The Secret of Secrets Review

folks, we're back after convalescing for a week and it's time to get rage-baited into reviewing a Dan Brown book. the latest entry in Brown's ongoing series about Robert Langdon is called The Secret of Secrets and it's set in Prague, so it's tailor-made to really annoy Dr. Eleanor. we review Brown's most recent bad Umberto Eco ripoff, talk about the Dan Brown mania of early-2000s America, bad history, and much more. enjoy!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, Hi, Hi, Hey, hey, I'm I am able to
work kind of, so like, let's fucking.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Go, are you.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
I'm definitely a lot better and that I do not
have a fever, which is awesome and et cetera, et cetera.
But I basically just didn't like the non specified tummy
hort minds at the moment. You know, it's like no
one suffered like me, et cetera. I guess what I've

(00:38):
learned over the past week is flu got hands, get
flu shots everybody, That's what. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
I thought I had more time. I felt like you
couldn't get the flu in October. Look at this is
Hubris call me Ozamandias the way you know.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
You laughed, you looked out, you look down at the calendar.
It's still said October, and you were.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Like, hmmm, I'll be fine, I said.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
You were like, I don't I don't have to worry.
I'm good November.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, well, I felt like I was like flew as
a winter problem. I don't know, dude, Like turns out
not so much like anyway. Yeah, it's that so like
I think a warning for those who shall be warned.
That's that's what you know, I did finish this garbage

(01:33):
fucking book. We're gonna talk.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
About how dare you? How dare you? You're you're don't
don't don't talk like that, eleanor the fevers getting to
you again? Yeah, I mean if you're saying things you don't.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, like it was. It was definitely like one of
these things where I was like, is it this bad?
Or am I like hallucinating? I don't really understand what's
going on? But yeah, yeah, like I learned a lot
about myself. Yeah, things of this nature. How how was

(02:09):
your your week? Oh?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Fantastic? I don't have the flu?

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Hell bro flex.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Flex yes, like coming in like, oh oh gonna pussy
got the flu? Huh yeah, you big baby, like a
bully at school, like pushing your head like, hey, oh Chad. However,
I have portrayed myself as the Chad disease, not have her,

(02:47):
and you as the sickly Victorian infant.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
It's so bad because I couldn't do anything, like I
just sat around cyber bullying people, which I'd like kind
of soren off.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
You know.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
I was like, I'm gonna yet here you here, you are.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Simul again, I know, I was like, I'm gonna go
cyber bully labor supporters, I don't.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Know, become the very thing you swore to destroy it.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Oh well, look I never swarted to destroy people who
were cyberbullying labor supporters, as like saw.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
That one down.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
But you know, uh, it's it's been it's been a week,
you know, and you know it's like you know that
thing of the like a you're always posting the worst,
like when bad things are happening, like you know you're
posting goes downhill when you're in like a good frame
of mind and everything's fine. It's like you know you're

(03:48):
posting you do quality posting at times of distress. Right,
So yeah, I definitely cyberbullied someone with a joke. I
laughed at my own choke until I cry earlier, while
Justin was like, you can't do that. You're gonna get
in trouble. Don't cyberbully that person, And I was like, oh.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
I thought it was like you can't. You can't laugh
at your own joke. I'm like, well I'm not. I
don't want to live anymore.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
And he keeps being like, are you in trouble for
cyber bullying? That person. I was like, I'm not in
trouble at.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
All, Like, don't get yourself in trouble cyberbullying. Now, I
just want you.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
I want everybody to know. I want everybody to know
that what you can do if you want a cyber
bully people, though, is that I went and found that
there exists a book by someone called Ronnie Cassano that
is called Kicked in the Head by a Horse Stories.
That's just a really good thing to your pride to

(04:49):
people with if you want a cyber bully though, that's all.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
And just when it's like that old book the English
are the human and yeah, exactly, that's a that's a quality.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
That's a good one.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Listen, I don't want to hear it you uh, as
as an immigrant to Britain, you have to be out
mentoring several British children at any moment to keep living there,
which like you know, I uh, it's weird because like
is it the whole thing? Like just immigrants are supposed

(05:27):
to be bad, but now they're mentoring like the poor, uh,
the poor ignorant uh sheep herders again, like.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
What apparently we have to we have to like volunteer
and mentor and all this stuff, and I'm all, like
a girl, like the only skill I have is cyberboy,
So like what the kids are about to learn something? Right?

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Every time, every time labor suggest anything, it's.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Just the stupidest thing you've ever heard.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Well it is, but I always think think of how
much red tape, how many people it would take to
actually administer this, like everything like that, And I'm like, like,
I mean, it's not good that they're saying and stuff
like this. It's I mean, it's a credibly stupid but like,

(06:19):
like there's no fucking way, Like you guys are talking
about having any money, how are you going to enforce it?
Are you going to wait? Like I mean, realistically, if
you want to do this, you would have to set
up like parole officer type thing like liaisons for all
immigrants to talk to and like, aside from the fact

(06:42):
that that treats them like psycho class citizens and criminals
and everything like that. And I mean you shouldn't treat
criminals like that anyway. But regardless, that would be so
fucking expensive something. And you guys are like, we can't
spare nine dollars to go like you know, oh, if
we only had nine dollars, we could end child poverty

(07:05):
in this country. Like can't do it? Sorry, you know, yeah,
forty million to another forty million to Israel and Peter
Thiel somehow.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, Like it's it's absolutely incredible that like we are
like systemaously dismantling the university system and we're like we'll
just make up for it by forcing immigrants to mentor people.
It's like, yeah, let's just like take apart one of
the only fucking working there. There are like three industries
other than banking in the United Kingdom, and they are

(07:37):
the universities and the creative sector and and like where
we're just like, no, you can't, you can't have that, right,
Like we're gonna we're gonna destroy both of those things
and we'll just like hope that immigrants like can make
up for it, right, Like ugh, I swear to god,
it's just it's it's dire out year.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
So I know it's so trying to laugh at you,
but like I like every time I see it, I'm like,
there's no fucking way, Like there is no way, Like
they wouldn't even be able to get the appropriate It's fine.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
What yeah, you know what It's like this is an
object lesson for those who like would be warned, you know,
when people try to kind of like sheep dog you
into voting for liberals or whatever. It's like, what ends
up happening is this labor government where they just like
do all the fascist stuff anyway and get mad if
you point it out. It's just like.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, where you get the milk
toast opposition here who most of whom wouldn't even be
seen anywhere near the very large No Kings rallies, which
we're very heartening to see. Yes, I was glad to
see that many people out. I believe it's by a

(08:52):
number of the largest protest action in American history. And yeah,
I don't think anybody should be under any illusions that
anything's going to come from that, but I think the
numbers are heartening, and I think, you know, the socialists
and Marxists and communists out there who are out there

(09:14):
making inroads. That's good because the Democratic Party is not
going to do anything in twenty twenty six. Of people
are good and a lot of these people are finally
going to realize that, oh no, the system is irre
irreparably fucked and it wouldn't it have been better if
they realized earlier? Yes? Would it have been better if

(09:36):
I realized earlier? Yes, But like you know, you come
to it when you come to it, and uh cool,
you know the I'll stand beside the wine moms or
you know whatever it is. I don't really care, like
you know, win moms in the in the the annoyed
Hillbillies and you know whatever, let's go. Let's fucking go anyone,

(09:59):
you know as you as long as you sign up
for the program, let's fucking go. I don't really care.
People are like, oh, I see all these Internet leftis
talking down about this, Like I haven't seen anyone do that.
I've seen people being like, wow, that's a lot of people.
We got a lot of work to do.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
Like not, yeah, that's a lot of people, you guys,
why I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Of that.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
It's like even then it was like taken out of context,
I think where it's like basically you know the person
was like and then you know the next step is
going to be like converting all of this into like
you know action, and I'm and I'm like, yeah, that's great,
and I just I don't really think that you know,
the the as per usual. I do not feel that

(10:42):
the mythical internet leftist who doesn't like the ship exists,
you know, like I think that it's it's super heartening
and I was happy, uh to to see everybody out.
That was something nice that I did. Was kind of
like look at those videos on on Saturday when I
couldn't leave the house. So that was awesome, you know,

