April 22, 2025 • 45 mins
On this weeks episode of Where's Your Head At - we're so excited to welcome love & relationship coach Mimi Watt to talk us through all things love languages, attachment styles and communications in relationships. Mimi goes through what is the number 1 problem in relationships in 2025, what attachment styles gel well together (or are not meant to be) & how to better understand your love languages vs your partners. Stay tuned in the coming weeks for when Mimi answers your burning questions x
LISTEN TO THE SECURE LOVE CLUB PODCAST BY MIMI WATT
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Twice is the pattern three times? His character?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Oh I like that my job.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
That's like just throwing out.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
You take my job, Mart.
Speaker 4 (00:10):
Look, Where's your Head At?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Is a podcast that talks four things. Little hold on
a sec. Let's give this a refresh. Hi, I'm Anna.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
And I'm Matt, and we are now too newlywed not
to each other. Just a female and male best friend
here for the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Times and exploring adulthood, family relationships, dilemmas.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
And whatever else we have the mental capacity to deal with.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Come get the lowdown.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
This is your male and female perspective.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
So, Matt, where's your head at? Hello, and welcome. We
have a beautiful dating coach on the podcast today. Her
name is Mimi.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
What Hello, Hi, welcome to where's your Head Up?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
We're excited to have you. Yeah, where's your head at?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
My head at? My head my head up. My head's good,
my head feels very clear today. I'm very excited to
be here and just talk all things dating and relationships.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
We've just been picking Mimi's brain, being like what about this?
What about that? She specializes in attachment styles, so we
are going to get so deep into attachment styles. You
guys are going to be so well versed on all
things anxious, attachments, secure and all of the other ones.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Is there only the three or is there one more?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
There's actually four. There's just organized attachment. It's just less
spoken about.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I've never heard of that heard that one either.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, you're excited to get into it. You must get
all of the tea. Being a relationship coach, you know
lots of everyone's relationships. What would you say is the
most surprising thing that you've learnt about love and connection
that most people maybe wouldn't expect.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
It's such a good question. I think the thing that's
been most surprising for me on my own journey and
then seeing it come out in clients as well, is
that once you if you've been in a series of unhealthy,
your toxic relationships, and then you finally get into a secure,
healthy relationship. I used to think that that just means
it's all sunshine and rainbows and like you've met your
(02:26):
dream person and you have the happily ever after and
there's no more work. Like it's just what you see
in the Disney movies. And in Hollywood movies, and I
found that there's actually so much work that still needs
to be done when you're in those healthy relationships. It's
different sort of work. It's not as hard as the
toxic ones, but it's you know, there's still so much
(02:46):
that can come through that needs to be healed and
worked on. And I found that to be probably the
most surprising.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Yeah, we were talking before about how everyone should be
in therapy, right.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Match, Yeah, I agree, I think that, and you said
as well, you think relationships should be in therapy even
if they have nothing wrong with them. It's just good
to go to therapy.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, I think it's just about setting yourself up for success.
Like the more you can understand yourself and the more
you can understand one another, the better off you're going
to be when you come up against those inevitable roadblocks
down the line, because no relationship is perfect and you're
always going to come up against some sort of conflict
or issue. And I think if you understand each other
and also have the tools to learn how to navigate it,
(03:26):
like communication tools or you know, just understanding one another,
it just makes such a difference. So, yeah, it's sort
of like just prevention is better than cure.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
If there was one universal relationship rule that everyone should follow,
what would that rule be.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
H It's kind of a classic and a cheesy one,
but my answer would be to treat other people the
way you want to be treated. So with a lot
of my clients, they'll tell me about the type of
relationship they want, they have a partner that they want
to be with, and I always say that starts with you.
That starts with how your coming up in dating and relationships.
So for example, like let's say, in the dating world,
(04:04):
if you don't want to be ghosted by other people,
don't be someone who goes to other people. Like if
you want someone who's open with their communication, you need
to be that person first. So just that classic. It's
a cliche, but it worked.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I think communication is so big in relationships and being
able to communicate with your partner in a really healthy way, yeah,
is so imperative. How can we communicate better in our relationships?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Such a good one. I think with communication, the key
is seek to understand. Seek to understand one another because
when we are communicating with our partner, there can be
a lot of ego involved, and we just want to
be right, and we want to be heard that we
we can get so focused on that that we forget
(04:52):
about trying to actually understand where the other person is
coming from. And if we don't understand, then it's going
to cause so many issues in the relationship. So, like,
I'll give you an example. Let's say you've got a couple,
a guy and a girl, and the guy has a
habit of when they're out in public, always looking at
other women, like attractive women, and he's not doing it
(05:14):
in a pervy way. He's just you see someone hot,
you kind of look and he's just not aware of it.
The woman in the relationship has a history of being
cheated on, so she's got betrayal, her trust has been broken,
so it's a really it's sensitive for her when she
sees him doing that. If they didn't have a conversation
where she could he could understand why it was so
sensitive for her, they might end up in a pattern
(05:36):
of her just like giving him the cold shoulder, stonewalling him,
getting pissed off being cold, and he's like, what's wrong,
and she's, you know, kind of expecting him to be
able to read her mind, and then that would like, yeah,
and if he's saying, well, you're just being controlling, like
I'm not, I don't mean anything by it. I'm not
even doing anything right. So that's where we're just clashing
heads and we're not a team anymore. But if he
(05:58):
was able to go deeper, I'm like, can you tell
me why this bothers you so much? Like I want
to understand, And it created that safe space for her
to open up and say, Look, i was cheated on
in the past, and so I'm working to rebuild my
self esteem. And like, when I see you looking at
other women on the street, it doesn't it's hurting me.
It doesn't help me in this journey. And then you know,
(06:18):
communicating what you would need from him, And I guess
if you have an understanding, it just allows you to
like kind of drop your defenses and come around to
that other person have more empathy, like, oh, I didn't
know that you'd been through that. Therefore it makes sense
that you know it hurts you when I look at
other women. Thank you for telling me, Like, I'll be
more conscious of that.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
What would you say to someone then that doesn't want
to be vulnerable because they're scared of getting hurt but
they're going into a new relationship and to stop themselves
from getting hurt again, they have to be vulnerable.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, it's a bit of a cuts I think. Yeah. Look,
being vulnerable is never easy, but it is. It's a
prerequisite if you want a real, healthy relationship that has
depth to it. So I think it's about having to
be brave and take some steps to be vulnerable. But
(07:06):
it's also about who you're choosing to be vulnerable with, Like,
you get to choose who that person is, and if
you're dating someone who anytime you mention emotions or anything
about how you feel, if that other person gets weird
or shuts you down or tells you you're being too
emotional too much, you're not going to feel safe to
open up and be vulnerable, are you. So yeah, I
(07:27):
think you know being vulnerable. It's best when you are
with someone who makes you feel safe to be vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
I think that's a big part of it. Hold space
for you.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I like what you said before. When you argue and
it's about trying to be right with your partner. I
heard another analogy that if you win a real if
you win an argument, your relationship loses. Yeah, yes, you
should never win an argument with your partner.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Well because you guys are routine.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
But which is it?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah, okay, let's pivot to dating in twenty twenty five.
I think it's hard, right, It's so difficult, And I
have a lot of friends who are single and they
tell me some horror stories, and we all have our
horror stories. But I feel like twenty twenty five has
just that little bit of extra spice with people being
(08:16):
very disposable because of dating apps. What is the best
way to meet someone? Would you say?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I think, yeah, you're right, it's difficult these days because
there are so many options and with the dating apps, says,
I mean, you've got endless options in front of you.
I mean, is there a right way or a wrong way? Like,
is there a best way? I don't know. I think
I've personally had great experiences meeting people in real life
and also on the apps. Yes, So I think it's
just about so where your heads are you want to
(08:49):
start putting yourself out there to date. I think the
dating apps can be an amazing way to meet people,
Like we've heard lots of success stories of people on
the apps, but it's about the clearer you are on
what you're looking for and what your intentions are before
you even get yourself onto the apps, the better you're
going to set yourself up for success. So if you
are in your casual dating error, I don't want something serious,
(09:13):
be upfront about that on your dating profile and when
you're talking to people, or if you are looking for
a long term relationship, be upfront about that. I see
a lot of people they kind of tiptoe around that
because they think, oh, if I say I want a
long term relationship, people are going to be put off
by that and they're going to just but no, like
you need to.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Be well, if someone's put off by it, then they're
not the right person.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Well exactly, that's it.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah. Yeah, And like I always say, like, you don't
want someone to fall in love with this fake persona
that you're putting on to impress them, Like you want
someone to fall in love with you, but you know,
the first first date.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Like you're just sitting on the.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Go that far.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
But I mean, like, yeah, this is means two months
from now for dating? Is that too early to get
into that stage? Though? These days, I don't know how
long do people show that these days?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I think it varies and just depends on the person.
