December 23, 2025 • 39 mins
Kimberly Langwell leaves work just after 5 p.m. on July 9, 1999, and vanishes.
Kimberly has dinner plans with her 15-year-old daughter, Tiffani, and new boyfriend, Ken Weatherford, but fails to show up. Tiffani notifies the police immediately, as it is totally out of character for her mother not to show up.
Police find Kimberly's car in the evening, and she disappears in the parking lot of an Eckerds Pharmacy. Searching the vehicle, investigators find her cell phone, but her purse and keys are missing. Nothing appears to be broken, and there is no sign of blood.
Kimberly Langwell is gone.
Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack discuss the case and what happened after 25 years that led to an arrest in the disappearance and murder of Kimberly Langwell.
Transcript Highlights
00:00.37 Introduction - Forsaken places
03:37.72 Single mother of 15-year-old daughter, vanishes, 1999
06:23.13 Kimberly's car is found in an Eckard Drug Store parking lot
10:43.67 Keys and purse found in car, cell phone missing
15:02.04 Beaumont, Texas, is a busy place
20:18.30 Tip comes from a "trusted informant"
25:10.94 Hollowed out area beneath Rose bedroom
30:12.60 Search warrant has to state what is being sought and where
35:02.20 Synthetic fiber resilient
39:47.80 Conclusion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Quody doctors with Joseph's gotten More.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm of the opinion that there is no such thing
as a god forsake in town. I just I don't
believe in that. I don't think God forsakes places. People
act on places, and they create a culture. Many times.
Sometimes so the environment will create a culture. And it's
(00:27):
kind of like being over in London. You know, if
you're walking around in London and you're complaining about her reigning,
they'll say, well, it's not bad weather, it's poor clothing choices.
And I think that that can be said. That's a
through line fancy Hollywood term there, that's a through line
that you hear many times in life. And listen for
(00:48):
every town that has something bad, there is something good.
And we're going to talk about one such location today,
a place that I'm kind of familiar with called Bama Beaumont, Texas,
And for years and years Beaumont has, you know, held
the title, what was it called the Carcinogen Coast. They were,
(01:10):
you know, the area just outside of Houston and Lake Charles, Louisiana. Uh,
those areas where you had all of the petroleum industry
and chemical factories and all these sorts of things, but
had a lot of cool stuff too. You know, you
had access to some of the best fishing in the world,
old spindle Top. People may have heard of it, that
(01:32):
that fantastic will find back decades and decades ago. It's
made that location, that that area has made a lot
of people wealthy. But there is kind of a darkness
there sometimes. I think you you wait with baited breath
here in hurricane season because in an instant everything that
you have can be gone, and that has happened a
(01:53):
number of times in Beaumont. And don't get me started
about the heat and humidity. But for all of that
good stuff, you've got great food, you've got great places
to visit and go boat riding, and all those sorts
of things. So you do, in fact take the good
with the bad. But today, on bodybacks, I want to
talk to you about a case that's wow started all
(02:16):
the way back in nineteen ninety nine, and it's the
case of a single mother, a single mother who was
raising her child who at the time I think was
probably fourteen or fifteen when she went missing. And all
these years later, she's finally been found identified, and someone
has finally been held responsible.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
For her murder.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks, Dave. I
don't know if you've ever been down I headed westbound
out of Louisiana and going into Texas.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I have not.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
It's an interesting part of the world. It's really fascinating.
You cross over the crossover state line coming out of
Louisiana and the names don't change very much. You know
that area Dine round Lake Charles, in that area. I
have ancestors that settled that area. I had a great
great grandmother that never spoke English, she only spoke Cajun French.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
With all that background, we have in store for us
today the story of Kimberly Langwell, a thirty four year
old single mother of a fifteen year old who has
really been in and out of a rough relationship with
a guy named Terry Rose. They had dated for a while,
(03:39):
but Kimberly had broken up with him after the abuse
got to the point where she was done. You know,
she just couldn't take it anymore, and she actually had
started dating another man and it was a hit. Her
daughter was so happy, you know that she actually was
with this new boyfriend who actually was his name was
(04:01):
kim Weatherford, and he was respectful, he was kind and
treated her mother the way that Tiffany thought mom.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Should be treated.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
So it's with that background that we come into Kimberly
Langwell leaving work, going to run by her old boyfriend's
house to pick something up and then gonna meet Tiffany
and Ken. They're having dinner together that night. They've got
plans for dinner that evening. When Kimberly Langwell does not
(04:32):
show up for these pre arranged dinner plans with her
daughter and new boyfriend, it immediately, immediately Tiffany calls the
cops and we're talking within a couple of hours of
not being able to find her mom. It's nineteen ninety nine.
We did have technology then, we did have cell phones.
A lot of us had them. And anyway, when Tiffany
(04:53):
couldn't get up with her mom, she actually got up
with the police right away and reported her mother missing.
And yeah, first thing they did, well, let's clear the boyfriend,
you know, get the new boyfriend. So I'm getting this
out of the way, so you know that they were
they being the investigators, they were very quickly on this case,
and they very quickly had kim Weatherford and Tiffany, the
(05:15):
daughter and the boyfriend. They're isolated. Okay, they're not the problem.
