December 30, 2024 • 54 mins
Today we are releasing our last episode of 2021, and wrapping up our home for the holidays series. Many of you spent some time with family and you might be feeling a little activated or even wounded, and we hope to give you some tools today to take care of yourself and pay attention to what your soul needs. Our Director of Coaches, Adam Breckenridge and Jeff McCord walk us through helpful thoughts as we consider self-care.
Thank you to our guest:
Adam Breckenridge - https://myenneagramcoach.com/coach/adam-breckenridge/
We have many more amazing Enneagram for Moms resources at www.enneagramformoms.com.
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Mentioned:
Monica McGoldrick
#Enneagram #PersonalityTypes #EnneagramCoach
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jeff (00:00):
Well, welcome to your Enneagram coach the podcast.
(00:02):
I am Jeff McCord Co founder andCEO and here I'm with Adam
Breckinridge the director ofcoaching We're wrapping up our
home for the holiday series.
Many of you have spent time, uh,with your family and you might
be feeling a little activated.
Um, all kinds of dynamics, uh,both the past.
There's this great quote that,uh, many pass around when
(00:23):
talking about our families, thatthe past isn't the past, it's
not even past.
Um, And so, uh, maybe you evenfeel a little wounded, um,
whether things said or unsaid,but just realizing that there's
unresolved pain that's still,uh, creeping up on you.
We're going to talk a little bitabout that, but our hope is to
be able to give you some toolstoday so that you can take care
(00:46):
of yourself to pay attention towhat your soul needs.
Uh, today, Beth is taking abreak.
Christmas is here for Beth.
And so.
It's Adam, our Breckenridge, ourdirector of coaching and myself.
Uh, today, uh, I do remember thelast time we, uh, I did this
with a friend.
Uh, his name is Travis Stewart.
(01:07):
We were talking about on anInstagram live feed on, um,
eating disorders and Enneagramtypes, and, um, Travis and I
were talking about it being allprofound and helpful and
bringing hope to people, andthen people started Who are
these guys?
Like, why?
(01:29):
Where's Ben?
So, my new nickname that my kidshave given to me is Jeff
Wachowski.
Because, uh, I feel like my faceis always blocked whenever I'm
on TV.
(01:49):
Well, Adam, hey, welcome to theshow.
Glad you're here with me tofinish out this year and give
some help to some people.
Adam (01:56):
Thanks for having me, man.
I'm always so glad to hang outwith you.
Um, and I'm, I'm really gladthat we're giving Beth a break
for Christmas.
Merry Christmas, Beth.
Merry Christmas to all ourlisteners.
Um, uh, so our last episode forthe season.
So, um, yeah, we're hoping to goout in a way that.
We equip you like Jeff, like yousaid, give you guys some tools
(02:17):
to help you heal and recover.
I'm really glad that we'retalking about this.
I think self care is, is one ofthe most, we'll get into this a
little more, uh, in thisepisode, but I think it's one of
the most essential disciplinesthat we need as human beings and
Yet at the same time, it's atleast for me, it's one of those
things that we neglect andstruggle with the most.
(02:38):
And I know that from personalexperience.
So yeah, I'm super thrilled tobe here and I'm eager to dive
into this with you today.
Jeff (02:45):
You know, just hearing you share there, a couple of things
came to mind for me.
Number one, I remember duringcampus ministry days, um, when,
We would meet these students.
We would work with them for thatfirst semester.
And then the last large groupmessage that we always gave was,
what does it look like to walkwith God when you go home?
(03:05):
Why?
Because we, it's almost like webecome different people.
Uh, we've had to talk to ourson, Nate, when he comes home
because, uh, he, he's veryactive, very extroverted, but
sometimes when he comes home, hegets very introverted, he, you
know.
Uh, kind of secludes and getssuper quiet.
It happens.
It's just, it's just kind offamily.
The other thing that really cameto mind that here's the reality
(03:28):
for all of us.
We are actively caring forourselves at all times.
Whether or not we are doing agood job of it or a harmful job
of it, we are always caring forourselves.
And when we, after spending timewith.
our families, um, there's goingto be, uh, whether you're aware
(03:51):
of it or not, a naturalinclination to go and try to
heal some of that pain.
And we, we want to give you somehelpful strategies, some maybe
some insightful ones that wouldbe applicable to your
experience, but we want to tryto reuse much of a help as we
possibly can.
And we are in this with you.
(04:12):
I mean, it, we don't, We're notjust talking heads here and, uh,
spouting off information.
Uh, we have our own, uh,experiences for this year.
I know that, uh, Adam and hisfamily, there's, it's been a
significant year of loss forboth he and his wife.
Uh, and then that's impacted.
Also just COVID has impacted ourfamily and decisions about
(04:34):
travel and how much we're witheach other and, uh, parents
getting older and what that'sgoing to mean.
So it's all around us.
And these are some things thathave been helpful for us that
we've learned over the years.
And we hope that it's going tobe a help for you.
Well, before we jump in, Iwanted to share some things as
we were preparing for dealingwith our family of origin.
I typical, I call this type fivewing that I have.
(04:58):
I call him Bob and Bob goes intoresearch mode whenever he has
any questions.
Some angst about a topic that,uh, we're going to be talking
about, but I came across somegreat stuff and it was a book
that I had in seminary called,you can go home again by Monica
McGoldrick.
And she has this quote that Ithought was fascinating.
(05:20):
And this is more, So, uh, thereason why I want to share this
is just to bring to life whatmay be coming up for you from
family so that you can kind ofat least come out of denial for
a little bit.
And she says this, your ghostcan haunt you.
Voices in your head, soundingout with disapproval, threats of
(05:41):
further abandonment.
And loss of yourself.
These ghosts can stand betweenyou and all that you cherish in
life, or they can taint anotherwise productive and
satisfying life with sadness.
Man, I, I, whenever I see that Iisn't that part of the sorrow,
(06:04):
Adam, is I recognize that in myrelationship, let's say with
Beth, that some of the wounds ofmy family get in the way of
Yeah.
The kind of relationship that Iwant with Beth.
Yeah, as you were talking
Adam (06:18):
earlier, Jeff, you were talking about how, um, the past
is, is never passed, uh, youknow, in, in, in coaching and
pastoral care, sometimes you getresistance from others, and I
get it, cause, I do this too,but sometimes you get resistance
of, I don't want to go back tothe past.
(06:38):
I don't want to live in thepast.
I don't want to, and I want toaffirm that, yeah, nobody wants
to just go live in the past.
But the problem is you don'thave to go back and to live in
the past because the past liveswith you in the present and it
goes everywhere with you.
So that's.
This, to frame that as thisimage of ghosts, that really
resonates deeply.
Jeff (06:59):
You know, it, it's interesting because in, uh, the
Apostle Paul, he had a phrasethat one time some, a fairly
unaware person once kind ofchallenged me with that, uh, in
regards to the pastoralcounseling that I did.
And he said, you know, Paul saysthat he forgets what's behind
and strives for what is ahead.
(07:22):
So why do we spend so much timetalking about our past and I a
little snarky a littlesarcastically I'm like, yeah,
that's where we all want to be.
But the reason why he said itit's because we're still hung up
in our past Yeah, yeah, we wantto get to that.
That's the redemptive languagethat we want to be free from
(07:42):
these previous Roles andemotions and pains, but yeah, we
can't we can't Our movingforward is held back because
we've not brought the gospel tobear upon what we've experienced
in our childhood, in our youngadult years.
Monica McGoltrick goes on alittle bit further to say that
(08:03):
these ghosts, the way that shedefines them, could be number
one, strong emotions.
And Think of strong emotions,not just as outbursts, like
overperforming or excitingemotions, but also, uh, the
desire to want to close off,isolate and disengage.
Uh, so strong emotions in bothdirections.
(08:25):
Uh, number two, physicalsymptoms.
Uh, does your lower back hurt?
Do you, like, do you findtightness in your shoulders and
neck?
Like are, are, Just even reflectupon how are you breathing is
this those can be ghosts of thepast?
Repeated relational patterns.
Are you inclined to do thingsthat you haven't done in years,
(08:45):
but for some reason?
Whenever you're around familythat all of a sudden you're
wanting to Enter back into thosebehaviors and then lastly
relational roles Um, it's fat,uh, Beth and I, we've talked a
little bit about it in some ofthese episodes, but you know,
whenever I go home, I'm a littlebit of a different Jeff because
(09:08):
there's kind of think of aneedle, uh, on the, on a record.
It's trying to find the grooveand man, when you go back home
for some reason, somehow youslip back into a group.
It's like, where did my husbandgo?
Adam, I'm curious for you, likewhat is that like for you as you
think about spending time withfamily and how that shows up for
(09:29):
you?
Adam (09:30):
Yeah, so I pretty much turned back into, um, I doubled
down on being responsible andthat was the role I had to play.
And nobody's asking me to playthat role anymore, by the way.
But no one's
Jeff (09:44):
even saying it like you're responsible for the party, for
getting everybody there on time.
Yeah.
No one said anything.
Adam (09:50):
No one said anything, but my body remembers and I, I just,
I just get, I get sent home.
I become eight or nine or 10 andthis, that, that was the role
that I played, uh, during thattime period of my life.
And so that's what I become.
I doubled down onresponsibility.
(10:11):
I become, you know, extra loyal,extra dutiful.
I work really hard.
I kind of try to manage theroom, manage other people's
emotions and expectations, and,uh, in a sense, kind of caretake
everyone and It's exhausting.
So coming, that's why thisepisode is more than I want to
(10:32):
teach.
I want to learn through thisepisode.
I need help here because comingout of the holidays, I am, I am
typically just exhausted and mywife knows she notices and she,
you know, she points this out.
She tries to, you know, you'redoing this to yourself a little
bit here.
And it's an unconscious thing.
You know, I just pick up theroll and I pick up where I left
off.
Jeff (10:53):
You know, it's interesting.
You talk about exhaustion inthat way.
You know, there as a pastor andhaving pastored in the Midwest
and now a little bit furtherdown into the Southeast, um, it
gets really dark here, uh, inNashville, particularly in the
winter time.
So, We're usually dark by 4.
30 in the afternoon.
And I remember as a pastor beinghere initially in that first and
(11:14):
second year and realizing peoplewere coming for more help
because they were, they were alittle anxious regarding their
spiritual life or theirrelational life without fully
recognizing.
Well, maybe you just need somevitamin D.
That's right.
Your relationship with Christ isperfectly fine.
(11:35):
You just need a little help fromyour body.
Well, I think the same can betrue about just the hang the
relational hangover of beingwith family.
That do you find yourselfexhausted.
And it's amazing.
I mean, there's a lot ofpassages in the scriptures
about, um, about sleep and aboutGod meeting us in sleep and
(11:57):
being at rest with sleeping.
But it is, it is a dynamic to beaware of.
Do you find yourself coming backhome and over functioning that
for some reason you have toclean the house?
Or do you find yourself notwanting to do anything whenever
you come back home and you allthe negative messages about
(12:18):
yourself when reality is, isthat this is just your body
trying to work itself out fromsome of the implications of your
past?
Yeah.
Well, what we're really wantingto invite you to, and I think
the key word here is, Honestyand to experience honesty with
yourself and maybe with thewitness of another person and,
(12:41):
and especially in yourrelationship with God regarding
your past that rather thanrunning from it or trying, you
know, the way that Dan Allendertalks about it, that we are
trying to fill numb or blindourselves to some of the things
that we've experienced early onin our stories.
