December 16, 2024 • 48 mins
Today on the podcast Beth and Jeff discuss two reasons many of us have a difficult time, emotionally, when we visit family.
Beth helps us recognize our interpreted childhood message- a painful message we were told directly or sensed indirectly when we were children. She also takes a deep dive into our blindspot paths and gives us tools for some profound insights into how we’ve been seeing the world for our entire lives.
We have many more amazing Enneagram for Moms resources at www.enneagramformoms.com.
FREE Enneagram resources here: https://www.yourenneagramcoach.com/podcastresources
Find an Enneagram Coach - https://myenneagramcoach.com/
Become an Enneagram Coach Course - https://www.yourenneagramcoach.com/bec
#Enneagram #PersonalityTypes #EnneagramCoach
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Beth (00:00):
Well, hey everyone, this is your Enneagram Coach, the
podcast.
Jeff (00:02):
We're all familiar with all the varied Uh, we're going
to talk about feelings andemotions that we're all going
through as it relates to goinghome.
Sometimes we're excited, but wealso anticipate there's going to
be conflict or big issues totalk about.
Uh, we may be experiencingdread, but it could be a great
experience.
Well, all of the emotions, we'regoing to help to clarify what's
actually happening inside ofyou.
(00:24):
So you can understand about whatit means to go home.
We want to dive a little deeperinto those feelings and give you
some tools to work through sothat, um, not only can you
connect with your own heart, butconnect with your family and
maybe even your spouse and yourown children in a deeper way
than maybe you have in the past.
Yeah.
Before we dive into our topEnneagram content for this
(00:45):
particular episode, Bethy, Ithought we'd talk a little bit
about just our own experience offamily What that's been like
over the years, I, Beth and I'vebeen married, uh, 26 years now.
What was I like going home?
Beth (01:04):
Wow.
Well, we didn't, you just threwthat right on my lap.
It's like, uh, and you ask anine, I feel like a deer in the
headlights.
Okay.
Let me think.
Um, what were you like when youwent home?
Jeff (01:18):
Or what were you surprised about, uh, in going home that.
Relating to me about going home.
Beth (01:24):
Well, the one thing, um, that is always kind of forefront
and paramount when going home toDallas is everyone wants to see
you.
Jeff (01:40):
I don't believe that's true, but I, Beth has observed
over the years that my dad lovesto throw these big gatherings
whenever I come home.
And it's true.
Whenever I went to theUniversity of Kansas, I My mom
said, you're gonna marry aKansas girl and never come home
and she was right.
(02:00):
I remember asking Beth like,hey, could we get married like
in Oklahoma?
And she's like, hell no.
But, but that to say, I like, doyou notice that I'm a different
person whenever I'm at home?
Beth (02:14):
Um, I would say probably the one thing that I do observe
when you get home is two things.
Either you're like super fun andyou're wanting to do all the fun
things or you're super chilllike Sit in the lazy boy and
watch TV with the rest of thefamily and like, let's not do
(02:35):
anything.
Jeff (02:35):
Yeah, well, I can remember early on, I very early on, we
would spend time with bestparents.
I mean, we were still incollege.
We didn't have any money.
So Um, we'd go into Kansas Cityand they would inevitably take
us out to dinner or whatever andwe'd spend time with them.
But you know, there was, it wasinteresting being with Beth
because whereas she was attunedto me, I found that whenever she
(02:57):
was around her parents that shewas very attuned to them and
their emotions, feelings, andthoughts.
And at times those kind ofthings kind of rubbed against
each other.
You know, one of the interestingthings that I can remember about
going home is that early on inmarriage.
I was comfortable with having anargument with you in front of
(03:17):
your parents.
Beth (03:18):
And
Jeff (03:22):
I don't know exactly how I would imagine it went through
your parents to your brother,but I remember your brother
asking you like, is everythingokay?
Because Jeff and Beth fight somuch.
Beth (03:31):
Well, yeah, because In my household, you don't fight.
No one ever fights.
Yeah.
There
Jeff (03:38):
was never an argument whatsoever.
Beth (03:40):
So it was like, what is this?
And of course being a nine, Iwas like, I didn't want that
either, but you were much moreauthentic and real.
And you know, that counterphobicsix, like saying what needs to
be said.
Um, yeah, I've
Jeff (03:52):
been so provocative with your appropriate parents.
Yes.
Like, it's not healthy either.
It's not good at all.
But not only is thatprovocativeness a part of me,
but how else in recent years,because we've talked about this
frequently, how, what do I actlike whenever I'm around your
parents now?
Beth (04:11):
Quiet.
Jeff (04:13):
Very quiet.
Beth (04:14):
Very quiet.
But very, um, I don't know ifthe word's disengaged.
Jeff (04:21):
I'm not disassociated.
That may be the word that you'relooking for.
But I am certainly disengaged.
Yeah, I
Beth (04:26):
guess that's right.
You're not disassociated.
You're just disengaged.
You're disengaged.
Yeah.
Jeff (04:31):
And why don't you tell everyone what, what's your
interpretation of what I'm
Beth (04:36):
left alone.
I'm the left alone to figurewhat everyone's going to do.
What are we going to eat?
You know, are we all just goingto sit around?
Are we actually going to dosomething?
And usually that's hard becauseOne, as a knight, I'm thinking
through everyone's likes andpreferences, which usually
knocks out everyone else's likesand preferences.
(04:58):
So it's like, well, I guess wewon't do anything.
Um, but then, you know, I thinkat times, you know, I just, I
want to just kind of shut downbecause I can't think of a way
to make everyone happy.
Um, and I feel like I'm havingto pull the weight because I
know how to read my family.
Whether for the good or the notgood.
(05:20):
Um, and you don't, and sometimesI'll say like, well, Hey, this
is what's going on.
Or this is what I'm observing.
You're like, really?
What are you sure?
I'm like, yes, I know very well.
Jeff (05:31):
It's like, she's reading tea leaves.
I mean, I have no idea what inthe world she's talking about.
And, and if I were honest, Iwould say some of it, I think is
real.
And some of it also isinterpreted potentially don't
want to commit it.
make wrong assumptions.
Um, but I mean, even like youcan kind of hear in our
(05:52):
conversation, like we're, we'retalking honestly here about real
examples of what it's likewhenever we go home, even though
we are well into our own mentalhealth and into the Enneagram to
be able to have vocabulary aboutthis, but it still shows up.
I know that for me and myexperience in being with your
family, now that we have, Uh,two kids, now that we have two
kids, we've had them for a whilenow.
(06:14):
they're like adults now.
That's such a strange term.
But it's funny.
I'm going to own them now, okay?
I've tried to get rid of themfor years and now they're here.
Oh my gosh.
Um, but what I was going to sayis, um, I would say around your
family, because the kids werealways, So excited about being
(06:35):
with them.
And so they bring a lot ofenergy to the room.
You're reading parents andthey're responding as well.
And they're kind of a caretakersas well.
And so they're responding tokids and they're responding to
you.
And this nine part of my heart,you know, the six moves to nine.
And, um, I call that nine partof my heart, Phil.
(06:56):
Um, but Phil just kind of comesonline and I just try not to
bring, um, Any energywhatsoever, because I know that
you're attuning to all thesedifferent things around you, and
I just want to lower my energylevel because if in the past.
When I have gotten, I call myseven wing El McGordo, but, uh,
(07:17):
because he's fun, gregarious andjust outgoing and adventuresome.
But if he shows up, that makesyou very uncomfortable because
then not only are youuncomfortable, but you're
thinking about your parents andwhether or not it's making them
uncomfortable.
Is that fair to say?
Beth (07:31):
Yeah, I wouldn't say that I'm uncomfortable.
I'm uncomfortable if I thinkthey're uncomfortable.
Yeah.
I'm used to your El McCordo forthe most part.
I mean, definitely.
Sometimes he goes way off, youknow, line way
Jeff (07:45):
off line, but
Beth (07:47):
for the most part, I think it's fun, but yeah, if it's like
inappropriate or like, you know,way past their generational
understanding, you know, it'slike, Oh man, I've, I'm just
thinking of all the ways I, Ineed to help everyone have a
good time or not feel awkward orweird or.
Outside, you know, they don'tunderstand what's going on.
(08:09):
So I'm just,
Jeff (08:10):
and then even applies to the kids.
Like you're managing the kids tonot, this was earlier on, not
now.
We're not walking in with ouryoung 20 somethings.
Like, here's what's going to beappropriate when you go to gimme
and pop
Beth (08:21):
right, right.
Or like we would all be in thevan and they're in the back,
like laughing, teasing, gettingupset or whatever.
And I'm like, guys, you're neverlike this, except for when my
parents are in the car.
Can you please stop, you know?
And so, yeah, I'm.
I, as a nine, um, and I thinkeveryone's this way, but as a
nine, I'm hyper aware of all thedynamics, very aware.
(08:44):
And it's exhausting.
Now, of course, over the years,I've had to learn what does it
look like to continue to beaware?
Because I think as a nine,that's just a superpower I have
that can go awry, but how can Iuse that superpower and not
overtake me?
Um, and I'll be honest, it'sstill a challenge.
It's still a challenge.
You know, we're coming up here,uh, for Christmas and my parents
(09:07):
will be here.
And I'm really excited because,you know, I don't get to see
them that much.
They live in Kansas city.
We're in Nashville and becauseof COVID, we just haven't seen
them as much as we would have.
So, I mean, I'm looking forwardto it, but you know, there's,
we're two totally differentfamilies actually now.
We have three or four differentfamilies.
Our kids are living their ownlives.
We have our life, and then myparents, you know, they live
(09:28):
their own type of life.
And so how to navigate that in ahealthy way so that I don't
succumb to everybody's wishesand whims and feel the
responsibility in caretaking,um, I have, I'm proud of.
Um, and so I think it's reallyimportant that we all have a
great time and we don't fallinto some of those old habitual
(09:49):
patterns.
Jeff (09:50):
That's right.
Well, we've talked a little bitabout family of origin stuff,
uh, throughout the urinogramcoach platform.
But, you know, here's thereality is that, you know, our,
our type, plays a role in ourfamily of origins.
I mean, my sixness, yournineness, uh, there's a way in
which the family related to thatand there were ways that it
(10:13):
manifests itself in our familyof origin that maybe have
changed since adulthood.
And what's interesting nowhaving older kids, uh, one of
the things, um, even ourdaughter, when we, uh, were
telling her that Gammy and Papawere coming in town, she, uh,
said to Beth, like, Oh, I wasreally hoping that we'd be able
to spend some time together.
And plus, I know that you neededsome rest.
(10:33):
Well, she's commenting on Youand who you become when you're
around your parents, even yourkids will start to pick up on
some of these changes.
