WWE RAW POST-SHOW (5/12): Keller & Pomares discuss whether Sami will turn on Punk, SNME top matches including Jey-Logan, Gunther rematch

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(01:07):
Post show. It's time to talk this week's WWE Monday
Night Raw. Maricio on tonight's Raw, we had some developments
quickly moving after backlash setting up Saturday Night's main event
Jay us So and Logan Paul, and then the announcement
that the winner of that match will face goother What

(01:31):
do you think of this kind of one two punch
in terms of world title developments and setting the stage
for what jay Uso has in front of him. They
had the Angle left Raw last week where Logan punched
him and they were breaking about the social media traction
that that gained, and then Guther came out and had
an exchange with Jay, very focused on him and a
little bit of giving away almost that Jay's going to

(01:52):
beat Logan, but I think people figure that anyway, and
Logan is on the network show just as sort of
a you know, celebrity draw. What what do you think.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
When when when I when Gunter interrupted Jay segments and
he said, oh, I'm getting the next shows. Okay, I
knew Logan Paul was not going to win, but I
don't know, it felt like they were completely undermining that
that the match at Saturday Nights main events. I don't mind,
because I don't like Logan Paul, but but it's kind

(02:25):
of weird that that that jay us already has two titles,
two title matches, so the first one kind of I
don't want to see. It doesn't matter, but they're not
doing it many favors by just by.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Putting by booking Gunter so far, so far ahead.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
And that's without taking account that Jay is kind of
fielding feuding with Cetronie and brown Breaker at the moment.
So I also don't think Gut is winning because I'm
as sore. I think that's the long term plan to
do jays sets on a pay per view. So it
felt weird, but I guess he don't like lol. I
don't mind that he's much That doesn't matter too much.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, And I mean it'll be a good match. He's
a heel who gets heal heat. It's a way to
assure that jay U's so well I shouldn't you know
When I say assure he's cheered, Jay's gonna get cheered.
Jay is a cheered babyface right now, like Eel Skuy
is a cheered baby face. I mean, you don't really
have to do any jump through any hoops who do
any special booking tricks to get that. I want to
I want to talk about Gunther for a minute as

(03:28):
it relates to McAfee and Cole and then get back
to j because uh Goonther. They aired a video package
on the Gunther McAfee match, and the McAfee came out
a little bit after the show started and he talked
about how he gained respect for Gunther. Gunther he thinks
gained respect for him as a result of the fight
that he put up at Backlash. When I say, and
I bring this up now because I say, we're assured

(03:49):
of Jay being cheered no matter what, because he was
he'd be cheered against heel the caliber of Logan Paul
in terms of people just not liking him genuine But Gunter,
is this part of like turning a baby face? There
was a tease of that months ago. Or is this
more to just go, Hey, McAfee, put up a fight,

(04:10):
Guys fight out their differences. It's done. Gunter gave a
little nod to them. But that's kind of the advent
in Gunter, as he showed against Jay. It's going to
be a jerk going forward and it sort of shouldn't
matter much. What do you think?

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, I don't think I Last year, like you said,
it really felt from me that they were going for
face Gunter, maybe against someone like Logan, Paul on the Road,
trust Somania, and they they completely faded all that away
and started the day.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Use the feuds.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
I didn't really guess that from put mccafee like this
really felt like it was more of Pat McAfee would
put on a good fight, so he's just giving his
respect or something like that. Like honestly, like I cannot
get the feeling that these did more for Pat McAfee
than it did for Gunter, because they did all the

(05:00):
bad God will be a package. Everybody cheered for him,
he stood on the table, the fact that he a commentator,
had a match against the wrestler, and the end the
commentator is just back on commentary, Like I guess, I
guess I just wanted him to take a week off
at least like excel that you just focked Gunter. One
of the most dominant champions that w W has. They

(05:23):
always mentioned that this guy has had has been more
champion more time than not. Why does Pat mccaffe gets
to be to just come back and say, yeah, I
had a fight, like I wish he had sold more
like make him lose one week at list. It is
not not because I don't like mat Pat McAfee, mostly
because it would be more better for Gunter, Like that's

(05:45):
what you get when you face Gunter. That's that was
my biggest issue with the whole Pat McAfee think on
this show.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
I'm with you on that. I would have had him
sell it for an extra week.

Speaker 4 (05:54):
Now.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
The fight was intense. Mac feeling into the camera, showed
he had a broken blood vessel. What is eyeball showed off,
you know, pulled his collar down and showed off bruise.
But and I get McAfee's a former NFL player, but
he was a punter, a kicker, not necessarily the most
you know, badass position in football. You're still on the
fielding to take hits. I'm not demeaning it, but it

(06:16):
doesn't make you automatically someone who can compete with Gunther
in the narrative realm of WWE. That said, he did
put up a good fight. Gunther did sort of play
with his food a little bit, took it kind of
lightly at times, and did win. I mean, McAfee earned
Gunther's respect in a way where I think he can
do that and it's true to his character. But I

(06:40):
would like I would have ultimately liked to have seen
McAfee be gone for a week. I just don't think
they Michael wanted to announce without McAfee for a week,
you know, I mean just two days later and he's
out there just full of energy again. I think that
undercuts gnther a little bit in terms of the type
of story ideally you'd want to tell. So so I'm
I'm I'm with you on that. L Larcher in the

(07:01):
chat for what it's says it's consistency in the character.
He always respects to fight, and I think there's something
to that. Sadler Version three said, this is my big
problem with the end of the pay per view match.
Gunther wasn't menacing enough after the match. If they're keeping
him heal, he should have destroyed McAfee after the bell
and then standard Deviation in the chat says I hope
Gunther's respect was merely closure for the feud and not

(07:23):
a sign that he's turning babyface. Derek counters our argument
and says Pat's monologue about getting beat up was more
notable than just being off TV for a week. We
could have done both, Derek. He could have taken a
week off and then come back and talked about the beating.
But yes, at least he did sell you know, he

(07:44):
talked about how tough the beating was, but didn't didn't show,
didn't show a lot of physical wear and tear. Ge
Lane in the chat says, not a big fan of
the respect for Pat. Gunther should have destroyed Pat. Coming
back two days after it was not enough. You can't
have Guther show respect to Pat and none to j
I thought it was interesting too. Michael Cole didn't seem

(08:04):
all that he didn't He wasn't willing to go. It
didn't seem like body language, face expression or words that
he was on board with with the idea that, oh yeah,
I respect Gunther too. I mean that was Cole was
so worked up over what guntherro did the McAfee and
the idea that they just have a fight, gother wins
and then Gunther nods at him and all as well. Again,
I mean, I can see that being a bit of
a stretch for Cole's character. It can be a bit

(08:27):
of a stretch for the fans. Ratio your thoughts on
some of those chat comments.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
The one that I fully agree, right, and the one
that said that Gunter did not show you any respects,
but he did show Pat Murphy. That's That's something that
makes a lot of sense, Like why is Gunter not
why does Pat McAfee get the respect but the guy
that made you tap out of rustal.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
Mania that.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
The more I think about this, the more the more
I'm getting annoyed at Pat McAfee. So not the biggest
fan of how they the post the postman, the post
paper view or pl E stuff, the way they handled
it on this show, Like, yeah, it was, it was fine.
It doesn't matter too much better.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
I guess I wanted it thinks to be a little
bit better for Gunter so far, I'm still not happy
after with the way he started ranged and it the
way it happened.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
A lot of things that.

Speaker 5 (09:29):
Do not.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
I think. I think the idea that j put up
such a fight against him, where's the respect for Jay?
Does make some sense. Now, maybe Gunter saying you're not
in a you're not a wrestler, you're not a threat
to me. I beat you, but you put up more
of a fight than I expected, And Gunther will show
respect to somebody in this case who isn't a threat
going forward. But took more of a beating than he

(09:51):
had than he anticipated as terry deviation, says Newdy, and
commentary calling out Cole's hypocrisy for cheating on the Pat
match was great. That that's fun. Another comment here in
the chat, good Fellow fourteen twenty two said, in w
B world, Pat went toe to toe with Adam Cole,
he beat us in theory and Baron Corman won a
war Games match. There's documented toughness there. No, I mean

(10:13):
that in w B Cannon in their world. Absolutely there is,
and I mean it's it's it's a fair comment. He's
still an announcer and they were you know, Cole was
still selling it as Pat. This isn't You're not You're
out of your league this year. You're out of your depth.
This is not going to go well. So the story
was Pat was you over his head and the names
you mentioned are not Gunther. Also, you know goun Thro

(10:35):
is at the next level. I'm research.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Oh yeah, like you said, I agree, like he beats
of the theory. He faced on Adam Cole, he was
in our waiz match. I forgot he had a match
with Margomy. But the yes, that's happened. But Also in
w W Cannon he lost a match to be Zackman
at seventy plus years.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
Also, I don't know, I wouldn't take.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
A lot of wise Ky in Lower Canony for a
while because last time Pat McAfee was interesting ring before
the this countermatch, well, I think it was in the
Royal Rambow like one or two years ago, and his
bit was that he entered the ring, got scared and
run away. So I don't I don't think WW has
really really given me the chance of oh yeah, this

(11:19):
guy is a tomb guy.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
If the last time we saw him in a ring
he run away because he didn't want to face I
think it was brom Bricker if I'm not mistake. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah. By the way, Derek Hubbard says to answer Mary
Sal's question, going through as a saw a loser, he
gives respect when he wins and he sucks when he loses.
It's easier to show humility when you win, then show
respect and pride when you lose. How do you feel
about that?