Um, and so we're wanting toinvite you to honesty.
(13:03):
And you're going to see thatthrough a lot of these
suggestions about how you canbegin to heal from your
experiences of the holidays.
And that means honest about whathappened.
Not only honest about whathappened at this last dinner or
lunch experience, but what, whathappened that's led up to this,
uh, secondly, honest about theeffects of what's happened.
(13:26):
I mean, it is so comforting attimes for when Beth and I name,
What was lost because, uh,whatever providence happened in
our early childhood and tosimply grieve what was lost,
like there's a part of this sixheart of mine that confidence
(13:47):
was lost and she can ask me tobe more confident.
She can get angry with me to bemore confident.
She can overlook me not beingconfident.
But to just simply look at me inthe eyes and say, Jeff, I, I
know that there's a confidentheart in you, but at one point
that was lost.
And I think we could say thatabout all of the nine types.
(14:09):
Honest about our interpretationabout what happened.
I mean, I, one of the gifts thatI think that spouses bring to us
is that they bring a new way ofseeing.
I never saw.
How parents in my family andparents through all the
siblings, aunts, uncles, allthat stuff, how they talked
about children and children arejust a pain.
(14:33):
They are a burden to bear andthere's not a lot of love and
affection given to them andcuriosity and playfulness with
them.
It's always this kind ofshameful sarcasm and, uh,
nicknames that are just weren'thelpful.
Well, that is.
It applies to ourinterpretation.
So our family, our spouses, ourkids can bring new insight into
(14:55):
what family we experienced.
And then honest about how ourinterpretations worked for our
family.
Just like you said, Adam, Imean, being the responsible kid,
it served a function in thefamily and maybe they needed you
to serve that role.
Um, but now with your wife,Carrie and your girls, like they
may not need you to be in thatrole in the same way that you
(15:17):
were before, but it sure doesfeel familiar.
And we want to do those roles.
I remember, uh, Beth even sayingto me early on in marriage, I
don't know how to be your wife,which meant I didn't need her
the way that she thought I wouldneed her and nor was she going
to, nor did she need to be thewoman that she thought she
(15:40):
needed to be, to be a lovingwife.
And it just revealed so much ofour past and how it was already
playing an effect in ourmarriage, uh, early on.
And then last thing is thishonest about how your
interpretation of life justifiesyour current way of relating to
others, where you are relating.
(16:01):
Based upon truths that youunderstood as a kid that no
longer apply in adulthood.
And so just to get back to thisquote that we mentioned a little
bit earlier, that the past isn'teven the past.
It hasn't even passed that weare living this out right now.
You are trying to care foryourself with a number of
different behaviors and patternsof thought and patterns of
(16:23):
relating.
But all of our efforts toresolve the lingering ghost of
our family will remain untilwe're able to name our
experience, allow grief to doits work, and embrace hope as we
move forward.
And one of the ways that weembrace hope is with self care.
(16:46):
And Adam has put together thisfantastic list of some things
and thoughts about what does itmean to care for our own souls,
to tend to our own souls.
And so, Adam, why don't youstart with just telling us why
self care is so important?
Adam (17:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, yeah, I think about it, nowI'm thinking about it in terms
of ministering to these ghosts.
I'm like, yeah, this is huge.
You know, and, and I think whythat's the question we have to
ask.
Why is self care so important?
Why does it matter?
And I think embedded in thatquestion is this idea that self
(17:25):
care is, is kind of wrong.
Maybe it's bad.
Maybe it's not totally okay.
And I think every Enneagram typehas a version of this, whether
it's, you know, a type one,assuming or thinking that self
care is lazy or type two, that'sselfish.
A type three self care isunproductive.
You know, if you're like me as atype six, maybe self care feels
(17:46):
irresponsible.
Maybe It feels like a sign ofweakness.
I think, you know, there's thisidea that this is not
necessarily okay.
And sometimes Christians areactually the worst at this, that
there's some sort of idea that alove of self is inherently
wrong.
And I was reminded of a quotefrom Parker Palmer who writes
(18:07):
about self care and why it's notonly important, but why it's
actually essential and why it'sfundamentally good.
It's a good thing.
It's a beautiful thing.
Here's what Palmer said.
He said, self care is never aselfish act.
It is simply good stewardship ofthe only gift I have, the gift I
(18:27):
was put on earth to offerothers.
Any time we can listen to trueself and give it the care it
requires, we do it not only forourselves, But for the many
others whose lives we touch.
I love that.
Self care is good stewardship ofthe only gift that I have and
(18:48):
the gift I was put on earth togive, which is myself.
Do you think it's the
Jeff (18:51):
language, Adam, that, that Christians turn away from is
using the term self?
Self, sure.
Because when you, when you thinkabout all of the scriptures,
what, because what we aresimply, uh, inviting everyone to
here is engagement with God.
Engagement with others andengagement with yourself.
(19:12):
That's right.
That's all we're suggesting byself care.
That's right.
And what does it mean for you tobe at the place, that spirit
filled self, in order to, youknow, faith working itself out
in love?
Yes, but for some reason westart to once we I mean it would
be so hard if you saw a littlechild Grabbing their blankie and
(19:37):
sucking their thumb.
You wouldn't say Stop being soanxious Take your thumb out of
your mouth and give me theblanket and go and do something.
That's right.
So unkind That's right.
Unkind and mean Yeah, what we'reinviting people to is simply to
say like You must be a littleanxious.
(19:57):
It seems like you want, you'relooking for some comfort right
now.
Yes.
And as adults, we do it in much,maybe more sophisticated ways.
I don't know.
Maybe I, I've not found myselfyet with a blankie in my thumb
in my mouth.
Um, I wouldn't put it past me ifit was particularly hurtful
enough, but I, But I probablywouldn't share it on a podcast
though.
(20:17):
I'll share running across thestreet half nude.
Yes
Adam (20:23):
Yes, I told you it's my goal to bring that story up in
every episode we do together Butyou make a great point I think
okay, let's let's talk aboutthat for just a second Jesus
tells us to deny ourselves andtake up our cross and follow
him.
And there's a way in which theBible that this, this comes back
(20:44):
to the way words are used.
You know, I mean, trunk of atree, trunk of a car, trunk of
an elephant.
There's three different ways.
I mean, there's a lot of ways touse the word trunk,
Jeff (20:52):
right?
So.
I am so fascinated by your,mastery of the word trunk.
Just, I mean, I, I w I wasreally impressed.
You rattled those off.
Adam (21:03):
Yeah.
Well, it, it comes back towords.
Context determines meaning.
And, and so when Jesus iscalling us to deny ourselves and
take up our cross and followhim, he is talking about this
part of us, uh, that the rest ofthe Bible identifies as the
flesh.
And it's this part that'sallergic to vulnerability.
(21:26):
It's allergic to trusting God.
It's too afraid to trust Godbecause that's too vulnerable.
And, and, and the flesh knowslike you've been hurt.
So it doubles down on that andbut there's also there's also
the same Jesus tells us thegreatest commandments the sum
total of the Christian life thegoal of Christian maturation is
(21:47):
Love God love your neighbor asyou love So, Jesus makes this
connection between the love ofself and the love of others and
lots of, you know, Uh,commentators have written about
that.
Like, there's something aboutthe way you treat yourself.
You can't give what you haven'treceived or you can't give what
(22:08):
you don't have.
Oh, I remember
Jeff (22:10):
early on thinking about forgiveness.
I will only forgive to thedegree that I have been silenced
by the magnitude of God's gracein my life.
Yes.
I will only love to the degreethat I have experienced the love
and touch of my father, uh, uh,that overwhelms me with
(22:33):
kindness, um, with care and withlove and compassion.
And so that's right.
You can't give what you don'thave.
Adam (22:40):
That's right.
Yeah, you can't give what youdon't have and, and it is, I'll
say, well, I'll say anotherthing.
Just one more thing about this.
It is, it is, it contradicts thewhole gospel to not love
yourself in healthy ways.
It's impossible, and I say thisall the time to, you know,
(23:02):
people I'm coaching because Ineed to hear it for myself.
I cannot, we cannot receiveGod's love and in the same
breath, shame the fool out ofourselves or hate or despise
ourselves.
Like there's no way to receiveGod's love and then be unkind to
myself.
I need, myself needs Needs loveand needs care and it's this
(23:25):
idea of putting on your ownoxygen mask, right?
Like if you're on a plane godforbid it's going down.
Everybody knows this There's areason why you're instructed to
put on your mask before you helpothers.
And it's this, it's thisprinciple of I can't give what I
don't have.
And coming out of the holidays,there's, they're, they're
naturally very stressful on manylevels, financial, emotional.
(23:48):
I mean, um, and it's a very, itcan be a very activating time.
This is especially true rightnow that we need our self needs.
care.
So I think the big question ishow do we do that?
How do we recover?
Uh, and move into the new yearrefreshed and renewed.
Okay.
So, um, you know, Jeff, you justjump in like these are just some
(24:11):
common general Self carepractices, basic self care
practices that really apply toall Enneagram types.
Some may resonate more with youthan others, but I'll jump into
the first one here.
Um, and it's simply silence andsolitude.
This is an ancient practice.
Um, you know, it's this idea ofgetting alone with yourself and
(24:31):
with God.
All the Enneagram fives arelike, yes, please.
Like, I
Jeff (24:37):
would love to do that.
That's right.
Adam (24:39):
Yeah.
Coming out of the holidays.
Oh yes.
And, um, This is, this is apattern.
You see a rhythm and a habitthat you see all throughout the
life of Jesus.
I think about Luke chapter five.
Uh, this Jesus has had thisreally busy day of being with
people engaging in relationshippouring out Uh, and and then
we're told in chapter 5 verse 16of Luke's gospel And we're told
(25:02):
Jesus often withdrew to lonelyplaces and prayed.
And I like the message versionsays as often as possible Jesus
withdrew to out of the wayplaces for prayer.
So this is like a regular habitin his life where he slips away
from people.
He loves people.
(25:22):
He slips, he also needs a break,right?
But he needs boundaries andneeds to get away from people to
be alone in the quiet withhimself and with his father.
And so, I think coming out ofthe, uh, of the holidays and
possibly even a rhythm that youset for 2022 moving forward is
just a regular practice ofsilence and solitude.
You find a time and a place thatwork for you.
(25:43):
Um, whether that's morning,noon, night after, like whatever
you find a time and place thatfits your schedule and your
rhythm and you start your timewith some some silent prayer,
like just be still.
All right.
And, um, I think it was BlaisePascal that said, uh, all of
man, something like all of man'sproblems can, can be traced back
(26:05):
to his inability to sit in aroom alone with himself.
Jeff (26:10):
So, cause what happens when you do that, I think that,
um, even, uh, not whole man, I'mpretty good.
Uh, Dietrich Bonhoeffer evendiscussed in his book on
fellowship and community, uh,is, uh, You're the people who
overemphasize community or justas much of a threat of people
who over overemphasize Detachingor avoidance of God's people But
(26:37):
the reality is is that youyou've got to be okay with
yourself in order to be okaywith people Yes, it it is It is
provocative and disturbing.
I mean, think of all, if youthink of the equal but opposite
behavior, think about how muchwe give ourselves to whenever
first thing you do in themorning is check facebook, check
(26:59):
tiktok, instagram, uh, twitter,whatever the new, whatever news
channel you have.
