting, quarterbacks and The vikings
have been really good about not taking them to The
Super bowl. Anyway but we've Had Brett, Farv Warren, Moon Randall.
CUNNINGHAM i mean we've had some you, know Fran, Tarkiton Tommy.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Kerry had some great quarterbacks over the.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
Years but, yeah and the lad troll me about two
years wait from, uh you're about two years From Aaron.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
Rodgers we might that might be next season or maybe
in two. YEARS i Mean Brett farr is already predicting.
It so, YEAH i mean that'll be. Fun i'm on
board for. THAT i, mean you, know it's been fun
SEEING i, mean If Aaron rodgers leaves on bad, terms
he's he's if he leaves The packers on bad, terms
he is a friend of The. Vikings if he doesn't

(40:32):
like The, packers as soon as he's not wearing that. Uniform,
yeah all, right all, right let's, uh let's hear. Things
try again To i'm using my turn signal And i'm
gonna steer us back into wrestling discussion, here any any
other wrestling topic before we move on to our other patient.

Speaker 11 (40:48):
Callers, no, yeah the patients come. Up all, right have
a good, Night thanks a.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Lot thanks having.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Anytime you're watching WW E raw Or SmackDown OR Aew
dynamite in, particular send us an email if you've got
thoughts on the show or a topic you want us
to address or a question for. Us wadekellor podcast at
pwtorch dot. Com Weadkeller podcast at pewtorch dot. Com if
there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that you
want us to address on our main podcast during our mailbank,

(41:21):
segments that same email applies Wad keller podcast at pw
torch dot. Com we invite that. Interaction let us know
what you think of what we're, saying and let us
know what you want us to talk about and ask
us specific. Questions Wadkeller podcast at pw torch dot.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
Com all, right let's Try craig. AGAIN i think It's,
craig could Be. Balente who is? This who's who's?

Speaker 5 (41:49):
Up? Now, Hey wade and, Read, hey what did you
do to?

Speaker 3 (41:53):
Crag i'm gonna say that's a heck of an impersonation
if it Is craig.

Speaker 15 (41:58):
Yes to do. IT i don't know what's going on With.
QUICK i have nothing to do with.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
It, okay because he called earlier and then suddenly. Disappeared
and then ALL i know Is i've never seen you
two in the same place at.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Once SO.

Speaker 15 (42:12):
I don't quite understand Why charlotte has to work matches
at two brands at the same, week because it's just
gonna have like a takeover level match Video, sharai but
she still has to work match at through, all it's
kind of making her sympathetic for.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Me, WELL i guess the shows she doesn't have a
ton of poll ALTHOUGH i will say she wasn't assigned
it by. Management it was more live challenging her And
charlotte accepting.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
It it's some of the detail work. Rate But valentine
brings up a good.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
POINT i, mean Brock lesner and, help you, know with,
Help Paul hayman decides when and where he, fights and
part of his you, know gimmick and his image and
what makes him seem special is the fact that he
calls his own. Shots charlotte didn't call her own shot.
Tonight other you, KNOW i mean live issue the. CHALLENGE
i Guess charlotte had to. AGREE i would have liked

(43:06):
a little more framework to Why charlotte, agreed AND i
would have because what you want to do is erase
from the from people's.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Minds, Oh charlotte's will will and accept the.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Challenge you, know good for. Her she's she's sort of
a fighting, champion titled or non. Title she's got a
big match On, wednesday but she was willing to Fight Live.
Morgan that actually is a check box on the on
the side Of, charlotte you, know being willing to put
her money where her mouth. IS i would have liked
to have seen something that would have made us see
that as a negative not a.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Positive and then you, know.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
With valentine, say and it's just you, know wrestling twice
in a. WEEK i don't think in real life it's
a big. DEAL i, MEAN i think she likes probably
that they're leaning on her a little. Bit and storyline,
wise she's quote property Of raw but happened to win
THE nxt title because of the, Rumbles so there's sort
of a loophole for it to be on both, shows
And i'm willing to accept that aspect of. IT i
guess my major issue is just a heel shouldn't accept

(44:00):
the challenge of a baby face WITHOUT i, think some
additional goating or Just charlotte going you, know into the
microphone after the, break, yeah or right before the.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Break. Yeah of Course i'll fight.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
You i'll beat you in thirty, seconds so that when
she doesn't beat her in thirty, seconds she's a heel
who got shown.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Up.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
Yeah first THING i thought of Was Becky Two, belts
and How becky was on both shows when she was
raw and smacked At women's champ and it was a
point of. PRIDE i think With charlotte, ONE i think
with everyone's staying at, home it's kind of one of those, romanesque,
unnecessary over the top phrases where you're, saying, OH i

(44:39):
have to work so hard at the same, place coming
back here in ten hours to. Do another thing is
that we're all working from, home. Ma'am don't don't try
to make it seem like you're anything different than any of.
US i think With charlotte it should have been either
the beg off or they needed to hit home a little.
Harder That live last moment before she made this comeback

(45:03):
Was charlotte thoroughly embarrassing her and Her charlotte, saying you
know WHAT i owed your. Receipt come, on little, girl
let me embarrass you. Again something where the stakes were
set That live had everything to lose and. Nothing, again
the way they set it, up it seemed Like charlotte
just had.

Speaker 5 (45:18):
Her arm twisted and she's, LIKE i Guess i'll.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
Wrestle and that Was and the other thing that didn't
help was and this is again one of those logic
things where the writers should focus more on this instead
of What latin phrases they should give A ufc, fighter
why in every other speech that she come out in
As Cam hawkins of The East Coast cast calls at
street Closed hall Of, fame and why did this time

(45:42):
she come out and wrestle gear that doesn't make?

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Sense, yep. YEP a good, Point, Valentine any follow up
on anything we added to.

Speaker 15 (45:51):
THAT i think one moment was really weird on the
world because they cut Out roman reins from this video
and sets and she used minions the benk As WrestleMania
and they just cut his steam out because he peens
Through roman. Rains what's going on With? Roman because it
just it it came out from this.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Highways we got an email on. That i'll add that
to this discussion.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Here dave emailed and, Said i'm not the Biggest Roman raigns,
fan but what the hell deleting him from the number
one cash? In it's hard to believe anyone could be
annoyed with the choice he. Made but are we talking
about physic? Man and the evidence is in front of
us or not in front of? Us As Roman reigns
is never to be mentioned or apparently even be seen each,
week From Blood mighty A hulkogan to firing dozens of

(46:36):
people while a washing profits Through Roman. Reigns what's the
possible justification for patronizing this? Company stay healthy and? Safe
Rich your take on that blackout? Moment, YEAH i was
in the same.

Speaker 3 (46:47):
BOAT i saw that as a little, weird just like
with the scene of COMMENT i made. Earlier when they phase,
out it is a hard phase, out and With, roman
the risk is worth the. Reward being thrown up is
in many ways as much as the fans and to
the wrestlers also could beat to him as the quote

(47:08):
unquote top. Guy how dare?

Speaker 5 (47:11):
He and this is me being.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
SARKE i want to make Sure i'm very clear with.
This put your health ahead of my, company and that
is they lost a lot of points waited a couple
of weeks ago when they decided to pocket a couple
of one hundred million in dividend money instead of funding.
Folks they were firing to raise what had already been

(47:34):
one of the records setting quarters in their. History but
at this point they don't. CARE i, mean that's been
quite clear to. ME i don't know about you, too
but they figured after The kashaki, incident there's a limit
to how much people are going to be disgusted and
will accept them as just pro. Wrestling and it kind
of flows into what happened with this and with just

(47:58):
the history of the Way vince McMahon doesn't want to
be seen as, wrestling but when it's, convenient will allow
it to be seen it's just wrestling because it'll fall
to the Four.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Uh, Yeah, Valentine uh your your your follow?

Speaker 4 (48:10):
Up, yeah just so that it was really weird and
the wrong and the day, yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
The blackout moment just like blacking out the screen in
and of, ITSELF i think drew more attention to the moment.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Too SO i can't.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
EVEN i, mean it's JUST i DON'T i can't. EVEN i,
MEAN i don't even want to speculate what the rationale
would be for.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
That but it's.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
Not it's Not Chris bannwa, LIKE i. DON'T i JUST
i don't know if They, YEAH i don't even. KNOW i, mean,
HONESTLY i don't. EVEN i can't. EVEN i, Mean, rich
what is what do you think the rationale is for doing?
That that that that if you got inside their, head.

Speaker 5 (48:47):
Well it's in the but THE i guess for them
the best.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Thoughts it's similar to how they Treated brock when he
was champ that second time, around where they wanted out of,
sight out of, mind and they wanted to elevate THE us,
TITLE i believe at the, time and make it seem, like,
well we don't need to mention that we have a world,
champion we don't need to mention that he might show
up at some. Point BUT i, REALLY i really see

(49:14):
this as not wanting to remind you that the dude
with cancer can't come out because we're not really doing something, responsible.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
AND I i, mean just to explore that topic for another,
MINUTE i think fans are kind of creeped out by
the fact that Like Roman rangs just ceased to. EXIST i,
mean how do you IF usc has somebody drop out
of a pay per view main, event they, Say, hey
this guy dropped out of a pay per view main,
event and it's just it's so it's so weird his

(49:45):
name hasn't been. Mentioned it wasn't it like that's a
big deal to be advertised for weeks on end and
then to suddenly they just change the match and they
don't mention his name. Again AND i think fans are
probably a little creeped out by this because THEY'RE i,
mean you do you wake up and just doubt whether
he even ever. EXISTED i, mean it's it's that it's
just that weird right. Now SO i don't, Know i'm

(50:08):
really curious about it, THOUGH I, mean LAST i, looked
he's still on Their superstars, page so he exists in
that realm Cool, Valentine it's so like that was all
you had or do you do you have anything?

Speaker 2 (50:18):
Else? That?

Speaker 3 (50:19):
Yeah who?