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Not sure, I'm fully invoord with that, but that's one
way that it could work it.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah, it could make sense. Not sure how you fully
believe it, but it's something something that they did with
more tough than what WW actually did.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
I would have liked Cole to have something to say
and go, Pat, you can say you respect him. I
mean a long time before I can forgive Gunther for
what he did to me, for what he did to you.
I still think he's a bully. The fact that he
respected the fight you put up is on you. That's
a credit to you, but it's not a credit to Gunther.
And I think he should still be worked up. Paul
was so worked up about this, and he could interject there,
yeah's gun there's a gracious winner at times when he

(12:21):
beats up somebody who's not a full time wrestler. But
what about Jay, what about when he loses? He's a
sore loser. There there was a way to, you know,
take into account everything that we're saying here, and I
think kind of, I think check some boxes. Matt Pisquetti
says Gunther has lost so much of his aura over this.
I don't doubt he could get it back. But was
it worth it? Do you think Gunther is damaged by

(12:43):
this at all?

Speaker 3 (12:44):
Rasa, I mean, I don't.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
I don't think he got managements feuding with Bat McAfee,
But I do agree that's ever since losing the inter
count other diitle at last years of so many, he
really doesn't feel like guns that they internet we got
on n xt UK on nxt or during his first
style run, like he said, I think he can get

(13:07):
it backwards.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
I don't know, man, I.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Really really, I really annoyed that Gunter has one of
my favorite matches of all time and I guess and
he's not being books.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
He's an award Championship rates from Gunter was very underwhelming
at the end, So.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
The more I do not, I kind of think it
wasn't worth it because I think you could do so
much more with Gunter and you're not doing it with
right now, which is annoying.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
I'll try this comment up as an example of a
lead into something else here related to this. Gee Lane
in the chat says the respect framing should have been
used for an upcoming wrestler, not an announcer. Now, what
I'll say to that is, I think that would be fine.
Pat McAfee more valuable of an asset and part of
the brand than an upcoming wrestler who loses to Gunther.
If somebody loses to Gunther and they're not up and

(14:03):
coming wrestler. That can happen later, It can happen again
as it happened with Pat, But right now I think
they want to protect the Pat McAfee brand more than
they're trying to elevate some up and coming wrestler who
gets book to lose to Gunther at this stage. Because
if they're booked to lose to Gunther at this stage,
then while I say this knowing Jay loss to Gunthro
and then won the championship, but they're probably not going
to do that again with somebody who earns respect from

(14:25):
him and then ends up beating him for the title
after losing to them. All right, well, Marciel, let's pause
and introduce the show, and then we'll get back to
I want to talk a little bit more about the
Jagunther interaction and a lot more on the show too
to cover. We're about to go to a commercial break.
Why let's say commercial breaks when you can go VIP

(14:46):
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(15:08):
yourself to a streamlined, AD and plug free listening experience
with a VIP or Patreon membership. This is the Wade
Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show for Monday May twelfth, twenty
twenty five. I'MWAYD. Keller hosts the show, the editor, publisher
and founder of the long running Pro Wrestling Torch weekly
newsletter and the website petwtorch dot com. On PW torch

(15:30):
dot com, you can find my live TV coverage of
Raw Dynamite, SmackDown, and wwepls as they air, or you
can read them of course after the shows are done,
or if you're catching up later the next day. Lots
of other content on there, news stories, flashback articles, special
contributors doing a bunch of different themed articles, hits and misses,

(15:50):
rising stars and fading stars, few tracker articles, much more.
Just really good supplement to being a pro wrestling fan
with a good mix of opinion and backgrounds of fans,
so I hope you're checking that out on a regular basis.
One of the opinions in different perspectives you get is
from today's co host on the show, Mauricio Palmeres. He
is a contributor to pw torch dot com with raw

(16:14):
reports right alongside mine on Monday nights on our website. Mauricio,
welcome back to the show.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
Hi once again, thanks for having me back.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
Great to have you, I think, I mean, I.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
Don't think I've been on the show since WrestleMania, so
I don't know. Good to be back.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, it's good to be back. There's a lot lots
happened since then. Doesn't feel like that long ago, but
a decent one has happened since then, and tonight certainly
pivoted to you know, post backlash, post WrestleMania chapter for WWE. Mauricio. Overall,
I'll get a couple other plugs in here, But do
you think ww's in a good position right now compared

(16:53):
to go compared to where you hoped or thought they
would be after WrestleMania. Here a month out, I feel that.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
They're in a bit of a transitional period because right
now they have some good stuff because the Cronians broad
Breaker Paul Heyman group has really been and they're filled
with Pank, Sammy and Jay. Now that has been really
I think quite good like and the women's division, it finally,
it finally feels like they are giving them some actual time,

(17:22):
like they got the Dice Made event over the last
couple of weeks. They get a lot of singles matches,
some with not great endings, but still a lot of time.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
They were given.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
So but there is still a lot of stuff that
I'm not fully on board with the Attack division. I'm
really it has been a long time and it hasn't
really been fixed.

Speaker 3 (17:41):
That Jay is very popular, He's he he been a
part of the set Ronian suit is. I think it's
very good.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
I really don't do not care about him facing log
and Pol and beyond why my what my feelings are
about log and Pol, I don't think they have done
a really good job of building the match on TV.
They had one segment so far and and it was
the same Logan Paul promo we've heard every single time.
There's a few like yeah, I'm a I'm better than

(18:12):
everyone thinks I'm a I'm a social media influencer and
more important to make more money than you like Logan
pol is not an interesting character. So that's the fact
that that is the World War happen with title picture
does not really make much for me. And so there there,
I think, WW right now, it's a bit of a
transitional position, and I'm and I'm kind of baffled that

(18:35):
they haven't announced that there the draft kits.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
Because that's you, like I was. I keep waiting, So
so they're going to nice the draft tonight right or
on this week smack dowbody, But I keep feeling like
they they won't do it because they just announced like
money in the bank qualifying matches, and I.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Think that's going to take president over the draft. So
I guess they're doing the draft the year. It feels
weird because it's being years since they've done the draft,
like two or three weeks after rust Romania.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
So right now, keep waiting for some do we wait
for the draft or we just focus on the rosters
that we have now?

Speaker 1 (19:16):
I think we got to focus on the rosters we
have now because everything is still you know, linked up
going through sentence main event at least at this point
with the wrestlers aligned where they are, Okay, I want
to I want to throw out a couple other things
and then we'll get back to the Jay Gunther exchange
and also some more chat comments on as some really
good contributions from our chat today. You can join in

(19:38):
the chat if you're watching us live uh the If
you watch us live on YouTube, it's on the PW
Torch YouTube channel, and we keep an eye on the
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nice having that kind of instant reaction to the things
that we're saying throughout the show, getting different perspectives, different
questions and ways to look at things differently than than
than we're seeing and responding to that. So you can

(20:00):
be part of the show by doing that. Another way
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When you email, you can do it during raw down,
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(20:23):
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(20:45):
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(21:05):
reminder so that you don't miss it if you're busy
or distracted with other things but want to watch the
post show live. All right, let's get back to the
Jay Gunther segment and some conversation about that. Derek Mitchell
says Gunther's not damaged by the loss to Jay at
WrestleMania he only lost three times in the last year.

(21:26):
Samy's Ana Rossemetia forty Cody wrote a Crown Jewel and
to Jay, who's so at rosa forty one? And so
I think Jay, I think Guther is in a very
strong position, but I also like that he has lost.
I think if he never lost, the story becomes when
is Gunther going to lose? Which is fine, but I

(21:47):
think you want there to be other stories that are
being told about him and having some vulnerability or in
a meta sense, a belief that he might lose. I
think is actually kind of important to his match is
staying interesting, do you think, Marcia?

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, now I agree, Like right now Gunter, I don't
mind that he lost to to Sami, saying like I
didn't like the use so much, but that match, but
it made sense for Gunter to lose to Jus that
my issue with with I don't think Gunter has lost
or or anything because of his losses. Like his losses
have been fine, like him losing to j fine, he

(22:24):
listened to Sami, fine him loosening like back in the
Next to bron Breaker or to Dragon Off. That were fine.
The only one I didn't like was the Cody Rose one,
but that was a lot anarchy. I think the problem
with Gunter is is less because about his losses and
more about the feuds he was given because he was
He won the title by facing the Damien Prince.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
And that was good, I think. I think it was good.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
And even the round Yrton match Tona it would a
been too long for my liking, it was good for him.
After that, he just went into this he kind of
got mixed with Damian Prey, some female or throughout the
judgment they break up and he just kind of got
lost in the in the shuffle in between that, and
I think that that's the main reason I think Gunter

(23:10):
lost some aura, because yeah, he's not the main focus
even though he's the world champion.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
So and my issue with Gunter is not that he
has lost matches.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
I think the fact he's so far all of his
losses sem the Coudie one have made sense to me. Yeah, yes,
I just wish he got better feuds that I think
that's that's the biggest issue with Wound right now.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
Glenn Buh in the Chat says they can and will
rehabilitate Kunther when they need. It could be as easier
as the guys are coming back and reading them the
right act and asking him, asking him why he is
suddenly so soft? Where is the real gunther? I mean,
you can do that, for sure, and it is a technique,
and sometimes we underestimate how quickly they can kind of
pivot and just have some sort of inspiration that gives
the wrestler. Took some losses a killer ed again, and

(24:00):
I mean, I don't underestimate that. But at the same time,
Guther is in a certain level where I understand people
and us having a discussion about how much how important
is that aura and if you pierce it too much,
is there enough left if you sacrifice him in ways
that maybe you're not sacrificing other top stars. You don't
want him to be the guy who they feel can
be sacrificed often, And again it's it's not often yet,

(24:24):
so I'm not We're not there yet, but even sacrificed
in the sense of not just crushing Pat McAfee instantly,
although he seemed to delight in extending the beating and
he did win, so yeah, anyway, I think our points
are are made here. Any any final quick words on
that Mesia I don't think I have any Yeah, yeah,

(24:44):
stand aviation said. I interpreted Gunther's reasoning as in viewing
pattis so far beneath him that he respected him for
standing up to the almighty Guther, whereas Jay turned out
not to be as low as gnther viewed. So I
think it's a fair comment to add and close with. Now,
the Ja Gunther match itself is at right after money
in the bank. It's on June ninth on Raw, and

(25:06):
so the idea here could be that whoever wins money
in the bank, and we had a chat on that
from Darrell Jay, person's going through a be on the
rafter money in the bank, So people will either think
you're getting a cash in or something else. We should
be talking about how they're putting that match on Raw.
I agree, I just wanted to get through the other

(25:27):
stuff first here. But the idea of Goonther versus Jay
two days after the money in the bank does mean
some people are going to think, oh, maybe this is
where somebody cash is in. So it's time to kind
of get going because we got only a month to
go here. You know, it starts speculating on who's going
to win money in the bank. And I mean not
that we have to do it tonight, but this the
timing of this title match does indicate.

