December 2, 2024 • 47 mins
We are so excited to address the topic of parenting on today’s show. We are welcoming 2 couples to the show today to discuss the way their own Enneagram types influence their children. Welcome Libby (8) and Tyler (3) Cole as well as Toya (4) and Melvin (5) Poplar to the show to discuss their uniques struggles with parenting and how parenting can be a sanctifying gift.
Connect with our guests below
Libby Cole:
www.expandcandc.com
www.instagram.com/enneagramtoexpand
Toya Poplar:
Website - https://poplarartproductions.wixsite.com/toyaspeaks
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/toyapoplar/
We have many more amazing Enneagram for Moms resources at www.enneagramformoms.com.
FREE Enneagram resources here: https://www.yourenneagramcoach.com/podcastresources
Find an Enneagram Coach - https://myenneagramcoach.com/
Become an Enneagram Coach Course - https://www.yourenneagramcoach.com/bec
#Enneagram #PersonalityTypes #EnneagramCoach
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Beth (00:00):
I think you would agree with me that there is no one
size fits all approach toparenting, right?
Every mom and every dad parentsdifferently.
I mean, maybe you're the type ofmom or dad who shows up with
boundless optimism and burst ofcreativity, or maybe you're the
anchor of the family withunwavering loyalty and
(00:21):
impressive patience.
But you might be the parent whoconfidently guides your family
with sage wisdom.
Or maybe the parent who isdeeply in touch with their
feelings and their child'sfeelings.
Now you may be one of theseparents and still you feel lost,
uncertain, or just trying tosurvive.
(00:41):
The struggles we face as momsand dads and with ourselves and
our children, it's as diverse asour own personalities, right?
Well, that's why the Enneagramis a game changing tool and
applying it to parenthood.
Well, hey everyone, I'm BethMcCord, and this is your
Enneagram Coach, the podcast.
And I wanted to take you back intime into episode 83, because I
(01:05):
wanted you to hear from twocouples that have used the
Enneagram in their own parentingand how it's been a game changer
for them.
And so we not only wanted toshare a little bit more of our
perspective, but we wanted tobring in some people who have
been using the Enneagram.
in their parenting style alongwith their spouses.
And so we have some dear friendswith us that are going to help
(01:28):
navigate the way.
So we have a certified Enneagramcoach through YEC, Libby Cole
and her husband, Tyler.
Jeff (01:37):
That's right.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us.
Um, tell us a little bit moreabout yourself.
So tell us about your Enneagramtypes, how long you've been
married, and then tell us alittle bit about your kids.
Libby (01:49):
Sure.
So we are going on 13 years ofmarriage this December and
congratulations.
That's pretty nice.
Thank you.
And we were together for fiveyears before that, so ever since
we were babies ourselves.
Um, but I am an Enneagram typeeight and I am a full-time
(02:11):
Enneagram coach, thanks to YEC.
Yay.
Tyler (02:15):
Oh, that's awesome, Phil.
I'm Tyler.
I'm a type 3, um, you know,learn that obviously when Libby
became a Enneagram coach and,um, I'm a nurse practitioner.
Libby (02:28):
And we have 2 kids, um, and I know you all can't see
this out in the podcast world,but Tyler is a redhead and we
were blessed with 2 redheadedchildren also.
So we have, I know I amoutnumbered because I am not a
redhead, but we have a sevenyear old little boy named
Whitten, and we have a five yearold little girl named Ellison.
Jeff (02:49):
That's great to hear that you guys are in the mix of it as
parents.
Uh, two kids, that's, that is sofun and so awesome.
Uh, how long have you known yourEnneagram types?
How long have you beeninterested in the Enneagram?
Libby (03:03):
We've really been working with it and really practicing
the growth of it for a littleover a year now.
So we're still early on in it.
We're still learning andgrowing, but have really been
incorporating it for a littleover a year.
Jeff (03:20):
Now one of the things that happens when people find their
Enneagram type, uh, there'stypically two questions that
come up next one What is myspouse?
Or a significant person in mylife whether it be a friend or a
parent and then number two, whatare my kids?
It was that similar for youguys?
Libby (03:40):
It was, and interestingly enough, our seven year old has
really taken a shine to it.
And so he has typed himself andhe also likes to think about all
the other types.
And, um, he actually just tookover my Instagram account for
this series because he loves theEnneagram so much also.
Jeff (03:59):
Okay.
Now please, what's yourInstagram handle?
Because I'm sure everyone wouldlove to see a seven year old.
Particularly a redhead, if Iunderstand it correctly, wax
eloquently on the Enneagram.
Libby (04:11):
Yeah, my handle is at Enneagram to expand because my
company is expand coaching andconsulting.
Jeff (04:20):
Enneagram to expand.
Libby (04:21):
And he has done real, For all of the texts and about how
they play video.
There we go That
Jeff (04:28):
is excellent.
That is so awesome Tell me thiswhat has been one of the
insights that you've gained intoyour not just Your kids and
their personality types, but howyou parent how what insights has
the enneagram given you as tohow you parent?
Tyler (04:47):
Um, so for me being a type three Hey It was a big
realization to know that, youknow, as a achiever, you know, I
have high expectations of myselfand then others.
Also, um, and so it was reallyeye opening to see how that can
translate into my kids and howthey don't.
(05:09):
you know, need to have that onthem all the time.
Um, so, you know, I have to bemindful of that and just try not
to be so hard on them.
Jeff (05:18):
You know, Tyler, I was just talking with one of my dear
friends.
Matter of fact, he's the one whooriginally gave us Richard
Roar's book on the Enneagram in2001, but he's visiting with us.
And, uh, we were just talking,um, now that we have young adult
children, uh, anytime they makea mistake, we just automatically
assume it's because of us.
(05:40):
And, and he's, you know, myfriend made a comment.
He's, uh, another mentor of hissaid that, you know, your, your
kids can't save you.
Um, and I thought, Oh, that issuch a provocative question for
some statement to someone.
How does it ever feel like thatwhen your kids fail, that
somehow that relates to yourtype as a three.
Tyler (06:02):
Yeah, definitely.
So, I feel like, you know,succeeding in school is always
really important to me.
And so therefore, you know, Ikind of expect that or want that
for them as well.
Um, sports also really difficultto watch because, you know,
obviously you kind of want themto be the best win.
(06:23):
Not always.
Right.
Beth (06:25):
Get with them all.
That is great.
Jeff (06:27):
I mean, that is, isn't that one of the interesting
things?
Like I, one of my favoriteparenting books was by Dan
Allender on how children raiseparents and that our children
are a gift to us for somethinglearning about ourselves.
And so, I mean, what is thatlike for you to seeing, I have
all these values andexpectations and desires and my,
(06:51):
God's going to use it in my lifeto help me to become a better
man.
Tyler (06:54):
I mean, now that I kind of can, you know, relate to
that, it is eye opening.
And I just, you know, tried toremind myself to be grateful for
them and my family and, youknow, just use that, like you
said, like as a kind of warningcall, I guess.
Now,
Jeff (07:12):
Libby, what about you?
What insights have yourwonderful children given you
about being an eight?
Libby (07:20):
Right.
Um, well, Good learning aboutparenting and the any of them
together, the words that come upfor an 8 are demanding,
controlling, intimidating.
I love the tone that you'resaying there.
That's awesome.
Well, it was kind of like asucker punch to me.
You know, I felt reallyconvicted by those words because
(07:42):
I realized.
A, that they were true.
Um, and also that it wassomething that I wanted to try
to work on.
So once that was brought beforeme, I decided I needed to set
out to kind of move away fromthose tendencies.
Um, and I know I don't get itright all the time.
Um, but I think with anythingwith the Enneagram or any self
(08:04):
improvement, you know, beingmindful, being intentional about
it, That's going to help youmove into a healthier place.
And I think,
Beth (08:11):
you know, the, the biggest thing I've seen since our kids
are now 23 and 21, what I'veseen the most is it's not that
kids want you to get it rightand be perfect.
Well, okay, let me take thatback.
Sure.
They would love that.
But I think we all are inreality and we know on this side
of heaven, that's not going tohappen.
What they're really looking foris us, Uh, to own our own stuff
(08:34):
and to apologize, like a realapology that just means the
world like, um, a, I did this B.
I know it hurt you and see, willyou forgive me?
And is there anything I can doto restore that changes the
game?
Because so many times kidsbelieve it was their fault when
a lot of times.
(08:55):
It's on us.
You know, I know a lot of timesmy kids really didn't do
anything, but I was frustratedor stressed about something
else.
And I reacted through my ninetype and they got, you know, the
bad and the sick.
Now, sometimes the kids, they dotheir stuff, but I'm still
responsible for how I react tothem.
Even if they're doing somethingthat is not.
Um, correct.
(09:15):
And so with that, I'm justreally so thankful to hear how
the Enneagram has just broughtyou guys so much awareness that
you can enter into thatconversation.
And I know for Jeff and I, and Ilove to hear from you guys too,
is that when we talk about ourtypes and how we're parenting
one, just kind of just talkingabout it and being aware, but
also.
(09:35):
You know, helping each other tosee where we're weak, um, and
also, but where we shine hasbeen really beneficial.
How has, uh, that been helpfulfor you guys to cheer each other
on?
Like, Hey, you, you're amazingas, as a parent, when you do
this, but also how can you guys,um, help each other, not call
each other out in your weaknessas in shame and condemnation,
(09:56):
but in a way of encouraging themto grow.
What has that been like for youguys?
Libby (10:01):
Yeah, I'll jump in just because you were talking about
the apologies, Beth, and I thinkthat that's 1 of the places that
I struggle as an 8, because asyou're saying that, I hear
vulnerability vulnerability, andthat is always hard.
Right?
And so sometimes I catch myselfalmost.
dismissing their emotions andkind of telling them, just get
over it or, you know, stopcrying.
(10:23):
And I have to stop myself andthink, no, we need to identify
those emotions.
We need to talk about it and letthem feel what they're feeling
instead of just telling them todry it up and move on.
