WWE RAW POST-SHOW (5/5): Keller & Maitland discuss Heyman's standout promo, Jey vs. Seth in main event, Pat McAfee mic work, more

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Now PW Torch brings you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling

(01:07):
Post Show.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
It's time to talk this week's WWE Monday Night Raw.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Chris, did you hear a bell ring a few minutes
ago at the end of that main event.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
I think the referee just gave up. He was like,
yeah with chairs, I just I'm gonna go.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
We got cold declaring jabs is still chance.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
It's funny with the show.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
There were so many run ins and attacks. Yeah, I
think the referee was just smart. He's just like, you
know what, I give much craziness today.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
I'm just going to get out of here.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah. I wrote in my report at PW torch dot
com PW Torch VP dot com for a VP members
ad free website version that when they announced that world
title match, how many people? How many viewers? And could
you blame them? We're thinking, well, yeah, there's a world
title match, but I kind of know how this works,
adobe is I mean, I don't don't even think that

(02:02):
hard about it. They just know there's not going to
be a finish. So that's not gonna end Jay's title reign.
Unless you know, there's obviously if you had a personal
issue and you had to like tend to and they
had to do this emergency title change. But barring that rare,
you know, outlier, they're not going to do a title
change this quick. They're not going to do it without
announcing the title match ahead of time, so they announced
the title match, but since they didn't advertise it ahead

(02:24):
of time, that's supposed to make it better to do
a non finish. Also, it's a match where fans, if
you're smart enough, you should know we're not going to
going to give you a finish, so don't be angry
when we don't. I don't know if it matters. I
mean it's I mean, crowd is going nuts for CM Punk.
They weren't like booing the non finish. We've had crowds
that have booed finishes before. I think they're happy to

(02:45):
see the unannounced M Punk. I mean again, I'm not
excusing it, but WWA, I think was conscious. It was
they were cognizant of wanting to like have sort of
excuses for this non finish. Just the DQ finish. There's
cheating by the heels, the baby Face Punk runs in.
He it's a justified you know, saving Jay from this

(03:07):
attack and what bron breaker in you're fing and all that.
So we didn't advertise it. We're gonna make fans happy
with an announced M Punk appearance. Therefore it's okay that
we don't do a finish, especially because you should know better.
Is that enough? I mean, there's been so many non
finishes and run ins in recent weeks, recent months, Really
you start. This was a match. Sorry, but this was

(03:28):
a match where I'm like, they could have gotten more
out of this, And I think that people would be
more accepting of the non finish had they not, had
they been braver with their booking in recent weeks and
months and not relied on the run in no you
know DQ and non non finish announcement or no contests
so often leading up to this made event.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, I think Justin McCollum and I on Restling Coast
to Coast had kind of a an especial question about
wrestling a few weeks ago about these matches that however
long they go, but the real purpose of it is
what happens after the match.

Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
So whether you have a five minute match or a
twenty five minute match, if all that really matters is
what happens in the last you know minute that someone
runs in and maybe two minutes after, how do you
dictate your time?

Speaker 3 (04:12):
So interesting conversation we had there.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
For me, I think it's one of those things with
wwwhere on an individual basis, it's probably it's fine in
this one week this happening, but because it's happened so
often and you had so many run ins on the show.
When Adam Pierce came out with the end, I'm like,
you've done to You shouldn't be worried about guns and
Pat mcavee.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
You need to control your locker room. You've had people
run in on.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Every match on the show, and I think the issue
with this match, and I think their thought process was
we are going to give as good a match as
we can in the main event because we know we're
not going to have a finish. And also, even if
they didn't telegram, even if they didn't tell you, they
Paul Hayman, let me explain why this is so great

(04:55):
for us. There's no one here to come and help him.
They didn't even like leave that out there. They're like, oh,
Sammy's heard, is seeing punk heard? Give it some thought,
you know, they made it even too obvious, and I
think that really heard it. And again I think it's
something that if you do it on a.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
Very rare basis, it's fine.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
I'm someone who isn't doesn't get upset with DQ's and
disqualifications and wrestling. I think they need to be done
at times with certain with certain instances.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
But I think they used it as a crutch in
this match here today.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, so the I want to compliment aspects of this match.
I feel like they needed their scolding for a non
finish in a situation that was entirely predictable. They didn't
advertise the match. You're surprising people see them Punk and
who could have believed there'd be a title change this soon?
You were likely to be skeptical of that anyway. But

(05:47):
that's said, you've got this. We're gonna get into Paul
Hyman's promo. Paul Hayman had a mass for promote earlier.
I think they addressed the issue. They began to address
the issue, well multiple things. Well now I'm addressing it.
Hayman addressed why he turned on Punk and Roman. He
laid it out there. It's the reasons we thought, but
we needed to hear from Hayman saying it. And last
week I was down on seth doing all the talking

(06:08):
and we didn't get to that, and I didn't feel
like we could move on until Hayman made his case.
But he did so in a way which we'll delve
into later that I thought because of what not only
just because what he said. It's kind of like Drew
McIntyre and other heels like kind of in Becky. It's like, Okay,
I see what he's saying. But the way he went
about it and the way he talked about Omaha and all,
you know, like the inflections and all that, it worked.

(06:31):
So he got the crowd to turn against him. But
then on the show, when Hayman walked, the camera followed
Haymen into the locker room, and the crowd is booing,
and then as soon as Seth was standing there in
the picture, they started cheering. So I'm like, Okay, they're
booing Hayman, which is good because he was really over
as a babyface for a while there. But they're still

(06:52):
cheering Seth. Then during the title match, Hayman starts singing
Seth's song in a way that makes you never want
to hear or sing Seth's song again. So I do
believe there's an effort being made to genuinely get the
crowd to boo the heels, which is something a lot
of heel groups don't get, you know, I mean, like
MVP and her business and her sydicator are at times
like when they're supposed to be heal going wiring't people

(07:13):
booing us because you're doing everything you can to get
them to cheer you. Now they're just kind of tween
your babyfaces. So we had a dynamic here with a
big time over babyface and Jay Usso I think the
crowd genuinely is into this underdog story and in standing
opposite a Hayman who's just superhelish, making Jay more likable,

(07:34):
Jay stands up to him at the top of the show,
and then at the end of the show, the crowd
just totally into Jay and got into the match in
the way that you want fans to get into a
World tot Of match with a babyface champion and a
heel opponent. And they had a really good match. So
there was a lot of good here. It's just I
mean asterisk you know, or not even aster you gotta
you know, bleed with the idea that yet it's another

(07:55):
time that no one should have really believed there'd be
a finish or that would be very unlikely. But a
lot of other things while on the show, and I
thought it was a very exciting, high quality high trauma,
big crowd involvement, TV main event.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Chris your thoughts, Yeah, I think the quality of the
match really stood out.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
I thought it was really good.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
I mean, I think there's a lot of conversations about
jay Uso Babyface single wrestler and the real purpose of it,
and it's not how many moves they can do, is
like whether the crowd is invested in you winning.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
I ho the crowd overall in Omaha.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Was great, not just in this match, but overall just
the way they were reacting to the show and not
reacting to other things or whatever they felt they should
they wanted to do to amuse themselves, and I think
the effort that they put in that's again bring up
our own podcast. But the thing that we always on
our show is how the main events need to stand
out because you've waited long for it, and if the

(08:53):
main event is not as good as the third match,
then why have I sat every three hours? And so
I think really much on this show show the main
events stood out was really good action and again as
much as we just criticized to finish, it leads us
some intrigue going forward with you know where where see
them Punk Where you know, where's Roman Reigns In all

(09:14):
this almost you can see Javis was saying, see them
podcast my back, where were you Sammy's a and obviously
came back after what happened last week, So I think
that they put themselves in a good position to have
some angles going forward, going forward.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
All right, there's some comments in the chat I want
to get to that are bringing up other aspects of
this match. A couple of things related to what you
just said, Chris. We'll do that right after we do
an introduction here and kind of set the table for
the show. You can support us on Patreon and get
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Prosing Podcast, Weight Keller Prossing post shows and the PW

(09:50):
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(10:10):
through Patreon. This is a way Keller prog Wrestling Post
Show from Monday May fifth, twenty twenty five. I'm way Keller,
host of the show, editor, publisher and founder of the
Progressing Torch weekly newsletter and the website pwtorch dot com,
and also the host of various podcasts, including the way
Keller post shows, which are on our Wadkeller podcast feed
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(10:32):
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(10:53):
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Subscribe to that too, please. That's our main podcast. Tomorrow.
The plan is for PW Torch vpanolist Rich Fan to
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It'll be a simulcast of our regular weekly show Everything

(11:16):
with Rich and Wade. That is a VPP exclusive when
we're not simulcasting it as a flagship every three or
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I think it's only been a couple weeks this time,
but a little sooner than usual. And we invite your emails.
Weadkeller Podcast at gmail dot com. Wade Keller Podcast at
gmail dot com. Not only for tonight's show. If you're
watching us live on YouTube, we'll check the inbox for

(11:37):
your emails and maybe have time to include them in
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Wadekeller Podcast at email dot com. But we are here

(12:03):
to talk raw and my special guest co host is
Chris Maitland. We already put his podcast log on the screen.
He already mentioned it Wrestling Coast to Coast. Chris, Welcome
to the show. I know you're in a good mood
and I want to give a moment for people to

(12:24):
fast forward a minute if you're a sports fan and
you don't want to know why Chris is in a
good mood. So I've talked slowly and told you to
fast forward like two minutes, because we might talk NBA
for a minute. Typically we very much shy away because
some people will watch raw alive and then watch a

(12:45):
sporting event later. So, Chris, why don't you know that
we've given fair morning reveal to everybody what who your
team is and why you're in a good mood.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
I have a lot of teams.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
I'm actually wearing a Jets sweatshirt and it's the playoffs
of the Jets haven't made long time. But I'm a
fan of the New York Knicks. They're my first favorite team.
They are like probably the most special team for me
growing up in New York because I didn't have to
pick between the other teams. And they won Game one
today the Eastern Conference semi Finals against the Boston Celtics.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
The Mighty Boston Celtics.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yeah, the defending champion.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
The Knicks didn't be the Celtics at all during the
regular season other than the last game they lost by
pretty much twenty every game, and the Celtics wull a
twenty point lead. They shot sixty three pointers NBA record
sixty three in the game, and they hit fifteen of them,
which is for math majors out there as twenty five percent.
But yeah, they had a good win and a great

(13:41):
way to start the second round. The Knicks stat nick's
third longest drought of making the conference finals in the NBA,
so hopefully they can win three more games and put.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
An end to that.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
So we did talk NBA. I want to restate our rules.
This is an exception. There will be times and my
Timberwoos or others Vikings or wild are playing a big
game and I'm doing my job watching Row Dynamiter SmackDown
and then hosting a post show, and so I want
to let everybody know please don't ever email or put

(14:13):
in the chat or mention if you're a live caller,
any spoilers. I don't even like to draw attention to it,
like I just rather just but I think I have
to like, especially because we're it's a topic here. I
want to see a Timberwolves Nick's NBA Finals this year,
and it's crazy, but it's it's can't roll it out
right now. Especially with the Nicks winning tonight, it kind
of tips things a little bit more of that direction

(14:33):
than it looked like yesterday. So yeah, so it could
be fun, but yeah, please, I.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Don't think the Timberwolves would be Golden State if I
would make a prediction. I think too much size and
too many, too many players.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
But yeah, I mean, I'm a Timbers fan, but I'm
I mean, I'm not I'm I'm not confident, but I
mean I'm I'm leaning that way for sure. I mean,
the Wolves are really good right now, and they have
so many ways to beat their opponents, but we won't.
I could go on and I'll stop myself there. We
could talk. Well save this for later. I think we
went past our minute into the three minute, four minute marange.