Like you're literally a tuning.
Your heart to something everyday and that is a way of you
avoiding what's actuallyhappening in your interior world
Yes, but that's the very placethat the lord intends to meet us
(27:23):
Uh in these solitary placeswhere we can quiet down and
quiet the thoughts in our headthe beat of our heart The pace
of our breath so that we cansimply be still I mean, I think
of moses You They're at the RedSea, you know, there's this
passage earlier on it said Godcould have taken them another
way, but they weren't going totrust him.
(27:44):
And so he took them this way.
They're landlocked.
Now they're surrounded by waterand armies coming after them.
And God says, be still the Lordfights for you.
Oh man.
And it's scary.
It's difficult, but even justtake the time to be quiet for
increasing amounts of time.
(28:05):
Start with five minutes.
See if you can get to 15.
Just so that you can recognizewhat it is that you're doing,
trying to resolve your past.
Adam (28:15):
Yeah, that's so good.
You mentioned Bonhoeffer.
I think he, in that same, inthat same resource, I think
that's where he said, the curefor loneliness is both community
and solitude.
Then that, like that's the curefor loneliness.
It's not, no, it's not onlycommunity, but also solitude.
Solitude is different fromisolation, right?
Solitude is I'm intentionallygetting alone with myself.
(28:37):
Yeah.
And with God and so yeah, startwith some silence,
Jeff (28:43):
you know, Adam, you and I both have experience with one
particular community of peoplethat one of their phrases that
they love to use is I'm lonelywith you.
Yes, but it's such an accuratecomment.
I mean, but think about thatwhenever.
You're with your family.
Let's say you're with a spousewith a sibling or whatever and
they are so attuned to thedynamics that happening in the
(29:06):
family that it's hard for theirhearts and minds to be attuned
with you.
And we experience thatloneliness with one another
versus having a groundedrelationship, like this is
family, that's their stuff, thatI am who I am.
This is my spouse and I canattune to them.
And so it's an apt word.
You're right.
(29:26):
That to be to as a remedy forloneliness, to be able to be
alone is a tremendous gift.
Adam (29:36):
And don't you know, Jesus often felt that way with crowds
and crowds and crowds of people,but yet he was so misunderstood.
They, they struggled to connectwith his heart and who he really
was.
And.
He needed that even as, as they,you know, it's translated there,
uh, in Luke 5 16, he needed towithdraw to lonely places and to
be alone with the father andwith himself.
(29:58):
And so when you do this, youwant to start with silence.
You want to focus on yourbreathing.
I find it helpful because Ieasily get distracted, uh, to,
to, to add prayers, attach aprayer to my breathing rhythms.
You know, if I start to getdistracted, just inhale and pray
like, God, help me be here withyou.
Uh, exhale and pray, God, wouldyou be here with me?
(30:19):
Uh, something like that.
Something simple.
And I, I just, you know, payattention to your thoughts and
feelings and compulsions thatsurface.
Those are all places where Godwants to meet you with grace.
And, and after a brief period ofsilence, you know, you might
meditate on a passage ofScripture.
You might move into opening yourheart and mind to God and
sharing.
What's on your heart and mind,whether that's complaints,
(30:41):
requests, gratitude.
I mean, and yes, all of that,all of the above.
So I think that's huge.
That's a huge self carepractice, uh, of silence and
solitude.
Um, next I would just saypractice gratitude.
You know, create, create agratitude ritual that you carry
with you.
Uh, maybe make these, by theway, these are all great, like
(31:03):
resolutions moving into the newyear.
Um, draw your attention to thethings for which you're grateful
and give thanks to God for thosethings.
Um, You know, uh, one way to dothis, I've, I've practiced this,
I've been in seasons ofpracticing this before is you
write down 24 things that you'rethankful for in the last 24
hours.
(31:24):
Um, I think that, I think somepeople call this the prayer of
examine, right?
You reflect back over your last24 hours or over the last week.
And you just start to noticelike, where were the blessings?
You know, you talk aboutcounting your blessings and
that's true.
You just thank God for thebreath in your lungs and the
clothes on your back.
And none of it's reframing.
You're not diminishing the pain.
(31:46):
You're simply practicing.
That's
Jeff (31:48):
interesting.
You say that, Adam, because thatwas one of the things that, what
we're not promoting here is.
To look at your family of originand maybe individuals and to
name ways that you're gratefulfor them So that you'll somehow
think less or that's right mythe answer that that's not what
that's not what this exercise isIt's recognizing that your
(32:08):
Heavenly Father has been withyou And that he, he is with you
even now in this moment.
Um, it, it's almost like Davidpraying.
Why so downcast?
Oh, my soul, uh, rejoice.
Like there's a, a way that he'ssaying like there is pain, there
is hopelessness, but also torecognize the providence that
(32:29):
where God has been present,where I've not always recognized
it.
Adam (32:33):
Yeah.
This is not, that's such a greatword.
And I, I, I felt compelled tosay that because I, I can.
I don't want to encouragereframing and I don't want to
encourage denying, you know, Iknow we're throwing around some
quotes here, but I love TremperLongman, you know, as an old
Testament guy.
And he says that to deny yourfeelings is to turn your back on
(32:55):
reality and reality is where Godis.
So the only way to live inreality and meet God is to
acknowledge the pain of And yet,you know, give thanks to the
Lord for he is good, hissteadfast love endures forever.
You know, give thanks to theLord in all circumstances.
So there's an appropriate way toacknowledge like, like you said,
God is with me in this and hehas, he has, he has gifted me in
(33:20):
so many ways tangibly.
He has expressed his love.
Um, not to mention at the cross,like the most ultimate way he's
declared his love over me.
So there's, there's thispractice of gratitude that
ministers to anxiety.
It ministers to these ghosts.
Um, and it's just an importantpractice for healing and for
recovery.
Um, exercise or go for a walk.
(33:42):
You know, um, I have a mentorthat used to say to me
regularly, uh, Adam, you don'thave a body.
You are a body, you know, you'rean embodied soul.
So this means that, that one ofthe ways that we recover and we
take care of ourselves is we, weengage our bodies.
So, you know, go on an extralong run.
(34:05):
Uh, if that's your thing, get,get back in the gym.
If that's your thing.
I know a lot of times, you know,we get out of those gym rhythms
during the holiday season.
So, um, get a deep tissuemassage.
If that's your thing, you know,go on some long walks, You've
got to do something to kind ofengage your body.
Jeff, we talk about this a lot.
(34:26):
You know, it's also true thatour bodies just hold stress and
pain and hold memories.
You know, um, Bessel van derKolk's done really important
work on that.
I mean, he's done the seminalwork on that.
And in his book, The Body Keepsthe Score, you can read all
about that.
But, um, there's just helpfulpractices to release stress.
(34:46):
stress and pain, emotional painfrom your body and rejuvenate.
Um, so exercise, go for a walk,do something to engage your
body.
Anything you want to add tothat, Jeff?
Jeff (34:59):
No, I, I, I think you're, you're dead on here.
You know, the only thing that Iwould also add, I do remember I
was at a marriage retreat withDan Allender and his wife once,
and Beth was there and I wasasking him, Particularly as a
pastor, I recognize that noteverybody has resources to go
and pay hundreds of dollars fora therapist after every family
(35:21):
gathering.
And so I just ask him personallyin my own life.
So I go to recovery meetings andI do my times of silence and
solitude.
I call them team meetings.
And, um, we, uh, I asked him,well, what do you recommend?
For someone to do and he saidone go on long slow walks And he
(35:45):
said if you rev up the body,you're revving up everything
inside He said slow it down asslow as you can go and take a
while linger And the other onewas, um, aromatherapy and I
wasn't, I thought that wasgreat.
All of our, uh, essential oilfolks are like, yeah, oh yes.
(36:06):
But I, that stuff matters.
I mean, think about it this way,just putting in over the
holidays.
Um, so in my wife's family, theFitzy family, they, one of their
big things is stuffing.
It's a sage.
Stuffing.
Bread stuffing.
Sounds delicious.
I know it's Thanksgiving when Ismell that stuffing being made.
(36:31):
All the memories come back.
All the previous Thanksgivingsall come back because of it.
Even whenever I smell evergreentrees now, Christmas is around.
We know this to be true.
Well, guess what?
That, that also means that our,our body is keeping memories
like that with other smells aswell.
(36:53):
That's right.
And so, you have to recognizeyour body.
Um, even, even to think of itthis way, even going back home
is an experience that you arecarrying in your body.
When you drive into yourhometown, when you have, when
you see things, it's almost likethe backdrop to a movie, like
(37:15):
those are the backdrops to yourmemories.
And so you can expect thatyou're going to be carrying that
in your body.
Adam (37:23):
That's so good.
So, so true.
Yeah.
So, um, so go for a walk, get,you know, do something to, to
take care of yourself in thatway.
Physically.
Um, next grab, grab a relationaltouch point with a friend.
Um, it's been said the greatestgift of life is friendship.
And there's a lot of truth tothat.
I mean, we, we are made forfriendship.
(37:46):
And, uh, so coming out of this,like maybe you just need to grab
some time with a friend, grablunch, grab coffee.
a phone call, a zoom call.
Um, and just, just hang out.
I mean, share your family oforigin experience, talk about
what it was like or not just,just enjoy some friendship.
It gives you a chance to, to, tofeel seen, to feel understood,
(38:10):
maybe even to unburden somestuff, let a friend be a friend
and, and, and help, you know,take some of those burdens off
of you.
It's just, uh, you know, crucialto recovery.
So, uh, grab some kind ofrelational touch point with a
friend
Jeff (38:23):
on touching base with a friend.
I mean, I, I, I can't rememberthe physician and article.
It came out of Memphis, I thinkis how, where I was introduced
to it, but it was talking aboutthat the remedy to, Uh,
addiction is not sobriety, butit's connection.
And that, that is, I know thatthis is, it sounds
(38:48):
counterintuitive, but when youhave a friend, when you can be
the friend who bears witness toanother person's pain, just to
bear witness, not advice, givingor caretaking, but just simply
saying to them, I see your pain.
I see it's consequences in yourlife today.
And I'm so sorry.
(39:09):
Is healing to people like youhave an opportunity in your
coffee shop conversations to bea healing influence in the lives
of others just simply bylistening to and attuning to
people whenever they're sharingthese stories with you it yeah
try look for that friend thatsafe friend that you can connect
(39:31):
with and share what's reallygoing on in your heart and you
will find healing.
Adam (39:35):
Absolutely.
Um, create a reset ritual withyour own family is, is a, is a
key practice for self care.
You know, if you're married, ifyou have kids do, do something
to regroup with your crew.
Jeff, what is it you and Bethcall your family?
You guys call it, you guys havea name for it, right?
Jeff (39:56):
That's funny.
I didn't know you knew that.
That's I do.
I do know that.
Okay.
So, um, Gosh, I always felt likeI have to explain this, but it
was a nickname that was given tome.
So my, my last name is McCord,but I was adopted.
And in, when I was around 30, Ifound my biological mother, um,
(40:20):
who was multiple generationMexican, even before it was
Dallas.
And so I am this Latin Scottishlooking guy.
And so my nickname for my sevenpart is in ministry guys started
calling me El McCordo.
Uh, and so the name of ourfamily is the El McCordo squad.
Adam (40:47):
Yes.
Okay.