(11:04):
give me something to do. And you know what, you know,
he's mad, you know, like you don't go around making
like the diarrhea video if you're like, you know, our
big diarrhea president.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah he was. He was so so mad. Reposted an
AI video of him flying some kind of fighter jet
and h bombing the protesters with diarrhea. Like and another thing,
I'm not mad, Like I don't even there's like so
many like we don't have enough time to talk, like

(11:37):
there are so many things about that video that like
I just I have so so many questions about, like
like one of them is that like the plane clearly
has missiles, which I assume are like missiles filled with shit,
Like okay, like that's stupid, but okay, but like the
thing but then the video is like the plane and
it just looks like it looks like that thing from

(11:59):
the office of the guy just like pouring chili on
the floor, Like it looks like that is what's happening
across like a bunch of like very obviously AI protesters.
You're like, what the like, it's just yeah, my god,
well fucking god, the indignity of this. I'm not saying

(12:21):
America doesn't deserve this. We absolutely fucking deserve this, but like, uh,
I mean no, the people don't America as an institution.
You guysn't know what I mean anyway, like embarrassing, but
also like genuinely hilarious in ways that they clearly didn't intend,

(12:44):
like really like like they're just like, oh, yeah, I
took a shit everywhere. Uh took a shit on the
protesters because we couldn't show him actually bombing them. But
it's like he's flying a fighter jet above them while
wearing a crown, Like aren't you that's fine? I don't.
There's no use in expecting ideological there's no use in

(13:06):
expecting it that sense, like, let alone any ideological anything
from the reactionary right, But yeah, fuck them, we ball
uh as always out there join the Marxist reading group.
Join that's right, Join a party, if you if you,

(13:27):
if you are, if you are good enough to live
in a country that has real party.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
In the Green Party in the United Kingdom, a real
common Green party.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Socialist party. That'd be cool, uh, in a country like
if we like if someone just I don't know started
like a you know, like a like a like a
third party, and like then you know, we kind of
touched that off, and then we could do like a
whole like third rail type thing, and we could there'd
be a bunch of more parties, and then we could
put all the parties in, like you know, a big

(14:00):
union of socialist groups and then fight it out, you know,
like the old times, and then go from there. Wouldn't
that be nice? Anyway, Let's talk about.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
The worst book I've read in quite some time.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Let's talk about let's talk about the beautiful city of Prague.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, let's sucking, do it. Let's sucking.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Go Hello and welcome back to We're Not So Different,

(14:59):
a podcast about how uh, I just it really just
looks like the chili from a chili dog coming out
of the jet and I cannot get out of my
mind because like used to it, like like a baseball
game or like a football game. You go to the
concessions and they'd be like put chili on it. And

(15:19):
I mean, it's like it's fucking gross looking, but you
could like squeeze this thing and it like chili would
come down on top of it. That's exactly what it
looked like, and like that is all I can think
of it, like, is like it's supposed to be diar,
yet it looks like somebody just dropped like a vat
of chili, like a hot, steamy god damn it. Anyway,
Hey everyone, uh hello. We sometimes try to talk about

(15:42):
medieval history, but not today today baby, we got a
new book to talk about. But first I got a question,
a couple of questions from our patrons. First from Andrea,
who says, I'm planning a trip to Prague next year
and I'm wondering when is the best time to go.
If you want to avoid tourists, what should I check

(16:03):
out slash visit if you want to deep dive into
Bohemian history. My mother in law's family comes from Bohemia.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
Hey, fantastic, I love this for you. I firmly believe
that the best time of year to go to Prague
Ya pro Scipol theme go in the autumn for you know,
like October is probably the most beautiful month for ultimate
tourist avoidance. November is a little bit better because tourists

(16:30):
will start coming again in like December for the Christmas
markets and stuff. So like November is just kind of
like a bit of a lull, a bit quiet. If
you do want to go in earlier December, try to
be there for December first from equal aush which is
like Saint Nicholas, and it's a big street party and

(16:54):
that's quite fun. It's not bad to go in March either,
if you're more of a spring per it might still
be snowing, to be honest, it often is, but there
aren't a whole lot of people around them. Similarly, January
you can go and it's a good cold weather city.
By like, under no circumstances, may you go there in

(17:16):
the summer. I am telling you do not do that.
Just do not go there in the summer. It will
be so full of tourists that you cannot move. Check
people will not be there, and it is so fucking hot.
It is so fucking hot. Just do not go there
in the summer. I'm begging you run for your life
for me, though I would go, I would go in
the autumn. Personally, I think it's it's the most gorgeous.

(17:41):
Honorable mentions for other places to go in Bohemia if
you want to check it out, I like pills in
a lot where the beer comes from. You could also
check out Chiske Bluwitze, which is quite good. Just a
cruel love is kind of like the traditional one. It's
like a cute little it's just like a gorgeous, gorgeous

(18:01):
little town. It's very much on the tourist route. But
you know there's a there's a reason for it, you know,
so that's absolutely fine. The two classic day trips from
Prague are classics for a reason. You can go to
chis Ke Krolov, sorry not.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
You can go to.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
See Carlstein Castle, which is my favorite castle in the world,
and it's got a really excellent series of frescoes commissioned
by Emperor Charles the Fourth. One of the downsides of
going in winter is the major chapel with all like
the gold walls and everything is closed, so you can't
go see that. So you might want to be there

(18:40):
in the autumn instead when you can, so that is
pretty good. And then the other classic one is a
Kutnora where you can go see the ossuary that is
all decorated with bones. And also like do not sleep
on this fuffy Barbara cathedral. It's really worth your time.

(19:02):
People go to Carlo Uvari as well, which I don't do.
I also think that is that's a good thing. So
if you want to go bathe, if you wish to
go take the waters, then that's an excellent thing to do.
So these are all, you know, the top things outside
of Prague. Progue itself though, is incredibly charming and you're
gonna need like at least five days, so like, don't

(19:24):
try to overload yourself with day trips. Prague can be
very overwhelming because like you just kind of like get
a little too hype. So just like pace yourself and
if you want to get in good with the locals,
the thing you do is your first round when you
get to the bar, is you order a shot of
Becarovka along with your beer and then they will like
you just don't get too drunk. Yeah, that's like these

(19:48):
are my top tips.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yes, sounds amazing. It is Prague Chamber of Commerce. Hire me, cowards, Yeah,
hire her me to come. That'd be fun. I come
there and be like, this is beautiful. Do not ask
me about my personal politics. Just a kind of illegal

(20:11):
there anyway. But Andrea or Andrea, thank you very much
for the question. If you're Southern like me, you say Andrea,
but most people probably say Andrea. So yeah, there you go.
We got a question from MG in your face. So
we know people move from cities for work. What was
the equivalent of moving from one city to another for

(20:33):
the vibes and or possibly lower cost of living, such
as New York to La La to Austin and you know,
going from any of those to like Bali. It's not
that the work is in those cities so much as
they can make their work when they're they're for the scene.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah, I mean, I guess to an extent, that's kind
of stuff like when burgers would get invited other places
like in order to set up, like say you're a
minor of some description and you know the king or
the emperor wants you to move there, and when they're
all like yeah, like come check it out, like you
can have like a bigger house here and like special

(21:14):
tax rates and things like that, and you know, it's
definitely something that people vaguely talk about, like you know,
you occasionally see especially like people a lot of people
like the number one place where people are moving for
vibes for like big city vibes is New York. Sorry,

(21:35):
New York, Jesus qush, I'm so sorry, guys. I'm like
really coming out of the flu is Paris. So Paris
is like the one at the time where there's all
these people from all over Europe living in Paris and
like and oftentimes they're like super super broken. They're like
but bright light's big city, No no, I love it,
but I love it though, I love.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
It, you know.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
And then like you know, the equivalent for you know,
a slower pace of it is actually often like moving
to the Mediterranean, right, Like you know, you get down
to kind of like southern France and everyone's like, yeah,
like the vibes are good, you know, there is there
is rather a lot of that, and it's like you
see a lot of people talking about this in France

(22:16):
being like oh yeah, like the southern places like they're
all artsy, they're more chilled out down there. It's like
a it's like a better scene, right, so like your
oc tongue, you're Gascony places like that where people will
be like, oh yeah, like Vibe Central. I guess that
there is rather a lot of kind of like a
switching around in the Italian city states as well.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Right, I was thinking, I was thinking, this just sounds
like Florence.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, Florence like undefeated.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yeah, come to most city state, it's the best. All
of the city states suck.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah, right, like so, and there is like rather a
lot of I mean, like like we see when we're
doing book club for the de Cameron right now, you know,
there is rather there are a lot of switching up
your city states and moving around. I guess within that too,
like you know what we're kind of seeing Bocaccio. So
it's like a lot of people like move to Greece.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
It seems like people are just like nice out there.
I just really like I like the islands. Yeah, I
love their urns. I love them, love to make odes
on them. Yeah, totally hell yeah. So oh man, uh

(23:29):
that's it. I'm moving to to fucking Greece and they're
like okay, all right, bye, see you.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
I am having What are you.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
Gonna, like, what are you gonna do out there? Are
you gonna you're gonna work the soil, You're gonna you're
gonna make some olives? What are we doing?