(15:07):
I don't even know. But Karl Anthony Towns and and
uh being on the Knicks right now makes me a
Knicks fan because I like Carl. I don't want him
on my team anymore. But but I'm happy with you.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
I'm happy the same way.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, the foul, the pretendency
to foul, the you know we called it has a
term stray voltage made it to New York.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
I don't know, but it's one of those you mean,
when he tries to throw up a shot to get
fouled and then yeah, yeah, today he did that, and
ye the Celtic is five on four because he's he's
on the back, on the other.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Side of the court, and it's like, yeah, Carl's great
at times and history point shooting mate, but there are
times where it's like, come on. So I'm enjoying watching
him from a little more of a distance in New York.
I'm rooting for him, but but I'm happy with h
Julius adding and Divi Divioncenzo adding some some grit. Anyway,

(16:07):
we'll pivot back to our raw discussion. I noted we
had some chet comments. I'm gonna go to those, and
then we'll get to our callers on hold. So if
you're on hold, don't worry. We'll get to pretty quick here.
If you want to be a caller, by the way,
you have to be a Patreon supporter and you can
find the link to be a video caller on our
Patreon page. P w tors vi ip is uh is

(16:28):
where you go if you want to support us through
Patreon or through Spotify. You can do that too, or
you become a full VIP member pw Torch dot com
slash go VIP. We'll give you full details on that
in my TV report on the VIP version of the website,
I include the link to also be a video caller.
So we'd love to have you part of the show,
but we want to limit how many people make it

(16:50):
kind of exclusive, so don't get overwhelmed and make it
just for VIP members. Okay, So the chat had a
lot of things say about this main event before we
started talking about it, and after words, I like this
good Fella fourteen twenty two says, halfway through the main event,
I kind of shifted and was thinking they're gonna do
a title change, fun match, and was messy. I'm as

(17:10):
much as I said, if you're savvy, you know they're
not gonna you know they're unlikely to do a title change.
I stayed unlikely. But I watched that match, and I
wasn't entirely ruining it out like I was processing in
my head, well, maybe if there's the right kind of interference,
especially when Punk came up sethe'll lose and that'll enrage
Hayman and stuff and we'll get a finished or before

(17:31):
Punk came up, maybe they are gonna like try to
give power immediately to this new Hayman faction and have
Jay louse and have him be the underdog on the
chase again, and that just shifts the low. I mean,
it certainly would change backlash and that you know, if
you think it through, it's like not likely to not
do that, but I mean it crossed my mind. It
was a fleeting thought. I wouldn't have put any money

(17:52):
on it didn't, but I'm kind of with goodfella in
that I would kind of get wrapped up in the
drama as much as I was also frustrated by the
fact that, you know, I don't frustrate his word, but
like kind of like, yeah, more interference and of course
nothing happened. Nothing matters in a match until there's interference.
You know, do By teaches you that, and most likely
on TV, you're not going to get a finish if
it's a truly competitive match where the booker would have

(18:14):
to make a tough call on who to do a
clean job, even for mid carters. It's if it's a
tough call Paula Eck won't want book clean finish, and
if it's if they're even on the roster. So, Chris,
tell me about your kind of emotions watching it. Did
they kind of pull you into some of the near
falls because I thought, you know, setting aside all the
baggage and the knowledge we have a Pall Bay book,

(18:34):
I thought they did a really good job telling that
story and creating drama.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
Yeah. I thought it was possible. Definitely.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
When Seth hit the stomp and it wasn't that great,
I was like, oh, this might be setting up for
him to actually hit it, maybe properly, and actually get
the win. So I think that's that's the story of
what a good match will will we'll bring to you.
You you have your own preconceptions going in, but the
way they actually wrestle it changed what you thought. So yeah,

(19:02):
I think they a really good job of building building drama.
Once Sammy's Ain came out with you, hey, you can't
tangle bron Baked bron Breaker, I kind of knew that
the end was coming. I kind of wish the finish
was more. I guess it's kind of hard because the
Heels are not going to cheat knowingly to get disqualified,

(19:24):
and they don't want the baby faces to come down
and attack the heels. You'll see them punk it says,
the wrongs with a chair. They need to make that
atle bit more, just make it cleaner about how it ended.
You know, maybe a no contest, maybe a brawl and
the referee you have to throw it out or maybe
you know, back in the All Japan New Japan eighties,

(19:45):
double count out because they're fighting on the right outside.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
I know, yeah, I'll take I'll take any of that.
I I really do think it's disrespectful to not have
a bell ring at the end of a world title
match when you're on It's not like they ran out
of time. Their time is their exit time is soft
on Netflix. Yeah, I think they should have done that.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
Maybe something like that would have been better, just sort
of like it's too chaotic. They're resting outside and you
can still got to the same point, but just make
a clearer finish.

Speaker 4 (20:13):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
podcast NXT eight years back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 5 (20:29):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out, exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Ryan Selario said, while you were talking, or as you're talking,
he made the same point you did, which is not
gonna lie bit on the splash and the stop lol.
The stop well, the stomp being a little bit sloppy
and couldoring attention to it. I don't think that was planned,
but I was thinking, well, maybe he'll, you know, do
it now. Also, Derek Hubbard says the main event was
so white hot. I did not mind the non finish.

(21:06):
He posted this before we maybe convinced him to dislike it.
I would not mind Seth taking a tainted loss. But
this worked on multiple fronts. I wish they did it
less often, but tonight it worked. And that's the thing.
So two things to fix this. One do clean finishes
almost all the time. Otherwise when you do this, don't
announce it ahead.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
Of time.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
And then ring and then ring the bell like give
us a decision. Double count out the refs dqu'ed seth.
The ref is DQJ, the ref is dq' both. Even
a no contest is just too chaotic. But announce the
damn decision and ring the bell, and that's giving them
a lot of slack. I would rather they just do
a finish, but but I understand the way that would

(21:46):
be books. That's not how they do things, and it
would people would read it a lot into it. But
if you start doing it regularly two years from now,
nobody's going to read into it. That's going to be standard.
You know that people think the Celtics are great even
if they lose a game, you know. I mean, like
some really good teams are gonna lose in the NBA playoffs,
who easily could have, you know, won the championship. A
couple of things broke their way. Same in the NHL,

(22:07):
which is even more of a game of chance. But
doesn't mean people think the teams stink. They just, you know,
that's the way it works. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
So I wish, though Who's booking did more of that.
But you know, Derek said they won them over because
it was super exciting, and I mean a lot of
people have this kind of baked into their WWB experience.

(22:28):
You know, they they don't expect a clean finish and
so they're not angry. And I don't think that's ideal
to beat your audience down where they don't think they're
going to get a finish. But I get that it
might not be new frustration. In fact, Al Larcher in
the chat said, my expectations of TV wrestling is non
finished by default. It's been that format for like thirty years.

(22:49):
Durrell said, Jay showed up to show tonight that you
can make the fans get behind a baby face champ
and not turn on him going against cool heels. Chris
talk about that. What does it seem to be is
deliberately now trying to get Jay just in general, trying
to get babyfaces clearly slotted to be cheered against heels,

(23:12):
clearly slated to be booed. I mean, I thought tonight
it showed like there were instances of that with Hyman
mockingly SINGINGSS song and really going hard on bashing Rains
and Punk in the context of insulting the fans. I mean,
I think this was an attempt to correct course on
what I expressed concern for the last couple of weeks
on this show, which is especially when they're singing sass

(23:34):
song and cheering them. Last week, I was like, they
need to make a deliberate plan and effort to counter
the fans' instincts, which is to cheer moments and stars
and happenings and especially moments. And finally it seemed like
they're They seemed like their goal is, yeah, let's get
the heels boot.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yeah. I think that's really important in wrestling.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
And again, I don't know if some of that that
happened last week and before was kind of a WrestleMania
hang over. I think, to me, that's a sign whenever
the crowd goes into business for themselves, that means they're
not interested in whatever you're presenting and they decided to
act on their own. I think it's really important that
the people are behind jay Uso or whoever the babyfaces are.

(24:14):
I would say Eo Sky as well got a pretty
big base when she was wrestling, and I think that's
really important even to.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
You know, guns, there was a huge heel.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
People were booing him, people were booing Russeph when he
attacked Alpha Academy.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
After the match. I think, yeah, you're watching a show.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
I know, you know, wrestling is a bit different the
ways portrayed than it was, you know, thirty forty years ago.
But while you're immersed in that, you want people to
be watching what you're they're seeing, and I think of
other things and I think w Away from WrestleMania is
trying to get back to that and hopefully that continues
over the next few weeks.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Chris Johnson in the chat said, really smart way to
come back from the mess. At the end of the
show last week, Standard Deviation said it helps to have
a clearly defined babyface and Jay. The crowd was hot
for j Seth. Dwane Carpenter said he was disappointed they
didn't put the belt back on Seth. Yeah, I don't.
I mean they've got things laid out with with Jay.

(25:12):
I don't think that's something that they're they're gonna do
not at this stage, But I mean, can one hundred
percent rule out there, like yeah, we just want to
make Seth in the Hayman Group strong. Chris Johnson said
fun matches tonight. I thought it was a great show.
Standard Deviation adding Paul singing at ringside was perfectly annoying.
Glynn B said, I honestly thought at one point or

(25:34):
hope Sammy would turn on Jay and cost him the title.
Did that cross your mind, by the way, that that
Sammy might come out ostensibly for save but actually like
give in to you know, he got beat down so bad.
If you can't beat him, join him that kind of mentality.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Not after one week, I think that wouldn't make a
lot of sense. I think the one thing I think
about three characters on the show, Sammy's ay and Jay
Usso and EO Sky's like they are just like their characters,
like they're like likable people. It's honest, good people that
you'd want, you know. They they'd helped mow your lawn
if you were sick, you know something like that. Yeah,
I think that's their character. And then so he wouldn't

(26:10):
do that. I mean, you know, he may turn him
down the line, but that's what like Kevin Owens would do.
Kevin Owens would take the offer and and to be
the champion. That's not what sammy'say is. He doesn't want
to win the title that way.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah, the chat is forgiving of this finish. I'll read
a few more comments here, Linda Butler says the crowd
was much more aligned with what Doby wants this week.
It feels like, so yep, I agree with that. That
is uh, I think true, and it's good. You know,
you listed Chris all the reactions tonight that were in line,

(26:44):
and you just you want that at a main event
level too. And then they just you know, going into
the Restumenia, they intentionally blurred the lines because you know,
it's not just matches that are there to fill time
until what really matters is the out is what happens afterwards,
as you're talking about on your show, it's also whole
storylines sometimes lead to a match and it's not the
match that matters, it's the angle coming out of it.

(27:06):
And that's what I said weeks, you know, for weeks
going into Wresumania that Seth and Punk in Roman, it
is not about the finish of the match going in,
it's what the finish of the match would mean coming
out of it. It's you know, because we're always in
a title at stake, and they did their best to
create you know, Seth saying I'll rule the world and

(27:26):
you know, really go to universe. Whatever if I win.
It was sort of vague. People thatn't know what it meant.
It would take the match itself in the angle to
explain it. But if they can clean that up too,
and kind of get past Rusumania season, the muck of
Arsumania season and the need to put top people in
top matches and tell that story and get past the
Muka the biancar Rhea stuff too, which was which was
not not great. Those two things especially can get things

(27:49):
back on track. Glenn B said, I didn't mind the end.
The Heels have destroyed the faces in prior weeks faces
and come out and say fellow face from Heel group attacks.
Wouldn't want it too often though, Boy, isn't that the key?
But the thing is we get it often when it's
free standy Aviation City. I wasn't completely sure of a
non finished The history between Paul Hyman and Jay opened
a small possibility for something to make sense if they

(28:10):
wanted to. Derek Mitchell said, just never felt that Seth
was going to win the title tonight. It seems too
early to me, and I thought Punk was going to interfere,
especially in Omaha, Nebraska.

Speaker 6 (28:22):
C J.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
LaChapelle says, I hate when they don't ring the bell
and the ring announcer does not announce anything at the end.
That is an annoyance for me too, for sure. Standary
Aviation says, say, maybe they should have just had more
clean finishes earlier in the show. That had been a
dead giveaway to me, you know, because we know Dodie's formula.
You used to be a little more form me Lake
with Vince. With Leveck, we're still kind of figuring things out.
I think he's still, you know, working through what habits

(28:43):
he's going to have or steadfastly versus what he's going
to be willing to break and shake up. But all
clean finishes leading up to this match, what it would
have been, I think positive. But that's that takes some
great booking could be tough. Standard Aviation said, if you
know the event is ending in a non finished you
shouldn't do the same thing earlier in the show. So
underlining that point, Jason D in Australia says, I had

(29:06):
no problem with the unfinished. The problem was with Seth
who didn't cover j before Punk made it to the ring.
He should have been quick. Reugh count, Yeah, you want
wrestlers with high stakes world title, especially to act logically, right, Chris,
you want them to not yet, Oh my god, he's
not supposed to be here. It's like just run across
the finish.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yeah. Yeah, I never understood why the music playing.