But where is Kimberly Languell? Where did she go?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Joe? Yeah, because we don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I have no idea. What's fascinating about this is that
first off, for folks that don't understand, this is and
just a reminder, this is July ninth nine.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Dave, Yeah, sorry, Oh no, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I had to reflect back because I had to think
about what was I doing in nineteen ninety nine, and
it was so You're in the dead heat of the
summer there in South Texas, and Kimberly's thirty four years
old at the time, and you know, she's to leave
(06:00):
everything in the in the rear view mirror, you know,
and unfortunately, unfortunately, you know, it's those types of things
many times are hard, you know, to leave in the
rear view mirror. But they they did an exhaustive search
for and Dave, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw out a
business name here that we haven't heard in a long time.
(06:23):
They did find something, oh I know, they found Ecker
her car in the parking lot of in Eckert's Drugs.
My wife and her sister both worked at Eckerd's Drugs. Yeah,
they don't exist anymore. I don't know who gobbled them up.
I'm sure some of our friends probably know the story
to that. But they were everywhere, you know, years and
(06:44):
years ago, all over the South yet Eckers. I don't
know about the rest of the country, but they were
all over the place, and inside of her vehicle, which
was I think like a nineteen ninety four Nissan Altama.
If I'm not mistaken, she was not there. They did not
have signs of that you would that you would commonly
(07:08):
associate with with blood, you know, like violence that took
place inside the cabin of a car, and I can't
remember where did they find were keys and her purse
in there as well? I think yeah, in the car
and she had cell phone.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
That was the way I got to add this to it.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
As long as we're there, because, as I mentioned, when
she didn't show up for the dinner with her daughter
and new boyfriend, her daughter goes to the police because
this is a big deal. And six months before this happened,
Terry Rose actually strangled her. He actually physically strangled Kimberly.
(07:49):
That was the where they and they were already broken
up when that happened. So Tiffany, her fifteen year old daughter,
was concerned about her going to do anything around Terry Rose.
So when she doesn't show up, boom, she's right off
to the cops and they find her car within twenty
four hours. I mean, the actually they found it that night.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
What does it.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Take within the constitution of a fourteen, fifteen year old
girl to be the one that's going to take this
on her shoulders and go and track down the authorities? Yep,
I mean, I guess I would have done it. You know,
at that age, if my mother had been missing, you
probably would have done it. But you know, when you
think about that, you know, to come most of the time,
(08:29):
when we think about people alerting, you know, alerting the police,
search teams, this sort of thing, it's it's generally an adult,
but you have and you know nowadays, you know, I
come across you know, you come across teenagers nowadays, and
even my college students. You speak to them and they
look like you've got three heads coming on of your shoulders,
(08:49):
like you know, you're an idiot. Why are you talking
to me, oh yeah, but to.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Have it doesn't happen. It happens every minute of the day.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Go to a grocery store that has a clerk that's
still in high school and when you you know, you're
trying to get their attention to pay for something because
they're on their phone and talking to somebody else. Hey
can you check the price on this? And it's like
are you speaking English? Yes, but hey, I do want
to add something. You know, I'm in the car. Okay,
Her purse and keys were missing. Her cell phone was
(09:20):
in the car. Cell phone was in the car. Okay,
So you've got her cell phone in the car, but
her purse and keys are missing. So you've got the
car that has parked at the Eckert's parking lot. And
you would think if you're taking your person your keys
with you, you take your cell phone. You know they go
cand in hand, right.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, they kind of do. And did she you know,
here's a big quick investigative question. Well, in order to
get the car there. In order to get the car there,
it's not like nowadays. You know, those keys those cars
back then were not electronically keyed. These are keys you
had to place into the ignition more time. You know,
I'm talking about using an ignition as if it's something
(10:03):
from the olden days. But you know, taking a key
and inserting it into an ignition and turning it and
they're both gone, you know. Nowadays, you know, I know,
people will just you know, they'll have their keys in
their purse or in their pocket or whatever, and you
just press the button in the car and the car
turns over, you know, and you can just leave, exit
(10:23):
the vehicle and your keys go with you. But back then,
you know, she it wasn't like she would have left
them in the ignition, so the keys had to be
removed from the ignition and either gathered with the purse
or dropped into into the purse. Here's the question though,
why was her cell phone still in there?
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Right?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
You know? Why why did that occur? And we granted
we had technology back then to day, but it wasn't
as the tracking wasn't as sophisticated back then as it
is now. What wouldn't even approach it, you know, to
what we have nowadays.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I'm amazed how much has changed in the last ten years. Yeah,
just in the last ten years of where we were
in twenty fifteen versus where we are today, you know,
and now you're talking, you know, twenty five years ago,
and it was you know again not the dark ages
or anything by that. But still her cell phone was
left in the vehicle, her person keys are gone. So
(11:21):
to those looking at it, they said, the investigator said,
it suggested to them that there was a struggle, an abduction,
even but nothing was obviously broken, and there was no
sign of blood. So in their mind's eye, her purse
and keys going but her phone staying behind indicated something
(11:41):
to law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, and you know, unlike today as well, I think
that we would be the police would be so compelled,
just from a professional standpoint, if you had a vehicle
with a known owner that is missing, the entire the
entirety of the interior of that car would have been swabbed, Dave,
(12:05):
it would have been swabbed for those things that we
can't see. You know, you look back then, you know,
you look around for signs of struggle, you look for
blood deposition. But you know, at the molecular level, there
was no way we could have even begun back then
to think that we could swab for perhaps touch DNA.
