June 9, 2025 • 46 mins
Hi,
On this very special episode of Where's Your Bump At, I'm delighted to be joined by the incredible Dr Golly. Dr Golly is a massive resource for education for all Mum's and Mum's to-be so I knew I had to get him on as soon as I started this project. Today, I'm asking Dr Golly all things private, public or homebirth. What are the differences? Is private worth it for the differences involved? What are some of the misconceptions behind these options?
We unpack it all and I'm so grateful for Dr Golly's time and resources!
All my love,
Anna xx
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wanting to have kids is a huge life decision. But
once you're ready to embark on that journey, what do
you actually need to know? This podcast is a community
you never knew you needed from mums and mums to
be We're about to embark on this learning journey together
and it's going to be real. It's going to be
raw and a completely non judgmental space. You're listening to
(00:24):
Where's your Bump hat and this is Ana Macavoy Staples.
I'm going to be interviewing experts in the field so
that all of our burning questions can be answered, from
understanding our cycle to knowing what is the best time
to conceive and so much more. We'll get into the
(00:45):
difference between natural verse c section births, strange pregnancy symptoms
and everything in between. Okay, so today we are joined
by doctor Golly.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Hello, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Thank you for being on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
It's so funny because I was at the Grand Prix
recently in Melbourne and I was talking to Milana Hope
and she was just absolutely raving about you. She was like,
you need to see him when the baby's born.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
He's the best.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
And then funnily enough, she ran into you after we
had that conversation.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
She was like, speak of the devil.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
That was it was very, very funny. It was like
I was told it was like less than an hour
after you'd spoken to her. I literally bumped into it
to walking out. It was bizarre.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
It's so funny how just like things like that seem
to ALIGNE. Yeah, and then in the back of my
head it was meant to happen, and I was Obviously
this podcast has not come out yet, no one knows
about it, but I've been secretly recording episodes, and I
was like, maybe I should get doctor.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Golly on, awesome, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah, let's do this.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I think I really want to have just an open
conversation about public hospitals versus private potentially verse other options
like home births. I think it's a very nuanced conversation,
but just a topic that when you first get pregnant,
it's something that you want to know about. So I
(02:14):
think this is just a great resource for people. So
I want to start by asking you what are the
main differences between public and private hospitals when it comes
to giving birth in Australia.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
It's such a funny question because there are so many differences,
and yet there are so few differences as well, and
every single person, family, couple has a slightly different experience,
and even every family's child, like your subsequent delivery may
be completely different to your first. And you know, it's
(02:48):
quite wild the variability. I've worked in both public and
private in Australia as well as all over Australia, and
I've sort of seen it all.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Probably the thing that makes the biggest difference to most families,
specifically most women, is the choice of person who you're
seeing who is delivering that baby, making of course if
they get there in time. But probably the biggest difference
public private is that in the private sector you are
choosing your obstetrician. You are seeing your obstetrician at every
(03:24):
check up along the way, and then when it's time
for baby to arrive, barring some sort of traffic jam
or you know, your obstrition being away, it's going to
be that person delivering your baby.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah. Absolutely. I actually had a bit.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Of a scare recently and I had to go to
hospital in the middle of the night and I at
the time was thirty one weeks pregnant, and they told me, well,
it doesn't matter. So I'm private. I've chosen to go private,
but I've chosen the embraced program, which we can touch
on a little bit later. And they said, well, since
you're thirty one weeks, you'll go public anyway. So can
(04:01):
you talk us through that, because even if you do
choose to be private, you can end up in the
public system due to Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
It's happening.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
That's a very very good point. There is an element
of control you have over it, and then there's a
bit that you don't as well. So the one thing
about the public system is that that is where you'll
find what we call tertiary level care. So that's the
highest level medical care. And you've got a factor in
two things. You've got a factor in mum's care and
you've also got a factor in baby's care as well.
(04:31):
So if you're talking about a baby arriving at thirty
one weeks, we're talking about prematurity, you want to make
sure that that baby's being delivered as close to a
tertiary center as possible and the safest thing, you know,
if for example, you rocked up at your private hospital
at I don't know, say twenty six weeks and that
(04:51):
baby had to come out, it would be safest to
transport mum to the tertiary hospital and then deliver baby,
although sometimes we don't have that luxury now. The tertiary hospital,
the tertiary center for a baby is a newborn ICU,
and they only exist in the public setting. There's no
such thing as a private newborn ICU. When you sort
(05:12):
of graduate out and your level of care drops to
special care nursery, then there is a private option. But
when it comes to that high level care, when you're
talking about very unwell babies, babies who need emergency surgery,
or very premature babies, then it's going to have to
be it's going to happen have to happen at a
tertiary center.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So for someone listening to this, let's just say they've
just found out they're pregnant, they're very excited, and they
haven't yet made the decision to go public versus private
or whatever option.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
They choose to go.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Is there any difference in the medical care that you're getting, Like,
is someone private getting better medical care or is it
the same?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
No, it's the same. So the level of care is
exactly the same, but of course who's delivering that care changes,
and it's so complicated because most of the doctors who
work in the private hospitals also work in the public hospitals.
That's really common, So you might end up you might
(06:14):
have two women delivering on the same day, one private,
one public, one paying private fees, one paying nothing for
public and they both get delivered with the help of
the same obstetrician. So you know, we hear these stories
all the time. Also, in the public space, you might
be looked after by someone who's training in obstetrics, so
(06:36):
they might not have necessarily a huge amount of experience,
but they are learning, and you know they're being trained
under the supervision and guidance of a more senior obstetrician.
And the same thing happens for your baby. So if
you are delivering in the private sphere, your baby will
be seen by a private pediatrician consultant, whereas if it's
(06:56):
in the public space, a consultant will be available, not
necessarily on site, but available, but your child will be
looked after by those training in pediatrics.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So in the public system, let's talk about the advantages
of being a public patient.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Probably the biggest advantage of going public is that safety
of having tertiary level care if you need it. And
I remember when my wife was pregnant with our first
and I said to our obstetrician, we also elected to
go private, and I said to him, surely you know
(07:35):
we have to deliver at a tertiary center. And if
you think about it, I was one of those trainee pediatricians,
so all I knew was that babies are born with problems.
There's no such thing as a healthy baby, because I
was never called to a healthy baby delivery. So you know,
obviously I knew better, but experience, you know, it throws you.
And I said to the obstetrician, come on, we've got
(07:57):
to deliver at a tertiary center. And he's I don't
know about you, but I'm not planning on you having
a sick baby. And it was just this anxiety that
I had to get over. So what's the benefit of public, Well,
you've got people on site all the time, you've got
tertiary care if you need it, and also you know,
there's the fact that it's not going to cost you
(08:17):
anything out of pocket, which is a huge benefit, especially
in a cost of living crisis.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, I mean the tertiary care is a huge advantage
of going public and would you say that the majority
of the private hospitals don't offer that.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
They don't offer tertiary level care. So there's different nurseries,
which is that medium level care. They have different capacities,
whether it's the capacity of the staff, the nursing staff,
or the capacity of the actual nursery. Could also be space.
If you've got a nursery that's full, you just simply
can't deliver a baby there because there's nowhere for them
(08:53):
to go, or they might be delivered and then transported out,
which is quite a common thing. So you know, it
depends on the level that that nursery is capable of.
So for example, where I work in a private hospital,
we won't have women delivering when they are under thirty
two weeks or when the expected baby's weight is going
(09:15):
to be under two kilograms, just purely from a safety
point of view and looking after that baby. As I said,
the safest place, the safest way to transport a baby
is in the mother's womb. So if you know you're
expecting a small baby, if you know you're expecting a
problem and it's not an emergency berth, it's best to
transfer to a public hospital. And then you know, once
(09:37):
baby has recovered and is doing well and has the
care levels stepped down to nursery level from ICU level,
then often we can transfer them back to that private
hospital if it's closer to home, or if it's the
parent's choice.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Let's pivot to private again. What are the advantages of
going private?
Speaker 2 (09:57):
So probably the biggest advantage, as we talked about, is
able to choose, being able to choose your obstetrician, being
able to choose your pediatrician as well. That's important to
some people. And then there's the experience, and this differs
from every hospital. There are plenty of people who will
say that they've had a better experience in the public space.
And as I said, it's all about your particular experience,
(10:19):
which is completely dependent on the staff, on what happened
medically with you, how long it took you, all so
many different factors. But probably the thing that people like
most about the private space is the choice of obstetrician, pediatrician,
anisthetist as well to a degree. And there's also the
(10:42):
fact that most private hospitals are a little bit nicer
in their design, and you know, the food quality and
all the little things. And for some people those little
things make a big difference. For other people they couldn't
care less. So it's very much knowing what you like,
knowing what's important to you. And also the other thing
to remember is the length of stay. So some people
(11:02):
in a public system will go home really quickly, like
some people within hours of their birth. And if that's
if that's what you want. If people hate being in
hospitals and just want to go home, that's amazing. Other
people want, you know, a full four nights, five days,
you know, no pressure to go home if things are
not going well. And that may be the experience in
(11:24):
a private space, so it tends to be less rushed,
a fewer people, so you know you're going to more
likely to have a private room as opposed to public space.