Speaker 6 (29:26):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
We covered her fapy listeners Saboo's last match against Joe
Janella at GCW, which had a Sandman running to take
us back to East w Day's and sam Man's to
the balcony drinking beer, taking forever, and then the Kolger
Brothers came in and attacked Saboo and they're just like,
oh my goodness, when's he gonna come? And twenty minutes
later you make it to the ring. I feel that

(29:49):
was kind of the start of that, the music and
everyone being scared. But you only need three seconds to
beat someone. If they're gonna swazunter outside the ring, just
pin them.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yep, yep, all right, uh double uh, let's bring up
George Lan's come. We're getting callers are right after this.
George Lance's double d Q works and they need to
bring back time limit draws rage kate the audience with
things that have worked in wrestling forever. There is a
story that comes out of a double DQ, so the
thing just make it a decision like announced, announce a decision,
own it they and I don't think. I think they

(30:19):
do it because they don't want to, but they also
like they don't want to have to commit to a
finish because they think there's some negativity attached to overtly
announcing it. And they also just don't want to distract
from the moment. Fans are cheering Punk keep bashed Seth,
and Seth is mad and Hayman is fun and they're retreating,
so they don't want to interfere with the technicality of
announcing an outcome. But you you have to announce an outcome.
You don't break away from a sporting event without showing

(30:40):
the scoreboard, and that's what DoD B does too often.
Derek Mitchells has and never thought Seth would win the
world title in an unadvertised match, so I figured see
them Punk would come out and interfere. Yep, good call
and I mean understandably potentially predictable. And uh, I don't
think there's anything else here. Oh just Chris Johnson just said,

(31:02):
I wonder if the Ja Seth match was planned before
last week's debacle. They used Jay's baby face heat to
refocus things. I mean, it did feel refocused. I felt
like this week was a bit of reaction to what
didn't go right last week or some of the criticism,
you know. I feel like this show did address a
lot of things we brought up last week. I'll put
it that way. And I don't think we're alone in
thinking that things. Some of the things that we expressed,

(31:24):
Hopefully we had some thoughts others didn't have. But I
think some of the sentiment was pretty consistent that some
things needed to be cleaned up, and this did think
this did. Other than the non finished that we're talking
a lot about, I think we moved in a good direction.
Thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next
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(31:45):
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Speaker 3 (32:17):
So j Oh.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
By the way, Jason D says, if the announcer says
it's a double DQ, the crowd boos instead, you leave
the crowd on a high with punk. It's totally right.
I mean, that's that's what I'm saying. That's that's w's
reason for doing it. So you have to decide do
we want that crescendo of cheers at the end of
a TV show at the expense of the core structure
of wrestling over the long run, which is there's a
score and we announce it, and if you go, we're

(32:40):
not going to do it in order to, you know,
have an emotional crescendo of cheers to go off the air.
That's fine. I think you can do have it both ways.
So I think you can have Cole say that this
is clearly a double DQ, but Jay retains the title
or you know whatever, and then have the bell ring. Well,

(33:04):
but you have to before Cole announced it. You have
to have the bell ring, but you could have the
bell ring but not announce the official decision to the crowd.
So the crowd's still cheering. But Cole says the ref
has infor me. It's a double dq. When order is restored,
it'll be announced to the crowd. I mean you could
do something along those lines. So you're kind of checking
the boxes.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah, yeah, I definitely have the bell ring so it's
over and you don't have to announce it on the show.
Has another existential crisis that I've discussed with Justin, which
is wrestling as a TV product as opposed to a
live show. Watching a lot of different promotions every week,
there's something that we're like, oh, we'd love to see

(33:44):
them live, and some you know, we prefer on TV.
But you know, since wrestling now the companies and major
companies get most of their money from TV, it is
geared toward the TV audience, and you're homing the crowd
can acquiesce to a good show at the OUTED in Omaha.
I myself very interested because I will be attending my
first WE show in oh gosh, seven years. Just just

(34:09):
and I are going to SmackDown, which apparently is not
sold out because they're advertising throughout the show. But we're
going to uh smack Down on Friday to see h
John Seena's last appearance in Day in the While.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
Who's going to be our onside correspondent that night.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
I guess I can call in.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
I mean, if if you have reception, if you can, I'll.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Tell me, yeah, I gotta, I gotta. I can probably
do that. We can talk about that. I have an
hour drive back to Columbus, so.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah, well keep you along if you got to focus
on the road. By the way, if you want to
be an on side correspondent, we'd love to hear from
you if you attend shows. We don't like to do it. Well,
we don't want to do it all the time, so
I don't plug it all that often because you know,
I think we can get the gist of it doing
it every once in a while. But let us know.
If you're attending a show, we'd love to bring you
on as an onside correspondent, talk about crowdration, things that

(34:54):
happen off air, give us a vibe in the building.
We used to do it almost every week. I guess
I would do that we can keep it short. If
we think we're there's not a lot going, not a
lot to say, so email me if you're if you
are attending a raw DYNA matter or smacked out and
want to be on the show afterwards, or can be
on the show. Weadkeller podcast at gmail dot com. Weadkeller
podcast at gmail dot com. So it is, it is
always fun to hear like the in person perspective compared

(35:16):
to TV. Chris, you know, do you feel like you're
a prop for a TV show? Sometimes? That was what
it felt like for a while with WWE. That was
a theme I think kind of pre pandemic. That was
a big thing that we're starting to talk about, and
then things kind of changed. So anyway, so let's get
to our callers and we'll go to Thunder skydanswer first,
and then after that is Rivers on Deck Thunder Welcome,

(35:38):
good to see you. What's yeah, what's on your mind
about Row tonight?

Speaker 7 (35:43):
I actually I was very happy with Raw. I was
a lot more happier than I was last week. I
don't say that I was lucky, y'all. I was like, oh,
thank good. Whenever they're turned heels and i' might look.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Like is it okay? This thing good?

Speaker 7 (36:02):
And I'm not. It was like it seemed to work.
Paul him and by himself worked. I wish I really
wish he would just keep him as their fate, you know,
kind of the voice where he's coming out there, not
sept Frawens, because it seems like every comes apt Frowens
comes out he's treated.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
I think they're working on that. I hope they are
working on that. Maybe maybe it might take four or
six weeks, but I think they can ship away at that, Chris,
real quick? Do you think they can ship away at that?

Speaker 3 (36:29):
Yeah? I think.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Also adding to that as well, they didn't have I
mean brawn breaker was wearing a jacket his dad wore
probably about thirty years ago, but a lot less barking.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
And a lot less playing to the crowd.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
He's almost subdued at ringside, I think to not get
you know, a baby face reacting for what he did.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (36:51):
The inner thing is I thought that they did really well?
Was they establish they did? It's Jane And I think
that really helped him Big Tom because Jay is super
over love it or hate it, and sometimes I question
if it's his skills or if it's just yet and

(37:11):
that's it. But I mean they did a drop person
and I think that helped Big Tom. But I have
one question about Paul Hayman when he came out there earlier.
I don't know if it was just my TV or what,
but his face looked red as a be and it

(37:33):
made me wonder about okay, is he okay?

Speaker 8 (37:37):
Well.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Pat McAfee noted that both bron Breaker and Paul Hyman
looked like they just got back from a trip to
the sun. There's a lot there is a red red
Sprays hand pandemic going around pro wrestling, and people take
take digs at it. I could be makeup too. I
don't know if he's going for it. I mean, it
was like really in a rage in that opening segment,
and maybe thinks it adds to it, but I don't know. Chris,

(38:00):
what do you think of skin tone these days?

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yeah, it's weird. I don't know the reason why he
does it. His voice did crack the beginning of his
promo and when he was getting fired up, he did
you know jay Us. We was like, are you okay?
And I thought you just asked legitimately, are you.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Okay, yeah, just because his eyes are bulging out everything.
He was so intense and Jay's sort of like listening.
But then, you know, nothing deflates somebody after a rant,
like an angry rant, than the person just looking at them,
pausing and going are you okay? Like it sort of
means like you've so overreacted. I don't even know what
you said or care what you said. I'd worried about
your health, and that is kind of what Jay was

(38:40):
going for.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah, so yeah, he didn't seem to be Yeah, the
skin tone was kind of odd. I don't know, it's
not necessary for him. You know, he's not he's not wrestling,
he's just standing out there. So maybe he can, for
lack of better words, tone it down next time.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
I see what you did there?

Speaker 3 (38:57):
All right?

Speaker 1 (38:58):
What else?

Speaker 3 (38:59):
Okay?

Speaker 7 (38:59):
One saying I'm gonna keep you along. But the okay,
in the mind of it, you have bron Breaker who's
super over, and you have jay Us who's super over.
Jay Us uses the spirit, bait Breaker uses the spirit,
Roman Rings uses the spirit. Would it be a good

(39:21):
idea for Paul to say, Hey, one of y'all has
this change all finishers or one of y'all has to
do something because we have too many people using it,
because bron Breaker is a super special talent that I
think deserves that spirit more. I mean, and I'm a
huge Rouman Rings fans, Don't get me wrong, I'm one
of the biggest rum Rings fans. The bron Breaker spirit

(39:45):
is unmatched, and when he does a spirit and then
Jay Ushow does two spirits, It's like, Okay, what are
we doing here?

Speaker 1 (39:55):
So I'll say it's not a top concern for me,
But I don't just count it as a negative unless
it's the battle of spears, you know, like you can
if you can market it because two people have sort
of been on a collision course and now they're finally colliding,
it's I mean, you can make it a marketing item.
But even if it's not, I think you can just

(40:16):
fully tell a story, get the crowd invested in the
heel baby face dynamic and the high stakes. And if
they both happen to have the same move that they use.
I mean, Jay's got the frog splash that sort of
you know, is bigger than that Roman and Breaker probably
is one of those instances Chris that it'll be the
battle of two spears when they finally go after Echo.

(40:36):
I mean, I think bron Breaker is with Paul Hayman
right now because he'll be headlining a WrestleMania over the
next couple years against Roman Reigns one on one, and
I think they will market the idea of the you know,
range sphere versus the super sphere. So Chris, yeah, you're
your thoughts on what that it brings up.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, I agree with you, But I feel like the
spear has become one of these moves where it's almost
like it's not a special as it used to be.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
Averybody does it.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
It's almost like I remember the kids, only Jacob robertson
the DDT, and now DDT's done. Every bat Goldberg did
the spear to you know, how many people do the
spear in w plus and other promotions. There are every
promote another about four or five people that do a spear.
I think you could sell in Roman versus Braun as
like a battle of the spears, because you know, they're
both forty players in college. But it's just one of

(41:23):
those moves that just isn't because a lot of people
do it, it just doesn't have the same kind of uh,
you know power that it had, you know, maybe when
it was just Bill Goldberg.

Speaker 8 (41:41):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of p w T Talks NXT,
the longest running NXT podcast anywhere. Join me along with
Nate Lindberg, Bruce Lee, Hazelwood and special guests, live every
Tuesday night, just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good,
the bad, and the ugly on the way to becoming
a star in WWE. Check us out I have on
YouTube or stream later wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Alright, Thunder, all right, that's all I have. Thanks appreciate.

Speaker 7 (42:15):
I'm went VIP and I love it and thank.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
You, thank you. What do you love about it?

Speaker 7 (42:19):
I just loved you know. I love the all the
archives and stuff that I'm using the Patreon versions and
won't be listening back and it's gonna be a lot
of fun.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Sweet, awesome, welcome. Good to have you. Thank you, Thunder.
Thanks you your week. I remember you can be a VP.
You could be a caller if you're a VP member
or patron supporter. Pw torch dot com slash go vip
gives you full details on that. Pete w torch dot
com slash go vi p don't forget. You can get
a ton of cool content at petew torch dot com

(42:50):
on a daily basis. We've got some really talented writers
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Lansdell who's been doing a great job cover ring the
latest new Japan events. We've got hits and missus columns.
We've got our few tracker columns. We also have a
Rising Star and Fading Star columns on AWNWW that went

(43:11):
up this morning with our columnist deciding who had a
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had a bad week or series of weeks and it's
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has his his columns that run once a week on
the website in addition to his longer future columns in

(43:32):
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on there too, and some good ratings analysis. We had

(43:54):
actually the minute by minutes of Collision from just over
a week ago when they followed the NBA and they
hop that big viewership number, and I was waiting to
get the minute by minutes to kind of see how
much did the carryover the MBA audience not tuning out
affect that number. And I broke down, you know, wen,
it was a factor, but how big of a factor
was it? And looked at what the rating was in

(44:15):
the last half hour compared to normal and compared to
the first fifteen to twenty thirty minutes. So anyway, it's
kind of fun to get the minute by minutes. It's
interesting to see those trends in a granular way. We
don't do that every week, but when it calls for it,
we do it. So anyway, lots of cool exclusive stuff.
It'll make you think and it's entertaining, and I know
I always look forward to proof reading as editor the

(44:35):
columns as they come in. We've got a really talented
group all right on the rivers as promised rivers.