Like some people are just going to be have no shame,
like this is who I am and it's there. They're
just like unapologetic about it. And other people are going
to be more self I wonder how.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Long I was with my wife when I would get
up and still brush my teeth in the morning and
she'd do the same before we'd like kiss that. Yeah,
we don't do that anymore. When that's when that stopped.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
But it's it is cute, like when you look back
at those moments and you're like still trying to impress them,
like you like quickly get up and like put a
bit of like powder up.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Okay, So people are often scared of dating. I would say,
what do you think makes dating so scary for people?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Rejection? Yeah, yeah, fear of rejection.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I think in this day and age, people the rate
of comparison and self esteem issues has never been bigger
because of social media, and I think there is a
very real fear that a lot of people, especially they've
come across in my line of work, just have this
core belief that they're not good enough, and so putting
yourself out there in dating situations. I mean, it's a
(11:21):
sure fire way to be in the firing line for rejection.
And I think I think people the more they avoid dating,
the bigger that fear gets. And so i'd say it's rejection.
I'd also say it's probably a fear of like your
worst fear coming true. So people think that, you know,
it's so hard to meet anyone good, I'm not going
(11:42):
to meet anyone nice. I'm going to be single forever.
And if they're projecting that fear, and then they go
out and they have, you know, five dates that have
sucked or they've failed, it's almost the fear of proving
that to be true, and so they just kind of
I see a lot of people just not trying at
all because they're so scared.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah, I've seen that too.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
You coach them out of that?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
I do, ye, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
And how do you coach them that? For people listening,
if you're someone who's afraid to date, what can they do?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I think if you're afraid to date, I mean, first
of all, it's what do you what are you truly
afraid of? Because if we don't look at that like
under a microscope, often just it's just the anticipation and
the fear that feels so daunting that we just stop ourselves.
So it's like, what, really, what is the worst case?
You know, like you go on a date nothing evolves
(12:33):
from it, or you go on a date like the
worst maybe the worst cases you get stood up or
something I don't know, and looking at that, it's like, well, yeah,
that would be a ship but could you handle it,
Like do you reckon? You'd be okay, you'd come out
of that and likely it's like, yes, they would.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
And laugh about it's a good story.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
It's a good story.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, after a couple of months.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
You're saying all this stuff like I don't know, like
all that sort of stuff I just laugh about, Like
because imagine getting stood off. You'd be like it would hurt.
But imagine going and tell me.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
You'd be like you're a loser for standing Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
No, I would imagine me calling you and being like, hey,
I just stood off.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Like it's funny. But it's also like a little bit
of a like.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
I could in the ego, I can understand that, Yeah,
my ego is not that fragile.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
I always go into dating with this mindset that ninety
nine point nine percent of these dates aren't going to
work out, so I'm kind of doing it for the
story and for the plot.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yeah, And I think that mindset shift really helped me
with dating because I was horrendous going on a first date,
like I would have before my first date with my husband.
I had three shots of tequila because I'm so nervous,
like just downing them with like a little bit of
lemon in my apartment by myself, like freaking out, having
(13:52):
meltdowns like I don't want to go.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I can't relate to that, Like I would never get
nervous for a first date.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Really, you're like one in a million. Then, because I can't,
I don't really know anyone.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah. I think it's like one thing I do say
to people and I used to I try to use myself,
is just pretend you're going to meet a friend. Yeah,
like you're just you don't think of it as a date.
Just think of it as like you're just going to
get to know someone. Because if you think about when
you're going to meet a friend, the energy is so different,
like there's no expectation, there's no concern, You're just going
(14:23):
to be yourself. You're just going to be curious about
your friend, like what's been going on, how you're going
And that just creates such a more authentic vibe and
energy that I think helps you to get out of
your head and just into the present moment so that
you can actually see do we connect? Like how do
I feel around this person? Is there a vibe? So yeah,
just and you say like dropping the expectation.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
How do you get to the point where you think
to yourself like I'm a good data like I've I've
nailed this, I've got this. Is it something when you've
clocked it and you've got married? It's about getting married.
I think it's like like you you know you're actively
dating or like what's that mindset? What's going on within?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah? I think to be a good data I think
I really think dating is a skill. So, like anything
any skill, you're going to get better at it the
more you do it. You're going to get more confident
in speaking about yourself in asking questions. And I think
so experience is one thing like practicing just putting yourself
out there, you know, getting the reps in, but then
(15:26):
also really knowing yourself and knowing what your patterns are,
knowing what your history is. You just don't want to
be going in blind, like on autopilot. Right, So if
you are someone who's never stopped to reflect on your
past relationships or dating experiences, and majority of them have
had issues and they've been bad. If you don't stop
and reflect, you're highly likely to just continue that pattern
(15:51):
and attract more of the same people. So it's like
knowing what are your red flags you're looking out for,
what are your non negotiables, what are your green flags?
Are things that are positive for you? You just know
those things.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
It doesn't have to be super super super deep detail,
but just having a bit of an idea, but it's
going to help you be a better data.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Yeah, absolutely, I reckon. Yeah, I feel like there's been
lots of bad dates that I've been able to reflect on,
and I think by the end of like my dating
career shall we call it, I had like a list
of just like absolute nos. So like by the end
of dating, if someone did something that crossed my boundary,
(16:30):
I was like totally out, Like yeah, you just like
with your ex, I'm out, Whereas like at the start
of my dating career, I would be like, oh, but
it's okay, like we're not officially together and like that's fine,
or like they lied to me about something big, or
like you know, like what what am I going to
put up with? And what am I not? And I
guess that's where boundaries come in.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Well, if you let your boundaries slide early on with someone,
then they're going to be like, well, you know, I
can keep crossing boundaries.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, I keep getting away with it and getting.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Away with it, and you're not. You're already up to
a shit it anyway.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
So yeah, what would you say, are some red flags
that you shouldn't ignore when it comes to dating?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Okay, red flags you shouldn't ignore. The first one is
probably just compatibility. So depending on what you're looking for.
I see so many people they'll tell me they want
a relationship and then they meet someone who's like leaving
the country in two months or who has just broken
up with their X and like, yeah, but there's a
really good connection. Like stop.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Chemistry and connection doesn't equal compatibility.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
No. I don't know if it's because I'm pregnant, but
that like really just like so hard, Like say, like.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
You hit it off with someone, you've got good chemistry,
you're like haha, laughing. It doesn't mean you're compatible because
you don't.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Have the same values or you might have things that.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Don't align the one for me.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yeah, okay, so hopefully everyone else wasn't as slow as I.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Was chemistry because it doesn't you get.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
It a great point to bring in. Yeah, so the
compatibility piece of like are you if you're not on
the same page about where you're at in terms of
emotional availability or lifestyle factors all that. Don't ignore that
and just think that, oh no, but like it'll work
out and things will just magically fall into place. It's
maybe that will happen, but you know, yeah, there's a
(18:23):
high chance it won't. Or another red flag is just
if someone is really inconsistent and they're hot and cold
and they're saying one thing and they're doing another. So
if they're out of integrity and if you're noticing early
on that you're feeling a lot of anxiety because you're
not really sure what's going on, Like they're kind of
leaving you guessing a lot, major red flag, Like definitely.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Do you believe in if they wanted to they would statement.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I think to a large degree, if they wanted to
they would. Yes, Yeah, if you're genuinely interested in someone
and you want the connection to develop, like you're going
to make that happen. You're going you're not gonna tiptoe
around it. You know, it's going to be obvious. So yeah,
I think if there's a lot of excuses being made,
there's a lot of justification going on, that's a red flag.
(19:09):
It's like, well, if it's you know, a healthy relationship
should be fairly easy and straightforward as the connection is developing.
But yeah, like you said, Matt, sometimes there's going to
be things in life that are with out of our
control and they're going to get in the way, and
you can't always make things happen. Like life isn't so
black and white, and there's got to be consideration. And
(19:30):
I just think the biggest thing is if it's becoming
a pattern, it's happening over and over again that someone
is yeah, they're not showing up for you, they're making excuses,
and it's happening more than a few times.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
And twice is a pattern. Three times his character?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Oh I like that my job.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
That's like just throwing out.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
You take my job, Matt. Look, if you want.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
You have actually recently launched your own podcast, it's called
The Secure Love Club Congratulations, and you do a lot
of work in love languages and attachment styles. Do you
think that these are buzzwords or do you think that
there's actually some depth to knowing your attachment styles and
(20:25):
your love languages.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I think they definitely are very common now. People are
talking about this all over TikTok, all over Instagram. Attachment styles.
It is a bit of a buzzword thing, but there's
so much depth to it, and it's such an important
component of relationships and how the different dynamics we experience
in relationships and how things play out. So yeah, it's
(20:50):
in a bit of a buzzword phase, but very important work.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Okay, So the attachment styles go through them? Okay, Okay,
so you're the guest.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
There's so we have there's four attachment styles. Three are
more common commonly spoke about. So there's securely attached, which
is actually about fifty percent of the population. Then we
have the insecure attachment styles, so there's anxiously attached on
one end, and then avoidant attached on the other. And
then there's a fourth one called disorganized attachment, which is
(21:24):
a bit of a combination of anxious and avoidance, so
you're not like predominantly in one. You kind of flip
flop between the two quite intensely, but yet mostly the secure,
anxious and avoidant.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
You said the fifty secure.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Yeah, where the fuck are they married? Where the fuck
are whack it up?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah? Right? Would you mind sharing what you are?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah? Absolutely? I am securely attached previous anxiously attached girl and.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
You worked through that to get too secure? Do you
have a partner that helped you get there?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Or I did have a partner who helped me there?