The answers to Kimberly's location would have to rely on
(12:29):
something else, and again that wouldn't happen for years and
years to come. You know. Most of the time, Dave
(12:51):
with the reason cases go cold and I'll bang the
drum forever and ever is not necessarily the fault of
the police. It's just not. It's the reality of you
don't develop new leads and you have more cases that
are piling on on and on and on and on,
and sooner or later, that little light that was kind
(13:15):
of flashing, you know over this case that is unsolved,
is diminished. It's dimmed, you know, however you want to
say it. It's no longer viable. And what happened in
was it twenty fourteen? It was actually they that's you
know when you think about how many years later.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
That yes, when you sent this to me and I
was looking at it because you know, whenever you have
a missing person and I think about where I like
the first thing you did, where was I? In July
of nineteen ninety nine, where was I?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
What was I doing?
Speaker 3 (13:48):
And if you remember, it was why two K? We
were all preparing for Y two K because the world
was going to stop at Why two k you needed
to buy a generator in your dry food and all that.
That's all you're stockpiling back then.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Remember, Oh yeah, I remember it very well.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Of weird stuff going on. But fifteen years go by
and there's no sign of her. Her once fifteen year
old teenage daughter, Tiffany is now an adult. She's a
thirty year old adult and does not know what happened
to her mother. And because it happened so fast, gone
in the blink of an eye, there was little that
(14:22):
could be done, Joe. After they did the basic look around,
they didn't have anything. And I wonder, I don't know
what evidence they had or didn't have, but I know this.
They didn't have enough evidence to go look at Terry
Rose's house, you know. No, even though that was the
last known location she was going to be, even though
(14:43):
they knew that there had been violence in that relationship previously,
they could not develop enough evidence to take it in
front of a judge and say we.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Need to go to search this guy's house.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah. You know, that's a fascinating point, David. I really
wonder how hard they pressed him. Yeah, at that moment
in Tom. The one other thing that I will tell
you about Beaumont is that Beaumont is not all rainbows
and unicorns. It has its share of crime and has
(15:13):
for years and years. It is a busy place. And
I wonder, I wonder what happened in those initial meetings
with Rose, you know, when they go to talk to him.
Did were there any suspicions raised at that point in time?
(15:34):
Here's the other thing. Could the detectives develop any substance
of information at that moment in time to get a
search warrant at his house? Because you don't have a body.
This is the problem. Obviously, you don't have a body.
You don't have even have any evidence that some kind
of traumatic event has occurred. All you know is that
(15:57):
you've got this scal's car, that the person the per versus, missing,
keys are missing, cell phone's there, and the car is there,
and it's just parked in a parking lot outside of
a drug store. Where do you go from there to
try to develop information? And in this particular case, it
would seem as though that they didn't have a lot
(16:18):
to hang their hat on legally, because if they were
able to see him. Here's one interesting thing I think, Dave,
remember what you said earlier about his violence toward her.
He tried to choke her and one thing. And I'm
(16:39):
not please understanding hearing right. I'm not trying to Monday
Morning quarterback the cops. I'm just wondering if that's the
modality that he had chosen earlier and they had awareness
of that. I wonder how well they looked at his hands.
I wonder how well they looked at his face or
his neck to see if there were any scratch marks,
if there was any bruising anything left behind on him.
(17:02):
This would have been in the summer months, so he
wouldn't probably have been wearing long sleeve shirts. There used
to be an old adage, if somebody shows up to
be interviewed by the police officers in the debt of
summer and they're wearing an overcoat, make sure that they
take the overcoat off or sweater or sweatshirt or anything
like that, because you want to be able to see
(17:26):
see their arms and hands. They're trying to mask something.
So they couldn't even develop anything then. And I'm thinking
back now, Wow, just think if they had actually developed
some information there, Dave, you would not be fighting against
the patina that sets in with time, how things change
(17:48):
over a period of time where those things that would
have looked fresh in those moments early on and had
not been yet subjected to say, environmental changes or whatever
the case might be, structural changes, it would still appear
like it would be glaring when you see it. But
you know, as as it turns out, and we're going
(18:10):
to tell that story, Joe.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
You know, we mentioned this a minute ago about after
fifteen years, they had a prayer vigil to bring awareness
to her case in twenty fourteen. They did it on
July ninth, twenty fourteen. As I was researching this case,
you know, just from the media standpoint, I want to
see what they were reporting, because you know, you've got
a very sympathetic figure.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
A single mom.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, thirty four years old goes missing and never heard
from again, and they don't have a break in the case,
not anything.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, her fifteen year old daughter's taking point on it.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Yeah, that's ano fifteen years go by and they have
actually have a prayer vigil. And by the way, it
wasn't just for Kimberly Languall.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
It was for other.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Crimes that had not been solved against women. But she
was the main focus. So they did it on July ninth,
on that anniversary date, but nothing was found.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Joe.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
And so.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
The reason we're covering this now is because in twenty
twenty four, it took until twenty twenty four before there
was a break in this case. The break in this
case happened with what is called a reliable informant. Now,
(19:20):
a reliable informant is somebody who has had contact with
law enforcement.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Usually he or she has been arrested.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Has actually fallen down the rabbit hole a couple of times,
and in order to get out of trouble, he or
she has given information to police that turned out to
be true and that's how they got out of the
trouble they were in, or lessened the punishment.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
That they would receive, Yeah, that they would have received otherwise. Yeah,
So they could.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Have been an uncover paid informant too.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, any number of things. But usually somebody doesn't just
one day leave their job as an accountant and call
the police and say, I'd like to be an informant
for you guys, what do you need?