Speaker 6 (25:49):
That searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join
me Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling
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(26:10):
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Speaker 3 (26:25):
Yeah, like you said, the match is taking place in Phoenix, Arizona.

Speaker 6 (26:29):
I was.

Speaker 3 (26:30):
I immediately chased cage match to see where is the.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Match taking place because it's kind of weird that they
didn't mention money in the back or Night of Champions
or anything. And like you said, it is the role
after money in the bank, So I think maybe maybe
I'm not keeping a close eye to w deliver right now.
I do not have any idea who could win one
in the bank, so I'm thinking I guess I can't

(26:58):
have to wait to see who wins mone in the
Man before thinking if there's going to be a cashon
the on the night after that, because right now I
don't think Jay's title Rainy is ending can deal. I
think he's at the very least making it to Summerland.
True Place doesn't do short style rain So yeah, I

(27:21):
think they are doing like you said. The comments said,
they are going to tease a cachine beats. It's I
think he's going to be a less hair in it,
and the title Rainy is going to last at the
very least under the summer.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
Clam One other comment here from Glenn Bea Wade. I
like that going Through losers too, but I won't want
them to have him keep losing the big one or
just in big matches or WrestleMania. I'd have him wins
then next Rasumania match. Not a big thing really though. Yeah,
you want gun Through that wins some big matches. I
mean that's part of not piercing his armor where it
starts to kind of disintegrate. I think you need going
Through to be strong, but you don't need him to

(27:52):
be undefeated. You know, in the story within the program.
I think there's some value in there being some history
of him being vulnerable, and you you covered that, Mauricio. Well, okay,
so let's look at something else on the show. And
that was the latest with sam Punk in the ractional.

(28:12):
Last night's or last week's main event ended up with
bron Breaker and Sethrolins and Hayman coming out and a
brawl and jay Us and sammy' z ain running in.
So we had j Punk and Sammy clearing the ring
of Braun and Seth with two of them had chairs.
That's a three on two situation. Now they announced for
Senate's main event, Uh, it'll be Punk and Sammy against

(28:36):
Braun and Seth, which is a big tag match which likely,
you know, could headline the whole show. They're already teasing
tension between Punk and Sammy, at least trying to address
the expectation that there would be. I liked the opening segment.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
I liked.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Addressing Punk going I don't I'm not in the mood
to trust people right now, and Sammy, you know, seeming
to be also grounded in a way to indicate yeah, yeah,
I get that, but we got business take care of it.
If a breaker and uh Set are still around. We're
not going to be accomplish any of our goals. We
have separate goals, but we're not gonna all accomplish them

(29:15):
if we aren't working together to get rid of or
you know, knock down Hayman's crew. What do you think
of that story that was with the end of the.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
Show, Okay, I think, like you said, it was pretty good.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Like SETA and that said pomdcast Sami put in their
differences essentially not big differences, but there's still their differences
to a side because because because Sets and broad Breaker
are such a big threat, like the fact that you're
forcing these people that don't really like each other that
much together.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
Just because of how much of a big of a
treads these two representing.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
I think that they, like you said, they did a
really good job establishing these two as attach team and
why it is important that they take Set A broad
Breaker down. And like you also mentioned that there was
a three on two the different it's like between at
the start of the show, it's another the nice manum
and it's not going to matter because Jay has Logan

(30:13):
pall on that night. But I do like the idea
that that they are essentially de seen that when Jay
is free to face Set and brown Breaker, they are
going to need a third guy. Set and Brondbreaker are
going to need a third guy. And I guess that's
I think it's pretty interesting. Like I don't know who
it could be right now. Maybe it's a color for NXT,
maybe someone we haven't thought of yet. So, like I said,

(30:37):
tonight's said segment was once again pretty good stuff and
it really makes you think, makes me be excited for
their matches that are the nice Man event and what
could come up with said run into this group?

Speaker 3 (30:48):
What do you think?

Speaker 1 (30:49):
I like the idea of tension with Punk and Sammy
because I've speculated from the beginning that Sammy might join
Hayman's group, and I wouldn't be against there being a
third active wrestler member. But I think we have to
go on a journey to get there, and I don't
want it to feel rushed or hasty. I want it
to feel natural. I'm not even convinced it's a right move,

(31:13):
but acknowledging Sammy and Punk have a motivation to work together.
The term was.

Speaker 4 (31:22):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
I was trying to remember the the oh we have
our own ambitions and I like that, but they can't
be accomplished without working together. It acknowledges attention. I think
it's going to make people think, can Sammy be fully trusted?
Obviously Punk's not going to turn and enjoin Hayman with
everything else happened, but Sammy does seem like a little
bit of a candidate. I'm not even evaluating whether it's

(31:44):
it's ultimately a good move or not. And I think
there's a way to tell a story to be compelling
and work. And it's also you can make a case
they shouldn't do that again ultimately, though it feels little
weird Hayman having two guys. I just I like a
slightly bigger faction than that. It's one or two more.
But yeah, Derek Mitchell says, it sure looked like Sammy

(32:05):
could have whacked seem Punk with the steel chair. They
sure are planning seeds with Sammy and doing Carpenter just says,
does WW need to be careful to any turns seeing
at Becky and then Sammy, and I think that's a
legit concern. You know, Becky's cutting a lot of in
her promos. We'll get to her later that are reminiscent
of things that Seina said or could have said, or
maybe ought to have said at some point. Yeah, so anyway,

(32:29):
we're sure anything else on that, I think.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
I'm done with you let me, Yeah, I think I
don't think there I have much else to say on
that match, Like it's going to be a cool match
for Cuturday, nice man event, And I'm not sure where
we're going after that, because maybe I mean, you can
put Sets and Punk or Sammy and Sammy and and
Bronos some combination of them in the morning the bag

(32:53):
Ladder matches that that that could be a good follow up,
But not really much else to say about that.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Ryan says, did anyone notice the backstage Rollin's Hayman bronze
segment felt like a bloodline segment? Yes, it struck me
right away. I don't know if that's good or bad.
I mean, I don't have a strong opinion either way
other than I look forward to it if they're going
to do it. I mean, I think that's that's where
having more people sitting around and reacting is good, although
we sort of get that with the Judgment day at
this point, where you know, everyone's kind of the camera's

(33:21):
kind of following different people around who are jumping from
one conversation to the next. But yeah, it was certainly
a flashback to Hyman sitting in the background reacting, you know,
with glee to seth Rawlins, giving you know, sage advice
and wisdom to Braun and then whispering something to him
which turned out to be broad attacking Jay. Later, I'm
what do you think of seeing the familiar Bloodline setting
for those.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Three I hadn't notice notice it at the moment, but
it did make sense. I didn't hadn't thought about it,
but I mean it it has full Hayman, so he
probably had a hand in making these segments in a
similar manner too, to at least the original Bloodlin segments.
Would you have to which could which could be really

(34:01):
good for what's in this action? Because I think during
the pandemic those segments between where it was Roman j
And and just Jay and Paul Heyment, those segments really
like like gay debs to those characters. So doing those
satements with savements of that same quality, we'd say that
the road breaker could really pay.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Off later down the line.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
Right, only very early, but if they keep doing stuff
like the bloodline that could really pay off come next
come next year for so media.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
All right, a couple of chack commentson will get to
our callers, uh Jason d in Australia. At first, Durrell says,
WW is a problem having the fans bow the people
they should po Moving Sammy over with Seth is a
bad idea that will continue this, Uh, the trend of
fans not poing heels. They need to focus on getting
that right. Yeah, I mean there's certainly a chance of that.

(34:55):
I think fans would be deflated and bummed out as
Sammy went back Taman for everything. So that's why they
can't rush it. They have to tell a good story
if they do it, It's sort of like in Paul Hyman.
I trust I think they'll tell a good story. Sam
is a great performer. But sometimes they you know, they
do onet turn too many or or they get excited
about the end result, but they don't realize fans won't

(35:16):
buy it as a believable scenario. One of the note
from Standard Deviation in the chat, I don't like how
Broad looks in a suit next to Paul Hyman. He
looks like an NPC goon. So it was interesting seeing
Brown run into the ring in the suit. It's it's
it's a curious look for him to have, but it's deliberate.
We'll see how it develops over time with him. Any

(35:37):
any thoughts of that in Racio, that's fine if you don't.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
I do agree that he's kinda I'm not used to
seeing Broadbreaker in anything that he's He's wrestling year, so
I don't think he looks like an APC goon like
he looks side like, he looks weird, but he's not
anything in Neoti, So yeah, I don't think it will

(35:59):
hard he in anyway.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
You can support us on Patreon and get these shows
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Weight Keller Prossing post shows and the PW Torch daily
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(36:24):
dot com slash PW Torch vip and you can also
upgrade to other tiers and receive even more benefits through Patreon.
All right, let's bring Jason di out of the program. Uh, Jason, welcome.
What's in your mind about tonight's rot?