Well, inevitably that will leadto conflict between us about
your family.
Uh, now it could potentiallylead to conflict with it.
Not that we're going to haveconflict with our kids, but it
could have or may have in thepast.
Beth (10:54):
Especially if we're unaware of what's going on and
we don't name it and talk itthrough for sure.
Yeah, it can become, cause weall think that we're doing our
family, me.
Justice, you know, like we'reseeing it through the lens of
how we grew up and most of thetime when you go home, you
revert back to a lot of oldpatterns, or at least the family
wants you to, you know, they'reused to you being a certain way.
And if you've grown, they reallydon't understand those new
(11:17):
dynamics.
And, um, so we have to be alsoready for that.
Like that, if we've grown inhealthy ways, um, Um, you know,
to recognize that there'll bethe pull and the tension to
revert back to some old, um,negative patterns or unhealthy
patterns.
Um, but also the desire to stayhealthy, but then also the
family's desire to pull you in.
(11:38):
Um, and, and to have clearcommunication of what that looks
like, whether it's to the wholefamily or even maybe it's a
spouse or a sibling thatunderstands your growth and um,
desires.
Jeff (11:50):
So here's the good news about what we're going to be
spending the rest of our timetalking about is that we're
going to get into the bedrockreally some of the main wiring
of each of our Enneagram typeshere so much of the conflict and
conversations preparing forbeing with your family is all
behavior and emotion management.
(12:11):
You're just trying to surviveand get through it, but you've
never thought about where someof these.
It's all this energy starts tohappen in your body and in your
heart that manifests itself inyour behaviors, your fears, your
emotions, all these differentthings.
And what that's called is yourinterpreted childhood message.
(12:35):
And it affects.
Everything about how we relate
Beth (12:39):
Yeah, well, and let me just.
Back up for just a secondbecause the interpretive child
message is going to pop upbecause of the foundational
understanding of your coremotivations.
Now, if you've listened to me,you've heard me talk about core
motivations all the time becauseit's essential to understand
your core motivations.
your core fear, desire,weakness, and longing.
(12:59):
And if you don't know what thoseare, please go to
urineandgrahamcoach.
com forward slash coremotivations and download a free
PDF.
One, you want to look at yourcore motivations and really
understand what is the drivingforce behind why you think,
feel, and behave in particularways.
But then it also will give youinsight into the people in your
family and why they do what theydo.
(13:20):
So the interpretive message isBasically, a part of the
Enneagram, so there's lots ofdifferent things that we could
talk about the Enneagram.
This is one part, and this is apainful message that you were
either told directly or sensedindirectly when you were growing
up.
So, please note that there's notalways a particular event or
(13:41):
something that happened thatsomeone directly said this to
you.
That may have happened, but alot of times it's you know,
You've just picked this upsomewhere, somehow an event
happened and you interpretedwhat was going on or said around
you in a very particular way.
So I'll give you an example forme as a type nine, my
(14:01):
interpreted childhood message isit's not okay to assert yourself
or make too much of yourself.
So the story that I relate tothat one, um, goes all the way
back to.
1980.
Jeff (14:15):
The drama and intrigue.
Such an introduction to a story.
Beth (14:22):
So 1980, I was five years old.
So now you guys can like do allthe math.
Um, But yeah, so as far as oldmy dad was an allergist and so
back in the the dayPharmaceutical reps would come
to his office and not just giveDrug samples, you know medicine
to give to patients but backthen they would give you
(14:43):
trinkets and toys and pens Sothis one
Jeff (14:50):
I do remember going to your home and getting Zyrtec
pens because they were likereally cool looking pens and I
would use them in college.
Yeah,
Beth (14:58):
that's true.
And they worked good And theywere free.
They were free and we were poorBut yeah, so my dad from the
pharmaceutical, you know companygave him these little address
books They were blue and I mean,I was actually searching on
Google the other day to see if Icouldn't find them Oh sure, and
I couldn't but anyway, they wereblue and they fit in your shirt
(15:20):
pocket.
So they were pretty small Yeah,real thin and
Jeff (15:23):
the original iPhone.
Beth (15:25):
Yeah, exactly My dad still uses that but um On the side, I
think it said like 1980 and likethis real 80s font.
And then I think somewhere ithad like the the drug's name.
But anyway, so real small, realthin, just paper.
No one really wants this, let'sjust be honest.
But I was five years old and Ithought, okay.
(15:46):
I have 12 of these.
What am I going to do with them?
And then I had this brilliantidea that I was going to go from
house to house in theneighborhood and sell them for 5
cents.
Because, of course, who doesn'twant an address book, right?
Especially this fancy one.
For five cents as I have thisbrilliant idea, so I go to my
(16:06):
neighbors across the street andI'm sure they, they gave me five
cents and they kind of giggledand you know, I went to the next
house and I'm thinking, and Idid this like three times and
I'm thinking, I am killing it.
Like look at me.
Jeff (16:18):
I mean, I, I can't, if Nate or Libby were to walk
around selling something door todoor at five years old, like
that, even just that in itselfis kind of crazy.
But the fact that you're thisentrepreneurial heart that would
take decades before it reallyshown here you are living your
best life selling these, can youimagine the, how many pieces of
(16:41):
gum you could get,
Beth (16:43):
especially back then.
So I did that like three times.
And then my mom.
Open the door and she saw me andI think she could kind of tell
what I was doing.
And she called me home and Icame home and, you know, of
course I'm thinking, yeah, I'mkilling it.
Jeff (16:57):
You know, I'm going to show her how awesome I've been.
Beth (17:00):
And.
My mom was very kind, but shejust said in her very six
responsible appropriateViewpoint of life is Beth.
We do not do that.
That is inappropriate.
You need to go back and Give themoney back to our neighbors.
We don't sell things like thatto our neighbors
Jeff (17:18):
See as a counterphobic six, I would have affirmed it
like that is amazing Like youjust you overcome so much fear
and just went out there and didit Well,
Beth (17:25):
that's why I said like my mom my phobic mom's Heart at the
time, you know is probablymoving into that three space
where she's thinking what arethe neighbors gonna think?
You know this girl going aroundselling really cheap address
books that nobody wants Well,
Jeff (17:42):
the calendars are address books.
No, they're address booksaddress.
Okay,
Beth (17:46):
and You know, and so I'm sure she felt a little bit of
embarrassment.
Plus, you know, you don't reallygo around selling stuff in the
neighborhood, unless it's likefor fundraisers.
I mean, this is
Jeff (17:57):
really good, because what emotions were, do you think you
were feeling at the time?
Maybe you remember, maybe youdon't.
Beth (18:03):
When she said that?
Oh, total shame.
Jeff (18:05):
Total shame.
Beth (18:06):
Like I just thought, how did I put myself out there and
do something that broughtpossible shame or upset my mom
or upset my family or didsomething wrong?
Like,
Jeff (18:22):
I mean, even at five years old, like you have a sense that
the family has an image that youare partly responsible for
maintaining.
Beth (18:30):
Yeah.
And like I said, my mom, Isn't aperson who heaps on shame or
gets really upset like she wasjust telling me Her viewpoint
coaching
Jeff (18:41):
you as a sixth parent on how to be a six.
Beth (18:43):
Yeah, this is inappropriate you know, this is
not what we do and So, you know,from the interpretive childhood
message, the nine is it's notokay to assert yourself or think
much of yourself it.
That's all I heard, even thoughshe didn't say it, she probably
never meant it to land on myheart that way.
(19:04):
That is how, that is the recordplayer that plays in the type
nines mind.
So that is how I perceived itand that's how I took it into
myself.
And then I lived that out.
So I really from that moment onwas like, I can't assert myself.
Unless I get the okay frompeople.
I want to make sure everyone'sokay.
No one's upset.
I'm not going to create any kindof conflict or any waves and
(19:25):
definitely don't make much ofmyself.
Um, but again, it saddens me forlots of different reasons.
But one thing that saddens meis.
Like, that's not what my mom wastrying to instill in me.
Like, that's not what the wholemessage was, but that's how I
interpret it.
And that's why it's important,the word interpreted childhood
message.
Other people will hear in otherbooks, wounded childhood
(19:45):
message, but that comes acrossas if someone purposely wounded
you.
Now, sometimes it is, sometimesthese messages are directly told
to people and that is wounding.
But like in my instance.
It wasn't intended to wound, itwas intended to teach, intended
to help, um, but I hurt it, andit hurt me, and it, and it
(20:06):
changed the trajectory of how Isaw life.
So I think that's, that's why Ilike to say, tell people my
stories, because it's not alwaysa very specific, direct point.
So let me, um, jump into allnine types so people can hear
theirs and really kind of justthink through, like, was there a
specific event that happened?
Did someone directly say this tome in one form or another?
Jeff (20:28):
And, and one way to get to get to this place is one.
Think of when you've experiencedit recently.
And then to start thinking aboutthe emotions or the
circumstances and see if thatleads you to earlier and earlier
memories to where, you know,maybe over time, weeks, months,
it may take you a year or so, sodon't think that this is an
immediate thing, but to findsort of its origin story because
(20:51):
even the same story at fiveyears old, I, I have stories as
well of when, uh, as a type six,I felt like I, I've gotten
myself in a situation and.
When the reality is, is that Iwas a little kid and I had no
choice but to be in thatsituation.
But I developed a way ofinterpreting life that I can't
trust myself.
So just, it takes time, butuncover that origin because then
(21:15):
you start to realize as anadult, like, wait a minute, why
did I bring that thought to thesituation?
Well,
Beth (21:20):
and we're still living it out today.
Jeff (21:22):
That's right.
We are.
Beth (21:23):
So like for me, you know, even though I started your
Enneagram coach, it took medecades to get there, to get
over this message.
And it's still a message I haveto wrestle with every day
showing up, you know, making,you know, my viewpoints, my
presence heard, um, knowing thatGod has given me a message to,
(21:45):
To deliver to people to helpthem.
It's a daily battle to go, no, Ican't assert myself.
And yeah, I don't want to makemuch of myself.
But I do want to make much ofwhat God has done in and through
me.
For His glory.
So it is a daily wrestling.
This isn't like a one and donething.
So it is good to observe, likeyou said.
How is it affecting you today?
But then also look back and whenwere those moments that you saw
(22:07):
it popping up when you're achild?
Jeff (22:09):
So as Beth is going through some of these, remember,
this is really the, at the coreof all of the relational and
emotional energy that comes, uh,when you, when you're about to
go be with family again, orperhaps even in your existing
family, where it remind you ofFeeling a body sensation, a
(22:29):
conversation reminds you ofsomething from the past.