And I think that that waspartially my lack of
vulnerability and being in thatspace.
space with them, and I don'twant to encourage them to not
(10:44):
show that vulnerabilitythemselves.
Beth (10:47):
It's true.
The more that we are vulnerableand transparent around our kids
about what we're learning andgrowing, the more that they're
going to have emotionalintelligence because they're
seeing it happen in front ofthem.
Now they may not be able to doit.
Themselves right away.
But over time, you're going tosee that they're going to have
the same understanding ofvocabulary that you
demonstrated, just likeeverything that we do, you know,
(11:08):
like whatever our kids arewonderful interpreter, wonderful
observers, but terribleinterpreters.
And so we want them, we want tohelp them to not only observe
what's going on, but how tointerpret it.
So, and then what you'reprobably going to be able to do
because you're an Enneagramcoach now is to help them to
nuance their heart so that theycan apologize.
(11:30):
More specifically, according towhat what's happening for them
versus just a blanket old.
I'm sorry, you know, well, okay,that's great.
But what are you sorry for?
Are you fully aware of what thisis or what, how it's impacting
your brother or your sister orus?
Um, but if we don't demonstrateit first, they're going to feel
(11:50):
on the defensive.
But if we can showvulnerability, um, because we
know that we're safe in Christ.
Jeff (11:56):
Um, what's that been like to pursue your own growth,
recognizing your weaknesses, uh,but to do so in front of your
kids?
Tyler (12:13):
Yeah, so I love this.
I mean, it
Jeff (12:18):
really is a fun personality tool, and it's great
when you first entered it.
And then when you start to useit, you're like, Oh, wait a
minute.
This is dealing with core issuesin my life.
So, yeah,
Tyler (12:30):
I mean, definitely what hits home with me is, I work a
lot.
I buried myself in work.
Um, I, you know, I hold a fulltime job to part time jobs.
Just, you know, it's justsomething I do, you know, um,
and so being an immigrant 3, itreally was eye opening to me to
(12:55):
realize, like.
I guess why I do it, obviously,but then to also recognize when
I'm doing it too much and it'screating a problem, you know,
especially with family,especially with kids.
Um, so I have to really findmyself being intentional about
that.
So 1 thing that we started, youknow, was it'll work Saturday.
(13:17):
So, basically, I do nothing onSaturdays, except for a family
time.
It's set aside.
So, Helps me fully focus on, youknow, my kids, um,
Beth (13:28):
They're going to feel really cherished and loved and
focused on in those Saturdays.
They can look forward to, causethey're busy too with their life
on the, in the, during theweeks, but to know that they've
got that time with dad, itreally is.
Um, super special.
Jeff (13:44):
Well, and this is one of the beauties that not only
marriage does it provides forus, but our kids provide us.
It's almost like a thermostat ofwhat's happening in our own
heart.
Uh, they're definitely therecipients of our unhealthy
patterns of our type.
Um, you know, Beth talks a lotabout the blind spot path.
It's the number that we go tofor those relationships that we
(14:08):
are the closest to.
Um, Transcribed by https (14:09):
otter.
ai And oftentimes when I'mworking something out in my
interior world, it comes outsideways towards Beth or it
comes out sideways towards thekids.
If I'm able to model whathumility and vulnerability look
like and being a recipient ofgrace, giving myself grace, but
also, uh, focusing my attention.
(14:31):
To grow that becomes a model forour kids I mean how many of us
would love just to hear ourparents admit to their mistakes
like just say you're sorryThat's all I'm asking for at
this point but can you imaginewhat it would have been like
that I This is a pattern for howI relate to you and I'm sorry
about that and I want to improveon that man I mean that was just
(14:53):
That would sound like a miracle.
Beth (14:55):
And I think the great thing is that the Enneagram lets
us know specifically what we'regoing to struggle with.
And that's what you guys werejust kind of saying this as a,
Hey, I hear, I see these wordsand yes, that's me.
But we also don't want to losesight on where we're so strong
in our personality, like how wereflect Christ in a unique way.
Um, so talk about that.
(15:15):
What are some really likeincredible attributes that you
bring as a parent to your kids?
Libby (15:22):
Um, well, as an eight, I am fiercely supportive of them.
I mean, I will support them,protect them, provide for them,
you know?
And so I really, they know thatI am there no matter what, like
I am their biggest cheerleaderand I also really want them to
be their own people.
I want them to takeresponsibility.
I want them to be strongindividuals.
(15:44):
And so, you know, I'm helping tofoster an environment where they
can do that.
Um, I am very structured, and soI think that, you know, that is
good for Children, I believe, tohave some structure and to know
that they have that stabilityand security.
Um, but I just love watchingthem thrive.
(16:05):
Um, and our son, I don't think Isaid earlier, he thinks he's a
one, um, and he's seven.
So I understand fully that thatis still developing.
He's still exploring that that'swhat he relates to the match the
most.
And so I really try to, um, youknow, speak affirmations over
him and tell him that he isloved and, you know, make sure
that.
That that inner critic doesn'tget too much of him and, um,
(16:25):
that even when he makes mistakesor things happen, that he is
still loved.
And so, you know, we've beenreally mindful that with that,
we think our 5 year old might bea 7 or an 8.
We'll see, um, she's, she'spretty wild and fun and out
there so far, but she's still 5.
Um, so we try to just, you know,have fun with her and love on
her, but I do think.
(16:46):
You know that eight protectorProvider really comes in big
with me as like the mom.
I mean you you brought
Jeff (16:53):
up one of the significant things of the enneagram Is the
idea that your kids are adifferent type than you?
And they need different thingsthan you do as parents and they
need different things
Beth (17:04):
From each other.
That's right.
Yes,
Jeff (17:07):
and so to to to realize that That your type one child is
going to wrestle with an innercritic That there there's
divided loyalties.
I I know my mom loves me, but Istill feel like i'm a failure
It's very difficult, but asparents, to be able to
emotionally coach your children,not according to what you want
(17:29):
them to be or what, um, what youthink should happen, but
according to their Enneagramtype is revolutionary for kids
to think that, yeah, my parentssaw me, they understood me.
Uh, well, Tyler, what about you?
What is it, what's somethingthat as a three that you bring
to your parenting that is justamazing?
Thank you.
I mean, it's all amazing.
(17:50):
I mean, you're, you're, you'rekilling it.
So thank you.
Thank you
Tyler (17:55):
Um, so I think as a three definitely, I think it's that I
set a strong foundation on work,eth work ethic.
Um, you know, I really feel likeit's important to succeed and to
be able to, um.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
I'm looking for, like, uh, yeah,I mean, yeah, but, you know, you
(18:17):
put in the work to be able toget what you want.
You know, you have a goal youput in the work towards that.
Um, and then, you know, the funthing that I think is cool is as
a 3, we always know the latesttrends.
So, you know.
I always have the coolest stuff.
Um, clothes, you know, all thatstuff.
(18:41):
Our son actually, when he was inpreschool, won best dressed.
Yes! I love it.
Let's be
Jeff (18:46):
honest, Tyler, you won.
Libby (18:53):
He was cute in his tiny polo outfit, you know, and
Jeff (18:56):
he
Libby (18:57):
won a superlative for it, so there you go.
Jeff (19:01):
I don't think I've ever won a
Beth (19:06):
superlative.
This is why I love talking aboutthese things, because it's so
opposite of who Jeff and I areas parents.
And that's not a good, right,bad, you know, thing it's, it is
what it is.
You know, we had friends thatare two type nines, uh, they're
a married couple and they wereon our team and they were
talking about how they parenttheir kids and pray for them at
(19:28):
night.
Yeah.
You know, we pray that our kidswill have empathy and gentleness
and kindness and our type eight,uh, event planner.
There she goes.
What?
Oh, man,
Jeff (19:40):
I
Beth (19:41):
pray that they're a warrior and that they're no be,
no, all started laughing becausethat, you know, God has called
us to reflect him in, in hisglory and the way he has given
us attributes, um, that reflecthim.
But we definitely have to bemindful of when those derail and
get misaligned and to own thoseparts of us to ask for
(20:03):
forgiveness, um, so that we can.
And then steward our kids andhow God has created them.
And that can be so challengingwhen they're very different than
us.
And actually, sometimes evenwhen they're the same, cause I
know Nate is a six and you're asix Jeff.
And there's been, there's beentimes where it's like, man, you
totally get them.
And then there's times becauseyou get him, it frustrates.
Well, even
Jeff (20:24):
before something happens, I anticipate it.
I will say on the, it, it caughtmy attention when you're talking
about.
Trends and dress like I my uhapparel and my strategy for Is
what polos is sam's club goingto offer these greg norman polos
every year?
(20:44):
Like that's what I wear.
That's my
Beth (20:48):
And then I get like I get a shirt and i'm like, oh that
works great how many colors canI get so yeah And I
Jeff (20:55):
remember a son he was in college and he needed some
shirts.
I'm like, hey, do Take these andhe gave them all back like that.
Like that's not what I want.
Yeah So yeah, I don't offer thatgift.
So I need to learn many othergifts.
I have many other gifts.
Yes Or polos, aren't it?
Yeah
Beth (21:16):
Well, it's been so fun.
But before we go, let's justwrap it up.
I would love for you guys justto give a word of encouragement
to other parents that arewanting or are using the
Enneagram and their parentingapproach from a gospel centered
perspective.
What is some encouraging wordsyou could give to them?
Tyler (21:34):
Um, so as a type three, I definitely think it's important
to remember to be present in themoment and practice gratitude.
For what we have
Beth (21:44):
that is
Libby (21:44):
really good and I also think as an eight, but really
just anyone like your parentingcan be a really great, like,
training ground for your owngrowth.
Right?
Because your kids aren'tjudging.
You like, they're going to loveyou unconditionally anyways.
And so as an 8, being vulnerablewith them, practicing patience
with them and making sure thatI'm connecting more to my heart
(22:07):
when I'm with them is reallyimportant, but it can almost be
like this.