Speaker 15 (50:20):
Knew maybe maybe she's gonna turn into and you see a.
Punk can't you? Imagine you, know he's gonna be like
a big hero because corporation turned against.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Him well that make him the biggest baby face.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Though but, YES i, MEAN i, MEAN i guess you
can't rule out the possibility that it's a, storyline you.
KNOW i, mean he's Still i'm just, checked he's still
on The superstars. Page so, YEAH i don't, KNOW i don't.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Know, yeah.

Speaker 15 (50:46):
Go, Ahead, yeah, yeah all, right that's HOW i hope
everything's fine With.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Craig, yes my theory is The Mask gang FROM nxt abducted.

Speaker 7 (50:59):
Him Mid.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Thanks, valentine always great here for.

Speaker 16 (51:03):
You searching for more great pro wrestling, talk then join.
Me Jason powell host them the three Weekly Pro Wrestling Boom.
Podcast each, week he'll hear the latest news and analysis
from me and my team at pro wrestling Dot net
along with other pro wrestling media. Members, plus The Pro
Wrestling Boom podcast features long form interviews with notable names

(51:24):
in the pro wrestling. Industry subscribe And, iTunes, Stitcher, downcast
and all your favorite secondary, apps or visit us directly
AT pw boom dot. Com once, again THAT'S Pw boom
dot com.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
All, right but we will move on here to uh
four for, three go, ahead four for three state to
name and where.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
You're calling from as managing, man.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Doing good, Call thanks for. Calling so uh what uh
what stood out to you from rot?

Speaker 5 (51:54):
Tonight?

Speaker 3 (51:56):
Yeah so.

Speaker 4 (51:58):
Where from Liv.

Speaker 12 (51:59):
Morgan i'm you, know every. Us this match With charlotte
was really really. Good AND i said before of every
every week now lately every since she's every Times Live,
morgan it's ON tv at this, point it's getting better
better than her ragin and it's really cool to. SEE i,
mean you, know from being part of The rious, squad

(52:20):
people thought that requires going to be the breakout star
of that, group but it looks like it's Becoming Lived
morgan and stuff because they've really, say you see something
to LIVE i just started With Live margan and then
both rechus is having really good, matches even though she
lost To, night but she was this good match up With.
Charlotte matching With eddiebody's JUST i don't, know she's like

(52:43):
like they just started reads pretty much like really Like,
morgan AND i KNOW i know everybody likes like like
Likes Ruby. RIOT i do, too but it stays like
that she's half the time that not even ON tv
rarely now lately and now it's just more about Lived.
Morgan SO i just found it.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Interesting rich any anything more on that. TOPIC i mean
we explored it quite a, bit but anything to add
to uh to What college just said.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
To, NO i Think kyle nailed. IT i think they
they're given live a lot of. Opportunities and WHEREAS I
i too thought That ruby was going to be the
person that kind of became the shining star out of that,
group it's not lost on me that much Like ricochet
And Cedric, alexander she's kind of getting pushed further and

(53:27):
further back and lives taking the. Opportunities and it doesn't
feel like that early Danea brooke push where it was
like what are y'all? Doing SO i, say keep going with.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
It it's it's tough to us thinking about this With
thorn And vink's victory Over rickochet And cedric, tonight it's
so hard to gauge whether somebody's catching, on like if
they're gaining any, traction because there's no there's not that
feedback from a crowd to kind of indicate to, you you,
Know Apollo cruz didn't benefit from from. That nobody who's

(53:59):
getting a push right. Now they have no idea if there,
work if it's, working you. KNOW i mean you can
go on social, media you can look at minute by minute.
Ratings it tells you a little, bit but it's connecting
with a crowd that tells you if you're becoming a.
Star and you, Know mandy doesn't have that right, now
If morgan doesn't have it right. Now you, Know ricoshet
And cedric on the rise and then you, know suddenly
now we got Vincn thorne getting a, win and you,

(54:21):
know hel would the crowd be reacting to The Viking?
Raiders would would a lot of the audience be annoyed
with the street profits and still remember The Viking raiders
as the baby faced team come at assess side or
would they be booing? Them how would The Viking raiders
be acting differently if they had a crowd that was
reacting differently than management or creative wanted them. To and
they're not getting that. Feedback it it's driving blind right

(54:41):
now without the. FANS i, mean you, know people talk
about what it's like to watch a show and how
tough that, is but as a wrestler once it's, like,
okay you know who you, are you know if you're
if You're Kevin, owens WELL i shouldn't use him becuse
they've done weird things with. Him but Like drew McIntyre
knows what he's who he's supposed to be right now
and he does. That, yeah you, know there's a lot
of wrestlers who just know who they are and they do.

(55:02):
That but for the wrestlers who, don't who haven't been
in front of a crowd with a push and, Live
morgan kind of qualifies now along With cedric And. Ricochet
should we be doing things different to get ourselves? Over
is what we're doing? Working they don't have that feedback right,
now and you, know some people see that as a
big negative to the, show and in in a way
it's it's got to be a big negative for wrestlers
who are just don't know if it's working or. Not you,

(55:24):
know it's like a stand up comedian doing a like
doing a live show in front of a live, audience
but like with earplugs and he didn't wear his contact
lenses where he can't see if the crowd or hear
if the crowd's reacting to his. Jokes he just has
to keep telling jokes with no idea what the cadence
should be and no idea if they're with him or,
not AND i already should be working to win them.
Over that's what the wrestler struggle is every, week AND i,

(55:46):
MEAN i respect that they're going through, this but it's
a bummer for those who are getting a push and
just haven't found their footing yet to not get that
feedback to help them adjust as they. Go and that's
why when fans get reintroduced at some, point it's gonna
be a really big deal for a lot of these
wrestlers getting, pushes including Liv morgan circling back to her.

Speaker 3 (56:06):
And to add on to that, Wave i've been thinking
about the effect of those first few, months first few
weeks fans coming back and how enthusiastic they'll just be
because they can see wrestling live, again, right and how
that might make an over adjustment on the other side of,
oh this guy's really, over this woman's really, over and
is really just the enthusiasm for wrestling as opposed to

(56:30):
reinforcing whatever preconceived notion might have been. There BECAUSE i
anticipate that being an issue. Too, HEY i don't know
What vinc, is BUT i do Know vinc is gonna
hear far more chances or see far. More i'm mixing senses,
now my, lord he's going to see far more chances
being wholes six to. Five we've seen it With Baron,
Corman we've seen it with every, tall big wrestler in

(56:52):
the history of. Wrestling With vincent, command but he's going
to get those. Chances and is it going to be
The is it the? Crowd, well they're too, Excited they're
not excited. Enough he's a perfect. Heel you know what
excuses are going to be made when it's a person
that they want to be where it is versus the
people who are going to kind of get lost on
the wayside under this is a false.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Positive, YEP i, NO i.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Agree it's one of the unexpected twists in watching professional
wrestling during this time with no. CROWDS i, mean we
just didn't know what we were in, for AND i
don't think the wrestlers. DID i don't think vinsc men did.
Either but you have reduced rosters and now you have
wrestlers who are being pushed for the first, time and
they don't even know how to, act you, know because
they don't have that that instant feedback.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Anyway, Yeah kyle back.

Speaker 12 (57:35):
Too, yeah it's, yeah it's this whole thing is PLAYED
wwi and this ENTIRE tewe world is on pause and
kind of crazy mode. Realized but, yeah so AND i think,
Too i'm kind of glad that that he's coming back
next week because it's, like, However win's de brea, case

(57:57):
it's gonna be A voss star if it is going
to Be. Shana BUT i just think that WHAT i
saw from, tonight from, her from in, that in that in,
that in that interview with, them it just felt, like,
YEAH i just felt she was just another wrestler and
pl people thought that she was going to be a.

Speaker 5 (58:15):
Killer she just Bite Becking bitch's neck.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
Months, ago and and now she's sitting down.

Speaker 12 (58:20):
Normally just taking everything, in not really just being another
person in the, roster and you, know and SO i
just about that fascinating and also just thought that beg
it's going to be there next week to see what
she says for what she.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
Does so, yeah that was it, great.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Great thanks gooding For. Mekle thanks for downloading today's. Show
take it to the next level with a V p.
Membership get shows like this The Way Killer Prossing, Podcast
Weight Killer Prossing Post, show and the P W torch
daily casts on our P W torch V p podcast
feed with ads and plugs removed from the shows for
a streamlined listening. Experience and also here the V p

(58:59):
exclusive shows THAT i host With Rich fan And Todd,
Martin everything With Rich fan And The fix With Todd
martin's SIGNATURE vip. Series that you're missing out without A vip,
Membership so GO vip here in twenty twenty two and
enjoy all the, benefits all the bonus content and the
ad free listening. Experience pw toors dot com slash GO.
VIP i think the, OH i just had two points to.

(59:23):
MAKE i forgot the first. One i'll move to the second.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
One the other one my.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
COMPANY i want to give them credit for getting for
not talking About shanea biting people. Anymore they just sort,
OF i, think are acknowledging through not talking a lot
about it or at all about it, anymore that it's
not gonna be her defining trait and they're not going
to roll with, it and it probably, was you, know
done for shock, value and was a regrettable move because

(59:49):
it Just shane didn't need. That i'm not saying they
get a good grade for what they've done in absence
of that, gimmick BECAUSE i don't think Physic man and
company have quite figured her out. Yet it'd be nice
if they WATCHED nxt because they have a really good
example from pretty recently of how to get chain Of basler.
OVER i think so at least at LEAST i got

(01:00:10):
rid of.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
That oh.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Yeah the other Thing i'm gonna mention is ON, raw
when they Hyped Becky lynch, appearing the narrator said That
becky will confront the winner of money in the.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Bank now that is.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
Unknowable you know that that is the, plan, Right she's
gonna come, out but the narrator. Added the narrator, added
and this was very, odd and she will confront the
money in the bank winner and to leave her stunned and,
staggered and, like how does how does the narrator know?