It's this message that's comingonline and that creates all the
core motivations to startgetting activated and all the
behaviors that come with it.
So Bethany, why don't you gothrough all nine.
Beth (22:42):
Okay.
Type ones, you either directlyheard or thought you heard that
is not okay to be wrong or tomake mistakes.
Type twos, you either heard orthought you heard that it is not
okay to have your own needs.
own needs.
Type threes, you either heard orthought you heard that it is not
okay to have your own feelingsand identity.
Type fours, you heard or thoughtyou heard that it is not okay to
(23:05):
be too much and not enough.
Type fives, you heard or thoughtyou heard that it is not okay to
be too comfortable in the world.
Type sixes, you heard or thoughtyou heard that it is not okay to
trust or depend on yourself.
Type sevens, you heard orthought you heard that it is not
okay to depend on others foranything.
(23:28):
Type eights, you either heard orthought you heard that it is not
okay to trust or to bevulnerable with anyone.
And type nines, you either heardor thought you heard that it is
not okay to assert yourself orthink too much of yourself.
Jeff (23:45):
Man, so these are really profound things.
Insights into each of the ninetypes and so realize that, um,
it takes time to come to restand to recognize, um, that this
is a way a principle that we'veSeeing the world through for our
entire lives.
And so whenever you are having aconversation with your spouse be
(24:08):
sure to Adopt a posture ofcuriosity.
You can't fix this And if youjust storm through the front
door and start trying to talkabout it There's gonna be
resistance because this is avery very tender part of our
lives.
Why because we have It isalmost, it is like a lens that
(24:30):
we have viewed life through ourentire lives.
And it's a lens that haslimitations.
Um, there's, there's no way thatthis principle is not true.
Um, we have lived this out.
It's shaped decisions that we'vemade all throughout our lives.
And so to untangle from that isgoing to take time and a lot of
(24:52):
patience.
But to be able to know and beginto have conversation that it's
really not about this Christmas,but it's about a message that's
in your spouses or your friendsor your heart that is leading
you to these kinds of, this kindof frenetic energy as it relates
to going home again.
Beth (25:12):
Yeah, and I think also we, we want to recognize that this
message is going to pop up fromtime to time and definitely when
you're not expecting it.
And when it happens, the firstthing I think a lot of the times
our human flesh wants to do isto shame ourselves or condemn
ourselves like, Oh, why can't Iget rid of this?
Or why is it here again?
Or haven't I gotten better atthis?
(25:33):
That is not going to help.
Jeff (25:35):
It's, it's really not going to help.
I mean, that was one of thephrases I walked away from my
time with Dan Allender.
Uh, was, you know, the way outof it is through it.
Um, you know, the old, uh, goingon a bear hunt book.
You can't go under it.
You can't go around it.
Oh no, we got to go through it.
And that's the reality of whatit means to address this
(25:56):
message.
And so it may be worth your timeto begin considering how are all
of the thoughts that you have,the expectations that you have,
the dynamics of what's happeningin your emotional life.
Why are those coming up relatedto this message?
And to
Beth (26:11):
be gentle with yourself, you know.
To recognize that this is athought pattern that's been
there for a very long time andto be gentle, be curious, um,
and to bring the scripture, tobring the gospel to bear, to our
heart.
Um, you know, Jesus comes to uswith love and care and
tenderness.
And so we can, Um, be in themidst of these, um, hard
(26:35):
memories and it not overtake us.
Jeff (26:38):
I mean that man, you just saying that it brings to mind
all of those scenes where Jesusis moving towards hurting women,
right?
And he doesn't do so harshly,but he gets to.
These core beliefs aboutsomething that they believe
about themselves or about God.
And this is a very specialmoment that you can have to
(26:59):
spend some time reflectingbecause Jesus has already
answered what your heart islonging to hear.
Well, another important aspectto be aware of when it comes to
being around your familymembers, uh, is your type's
(27:21):
blind spot path.
Now, Beth's going to talk aboutthis a little bit more and
define it, but I found this,this is one of those things that
as you, as I've seen you teachother people about, like it's a
big aha moment for a lot ofpeople.
Very big.
Cause it, and this is one ofthose weird aspects of the
(27:42):
Enneagram that it feels likepeople have been recording you
and like, how did you know that?
Because that's, that's verysecret, but what do you think it
is that people are so surprisedWell, I mean, it's a blind spot,
Beth (27:55):
so they, they don't really realize how much it's a part of
their story and how much itaffects their, their life.
Um, yeah.
So yeah, it,
Jeff (28:05):
so I understand this particularly as it relates to
whether you're talking with aspouse or you're talking with a
friend, it is a blind spot.
Beth (28:14):
It is a blind spot.
And
Jeff (28:15):
so they, they don't see it.
Like there, there is a way inwhich we, uh, I don't know if
it's, it's Uh, that we're notcognitive of it, but we enter
into a way of being and we don'teven see that it's happening,
right?
But until someone else, like ifyou bring your boyfriend or
girlfriend home or maybe youbring a friend over and they're
(28:37):
like, what, who did, who wereyou whenever we walked into the
room?
Well, the blind spot pathactually speaks to it.
So Beth, once you give us thedefinition of what is the blind
spot path.
Beth (28:48):
Yeah, so, um, I took a course, uh, with Russ Hudson
from the Enneagram Institute,um, on the lines and arrows, and
he actually called this thesecurity point, but, um, for me,
it got really confusing when Iwas training people because
security point for some otherteachers is the path of growth
(29:12):
and because you're secure.
That's not what this meant.
So.
We change the terminology whenyou look at the lines and
arrows, we talk about stresspath.
So usually people are veryfamiliar with the stress path,
you know, like for a nine, whenyou're under stress, you can
take on some of the average, theunhealthy aspects of type six
and when you're growing.
So the growth path is when youtake on the healthy attributes
(29:33):
of the type three.
Most people that have lookedinto the Enneagram are very
familiar with your stress pathand your growth path.
Well, there's two more paths.
There's still the same lines,but there's two more paths.
So with the path that younormally go in growth, you can
actually go down that path, takeon the characteristics of the
(29:56):
type that you're connected to inless healthy ways around your
family.
Jeff (30:02):
So for type 9, that means that you can become more like a
type 3?
Beth (30:08):
Yes, in the average to unhealthy ways around the home.
And And again, this is a blindspot path because you don't even
realize that you're accessingthis.
And for the most part, it's likeyou don't even like, I would
never do the less healthy typethree things in normal public,
(30:28):
like just around everyday peopleor even like coworkers because
Jeff (30:32):
I mean, even the way that you, um, show likenesses to
three, it's, it's very private.
Like you don't, you're not avery boastful person, but.
Like there, there's, there'ssome very kind of, I'm proud of
myself comments that she'll makewith the family, with the
family.
Yes, yes,
Beth (30:50):
exactly.
And so, um, and one thing I wantto say is that this isn't so
much that your blind spot pathmeans you're bad.
You're doing something wrong.
Really, actually it's a, we needto go in the growth path, which
is the healthy side of the sametype, but that feels
uncomfortable or weirdsometimes.
(31:11):
And this is kind of like, it'skind of coming out sideways.
Um, and so we're trying to getour needs met, but in a way
that's less healthy.
And so we want to recognizethat, because it can alert us
and wake us up to, well, what isit that I'm needing?
And why am I trying to get it?
accomplished in this lesshealthy way?
How can I change the trajectoryin the path and do it from a
(31:35):
more healthy perspective?
So, because it's the same type.
So type three, I go towards typethree when I'm actually, um,
growing, you know, just ineveryday circumstances.
Okay.
So that's great.
But at the family level, I needto also bring that, that level
of health to the family.
Into the family life, butsometimes I don't because it
feels so hard.
(31:55):
So
Jeff (31:56):
keep this in mind, too So I just as we went through the
interpreted childhood messageRealize that once that message
has been activated then thatgets all the other core
motivations going And this is away of addressing the anxiety of
having those motivations in thatmessage activated and so again
We have to treat this withkindness.
(32:17):
This isn't, Oh, you're doingthat again.
That's your blind spot path.
That's using the Enneagram as asword and, and nor do we want to
use it, uh, to defend ourselvesin our behavior, uh, our
unhealthy behaviors.
And so just remember to treatthis with kindness, but Beth,
and to illustrate this, whydon't you tell us another story
about how your blind spot pathshows up.
Beth (32:38):
Oh, sure.
Focus on me, huh?
No.
Okay.
So, as a type 9, like I said, myblind spot path is moving to
type 3, the admirable achiever.
So, again, normally, um, I, likewhen I'm doing well and I'm
healthy, I'm moving towards thathigh part of 3.
But As a 9, I normally aroundthe everyday person would never
(32:59):
want to promote myself, standout, maybe look arrogant, show
off, and I'm going to evenstruggle to know that my
presence matters, okay?
So it's going to be hard for meto do this kind of self
promotion, hey everyone lookwhat I've done, all that kind of
stuff.
But deep down, I do desire tohear that I have worth and
value, and that, and that's agood longing, right?
(33:21):
That's a good desire in a senseto know that we have worth and
value.
But instead of asking for whatis needed, the affirmation and
encouragement that I'm longingfor, and asking it directly and
assertively, I willinadvertently tell my family
what I did well or what I'veaccomplished that day.
So it might come out kind ofbragging or boastful, like Jeff
(33:43):
said, But I desire to reallyhear them acknowledge what I've
done and for them to affirm me.
I unknowingly believe that thiswill help me to feel that I have
worth.
Since really deep down, I reallyaffirm myself.
And if I don't get theaffirmation or the encouragement
that I'm looking for in thisinadvertent way, I will feel
(34:05):
deflated and worthless.
And when I'm on this blind spotpath, moving to the less healthy
attributes of three around myfamily, I cared greatly and
deeply about what others arethinking, especially in my
family life.
I want to impress them and Iwant to make them happy, but I
want you guys to realize that Iwill almost never do these
(34:28):
characteristics in front ofpeople outside the family.
In fact, I really dislike itwhen I see others showing off,
bragging about what they'vedone, um, looking for attention.
Those attributes are actuallysomething that I really don't
like to see.
And so you can see why thisattribute in myself is a blind
(34:51):
spot for me because it'ssomething I actually feel, um,
adverse to, and yet I actuallydo at home.
Jeff (34:59):
So not only is our interpreted childhood message
impacting us when we're aroundfamily members, but We also can
keep in mind that we have ablind spot path that's also
coming out to bat.
No wonder why we struggle somuch whenever we're going to be
around family for the holidays.
So Beth, why don't you take usthrough each of the blind spots
(35:20):
for each of the Enneagram types.
Beth (35:22):
All right, you guys buckled in ready for this?