Speaker 1 (20:05):
You know, it's usually somebody who.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Gets busted for you know something, you know, a drug
related defense or whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I go hang out in a biker bar every single night.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
There you go. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna
help you.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's the person you don't want
involved in this.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
So the finder is so key. That's why Joseph Scott
Morgan has taught me the finder of the Lord the key.
Every time I see a finder, that's the person I'm
looking at every time.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, And it's and it won't necessarily be in every
obvious and obviously every single case that is going to
be the finder. However, it's the best. It's the best
bit of data that you have to be in your face, right.
It's it's that proverbial thread that you're going to pull fainting.
And in this particular case, when it comes to Kimberly,
(20:59):
you have to begin to think, well, is this a
big break that we wanted to have those prayers that
have been offered up now ten years prior to at
that prayer vigil. Is there a crack? Is there an
indication that maybe an answer is on the way, or
maybe just maybe is somebody going to wind up behind bars?
(21:37):
I hate tight spaces, Dave. I hate working in them.
As a matter of fact, I think that it goes
back to I know that it does back to the
stuff I've dealt with mentally and emotionally and all that
sort of stuff from years and years ago. Is that
residue that kind of hangs on me? Do you know
that I cannot And I know I've mentioned it before,
(21:57):
but if my son or my wife comes into the
bathroom and they stand between me and the door and
my skin starts to crawl, I can't can't, I can't
take it. I have to get out of the room.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I try not.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I try to tamp it down, you know, but it's
just one of those things where I can't stand being
hemmed in at all.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Okay, now here's my question for you. I actually made
a note to ask you this. Okay, all right, we've
gone all this time. It's April twenty twenty four. Kimberly
went missing July of nineteen ninety nine. There's been nothing.
There has been nothing, zilch nod of We don't. She
just vanished and all of a sudden. This reliable informant
(22:41):
tells police that Langwell's ex boyfriend Terry Rose, admitted that
she was murdered inside his home the same day she
went missing and was buried on the property. Now, based
on the informant information, Joseph Scott Morgan detectives obtained an
(23:02):
evidentiary search warrant for Roses residents and properties. Yeah, when
they get out there on the property, you're talking about
somebody who has been dead for twenty five years. What
are you really looking for? And if they're buried on
the property, what are you looking for after twenty five years.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Well, it's hard to find anything after that period of
time because the topography out there has If you're talking
about a dirt space, you know, in a yard, just
think about your own yard. A lot of that stuff
is reintegrated by that point in tom Okay, Like you're
not going to have like if you go out onto
a scene, if you go out onto a scene that's
(23:42):
a fresh burial, right, you'll see vegetation that's disrupted. As
a matter of fact, you know, you'll see when perpetrators
bury bodies, you will find entire bits of plants that
are inverted and the roots are sticking up out of
the ground and the green leafy stuff is down, okay,
and it's it's so glaring you know, I mean you
(24:05):
you know, if you got there with the suspicion that
somebody's buried, it stands out. But Dave, they searched property,
didn't find anything. And what was fascinating about this case
is that, yeah, they searched outside of the home and
called no joy there was nothing out there. However, the
(24:28):
this is what I was getting through a minute ago
about being in closed space. It turns out that ground
penetrating radar had revealed that beneath the floor of the home,
which sounds like a crawl space, there was a big
area where there was no metal support. There was nothing
(24:51):
beneath the floorboards. But as it shot down you could
see that there was like an almost five y three
space that was hollowed out in the ground beneath beneath
Rose's bedroom. And so you know it that's going to
(25:12):
stand out, you know, with the GPR, when you're you're
rolling over an area, it's going to really strike like
you would. It's one of the things that people are
really attuned to. They use these a lot in forensic
anthropology programs to train the students. A matter of fact,
we're trying to get our hands on one at Jack
(25:33):
State to help our students, you know, understand how how
one works. It's so glaring to people that that utilize
these things all the time. They can read the topography
and they can read the read out on the screen
as it it begins to paint this picture. And they
used to do these big, you know, big print outs.
(25:56):
You know that you would go back and look over.
I'm sure a lot of stuff is more in real
time now than it used to be, but you'll see
these changes in the soil that you have. How if
it's if there's a depression there sometimes dependent upon if
there's not a lot of interference, you can actually make
(26:17):
out the outline dave of human remains like you can
you can appreciate a skull. I've often compared it to
do you remember going to see an ultrasound of a
child where the technician is sitting there and they're saying, yeah,
see right here, and I'm thinking, what I don't see it.
(26:40):
It's kind of like going to an autopsy. You know,
people that aren't used to being in that environment. When
you open up you know, the chest and the abdomen
you're looking and I see it, and it will be
so glaring to me. But people are like, what are
you looking at? Everything looks the same to me, and
it takes time to read it. I think that that
translate translates to a lot of air areas in our life.
(27:01):
But when they saw this Dave beneath his bedroom floor
and that's something I want to get to. And they
began to examine the floor, you could see apparently where
a huge area of the floor had actually been cut away, wow,
and had been replaced in this area. And when the
(27:25):
authorities got out there and began to dig about, they
actually found blanketed remains that were stuffed down in this hole.
Now I know I've got my questions here because I'm
always fascinated. I'm always fascinated by individuals that are perpetrators
(27:49):
that will kill someone and then hang on to the remains.
And I've always felt I don't know how you feel
about this, I'd love to hear your opinion, but I've
always felt as though that it's a control issue relative
to access an opportunity. You know who's going to have
acts if you have possession over the body, Okay, no
(28:10):
one else is going to have right access to it. However,
if they get a search warrant. Yeah, and come to
your house. You're really rolling the dice, don't you think.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
You know?
