Pat Forde on raising an Olympian, the sacrifice of swimmers and what's next in college football

In this episode Greg is joined by sports journalist Pat Forde. The pair discuss the transfer portal (10:00) and the college football playoff expansion (13:16), lifestyles of swim athletes (24:23) and being present for his daughter’s Olympic Silver Medal in Tokyo (39:00).

Greg also answers listener questions (52:51).

Rate, review, subscribe and submit your questions on social @YouthInc.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
it's a school of 1400 guys, and it's a meet with a hundred voice

(00:03):
swimmers and it's just like the time, you know, What's up
everybody? Welcome back to another episode
here on youth ink presented by Audio Rama and our friends at
body armor, not a whole lot to report this past weekend.

(00:24):
Probably for the last time in a long time, we had no Youth
Sports, thanks to Hurricane Ian hurricane Ian you know
devastated Florida. There the western coast of
Florida that was pretty scary tosee unfold.
So obviously that was tough to watch and then it Made its way
up to North and South Carolina. It hit Charleston harder than

(00:47):
it, ended up hitting Charlotte. So we skate, we escaped mostly
just with some wind and nothing really significant, but in
preparation for it, all of the kids sports games football, was
canceled. Baseball, was canceled.
So I was in Dallas, call in the Cowboys, Washington game, and
the kids had no Youth Sports. So that was, they ran out of

(01:09):
things to do after, like, 15 minutes.
So they really struggle, I don'thave a lot to do, so we got to
work on that. But this weekend we have a huge
weekend first. Actually have a trifecta, all
three kids have something fun. So my oldest son, his football,
team has first round in the playoffs.
So we start first round of the playoffs for football and then

(01:29):
he plays in a big like super nit.
Perfect game tournament here in Charlotte.
My youngest son his teams playing in a perfect game and it
same tournament different age group, and my daughter has a
soccer game and it's actually mytwins.
Birthday and for her birthday gift.
My daughter is flying out with me on Saturday to La, I'm
calling the Rams Cowboys game onFox and my daughter is going to

(01:52):
come have a little daddy-daughter weekend and she's
been talking about it all day for the last two weeks.
So we have a fun but busy, both personally and sports weekend.
So we will update you guys on how all that goes next week.
Today we have a really cool guest.
Another college football, writersomeone who can kind of keep us
up to speed. Don the changing landscape of

(02:14):
college football, not only this year, but going over, not only
this year, but going forward over time.
Today's guest is Pat 40. Pat is a longtime Sports
journalist. I'm sure you guys have read and
seen a lot of his work National columnist for Sports
Illustrated. But a really cool reason why we
had Pat is he is the father of three Collegiate, swimmers, two

(02:35):
sons and his daughter. Brooke was a silver medalist at
the Tokyo Olympics in 2021, and Pat talks about How special that
was for him to not only cover that professionally but also be
able to watch it as a father. So it really cool story has a
really good Insight in to. Not only, you know, current
events of college sports and specifically college football.

(02:56):
But also obviously just as a dadand his experience raising
three, highly acclaimed athletesin his own household.
So it was a great conversation. Thanks to Pat for joining us.
Thank you. As always to body armor.
Body armor. Not only fuels this show but
they fuel all my sports teams. There's a lot of choices for
Sidelines. Sports drinks.
My favorite is orange mango, strawberry.

(03:18):
Banana is my kids favorite. You guys know that?
We say it every week but it's the truth body armor is made
with coconut water B vitamins. No artificial sweeteners and for
more information you guys can goto drink body armor.com.
So now please enjoy this conversation with Pat 40.

(03:39):
Pat first and foremost, just thank you so much for joining us
here today on, you think? Hey Greg, Greg to be on with you
big fan of you as a player, a broadcaster.
And I really like the idea for your podcast, so happy to chop
it up with you. Well, I appreciate it.
And and before we jump into moreof the personal stuff, which to
me is the fun stuff, you know? Just we were talking with, with

(04:01):
Tasha are my producer, whose fathers the head coach at
Syracuse, you know, just about their start and the college to,
what's been? It's been a wild start to the
college football season. I know you cover it as closely
as anybody Upsets to, you know, power five schools losing to
lower, its just been a, it's been a wild scene.
We've already seen Nebraska, fire, Scott, Frost, just give

(04:23):
me, give me an early kind of assessment of where things lie
here in early on with college football.
Tumultuous. That's for sure.
I mean, it has been, as you saidwild unpredictable shocking,
upsets crazy ends two games, including Syracuse, beating
Purdue with the help of seven penalties on the Boilermakers in

(04:45):
the last minute. But you know, that's that's
college football and that's the beauty of it.
And we saw in the NFL how unpredictable games can be in
teams that you think have games one and lose them.
But in college that there's justa bigger scope, right?
There's more teams More games, the players are younger, they're
more prone to error. You know, the coaches may be

(05:06):
more prone to are a little bit too and so you just get stuff
that happens that just kind of blows your mind all day from
from noon till 2:00 in the morning on a given Saturday.
You never know what you're goingto sing.
Yeah. And I think that the story early
has been, you know, early in theseason.
With college football, everyone's accustomed to aside
from a couple big time matchups.Especially you know, that week,

(05:28):
zero that opening. End over Labor Day, where you
see really cool matchups, reallybig time programs, Notre, Dame,
plan, Ohio State, so on and so forth.
Early in the year, you see a lotof games which we used to refer
to as like blood money, right? You got these big programs
paying millions of dollars over 1.5 million to lower programs,
FCS level schools, or group of five schools.

(05:51):
That now have to go on the road and we saw appstate, go and beat
you know Texas A&M in Texas A&M rate.
Those teams are now able to compete the days of just Winning
every one of those games 62 nothing, giving your million
dollar check and getting a non-conference win on your
schedule, early. We're seeing more and more of
those games going. The other way.

(06:11):
Notre Dame. Losing the Braska.
Do you think we're going to continue to see this?
Just because it's the economic engine of what keeps some of
these smaller school programs alive.
But what is the incentive for these larger schools to continue
to not only pay money but risk losing That's a good question
and I think what it boils down to is they still are more likely

(06:35):
to win than lose and so if it's a choice between scheduling,
another power 5 team and having a greater chance of losing or
scheduling a you know, Mid-American Conference school
or somebody from Conference USA and winning, they're going to
continue to do that now. Be careful who you schedule, if
you schedule an app state or a marshal programs that have been

(06:56):
very good for a long, Men under under multiple coaches, you
could get what you got at Notre Dame Stadium or in Kyle Field.
The one thing that there has been some question about whether
or not school should still schedule FCS opponents and the
push. Their the pushback has been.