Speaker 3 (36:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (36:40):
Thanks, Wydon Mauricio. Yeah, that's a funny comment in PC.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
Good.

Speaker 5 (36:45):
Well, I think Brawn in the suit is kind of
like the badass security guy, you know what I mean,
that he's wearing it.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
I don't know that should be what he is. That's
the thing, like I could take that cob in that
role or you know some but well go ahead, Jason, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (36:58):
Well will you look. But if he's coming out there
wearing that jacket and his street close, does he look
too cool? Then like they're trying to balance him out
to look a little bit more menacing in the suits,
do you know what I mean? It's about the visual effect.
If he's coming out of street close, does he look
too cool?

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Standy aviation? Jason just chat it said in the chat
it reminds me of solo so Cohen, I think Brin
shouldn't be slotted into a solo like role.

Speaker 5 (37:25):
Yeah, I mean this and everyone Yeah, that's a good point,
but I guess everyone's got their own opinion, you know,
like a certain visual like certain clothing or someone that
affects other people's perception of him differently to others, you
know what I mean. To me, it didn't really bother
me too much, but I can see what other people
are saying, So it's an interesting one. Look, I don't

(37:45):
think staf. Look I don't think Sammy's going to join
Seth's scroup because you have to look at the character motivations,
and Sammy's primary motivation is to win the World Heavyweight Championship.
Aligning himself with Seth will not help him do that
because Seth wants it right.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
Ye.

Speaker 5 (38:05):
So Sammy Jane is the number one contender to win
the money in the bank briefcase. So because in my mind,
I can see him winning the briefcase and then choosing
to do the right thing and not using any Shenanikans
against Jay and actually saying to him I want to
challenge you on this date and catching it in fair
and square, and then losing to Jay clean and then

(38:29):
setting down a darnward spiral for Sammy where it actually
turns on j because I can see Sammy wanting to
do the right thing, but then it all backfires. So
that's that's the story. I think you can tell with
Sammy there he wins the money in the bank. Yeah,
tries to do the right thing and a backfires on him.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Marcia, what do you think.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
That that? I think I think you're a.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
Quite an interesting idea for Saturday, because read like you
said earlier, I do not have any ideas of who
could win money in the bank. And Sammy that has
challenged for the world a couple of times throwed the
last year, and he has numerous times mentioned like he
like he really wants to.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
Win a wor like like like if he has any
motivations at this point is that he has yet to
win a World Championship in w W, so that that
could actually I could actually see that.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
I think it's it's a decent idea, and I think
it's a realistic idea enough to push some of his
character because he's a honorable guy, but who's who is
kind of starting to get desperate about winning a world
championship before his career ends.

Speaker 5 (39:40):
I like it, but the key, the key is for
him to not be successful in adant the case, for
him to do the right thing, but it doesn't work
out and it sends him on a downwards fall because
I sell them money in the bank is almost to
guarantee he can't. The guarantee can't work out for him.
It has to be leading to his down with Spiral

(40:01):
because when Jay won the championship after the WrestleMania and
they had that moment in the ring, Samy kept talking
about how much Jay deserved it. You deserve it, you
deserve it. But in Sammy's mind, he deserves it the most,
so he will eat away at him that he deserves it,
but he can't win it. And it's like he's so
sick and tired of being happy for everyone else and

(40:22):
not for him. It's going to eventually make him crack.
So you can see a story that they can tell
that I still think, I know you disagree with this
when I brought this Upbeate. I still think the right
person to join sets group is Logan Paul, just to
get that heat and to have them play off one another,
and Logan Paul is part of the plan for them
to expand and to get their message out there, because

(40:43):
if they're all about a vision and a message, well,
Logan Paul is the YouTuber. He's a social media guru,
and just the heat of Paul Hayman looking glowingly at
Logan Paul like he did with Sea and Punk and
Roman Reigns. That would infuriate fans because people thought the
way that haima look at Ryman, Ryanson Punk that was
unique to them. But for him to give that look

(41:04):
to Logan Paul, that's where the hates. So if I
had him on their side, that complete sit for me
and maybe one more person.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Well, Marizio, I've made my thoughts on that clear. I
am not swayed by Jason. I mean, what he says
makes sense. It's just I don't think that's where I
want Logan to land or where I want the Hamen
group to go. But I can't say anything about what
Jason saying is is wrong. It's just not where I
want things to go. But what do you think about
Logan and the Hayman group.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
I'm really not a huge fan of Logan being in
that group, mostly because right now this group is handled
by Paul Heyren and so far all of the segments
between said Bron Punk, Sammy and Gay there has been
a lot of character, a lot of character dreaming and
stuff like like, there's a lot of motivations of why
people doing a lot of character shiftings. I don't think

(41:53):
logopol Has has that kind of can work as that
kind of character.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
Like the moment he turned here, likely think it was
like three years ago. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
He has been the same guy since he did that,
the same kind of guy, the same type of match.
He will pull out some a different cool move, but
I don't think he's an interesting character that could fit
this storyline. I see the reason that it could gain
some hell hit, but I think I'd rather have someone

(42:25):
that can If we're going if another person is joining
this group, it should be someone that can actually develop
up an interesting character and not someone that that that
kind of it's a static entity within WW.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
Jason, what else for us?

Speaker 5 (42:44):
Fair Enough we agree to disagree. That's okay, That's that's
the great thing about was going to figure right, Yeah,
Becky's primary really liked White, So I wanted you to
expand on what you thought when you said that there
were things that she said that you thought would have
been in corporate and was saying, or what the do
you mean by that?

Speaker 1 (43:01):
I think she addressed that she turned because the fans
rejected her last time, and she was specific about the
timeline and when with Sina he just sort of said
I never liked you, Like it wasn't as specific. It
felt more general and open to interpretation, and Becky just
very much said I am done serving you, I'm done
being defined by you. And with Sena just sort of

(43:22):
felt like, you know, I'm mad at you for not
liking me over the years. But it was much more broad,
and I think Becky put more of a time stamp
on it, so that that was an aspect of it
that I thought made sense. I think, uh, there was
something else. I throw the Maricio and then and then
think about it, like, yeah, I agree.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
With what do we said, like like I do, like
I really like Spiky's promo, like it meant like like
when she first turned.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Here and became a man, like eighteen twenties, it was
a long time ago. She did get a similar problem
when we said, you people, you turn on me, but
that didn't make a lot of sense because the people
actually were cheering for her this time around. It's the
fact that there is a clear direaction of like like
he said, of why why do people turn on her

(44:13):
like that? It happened after she wanted to tell like
it makes a lot of sense. And the fact that
the people are actually weir heir there. They actually cheered
her like Liral over Beccualin.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
I think that that adds to it. Like like I
didn't think I could.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
I didn't think a kid could work because, like I think,
Lira has barely been a character until, like until the
last couple of weeks. So right now, I just right now,
I really like where this this Vaccualine character is going,
and this promo was another taste of what it could
look like.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
One thing that Pecky said to Jason is she said
she walked away because the fans asked her to and
because of the reactions online and Sena could have incorporated
into it. You know, if you haven't seen as much
of me lately, it's not just because I'm a big
shot in Hollywood. You know, you could go that it's
because I got sick of you people, you know, booing
me like I left because you know, you hurt my

(45:13):
feelings in a way, but I and I resent you
for it. And again he just everything was so broad
in general with him, but that kind of that was
part of the specific timeline that I liked, the idea
of you can't see yourself and me anymore because I succeeded.
I don't think that would work for scene it because
he succeeded so long ago, unless Sena wanted to go
way back and go you know, the booth started when

(45:33):
I started winning a lot. You guys called me super
Sena and you know, ripped on me simply because I
won my matches. I would have enjoyed that in a
sort of meta meat storyline sense, because it was, you know,
weird that people were mad at a character being successful,
but it was a meta thing of they're pushing him
too hard. And I've never been a huge fan of
that as a reason to dislike scene. I mean, that's

(45:54):
what you do with lead babyface champions, is they win
matches and retain their titles. But Sena could have corporated
that in and Becky did a lot with it there,
Jason what else.

Speaker 5 (46:02):
Yeah, But that's where I'm gree with it. That's where
it's similar, but not so similar because Sena can't use
that because even he mentioned the past four or five years,
he hasn't won a match, So that argument, no.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
I said, you have to go back to the very beginning,
like he had that would be a long time. That's
how Sena could time stamp it and go. It was
a slow thing, and I denied it for a long time,
and I didn't, you know, like I my friends told me,
my colleagues told me, I should be angry at the fans,
and I just couldn't do it. But you kept booing me,
You kept booing me. And then someone told me it's
because I was successful and they weren't. And then that's
when it That's when I realized they're holding me back,

(46:35):
and that's why I left and went to Hollywood. I
had success in another round. But whatever I mean, there's again.
I'm obviously I'm not writing a promo for him, but
these are more just sort of illustrated things. He could
say that Becky got to for her story, that Sina
had an opportunity to get to in an augmented way
for his story.