Speaker 3 (28:19):
We had this discussion and in a current case with
the D four VD and Celeste in California, because of
her body being found in a car that registered to
Hindo was parked outside his house and had been moved,
but it was always right there along the street, and
we talked about it. Then why would you keep this
so close to home? Well, we have a number of
(28:40):
cases like that, and in this particular case, here's my
quag Joe.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
The guy.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Buries her under his house, under his bedroom, and my
only thinking is, Okay, you've done the deed. Nobody saw
you do it. Because it happened inside your home, and
they come looking inside your home, they're not going to
find it. They're not going to find her. And as
long as he is in that home, nobody else is
(29:07):
going to have access to this spot. Now, if he
were to sell the home, somebody else has it. If
he were to take her and bury her body somewhere
out in the desert or whatever is around Beaumont, you know,
then somebody else could have access.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
But swamp, Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
But burying her underneath his bed. Hey, you know what,
the only person that's going to get in there is
somebody you either let in or finds the way to
do it. Which is why I'm bothered that you have
a man who had been in a relationship with Kimberly
up until six months previously or further back than that,
because they were broken up when he tried strangling her
(29:42):
in January of nineteen ninety nine, and you've got.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Records of this.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
How did they not have the ability to stand in
front of a judge and say, you know, because that's
what with a search warrant. You actually have to present
your report of what you expect to find, where you
expect to find it, and why, and a judge looks
at it, and again, this is constitutional. Friends, you cannot
please it can't just come to my house and say
we hate Dave Mac we're going to find our ways
(30:08):
and you get in his house and look for something.
They can't go on a fishing expedition.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
No, I can't, and you have to. And one other
thing people don't realize is that you have to state
what you're looking for, and you also have to stay
where you're going to be looking for these items. And
I love the fact that you mentioned the term fishing,
fishing expedition. I find it. It's kind of fascinating to me.
(30:32):
I really wonder if when they started searching the home,
if like a bolt, you know, the cops looked at
the floor and they're like, what the hell is this?
Why does this look like this? You know, we've got
this reliable person, and here's one more thing. I want
to know. Who does this and then runs their mouth
(30:54):
to somebody about it?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Well, you know what, there are a number of convicted
felons sitting in prison right now, some even on death
row that got away with it until they told somebody else.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
You know.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
In this particular case, show Tim Miller with Texas Equisearch. Tim,
he was actually using the sonar, the side scan sonar
and everything else they use for that, I mean, the
ground penetrating sonar, right, Yeah, and with him before many times, Nancy, Yeah, yeah,
many many times. I loved him. He's a nice man.
But anyway, I've read some of his comments about this,
(31:27):
you know, and it was fascinating to me that early reports,
you know, because the press was all over this when
it came out that they were digging, they were out
of the house. First report was that a body was
found under the driveway in the front yard, and that's
what the press had and ran with.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Oh, look there's a picture. I saw their picture of
the e r T. The FBI e r T out there. Yeah,
and they busted up the concrete and it's like chunks,
chunks of concrete lay all over the place. Man, what
a disappointment that must be.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
You know about it?
Speaker 3 (32:05):
If that's what you're reliable in air quotes, you know,
person told you that that's where you would find the body.
I mean, what, but did they find something out there?
Was the body buried underneath the driveway and then moved?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Good question?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
But God, that seems like a lot of trouble to
have to go to because you would have to encase
it in concrete cement and then crack that open, take
the body out, and then bring it in. Now is
it possible you could have wrapped the body because when
they found her body, Dave, she was actually in a blanket,
(32:42):
which is fascinating to me. Wow, Now I know people think, well,
Lord have mercy, after all these years, would there would
would there be thing left? Yeah? I was actually part
of an excavation when Tom of a Confederate soldier and
the Gull, on his deathbed, gave the confession that him
(33:05):
and his buddies had found it. Had I tell you
the story? Yeah, not a fare, Yeah, told uh. Found
found this Confederate soldier's body in nineteen sixty six with
a World War Two surplus metal detector. They were right
on the edge of the Chickamauga Battlefield in Georgia. And
he said, I didn't want to die with this on
(33:26):
my on my mind. And he said, we found the
remains and they said there were strips of cloth left
a wool gray uniform. They just picked it up and
shook it. Yeah. And now if y'all could see Dave's
face right now, did they not know?
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I mean did they? Did he say they didn't know
it was a body?
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I mean no, hell yeah, they knew it was a
matter of fact. They collected the buttons of belt buckle.
What else did they find? A cartridge box? They didn't
find a weapon. They found like the equivalent of like
a mess kit. There was a spoon, wow? And what
else did they find? Anyway, we got called back out
(34:05):
because this guy was dying and he confessed it to
the sheriff's guy had a terminal illness. I went out
with the state forensic anthropologist. I'll never forget. It was
in Ringold, Georgia. We went up there and Dave, we
went right to the spot.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Yeah, my buddy, that's the anthropologist. Put put trial to
trial and brush to dirt, and within like three scoops
of earth and a couple of brushes, we found skull.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
And it had an oak tree growing, a tiny little
oak tree growing up out of a bullet defect in
the back of the skull. With this, and he was young,
he was only about eighteen. His teeth were perfect. Found
one bit of clothing with him and it was a
whale bone underwear button and that's all we found. Wow,
And they had taken everything else. So you know, that
(34:57):
was a natural fiber that you know, you know, they
didn't have synthetics then. So if you think about a
blanket that you have around the house, Yeah, you can
have pure natural fiber blankets that are around, but let's
face that most of us don't. Most of us have
these synthetic things that are around. And so you wrap
(35:17):
a body in this and synthetics are pretty resilient, man.