All right, so when you're aroundyour family, maybe a best
friend, maybe, but when you'rearound your family and you're,
these are the people you letyour hair down, you kind of act,
you know, in ways that younormally don't, this is what's
sometimes going to happen.
So type ones, your blind spotpath takes you to type seven and
(35:43):
causes you to demand that othersmeet your needs.
criticisms and desires.
You avoid difficult emotions andwill reframe negative situations
to sound more positive.
And you'll look for escapehatches or unhealthy indulgences
to distract yourself from thepressures you face.
Now remember, the blind spotpath is the same direction you
(36:05):
go in your growth path.
And remember, you're doing thesethings because there's actually
a healthier way of actuallyaccomplishing what you, what you
need, but this is coming outsideways.
So you just, instead of shamingyourself and looking at yourself
or what's happening, askyourself curious questions of
what is it that you really needand how can you obtain that in a
healthier way?
(36:26):
Type twos, your blind spot pathtakes you to type four and it
causes you to feel rejectedbecause others are not listening
or accepted, accepting yourhelp.
You feel that others do notunderstand how difficult it is
to be constantly others focusedand you may daydream about
becoming free of always needingto be helpful so that you can
(36:50):
actually focus on your own selfcare.
Type 3.
Your blind spot path takes youto type 6 and causes you to
express your frustration anddread when anxiety arises.
You struggle with more selfdoubt and when blamed or accused
of something you can reactstrongly.
You are more suspicious ofothers and might test loyalties.
(37:13):
Type 4.
Your blind spot path takes youto type 1 and causes you to
focus on flaws and become morejudgmental toward yourself,
others, and even the world.
We're not being perfect or theideal way that you see it.
You may voice your frustrationsand visibly display your
disappointment in your bodylanguage.
You may be impatient andcontrolling when others are
(37:35):
incorrect and not being theirauthentic selves.
And type fives.
For you, your blind spot pathtakes you to type eight and
causes you to assert yourboundaries forcefully and
confront anyone who displeasesyou.
You may interrupt conversationsand question others competence
while asserting your knowledgewith intellectual arrogance.
(37:57):
You can become more secretive,fearing that others will betray
you.
Now, Jeff, here's yours, andwe'll talk about yours here in a
second.
Type sixes.
Your blind spot path takes youto type nine and causes you to
deal with stress by shuttingdown.
You can forget who you arebecause you've chosen peaceful
loyalty over your own passionsand desire.
(38:19):
When you are overwhelmed, youmay stubbornly resist your
demands and express irritationwhen others interrupt or disturb
your comfortable routines.
How does that land on you?
Jeff (38:33):
You mean what I thought was healthiness as I related to
your family?
You're saying is my blind spot.
Beth (38:38):
Yeah, I definitely am.
Jeff (38:40):
Well, I intentionally go to my blind spot.
So it's it's actually a clearspot.
Beth (38:44):
It's a clear spot.
I know I'm doing it now.
I
Jeff (38:47):
mean, I, I really, uh, and you know, And that's why I call
this part of my heart, Phil,because he kind of fills up the
longing because I, I want to beavailable and you know, it's not
like I'm an, I'm an absentfather in the situation.
I'll help to take care of thekids or, or go wherever.
I just don't know where myvoice.
is permitted in the midst of allthe other voices in the
(39:12):
situation.
And I don't want to get introuble with you or do something
that's going to frustrate yourparents.
And so, you know, I just kind ofcalmly, quietly, just.
Kind of go inward, shuteverything down, uh, which is
interesting because I, I thinkthat's the part of my heart that
I would use as a place kickerwhenever I'd go out onto the
(39:33):
field, um, and kick in thosekind of intense moments and so
it, it's actually been a part ofwho I am and it shows up in all
kinds of various ways.
Beth (39:42):
Okay, let's, let's just take this as an example.
So moving to your growth path.
That is for a type six to bemore at rest, to, to not have
your mind so frenetic andthinking, you know, in multiple
directions to actually be calm,to be still, to be present.
Jeff (40:02):
And, and it's so interesting you say it that way
because there is a significantdifference.
When it's growth versus thisblind spot path, right?
Because there have been timesthat i've said to beth like i'm
I am no longer a six.
I am now a nine
Beth (40:17):
When you're in which category when i'm in melancholy?
Yeah, exactly And i'm like youare not a nine.
You're not a nine.
Trust me.
It's still
Jeff (40:26):
in there
Beth (40:27):
But yeah, you've had seasons like when covet hit.
Um, there was a season where um,you couldn't find work Uh during
those seasons when you were athome a lot there wasn't much to
do You You really kind of sunkinto that type nine space and
you really felt like you were atype nine.
Jeff (40:43):
This, when you see me in that space.
How do you feel?
Beth (40:50):
Well, there's part of me that's like, oh awesome.
Let's chill.
This is great And then there'sanother part of me that wants to
shake you and wake you up
Jeff (41:01):
yes, so it's
Beth (41:02):
both right like there's I'm partly getting what Um, and
then the other part of me islike, but no, no, no, no, I want
Jeff, like I married Jeff, like,you know, so it's a both, and
Jeff (41:17):
yeah, there's a lot of ambivalence, um, with, with me.
Beth (41:21):
Yes.
I think this is helpful forpeople to realize that.
We do want you to move towardsthat nine healthy space.
We definitely want you to bringless frenetic energy.
We want you to be more calm andconfident and assured and to go
against the interpretedchildhood message, which says,
don't trust yourself.
We want you to trust yourselfand we want you to move forward
(41:43):
in that with confidence and easeand, and.
If, if that happens around thefamily, then actually a lot of
things happen, like you usuallycome up with like great ideas
and a go to attitude, um, so wedon't just all sit around.
Um, and so we want you to movetowards that nine space, but in
a healthy way.
And I think that's what youultimately want.
(42:05):
It's just at times with ourfamily, we don't know how to
accomplish that.
So we do these less healthyways.
All right, let's move on to typeseven.
Type seven.
Your blind spot path takes youto type eight.
Five, and causes you to befiercely independent, building
up boundaries to protectyourself from others, limiting
your life.
You may need to sort out yourfeelings by being alone and
(42:27):
using your intellect.
And you may grow tired ofconstantly feeling that you need
to be the positive and fun one,that you just need some space to
yourself.
Type 8s, your blind spot pathwill take you to type 2 and
causes you to assume that allyour motives are pure with no
hidden agendas.
You may believe you have to earnlove and affirmation from others
(42:50):
by helping them and that yourneeds and emotions will threaten
your relationships.
Or, you may take offense whenothers don't help and care for
you in the same way that youlove and support them.
Oh, I
Jeff (43:04):
am really excited about this one.
I
Beth (43:05):
know.
When I was writing it, I waslike Oh man, this is terrible.
Okay.
So type nines, your blind spotpath takes you to type three and
notice
Jeff (43:18):
it's your blind.
It's not my blind spot path.
Beth (43:23):
Your blind spot takes you to type three and causes you to
suppress your emotions andidentity so that you can focus
on achieving when someoneexposes your weakness and
failures.
You may feel shame and believeyou are worthless.
Jeff (43:37):
That never.
happens ever.
Beth (43:40):
You can people please and use flattery.
That's
Jeff (43:44):
crazy.
Beth (43:46):
Can I read it?
I can't even read it.
He's chiming in.
Jeff (43:49):
I'm activated Beth.
Beth (43:52):
Okay.
You can people please and useflattery and charm to maintain
harmony and draw attention toyour kindness and generosity.
Oh no.
Jeff (44:05):
I, you know what, Bethany, you are so enlightened that
there's no blindness with you.
Oh my gosh.
When I was,
Beth (44:13):
when I was putting this together and reading it, I'm
like, oh no, guys, it's just sotrue.
Like, I mean, like right nowwe're putting together a
presentation, um, Um, for aretreat that we're doing and
it's a lot of brand new materialand I definitely get really
(44:34):
frustrated.
Like I want to suppress myemotions.
I want to like push everythingto a side and just stay dialed
in and focused on gettingcontent done.
But then when I like show you,particularly you.
Um, what I'm working on, if Idon't get the affirmation I
need, or if you have a negativecomment or like, Hey, we need to
do this instead.
I will feel shame and believethat I'm like worthless to some
(44:57):
degree, not like maybecompletely, but like it really
hits me hard.
And this is so true.
Like I, like I, I go to thistype 3 space with you a lot.
Well, what I'm hoping for all ofyou that are listening is that
you will start to recognize thatyou have a blind spot path.
And for everyone who's like,where can I read this material?
(45:20):
Where is this stuff?
Well, a lot of teachers don'ttalk about it because it's kind
of Enneagram 2.
0.
And so a lot of times we justtalk about the stress path or
the growth path because it's alittle easier just to kind of go
in those two directions than todive deeper.
So in our Enneagram collection,which is our nine Enneagram gift
book journals fromHarperCollins, um, in each of
(45:43):
those, We talk about the blindspot path.
Actually, we talk about all fourpaths.
So there's one for eachEnneagram type, and what's so
cool about them is they're 21day gift book journals.
And every day is a topic, andthey're the same topic for every
type.
So there's general content foreach of the types, and then
there's type specific.
So Jeff and I, if we were to gothrough our journal together, We
(46:07):
would read about let's say theblind spot path and it would
talk about general stuff that'sthe same, but then it would get
type specific and then we couldshare our aha moments like, Oh
my gosh, this is so true.
Kind of like we're doing here.
Jeff (46:19):
Just think about that as you think about driving or
whether or not your family'scoming to your house or you're
going to be traveling over theholidays.
Go grab the journals off ofAmazon, get them shipped as
quick as possible so that youcan actually have a redemptive,
uh, renewing conversation withyour spouse, with your sibling,
with your friends, as you go toexperience family again.
(46:42):
These are actually opportunitiesthat we all have to connect with
one another.
They don't have to be momentswhere we get into an argument
about the Family dynamics when,you know, when it, the
conflict's not even between us,it's about something that's
happening between ourrelationship with our family.
Beth (46:59):
Yeah.
And these books just bring somuch clarity and the 21, I mean,
you could do it in 21 days.
You can do it.
And you know, 21 just readings,they're really, really short on
each topic.
And so, You can do it faster.
You could do it slower.
Um, but it's so powerful to doit with someone else.
And it doesn't have to besomeone of the same type, but
(47:19):
use this to bring clarity andunderstanding.
And it's from a gospel centerperspective.
So the whole point is to helpyou to see how God has created
you to reflect him.
And then how we understand.
Stand when we get off course,how we get misaligned, but how
to get back into alignment.
So the Enneagram collection atAmazon, uh, books, a million,
(47:39):
you name it, Barnes and Noble,uh, get yours.