Safe space to kind of try onsome of those growth practices
that we want to put into placefor ourselves
Jeff (22:17):
You know, there's many ways in which people have talked
about uh kids particularly thepassages in the bible about kids
that God in act 17 tells us thathe's chosen the times and places
and the seasons in which we liveThat he knit us together in our
mother's womb.
We need to recognize that ourkids are a gift to us Not just
(22:39):
their presence but Really,they're sanctifying presence in
our life, like to reflect backto us as parents our need for
Jesus.
The Enneagram is never going tohelp you to know, observe, and
transform in a way that you'llnever need Jesus.
There's always going to be aweakness there that you're going
to need to cry out for help, butthat's a good thing, and the
(23:01):
Lord knows it, and intends it,and The good news is that God is
not surprised by our parentingstrategies, both good and bad.
He's fully aware of all of it.
And yet he intends to glorify usas trophies of his grace.
We're so thankful that you guyshave chosen to spend some time
with us and be honest with usabout parenting as an eight and
three.
(23:22):
And if you're eight and threeparents out there, be encouraged
because the Lord has greatintent for you.
Beth (23:28):
Well, Debbie, tell us one more time where people can find
you.
Again, my company is Expand
Libby (23:32):
Coaching and Consulting.
Um, I offer individual coupleand group coaching and my any,
or my Instagram is at Enneagramto expand.
Beth (23:44):
Well, thank you guys.
And blessings to you as youcontinue this journey and
growing as your kids actuallyraise you.
Hey guys, we are back withanother couple on Enneagram and
Parenting.
We've got Toya and Melvin.
Hey guys, how are you?
We're doing good.
How are you guys?
Good.
Well, tell us a little bit aboutyourselves, where you're from,
(24:05):
your family, your Enneagramtype.
Uh, before we dive into morequestions.
Toya (24:10):
Alrighty.
I am originally from Muskegon,Michigan, and we currently live
in Huntsville, Alabama, and mytype is type four wing three.
Melvin (24:20):
Yeah.
I'm Melvin Poplar, the husbandand my type is five.
And five.
Jeff (24:28):
Nice.
Melvin (24:28):
Yeah.
It's so I found out a lot aboutmyself.
Jeff (24:33):
Tanya is prompting.
I mean, was she the one that gotinterested into the Enneagram
first?
Melvin (24:39):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Jeff (24:42):
Yeah.
So
Beth (24:42):
tell us a little bit about that story.
You know, when did you guyslearn about the Enneagram and
how did it evolve to where youare now?
Toya (24:50):
You know, I, um, had friends ask me if I knew what my
Enneagram number was for aboutmaybe two years prior to me
actually looking into it.
And when I did each time that Itook a test, I tested as a two
and I was fully convinced that Iwas a two until I read the
(25:11):
description for the four.
And I was like, Oh my goodness,this is me from head to toe.
So I had a good friend who camealongside me, who's a coach.
And I told her, I said, I don'tunderstand how I could have so
much self awareness.
I'm sorry, so much emotional,like intelligence concerning
other people, and then stillhave like this blind spot
concerning myself.
(25:31):
So I was just in a really hardplace.
And she began to describe, youknow, the traits of a four to
me.
And it just, I felt sovulnerable and exposed that it
was a gift.
She said, I thought you were forjust based off of how you dress,
but I want you to have it thaton your own.
So I'm so thankful to have hadsuch a healthy coach to come
(25:53):
alongside me
Jeff (25:54):
now.
And then whenever you had thisamazing insight regarding
yourself, uh, as we've mentionedbefore, typically we immediately
start to ask questions.
Well, what's my spouse or thesignificant people in my life
and what are my kids?
So, uh, Melvin, what, what wasthat like when Toya introduced
it to you?
Melvin (26:13):
Um, to be honest, I, I was like, what is this, you
know, and, and well, the more Iread about fives, then the more
it makes sense that I, you know,I, I really wasn't that, um,
into it, uh, at first and she,um, she, she kind of explained a
(26:37):
lot to me and I'm still learninga lot, you know?
Um, and so.
But a lot of the tendencies areme, you know, I have a large
tendency to compartmentalize and
Jeff (26:49):
yes,
Melvin (26:50):
uh, when I was reading about parenting and some of my
tendencies, they are true.
I, I,
Jeff (26:56):
yeah.
Melvin (26:57):
You know, with our kids, I tend to be, um, very intense
and, uh, I, I, the word isn'treally controlling, but
authoritative.
Authoritative would probably bebetter.
Jeff (27:10):
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
Melvin (27:11):
And, and, um, and that is me all and about feelings
when it comes to feelings and meexpressing them.
I can com compartmentalize verywell.
And yeah, in terms of ourchildren.
Um, you know, we have twodaughters and three sons and,
uh, I, I, um, well, mydaughters, I used to just, you
(27:35):
know, when they started gettingemotional and stuff, it was, You
know, now I understand why Iwould, you know, like, why can't
you just turn this off?
It's not productive, but I knowthat I know why.
Beth (27:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and yeah, so then tell usyour, your kids ages and, you
know, and are they old enough toknow the Enneagram?
And if so, what's that beenlike?
Tell us a little bit more aboutthem.
Toya (28:05):
Okay, so we have three adult children.
It's like we have two sets ofkids.
They are ages 18, 20 and 23 andolder to, um, know their type.
We have a son who is a four andthen we have a daughter who's a
four wing five and that has beensuper eye opening for us to see,
(28:29):
um, you know, components of ourown personality reflected and
then heard.
Incredible brilliance anduniqueness shine through.
Um, and then our 18 year old,she's an eight.
Well, I'm sorry.
She's 18.
So she's shaping up like a solideight right now.
Um, Then our younger three areages 11, 12, and 13.
Beth (28:54):
So what has it been like for you guys to learn about your
type and see your parentingstyles?
What have you learned the most,uh, maybe just recently about
your type and how you parentfrom that type?
Toya (29:05):
You know what, Beth, I've learned, um, through the
awareness of the Enneagram justcoupled with radical grace, Is,
I no longer use shame to try tocontrol my kids, but I use grace
to console them.
Beth (29:22):
Yeah.
Jeff (29:24):
Now, how is that?
What's that look like for yourown personal journey as a four?
And how does that relate toextending grace to yourself and
then extending grace to yourkids?
That's a
Toya (29:34):
good question.
You know, Jeff, I've got a greatstory about that.
Um, just diving deep into.
you know, the wounding childhoodmessage of a four, I realized
along my journey tocertification that I, for one,
my mom's a five.
So my observation was if Melvinis capable of loving me so well,
(29:58):
rather than me believe this,This message that says, my mom
has no interest in me.
Why not just express that to herthat that's what I've always
longed to hear.
And so I called my mom one day,I had a really raw conversation
and shared with her how, becauseI'm a mom, I know that she loves
(30:19):
me.
In my head, but I never felt itin my heart.
And
Beth (30:22):
it
Toya (30:23):
wasn't that to her, she just rose to the occasion and I
was blown away because I thoughtpeople are just people like I've
made my mom out to be thisboogie monster in the closet.
And the reality is is that shewas a little girl with her own
childhood messages.
And so that was super eyeopeningand our younger three are
(30:44):
adopted.
And I realized that if.
If here I am in my mid forties,I still long to be affirmed by
my mom or to know that she lovedme.
How much more do my boys need toknow that they are so fully
loved?
And so I had a really, um, I hada really just heavy conversation
(31:06):
with my boys and kind of probedtheir hearts to see if they
might have an interest inhearing a message from their
biological mother.
And somehow God gave me theforesight.
When I first met theirbiological mom to ask her to
record a message to them Ithought that someday they'd have
questions and they would benefitfrom hearing in her own words
(31:29):
And so I asked all three of themindividually if they if they
could talk to their mom Um, whatwould they say?
And two of them said I wouldwant her to know that I I love
her And that I miss her and theywere one two and three when we
adopted them.
So I was kind of shocked But
Jeff (31:48):
I could
Toya (31:48):
just see that Human desire to connect with your mom.
And so my next question was ifyou could if you could hear her
voice Would you want to andy'all I thought that maybe
someday they'd be 18 or in theircollege years That's what I was
going to save this recording forAnd they both emphatically said
yes, and so I played it to themand their response was just
(32:12):
tears and When I checked in withthem to see how they were doing,
I said, are you okay, buddy?
And one of them said, yes, mama,I'm okay.
Because now I know that sheloves me.
And so they both said, I knowthat she placed, she didn't give
me away because she didn't loveme.
She gave me away because sheloved me so much.
(32:35):
And so I just, I was so thankfulthat here, I believe this lie my
whole life, um, that sent meinto myself and just.
Having that insight of how muchit impacted me to know that my
mom loved me I wanted to givethat gift to them.
Yeah, so I hope that answers thequestion like oh man, that
Jeff (32:56):
is Incredible.
I So I was adopted as well.
Um, and and when I was 30 yearsold found my biological mother
uh and had thought about itduring my teen years, but one of
the most interesting things thatI walked away from the whole
experience and she has sincedied and We had Started to
develop a relationship, uh afterwe first met Um, but she had uh,
(33:22):
she was catholic and she had apocket rosary now They look like
little coins and then it lookslike a little rosary around a
ring Uh with a cross at the topof it, but she carried that with
her and every time she bumpedinto it Throughout her day, she
would be reminded to pray forme.
(33:42):
And as a type six wondering,does anyone see and can anyone
help as a kid?
And all my experiences to knowthat she was praying for me just
meant the world.
Now there were other aspects andinsights, but that's the one
that I carried with me so much.
Like she, she pulled me asideafter a couple of years of being
(34:04):
in relationship again.
And.
Uh, she gave it to me and I, Istill have it and I treasure it
every time I think about it.
Like it just hits right at myheart and the core of who I am
as a man.
And that like you were saying,mid forties and you still want
to hear from mom and dad.
I love you.
You're doing great.
Beth (34:21):
Yes.