Speaker 3 (23:48):
You know?

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Right?

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Like you know indeterminate trading trading right?

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, I'm going I'm going to be a Greek philosopher
like that hasn't been a thing in like a thousand years.
Doggy cares, Nobody cares about them.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, No one wants new philosophy from you.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
No, no, back in your back, in your cage, look
pretty and make olive go make.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
That's that's basically what I want out of people.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah. Yeah, I hate olives, love the oil. Uh the
taste of olive. Wo No, I just wow, I don't
like olives. It's fine. I love pickles. Give me pickles, Okay, No,
I see that.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
I see that. Okay.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
They just it's the taste, and I could taste like
the olive in anything. It's fine anyway. Yeah, thanks anyway,
the olive is still good. Thanks grease anyway, in your face,
thank you very much for the question. Uh, if you
want to ask us questions like these, in which case

(24:56):
I might reveal something odd about my some purposes for food. Then,
by all means, please do subscribe to Patreon dot com
slash w nsdpod five dollars a month. You get all
these episodes out free bonus episodes, including coming later this week,

(25:16):
our long awaited and much requested review of Ridley Scott's
two thousand and five work Kingdom of Heaven Extended Edition,
which I love but will not argue is like a

(25:37):
good or great movie, but I love it a lot. Anyway,
we'll talk about that on Friday. You'll love it. But yeah,
check that out. Sign up. It's fun, ask us questions
and yeah, anyway, let's let's talk about Dan fucking Brown.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
Man.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
I thought I heard I thought i'd heard the last
of you long time ago.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah. No, I haven't heard that name in years.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Today, Yeah, today, we come together to review the latest
Dan Brown book, entitled The Secret of Secrets. It is
Brown's sixth work in his series on fictional Harvard symbologist
Robert Langdon and his many run ins with the Catholic Church,
the Illuminati, the historical record, and more. Now, if you're

(26:26):
on the younger side of our audience, or just don't
remember very well, there was a time back in the
early two thousands when a new Dan Brown book was
the big thing in pop culture. No, I'm actually serious.
It spawned multiple Tom Hanks led motion pictures, and the
early books became events, with the second novel, The Da
Vinci Code, being highly anticipated, almost on the level of

(26:49):
a new Harry Potter novel, and receiving high praise upon release.
No doubt, plenty of people read this stuff and thought
it was drek, but the popular conception for quite some
time that this was a book for smart people who
considered them who considered weighty and serious topics. It really
was a terribly bref time in terms of culture. Don't

(27:09):
let anyone tell you otherwise, like the two thousand to
like two thousand and nine or two thousand and eight
just dreadful anyway. Yeah, if you don't know the novels,
follow Langdon, who is invariably wisked off some stunning, faraway
locale to uncover a mystery that has shocking worldwide implications

(27:33):
through a combination of banal observations, boring talk of symbols,
dumb luck, and being a capital S, capital H, capital
G smart history guy. If this description is giving you
big Dollar Store umberto Echo vibes, Well, that wasn't lost
on anyone back when it was popular either. Late in life,

(27:55):
after receiving literally dozens of requests on the subject, Echo
finally coped, having read the Da Vinci Code, which an
interviewer said was often compared to Focult's pendamin Pendulum. Excuse
my Pendulum is one of Echo's other books about cryptology
and is not about the Focult you're thinking about. It's

(28:16):
about the other one. But anyway, Echo was quite aware
of this and took it in good humor, replying quote,
the author Dan Brown is a character from Faucult's Pendulum.
I invented him. He shares my character's fascinations, the world
of conspiracy, of rescrusions, Masons and Jesuits, the role of
the Knight's Templar, the hermetic secret, the principle that everything

(28:38):
is connected. I suspect Dan Brown might not even exist.
End quote. Now, well, it's unlikely that this quote itself
ended Dan Brown's career. He was clearly still writing and
making fabulous sums of money from doing so. It does
sum up the changing sensibilities toward Dan Brown by the
end of the aughts, once the darling of suppose It's

(29:00):
smart people, we all sort of realized we had far
bigger problems, admitted we made too big a deal about it,
and moved on relegating Dan Brown's work to the airport bookshelves.
It deserves hell, Eleanor. Until Eleanor told me about this book,
I didn't even know he continued releasing Robert Langdon books.
I have to follow up to the Da Vinci Code,

(29:21):
so neither of us have read the full series. Brown's
latest bit of a very poorly written emberto Echo ripoff,
The Secret of Secrets is mostly said in Prague, which
was enough motivation for Eleanor to hate read it and
then complain about it for this episode, And we do
appreciate her efforts despite the fact that I do love

(29:41):
to introduce things and go through their lore. I can't
even be bothered with this shit, so it's doing much
background other than discussing the cultural phenomena surrounding Brown's books.
Sometimes it's just nice to make fun of a very
bad book without getting caught up in the minutia. Before
we get to this, Eleanor, what is your lasting memory

(30:03):
of Dan brown Mania that swept America? For almost a decade.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Okay, so I remember I guess I was actually living
in Sydney at the time when this particular thing happened,
because I think I was living in Sydney for the
Angels and Demons bit or whatever. And it's like I
remember it coming out, and I remember being incredibly incensed

(30:29):
because it's like, you know, the idea that Jesus and
Mary Magdalen were married and had a child is like
a fact, like not a see like this is just
a matter of historical record, right, like it's fine, it's good.
And I remember being like, that's incredibly stupid. But I
was like on a train like trying to get into

(30:50):
the city. I think I've been at my in laws
out in the suburbs, and there was like this guy
talking who was like middle aged, talking to like a
guy in his twentieth and they were like excitedly talking
about it, and they were like saying things that were
just like completely factually incorrect about the Knight's templar, and
I was just like seeding, like I was just like

(31:10):
I just wanted to like claw my fucking eyes out
because it was just like so wildly incorrect and incredibly frustrating,
and I hated it so much, and I was like,
I wish that this wouldn't happen, and it just like
it just struck me how it seemed to me that

(31:32):
what had been created here was a book that makes
stupid people feel smart, yeah, which is like pretty the
ultimate way to make money.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
I guess, yeah, yeah, I mean I think I do
think that's a big part of it. It's it's also
just like it's one of those things that like, look,
we all read shit like this, like we all read like,
you know, yeah, airport fiction like stuff like that, and
there'sn't I mean, there's really there's nothing wrong with it.