They're great stocking stufferstoo.
Jeff (47:45):
Well, we hope this episode's helped you to
understand yourself as well asyour role and the dynamics
around your family We hope thatit's going to help you and the
relationships that you have toextend more compassion Empathy
and love for one another
Beth (47:57):
But as always, remember that the Enneagram reveals your
need for Jesus, not your need towork harder.
It's the gospel that transformsus.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
Well, hey everyone, this is your Enneagram Coach, the
podcast.
Jeff (00:02):
We're all familiar with all the varied Uh, we're going
to talk about feelings andemotions that we're all going
through as it relates to goinghome.
Sometimes we're excited, but wealso anticipate there's going to
be conflict or big issues totalk about.
Uh, we may be experiencingdread, but it could be a great
experience.
Well, all of the emotions, we'regoing to help to clarify what's
actually happening inside ofyou.
(00:24):
So you can understand about whatit means to go home.
We want to dive a little deeperinto those feelings and give you
some tools to work through sothat, um, not only can you
connect with your own heart, butconnect with your family and
maybe even your spouse and yourown children in a deeper way
than maybe you have in the past.
Yeah.
Before we dive into our topEnneagram content for this
(00:45):
particular episode, Bethy, Ithought we'd talk a little bit
about just our own experience offamily What that's been like
over the years, I, Beth and I'vebeen married, uh, 26 years now.
What was I like going home?
Beth (01:04):
Wow.
Well, we didn't, you just threwthat right on my lap.
It's like, uh, and you ask anine, I feel like a deer in the
headlights.
Okay.
Let me think.
Um, what were you like when youwent home?
Jeff (01:18):
Or what were you surprised about, uh, in going home that.
Relating to me about going home.
Beth (01:24):
Well, the one thing, um, that is always kind of forefront
and paramount when going home toDallas is everyone wants to see
you.
Jeff (01:40):
I don't believe that's true, but I, Beth has observed
over the years that my dad lovesto throw these big gatherings
whenever I come home.
And it's true.
Whenever I went to theUniversity of Kansas, I My mom
said, you're gonna marry aKansas girl and never come home
and she was right.
(02:00):
I remember asking Beth like,hey, could we get married like
in Oklahoma?
And she's like, hell no.
But, but that to say, I like, doyou notice that I'm a different
person whenever I'm at home?
Beth (02:14):
Um, I would say probably the one thing that I do observe
when you get home is two things.
Either you're like super fun andyou're wanting to do all the fun
things or you're super chilllike Sit in the lazy boy and
watch TV with the rest of thefamily and like, let's not do
(02:35):
anything.
Jeff (02:35):
Yeah, well, I can remember early on, I very early on, we
would spend time with bestparents.
I mean, we were still incollege.
We didn't have any money.
So Um, we'd go into Kansas Cityand they would inevitably take
us out to dinner or whatever andwe'd spend time with them.
But you know, there was, it wasinteresting being with Beth
because whereas she was attunedto me, I found that whenever she
(02:57):
was around her parents that shewas very attuned to them and
their emotions, feelings, andthoughts.
And at times those kind ofthings kind of rubbed against
each other.
You know, one of the interestingthings that I can remember about
going home is that early on inmarriage.
I was comfortable with having anargument with you in front of
(03:17):
your parents.
Beth (03:18):
And
Jeff (03:22):
I don't know exactly how I would imagine it went through
your parents to your brother,but I remember your brother
asking you like, is everythingokay?
Because Jeff and Beth fight somuch.
Beth (03:31):
Well, yeah, because In my household, you don't fight.
No one ever fights.
Yeah.
There
Jeff (03:38):
was never an argument whatsoever.
Beth (03:40):
So it was like, what is this?
And of course being a nine, Iwas like, I didn't want that
either, but you were much moreauthentic and real.
And you know, that counterphobicsix, like saying what needs to
be said.
Um, yeah, I've
Jeff (03:52):
been so provocative with your appropriate parents.
Yes.
Like, it's not healthy either.
It's not good at all.
But not only is thatprovocativeness a part of me,
but how else in recent years,because we've talked about this
frequently, how, what do I actlike whenever I'm around your
parents now?
Beth (04:11):
Quiet.
Jeff (04:13):
Very quiet.
Beth (04:14):
Very quiet.
But very, um, I don't know ifthe word's disengaged.
Jeff (04:21):
I'm not disassociated.
That may be the word that you'relooking for.
But I am certainly disengaged.
Yeah, I
Beth (04:26):
guess that's right.
You're not disassociated.
You're just disengaged.
You're disengaged.
Yeah.
Jeff (04:31):
And why don't you tell everyone what, what's your
interpretation of what I'm
Beth (04:36):
left alone.
I'm the left alone to figurewhat everyone's going to do.
What are we going to eat?
You know, are we all just goingto sit around?
Are we actually going to dosomething?
And usually that's hard becauseOne, as a knight, I'm thinking
through everyone's likes andpreferences, which usually
knocks out everyone else's likesand preferences.
(04:58):
So it's like, well, I guess wewon't do anything.
Um, but then, you know, I thinkat times, you know, I just, I
want to just kind of shut downbecause I can't think of a way
to make everyone happy.
Um, and I feel like I'm havingto pull the weight because I
know how to read my family.
Whether for the good or the notgood.
(05:20):
Um, and you don't, and sometimesI'll say like, well, Hey, this
is what's going on.
Or this is what I'm observing.
You're like, really?
What are you sure?
I'm like, yes, I know very well.
Jeff (05:31):
It's like, she's reading tea leaves.
I mean, I have no idea what inthe world she's talking about.
And, and if I were honest, Iwould say some of it, I think is
real.
And some of it also isinterpreted potentially don't
want to commit it.
make wrong assumptions.
Um, but I mean, even like youcan kind of hear in our
(05:52):
conversation, like we're, we'retalking honestly here about real
examples of what it's likewhenever we go home, even though
we are well into our own mentalhealth and into the Enneagram to
be able to have vocabulary aboutthis, but it still shows up.
I know that for me and myexperience in being with your
family, now that we have, Uh,two kids, now that we have two
kids, we've had them for a whilenow.
(06:14):
they're like adults now.
That's such a strange term.
But it's funny.
I'm going to own them now, okay?
I've tried to get rid of themfor years and now they're here.
Oh my gosh.
Um, but what I was going to sayis, um, I would say around your
family, because the kids werealways, So excited about being
(06:35):
with them.
And so they bring a lot ofenergy to the room.
You're reading parents andthey're responding as well.
And they're kind of a caretakersas well.
And so they're responding tokids and they're responding to
you.
And this nine part of my heart,you know, the six moves to nine.
And, um, I call that nine partof my heart, Phil.
(06:56):
Um, but Phil just kind of comesonline and I just try not to
bring, um, Any energywhatsoever, because I know that
you're attuning to all thesedifferent things around you, and
I just want to lower my energylevel because if in the past.
When I have gotten, I call myseven wing El McGordo, but, uh,
(07:17):
because he's fun, gregarious andjust outgoing and adventuresome.
But if he shows up, that makesyou very uncomfortable because
then not only are youuncomfortable, but you're
thinking about your parents andwhether or not it's making them
uncomfortable.
Is that fair to say?
Beth (07:31):
Yeah, I wouldn't say that I'm uncomfortable.
I'm uncomfortable if I thinkthey're uncomfortable.
Yeah.
I'm used to your El McCordo forthe most part.
I mean, definitely.
Sometimes he goes way off, youknow, line way
Jeff (07:45):
off line, but
Beth (07:47):
for the most part, I think it's fun, but yeah, if it's like
inappropriate or like, you know,way past their generational
understanding, you know, it'slike, Oh man, I've, I'm just
thinking of all the ways I, Ineed to help everyone have a
good time or not feel awkward orweird or.
Outside, you know, they don'tunderstand what's going on.
(08:09):
So I'm just,
Jeff (08:10):
and then even applies to the kids.
Like you're managing the kids tonot, this was earlier on, not
now.
We're not walking in with ouryoung 20 somethings.
Like, here's what's going to beappropriate when you go to gimme
and pop
Beth (08:21):
right, right.
Or like we would all be in thevan and they're in the back,
like laughing, teasing, gettingupset or whatever.
And I'm like, guys, you're neverlike this, except for when my
parents are in the car.
Can you please stop, you know?
And so, yeah, I'm.
I, as a nine, um, and I thinkeveryone's this way, but as a
nine, I'm hyper aware of all thedynamics, very aware.
(08:44):
And it's exhausting.
Now, of course, over the years,I've had to learn what does it
look like to continue to beaware?
Because I think as a nine,that's just a superpower I have
that can go awry, but how can Iuse that superpower and not
overtake me?
Um, and I'll be honest, it'sstill a challenge.
It's still a challenge.
You know, we're coming up here,uh, for Christmas and my parents
(09:07):
will be here.
And I'm really excited because,you know, I don't get to see
them that much.
They live in Kansas city.
We're in Nashville and becauseof COVID, we just haven't seen
them as much as we would have.
So, I mean, I'm looking forwardto it, but you know, there's,
we're two totally differentfamilies actually now.
We have three or four differentfamilies.
Our kids are living their ownlives.
We have our life, and then myparents, you know, they live
(09:28):
their own type of life.
And so how to navigate that in ahealthy way so that I don't
succumb to everybody's wishesand whims and feel the
responsibility in caretaking,um, I have, I'm proud of.
Um, and so I think it's reallyimportant that we all have a
great time and we don't fallinto some of those old habitual
(09:49):
patterns.
Jeff (09:50):
That's right.
Well, we've talked a little bitabout family of origin stuff,
uh, throughout the urinogramcoach platform.
But, you know, here's thereality is that, you know, our,
our type, plays a role in ourfamily of origins.
I mean, my sixness, yournineness, uh, there's a way in
which the family related to thatand there were ways that it
(10:13):
manifests itself in our familyof origin that maybe have
changed since adulthood.
And what's interesting nowhaving older kids, uh, one of
the things, um, even ourdaughter, when we, uh, were
telling her that Gammy and Papawere coming in town, she, uh,
said to Beth, like, Oh, I wasreally hoping that we'd be able
to spend some time together.
And plus, I know that you neededsome rest.
(10:33):
Well, she's commenting on Youand who you become when you're
around your parents, even yourkids will start to pick up on
some of these changes.
Well, inevitably that will leadto conflict between us about
your family.
Uh, now it could potentiallylead to conflict with it.
Not that we're going to haveconflict with our kids, but it
could have or may have in thepast.
Beth (10:54):
Especially if we're unaware of what's going on and
we don't name it and talk itthrough for sure.
Yeah, it can become, cause weall think that we're doing our
family, me.