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
THIS i, mean this is an.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
ARRIVAL i, mean you, know you don't know what's happening
in the, future and you shouldn't if you. Do you
shouldn't be spoiling it for us. Anyway so that was
a very weird choice of. WORDS i, mean who ever
wrote that doesn't get professional. WRESTLING i, mean you don't
say what's gonna happen before it, happens whether it's pre
taped or, not or planned or, not or you're just
trying to throw a literative superlet is out there to

(01:01:01):
try to get people. Excited you, know that's why they ask.
Questions those things are those scripts are written with you
know what Will becky? Say will she leave them staggered
and stunned or will she be left? SPEECHLESS i, mean
you can do something, stupid but at least with alliterations
and hype and, stuff but at least don't say something's
gonna happen that is unknowable within the narrative at this.
Point so that was a little. Thing but if you

(01:01:22):
want to follo up on either of, those rich, Kid.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
Yeah for that. ONE i took it as The Ron
burgundy the person read next week's cable preview instead of
the preview For raw and that that's not, good like you,
said You're the SECOND i heard, THAT i was, like,
wait this is, okay and it's, clear you, know when
you look at the title situation over On SmackDown that

(01:01:46):
unfortunately they don't exactly View bailey's title as the title
they care about right. Now so why would You that's
what the other thing that made me think, about why
would you make The SmackDown person they could just? Beat
and that's just there's so many things you do by
saying that out loud that really hurts everyone. Involved.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
Yep by the, WAY i want to sneak in a
mention here that tomorrow on The Blue Logo show on
The Wade Keller Pro wrestling, Podcast so search Wad keller
if you haven't subscribed to that. Yet it's Our Blue
Logo show that drops On Tuesday's thursdays with The best
of show on the. Weekend Sam roberts FROM wwe will
be on with me to Preview money in The. Bank
so we'll run down all six announced matches and look

(01:02:32):
at the, possibilities the pros and cons of different winners
and losers match, order the possibilities of THE Wwe headquarters,
format the Bron Bray Drew Seth Bailey tamena, matches and
The fatal four way for the tag. Titles so that
preview show coming up tomorrow on The Blue Logo. Show
if you have questions or thoughts that you want us

(01:02:55):
to discuss regarding the pay per, view we invite you
to email the Show Heller podcast AT Pw torch dot.
Com PERHAPS i will present your email To sam on
the show. Tomorrow all, right so let's go to another call.
Here if you want to give us a late call
here before we move on to the mail, bank you
can call us at two five. Eight excuse, me three
four seven two one five eight five five. Eight so,

(01:03:19):
again let me get that. Right three four seven two
one five eight five five.

Speaker 8 (01:03:23):
Eight longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to
learn some wrestling, history don't miss The Nineties pass cast
Every friday on THE Pw Torch Dalycast. Feed alex And
patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by

(01:03:44):
taking you through The torch.

Speaker 5 (01:03:45):
Issue from that very.

Speaker 8 (01:03:47):
Week follow news from THE wwf AND wcw and all
the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time
As The torch reported it thirty years. Ago that's the
Nineties pass cast Every friday on THE Pw.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Tour just daely cast.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Feed all right up next area code six one five
going state your name and where you're calling.

Speaker 4 (01:04:19):
From hey, guys It's SEAN cfd Versus, Firth. Tennessee how
do you guys.

Speaker 7 (01:04:23):
Doing i'm doing?

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
Great shohn good here from. You what do you Think
Sean rich get to talk to?

Speaker 4 (01:04:27):
You, WAIT i wanted to make you feel good. TODAY i,
was you, KNOW i kind of Lately i've been listening
To Conrad, been you, know with The has The Pocket
well many, podcasts but the one With Eric. DISHOFF i
was listening to one of. THEIRS i forget this one
they were talking, about but he was giving. Way he
was giving me.

Speaker 10 (01:04:45):
Props.

Speaker 4 (01:04:46):
Man he's, like he's, LIKE i can't Stand Dave, meltzer
but The Wade taylor and UH i thank.

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
YOU i think he.

Speaker 4 (01:04:52):
Said Mike johnson's the other one that he like respects
kind of the. Most or he'll like he's LIKE i
get ON Pw torch all the. Time that's WHERE i
get my. News i'm, like, MAN i gotta tell weight about.
This this is a boost his ego like a ton right,
Today SO i had TO i had to give you.
THAT i want to throw that out.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
There that was pretty.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
COOL i, thought, no.

Speaker 4 (01:05:10):
Were you guys bummed when during The gauntlet match that
had the, commercial The Dairy queen commercial When AJ's talking
about doing all this good, stuff and then it took
the surprise the way that he was COMING i was, like, oh,
man LIKE i wanted to be surprised that he's coming.
Out and then they had the commercial like with him
in there before he came out for The gauntlet, match
AND i was, like, well that kind of what do you?
GUYS i was, LIKE i just kind of threw me.

(01:05:31):
OFF i was, like, MAN i was AND i was
just so happy That ginger was not.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
It, oh thank you. LORD i was so happy about.
THAT i did not watch The dairy quin, commercial so
that is. Good AND i guess you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
COULD i don't know what the context, was BUT i
mean you can imagine they filmed, that you, know a
month and a half, ago and they had nothing to
do with him coming back on the. SHOW i don't
know if you would know that as a spoiler that
he's actually back or even.

Speaker 4 (01:05:57):
Alive, yeah BUT i didn't like the match only BECAUSE
i liked that they gave last years and stuff at
the beginning to kind of try to boost him up
a little. Bit but, AGAIN i know they're trying TO
i guess maybe avoid the. Heel you know a lot
of the, heels but you have during the, match you
Have guardzan in, theory both lose and weird kind of dumb,

(01:06:18):
ways AND i just, AGAIN i think they're, ruining you,
know Against lena didn't really talk too much other than
just the stuff in the, background but, again she's got
these guys that she's backing up and she's talking highly,
about and they keep losing it. Again it takes the
luster away from those, guys and at some point they
need to get some kind of wins or at least
boost them in some, way and just having them both lose,

(01:06:39):
AGAIN i just, thought kind, of what did you guys
think about? THAT i just thought that kind of lowers
them on the toe and pole even farther than what
they already have been.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
Lately, yeah, right true.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
Thoughts, YEAH i, thought you, know at this point Little
ngobal Novels us or whatever they're going to be known
as here is definitely further down the totem pole THAN
i thought they were going to. Be and the other
thing that's starting to become a little bit of a.
Frustration more than that is it's clear That Austin theory

(01:07:08):
is going to be the one that kind of tears
away and gets more screen time and more of the
chances because he's the quote unquote rookie of the. Group
he's the least a PERSON'S i Think mike McMahon might
have the, stats but a little better THAN i. Do
other than the folks who were there right when they
changed it FROM fcw TO, nxt he spent the least

(01:07:28):
amount of time in developmental before going to the main.
Roster and IT'S i just don't like the way that,
Looks and, yeah you're, right it's just not going to be.
Fun you have these, folks you're giving them the, ball
giving them opportunities go all the way or not necessarily
to world title, status but at least make them look.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
Respectable, lastly Dominating, titus that's, fine you, know Beating, shelton
With shelton getting a couple spots in at this, point that's.
Fine Protecting umberto with THE dq, FINISH i, mean and
then the storyline Being, umberto you, know is fighting through
and Catching angel And Austin theory by surprise because they

(01:08:10):
need a babyface to go through to face, styles you,
know making his return with umberto being a sympathetic figure
having surprised Both Austin theory And Angel cars are with.
WINS i get the, rationale you, KNOW i MEAN i
get the rationale for here's the story we want to,
tell or here's the point we're going to, begin and
here's where we're going to, end and how do we get.
THERE i think they did the least damage they could

(01:08:32):
do while getting. There AND i think that's one of
the criticism of THE wwe is in they're booking and
a point to pride with aw by the, way you,
know we don't DO dq, finishes we don't do. Countouts
that kind of thing is sometimes you, just you, know
let somebody beat somebody. Decisively and if you build up
credibility with your, wrestlers they and you tell a good
story with, them you should be able to absorb those

(01:08:53):
wrestlers should be able to absorb a loss within the
way that you tell your, stories which is just like in,
sports sometimes the best teams don't go. Undefeated it's all
how you frame, it it's all how you present. It
AND i thought that the biggest issue is just kind
of moving on so, quickly and it's sort of the
downside of the format of that, match The gauntlet match
in and of. Itself SO i don't, KNOW i, MEAN

(01:09:16):
i Guess I'm i'm slightly sympathetic to the challenges they,
faced even if in the END i think part of
what made it hard to make it work is the
larger way that they book and and don't sell, finishes
even going back to LIKE aj just going it was
no you, know big.

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
DEAL i. LOST i lost a match with no.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
Rules they've they've they've sort of diminished the idea that
wins and losses matter except when they want you to.
Care you don't have to wait for the Way Keller
Pro wrestling post show to find out WHAT i.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
Thought Of Monday Night raw And.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
SmackDown each, week you can check out my reports that
are updated live Throughout raw And SmackDown AT pw torch dot.
Com my written report will tell you what's happened in
detail in case you missed the, show and it will
also analyze key segments and give my random thoughts quips
on WHAT i am watching as it. Airs so check
it out Every monday night And Tuesday night at pewtorch dot.

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
Com that also applies to.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
WWEPAYPERVIEWS i cover those live at pw torch dot com
with a detailed written report with star, ratings and of
course you can find OTHER tv reports from other contributors
to pw torch such as nxt, Roh Impact, wrestling and.
More check it out pw torch dot com your first
stop FOR tv and pay per views written.