You might be sharing a room with three other women
and three other babies, potentially more so you have a
high degree of control in the private space, but that
(11:44):
is of course something that you pay for.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, I love what you said about Some people say,
oh my god, I loved my public experience. Some people
say I loved my private experience. But every single woman
is different, every birth story is different, so of course
there's going to be so many differences. And I think
that's why when you are making this decision, it can
be so hard to choose because you're there's so much
(12:09):
information out there. So yeah, it's so good that we're
having this conversation because even now I'm thinking about things
that I hadn't even thought of.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
It is and you know, if I think a lot
of people are unaware of what's available to them, so
you know, talk and that's why I love you know,
podcasts like this are so good because they just give
people information. They you know, you find out things you
didn't know you needed to know, or you didn't know
was important to you. The other thing to make sure
of is that you're having these thoughts, you know, when
(12:38):
you're thinking about becoming pregnant, not when you are pregnant,
because a lot of private health funds will have wait lists,
So if you have to wait twelve months for your
maternity cover to kick in but you are already three
months pregnant, then it's of no benefit and it might
be a little bit of a fight between you and
the health fund. So you need to make these decisions
(12:58):
before you start trying for a baby, because you might
need to consider wait lists.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, that's such a good point.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, I know that everyone always says make sure you
get that private health cover if you're looking to go
private a year in advance. Let's just say you do
get it, like nine months in advance, and then you
accidentally fall pregnant. Can you still then go private? Do
you maybe, like for the first three months, you can't
until you get to that twelve month waiting period, and
(13:26):
then you can go private.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
It tends to differ based on each health fund. Some
health funds will say okay, no problem, others will be
quite strict about it, and then others will say, well,
if baby arrives after you've completed twelve months weight then
that's okay. Remember, health funds are really only coming into
play when it's time to get to hospital, not all
the prenatal care. And also, you know there are some
(13:53):
health funds that will allow you to jump that weight
list if you pay an extra premium to begin with.
Have the conversation with your health fund, see how far
you can push them, and consider all your options in
terms of different health funds if they're not playing.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Obviously, costs and finances is one of the biggest factors
for Australians choosing to go public versus private, and as
you said before, we are living in a cost of
living crisis, so most people opt to go to the
public system. Can we talk about costs and what the
(14:29):
costs are and what the differences are like when you're
going public? Are you paying zero dollars and coming out
with a baby versus however much a private experience costs?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, you are. You're not expected to be paying anything
when you go public. There may be some costs sort
of as you walk out the door in terms of
medication that you might be buying that are not included
or not required during your stay, but by and large
you can expect to be paying zero to very little
money and that's the beauty of of the Australian healthcare system.
(15:01):
Of course, you've got to have a Medicare card in
order to access that. When it comes to private, people
are often quite confused by this because you've got different
fees and they can sometimes come at you from all angles.
So the first to consider is the hospital stay, and
then the next thing to consider are the private doctors
that you are engaging with. So from a hospital state,
(15:24):
most health funds will have an excess for you to
pay and then nothing else. Whether you stay in hospital
for twelve hours or you stay in hospital for twelve months,
it doesn't matter. You pay one single fee and most
will not require you to pay a second excess for
your baby because if a baby's born, well, they aren't
(15:45):
actually admitted to hospital. Now every hospital does this slightly differently,
but the one I work out, the baby's not admitted.
They're called borders, just like your partner who pay for breakfast,
but you're not actually a patient of the hospital. I
love that if the baby is admitted, you don't have
to pay a second excess, and their cover their care
is also paid for two. Now that's your excess, you
(16:08):
pay once and then everything is covered for your hospital stay.
But the doctors involved in your care and your baby's
care will have different fees, so that will be discussed
in your original obstric appointment. When you engage your private obstetrician,
they'll talk about their fees, which will be for the
entire pregnancy and follow up as well. And then if
(16:30):
you have a pediatrician. Some do, some don't. There'll be
separate fees for the pediatrician, And if you have an anthetist,
if you have an epidural, or if you undergo a cesarean,
there'll be separate fees for the anethotist as well. There's
also different ways the private doctors will build your health
fund directly with no out of pocket costs to you.
(16:54):
So there's so many different ways that this can look
and the key is just to ask, because every doctor
does it slightly differently. And you may turn around and say,
you know what, I've got my private obstetrici, but I
don't want to pay for a pediatrician, so I don't
want to engage them, and I do want to have
an epidural, so I'd like to engage in anithetus. So
(17:16):
you know, you've got far more control in the private
space to a degree, as much as you can control
pregnancy and delivery. But that's the important thing that people
love about the private space is just that extra element
of control which is important for some women.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I mentioned before that I have joined the Embraced program,
which is basically maybe I shouldn't describe it and I
should let you describe it, but from my knowledge, it's
when you go private, you choose your you have your
private ob but instead of seeing the obstetrician let's say
ten times, you might see them five times, and then
they're midwives in their rooms five times and it saves
(17:54):
on cost. What do you think about this program? Is
this kind of like the happy medium between in public
versus private?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, there are so many options available and it's wonderful.
It's really wonderful. So you can have you know, midwife
only care in the public system for really low risk,
great easy pregnancies. I've had mums say to me, you know,
I spent such a fortune on private care and you know,
I delivered the baby. The obstrition didn't even get there
(18:23):
in time. It was a total I felt like a
waste of money. I didn't need it. And then they
went public second time round because they felt, you know what,
I carry well, I deliver well, I don't need all
that extra backup. You know. I've also heard people who
do that and then something didn't go a plan and
they really wanted that backup. So there's so many different
ways that you can do this. And you know that
(18:45):
shared care model that you're describing, which is a little
bit midwife lad, a little bit doctor led. It's a
really good balance between the two and if it does
enable you to access this at a lower cost, then
that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Okay, So let's talk about hidden costs, not just in
regards to the delivery, but maybe in the lead up
up to delivering or giving birth.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
I noticed a few. So the first one.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Was the NIPS test was four hundred and fifty dollars,
which I just didn't expect. I thought that was I
thought it was baby becovered a bit more by Medicare,
you know, I had an iron transfusion that was five
hundred dollars. That was after my private healthcare took money
off that. There's all these like little hidden costs. Can
(19:40):
we talk about some of those hidden costs things that
people can expect if they're new to this journey, to
keep an eye out for.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, financial disclosure is really really important in the medical space.
And the only you know, there's a lot of paperwork
you'll be signing. Whether you're public or private, whomever you're engaging,
there's always documents to sign and it's really hard. I mean,
I'm guilty of this. Who reads the fine print? Really,
I think the key is just to talk about it.
(20:09):
And you know, if having discussions about money is uncomfortable
to you, like it is for me, I think you
have to get past it and just once just sit
down and say, you know, medical care aside, I just
don't want surprises. You know, having a baby's really expensive.
Whether you're public or private, it's expensive. There's costs left,
right and center, whether it's you know, new equipment for
(20:32):
the car or a stroller and nappies and whatever it is,
is so much added expense when you delve into the
world of parenthood. You just want to know before you
get there, what is possible, what's likely, and how much
it's going to cost you, but most importantly how much
you're going to spend out of pocket. So we have
these wonderful safety nets in Australia. You've got your private
(20:55):
health fund that will cover the costs of certain different things,
and you've also got the Medicare safety net. So I mean,
I'm no politician, but the best way I got my
head around it is in a calendar year, from the
beginning of January to the end of December, if you
spend a certain amount of money beyond what Medicare pays
(21:15):
for things, then there is this safety net. So as
soon as you reach that threshold, then what Medicare will
do is they will give you more money back from
the cost of for example, private appointments or extra scans,
extra tests, et cetera. So keep an eye out for
that Medicare safety net and when you reach it, a
(21:35):
significantly higher percentage of your final cost rebated back to you.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
That is so interesting. I never knew that, and I'll
definitely be hipping an eye out.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
And it's not a particularly high threshold, like the people.
People who go through private maternity tend to reach that
threshold really really quickly because of the private eb ceterric fees,
so almost all people are over it. It's funny because
I always joke with my rooms that my secretaries are
you know, they're really put to work in December because
(22:07):
so many people want to have an appointment in December
before that safety net resets on the first of January.