(07:17):
If we don't schedule them those FCS opponents make no money.
You know, that's a million dollars they need and that's why
they schedule the game to come in and basically get trampled.
So there's kind of a push and pull, there's a little bit of a
tension there. How is the best way to schedule?
The one thing you will always see is the power five teams are
scheduling home games now. That's one reason they don't

(07:38):
want to play another Power fighting because then you got to
go play them at their place and everybody wants seven or even
eight home games if you can get it.
Yeah. So when you say there's a push
and a pull, is the push and the pull from conferences, is the
push in the pole from the NCAA in general, right?
So for example, whose if in the future, if people say we're not,
To play App State. We're just not going to do it.

(08:00):
We're not going. It's not worth it for us to not
only pay money, but to risk losing to a school that's now
beaten Tennessee. They should have beat North
Carolina in the past, they've beaten South Carolina, and then,
of course, this year, they beat Texas A&M.
Who's pressuring these power five schools to say?
No, no. We need you to take some of
these FCS schools. We need you to take some of

(08:20):
these, you know, group of five conference schools because
without it, they cease to exist.Like why is that Texas A&M's
responsibility? Why is that Notre Dame's
responsibility? And if it is at who's at whose
pressure like at whose discretion, Yeah, I mean that's
fair question. I, you know, I think the
American football coaches association, certainly like to
see those games being played. They don't have a ton of power

(08:44):
but they at least can Lobby on behalf of those schools and
again, you got to play somebody.The question is yes to.
If you're going to go schedule aSunbelt school, you want to try
to get somebody from the lower end of it and not AB state or
not Marshall, but you can't always get not.
Everybody can schedule, you know, the worst part.

(09:05):
Programs in the country. So you have to take your chances
every once in a while. But they're, you know they're if
you talk to coaches around the sporting, he's talked to
athletic directors to it's like there is I think a general
feeling that we do need to try to help take care of those
folks. A little bit at least buy from a
monetary standpoint. Yeah, and my next question, I'd

(09:27):
be curious your point. We've talked a lot about we've
talked a lot about on here with the new ni L rules and the
transfer portal and just the ability for talent now, too.
Dispersed across all levels, right?
It's not so concentrated maybe necessarily at the top schools
because they're not controlling these kids.
Now for four years, like they were in the past, if after a
year or two at a power, five school, you're not playing,

(09:48):
there is the ability to maybe step down a level or go to
another team. That's maybe not at the quite
at. That's where there's the level
of the school year coming from. And now this talent doesn't get
concentrated in one spot. So closely is that a reason?
Is it a coincidence that we're starting to see some of these
group of five schools compete? You know, last year, Cincinnati
like some of these schools were not traditionally used to seeing

(10:10):
at the top of the power structure of college football.
Is it connected to this changinglandscape of where it's just
easier for talented players to change, schools to go somewhere
where they can play. Yeah.
Yeah, it is. I mean if you look at I mean one
of Cincinnati's better players last year's running back with
transferred from Alabama. The immediate eligibility
transfer has been a significant Game Changer.

(10:34):
The quarterback for ab state is on his third School, chase
price. You know, he started.
He was at Clemson, then he went to Duke and now he said it
appstate, the quarterback for Marshall is on his third school.
He was at a power five school before at Texas Tech.
Now he's their players one playing time players went
opportunity. More freedom of movement.
And I do think to your point about ni L, you know, there are

(10:57):
places that outside of Alabama, Alabama, can't get every player
and Georgia can't get ever play.Ohio stinky, can't get every
player and there's fans that care in Boise and in Huntington,
West Virginia and Boone North Carolina, they're like, hey,
Will woman give you a commercialfor the hot for the hamburger

(11:18):
franchise here? Yeah, you know, we will, we will
have you? Let you have a Signing an
autograph signing at the car dealership so you can make some
money at those places and I do think that has a chance to at
least level it out a little bit players.
Can go a lot of places and be able to a play and be make a
little money. Yeah, yeah.
I'll tell you. It's definitely for I don't I

(11:39):
didn't I was curious your answerbecause I don't think it's at
all disconnected. I think it's directly connected
to why we're seeing such made, you know, so many teams that
were just unaccustomed to seeingbe able to, you know, years
back. AB State beat Michigan.
You know what seems like a hundred years ago, but so it has
happened. It just seems like it's
happening more frequently and when it does happen, people

(12:00):
aren't quite as concerned as youknow, surprised.
And as you mentioned, almost allthe guys driving, all these
upsets this year, started out atPower five schools that, you
know, it's just I think it's an interesting landscape.
The last thing I'll ask you before we jump in to your family
and your Youth Sports Experiencewith your three children you
know the overarching you know kind of story line going on now

(12:21):
as we We sit here with the earlypart of this college football
season underway is this whole idea of whether or not they're
going to expand the college football playoff and there.
Right before the season. Kicked off back in August
report, came out that they're seriously considering within the
next couple years, expanding theplayoff from its current, you
know, from its current format. And I'm one to suggest that in

(12:41):
college football. There is a very significant
difference between the top six to eight teams and then the rest
that next Core Group, rightly, even when Look every week at the
top 25 to be the 17th the eighteenth nineteen best team in
the country. They're not gonna win the
national championship, they're just not right.
It's the same Usual Suspects every year.

(13:02):
So I guess my concern over and I'd be curious yours.
My concern over expanding the college football, playoff would
be for that 1, c 2, C 4, Georgiafor Alabama weave, those teams
in when it was for teens kill, whoever they play is the 4 seed,
all of a sudden. Now they play an AC, they play a
16 seed at the more it expands Are we going to just see blow

(13:23):
out after blow out now, in the first couple rounds, as we
expand this college football playoff?
Well, it's a legitimate concern,but I think here, the benefits
from it. First of all, you know, if we
give Avery, it's going to be a 12 team structure.
There's going to be a by for thefur for the top four seats.
So we don't have to see, you know, Georgia Alabama, Ohio

(13:45):
State playing see an 11 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 seats.
So you're going to have five 12 point each other and I think
those generally speaking are going to be pretty competitive
games. And they're going to be
compelling, they're going to be on campuses.
Are they going to be the biggestgames that have ever happened in
some of these college towns? If you look like last year old

(14:07):
Miss would have hosted a playoffgame, you kidding.
That would have been the biggestgame home game Ole Miss has ever
had. Oklahoma State could have, I
think hosted one last year if not them Baylor and Waco.
So that would be I just Of the campus flavor of that.
And I do think those early gameswill be compelling and then

(14:28):
yeah. Okay.
We're going to get to a point where number one Georgia is
playing. You know, maybe the number 5
team and it's not going to be closed.
And that's, that's the nature ofthe Beast already.
I don't think we necessarily lose anything there.
We're just getting more games that look like the games that
we've had. But I just think a bigger
playoff pulls in more teams, more fan base is more Head and

(14:52):
keeps more fans engaged in the playoff Chase as you go through
November as it is now with a 14 race, most times you getting
over, there's like six, maybe seven schools that have a
chance. Now you're going to have 20 and
it's just going to be all about getting in and then selection
Sunday, the big excitement of seeing, oh, we're in and where
we see today? Who are we?