(32:04):
It's it's nice to just have some like dumb story
you like, you know, like grate the Star Wars novels,
because it's, you know, I'm comfortable in this universe. I
can read them real fast, you know that, like whatever.
But like the problem is when like stuff like that
gets taken as like a factual thing, like like like

(32:26):
this is anything more than like a like a just
like a It's it's just a fun book. And like
the you know, people people believing that that Jesus was
married to Mary Magdalen or you know, conceive children just
through some other with another woman or or whatever. It's

(32:47):
pretty old hat, like it's not like it's not shocking.
I was not raised in Catholic dogma in any way,
shape or for him, and I knew that. I knew
that that was a concept, like by the time this
book came by the time these books came out. So
it's like, and I mean, I'm not I don't think
Brown is Dann Brown is a good writer, but he
does like he does at least now. He's like, I

(33:11):
just like telling stories about this guy, like, you know,
like I make money.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
I like to.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
He's not out there doing it like much like George
or Martin stopped being like it's so historically accurate, and
he's just like, look at this fun story I made you, Like, yes, George,
good good, Yeah, good work. Yeah exactly. Yeah, I know
we can we can argue about, you know, the historical
accuracy that is there, and I think there's a good
bit of it, but like, yeah, Brown's kind of like yeah,

(33:38):
I just like right, you know, He's like, uh, I
think the Mary Magdalene Jesus things fun. Like he basically
sounds like Marge going I just think it's neat and
like I just kind of have to be like, all right, man,
I don't like your writing, but I get that at
least anyway. My lasting, my entire lasting memory of this
is the Da Vinci Code movie where Tom Hanks is

(34:02):
running through something and uh, you know, the cardinals are
there and you and McGregor is one of them. He
runs up and he goes illuminatus and he extremes and
points at someone and I think he was that guy
and he was trying to like he was trying to
like throw him off. I don't remember. I don't remember

(34:23):
it well enough, but like yet he's McGregor always throws
himself into anything he does, and it's just so fucking
funny because he's just like illuminatus and it's like like
loudest like you know, just like screen chewing you and
McGregor thing he's ever done, and you're just like hell yeah, brother,

(34:47):
And I'm glad that's my lasting memory of it because
at least it's funny. But yeah, like why you know,
just like as a pop culture thing, like why do
you think this became such a thing? Was this just
kind of a over from the end of the Cold
war and the malaise of the early wa years, and
we were look, look it's America. We don't have to
worry about anything, right now. This is great.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah, Like it's interesting. I think it is like very
like long nineties sort of a book, do you know
what I mean, where it's kind of like I think
that it's very much written with Americans in mind, And
it's sort of like I'm going to sew together everywhere

(35:34):
you've been on holiday, right, Like you know, I'm like
the one European holiday you took in a book, right,
and so you can feel like you're a part of it.
Like and because it's like so stupid and it's like
really easy to kind of like follow, you know, like

(35:54):
all the little puzzles or whatever. I think that it
allows people to cast themselves as the main character, right,
Like this is just a kind of a Mary Sue
character that you can you can slip into and so
then you are like the world famous professor of symbology
question mark. And I think that it also just like

(36:16):
taps into like these you know again, like the very
American idea of like you know, the the weird Catholic cabal, right,
Like it's like there is there is.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
So Echo was Italian and he came up with a
weird Catholic cabal on his own, thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
That's absolutely right. And now, to be fair, there also
was a Catholic cabal, right right, especially getting that was
like being exposed at the time, which is all the
kiddy fitling, yes, yes, yes, right. So I think that
it's just kind of like playing off of those things.
So I think it's kind of like a part of this. Oh,

(36:55):
like the world is opening up a little bit more
flights are becoming cheaper, and also, by the way, America
are like the world police. So if someone's going to
get to the bottom of this, it has to be
like some guy from Harvard, right.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
It's always going to be a guy from Harvard just
saving the fucking day, man.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
Mm hmmm mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I'm intered in
a second ago, I like for a little like I think,
you know, I mean, Eleanor can speak more to this.
I think there was a time when like people kind
of thought this was serious history for a minute, like
it was, and I don't think anyone really feels like

(37:36):
that anymore, like or at least like you know, it's
not a widely held idea, and I think, you know,
I I think a lot of like with the with
the expansion of the Internet, I think a lot of
people become aware, can become aware of like phenomenon things
much easier. So it's not like it was in two

(37:56):
thousand and three when like Protestant you know, housewives or
you know whatever had were scandalized because they'd never the
idea of Jesus being married was is not like a
Protestant thing basically at all, and uh, you know, and
so that could become a thing, but I think now

(38:17):
it's not really considered that.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
But yeah, yeah quite so yeah, like you know, it
was kind of of its time, but apparently homeboys still
at it. Yeah, well for some reason.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Let's yeah, let's uh, let's get into it. So, uh,
eleanor you uh were good enough to read this, and
I'm not going to go into any more detail. We're
not gonna go any more any more detail about like
this Ross Unberto Echo, like you know, the Name of
the Rose is fantastic and his other works are too,

(38:53):
but like, uh, they this is not in the same
level like this is. You know, this is like childish
pastiche compared to like that. But anyway, and for the record,
the only one of them that I've read is the
Da Vinci Code. But yeah, anyway, eleanor what how how

(39:15):
how does the Secret of Secrets begin? I assume that
we start off with a seemingly unrelated event that will
be looped in later.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
Yeah, that is one hundred what we start off with.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
It starts off shocked.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
I know, like it's like this motherfucker is just like
flashing back and forth anywhere. I will read you the
first line of this book, just so you know. So
I I purchased this book from a nice independent bookstore
that where I had gone to like sign some books,
and I was like, ugh, and I've like went up
to the counter and I was like, I'm buying this,
but I'm shaking my head the whole time, Just so

(39:49):
you know that I disagree with it. Right anyway, get
ready for this rip roaring, open sentence, opening sentence. I
must have died.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
The woman thought, thank you, thank you. Yeah, this is
worse than this is worse than my stuff. Let's go,
let's go.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
This is so like a good anyway, Like there is
a lady whose name we learn later who is a
woman who is like dying slash being tortured to death
and she kind of is seeing herself over Prague and
that's how it begins. And then and it's like okay,

(40:43):
but she's like, but I'm a brain scientist. I don't
believe that I could be experiencing something after death because
I'm a big scientist, science so serious, you know, So yeah,
like how about this? For years, doctor Brigita Guester had

(41:04):
derided her patient's claims of returning from the brink of death.
Now she found herself praying that she could join the
ranks of those rare souls who had danced on the
edge of oblivion, peered into the abyss and somehow stepped
back from the precipice. I can't die. I have to
warn the others. But she knew it was too late.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
His life was over. How could you deny that that
people come back from the brink of death? Near death
experience is like, it's a well attested phenomenon, like brain,
brain chemicals. Why why would they not that? That's like
someone that's like someone being like, oh, yes, I'm actually

(41:43):
a well known patent attorney. And then someone coming up
being like, hey, I got a patent for a bicycle,
and they're like, I didn't know you could patent that. Wait,
you can patent things. You're like, what the fuck is
your problem? Man?

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Yeah, so it's like you know where we're a start
it out, like, you know, being introduced to the idea
that we shouldn't think of. I guess consciousness is what
he's getting at, as like a you know, a reaction
to chemicals in the brain. And then it goes into

(42:16):
that to Robert Langdon waking up in bed next to
his new girlfriend.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Age appropriate.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
She is aged propri's older, she's older than him, which
we appreciate from.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Dan ironic thank you.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yeah, it's interesting though, because like so they're like they
wake up in the Four Seasons hotel in Prague and
then like he goes out for a swim, and I
swear to God, like this is the point in time
when what I firmly believe to be paid product placements begin. Okay,

(43:00):
so there are there are several points in the book
where I just feel like he has received money to
shout out varying products. I'm going to read you one
such now, Okay, because like this is right at the

(43:21):
end of the book. And I got so angry about
this that I like, I read it out loud to
Blair and he was like, what the fuck? And I
was like, I know, Okay, Okay. Got so, it's the
end of the book and Catherine the love interest and
Robert are about to fuck.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Okay, Okay, here we go.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
After letting her hair down, Catherine dropped her towel and
slipped into her near weightless line Wait lingerie. Oh no,
I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Sorry, sorry, take that part out,
hold on, okay. After driving off, she reached beneath the
sink and pulled out the handsomely wrapped package that she
had hidden there early. It contained the most elegant piece

(44:02):
of lingerie Catherine had ever purchased, Simone Perell's Machiato silk.
She hoped Robert would like the sophisticated one piece from
their dream collection.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
After letting her hair down, Catherine dropped her towel and
slipped into the near weightless lingerie. The silk felt luxurious
against her warm skin, falling perfectly over her body. Foregoing
her usual ballade savage, she pulled out the tiny spritzer
sampler of mojave ghosts that had come with the lingerie.
She sprayed a cloud of mist into the air and