So keep an eye out for the day to keep
an eye out for your safety net, and you'll find
that the rebates will be significantly significantly higher.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Love that guys, what will be doing that. Definitely keep
an eye out. Let's talk about obviously we've spoken a
lot about private hospital stays and fees. Can you give
us a rough estimate of how much someone should expect
to pay in Australia, Let's just say for the actual
hospital visit.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
In the private space, most commonly that excesses five hundred dollars,
that's what health funds will charge you. Depends on your premium,
depends on your fund, depends on your cover level. But
most people are looking at about five hundred dollars out
of pocket. And then there are other things that you
might be paying for. But it's so hard to answer
because it's so dependent on which hospital you're at and
(23:05):
which medical team you've got. But by and large, you
know the most common The way to answer that will
probably be the best way to talk about the most
common scenario. You've got your excess, Then you've got your
obstetrician fees, which you know beforehand. You've got your pediatrician
fees if they're involved, and anesthetis fees if they're involved,
(23:25):
and then you've got your pharmacy fees. So if you're
going home, you're getting painkillers or whatever it is that
you've been prescribed. If you're going home with that, then
there'll be an extra cost for that on average.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
How much would someone pay for a private obstetrician.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Ah, that's a great question. You Wow, how long is
a piece of string? I mean there are some private
obstetricians who are charging you know, two three grand. There
are others who are charging ten thousand. I mean, it's
such a huge scope, and it also depends on your
(24:01):
cover because different health funds offer different rebates, which then
changes what the obstric charges. So it's really really complicated,
and you sometimes have to shop around and talk around
and speak with different people, and you sort of you know,
someone once said it really beautifully. They said, I'm going
to an audition. I'm auditioning my obstetric It's really I
(24:24):
thought it was a beautiful way of looking at it,
because not only do you need to make sure that
this is an obstrition whose feeds you can afford and
who's you know, way of working you're comfortable with, you
also have to make sure that it's a relationship that
you like and it's a person you can get along
with and you don't dread go into appointments and you know,
you don't feel judged or anything like that. So when
(24:44):
you are at your early stages of you know, trying
to fall pregnant or thinking about pregnancy or early pregnancy,
think to yourself, do I prefer a male? Do I
prefer female? Do I like young, fresh, modern, accessible? Do
I prefer old school? You know? Do I want someone
who's handwriting scripts? Do I want someone who's totally free?
(25:05):
All of these things really coming to play, And then
of course there are other things that come into play
beyond your preference. You know, do I have a high
risk pregnancy? Am I carrying twins? Do I want to
see an obstetrician who will deliver vaginally? You know, almost
no matter what. So that's really important to some women.
And then you've got you know, some obstetricians will not
(25:27):
deliver breach babies vaginally, for example, will some obstetricians will
refer a private patient to a public hospital to try
and turn that baby. It's so it's so complicated. There
are so many levels too. But the best thing to
do is talk talk, talk, and just talk to friends,
talk to people, listen to podcasts, do some reading, and
(25:49):
most importantly, audition your obstetrician and make sure that it's
a good fit for you, for your partner, most importantly
for you, but also for your partner as well.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
I actually currently have a breach baby, so it's interesting
to hear that you can.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Actually turn them. I didn't know that. Yeah, doing headstands
and not dumb.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Some babies you can. It's called an ECV and they
basically poke and produce externally in a very very particular's
quite incredible procedure done by very specialized obstetricians, and they
monitor the baby the whole time. They do it in
a one of those tertiary centers, so in a place
where if something goes wrong, if the cord gets kinked
(26:30):
or wraps around babies neck, of course something doesn't go
according to plan, that baby can be delivered straight away.
But when it works, it's really beautiful. It's wonderful, and
you can turn. You know, some babies from a likely
cesarean into a vaginal birth. If that's important for that mum,
then it's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Let's talk about birth plans, because every woman has a
different idea in the head of how they are going
to deliver their baby, and what haveving public cover versus
private cover means for that, and what's the flexibility around that? Like,
if I was a public patient, could I ask for
(27:09):
a cesarean. What are the kind of rules regulations around that.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
That's a really good question. And it's funny because you know,
where I work, private hospital they don't offer water births,
but down the road at a public hospital paying nothing,
they do. So you know, if a water birth is
really important to you, then you have to deliver accordingly
and choose accordingly. There are also private obstecritcians who will
support a home birth if that's important for you, and
(27:36):
then there are those who won't. There are public hospitals
that will support home births and water births, and it's
almost like, you know, the sky's the limit. There are
so many options available to you. You just have to
decide what you'd love in an ideal world. And you
have to remember you've got to when it comes to
birth plans, there are two things that are absolutely paramount
(27:56):
for me, and I tell all women, you've got to
know these two things. Number One, a birth plan is
a plan, it's not concrete. You have to allow for
flexibility because childbirth is incredible. It's magical. It's like the
absolute favorite part of my day, and I'm so glad
(28:19):
that I get to do this as for a living.
But you have to understand that it is so fraught
with danger. You've got great outcomes the vast majority of
the time, but you've also got curveballs and things that
can change in a second and things that can get
scary and two seconds later they're absolutely fine. You just
cannot predict what's going to happen. And if you are
(28:42):
rigid with your birth plan, and if you are absolutely
stubbornly committed to one particular course of action, but the
circumstance removes that as a safe option. You have to
have flexibility in your birth plan. You've got to be
comfortable to quote unquote go with a flow to an extent.
And also, again coming back to that first comment, you've
(29:04):
got to choose an obstetrician who's going to work with you,
who's to you know, who sees the desire you have
for a certain path and does everything they can to
achieve that, but also you know, tells you when something's
simply not an option anymore. And the second thing is,
and I really I think this is absolutely paramount. If
(29:27):
you are putting effort into a birth plan, please put
effort into a mental health care plan once baby arrives.
It is so so important because people put so much
effort into birth plans and then baby arrives and that
birth plan just evaporates instantly, it's gone. And then you
turn around and think, oh god, I never made a
(29:49):
baby plan. What do I do now? And then things
don't go well and you're one of the one in
five moms or one in ten dads who's going through
some post natal adjustment disorder and you don't have a
plan for how to deal with that. Is it is
really really hard.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Absolutely so you would recommend almost booking in to see
a psychiatrist potentially.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Look if you have pre existing anxiety or depression, if
your supports are few and far between, if you live remotely,
you know, if you are basically at risk, or if
you just fear that this is a possibility. You don't
want to hit rock bottom and then find out there's
a nine month wait for your local or your chosen psychiatrists.
(30:36):
You absolutely can book things in advance, and you can
also book people in advance. You know, book your mother
in law, you know, make sure that paternity leave is
organized for your partner. There are so many triggers you
can leave as you can pull, and you can plan
things and hopefully you never have to actually enact them,
but just having them there, because when you are sleep
(30:58):
deprived and if you are suffering from postnatal anything, it's
so hard to think straight and think clearly and think, ah,
this is what I need or that is what I need.
So you want to have all of that organized beforehand.
And also, you know, my role as a pediatrician is
to try to improve baby's sleep, which then results in
(31:21):
better parental sleep. And for me, like the absolute number
one most important thing in the post natal period and
the best protective thing I believe is sleeping well. Okay,
so we can improve baby's sleep and reduce parental anxiety.
That will bode really well. And so all of my
(31:41):
sleep programs, my book, it's all about preparation prior to
baby arriving. So while you are in that beautiful pregnancy
bubble I hope it's a beautiful one and the symptoms
are not too not too unpleasant, but during that time, yes,
get your capsule organized for the car. Yes, get your
nursery set up, but please think about your birth plan,
(32:02):
think about your post nat or plan, and do as
much pre reading and pre studying and watching about how
to actually handle a baby and how to swaddle a
baby and what this kind of pooh means and what
that skin change means, and how to burp a baby
and when to expect, you know, centile changes and all
of this kind of thing. The more you know, the
(32:22):
more you're empowered before baby arrives, the better your journey
will be.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
And I think your Instagram is also such a great resource.
And just even hearing you say that, I was thinking, oh, yeah,
I've seen you talk about this type of pooh and
if it has the mucus in it, I don't even
know what video that was. But I think like following
accounts as well, that are going to be great resources
that are going to give you that quick little video
that's going to be in the back of your mind
(32:47):
where when it potentially happens, you go, oh, I remember this,
let me go to my saved videos.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
And exactly right. And who choose a single source of truth?
That's the other really important thing. Like it's great to
follow different people who've got different opinions, but sometimes you
just want one single source of truth that you trust,
that you follow, you believe in, you've seen works for you,
and that you know. If it's me, great, I'm happy
(33:13):
to help. If it's someone else, that's completely fine. But
when you're jumping between different pieces of advice sometimes and
anyone who's in that space right now or has been there,
it can really do your head in.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
And there's so much advice out there, so I completely
agree without like find something and just stick to it,
I think as well as a new parent, like, there's
just it's so overwhelming. There's so much coming at you,
so much information. It's one of the reasons why I
wanted to do this podcast to all of the things
that I was worried about or wanted to talk about.
(33:49):
It's kind of like a resource as well. Even the
other day, I have virtually no small children or babies
in my family and my friends and put her baby
on me and I was like, I can't hold a baby.
I know I'm thirty two weeks pregnant, but don't give
you a baby. I don't know how to hold one.
(34:10):
So it's just, yeah, it's there's so much. And I
know that this is a very broad question to ask you,
but since you do specialize in sleep, what advice would
you give to first time parents about sleep and lack
of sleep and dealing with baby's sleep.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Be prepared. The one thing that bothers me more than
anything in this space is when parents kind of right
off the first you know, up to six months of
a baby's life, and just they just assume it's going
to be an absolute terror. It's going to be awful.