Speaker 9 (44:42):
Welcome, Hey guys, how are you doing tonight?

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Good? Yeah, what's on your mind about rot tonaighty?

Speaker 9 (44:47):
Well? First of all, little known fact really gets a
tax break for hiring ADHD referees, so that is why
they do not count. When music is playing, they get distracted.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (45:00):
Oh, for just what a relief it is to see
a show without Seena, and I like Seena a video
package with Orton, but I think you and Todd on
the fix and done a really good job but articulating
how his whole thing at the moment is world breaking
and it kind of ruins the rest of the show

(45:22):
around it just by being there. So to have a
show which was just pro wrestling, I didn't have to
think about backstage politics or anything like that. It was
a relief and I really enjoyed that.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
I think that's a good point. This wasn't I'm trying
to think. Was there any like meta stuff on this show?
I mean, Becky made a comment about a fiance. I
mean that's just like personal life stuff. But yeah, I
don't know. I mean I'd have to think through but
it was. I mean, I didn't nothing jumped out to
me during the show where it's like, oh, they're playing
to that second, that second layer fan that Paul beck
talked about on and Show's podcast. You know, it's like there, well,

(45:57):
there's a you know, the more regular, the regular fan
watching TV, but the ones who want to find out
everything going on, and we cater to them. I didn't
feel that I was hearing it. It felt like a
better experience as for any viewer because of it.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
Yeah. The only thing I didn't like.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
In the lie of al Care Becky Lynch, you know,
I'm here every week. I hate that Ot mcav too
is like they did that. You know, this is just
a job to you. I'm like, Pat mcavee, are you
here for free?

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Yeah? You know.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
But other than that, Yeah, yeah, and that's I think
it's that's not super meta. Fortunately it it is. It's
in the category if you should value somebody based on
how when they show up on TV, which is fine
if you don't have top tier baby faces who are
part time, but it can backfire and I think you
want people not thinking about that stuff. And Doty does

(46:50):
bring it up too much. Yeah, I don't. I mean
Lira bringing up you know, I've I've defended my title
more times than you've even appeared on TV.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
This year. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
I don't think that gets her people like, well, Becky's
a senior member of the roster, she was out injured,
he was with her family, she had vacation time. I mean, whatever,
it's like that. It should be what Becky does, not
how often she does it that causes you to boo her.
I think every once in a while you can sort
of have like a workhorse wrestler or Michael Michael Cole,
by the way, takes some time off. My god, he's

(47:20):
like the statistic that McAfee said, only three times in
twenty eight years has he actually taken a week off.
I mean, I don't know. I mean, I'm like, good
for coal, but also come on, like, what's what's wrong
with that? Would be that they don't force him to
take so extra weeks off from travel. That's a lot
of travel, all right. Anyway, River's back you, I.

Speaker 9 (47:38):
Think, hopefully to reset as far as that whole world
breaking kind of storyline goes.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
It seemed like it.

Speaker 9 (47:45):
But I have a fear that for some people in
management right now, that's actually the goal. It isn't a
mistake that they made. I think that they think that
is the evolution of wrestling, which I disagree with.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
Yeah, I think they do too, but I think they're wrong,
and I think we could be part of putting the
word out that that's a wrong perspective.

Speaker 9 (48:05):
Yes, I mean, I will say I almost turned off
Wrestlemaniu when they announced the writing the writers documentary. I
was like, Oh, that was almost it. I think. I
think I'm a pretty savvy fan, but I was not
sure that Jay was going to win, and I think
a big part of that is a benefit of him

(48:27):
beating Gunter. I always thought was He's not a prospect
that you have to protect like Gunta was, has to
be a big deal when he loses, and he also
doesn't have the real title that they really care about.
So I think any match with Jay will be exciting
because I honestly think at any point they could take

(48:48):
it off of him, whereas John, you know it's going
to be a big pay per view, you know it's
going to go on to something. I wouldn't have been surprised,
and I think that's a huge benefit of having Jay
as the champion over Gunta.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
What do you think got Chris, Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
I think just the way his character, he can be
someone that you were concerned about losing. But also in
this case, I think it's not just the fact that
you think jay Us is going to lose, but also
seth Rowns being the star that he is and this
new faction being one that people would think was going
to be propelled at the top immediately a better way
to propel them to the top than have him as

(49:24):
the world champions. I think that helped add to that
drama as well.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Mark did.

Speaker 9 (49:31):
Just go back to Becky. She I was kind of
half listening in the other room. She kept talking about
taking out the trash and I was like, Oh, you
really like this analogy, Becky, this is like the fifth time.
And then when she said I also took out the recycling,
I was like, Wow, you're really getting a new trash
men gimmick. But I just wanted to ask, when a

(49:51):
liar was talking about going on your holidays as Americans,
did you follow what that meant? Because okay, because that's
the w that I often use. And then people are thinking,
like what Memorial Day, and I'm like, no, it means sorry,
it means vacation.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
My parents are English, so oh perfectly.

Speaker 9 (50:14):
How many Americans, how many Americans was thrown by that,
like you going on your holidays.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
We don't use that term, and you're right, we you know,
holiday to us is is uh is a date on
the calendar that is celebrated for some reason. But I
think we hear it enough just through I don't I
don't TV shows from the UK. We hear it enough
that it's sort of in our culture, is something something
we're aware of. I'm you know, we hear mate and

(50:41):
we don't think, oh, that's somebody that you live with
and is your partner and boyfriend, girl or whatever. It's
like we get that that's like pal, but we don't
really say that is prominently here, not even close for
just a buddy. Uh yeah, so we pick up on it. Yeah,
I mean we're very dumb about other things. That's just
like very very American. Center. Don't think we're up on everything,

(51:02):
but holiday. I think we're pretty good on chat. Tell
me if you were thrown.

Speaker 9 (51:06):
Off and I'm actually flying out and going to backlash
on this weekend. Also, I'll try and call in or
at least send an email about anything. I am good,
glad that I'm going to get Segunda. It's a little
disappointing the matches in, but at least I get to
see him wrestle, so I'm pretty pleased with how the
cards shaping him so far.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
Yep, cool, cool, Yeah, I have well have fun. Yeah,
that's it should be a fun show.

Speaker 9 (51:33):
I can't hear you, so I'm just going to go.
That was the last of my questions anyway, So you
guys have a good night.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
Thanks Rivers, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or aw
Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got
thoughts on the show or a topic you want us
to address or a question for us. Wade Kellor Podcast
at PW torch dot com. Wadkellor Podcast at petw torch
dot com. If there's anything else going on in pro
wrestling that you want us to address on our main

(52:03):
podcast during our Mailbak segments, that same email applies Wade
Kellor Podcast at PW torch dot com. We invite that interaction.
Let us know what you think of what we're saying,
and let us know what you want us to talk
about and ask us specific questions. Wadekellor Podcast at PW
torch dot com. All right, let's go right to Jason

(52:24):
D in Australia next. Jason D. You welcome to the show.
What's on your mind about row?

Speaker 3 (52:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (52:28):
Hey, Wade and Chris. Speaking of Becky, I loved her
line when she said to Laura, Look, it's not my
job to bring up everyone. It's my job to beat everyone,
which is what I've been doing. Jeez, I love you.
Had to love that line way because I've never understood
all you meant to bring us all up and everything. Hey,
it's not Steph Curry's job to bring everyone else up
in the NBA. It's his job to beat everyone, and

(52:48):
he has been doing this. So I thought that was
a great line. But I also think they're doing a
good job with having Larra have a bit of a spine,
standing up for herself, and just a bit of extra
tour time, even Becky throwing out there, if it wasn't
for me, you wouldn't have your fiance. All right. We
don't know who that is, well most people don't, but
at least it's a bit of background information about Laura,

(53:10):
and I think that done a good job with her
just giving her a little something to do so we
know who this person is. We know she's a great wrestler,
but to get to know her a bit better and
give her a personal grudge for feud is going to
help her even more so. I think that done a
better job with her in the past two weeks. What
do you guys think with Laura.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Chris, what do you think? How do you think she
did tonight?

Speaker 2 (53:32):
I agree with Jason. I think it was good for
her to be have her character established. I also like
the fact that she was like, yeah, Becky Lince, you
did all these things back before I got here, so
now that I'm here, you're not going to be able
to be at the top anymore because I'm better than you.
I think it's really I mean, the whole purpose of
pro wrestling, you know, at a very basic level, is

(53:52):
for people to prove or want to be better than
other people. And I think that she acted with confidence
in a way that makes, you know, gives a reception
that she at least believes that she's better than baking lunch.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
And you want the goal to be you're better than
other people, not at promos, not at crowd reactions, not
at quality wrestling, star ratings or any of that, or
crowd chance. You want to win matches like that has
to be the structure of the show. As I win.
When wrestlers, it just it's grading to my ears. When wrestlers,
you know, talk about match quality as a thing. I mean,

(54:25):
I think it can be something that gets brought up,
but it shouldn't be the central core of your identity,
of of of how you define success. And of course
you want to if you're a baby face, you want
to talk about the crowd liking you. If you're a heel,
you want to be mad at the crowd or whatever.
But wins and losses in the story of wrestling and
credit opening and closing credits has to be wins and losses.

(54:47):
I think val Caarria showed signs of being somebody that
people would like to cheer for tonight. You know, she
stood up to her. You know, the recycling thing it felt,
you know, that part felt a little dough to be scripted.
You know, you can imagine the writers or Becky going on,
I'm going to bring up garbage and then gonna say

(55:08):
you're recycling, and and and then Valcarri You're gonna come
back and say I'm the Queen of recycling because you're
doing the same old act for years, which isn't really true.
Becky's evolved quite a bit heal to face, you know,
back to heel again. But I mean, I don't know,
I mean the idea that you're recycling the same act.
Like part of the problem with that line is, I

(55:29):
shouldn't we just believe these restlers are authentically who they are,
not that it's an act, that it's gets boring, so
you should change it. So yeah, some of that didn't
line great, But I thought overall, you know, rattling off
Becky's achievements in her career showed I know who you are,
I respect who you are, but it's my turn. So
you know, I think she showed some alpha there.

Speaker 10 (55:48):
Jason and just I'll say, well, Becky signed with that line.
I mean, she's trying to be clever with it, but
clearly she says Bile as garbage because she has established
that Biley kept attacking her, and so she's he's Bailey
as having no redeeming qualities. But at least with Lyra,
she sort of sees her with some redeem equalities. And
I see what she was trying to say with that.