(44:37):
walked through it, her senses aroused by the notes of
chantilly musk and powdery violet. You cannot tell me that
is not paid, Like, motherfuckers, you just say she hoped
that he would like this elegant one piece from their
dream collection. Get out of my face. Like who writes

(44:57):
like this? There's like a whole section about how great
ipha owns are. I swear to fuck like he's received
money from the Speedo Corporation. I'm pretty sure that he
has received money from a particular hotel in Prague to
talk about their prosecco brunch like it's intense. It just
and I have no way of knowing because the FCC

(45:21):
doesn't require you to disclose whether or not you were
paid to do advertising in books only like movies and
you know things like that, So like I'll never fucking know,
but like, but I know in my soul, I know
in my soul that that is true, right, And it's
just like it just starts automatically and it doesn't stop

(45:43):
all the fucking way through, And I hate it so much.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
I hate it. Oh my god, that is fantastic. Like,
I'll be honest, like, whenever a an attractive woman is
wearing next to nothing, I am considering uh uh the
maker of the laungerie under where she.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Has on Simon Perel's dream collection.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
Damn girl, you sprang for the big thing, the nice
stuff for me? Oh?

Speaker 3 (46:12):
Is that is that?

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Oh that perfume? I lovely like I'm always doing that.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
I'm noticing the chantilly musk and powdery violet on the
dry down there.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, I definitely don't have like giant eyes that are
spinning together and I'm a wolf's a wolf's mouth has
formed on my face and I'm I'm.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
Definitely not hitting myself with a mallet repeated.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
Yeah, definitely not literally thinking, my god, I'm so lucky
that this is amazing. Oh my god. Uh yeah, I
mmm my god, what a fucking.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
It's just weird. It's really jarring, I guess is the
thing to read things like that constant.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
I just don't like what a weirdly specific fetish I
like I have. I can only assume, like, I mean, yeah,
like it's either paid or weirdly specific fetish, and honestly
like I respect weirdly specific fetish far more than being
paid to put it in there. My god, So I

(47:26):
I haven't read this, but you did send me, yeah,
a picture, or you did send me a few screenshots
of it. One of them involved him fighting a gollumn.
So I need to know you know what kind of

(47:47):
gollumn are we talking here?

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Okay, So one of the bad guys in the book
is a like self professed goal right, and like okay,
So so it's like like it's this entire thing, so like, listen,

(48:11):
I just want you all to know I'm about to
spoil this book for you because you should have read it.
You should have read it, okay.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
So it's like I didn't even give a spoiler warning
because I didn't care. Like if you're like, if you're
you're like spoilers, I'm like, yeah, get out.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
So the lady who dies in like the prologue, she
is being tortured to death by someone who perceives themselves
to be a gollum. And they talk about this all
the time, and it's like and and then and like
obviously they're not saying it's a real gollum. They're saying
it's like a person who's reinvented themselves as a column
and like they put play all over them faces in

(48:47):
their face and write the shem on their forehead, and
they're going around killing people on behest of one of
the other characters who is like a Russian chick who
works at the lab of the woman who was killed.
And it transpires that like they're basically doing like, uh,

(49:10):
experimental brain surgery on her constantly, and the Gollumn like
kills people that he perceives as like harming her. Spoiler alert,
she is the Gollum. And it's like a split personality
thing at the end, but it all woman. Yeah, It's

(49:32):
like she like her brain has created a split personality
and like and she like dresses up. So there's this
this confusing and constant thing over and over again where
like people are just wearing bonker shit. There's like a
whole there's a whole plot line right at the beginning
where like dumbass Robert goes out for a fucking swim

(49:53):
and then he comes back to the hotel and then
he sees a woman on Charles Bridge, of course, who's
like bearing a crown and holding a spear and smells bad.
And he freaks out and thinks there's going to be
a bomb threat at the hotel because his girlfriend had
had a nightmare about this. But it turns out it's
just this shadowy CIA people who had a listening device

(50:15):
in their room who decided to like mimic this. They
never explain why that was necessary. Like the shadowy CIA
people are pursuing them all throughout the book and are
the major bad guy. The Gollum is kind of like
neither here nor there. The Gollum is also like happening,
so it's like a rogue arm of the CIA who
are like, uh, who are pursuing like Robert and Catherine

(50:37):
and trying to keep her from publishing a book. And
so it like it all starts off with like this
whole thing with this woman dressed up on the bridge,
and then they just like drop it and they never
explain why they did that. It's like, to what end?
What end did that serve? Like freaking him out? But
they're just like, no, don't worry about it. But both
there and in the case of this chick who's walking

(50:57):
around dressed up like the Gollum and progue, they're like, oh,
but everyone in Prague is just like so used to
people being dressed up in costumes. You know, it's really
normal for people to be dressed up in costumes in Prague.
And I'm like, no, the fuck it isn't. Like he
just keeps saying it over and over again, and I'm like,
there are holidays like at me Glauche. Like one of
the reasons you should go to prog for me Glauge

(51:19):
is that everyone dresses up like Saint Nicholas and angels
and demons, and it's like quite fun. But like it's
not like, oh, yeah, it's a Tuesday morning and like
someone's dressed up like the golem, unless like he's fucking,
you know, busking and like like that. It's and it's like, oh,
you know the they oh they do so much cosplay
in Progum. No they don't, No, they don't. Where do

(51:40):
you get that right?

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Maybe I'm a bad person, but if I saw someone
just dressed as a gollum in a city, my first
my first incline is should be like, wow, this person's
about to do something just incredibly anti semitic, Like this
is good, Like just like like somebody's gonna come up
and put a piece of paper in their mouth and
they're gonna like do or say some you know, just
like some incredible anti Semitic trope or something like that,

(52:04):
and it's just like like you like you've invented like oh, yeah,
what is there a famous gollumn of prog.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Yes, yes, okay, so there is so there is so
one of the big Gollum stories and uh, you know,
spoiler alert. I've just like written about this for the
blog this week. I want to make clear that I
was doing that before I started reading this garbage book,
but then I got a flu so I stopped. But
I've been writing about how the goalm is a lot
of like Ai and it says a lot about society,

(52:38):
but so like the major the major Gollum story is
from the nineteenth century, but it takes place in the
seventeenth century and it's like, uh, there's a famous rabbi,
Rabbi Judelo, and he's figured out how to make a
goalum and then depending on what version of the story

(52:59):
you basically it's like he makes the gollum the goalm
like protects the ghetto. Uh, but every Friday he takes
the shem either out of the Gollum's mouth or off
of the goalums forehead, depending what version of the story
it is off. And then the gollumn like goes to
sleep for the weekend, but then one Friday he forgets
to take it off, and the gollumn goes on a

(53:21):
fucking rampage and like kills a bunch of people. And
it's like a warning for who should be warned? Right,
So like that is it's like a specific prog based legend.
Uh So that's fine, but it's just like it's just
like it's just incredibly frustrating because what the entire book

(53:45):
reads like is that someone went on holiday one time,
like that Dan Brown went on holiday, and he was like,
I am now qualified to like write a book about Prague.
Like every single time he like mentions a landmark, it
reads like a Wikipedia entry. Like it's it's like, you know,
you'll talk about, you know, the Charles Bridge, and it's

(54:07):
just like, you know, it very clearly seems like he's
he's just like repurposing Wikipedia.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
He doesn't he doesn't even leave out like he doesn't
even leave out like the numbers and stuff you would
normally do, like the Charles Bridge is seven hundred and eighteen,
like feet like what the fuck.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
Man, like completely and like it's and it's just like
so fucking insulting. But like again, it's like I think
it's just for people who went on holiday one time.
They're like, oh yeah, I know all about that, right,
Like I know what about that?

Speaker 2 (54:36):
What do we call it when someone is orientalizing? Uh slovs?