And what I love about that is itcommunicates that you and Beth
and your children have your ownnuclear family unit.
You, you, you, you are not, youare not your family of origin.
You have your own, you haveyour, you have your own squad,
so to speak.
So, um, do something with yoursquad that hits the reset
(41:12):
button, um, that buildsrelationship.
And that reminds you who you areas a family, what you value as a
family.
It could be a movie night.
Jeff (41:22):
I love this one.
I just think this is if there'sone way of Differentiating
between I and we you know,what's we as my family of origin
and who am I is?
To have get back into a ritualthat says this is my new we
that's for for our familyParticularly over christmas
(41:44):
since the extended period oftime each member gets to choose
one thing to do over that breakYou That's it and it could be we
go to top golf We go to a funnew restaurant in nashville Uh,
I just bought a new game that Isaw on tiktok the other day Um,
it's called cluster k l u s t er uh cluster Um, try not to fill
(42:07):
that in with other words, butjust stay with cluster Um, but
it's these little magnets.
It's not competitive.
But all you're doing is justputting putting these magnetized
rocks in a circle and trying nottrying to keep them from, uh,
gathering together super fun.
And it'll be a nice little gamenight for our family.
(42:28):
We'll, we'll pour some fundrinks and then just have fun
together.
But these little things help meto stay engaged with what's
happening in the present, notliving out the pain of my past.
Adam (42:42):
That's right.
It's a way to, it's a way toeven, again, to soothe these
ghosts, to remind them we arenot here, they're anymore.
We are here now.
And we have a chance to createnew rhythms and even break some
generational, you know, cursesand move forward, uh, not in
(43:02):
perfection, but in a new waywith, with this crew, with this
squad.
So those are great resetrituals, Jeff, that you
mentioned.
And for you who are listening,it could be.
go family movie night, gamenight, cook a meal together, go
out for dinner.
Like Jeff's talking about.
I mean, let the kids pick athing like what, I mean, just do
something with your family, yourcrew to kind of hit that reset
(43:26):
button.
Jeff (43:28):
So for you and Carrie, what, what is something that you
do for your family that'sunique, that's different from
your, other
Adam (43:35):
families.
Yeah, that's a that's a greatquestion.
So we do, uh, we will alwaystake the last couple nights of
Christmas break after we'refinished with all the Christmas
parties.
Uh, we've we've done, you know,we've opened all the presents.
We've done all the rounds withall the family and friends and
(43:57):
all of that.
We take the last two or threedays of Christmas of Christmas
break.
And it's really similar to whatyou're saying, Jeff.
We left each each of our girls.
We have three daughters picksomething that they want to do
during the day.
I'm typically off work duringthat time.
And so each one of them gets aspecial date.
And then we just do late nightmovie nights and game nights.
We have a big dining room tableand are one of our favorite
(44:20):
things to do is, um, my oldestdaughter and my wife will be on
one into that table withpuzzles.
And they'll be, they'll beputting puzzles, they'll be
working on puzzles togetherwhile the other girls and I will
be down at the other end of thetable, uh, the other two and
myself and we'll be coloring andit's just a thing.
And, you know, like, I'm arecord, you know, you know,
(44:41):
Jeff, I'm a, I'm a vinyl recordguy.
So we've got like music playingthe whole time and we just.
We just create these, thesemoments together like that.
And it's just, it's just a wayto minister to everyone to say,
look, I know the last few dayshave been good, but also hard
and stressful and, and, and alittle, little, you know,
anxious.
(45:01):
And, but this is, this is ushitting a reset button,
regrouping.
Spending quality time, makingour own memories, building, you
know, having these relationaltouch points with each other.
Um, and, uh, and then of coursethe last night before school
starts back, we like, shut it,we get back in the militant
mode.
You guys are going to bed at 6PM.
(45:22):
Uh, what's that Christmas songwhere they have that line where
it's like, mom and dad canhardly wait for school to start
again.
Like that's, that's by thatpoint.
By that point, Jeff, Carrie andI are not only wounded from our
family of origin story, butwe're wounded from our own
children.
Uh, and we need them to go backto public school.
(45:45):
Um, yeah.
Well, even
Jeff (45:47):
with young adult kids, to be quite honest with you, like
we're, we're starting to haveour own rhythm of life and it's
more like, you know what, Nateand Libby, it's a time for you
to go back to school and you'relike, you know what, I'm tired
of being around mom and dad.
I want to be around my friendsand get back into my own
routines.
I will say this too about thelittle game that I was telling
(46:08):
you, that cluster game I wastelling you about.
We as a family have never beenable to play games together.
We can't do any games and we'vetried multiple times over the
years and it never works And soI just want to tell everyone
that even like we're stilltrying we're still creating
(46:28):
these opportunities To connectwith one another We haven't
solved anything.
Um, but I happen to be look orsurfing around on tick tock one
day and found this whole gamingside of tick tock and found one
that I thought, okay, that's notgonna be as competitive.
So maybe we won't argue throughthis one.
So it's hopeful.
(46:50):
I'll have to, I'll let you guysknow in the new year whether or
not we made it or not.
Adam (46:54):
So good.
Well, just a couple more ofthese here.
I think we've already kind ofmentioned this, but one helpful
practice of self care.
This one has to do with a littlemore on the on the abstaining
side of the scale, but you wantto kind of limit.
some of those escapist orindulgent behaviors.
Um, you know, when you'reactivated, sometimes we just, we
(47:18):
just want to escape or indulge,you know, and, uh, reach for the
fix.
You know, when I, when I'manxious, when I get activated, I
want to reach for the fix.
And sometimes the fix might be,you know, my five part kicking
in of withdrawal and shuttingdown.
Sometimes it's my seven part,seven wing kicking in and it's
(47:38):
like, let's indulge, let's gobig, let's consume, let's numb,
you know?
So, um, and I think there'sappropriate ways to, to withdraw
and to like, indulge and eat,drink and be merry, certainly.
But you have to have thediscernment to know is this, is
this self care?
Or is this escaping something?
Is this numbing something?
(47:59):
So you think about, yeah.
Were you going to add somethingthere, Jeff?
Jeff (48:02):
No, no, no, no.
Yeah.
Just agreeing to the reality ofit.
Is it, um, you know, there,there are times to give one
another the space to kind of,uh, maybe go on a walk, but let
that time be intentionalwhenever you are getting a time
alone.
Um, but yeah, there aredefinitely, Breeze.
I mean, there's, we'redisassociating when these things
(48:24):
happen and we're trying to justcalm everything down around us.
Uh, so we want to limit thoseopportunities or to use alone
time for intentional reasons,not just to disassociate and not
feel.
Adam (48:38):
That's right.
That's right.
So whether it's screens, food,drink, you know, excessive
cleaning, working, shopping,like instead of reaching for
escape, reach for presence, youknow, reach for.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna stayengaged.
Um, like again, it's totallyappropriate to, with, to, to
withdraw to those lonely placesor, uh, man, watch, do, do a
(49:01):
little Netflix binge.
Like I'll, I'll, I love that.
Right.
Have some popcorn and watch afew of your favorite episodes of
some.
There's that's great.
That's great.
It's a beautiful, restful, uh,self care.
But, uh, the other people aroundyou will probably can, like, if
you're, if you're married or youhave close friends, can probably
help you discern whether or notthis is, you're doing this in a
(49:22):
healthy way or not.
Um, I think about Kyle, our, ourfriend Kyle Turner.
You know, to give a little shoutout to him, when he said as a
type nine, um, he had said that,you know, we were, he, we were
talking with him, uh.
At ACC about how do you know ifwhen you're playing games on
your phone, how do you know ifit's disassociation and like,
(49:43):
um, escaping numbing, uh, or ifit's just like self care.
I'm just doing this because Ienjoy it and it's, it's restful.
And he said, um, if my wife islonely with me.
It probably means it's, it's notlike I'm doing, I'm, I'm doing
this too much.
It's probably escape, escapisttype stuff.
(50:03):
So check in with, check in withthe people that you do life with
and they can help you with somefeedback on that.
So last one, a really simple,just do something for you.
You know, this could besomething that we've already
mentioned.
This could be nurturing yourhobby.
It could be developing a newhobby that you've like, you want
to carry with you into the newyear, cooking, reading, making
(50:26):
music, writing.
I wrote a song recently.
I haven't written a song in along time.
I used to write songs all thetime.
And my, my brother in law turned40 and I wrote a fun song,
making fun of him.
And, uh, and it was, it was so,it was such a good, uh, self
care thing for my wife saidyou've got to do more of that.
(50:47):
Um, you know, woodworking birdwatching, like, you know, my
wife likes to color, like she'llbuy these, these like complex
adult coloring books and like,um, so give yourself a snow day,
like just a free day to, to dosomething just for you and feel
no guilt or shame about it.
(51:07):
God, God is that generous thathe would love to just bless you
with, with something like that.
So those are some tips and somethings that I'm, I'm trying to
embody and practice myself,Jeff, in terms of just
recovering and taking care ofmyself.
Jeff (51:22):
Man, what a fantastic list.
I really super appreciate youputting those thoughts together.
And yeah, some of them sadly arevery obvious to us.
We know that they would behelpful, but we've never had
the, uh, We've given ourselvespermission, uh, to do them.
Now you'll notice none of thisincluded actually seeing a
mental health professional.
(51:43):
These are things that you cansimply do yourself to tend to
your soul.
We're not promising ultimatehealing here and, uh, the chains
of these ghosts of the past are,are no longer present.
That's not what we're promisinghere, but we are promising
connection, connection with God,connection with others, and
connection with your own soul.
Um, one thing I'd like to endwith.
(52:05):
Uh, is a passage that has meanta ton to me as I have embarked
upon this journey of allowingChrist to touch my family of
origin in the story that, um,that we had together.
And it's from Isaiah 61 and itsays this, it says, the spirit
of the Lord God is upon me togive them a beautiful headdress
(52:28):
instead of ashes, the oil ofgladness instead of mourning.
The garment of praise instead ofa faint spirit that they may be
called oaks of righteousness.
They shall, they shall build upancient ruins.
They shall raise up the formerdevastations.
They shall repair the ruincities, the devastation of many
(52:52):
generations.
So here's the good news that Godwill not never leave you nor
forsake you, and that heintends.
To bring healing for your life,no matter where you're at.
I, I, one song that I love, um,I'm forgetting his name right
now who wrote it, but it was theidea that if you're lost, you
(53:15):
can always be found.
And no matter where, whereyou're at or what you've
experienced, there is hope thatthe Lord will help you to heal.
Well, guys, we hope you'veenjoyed, uh, the podcast for
2021 and particularly thisepisode, so hopeful that it
would be, uh, helpful to you.
We're excited about the newcontent and, uh, even some, uh,
(53:37):
new changes to the podcast in2022.
We'll be taking a short break atthe beginning of the year to
work on some fun, new additionsto the podcast and prepare for
all of that, but we're lookingforward to all that's ahead in
2022.
If you can keep this really,really quiet, we've not
announced it anywhere, but we'rereleasing our next book next
(53:58):
year.
Adam (53:59):
What was that, Jeff?
I didn't hear.
I didn't quite hear that.
Jeff (54:03):
Oh man, if you missed it, bro, I'm sorry if you missed it.
Adam (54:06):
You guys hit that, uh, the 15 second back button a couple
times, uh, and, uh, just turnthe volume up real loud and
listen very closely and you'llhear.