And here in your specific way,which really is the core
longing.
And so the core longing of thefour to hear you are loved and
seen for exactly who you arespecial and unique.
And then as a five to hear yourneeds are not a problem.
You know, to hear that from yourfamily would, would just usually
for that, that person means theworld.
Melvin, does that kind of landon you that way?
Melvin (34:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
One of our sons didn't want tohear his mom and we thought that
was strange, but, um, I, well, Ithought it was strange, but, but
Toya explained it, you know, hestill has, he was the oldest,
you know, and so he still hassome resentment and that, you
know, he feels like that, Andhe's still angry.
Jeff (35:06):
Yes.
Melvin (35:07):
And so, so that was, you know, that was, um, it was, it's
interesting, you know, for theyounger three, younger two to
want to hear, but the oldest notto.
And that was just a differentdynamic, uh, in terms of that,
uh, interaction.
Beth (35:24):
Yeah.
Jeff (35:24):
Well, one of the things that the Enneagram brings to our
parenting is that it helps toclarify or give vocabulary to
what we're great at and what westruggle with as parents.
Yeah.
No, Melvin, you started to speakto this a little bit earlier
about maybe a little moreauthoritative, uh,
compartmentalized.
(35:45):
Um, what are some strengths thatyou bring to your parenting as a
type five?
Melvin (35:52):
Um, I would, I would say, uh, I don't know.
I think it's a blessing and acurse.
Sometime I will be, you know, Iwill be authoritative.
And, and, um, but I, in a lot ofways I kept a lot of foolishness
at bay, but, um, uh, still, youknow, I can still be soft and
(36:16):
I'm learning how to be, uh,less, less authoritative when my
daughters, especially when mydaughters are trying to reason
to me because they kind of, theykind of go internal when they
feel like they're not beingheard.
Okay.
So,
Jeff (36:32):
yes.
Melvin (36:33):
So, um, I think as a strength, uh, in terms of that
is to not, uh, when they, whenthey start talking emotional,
like, uh, there was an instancewhen my daughter, she, she
wanted to quit the band and, youknow, she had been in band in
high school and she was in bandin college and she wanted to
(36:55):
quit the band and it was a veryemotional thing for her.
And I, you know, I was justlike, well, it's a scholarship.
You need to stay in the banduntil you, you know, it was a
lot of pressure, you know, it'slike, I'm standing in a band
only because dad wants me tostay in a band.
And I'm like, I want you to bein a band because it costs
(37:16):
money.
But, and so I kind of tookanother approach in terms of,
Uh, just encouraging her, look,I, um, why not, you know, look
for other scholarships, youknow, use your drawing, uh, do
something to that, replace theband money.
And you don't have to be in aband, you know, I'm not, I don't
want you in a band just because,uh, you get a scholarship.
(37:38):
If you get money another way,that'd be good too, you know?
And so,
Jeff (37:41):
yes.
Melvin (37:42):
And so without even updating me on it, she went and,
you know, And totally got ascholarship that paid for the
rest of her college.
And I was amazing.
And, and she was like liberatedfeeling like, you know, she had
a new lease on life because hedidn't have to be in the band,
but I think
Beth (38:01):
you're type eight.
This is our four.
This is our four daughter.
Melvin (38:06):
A lot like her mom in terms of like, And I, and I'm,
I'm learning to, um, I think mystrength is to, uh, not, uh, to
like, even though I, a lot oftimes I do not get emotional
with him, I can still just bequiet and, um, what's, what's
(38:30):
the word, um, the empathy thing.
That's the empathy.
Yeah.
My wife has helped me with someempathy training.
Yes.
To say, you know, I canunderstand how this is difficult
for you, you know, and like, andactually, um, you know, use the
correct language to make herfeel heard and not, um, and so
(38:51):
that way, even though by defaultI come compartmentalize, it
doesn't mean that I can't usetools to, uh, let my daughters,
let my kids in and, and beemotional and not, you know,
even with my sons, you know, I,I know that they need, you know,
physical touch and, and, andhugs and stuff.
And so we, you know, even timeswhen I'm like, well, they're
(39:13):
getting old, but they still comeup and hug me and say good night
and stuff like that.
And I'm, and I'm like, they,they need that because they're
children and, you know, and, andit's, it's, it's doing something
for them.
So,
Jeff (39:24):
you
Melvin (39:25):
know, I, I tend to do that.
I, I, I'm more conscious thatI'm doing it and make sure I
don't just.
Cut off, you know what I mean?
And so yeah,
Jeff (39:33):
well tell you what about yourself Um, tell me what what
are some strengths that youbring as a type 4 mother
Toya (39:40):
I would say.
Um affirming our kids uniquenessand pursuing them, um making
sure that they understand thatthey are loved and celebrated
for who they are and how theyshow up in the world.
Um, definitely a strength.
I think that just the, just the,it's amazing how much of a game
(40:05):
changer self awareness is.
Our oldest son once told me howI used to invalidate his emotion
and how I would always one uphim with like a story that was
way sadder than his story.
And so now that I can, um, seeand celebrate my own divine
(40:30):
design instead of.
slipping into some shame cyclewhen my kids give me really
honest feedback like that.
It's just helping me to connectand to humanize and not go into
perfectionistic mode or not gointo the validating like I was
only trying to help.
So it's just a healthy balanceto be able to See them to
(40:56):
celebrate them and to give themthe liberty to make mistakes.
Um, when I'm passionate aboutsomething, I have that side of
me that wants to do everythingright.
And I'm just grateful for thegospel that perfectionism is
just way overrated.
Jeff (41:13):
Yes.
Toya (41:13):
So it's helped me to give them grace.
But it's also helped me toextend grace to myself when I
feel like I've blown it as amom.
Jeff (41:22):
Yeah, so
Toya (41:22):
good.
Beth (41:23):
Well as we wrap it up, what would you guys, like what's
one word of encouragement youcan give to all these other
parents that are out therewanting to use the insights of
the Enneagram from a GospelCenter perspective?
What would, what would you guysdo or say as an encouragement to
them?
So
Toya (41:40):
as a type four, my one word would be enough and that is
you are enough as a parent andenough is enough.
Yeah.
God gave your kids to you.
You are
Beth (41:53):
enough.
Yeah.
Toya (41:54):
Yeah.
Beth (41:54):
That's great.
Yeah.
Toya (41:55):
So that's my, that's my affirmation is you are enough,
but my accountability isalready, I mean, it's also.
Enough is enough.
Like it's, it's enough.
Your best is do your best andtrust God to do the best.
Jeff (42:09):
That's right.
Melvin, what about you?
I
Melvin (42:11):
think mine would be, um, uh, to sum it up is, is
dedication in terms of like,when, when we had our children,
we dedicated them to the Lord.
So it's, it's really God'sresponsibility to take care of
our children is, and we're juststewards over that.
(42:32):
So, um, I can't protect them atall times.
I can't.
I can't, um, do anything.
My, my, my whole thing is justto make sure that, uh, to put
the burden on the Lord and thatway, It's not a, you know, I'm,
I'm just praying to be the bestparent that God would have me to
be for my children and, and makethe steps extremely, uh, easy to
(42:57):
follow if they're
Jeff (42:59):
his, they're
Melvin (43:00):
his kids, you know, so I don't, I just kind of try and
look at it like that.
Jeff (43:06):
That's awesome.
Oh, thank you for sharing thatwhat a great reminder
Beth (43:09):
And thanks guys just for being so vulnerable and sharing
what it's like to be a type fourand five couple type
Jeff (43:15):
I did want to ask one other question, but when we have
spoken with other couples ofcolor and One of the insights
that we've come to understand isthat each community kind of
values certain types more thanothers or values them in
different ways.
Would you be open to answering aquestion about, I mean, within
(43:38):
your community, what do you,what kind of parents are more
valued or What kind of parentingstrategies or parenting values
are kind of elevated Over othersand then maybe how your unique
parenting style as from yourtype How that might be different
does that question make sense?
Toya (43:58):
Yeah, it does make sense.
Um, I think that Based on, forexample, I've seen a lot of
women who have been mistyped, alot of African American women
who have been mistyped as AIDSbecause of the stigma that
(44:18):
they're the angry black woman,and they could be, um, they
could be fives that are in ahealthy place, or I've seen,
People may be praised for beingthat protective mama bear that
is the challenger who is a, andI've also seen maybe almost like
(44:42):
a, it depends on what circleyou're in.
If you're in a church circle, Ithink that people want to like
condition Everybody to be a, tolike, I just want everybody to,
you know, to help and to, ormaybe, yeah, it's, it's
interesting.
I, um, in terms of parenting, Ican't say what type of male
(45:07):
parent I've seen praised becauseI really see, I see Melvin
affirmed so much for the type offather that he is.
He was the father of the year afew years back in our city.
And, um, I think just his.
Self reliance and his tenacityto just persevere and figure
(45:28):
everything out is esteemedreally highly.
But I have a compassion and kindof a burden for, for dads who
are fours, like for dads who arenines, who their voice and their
presence hasn't been valued andcelebrated.
So, um, Yeah, it's that's that'sa that's a really layered
(45:49):
question because it all dependson the context that it's in.
But that's something I wouldlove to speak to.
I think the Enneagram is anamazing tool and I would love to
see it more widely spread withincommunities of color because I
think that far too quickly, um,We can demonize and
(46:13):
mischaracterize that which wedon't understand.
And yet we don't know what wedon't know because couple with
the gospel is liberating toolI've ever seen.
And it's just that it's a tool.
So, yeah, I'm sorry for thattangent, but yeah, Toya.
Jeff (46:30):
I am so grateful.
Um, recently celebrated, uh,your certification, right?
You just finally passed the, uh,becoming an Enneagram coach
course.
So we are overjoyed having you,uh, as part of the community and
kind of paving away and bringinginsights just like what you both
have regarding your ownparenting.
(46:50):
And it's also how it relates torace and community.
Uh, so grateful for your voiceand all of this and willingness
to take time to, to share aboutyour experience.