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Yeah we need yeah, we need a word for it,
Like okay.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
All right, I'm serious Like this this seems like like
they're like, oh, the mysterious city and it's oh yeah,
I don't think. I don't mean any offense to Prague,
Like it's gorgeous. I would love to go. I would
love to visit, like it seems amazing, but like.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Yeah, it's like he's constantly talking about how you like
how prog is like dangerous and dark, and like what
are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Like it's just like still behind me. I guess you
could like you could be like it's mysterious like okay,
I guess because it's hard to get across whatever. But
like after that, you like I could fly there from
Atlanta today, like close to it, Like it's not it's.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
Not it's not exactly like mysterious and I mean so
but on to like the Slavic thing too. It's also
weird because he clearly doesn't understand that Progus are Slavac
like like that that checks because they're.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
I think they're like kind of like French, like like
it's East Paris or something.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Because it's like, okay, so when the galam is killing
the lady, right, she's like, oh, he speaks with the
Slavic accent, and I'm like, well, if you're.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Speaking Czech, yeah, everyone speaks checklist with like with a.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Slavic act, like we're Slavic, bro, Like I don't know
what to fucking tell you. But like by that he
was Russian. It's like the words that you were looking
there for the there is Russian, a Russian accent, like
I mean, we are Slavs, right, like I don't, but
he does the same, fucking like weird shit also with
Russians because it's like, you know, the chick who's getting

(56:25):
tortured or whatever the fuck, like like I can't stress
how much she's supposed to be like twenty five or
something like that. Yeah, and so she's like probably in
this like born in like nineteen ninety nine or nineteen
ninety eight. And part of the plot is that because
she was epileptic, her parents like leave her, like completely
abandon her in an asylum at.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Like the age of eleven, Like are the spartans, Like
they're spartans with their children and they they're like this,
this won't be a good warrior and they dash it
against the box or what.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
Yeah, Like you know how Russians are, You know how
Russians are, Like Russians in the Year of Our Lord
twenty ten just like abandoned their children in and I
was just like, what the fuck are you talking about?
And it's like in the Russian asylums. Of course, she's
just like tortured constantly because again you just as are
and it's just like what the fuck, dude, Like it's

(57:19):
just so othering. And then like to that point as well,
Prague is almost entirely like all of the main characters
in this book, Like most of the main characters in
this book are Americans. It's just like it might as
well be in an American city. Yeah, And like you
have some like checks who exist like to sell him
tickets to tourist places. You have the Americans from the embassy,

(57:45):
the American CIA people, and then you have a couple
of bad checks who are from USCI, who are like
a persecuting these quote unquote high profile Americans, Like stop
saying high profile Americans you're driving?

Speaker 2 (58:01):
Does still exist?

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Kind of yeah, it's okay. Well, and they're like, oh,
we're gonna frame these high profile Americans because we unjustly
don't like Americans in our city and they're always getting
away with things. And I'm like, first of all, please
frame some Americans. They are always fucking getting away with things.
They behave very badly in progue, and I hate them,
and we.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
Behave badly everywhere. What the fuck are.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
And like, so all of the Czech men are like
the two named chech men in this book are described
as a spider and a thug, respectively.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
The one named chech woman is, of course a six
foot tall X model who's who is and I cannot
stress this enough fucking one of the Americans, you know,
because because.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
Show but I know, right.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Yeah right, So it's like it's and this this is
the fucking thing, right, So it's like it's it's like
the like and literally like the the character that she's
fucking is like, oh, he's like a he learned fluent
check because his O pair was from Bruneau. And I'm like,
get out of my face, I fucking hate you.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
And then you know the city where all the pairs.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Like like no, no, and it's like and it's like,
oh and her and his parents like uh, his parents
encouraged her to always speak check with him, and I'm like,
no the fuck they wouldn't like, no one, no one's
gonna be like, please teach my child this minority language,
right like and then he's like, oh, and he decided
to move to Prague, an exotic city full of beautiful women,

(59:41):
and I'm like.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
Fuck you it. It just sounds like he has a
thing for his pair like exactly, and I'm just.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
Like it's so fucking annoying, right because it's just like, yeah,
like we're just these like formless sex objects. He can't
even like a fucking get check names, right. Uh So
like for example that like the the a check in question,
the Czech woman, her name is Donna Fine, Donna don
yik A, Donna don Yikova. I think you'll find Donna

(01:00:09):
don Yikova like what we do with the check last
names is like you throw a va on the end
if you're a woman. So it's like the fact that
I like my name is not Yamagova because like, you know,
Americans will let you do that. It's like a thing
that makes me stand out there a lot where everyone's
like like, how the fuck is your name Yanga? Like
that's really weird, Like it should be Yana go Ba

(01:00:30):
and it's like her, that can't be her name, dude,
like just the bare fucking minimum research please like into
like what our fucking names are like, but you know,
he does like all these like fucking mysterious things, like
talking about like the Americans saving Prague and all this stuff,
and I'm like, get the fuck out face with your
like white nighting bullshit, like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Did the when like they didn't save the Americans didn't frog.
In fact, the Americans pointedly did not save Prague on
a couple of occasions.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
When like it's like NATO apologia, it's I mean, yeah,
it's gonna be like like what are we talking about here,
Like like you know, are are you say?

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Like because the Soviet Union fell? Is that when they
saved Progue? So yeah, like every Eastern European city owes
an eternal debt to them.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Basically basically, and they're like, oh yeah, they've taken over.
Like this there's a big former like bomb shelter, like oh,
oh my god. And like this is the other thing.
It's like there's these like there are like these known
landmarks and it's like, you know, one of them is
like the crucifix bastion, which is like up on a hillside.
It's like this is where like the doctor who's killed
has her lab.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Yeah, like what the.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Fuck are you talking about? Like this doctor Frankenstein shit.
And then like also the shady CIA adjacent organization she
works for is like building their secret lab underground under
like this big old Soviet era bomb shelter, and it's
like like the entire thing is just like again, so insulting.

(01:02:06):
It's so Wikipedia like all the references to it, and
it drives me insane and I hate it. I'm and
it's just like why are we doing any of this?
I guess, And like it's it's very strange because like
the CIA are both like the antagonists and the good guys,

(01:02:32):
which is where it's all like the only thing that
can stop a bad CIA agent is a good CIA
agent or show like at at the end there are
like positive references to like I shit you not like Kissinger.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Quotes fantastic yeah and fantastic what I must know what
is the big like what is the big mystery? That
is what what is the mcguffin or the big thing
that he had that Langdon has to piece together that
points at the CIA slash.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Yeah, okay, So there's like I don't know the thing
about the chick dressed up like the dream and then
he thinks that there's going to be a bomb threat
and then there isn't and they never explain why they've
done this, right, so they're like that's that's where it starts.
And then basically like his girlfriend's book then gets hacked
out of like the Penguin random House system and all

(01:03:33):
the files are destroyed and they're trying to protect the book.
And his girlfriend is a no edist, so she works
on like the conception of reality, and she is attempting
to argue that consciousness is collective, that it doesn't originate

(01:03:54):
inside the brain, but like things come like like that
consciousness exists out in the ether and that our brains
like sort it and the CIA and then it's like
part of this she was talking about how in the

(01:04:15):
future maybe we would be able to like create false
synaps is in the brain and that these could be
used to stop Gabba from kicking in in our brains
and therefore, like we can experience everything all at once.
And the CIA has found a way of creating filaments

(01:04:35):
that will like make that possible, and they want to
stop that's what they're doing in the secret lab and
they're doing experiments on the Russian woman's brain with that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
But why.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
I unclear, because because the next the next uh, the
next battlefield against like Russia question mark is going to
be like people's brains I guess like it is. It
is super unclear.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
So we want you to feel it all at once,
like okay, cool, yeah, now I felt it all at once?
What's next? Like that was it? That was all we
wanted it. So you ran this entire thing, this entire
fucking experiment for like I'm sorry, this entire fucking secret
operation like like kill people everything like that, and tortured