Justice, you know, like we'reseeing it through the lens of
how we grew up and most of thetime when you go home, you
revert back to a lot of oldpatterns, or at least the family
wants you to, you know, they'reused to you being a certain way.
And if you've grown, they reallydon't understand those new
(11:17):
dynamics.
And, um, so we have to be alsoready for that.
Like that, if we've grown inhealthy ways, um, Um, you know,
to recognize that there'll bethe pull and the tension to
revert back to some old, um,negative patterns or unhealthy
patterns.
Um, but also the desire to stayhealthy, but then also the
family's desire to pull you in.
(11:38):
Um, and, and to have clearcommunication of what that looks
like, whether it's to the wholefamily or even maybe it's a
spouse or a sibling thatunderstands your growth and um,
desires.
Jeff (11:50):
So here's the good news about what we're going to be
spending the rest of our timetalking about is that we're
going to get into the bedrockreally some of the main wiring
of each of our Enneagram typeshere so much of the conflict and
conversations preparing forbeing with your family is all
behavior and emotion management.
(12:11):
You're just trying to surviveand get through it, but you've
never thought about where someof these.
It's all this energy starts tohappen in your body and in your
heart that manifests itself inyour behaviors, your fears, your
emotions, all these differentthings.
And what that's called is yourinterpreted childhood message.
(12:35):
And it affects.
Everything about how we relate
Beth (12:39):
Yeah, well, and let me just.
Back up for just a secondbecause the interpretive child
message is going to pop upbecause of the foundational
understanding of your coremotivations.
Now, if you've listened to me,you've heard me talk about core
motivations all the time becauseit's essential to understand
your core motivations.
your core fear, desire,weakness, and longing.
(12:59):
And if you don't know what thoseare, please go to
urineandgrahamcoach.
com forward slash coremotivations and download a free
PDF.
One, you want to look at yourcore motivations and really
understand what is the drivingforce behind why you think,
feel, and behave in particularways.
But then it also will give youinsight into the people in your
family and why they do what theydo.
(13:20):
So the interpretive message isBasically, a part of the
Enneagram, so there's lots ofdifferent things that we could
talk about the Enneagram.
This is one part, and this is apainful message that you were
either told directly or sensedindirectly when you were growing
up.
So, please note that there's notalways a particular event or
(13:41):
something that happened thatsomeone directly said this to
you.
That may have happened, but alot of times it's you know,
You've just picked this upsomewhere, somehow an event
happened and you interpretedwhat was going on or said around
you in a very particular way.
So I'll give you an example forme as a type nine, my
(14:01):
interpreted childhood message isit's not okay to assert yourself
or make too much of yourself.
So the story that I relate tothat one, um, goes all the way
back to.
1980.
Jeff (14:15):
The drama and intrigue.
Such an introduction to a story.
Beth (14:22):
So 1980, I was five years old.
So now you guys can like do allthe math.
Um, But yeah, so as far as oldmy dad was an allergist and so
back in the the dayPharmaceutical reps would come
to his office and not just giveDrug samples, you know medicine
to give to patients but backthen they would give you
(14:43):
trinkets and toys and pens Sothis one
Jeff (14:50):
I do remember going to your home and getting Zyrtec
pens because they were likereally cool looking pens and I
would use them in college.
Yeah,
Beth (14:58):
that's true.
And they worked good And theywere free.
They were free and we were poorBut yeah, so my dad from the
pharmaceutical, you know companygave him these little address
books They were blue and I mean,I was actually searching on
Google the other day to see if Icouldn't find them Oh sure, and
I couldn't but anyway, they wereblue and they fit in your shirt
(15:20):
pocket.
So they were pretty small Yeah,real thin and
Jeff (15:23):
the original iPhone.
Beth (15:25):
Yeah, exactly My dad still uses that but um On the side, I
think it said like 1980 and likethis real 80s font.
And then I think somewhere ithad like the the drug's name.
But anyway, so real small, realthin, just paper.
No one really wants this, let'sjust be honest.
But I was five years old and Ithought, okay.
(15:46):
I have 12 of these.
What am I going to do with them?
And then I had this brilliantidea that I was going to go from
house to house in theneighborhood and sell them for 5
cents.
Because, of course, who doesn'twant an address book, right?
Especially this fancy one.
For five cents as I have thisbrilliant idea, so I go to my
(16:06):
neighbors across the street andI'm sure they, they gave me five
cents and they kind of giggledand you know, I went to the next
house and I'm thinking, and Idid this like three times and
I'm thinking, I am killing it.
Like look at me.
Jeff (16:18):
I mean, I, I can't, if Nate or Libby were to walk
around selling something door todoor at five years old, like
that, even just that in itselfis kind of crazy.
But the fact that you're thisentrepreneurial heart that would
take decades before it reallyshown here you are living your
best life selling these, can youimagine the, how many pieces of
(16:41):
gum you could get,
Beth (16:43):
especially back then.
So I did that like three times.
And then my mom.
Open the door and she saw me andI think she could kind of tell
what I was doing.
And she called me home and Icame home and, you know, of
course I'm thinking, yeah, I'mkilling it.
Jeff (16:57):
You know, I'm going to show her how awesome I've been.
Beth (17:00):
And.
My mom was very kind, but shejust said in her very six
responsible appropriateViewpoint of life is Beth.
We do not do that.
That is inappropriate.
You need to go back and Give themoney back to our neighbors.
We don't sell things like thatto our neighbors
Jeff (17:18):
See as a counterphobic six, I would have affirmed it
like that is amazing Like youjust you overcome so much fear
and just went out there and didit Well,
Beth (17:25):
that's why I said like my mom my phobic mom's Heart at the
time, you know is probablymoving into that three space
where she's thinking what arethe neighbors gonna think?
You know this girl going aroundselling really cheap address
books that nobody wants Well,
Jeff (17:42):
the calendars are address books.
No, they're address booksaddress.
Okay,
Beth (17:46):
and You know, and so I'm sure she felt a little bit of
embarrassment.
Plus, you know, you don't reallygo around selling stuff in the
neighborhood, unless it's likefor fundraisers.
I mean, this is
Jeff (17:57):
really good, because what emotions were, do you think you
were feeling at the time?
Maybe you remember, maybe youdon't.
Beth (18:03):
When she said that?
Oh, total shame.
Jeff (18:05):
Total shame.
Beth (18:06):
Like I just thought, how did I put myself out there and
do something that broughtpossible shame or upset my mom
or upset my family or didsomething wrong?
Like,
Jeff (18:22):
I mean, even at five years old, like you have a sense that
the family has an image that youare partly responsible for
maintaining.
Beth (18:30):
Yeah.
And like I said, my mom, Isn't aperson who heaps on shame or
gets really upset like she wasjust telling me Her viewpoint
coaching
Jeff (18:41):
you as a sixth parent on how to be a six.
Beth (18:43):
Yeah, this is inappropriate you know, this is
not what we do and So, you know,from the interpretive childhood
message, the nine is it's notokay to assert yourself or think
much of yourself it.
That's all I heard, even thoughshe didn't say it, she probably
never meant it to land on myheart that way.
(19:04):
That is how, that is the recordplayer that plays in the type
nines mind.
So that is how I perceived itand that's how I took it into
myself.
And then I lived that out.
So I really from that moment onwas like, I can't assert myself.
Unless I get the okay frompeople.
I want to make sure everyone'sokay.
No one's upset.
I'm not going to create any kindof conflict or any waves and
(19:25):
definitely don't make much ofmyself.
Um, but again, it saddens me forlots of different reasons.
But one thing that saddens meis.
Like, that's not what my mom wastrying to instill in me.
Like, that's not what the wholemessage was, but that's how I
interpret it.
And that's why it's important,the word interpreted childhood
message.
Other people will hear in otherbooks, wounded childhood
(19:45):
message, but that comes acrossas if someone purposely wounded
you.
Now, sometimes it is, sometimesthese messages are directly told
to people and that is wounding.
But like in my instance.
It wasn't intended to wound, itwas intended to teach, intended
to help, um, but I hurt it, andit hurt me, and it, and it
(20:06):
changed the trajectory of how Isaw life.
So I think that's, that's why Ilike to say, tell people my
stories, because it's not alwaysa very specific, direct point.
So let me, um, jump into allnine types so people can hear
theirs and really kind of justthink through, like, was there a
specific event that happened?
Did someone directly say this tome in one form or another?
Jeff (20:28):
And, and one way to get to get to this place is one.
Think of when you've experiencedit recently.
And then to start thinking aboutthe emotions or the
circumstances and see if thatleads you to earlier and earlier
memories to where, you know,maybe over time, weeks, months,
it may take you a year or so, sodon't think that this is an
immediate thing, but to findsort of its origin story because
(20:51):
even the same story at fiveyears old, I, I have stories as
well of when, uh, as a type six,I felt like I, I've gotten
myself in a situation and.
When the reality is, is that Iwas a little kid and I had no
choice but to be in thatsituation.
But I developed a way ofinterpreting life that I can't
trust myself.
So just, it takes time, butuncover that origin because then
(21:15):
you start to realize as anadult, like, wait a minute, why
did I bring that thought to thesituation?
Well,
Beth (21:20):
and we're still living it out today.
Jeff (21:22):
That's right.
We are.
Beth (21:23):
So like for me, you know, even though I started your
Enneagram coach, it took medecades to get there, to get
over this message.
And it's still a message I haveto wrestle with every day
showing up, you know, making,you know, my viewpoints, my
presence heard, um, knowing thatGod has given me a message to,
(21:45):
To deliver to people to helpthem.
It's a daily battle to go, no, Ican't assert myself.
And yeah, I don't want to makemuch of myself.
But I do want to make much ofwhat God has done in and through
me.
For His glory.
So it is a daily wrestling.
This isn't like a one and donething.
So it is good to observe, likeyou said.
How is it affecting you today?
But then also look back and whenwere those moments that you saw
(22:07):
it popping up when you're achild?
Jeff (22:09):
So as Beth is going through some of these, remember,
this is really the, at the coreof all of the relational and
emotional energy that comes, uh,when you, when you're about to
go be with family again, orperhaps even in your existing
family, where it remind you ofFeeling a body sensation, a
(22:29):
conversation reminds you ofsomething from the past.
It's this message that's comingonline and that creates all the
core motivations to startgetting activated and all the
behaviors that come with it.
So Bethany, why don't you gothrough all nine.
Beth (22:42):
Okay.
Type ones, you either directlyheard or thought you heard that
is not okay to be wrong or tomake mistakes.
Type twos, you either heard orthought you heard that it is not
okay to have your own needs.
own needs.
Type threes, you either heard orthought you heard that it is not
okay to have your own feelingsand identity.