I mean, yikes, man, we covered alot in this brief amount of
time.
You guys are awesome.
Yeah.
Beth (47:06):
Wow, I hope that you guys enjoy that as much as I did.
Hearing from Libby, Tyler, Toya,and Melvin, man, what
differences people have in theirown parenting style, but how the
Enneagram can be that gamechanger.
But as always, remember that theEnneagram reveals your need for
Jesus, not your need to workharder.
(47:27):
It's the gospel that transformsus.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
I think you would agree with me that there is no one
size fits all approach toparenting, right?
Every mom and every dad parentsdifferently.
I mean, maybe you're the type ofmom or dad who shows up with
boundless optimism and burst ofcreativity, or maybe you're the
anchor of the family withunwavering loyalty and
(00:21):
impressive patience.
But you might be the parent whoconfidently guides your family
with sage wisdom.
Or maybe the parent who isdeeply in touch with their
feelings and their child'sfeelings.
Now you may be one of theseparents and still you feel lost,
uncertain, or just trying tosurvive.
(00:41):
The struggles we face as momsand dads and with ourselves and
our children, it's as diverse asour own personalities, right?
Well, that's why the Enneagramis a game changing tool and
applying it to parenthood.
Well, hey everyone, I'm BethMcCord, and this is your
Enneagram Coach, the podcast.
And I wanted to take you back intime into episode 83, because I
(01:05):
wanted you to hear from twocouples that have used the
Enneagram in their own parentingand how it's been a game changer
for them.
And so we not only wanted toshare a little bit more of our
perspective, but we wanted tobring in some people who have
been using the Enneagram.
in their parenting style alongwith their spouses.
And so we have some dear friendswith us that are going to help
(01:28):
navigate the way.
So we have a certified Enneagramcoach through YEC, Libby Cole
and her husband, Tyler.
Jeff (01:37):
That's right.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us.
Um, tell us a little bit moreabout yourself.
So tell us about your Enneagramtypes, how long you've been
married, and then tell us alittle bit about your kids.
Libby (01:49):
Sure.
So we are going on 13 years ofmarriage this December and
congratulations.
That's pretty nice.
Thank you.
And we were together for fiveyears before that, so ever since
we were babies ourselves.
Um, but I am an Enneagram typeeight and I am a full-time
(02:11):
Enneagram coach, thanks to YEC.
Yay.
Tyler (02:15):
Oh, that's awesome, Phil.
I'm Tyler.
I'm a type 3, um, you know,learn that obviously when Libby
became a Enneagram coach and,um, I'm a nurse practitioner.
Libby (02:28):
And we have 2 kids, um, and I know you all can't see
this out in the podcast world,but Tyler is a redhead and we
were blessed with 2 redheadedchildren also.
So we have, I know I amoutnumbered because I am not a
redhead, but we have a sevenyear old little boy named
Whitten, and we have a five yearold little girl named Ellison.
Jeff (02:49):
That's great to hear that you guys are in the mix of it as
parents.
Uh, two kids, that's, that is sofun and so awesome.
Uh, how long have you known yourEnneagram types?
How long have you beeninterested in the Enneagram?
Libby (03:03):
We've really been working with it and really practicing
the growth of it for a littleover a year now.
So we're still early on in it.
We're still learning andgrowing, but have really been
incorporating it for a littleover a year.
Jeff (03:20):
Now one of the things that happens when people find their
Enneagram type, uh, there'stypically two questions that
come up next one What is myspouse?
Or a significant person in mylife whether it be a friend or a
parent and then number two, whatare my kids?
It was that similar for youguys?
Libby (03:40):
It was, and interestingly enough, our seven year old has
really taken a shine to it.
And so he has typed himself andhe also likes to think about all
the other types.
And, um, he actually just tookover my Instagram account for
this series because he loves theEnneagram so much also.
Jeff (03:59):
Okay.
Now please, what's yourInstagram handle?
Because I'm sure everyone wouldlove to see a seven year old.
Particularly a redhead, if Iunderstand it correctly, wax
eloquently on the Enneagram.
Libby (04:11):
Yeah, my handle is at Enneagram to expand because my
company is expand coaching andconsulting.
Jeff (04:20):
Enneagram to expand.
Libby (04:21):
And he has done real, For all of the texts and about how
they play video.
There we go That
Jeff (04:28):
is excellent.
That is so awesome Tell me thiswhat has been one of the
insights that you've gained intoyour not just Your kids and
their personality types, but howyou parent how what insights has
the enneagram given you as tohow you parent?
Tyler (04:47):
Um, so for me being a type three Hey It was a big
realization to know that, youknow, as a achiever, you know, I
have high expectations of myselfand then others.
Also, um, and so it was reallyeye opening to see how that can
translate into my kids and howthey don't.
(05:09):
you know, need to have that onthem all the time.
Um, so, you know, I have to bemindful of that and just try not
to be so hard on them.
Jeff (05:18):
You know, Tyler, I was just talking with one of my dear
friends.
Matter of fact, he's the one whooriginally gave us Richard
Roar's book on the Enneagram in2001, but he's visiting with us.
And, uh, we were just talking,um, now that we have young adult
children, uh, anytime they makea mistake, we just automatically
assume it's because of us.
(05:40):
And, and he's, you know, myfriend made a comment.
He's, uh, another mentor of hissaid that, you know, your, your
kids can't save you.
Um, and I thought, Oh, that issuch a provocative question for
some statement to someone.
How does it ever feel like thatwhen your kids fail, that
somehow that relates to yourtype as a three.
Tyler (06:02):
Yeah, definitely.
So, I feel like, you know,succeeding in school is always
really important to me.
And so therefore, you know, Ikind of expect that or want that
for them as well.
Um, sports also really difficultto watch because, you know,
obviously you kind of want themto be the best win.
(06:23):
Not always.
Right.
Beth (06:25):
Get with them all.
That is great.
Jeff (06:27):
I mean, that is, isn't that one of the interesting
things?
Like I, one of my favoriteparenting books was by Dan
Allender on how children raiseparents and that our children
are a gift to us for somethinglearning about ourselves.
And so, I mean, what is thatlike for you to seeing, I have
all these values andexpectations and desires and my,
(06:51):
God's going to use it in my lifeto help me to become a better
man.
Tyler (06:54):
I mean, now that I kind of can, you know, relate to
that, it is eye opening.
And I just, you know, tried toremind myself to be grateful for
them and my family and, youknow, just use that, like you
said, like as a kind of warningcall, I guess.
Now,
Jeff (07:12):
Libby, what about you?
What insights have yourwonderful children given you
about being an eight?
Libby (07:20):
Right.
Um, well, Good learning aboutparenting and the any of them
together, the words that come upfor an 8 are demanding,
controlling, intimidating.
I love the tone that you'resaying there.
That's awesome.
Well, it was kind of like asucker punch to me.
You know, I felt reallyconvicted by those words because
(07:42):
I realized.
A, that they were true.
Um, and also that it wassomething that I wanted to try
to work on.
So once that was brought beforeme, I decided I needed to set
out to kind of move away fromthose tendencies.
Um, and I know I don't get itright all the time.
Um, but I think with anythingwith the Enneagram or any self
(08:04):
improvement, you know, beingmindful, being intentional about
it, That's going to help youmove into a healthier place.
And I think,
Beth (08:11):
you know, the, the biggest thing I've seen since our kids
are now 23 and 21, what I'veseen the most is it's not that
kids want you to get it rightand be perfect.
Well, okay, let me take thatback.
Sure.
They would love that.
But I think we all are inreality and we know on this side
of heaven, that's not going tohappen.
What they're really looking foris us, Uh, to own our own stuff
(08:34):
and to apologize, like a realapology that just means the
world like, um, a, I did this B.
I know it hurt you and see, willyou forgive me?
And is there anything I can doto restore that changes the
game?
Because so many times kidsbelieve it was their fault when
a lot of times.
(08:55):
It's on us.
You know, I know a lot of timesmy kids really didn't do
anything, but I was frustratedor stressed about something
else.
And I reacted through my ninetype and they got, you know, the
bad and the sick.
Now, sometimes the kids, they dotheir stuff, but I'm still
responsible for how I react tothem.
Even if they're doing somethingthat is not.
Um, correct.
(09:15):
And so with that, I'm justreally so thankful to hear how
the Enneagram has just broughtyou guys so much awareness that
you can enter into thatconversation.
And I know for Jeff and I, and Ilove to hear from you guys too,
is that when we talk about ourtypes and how we're parenting
one, just kind of just talkingabout it and being aware, but
also.
(09:35):
You know, helping each other tosee where we're weak, um, and
also, but where we shine hasbeen really beneficial.
How has, uh, that been helpfulfor you guys to cheer each other
on?
Like, Hey, you, you're amazingas, as a parent, when you do
this, but also how can you guys,um, help each other, not call
each other out in your weaknessas in shame and condemnation,
(09:56):
but in a way of encouraging themto grow.
What has that been like for youguys?
Libby (10:01):
Yeah, I'll jump in just because you were talking about
the apologies, Beth, and I thinkthat that's 1 of the places that
I struggle as an 8, because asyou're saying that, I hear
vulnerability vulnerability, andthat is always hard.
Right?
And so sometimes I catch myselfalmost.
dismissing their emotions andkind of telling them, just get
over it or, you know, stopcrying.
(10:23):
And I have to stop myself andthink, no, we need to identify
those emotions.
We need to talk about it and letthem feel what they're feeling
instead of just telling them todry it up and move on.
And I think that that waspartially my lack of
vulnerability and being in thatspace.
space with them, and I don'twant to encourage them to not
(10:44):
show that vulnerabilitythemselves.
Beth (10:47):
It's true.
The more that we are vulnerableand transparent around our kids
about what we're learning andgrowing, the more that they're
going to have emotionalintelligence because they're
seeing it happen in front ofthem.
Now they may not be able to doit.
Themselves right away.