Speaker 7 (46:57):
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some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties Past Cast. Every
Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed, Alex and
Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
taking you through the Torch issue from that very week.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
Follow news from the WWF and WCW.

Speaker 7 (47:16):
And all the happenings from across the wrestling industry in
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That's the nineties past cast every Friday on the PW
Torch Daily Cast feed.

Speaker 5 (47:37):
That's exactly right, And I like what Becky's pointing out
that the fans. The reason why the fans were bing
us because she was winning. But then she call incorporate
a storyline wise, she said, it's not my job to
bring everyone up. It's my job to win. So you're
criticizing me for winning, so now, so it's working kind
of a meta level. So that's why she said right

(47:58):
at the end, now you're going to know what a
slow for everyone to be held down by the man.
So she's playing into that so that this is what
I like about it. She's sort of calling the fans
out on her hypocrisy and then she's just going to
run with it. And I think this is why I
think this Hill character is going to work a lot differently.
It would be good though. It would be good though
if she changed their music. This is I'd like a

(48:18):
complete refresh.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
They had it feeding up, but it doesn't change the
crowd hearing it, even if the TV audience didn't hear it.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
I will like to know.

Speaker 5 (48:27):
Sorry, I'm watching the I'm watching obviously a different version. Chicks.
I get to see everything right, So I got to
see her coming out and everything right. But I just
think just changed the whole character, give her different music,
and you can see. That's what they're trying to do
with Seth rollins last year. Last week they had Paul
Haymar singing along to it, and then they had seen
a punk deliberately speak over saying, You're just a song.

(48:49):
You're just a song. You're just a song. So they're
trying to you know, they're trying to lower the coolness
on Seth Roland's songs. So hopefully he gets the whole
brand you changed to you.

Speaker 3 (49:01):
That would be great.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
Yeah, I mean it's a lot to give up. But
I think they're out too. I think character. I think
crowd reaction is more important than you know, singalongs definitely. Yeah,
anything else, Jason, Thank you, great, great talking with you.
Thanks all right, Let's go to Thunder sky Dancer. Who's
up next? Thunder? Welcome, good to see.

Speaker 4 (49:21):
It, Welcome mine, I'm kind of in the same boat
with Jason. I watched the uh The using a VPN,
and when I saw Baking Lynch come out, she had
to work for the Hills, I mean the Hill Pop.

(49:42):
She had to work for the Booze. She had to
work for me because as soon as she walked out,
they were cheering her a lot crazy. They're screaming crazy
and and that's a hard thing to overcome. Overcome, And
I'll give her a lot of credit because he did.
And I I really.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
I think it's.

Speaker 4 (50:07):
Too late to say give up on the watch Chance
because they're still doing the Watch Chance of her a lot.
But I mean that's any given promo nowadays, you'll get
a watch chant and with her. But she did a
really good job being a Hill and she had I
wish he'd done this. I wish he had done this

(50:28):
promo after right after wrestling you a little bit because
I think it done better for her. Also, the only
thing that made me kind of upset with Gum for
coming out and Gum for coming out and saying, day,
I'm going to challenge you in a month for your

(50:51):
title is the fact that Okay and Love and Paul
is facing him Saturday Night main event. He can says, Okay,
Logan Paul isn't winning that, Matt Cowell, it's home, it's
automatically j And that to me is a big no
no when needed that because it can lessens the bat

(51:13):
to me for Logan Paul, and I'm just wanted in
your thoughts on that.

Speaker 3 (51:18):
Rachel first and then the clach think, like, I agree
like this, like you said, it was a great problem
for rick Lynch. I do think that it wouldn't have
mattered if she did this other rosters.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
So anyway, because on the week after after that, after
she turned hell, she also got another really good promo,
though I think she did find that there were still
really good promos back to back. And now the Gunter
and logopol think, I do agree, like it isn't great
for the world for a word title match that they're
already setted up setting up the next one, Like I

(51:52):
don't like Logan Paul, but this is not about this
is a lot more about the ward. I you should
make a ward title much feel more important than the
fact that they already like I said, they already announced
in the next match, and Logan and Paul has and
it isn't even here to to promote this match, like
they did a video package they did, they promoted a
lot of how they got a lot of abuse on

(52:13):
social media. But I guess they just kind of, I
don't want to say they gave up, but they they
realized that this this program with log and Pole doesn't
have many legs really. Even I remember last week when
came out, I was thinking I already was just kind
of tuning out because because he's going to talk about

(52:36):
Logan Pole and it's not going to be very interesting.
And then Crons came out, and I think that that
was way more interesting for the world titles. So I
guess they they have found more interesting things for the
world title to do, so they just kind of kind
of moved the log and Pol match suicide. It's going
to partake place at Saturday, nice Man event. It's not

(52:57):
even going to be the most important match on that show.
I think the that match it's.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
Going to be that.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
So yeah, like it's not good for the world I
will match, but but I guess I don't mind much because,
like I said earlier, I don't like logopool a lot.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
All right, what else under.

Speaker 4 (53:17):
The other thing is we're talking about Gumpher, and.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
I agree with him.

Speaker 4 (53:24):
I agree with you on Gumpher about a lot of things.
But I think his uh finisher being the sleeper, does
that hurt him more than help him? You know, if
the power bomb he has a great move, you know,
they could be a great finisher. But then you have

(53:46):
the sleeper. Whereas the last two matches he's tapped had.
The last two matches he's had to tap out Pat McAfee,
he got tapped out by he got knocked out by
jay at Mania. Does that hurt him that it's not
something like real quick or like a real quick roll

(54:08):
up or something like that, because he usually I'm non
fan of that. But then with him, I see you
wanting to wanting to protect him and say, hey, this
is the only way they can get him out. And
I'm just wondering if that's hurting him more and helping him.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
But the sleeper, it's a nice old school move. He's
an old school heel uh. I mean there's a lot
of moves at our old school, but sleeper holds was
a big thing, you know, for I mean, I grew
up with Verne Ganya and the Ganya sleeper and then
Backwinka went to Japan and came back with the Oriental Sleeper.
I'm okay, I like, I mean.

Speaker 6 (54:43):
I like it.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
It's kind of old school, but I think having a
power bomb and a sleeper and having a couple a
couple of big moves, one high impact and one not
being able to lock it on and do it in
a way where I mean, I think he's said he
he executes it well, he sells it well. It feels
menacing and dramatic. It seems to fit him ratio. I mean,

(55:04):
I'm okay with it. He's not a flashy guy. He's
gonna win an efficient and efficient, prudent way.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
I think Hunter to finish his matches with slipper, I
think it's fine, Like I guess, I guess I preferred
it back in n XC, when he finished matches with
a lot of finishures, like sometimes he finished a match
with a lariat, sometimes with a power so, sometimes with
a big splash like I like like this comment says

(55:30):
Hunter has like three or four finishers, Like I think
right now he has the power role, but the slaper
like back in I think back in the XT he
used he used to finish match with like four or five.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
Different moves, and they were all simple moves, like they
were just simple moves that were that were devastating because
because Gunter was the one doing them. So I don't
mind too much this. I don't think the slipper is
too too much a finishing issue because when you see
Gunter put on a slipper, it really feels like looks
like Guter is killing the bres. But that is in

(56:02):
the book, so I don't I don't mind as long
as the move looks as strong and Guter makes this
liper looks really strong.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
What else? Thunder? That's it?

Speaker 3 (56:14):
Thank you and is it great? It's great Raw.

Speaker 4 (56:19):
You can't wait this talk to you again next week.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Sounds good. Enjoy your week, Bute. Anytime you're watching WWE
Raw or SmackDown or AEW Dynamite in particular, send us
an email if you've got thoughts on the show or
a topic you want us to address or a question
for us. Wade Kellor Podcast at pw torch dot com,
Weadkeller Podcast at petw toorch dot com. If there's anything

(56:43):
else going on in pro wrestling that you want us
to address on our main podcast During our mailbank segments
that same email applies Wade Keller podcast at PW toorch
dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us know what
you think of what we're saying, and let us know
what you want us to talk about and ask us
specific questions. Wade Keller podcast at pw torch dot com.

(57:05):
All right, very good. A couple of check comments. I'm
with standard deviation on this one. I would argue you
tapped out as perhaps the dumbest chant that all the
PROG wrestling, and there's a lot of dumb chance but
that's an argument best reserved for an email. Well, we're
covering it here, although you can send an email and
elaborate more if you want. The idea that tapping out
is dishonorable. I get where standard debation is coming from,

(57:25):
chanting it as a heel who's arrogant, and then he
lost to his own move. I get it more. Jason
D said, I forgot to mention with Gunther JB. Gunthro
using Gunther's own move. Essentially, Jay had to tap into
being Gunther in order to tap out Gunther. I hope
Gunther brings us up. How do you feel about that?
The tap out chance you tapped out chant because you

(57:48):
don't want to make it seem shameful to tap out.
Tapping out in UFC is an honorable thing to do.
It's an honorable way to lose. But I think it's
it's if it's a story, is right, you can it's
more about getting out of the skin of the heel.
Then it is demeaning the idea of tapping out. Where
do you fall on this, Marcia?