They'll last for a protracted period of time. I would
imagine that even even in this state, there's a chance
that you could still make out patterns and colors. Maybe
colors I don't know, but maybe patterns that are left behind.
(35:38):
If you found a tag, it would probably be pretty
well worn. It all depends on how cocooned it was. Now,
if you're talking about a they set three by five. Now,
they didn't give us a cubic dimension here.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
It was.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
They just set three by five. It doesn't give us
an indication. If the hollowed out space with the depth
of the space is five feet long three feet wide,
what's the depth that you're talking about. How protected would
it have been, you know at that point time? And
you know in Beaumont, dude, let me tell you something.
Can you imagine how many times the surrounding area has flooded?
(36:15):
Just living in New Orleans, in South Louisiana a good
portion of my adult life. You could have a storm
that would roll in in and it'd be bone dry outside.
Storm comes in and all of a sudden, you're standing
in two feet of water. It's happened that quickly. I've
had my home flooded where I woke up passed that
on the sofa from working all night, woke up to
(36:36):
the sound of a lapping in my living room. Wow,
where the water was right adjacent to my face. So
that's another fascinating piece to this. You know what was
contained in the blanket, Well, apparently there was enough contained
in there to determine that this was in fact Kimberly's remains.
And once that confirmation had taken place, Dave correct me
(36:56):
if I'm wrong, But Rose Rose rolled over for on
this thing.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Yeah, but yeah, I say, yeah, but okay, he did.
But they were a week away from trial. The reason
we're covering this now is the trial was getting ready
to happen when he finally, after twenty five years, admits,
you know to what has taken place. But even at sentencing, now,
(37:22):
the deal was a forty year prison sentence and he's
sixty eight years old. Now, okay, so it's a Erran
bl for the rest of your life. And when they
were trying to get him to you know, you still
have to allocate, you still have to say what happened,
which is one of the problems that a lot of
us have with coburger with him not being forced to
say what he did, how he did it. And I'm
still mad about that. And in this case, the judge,
(37:46):
Raquel west I was reading the transcript of what took
place and the question that they asked him, you know,
are you pleading guilty because you did what they charged
you with? And he says Terry Rose says sort of.
The judge says, no, we're not playing. Hold on, what
(38:09):
do you not understand, mister Rose? Well, most of it,
but that's okay. The judge says, no, it's not okay,
miss Rose.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
This is not a game.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
He says, I'm not playing a game. She says, well,
we're about to go to trial next week. Okay, she's
had her fill twenty five years. This guy got away
with murder and now he's playing games with the court.
But ultimately, yeah, he admitted it. You know that he
killed her the night that she came by. I mean,
she she wasn't ever missing, she was she always went
(38:40):
to Terry's house and to Terry Rose home, and he
killed her that night.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
And that night yep. And so that's the thing about it,
and that did come out, and you know, that was
that was you know that was bone chilling in that
sense that that night that that fifteen year old daughter Tiffany,
she was looking for her Mama. She wanted to make
(39:07):
contact with her, this new man that she had in
her life. I can only imagine I would not presume
to put myself in her shoes, but probably after having
seen what Mom had gone through with Rose thinking that maybe,
just maybe there was an outside chance that Mama would
come back walking through the door. It wasn't going to happen.
(39:29):
What she didn't realize at that point in Tom is
that very night that Mom didn't show up is actually
the night that she was brutally murdered. I'm Josephcott Morgan,
and this is Bodybags
Quody doctors with Joseph's gotten More.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm of the opinion that there is no such thing
as a god forsake in town. I just I don't
believe in that. I don't think God forsakes places. People
act on places, and they create a culture. Many times.
Sometimes so the environment will create a culture. And it's
(00:27):
kind of like being over in London. You know, if
you're walking around in London and you're complaining about her reigning,
they'll say, well, it's not bad weather, it's poor clothing choices.
And I think that that can be said. That's a
through line fancy Hollywood term there, that's a through line
that you hear many times in life. And listen for
(00:48):
every town that has something bad, there is something good.
And we're going to talk about one such location today,
a place that I'm kind of familiar with called Bama Beaumont, Texas,
And for years and years Beaumont has, you know, held
the title, what was it called the Carcinogen Coast. They were,
(01:10):
you know, the area just outside of Houston and Lake Charles, Louisiana. Uh,
those areas where you had all of the petroleum industry
and chemical factories and all these sorts of things, but
had a lot of cool stuff too. You know, you
had access to some of the best fishing in the world,
old spindle Top. People may have heard of it, that
(01:32):
that fantastic will find back decades and decades ago. It's
made that location, that that area has made a lot
of people wealthy. But there is kind of a darkness
there sometimes. I think you you wait with baited breath
here in hurricane season because in an instant everything that
you have can be gone, and that has happened a
(01:53):
number of times in Beaumont. And don't get me started
about the heat and humidity. But for all of that
good stuff, you've got great food, you've got great places
to visit and go boat riding, and all those sorts
of things. So you do, in fact take the good
with the bad. But today, on bodybacks, I want to
talk to you about a case that's wow started all
(02:16):
the way back in nineteen ninety nine, and it's the
case of a single mother, a single mother who was
raising her child who at the time I think was
probably fourteen or fifteen when she went missing. And all
these years later, she's finally been found identified, and someone
has finally been held responsible.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
For her murder.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks, Dave. I
don't know if you've ever been down I headed westbound
out of Louisiana and going into Texas.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I have not.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
It's an interesting part of the world. It's really fascinating.