(15:13):
Playing? And where are we going?
That'll have some of the flavor of the basketball tournament.
That's been so popular. We're just getting in, will make
a season for a lot of people Yeah, and I agree with you.
I think the notion of the games being on campus is great.
I think what makes college football so special and makes it
significantly different than a lot of markets in the NFL is
that Hometown vibrate Athens. Georgia, just the environment in

(15:36):
Columbus, Ohio. It it's just a very different
world. I think sometimes those games
being played on a neutral site become very similar to the Super
Bowl right? Where it's it's executive its
corporate, it's sponsored driven, it's not the true fans.
It's not the students, it's not the kids who kinda Ride the
audience all year long when they're playing their home
games. They're not necessarily
attending those big college for playoff games.

(15:57):
So from that regard, I get it. But but I guess the part I keep
coming back to his and you said it this year with only, you
know, in the past couple of years, with only four teams
making the playoffs, there was really only two or three that
had a chance to win it, six thathad a legitimate argument for
being in it. Now, I'm going to try to fill
those two that can win. It may be three on a good year,

(16:20):
you're going to have Alabama, you can have George and you're
going to have somebody else right past years.
It was Clemson, sometimes it's Ohio State, whoever that third
team that legitimately when the season starts can win it, but
only six teams can compete in it, but now, I got 12 spots.
I don't know. Like, those old Miss does Ole
Miss last year, if they were hosting as an 11th, if they were
in, as in a whatever seed, they hosted a game, great

(16:42):
environment. Did they have any chance of
winning the national championship?
Probably not. Yeah, sorry that's that's that's
my only we're just at, you know,my concern is that we dress
adding games for the sake of adding games.
Now, the counter-argument you brought up basketball is, yeah,
just Florida Gulf Coast. Did they have a chance years
back when they made that great run?
So, I understand football and basketball or a little different

(17:03):
dynamic as far as adding extra games.
But the point I'm with you, listen, well, I watch it.
Absolutely. Yeah, of course.
But here's, that's a good question for you.
As a player and thinking back toyour 18 to 22 year old self.
If you're playing 15 16 17 gamesis that too much thinking it's a
lot. I think it's a line cause I

(17:24):
think they're going to have to figure out a way I think.
But again it connects to our earlier.
The easiest thing would be it goes back to our earlier point
about those lower schools kind of getting that blood money to
go play, you know, am and Notre Dame.
Those would be the easy games toget rid of just wipe those games
out. Take those easy, non-conference
games off your schedule. And that opens up a couple
weeks, okay? But now the counter-argument is

(17:46):
you've just crushed all these lower programs as you hit on
earlier in the show. So it's a it's a very
complicated equation. I don't know how they're going
to do it. But I think for these college
kids to be playing 15 16 games, I think that's a lot.
I think NFL players aren't goingto class, they're not dealing
with study hall. They're not dealing with social.

(18:07):
It's just a different world. The professional athletes being
paid. A lot of money to carry out
different schedule. It's gonna be interesting to see
See, but I appreciate your perspective.
Obviously, you follow it a lot closer than than we do here.
And I appreciate your Insight. It's going to be fascinating to
watch, but, all right, so let's jump in now, to the real reason
I have here, not just your college football expertise.
But, you know, here on you thinkwe love having conversations

(18:30):
with families and coaches, and athletes, who have navigated, or
are currently navigating this crazy experience.
We call Youth Sports and your wife was a it was a swimmer and
college. You raised three.
Kids one Olympian, all three swam at a high level
collegiately. I want to dive into just what
that Journey has been like in your family.
So take us back to the beginning.

(18:53):
Was it just swimming or your kids playing other sports?
And at one point realized swimming was something they
could really take beyond the just the local Community Rec
level or the local level. Just give us a little insight
into what that Journey looked like at it at its beginning.
Yeah. First of all, I'm I'm much more
happy to talk about. About being a swim, dad being a

(19:14):
sports writer. So this is awesome.
This is current on it. It was just you know just so
much fun. And yeah, it began, you know at
the total like accidental rudimentary simple level
neighborhood pools, summer league team six years old, you
make it to the other end of the pool and you get a heat ribbon
and you go get ice cream. And that's just, you know, that
that was it. And it was just, it was great.

(19:36):
It was, you know, just very it was very fun at every level but
you started that level. It's just very pure.
You're just saying I my kids having fun.
Yes they are. All right, well we'll just keep
going and see where this thing takes us and demonstrated some
aptitude and we asked them. Do you want to try swimming
year-round and that becomes in abigger commitment and they did

(19:59):
the yeah, they were playing other sports all the way up for
two of the three of these. My middle son, he stopped
playing basketball like when he was 12 but you know, to my
oldest, he played football basketball all the way up into
high. A school, my daughter who was
the most gifted swimmer of the bunch, she did cross country and
track and basketball through like eighth grade.

(20:21):
So we did not want this to be all encompassing, right?
You know and just all-consuming,you swimming, is it?
It was clear that that was theirbest sport but it didn't need to
be the only Sport and the constant check-in we always did
with them. Are you having fun?
Do you want to do this again next year?
The answer was always. Yes.
And so we just kind of kept going.
It was year round. Then we went from one year-round

(20:45):
team to another. There's an incredibly good
year-round program here in Louisville, Kentucky, where I
live, which is unusual, you know.
Usually it's a fairly Coastal sport, but they produce number
of Olympians. And I mean, hundreds of college
swimmers and they just kind of took off from there.
And every time there was an increase in commitment, they
were like, yeah, I want to keep doing it.

(21:05):
I want to do more, I want to do what it takes to be good, and it
just kind of unfolded that way and just to educate our
audience. Your son Mitchell went Missouri.
Your other son, Clayton went to Georgia and your daughter, The
Olympian, we'll get to that, Brooke went to Stanford, and
then silver medalist in the Tokyo Olympics.
So I we're going to dive into all that specifically, but back
to the the local scene, just back home, you mentioned, you're

(21:26):
out of his, you know, you're at a group now.
I'm assuming it's some sort of club, we have something like
that. Similar.
I'm similarly here in Charlotte.It's called Swim back and they
produce. Yeah.
And apparently they go throughout the country and
really produce a lot of ecology sounds very similar to what
you're Describing. So how competitive is it when
you have a young child? Like, do you go try out?