Speaker 3 (01:10:32):
Reports, anyway a, Shot i'm, oh go, ahead a? Shot,
OH i was gonna, say just to continue our earlier football,
Conversation it's like when you look at a quarterback and

(01:10:53):
you complain about their low third down conversion, rate but
when you look on first and second down they're constantly calling.
Draws it's like there's only so much that the actual
player in that situation you can do with the other
environmental factors have been decided for. Him AND i think
with a lot of these wrestlers and even a lot
of the stuff that they're writing, through if you already
know what the, baseline we're not going to care about certain,

(01:11:15):
things regardless of if it's logical or not to do,
so that undercuts a lot of those subsequent decisions being made.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
As far As Austin theory goes, TO i think they
should like establish if he just doesn't have a personality
and we just have to accept, that or if he,
does it's probably about time to start telling us about.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
Him he is on this show a. Lot they're leaning on.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
Him he's part of this heel faction that gets a
lot OF tv, time AND i get the sense they've
put less than fifteen seconds of thought into how they're
going to portray him and how they're going to frame.
Him AM i being too hard on?

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
Them?

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
Rich do you think?

Speaker 3 (01:11:50):
NO i told one of my, Buddies chris mate Lud
new shows a plot on The Deep. Dive when we
first went to an evolved show like four years, ago it's,
like this guy's going to be in THE. Wwe he
had the same body now as he did. Then it
was just he had unproven on his, tights which to
this day that's up there with. Irregardless if your Name's
Austin theory and you have unproven on your, tights that

(01:12:12):
someone's got to pull you ins inside and, say, hey
that doesn't mean what you think it. Does they have
to give him, something AND i thought they did by
giving Him zelina because he did a pretty good job
of being a heel in THE wwn series of shows
toward the end before he. Left but they're not they're
not seeing it that. Way they're making them into basically

(01:12:36):
set Early seth when he was in The shield in
terms of like they want him to be the one
that's not necessarily the wild man in the case Of,
seth but he's the one that's the most, Vicious AND
i don't think that's the way they should sell them
while also being the most.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
Arrogant AND i think you're giving them more credit on
both of those. COUNTS i don't know that they've sold
me on him being the most aggressive or the other
thing you said THAT i forgot because it didn't bring
to me as something they've established with, Him LIKE i,
DON'T i, MEAN i just. DON'T i don't know WHAT
i would tell someone and they, said, well what's the
deal with?

Speaker 3 (01:13:11):
Us in?

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
Theory like even even the anulcers don't seem to know
what to. SAY i, Mean philip, said he's a type
of young superstar you could imagine being champion, Someday like
you could look at a picture of him two months
ago and say, That but they should have more to work,
with and you, know like the dynamic of a faction
should include the interpersonal dynamic between different wrestlers and the

(01:13:32):
manager if they have, one and we don't get that.
Either it's just paper thin character. Development AND i just.
DON'T i, MEAN i don't know how many writers they
have left on, staff but what do they do all?
WEEK i, mean how do we not know after all
these weeks more about? Them and why CAN'T i, mean
it just isn't asking too much to have a little
more density and layering to the personalities and how they

(01:13:54):
relate to each other at this point and that's just not.
There And i'm not saying rush into teasing a, turn
but give them the freedom to express a personality or
figure something out for them to project if they don't
have that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):
Naturally, yeah and if you, look if folks are, interested
And i'll throw this on My twitter at Riche Underscore
fan WHEN i get up in the, morning BECAUSE i
Doubt i'll be able to do it. Tonight i'll put
up some examples of other, factions like they're taking a
lot of what they used to do in Lij Or
Los ngoba novels with When Les sombra Wasn't andrade and

(01:14:28):
they're they're kind of like making it. Horrible they're doing
really bad knockoffs of. It and if you look and
you don't speak a lick Of spanish or a lick At,
japanese they'll have vignettes or VTRs where there's a group of,
them eight to ten people and you get everyone's. Personality
you see who's the alpha in the room and not
that you, know like who's the. Boss everybody else isn't
necessarily going to be subservient to, them but they're all

(01:14:51):
having their personality shown and all having respect and why
they're together a mission. Statement and for this, group all
you need is don't even need to Watch New, JAPAN,
watchmlw Have zealina sit down and talk about each of
her clients and what they bring to her. Organization you
HAVE Usa. Network you've not seen one of these Like

(01:15:12):
queen to The south or any of these dramas that
you have that come on right after your, WELL i
Guess Modern family does. Now but, whatever there's so many
ways to do. This and like you, said with the,
writers if if you're gonna write and you're gonna try
to make some poor Man, shakespeare steal from better.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
People, yes or just have someone Speaking.

Speaker 3 (01:15:32):
Latin latin is always. Good nothing says pro wrestler like
dead languages at nine thirty at.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
Night, yes just that silence After shane has said. It
match the silence AFTER i just said.

Speaker 17 (01:15:45):
That I'm Kelly, wells host of the Seven star, podcast
the New Ongoing torch show covering the world Of New
Japan Pro. Wrestling we'll drive new episodes as major shows
and noteworthy events, dictate And I'm Chris.

Speaker 16 (01:16:05):
Lansdow join us as we cover the ever changing landscape
Of New japan as they navigate an era with.

Speaker 4 (01:16:10):
No lack of.

Speaker 3 (01:16:11):
Talent BUT i really need to create some news staves
you can stream.

Speaker 5 (01:16:15):
Then you seven STOP oncass now From Pro Wrestling Talk.

Speaker 4 (01:16:28):
Sean any follow, Up, YEAH i mean there are all good,
POINTS i, think and that's my only thing, is you,
know in the last month they just have it one
hardly at, all AND i just think that you have
to get at least a win somewhere in there to
kind of be somewhat. Relevant but that GRADE aw is
just KILLING. Wwe as far as the character, development they.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
Just crushed them in.

Speaker 4 (01:16:48):
THAT i, mean they just they developed their characters every,
week there's some kind of story behind, it and ww
just that doesn't really do anything other than a loudly
random promo here and. There BUT i was with you
guys on the first, segment you, know With, shana and
it's just what point did it? Third but it just
didn't do anything for me at. ALL i was sitting,
There i'm just, Like, okay The Viak, lounge they come,

(01:17:09):
out they couple The oski apps and you know says
whatever she's. Saying it is fun in the, moment but
it's just, like what is it really? Showing and Then
shana says there's a couple of lines and then they Kicked,
naya which was cool at LEAST i gotta look eat On,
Naya BUT i JUST i don't know what it's. SERVED
i don't know what they were even trying to do
with it other than, THAT i don't. Know it was
just a waste of ten minutes in my. Opinion SO

(01:17:30):
i was just kind of like, flabbergasted, thinking, okay trying
to build it, up but they did really nothing to
build up the match at. All and THEN i, mean
going back real quick to LIVE i won't harp on
that enough BECAUSE i got some ELSE i want to ask.
You but the Reason lives getting plusious because she looks.
Good BUT i, MEAN i know she's working, hard And
i'm again a fan of. Her i'm not trying to knock,

(01:17:52):
her Because i've, never you, know wanted to make it
sound like. THAT i think she's doing the best she
can with what she's, given and she's getting slowly better.
Better But Ruby wryt was clearly the better, option regardless
if you like or, not she was the better, option
and she should have been pushed. More But live looks
better and she's more, provocative and that's what The vince,
likes and that's why he's pushing. Her and that's pretty

(01:18:13):
much and the. Story but the one question to ask
you is what you thought of the three Profits Viking raider,
match because, AGAIN i did think it was a good.

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
Match the way when.

Speaker 4 (01:18:23):
You're talking about when The Viking raiders, ONE i was,
like oh, gosh they're doing exactly what they always do
and and and it's and that's WHAT i was kind
of hurt by IS i thought the match was, really really.
Good The Viking raiders are actually really.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
Good in the.

Speaker 4 (01:18:36):
RING i like what they. DO i, MEAN i get
excited by some of their. Matches it's JUST i don't
know where they're trying to go or THAT i just
don't want them to keep winning back and, forth AND i,
mean where do you think they're eventually trying to go
with these two? Teams because they're both talented teams and
they have good, Attributes but what do you think they're
going with?

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
It, WELL i mean you look at The Viking raiders
and the car, karaoke the the back to the promo this,
week which was weird because they just dropped any pretense
of being like characters and just sort of talked in
regular guy, voices which made all these other things with
the red light and the fog just seem like a,

(01:19:14):
work you, know like a gimmick that they.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
Just sort of decided to drop this.

Speaker 1 (01:19:18):
Week and they play like they wrestled the match and celebrated,
afterwards almost like there was a cheering crowd that they
were playing to a little. BIT i don't know who
they are or what they are or how we're supposed
to feel about. THEM i don't know what The Viking
rider gimmick. Is they've really never given us that backstory,
Either AND i, mean they're getting a push because they're,
available AND i like bringing up the history with Street

(01:19:39):
profits and The Viking raiders AND nxt and you know
that they you, know it's like two college rivals who
are now pros and and now they're they're they're battling
each other on a different field in a bigger. SETTING i,
mean you, know that's a story you can, tell and
they're telling, it AND i, MEAN i think that's the
best aspect of this. Feud but, RICH i get a

(01:20:01):
sense of who the straight profits are and how we're
supposed to feel about. Them but The Viking, RAIDERS i
don't think they know who they. Are they have a
gimmick because they're, big burly guys with beards and, so,
oh you guys look Like, vikings so we're gonna call,
you you, know The Viking. Raiders but beyond, THAT i
don't even think they know who they are or how

(01:20:21):
to carry. Themselves AND i thought this show was an
example of. That and the booking doesn't really support how
we're supposed to feel about them one way or the other.

Speaker 3 (01:20:28):
Either, Yeah and it's it's funny you mentioned the college
rivalry Because this is also the rare situation where the
two college rivals go pro and then wind up playing
in the same marina they did in college in terms
of being formula in highlighting, that mentioning, that and that
was really that was really interesting to, me and to

(01:20:51):
that end, too which kind of dovetails to what you were.
Saying for some, reason they didn't Have, bianca who's really
been the, impetus and them being more serious because they
really had been blowing off The Viking raiders the last,
month And tobianca kind of slapped them in the back
of the head and, said, well you guys have never
really beaten these, guys so let's straighten that. Out and

(01:21:13):
they you, know the match. ITSELF i liked. IT i
think The Viking raiders. Back you, know if you get a,
chance absolutely check out their stuff when they were War
machine And ring Of honor if you hadn't, already especially
Against Red, dragon because those matches were really, good and
you forget that because you've only seen this version of
them where somebody was Watching vikings and, said, hey this

(01:21:37):
is better than just calling them War machine or War,
raiders and they had to Keep viking experience as their
finisher because they you know WHAT i, mean the level
of things that are getting in their way before they
can just wrestle work so much against, them and it's
just it's.