Type fours, you heard or thoughtyou heard that it is not okay to
(23:05):
be too much and not enough.
Type fives, you heard or thoughtyou heard that it is not okay to
be too comfortable in the world.
Type sixes, you heard or thoughtyou heard that it is not okay to
trust or depend on yourself.
Type sevens, you heard orthought you heard that it is not
okay to depend on others foranything.
(23:28):
Type eights, you either heard orthought you heard that it is not
okay to trust or to bevulnerable with anyone.
And type nines, you either heardor thought you heard that it is
not okay to assert yourself orthink too much of yourself.
Jeff (23:45):
Man, so these are really profound things.
Insights into each of the ninetypes and so realize that, um,
it takes time to come to restand to recognize, um, that this
is a way a principle that we'veSeeing the world through for our
entire lives.
And so whenever you are having aconversation with your spouse be
(24:08):
sure to Adopt a posture ofcuriosity.
You can't fix this And if youjust storm through the front
door and start trying to talkabout it There's gonna be
resistance because this is avery very tender part of our
lives.
Why because we have It isalmost, it is like a lens that
(24:30):
we have viewed life through ourentire lives.
And it's a lens that haslimitations.
Um, there's, there's no way thatthis principle is not true.
Um, we have lived this out.
It's shaped decisions that we'vemade all throughout our lives.
And so to untangle from that isgoing to take time and a lot of
(24:52):
patience.
But to be able to know and beginto have conversation that it's
really not about this Christmas,but it's about a message that's
in your spouses or your friendsor your heart that is leading
you to these kinds of, this kindof frenetic energy as it relates
to going home again.
Beth (25:12):
Yeah, and I think also we, we want to recognize that this
message is going to pop up fromtime to time and definitely when
you're not expecting it.
And when it happens, the firstthing I think a lot of the times
our human flesh wants to do isto shame ourselves or condemn
ourselves like, Oh, why can't Iget rid of this?
Or why is it here again?
Or haven't I gotten better atthis?
(25:33):
That is not going to help.
Jeff (25:35):
It's, it's really not going to help.
I mean, that was one of thephrases I walked away from my
time with Dan Allender.
Uh, was, you know, the way outof it is through it.
Um, you know, the old, uh, goingon a bear hunt book.
You can't go under it.
You can't go around it.
Oh no, we got to go through it.
And that's the reality of whatit means to address this
(25:56):
message.
And so it may be worth your timeto begin considering how are all
of the thoughts that you have,the expectations that you have,
the dynamics of what's happeningin your emotional life.
Why are those coming up relatedto this message?
And to
Beth (26:11):
be gentle with yourself, you know.
To recognize that this is athought pattern that's been
there for a very long time andto be gentle, be curious, um,
and to bring the scripture, tobring the gospel to bear, to our
heart.
Um, you know, Jesus comes to uswith love and care and
tenderness.
And so we can, Um, be in themidst of these, um, hard
(26:35):
memories and it not overtake us.
Jeff (26:38):
I mean that man, you just saying that it brings to mind
all of those scenes where Jesusis moving towards hurting women,
right?
And he doesn't do so harshly,but he gets to.
These core beliefs aboutsomething that they believe
about themselves or about God.
And this is a very specialmoment that you can have to
(26:59):
spend some time reflectingbecause Jesus has already
answered what your heart islonging to hear.
Well, another important aspectto be aware of when it comes to
being around your familymembers, uh, is your type's
(27:21):
blind spot path.
Now, Beth's going to talk aboutthis a little bit more and
define it, but I found this,this is one of those things that
as you, as I've seen you teachother people about, like it's a
big aha moment for a lot ofpeople.
Very big.
Cause it, and this is one ofthose weird aspects of the
(27:42):
Enneagram that it feels likepeople have been recording you
and like, how did you know that?
Because that's, that's verysecret, but what do you think it
is that people are so surprisedWell, I mean, it's a blind spot,
Beth (27:55):
so they, they don't really realize how much it's a part of
their story and how much itaffects their, their life.
Um, yeah.
So yeah, it,
Jeff (28:05):
so I understand this particularly as it relates to
whether you're talking with aspouse or you're talking with a
friend, it is a blind spot.
Beth (28:14):
It is a blind spot.
And
Jeff (28:15):
so they, they don't see it.
Like there, there is a way inwhich we, uh, I don't know if
it's, it's Uh, that we're notcognitive of it, but we enter
into a way of being and we don'teven see that it's happening,
right?
But until someone else, like ifyou bring your boyfriend or
girlfriend home or maybe youbring a friend over and they're
(28:37):
like, what, who did, who wereyou whenever we walked into the
room?
Well, the blind spot pathactually speaks to it.
So Beth, once you give us thedefinition of what is the blind
spot path.
Beth (28:48):
Yeah, so, um, I took a course, uh, with Russ Hudson
from the Enneagram Institute,um, on the lines and arrows, and
he actually called this thesecurity point, but, um, for me,
it got really confusing when Iwas training people because
security point for some otherteachers is the path of growth
(29:12):
and because you're secure.
That's not what this meant.
So.
We change the terminology whenyou look at the lines and
arrows, we talk about stresspath.
So usually people are veryfamiliar with the stress path,
you know, like for a nine, whenyou're under stress, you can
take on some of the average, theunhealthy aspects of type six
and when you're growing.
So the growth path is when youtake on the healthy attributes
(29:33):
of the type three.
Most people that have lookedinto the Enneagram are very
familiar with your stress pathand your growth path.
Well, there's two more paths.
There's still the same lines,but there's two more paths.
So with the path that younormally go in growth, you can
actually go down that path, takeon the characteristics of the
(29:56):
type that you're connected to inless healthy ways around your
family.
Jeff (30:02):
So for type 9, that means that you can become more like a
type 3?
Beth (30:08):
Yes, in the average to unhealthy ways around the home.
And And again, this is a blindspot path because you don't even
realize that you're accessingthis.
And for the most part, it's likeyou don't even like, I would
never do the less healthy typethree things in normal public,
(30:28):
like just around everyday peopleor even like coworkers because
Jeff (30:32):
I mean, even the way that you, um, show likenesses to
three, it's, it's very private.
Like you don't, you're not avery boastful person, but.
Like there, there's, there'ssome very kind of, I'm proud of
myself comments that she'll makewith the family, with the
family.
Yes, yes,
Beth (30:50):
exactly.
And so, um, and one thing I wantto say is that this isn't so
much that your blind spot pathmeans you're bad.
You're doing something wrong.
Really, actually it's a, we needto go in the growth path, which
is the healthy side of the sametype, but that feels
uncomfortable or weirdsometimes.
(31:11):
And this is kind of like, it'skind of coming out sideways.
Um, and so we're trying to getour needs met, but in a way
that's less healthy.
And so we want to recognizethat, because it can alert us
and wake us up to, well, what isit that I'm needing?
And why am I trying to get it?
accomplished in this lesshealthy way?
How can I change the trajectoryin the path and do it from a
(31:35):
more healthy perspective?
So, because it's the same type.
So type three, I go towards typethree when I'm actually, um,
growing, you know, just ineveryday circumstances.
Okay.
So that's great.
But at the family level, I needto also bring that, that level
of health to the family.
Into the family life, butsometimes I don't because it
feels so hard.
(31:55):
So
Jeff (31:56):
keep this in mind, too So I just as we went through the
interpreted childhood messageRealize that once that message
has been activated then thatgets all the other core
motivations going And this is away of addressing the anxiety of
having those motivations in thatmessage activated and so again
We have to treat this withkindness.
(32:17):
This isn't, Oh, you're doingthat again.
That's your blind spot path.
That's using the Enneagram as asword and, and nor do we want to
use it, uh, to defend ourselvesin our behavior, uh, our
unhealthy behaviors.
And so just remember to treatthis with kindness, but Beth,
and to illustrate this, whydon't you tell us another story
about how your blind spot pathshows up.
Beth (32:38):
Oh, sure.
Focus on me, huh?
No.
Okay.
So, as a type 9, like I said, myblind spot path is moving to
type 3, the admirable achiever.
So, again, normally, um, I, likewhen I'm doing well and I'm
healthy, I'm moving towards thathigh part of 3.
But As a 9, I normally aroundthe everyday person would never
(32:59):
want to promote myself, standout, maybe look arrogant, show
off, and I'm going to evenstruggle to know that my
presence matters, okay?
So it's going to be hard for meto do this kind of self
promotion, hey everyone lookwhat I've done, all that kind of
stuff.
But deep down, I do desire tohear that I have worth and
value, and that, and that's agood longing, right?
(33:21):
That's a good desire in a senseto know that we have worth and
value.
But instead of asking for whatis needed, the affirmation and
encouragement that I'm longingfor, and asking it directly and
assertively, I willinadvertently tell my family
what I did well or what I'veaccomplished that day.
So it might come out kind ofbragging or boastful, like Jeff
(33:43):
said, But I desire to reallyhear them acknowledge what I've
done and for them to affirm me.
I unknowingly believe that thiswill help me to feel that I have
worth.
Since really deep down, I reallyaffirm myself.
And if I don't get theaffirmation or the encouragement
that I'm looking for in thisinadvertent way, I will feel
(34:05):
deflated and worthless.
And when I'm on this blind spotpath, moving to the less healthy
attributes of three around myfamily, I cared greatly and
deeply about what others arethinking, especially in my
family life.
I want to impress them and Iwant to make them happy, but I
want you guys to realize that Iwill almost never do these
(34:28):
characteristics in front ofpeople outside the family.
In fact, I really dislike itwhen I see others showing off,
bragging about what they'vedone, um, looking for attention.
Those attributes are actuallysomething that I really don't
like to see.
And so you can see why thisattribute in myself is a blind
(34:51):
spot for me because it'ssomething I actually feel, um,
adverse to, and yet I actuallydo at home.
Jeff (34:59):
So not only is our interpreted childhood message
impacting us when we're aroundfamily members, but We also can
keep in mind that we have ablind spot path that's also
coming out to bat.
No wonder why we struggle somuch whenever we're going to be
around family for the holidays.
So Beth, why don't you take usthrough each of the blind spots
(35:20):
for each of the Enneagram types.
Beth (35:22):
All right, you guys buckled in ready for this?
All right, so when you're aroundyour family, maybe a best
friend, maybe, but when you'rearound your family and you're,
these are the people you letyour hair down, you kind of act,
you know, in ways that younormally don't, this is what's
sometimes going to happen.
So type ones, your blind spotpath takes you to type seven and
(35:43):
causes you to demand that othersmeet your needs.
criticisms and desires.
You avoid difficult emotions andwill reframe negative situations
to sound more positive.