So I started my journey of going from anxious to
secure in twenty twenty. So I went through quite a
significant breakup with a partner who was heavily avoidant. I
was heavily anxious, the dream combination, And once that relationship
broke down, I sort of looked back over all of
(22:18):
my past relationships and I just had this kind of
moment where I thought, why the fuck does this keep happening? Like,
why are relationship so hard? It shouldn't have to be
like this. And I would look around at other couples
who were happy and seemed to be in a healthy
relationship and that's when I kind of realized I'm the
common denominator here amongst all of these, so I need
to figure some shit.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Out great self awareness.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Yeah, thank you knowing that.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
So that's when I and my sister, actually my elder
sister had been getting me, telling me to read this
book called Attached by Emir Levine for a good couple
of years, and I kept pushing it away, pushing it
away because like, I don't need it, don't need it,
you know, I think you're not ready to you're ready
to actually confront this stuff. And went through this breakup
and she's like, read this damn book. It's like fine.
(23:04):
So I took it and just absolutely inhaled it. Like
it was as though for the first time in my life,
this blindfold was being lifted, and I finally understood myself
and why I attracted certain types of people in relationships,
why I was always so anxious, always feeling like I
was too much. And that's when the healing journey started.
So that's when I was just you know, delving into
(23:27):
the topic researching. I hired a coach of my own
to help me work through it, and did a lot
of work for about a year. I it was intentionally
single for a year to work on my relationship with myself. Great, yeah,
which I think is very important, And then ended up
attracting a beautiful guy, secure man and we got into
a relationship. And that sort of comes back to what
(23:49):
I said earlier about I was surprised at how much
should have needed to be worked through coming into a
secure relationship, because as those who are anxiously attachable, when
you're dating people who are avoidant or emotionally unavailable, there's
a lot of chaos. There's a lot of up and down.
It's very tumultuous. And when you get into a secure
(24:10):
with a secure partner, in that relationship, it's so stable
and predictable and they're just they're there, and for your
nervous system, when you're not wired for that stability, it's
very jarring and you almost want to create chaos where
there is none. I found myself wanting to do that,
like create fights or create drama out of nothing, because
(24:32):
I was like, is this what a healthy relationship is?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Like?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
It's boring almost, right, So there's an adjustment period with that.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah, So it sounds like having an anxious partner and
an avoidant partner is not what we want to have
in a relationship. But of course there's probably people out
there listening who are an avoidant and an anxious attachment person.
How can they strengthen their relationship If you.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Have someone who's anxious and avoidant and there's real love there,
but you're really struggling to understand each other, I would say,
if you want the relationship to work, you both have
to want to work at it. Yeah, So that means
understanding your history, right, because our attachment styles are predominantly
formed in our early childhood. So understanding what was your
(25:23):
relationship like with your parents? What was it when you
were emotional and like you said, you had that bid
for connection with your parent or you tried to express it.
Were they there for you consistently? Did they shut you down?
Did you your parents go through a divorce? Like, all
of these things are contributing to how you're showing up
in your romantic relationships as an adult. So the better
(25:44):
you can understand that as individuals, the more you're going
to be able to understand what's going on for the
other person and you can work with each other to
try to become more secure in the relationship.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
In some ways is an anxious and an anxious attachment
to get good because then they're just yeah, I don't
know if i'd say each other, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
No, not commonly no, no, the yeah, an anxious and
anxious might just be really codependent.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, yeah, okay, I can say that. Yeah, that's what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Connect.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
That's not good to be codependent on your partner.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
That's you want to be more like interdependent. So you
want to be It means that you are happy and
comfortable being independent so you can live your life outside
of the relationship. You have friends, Like, you're happy doing
your own thing, but you're also comfortable leaning on your
partner for support and also giving your partner support. So
you understand it's natural for you to to want to
(26:44):
lean on one another and that doesn't scare you away
or anything. It's fine. But if your partner wants to
go out for the night with their friends, you're like,
no worries, Like, you're happy doing your.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Thing, so like a healthy version of that. You want
to we want to keep it healthy. What about avoidant
and avoidant do they ever get together?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yes, they can.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Their arguments. Just imagine the rug would be like this
because they swept everything under the ru.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Well, exactly. Yeah, the problem. The problem with those relationships
is that there's really not a lot of communication going
on about what they're feeling. And I think people who
are avoidant can really struggle to even identify what they're
feeling because they're so used to pushing their emotions down
and suppressing them because they don't know how to actually
manage their emotions when they come up. So if you
have two people who are doing that, it might seem
(27:35):
like on paper, on surface level, that things are fine,
things are chill, because there's not really any arguments going on.
But what would happen over time is I think both
people in that relationship would feel very isolated. Most likely
they're just really comfortable in that dynamic and they just
want to stay like that.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Imagine a relationship with two secure people.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
What does that look like?
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah, what does that look like?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
That looks like two people who know themselves, two people
who want the relationship to work, who are comfortable holding
space for each other's emotions, who are in integrity, so
they say they do what they say they're going to do.
They hold space for their partner. So if their partner
(28:22):
is experiencing something. They're feeling anxious, they're feeling upset. It's
you know, yet, like we said earlier, they're not put
off by that. They're able to just be there for
their partner and give them support and just understand what
they're going through. And you work together as a team,
like you know that when you're vulnerable together, it actually
makes you stronger, it doesn't push you apart.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Before we move on, we need to touch on disorganized because
I've never heard of the disorganized attachment style. Can you
take us through what that means?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah? So I guess if we look at anxious and
avoidant for context, So someone who's anxiously attached in a
relationship is typically seeking a lot of external validation. They
need a lot of reassurance in the relationship that everything's okay,
and that's their coping mechanism, so they'll turn to their
partner to sue their anxieties. Someone who's avoidant needs the opposite.
(29:14):
So when they're stressed or there's conflict going on, they
typically want space and they push away like I just
need to deal with this on my own, Give me space.
Someone who's disorganized is going to be a sort of
erratic blend of the two. So there's an argument, there's conflict,
and the disorganized attachment person sort of doesn't know what
they want, Like they might try to get really close
and then all of a sudden they're like no, no, no,
(29:36):
and they push away and they stone wall their partner
and then they come crawling back really quickly. So they're
sort of all over the place and very disregulated. And Yeah, what.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Would form someone to do that? What traumas or how
would their primary caretaker have done that to them? What
sort of triggers.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
That Typically it's people who have this attachment style have
been through a very traumatic childhood. Yeah, so if we
talk about things like big T trauma, so that's when
there might have been physical or emotional abuse in the family,
are really really difficult divorce, being abandoned, so just being
left by your parents really big T trauma. Things like
(30:13):
that would probably cause it.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Okay, let's talk a little bit about love languages. What
are the love languages?
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Love languages we have physical touch, words of affirmation, acts
of service quality type yes, yes?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
And do we need to have the same love languages
as our partner? Could this be a deal breaker? In relationships,
talk us through that.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
You don't have to have the same ones. I think
it's helpful if you do, right, because if you have
someone who let's say you have one person in the relationship,
they experience love through words of affirmation and then their
partner the way they express love is through gift giving,
right that, And I can give you as many gifts
(31:02):
as you would ever dream of. But because that's not
your love language. The way you receive love, it doesn't
mean anything to.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
You receive it and give it in two different ways.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Can you receive it and give it in two different ways?
Speaker 1 (31:15):
So, like I receive love through affection and words of validation,
but I give it through physical touch and quality time.
But I guess I feel that's how.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
I feel personally about your experience, and I feel like
I'll take it through physical touch as well.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I'll take it through.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
No, I mean I'll take them all.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
No, I'm not. I'm not big on gift giving both ways.
I get uncomfortable getting gifts, and I don't really enjoy
giving gifts. Like I feel uncomfortable as well. I'm like, like,
do you like it? Don't give flowers or notes or
something like that. But am I going to go out
of my way to get like a gift like partners
that you know buy me like stuff and I'm just
like like five and doll stuff and I'm just like.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I don't know now, Yeah, yeah, I think in my experience,
how you receive love is probably mostly how you'd give it, right,
because you're kind of giving like what you maybe hope
to get back. But I think it varies. The most
important thing is understanding how your partner receives love. So
if you know that they feel the most love from
(32:20):
you when you tell them how you feel, rather than
just showing them through acts, then that's an opportunity for
you to Okay, I know that means a lot to her.
I know that means a lot to him, So I
can make a conscious effort to do that so that
they feel loved. Yeah, right, So it's just understanding your
partner and what they need.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
You love, acts of service.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
I think I love them all. I think I'm the.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
All touch acts, gifts, gifts.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Physically I think like it, Like you know, like gifts
for like a special occasion is how I would receive love.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Would accent service and gifts? I don't, I don't.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I'm with you. I would rather my loved ones or
to give me, like a really heartfelt card words to me.
I'm like, give me that any day over a random present,
and that's how I give it. So I despise buying
gifts of people for their birthdays because I just I
hate doing it. I enjoy it what to get people.
But I will write you the nicest card. You'll be
(33:17):
in tears just.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
The same thing. Yeah, I mean, if I seek something
that I clearly know they want, I'll get it.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
But like, imagine someone you're in bed on a Saturday
morning and then your partner goes out and gets your
fresh coffee.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Service. Everyone loves that.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
I love that. That's like hitting the spot.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
From I think I'd appreciate it. I'd really appreciate it,
like how good is the coffee?