(56:09):
But in any event, I thought it's been a good,
solid two weeks for Lyra. So now Paul Hayman's promo right. So, Now,
one of the strengths of the writing team under Paul
Levec is that whenever somebody, a major person turns hill,
they give the person who's turning hill a lot of
material to go with. And I'm listening to Hayman and

(56:31):
I'm like, mate, you are making so many good points here.
I completely understand where you're coming from. And that's happened
with a few of them. Now that's the strength where
you're like, you know what, I can believe in what
they're saying. But I guess it could also be a
bit of a weakness, if you like, because then you
sort of feel sympathy for them. But then you're relying
on the person who's turned hell with all these great
facts behind them, to go overboard and to go too

(56:54):
far with it, and the fact that they're coming up
against bigger stars, who against other stars who people really like,
that tests to supersede their raises for turning hill. So
you're running that's that could be quite tricky. But overall,
what Hayman said this was the week where he was
crossing the t's and dotting the o's. This was the
week where he was playcating in a good way that

(57:17):
people who have attention to detail to the story. So
this was a This was a tremendous crimo by human
was a much needed one.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
So I think you bring up a good point. And
in the chat is even a comment Ryan Talaurios as
Paul Haman said nothing but facts. Glenn BI said that
was an fan Alzheimer from Hayman. I meant to say,
shame most rustlers can't switch it up and deal promos
like that epic stuff from film Meltdown and then softly
spoken masterful. I agree. It is great performance from him
and top tier stuff from him, and it's one of
the reasons I was kind of excited about this new

(57:46):
faction because I think Cayman can break away from Yes
my drivel chief, and I'm the advocate for brock Lesner
and be or I'm the best friend to see him
punk like, he gets to be more pollinangorously and the
range that he has as a performers. People who saw
the Roast the WW Roast, No, I mean there's a

(58:06):
there's different levels he can reach and he is in
a narrow lane, a discipline narrow lane for each of
the characters he's played over the last ten years. But
there's a lot more there, and we saw signs of
it tonight. There is concern that he's speaking the truth
too much, that they are facts, but he did effectively
deliver it in a way where you know, obviously the

(58:28):
crowd is still happy to see se him punk, but
he isn't wrong. Chris in saying see him punk put
me in an impossible position, and Roman Reigns left and
left me with solo in that crew and I got
my career almost standing going through the table at MSG.
These are things we wanted him to bring up for
months and months and months and months. Really, it especially

(58:50):
was timely, you know, since post WrestleMania. Obviously it would
have been weird to bring it up before that, So
I'm glad. Yet it's not just crossing tea's and dotting eyes.
It's actually kind of like getting into the crux of
the main reason for one of the biggest angles of
the year, and having the heel explain why he did
why he turned on both people when fans thought, at
the worst or most he's going to choose one or

(59:11):
the other, and he turned against both. And we've been
talking about the reasons, you know, I mean he could
and Hyman could have been even more specifical. And you know, Punk,
you put your arm around me when Robin Rains drove up.
You knew that was going to infuriate Roman.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
You weren't.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
But you know, also you can also make the case
too well, as you know has been brought up, and
where people like end up being sympathetic to Paul in
a way they don't want so, Chris, Yeah, your thoughts
on kind of the pros and cons of the approach
Hayman took and at least addressing the history and giving
the reasons now explicitly.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
Yeah, I'm glad he gave the reason now.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Probably have been better, I think right in the aftermath
of WrestleMania, though, you know, there are some questions of
and I don't think he said this enough. He should
have said, you know, I waited for the right time
to get both of you, because you know Roman, he
did come and help Roman. He got Punk to be
a the Survivor series team and give Punk a favor.
He didn't have to do that if he was wanting

(01:00:05):
to set up Roman, but I think he should have
done a better job of just sort of making, you know,
making it very clear that the reason why he did
it on that day is to embarrass them at the
biggest time, and he set everything up to make sure
they were together because they put him in a difficult situation. Also,
pro I think it shifted from his explanation to I'm

(01:00:25):
trying to screw over a babyface champion, and so it
wasn't just sort of like he made all these great
points to make them. He made it to use it
to sort of blil Jay whus was saying that he's
not worthy of champion and make it feel that he
he was conning him into doing a giving set the
title shot today where he would lose the title. So
I think that added element to it, kind of got

(01:00:46):
away from the people being over the top.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
I just agree with whatever he said, which it has
some truth to it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Jason. I'll read a couple of comments in the chat
and that throw back to you. Standard Deviation said Paul
had this planned out very clearly from before Survivor series.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
At least.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
G Lane says Paul still left room for Seampunk to say, hey,
you call me for war greens wargames. I had nothing
to do with that match until you needed me. Stanley
debiation also as if Dodob had one character who they
could build an entire spinoff short around, it would be
Paul Haman. Derek Mitchell said Paul Hayman was masterful in
his version of the truth as to why he did
what he did to punk Rollment. I think in effective

(01:01:24):
Heels should be convincing and convey why he did what
he did. I don't know. Convincing is a strong word.
I think you should. You should relate to his perspective,
but also think he was probably over overstating things or
doing so in a way that's annoying.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Also, yeah, Heels are bad people, So isn't just he's
justified in doing something because someone wronged him, Because other
baby faces who are wrong don't act that way. So
you have to reiterated the reason doing that is because
they're not good people.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
Yeah, I'm Chrisland.

Speaker 11 (01:02:00):
And I'm Justin McClelland we host Wrestling Coast to Coast,
where we scour the wrestling scene to find the best
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Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
There are plenty of podcasts de voters to w W
and AW, but what's happening in the armories and gymnasiums
local wrestling hotspots around the country.

Speaker 11 (01:02:23):
We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
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Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
And justin bemoaning dogpole fins.

Speaker 11 (01:02:31):
Don't forget my feudal search to see a blue Thunderbomb
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Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
How can I like?

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
The name says we cover the hottest independent promotion from
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Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
No, I mean beyond wrestling out of Worcester, Oh right.

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Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
I got Jason go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:03:15):
I mean, it's an interesting psychology when somebody the heel
turned because what makes an effective feel? I guess it's
someone that in a way you can relate to as
to why they turned bad, but then they take it
too far. You know, It's like, well, yeah, bad things
happen to everyone in life, but you've chosen to take
it too far now. But then sometimes an effective feel

(01:03:35):
is somebody who shows a mirror to the audience and
the audience doesn't like what they see, and then they
hate that person. It's just interesting the psychology, you know,
it's interesting the psychology. But I do think and this
is where I have a bit more leniency with this
writing team and Paul Hayman. I am more lenient in
allowing them to let things play out, to believe that

(01:03:56):
they have a plan and going back to what I
said after SmackDown in his fifty two weeks, but what
I've noticed about Hayman's character is that he has stood
up for himself a bit more over the past few weeks.
So he's gone from sort of being that weasily tribal chief.
I'm here for you now. I feel like his character
is that he's part of He's more of a business

(01:04:17):
person that is sharing in the vision that Seth Rowlins
has seen. And then the way he was backstage with Braun,
Seth talked about wanting to get the championship, and then
Braun replayed it like he said, Seth Rowland's going for
the championship, and then he had Hayman explained to him
as to why Seth was doing that, and then it
became then it's like the plan became the parents of Braun.

(01:04:39):
So I'm just trying to see where the characters are
heading and if there's been a subtle change in the characters. Clearly,
I think Paul Hayman's standing up for himself a bit
more and believes in this vision for the future of
the company. And they've got Braun Break and has a
long there to be the dog at the gate so
Seth can fulfill his vision. Now, obviously, long term is

(01:05:00):
how how long is Breaking going to be happy sitting
on the sidelines fulfilling sets Fish When Borne was the
fulfilled his sign. That's a longer term story. But you
can't see where they're going with this.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, and it's okay to
know where it seems like it's heading because that you know,
just watching them get there and how long it takes
and when the breakpoint is. But if it's if what
the endgame is is logical, you should be able to
see it ahead of time. Not always, but I think
it's there's no harm if that is the case. Also,
just was an expository mode for Haman, you know, to

(01:05:32):
to explain his plan and and and you know, have
Braun not be He's wasn't Austin theory like I don't
know what's going on out there. It's more like, you know,
explain to me the nuance and the strategy, so we
might get a lot of that. You know where Hayman
goes from I I know, being this subservient, almost sometimes
pathetic underling to Roman Reigns or this sort of loud

(01:05:56):
mouthed advocate for brock Le and instead he's now you know,
being the wise man, not just in name and behind
the scenes, but in the actual chemistry he has with
this one of his main two wrestlers right now, you know,
Seth and Hayman. I think are going to be deliberately
treated as equals in the group, and then Bron will

(01:06:17):
be the getting the sage advice from Hayman and filling
Hayman will be filling him with wisdom that he can
use to of course, eventually you'll be hungry enough to
turn on Seth or Seth turns on him. You know it, Well,
I could go either way. Chris any thoughts on that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Yeah, I agree, I think this is allowing him pull
haim in to do a new dimension because he wasn't
really a he lar babyface of Roman reigns. He kind
of just stood there and now you're seeing sort of
the the evil machinations of his mind, machinations of his
mind coming out.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
So that's that's probably going to be helpful for the
character going forward.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
Jason, anything else.

Speaker 10 (01:06:56):
No, really to be honest with he also, that was
the main point. I mean online, I am interested to
see what they are going to do with Rusev and
where they're going with that and the character. It's like
he wants They're trying to say that his character is
that he wants to bring out the best in people
that they can fulfill their potential because he wasn't able
to do that. Now he's found himself and he's going

(01:07:18):
to help other people find themselves. Or is that just
a ruse because all he wants to do is really
hurt people and he's using that as an excuse. So
rus is another interesting one for me with Alistair Black.
With Ruscev, you have to be careful the way you're
booking because he can't afford to take too many losses
because then he loses somewhat of his auror at his
sort of dominance because he comes across so dominant and

(01:07:39):
the way he looks. You have to make sure your
book him strong because if you don't, he'll lose it.
So I'm going to be intrigued where he fits in
in this current story with his current wrestlers.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
What do you guys think, Ah, Chris, Yeah, I think
it's one of those things where the Alpha Academy is
a great introduction to him or retroduction to him and
his character here now in w But what's next for him?
It's sort of like, is there a upper mid cart
kind of babyface, kind of like jay usso that he

(01:08:11):
could challenge someone, you know, maybe a Shamus that's why
they brought him on the show. I know they are
actually friends, so maybe that's the person that he challenges next,
but someone like that would be interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
I think w B is also trying to to sort
of improve upon the version of what Russo is doing,
as marin aw executed better in a more defined way.
I think that it was I don't know if ambiguity
is a word, but they were open minded to like,
what is Russev getting at here? Saying, you know, he
he thinks these people are not fulfilling their potential and
he sees more in Otis, so he's gonna, you know,

(01:08:47):
beat some sense into him. And there was enough there
to make you think maybe Russev is going to have
this competitive match that's going to show that he is
better than Otis and that'll be a wake up call
to Otis to get better himself. And there is something
altruistic about his mission. And then they ended it, you know,
with the way that Rusov attacked him afterwards into the angles,

(01:09:10):
so you know, now it's clearly defined. But I think
it was fine to spend a week going I think
he's gonna be hill he doesn't. It seems like a
really mean way to try to teach people lessons. But
let's let's see it through and then it's just any
any slipper adult was shown to us, not told to us,
and I think that's a good way to do that.
I'm you know, maybe it's too similar to some other
things that he does, but every character, you know, has

(01:09:33):
their way of expressing it. And I think Grusev is
distinct and in great shape, but he is kind of,
you know, top of the second tier type. I mean,
it doesn't feel like Russev will be main eventing, and
you know, I don't think he's going to be in
the main event mix. I think to a degree that
maybe we found out that was never was going to
be the case, or at least now it feels like

(01:09:55):
that can't be the case, right Chris.

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
Yeah, I just don't see him.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
I mean, there is a world theoretically where he could
be a challenger for a jay USO at a Startus
made event, But I think the problem that him is
his character. The way it was like today, it was
kind of similar to what Gunthera was doing before. He
kind of also had a Master Alpha academy. Maybe they
did that for two weeks indressing Ja ja Uso, so

(01:10:20):
he'd have to be kind of on a different level
than gun through gun there is already up there, so
that would already mean he mean, he'd be a notch below.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
Ryan Florio on the chat says Russa versus Otis was
a fun match, and Derek Mitchell, oops, let's say good
fella fourteen twenty two said Otis can go. It was fun,
go ahead, Jason.

Speaker 10 (01:10:42):
I just wanted just quickly to change subjects to Gunsa's
back and forth at Pat McAfee. You know, I know
a lot of the phrase you've used over the year's
way is that who who are you in the business of?
And clearly doub w ways in the business of GUNSA
because when you look, and sometimes I believe that you

(01:11:03):
can tell if the company's behind someone is what they
do with them after they lose a big match. And
if you look at Gunther, when you look at Gounster,
what they did with him after he lost to Sammuzain
straight away they put him in the King of the
Ring and he won the tournament. He got his heat back.
Then he lost to Cody Rose, that sort of ill
time match that they quite unquite had to do he

(01:11:25):
come out of that. They gave him a storyline which
we're pretty much criticized at the time where he was
kind of losing his edge, losing focus, but they at
least gave him something to sink his teeth into. And
then he got the victory over Damian Priest and Finn
Bawler at Saturday Night's main event, as if to say
he's found his edge again. But they gave him something
now coming out of Jay Uso having to tap out,

(01:11:47):
and he alluded to in the promo that he's going
to get to that suit, so he'll address why he
tapped out. They've given him Pat McAfee, a beloved person.
You know he's going to get heat on him. You
know he's going to come away looking even stronger. They're
in the business of Guntha and it just goes to
show that they have meticulously booked this guy in a
way to maintain his heat even when he loses. So

(01:12:09):
I'm going to be looking forward to how the match
plays out and then where Gunthera goes from there and
how he does explain tapping out to Jay, because I
believe he will have a great explanation and will keep
the ball rolling from him. But it's just so good
to have someone who's just a legitimate heel who gets
heat as opposed to know other characters we see where
it's hard for them to maintain being a hill because

(01:12:30):
they're either too cool, like Jacob Fartu even Dree McIntire sometimes,
you know, he can be very funny and charming in
a kind of way, but Goodth is just straight down
the line. He's a heel. You know what you're getting,
and we need more of these people.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
Chris, what do you think of Pat McAfee's mic work
last week and this week?

Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
I thought his mic worker was very good.

Speaker 2 (01:12:55):
I agree with Jason everything he said, so I don't
want to reiterate it. I personally am wouldn't forgone because
I don't like Barton McAfee, but.

Speaker 3 (01:13:02):
I know that's not the.

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
You know, it went against everything I talked about before
about crowd reactions. But really he did a really good
job of trying to say he he's different than Gunther.
He loves, you know, he loves everything, and Gunther is
just there, you know, and he he loses focus and
you know, if he loses focus on him, he's going
to lose but Gunther said he's not going to, so

(01:13:25):
that sets up the main event to Sy, you know,
because the good thing about guns this character is he
has a loss, but the losses are always excused by
his own, uh, you know, frailties or his own you know,
lack of maybe either training or discounting his opponent. So
he's so he's always a winner basically, or he beats

(01:13:46):
himself so obegining to see in a match against a
non wrestler if he still has that mentality where he
he discounts his opponent.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Prog
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.

(01:14:21):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to WWE payperviews.
I cover those live at pw torch dot com with
a detailed written report with star ratings, and of course
you can find other TV reports from other contributors to
PW torch such as nxt roh Impact Wrestling, and more.
Check it out pwtorch dot com, your first stop for

(01:14:43):
TV and pay per view written reports. A couple comments
in the chat that I'll per back to you. Jason one,
Kyle Fassel says, I'm thinking Michael Cole is going to
have a spot in the match. Goodfellow fourteen twenty two

(01:15:07):
says Patt, I've got a few good spot, fun spots
in and get the breaks beat off him. Those are
kind of the the main oh and Anthony Foster, who
said I didn't care about the match. Joe Gunther spoke,
now I hope he Molly whoops.

Speaker 10 (01:15:18):
Pat.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
Yeah, I mean I think McAfee's don't give an effective
baby face promos. I've liked them. I like him more
in Cannon. I don't need to think this is really
him or I mean, I'm not ruling in or out anytime.
Just the character on TV is a stand up guy
standing up for Cole. He's I don't know how you

(01:15:43):
can say you're humble as essentially a civilian. I mean,
you're a kicker in the NFL. You're not like an
XOC fighter or something, or offensive lineman for that matter,
you're or free safety or whatever. Like it's a kicker
like he's not he's not pretending that he's a badass.
He's he laid out in the promo. You underestimated Jay,
you underestimated Sammy. I think you're gonna underestimate me. If

(01:16:07):
you want to motivate somebody, say you're underestimating me. You know,
if if the Timbers want to motivate Golden State say
we're favored for a reason and we're gonna beat you,
and you know what I don't you're gonna or vice versa. Yeah,
whatever you can pointing it out can be a bad policy.
It's what I'm saying now. Pat might have a poked
the bear, awakened the beast because goother said you know

(01:16:27):
so in so many words that same thing. You know,
I'm you've woken me up. I'm motivated. So you know
what's gonna happen in the match? I mean it's not
gonna be super Chanel mc nonsense. You know, we're some
civilian and Sneakers is out there having fantasy wrestling camp
because he's the son of the Boss McBee. I think
we'll get in some spots because of Gunther's arrogance or

(01:16:48):
Michael Cole distracting Gunther. Gunthrou loses cool in a way
that the fans take the light and seeing. But overall
mcavee will lose and he won't be glomming everybody finishers
and he won't expect him her to kick out at
two and a half multiple times, you know. I mean
it's like this is in fantasy wresting camp for Pat
where he just wants to put himself over is you

(01:17:09):
know super chanel mac like Shane did too often. And
I'm picking on him because I speak the truth. It
was nonsense. It was popular, but it was nonsense, and
I think McAfee will be more respectful of the dynamic
and who boo there is Jason, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:17:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:17:23):
Well, look, I find Pat sometimes he annoys me. Sometimes
he doesn't like when he tones it down it just
speaks normal. I find him entertaining and informative. But the
one thing about him is that you can tell he
really respects the restless, so he will go out of
his way. Not that good with the nisis, but you
know he's going to do the right thing, like he's
going to sell the right way. And you can tell

(01:17:45):
obviously he's a fan growing up of wrestling because he's
got the promo down pat for pardon the punt.

Speaker 3 (01:17:51):
I guess you know.

Speaker 10 (01:17:52):
He knows how to say things, he knows how to
go about it, he knows how to get the cheese,
he knows how to structure his promo, so he knows
what he's doing right. With a little bit of polished
backstage and whatnot, I'll mean trade by this match, but
ultimately Goos is going to come out as more of
a megahe and That's what I'll be trading way too.
Next for gunsa.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
Uh, Chris Any theories on that. I haven't given a
lot of thought he could go after J again. He said,
I'll get back to that. Yeah, you know, so maybe that,
Chris Any, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:18:23):
I think.

Speaker 2 (01:18:25):
The right logical progression of him is to go back
after J. Maybe wrestlers Logan Paul maybe has a tag
team feud with Seth and Brown and Sammy. Uh. I'm
trying to think SummerSlam is that the next major pl
e how's the pay per view to use that word anymore?
I don't I think gun there has been someone who's

(01:18:51):
been you know. They mentioned the fact that he was
a champion eighty percent of his time in WWE, So
he doesn't seem like someone who his character wants to
be away from the title. He may have a distraction
here or there, but his goal is to be a champion,
so he will want to get back to that sooner
rather than than later.

Speaker 1 (01:19:10):
Jason, anything else for us now.

Speaker 10 (01:19:12):
I'll leave it at that. I'll just say congratulations, Chris.
I was flipping between the man. I was flipping between rolls.

Speaker 1 (01:19:19):
Spoiler alert, spoiler alert, Oh it's on fast forward or
two minutes to avoid spoilers. They don't want to.

Speaker 12 (01:19:25):
I was going to say.

Speaker 10 (01:19:27):
Co hosting the show with White. I thinks, yes, that's
what I was trying to say.

Speaker 1 (01:19:34):
Awesome, I knew it. Chasing. I was just give you
a hard time.

Speaker 10 (01:19:36):
Thank you, all right, I appreciate it, you know what
I'm trying to say. But I am a paces man.
So if it is uthing paces in New York and
that Eastern conference Fondal, that is going to be a classic.
That's nostalgia, and that's going to be great. That's box
office right there.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
The final four, the final four in the East is fun.
There's history and star power there well, and actually both
sides West and East.

Speaker 3 (01:19:59):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
I've always had a soft spot for Cleveland as I
live in Ohio now, so I want to see them
do a lot of friends who are Cavs fans.

Speaker 3 (01:20:07):
I don't like the Celtics. I don't want the Warriors
to win.

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
I think pretty much, anybody else that wins other than
those two the nixt obviously my preference, but anyone else
that would win other than the the other six would
be fine by me.

Speaker 3 (01:20:21):
Not the payser so much.

Speaker 2 (01:20:22):
I mean those mid nineties battles, you know, you know,
we won't go into that too much, but there were
a lot of interesting times back then, so good.

Speaker 10 (01:20:31):
I mean, I just listen. Obviously from a different country,
and everyone over here was a Chicago Bulls fan. Everyone
jumped on the Michael Jordan vandwagon. So I jumped on
the reaching Milo wanted to be different and it was
worth the right. Didn't get a championship out of it.
Sort of came close in two thousand when I went
down to the Lakers. But I'll take that. I'll type
that it's it's much more fun to be on a
team that not everyone else is supporting than just jumping

(01:20:53):
on the bandwagon. You know, you get you sort of
get value for money.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
Thanks Jason.

Speaker 3 (01:21:00):
Sale.

Speaker 1 (01:21:01):
So reminder, keep the show spoiler free or at least
warn people about spoilers, and pretty much don't just don't
bring up show, don't bring up sporting of us that
happen as wrestling is airing, unless yeah, we give a
fair spoiler to people. I really want it to be
a safe environment for people who have to watch on DVR.
Listen some people like they listened to the podcasts in
the morning, they had to go to bed. They don't

(01:21:22):
know they'll come to the game. They're going to watch
when they get home from work, or on their way
to work or at lunch. All that stuff. We live
life on delay, so be cognizant of that. All right,
let's go to JB's email. He's always good at giving
us some topics. We didn't get to the A and
B topics, beginning with I assume that the swerve after

(01:21:44):
the women's match tonight is setting up for EO to crash,
Julia's match tomorrow, and NXT if so, I'm not a
huge fan of the constant inconsistencies in interactions between wrestlers
across all three shows. Also, if you look at the
background of one of the backstage segments, you can see
Roxanne in acting with Finn. Is there any chance at
Roxanne and Julia usurp live and Raquel from the judgment

(01:22:05):
day so a lot there to react to. Chris Michael
Cole kind of it seemed like you caught himself when
he mentioned these are NXT wrestlers, and they kind of
stopped and McAfee like finished his sentence for him. I
don't know if they have a clear, like obvious policy
about how to deal with call ops who aren't really
fully called up yet. I think it's just sort of
mushy and they want to eat their cake and have

(01:22:27):
a two. They want to have call ops, but they
don't want to have people not be able to be
on more than one show. I don't know. I kind
of liked when you were on one brand or the
other or the other, especially NXT. Once you made it
to the being roster, you made it the NXT's drawn.
You know, good numbers on the CW, and I think
they think that's more worthwhile than a really strict logical

(01:22:50):
firm you know, split between the brands. But anyway that
that's one point, but react to anything that JB sid there.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
Yeah, I agree. I think it needs to be clear
where people are. I was even thinking, you know, going
to smack it. I'm like, oh, I wonder if anyone
else will randomly show up that I wasn't expecting, because
anyone can be on any show you want it.

Speaker 3 (01:23:13):
You know, they're.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
Developing a few between these wrestlers, but they're not in
the same for lack of a better term, universe, so
you have to explain, you know, just because EO Sky
had you know, goes down on NXT for a match,
that doesn't necessarily mean that Roxanne and Perez can have
a match with her here.

Speaker 3 (01:23:31):
It just needs to be clear.

Speaker 2 (01:23:33):
Or because they're going to have a draft and it's
like people are gonna get drafted again to different brands.
It just it's just very confusing. I know, it just
kind of makes intriguing matchups. But I think if you're
they should focus on the women on the raw women roster,
and if they want Julia and Roxanne Perez to be
two of them then just put them there and leave

(01:23:53):
it at that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
What have you thought of Roxanne and how she's been
portrayed on the main roster at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
She's someone who I've seen, you know, I began my
time of the torch Riding Ring of Honor TV recaps
and she was there, and she always seemed to me
as someone who was like your young babyface.

Speaker 3 (01:24:14):
It has been different with.

Speaker 2 (01:24:14):
Her as a heel, and I think they they're trying
their best, first with Bailey when she was sort of
resting Bailey randomly on on RAW, and now with EO
Sky that try to put a mean streak into her
that she started developing NXT. I think it's kind of
hard because I think naturally she just looks like a
really young girl and and she has to be really

(01:24:37):
mean to be this heel. But I think that's what
they want to do, and they keep working on it,
and I can't say it has improved from you know,
the first time she started doing it a few months back.

Speaker 1 (01:24:48):
Cole called her a feisty upstart when they showed her
arriving at the building, And you know, I still don't
think they've just full. I mean, her actions are you know,
clearly defined what side she's on now and what role
she's playing. But there's not enough character development with her
for people to be upset with her being heelish or
disappointed or anything if you're not long term and XT

(01:25:08):
fan viewer. But even if you are, it's still not
I don't know. I mean, it feels like they're just
kind of I don't say took a short cut. It
just sort of leaped into her just being in a
certain role without having the time to introduce herself to
the larger audience. Not that the distinction in size of
audience is as big as NXT used to be compared

(01:25:29):
to the main roster, But I don't know. I just
I think you lose something when they sort of blend
in and they're not really well defined and they start
doing things and the crowds like, oh, that's how we're
supposed to feel about her now.

Speaker 10 (01:25:41):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
It's just with her it's been sloppy and there's the
issue for her size being really small. Then can she
be an effective heel You can get away with that,
I think, maybe even more so in the women's division.
But and she's really good at being a heel, but
she also just sort of seems on the surface to
be a better feisty, scrappy babyface. But maybe they feel
they have too much of that, you know, and libravel

(01:26:02):
Carry is sort of the young upstart who has that.
So I don't know. I don't give them a great
grade for it, but I don't think it's like, yeah,
killed it off.