(01:05:28):
a woman for months or whatever, and it was all
to just be like yeah, okay, we did it, Like yeah,
basically because I mean, I'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
China is gonna do it if they don't, and I'm
like do what.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
Yeah, I'm not, I wouldn't do that. But even even
m k ultra thing, even in k ultra experiments, would
have like the added dimension of someone going like if
it didn't make any sense, someone would be like, yeah,
but I think it's kind of funny, like this doesn't
even have that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Basically, what they're saying is that it's like this is
like the new Stargate program and that like with with
this because because like consciousness can work in this way,
you could go spy on other people from anywhere in
the world.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
So fantastic. We don't we understand jackshit about our brains.
We do not understand how anesthesia works. We barely understand
like how dreaming functions, like these things that we have
known about for thousands upon thousands of years, and then
it's like, oh, yeah, you can you know, we can
unlock your brain's true potentially, bro. I wish we just

(01:06:38):
like I wish we could just conclusively map it and
figure out why like some like why some people have
issues that manifest is like ADHD and others have issues
that manifest is like, you know, bipolar disorder, and other
people are perfectly fine, Like like, can we do that? No,

(01:06:58):
we can make you expe experience everything all at once. Well,
thank fucking god, like the us, My lust for life
sated in one moment. Thank god.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Yeah, it's like the entire thing is just like laughably bad.
But I guess so I sent you pictures of this.
But I'm gonna subject our gentle listeners to my top two.
You have got the history wrong on this moments by
who I cannot stress enough. So we're we're meant to

(01:07:30):
understand that Catherine, the woman who's written the book, who
is like a professor, and Robert are like these intellectual
rock stars, like Catherine's been invited to Prague to give
a lecture in the Vladislav Hall of Prague Castle. Like no,
not not a fucking thing, right and in.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
And of course everybody knows Robert Langdon a symbologist. How
many symbologists do you know?

Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
I like, no, I mean, just get out of there.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
No, I mean generally, I'm sure you probably no one
or two. But like most people, I couldn't name a
fucking symbologist.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
And like, also, this is just not how like public
intellectualism works. No, but like, okay, so this comes from
Catherine's theoretical speech at the Castle, and I sent you
this shit. I'm so fucking angry. Similarly, she said, there
was a time when the suggestion of a round Earth
was laughable, scientific heresy even after all, if the Earth

(01:08:30):
were round, wouldn't the oceans flow off? Wouldn't many of
us be upside down? However, bit by bit we began
seeing phenomena that were inconsistent with that flat earth model.
The Earth's curved shadow in a lunar eclipse, ships departing
over the horizon, disappearing from bottom to top, and then
of course Magellan circumnavitaicating the glow. She smiled, Oops, time

(01:08:55):
for a new model, Like, bitch, when when did people
believe in a flat earth? When?

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
And it's the disc the disc shaped Earth of uh
of of Tolkien's similarily and that everyone everyone read that
was like, yeah, it's true.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
Yeah, So that's that's hers internationally renowned uh notices. Uh, okay,
here is Robert's number one. So there's a whole bunch
of stuff that like features around the Codex Giggess, the
Codex Giggess for those who don't know, is like the

(01:09:35):
world's largest medieval Bible and it's fucking large, and uh,
it's large, and it was like initially made and held
in Bohemia, but like the Swedes stole it and now
like the Swedes sometimes yeah, and you can see it
at the Jovna anyway, so like basically he's talking about

(01:09:59):
he teaches the code Giggus to his theoretical Harvard students
and like, you know, basically he's like, oh yeah, and
people say that like the devil mated or whatever, like
fucking stupid, right, and anyway, here here comes. He says
what he says, but whether or not you believe in
its divine origins, Langdon said, there are other significant mysteries

(01:10:19):
around this book. One of Kodex Gigis's most enigneged figtures
is the extraordinary quality of the calligraphy. More than a
dozen top handwriting experts have examined the codex over the
past century. Also, we're not handwriting experts, we're called palaeographers.
When we do this, there's a fucking word from us,
fuck you. And every specialist insists that the entire man

(01:10:40):
of script was written by a single hand alone. Scribe
Langdon waited for this to soak in, but his punchline
fell flat. Folks, he prompted. A book of this size,
length and complexity would have taken and estimated forty years
to complete. But there's one minor problem with the logic.
In the thirteenth century, life expectancy was approximately thirty years,

(01:11:03):
and it would have taken at least half of those
years to master the artistic skill exhibited in this calligraphy
and illustration serage. Or still, the specialists confirmed that the
penmanship isn't it's astonishingly consistent across the entire book. Famous
Harvard symbologists doesn't know how averages work, like.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
Folks, I love I love that he does that he
does my folks bit as a real like he's.

Speaker 1 (01:11:33):
Just like it's just like, it's like, why do you
have to write about the fucking Kodex gigess if you
don't fucking understand.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
The bigger question that I have here is in his mind?
Does he like because a literal reading of this would
be that it's impossible for humans to do this, because
you know, like he would have to train for a
while and then you know, like at most you'd have

(01:12:04):
like twenty like if you trained until you were twenty
and then like you would have maybe ten to at
most twenty years, Like does he literally believe that no
person like lived older than forty like apparently like forty
or fifty because.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
Like and it's like monks are the number one guys
who were making it to eighty five it out.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
Yeah, and he like and even if they didn't, like
the obvious thing would be like we all you know, like, hey,
I did most of this. I'm about to die because
I'm thirty seven and you know I'm hitting the old
I'm hitting the old age caps as handed down by God.
Will you please finish this in my honor? And he's like, yes,

(01:12:47):
I'll draw the coolest fucking devil motif that's ever existed.
And the guy was like what He's like, yeah, no problem,
I got it, man.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
Great, cool, great, Like he don't even get the fucking
average age, right, he's like thirty, and I'm like, it's
fucking thirty seven, but like grow up.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
Like it's like like it's being so wrong about it
and being so wrong about it in a way that
like compounds on top of itself because like, all right,
you want to get. Like you if you want to
like come up with a mythical explanation for something, that's fine,
like cool, do it like that? Like books, books, books

(01:13:21):
are made of these things. But like the mythical thing
is not that it it took forty years to make,
Like it's you know, the devil, Like the devil picture
is imbued with a certain special something and when you
look at the eyes, you know, it entrances you or something.
It's like no, like he's like, no, it's just that

(01:13:42):
no person could have ever possibly done this in a
lifetime like hmmmm, it's like okay, I.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Just it's again, it's just like a stupid person's idea
of a smart person, like oh my god, what a mystery?
How could it have been done? Like it's just just
shut the fuck up. And like, granted, I'm sure that
like maybe you know, like Catherine's meant to be a scientist,
maybe she's just stupid as shit and doesn't understand that
like we've always known that the world is round. But

(01:14:12):
if he's like a symbologist, he should understand basic history
and like how how it works.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
Right. It's ugh, yeah, I mean, like.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
Granted, those are the things that rubbed me the wrong way, right.
But it's like I can't stress how much this page,
this fucking book is six hundred and seventy five pages long.

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
I can't imagine, like, like, what the fuck is happening
to make this six hundred and seventy five pages? Like
this is such a threadbare plot. I do not understand.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
I will tell you what is happening. I think that
he's written it for commuters, because like almost every single
chapter is like last time in the Secret of Secrets,
and it just like recaps what just happened in the
last chapter again, and I'm like, uh, huh okay, like
like you don't need to say this again, we just

(01:15:06):
read it on the last page. And a lot of
these chapters are like five pages long. Like I'm good,
you know, Like I mean like it's not exactly the
sort of book where it's like damn, it's a real thinker.
I mean, I guess what I will say for him is, uh,
let's find something nice to say. He gets right into

(01:15:27):
the action, like like things do not stop happening. It's
like real smash mouth hours. It's like the year's stock
coming and they don't stop coming. It's just like things
are happening the entire fucking time, right, like.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
Please tell me, he writes, like some like terrible sex
scene or does it just cut out?

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
Like like you know, he kind of cuts out because
you know, a gentleman never tells or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
I wish he had done breasting Bob. Yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
There's like a lot of sexualizing the one check woman.
You get a lot of that, and it's like, you know,
a lot of like perving on her for being six
feet tall. Leave us alone again, Like I can't stress
how much you need to leave us alone.

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
So take your college volleyball fetish and get at it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:23):
Get the fuck out of my face. I'm tired of you.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
Just because I played college volleyball doesn't mean anything.

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
Damn.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
It was like.