But over time, you're going tosee that they're going to have
the same understanding ofvocabulary that you
demonstrated, just likeeverything that we do, you know,
(11:08):
like whatever our kids arewonderful interpreter, wonderful
observers, but terribleinterpreters.
And so we want them, we want tohelp them to not only observe
what's going on, but how tointerpret it.
So, and then what you'reprobably going to be able to do
because you're an Enneagramcoach now is to help them to
nuance their heart so that theycan apologize.
(11:30):
More specifically, according towhat what's happening for them
versus just a blanket old.
I'm sorry, you know, well, okay,that's great.
But what are you sorry for?
Are you fully aware of what thisis or what, how it's impacting
your brother or your sister orus?
Um, but if we don't demonstrateit first, they're going to feel
(11:50):
on the defensive.
But if we can showvulnerability, um, because we
know that we're safe in Christ.
Jeff (11:56):
Um, what's that been like to pursue your own growth,
recognizing your weaknesses, uh,but to do so in front of your
kids?
Tyler (12:13):
Yeah, so I love this.
I mean, it
Jeff (12:18):
really is a fun personality tool, and it's great
when you first entered it.
And then when you start to useit, you're like, Oh, wait a
minute.
This is dealing with core issuesin my life.
So, yeah,
Tyler (12:30):
I mean, definitely what hits home with me is, I work a
lot.
I buried myself in work.
Um, I, you know, I hold a fulltime job to part time jobs.
Just, you know, it's justsomething I do, you know, um,
and so being an immigrant 3, itreally was eye opening to me to
(12:55):
realize, like.
I guess why I do it, obviously,but then to also recognize when
I'm doing it too much and it'screating a problem, you know,
especially with family,especially with kids.
Um, so I have to really findmyself being intentional about
that.
So 1 thing that we started, youknow, was it'll work Saturday.
(13:17):
So, basically, I do nothing onSaturdays, except for a family
time.
It's set aside.
So, Helps me fully focus on, youknow, my kids, um,
Beth (13:28):
They're going to feel really cherished and loved and
focused on in those Saturdays.
They can look forward to, causethey're busy too with their life
on the, in the, during theweeks, but to know that they've
got that time with dad, itreally is.
Um, super special.
Jeff (13:44):
Well, and this is one of the beauties that not only
marriage does it provides forus, but our kids provide us.
It's almost like a thermostat ofwhat's happening in our own
heart.
Uh, they're definitely therecipients of our unhealthy
patterns of our type.
Um, you know, Beth talks a lotabout the blind spot path.
It's the number that we go tofor those relationships that we
(14:08):
are the closest to.
Um, Transcribed by https (14:09):
otter.
ai And oftentimes when I'mworking something out in my
interior world, it comes outsideways towards Beth or it
comes out sideways towards thekids.
If I'm able to model whathumility and vulnerability look
like and being a recipient ofgrace, giving myself grace, but
also, uh, focusing my attention.
(14:31):
To grow that becomes a model forour kids I mean how many of us
would love just to hear ourparents admit to their mistakes
like just say you're sorryThat's all I'm asking for at
this point but can you imaginewhat it would have been like
that I This is a pattern for howI relate to you and I'm sorry
about that and I want to improveon that man I mean that was just
(14:53):
That would sound like a miracle.
Beth (14:55):
And I think the great thing is that the Enneagram lets
us know specifically what we'regoing to struggle with.
And that's what you guys werejust kind of saying this as a,
Hey, I hear, I see these wordsand yes, that's me.
But we also don't want to losesight on where we're so strong
in our personality, like how wereflect Christ in a unique way.
Um, so talk about that.
(15:15):
What are some really likeincredible attributes that you
bring as a parent to your kids?
Libby (15:22):
Um, well, as an eight, I am fiercely supportive of them.
I mean, I will support them,protect them, provide for them,
you know?
And so I really, they know thatI am there no matter what, like
I am their biggest cheerleaderand I also really want them to
be their own people.
I want them to takeresponsibility.
I want them to be strongindividuals.
(15:44):
And so, you know, I'm helping tofoster an environment where they
can do that.
Um, I am very structured, and soI think that, you know, that is
good for Children, I believe, tohave some structure and to know
that they have that stabilityand security.
Um, but I just love watchingthem thrive.
(16:05):
Um, and our son, I don't think Isaid earlier, he thinks he's a
one, um, and he's seven.
So I understand fully that thatis still developing.
He's still exploring that that'swhat he relates to the match the
most.
And so I really try to, um, youknow, speak affirmations over
him and tell him that he isloved and, you know, make sure
that.
That that inner critic doesn'tget too much of him and, um,
(16:25):
that even when he makes mistakesor things happen, that he is
still loved.
And so, you know, we've beenreally mindful that with that,
we think our 5 year old might bea 7 or an 8.
We'll see, um, she's, she'spretty wild and fun and out
there so far, but she's still 5.
Um, so we try to just, you know,have fun with her and love on
her, but I do think.
(16:46):
You know that eight protectorProvider really comes in big
with me as like the mom.
I mean you you brought
Jeff (16:53):
up one of the significant things of the enneagram Is the
idea that your kids are adifferent type than you?
And they need different thingsthan you do as parents and they
need different things
Beth (17:04):
From each other.
That's right.
Yes,
Jeff (17:07):
and so to to to realize that That your type one child is
going to wrestle with an innercritic That there there's
divided loyalties.
I I know my mom loves me, but Istill feel like i'm a failure
It's very difficult, but asparents, to be able to
emotionally coach your children,not according to what you want
(17:29):
them to be or what, um, what youthink should happen, but
according to their Enneagramtype is revolutionary for kids
to think that, yeah, my parentssaw me, they understood me.
Uh, well, Tyler, what about you?
What is it, what's somethingthat as a three that you bring
to your parenting that is justamazing?
Thank you.
I mean, it's all amazing.
(17:50):
I mean, you're, you're, you'rekilling it.
So thank you.
Thank you
Tyler (17:55):
Um, so I think as a three definitely, I think it's that I
set a strong foundation on work,eth work ethic.
Um, you know, I really feel likeit's important to succeed and to
be able to, um.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
I'm looking for, like, uh, yeah,I mean, yeah, but, you know, you
(18:17):
put in the work to be able toget what you want.
You know, you have a goal youput in the work towards that.
Um, and then, you know, the funthing that I think is cool is as
a 3, we always know the latesttrends.
So, you know.
I always have the coolest stuff.
Um, clothes, you know, all thatstuff.
(18:41):
Our son actually, when he was inpreschool, won best dressed.
Yes! I love it.
Let's be
Jeff (18:46):
honest, Tyler, you won.
Libby (18:53):
He was cute in his tiny polo outfit, you know, and
Jeff (18:56):
he
Libby (18:57):
won a superlative for it, so there you go.
Jeff (19:01):
I don't think I've ever won a
Beth (19:06):
superlative.
This is why I love talking aboutthese things, because it's so
opposite of who Jeff and I areas parents.
And that's not a good, right,bad, you know, thing it's, it is
what it is.
You know, we had friends thatare two type nines, uh, they're
a married couple and they wereon our team and they were
talking about how they parenttheir kids and pray for them at
(19:28):
night.
Yeah.
You know, we pray that our kidswill have empathy and gentleness
and kindness and our type eight,uh, event planner.
There she goes.
What?
Oh, man,
Jeff (19:40):
I
Beth (19:41):
pray that they're a warrior and that they're no be,
no, all started laughing becausethat, you know, God has called
us to reflect him in, in hisglory and the way he has given
us attributes, um, that reflecthim.
But we definitely have to bemindful of when those derail and
get misaligned and to own thoseparts of us to ask for
(20:03):
forgiveness, um, so that we can.
And then steward our kids andhow God has created them.
And that can be so challengingwhen they're very different than
us.
And actually, sometimes evenwhen they're the same, cause I
know Nate is a six and you're asix Jeff.
And there's been, there's beentimes where it's like, man, you
totally get them.
And then there's times becauseyou get him, it frustrates.
Well, even
Jeff (20:24):
before something happens, I anticipate it.
I will say on the, it, it caughtmy attention when you're talking
about.
Trends and dress like I my uhapparel and my strategy for Is
what polos is sam's club goingto offer these greg norman polos
every year?
(20:44):
Like that's what I wear.
That's my
Beth (20:48):
And then I get like I get a shirt and i'm like, oh that
works great how many colors canI get so yeah And I
Jeff (20:55):
remember a son he was in college and he needed some
shirts.
I'm like, hey, do Take these andhe gave them all back like that.
Like that's not what I want.
Yeah So yeah, I don't offer thatgift.
So I need to learn many othergifts.
I have many other gifts.
Yes Or polos, aren't it?
Yeah
Beth (21:16):
Well, it's been so fun.
But before we go, let's justwrap it up.
I would love for you guys justto give a word of encouragement
to other parents that arewanting or are using the
Enneagram and their parentingapproach from a gospel centered
perspective.
What is some encouraging wordsyou could give to them?
Tyler (21:34):
Um, so as a type three, I definitely think it's important
to remember to be present in themoment and practice gratitude.
For what we have
Beth (21:44):
that is
Libby (21:44):
really good and I also think as an eight, but really
just anyone like your parentingcan be a really great, like,
training ground for your owngrowth.
Right?
Because your kids aren'tjudging.
You like, they're going to loveyou unconditionally anyways.
And so as an 8, being vulnerablewith them, practicing patience
with them and making sure thatI'm connecting more to my heart
(22:07):
when I'm with them is reallyimportant, but it can almost be
like this.
Safe space to kind of try onsome of those growth practices
that we want to put into placefor ourselves
Jeff (22:17):
You know, there's many ways in which people have talked
about uh kids particularly thepassages in the bible about kids
that God in act 17 tells us thathe's chosen the times and places
and the seasons in which we liveThat he knit us together in our
mother's womb.
We need to recognize that ourkids are a gift to us Not just
(22:39):
their presence but Really,they're sanctifying presence in
our life, like to reflect backto us as parents our need for
Jesus.