I'm not going to sleep. It doesn't have to be
that way, you know. No, I don't believe in surviving
(34:49):
the post natal period. It's such a magnificent, beautiful period.
There is so much to love and so much to enjoy.
What a tragedy to just try and hurry it along
so you can get to the end of it. You
really can thrive and not just survive that period. Importantly,
I want parents to know that babies drink more than
just milk, and they drink in every single emotion that
(35:13):
you carry. When you present to a feed, when you
try to calm your baby, when you bathe your baby,
everything you do, like you mentioned before, when you hold
a baby, they feel that they drink it all in.
And therefore, the more relaxed you are, the more confident
you are, the more empowered you are, the better that baby,
(35:35):
the more comfortable that baby's going to feel. Now, having
said that, of course, there are times, and the statistics
don't lie, there are times when, for all the best
of intentions, you are one of the one in five
mums or one in ten dads who unfortunately gets hit
with postnatal depression or anxiety or adjustment disorder now or
(35:59):
postnatal psycho. There are so many awful things that can
befall new parents, mums and dads, and that's why I
talk about the importance of a mental health care plan
and also the importance of prioritizing your care right. So,
when a baby is born, the point I'm trying to
make is everyone focuses on the baby. It's all about
the baby, all about the baby, and mums notoriously put
(36:23):
themselves last, at the very very very bottom of the list,
way down below baby below dad, below the dog, below,
the neighbor, the gardener. Everyone goes with mum, and mum
goes last, and it is completely the wrong way round,
and mums need to understand and dads as well, that
(36:43):
when you put mum first, baby thrives. That's the way
it works, not the other way round. You know, when
you're on an aeroplane and they talk about the safety
announcement and when the oxygen mask drops, you've got to
put it on you before you help children. You cannot
be of use to anyone if you don't look after
yourself first. So know thyself. If you are some needs sleep,
(37:08):
that needs to be your priority. If you are someone
who needs to socialize, that needs to be organized. If
you need exercise, you need to schedule that. In all
of these things you need to consider and then look
after your baby.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
I love that advice and I'm definitely going to be
taking it on board. I think as someone when you
were saying all of those things, my priority from my
life and me functioning in general is eight hours of
constant sleep. I think being pregnant now I'm getting up
like four times in the middle of the night for
the toilet. I'm like, oh, I can't do it anymore.
It's exhausting. And my partner's like, we're about to have
(37:45):
a baby. He's probably going to be awake.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
I ain't seen nothing yet.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
I've seen nothing yet, and I'm trying to like just
bring myself back down to reality and think, Okay, I'm
not going to be having eight hours of full sleep,
but yeah, it's definitely an adjustment, and I think, yeah,
definitely prioritizing those things that you need, even if it's
maybe just a nap in the middle of the day
and someone might come look after the baby. I'm not
(38:11):
really sure because I've never been through it. I'm just
guessing that hopefully that will happen. But I wanted to
ask you actually about the baby's sleep because there's two
different trains of thought that I've heard, and I have
no idea how right either of these are. But when
the baby's born, I've heard that you need to be
feeding the baby every two to three hours. But then
(38:34):
I've had people who have told me that their baby
sleeps all the way through the night, which means that
they're technically not getting up every two to three hours.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Is one right? Is one wrong? Can you just clarify
that from me?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah, I'm not going to love my answer. They're both right.
Every single baby's different and every single mum is different,
and every single formula is different. So there's no rules,
and that's the reason why I never prescribe a routine
under six weeks of age. I talk about a rhythm,
all right, getting into a feeding and sleeping rhythm. So
we are avoiding cluster feeds.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Now.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
First thing is in the first few days when you
are establishing a breast milk supply, if you're a breastfeeding mum,
then everything goes out the window. Everything's okay, everything's possible.
There's no rules, don't stress, no stress at all. You've
just built a baby. You've got nothing to you know,
there's no no one has any right to put any
more pressure on you, okay, And cluster feeding is a
(39:27):
necessity in order to bring milk in. So absolutely anything
goes in the first week of life shortly thereafter, or
if you're formula feeding once or if you're breastfeeding. Once
the supply has been established, then you want to get
into a rhythm where you've got a discrete feed followed
by a discrete non feed, which can be play, nappy change, bathe, sleep,
(39:50):
everything else. This is the kind of mentality I want
people to have. Now, there are some four and a
half kilo babies who are feeding every two hours, and
there are some two and a half kilo babies who
are feeding every four hours, So I mean, get your
head around that, like anything is possible. People often underestimate
(40:12):
what their baby's possible of doing, and people often feed
as a first response to a cry, and that's probably
the most common. I wouldn't say mistake, but it's probably
the most common thing I see that is really easily changed,
and just think to yourself, just have a mental checklist.
Is it possible? You know, I fed my baby at midday,
(40:33):
they're crying at one pm. I've got a good supply,
I feel emptied, so there was definitely a transfer of feed.
So maybe this one pm cry is actually not hunger.
Maybe I didn't win them enough. That's definitely the most common.
Maybe they've filled their nappy, Maybe it's too hot, Maybe
that gorgeous one es our boot's got a really itchy
tag on the back. Maybe they've got exema that's waking them.
(40:54):
There are so many things you can think of, and
further down that list is hunger. And if you've done
some troubleshooting, you might even find that two hours have
passed and then hey, press though, it's feeding time, So
there's lots of different ways around this not a very
clear answer to your question.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
I'm sorry, No, this is also extremely helpful, so taking
it all in, I'm just absorbing all of this information.
So you would say, don't wake a crying baby to feed, I.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Always go to a crying baby. I wouldn't wake a
sleeping baby provided that there's no issues with weight gain
or other issues. You know, you might be given instructions
to wake a sleeping baby because there are concerns regarding weight,
and that's absolutely fine. So there are no rules in
this space, and it's always safest to follow the advice
of your maternal child healthcare nurse, pediatrician or GP.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
When it comes to the public versus private debate, would
you say that there's benefits of one verse the other
When it comes to breastfeeding specifically, you're going.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
To find and you're going to have access to lactation
consultant support both in the public and private space. It's
very hospital dependent, you know, the one the hospital where
I work, for example, has got lactation support seven days
a week, and then extra support should you go home
and want to come back and access it. That's all
(42:27):
included in your stay, you're not paying extra for that,
and then some people choose to engage with a private
lactation consultant. Don't forget also that every midwife is like
a mini lactation consultant, and that's where you can get
most of your advice from because you are, you know,
during a hospital stay, you know, they have eight hour shifts.
You're going to be seeing three different midwives every single day,
(42:51):
and each of those midwives have got different tips and
tricks and experience. Some of them are mum, some of
them are also lactation consultants. You know, there's different types
of training, so you've got fantastic access and you've also
got different resources. So you know, for me, breastfeeding is
such an important part of the newborn journey for so
(43:12):
many families that it took up an enormous part of
my sleep programs and my book, and so I'm working
with LC's every single day, and you know, they really
are magicians when it comes to trying to troubleshoot different
things that are making the breastfeeding journey challenging. And then
of course using formula, mixed feeding or exclusive formula also
(43:36):
completely fine, and so many different options you know so
many different reasons to try to change as well. There's
just a huge amount of information but also a huge
amount of support.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Yep, we've spoke a lot about choosing to go public
versus private, but I don't want to leave out the
women who are choosing to have a home birth or
potentially a water birth at home.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
What are your thought on home birth?
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Again, my answer is skewed because of my experience with
this particular topic. So you know, when I was working
in a tertiary center, we would receive babies of a
complicated homebirth. So of course my experience of homebirths is
you know, they become complicated and then you rush into hospital,
(44:23):
which is never a good thing. Now, I also know
of thousands of babies who are born successfully with magnificent,
beautiful home births. So if that is something that you
want to do, and if you qualify, so that's a really,
really big if. So, for example, you know, there are
(44:44):
hospitals that will support home birth scenarios, but you have
to satisfy certain criteria, you know, like it can't be
your first birth, and it can't be twins, and it
can't be breach, and it can't be complicated in this
way or that way, and all of these difference criteria
you have to meet. You've got to be a certain
distance from a hospital, and you've got to have a
(45:05):
certain qualified person on hand. So there's lots of different
hoops to jump through. But if you're doing it and
are you qualify, you are fully supported. You're fully aware
of all the possibilities. And like I talked about before,
if you're fully aware of what might need to happen
if it doesn't go according to plan, then I'm fully
(45:25):
I mean, I'll never tell someone not to do something.
You know, I'm fully supportive of whatever you want to do.
My job is not to tell you what to do.