You cross over the crossover state line coming out of
Louisiana and the names don't change very much. You know
that area Dine round Lake Charles, in that area. I
have ancestors that settled that area. I had a great
great grandmother that never spoke English, she only spoke Cajun French.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
With all that background, we have in store for us
today the story of Kimberly Langwell, a thirty four year
old single mother of a fifteen year old who has
really been in and out of a rough relationship with
a guy named Terry Rose. They had dated for a while,
(03:39):
but Kimberly had broken up with him after the abuse
got to the point where she was done. You know,
she just couldn't take it anymore, and she actually had
started dating another man and it was a hit. Her
daughter was so happy, you know that she actually was
with this new boyfriend who actually was his name was
(04:01):
kim Weatherford, and he was respectful, he was kind and
treated her mother the way that Tiffany thought mom.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Should be treated.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
So it's with that background that we come into Kimberly
Langwell leaving work, going to run by her old boyfriend's
house to pick something up and then gonna meet Tiffany
and Ken. They're having dinner together that night. They've got
plans for dinner that evening. When Kimberly Langwell does not
(04:32):
show up for these pre arranged dinner plans with her
daughter and new boyfriend, it immediately, immediately Tiffany calls the
cops and we're talking within a couple of hours of
not being able to find her mom. It's nineteen ninety nine.
We did have technology then, we did have cell phones.
A lot of us had them. And anyway, when Tiffany
(04:53):
couldn't get up with her mom, she actually got up
with the police right away and reported her mother missing.
And yeah, first thing they did, well, let's clear the boyfriend,
you know, get the new boyfriend. So I'm getting this
out of the way, so you know that they were
they being the investigators, they were very quickly on this case,
and they very quickly had kim Weatherford and Tiffany, the
(05:15):
daughter and the boyfriend. They're isolated. Okay, they're not the problem.
But where is Kimberly Languell? Where did she go?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Joe? Yeah, because we don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I have no idea. What's fascinating about this is that
first off, for folks that don't understand, this is and
just a reminder, this is July ninth nine.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Dave, Yeah, sorry, Oh no, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I had to reflect back because I had to think
about what was I doing in nineteen ninety nine, and
it was so You're in the dead heat of the
summer there in South Texas, and Kimberly's thirty four years
old at the time, and you know, she's to leave
(06:00):
everything in the in the rear view mirror, you know,
and unfortunately, unfortunately, you know, it's those types of things
many times are hard, you know, to leave in the
rear view mirror. But they they did an exhaustive search
for and Dave, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw out a
business name here that we haven't heard in a long time.
(06:23):
They did find something, oh I know, they found Ecker
her car in the parking lot of in Eckert's Drugs.
My wife and her sister both worked at Eckerd's Drugs. Yeah,
they don't exist anymore. I don't know who gobbled them up.
I'm sure some of our friends probably know the story
to that. But they were everywhere, you know, years and
(06:44):
years ago, all over the South yet Eckers. I don't
know about the rest of the country, but they were
all over the place, and inside of her vehicle, which
was I think like a nineteen ninety four Nissan Altama.
If I'm not mistaken, she was not there. They did not
have signs of that you would that you would commonly
(07:08):
associate with with blood, you know, like violence that took
place inside the cabin of a car, and I can't
remember where did they find were keys and her purse
in there as well? I think yeah, in the car
and she had cell phone.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
That was the way I got to add this to it.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
As long as we're there, because, as I mentioned, when
she didn't show up for the dinner with her daughter
and new boyfriend, her daughter goes to the police because
this is a big deal. And six months before this happened,
Terry Rose actually strangled her. He actually physically strangled Kimberly.
(07:49):
That was the where they and they were already broken
up when that happened. So Tiffany, her fifteen year old daughter,
was concerned about her going to do anything around Terry Rose.
So when she doesn't show up, boom, she's right off
to the cops and they find her car within twenty
four hours. I mean, the actually they found it that night.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
What does it.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Take within the constitution of a fourteen, fifteen year old
girl to be the one that's going to take this
on her shoulders and go and track down the authorities? Yep,
I mean, I guess I would have done it. You know,
at that age, if my mother had been missing, you
probably would have done it. But you know, when you
think about that, you know, to come most of the time,
(08:29):
when we think about people alerting, you know, alerting the police,
search teams, this sort of thing, it's it's generally an adult,
but you have and you know nowadays, you know, I
come across you know, you come across teenagers nowadays, and
even my college students. You speak to them and they
look like you've got three heads coming on of your shoulders,
(08:49):
like you know, you're an idiot. Why are you talking
to me, oh yeah, but to.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Have it doesn't happen. It happens every minute of the day.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Go to a grocery store that has a clerk that's
still in high school and when you you know, you're
trying to get their attention to pay for something because
they're on their phone and talking to somebody else. Hey
can you check the price on this? And it's like
are you speaking English? Yes, but hey, I do want
to add something. You know, I'm in the car. Okay,
Her purse and keys were missing. Her cell phone was
(09:20):
in the car. Cell phone was in the car. Okay,
So you've got her cell phone in the car, but
her purse and keys are missing. So you've got the
car that has parked at the Eckert's parking lot. And
you would think if you're taking your person your keys
with you, you take your cell phone. You know they go
cand in hand, right.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, they kind of do. And did she you know,
here's a big quick investigative question. Well, in order to
get the car there. In order to get the car there,
it's not like nowadays. You know, those keys those cars
back then were not electronically keyed. These are keys you
had to place into the ignition more time. You know,
I'm talking about using an ignition as if it's something
(10:03):
from the olden days. But you know, taking a key
and inserting it into an ignition and turning it and
they're both gone, you know. Nowadays, you know, I know,
people will just you know, they'll have their keys in
their purse or in their pocket or whatever, and you
just press the button in the car and the car
turns over, you know, and you can just leave, exit
(10:23):
the vehicle and your keys go with you. But back then,
you know, she it wasn't like she would have left
them in the ignition, so the keys had to be
removed from the ignition and either gathered with the purse
or dropped into into the purse. Here's the question though,
why was her cell phone still in there?