And you'll look for escapehatches or unhealthy indulgences
to distract yourself from thepressures you face.
Now remember, the blind spotpath is the same direction you
(36:05):
go in your growth path.
And remember, you're doing thesethings because there's actually
a healthier way of actuallyaccomplishing what you, what you
need, but this is coming outsideways.
So you just, instead of shamingyourself and looking at yourself
or what's happening, askyourself curious questions of
what is it that you really needand how can you obtain that in a
healthier way?
(36:26):
Type twos, your blind spot pathtakes you to type four and it
causes you to feel rejectedbecause others are not listening
or accepted, accepting yourhelp.
You feel that others do notunderstand how difficult it is
to be constantly others focusedand you may daydream about
becoming free of always needingto be helpful so that you can
(36:50):
actually focus on your own selfcare.
Type 3.
Your blind spot path takes youto type 6 and causes you to
express your frustration anddread when anxiety arises.
You struggle with more selfdoubt and when blamed or accused
of something you can reactstrongly.
You are more suspicious ofothers and might test loyalties.
(37:13):
Type 4.
Your blind spot path takes youto type 1 and causes you to
focus on flaws and become morejudgmental toward yourself,
others, and even the world.
We're not being perfect or theideal way that you see it.
You may voice your frustrationsand visibly display your
disappointment in your bodylanguage.
You may be impatient andcontrolling when others are
(37:35):
incorrect and not being theirauthentic selves.
And type fives.
For you, your blind spot pathtakes you to type eight and
causes you to assert yourboundaries forcefully and
confront anyone who displeasesyou.
You may interrupt conversationsand question others competence
while asserting your knowledgewith intellectual arrogance.
(37:57):
You can become more secretive,fearing that others will betray
you.
Now, Jeff, here's yours, andwe'll talk about yours here in a
second.
Type sixes.
Your blind spot path takes youto type nine and causes you to
deal with stress by shuttingdown.
You can forget who you arebecause you've chosen peaceful
loyalty over your own passionsand desire.
(38:19):
When you are overwhelmed, youmay stubbornly resist your
demands and express irritationwhen others interrupt or disturb
your comfortable routines.
How does that land on you?
Jeff (38:33):
You mean what I thought was healthiness as I related to
your family?
You're saying is my blind spot.
Beth (38:38):
Yeah, I definitely am.
Jeff (38:40):
Well, I intentionally go to my blind spot.
So it's it's actually a clearspot.
Beth (38:44):
It's a clear spot.
I know I'm doing it now.
I
Jeff (38:47):
mean, I, I really, uh, and you know, And that's why I call
this part of my heart, Phil,because he kind of fills up the
longing because I, I want to beavailable and you know, it's not
like I'm an, I'm an absentfather in the situation.
I'll help to take care of thekids or, or go wherever.
I just don't know where myvoice.
is permitted in the midst of allthe other voices in the
(39:12):
situation.
And I don't want to get introuble with you or do something
that's going to frustrate yourparents.
And so, you know, I just kind ofcalmly, quietly, just.
Kind of go inward, shuteverything down, uh, which is
interesting because I, I thinkthat's the part of my heart that
I would use as a place kickerwhenever I'd go out onto the
(39:33):
field, um, and kick in thosekind of intense moments and so
it, it's actually been a part ofwho I am and it shows up in all
kinds of various ways.
Beth (39:42):
Okay, let's, let's just take this as an example.
So moving to your growth path.
That is for a type six to bemore at rest, to, to not have
your mind so frenetic andthinking, you know, in multiple
directions to actually be calm,to be still, to be present.
Jeff (40:02):
And, and it's so interesting you say it that way
because there is a significantdifference.
When it's growth versus thisblind spot path, right?
Because there have been timesthat i've said to beth like i'm
I am no longer a six.
I am now a nine
Beth (40:17):
When you're in which category when i'm in melancholy?
Yeah, exactly And i'm like youare not a nine.
You're not a nine.
Trust me.
It's still
Jeff (40:26):
in there
Beth (40:27):
But yeah, you've had seasons like when covet hit.
Um, there was a season where um,you couldn't find work Uh during
those seasons when you were athome a lot there wasn't much to
do You You really kind of sunkinto that type nine space and
you really felt like you were atype nine.
Jeff (40:43):
This, when you see me in that space.
How do you feel?
Beth (40:50):
Well, there's part of me that's like, oh awesome.
Let's chill.
This is great And then there'sanother part of me that wants to
shake you and wake you up
Jeff (41:01):
yes, so it's
Beth (41:02):
both right like there's I'm partly getting what Um, and
then the other part of me islike, but no, no, no, no, I want
Jeff, like I married Jeff, like,you know, so it's a both, and
Jeff (41:17):
yeah, there's a lot of ambivalence, um, with, with me.
Beth (41:21):
Yes.
I think this is helpful forpeople to realize that.
We do want you to move towardsthat nine healthy space.
We definitely want you to bringless frenetic energy.
We want you to be more calm andconfident and assured and to go
against the interpretedchildhood message, which says,
don't trust yourself.
We want you to trust yourselfand we want you to move forward
(41:43):
in that with confidence and easeand, and.
If, if that happens around thefamily, then actually a lot of
things happen, like you usuallycome up with like great ideas
and a go to attitude, um, so wedon't just all sit around.
Um, and so we want you to movetowards that nine space, but in
a healthy way.
And I think that's what youultimately want.
(42:05):
It's just at times with ourfamily, we don't know how to
accomplish that.
So we do these less healthyways.
All right, let's move on to typeseven.
Type seven.
Your blind spot path takes youto type eight.
Five, and causes you to befiercely independent, building
up boundaries to protectyourself from others, limiting
your life.
You may need to sort out yourfeelings by being alone and
(42:27):
using your intellect.
And you may grow tired ofconstantly feeling that you need
to be the positive and fun one,that you just need some space to
yourself.
Type 8s, your blind spot pathwill take you to type 2 and
causes you to assume that allyour motives are pure with no
hidden agendas.
You may believe you have to earnlove and affirmation from others
(42:50):
by helping them and that yourneeds and emotions will threaten
your relationships.
Or, you may take offense whenothers don't help and care for
you in the same way that youlove and support them.
Oh, I
Jeff (43:04):
am really excited about this one.
I
Beth (43:05):
know.
When I was writing it, I waslike Oh man, this is terrible.
Okay.
So type nines, your blind spotpath takes you to type three and
notice
Jeff (43:18):
it's your blind.
It's not my blind spot path.
Beth (43:23):
Your blind spot takes you to type three and causes you to
suppress your emotions andidentity so that you can focus
on achieving when someoneexposes your weakness and
failures.
You may feel shame and believeyou are worthless.
Jeff (43:37):
That never.
happens ever.
Beth (43:40):
You can people please and use flattery.
That's
Jeff (43:44):
crazy.
Beth (43:46):
Can I read it?
I can't even read it.
He's chiming in.
Jeff (43:49):
I'm activated Beth.
Beth (43:52):
Okay.
You can people please and useflattery and charm to maintain
harmony and draw attention toyour kindness and generosity.
Oh no.
Jeff (44:05):
I, you know what, Bethany, you are so enlightened that
there's no blindness with you.
Oh my gosh.
When I was,
Beth (44:13):
when I was putting this together and reading it, I'm
like, oh no, guys, it's just sotrue.
Like, I mean, like right nowwe're putting together a
presentation, um, Um, for aretreat that we're doing and
it's a lot of brand new materialand I definitely get really
(44:34):
frustrated.
Like I want to suppress myemotions.
I want to like push everythingto a side and just stay dialed
in and focused on gettingcontent done.
But then when I like show you,particularly you.
Um, what I'm working on, if Idon't get the affirmation I
need, or if you have a negativecomment or like, Hey, we need to
do this instead.
I will feel shame and believethat I'm like worthless to some
(44:57):
degree, not like maybecompletely, but like it really
hits me hard.
And this is so true.
Like I, like I, I go to thistype 3 space with you a lot.
Well, what I'm hoping for all ofyou that are listening is that
you will start to recognize thatyou have a blind spot path.
And for everyone who's like,where can I read this material?
(45:20):
Where is this stuff?
Well, a lot of teachers don'ttalk about it because it's kind
of Enneagram 2.
0.
And so a lot of times we justtalk about the stress path or
the growth path because it's alittle easier just to kind of go
in those two directions than todive deeper.
So in our Enneagram collection,which is our nine Enneagram gift
book journals fromHarperCollins, um, in each of
(45:43):
those, We talk about the blindspot path.
Actually, we talk about all fourpaths.
So there's one for eachEnneagram type, and what's so
cool about them is they're 21day gift book journals.
And every day is a topic, andthey're the same topic for every
type.
So there's general content foreach of the types, and then
there's type specific.
So Jeff and I, if we were to gothrough our journal together, We
(46:07):
would read about let's say theblind spot path and it would
talk about general stuff that'sthe same, but then it would get
type specific and then we couldshare our aha moments like, Oh
my gosh, this is so true.
Kind of like we're doing here.
Jeff (46:19):
Just think about that as you think about driving or
whether or not your family'scoming to your house or you're
going to be traveling over theholidays.
Go grab the journals off ofAmazon, get them shipped as
quick as possible so that youcan actually have a redemptive,
uh, renewing conversation withyour spouse, with your sibling,
with your friends, as you go toexperience family again.
(46:42):
These are actually opportunitiesthat we all have to connect with
one another.
They don't have to be momentswhere we get into an argument
about the Family dynamics when,you know, when it, the
conflict's not even between us,it's about something that's
happening between ourrelationship with our family.
Beth (46:59):
Yeah.
And these books just bring somuch clarity and the 21, I mean,
you could do it in 21 days.
You can do it.
And you know, 21 just readings,they're really, really short on
each topic.
And so, You can do it faster.
You could do it slower.
Um, but it's so powerful to doit with someone else.
And it doesn't have to besomeone of the same type, but
(47:19):
use this to bring clarity andunderstanding.
And it's from a gospel centerperspective.
So the whole point is to helpyou to see how God has created
you to reflect him.
And then how we understand.
Stand when we get off course,how we get misaligned, but how
to get back into alignment.
So the Enneagram collection atAmazon, uh, books, a million,
(47:39):
you name it, Barnes and Noble,uh, get yours.
They're great stocking stufferstoo.
Jeff (47:45):
Well, we hope this episode's helped you to
understand yourself as well asyour role and the dynamics
around your family We hope thatit's going to help you and the
relationships that you have toextend more compassion Empathy
and love for one another
Beth (47:57):
But as always, remember that the Enneagram reveals your
need for Jesus, not your need towork harder.
It's the gospel that transformsus.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.