Jeff (54:17):
That's, that's the joys of being a last episode of the
year.
Listener, you get big surprises.
Thanks for joining us.
Don't forget to check out theshow notes as well and all the
resources mentioned in theepisode and the episodes that we
previously did with our guests.
And always remember this, theEnneagram reveals our need for
Jesus, not our need to workharder.
(54:38):
It's the Gospel that transformsus
Well, welcome to your Enneagram coach the podcast.
(00:02):
I am Jeff McCord Co founder andCEO and here I'm with Adam
Breckinridge the director ofcoaching We're wrapping up our
home for the holiday series.
Many of you have spent time, uh,with your family and you might
be feeling a little activated.
Um, all kinds of dynamics, uh,both the past.
There's this great quote that,uh, many pass around when
(00:23):
talking about our families, thatthe past isn't the past, it's
not even past.
Um, And so, uh, maybe you evenfeel a little wounded, um,
whether things said or unsaid,but just realizing that there's
unresolved pain that's still,uh, creeping up on you.
We're going to talk a little bitabout that, but our hope is to
be able to give you some toolstoday so that you can take care
(00:46):
of yourself to pay attention towhat your soul needs.
Uh, today, Beth is taking abreak.
Christmas is here for Beth.
And so.
It's Adam, our Breckenridge, ourdirector of coaching and myself.
Uh, today, uh, I do remember thelast time we, uh, I did this
with a friend.
Uh, his name is Travis Stewart.
(01:07):
We were talking about on anInstagram live feed on, um,
eating disorders and Enneagramtypes, and, um, Travis and I
were talking about it being allprofound and helpful and
bringing hope to people, andthen people started Who are
these guys?
Like, why?
(01:29):
Where's Ben?
So, my new nickname that my kidshave given to me is Jeff
Wachowski.
Because, uh, I feel like my faceis always blocked whenever I'm
on TV.
(01:49):
Well, Adam, hey, welcome to theshow.
Glad you're here with me tofinish out this year and give
some help to some people.
Adam (01:56):
Thanks for having me, man.
I'm always so glad to hang outwith you.
Um, and I'm, I'm really gladthat we're giving Beth a break
for Christmas.
Merry Christmas, Beth.
Merry Christmas to all ourlisteners.
Um, uh, so our last episode forthe season.
So, um, yeah, we're hoping to goout in a way that.
We equip you like Jeff, like yousaid, give you guys some tools
(02:17):
to help you heal and recover.
I'm really glad that we'retalking about this.
I think self care is, is one ofthe most, we'll get into this a
little more, uh, in thisepisode, but I think it's one of
the most essential disciplinesthat we need as human beings and
Yet at the same time, it's atleast for me, it's one of those
things that we neglect andstruggle with the most.
(02:38):
And I know that from personalexperience.
So yeah, I'm super thrilled tobe here and I'm eager to dive
into this with you today.
Jeff (02:45):
You know, just hearing you share there, a couple of things
came to mind for me.
Number one, I remember duringcampus ministry days, um, when,
We would meet these students.
We would work with them for thatfirst semester.
And then the last large groupmessage that we always gave was,
what does it look like to walkwith God when you go home?
(03:05):
Why?
Because we, it's almost like webecome different people.
Uh, we've had to talk to ourson, Nate, when he comes home
because, uh, he, he's veryactive, very extroverted, but
sometimes when he comes home, hegets very introverted, he, you
know.
Uh, kind of secludes and getssuper quiet.
It happens.
It's just, it's just kind offamily.
The other thing that really cameto mind that here's the reality
(03:28):
for all of us.
We are actively caring forourselves at all times.
Whether or not we are doing agood job of it or a harmful job
of it, we are always caring forourselves.
And when we, after spending timewith.
our families, um, there's goingto be, uh, whether you're aware
(03:51):
of it or not, a naturalinclination to go and try to
heal some of that pain.
And we, we want to give you somehelpful strategies, some maybe
some insightful ones that wouldbe applicable to your
experience, but we want to tryto reuse much of a help as we
possibly can.
And we are in this with you.
(04:12):
I mean, it, we don't, We're notjust talking heads here and, uh,
spouting off information.
Uh, we have our own, uh,experiences for this year.
I know that, uh, Adam and hisfamily, there's, it's been a
significant year of loss forboth he and his wife.
Uh, and then that's impacted.
Also just COVID has impacted ourfamily and decisions about
(04:34):
travel and how much we're witheach other and, uh, parents
getting older and what that'sgoing to mean.
So it's all around us.
And these are some things thathave been helpful for us that
we've learned over the years.
And we hope that it's going tobe a help for you.
Well, before we jump in, Iwanted to share some things as
we were preparing for dealingwith our family of origin.
I typical, I call this type fivewing that I have.
(04:58):
I call him Bob and Bob goes intoresearch mode whenever he has
any questions.
Some angst about a topic that,uh, we're going to be talking
about, but I came across somegreat stuff and it was a book
that I had in seminary called,you can go home again by Monica
McGoldrick.
And she has this quote that Ithought was fascinating.
(05:20):
And this is more, So, uh, thereason why I want to share this
is just to bring to life whatmay be coming up for you from
family so that you can kind ofat least come out of denial for
a little bit.
And she says this, your ghostcan haunt you.
Voices in your head, soundingout with disapproval, threats of
(05:41):
further abandonment.
And loss of yourself.
These ghosts can stand betweenyou and all that you cherish in
life, or they can taint anotherwise productive and
satisfying life with sadness.
Man, I, I, whenever I see that Iisn't that part of the sorrow,
(06:04):
Adam, is I recognize that in myrelationship, let's say with
Beth, that some of the wounds ofmy family get in the way of
Yeah.
The kind of relationship that Iwant with Beth.
Yeah, as you were talking
Adam (06:18):
earlier, Jeff, you were talking about how, um, the past
is, is never passed, uh, youknow, in, in, in coaching and
pastoral care, sometimes you getresistance from others, and I
get it, cause, I do this too,but sometimes you get resistance
of, I don't want to go back tothe past.
(06:38):
I don't want to live in thepast.
I don't want to, and I want toaffirm that, yeah, nobody wants
to just go live in the past.
But the problem is you don'thave to go back and to live in
the past because the past liveswith you in the present and it
goes everywhere with you.
So that's.
This, to frame that as thisimage of ghosts, that really
resonates deeply.
Jeff (06:59):
You know, it, it's interesting because in, uh, the
Apostle Paul, he had a phrasethat one time some, a fairly
unaware person once kind ofchallenged me with that, uh, in
regards to the pastoralcounseling that I did.
And he said, you know, Paul saysthat he forgets what's behind
and strives for what is ahead.
(07:22):
So why do we spend so much timetalking about our past and I a
little snarky a littlesarcastically I'm like, yeah,
that's where we all want to be.
But the reason why he said itit's because we're still hung up
in our past Yeah, yeah, we wantto get to that.
That's the redemptive languagethat we want to be free from
(07:42):
these previous Roles andemotions and pains, but yeah, we
can't we can't Our movingforward is held back because
we've not brought the gospel tobear upon what we've experienced
in our childhood, in our youngadult years.
Monica McGoltrick goes on alittle bit further to say that
(08:03):
these ghosts, the way that shedefines them, could be number
one, strong emotions.
And Think of strong emotions,not just as outbursts, like
overperforming or excitingemotions, but also, uh, the
desire to want to close off,isolate and disengage.
Uh, so strong emotions in bothdirections.
(08:25):
Uh, number two, physicalsymptoms.
Uh, does your lower back hurt?
Do you, like, do you findtightness in your shoulders and
neck?
Like are, are, Just even reflectupon how are you breathing is
this those can be ghosts of thepast?
Repeated relational patterns.
Are you inclined to do thingsthat you haven't done in years,
(08:45):
but for some reason?
Whenever you're around familythat all of a sudden you're
wanting to Enter back into thosebehaviors and then lastly
relational roles Um, it's fat,uh, Beth and I, we've talked a
little bit about it in some ofthese episodes, but you know,
whenever I go home, I'm a littlebit of a different Jeff because
(09:08):
there's kind of think of aneedle, uh, on the, on a record.
It's trying to find the grooveand man, when you go back home
for some reason, somehow youslip back into a group.
It's like, where did my husbandgo?
Adam, I'm curious for you, likewhat is that like for you as you
think about spending time withfamily and how that shows up for
(09:29):
you?
Adam (09:30):
Yeah, so I pretty much turned back into, um, I doubled
down on being responsible andthat was the role I had to play.
And nobody's asking me to playthat role anymore, by the way.
But no one's
Jeff (09:44):
even saying it like you're responsible for the party, for
getting everybody there on time.
Yeah.
No one said anything.
Adam (09:50):
No one said anything, but my body remembers and I, I just,
I just get, I get sent home.
I become eight or nine or 10 andthis, that, that was the role
that I played, uh, during thattime period of my life.
And so that's what I become.
I doubled down onresponsibility.
(10:11):
I become, you know, extra loyal,extra dutiful.
I work really hard.
I kind of try to manage theroom, manage other people's
emotions and expectations, and,uh, in a sense, kind of caretake
everyone and It's exhausting.
So coming, that's why thisepisode is more than I want to
(10:32):
teach.
I want to learn through thisepisode.
I need help here because comingout of the holidays, I am, I am
typically just exhausted and mywife knows she notices and she,
you know, she points this out.
She tries to, you know, you'redoing this to yourself a little
bit here.
And it's an unconscious thing.
You know, I just pick up theroll and I pick up where I left
off.
Jeff (10:53):
You know, it's interesting.
You talk about exhaustion inthat way.
You know, there as a pastor andhaving pastored in the Midwest
and now a little bit furtherdown into the Southeast, um, it
gets really dark here, uh, inNashville, particularly in the
winter time.
So, We're usually dark by 4.
30 in the afternoon.
And I remember as a pastor beinghere initially in that first and
(11:14):
second year and realizing peoplewere coming for more help
because they were, they were alittle anxious regarding their
spiritual life or theirrelational life without fully
recognizing.
Well, maybe you just need somevitamin D.
That's right.
Your relationship with Christ isperfectly fine.
(11:35):
You just need a little help fromyour body.
Well, I think the same can betrue about just the hang the
relational hangover of beingwith family.
That do you find yourselfexhausted.
And it's amazing.
I mean, there's a lot ofpassages in the scriptures
about, um, about sleep and aboutGod meeting us in sleep and
(11:57):
being at rest with sleeping.
But it is, it is a dynamic to beaware of.
Do you find yourself coming backhome and over functioning that
for some reason you have toclean the house?
Or do you find yourself notwanting to do anything whenever
you come back home and you allthe negative messages about
(12:18):
yourself when reality is, isthat this is just your body
trying to work itself out fromsome of the implications of your
past?
Yeah.
Well, what we're really wantingto invite you to, and I think
the key word here is, Honestyand to experience honesty with
yourself and maybe with thewitness of another person and,
(12:41):
and especially in yourrelationship with God regarding
your past that rather thanrunning from it or trying, you
know, the way that Dan Allendertalks about it, that we are
trying to fill numb or blindourselves to some of the things
that we've experienced early onin our stories.
Um, and so we're wanting toinvite you to honesty.
(13:03):
And you're going to see thatthrough a lot of these
suggestions about how you canbegin to heal from your
experiences of the holidays.
And that means honest about whathappened.