It's to tell you to get informed, to make sure
that you know all the pros or the cons, everything
that can go wrong, everything that might be required. And
once you are empowered with all that knowledge, you make
(45:45):
your decision and I'll support you either way.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Doctor Gollie, thank you so much for your time. We
have absolutely loved having you on this episode of Where's
your Bump At. It's been so helpful and I know
that it's going to help so many mums making this
really tough decision. Thank you for your expertise and I
hope you have a great holiday.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Thank you so much, it's been great.
Wanting to have kids is a huge life decision. But
once you're ready to embark on that journey, what do
you actually need to know? This podcast is a community
you never knew you needed from mums and mums to
be We're about to embark on this learning journey together
and it's going to be real. It's going to be
raw and a completely non judgmental space. You're listening to
(00:24):
Where's your Bump hat and this is Ana Macavoy Staples.
I'm going to be interviewing experts in the field so
that all of our burning questions can be answered, from
understanding our cycle to knowing what is the best time
to conceive and so much more. We'll get into the
(00:45):
difference between natural verse c section births, strange pregnancy symptoms
and everything in between. Okay, so today we are joined
by doctor Golly.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Hello, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Thank you for being on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
It's so funny because I was at the Grand Prix
recently in Melbourne and I was talking to Milana Hope
and she was just absolutely raving about you. She was like,
you need to see him when the baby's born.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
He's the best.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
And then funnily enough, she ran into you after we
had that conversation.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
She was like, speak of the devil.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
That was it was very, very funny. It was like
I was told it was like less than an hour
after you'd spoken to her. I literally bumped into it
to walking out. It was bizarre.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
It's so funny how just like things like that seem
to ALIGNE. Yeah, and then in the back of my
head it was meant to happen, and I was Obviously
this podcast has not come out yet, no one knows
about it, but I've been secretly recording episodes, and I
was like, maybe I should get doctor.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Golly on, awesome, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah, let's do this.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I think I really want to have just an open
conversation about public hospitals versus private potentially verse other options
like home births. I think it's a very nuanced conversation,
but just a topic that when you first get pregnant,
it's something that you want to know about. So I
(02:14):
think this is just a great resource for people. So
I want to start by asking you what are the
main differences between public and private hospitals when it comes
to giving birth in Australia.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
It's such a funny question because there are so many differences,
and yet there are so few differences as well, and
every single person, family, couple has a slightly different experience,
and even every family's child, like your subsequent delivery may
be completely different to your first. And you know, it's
(02:48):
quite wild the variability. I've worked in both public and
private in Australia as well as all over Australia, and
I've sort of seen it all.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Probably the thing that makes the biggest difference to most families,
specifically most women, is the choice of person who you're
seeing who is delivering that baby, making of course if
they get there in time. But probably the biggest difference
public private is that in the private sector you are
choosing your obstetrician. You are seeing your obstetrician at every
(03:24):
check up along the way, and then when it's time
for baby to arrive, barring some sort of traffic jam
or you know, your obstrition being away, it's going to
be that person delivering your baby.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah. Absolutely. I actually had a bit.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Of a scare recently and I had to go to
hospital in the middle of the night and I at
the time was thirty one weeks pregnant, and they told me, well,
it doesn't matter. So I'm private. I've chosen to go private,
but I've chosen the embraced program, which we can touch
on a little bit later. And they said, well, since
you're thirty one weeks, you'll go public anyway. So can
(04:01):
you talk us through that, because even if you do
choose to be private, you can end up in the
public system due to Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
It's happening.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
That's a very very good point. There is an element
of control you have over it, and then there's a
bit that you don't as well. So the one thing
about the public system is that that is where you'll
find what we call tertiary level care. So that's the
highest level medical care. And you've got a factor in
two things. You've got a factor in mum's care and
you've also got a factor in baby's care as well.
(04:31):
So if you're talking about a baby arriving at thirty
one weeks, we're talking about prematurity, you want to make
sure that that baby's being delivered as close to a
tertiary center as possible and the safest thing, you know,
if for example, you rocked up at your private hospital
at I don't know, say twenty six weeks and that
(04:51):
baby had to come out, it would be safest to
transport mum to the tertiary hospital and then deliver baby,
although sometimes we don't have that luxury now. The tertiary hospital,
the tertiary center for a baby is a newborn ICU,
and they only exist in the public setting. There's no
such thing as a private newborn ICU. When you sort
(05:12):
of graduate out and your level of care drops to
special care nursery, then there is a private option. But
when it comes to that high level care, when you're
talking about very unwell babies, babies who need emergency surgery,
or very premature babies, then it's going to have to
be it's going to happen have to happen at a
tertiary center.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So for someone listening to this, let's just say they've
just found out they're pregnant, they're very excited, and they
haven't yet made the decision to go public versus private
or whatever option.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
They choose to go.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Is there any difference in the medical care that you're getting, Like,
is someone private getting better medical care or is it
the same?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
No, it's the same. So the level of care is
exactly the same, but of course who's delivering that care changes,
and it's so complicated because most of the doctors who
work in the private hospitals also work in the public hospitals.
That's really common, So you might end up you might
(06:14):
have two women delivering on the same day, one private,
one public, one paying private fees, one paying nothing for
public and they both get delivered with the help of
the same obstetrician. So you know, we hear these stories
all the time. Also, in the public space, you might
be looked after by someone who's training in obstetrics, so
(06:36):
they might not have necessarily a huge amount of experience,
but they are learning, and you know they're being trained
under the supervision and guidance of a more senior obstetrician.
And the same thing happens for your baby. So if
you are delivering in the private sphere, your baby will
be seen by a private pediatrician consultant, whereas if it's
(06:56):
in the public space, a consultant will be available, not
necessarily on site, but available, but your child will be
looked after by those training in pediatrics.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So in the public system, let's talk about the advantages
of being a public patient.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Probably the biggest advantage of going public is that safety
of having tertiary level care if you need it. And
I remember when my wife was pregnant with our first
and I said to our obstetrician, we also elected to
go private, and I said to him, surely you know
(07:35):
we have to deliver at a tertiary center. And if
you think about it, I was one of those trainee pediatricians,
so all I knew was that babies are born with problems.
There's no such thing as a healthy baby, because I
was never called to a healthy baby delivery. So you know,
obviously I knew better, but experience, you know, it throws you.
And I said to the obstetrician, come on, we've got
(07:57):
to deliver at a tertiary center. And he's I don't
know about you, but I'm not planning on you having
a sick baby. And it was just this anxiety that
I had to get over. So what's the benefit of public, Well,
you've got people on site all the time, you've got
tertiary care if you need it, and also you know,
there's the fact that it's not going to cost you
(08:17):
anything out of pocket, which is a huge benefit, especially
in a cost of living crisis.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, I mean the tertiary care is a huge advantage
of going public and would you say that the majority
of the private hospitals don't offer that.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
They don't offer tertiary level care. So there's different nurseries,
which is that medium level care. They have different capacities,
whether it's the capacity of the staff, the nursing staff,
or the capacity of the actual nursery. Could also be space.
If you've got a nursery that's full, you just simply
can't deliver a baby there because there's nowhere for them
(08:53):
to go, or they might be delivered and then transported out,
which is quite a common thing. So you know, it
depends on the level that that nursery is capable of.
So for example, where I work in a private hospital,
we won't have women delivering when they are under thirty
two weeks or when the expected baby's weight is going
(09:15):
to be under two kilograms, just purely from a safety
point of view and looking after that baby. As I said,
the safest place, the safest way to transport a baby
is in the mother's womb. So if you know you're
expecting a small baby, if you know you're expecting a
problem and it's not an emergency berth, it's best to
transfer to a public hospital. And then you know, once
(09:37):
baby has recovered and is doing well and has the
care levels stepped down to nursery level from ICU level,
then often we can transfer them back to that private
hospital if it's closer to home, or if it's the
parent's choice.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Let's pivot to private again. What are the advantages of
going private?
Speaker 2 (09:57):
So probably the biggest advantage, as we talked about, is
able to choose, being able to choose your obstetrician, being
able to choose your pediatrician as well. That's important to
some people. And then there's the experience, and this differs
from every hospital. There are plenty of people who will
say that they've had a better experience in the public space.
And as I said, it's all about your particular experience,
(10:19):
which is completely dependent on the staff, on what happened
medically with you, how long it took you, all so
many different factors. But probably the thing that people like
most about the private space is the choice of obstetrician, pediatrician,
anisthetist as well to a degree. And there's also the
(10:42):
fact that most private hospitals are a little bit nicer
in their design, and you know, the food quality and
all the little things. And for some people those little
things make a big difference. For other people they couldn't
care less. So it's very much knowing what you like,
knowing what's important to you. And also the other thing
to remember is the length of stay. So some people
(11:02):
in a public system will go home really quickly, like
some people within hours of their birth. And if that's
if that's what you want. If people hate being in
hospitals and just want to go home, that's amazing. Other
people want, you know, a full four nights, five days,
you know, no pressure to go home if things are
not going well. And that may be the experience in
(11:24):
a private space, so it tends to be less rushed,
a fewer people, so you know you're going to more
likely to have a private room as opposed to public space.