Speaker 1 (01:16:34):
So there there is like a lot of just like
being awkwardly sexual at least like most of the people
that he's being awkwardly sexual to are like adult women,
and I will, I will give him that, and that
is refreshing. I suppose. It's just it's so.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
Garbage, like oh man, fantastic, fantastic, Like uh do you
does this? Is this book so bad that it impues
your personal ideas about Prague, Like you think about prog
now and you're like a little cringe. Maybe, well yeah,

(01:17:15):
like I.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
Mean I don't like, I don't want people like this
like a wax and raxotic about the magic of you know,
my favorite place in the world. I'm like, get out,
Like it's not like, don't I don't like the romanticization
of like what is fundamentally like a modern city that
you should like be respectful of, right, and like it's

(01:17:40):
so now I'm like about it. It's not magical. It's
not magical actually, like.

Speaker 2 (01:17:44):
People they talk about it, like people talk about like
like like Beijing and like the in the eighteenth century,
like in the hark like deepest darkest Czech Republic.

Speaker 1 (01:17:57):
It's like ooh in far Off Cafe, you know, things
like that. Yeah, it's one hundred percent like that. And
you know, not as though it is like one of
the most visited places in the entire world, right.

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
It's it's a it's a it's a center of art
and culture and history, like one of like one of
like the most historically relevant places, uh for for a
ton of reasons. Then he and he's treating it like
it's some like backwater town that just came out from
behind the Iron Curtain in eighty nine or what, like, Oh, I.

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
Don't know if you've heard of a little place called Prague.

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
Like, bro, I've not only heard of Prague, I've heard
of Burnout. So you're gonna have to get a bit
more obscure with it if you, you know, and if
you go beyond the two largest cities.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
To find out right, it's like, you know, it would
be one thing if you if you'd like set this
whole thing in all about so I'd be like, okay,
like go off king you know, but whatever, Like.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
Yeah, you could you can talk, Yeah, you could talk
about those places. It's like mysterious because no one knows,
like I don't know where the fuck that place, Like
I don't know where that is, like you know, and
you could be like it's nestled like in the mountains
behind this like you're like okay, cool. Yeah, Like we
got like a real like uh a real beautiful setting.
But yeah, dollar Store in Umberto Echo.

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
Just I want you guys to all know, I'm going
to throw this book away. I'm going to recycle it.
I do not want anyone else reading this book. It
was like when I was reading this book. I was
like before I got the fucking flu, and I was
reading it like I was going to go over to
Justine's and I was like, oh, I guess I can

(01:19:41):
take it and read it on the train. And then
I was like, I'm not reading this in public.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
Like the whole time, yeah, exactly, the whole time you're
you actually on the train. You've set up like an
entire like like a whiteboard presentation, and like every time
you read a intence, you just have a long wooden
pointer and you slap the thing. You're like and and on.

(01:20:05):
It is like Middle Ages does not equal dark Age,
like you know, like the world does not equal flat
and you're just like tapping it just.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
Like right, Okay, So when when I went to go see,
uh do who who remembers the film Moonlight?

Speaker 2 (01:20:20):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
But I want to go see I want to go
see Moonlight at the cinema when it came out and
shout out the Peck Complex really awesome place to go,
you know, like we've got like one of those places
where it's like a fiver.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
A go it's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
And there was this guy there who needed us all
to know that he was really unhappy that this was
a gay movie.

Speaker 2 (01:20:46):
Famously gay. It's advertised as gay.

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
Bro Like when he was whenever there was like a
gay scene, he would go what the fuck, like really
loud and like that. That would be like me reading
this book.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
Everybody like like, at this tearful, beautiful portrayal of of
of love between two you know, and love it doesn't
matter if it's between two people of the same sex.
It's beautiful and like, you know, these two people are
like kissing or like embracing tenderly. He's like boom, basically.

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
Basically like but anyway, that's that's me in this book,
except that it isn't beautiful. It's just really insulting, Like
it's just it's like incredibly xenophobic.

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
Please don't people from normal people from Russia are just
like normal people from everywhere else. Please do not give
in to any of that bullshit. Like please, I understand
the country of Russia has done bad things to the
to Ukraine places, but like normal people from Russia are
just like, yeah, you know, I go to work. Yeah,

(01:21:55):
like I go to work, I have to do my thing,
you know, Like yeah, like I don't do to people
from like Eastern Europe, Like yeah, it's like, I mean, okay,
you like tall women. A lot of people like tall, like.

Speaker 1 (01:22:11):
Like we're not like we're not just like empty vessels,
you know, sitting around waiting for fucking Americans to show
up and dick us right, like please leave us alone.

Speaker 2 (01:22:22):
Are check women notoriously tall or is that just I
guess like a slavic type thing. I mean, I realize
you're very tall, but like not, I mean like.

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
It's we're taller than average. I would say that. I mean,
we're not the Dutch who.

Speaker 2 (01:22:36):
Are like you're not Swedish three yeah, like you know,
it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
The Dutch are the tallest in Europe, like we're we're
on We're on the list, okay. But but also like
we kind of come in two types. We also make
them small, right, It's sort of like, you know, you
can also be like quite petite in Check.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
So yeah, yeah that's I I un ironically am sorry
that this book objectified you and and people like you
and like people generally like this is uh anyway, don't
read this book. Do not read this book under any

(01:23:18):
search unless you unless you're forced to buy, like work,
you have to review it for something I don't don't
read the book. This is terrible, but uh yeah that
I guess that's gonna do it for today. Like there's
I don't even there's there's nothing. Go listen to our

(01:23:41):
series on the Name of the Rods, Like just go
read the name READO calls Pendulum. Go read the terrible
uh medieval book that he wrote later on the name
of which I forget. I just go read, go read
on fashions, just go read.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
Just don't.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
You don't need to pay attention to Yeah, like I
don't know. Yeah, anyway, uh eleanor uh you know, saw
all this about about Prague and everything and wanted to
read it so we could talk.

Speaker 1 (01:24:11):
Okay, I want to make it clear that I didn't
want to read it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:14):
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, you you were, you were.
You were rage baited into reading it by Damn Brown
and he succeeded. But yeah, next uh next what is
next week? Next week, well, we'll have an interview on

(01:24:35):
our main episode, but later this week, as I said,
we will do Kingdom of Heaven Extended Edition will be
out on Friday for patrons. Uh yeah, it's a lot
of fun. And then I think we'll talk about it later. Yeah, anyway,
there'd be an interview next week. But yeah, I don't

(01:24:56):
Eleanor what what's going on? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:25:01):
The major thing I got going on is, if you
are in the United Kingdom and have access to sky History,
please watch this Witches of Essex show that I was in.
And then like on social media, I be like, wow,
I love the Witches of I love I love doctor

(01:25:23):
Eleanor Yaniga, and someone at sky History should commission shows
from her directly do me a favorite, say.

Speaker 2 (01:25:34):
Wow, wow, how cool? She's so cool. I really wish
you'd do more shows with her. But I'm not objectifying
her to be I want you like you're you're like,
you're like giving footnotes to it, Like, I want to
be clear. I think that her, she's a good historian.
I'm not saying I'm not saying that.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
I'm not saying that as a check woman, she's in tear.

Speaker 2 (01:26:00):
No, she's inherently a gollum. I'm not saying that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:04):
Like yeah, and then the other thing I guess is
that this week I will have a blog post out
because I finished writing it earlier today. Uh so do
go check that out as well. Otherwise, you know, go
check out how I was cyber believe people on besky
dot app.

Speaker 3 (01:26:23):
Do it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:24):
Yeah, go oh man, I'm not even getting into that ship.
You can find me Lucas Amazing, locked on Twitter, forced
against my will to be on Blue Sky, but whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:26:42):
Shaking us head the whole time.

Speaker 2 (01:26:45):
It's fine, It's fucking fine. Goddamn libs anyway, Yeah, you
can find me on those places. You can uh, you
can find my l show People's Sister of the Republic.
If you want to hear me talk about Star Wars,
you can find it where we're listening to this anyway,
that's gonna do it for us. Thank you very much,
and we'll see you next time.

Speaker 3 (01:27:06):
Bye.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
Ye won't even stop now,