(21:48):
Do they get noticed at some of the other younger levels and
those coaches come over and say,hey, your son or daughter, you
know, they have some skills. We'd love them to come, join our
club and we feel like we can help develop them.
Like what is that early transition from?
When you say, okay, we're just doing this for fun and I scream,
but okay, then you get to the point say okay, they have the
skill, they have the interest. We need to put them with people

(22:09):
who can kind of cultivate that that level of skill and And see
how high we can take it. Yeah.
It's you know the the Supper Club teams are feeder teams to
the year round tubes and so theyit's funny you go to the Little
Summer Club championships and you come out and there's flyers
from all the year round clubs onyour car, you know.
And so then you guys can see, how are you going try college or

(22:32):
careers like recruiting? Yeah, yeah.
And you know, one thing to our advantage you get my wife's
women conch and so she I knew the sport very well and she
could say, yeah they're good enough.
I mean they can certainly swim, you know, they can, they can
take these steps. And so I'm just kind of

(22:52):
following her lead there, which was great for me.
I was a football basketball player through high school.
You know? I was okay that was it but she
knew that she knew the lay of this land and she could say,
yeah you know what will take them now to this to Lakeside
swim club and they'll try out and they'll make the team, it
was fine, you know? And then they were able to jump
into pretty competitive groups right away.

(23:12):
Way and and hold their own there.
And so they're people noticing you but really it's kind of up
to you like, you know, how far, how hard do you want to push it
and win? You know, I mean, one good thing
about swimming you can tell the coaches.
If your kid is 10 years old, he's doing these other sports.

(23:32):
He's only going to come three days a week, okay?
They're going to offer six practice week.
We're only going to come the friend like, okay, fine.
You know, there may be a little bit of push and pull eventually,
but you He's swimming. Thank you.
Don't have to be at every practice for the in the coach
loses his mind. If you're not there.
That's interesting. And that's probably the fact
that it is an individual sport, right?
You're part of a team. There is some collective team

(23:54):
environment, but you Miss baseball practice, you Miss
football practice it. Throws it off the entire ability
of a team to operate efficiently.
So, that's an interesting point we had early on one of our first
couple episodes we had Olympic gymnast, Shawn Johnson, and you
know, granted different different sport.
But nonetheless, that Olympic pass.
Path is a very similar path for,you know, track and field

(24:16):
athletes. Gymnast swimmers it's a very
similar kind of trajectory. So at this stage, when you say
okay we're going to go from the summer Club teams and our three
children to make a full-time commitment to being year-round.
Swimmers what does that lifestyle look like?
Gary, you hear the Michael Phelps famous stories of Michael
Phelps from the time. He was 12 years old.

(24:38):
Just he said the hours. He spent staring at that line at
the bottom of the pool just laugh.
After lap, like they talk about,you know, you gotta get swim,
you know, pool time around here is the Big Challenge, right?
So, all these kids before they go to school, it's 5 a.m. in
there in the pool. Like, give us a sense of what
did your three children's life look like in the world of
swimming and bouncing school andwhatnot?

(24:58):
You know, starting maybe issei High School.
Yeah. Hey, it's hard.
You know what I mean? It's it is it is an incredible
commitment and and It's a Grind.The practices aren't fun, right?
Okay, like football. Once a week you're going to
scrimmage, right? You're going to throw some
seven-on-seven when you're goingto have a little bit of fun in
there. In addition, to grinding it out,
basketball, same thing. And to practice five-on-five,

(25:21):
let's go up and down swimming. You don't get that really, you
ready at it, you know exactly anoccasional dive set where you're
going to compete, but mostly it's you are grinding looking at
that line on the bottom. So yeah, the big commitments
were starting ages 13 to 15 withmy kids.
I we're going to train in the morning.
You're going to do. You're going to do doubles are
going to train twice a day. So you're going to be We're at 5

(25:43):
a.m. and then you're going to come back after school and
you're going to do it again. And then all of a sudden your
practice count goes from five orsix a week to eight or nine a
week that's hard. You got to make the commitment a
to go to bed early. Be to get up C to get your
homework done somewhere in thereand then D just to go do the

(26:04):
physical demands of the sport but they did it.
And you know I give all the credit to my wife, my wife isn't
just a guy could refer to her asthe schedules are.
Are, you know, she can figure out everything.
I you know you need to be studying from this point to this
point that sort of thing and they didn't think we didn't have
to Badger them. That was the most important
thing. You know, we said if if it
becomes a thing where we're pulling you out of bed and

(26:25):
you're miserable in the morning,we're not doing it so they
committed to that and then yes, it became just a, you know, this
is going to be the like we're going to live through high
school and yeah, there's going to be some parties.
We're not going to go to and We're going to leave early and
things of that nature. And you know this trip over here

(26:47):
with my friends. I'm not can't go on because I
got a swimming this weekend. So there were sacrifices they
had to make but they did it willingly and something that is
always the come and thread when we speak to parents and we speak
to athletes here on. You think is the successful
stories? There was no one ever forcing

(27:07):
anyone to do anything. This was not Mom and Dad, living
out their dream grabbing Seeing their son or daughter out of
bed, in the morning, dragging them to the gym or in your case
to the pool. Like did you know at an early
age that your kids had that mindset to be internally driven,
that it did not require a coach to be up there acid.
Didn't mom and dad didn't have to be, you know, smack him in

(27:29):
the head, in the morning, to getout of bed or like, did you
know, early on that. They had the mental ill, you
mentioned, your wife really understood the sport.
So she knew the mental approach that it took to handle it.
Did you know they had it or wereyou?
Certainly impressed and surprised along the way with how
they managed. It's a little bit of both
because you know, they were always diligent good students,

(27:50):
you know, I mean, we never had problems in those areas at all,
but still, when you do get to 13, 14, 15 and the social
pressures, are there of you? Are you going to be in with the
cool group or not? And if you're not going to the
party with the cool group, you might not be in with it and so I
was like a little bit wait and see.