You might be sharing a room with three other women
and three other babies, potentially more so you have a
high degree of control in the private space, but that
(11:44):
is of course something that you pay for.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, I love what you said about Some people say,
oh my god, I loved my public experience. Some people
say I loved my private experience. But every single woman
is different, every birth story is different, so of course
there's going to be so many differences. And I think
that's why when you are making this decision, it can
be so hard to choose because you're there's so much
(12:09):
information out there. So yeah, it's so good that we're
having this conversation because even now I'm thinking about things
that I hadn't even thought of.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
It is and you know, if I think a lot
of people are unaware of what's available to them, so
you know, talk and that's why I love you know,
podcasts like this are so good because they just give
people information. They you know, you find out things you
didn't know you needed to know, or you didn't know
was important to you. The other thing to make sure
of is that you're having these thoughts, you know, when
(12:38):
you're thinking about becoming pregnant, not when you are pregnant,
because a lot of private health funds will have wait lists,
So if you have to wait twelve months for your
maternity cover to kick in but you are already three
months pregnant, then it's of no benefit and it might
be a little bit of a fight between you and
the health fund. So you need to make these decisions
(12:58):
before you start trying for a baby, because you might
need to consider wait lists.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, that's such a good point.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, I know that everyone always says make sure you
get that private health cover if you're looking to go
private a year in advance. Let's just say you do
get it, like nine months in advance, and then you
accidentally fall pregnant. Can you still then go private? Do
you maybe, like for the first three months, you can't
until you get to that twelve month waiting period, and
(13:26):
then you can go private.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
It tends to differ based on each health fund. Some
health funds will say okay, no problem, others will be
quite strict about it, and then others will say, well,
if baby arrives after you've completed twelve months weight then
that's okay. Remember, health funds are really only coming into
play when it's time to get to hospital, not all
the prenatal care. And also, you know there are some
(13:53):
health funds that will allow you to jump that weight
list if you pay an extra premium to begin with.
Have the conversation with your health fund, see how far
you can push them, and consider all your options in
terms of different health funds if they're not playing.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Obviously, costs and finances is one of the biggest factors
for Australians choosing to go public versus private, and as
you said before, we are living in a cost of
living crisis, so most people opt to go to the
public system. Can we talk about costs and what the
(14:29):
costs are and what the differences are like when you're
going public? Are you paying zero dollars and coming out
with a baby versus however much a private experience costs?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, you are. You're not expected to be paying anything
when you go public. There may be some costs sort
of as you walk out the door in terms of
medication that you might be buying that are not included
or not required during your stay, but by and large
you can expect to be paying zero to very little
money and that's the beauty of of the Australian healthcare system.
(15:01):
Of course, you've got to have a Medicare card in
order to access that. When it comes to private, people
are often quite confused by this because you've got different
fees and they can sometimes come at you from all angles.
So the first to consider is the hospital stay, and
then the next thing to consider are the private doctors
that you are engaging with. So from a hospital state,
(15:24):
most health funds will have an excess for you to
pay and then nothing else. Whether you stay in hospital
for twelve hours or you stay in hospital for twelve months,
it doesn't matter. You pay one single fee and most
will not require you to pay a second excess for
your baby because if a baby's born, well, they aren't
(15:45):
actually admitted to hospital. Now every hospital does this slightly differently,
but the one I work out, the baby's not admitted.
They're called borders, just like your partner who pay for breakfast,
but you're not actually a patient of the hospital. I
love that if the baby is admitted, you don't have
to pay a second excess, and their cover their care
is also paid for two. Now that's your excess, you
(16:08):
pay once and then everything is covered for your hospital stay.
But the doctors involved in your care and your baby's
care will have different fees, so that will be discussed
in your original obstric appointment. When you engage your private obstetrician,
they'll talk about their fees, which will be for the
entire pregnancy and follow up as well. And then if
(16:30):
you have a pediatrician. Some do, some don't. There'll be
separate fees for the pediatrician, And if you have an anthetist,
if you have an epidural, or if you undergo a cesarean,
there'll be separate fees for the anethotist as well. There's
also different ways the private doctors will build your health
fund directly with no out of pocket costs to you.
(16:54):
So there's so many different ways that this can look
and the key is just to ask, because every doctor
does it slightly differently. And you may turn around and say,
you know what, I've got my private obstetrici, but I
don't want to pay for a pediatrician, so I don't
want to engage them, and I do want to have
an epidural, so I'd like to engage in anithetus. So
(17:16):
you know, you've got far more control in the private
space to a degree, as much as you can control
pregnancy and delivery. But that's the important thing that people
love about the private space is just that extra element
of control which is important for some women.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I mentioned before that I have joined the Embraced program,
which is basically maybe I shouldn't describe it and I
should let you describe it, but from my knowledge, it's
when you go private, you choose your you have your
private ob but instead of seeing the obstetrician let's say
ten times, you might see them five times, and then
they're midwives in their rooms five times and it saves
(17:54):
on cost. What do you think about this program? Is
this kind of like the happy medium between in public
versus private?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, there are so many options available and it's wonderful.
It's really wonderful. So you can have you know, midwife
only care in the public system for really low risk,
great easy pregnancies. I've had mums say to me, you know,
I spent such a fortune on private care and you know,
I delivered the baby. The obstrition didn't even get there
(18:23):
in time. It was a total I felt like a
waste of money. I didn't need it. And then they
went public second time round because they felt, you know what,
I carry well, I deliver well, I don't need all
that extra backup. You know. I've also heard people who
do that and then something didn't go a plan and
they really wanted that backup. So there's so many different
ways that you can do this. And you know that
(18:45):
shared care model that you're describing, which is a little
bit midwife lad, a little bit doctor led. It's a
really good balance between the two and if it does
enable you to access this at a lower cost, then
that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Okay, So let's talk about hidden costs, not just in
regards to the delivery, but maybe in the lead up
up to delivering or giving birth.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
I noticed a few. So the first one.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Was the NIPS test was four hundred and fifty dollars,
which I just didn't expect. I thought that was I
thought it was baby becovered a bit more by Medicare,
you know, I had an iron transfusion that was five
hundred dollars. That was after my private healthcare took money
off that. There's all these like little hidden costs. Can
(19:40):
we talk about some of those hidden costs things that
people can expect if they're new to this journey, to
keep an eye out for.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, financial disclosure is really really important in the medical space.
And the only you know, there's a lot of paperwork
you'll be signing. Whether you're public or private, whomever you're engaging,
there's always documents to sign and it's really hard. I mean,
I'm guilty of this. Who reads the fine print? Really,
I think the key is just to talk about it.
(20:09):
And you know, if having discussions about money is uncomfortable
to you, like it is for me, I think you
have to get past it and just once just sit
down and say, you know, medical care aside, I just
don't want surprises. You know, having a baby's really expensive.
Whether you're public or private, it's expensive. There's costs left,
right and center, whether it's you know, new equipment for
(20:32):
the car or a stroller and nappies and whatever it is,
is so much added expense when you delve into the
world of parenthood. You just want to know before you
get there, what is possible, what's likely, and how much
it's going to cost you, but most importantly how much
you're going to spend out of pocket. So we have
these wonderful safety nets in Australia. You've got your private
(20:55):
health fund that will cover the costs of certain different things,
and you've also got the Medicare safety net. So I mean,
I'm no politician, but the best way I got my
head around it is in a calendar year, from the
beginning of January to the end of December, if you
spend a certain amount of money beyond what Medicare pays
(21:15):
for things, then there is this safety net. So as
soon as you reach that threshold, then what Medicare will
do is they will give you more money back from
the cost of for example, private appointments or extra scans,
extra tests, et cetera. So keep an eye out for
that Medicare safety net and when you reach it, a
(21:35):
significantly higher percentage of your final cost rebated back to you.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
That is so interesting. I never knew that, and I'll
definitely be hipping an eye out.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
And it's not a particularly high threshold, like the people.
People who go through private maternity tend to reach that
threshold really really quickly because of the private eb ceterric fees,
so almost all people are over it. It's funny because
I always joke with my rooms that my secretaries are
you know, they're really put to work in December because
(22:07):
so many people want to have an appointment in December
before that safety net resets on the first of January.