Speaker 10 (01:26:17):
Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
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Speaker 6 (01:26:24):
Do you want to be topped off the ledge after
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Speaker 5 (01:26:29):
Do you want to join a discussion on what AW
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Then join me Joel and me Greg for the All.

Speaker 6 (01:26:37):
Of the Conversation Club every Friday on the pw Torch
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Speaker 1 (01:27:06):
Okay, next from JB here Is says I don't. I'm
not a fan of putting Jain Seth in the main
event tonight with no pre advertisement. I prefer for the
for the first time they get their hands in each other,
which a is Champ and Seth as a new Heil character,
they have a stronger, longer term build. I'd argue tonight's
booking goes a bit of a hot shot. If I
had to lean one way or the other, I'm okay

(01:27:26):
with it. I mean, if you're not going to do
a finish, it's better not to get spend. You know,
we'll be having people get excited about it. I get
that there's also a little payoff. You don't want to
do it all the time, but where it served to
put two purposes one people can go. When I tune
into RAW, I don't know what's been announced, but I
know sometimes a really big match will be announced. I
thought they did a good job framing it as a
big deal, Cole saying it was the first time and
you know, seven eight months or whatever that they've had

(01:27:47):
a World time match on TV, and the idea was
Paul Hayman manipulated j into giving a title match, so
they had a storyline backing for j giving a title
shot away, and it put Hayman over as you know,
being clever and manipulative, Chris, what do you think?

Speaker 3 (01:28:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
And to add an also riders jay us as you know,
your baby face fighting champion. I'm not gonna you know,
you name the time and the place with the time
and the place it's going to be today because that's
that's his character. So I think it did a really
good job of establishing both characters why they wanted the match,
and so that I think is a really important element
to consider.

Speaker 1 (01:28:23):
JB says. Also, making Dom versus Penta for the Icy
title at Backlash is an interesting choice if the plan
is to embrace Dom as a face moving forward. The
two scenarios that I can see it working out is
if this is where Finn turns on Dom, costing him
the title, or if Dom acts more like an Eddie
Garreo Lye cheat and steel face, which is the type
of face that I don't think we need any more
of in the current dough to Be ecosystem. Is I

(01:28:47):
think towards just being a matter. Dom stays heel and
Penta is a baby face. Penta might win the title,
he might not but Valor costing Dom. The title fits
the storyline. Momentum trajectory is better word of things right now.
So what do you think, Chris?

Speaker 3 (01:29:04):
Yeah, I think that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:29:06):
I feel like the Judgment Day is always on the
brink of breaking up and somehow now that they just
maybe swap out a few few members. It was funny
they do all this stuff, I guess for New Japan
fans because it is the anniversary arrestling on Taku of
the Bullet Club forming whatever that was twelve years ago,
so they did the Bullet Club nod between aj Styles

(01:29:28):
and Finn Balor.

Speaker 3 (01:29:30):
But yeah, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:29:31):
That I initally thought on the show, because of all
the interference, that this would be a way to establish
Ray Phoenix's Penti's brother, because like six guys ran in
against Penta and he had no help, and so maybe
someone magically would show up and help him. Obviously with
the main event that wasn't gonna be the case, but
maybe at the pay per view Ray Phoenix is there
and helps out his brother.

Speaker 3 (01:29:52):
Within the intercinal title.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
All right, I'm next for JB. I think that having
New Day, Chad Gabel and Beckum Lynch interact with each
other backstage is unintentionally symbolical where all of them stand
on the card. For Gable is perfectly fine, but for
new Dan Becky after the long awaited heal turns, I
can't help but feel it's a bit underwhelming. I wasn't
quite true why they had Becky just kind of walk
through them. It didn't strike me as meaning anything or

(01:30:15):
having a purpose.

Speaker 2 (01:30:17):
Chris, Yeah, I didn't really see the purpose of it.
And they're all heels. They seem to back away from
her like they were they were scared of her.

Speaker 3 (01:30:26):
Yeah, I just didn't didn't make a lot of sense
to me either.

Speaker 1 (01:30:30):
Yeah. Uh, he's JB says sexual innuendos from McAfee Tonight,
total facial from Penta Nebraska beating me, Nebraska y eating
Oliver Paul Hayman's face, sexual indie mindos pat has made Tonight. Well,
at least we didn't get scatological stuff. We didn't get
any poop references. But whatever, that's the power there? What's that? Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:30:51):
Yeah, there are many reasons but yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:56):
Oh, Matt, I don't know if it's Mada. But when
I said was there mat on the show and McAfee said,
you were waltering all over the all over Europe, and
then he came here. You know, little you know, you know,
good portion of the audience, not everybody, but a good
portion are like, ooh, it's like, who cares he had
he had one name, now I was another. And Pat
said it.

Speaker 3 (01:31:13):
It's not a great deal because they make you change
your name when you go there.

Speaker 1 (01:31:19):
Yeah. Yeah, and I don't I mean reasons yeah, and
I'm I'm fine with most of the name changes. I mean,
it's a business. They want to own own the names there.
You know, some hybrid between you know, hiring wrestlers is
independent contractors who have an established gimmick in name and
being a movie studio who cast people for roles, and
they want to have rights to the to the marketing
and and the names and stuff. I mean, I.

Speaker 3 (01:31:42):
Don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:31:42):
I don't know. I just don't. I don't get too
worked up over it. It just sort of is baked
in as what they do. And you can have like
or not like a name. I mean, I get that,
you know, but I don't know. If you're talented, you'll
overcome you know, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, all right.
I have a feeling we're going to get a tag
match of punkin Rains versus Seth and Breaker, either Money

(01:32:04):
in the Bank or Summer Slam, punkin Rains teaming against Seth,
and I mean Seth and Breaker will be a team
punkin Rains or Punk in Ja. I guess could if
they want to keep Rains Await, what do you think, Chris?

Speaker 2 (01:32:18):
I feel like this guy has to be punk and Rains.
I feel like Jay and Sammy is just sort of
a segue to that because Roman isn't going to be
there for a while. But I think the main match
has to be the two of them, and they might
do the whole reluctant part. I think WB likes the
reluctant partner tag team and Samy and j are not that,
so they can get some mileage out of them sort

(01:32:41):
of teaming because they don't really want to, but they
have to. And how's that going to work?

Speaker 3 (01:32:46):
Well? Can they coexist?

Speaker 1 (01:32:49):
The chats that Darrell says it'll be punkin Sammy first,
Ryan Cleoreo says, I think it's punkin Sammy versus Seth
and Brons so not Jay but Sammy, And that makes
sense if Jay still World Champion. I guess to do
Jay Derek Mitchell. As far as the Becky comment, Becky
and the New Day had an interaction beckstage years ago
and they were faces, and I think it was a

(01:33:09):
call back to this time as heels. Just see if
there's anything else in the channel. We're just saying nope.
So JB, back to his email, says Seth is going
to have to spray paint himself orange to fit in
with the rest of his stable after this week. Maybe
that's maybe they'll name it. Should they name the stable?
Are we are they waiting for tapping organically or are

(01:33:31):
we going to get a Hayman alliance? A Hayman Seth express.

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
I don't know, is that an actual name with they
the Chipple threat of terror or is that not a.

Speaker 1 (01:33:42):
I hope yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:33:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:33:45):
And also that dynamic at the end where they were
like more baby faces than heels made me think they
may add to someone else because you had three, you
had three rests. I mean, Paul Hayman obviously is a heel.
We had three wrestlers versus two, So maybe they may
add someone else to okay with that forces against him.

Speaker 1 (01:34:03):
I'm okay with that all right. Finally from JB, I
think Goldberg somehow gets involved in the McAfee Gunther match
to prevent Pat from getting completely destroyed after the Bell.
I think that Pat gets some hope spots in, but
ultimately Luther squashes him. I think at Gunther mcabee, I
think Gunther McAfee is a vehicle to get Gunther Goldberg
for Goldberg's retirement match, possibly at the next Saturday n
it's made event, which would be quick turnaround right after

(01:34:24):
backlash as I always loved the show and go vip. Yeah,
this McAfee Gunther match could be a setup for someone
coming to McAfee's aid, either to prevent him from losing
or to save him from a beatdown after the bell.
What do you think about the gold you know, doing
the Goldberg Grunther thing, which they've teased.

Speaker 3 (01:34:41):
I think that's gum Through Goldberg is so weird.

Speaker 2 (01:34:44):
I mean, Goldberg's in his mid fifties, isn't he Yeah,
so it's kind.

Speaker 3 (01:34:50):
Of weird to see him wrestled Gunther.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
I think again we talked about before about you know,
everyone expects a gun Through to win. He probably will win,
So the story is going to be what's next for
him if he's not going to wrestle jay Uso imminently.
There needs to be something to take his attention from that,
and that that could be Bill Goldwork.

Speaker 1 (01:35:10):
Yep. I want to underline how popular Eosky is and
what a good job they've done. We talked about Roxane
president her robot Eo Sky. I thought col did a
nice job talking praising her for things that feel natural
to praise her for, just you know, just to joy
to watch, just infectious. They've got something with her that

(01:35:32):
I didn't think a few months ago they could have.
They sacrificed be a coherent story with Bianca and Rhea
might have done some damage. I think it's repaarable. But
what do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:35:43):
Yeah, I think this is almost like a happy accident.
I don't know if this was the plan. I feel
like they, you know, had booked the card they kind
of wanted.

Speaker 3 (01:35:52):
They didn't want to burn a Ria.

Speaker 2 (01:35:55):
Bianca bel Air singles match, and they wanted to put
Eo in there. But just the way that she was treated,
in the way that she stood up for herself kind
of made her early popular wrestler. As well as the
match they had a Wrestlmania was really good, probably one
of the better matches if something considered the best match
of the show both nights. So she's out there, she's

(01:36:16):
you know, she's a good wrestler, she has a crowd
behind her. I think it just looked like there was
planned But either way, whether his planned or not, it's working.

Speaker 3 (01:36:22):
So kudos to them on that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:24):
Yes, how are you feeling about how Penta is being used?
We talk about the dumb match, but it was more
around what will happen with Dom and the judgment day
is pent about where you thought he would be? I
do you think they? I don't know. I mean some
people thought he could be a top tier guy. I
wasn't sold on that. It feels like he's a second tier, flashy,

(01:36:48):
charismatic act and this is probably the level he's going
to be at. Do you think this is probably where
he stays?

Speaker 3 (01:36:53):
Yeah? I think so.

Speaker 2 (01:36:54):
I think he's right where he should be. I don't
know what the expectations of him were. He, at least
in the United States. I think, other than maybe Luca
Underground and Impact, was never really a big single star.
I think there's a lot of room in w and
roles for people at his level.

Speaker 3 (01:37:10):
He's very popular with the crowd.

Speaker 2 (01:37:12):
I think I think, you know, if they really want
to revamp their tag team division, should put him with
Ray Phoenix, And maybe that's something they do later in
the year.

Speaker 1 (01:37:23):
Let me interrupt, though, is it good to have Ray
and Pedta together. It's good for them to be an
exciting tag team. They can play with each other. But
I think you're just def I mean, think of a
hard it was for Jay to get out from under
Jimmy Shadow. Think of how hard it is for wrestlers
who are identified as one half of a tag team
to have that chance to Like again, maybe maybe if

(01:37:44):
Pence is going to be an upper mid carter, then
maybe it doesn't do much harm. But like, once Pent
and Ray are a tag team, they're going to be
seen by a lot of fans and even probably Paulavek
as well. They're tag wrestlers. If they're singles, it's they're
not really truly a singles star. I like, I wish
they had just I hope they keep them apart for
like two years so that when they team together Daoby,
it's like this big happening, but it's after they both

(01:38:06):
establish themselves as single stars. I know, if they rush
them into a tag team. It's not a bad default
position to my preference, which is, oh, we have a
great Take team Indoe B and they can build the
Take division around them and they'd be exciting. But you're
I think you're just basically saying we're never going to
feature them as single stars at that point.