Speaker 1 (01:21:53):
Frustrated yeah, yeah but yeah a good, match AND i
JUST i want to, know beyond THE nxt, rivalry How
i'm supposed to feel about these guys and who they.
Are and you know again that it plays into not
having crowd feedback, too and so they don't even know
if what they're doing is working in the way that
it's supposed, to which then translates to THE tv or

(01:22:16):
not knowing how we're supposed to feel because The raiders
don't even know how people are reacting to what they're,
doing and thus there's this whole feedback loop that's just
broken that you, know it's not important for established top
acts who know who they are and fans know who they,
are but it's IT'S i think it's vital for poorly
booked or ambiguously booked newer. Acts AND i think The

(01:22:37):
Viking raiders are new enough in that they've been kind
of bounced around in what they've been doing and how
they've been, framed and now they're very different with the
last three weeks than they ever had been. Before so
it's an example of the feedback loop breaking AND i
think hurting the product in ways that people would not have.
Forecast give yourself a reason to look. Forward go into

(01:23:00):
the mailbox each week with A Pw torch newsletter paper.
Copy subscription details AT pw torch dot com slash Paper.
Copy it's twelve pages every week packed with MY tv,
reports along with exclusive features such as my cover story
on the top story of the, week our pay per
view roundtable reviews from The torch, staff exclusive feature length
columns From Greg, Parks Rich, Fan Sean, Radikin Alan, coonahan

(01:23:23):
And Zach, Hadorn Torch talk, transcripts the latest news and.
MORE pw torch dot com slash Paper copy take a
break from screen time and settle in every week with
a megadosa wrestling news and. Analysis with A Pro Wrestling
Torch newsletter Paper copy edition in the year twenty twenty.
Two you can get a full year of home delivery

(01:23:44):
for just ninety nine, dollars or try us for an
eight week trial. SUBSCRIPTION pw torch dot com slash Paper
copy is showing back to you any anything else you
want to say thank.

Speaker 4 (01:23:58):
Us the last QUESTION i, had did you Think murphy
should have lost? Tonight that's the one match WHERE i
like that they build it ahead of, time you, know
the whole. Night BUT i that's kind of one of the.
MATCHES i don't know if you're with, me BUT i
wish they would do A dq and have set interfere
in a match like, that BECAUSE i DON'T i Think murphy,

(01:24:18):
There murphy's really, talented really really, good AND i think
a loss kind of hurts him a little. BIT i
mean against, again It's, Drew So i'm not saying it's
it's a bad wap, like, oh you can't lose To,
drew And drew should. Win if anybody's gonna, win it's. Good,
again it's gotta be. Him BUT i just BEEN i
would have rather had A dq. There what did you
guys think about? That and, again thank you guys for

(01:24:40):
everything you, do and thanks for taking my.

Speaker 2 (01:24:42):
Call as, Always Thanks, SEAN i always appreciate your.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
Calls, Yeah rich uh six minutes a lot of no
selling Of murphy's offense By. Drew it seemed like the
match was meant to Keep drew looking very strong and
not really Protect murphy.

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
At this stage the.

Speaker 3 (01:25:00):
Game is that the right MOVE i think for, now
given Where murphy started to where he, is it's he's
definitely sitting PRETTY i get what he was, saying AND
i get that he probably should get a little, more
BUT i think given he was in The dould rooms
and kind of that whole best kept secret, deal this is.

(01:25:21):
FINE i think him being the subordinate To seth and
even having a little backbroone when he talked To charlie
before the, match that's. Fine And drew needs to keep stacking.
Wins as long as he stacks these wins until the
fans gets back, there he's going to have that. Established
this is a bad dude and you don't want to
mess with. Him AND i just need that the longer

(01:25:43):
they keep that, going the better it's going to be For.
Drew and they can always do something where perhaps you,
know A murphy gets THE us title and then he's
the only one in the, congregation so to, speak that
has a, title and that would be another thing that
would be a neat. Situation he's always been to tamp With,
seth so it's not like he's necessarily suffering. Completely it's

(01:26:05):
JUST i think it's just not his. Season AND i would.

Speaker 1 (01:26:09):
Follow up BECAUSE i Think murphy's worth it by finding
a way to you, know get him rev him up
again after. This and the way to make the loss
To drew not seeing that big of a deal and
in fact make drewcy of all the more impressive is
t Have murphy do well as a heel against some
babyfaces who you can spare.

Speaker 2 (01:26:27):
Him looking good.

Speaker 1 (01:26:28):
Against and they don't have a super deep roster in
that in that, way and if the other guys aren't,
established it can just demean the other. Guys, oh the
guy who got squashed By drew just lost to this
guy just lost to, him and that can work against.

Speaker 2 (01:26:42):
You but, YEAH i don't.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
Know if they had a deeper, roster they might be
able to pull that off. Better And i'm not exactly
sure who that any person would be like if they,
had you, Know i'm trying to think, Like russev has a, babyface,
strong and he was doing his own thing off to the,
side and Then murphy came in and was enraged and
wanted to make a, point you, know and he was
able to Beat. Russev now you're, like, okay you, know

(01:27:08):
people know who rusev is he's, tough And murphy just beat.
Him So murphy's not a. Scrub but they just don't
have that those guys on the roster to do that.
With they're just such a big drop off between the
people who really get pushed and then those who are
just sort, of you, know fifty to fifty booking Even
stephen and not really ever a threat to the world.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
Title so's it's tough with the.

Speaker 1 (01:27:27):
Structure it's one of the weaknesses of three way roster
split and physic men's approach to. Booking it's one of
the areas where his, book his approach to booking doesn't
afford them the opportunity to allow somebody Like murphy to
recover from a loss like this and be rebuilt a little.
Bit they have to find other ways to do, it
BUT i THINK i think they will rich, it just
it isn't his season for. That he is talented, enough

(01:27:50):
and he's getting the spotlight in a way THAT i
think he would have been really happy about if you
told him this is happening six months.

Speaker 3 (01:27:56):
Ago, Yeah AND i think Of zinc AND i think
of how if they, had let, Say ricoshet And Cedric
cook for another couple of, weeks even a couple of.
Months fans eventually come. Back you could break them up,
again and if you're not looking to push. Them you
now have had established guys for a little, bit and

(01:28:19):
you get some more, wins and the fans, see you,
know they see someone Like murphy beat one of those
guys that looks better than oh, well those guys just
lost on you, know lost to Vinc.

Speaker 5 (01:28:33):
And you, KNOW i think about The.

Speaker 3 (01:28:36):
Gauntlet you have The Cruiseway classic going on ON nxt
And tozaua.

Speaker 5 (01:28:41):
Is a jobber on raw and what does that say
about your title?

Speaker 3 (01:28:45):
There and so they don't want to do that either
where you put him in the situation where he's beating
guys who later get proven to be even though they
looked one way On, raw they look completely different on
a those.

Speaker 18 (01:28:57):
Show are you a fan OF aw looking to sit,
back relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who
share your? Passion do you want to be topped off
the ledge after a segment that has you wondering what
the heck are they? Thinking do you want to join

(01:29:19):
a discussion on WHAT aw is doing right and what
they could do to?

Speaker 5 (01:29:22):
Improve then join, Me joel and.

Speaker 18 (01:29:25):
Me greg for The all of The Conversation club Every
friday on THE pw Torch Live. Cast fee search Pw
torch in your podcast app and subscribe to Pw Torchdaily
cast or stream our shows directly from pw torch dot.
Com find full details on THE Pw torchdailycast lineup at
pw torchdailycast dot.

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
Com all, right let's pivot to The if you are
listening live to our, stream want to contribute to, that
the email Is Wade Keller podcast at pw torch dot.

(01:30:06):
Com that's also where you can email the show tomorrow
when we Preview money in The. Bank so if you're
listening to us on delay On tuesday morning after downloading the,
show thank you for, that and you can still email
us in time for the recording of The Blue Brand
Show tuesday With Sam roberts Previewing money of The. Bank
so feel free to respond to anything that we said

(01:30:26):
on today's show or ask about other aspects Of money
in The. Bank all, Right first, Up devin In, Nashville, tennessee.
TODATE i haven't minded the empty arena, shows but The
DOTO b shows are starting to wear me. Down more
and more of these shows feel Like vince McMahon one
on one and less like the exciting Shows Paul hayman
was building at the end of last. Year every single

(01:30:47):
proma by money in The bank participants sounded the. Same
it was some combination of, opportunity most unique money in
the bank and the risk is worth the. Reward ricochet
And Cedric alexander once again lost a match to a
bigger bulk of your white guy than a Bodies vince's
prototypical Body Live morgan likely got more offense Against Charlotte
flair Than vince will Let sharai get ON nxt unless

(01:31:07):
he is still hands off fingers. Crushed, overall the show feels,
stale predictable in. Corporate if this is what we can
expect From do TO b during, quarantine THEN i will
continue to PREFER, aw even WHEN aw is mostly squash.
Matches by the, way that is a, feature not a.
Flaw squash matches are. Good don't define them as. Bad they're,
quick they're, short it's a way to establish, finishers and

(01:31:29):
the focus can be entirely on one guy and it
breaks up with the monotony of the pressure to at
fifty to fifty.

Speaker 2 (01:31:34):
Booking squash matches.

Speaker 1 (01:31:35):
Are not a bad, thing and they are, enjoyable so
allow yourself to enjoy. Them so that's my raw ross
speech for Those i've been advocating for them. Forever you
are allowed to enjoy. Them they are not a bad.

Speaker 2 (01:31:50):
Thing they are not.