So keep an eye out for the day to keep
an eye out for your safety net, and you'll find
that the rebates will be significantly significantly higher.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Love that guys, what will be doing that. Definitely keep
an eye out. Let's talk about obviously we've spoken a
lot about private hospital stays and fees. Can you give
us a rough estimate of how much someone should expect
to pay in Australia, Let's just say for the actual
hospital visit.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
In the private space, most commonly that excesses five hundred dollars,
that's what health funds will charge you. Depends on your premium,
depends on your fund, depends on your cover level. But
most people are looking at about five hundred dollars out
of pocket. And then there are other things that you
might be paying for. But it's so hard to answer
because it's so dependent on which hospital you're at and
(23:05):
which medical team you've got. But by and large, you
know the most common The way to answer that will
probably be the best way to talk about the most
common scenario. You've got your excess, Then you've got your
obstetrician fees, which you know beforehand. You've got your pediatrician
fees if they're involved, and anesthetis fees if they're involved,
(23:25):
and then you've got your pharmacy fees. So if you're
going home, you're getting painkillers or whatever it is that
you've been prescribed. If you're going home with that, then
there'll be an extra cost for that on average.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
How much would someone pay for a private obstetrician.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Ah, that's a great question. You Wow, how long is
a piece of string? I mean there are some private
obstetricians who are charging you know, two three grand. There
are others who are charging ten thousand. I mean, it's
such a huge scope, and it also depends on your
(24:01):
cover because different health funds offer different rebates, which then
changes what the obstric charges. So it's really really complicated,
and you sometimes have to shop around and talk around
and speak with different people, and you sort of you know,
someone once said it really beautifully. They said, I'm going
to an audition. I'm auditioning my obstetric It's really I
(24:24):
thought it was a beautiful way of looking at it,
because not only do you need to make sure that
this is an obstrition whose feeds you can afford and
who's you know, way of working you're comfortable with, you
also have to make sure that it's a relationship that
you like and it's a person you can get along
with and you don't dread go into appointments and you know,
you don't feel judged or anything like that. So when
(24:44):
you are at your early stages of you know, trying
to fall pregnant or thinking about pregnancy or early pregnancy,
think to yourself, do I prefer a male? Do I
prefer female? Do I like young, fresh, modern, accessible? Do
I prefer old school? You know? Do I want someone
who's handwriting scripts? Do I want someone who's totally free?
(25:05):
All of these things really coming to play, And then
of course there are other things that come into play
beyond your preference. You know, do I have a high
risk pregnancy? Am I carrying twins? Do I want to
see an obstetrician who will deliver vaginally? You know, almost
no matter what. So that's really important to some women.
And then you've got you know, some obstetricians will not
(25:27):
deliver breach babies vaginally, for example, will some obstetricians will
refer a private patient to a public hospital to try
and turn that baby. It's so it's so complicated. There
are so many levels too. But the best thing to
do is talk talk, talk, and just talk to friends,
talk to people, listen to podcasts, do some reading, and
(25:49):
most importantly, audition your obstetrician and make sure that it's
a good fit for you, for your partner, most importantly
for you, but also for your partner as well.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
I actually currently have a breach baby, so it's interesting
to hear that you can.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Actually turn them. I didn't know that. Yeah, doing headstands
and not dumb.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Some babies you can. It's called an ECV and they
basically poke and produce externally in a very very particular's
quite incredible procedure done by very specialized obstetricians, and they
monitor the baby the whole time. They do it in
a one of those tertiary centers, so in a place
where if something goes wrong, if the cord gets kinked
(26:30):
or wraps around babies neck, of course something doesn't go
according to plan, that baby can be delivered straight away.
But when it works, it's really beautiful. It's wonderful, and
you can turn. You know, some babies from a likely
cesarean into a vaginal birth. If that's important for that mum,
then it's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Let's talk about birth plans, because every woman has a
different idea in the head of how they are going
to deliver their baby, and what haveving public cover versus
private cover means for that, and what's the flexibility around that? Like,
if I was a public patient, could I ask for
(27:09):
a cesarean. What are the kind of rules regulations around that.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
That's a really good question. And it's funny because you know,
where I work, private hospital they don't offer water births,
but down the road at a public hospital paying nothing,
they do. So you know, if a water birth is
really important to you, then you have to deliver accordingly
and choose accordingly. There are also private obstecritcians who will
support a home birth if that's important for you, and
(27:36):
then there are those who won't. There are public hospitals
that will support home births and water births, and it's
almost like, you know, the sky's the limit. There are
so many options available to you. You just have to
decide what you'd love in an ideal world. And you
have to remember you've got to when it comes to
birth plans, there are two things that are absolutely paramount
(27:56):
for me, and I tell all women, you've got to
know these two things. Number One, a birth plan is
a plan, it's not concrete. You have to allow for
flexibility because childbirth is incredible. It's magical. It's like the
absolute favorite part of my day, and I'm so glad
(28:19):
that I get to do this as for a living.
But you have to understand that it is so fraught
with danger. You've got great outcomes the vast majority of
the time, but you've also got curveballs and things that
can change in a second and things that can get
scary and two seconds later they're absolutely fine. You just
cannot predict what's going to happen. And if you are
(28:42):
rigid with your birth plan, and if you are absolutely
stubbornly committed to one particular course of action, but the
circumstance removes that as a safe option. You have to
have flexibility in your birth plan. You've got to be
comfortable to quote unquote go with a flow to an extent.
And also, again coming back to that first comment, you've
(29:04):
got to choose an obstetrician who's going to work with you,
who's to you know, who sees the desire you have
for a certain path and does everything they can to
achieve that, but also you know, tells you when something's
simply not an option anymore. And the second thing is,
and I really I think this is absolutely paramount. If
(29:27):
you are putting effort into a birth plan, please put
effort into a mental health care plan once baby arrives.
It is so so important because people put so much
effort into birth plans and then baby arrives and that
birth plan just evaporates instantly, it's gone. And then you
turn around and think, oh god, I never made a
(29:49):
baby plan. What do I do now? And then things
don't go well and you're one of the one in
five moms or one in ten dads who's going through
some post natal adjustment disorder and you don't have a
plan for how to deal with that. Is it is
really really hard.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Absolutely so you would recommend almost booking in to see
a psychiatrist potentially.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Look if you have pre existing anxiety or depression, if
your supports are few and far between, if you live remotely,
you know, if you are basically at risk, or if
you just fear that this is a possibility. You don't
want to hit rock bottom and then find out there's
a nine month wait for your local or your chosen psychiatrists.
(30:36):
You absolutely can book things in advance, and you can
also book people in advance. You know, book your mother
in law, you know, make sure that paternity leave is
organized for your partner. There are so many triggers you
can leave as you can pull, and you can plan
things and hopefully you never have to actually enact them,
but just having them there, because when you are sleep
(30:58):
deprived and if you are suffering from postnatal anything, it's
so hard to think straight and think clearly and think, ah,
this is what I need or that is what I need.
So you want to have all of that organized beforehand.
And also, you know, my role as a pediatrician is
to try to improve baby's sleep, which then results in
(31:21):
better parental sleep. And for me, like the absolute number
one most important thing in the post natal period and
the best protective thing I believe is sleeping well. Okay,
so we can improve baby's sleep and reduce parental anxiety.
That will bode really well. And so all of my
(31:41):
sleep programs, my book, it's all about preparation prior to
baby arriving. So while you are in that beautiful pregnancy
bubble I hope it's a beautiful one and the symptoms
are not too not too unpleasant, but during that time, yes,
get your capsule organized for the car. Yes, get your
nursery set up, but please think about your birth plan,
(32:02):
think about your post nat or plan, and do as
much pre reading and pre studying and watching about how
to actually handle a baby and how to swaddle a
baby and what this kind of pooh means and what
that skin change means, and how to burp a baby
and when to expect, you know, centile changes and all
of this kind of thing. The more you know, the
(32:22):
more you're empowered before baby arrives, the better your journey
will be.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
And I think your Instagram is also such a great resource.
And just even hearing you say that, I was thinking, oh, yeah,
I've seen you talk about this type of pooh and
if it has the mucus in it, I don't even
know what video that was. But I think like following
accounts as well, that are going to be great resources
that are going to give you that quick little video
that's going to be in the back of your mind
(32:47):
where when it potentially happens, you go, oh, I remember this,
let me go to my saved videos.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
And exactly right. And who choose a single source of truth?
That's the other really important thing. Like it's great to
follow different people who've got different opinions, but sometimes you
just want one single source of truth that you trust,
that you follow, you believe in, you've seen works for you,
and that you know. If it's me, great, I'm happy
(33:13):
to help. If it's someone else, that's completely fine. But
when you're jumping between different pieces of advice sometimes and
anyone who's in that space right now or has been there,
it can really do your head in.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
And there's so much advice out there, so I completely
agree without like find something and just stick to it,
I think as well as a new parent, like, there's
just it's so overwhelming. There's so much coming at you,
so much information. It's one of the reasons why I
wanted to do this podcast to all of the things
that I was worried about or wanted to talk about.
(33:49):
It's kind of like a resource as well. Even the
other day, I have virtually no small children or babies
in my family and my friends and put her baby
on me and I was like, I can't hold a baby.
I know I'm thirty two weeks pregnant, but don't give
you a baby. I don't know how to hold one.
(34:10):
So it's just, yeah, it's there's so much. And I
know that this is a very broad question to ask you,
but since you do specialize in sleep, what advice would
you give to first time parents about sleep and lack
of sleep and dealing with baby's sleep.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Be prepared. The one thing that bothers me more than
anything in this space is when parents kind of right
off the first you know, up to six months of
a baby's life, and just they just assume it's going
to be an absolute terror. It's going to be awful.