(28:12):
See, on some of that. And I was, I would always kind
of be the one that would lean towards.
Like, you know, if you don't need, want to go to practice
tomorrow, it's okay. But the kids were always, like,
I know, we'll go, it's fine, youknow.
So they did impress me in surprise me through the teenage
years but before that they did show that, they basically had a

(28:32):
baseline diligence and work ethic and and interest in like
hey whatever what I need to do to do.
Well, at what I'm doing, I'm going to do if we asked your
three kids right now. What, and we asked them, why did
you do it, right? Like, what would you say their
early motivation? It's easy for people our

(28:53):
listeners to do. They go to college.
They went to all three great schools.
So your daughter was in Olympia.And so, of course, that's why
they did it. But like, if you ask me, why I
played football, when I was 12, it was not because I was going
to go play in college and I was going to go be a professional
athlete. I just, I did it because that's
what my brothers and I did, we never really had much.
Each of you. But option, like my dad was a

(29:14):
football coach. So we played football from him,
you know? Like but we loved it right?
No one ever made us do it. So I guess the easy answer is
I'm assuming they loved it but like, is there it was there
another motivating factor. Like what about swimming was
their competitive Outlet? Well, beyond when they were
envisioning going on to college and Beyond, it's a really

(29:34):
interesting question and I wouldsay a yes, they loved it and
they enjoyed their friends. You know, they that was their
friend grew in their peer group and boy they around a lot.
So that was good B. They have success, you know, and
they've the, you know, you win, you like winning.
Okay, I'm good at this. I'm going to keep doing it.
And then the third part was I just think that they felt like
this was kind of where they belong, you know.

(29:56):
I mean again, they're the peer group and it's like, these are
my people. People, I want to hang out with
and this is what, you know, thiswhat I'm comfortable with and
the other thing, especially withmy boys, they liked other
sports. They love sports in general.
They weren't terribly aggressive, and so football.
Hey, you gotta smash into people, right basketball?

(30:16):
You got to go get that rebound swimming.
It's not the same way. You want to compete against the
person next to you, but you don't have to physically
confront them so to speak. And so swimming was a good place
for that. My daughter, she's competitive.
Himself. And I mean, she just she would
go after anybody she like playing football.
She was outraged. That there was no tackle
football for girls. So that wasn't a thing for her.

(30:38):
But for the boys, there was like, Hey, I can succeed and
compete here, without having to be physically aggressive, which
wasn't really their thing that'sreally interesting.
And it's actually a great segue because the next part of the
conversation, I wanted to dive into I have two boys and a girl
as well, very different personalities, very different
levels of interest and Sports mind you there in fourth and

(31:01):
fifth grade but I wanted to ask.We get we talk a lot about here
on. You think about parenting, not
only parenting your children differently, but parenting, your
sons and daughters differently. Whether you intend to or just
the way their interest levels their delay, the direction of
their life goes, I know, right, wrong or indifferent, there are

(31:22):
times where I parent my daughterdifferent than I parent.
My two boys were I'm a lot more direct and and to the point with
them and I'm a lot more. Nurturing and movie more patient
and comfortable with her and it's probably not the right way.
It's I tried not to do it but it's kind of human nature along
those lines. You have three kids that are all
in the same Sport and all to varying degrees having success,

(31:44):
of course, your daughter goes onto have probably the most
success obviously with being an Olympic silver medalist, but
when you are raising them up andthrough high school and so in
off to college was their experience.
Different was your experience with your wife.
Renting them and watching them on this journey is the the path
of a female swimmer in a male swimmer, similar different

(32:06):
different obstacles. Different issues you face along
the way. Yeah, that's a really
interesting topic and, and I hear you like me there, as far
as like, I know, I was harder onthe boys, especially the oldest
boy. I grew up in a family of boys.
And so, you know, that's there was a mindset that was very I

(32:29):
guess kind of just full-on head-on, you know, everything
was intensive, spawners angry, or what, you know.
I mean, it's just feel as a different kind of deal.
And so I think I parented the boys harder than I parented my
daughter. I think they would all kind of
joke about that now, so to a degree.

(32:50):
So that was very much was different as far as them going
through the sport. Yeah, it's funny.
I mean, like, especially my younger to they train And
together almost their entire career, my son went to George.
He was a very good swimmer, he was an All-American there.
And so they were in the same groups, training groups and so
they had a lot of the same experience and I love the fact

(33:13):
that the coach seem to coach thegirls the same way coach the
boys, there might have been somesubtle differences but it wasn't
like we're going to treat you guys as as China dolls and we're
going to just get after you guys.
They he coached some more But hewas very fair and he was not
abusive in any way. Wasn't a yellow screamer, but he

(33:34):
coached him hard but then the boys swam for.
They're all boys. Catholic High School and the
girls swam for her, all-girls Catholic, High School.
So they had very different experiences.
In terms of high school socialization, they didn't train
with those teams because they train with their club team and
then just showed up for the meats.
But, but just watching those meats, it was hilarious.

(33:55):
Gregory was like, the guys, you know, it's a school of 1400.
Guys, and it's a meet with 100 boys.
Swimmers. And it's just like all the time,
you know, the girls like yeah, yeah.
You know, my daughter super competitive, it wasn't
nicey-nice but it was just the atmosphere was so different.

(34:17):
Yeah. So tell us a little bit more
about that Dynamic. Did your daughter try to compete
with her? Brother's like, did you think
that played a part, you know, just in her ultimate success.
Like just give us a little when did you?
They were all good right in their own right.
Good enough to go swimming college.
But when did you realize, what was the point where you said,
okay, our daughter broke. She's she's special, she's

(34:39):
different. She has other aspirations Beyond
college that she can attain. Yeah, it was pretty early, you
know, because again, she would she want to do everything, the
boys did, you know? When I was just playing in the
yard or whatever, it was like, you know, she didn't see any
reason because she was the youngest because she was a girl,
she shouldn't be out playing basketball and football with the
boys, you know, or whatever. And then, you know, like

(35:01):
wrestling around the house. She was feisty, she was a tough
one. And so you kind of got you knew
that mindset was there. And then when yeah, you put her
in the pool and she was just, she was very strong early and
she just had a feel for the water and you know, she broke
her first state record when she was 7 or 8 8, I guess.
And so you're like, oh well, that's that's different.