Speaker 2 (01:38:25):
Yeah, I think you're totally right, to be honest, I
think that just comes from my eternal hope that tag
team wrestling will turn to where it was when I
was a kid. And so I realize that's not where
Duodo V is. It is not where a lot of
promotions are. Most promotions they're tag team wrestling. Not that
they don't have wrestlers who are or good, they just say,

(01:38:45):
don't focus on in the way that maybe I would hope.
And so my thought was, maybe this is where I
had it wrong that they were signed and to letter
said the most machine goes as well to kind of
accentuate a new generation of tag team wrestling. But if
they're not going to do that, if they're just going
to be it's active message is going to be the
way it has been for the last thirty years or so.

Speaker 3 (01:39:07):
Then they're probably better off where they are.

Speaker 2 (01:39:09):
Because it can be being an uppermint carter is a
better way to be b than in an attack team
that doesn't really get a lot of attention.

Speaker 1 (01:39:19):
We're about to go to a commercial break. Why listened
to commercial breaks? When you can go vip and experience
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dot com slash go vip. That's pw torch dot com
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(01:39:39):
ads and plugs through Patreon. Full VIP membership starts at
nine dollars in ninety nine cents to reach yourself to
a streamlined ad and plug free listening experience with a
VIP or Patreon membership. Speaking of tay teams, is it
the end of Grayson Waller in Austin theory or is
Austin theory the ever dopey Austin theory and not really

(01:40:00):
know what's happening? Cole said off camera there was an
argument they'd get to it later. They didn't get to
it later. I don't know if it made it to
social media. But what do you make of that story
of Grayson passing along a mystery match, Theory going I
want a singles match, I want a singles match, and
then finding out a Seamus and then having back like
that's not what he wanted. So we had Seamus's return,
but we also have the storyline of, you know, the

(01:40:21):
announcers really being pretty happy handed, like when is Siah
going to figure out Waller doesn't have his best interest
in mind? Certainly it looks like when they break up,
if it's imminent, Theory will be portrayed as the babyface.
But man, they portrayed him as a dopey guy for
so long. Now, going back to X Steve, I know
he's good at it, but.

Speaker 2 (01:40:37):
Yeah, we did a show a few weeks ago is
actually a Memphis Wrestling, which is a YouTube show on YouTube.
It's a studio a televin show. And the heel manager
said to her those are subtles you managed. She said,
I saw. I watched the show. I saw what you
did last week, and I was so happy because wrestling
characters never mentioned that they actually watched the show. And

(01:40:59):
basically I'm saying there as I hope Autoin Theory watches
raws available on Netflix around the world. I hope you
have your Netflix subscription and you watch it before next
week's show in Louisville, Kentucky, so you can see how
you end up in the match, and maybe that will
help further your career or make you help you make
a decision of where to go forward.

Speaker 3 (01:41:19):
So hopefully he watched the show.

Speaker 1 (01:41:21):
Or just as a friend who texts him like you
don't see the show, just like, hey, Austin, guess what.
You don't have to watch it back, but here's what happened.
And then Austin should come on next week and you
know you don't want to do I don't know, Theory
can just go.

Speaker 6 (01:41:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:41:35):
I trusted Grayson Waller too much. I had friends tell
me I shouldn't and then I, you know, went back
and watched the show last week, and I realize it's
time for me to grow up and see Grayson for
who he is.

Speaker 2 (01:41:47):
I mean, the way the technology is now, he's probably
could have watched it on his phone when he got
back to the locker.

Speaker 1 (01:41:52):
Room for sure. For sure, what do you think of
what's up about Seamus? He's back?

Speaker 2 (01:41:58):
Yeah, I mentioned earlier. I think he may be an
opponent for RUSSEV. He's like the right type of opponent. Yep,
it was a good match. The thing with Shames is funny.
They were listing all his accolades. I was like, wow,
he did all those things. He won't roll rumble and
money in the bank, and he was King of the
Ring and he's held every title.

Speaker 3 (01:42:16):
I was like, wow, it is all the one title,
all the interconnocile.

Speaker 2 (01:42:20):
Yes, it just struck me that he's had that kind
of legendary of a career. But he's actually the right
person that after Russep bullies a few people that Shamus
steps up and says, hey, you need to knock it off,
and they could have a few.

Speaker 3 (01:42:34):
You know, he's right at that level for them.

Speaker 1 (01:42:39):
I mentioned VP membership earlier. I want to note that
there is a seven a free trial offer through Patreon
or Spotify. All you have to do is search p
W Torch VIP and you can get a seven a
free trial and then after that you can become a
VIP member on in terms of getting all the VIP
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that otherwise have commercials, and also our VP exclusive shows,

(01:43:03):
which will include Saturday nights Backlash pay per View Roundtable
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you can also catch up on over two decades of
post pay per view roundtables on demand if you want
to get a full VIP membership to unlock our archives
and our ad free website that also gives you customizable
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(01:43:26):
on iOS or Android that allow custom feeds to be entered.
And it's a very slick setup we have. So I mean,
you can just enter the the RSS feed to catch
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(01:43:46):
Fel's Progress Paradise or just for Greg Parks out Loud,
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or just for NXT eight years back and on and
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you a chance to, you know, whatever in the mood
for or if you want to stack up some progressing
then announce to listen on a road trip. They're on
a separate feed for you don't have to scrow through
and worry about them falling off off the feed. And

(01:44:08):
then also they're all available on demand to stream from
our VIP website when you're a full VIP member. So
we'd love for you to support us, and I think
you'll appreciate the quality of content, the quantity and quality
and tone of the new material we put out every day. Also,
we put on the VIP feed our eighteen years ago
flashback shows and we just finished up the it was

(01:44:29):
like eighteen or nineteen installment interview seven six seven hours
with Scott Hall, which is just a phenomenal interview. And
also we're currently running I think we've run three out
of four parts from eighteen years ago of Bruce Mitchell
audio shows where we reviewed the Four Horsemen DVD that
would be put out. Nobody better to talk about that
than Bruce Mitchell. And the first three parts are out

(01:44:51):
and I think part four going up on the feed
in a couple of days. So it's just like a
doctorate level course in professional wrestling history. I think you
it's hard to convey what it is like, just in
terms of the totality of what we do on VIP.
If you're listening just to our free shows, you get
a pretty good sample of it. But i'd recommend you obviously,

(01:45:13):
it's our business. We'd love to have your business, and
I think you'll enjoy it if you like the show,
So check it out. Pw torch dot com. Slash Go
vip gives you all the details on all the benefits
and all the different ways to pay and sign up. Chris,
anything else you want to add about tonight's rob before
we sign off.

Speaker 2 (01:45:29):
I think the only thing I wanted to add is
that they did mention that Summer Slam tickets are on
sale at MetLife Stadium. And I believe Michael Cole did
a Jets chat, so he may have added himself as
a Jets fan, so.

Speaker 1 (01:45:42):
I think he has said that before. I'm pretty sure
I think he's a Mets and Jets fan.

Speaker 3 (01:45:47):
Yeah, so, which is very common from that party.

Speaker 2 (01:45:50):
And McAfee, I'm a Yankees Jets fan with a bit
different But McAfee made a jibe and he let and
he moved on.

Speaker 1 (01:45:58):
So yeah, I like someone in the chat mentioned McAfee
said that Michael Cole is a sixty year old man,
and it's like it's even like fifty six, Like, I think,
what kind of friend is that? Yeah, yeah, Duane Carpenter
pointed out, speaking of a John. Unless I miss heard
Pat dot Cole, I thought he said Cole was sixty.

(01:46:18):
It's only fifty six.

Speaker 3 (01:46:20):
You age four years when you don't take any time off,
and it age.

Speaker 1 (01:46:24):
Is you so well you might look sixty for not
taking time off. I'm not deciding that either way, but
I think Pat was saying he was born sixty years ago,
So I don't know. But then they cut to Cole
and Cole's like, I don't know if Cole knew how
to respond to that, if they're meant to try to
crack him up or not, I don't know. All right,
If you haven't subscribed to our channel, yeah, please do

(01:46:44):
that right now. Click the subscribe button, smash it as
they say, or used to say, I don't know, And
also please like this episode. If you're watching us on YouTube,
comment below. If you're watching us on YouTube, let us
know if you have any thoughts on our opinions. You
can interact with other listeners that helps the algorithm or
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(01:47:06):
our show. You can also set an alert so when
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there'll be a link that you can click to join
us live. Chris, tell people about your podcast, some recent episodes,
or what you got coming up.

Speaker 3 (01:47:18):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (01:47:19):
I host Wrestling Coast to Coast with one of my
best friends of twenty five years, Justin mccollins. Another best
friend of mine friend of our years, will be with
Wade tomorrow, which fam Justin and I talk about a
different wrestling show every week us from independent wrestling scene.
We've covered the last couple of weeks shows from WRESTLMANU
Weekend from DeFi Wrestling, and I'm drawing a blank on

(01:47:43):
the one we covered a few weeks ago, which was
Preceige Wrestling out of the West Coast. This week we're
covering Action Wrestling Promotion, one of our fairs out of Tyrone, Georgia.
We're also going to be covering some other shows, like
some smaller TV shows like Chatted residing from hop would
has started taping shows again, so are going to be
in a couple of weeks. We've covered MLW. I think

(01:48:07):
we're going to try to cover the something from the
Crocket COPUF. We can find it. NWA's kind of all
over the place these days. They air their shows on Twitter.
Some of us don't have Twitter accounts anymore, but Justin
and I cover a different show every week, and yeah,
we all show you. It comes out Wednesday nights, and yeah,
that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:48:26):
To search pw torch in your podcast app to subscribe.
You can also find them at pw torch dot com
or the free versions at pw torch vp dot com
and the podcast section on demand. But the easiest way
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You'll see the daily cast logo pop up. You'll also

(01:48:48):
see the charcoal gray logo pop up. This is pw
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Within that app using your Apple account with just a
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(01:49:11):
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(01:49:32):
and questions for the flagship tomorrow. And finally, if you're
interested in being a volunteer writer for PW Torch, we
are continuing to round out our whole slate of articles
and trying to cover as much resting.

Speaker 3 (01:49:44):
As we can.

Speaker 1 (01:49:45):
There's so much out there. It takes a team and
you can be part of it. You can apply at
Kellerwade at gmail dot com. Just let me know what
you're interested in it. You can click on the staff
link on PW torch dot com and scroll down to
see the openings for slots for certain regular fats, but
we're open to other ideas too. If you're interested in
contributing again, you can email me at Kellerwaight at gmail

(01:50:06):
dot com if it's not related to this podcast, but
more the website that is email to use and let
me know what what's you're interested in. Chris, thanks a lot,
appreciate it. We'll continue to have a fun time watching
these these NBA playoffs too. It's it's a it's a
good final. It's a good final eight speller alert.

Speaker 3 (01:50:22):
Something fun just happened.

Speaker 1 (01:50:23):
But I now, please, I I really don't want to know.
Even if now I know the game's out a blow
that takes like twenty percent of my fun away. So
I don't know that know that, but now I think
I know that. So I'm gonna go put that game
on while I do a bunch of editing of stuff. So,
but but I think it's a fun It's game one.
I mean, it's not that big, but it's a fun
This is a fun matchup, Okay, see in Denver. I

(01:50:46):
mean that every seriously, this is the four semifinals or
conference semifinals are all great history and great star power,
and tomorrow night I'll have fun.

Speaker 2 (01:50:55):
Yeah, I don't like the fact that the Eastern Coast
Games start at seven. For my own personal life with
two young kids, I kind of missed the early parts
of it, but at least in the West Coast Games,
so that's the one benefit from me.

Speaker 3 (01:51:09):
He's not ending at one in the mornings.

Speaker 1 (01:51:12):
Yes, awesome, Thanks everybody in the chat. As always, thanks
for callers, and we will talk to you next time.
Take care everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:51:21):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:51:53):
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions
or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at
pet w toorch dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at pw
toorch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. You
can follow us on Twitter at pw torch and follow
me at the Wadekeller. That's at PW Torch and at
the Wadekeller.

Speaker 12 (01:52:16):
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot need along
with other pro wrestling media members. Plus The Pro Wrestling
Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and

(01:52:37):
all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at
PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:52:47):
Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we
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Create a tab or bookmark, make it a daily stop.
Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up
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(01:53:10):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
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bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
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Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestlings past

(01:53:32):
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such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious
career of Jusian Thunderliger and our eye was there when
shows where our guests will join me to talk about
a classic bout that they were in attendance for.

Speaker 13 (01:53:47):
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(01:54:07):
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Speaker 1 (01:54:12):
See you in the Paradise. One way that you can
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Speaker 4 (01:54:51):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
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podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
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Speaker 5 (01:55:06):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT talks
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PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add free
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