Not only honest about whathappened at this last dinner or
lunch experience, but what, whathappened that's led up to this,
uh, secondly, honest about theeffects of what's happened.
(13:26):
I mean, it is so comforting attimes for when Beth and I name,
What was lost because, uh,whatever providence happened in
our early childhood and tosimply grieve what was lost,
like there's a part of this sixheart of mine that confidence
(13:47):
was lost and she can ask me tobe more confident.
She can get angry with me to bemore confident.
She can overlook me not beingconfident.
But to just simply look at me inthe eyes and say, Jeff, I, I
know that there's a confidentheart in you, but at one point
that was lost.
And I think we could say thatabout all of the nine types.
(14:09):
Honest about our interpretationabout what happened.
I mean, I, one of the gifts thatI think that spouses bring to us
is that they bring a new way ofseeing.
I never saw.
How parents in my family andparents through all the
siblings, aunts, uncles, allthat stuff, how they talked
about children and children arejust a pain.
(14:33):
They are a burden to bear andthere's not a lot of love and
affection given to them andcuriosity and playfulness with
them.
It's always this kind ofshameful sarcasm and, uh,
nicknames that are just weren'thelpful.
Well, that is.
It applies to ourinterpretation.
So our family, our spouses, ourkids can bring new insight into
(14:55):
what family we experienced.
And then honest about how ourinterpretations worked for our
family.
Just like you said, Adam, Imean, being the responsible kid,
it served a function in thefamily and maybe they needed you
to serve that role.
Um, but now with your wife,Carrie and your girls, like they
may not need you to be in thatrole in the same way that you
(15:17):
were before, but it sure doesfeel familiar.
And we want to do those roles.
I remember, uh, Beth even sayingto me early on in marriage, I
don't know how to be your wife,which meant I didn't need her
the way that she thought I wouldneed her and nor was she going
to, nor did she need to be thewoman that she thought she
(15:40):
needed to be, to be a lovingwife.
And it just revealed so much ofour past and how it was already
playing an effect in ourmarriage, uh, early on.
And then last thing is thishonest about how your
interpretation of life justifiesyour current way of relating to
others, where you are relating.
(16:01):
Based upon truths that youunderstood as a kid that no
longer apply in adulthood.
And so just to get back to thisquote that we mentioned a little
bit earlier, that the past isn'teven the past.
It hasn't even passed that weare living this out right now.
You are trying to care foryourself with a number of
different behaviors and patternsof thought and patterns of
(16:23):
relating.
But all of our efforts toresolve the lingering ghost of
our family will remain untilwe're able to name our
experience, allow grief to doits work, and embrace hope as we
move forward.
And one of the ways that weembrace hope is with self care.
(16:46):
And Adam has put together thisfantastic list of some things
and thoughts about what does itmean to care for our own souls,
to tend to our own souls.
And so, Adam, why don't youstart with just telling us why
self care is so important?
Adam (17:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, yeah, I think about it, nowI'm thinking about it in terms
of ministering to these ghosts.
I'm like, yeah, this is huge.
You know, and, and I think whythat's the question we have to
ask.
Why is self care so important?
Why does it matter?
And I think embedded in thatquestion is this idea that self
(17:25):
care is, is kind of wrong.
Maybe it's bad.
Maybe it's not totally okay.
And I think every Enneagram typehas a version of this, whether
it's, you know, a type one,assuming or thinking that self
care is lazy or type two, that'sselfish.
A type three self care isunproductive.
You know, if you're like me as atype six, maybe self care feels
(17:46):
irresponsible.
Maybe It feels like a sign ofweakness.
I think, you know, there's thisidea that this is not
necessarily okay.
And sometimes Christians areactually the worst at this, that
there's some sort of idea that alove of self is inherently
wrong.
And I was reminded of a quotefrom Parker Palmer who writes
(18:07):
about self care and why it's notonly important, but why it's
actually essential and why it'sfundamentally good.
It's a good thing.
It's a beautiful thing.
Here's what Palmer said.
He said, self care is never aselfish act.
It is simply good stewardship ofthe only gift I have, the gift I
(18:27):
was put on earth to offerothers.
Any time we can listen to trueself and give it the care it
requires, we do it not only forourselves, But for the many
others whose lives we touch.
I love that.
Self care is good stewardship ofthe only gift that I have and
(18:48):
the gift I was put on earth togive, which is myself.
Do you think it's the
Jeff (18:51):
language, Adam, that, that Christians turn away from is
using the term self?
Self, sure.
Because when you, when you thinkabout all of the scriptures,
what, because what we aresimply, uh, inviting everyone to
here is engagement with God.
Engagement with others andengagement with yourself.
(19:12):
That's right.
That's all we're suggesting byself care.
That's right.
And what does it mean for you tobe at the place, that spirit
filled self, in order to, youknow, faith working itself out
in love?
Yes, but for some reason westart to once we I mean it would
be so hard if you saw a littlechild Grabbing their blankie and
(19:37):
sucking their thumb.
You wouldn't say Stop being soanxious Take your thumb out of
your mouth and give me theblanket and go and do something.
That's right.
So unkind That's right.
Unkind and mean Yeah, what we'reinviting people to is simply to
say like You must be a littleanxious.
(19:57):
It seems like you want, you'relooking for some comfort right
now.
Yes.
And as adults, we do it in much,maybe more sophisticated ways.
I don't know.
Maybe I, I've not found myselfyet with a blankie in my thumb
in my mouth.
Um, I wouldn't put it past me ifit was particularly hurtful
enough, but I, But I probablywouldn't share it on a podcast
though.
(20:17):
I'll share running across thestreet half nude.
Yes
Adam (20:23):
Yes, I told you it's my goal to bring that story up in
every episode we do together Butyou make a great point I think
okay, let's let's talk aboutthat for just a second Jesus
tells us to deny ourselves andtake up our cross and follow
him.
And there's a way in which theBible that this, this comes back
(20:44):
to the way words are used.
You know, I mean, trunk of atree, trunk of a car, trunk of
an elephant.
There's three different ways.
I mean, there's a lot of ways touse the word trunk,
Jeff (20:52):
right?
So.
I am so fascinated by your,mastery of the word trunk.
Just, I mean, I, I w I wasreally impressed.
You rattled those off.
Adam (21:03):
Yeah.
Well, it, it comes back towords.
Context determines meaning.
And, and so when Jesus iscalling us to deny ourselves and
take up our cross and followhim, he is talking about this
part of us, uh, that the rest ofthe Bible identifies as the
flesh.
And it's this part that'sallergic to vulnerability.
(21:26):
It's allergic to trusting God.
It's too afraid to trust Godbecause that's too vulnerable.
And, and, and the flesh knowslike you've been hurt.
So it doubles down on that andbut there's also there's also
the same Jesus tells us thegreatest commandments the sum
total of the Christian life thegoal of Christian maturation is
(21:47):
Love God love your neighbor asyou love So, Jesus makes this
connection between the love ofself and the love of others and
lots of, you know, Uh,commentators have written about
that.
Like, there's something aboutthe way you treat yourself.
You can't give what you haven'treceived or you can't give what
(22:08):
you don't have.
Oh, I remember
Jeff (22:10):
early on thinking about forgiveness.
I will only forgive to thedegree that I have been silenced
by the magnitude of God's gracein my life.
Yes.
I will only love to the degreethat I have experienced the love
and touch of my father, uh, uh,that overwhelms me with
(22:33):
kindness, um, with care and withlove and compassion.
And so that's right.
You can't give what you don'thave.
Adam (22:40):
That's right.
Yeah, you can't give what youdon't have and, and it is, I'll
say, well, I'll say anotherthing.
Just one more thing about this.
It is, it is, it contradicts thewhole gospel to not love
yourself in healthy ways.
It's impossible, and I say thisall the time to, you know,
(23:02):
people I'm coaching because Ineed to hear it for myself.
I cannot, we cannot receiveGod's love and in the same
breath, shame the fool out ofourselves or hate or despise
ourselves.
Like there's no way to receiveGod's love and then be unkind to
myself.
I need, myself needs Needs loveand needs care and it's this
(23:25):
idea of putting on your ownoxygen mask, right?
Like if you're on a plane godforbid it's going down.
Everybody knows this There's areason why you're instructed to
put on your mask before you helpothers.
And it's this, it's thisprinciple of I can't give what I
don't have.
And coming out of the holidays,there's, they're, they're
naturally very stressful on manylevels, financial, emotional.
(23:48):
I mean, um, and it's a very, itcan be a very activating time.
This is especially true rightnow that we need our self needs.
care.
So I think the big question ishow do we do that?
How do we recover?
Uh, and move into the new yearrefreshed and renewed.
Okay.
So, um, you know, Jeff, you justjump in like these are just some
(24:11):
common general Self carepractices, basic self care
practices that really apply toall Enneagram types.
Some may resonate more with youthan others, but I'll jump into
the first one here.
Um, and it's simply silence andsolitude.
This is an ancient practice.
Um, you know, it's this idea ofgetting alone with yourself and
(24:31):
with God.
All the Enneagram fives arelike, yes, please.
Like, I
Jeff (24:37):
would love to do that.
That's right.
Adam (24:39):
Yeah.
Coming out of the holidays.
Oh yes.
And, um, This is, this is apattern.
You see a rhythm and a habitthat you see all throughout the
life of Jesus.
I think about Luke chapter five.
Uh, this Jesus has had thisreally busy day of being with
people engaging in relationshippouring out Uh, and and then
we're told in chapter 5 verse 16of Luke's gospel And we're told
(25:02):
Jesus often withdrew to lonelyplaces and prayed.
And I like the message versionsays as often as possible Jesus
withdrew to out of the wayplaces for prayer.
So this is like a regular habitin his life where he slips away
from people.
He loves people.
(25:22):
He slips, he also needs a break,right?
But he needs boundaries andneeds to get away from people to
be alone in the quiet withhimself and with his father.
And so, I think coming out ofthe, uh, of the holidays and
possibly even a rhythm that youset for 2022 moving forward is
just a regular practice ofsilence and solitude.
You find a time and a place thatwork for you.
(25:43):
Um, whether that's morning,noon, night after, like whatever
you find a time and place thatfits your schedule and your
rhythm and you start your timewith some some silent prayer,
like just be still.
All right.
And, um, I think it was BlaisePascal that said, uh, all of
man, something like all of man'sproblems can, can be traced back
(26:05):
to his inability to sit in aroom alone with himself.
Jeff (26:10):
So, cause what happens when you do that, I think that,
um, even, uh, not whole man, I'mpretty good.
Uh, Dietrich Bonhoeffer evendiscussed in his book on
fellowship and community, uh,is, uh, You're the people who
overemphasize community or justas much of a threat of people
who over overemphasize Detachingor avoidance of God's people But
(26:37):
the reality is is that youyou've got to be okay with
yourself in order to be okaywith people Yes, it it is It is
provocative and disturbing.
I mean, think of all, if youthink of the equal but opposite
behavior, think about how muchwe give ourselves to whenever
first thing you do in themorning is check facebook, check
(26:59):
tiktok, instagram, uh, twitter,whatever the new, whatever news
channel you have.
Like you're literally a tuning.
Your heart to something everyday and that is a way of you
avoiding what's actuallyhappening in your interior world
Yes, but that's the very placethat the lord intends to meet us
(27:23):
Uh in these solitary placeswhere we can quiet down and
quiet the thoughts in our headthe beat of our heart The pace
of our breath so that we cansimply be still I mean, I think
of moses You They're at the RedSea, you know, there's this
passage earlier on it said Godcould have taken them another
way, but they weren't going totrust him.