I'm not going to sleep. It doesn't have to be
that way, you know. No, I don't believe in surviving
(34:49):
the post natal period. It's such a magnificent, beautiful period.
There is so much to love and so much to enjoy.
What a tragedy to just try and hurry it along
so you can get to the end of it. You
really can thrive and not just survive that period. Importantly,
I want parents to know that babies drink more than
just milk, and they drink in every single emotion that
(35:13):
you carry. When you present to a feed, when you
try to calm your baby, when you bathe your baby,
everything you do, like you mentioned before, when you hold
a baby, they feel that they drink it all in.
And therefore, the more relaxed you are, the more confident
you are, the more empowered you are, the better that baby,
(35:35):
the more comfortable that baby's going to feel. Now, having
said that, of course, there are times, and the statistics
don't lie, there are times when, for all the best
of intentions, you are one of the one in five
mums or one in ten dads who unfortunately gets hit
with postnatal depression or anxiety or adjustment disorder now or
(35:59):
postnatal psycho. There are so many awful things that can
befall new parents, mums and dads, and that's why I
talk about the importance of a mental health care plan
and also the importance of prioritizing your care right. So,
when a baby is born, the point I'm trying to
make is everyone focuses on the baby. It's all about
the baby, all about the baby, and mums notoriously put
(36:23):
themselves last, at the very very very bottom of the list,
way down below baby below dad, below the dog, below,
the neighbor, the gardener. Everyone goes with mum, and mum
goes last, and it is completely the wrong way round,
and mums need to understand and dads as well, that
(36:43):
when you put mum first, baby thrives. That's the way
it works, not the other way round. You know, when
you're on an aeroplane and they talk about the safety
announcement and when the oxygen mask drops, you've got to
put it on you before you help children. You cannot
be of use to anyone if you don't look after
yourself first. So know thyself. If you are some needs sleep,
(37:08):
that needs to be your priority. If you are someone
who needs to socialize, that needs to be organized. If
you need exercise, you need to schedule that. In all
of these things you need to consider and then look
after your baby.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
I love that advice and I'm definitely going to be
taking it on board. I think as someone when you
were saying all of those things, my priority from my
life and me functioning in general is eight hours of
constant sleep. I think being pregnant now I'm getting up
like four times in the middle of the night for
the toilet. I'm like, oh, I can't do it anymore.
It's exhausting. And my partner's like, we're about to have
(37:45):
a baby. He's probably going to be awake.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
I ain't seen nothing yet.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
I've seen nothing yet, and I'm trying to like just
bring myself back down to reality and think, Okay, I'm
not going to be having eight hours of full sleep,
but yeah, it's definitely an adjustment, and I think, yeah,
definitely prioritizing those things that you need, even if it's
maybe just a nap in the middle of the day
and someone might come look after the baby. I'm not
(38:11):
really sure because I've never been through it. I'm just
guessing that hopefully that will happen. But I wanted to
ask you actually about the baby's sleep because there's two
different trains of thought that I've heard, and I have
no idea how right either of these are. But when
the baby's born, I've heard that you need to be
feeding the baby every two to three hours. But then
(38:34):
I've had people who have told me that their baby
sleeps all the way through the night, which means that
they're technically not getting up every two to three hours.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Is one right? Is one wrong? Can you just clarify
that from me?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah, I'm not going to love my answer. They're both right.
Every single baby's different and every single mum is different,
and every single formula is different. So there's no rules,
and that's the reason why I never prescribe a routine
under six weeks of age. I talk about a rhythm,
all right, getting into a feeding and sleeping rhythm. So
we are avoiding cluster feeds.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Now.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
First thing is in the first few days when you
are establishing a breast milk supply, if you're a breastfeeding mum,
then everything goes out the window. Everything's okay, everything's possible.
There's no rules, don't stress, no stress at all. You've
just built a baby. You've got nothing to you know,
there's no no one has any right to put any
more pressure on you, okay, And cluster feeding is a
(39:27):
necessity in order to bring milk in. So absolutely anything
goes in the first week of life shortly thereafter, or
if you're formula feeding once or if you're breastfeeding. Once
the supply has been established, then you want to get
into a rhythm where you've got a discrete feed followed
by a discrete non feed, which can be play, nappy change, bathe, sleep,
(39:50):
everything else. This is the kind of mentality I want
people to have. Now, there are some four and a
half kilo babies who are feeding every two hours, and
there are some two and a half kilo babies who
are feeding every four hours, So I mean, get your
head around that, like anything is possible. People often underestimate
(40:12):
what their baby's possible of doing, and people often feed
as a first response to a cry, and that's probably
the most common. I wouldn't say mistake, but it's probably
the most common thing I see that is really easily changed,
and just think to yourself, just have a mental checklist.
Is it possible? You know, I fed my baby at midday,
(40:33):
they're crying at one pm. I've got a good supply,
I feel emptied, so there was definitely a transfer of feed.
So maybe this one pm cry is actually not hunger.
Maybe I didn't win them enough. That's definitely the most common.
Maybe they've filled their nappy, Maybe it's too hot, Maybe
that gorgeous one es our boot's got a really itchy
tag on the back. Maybe they've got exema that's waking them.
(40:54):
There are so many things you can think of, and
further down that list is hunger. And if you've done
some troubleshooting, you might even find that two hours have
passed and then hey, press though, it's feeding time, So
there's lots of different ways around this not a very
clear answer to your question.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
I'm sorry, No, this is also extremely helpful, so taking
it all in, I'm just absorbing all of this information.
So you would say, don't wake a crying baby to feed, I.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Always go to a crying baby. I wouldn't wake a
sleeping baby provided that there's no issues with weight gain
or other issues. You know, you might be given instructions
to wake a sleeping baby because there are concerns regarding weight,
and that's absolutely fine. So there are no rules in
this space, and it's always safest to follow the advice
of your maternal child healthcare nurse, pediatrician or GP.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
When it comes to the public versus private debate, would
you say that there's benefits of one verse the other
When it comes to breastfeeding specifically, you're going.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
To find and you're going to have access to lactation
consultant support both in the public and private space. It's
very hospital dependent, you know, the one the hospital where
I work, for example, has got lactation support seven days
a week, and then extra support should you go home
and want to come back and access it. That's all
(42:27):
included in your stay, you're not paying extra for that,
and then some people choose to engage with a private
lactation consultant. Don't forget also that every midwife is like
a mini lactation consultant, and that's where you can get
most of your advice from because you are, you know,
during a hospital stay, you know, they have eight hour shifts.
You're going to be seeing three different midwives every single day,
(42:51):
and each of those midwives have got different tips and
tricks and experience. Some of them are mum, some of
them are also lactation consultants. You know, there's different types
of training, so you've got fantastic access and you've also
got different resources. So you know, for me, breastfeeding is
such an important part of the newborn journey for so
(43:12):
many families that it took up an enormous part of
my sleep programs and my book, and so I'm working
with LC's every single day, and you know, they really
are magicians when it comes to trying to troubleshoot different
things that are making the breastfeeding journey challenging. And then
of course using formula, mixed feeding or exclusive formula also
(43:36):
completely fine, and so many different options you know so
many different reasons to try to change as well. There's
just a huge amount of information but also a huge
amount of support.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Yep, we've spoke a lot about choosing to go public
versus private, but I don't want to leave out the
women who are choosing to have a home birth or
potentially a water birth at home.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
What are your thought on home birth?
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Again, my answer is skewed because of my experience with
this particular topic. So you know, when I was working
in a tertiary center, we would receive babies of a
complicated homebirth. So of course my experience of homebirths is
you know, they become complicated and then you rush into hospital,
(44:23):
which is never a good thing. Now, I also know
of thousands of babies who are born successfully with magnificent,
beautiful home births. So if that is something that you
want to do, and if you qualify, so that's a really,
really big if. So, for example, you know, there are
(44:44):
hospitals that will support home birth scenarios, but you have
to satisfy certain criteria, you know, like it can't be
your first birth, and it can't be twins, and it
can't be breach, and it can't be complicated in this
way or that way, and all of these difference criteria
you have to meet. You've got to be a certain
distance from a hospital, and you've got to have a
(45:05):
certain qualified person on hand. So there's lots of different
hoops to jump through. But if you're doing it and
are you qualify, you are fully supported. You're fully aware
of all the possibilities. And like I talked about before,
if you're fully aware of what might need to happen
if it doesn't go according to plan, then I'm fully
(45:25):
I mean, I'll never tell someone not to do something.
You know, I'm fully supportive of whatever you want to do.
My job is not to tell you what to do.
It's to tell you to get informed, to make sure
that you know all the pros or the cons, everything
that can go wrong, everything that might be required. And
once you are empowered with all that knowledge, you make
(45:45):
your decision and I'll support you either way.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Doctor Gollie, thank you so much for your time. We
have absolutely loved having you on this episode of Where's
your Bump At. It's been so helpful and I know
that it's going to help so many mums making this
really tough decision. Thank you for your expertise and I
hope you have a great holiday.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Thank you so much, it's been great.
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