Speaker 2 (58:06):
I get how it can be annoying and maybe at
some points, but then we're still very close to restall
main like Gunter lost his work title like maybe a
month ago, so it's it still feels I don't mind
it as long as like this doesn't become his thing,
like like actually it's month first here they're chanting that

(58:28):
at him. I think it's fine if he if if
if people chant that at him, like he also tapped
out to lose his first title or rain, like he's
just driven off force him to tap out, and I
don't remember that didn't really hurt Gunter. Yeah, it's I
don't mind it. The chance there whatever, they're not going
to hart Gunter. They're just add some flavor to the segments.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Fair enough. Let's go to an email from JB and
he says, is another counter j match really pushing it.
I understand that they have an intense rivalry, but at
a certain point when you don't have enough percolating in
the main event scene that you run Logan Paul and
then to back circle right back to Gunthro I think
one might argue there's a problem. So this gets to
the pattern of matches that are on quote free TV

(59:15):
versus pay per view. Structure is different now not a
huge difference of a PL on Peacock or Iran Netflix
these days. I get that. That said, the way WA
books a PL is the more prestigious place to defend
a title against a top challenger satur and it's main
event historically, going back to the eighties, was where you

(59:36):
have a match at the end of a run, after
it's already made all its money at house shows, at
the arena events. Then you put it on TV because
you're not losing out on ticket sales, and now a
national audience who did in attendant person can see it.
There's a little bit of that, a little bit of
that the spirit of that here. I also think Logan
Paul is just a celebrity's going to help NBC ratings.
He's going to use social media to draw a bunch

(59:57):
of people to watch it, and I think they value
that because they want to operating on MBCA. See, there's
no wrestler who can do what Logan can do in
that respect other than giving away a WrestleMania Summer Slam
level match, and they don't want to do that on
free NBC. That's literally over that broadcast waves, no no
subscription for anything required, and then Raw the next day
or two days later. Gunther, I mean, it's the it is,

(01:00:17):
it's it's it's on Raw. You know it is going
back to it and there will be a storyline behind it.
So I'm fine with this. This makes sense formulaically. I
don't think we should. I don't think the average person
is overthinking it. Gunther is a former champion, he deserves
to have a rematch. He's credible, and it'll probably be
more storyline based in terms of the finish, and they

(01:00:38):
can get away with that more on Raw, they believe, obviously,
than ending up p l E that way. Ratio your
thoughts on that, Yeah, Like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
I said, I agree, Like I'm not the biggest son
of doing Gunter resuj five.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
But like you said, it's some TV like, I don't mind, and.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
It also has the added intrigue that that that there
is going to be a money deman older but by
the time that this much takes place.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
So yeah, it's fine. It could be.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
I would have preferred something else, but I won't complain
if if I'm getting a good match on TV.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Yeah. Yeah. Going back to the tapping out thing, A
couple of things in the chat sethera vision threason no
tapping out seeing as cowardly just some jiu jitsu experts,
some would rather get limbs broken or be put to
sleep than tap out. I think that is an exception
that proves a rule. Like I think that's probably use
of the phrase you don't want to end up with
a broken limb. That's just kind of I mean, I

(01:01:34):
get it, but I think it's kind of I think
it's silly to say it's shameful to to do anything
but let your limb get broken. But culturally, I mean
there's there's something like that. Uh Glynne says like crazy
on tapping out, Wade in the UFC would have been
norma go met off. I read it, I don't say
much doesn't call McGregor a chicken for doing it, and

(01:01:55):
said he should have slept first. Yeah, just here, that's
just a heal promo in in usc It's not like
that it hasn't been done. But I understand the point
of trying to protect it as an honorable way to lose.
Standard Deviation said, Wrestling Lead has two options for a
clean finish up pin faller submission. A generation of conditioning
has turned one of those options into a joke. Now
wrestlers refuse to lose by submission, And yeah, I mean

(01:02:17):
that's that's kind of the side effect of doing this
all right. Back to JB's email, he said, I still
get the feeling that Sammy might be the third wrestler
in the Dangerous Alliance, but I wouldn't be a fan
of it. I hate when a new group member gets
beaten down repeatedly beforehand to throw everyone off the trail.
It's like saying, I'll let Brown and Seth beat me
up for weeks and we're indirectly responsible for Seth not
being world champion right now, just so that nobody would

(01:02:39):
see it coming. That's why I think it can't be
pre it can't be decided now. I think it has
to be something that Sammy decides later for reasons fans
disagree with that will cause him to boo him if
they do it. I don't think we have to be
in a place where it's already part of the plot
of Hayman and Sammy. Maricio your thoughts, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
I agree, Like if Sammy were to be the third guy,
at some point, it has to happen after he's already
loved to set and Broad, like you have to give him,
prove him wrong like he's he has he doesn't. He
has to be at the very least challenge these guys,
try to put them away and fail before you can.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
Actually his character.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Would think about joining it, like prove the right Like
if you said the bron Breaker win, maybe they are right.
Maybe the way they are thinking, the way they want
to take that is the right way. So so that
would be one way to do it. But it has
to happen after Sammy has already lost to them, and
maybe more than once, like the I think they're going

(01:03:43):
to lose at a birthday nights many minutes.

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
Maybe maybe have.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Said with Sami, have someone have Sammy lose another male
like like like they like they what they said earlier.
Maybe have something win mon in the mic and lose
another another title match. Maybe put something to the to
the to the wringers so he can So he's justified
even joining this group if he were.

Speaker 3 (01:04:06):
To do it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
H Jason D and the chat says, Sam, it can
only join if he becomes a broken man, and he
has to be completely broken to be convinced to join Seth.

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
Yeah, it's exactly that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Yeah, it's your point. Great minds think alike.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
All right?

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
Back to JP. The code breaker in the Gable Panto
match was a fantastic spot. What do you think of
the Gable Pantom match?

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
So it was good. I guess I kind of prefer
that their first match.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
I don't think I have a lot of It was
a good match, Like Penta has looked really good since
he came to the wre game is always reliable hands.
I think their first match was better, but it was
still very good. So I don't think you have a
lot of strong thoughts on this one night.

Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
It was just a good match.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
Yeah, it was a good TV match. I mean, to
go at what they do, yeah, I mean, I it
was you know, eleven minutes. It wasn't meant to be epic.
There's commercial break in the middle for those who are
a getting the commercials, but yeah, it was. It was fine,
but yeah, it also is somewhat somewhat forgettable. Yeah, I
don't have let to lot to say about other ways.

(01:05:16):
All Right, we have to get away from you people. Heels.
It feels like Sena gave Becky his notes for her
promo tonight. I mean, it's not a completely new thing,
but I do think Becky has a challenge trying to
differentiate herself from Sena with his turn, and in a
way maybe one upping him by just doing a little
bit better of a job is good. And she's also

(01:05:36):
not retiring, and so there's you know more. I mean,
she is a veteran and she's been around a long time,
and she's in the second half of her career to
say the least, but she's not on her countdown to
her final date. That gives her a different kind of vibe.
Two things. She's also trying to get a title not
defended and threatened to retire it. There's some differences, but yeah,
I mean there is a risk maryco that people look

(01:05:58):
at Becky and go, oh, you're just copying Sena, even
though I mean, it's what you'd be doing even if
seen it weren't.

Speaker 8 (01:06:08):
Do you remember when Hulk Hogan shocked the world and
formed the New World Order? Or when Stone called Steve
Austin passed down on the Sharpshooter to break the hit
Man heart. I'm Torch contributor Frank petty Any and I've
reviewed these shows and many more for my exclusive VIP podcast,
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of co hosts, we go back ten, twenty, even thirty years,

(01:06:31):
review pay per views from top to bottom, talk about
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Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
I see a logic in trying not to do the
the same the same spots or promo or or style
of match very often, like a lot of One of
the things that annoys me the most about w W
right now, is that a lot of the matches have
have an interference interference in the finish, even though they
are all doing their own thing, they're.

Speaker 3 (01:07:23):
Seeing different finishes. I see it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
They're all doing the same things. But even though and
I wouldn't mind one or two, but there are a
lot of matches doing that. But they don't think, see,
there are not. I don't think there are a lot
of of heel turns like, yeah, we have seen and
Becky bat that's the two people, right. I don't mind
if their promos are kind of similar, like, yes, there's

(01:07:45):
a similar logic, but I think they both handle things
in a very different way like Baky's probably I can
feel she feels more angry like him. She feels more rumbly,
like she's yelling all the time. She she keeps, she
she speaks, she speaks very fast, like she's kind of
thinks in a different way. To see now whin he

(01:08:05):
speaks a lot slower's she's racing a lot more to
the to the way the crowd reacts. So I think
there's enough difference that you can see look at both
of these promles and yeah, that they're not the same thing.

Speaker 3 (01:08:17):
They saw.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
There's some similar stuff, but they but both of them
have their merits and they're doing good stuff like tonight
baking some really good stuff. She has been doing a
lot of good stuff already past month. And I don't
think if it matters if it was a bit close
to what Sina said.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
Speaking of Seina, Derek Mitchell and the Chat says, maybe
going back to Sammy for any here, maybe Sammy is
heartbroken because it can't come up short and money in
the bank and Sea Punk wins it, and then Punk
challenges John Seen at SummerSlam. They both have their own
goals now Punk is one of being Sammy, and then
Sammy ends up costing Seampunk winning the title, and that's

(01:08:58):
how it turns here. That's good. The pieces are in
place for that. I mean they are. I mean, that's
that's you know, Sammy can be beaten down by not
you know, just too many setbacks and it feels like
he actually can't succeed. And and unless he is, you know,
part of a group, because he yes, he has a
goal to be champion, but if he can't do it
on his own, then it's kind of a point and

(01:09:19):
he might rather be in a group where you say,
what do you think of that scenario?

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
I think for Sammy, I think it worked like to
for seeing for him to see Morney in the bank
his last opportunity, and for that to be the thing
that pushes him over the edge.

Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
That that I think that really works.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
But he also mentioned this, I don't I'm not that
in board with the Seapong stuff, but I don't know.
I guess I just I don't think he's going to
be done with said thrown inside and roam break just
yet by the time summer sum comes, even though it
would make sim to he says, to see a resus
Bok at some point in these years, because that's like

(01:09:59):
one of Sina's most important of the Sammy stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
I think it really works.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
A couple notes to augment the Derek scenario, Ryan Soloreo says,
I still feel we're getting punkd Versusina at money in
the bank, which would then lead to what Jason D
in Australia said, which is it would be more heartbreaking
for Sammy to win the money in the bank match
and not succeed cashing it in. That could be the
setback in the heartache that that that leads leads him there.

(01:10:26):
Jacon Scooby just says, Sammy turns hell, he's a hypocrite
when he called out Ko. Glynn b says, no, Punk
is taking the title from scene at SummerSlam night to
book it now. Standard Deviation notes Punk was is in
the advertisement, he was teased for Night a Champion, so
maybe they do it before SummerSlam. So a lot of
speculation about when Punk gets a shot and if he

(01:10:49):
wins or not. Mato, do you have a timeline guess
on that or a favorite timeframe?

Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
I would surely like when when Sina announced that these
were going to do with his last year, like it
was clear like there's some obvious people that he's going
to face, like he's going to face Cools, He's going
to face brand New Orpen like he's going to face
c a Punk.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
And I think a lot of people into my sales
included thought that, yeah, do see a resus pot at
money in the bag, like maybe a reference one of
the most important matches in w W in modern w
Dowa history.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
But right now it feels a bit too soon. Punk
is going to have the match with set and.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
And Brawn, like two weeks before Morning the Bank and
and and a thought of that Punk is an row
seen as wrestling mostly as back then, Like, I think
they're going to get to it at some point, but
I think they're going to wait after Summer Clad maybe
do it on on Chicago like that. So if not,

(01:11:51):
if you're not going to do it at one in
the back, do it in the city. That's where it
happened the first time around. So I'm guessing after Summer Clam,
not before Slarter series, and I don't know where this year,
but whenever they are in Chicago after summer Sam, I
think that's going to be good place to do. Seeing

(01:12:11):
Punk versus John Cina.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
Some thoughts on that. In the chat one, Rayne Laurius says,
I think we're getting truth against Senet Sena. It's made
event that could be fun. David Chase says it's not
a foreguon conclusion. Punk takes the belt off Sena. I
don't think so. Durell says, Sammy can win the money
in the bank and pull an old scene on Scena
and say he's going to cash in on Sena on

(01:12:37):
a pl e and then he loses. So it's not
a traditional cash in. It's a formal announced date ahead
of time. Cash In Glynn B says Punk versus Scena
is a massive current dough B match which has all
the promo stuff built in and ready to go. They
will need two big matches for SummerSlam too. Punk takes
it and moves back to seth maybe so some more

(01:12:58):
Cody is hanging out ready to come back and projective self. Yeah,
I know, I know, I love that. I mean, I
love that. That's like a thing that's happening so out
of sight, out of mind, and so that he's got
a factor in, you know at some point, and I
haven't sat down and booked out the calendar. I mean,
it's not like my job. I'm kind of along for
the ride. But that doesn't mean that it isn't fun

(01:13:20):
to speculate along the way. There's so many variables that
can alter, you know, why they want to do it
and when they want to do it. And as we
can see going through defending the or challenging j for
the title on May nine, this because it's you know,
two days after Money in the Bank, it'll probably be
a money in the bank related storyline, or they just
see it as a way to really pop a viewership
number for Netflix because you know they still want to

(01:13:40):
press Netflix with some surges in the viewership, which isn't
it isn't on the higher end of I think everybody's
hopes and dreams. So anyway, yeah, any any other thoughts
on that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
I don't think really like right old, I only thought
you is like, yes, Betrandi or Dongue, maybe you do
something with our truths.

Speaker 3 (01:14:02):
I don't think. I'm not interested in doing that, but
maybe after that's I'm interesting to see who's next.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
You're right now, we did see a Cody with s Orton.
We I'm sure we're going to do see a punk
at some point, but I'm thinking who's next. That's I
think that's going to be an interesting question to do,
and when it happens, probably I think he's going to
be my Night Off Champions, But I think that's more
we think about Cinema's Punk later down the line. Right now,

(01:14:33):
just focus on what's coming next for you and see all.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
Right, very good. Finally from JB. I'm glad that wold
be honored Sabu tonight and at all the subtle Sabo
tributes are out the night. What did Sabo mean? In
the grand scheme of prog wrestling, particularly to the hardcore genre.
Has always loved the show and go VIP so I
will save that for the Flagship wakelor Person podcast from
Jason Powell. That's broad topic I want to give time to.

(01:14:57):
I mentioned my brit and Row report at Peter with
youtorch dot com. I've got I used to do a
lot of ring side photography over the years for the
Torch newsletter and wrestling magazines and newspapers, and I have
two frame photos on the wall. One is of Terry Funk.
The other is of Lightning Kid leaping out of Saboo
at the American Indian Center in Minneapolis. Just love the
photo and was around for you know, Sabu making a

(01:15:19):
name for himself. I wrote an editorial back in the
day that Sabou is Wresting's hottest free agent when he
was on the rise and innovating his style. And we'll
talk about that with Jason Powell on the Flagship tomorrow.
By the way, you are invited to email the show.
Jason will join me tomorrow on the Flagship. Get your
questions and comments in. If you've got Saboo memories, we'd

(01:15:40):
love to read them on the air, but it can
be about any topic. Weightkeller Podcast at gmail dot com.
Weight Keller Podcast at gmail dot com. Thanks for downloading
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(01:16:01):
on our pw Torch VIP podcast feed with ads and
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(01:16:22):
all the bonus content and the ad free listening experience.
Pw torch dot com slash go vi IP. I'm Ricio
talk about taboo. What is what does the media? I
don't know how much you've watched of him or when
you picked up look, you know, looking back at his stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
So when when I started watching legs, by the time
I got interesting samo, I don't I don't know where
the hick Samu was, Like, I started watching like twenty
ten if I'm not mistaken, So Sabu was way way
past the sistem of Histio, way past he's running the WWE.
But I had these DVD of I think like two DVD's.

Speaker 2 (01:17:02):
One of it was a Ray Mysterial which included his
match against sab I didn't it was one nice stand
and I remember being captivated, but by the way he
was like, the match didn't last long, the match kind
of ended, didn't have.

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
A real ending.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
But I rever mean, this guy is cool, Like, this
guy is interesting. I kind of want to see more
of him. I didn't really steick out more of him
by in a normal way. I had my I think
my dad handed me like a lot. Not all the
DVD that had that I think was High Flyers something
like that, which included Roban Dam from some point of

(01:17:44):
Easy W and Sabba just to call Scorpio. There were
a lot of cool matches back there, but those matches
were the ones that made me think one easy W
is this was this was such a cool spot for
rests of this guy to do their team and these
these three guys especially say, I really liked his look.

(01:18:06):
They were they were captivating to like, I don't think
we had that kind of wrestling in w W during
twenty ten, let alone during the early two thousands, late
nineties where when he wrestled like it's in a lot
of ways, I kind of wish I was more more
familiar with this stuff he did back in the original

(01:18:27):
is W because him, Rob and dam those kind of
guys were pioneers of.

Speaker 3 (01:18:32):
Such a style. Like I hear stories of him wrestling
while he was very hot and still finishing matches, like
like he he was like a bit of a legend,
Like do you do you see how that guy? Can
you believe that that that guy survived?

Speaker 4 (01:18:48):
That?

Speaker 2 (01:18:49):
Is that that kind of guy where whenever I heard
of him, it felt like like the kind of a
mythical figure like like like in like, I like, I'm
not samiliar with him with his work over role, especially
after after he's running w W. But what I the least,

(01:19:13):
the least I can say that is as a cool
guy that whenever I saw him, it felt like wrestling
wrestling itself felt cooler because of.

Speaker 1 (01:19:22):
Him, very very well put. Like I said, I'll talk
more about that with Jason tomorrow. The let's let's shift
to some other segments on rather we have uncovered yet,
Ratio the Judgment Day, the follow up on I thought,
was uh accurate to do what happened at Backlash where

(01:19:43):
Dominic or there there was the issue about it where
dom said, you know, almost your timing was off Balla,
it almost cost me my title. Baller said, hey, didn't
go smoothly, but all worked out in the end. He said,
you're starting to sound parallel paranoid like Riha and Damien
when they were champions, and Ballo said, hey, I'm taking
care of age styles for you tonight, So what's your problem?

(01:20:03):
That was mixed in with some comedy about time zones
or attemps, a comedy. I thought it was kind of funny,
But what do you What did you think Marcio of
the latest chapter in the ongoing we don't know where
it's going Finn balor dom saga. Pat McAfee noted later
that for some reason the fans like to cheer Dom

(01:20:26):
they like him and when Cole was lamenting him, So, yeah,
your thoughts on that chapter of the show.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
So I think I think, yeah, it's fairly clear that
they're leading to Dominican theme breaking up at some point
because we judgment. They feel like they take a long
time telling this story. Like Damie and prison Finbaaler.

Speaker 3 (01:20:49):
Were, we're at each other's shows for almost a year,
for Summers time twenty twenty three to twenty twenty four.
They were at the they were they were not on
the same page, and it took a whole year for
them for them to actually break up. So this could
end up next week, This couldn't have at Sara Lamp So.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
I think they're building to Finn eventually live in this group,
and I don't think it's going to prepare her. But
but the fact that the people are slightly turning towards Dominique,
like they're starting to cheer for him. They definitely cheer
for him at Russell Mania, where I kind of get
the vibe that if the moment Finn turns on Dominique,

(01:21:29):
Finn is going to be the heel one. Because right now,
right now, if I don't if these two were to surprise,
what reason do the people have to cheer for Fin
Baldor like and like, he's not in a great position
and right now Dominique's he's reaching the point of people
love to hate him so much that they're starting to

(01:21:50):
just love him the same way they new they back
during the original run, they were such like lovable heels
that they eventually turned by face for almost a day.