The Enneagram is never going tohelp you to know, observe, and
transform in a way that you'llnever need Jesus.
There's always going to be aweakness there that you're going
to need to cry out for help, butthat's a good thing, and the
(23:01):
Lord knows it, and intends it,and The good news is that God is
not surprised by our parentingstrategies, both good and bad.
He's fully aware of all of it.
And yet he intends to glorify usas trophies of his grace.
We're so thankful that you guyshave chosen to spend some time
with us and be honest with usabout parenting as an eight and
three.
(23:22):
And if you're eight and threeparents out there, be encouraged
because the Lord has greatintent for you.
Beth (23:28):
Well, Debbie, tell us one more time where people can find
you.
Again, my company is Expand
Libby (23:32):
Coaching and Consulting.
Um, I offer individual coupleand group coaching and my any,
or my Instagram is at Enneagramto expand.
Beth (23:44):
Well, thank you guys.
And blessings to you as youcontinue this journey and
growing as your kids actuallyraise you.
Hey guys, we are back withanother couple on Enneagram and
Parenting.
We've got Toya and Melvin.
Hey guys, how are you?
We're doing good.
How are you guys?
Good.
Well, tell us a little bit aboutyourselves, where you're from,
(24:05):
your family, your Enneagramtype.
Uh, before we dive into morequestions.
Toya (24:10):
Alrighty.
I am originally from Muskegon,Michigan, and we currently live
in Huntsville, Alabama, and mytype is type four wing three.
Melvin (24:20):
Yeah.
I'm Melvin Poplar, the husbandand my type is five.
And five.
Jeff (24:28):
Nice.
Melvin (24:28):
Yeah.
It's so I found out a lot aboutmyself.
Jeff (24:33):
Tanya is prompting.
I mean, was she the one that gotinterested into the Enneagram
first?
Melvin (24:39):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Jeff (24:42):
Yeah.
So
Beth (24:42):
tell us a little bit about that story.
You know, when did you guyslearn about the Enneagram and
how did it evolve to where youare now?
Toya (24:50):
You know, I, um, had friends ask me if I knew what my
Enneagram number was for aboutmaybe two years prior to me
actually looking into it.
And when I did each time that Itook a test, I tested as a two
and I was fully convinced that Iwas a two until I read the
(25:11):
description for the four.
And I was like, Oh my goodness,this is me from head to toe.
So I had a good friend who camealongside me, who's a coach.
And I told her, I said, I don'tunderstand how I could have so
much self awareness.
I'm sorry, so much emotional,like intelligence concerning
other people, and then stillhave like this blind spot
concerning myself.
(25:31):
So I was just in a really hardplace.
And she began to describe, youknow, the traits of a four to
me.
And it just, I felt sovulnerable and exposed that it
was a gift.
She said, I thought you were forjust based off of how you dress,
but I want you to have it thaton your own.
So I'm so thankful to have hadsuch a healthy coach to come
(25:53):
alongside me
Jeff (25:54):
now.
And then whenever you had thisamazing insight regarding
yourself, uh, as we've mentionedbefore, typically we immediately
start to ask questions.
Well, what's my spouse or thesignificant people in my life
and what are my kids?
So, uh, Melvin, what, what wasthat like when Toya introduced
it to you?
Melvin (26:13):
Um, to be honest, I, I was like, what is this, you
know, and, and well, the more Iread about fives, then the more
it makes sense that I, you know,I, I really wasn't that, um,
into it, uh, at first and she,um, she, she kind of explained a
(26:37):
lot to me and I'm still learninga lot, you know?
Um, and so.
But a lot of the tendencies areme, you know, I have a large
tendency to compartmentalize and
Jeff (26:49):
yes,
Melvin (26:50):
uh, when I was reading about parenting and some of my
tendencies, they are true.
I, I,
Jeff (26:56):
yeah.
Melvin (26:57):
You know, with our kids, I tend to be, um, very intense
and, uh, I, I, the word isn'treally controlling, but
authoritative.
Authoritative would probably bebetter.
Jeff (27:10):
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
Melvin (27:11):
And, and, um, and that is me all and about feelings
when it comes to feelings and meexpressing them.
I can com compartmentalize verywell.
And yeah, in terms of ourchildren.
Um, you know, we have twodaughters and three sons and,
uh, I, I, um, well, mydaughters, I used to just, you
(27:35):
know, when they started gettingemotional and stuff, it was, You
know, now I understand why Iwould, you know, like, why can't
you just turn this off?
It's not productive, but I knowthat I know why.
Beth (27:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and yeah, so then tell usyour, your kids ages and, you
know, and are they old enough toknow the Enneagram?
And if so, what's that beenlike?
Tell us a little bit more aboutthem.
Toya (28:05):
Okay, so we have three adult children.
It's like we have two sets ofkids.
They are ages 18, 20 and 23 andolder to, um, know their type.
We have a son who is a four andthen we have a daughter who's a
four wing five and that has beensuper eye opening for us to see,
(28:29):
um, you know, components of ourown personality reflected and
then heard.
Incredible brilliance anduniqueness shine through.
Um, and then our 18 year old,she's an eight.
Well, I'm sorry.
She's 18.
So she's shaping up like a solideight right now.
Um, Then our younger three areages 11, 12, and 13.
Beth (28:54):
So what has it been like for you guys to learn about your
type and see your parentingstyles?
What have you learned the most,uh, maybe just recently about
your type and how you parentfrom that type?
Toya (29:05):
You know what, Beth, I've learned, um, through the
awareness of the Enneagram justcoupled with radical grace, Is,
I no longer use shame to try tocontrol my kids, but I use grace
to console them.
Beth (29:22):
Yeah.
Jeff (29:24):
Now, how is that?
What's that look like for yourown personal journey as a four?
And how does that relate toextending grace to yourself and
then extending grace to yourkids?
That's a
Toya (29:34):
good question.
You know, Jeff, I've got a greatstory about that.
Um, just diving deep into.
you know, the wounding childhoodmessage of a four, I realized
along my journey tocertification that I, for one,
my mom's a five.
So my observation was if Melvinis capable of loving me so well,
(29:58):
rather than me believe this,This message that says, my mom
has no interest in me.
Why not just express that to herthat that's what I've always
longed to hear.
And so I called my mom one day,I had a really raw conversation
and shared with her how, becauseI'm a mom, I know that she loves
(30:19):
me.
In my head, but I never felt itin my heart.
And
Beth (30:22):
it
Toya (30:23):
wasn't that to her, she just rose to the occasion and I
was blown away because I thoughtpeople are just people like I've
made my mom out to be thisboogie monster in the closet.
And the reality is is that shewas a little girl with her own
childhood messages.
And so that was super eyeopeningand our younger three are
(30:44):
adopted.
And I realized that if.
If here I am in my mid forties,I still long to be affirmed by
my mom or to know that she lovedme.
How much more do my boys need toknow that they are so fully
loved?
And so I had a really, um, I hada really just heavy conversation
(31:06):
with my boys and kind of probedtheir hearts to see if they
might have an interest inhearing a message from their
biological mother.
And somehow God gave me theforesight.
When I first met theirbiological mom to ask her to
record a message to them Ithought that someday they'd have
questions and they would benefitfrom hearing in her own words
(31:29):
And so I asked all three of themindividually if they if they
could talk to their mom Um, whatwould they say?
And two of them said I wouldwant her to know that I I love
her And that I miss her and theywere one two and three when we
adopted them.
So I was kind of shocked But
Jeff (31:48):
I could
Toya (31:48):
just see that Human desire to connect with your mom.
And so my next question was ifyou could if you could hear her
voice Would you want to andy'all I thought that maybe
someday they'd be 18 or in theircollege years That's what I was
going to save this recording forAnd they both emphatically said
yes, and so I played it to themand their response was just
(32:12):
tears and When I checked in withthem to see how they were doing,
I said, are you okay, buddy?
And one of them said, yes, mama,I'm okay.
Because now I know that sheloves me.
And so they both said, I knowthat she placed, she didn't give
me away because she didn't loveme.
She gave me away because sheloved me so much.
(32:35):
And so I just, I was so thankfulthat here, I believe this lie my
whole life, um, that sent meinto myself and just.
Having that insight of how muchit impacted me to know that my
mom loved me I wanted to givethat gift to them.
Yeah, so I hope that answers thequestion like oh man, that
Jeff (32:56):
is Incredible.
I So I was adopted as well.
Um, and and when I was 30 yearsold found my biological mother
uh and had thought about itduring my teen years, but one of
the most interesting things thatI walked away from the whole
experience and she has sincedied and We had Started to
develop a relationship, uh afterwe first met Um, but she had uh,
(33:22):
she was catholic and she had apocket rosary now They look like
little coins and then it lookslike a little rosary around a
ring Uh with a cross at the topof it, but she carried that with
her and every time she bumpedinto it Throughout her day, she
would be reminded to pray forme.
(33:42):
And as a type six wondering,does anyone see and can anyone
help as a kid?
And all my experiences to knowthat she was praying for me just
meant the world.
Now there were other aspects andinsights, but that's the one
that I carried with me so much.
Like she, she pulled me asideafter a couple of years of being
(34:04):
in relationship again.
And.
Uh, she gave it to me and I, Istill have it and I treasure it
every time I think about it.
Like it just hits right at myheart and the core of who I am
as a man.
And that like you were saying,mid forties and you still want
to hear from mom and dad.
I love you.
You're doing great.
Beth (34:21):
Yes.
And here in your specific way,which really is the core
longing.
And so the core longing of thefour to hear you are loved and
seen for exactly who you arespecial and unique.
And then as a five to hear yourneeds are not a problem.
You know, to hear that from yourfamily would, would just usually
for that, that person means theworld.
Melvin, does that kind of landon you that way?
Melvin (34:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
One of our sons didn't want tohear his mom and we thought that
was strange, but, um, I, well, Ithought it was strange, but, but
Toya explained it, you know, hestill has, he was the oldest,
you know, and so he still hassome resentment and that, you
know, he feels like that, Andhe's still angry.