Speaker 1 (01:31:50):
Filler they serve a vital purpose in professional, wrestling AND
i THINK aw is utilizing them well under difficult. Circumstances,
Yeah ricochet And cedric losing To thorn And, vink AND
i Mean vink debuted by Jobbing. Shane thorn just been
hovering around at the bottom of the bottom of the

(01:32:11):
card for a. While and if the idea Was ricochet
And cedric are this hot young team to keep an eye,
on they already kind of stumbled once in that, regard
AND i thought this was a setback that wasn't worth.
IT i know they're working, with you, know a skeleton.
Crew they're trying to get new guys. Over for some,
people that's a. FLAW i see that as a feature
to help keep things actually. Fresher for, ME i DON'T

(01:32:33):
i think THE i think rob was getting stale before
the empty arenas with too much Of seth And Kevin
owens and The Viking raiders and aop and it was
just too much of that and against the same. PEOPLE
i like all of, them but they were just recycling
themselves against each other so. Often and that's part of
the price you pay for having split the roster three

(01:32:55):
different ways and having three hours on rod to fill
Every monday. Night But rickashet And cedric should still be
winning squash matches speaking of those like that should be
how they're establishing their, brand or they should Have they
should this week be moving into a new chapter where
they're beating people who are more competitive and putting up
more of a. Fight this is not the time to
sacrifice them To Vincoln, thorne, who with all due, respect

(01:33:16):
just they're not ready to be pushed as a top.
TEAM i, mean and if they, Are Vincan thorne should
be winning squash matches for a month to establish their
good Before rikoshet And seedbric lose to.

Speaker 2 (01:33:30):
Them SO i didn't like this at.

Speaker 1 (01:33:31):
ALL i don't know if it's you, Know payman doing
the best he can with a really limited crew to work,
with try to create new stars or. What but RICH
i thought this was just the epitome of kind of
fifty to fifty booking brought down to the level of
a new act and a totally new, act just offsetting
any momentum either of them might have.

Speaker 3 (01:33:52):
Had, yeah it's kind of Robbing peter to Pay paul
in terms of each of their pushes not doing much
to help them both in the long. Run and this
short term isn't really going to be what you think
it is anyway without the fans to reinforce or, record.

Speaker 2 (01:34:09):
Of, course correct what you.

Speaker 8 (01:34:10):
NEED i.

Speaker 3 (01:34:13):
Just feel like with the closing OF, xfl we're going
to have more of these conversations in the next few
months Because vince has time to focus on just this,
now and football whenever that comes, back is going to
be the big thing that we have to deal. With
and with the way these shows have, gone BOTH aw AND,
wwe the differences have made it easier to. Watch BUT

(01:34:35):
i Think.

Speaker 5 (01:34:38):
I've said this a lot ABOUT.

Speaker 3 (01:34:39):
Aw they suffer from the sins of thirty plus years
Of vince McMahon in terms of some of the way
people view, things and the sooner they can reteach what
they're doing over on their, end the better it'll, be
because the people will see it as different instead of,
wrong if that makes.

Speaker 2 (01:34:56):
Sense, yeah, NO i agree, that and that is a
that is an uphill battle FOR.

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):
Aw there's there's so much about What Vincent mann has
done to sort of indoctrinate people into thinking that's the
way things are done and that and in a way
it's also an advantage FOR aw, THOUGH i, MEAN i you,
know it's, weird BUT aaw doing things differently can and
doing things in certain ways better because they're aware Of

(01:35:23):
vince's weaknesses or they just are learning from the dozens
of other really really really successful wrestling promoters over the
past forty fifty years and. Beyond there's so many different
ways to present professional. Wrestling there's not just one. Way
and you, know the idea That vince's way is the
best because he was the last man standing is ignoring

(01:35:44):
so many other factors that played into. It And i'm
NOT i don't want to take away From Vincent mann's,
success but there's something about As cable's, expanding and you're
the guy based In New York city and you have
the ambition because you're that right, age having taken over
from your, father to be ambitious enough to really want
to make a splash and make a name for yourself
and oh, Yeah Vern gania just helped create this biggest

(01:36:07):
baby face attraction of all time and Whole cogan that
you're able to hire away Because vern doesn't want to
give HIM t shirt. MONEY i, MEAN i, Mean i'm
slightly oversimplifying, it but my, god there's so many things
that worked in Hysic man's favor in just including just
friendships because of his placement in The New york market
and that. Advantage so there there are Things vince has

(01:36:28):
done really, well but there are also things he does
That god in the way of him doing even. Better
and it's learning what those things are and how to
avoid them that is WHERE aew can be really. Strong
and it's also WHERE aw viewers will benefit because they'll
see things being done differently and they meant a thing
too hard about why they like it better or why
it's different in working with, them but it will and
it'll HELP aw stay. Fresh and that's one of the

(01:36:49):
THINGS nxt has had going for it Is vince's hand
off approach led to the show looking and feeling, different the,
booking the, presentation the way wrestlers, spoke the way matches we're,
wrestled and aw is is an extension AND i think
an amplification of. That we're about to go to a commercial.

(01:37:10):
Break why let's seny commercial breaks when you can GO
vip and experience our shows with the ads and plugs.
Removed pw torch dot com slash GO. Vip that's pw
torch dot com slash go vip for full, details or
go To Patreon patreon dot com slash Pw torch vip
ratestart as low as four dollars in ninety nine cents
to remove the ads and plugs Through. Patreon FULL vip

(01:37:31):
membership starts at nine dollars in ninety nine cents to
treat yourself to a, streamlined ad and plug free listening
experience with A vip Or patreon.

Speaker 2 (01:37:39):
Membership Rich, also.

Speaker 1 (01:37:43):
Just the the, PROMOS i mean What devin, SAID i, mean,
yeah it just was way too many wrestlers saying too
many of the same talking points to the point of almost.

Speaker 2 (01:37:50):
Parody.

Speaker 3 (01:37:50):
Tonight, yeah everyone's on script, there no one's trying to mess.
Up they're just, saying you, Know i'm, here SO i
don't get fined level discourse when they're doing these promos
and that's. Sad and it's again When i'm WATCHING aw
AND i don't want to be that person Whenever i'm

(01:38:12):
on here with, you BECAUSE i don't want it to
be WELL aw. Does but it's clear you don't need
thirty seven. Writers you just need wrestlers who either have
a clear idea of who they, are where they're, going
what their story, is what their journey is supposed to,
be and management that, encourages develops and guides them away

(01:38:34):
from the lesser angels that might be easy, temptations like
using overabundance of foul, language saying some of those dead
words that will kill a conversation when you're over. There
just those sorts of quick fixes to a long term
issue as opposed to just not trust in.

Speaker 5 (01:38:56):
Your people will do their. JOB i, MEAN i gotta
here working.

Speaker 3 (01:39:01):
HERE i don't know if it's been clear Whenever wade's
different co hosts representing The towurds come on. Here but
it's not like we get scripts or anything like. That
when we have. Disagreements we have. Disagreements when we, talk we.
TALK i deviate into the woods a, lot And wade
kind of brings me back to, civilization like it's The
the M Night Shaman village. Movie sorry IF i spoiled

(01:39:21):
that for, Someone oh, god now that, okay never mind.

Speaker 2 (01:39:25):
Focus uh so that didn't spoil. Anything?

Speaker 5 (01:39:28):
Yeah what would want to?

Speaker 3 (01:39:30):
Work?

Speaker 2 (01:39:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:39:31):
Yeah what place would you want to? Work? Though that's my.
Point where you're you're there is no, lead there's no
avenue for you to merge in the. Traffic you either
do it at mile marker three or you might as
well just get out of the car and just walk.

Speaker 2 (01:39:46):
With raw and back.

Speaker 1 (01:39:47):
Down viewership plummeting over the last three to four, minutes
and it's. PLUMBING i have a social experiment For vincent
matter or it's an experiment For Vincick matt unscript one
of your, shows and AND i talked about. THIS i
talked about other things at, length BUT i didn't say.
This AND i WISH i had. Now on last night's
Weight keller hotline FOR vip members and in the ass

(01:40:08):
The editor, feature somebody, said you know, what what can they?

Speaker 2 (01:40:11):
Do you, know because this isn't.

Speaker 1 (01:40:13):
Working you, Know viewership is declining under one point nine
million viewers for For SmackDown On friday. SHOW i, mean
it just, keeps it just keeps getting. Worse the Actual
the actual average with the final numbers was one point
eight eight five. Million the overnight preliminary numbers had it
just over one point nine as an, average but the
actual final number dip below one point, nine a scary low.

Speaker 2 (01:40:36):
Number for a broadcast first run show for overall. Audience
and you know they've they've.

Speaker 1 (01:40:42):
Got they went From march thirteenth to one point five
to nine rating to a one point two to four
rating On SmackDown Mike SmackDown on scripted AND i talked
in detail about. It it's not copying THE Wa, Power
it's not copying. Anything it's just doing what a lot
of promoters did when they had to run in a
studio because it made the most sense to do it that.
Way have that, Backdrop have the announcers stand at a,

(01:41:05):
podium you can social space. It have the wrestlers come
out and have them freestyle and interact with each other
like they do in the modern era AND Wa power
and like they did on most pro wrestling shows for,
decades and change up the. Format BUT i would be
curious to know how viewership would change if wrestlers were
put out there to sink or swim and if fans

(01:41:25):
kind of new on the, internet, hey ww's actually gone
unscripted and they get bullet points that kind of you,
know but they got to explore their characters and talk.
FREELY i BET i would bet that viewership would go.
UP i bet that critical acclaim for the show would go.
UP i think people would see it as not this
antiseptic show that seems overly corporate and. Scripted BUT i

(01:41:46):
put up with it when there's a big crowd because
they had. Energy now you subtract the, crowd and Now
i'm not putting up with.

Speaker 5 (01:41:51):
It for some.