Speaker 3 (01:22:00):
It so right right now. I don't know when.

Speaker 2 (01:22:04):
They're doing it, like, I hope they don't take too
too long to tell this story because I'm not that
invested in female at this moment.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
What did you think of the New Day and commentary
and the War Writers Creed Brothers match You mentioned the
take Team's seen earlier.

Speaker 2 (01:22:18):
I like the New the New Deck. They are very funny.
They take a lot of good lines. Sometimes they feel
like they take a bit of way of the match,
like I'm a bit more focused on what the New
Day has to say that about what's going on in
the ring, which is also a bit of an indictent
of how an interesting. Both the Decrease and the War

(01:22:39):
Writers are as tactically, I don't think they.

Speaker 3 (01:22:41):
Have much character.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
They are both great tactics in terms in rate inside
the ring, but I've seen this much up quite a bit.
This was another interfiner scending, so I while I enjoyed
the commentary, it's a bit I don't want to say sad,
but like but the the commentary was like one of
the days I enjoyed the most about arrested.

Speaker 3 (01:23:04):
Match Like.

Speaker 1 (01:23:07):
New Day, I'm I'm I like Nu Daya's heels. I
think Xavier was is leaning into it. Uh standard aviation
in the chat, says Coopee in particular, such a polite heel,
which I like. The the the facial expressions of Xavier
and then the way that they you know, ran away
at the end. Their body language is why I thought

(01:23:27):
they were obnoxious before, but now it's framed properly. And
before going to the break, Julia suplexed Eric at ringside,
and Xavier stood and laughed and said, if he dies,
he dies. That's what they say, right, And the way
he said it I thought was delightful. So I'm enjoying
obnoxious entertainment value New Day. I think they just need
a tech division where there's a take team offense really

(01:23:49):
like and they can really get beyond.

Speaker 4 (01:23:51):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:23:52):
Marito, what do you think of the russep promo? He said?

Speaker 7 (01:23:56):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
He asked wrestlers if fans to think about whether fans
care that they're away from their families and that their
choice eat tonight is to hurt or be hurt. He
said the sheep control the wolves, and he can see
through the fans, which is why they mock him by
chanting his name, which is interesting framing of something he's
trying to say. When people are changing my name, they're
mocking me. They're not showing support from me or doing

(01:24:19):
it as some communal, you know, group thing that's fun.
And he said he'd rather fall they they that he
would rather they fall to his hands than fall into
the abyss. So he's justifying beating up wrestlers, saying you
should fall to me rather than suffer trying to please
the fans. What what do you think of this message?

(01:24:40):
Is it clear enough in the way it's being delivered,
Is it novel or interesting enough? Will it work?

Speaker 3 (01:24:46):
I quite likely?

Speaker 2 (01:24:48):
Like it's something different, like I think, I think interests
of presentation and the message itself. It's cool, it's something
different like these guys back to show people potentially for
to for to make people stop caring at the funds perception,
and to and to fulfill their potential which he had
which he failed during his original run.

Speaker 3 (01:25:10):
Like everybody thought this.

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
Guy can can go somewhere, and he didn't, and now
that he's back, it's it's cool. In terms of presentation,
I think it looks really good like it felt. It
reminds me of the way he presented himself in a
w was as the dam with where he got these
basstage promos.

Speaker 3 (01:25:27):
Where where he was, where he was, the lighting was
very very very very easy.

Speaker 2 (01:25:34):
Don't I don't want to see cinematic, but it was
very interesting and I think these promos have captured a
similar by I'm not sure I want to see where
where he goes next, because all this is a fine start,
but he just if he just keeps on feeling with
lower level guys, I don't think he's going to go

(01:25:55):
that much for.

Speaker 3 (01:25:57):
That that much better.

Speaker 1 (01:25:58):
Yeah, I mean that's the I think they're kind of
just feeling it out. You know, it's a skim. I mean,
they don't have room at the top, so do something
interesting in the meantime and then we'll see if we
have room for you at the top, and how you're getting,
you know, what kind of crowdactions you're getting. But he's
not kind of part of the cool cool kids table
in the lunch room at this point when it comes
to being in the top mix, but there are only

(01:26:19):
so many spots, so he's carving out something different and
it's a way to lay the foundation for maybe something
more later when they're looking for a fresh opponent for
whoever one of the two champions is at that time.

Speaker 9 (01:26:35):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of PWT Talks NXT, the longest
running NXT podcast Anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg,
Bruce Lee, Hazelwood, and special guests live every Tuesday night,
just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good, the bad,
and the ugly on the way to becoming a star
in WWE. Check us out live on YouTube or stream

(01:26:55):
later wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
Uh, what do you think of the main event take match?
And what do you think of the dynamic with first
Ria and Aneo Sky. You know, it was a straightforward match,
Babyface team wins and you're sort of like, oh, there's
going to be a run in or something else, and
nothing happened other than Rere just eyeing the belt, you know,
just kind of indicating that she wants it. But a

(01:27:28):
strong main event match with four women who are very
talented doing their thing what do you think, Oh, this
was a really.

Speaker 2 (01:27:35):
Good many like like one of the best many ways
with not giv in a while like in then, I
was a bit surprised that there was no notion at
against But I want to complain, like I really when
there is so much interferences, you know, every other match,
I really, I'll just enjoy a clean match where the
best thing one because just because they.

Speaker 3 (01:27:57):
Are the better team. I find it a bit odd that.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
Roxanne and Julia have already loved their second match together
and makes me feel like this is not a long
term thing, like they are not going to be at
the attack part of the tact division, like maybe they
will kill it called off, but there won't be. But
but I do like how this was just this this
short mini program so you could put I and Rihea

(01:28:23):
on the same page before having them do a match,
maybe at night of Champions or morning in the bank.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
There's someone noted there was a social media clip of
Julia being rude to rox and Perez when she was saying,
you know, there's that we lost, and Julia said there's
no WII and losing and walked away. So I think
they might already be be breaking them up. If I
read that, if I took it, if I understood correctly

(01:28:50):
the dee. I haven't seen that myself, but yeah, brand
Saloio says, it looks like Roxanne and Julia already broke
up well from online.

Speaker 3 (01:28:59):
Yeah yeah, realist check there's the fight ful reporter says
this is after the match. There is no weed like exactly, Yeah,
I don't think this is. I think this group already
did so.

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
Yeah, good good job, stant innovation, said Receven Black. Else
for Black are doing similar promos at the moment, but
I think Black will come out the more successful one
of these two similar types. There is an ownside of
that too. For a W wrestlers lost in a bit
of an abyss coming in and doing similar promos that
they did in a W, you could argue they're doing
a better here, not by a wide margin, because there's
there's so many similarities. But there's a downside. I mean,

(01:29:34):
if I'm if I'm Roussev, I'm mad at at Black.
If I'm Black, I'm mad at Rusv, Like, hey, let
me have my gimmick. You come up with something fresh.
But that is just a continuation of a W. Any
thoughts on that Maice.

Speaker 2 (01:29:46):
I think I don't think I haven't paid my much
attention to Black's promos, but that that could be an issue.
But right now it feels like I read like raw
and smacked down now separated enough that that's you could
have both guys and not have too much of an issue.
Maybe it was both both of these guys, it would
be a much bigger issue, But right now, I don't

(01:30:07):
think it's too much of a problem.

Speaker 3 (01:30:09):
And I don't think Black is going to cut See.

Speaker 2 (01:30:11):
I think Black is wrestling more often, like he's already
had too matches and he's already a peorary like three times.
I think Blackie is going to have a different flavor
than Russive like in a month.

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
Refer now, Rachel, anything else you want to bring up
for about tonight, otherwise we will We'll sign off.

Speaker 3 (01:30:31):
Let me take it just a quick look. If there
is anything, We'll.

Speaker 1 (01:30:34):
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(01:33:48):
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you go VIP. All right, Maritio, back to anything else
you want to bring up on from wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:34:26):
I just took a quick skin through to the report
I wrote, and it doesn't matter too much. But we
didn't speak of AG sales actually rest in female or like.
It was a fine match. It went way I think
of it too long, seventeen minutes, so you think they
needed to go so long, But I don't think we
may miss anything that important, so that I think that
should be all.

Speaker 1 (01:34:47):
Yeah, you know they would have it would have been
it would have been better years ago. But it was
still good. You know, they're they're good. They're good good
too good veterans.

Speaker 2 (01:34:55):
I mean it was better when they did like TLC
like a long time ago, but they were so a
lot younger. It was a great match. At least we
have that match.

Speaker 3 (01:35:03):
This was this one? Was it that memory?

Speaker 1 (01:35:06):
Yeah? All right, very good show as always thank you
for joining me everyone. Check out his Raw Report at
pw torch dot com. Great analysis there and a good
way to get another perspective on the shows other than
mine on the website and uh we'll talk to you
tomorrow on the podcast audio only side of things for
the Weight Color Podcast, the Jason Paul on the Play
Ship and then Wednesday night the Dynamite Post Show. Thanks

(01:35:27):
again everybody, and thanks for joining us and enjoy your
week bye. Invite you to email the show with feedback

(01:36:05):
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Speaker 6 (01:36:25):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
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