(27:44):
And so he took them this way.
They're landlocked.
Now they're surrounded by waterand armies coming after them.
And God says, be still the Lordfights for you.
Oh man.
And it's scary.
It's difficult, but even justtake the time to be quiet for
increasing amounts of time.
(28:05):
Start with five minutes.
See if you can get to 15.
Just so that you can recognizewhat it is that you're doing,
trying to resolve your past.
Adam (28:15):
Yeah, that's so good.
You mentioned Bonhoeffer.
I think he, in that same, inthat same resource, I think
that's where he said, the curefor loneliness is both community
and solitude.
Then that, like that's the curefor loneliness.
It's not, no, it's not onlycommunity, but also solitude.
Solitude is different fromisolation, right?
Solitude is I'm intentionallygetting alone with myself.
(28:37):
Yeah.
And with God and so yeah, startwith some silence,
Jeff (28:43):
you know, Adam, you and I both have experience with one
particular community of peoplethat one of their phrases that
they love to use is I'm lonelywith you.
Yes, but it's such an accuratecomment.
I mean, but think about thatwhenever.
You're with your family.
Let's say you're with a spousewith a sibling or whatever and
they are so attuned to thedynamics that happening in the
(29:06):
family that it's hard for theirhearts and minds to be attuned
with you.
And we experience thatloneliness with one another
versus having a groundedrelationship, like this is
family, that's their stuff, thatI am who I am.
This is my spouse and I canattune to them.
And so it's an apt word.
You're right.
(29:26):
That to be to as a remedy forloneliness, to be able to be
alone is a tremendous gift.
Adam (29:36):
And don't you know, Jesus often felt that way with crowds
and crowds and crowds of people,but yet he was so misunderstood.
They, they struggled to connectwith his heart and who he really
was.
And.
He needed that even as, as they,you know, it's translated there,
uh, in Luke 5 16, he needed towithdraw to lonely places and to
be alone with the father andwith himself.
(29:58):
And so when you do this, youwant to start with silence.
You want to focus on yourbreathing.
I find it helpful because Ieasily get distracted, uh, to,
to, to add prayers, attach aprayer to my breathing rhythms.
You know, if I start to getdistracted, just inhale and pray
like, God, help me be here withyou.
Uh, exhale and pray, God, wouldyou be here with me?
(30:19):
Uh, something like that.
Something simple.
And I, I just, you know, payattention to your thoughts and
feelings and compulsions thatsurface.
Those are all places where Godwants to meet you with grace.
And, and after a brief period ofsilence, you know, you might
meditate on a passage ofScripture.
You might move into opening yourheart and mind to God and
sharing.
What's on your heart and mind,whether that's complaints,
(30:41):
requests, gratitude.
I mean, and yes, all of that,all of the above.
So I think that's huge.
That's a huge self carepractice, uh, of silence and
solitude.
Um, next I would just saypractice gratitude.
You know, create, create agratitude ritual that you carry
with you.
Uh, maybe make these, by theway, these are all great, like
(31:03):
resolutions moving into the newyear.
Um, draw your attention to thethings for which you're grateful
and give thanks to God for thosethings.
Um, You know, uh, one way to dothis, I've, I've practiced this,
I've been in seasons ofpracticing this before is you
write down 24 things that you'rethankful for in the last 24
hours.
(31:24):
Um, I think that, I think somepeople call this the prayer of
examine, right?
You reflect back over your last24 hours or over the last week.
And you just start to noticelike, where were the blessings?
You know, you talk aboutcounting your blessings and
that's true.
You just thank God for thebreath in your lungs and the
clothes on your back.
And none of it's reframing.
You're not diminishing the pain.
(31:46):
You're simply practicing.
That's
Jeff (31:48):
interesting.
You say that, Adam, because thatwas one of the things that, what
we're not promoting here is.
To look at your family of originand maybe individuals and to
name ways that you're gratefulfor them So that you'll somehow
think less or that's right mythe answer that that's not what
that's not what this exercise isIt's recognizing that your
(32:08):
Heavenly Father has been withyou And that he, he is with you
even now in this moment.
Um, it, it's almost like Davidpraying.
Why so downcast?
Oh, my soul, uh, rejoice.
Like there's a, a way that he'ssaying like there is pain, there
is hopelessness, but also torecognize the providence that
(32:29):
where God has been present,where I've not always recognized
it.
Adam (32:33):
Yeah.
This is not, that's such a greatword.
And I, I, I felt compelled tosay that because I, I can.
I don't want to encouragereframing and I don't want to
encourage denying, you know, Iknow we're throwing around some
quotes here, but I love TremperLongman, you know, as an old
Testament guy.
And he says that to deny yourfeelings is to turn your back on
(32:55):
reality and reality is where Godis.
So the only way to live inreality and meet God is to
acknowledge the pain of And yet,you know, give thanks to the
Lord for he is good, hissteadfast love endures forever.
You know, give thanks to theLord in all circumstances.
So there's an appropriate way toacknowledge like, like you said,
God is with me in this and hehas, he has, he has gifted me in
(33:20):
so many ways tangibly.
He has expressed his love.
Um, not to mention at the cross,like the most ultimate way he's
declared his love over me.
So there's, there's thispractice of gratitude that
ministers to anxiety.
It ministers to these ghosts.
Um, and it's just an importantpractice for healing and for
recovery.
Um, exercise or go for a walk.
(33:42):
You know, um, I have a mentorthat used to say to me
regularly, uh, Adam, you don'thave a body.
You are a body, you know, you'rean embodied soul.
So this means that, that one ofthe ways that we recover and we
take care of ourselves is we, weengage our bodies.
So, you know, go on an extralong run.
(34:05):
Uh, if that's your thing, get,get back in the gym.
If that's your thing.
I know a lot of times, you know,we get out of those gym rhythms
during the holiday season.
So, um, get a deep tissuemassage.
If that's your thing, you know,go on some long walks, You've
got to do something to kind ofengage your body.
Jeff, we talk about this a lot.
(34:26):
You know, it's also true thatour bodies just hold stress and
pain and hold memories.
You know, um, Bessel van derKolk's done really important
work on that.
I mean, he's done the seminalwork on that.
And in his book, The Body Keepsthe Score, you can read all
about that.
But, um, there's just helpfulpractices to release stress.
(34:46):
stress and pain, emotional painfrom your body and rejuvenate.
Um, so exercise, go for a walk,do something to engage your
body.
Anything you want to add tothat, Jeff?
Jeff (34:59):
No, I, I, I think you're, you're dead on here.
You know, the only thing that Iwould also add, I do remember I
was at a marriage retreat withDan Allender and his wife once,
and Beth was there and I wasasking him, Particularly as a
pastor, I recognize that noteverybody has resources to go
and pay hundreds of dollars fora therapist after every family
(35:21):
gathering.
And so I just ask him personallyin my own life.
So I go to recovery meetings andI do my times of silence and
solitude.
I call them team meetings.
And, um, we, uh, I asked him,well, what do you recommend?
For someone to do and he saidone go on long slow walks And he
(35:45):
said if you rev up the body,you're revving up everything
inside He said slow it down asslow as you can go and take a
while linger And the other onewas, um, aromatherapy and I
wasn't, I thought that wasgreat.
All of our, uh, essential oilfolks are like, yeah, oh yes.
(36:06):
But I, that stuff matters.
I mean, think about it this way,just putting in over the
holidays.
Um, so in my wife's family, theFitzy family, they, one of their
big things is stuffing.
It's a sage.
Stuffing.
Bread stuffing.
Sounds delicious.
I know it's Thanksgiving when Ismell that stuffing being made.
(36:31):
All the memories come back.
All the previous Thanksgivingsall come back because of it.
Even whenever I smell evergreentrees now, Christmas is around.
We know this to be true.
Well, guess what?
That, that also means that our,our body is keeping memories
like that with other smells aswell.
(36:53):
That's right.
And so, you have to recognizeyour body.
Um, even, even to think of itthis way, even going back home
is an experience that you arecarrying in your body.
When you drive into yourhometown, when you have, when
you see things, it's almost likethe backdrop to a movie, like
(37:15):
those are the backdrops to yourmemories.
And so you can expect thatyou're going to be carrying that
in your body.
Adam (37:23):
That's so good.
So, so true.
Yeah.
So, um, so go for a walk, get,you know, do something to, to
take care of yourself in thatway.
Physically.
Um, next grab, grab a relationaltouch point with a friend.
Um, it's been said the greatestgift of life is friendship.
And there's a lot of truth tothat.
I mean, we, we are made forfriendship.
(37:46):
And, uh, so coming out of this,like maybe you just need to grab
some time with a friend, grablunch, grab coffee.
a phone call, a zoom call.
Um, and just, just hang out.
I mean, share your family oforigin experience, talk about
what it was like or not just,just enjoy some friendship.
It gives you a chance to, to, tofeel seen, to feel understood,
(38:10):
maybe even to unburden somestuff, let a friend be a friend
and, and, and help, you know,take some of those burdens off
of you.
It's just, uh, you know, crucialto recovery.
So, uh, grab some kind ofrelational touch point with a
friend
Jeff (38:23):
on touching base with a friend.
I mean, I, I, I can't rememberthe physician and article.
It came out of Memphis, I thinkis how, where I was introduced
to it, but it was talking aboutthat the remedy to, Uh,
addiction is not sobriety, butit's connection.
And that, that is, I know thatthis is, it sounds
(38:48):
counterintuitive, but when youhave a friend, when you can be
the friend who bears witness toanother person's pain, just to
bear witness, not advice, givingor caretaking, but just simply
saying to them, I see your pain.
I see it's consequences in yourlife today.
And I'm so sorry.
(39:09):
Is healing to people like youhave an opportunity in your
coffee shop conversations to bea healing influence in the lives
of others just simply bylistening to and attuning to
people whenever they're sharingthese stories with you it yeah
try look for that friend thatsafe friend that you can connect
(39:31):
with and share what's reallygoing on in your heart and you
will find healing.
Adam (39:35):
Absolutely.
Um, create a reset ritual withyour own family is, is a, is a
key practice for self care.
You know, if you're married, ifyou have kids do, do something
to regroup with your crew.
Jeff, what is it you and Bethcall your family?
You guys call it, you guys havea name for it, right?
Jeff (39:56):
That's funny.
I didn't know you knew that.
That's I do.
I do know that.
Okay.
So, um, Gosh, I always felt likeI have to explain this, but it
was a nickname that was given tome.
So my, my last name is McCord,but I was adopted.
And in, when I was around 30, Ifound my biological mother, um,
(40:20):
who was multiple generationMexican, even before it was
Dallas.
And so I am this Latin Scottishlooking guy.
And so my nickname for my sevenpart is in ministry guys started
calling me El McCordo.
Uh, and so the name of ourfamily is the El McCordo squad.
Adam (40:47):
Yes.
Okay.
And what I love about that is itcommunicates that you and Beth
and your children have your ownnuclear family unit.
You, you, you, you are not, youare not your family of origin.
You have your own, you haveyour, you have your own squad,
so to speak.
So, um, do something with yoursquad that hits the reset
(41:12):
button, um, that buildsrelationship.
And that reminds you who you areas a family, what you value as a
family.
It could be a movie night.