Speaker 1 (01:41:52):
People that is the deal breaker bring them back in
bye by not overtly selling, it but making it pretty
apparent whether people think about it in an actual sense
or they just experience a different show and like. It
let wrestlers go out there In saint grist women on
their own without, scripting AND i think this show could
be one of the breaking points where you, go, yeah
we got to do, that because the cost benefit ratio

(01:42:15):
of having everyone spew the phrase of the, week the
risk is worth a. Reward, YES i get wanting to
drive that. Home so that's what people are thinking. ABOUT
i understand the rationale for doing, it but the negative
is so overwhelming the positive benefits of trying to drill
something home like that at this point that the show
feels inauthentic in corporate and scripted and plastic and, rehearsed
and it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:42:36):
Working and they have.

Speaker 1 (01:42:37):
Less to lose and more to gain at this point
than ever because because of the situation that they're, In
so now's the time to. EXPERIMENT i, Mean vince went
his back against the wall Against nitro When nitro is
winning in the, ratings that's When vince let go of
some things and tried some other. Things and this is
a different kind of competition that's got him. Down but

(01:42:58):
for him to not be, down AND i think he's
got to take a similar approach and be willing like
he did in the emergence Of Stone Cold Steve austin
and The Attitude, era to break away from a lot
of the things that he was pretty sure were the
right thing to do for a very long time leading
up to that moment in. Time AND i think we're
at that moment in time. Now can a guy in
his mid seventies make that? Decision will? HE i doubt,

(01:43:19):
it But i'm not ruling it.

Speaker 5 (01:43:20):
Out the one thing THAT i wanted to MAKE i
had made a little note to.

Speaker 3 (01:43:25):
Myself the one THING i would, say especially with the contract,
STUFF i know that has been mentioned at nauseum as
far as, nervousness. Etc WITH, fnce if you look at THE,
nfl who's the second biggest contract recipient From Fox fox
AND nfl thought would be a good idea for ratings
On saturday to replay Super bowl fifty four And Super

(01:43:46):
bowl fifty, four for those who weren't, aware was the
most watch or second most watched Super bowl ever and
in the overnights it had five hundred thousand. Viewers it
was a, failure and it wasn't because it wasn't because
THE nfl, stink says a, property it's people have seen it,
before so you know the. Ending and even though it

(01:44:07):
was one of the most dramatic Super bowls in recent,
memory it isn't new. Content and so if you're selling new,
content if that sell it as something you haven't done.
Before so that's, why To wade's, point do this unscripted
worst case. Scenario you're showing them on a weekly basis
where we're doing whatever we can to make sure we're
being good faith partners to you and we're trying to

(01:44:29):
reinvent stuff as opposed to you doing the same thing
over and over and expecting a different.

Speaker 2 (01:44:34):
Insult, yep, Yep well a good, example good.

Speaker 19 (01:44:37):
Example I'm Kelly, wells host OF Pwt TALKS, nxt the
longest RUNNING nxt Podcast. Anywhere join me along With Nate,
Limberg Bruce, Lee hazelwood and special guests live Every tuesday,
night just minutes AFTER, nxt where we cover the, good the,

(01:44:59):
bad and the ugly on the way to becoming a
star IN. Wwe check us out live on YouTube or
stream later wherever you get your.

Speaker 7 (01:45:06):
Podcasts all, Right hector From chicago is up.

Speaker 1 (01:45:22):
NEXT aj winning the money in the bank briefcase and
going into a feud With black would be, interesting especially
since you can Put black over without HURTING.

Speaker 2 (01:45:29):
Aj he can just catch you In andrew and. Win
then you Have drew who wants to win it.

Speaker 1 (01:45:32):
Back WHILE i also have Inserted Alistair black into the
main event picture because he just came off going OVER
aj before the cash. In also enjoyed The Street, Province
Viking Raiders match RESTAUR osbnd to this, point But i'm
excited For money in The. Bank is the promo From
black talking ABOUT aj and being In money in The.
Bank it does seem like it is they're setting the

(01:45:53):
stage For black to be elevated into a feud WITH
aj After money in The bank.

Speaker 2 (01:45:59):
Regardles so if he, wins AND.

Speaker 1 (01:46:02):
I Mean i'm ASSUMING aj, wins heels, win and especially
when there's a babyface champ on your brand and all.
That but but it does seem like there's the stages
set For black to emerge at a higher place And
i'll watch a full Fledged Alistair BLACK aj styles.

Speaker 5 (01:46:19):
View, yeah that would be. Fun that'd be really.

Speaker 3 (01:46:21):
Fun AND i THINK aj is at the age now
where he needs someone to generate a little bit more
movement for. Him and While black is the bigger, WRESTLER
i think he can do that AND aj wouldn't have
to worry about being so dynamic with his move.

Speaker 2 (01:46:35):
Set, yeah, yeah good.

Speaker 1 (01:46:37):
Point all right up, Next MARK vip member From massachusetts
SAYS i just watched Liversus flair and although there isn't
a Bigger Live morgan fan than, me the biased commentary
For Live morgan was. Absurd for, example commentary Like i've
never Seen charlotte in this much travel during the match
is condescending to the. AUDIENCE i may have been born,
yesterday BUT i wasn't born. TODAY i know there is
a push happening For, live but don't insult my. INTELLIGENCE

(01:47:00):
i know the commentators can do. Better that's ALL i.
Have keep up the good. Work, yeah when announcers get heavy,
HANDED i think fans resent. It you, know it's you,
Know pipeon's aaring, superstar Seam. Pump, no don't say that
that that makes it seem like you're now marketing something
THAT i think people want to think you're running from
and are scared of and are still shell shocked. From

(01:47:20):
and let us Experience live without the, announcers you, know
hard selling. It like if you haven't, noticed we're pushing,
her let fans discover that on their own watching the.

Speaker 2 (01:47:29):
MATCH i get his, Point, Richard.

Speaker 3 (01:47:32):
Yeah it's boss.

Speaker 12 (01:47:33):
Time.

Speaker 4 (01:47:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:47:35):
Yeah or even when we were talking earlier About austin, Theory,
hey he's you mentioned in one way you think in
your world of language that this is a good, thing but,
hey this guy's had three shots to get into this
money in the bank and he's somehow he's back in. It.
Again all, right that's the red. Flag, yeah go, Ahead oh, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:47:57):
No yeah it, is it is all? Right, WELL i
think wrap up here With zach And.

Speaker 1 (01:48:02):
Texas an Exasperated zack In, texas he, SAYS i THINK
wwe is just screwing with me at this. Point first
they inexplicably Install charlotte AS Nxt Women's. Champion then they
have her appear on Both RON nxt for good. REASON
i think he meant no good, reason BUT i could be.
Wrong and now they're going to give us The Charlotte
live feud they should have done in the first. PLACE
i guess they're not really giving us a feud seeing

(01:48:23):
us how lived half clean in the.

Speaker 2 (01:48:25):
Middle what's the?

Speaker 1 (01:48:26):
Deal they can't get out of their own way when
it comes To. Charlotte it's ironic that they ran the
ad for The Mandy Rose Sounya devo match prior To charlotte's.
Promo there's some proof that a good secondary women's feud
can be. Done charlotte doesn't have to be perpetually in
the title. PICTURE a good secondary feud isn't beneath. Her
now what little Momentum live had is. Gone for what

(01:48:46):
it's not Like charlotte needed momentum for her to rip
Through eosharai On wednesday, night well a lot of.

Speaker 2 (01:48:52):
Times. Rich the answer to WHY ww does what they
do is because they GOT tv time to.

Speaker 1 (01:48:56):
Fill and they're sitting, around especially in this time with
a scale and crewe and trying to figure, out how
do we get through this? Week how do we get
through the next two or three. Weeks they're doing things
differently than they would be if they had full use
of the full crew and if they had crowds reacting to,

(01:49:18):
Things SO i think that plays into. It i'm not
as down on what they did With live As zach.
Is i'm not exasperated by.

Speaker 5 (01:49:25):
It but.

Speaker 2 (01:49:27):
You, KNOW i see why they.

Speaker 1 (01:49:29):
Don't but you, KNOW i, Mean mandy And sonia's is
certainly a long term story arc THAT i think has
worked out better than anything on the secondary level WITH.

Speaker 3 (01:49:38):
Raw, YEAH i agree with, that AND i also think
that With live you also have to realize that while
that is true that she is getting That Golden child
kind of treatment and all the other fun stuff ABOUT
raw in, general you also have to appreciate the fact
that we're not being subjected to whoever would have been

(01:49:59):
the replacement For Seth rollin's wrestling five times in a
night or any of those sorts of, situations because that's
WHAT i was waiting, for is that next step.

Speaker 2 (01:50:07):
Of oh what Is Seth rollins going to?

Speaker 3 (01:50:09):
Do the only way he gets his Shot andrew McIntyre
is if every member of his congregation wins in their challenge. Matches,
yeah and that's that you don't you don't need, that you.
Know and also just be glad for the for the
for the.

Speaker 5 (01:50:24):
Emailer just be.

Speaker 3 (01:50:24):
Glad we're not back in that world with Where vince
didn't like commercials and commercial breaks and every match had
to be like seventy two. Seconds that was so weird
because oh, man that would be that would be a
journey right now with empty arena like seventies you, know
a quick pen and now you're just looking at each
other for ten minutes and you're begging for that commercial.

Speaker 2 (01:50:45):
Break, yes, yep.

Speaker 1 (01:50:50):
Thanks for downloading today's. Show take it to the next
level with A vip. Membership get shows like This The
Way Keller Prosing, Podcast Weaight Keller Prossing Post, show and
The Pow You torched daily casts on OUR Pw TORCH
vip podcast feed with ads and plugs removed from the
shows for a streamlined listening, experience and also hear THE
vip exclusive shows THAT i host With Rich fan And Todd,

(01:51:10):
Martin everything With Rich fan And The fix With Todd
martin SIGNATURE vip series that you're missing out without A vip,
Membership so go vip here in twenty twenty two and
enjoy all the, benefits all the bonus content and the
ad free listening. Experience pw torch dot com slash GO.