(35:22):
Okay. And then I'm a stat guy.
I'm a sports writer and I see, you know, you can look up way
too much information. Way too early.
Kids online and it's like, oh, she's the fastest in the nation,
in the 50 butterfly at age, 9, 49 year olds like, wow, the
okay. There she really might have a
little something here, you know?And so you could figure it out
early on and then she had the mindset for it and it, you know,

(35:45):
I mean we kind of like you when you were talking we were sitting
there thinking college or Beyonduntil until they're 13 14 15 and
they had this they were practicing twice a day and okay,
they were rebellion and then they were getting the results
from that and So then you're looking saying, okay, there's
something Beyond just let's go be the fastest kid in the pool

(36:06):
at this certain me and how does the recruiting process were
consuming? I've come to learn for these
conversations at every sport is so uniquely different.
It it starts at different ages could commit at different you
know I think back to in footballmost kids commit like give or
take her on the junior year giveor you know especially the
five-star high-level kids but wetalked with with a bunch of

(36:28):
baseball. Eyes.
And, you know, we had Christian Yelich and just talk about his
journey through, they commit in there in tenth grade 9th grade,
it's a much earlier process in the world of baseball.
So when does it start? When do you commit?
Like, what does that prove? Is it through your club?
Team does your high school coachkind of take a backseat.
Like what does that look like inworld is swimming?

(36:49):
Yeah, High School coach didn't really involved so it's very
much around your public club club coach.
And again we were lucky that we had a guy who has sent hundreds
of swimmers. To college.
So he knew the terrain, it is a later process than a lot of
other sports is obviously. I'm really familiar with the
college recruiting for football and basketball.
This is much later. All my kids committed there

(37:11):
during their senior Year, my oldest son wasn't even shoes.
No swimming College until February of his senior year of
high school and then he committed May 1st to go to
Missouri. So, he was a late bloomer and it
is similar but different, okay, you know.
Start off, you get a lot of emails and get a lot of mailings

(37:31):
and stuff and some a lot of it'snonspecific and then it starts
to narrow down a little bit more.
And I think it's July first going into your junior year, you
can have contact start out in phone calls, and, and
face-to-face and meetings and that sort of thing.
And so you get a little bit moreof an idea where things are

(37:52):
going and it was real different for all three of them.
Again, the oldest he was almost an accidental College swimmer.
Middle. That's something he always
wanted to do. And so, he was so excited when
he's getting recruited. And the first colony got was
Georgia, which is a very good program, and that's what he
wanted. He wanted George, anyone of
Florida, and he gets the first call of God on the day that he

(38:13):
can start getting calls is Georgia.
So, he's just over the moon. And so, he ends up having a good
list of choices and takes a business and everything that
comes down to Georgia and Florida and he picks Georgia.
And then my oldest, you know, I mean like according to one
ranking service. She was a number one swimmer in
the country for class. So you get that sort of
attention and everybody wants you.
And she was a little, she could be a much more selective and

(38:35):
just kind of, like, I can pick, nobody's picking for me.
I can, I can I have all the option, or from eso's different.
Very. Now, one thing to real quick
that was very different from swimming is it's a partial
scholarship sport, okay. There's 14 scholarships for
women. There's nine point, nine four
men and this is something parents need to know.
And to think about because you start getting those scholarship

(38:57):
dreams in your head. My kids getting a full ride to
Notre Dame, you know, well maybenot in swimming, you know, then
you may get a partial. My daughter was lucky enough to
get a full but there's not many of those.
So you have to go in Eyes Wide Open about what's actually
available in terms of athletic Aid.
It's like baseball, right? They got it.

(39:17):
They got a roster, 30 kids call it and there's only 11
scholarships. Yeah, unless you're a kid who
turned down, a top-10 first-round draft pick choice
and decided you go to college. You're probably getting a half,
it's not a quarter, a third and they chop those things up pretty
good. So I think that's a great point
that you bring up that, you know, everyone out there here

(39:38):
scholarship and their eyes get big but depending on the sport
it's not necessarily fully. I think that's a great point.
I want to talk more about something.
I think it's always cool when our personal lives and our
professional lives kind of intersect and maybe I don't
understand for you. But what I would imagine as a
father, got to be one of the coolest moments of, you know,
you're a longtime Sports. Either, you've come, you've

(40:00):
covered Olympics. You've covered swim meets and
college. You've covered college football
bit, you name it. You've covered it and you have
the opportunity, your daughter'scompeting in the Olympics and
you get to write about it, coverit not only for your profession
but then you also get to experience it as a father.
Just take us back to that moment.
What was that lead up? Like what did the moment

(40:20):
actually end up being like and just how do you think back on it
now? Yeah I got a lifetime.
I mean there's nothing in my professional career that could
ever compare to it. You know I mean it's beyond Your
Wildest Dream like you really can't even like I've said this
before talking to other swim parents you really don't dream

(40:40):
of your kid going to the Olympics because it's too much.
It's too hard to do and take 26 women and 26 men from the United
States of America can, your kid really be one of those and he's
so you don't think about you, you can maybe put That in the
very back your mom. And it's like now that's that's
too much. Just go to college.
That's great when innocently Championship, that's incredible.

(41:01):
Oh my gosh. Now you get to the Olympic
trials and she's got a chance and you know, her kind of
journey through that was hard and she was going through the
covid, period her event. Her best event was 400
individual medley, which is not what she made the Olympics in
and it is the hardest event in swimming and the grind of
training for that and then the pressure of competing That with

(41:25):
an Olympics hanging over, you was really hard for her.
She had a very difficult time mentally throughout the early
part of 2022 and there was a point.
She got out of a pool during a race in March of 2022 and we
were like she's done, she's gonna quit.
She is not even going to go to Olympic trials and she said,

(41:46):
I'll go to look at trial, but I did not want to compete in the
400 IM we're like, okay, it's your choice and we're like, you
know, you were huh? A 100% supporter, but in the
back of your mind, you're like, oh my gosh, he's not going to do
this, you know, and it's just like you feel bad for her in
that moment. But then her coach who's
brilliant at Stanford. Greg me and I love him.

(42:08):
You know, he he got her back on the beam.
She competed in it. She made the final she finished
six. She did not make the team and
but after that it was honest to God.
It was just like this burden offher shoulders.
Like I am done with that event. I don't have to swim anymore.
Let's go see what happens. The rest is me.
And she makes the team and relayin the 200 freestyle which was
not expected. She was not, you know, seated to

(42:30):
make it and she just swam great,she swam free and confident and
she makes the team and that was that was like the moment that
just totally blew us away. You know, because like guy, you
can't even dream of this. And now my kid is going to the
Olympics. And then I'm sorry if I'm
rambling here, know I love you. Giving me goosebumps, you know,
my job is to cover the Olympics.I've covered eight of them

(42:53):
before. Or Tokyo.
And so I get to go to and she gets to go, which is just so off
the charts. But then it gets even more like
remarkable because none of the other parents get to go.
And I felt really bad for them. Simone biles parents can come
Kevin, Durant's family, cannot come to Tokyo Katie.
Ledecky. Can't get her parents who we