Jeff (35:06):
Yes.
Melvin (35:07):
And so, so that was, you know, that was, um, it was, it's
interesting, you know, for theyounger three, younger two to
want to hear, but the oldest notto.
And that was just a differentdynamic, uh, in terms of that,
uh, interaction.
Beth (35:24):
Yeah.
Jeff (35:24):
Well, one of the things that the Enneagram brings to our
parenting is that it helps toclarify or give vocabulary to
what we're great at and what westruggle with as parents.
Yeah.
No, Melvin, you started to speakto this a little bit earlier
about maybe a little moreauthoritative, uh,
compartmentalized.
(35:45):
Um, what are some strengths thatyou bring to your parenting as a
type five?
Melvin (35:52):
Um, I would, I would say, uh, I don't know.
I think it's a blessing and acurse.
Sometime I will be, you know, Iwill be authoritative.
And, and, um, but I, in a lot ofways I kept a lot of foolishness
at bay, but, um, uh, still, youknow, I can still be soft and
(36:16):
I'm learning how to be, uh,less, less authoritative when my
daughters, especially when mydaughters are trying to reason
to me because they kind of, theykind of go internal when they
feel like they're not beingheard.
Okay.
So,
Jeff (36:32):
yes.
Melvin (36:33):
So, um, I think as a strength, uh, in terms of that
is to not, uh, when they, whenthey start talking emotional,
like, uh, there was an instancewhen my daughter, she, she
wanted to quit the band and, youknow, she had been in band in
high school and she was in bandin college and she wanted to
(36:55):
quit the band and it was a veryemotional thing for her.
And I, you know, I was justlike, well, it's a scholarship.
You need to stay in the banduntil you, you know, it was a
lot of pressure, you know, it'slike, I'm standing in a band
only because dad wants me tostay in a band.
And I'm like, I want you to bein a band because it costs
(37:16):
money.
But, and so I kind of tookanother approach in terms of,
Uh, just encouraging her, look,I, um, why not, you know, look
for other scholarships, youknow, use your drawing, uh, do
something to that, replace theband money.
And you don't have to be in aband, you know, I'm not, I don't
want you in a band just because,uh, you get a scholarship.
(37:38):
If you get money another way,that'd be good too, you know?
And so,
Jeff (37:41):
yes.
Melvin (37:42):
And so without even updating me on it, she went and,
you know, And totally got ascholarship that paid for the
rest of her college.
And I was amazing.
And, and she was like liberatedfeeling like, you know, she had
a new lease on life because hedidn't have to be in the band,
but I think
Beth (38:01):
you're type eight.
This is our four.
This is our four daughter.
Melvin (38:06):
A lot like her mom in terms of like, And I, and I'm,
I'm learning to, um, I think mystrength is to, uh, not, uh, to
like, even though I, a lot oftimes I do not get emotional
with him, I can still just bequiet and, um, what's, what's
(38:30):
the word, um, the empathy thing.
That's the empathy.
Yeah.
My wife has helped me with someempathy training.
Yes.
To say, you know, I canunderstand how this is difficult
for you, you know, and like, andactually, um, you know, use the
correct language to make herfeel heard and not, um, and so
(38:51):
that way, even though by defaultI come compartmentalize, it
doesn't mean that I can't usetools to, uh, let my daughters,
let my kids in and, and beemotional and not, you know,
even with my sons, you know, I,I know that they need, you know,
physical touch and, and, andhugs and stuff.
And so we, you know, even timeswhen I'm like, well, they're
(39:13):
getting old, but they still comeup and hug me and say good night
and stuff like that.
And I'm, and I'm like, they,they need that because they're
children and, you know, and, andit's, it's, it's doing something
for them.
So,
Jeff (39:24):
you
Melvin (39:25):
know, I, I tend to do that.
I, I, I'm more conscious thatI'm doing it and make sure I
don't just.
Cut off, you know what I mean?
And so yeah,
Jeff (39:33):
well tell you what about yourself Um, tell me what what
are some strengths that youbring as a type 4 mother
Toya (39:40):
I would say.
Um affirming our kids uniquenessand pursuing them, um making
sure that they understand thatthey are loved and celebrated
for who they are and how theyshow up in the world.
Um, definitely a strength.
I think that just the, just the,it's amazing how much of a game
(40:05):
changer self awareness is.
Our oldest son once told me howI used to invalidate his emotion
and how I would always one uphim with like a story that was
way sadder than his story.
And so now that I can, um, seeand celebrate my own divine
(40:30):
design instead of.
slipping into some shame cyclewhen my kids give me really
honest feedback like that.
It's just helping me to connectand to humanize and not go into
perfectionistic mode or not gointo the validating like I was
only trying to help.
So it's just a healthy balanceto be able to See them to
(40:56):
celebrate them and to give themthe liberty to make mistakes.
Um, when I'm passionate aboutsomething, I have that side of
me that wants to do everythingright.
And I'm just grateful for thegospel that perfectionism is
just way overrated.
Jeff (41:13):
Yes.
Toya (41:13):
So it's helped me to give them grace.
But it's also helped me toextend grace to myself when I
feel like I've blown it as amom.
Jeff (41:22):
Yeah, so
Toya (41:22):
good.
Beth (41:23):
Well as we wrap it up, what would you guys, like what's
one word of encouragement youcan give to all these other
parents that are out therewanting to use the insights of
the Enneagram from a GospelCenter perspective?
What would, what would you guysdo or say as an encouragement to
them?
So
Toya (41:40):
as a type four, my one word would be enough and that is
you are enough as a parent andenough is enough.
Yeah.
God gave your kids to you.
You are
Beth (41:53):
enough.
Yeah.
Toya (41:54):
Yeah.
Beth (41:54):
That's great.
Yeah.
Toya (41:55):
So that's my, that's my affirmation is you are enough,
but my accountability isalready, I mean, it's also.
Enough is enough.
Like it's, it's enough.
Your best is do your best andtrust God to do the best.
Jeff (42:09):
That's right.
Melvin, what about you?
I
Melvin (42:11):
think mine would be, um, uh, to sum it up is, is
dedication in terms of like,when, when we had our children,
we dedicated them to the Lord.
So it's, it's really God'sresponsibility to take care of
our children is, and we're juststewards over that.
(42:32):
So, um, I can't protect them atall times.
I can't.
I can't, um, do anything.
My, my, my whole thing is justto make sure that, uh, to put
the burden on the Lord and thatway, It's not a, you know, I'm,
I'm just praying to be the bestparent that God would have me to
be for my children and, and makethe steps extremely, uh, easy to
(42:57):
follow if they're
Jeff (42:59):
his, they're
Melvin (43:00):
his kids, you know, so I don't, I just kind of try and
look at it like that.
Jeff (43:06):
That's awesome.
Oh, thank you for sharing thatwhat a great reminder
Beth (43:09):
And thanks guys just for being so vulnerable and sharing
what it's like to be a type fourand five couple type
Jeff (43:15):
I did want to ask one other question, but when we have
spoken with other couples ofcolor and One of the insights
that we've come to understand isthat each community kind of
values certain types more thanothers or values them in
different ways.
Would you be open to answering aquestion about, I mean, within
(43:38):
your community, what do you,what kind of parents are more
valued or What kind of parentingstrategies or parenting values
are kind of elevated Over othersand then maybe how your unique
parenting style as from yourtype How that might be different
does that question make sense?
Toya (43:58):
Yeah, it does make sense.
Um, I think that Based on, forexample, I've seen a lot of
women who have been mistyped, alot of African American women
who have been mistyped as AIDSbecause of the stigma that
(44:18):
they're the angry black woman,and they could be, um, they
could be fives that are in ahealthy place, or I've seen,
People may be praised for beingthat protective mama bear that
is the challenger who is a, andI've also seen maybe almost like
(44:42):
a, it depends on what circleyou're in.
If you're in a church circle, Ithink that people want to like
condition Everybody to be a, tolike, I just want everybody to,
you know, to help and to, ormaybe, yeah, it's, it's
interesting.
I, um, in terms of parenting, Ican't say what type of male
(45:07):
parent I've seen praised becauseI really see, I see Melvin
affirmed so much for the type offather that he is.
He was the father of the year afew years back in our city.
And, um, I think just his.
Self reliance and his tenacityto just persevere and figure
(45:28):
everything out is esteemedreally highly.
But I have a compassion and kindof a burden for, for dads who
are fours, like for dads who arenines, who their voice and their
presence hasn't been valued andcelebrated.
So, um, Yeah, it's that's that'sa that's a really layered
(45:49):
question because it all dependson the context that it's in.
But that's something I wouldlove to speak to.
I think the Enneagram is anamazing tool and I would love to
see it more widely spread withincommunities of color because I
think that far too quickly, um,We can demonize and
(46:13):
mischaracterize that which wedon't understand.
And yet we don't know what wedon't know because couple with
the gospel is liberating toolI've ever seen.
And it's just that it's a tool.
So, yeah, I'm sorry for thattangent, but yeah, Toya.
Jeff (46:30):
I am so grateful.
Um, recently celebrated, uh,your certification, right?
You just finally passed the, uh,becoming an Enneagram coach
course.
So we are overjoyed having you,uh, as part of the community and
kind of paving away and bringinginsights just like what you both
have regarding your ownparenting.
(46:50):
And it's also how it relates torace and community.
Uh, so grateful for your voiceand all of this and willingness
to take time to, to share aboutyour experience.
I mean, yikes, man, we covered alot in this brief amount of
time.
You guys are awesome.
Yeah.
Beth (47:06):
Wow, I hope that you guys enjoy that as much as I did.
Hearing from Libby, Tyler, Toya,and Melvin, man, what
differences people have in theirown parenting style, but how the
Enneagram can be that gamechanger.
But as always, remember that theEnneagram reveals your need for
Jesus, not your need to workharder.
(47:27):
It's the gospel that transformsus.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
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