Speaker 3 (33:47):
But like, so you do like service?
Speaker 1 (33:49):
No, No, I wouldn't be like, oh my god. I
would have been, oh my god, they're in love with me.
Like say, for instance, we rocked up to the studio
and you guys had me a coffee. I would have
be like, oh, they're the coin, Like.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Thanks, So what would make you feel? Like? Really thought of.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Physical physical touch probably as well as words, but just
quality time, knowing like I like to hang out quality
and just to hang out quality time.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Being in the same space together.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
I've heard. So obviously, if we have all of our
preferences and then because they're our preferences, we kind of
do that in return to our partner. But if we
don't know them well, like, for instance, Matt would not
find getting a coffee potentially like you like it, but.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
It's not your for instance, be my partner will go
to one of us will go to the gym in
the morning, and the otherum will bring a coffee back
to the other person. But to me, that's just not
an active So.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
That's just Yeah, So what I'm saying is is I
think that I've I saw something that said that people
go wrong in relationships when they give someone what they
want as opposed to knowing what your partner needs or wants.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, definitely, because yeah, like we said before, if you're
if you like I love buying gifts of people, like
I'm just going to shower my partner with gifts because
it makes me feel so good And if I buy
you gifts, it means I love you, right, And so
you're doing that you have the best of intentions. But again,
if your partner, if what really means the most of
(35:17):
them is hearing you say how much they mean to you,
like hearing you say how much they love you. Then
the gift giving it might be like, oh, that's really nice,
but it's not like it's not giving.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, let's pivot back to relationships.
We hear the word I was in a toxic relationship
very often, specifically in modern day dating. Do you think
that relationships are getting worse or are we just getting
more switched on and klue about what we want to
(35:51):
accept and what we.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Don't setting our standards higher boundaries.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
I would say almost yes and no. I think on
the one hand, we are getting we are more aware,
and it's less taboo to talk about our emotional experiences
in relationships these days. So you know, in the past,
you know, for our parents and generations before them, it
was very common to not talk about your emotions, and
(36:20):
you know, you just if you get sad, you like,
come on, just get on with it, like let's get
on with the day, and you suppress your emotions, and
that was sort of the norm. So I would say
there was probably a lot of toxic relationships or unhealthy
dynamics in the past. It just wasn't spoken about. Yeah,
So that's on the one hand, But on the other
I do think that, like we mentioned earlier, with the
(36:43):
with dating apps and with social media, and with the
perceived amount of availability or what you can have in
a person, I think there's a lot of sort of
disposing of people. As soon as you experience one thing
you don't like, or there's one thing that makes you uncomfortable,
it's like, oh, well, onto the next you mustn't be
for me. So there's a lack of perseverance in getting
to know the person and building the found like a
(37:04):
strong foundation.
Speaker 5 (37:05):
That makes sense, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Do you think that people stay in toxic relationships longer
than they should?
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Mostly?
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Yes, And how can they not do that?
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Well, it's it's the nature of a toxic relationship is
what makes you stay. So when we're in there's a
relationship where let's say there's a highly anxious, highly avoidant,
we could say that's toxic, and what's actually going on
is there's a real like chemical addiction that's happening in
the body. So for someone who's anxious when there's a conflict,
(37:45):
you'll get this spike in cortisols. It's like the stress
hormone and adrenaline in your body. You're freaking out, Your
nervous system is all over the place, and you are
so desperate to get that person's connection to come back
to you and to get their love. When you finally
do get it, you get this huge flood of dopamine
and oxytosein like the love hormone. So that spiral like
(38:09):
that's up and down is really addictive. It's been said
to be the same as like a heroin addiction, like
really high highs, really low lows. So it's not that
people are just weak or have like not enough willpower
to leave a toxic relationship. It's like you're literally addicted
to the cycle. So yeah, a lot of people stay
(38:29):
in them longer than they should. But I think it's
because they just they don't know any better. Yeah, they
just think that this is what relationships are, this is
what's normal. Like I can figure it out, and there's
a thing called forget the term. But it's like when
you are let's say, as a child, your parents were
very emotionally unavailable, so you never knew, like if they
(38:51):
were going to be there for you when you needed
them to emotionally. And so as an adult, you have
this subconscious drive to want to like win the game,
to almost master it. So you keep attracting people who
are emotionally unavailable because you think, if I just try
hard enough, if I just do enough, I'll crack it
and I'll win them over. So there's this, Yeah, a
lot of it is driven subconsciously.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Yeah, Okay, speaking of toxic relationships, we need to touch
on setting boundaries. I feel like as a society we
have gotten so much better at setting boundaries in workspaces
with friends, but I feel like in relationships sometimes people
still really struggle. Why do you think that is.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
The biggest reason is that you there's a fear of abandonment.
So you think if I set a boundary, it's just
going to push my partner away and I'm going to
lose love. So you don't set boundaries. You just let
people take whatever they want from you, cross your boundaries.
Because Yeah, I think for a lot of people, the
fear of losing their partner just outweighs the desire to
(39:54):
create like a healthy, respectful relationship.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Yeah, but then I guess would we say to those
peop people, if you don't set the boundaries early on,
then you're not with someone who respects and cares about you.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah. Yes, And I think it comes with really learning
how to set boundaries in your life, even before a
relationship or outside a relationship. Yeah, and with yourself. I
always say that you teach people how to treat you
by the way you treat yourself. So if you uphold
boundaries that protect your time, protect your energy, and you
(40:27):
really maintain them, then people are naturally going to see
that in you. They're going to say, Okay, this is
someone who takes herself seriously, who doesn't fuck around, So
I need to make sure i'm like rising to meet
that I need to respect her boundaries. So a boundary,
instead of looking at as looking at it as something
that pushes people away, you're actually if you set boundaries
(40:47):
to the people, it's sort of an act of love
because you're telling people I care about you, I want
you in my life. So if you want to be
in my life, this is how to do it, Like
this is how to love me, this is how to
be around me. As long as you protect these like
we're good, and I'm going to give you the best
of me because my energy and time are going to
be protected.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Yeah. Absolutely. Let's just say you're in a relationship and
you haven't set good boundaries and you realize, maybe a
little bit too late, that fuck, I need to actually
start setting boundaries and following through with them. Can you
still do that or does it need to happen from
the start.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
No, I'd say it's never too late. Okay, it's never
too late to set a boundary. Yeah. And as something
that is very common that can happen is when you
start setting boundaries, you'll notice some people in your life
will really hate it because they might lose certain access
to you. They can't just have you at their disposal
whenever they want. And if there's a big uproar when
you do set a boundary, it's probably a sign that
(41:46):
it was really needed. Yeah, So it's not too late,
you know. I think no one's perfect and it can
take time to realize like, oh, I'm actually feeling really
fucking depleted in this relationship. Why It's because I don't
have boundaries here, here, and here. So you know, hopefully
you're with someone who is open to always open to
growing in the relationship, and it's just about having that conversation,
(42:09):
setting the boundary, and then the biggest part is following
through and maintaining it. Like you said earlier, Matt, if
you don't maintain the boundary, people will see that and
they will test you whether it's weakness. Yeah, And a
lot of the time it's not that it's malicious or
it's intentional. It's just that people will naturally want to
be selfish and get what they can from someone that
(42:30):
they love. So if you're letting people across your boundaries, like,
that's on you as well.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Yeah. Absolutely, Obviously. I know that a lot of people
fall into the people pleaser category and you don't want
to put boundaries down even with friends, because you feel
like you could come across as rude or cold. What
would you say to those people, I.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Would say that if you're you know, the most important
relationship you have is the one you have with yourself.
And if you are overgiving just to make everyone else happy,
like you only have so much energy you can give
and you're going to reach a point of burnout, you're
not going to be happy. Yeah, So if you can
(43:12):
take care of yourself, like that's when you get to
give people the best of you, not the rest of you.
You're not just pouring from an empty cup. So don't
be afraid to take care of yourself and set boundaries.
And it's a great way to find out who your
real people are, like the friends of your real friends,
and also in a romantic relationship, because people who truly
love you and want to be around you will respect
(43:34):
your boundaries. Yeah, so I.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Couldn't agree more for it. Should we finish with a
thumb one?
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Yeah? What is the most ridiculous piece of dating advice
or a relationship advice that you've been given or received
that works? Yeah, but we don't want to give people
stuff that doesn't work.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
You could say dates.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Actually you said this earlier and one time, so years ago,
when I was very anxious on dates, a friend of
mine said, you just need to show up like you're
the prize. And at first was like, what do you mean?
Like that sounds so conceited. I don't want to walk
in there thinking I'm like hot shit, I don't want
to you know, have this huge ego, And she's like, no,
it's not about that, It's just about flipping your focus
(44:20):
when you're on the dates. So rather than going in
and being really self conscious wondering like am I good
enough for this person? They like me? And my pretty enough?
Am my interesting enough? Whatever? To flip the focus and
ending like you're the prize so that you can look
at this person and say, well, are they good enough
for me?