Speaker 2 (01:51:26):
Vip all, Right i'm.

Speaker 1 (01:51:34):
Gonna sneak one more in Because hoavier who called, earlier
followed up and he goes in the promo For, becky
did they say she'll be confronting the money in the bank?
Winner if, so did they just spoil that a spackdown
woman won't be winning since the winner can only challenge
for their brand's. CHAMPIONSHIP i think they did say, That,
rich AND i think it might, Be, uh it might.

Speaker 2 (01:51:54):
Be it might have been a.

Speaker 1 (01:51:55):
SPOILER i mean inasmuch as it's a. Spoiler IF i,
mean do you think Car Meller Dana broker going to?
Win you, KNOW i mean probably. NOT i guess you
could imagine Maybe lacy winning and still could because she
would use that as an excuse to get.

Speaker 2 (01:52:07):
Back in the title picture With. Bailey BUT i think
most people.

Speaker 1 (01:52:11):
Think shane is, winning AND i think that tilted the
betting odds a little more in that in that.

Speaker 3 (01:52:17):
Direction. Yeah AND i was also thinking of when they
did the last draft and they spoiled it because whomever
gave the notes to the website gave it in the
order basically of the selection and then the very and the.
Thing it's the fun sad thing THAT i found about
it was in the middle of, IT i think towards

(01:52:39):
in the middle of, it toward the, end they realized
it and so they pulled it and put it back.
Up but people kept the screen shots because the internet's,
forever and they still followed that. Script. Yep AND i, say,
okay you added one or two people in, between but
it's still the same people went where you had them
listed on this and and that sort of. Thing when

(01:53:01):
you have thirty. WRITERS i have to shake my head
because how did that make it past quality? Assurance where
was quality? Assurance who's checking, this who's editing?

Speaker 1 (01:53:11):
THIS i, agree it's inexcusable. Sloppiness and we will now
see if if they're self aware and self conscious of
it or like.

Speaker 2 (01:53:22):
Whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:53:24):
Whatever we're FILLING tv time and mistakes happen and we're
just gonna go about our.

Speaker 2 (01:53:28):
Business if somebody stops watching because of, that you, know
what are we going to? Do but, YEAH i. DIDN'T
i hadn't even.

Speaker 1 (01:53:34):
Thought about, that which is weird because, YEAH i, mean
it's not a raw match where the winner faces a row.
Champions it's three raw three SmackDown and it could go
two different. Directions all, Right, rich tell people more about
your contributions TO Pw torch on the podcast side of
things and how they can follow you on social.

Speaker 3 (01:53:52):
Media, sure, Pressure, Pressure, Pressure, Well, FIRST i do THE
Pw Torch daily cast On, saturdays The Deep Dive Rich.
FAN i spend an, hour sometimes, longer talking with my
co host about a subject one subject every. Week the
last few, Weeks i've alternated between independent WRESTLERS i really

(01:54:12):
have enjoyed in the past year interviewing them talking about
their three favorite matches influences on their, career and then
having a fan of theirs follow up with me a
conversation on those matches and interactions with. Them so not
only do you get that person's, perspective but you get
folks who have seen them on their way. Up and then,
also most Recently i've Had Will cooling on also Of

(01:54:33):
The torch to talk. About we do a challenge series
Where i'll watch something he hasn't seen. Before now he's
returned the favor and he's Watching Beyond, wrestling WHICH i
cover With Sean radikin For The. Torch During radeck And,
worldwide which is Typically sean leads the, show we do
a lot of independent, wrestling international, wrestling, media video game,

(01:54:54):
reviews whatever toots our, fancy and that will be a,
lot especially during this current situation, nationally where we're going
to be reviewing older matches that you might have, missed
such As bola.

Speaker 2 (01:55:07):
Twenty Eighteen bola twenty. Nineteen interview.

Speaker 3 (01:55:09):
Series that, way while you're, home if you want to
watch some wrestling that involves, people or you want to
hear some really good, interviews you have that opportunity. There,
FINALLY i have the privilege of working With Travis bryant
And Cam hawkins on The East Coast. Cast trav And
cam do The East Coast Cast free edition for listeners
from six point Thirty eastern until eight, pm and Then

(01:55:32):
travis AND i take over FROM vip overnight with, emails
call voicemails and tweets where we discuss. Politics it's NOT
i will reiterate This East coast cast is not mini baned.
Friendly So i'm going to expand that to the pandemic.
Here it's not living room. Friendly maybe you have Your

(01:55:53):
bluetooth head set. On maybe you go into the den
of the. Foyer don't have it where the kids are
doing kart somewhere in the house because we.

Speaker 5 (01:56:01):
All have just given up on that. Part they're just
Doing they run them. Up they own the house.

Speaker 3 (01:56:05):
Now and as, always if you ever have any ideas for,
shows any comments about my, appearances or any of the towards,
shows feel free to contact me On twitter At Rich
underscore fan F a n N. A.

Speaker 7 (01:56:17):
Rich thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:56:18):
Blast having me on as always and we'll talk to
you soon and here for you Even Sue, perfect thanks
way for having.

Speaker 3 (01:56:25):
Me yup you.

Speaker 1 (01:56:25):
BET i invite you to email the show with feedback

(01:57:00):
or questions or. Comments that email address Is Wadekeller podcast
at petwtorch dot. Com That's Wadekeller podcast at pw toorch dot.
Com also welcome your feedback On. Twitter even follow us
On twitter at pw torch and follow me at The.
Wadekeller that's AT Pw torch and at The.

Speaker 16 (01:57:18):
Wadekeller searching for more great pro wrestling, talk then join
Me Jason powell host them the three Weekly Pro Wrestling Boom.
Podcast each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis
from me and my team At Pro wrestling dot need
along with other pro wrestling media. Members, plus The Pro
Wrestling Boom podcast features long form interviews with notable names

(01:57:38):
in the pro wrestling. Industry subscribe And, iTunes, Stitcher, downcast
and all your favorite secondary, apps or visit us directly
AT pw boom dot. Com once, again THAT'S pw boom dot.

Speaker 2 (01:57:49):
Com thanks for listening to our.

Speaker 1 (01:57:52):
Podcast did you know we also have a website pw
torch dot. Com daily news, updates, editorials and my LIVE
tv cover Covering, Raw dynamite And SmackDown and my live
pay per view coverage FOR wwe AND. Aew create a
tab or bookmark make it a daily. Stop visit us
throughout the day every day to keep up on breaking
news and. More that's Pw torch dot.

Speaker 9 (01:58:14):
Com need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling,
podcasts will come join Me alan Fourrel over in The
Prograss paradise at Pterwoo TORCH vip as we mask on
the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of
the great matches and shows from around the, world be IT, Us,
Japan europe Or. Mexico there's always a place for wrestlings

(01:58:36):
past in The paradise, too and we've done fun historical
shows such as The We Love liger series celebrating the
glorious career Of Jusian thunderliger and our eye was there
when shows where our guests will join me to talk
about a classic bout that they were in attendance. For
we love variety and you can expect lots of it
at The Progress. Paradise DETAILED Pw TORCH vip subscription information

(01:58:59):
and a list of all THE vip benefits is available
at pww torch vip info dot. Com and, yes ALL
vip podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone
And android, devices or you can stream them directly from
our ad FREE vip mobile.

Speaker 2 (01:59:16):
Site See you in The.

Speaker 1 (01:59:17):
Paradise one way that you can help us sustain our
schedule of putting out podcasts throughout the week is by
giving us a five star rating On Apple. Podcasts just
go To Apple podcasts and look for Our Weight Keller
prosing podcast And Weight Keller Processing post show and give
us a five STAR. Ratingo we hope you think we've
earned that score with our fast turnaround times and our
quantity and quality of wrestling analysis throughout the. Week so

(01:59:40):
take a moment out for us and do us favor
and give us a five star rating And Apple. Podcasts
that helps us on search returns and helps us. Grow
and if you, want you can add a few comments
about what you like about the programs in the comments.

Speaker 2 (01:59:51):
Section thank you so.

Speaker 13 (01:59:52):
Much in twenty, TWELVE nxt transitioned into the developmentals system
and ultimately the brand you see.

Speaker 12 (02:00:02):
Today on The.

Speaker 13 (02:00:03):
TORCH vip PODCAST nxt eight Years, back we'll be taking
a weekly look at this page in NXT's early.

Speaker 14 (02:00:10):
History Join Kelly wells and Me Tom stout FROM Pwt
TALKS nxt Every saturday as we go eight years back
to the day to track NXT's rising talents and why
they did or didn't work Out exclusively FOR Pw TORCH vip.

Speaker 1 (02:00:24):
MEMBERS Pw TORCH vip membership doesn't just give you add
free access to these shows and a ton of OTHER
vip exclusive podcasts throughout the, week but you also gain
access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling, history our
contemporaneous week to week coverage through our Progressing torch weekly
newsletters dating back to the late nineteen, eighties along with
streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows

(02:00:45):
from the nineteen, nineties including some of my interviews with
wrestling's top newsmakers in the, nineties and also our podcast
library dating back to the year two thousand and. Three
there's no, larger longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than
that that comes with A Pb TORCH vip. Membership now
we're approaching twenty years of, Podcasting go vip and dive
into our post pay per view roundtables are covered with

(02:01:07):
some of your favorite eras of, wrestling top name long form,
interviews and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the.
YEARS pw torch dot com slash go. Vip we have
a streamline signup form and you can pay With PayPal
or directly with your credit card or debit card in
one or two. Minutes from right, now you can be
A vip member and diving into our. Library pw torch dot,

(02:01:28):
com slash GO vip

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}5 YRS AGO RAW POST-SHOW: Money in the Bank build, Liv's push, Styles's return, WWE corporate speak, more

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

All Episodes

5 YRS AGO RAW POST-SHOW: Money in the Bank build, Liv's push, Styles's return, WWE corporate speak, more

Stuff You Should Know