(43:14):
were good friends with King guns.
So it's just like, I get to go really and so there's almost a
little bit of like Survivor guilt like, jeez, I'm sorry, you
know, but I'm also not a Guys, Iwill tell temperature so that
has to be there for that. Yeah, it's just you know like by
the time you get there it's likejust you know don't fall start

(43:35):
don't you know just yeah just goout there and swim just do your
best and yeah and she's on a relay.
So there's a little less pressure, you know, if you're on
an American relay, chances are very good.
You're going to win a medal and so it all worked great, she swam
great. They got a silver medal and so
you know, it just it was just itwas so amazing to have been into

(43:56):
as many little things I have andknow what it's like and
everything and to look down on the deck and say that's my
daughter. And I was just incredible.
Just listening to you tell that story and just seeing the price,
it literally is giving me chillsjust thinking about what that
must have been like and I appreciate you sharing that.
I have one more thing for and weleave kind of leave a lot of our

(44:17):
guests with this question and I think maybe no one better to
answer it. Then you just with your wealth
of experience in all different aspects of the sporting world.
If you had one message to leave to the people listening to your
story, to listening to this pod about this youths.
It's the experience from the, from the perspective of a
parent, specifically, a father, how to manage your own anxiety,

(44:40):
how to manage your own stress that you internalize on behalf
of your child? You everyone wants to see their
kids succeed. Everyone doesn't want to see
their kids struggle. We we all we all do that on a
day-to-day basis, like what message or piece of advice?
Would you have for them that allowed you to handle it and
allowed your children succeed? As you kind of were able to

(45:00):
partake in that Journey alongside with them?
Yeah, because it is stressful and it is I mean you get so
nervous but it's all just because you want the best for
your kid, right? So I think the most important
things were an ounce of perspective of just meet them
where they are, you know, you may have dreams that your kids

(45:21):
going to be the greatest but if they're not, you got to be fine
with where they are, right? And you can help them succeed
and get better and everything, but you can't push them as much
as you know. You can again go Go with them.
Don't push them or drag them along to where they can go.
So, you know, to enjoy if your kid Is the 37th best swimmer on

(45:45):
the team. One of the great things about,
did you swim your own best time?Yeah.
Doesn't matter where you placed?You may be 37 but dude, you do
better than you've ever done before.
That's awesome. Then celebrate that, you know,
as far as managing the stress, Ijust think not to not to
broadcast it to your kid. Don't let your kid know how
stressed you are, you know, whatever that, whatever.
Form, it may take two, but don'tdon't let them know.

(46:08):
I'm nervous as hell for you, youknow, it's great.
Hey, have fun. Go in there and have fun and I'm
going to go outside here and bend over and feel like I'm
going to throw up, but you go with, you know, just don't don't
grip it. Don't make your stress their
stress. That's so that's such a great
point because I think so often. We're all guilty of that.
I know I am, right? I think our kids feel that they

(46:31):
kind of feed off that, and they're already stressed enough,
right? We've already created enough
stress in their lives, in this world, specifically in sports,
that they don't need any of our.So Pat, I can't thank you
enough. This has been an awesome
conversation, not only about your family, but also just your
expertise in the college Collegelandscape of Athletics.
When I saw, I can't thank you enough.

(46:52):
Pat, thank you for joining us here for you for another episode
here on you think. And we're going to have you
back. You're going to be our college
football expert. So we're going to we're going to
keep it or going to keep you in the pipeline here as things
continue to develop across the landscape.
So thanks so much for joining us.
Hey, my pleasure. Greg, thank you very much.
It was a pleasure and an honor and I look forward to talking
again. I spat appreciate it.

(47:16):
I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation with Sports
Illustrated writer long time, columnist, Pat 40.
It was so cool to, you know, just here is, you know, it
personally just to hear, you know, raising two sons and one
daughter very similar to my household.
So kind of a lot of what he talked about raising them little
differently but also trying to make sure you do it.
You know, treat them all fair and the same was cool and I got

(47:39):
a lot out of that personally. But I hope you guys just enjoyed
that conversation. It was got a good mix of college
football and College athletics, today's world and also the
personal side which to us here at you, think is always the fun
side is listening to everybody'sperspective and and hopefully
all learning a few lessons from other people's mistakes and
successes as they raise their kids in the Youth Sports world

(48:02):
that we all know and love and atthe time times we hate but the
one thing we don't hate is we all love.
Go Syracuse. Sure.
What's up, Syracuse one so bad. Tasha, before we jump in these
questions? Yeah.
Can you explain so Tasha her father, Syracuse, football,
coach Dino babers. They are rolling their

(48:23):
undefeated. Can we explain they changed the
rules at halftime? Because they were beating Wagner
so bad. Yeah, I didn't know that they
could do this. But apparently, if both coaches
agree, you can limit the quarters.
So the quarters were only ten minutes which I didn't notice
like yours and then It's like, oh strange, I didn't even know,

(48:43):
you could shorten football gameslike run, it was it like running
clock and not allowed to pass because that's what my kids pop
warner team. That's our rules when we get up
by too much, I don't know, I didn't see a lot of passes after
that. It was just mostly running but
I'm not sure if like you had to run your Dad's because your
dad's a good guy. But yeah, we're 5.
And now there's only 16 25 better fight like that are
undefeated five. Say it one more time, I have a

(49:05):
note 5 and oh, how good does that feel?
It feels great. So how's next on the schedule?
Who's Next? Who do we got next?
We have a bye week. What's the big?
Yeah, we have been weakened and then we have NCCA 6 and 0.
You'll be 6 and 0 on the bye week.
And then you have n c-- state, that will be a big one home or
away at home. Let's go.

(49:25):
Yeah, I could be a game walking.It's not the Carrier Dome
anymore, right? They changed the name.
No, they did change the name andI don't know the name and I know
I feel like they changed it. I apologize to whoever the new
name is here at will be better here on you think?
I'll look it up? Good luck to Syracuse.
We were, you think now is a Syracuse fan.
We are Syracuse fans. We follow every weekend they're

(49:47):
crushing it. All right.
Well, what do you got for us today?
What are our questions? Yeah the fans have been
following you Greg. And we have some interesting
ones today from Matt on Instagram.
He says a kid got caught vaping after practice and one of his
teammates let the school know. So now the kid that turned to
men is getting punished by the coaches for not being a team

(50:07):
player. What's your take on that?
That's a tough one. I know, you know, I had this
philosophy in as It gets dangerous or until, you know,
the kids putting himself like, truly, In Harm's Way and you got
to alert, someone right? Is I would love to encourage if

(50:27):
I was coaching High School sports or high school football
team or whatever. I would do my best to empower
the kids to police themselves asmuch as possible, right.
And try to not always run to a coach, not make an adult, always
handle it. Like, go have a conversation
with the kid explain to him hey these are the expectations of
our team, be a good leader. You Empower them.