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Yeah, that's what we say on that Yes, are they.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Aligned with what I want? You know, do they have
the qualities I'm looking for? And it's not to say
that you're better than anyone, it's just to you know,
you're the prize, like boost your esteem a little bit
and just see if other people are good enough for you,
And it definitely works.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Mamie, thank you so much. This has been amazing. We've
learned so much. I hope this has been super helpful
for you guys, and make sure you go check out
Mami's podcast and next time.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Bye bye, thank you, thank you for coming.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
One mm hmm
Twice is the pattern three times? His character?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Oh I like that my job.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
That's like just throwing out.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
You take my job, Mart.
Speaker 4 (00:10):
Look, Where's your Head At?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Is a podcast that talks four things. Little hold on
a sec. Let's give this a refresh. Hi, I'm Anna.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
And I'm Matt, and we are now too newlywed not
to each other. Just a female and male best friend
here for the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Times and exploring adulthood, family relationships, dilemmas.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
And whatever else we have the mental capacity to deal with.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Come get the lowdown.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
This is your male and female perspective.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
So, Matt, where's your head at? Hello, and welcome. We
have a beautiful dating coach on the podcast today. Her
name is Mimi.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
What Hello, Hi, welcome to where's your Head Up?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
We're excited to have you. Yeah, where's your head at?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
My head at? My head my head up. My head's good,
my head feels very clear today. I'm very excited to
be here and just talk all things dating and relationships.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
We've just been picking Mimi's brain, being like what about this?
What about that? She specializes in attachment styles, so we
are going to get so deep into attachment styles. You
guys are going to be so well versed on all
things anxious, attachments, secure and all of the other ones.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Is there only the three or is there one more?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
There's actually four. There's just organized attachment. It's just less
spoken about.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I've never heard of that heard that one either.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, you're excited to get into it. You must get
all of the tea. Being a relationship coach, you know
lots of everyone's relationships. What would you say is the
most surprising thing that you've learnt about love and connection
that most people maybe wouldn't expect.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
It's such a good question. I think the thing that's
been most surprising for me on my own journey and
then seeing it come out in clients as well, is
that once you if you've been in a series of unhealthy,
your toxic relationships, and then you finally get into a secure,
healthy relationship. I used to think that that just means
it's all sunshine and rainbows and like you've met your
(02:26):
dream person and you have the happily ever after and
there's no more work. Like it's just what you see
in the Disney movies. And in Hollywood movies, and I
found that there's actually so much work that still needs
to be done when you're in those healthy relationships. It's
different sort of work. It's not as hard as the
toxic ones, but it's you know, there's still so much
(02:46):
that can come through that needs to be healed and
worked on. And I found that to be probably the
most surprising.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Yeah, we were talking before about how everyone should be
in therapy, right.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Match, Yeah, I agree, I think that, and you said
as well, you think relationships should be in therapy even
if they have nothing wrong with them. It's just good
to go to therapy.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, I think it's just about setting yourself up for success.
Like the more you can understand yourself and the more
you can understand one another, the better off you're going
to be when you come up against those inevitable roadblocks
down the line, because no relationship is perfect and you're
always going to come up against some sort of conflict
or issue. And I think if you understand each other
and also have the tools to learn how to navigate it,
(03:26):
like communication tools or you know, just understanding one another,
it just makes such a difference. So, yeah, it's sort
of like just prevention is better than cure.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
If there was one universal relationship rule that everyone should follow,
what would that rule be.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
H It's kind of a classic and a cheesy one,
but my answer would be to treat other people the
way you want to be treated. So with a lot
of my clients, they'll tell me about the type of
relationship they want, they have a partner that they want
to be with, and I always say that starts with you.
That starts with how your coming up in dating and relationships.
So for example, like let's say, in the dating world,
(04:04):
if you don't want to be ghosted by other people,
don't be someone who goes to other people. Like if
you want someone who's open with their communication, you need
to be that person first. So just that classic. It's
a cliche, but it worked.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I think communication is so big in relationships and being
able to communicate with your partner in a really healthy way, yeah,
is so imperative. How can we communicate better in our relationships?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Such a good one. I think with communication, the key
is seek to understand. Seek to understand one another because
when we are communicating with our partner, there can be
a lot of ego involved, and we just want to
be right, and we want to be heard that we
we can get so focused on that that we forget
(04:52):
about trying to actually understand where the other person is
coming from. And if we don't understand, then it's going
to cause so many issues in the relationship. So, like,
I'll give you an example. Let's say you've got a couple,
a guy and a girl, and the guy has a
habit of when they're out in public, always looking at
other women, like attractive women, and he's not doing it
(05:14):
in a pervy way. He's just you see someone hot,
you kind of look and he's just not aware of it.
The woman in the relationship has a history of being
cheated on, so she's got betrayal, her trust has been broken,
so it's a really it's sensitive for her when she
sees him doing that. If they didn't have a conversation
where she could he could understand why it was so
sensitive for her, they might end up in a pattern
(05:36):
of her just like giving him the cold shoulder, stonewalling him,
getting pissed off being cold, and he's like, what's wrong,
and she's, you know, kind of expecting him to be
able to read her mind, and then that would like, yeah,
and if he's saying, well, you're just being controlling, like
I'm not, I don't mean anything by it. I'm not
even doing anything right. So that's where we're just clashing
heads and we're not a team anymore. But if he
(05:58):
was able to go deeper, I'm like, can you tell
me why this bothers you so much? Like I want
to understand, And it created that safe space for her
to open up and say, Look, i was cheated on
in the past, and so I'm working to rebuild my
self esteem. And like, when I see you looking at
other women on the street, it doesn't it's hurting me.
It doesn't help me in this journey. And then you know,
(06:18):
communicating what you would need from him, And I guess
if you have an understanding, it just allows you to
like kind of drop your defenses and come around to
that other person have more empathy, like, oh, I didn't
know that you'd been through that. Therefore it makes sense
that you know it hurts you when I look at
other women. Thank you for telling me, Like, I'll be
more conscious of that.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
What would you say to someone then that doesn't want
to be vulnerable because they're scared of getting hurt but
they're going into a new relationship and to stop themselves
from getting hurt again, they have to be vulnerable.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, it's a bit of a cuts I think. Yeah. Look,
being vulnerable is never easy, but it is. It's a
prerequisite if you want a real, healthy relationship that has
depth to it. So I think it's about having to
be brave and take some steps to be vulnerable. But
(07:06):
it's also about who you're choosing to be vulnerable with, Like,
you get to choose who that person is, and if
you're dating someone who anytime you mention emotions or anything
about how you feel, if that other person gets weird
or shuts you down or tells you you're being too
emotional too much, you're not going to feel safe to
open up and be vulnerable, are you. So yeah, I
(07:27):
think you know being vulnerable. It's best when you are
with someone who makes you feel safe to be vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
I think that's a big part of it. Hold space
for you.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I like what you said before. When you argue and
it's about trying to be right with your partner. I
heard another analogy that if you win a real if
you win an argument, your relationship loses. Yeah, yes, you
should never win an argument with your partner.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Well because you guys are routine.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
But which is it?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah, okay, let's pivot to dating in twenty twenty five.
I think it's hard, right, It's so difficult, And I
have a lot of friends who are single and they
tell me some horror stories, and we all have our
horror stories. But I feel like twenty twenty five has
just that little bit of extra spice with people being
(08:16):
very disposable because of dating apps. What is the best
way to meet someone? Would you say?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I think, yeah, you're right, it's difficult these days because
there are so many options and with the dating apps, says,
I mean, you've got endless options in front of you.
I mean, is there a right way or a wrong way? Like,
is there a best way? I don't know. I think
I've personally had great experiences meeting people in real life
and also on the apps. Yes, So I think it's
just about so where your heads are you want to
(08:49):
start putting yourself out there to date. I think the
dating apps can be an amazing way to meet people,
Like we've heard lots of success stories of people on
the apps, but it's about the clearer you are on
what you're looking for and what your intentions are before
you even get yourself onto the apps, the better you're
going to set yourself up for success. So if you
are in your casual dating error, I don't want something serious,
(09:13):
be upfront about that on your dating profile and when
you're talking to people, or if you are looking for
a long term relationship, be upfront about that. I see
a lot of people they kind of tiptoe around that
because they think, oh, if I say I want a
long term relationship, people are going to be put off
by that and they're going to just but no, like
you need to.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Be well, if someone's put off by it, then they're
not the right person.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Well exactly, that's it.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah. Yeah, And like I always say, like, you don't
want someone to fall in love with this fake persona
that you're putting on to impress them, Like you want
someone to fall in love with you, but you know,
the first first date.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Like you're just sitting on the.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Go that far.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
But I mean, like, yeah, this is means two months
from now for dating? Is that too early to get
into that stage? Though? These days, I don't know how
long do people show that these days?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I think it varies and just depends on the person.
Like some people are just going to be have no shame,
like this is who I am and it's there. They're
just like unapologetic about it. And other people are going
to be more self I wonder how.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Long I was with my wife when I would get
up and still brush my teeth in the morning and
she'd do the same before we'd like kiss that. Yeah,
we don't do that anymore. When that's when that stopped.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
But it's it is cute, like when you look back
at those moments and you're like still trying to impress them,
like you like quickly get up and like put a
bit of like powder up.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Okay, So people are often scared of dating. I would say,
what do you think makes dating so scary for people?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Rejection? Yeah, yeah, fear of rejection.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I think in this day and age, people the rate
of comparison and self esteem issues has never been bigger
because of social media, and I think there is a
very real fear that a lot of people, especially they've
come across in my line of work, just have this
core belief that they're not good enough, and so putting
yourself out there in dating situations. I mean, it's a
(11:21):
sure fire way to be in the firing line for rejection.