Jeff (41:22):
I love this one.
I just think this is if there'sone way of Differentiating
between I and we you know,what's we as my family of origin
and who am I is?
To have get back into a ritualthat says this is my new we
that's for for our familyParticularly over christmas
(41:44):
since the extended period oftime each member gets to choose
one thing to do over that breakYou That's it and it could be we
go to top golf We go to a funnew restaurant in nashville Uh,
I just bought a new game that Isaw on tiktok the other day Um,
it's called cluster k l u s t er uh cluster Um, try not to fill
(42:07):
that in with other words, butjust stay with cluster Um, but
it's these little magnets.
It's not competitive.
But all you're doing is justputting putting these magnetized
rocks in a circle and trying nottrying to keep them from, uh,
gathering together super fun.
And it'll be a nice little gamenight for our family.
(42:28):
We'll, we'll pour some fundrinks and then just have fun
together.
But these little things help meto stay engaged with what's
happening in the present, notliving out the pain of my past.
Adam (42:42):
That's right.
It's a way to, it's a way toeven, again, to soothe these
ghosts, to remind them we arenot here, they're anymore.
We are here now.
And we have a chance to createnew rhythms and even break some
generational, you know, cursesand move forward, uh, not in
(43:02):
perfection, but in a new waywith, with this crew, with this
squad.
So those are great resetrituals, Jeff, that you
mentioned.
And for you who are listening,it could be.
go family movie night, gamenight, cook a meal together, go
out for dinner.
Like Jeff's talking about.
I mean, let the kids pick athing like what, I mean, just do
something with your family, yourcrew to kind of hit that reset
(43:26):
button.
Jeff (43:28):
So for you and Carrie, what, what is something that you
do for your family that'sunique, that's different from
your, other
Adam (43:35):
families.
Yeah, that's a that's a greatquestion.
So we do, uh, we will alwaystake the last couple nights of
Christmas break after we'refinished with all the Christmas
parties.
Uh, we've we've done, you know,we've opened all the presents.
We've done all the rounds withall the family and friends and
(43:57):
all of that.
We take the last two or threedays of Christmas of Christmas
break.
And it's really similar to whatyou're saying, Jeff.
We left each each of our girls.
We have three daughters picksomething that they want to do
during the day.
I'm typically off work duringthat time.
And so each one of them gets aspecial date.
And then we just do late nightmovie nights and game nights.
We have a big dining room tableand are one of our favorite
(44:20):
things to do is, um, my oldestdaughter and my wife will be on
one into that table withpuzzles.
And they'll be, they'll beputting puzzles, they'll be
working on puzzles togetherwhile the other girls and I will
be down at the other end of thetable, uh, the other two and
myself and we'll be coloring andit's just a thing.
And, you know, like, I'm arecord, you know, you know,
(44:41):
Jeff, I'm a, I'm a vinyl recordguy.
So we've got like music playingthe whole time and we just.
We just create these, thesemoments together like that.
And it's just, it's just a wayto minister to everyone to say,
look, I know the last few dayshave been good, but also hard
and stressful and, and, and alittle, little, you know,
anxious.
(45:01):
And, but this is, this is ushitting a reset button,
regrouping.
Spending quality time, makingour own memories, building, you
know, having these relationaltouch points with each other.
Um, and, uh, and then of coursethe last night before school
starts back, we like, shut it,we get back in the militant
mode.
You guys are going to bed at 6PM.
(45:22):
Uh, what's that Christmas songwhere they have that line where
it's like, mom and dad canhardly wait for school to start
again.
Like that's, that's by thatpoint.
By that point, Jeff, Carrie andI are not only wounded from our
family of origin story, butwe're wounded from our own
children.
Uh, and we need them to go backto public school.
(45:45):
Um, yeah.
Well, even
Jeff (45:47):
with young adult kids, to be quite honest with you, like
we're, we're starting to haveour own rhythm of life and it's
more like, you know what, Nateand Libby, it's a time for you
to go back to school and you'relike, you know what, I'm tired
of being around mom and dad.
I want to be around my friendsand get back into my own
routines.
I will say this too about thelittle game that I was telling
(46:08):
you, that cluster game I wastelling you about.
We as a family have never beenable to play games together.
We can't do any games and we'vetried multiple times over the
years and it never works And soI just want to tell everyone
that even like we're stilltrying we're still creating
(46:28):
these opportunities To connectwith one another We haven't
solved anything.
Um, but I happen to be look orsurfing around on tick tock one
day and found this whole gamingside of tick tock and found one
that I thought, okay, that's notgonna be as competitive.
So maybe we won't argue throughthis one.
So it's hopeful.
(46:50):
I'll have to, I'll let you guysknow in the new year whether or
not we made it or not.
Adam (46:54):
So good.
Well, just a couple more ofthese here.
I think we've already kind ofmentioned this, but one helpful
practice of self care.
This one has to do with a littlemore on the on the abstaining
side of the scale, but you wantto kind of limit.
some of those escapist orindulgent behaviors.
Um, you know, when you'reactivated, sometimes we just, we
(47:18):
just want to escape or indulge,you know, and, uh, reach for the
fix.
You know, when I, when I'manxious, when I get activated, I
want to reach for the fix.
And sometimes the fix might be,you know, my five part kicking
in of withdrawal and shuttingdown.
Sometimes it's my seven part,seven wing kicking in and it's
(47:38):
like, let's indulge, let's gobig, let's consume, let's numb,
you know?
So, um, and I think there'sappropriate ways to, to withdraw
and to like, indulge and eat,drink and be merry, certainly.
But you have to have thediscernment to know is this, is
this self care?
Or is this escaping something?
Is this numbing something?
(47:59):
So you think about, yeah.
Were you going to add somethingthere, Jeff?
Jeff (48:02):
No, no, no, no.
Yeah.
Just agreeing to the reality ofit.
Is it, um, you know, there,there are times to give one
another the space to kind of,uh, maybe go on a walk, but let
that time be intentionalwhenever you are getting a time
alone.
Um, but yeah, there aredefinitely, Breeze.
I mean, there's, we'redisassociating when these things
(48:24):
happen and we're trying to justcalm everything down around us.
Uh, so we want to limit thoseopportunities or to use alone
time for intentional reasons,not just to disassociate and not
feel.
Adam (48:38):
That's right.
That's right.
So whether it's screens, food,drink, you know, excessive
cleaning, working, shopping,like instead of reaching for
escape, reach for presence, youknow, reach for.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna stayengaged.
Um, like again, it's totallyappropriate to, with, to, to
withdraw to those lonely placesor, uh, man, watch, do, do a
(49:01):
little Netflix binge.
Like I'll, I'll, I love that.
Right.
Have some popcorn and watch afew of your favorite episodes of
some.
There's that's great.
That's great.
It's a beautiful, restful, uh,self care.
But, uh, the other people aroundyou will probably can, like, if
you're, if you're married or youhave close friends, can probably
help you discern whether or notthis is, you're doing this in a
(49:22):
healthy way or not.
Um, I think about Kyle, our, ourfriend Kyle Turner.
You know, to give a little shoutout to him, when he said as a
type nine, um, he had said that,you know, we were, he, we were
talking with him, uh.
At ACC about how do you know ifwhen you're playing games on
your phone, how do you know ifit's disassociation and like,
(49:43):
um, escaping numbing, uh, or ifit's just like self care.
I'm just doing this because Ienjoy it and it's, it's restful.
And he said, um, if my wife islonely with me.
It probably means it's, it's notlike I'm doing, I'm, I'm doing
this too much.
It's probably escape, escapisttype stuff.
(50:03):
So check in with, check in withthe people that you do life with
and they can help you with somefeedback on that.
So last one, a really simple,just do something for you.
You know, this could besomething that we've already
mentioned.
This could be nurturing yourhobby.
It could be developing a newhobby that you've like, you want
to carry with you into the newyear, cooking, reading, making
(50:26):
music, writing.
I wrote a song recently.
I haven't written a song in along time.
I used to write songs all thetime.
And my, my brother in law turned40 and I wrote a fun song,
making fun of him.
And, uh, and it was, it was so,it was such a good, uh, self
care thing for my wife saidyou've got to do more of that.
(50:47):
Um, you know, woodworking birdwatching, like, you know, my
wife likes to color, like she'llbuy these, these like complex
adult coloring books and like,um, so give yourself a snow day,
like just a free day to, to dosomething just for you and feel
no guilt or shame about it.
(51:07):
God, God is that generous thathe would love to just bless you
with, with something like that.
So those are some tips and somethings that I'm, I'm trying to
embody and practice myself,Jeff, in terms of just
recovering and taking care ofmyself.
Jeff (51:22):
Man, what a fantastic list.
I really super appreciate youputting those thoughts together.
And yeah, some of them sadly arevery obvious to us.
We know that they would behelpful, but we've never had
the, uh, We've given ourselvespermission, uh, to do them.
Now you'll notice none of thisincluded actually seeing a
mental health professional.
(51:43):
These are things that you cansimply do yourself to tend to
your soul.
We're not promising ultimatehealing here and, uh, the chains
of these ghosts of the past are,are no longer present.
That's not what we're promisinghere, but we are promising
connection, connection with God,connection with others, and
connection with your own soul.
Um, one thing I'd like to endwith.
(52:05):
Uh, is a passage that has meanta ton to me as I have embarked
upon this journey of allowingChrist to touch my family of
origin in the story that, um,that we had together.
And it's from Isaiah 61 and itsays this, it says, the spirit
of the Lord God is upon me togive them a beautiful headdress
(52:28):
instead of ashes, the oil ofgladness instead of mourning.
The garment of praise instead ofa faint spirit that they may be
called oaks of righteousness.
They shall, they shall build upancient ruins.
They shall raise up the formerdevastations.
They shall repair the ruincities, the devastation of many
(52:52):
generations.
So here's the good news that Godwill not never leave you nor
forsake you, and that heintends.
To bring healing for your life,no matter where you're at.
I, I, one song that I love, um,I'm forgetting his name right
now who wrote it, but it was theidea that if you're lost, you
(53:15):
can always be found.
And no matter where, whereyou're at or what you've
experienced, there is hope thatthe Lord will help you to heal.
Well, guys, we hope you'veenjoyed, uh, the podcast for
2021 and particularly thisepisode, so hopeful that it
would be, uh, helpful to you.
We're excited about the newcontent and, uh, even some, uh,
(53:37):
new changes to the podcast in2022.
We'll be taking a short break atthe beginning of the year to
work on some fun, new additionsto the podcast and prepare for
all of that, but we're lookingforward to all that's ahead in
2022.
If you can keep this really,really quiet, we've not
announced it anywhere, but we'rereleasing our next book next
(53:58):
year.
Adam (53:59):
What was that, Jeff?
I didn't hear.
I didn't quite hear that.
Jeff (54:03):
Oh man, if you missed it, bro, I'm sorry if you missed it.
Adam (54:06):
You guys hit that, uh, the 15 second back button a couple
times, uh, and, uh, just turnthe volume up real loud and
listen very closely and you'llhear.
Jeff (54:17):
That's, that's the joys of being a last episode of the
year.
Listener, you get big surprises.
Thanks for joining us.
Don't forget to check out theshow notes as well and all the
resources mentioned in theepisode and the episodes that we
previously did with our guests.
And always remember this, theEnneagram reveals our need for
Jesus, not our need to workharder.
(54:38):
It's the Gospel that transformsus
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