(50:48):
To take ownership of the team and the expectations of what it
means to be a part of this seemslike that would be, you know,
pie-in-the-sky magic wand. That would be my hope is that it
never had to end up in my on my desk as the head coach.
I don't know whether that happened here or not, I think
there is an element to a team where you do want to protect
each other. But then I think at a certain

(51:09):
point if the behavior becomes not only destructive to the
individual but then it becomes destructive to the team and I
don't know whether this clarified classifies has that or
not. Then of course, it needs to be
brought to the head coach and handled.
I think the point the coach is trying to make his maybe along
the lines of what I'm saying is like, hey you gotta have your
guys back, you got to take the ownership and go have that

(51:30):
conversation with him, don't go run and tattle tale.
Don't go run and be a snitch until it gets to the point where
you're not able to handle it. You're not able to maintain it
and it's becoming now a negativeon our team.
So I think that would be my Approach.
I my gut is that's sort of the lesson.
The coach is trying to instill here.
But, you know, I think there's afine line between teaching your

(51:52):
kids when they need to report something bad to an authority
figure, an adult a parent, a coach when it needs to be and
there needs to be something to get involved and help, don't
know if this necessarily, you know, was classified in that
position. I would love to see the kid
handling himself first before getting a coach involved.

(52:13):
I think that would be my ultimate hope.
I mean, maybe the kid, he rattedout was first string.
Maybe he Right behind him. Maybe it was JT's.
Maybe, maybe this was a, maybe this was a political Ploy.
This was like a Game of Thrones movement where you're trying to
Slit the throat of the guy in front of you.
Like, I get it, man. It's a Cutthroat world out
there, so there's some context here that we might be missing,
but I think the overall lesson is Empower, your kids to police

(52:36):
themselves, take ownership of the team.
Take ownership of holding the rules everyone.
We will be better when it doesn't always have to be at the
coaches. You know, putting the coaches
thumb on everybody and micromanaging.
Yeah, that would be my Overall hope.
Well, our second question is also from Instagram.
It says, my parents never, let me play contact Sports.
Both were doctors and more cautious about head injuries.

(52:57):
As I was growing up. Now that I'm out of high school,
I feel like I'm missing out and I still have a shot to play
football in college or even the CFL.
What advice can you give to me? This must be a hell of an
athlete. I think, first and foremost, if
this, this I'm assuming is a guy, this guy has a ton of
confidence because if you've never played a down of contact

(53:19):
Sports and now you're you think you're going to go play in
college of the CFL you go? Shoot your shot.
Dude you go you go chase your dream you know, it's hard.
You know I think you know being a parent is hard right?
Making decisions on behalf of your kid when even if it's not
the decision, they want to make in the moment is hard, obviously
there's Lot of conflicting reports around the safety of

(53:42):
football, right? It'll just take football, you
know, for this case, you know, with the head injuries and just
safety health and safety to begin with.
I think a lot of those stories and a lot of those things.
Now are starting to be seen as maybe a little misleading.
I think there's a lot more context and a lot more clarity
that's been provided over these last couple years and I also
think there's been a lot of really good rule changes and
implementing you know different standards at the Youth Level all

(54:04):
the way up through what we see in the NFL which is recognizing
maybe some of the more R, dangerous components to the game
and making a little more safer, right?
So I think there's a lot of moving Parts here, but I, my
advice to him would be, you can't go back in time.
You can't go back and get a highschool, you know football season
you can't. It is what it is.
Your parents made the decision that they felt was in your best

(54:25):
interest. And if you have a dream now to
chase it, go chase it. Don't have any regrets if you
make it and you're the long shotand you're the, you're the one
in a million more power to you, don't let anyone tell you, you
can't do it. And obviously, it appears that
you feel strongly About it. So my advice to you would be
Chase it learn, get in the Hip Pocket as someone who has a
little experience, find a coach find, a former player, find

(54:46):
someone who can least teach you a little bit of the beginnings
that you missed and if you're a great athlete and you work hard
enough, who knows what happens? We've seen crazier stories over
the years. So that would be my advice.
I just love the confidence, I love it.
I mean more power to this guy that she gave us his name and
our last audience. Question is a really cute
question. It says, it's from Instagram.

(55:08):
It says Players like Christian McCaffrey Cam and Luke always
loved playing with you and vice versa.
So what do you think is special about your teammate friendships?
All that is Q. I feel we need to put in some
like music into that you know I was really fortunate that in all
my you know all my different stops in my career that I played
with some really great guys, youknow, not just great players,

(55:30):
right? All those guys named are great
players, I can name a million more Ryan Khalil and I can go up
and down the list of guys that were just great players in their
own, right? But they were all just Dudes to
be around. We had an absolute blast.
And I think when you talk to former players like me and
people say, hey what do you missthe most?
You don't miss practice. You don't miss getting your ass
kicked, you miss before. And after the games in the

(55:51):
locker room you miss the plane rides, you miss the bus ride you
miss going out to lunch during training camp.
You miss the struggle together like you miss all the P, the
parts of the camaraderie and thestuff that you you you work
together. You know you had setbacks
together, you had successes together and like building those
relationships. Relationships, you know, kind of
through the fire of living your kind of Life side by side with

(56:13):
other. A lot of other guys that had
similar kind of life goals and whatnot.
It was that was the special partof playing in the NFL and that's
the part that you don't really get that back.
You know there's very just very few areas of the world where you
can have an NFL locker room and you know some of it's probably
not great for HR but we had a blast, right?
We had a blast together. Yeah.

(56:35):
That the relationships are what you build or what you take from
the game. It's what you Take with you, the
rest of your life, all those guys and more or still some of
my closest friends to this day and it wasn't because we were
all football players, it was because we all shared a very you
know similar passion we shared similar setbacks and struggles
and successes and we work. Next we worked hard side by side

(56:56):
for a long time and we learned alot about each other.
We learn to trust each other. We learn to count on each other.
We learn to hold each other accountable.
It's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of kind of connections
that are formed when things are Hard.
And when you do things that you share a common interest in.
So yeah, I mean, the friendshipsare always the most important
part. I always wanted guys to trust
me. I always wanted to be able to
trust them back and trust is a great is a great Foundation to

(57:20):
build relationships off. Of that was so cute.
Thank you. Well, that's all you got.
Shout out to shout out to me. Thank you guys.
Thank you guys all so much. Thank you, Tasha go orange.
Thank you guys so much for listening here on.
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