And I think I think people the more they avoid dating,
the bigger that fear gets. And so i'd say it's rejection.
I'd also say it's probably a fear of like your
worst fear coming true. So people think that, you know,
it's so hard to meet anyone good, I'm not going
(11:42):
to meet anyone nice. I'm going to be single forever.
And if they're projecting that fear, and then they go
out and they have, you know, five dates that have
sucked or they've failed, it's almost the fear of proving
that to be true, and so they just kind of
I see a lot of people just not trying at
all because they're so scared.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah, I've seen that too.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
You coach them out of that?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
I do, ye, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
And how do you coach them that? For people listening,
if you're someone who's afraid to date, what can they do?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I think if you're afraid to date, I mean, first
of all, it's what do you what are you truly
afraid of? Because if we don't look at that like
under a microscope, often just it's just the anticipation and
the fear that feels so daunting that we just stop ourselves.
So it's like, what, really, what is the worst case?
You know, like you go on a date nothing evolves
(12:33):
from it, or you go on a date like the
worst maybe the worst cases you get stood up or
something I don't know, and looking at that, it's like, well, yeah,
that would be a ship but could you handle it,
Like do you reckon? You'd be okay, you'd come out
of that and likely it's like, yes, they would.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
And laugh about it's a good story.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
It's a good story.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, after a couple of months.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
You're saying all this stuff like I don't know, like
all that sort of stuff I just laugh about, Like
because imagine getting stood off. You'd be like it would hurt.
But imagine going and tell me.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
You'd be like you're a loser for standing Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
No, I would imagine me calling you and being like, hey,
I just stood off.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Like it's funny. But it's also like a little bit
of a like.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
I could in the ego, I can understand that, Yeah,
my ego is not that fragile.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
I always go into dating with this mindset that ninety
nine point nine percent of these dates aren't going to
work out, so I'm kind of doing it for the
story and for the plot.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yeah, And I think that mindset shift really helped me
with dating because I was horrendous going on a first date,
like I would have before my first date with my husband.
I had three shots of tequila because I'm so nervous,
like just downing them with like a little bit of
lemon in my apartment by myself, like freaking out, having
(13:52):
meltdowns like I don't want to go.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I can't relate to that, Like I would never get
nervous for a first date.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Really, you're like one in a million. Then, because I can't,
I don't really know anyone.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah. I think it's like one thing I do say
to people and I used to I try to use myself,
is just pretend you're going to meet a friend. Yeah,
like you're just you don't think of it as a date.
Just think of it as like you're just going to
get to know someone. Because if you think about when
you're going to meet a friend, the energy is so different,
like there's no expectation, there's no concern, You're just going
(14:23):
to be yourself. You're just going to be curious about
your friend, like what's been going on, how you're going
And that just creates such a more authentic vibe and
energy that I think helps you to get out of
your head and just into the present moment so that
you can actually see do we connect? Like how do
I feel around this person? Is there a vibe? So yeah,
just and you say like dropping the expectation.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
How do you get to the point where you think
to yourself like I'm a good data like I've I've
nailed this, I've got this. Is it something when you've
clocked it and you've got married? It's about getting married.
I think it's like like you you know you're actively
dating or like what's that mindset? What's going on within?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah? I think to be a good data I think
I really think dating is a skill. So, like anything
any skill, you're going to get better at it the
more you do it. You're going to get more confident
in speaking about yourself in asking questions. And I think
so experience is one thing like practicing just putting yourself
out there, you know, getting the reps in, but then
(15:26):
also really knowing yourself and knowing what your patterns are,
knowing what your history is. You just don't want to
be going in blind, like on autopilot. Right, So if
you are someone who's never stopped to reflect on your
past relationships or dating experiences, and majority of them have
had issues and they've been bad. If you don't stop
and reflect, you're highly likely to just continue that pattern
(15:51):
and attract more of the same people. So it's like
knowing what are your red flags you're looking out for,
what are your non negotiables, what are your green flags?
Are things that are positive for you? You just know
those things.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
It doesn't have to be super super super deep detail,
but just having a bit of an idea, but it's
going to help you be a better data.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Yeah, absolutely, I reckon. Yeah, I feel like there's been
lots of bad dates that I've been able to reflect on,
and I think by the end of like my dating
career shall we call it, I had like a list
of just like absolute nos. So like by the end
of dating, if someone did something that crossed my boundary,
(16:30):
I was like totally out, Like yeah, you just like
with your ex, I'm out, Whereas like at the start
of my dating career, I would be like, oh, but
it's okay, like we're not officially together and like that's fine,
or like they lied to me about something big, or
like you know, like what what am I going to
put up with? And what am I not? And I
guess that's where boundaries come in.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Well, if you let your boundaries slide early on with someone,
then they're going to be like, well, you know, I
can keep crossing boundaries.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, I keep getting away with it and getting.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Away with it, and you're not. You're already up to
a shit it anyway.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
So yeah, what would you say, are some red flags
that you shouldn't ignore when it comes to dating?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Okay, red flags you shouldn't ignore. The first one is
probably just compatibility. So depending on what you're looking for.
I see so many people they'll tell me they want
a relationship and then they meet someone who's like leaving
the country in two months or who has just broken
up with their X and like, yeah, but there's a
really good connection. Like stop.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Chemistry and connection doesn't equal compatibility.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
No. I don't know if it's because I'm pregnant, but
that like really just like so hard, Like say, like.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
You hit it off with someone, you've got good chemistry,
you're like haha, laughing. It doesn't mean you're compatible because
you don't.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Have the same values or you might have things that.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Don't align the one for me.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yeah, okay, so hopefully everyone else wasn't as slow as I.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Was chemistry because it doesn't you get.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
It a great point to bring in. Yeah, so the
compatibility piece of like are you if you're not on
the same page about where you're at in terms of
emotional availability or lifestyle factors all that. Don't ignore that
and just think that, oh no, but like it'll work
out and things will just magically fall into place. It's
maybe that will happen, but you know, yeah, there's a
(18:23):
high chance it won't. Or another red flag is just
if someone is really inconsistent and they're hot and cold
and they're saying one thing and they're doing another. So
if they're out of integrity and if you're noticing early
on that you're feeling a lot of anxiety because you're
not really sure what's going on, Like they're kind of
leaving you guessing a lot, major red flag, Like definitely.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Do you believe in if they wanted to they would statement.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I think to a large degree, if they wanted to
they would. Yes, Yeah, if you're genuinely interested in someone
and you want the connection to develop, like you're going
to make that happen. You're going you're not gonna tiptoe
around it. You know, it's going to be obvious. So yeah,
I think if there's a lot of excuses being made,
there's a lot of justification going on, that's a red flag.
(19:09):
It's like, well, if it's you know, a healthy relationship
should be fairly easy and straightforward as the connection is developing.
But yeah, like you said, Matt, sometimes there's going to
be things in life that are with out of our
control and they're going to get in the way, and
you can't always make things happen. Like life isn't so
black and white, and there's got to be consideration. And
(19:30):
I just think the biggest thing is if it's becoming
a pattern, it's happening over and over again that someone
is yeah, they're not showing up for you, they're making excuses,
and it's happening more than a few times.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
And twice is a pattern. Three times his character?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Oh I like that my job.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
That's like just throwing out.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
You take my job, Matt. Look, if you want.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
You have actually recently launched your own podcast, it's called
The Secure Love Club Congratulations, and you do a lot
of work in love languages and attachment styles. Do you
think that these are buzzwords or do you think that
there's actually some depth to knowing your attachment styles and
(20:25):
your love languages.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I think they definitely are very common now. People are
talking about this all over TikTok, all over Instagram. Attachment styles.
It is a bit of a buzzword thing, but there's
so much depth to it, and it's such an important
component of relationships and how the different dynamics we experience
in relationships and how things play out. So yeah, it's
(20:50):
in a bit of a buzzword phase, but very important work.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Okay, So the attachment styles go through them? Okay, Okay,
so you're the guest.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
There's so we have there's four attachment styles. Three are
more common commonly spoke about. So there's securely attached, which
is actually about fifty percent of the population. Then we
have the insecure attachment styles, so there's anxiously attached on
one end, and then avoidant attached on the other. And
then there's a fourth one called disorganized attachment, which is
(21:24):
a bit of a combination of anxious and avoidance, so
you're not like predominantly in one. You kind of flip
flop between the two quite intensely, but yet mostly the secure,
anxious and avoidant.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
You said the fifty secure.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Yeah, where the fuck are they married? Where the fuck
are whack it up?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah? Right? Would you mind sharing what you are?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah? Absolutely? I am securely attached previous anxiously attached girl and.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
You worked through that to get too secure? Do you
have a partner that helped you get there?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Or I did have a partner who helped me there?
So I started my journey of going from anxious to
secure in twenty twenty. So I went through quite a
significant breakup with a partner who was heavily avoidant. I
was heavily anxious, the dream combination, And once that relationship
broke down, I sort of looked back over all of
(22:18):
my past relationships and I just had this kind of
moment where I thought, why the fuck does this keep happening? Like,
why are relationship so hard? It shouldn't have to be
like this. And I would look around at other couples
who were happy and seemed to be in a healthy
relationship and that's when I kind of realized I'm the
common denominator here amongst all of these, so I need
to figure some shit.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Out great self awareness.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Yeah, thank you knowing that.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
So that's when I and my sister, actually my elder
sister had been getting me, telling me to read this
book called Attached by Emir Levine for a good couple
of years, and I kept pushing it away, pushing it
away because like, I don't need it, don't need it,
you know, I think you're not ready to you're ready
to actually confront this stuff. And went through this breakup
and she's like, read this damn book. It's like fine.
(23:04):
So I took it and just absolutely inhaled it. Like
it was as though for the first time in my life,
this blindfold was being lifted, and I finally understood myself
and why I attracted certain types of people in relationships,
why I was always so anxious, always feeling like I
was too much. And that's when the healing journey started.
So that's when I was just you know, delving into
(23:27):
the topic researching. I hired a coach of my own
to help me work through it, and did a lot
of work for about a year. I it was intentionally
single for a year to work on my relationship with myself. Great, yeah,
which I think is very important, And then ended up
attracting a beautiful guy, secure man and we got into
a relationship. And that sort of comes back to what
(23:49):
I said earlier about I was surprised at how much
should have needed to be worked through coming into a
secure relationship, because as those who are anxiously attachable, when
you're dating people who are avoidant or emotionally unavailable, there's
a lot of chaos. There's a lot of up and down.
It's very tumultuous. And when you get into a secure
(24:10):
with a secure partner, in that relationship, it's so stable
and predictable and they're just they're there, and for your
nervous system, when you're not wired for that stability, it's
very jarring and you almost want to create chaos where
there is none. I found myself wanting to do that,
like create fights or create drama out of nothing, because
(24:32):
I was like, is this what a healthy relationship is?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Like?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
It's boring almost, right, So there's an adjustment period with that.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah, So it sounds like having an anxious partner and
an avoidant partner is not what we want to have
in a relationship. But of course there's probably people out
there listening who are an avoidant and an anxious attachment person.
How can they strengthen their relationship If you.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Have someone who's anxious and avoidant and there's real love there,
but you're really struggling to understand each other, I would say,
if you want the relationship to work, you both have
to want to work at it. Yeah, So that means
understanding your history, right, because our attachment styles are predominantly
formed in our early childhood. So understanding what was your
(25:23):
relationship like with your parents? What was it when you
were emotional and like you said, you had that bid
for connection with your parent or you tried to express it.
Were they there for you consistently? Did they shut you down?
Did you your parents go through a divorce? Like, all
of these things are contributing to how you're showing up
in your romantic relationships as an adult. So the better
(25:44):
you can understand that as individuals, the more you're going
to be able to understand what's going on for the
other person and you can work with each other to
try to become more secure in the relationship.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
In some ways is an anxious and an anxious attachment
to get good because then they're just yeah, I don't
know if i'd say each other, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
No, not commonly no, no, the yeah, an anxious and
anxious might just be really codependent.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, yeah, okay, I can say that. Yeah, that's what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Connect.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
That's not good to be codependent on your partner.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
That's you want to be more like interdependent. So you
want to be It means that you are happy and
comfortable being independent so you can live your life outside
of the relationship. You have friends, Like, you're happy doing
your own thing, but you're also comfortable leaning on your
partner for support and also giving your partner support. So
you understand it's natural for you to to want to
(26:44):
lean on one another and that doesn't scare you away
or anything. It's fine. But if your partner wants to
go out for the night with their friends, you're like,
no worries, Like, you're happy doing your.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Thing, so like a healthy version of that. You want
to we want to keep it healthy. What about avoidant
and avoidant do they ever get together?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yes, they can.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Their arguments. Just imagine the rug would be like this
because they swept everything under the ru.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Well, exactly. Yeah, the problem. The problem with those relationships
is that there's really not a lot of communication going
on about what they're feeling. And I think people who
are avoidant can really struggle to even identify what they're
feeling because they're so used to pushing their emotions down
and suppressing them because they don't know how to actually
manage their emotions when they come up. So if you
have two people who are doing that, it might seem
(27:35):
like on paper, on surface level, that things are fine,
things are chill, because there's not really any arguments going on.
But what would happen over time is I think both
people in that relationship would feel very isolated. Most likely
they're just really comfortable in that dynamic and they just
want to stay like that.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Imagine a relationship with two secure people.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
What does that look like?
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah, what does that look like?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
That looks like two people who know themselves, two people
who want the relationship to work, who are comfortable holding
space for each other's emotions, who are in integrity, so
they say they do what they say they're going to do.
They hold space for their partner. So if their partner
(28:22):
is experiencing something. They're feeling anxious, they're feeling upset. It's
you know, yet, like we said earlier, they're not put
off by that. They're able to just be there for
their partner and give them support and just understand what
they're going through. And you work together as a team,
like you know that when you're vulnerable together, it actually
makes you stronger, it doesn't push you apart.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Before we move on, we need to touch on disorganized because
I've never heard of the disorganized attachment style. Can you
take us through what that means?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah? So I guess if we look at anxious and
avoidant for context, So someone who's anxiously attached in a
relationship is typically seeking a lot of external validation. They
need a lot of reassurance in the relationship that everything's okay,
and that's their coping mechanism, so they'll turn to their
partner to sue their anxieties. Someone who's avoidant needs the opposite.
(29:14):
So when they're stressed or there's conflict going on, they
typically want space and they push away like I just
need to deal with this on my own, Give me space.
Someone who's disorganized is going to be a sort of
erratic blend of the two. So there's an argument, there's conflict,
and the disorganized attachment person sort of doesn't know what
they want, Like they might try to get really close
and then all of a sudden they're like no, no, no,
(29:36):
and they push away and they stone wall their partner
and then they come crawling back really quickly. So they're
sort of all over the place and very disregulated. And Yeah, what.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Would form someone to do that? What traumas or how
would their primary caretaker have done that to them? What
sort of triggers.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
That Typically it's people who have this attachment style have
been through a very traumatic childhood. Yeah, so if we
talk about things like big T trauma, so that's when
there might have been physical or emotional abuse in the family,
are really really difficult divorce, being abandoned, so just being
left by your parents really big T trauma. Things like
(30:13):
that would probably cause it.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Okay, let's talk a little bit about love languages. What
are the love languages?
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Love languages we have physical touch, words of affirmation, acts
of service quality type yes, yes?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
And do we need to have the same love languages
as our partner? Could this be a deal breaker? In relationships,
talk us through that.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
You don't have to have the same ones. I think
it's helpful if you do, right, because if you have
someone who let's say you have one person in the relationship,
they experience love through words of affirmation and then their
partner the way they express love is through gift giving,
right that, And I can give you as many gifts
(31:02):
as you would ever dream of. But because that's not
your love language. The way you receive love, it doesn't
mean anything to.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
You receive it and give it in two different ways.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Can you receive it and give it in two different ways?
Speaker 1 (31:15):
So, like I receive love through affection and words of validation,
but I give it through physical touch and quality time.
But I guess I feel that's how.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
I feel personally about your experience, and I feel like
I'll take it through physical touch as well.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I'll take it through.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
No, I mean I'll take them all.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
No, I'm not. I'm not big on gift giving both ways.
I get uncomfortable getting gifts, and I don't really enjoy
giving gifts. Like I feel uncomfortable as well. I'm like, like,
do you like it? Don't give flowers or notes or
something like that. But am I going to go out
of my way to get like a gift like partners
that you know buy me like stuff and I'm just
like like five and doll stuff and I'm just like.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I don't know now, Yeah, yeah, I think in my experience,
how you receive love is probably mostly how you'd give it, right,
because you're kind of giving like what you maybe hope
to get back. But I think it varies. The most
important thing is understanding how your partner receives love. So
if you know that they feel the most love from
(32:20):
you when you tell them how you feel, rather than
just showing them through acts, then that's an opportunity for
you to Okay, I know that means a lot to her.
I know that means a lot to him, So I
can make a conscious effort to do that so that
they feel loved. Yeah, right, So it's just understanding your
partner and what they need.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
You love, acts of service.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
I think I love them all. I think I'm the.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
All touch acts, gifts, gifts.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Physically I think like it, Like you know, like gifts
for like a special occasion is how I would receive love.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Would accent service and gifts? I don't, I don't.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I'm with you. I would rather my loved ones or
to give me, like a really heartfelt card words to me.
I'm like, give me that any day over a random present,
and that's how I give it. So I despise buying
gifts of people for their birthdays because I just I
hate doing it. I enjoy it what to get people.
But I will write you the nicest card. You'll be
(33:17):
in tears just.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
The same thing. Yeah, I mean, if I seek something
that I clearly know they want, I'll get it.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
But like, imagine someone you're in bed on a Saturday
morning and then your partner goes out and gets your
fresh coffee.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Service. Everyone loves that.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
I love that. That's like hitting the spot.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
From I think I'd appreciate it. I'd really appreciate it,
like how good is the coffee?
Speaker 3 (33:47):
But like, so you do like service?
Speaker 1 (33:49):
No, No, I wouldn't be like, oh my god. I
would have been, oh my god, they're in love with me.
Like say, for instance, we rocked up to the studio
and you guys had me a coffee. I would have
be like, oh, they're the coin, Like.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Thanks, So what would make you feel? Like? Really thought of.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Physical physical touch probably as well as words, but just
quality time, knowing like I like to hang out quality
and just to hang out quality time.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Being in the same space together.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
I've heard. So obviously, if we have all of our
preferences and then because they're our preferences, we kind of
do that in return to our partner. But if we
don't know them well, like, for instance, Matt would not
find getting a coffee potentially like you like it, but.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
It's not your for instance, be my partner will go
to one of us will go to the gym in
the morning, and the otherum will bring a coffee back
to the other person. But to me, that's just not
an active So.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
That's just Yeah, So what I'm saying is is I
think that I've I saw something that said that people
go wrong in relationships when they give someone what they
want as opposed to knowing what your partner needs or wants.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, definitely, because yeah, like we said before, if you're
if you like I love buying gifts of people, like
I'm just going to shower my partner with gifts because
it makes me feel so good And if I buy
you gifts, it means I love you, right, And so
you're doing that you have the best of intentions. But again,
if your partner, if what really means the most of
(35:17):
them is hearing you say how much they mean to you,
like hearing you say how much they love you. Then
the gift giving it might be like, oh, that's really nice,
but it's not like it's not giving.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, let's pivot back to relationships.
We hear the word I was in a toxic relationship
very often, specifically in modern day dating. Do you think
that relationships are getting worse or are we just getting
more switched on and klue about what we want to
(35:51):
accept and what we.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Don't setting our standards higher boundaries.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
I would say almost yes and no. I think on
the one hand, we are getting we are more aware,
and it's less taboo to talk about our emotional experiences
in relationships these days. So you know, in the past,
you know, for our parents and generations before them, it
was very common to not talk about your emotions, and
(36:20):
you know, you just if you get sad, you like,
come on, just get on with it, like let's get
on with the day, and you suppress your emotions, and
that was sort of the norm. So I would say
there was probably a lot of toxic relationships or unhealthy
dynamics in the past. It just wasn't spoken about. Yeah,
So that's on the one hand, But on the other
I do think that, like we mentioned earlier, with the
(36:43):
with dating apps and with social media, and with the
perceived amount of availability or what you can have in
a person, I think there's a lot of sort of
disposing of people. As soon as you experience one thing
you don't like, or there's one thing that makes you uncomfortable,
it's like, oh, well, onto the next you mustn't be
for me. So there's a lack of perseverance in getting
to know the person and building the found like a
(37:04):
strong foundation.
Speaker 5 (37:05):
That makes sense, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Do you think that people stay in toxic relationships longer
than they should?
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Mostly?
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Yes, And how can they not do that?
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Well, it's it's the nature of a toxic relationship is
what makes you stay. So when we're in there's a
relationship where let's say there's a highly anxious, highly avoidant,
we could say that's toxic, and what's actually going on
is there's a real like chemical addiction that's happening in
the body. So for someone who's anxious when there's a conflict,
(37:45):
you'll get this spike in cortisols. It's like the stress
hormone and adrenaline in your body. You're freaking out, Your
nervous system is all over the place, and you are
so desperate to get that person's connection to come back
to you and to get their love. When you finally
do get it, you get this huge flood of dopamine
and oxytosein like the love hormone. So that spiral like
(38:09):
that's up and down is really addictive. It's been said
to be the same as like a heroin addiction, like
really high highs, really low lows. So it's not that
people are just weak or have like not enough willpower
to leave a toxic relationship. It's like you're literally addicted
to the cycle. So yeah, a lot of people stay
(38:29):
in them longer than they should. But I think it's
because they just they don't know any better. Yeah, they
just think that this is what relationships are, this is
what's normal. Like I can figure it out, and there's
a thing called forget the term. But it's like when
you are let's say, as a child, your parents were
very emotionally unavailable, so you never knew, like if they
(38:51):
were going to be there for you when you needed
them to emotionally. And so as an adult, you have
this subconscious drive to want to like win the game,
to almost master it. So you keep attracting people who
are emotionally unavailable because you think, if I just try
hard enough, if I just do enough, I'll crack it
and I'll win them over. So there's this, Yeah, a
lot of it is driven subconsciously.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Yeah, Okay, speaking of toxic relationships, we need to touch
on setting boundaries. I feel like as a society we
have gotten so much better at setting boundaries in workspaces
with friends, but I feel like in relationships sometimes people
still really struggle. Why do you think that is.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
The biggest reason is that you there's a fear of abandonment.
So you think if I set a boundary, it's just
going to push my partner away and I'm going to
lose love. So you don't set boundaries. You just let
people take whatever they want from you, cross your boundaries.
Because Yeah, I think for a lot of people, the
fear of losing their partner just outweighs the desire to
(39:54):
create like a healthy, respectful relationship.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Yeah, but then I guess would we say to those
peop people, if you don't set the boundaries early on,
then you're not with someone who respects and cares about you.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah. Yes, And I think it comes with really learning
how to set boundaries in your life, even before a
relationship or outside a relationship. Yeah, and with yourself. I
always say that you teach people how to treat you
by the way you treat yourself. So if you uphold
boundaries that protect your time, protect your energy, and you
(40:27):
really maintain them, then people are naturally going to see
that in you. They're going to say, Okay, this is
someone who takes herself seriously, who doesn't fuck around, So
I need to make sure i'm like rising to meet
that I need to respect her boundaries. So a boundary,
instead of looking at as looking at it as something
that pushes people away, you're actually if you set boundaries
(40:47):
to the people, it's sort of an act of love
because you're telling people I care about you, I want
you in my life. So if you want to be
in my life, this is how to do it, Like
this is how to love me, this is how to
be around me. As long as you protect these like
we're good, and I'm going to give you the best
of me because my energy and time are going to
be protected.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Yeah. Absolutely. Let's just say you're in a relationship and
you haven't set good boundaries and you realize, maybe a
little bit too late, that fuck, I need to actually
start setting boundaries and following through with them. Can you
still do that or does it need to happen from
the start.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
No, I'd say it's never too late. Okay, it's never
too late to set a boundary. Yeah. And as something
that is very common that can happen is when you
start setting boundaries, you'll notice some people in your life
will really hate it because they might lose certain access
to you. They can't just have you at their disposal
whenever they want. And if there's a big uproar when
you do set a boundary, it's probably a sign that
(41:46):
it was really needed. Yeah, So it's not too late,
you know. I think no one's perfect and it can
take time to realize like, oh, I'm actually feeling really
fucking depleted in this relationship. Why It's because I don't
have boundaries here, here, and here. So you know, hopefully
you're with someone who is open to always open to
growing in the relationship, and it's just about having that conversation,
(42:09):
setting the boundary, and then the biggest part is following
through and maintaining it. Like you said earlier, Matt, if
you don't maintain the boundary, people will see that and
they will test you whether it's weakness. Yeah, And a
lot of the time it's not that it's malicious or
it's intentional. It's just that people will naturally want to
be selfish and get what they can from someone that
(42:30):
they love. So if you're letting people across your boundaries, like,
that's on you as well.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Yeah. Absolutely, Obviously. I know that a lot of people
fall into the people pleaser category and you don't want
to put boundaries down even with friends, because you feel
like you could come across as rude or cold. What
would you say to those people, I.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Would say that if you're you know, the most important
relationship you have is the one you have with yourself.
And if you are overgiving just to make everyone else happy,
like you only have so much energy you can give
and you're going to reach a point of burnout, you're
not going to be happy. Yeah, So if you can
(43:12):
take care of yourself, like that's when you get to
give people the best of you, not the rest of you.
You're not just pouring from an empty cup. So don't
be afraid to take care of yourself and set boundaries.
And it's a great way to find out who your
real people are, like the friends of your real friends,
and also in a romantic relationship, because people who truly
love you and want to be around you will respect
(43:34):
your boundaries. Yeah, so I.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Couldn't agree more for it. Should we finish with a
thumb one?
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Yeah? What is the most ridiculous piece of dating advice
or a relationship advice that you've been given or received
that works? Yeah, but we don't want to give people
stuff that doesn't work.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
You could say dates.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Actually you said this earlier and one time, so years ago,
when I was very anxious on dates, a friend of
mine said, you just need to show up like you're
the prize. And at first was like, what do you mean?
Like that sounds so conceited. I don't want to walk
in there thinking I'm like hot shit, I don't want
to you know, have this huge ego, And she's like, no,
it's not about that, It's just about flipping your focus
(44:20):
when you're on the dates. So rather than going in
and being really self conscious wondering like am I good
enough for this person? They like me? And my pretty enough?
Am my interesting enough? Whatever? To flip the focus and
ending like you're the prize so that you can look
at this person and say, well, are they good enough
for me?
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Yeah, that's what we say on that Yes, are they.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Aligned with what I want? You know, do they have
the qualities I'm looking for? And it's not to say
that you're better than anyone, it's just to you know,
you're the prize, like boost your esteem a little bit
and just see if other people are good enough for you,
And it definitely works.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Mamie, thank you so much. This has been amazing. We've
learned so much. I hope this has been super helpful
for you guys, and make sure you go check out
Mami's podcast and next time.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Bye bye, thank you, thank you for coming.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
One mm hmm
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