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Right?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
You know? Why why did that occur? And we granted
we had technology back then to day, but it wasn't
as the tracking wasn't as sophisticated back then as it
is now. What wouldn't even approach it, you know, to
what we have nowadays.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I'm amazed how much has changed in the last ten years. Yeah,
just in the last ten years of where we were
in twenty fifteen versus where we are today, you know,
and now you're talking, you know, twenty five years ago,
and it was you know again not the dark ages
or anything by that. But still her cell phone was
left in the vehicle, her person keys are gone. So
(11:21):
to those looking at it, they said, the investigator said,
it suggested to them that there was a struggle, an abduction,
even but nothing was obviously broken, and there was no
sign of blood. So in their mind's eye, her purse
and keys going but her phone staying behind indicated something
(11:41):
to law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, and you know, unlike today as well, I think
that we would be the police would be so compelled,
just from a professional standpoint, if you had a vehicle
with a known owner that is missing, the entire the
entirety of the interior of that car would have been swabbed, Dave,
(12:05):
it would have been swabbed for those things that we
can't see. You know, you look back then, you know,
you look around for signs of struggle, you look for
blood deposition. But you know, at the molecular level, there
was no way we could have even begun back then
to think that we could swab for perhaps touch DNA.
The answers to Kimberly's location would have to rely on
(12:29):
something else, and again that wouldn't happen for years and
years to come. You know. Most of the time, Dave
(12:51):
with the reason cases go cold and I'll bang the
drum forever and ever is not necessarily the fault of
the police. It's just not. It's the reality of you
don't develop new leads and you have more cases that
are piling on on and on and on and on,
and sooner or later, that little light that was kind
(13:15):
of flashing, you know over this case that is unsolved,
is diminished. It's dimmed, you know, however you want to
say it. It's no longer viable. And what happened in
was it twenty fourteen? It was actually they that's you
know when you think about how many years later.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
That yes, when you sent this to me and I
was looking at it because you know, whenever you have
a missing person and I think about where I like
the first thing you did, where was I? In July
of nineteen ninety nine, where was I?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
What was I doing?
Speaker 3 (13:48):
And if you remember, it was why two K? We
were all preparing for Y two K because the world
was going to stop at Why two k you needed
to buy a generator in your dry food and all that.
That's all you're stockpiling back then.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Remember, Oh yeah, I remember it very well.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Of weird stuff going on. But fifteen years go by
and there's no sign of her. Her once fifteen year
old teenage daughter, Tiffany is now an adult. She's a
thirty year old adult and does not know what happened
to her mother. And because it happened so fast, gone
in the blink of an eye, there was little that
(14:22):
could be done, Joe. After they did the basic look around,
they didn't have anything. And I wonder, I don't know
what evidence they had or didn't have, but I know this.
They didn't have enough evidence to go look at Terry
Rose's house, you know. No, even though that was the
last known location she was going to be, even though
(14:43):
they knew that there had been violence in that relationship previously,
they could not develop enough evidence to take it in
front of a judge and say we.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Need to go to search this guy's house.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah. You know, that's a fascinating point, David. I really
wonder how hard they pressed him. Yeah, at that moment
in Tom. The one other thing that I will tell
you about Beaumont is that Beaumont is not all rainbows
and unicorns. It has its share of crime and has
(15:13):
for years and years. It is a busy place. And
I wonder, I wonder what happened in those initial meetings
with Rose, you know, when they go to talk to him.
Did were there any suspicions raised at that point in time?
(15:34):
Here's the other thing. Could the detectives develop any substance
of information at that moment in time to get a
search warrant at his house? Because you don't have a body.
This is the problem. Obviously, you don't have a body.
You don't have even have any evidence that some kind
of traumatic event has occurred. All you know is that
(15:57):
you've got this scal's car, that the person the per versus, missing,
keys are missing, cell phone's there, and the car is there,
and it's just parked in a parking lot outside of
a drug store. Where do you go from there to
try to develop information? And in this particular case, it
would seem as though that they didn't have a lot
(16:18):
to hang their hat on legally, because if they were
able to see him. Here's one interesting thing I think, Dave,
remember what you said earlier about his violence toward her.
He tried to choke her and one thing. And I'm
(16:39):
not please understanding hearing right. I'm not trying to Monday
Morning quarterback the cops. I'm just wondering if that's the
modality that he had chosen earlier and they had awareness
of that. I wonder how well they looked at his hands.
I wonder how well they looked at his face or
his neck to see if there were any scratch marks,
if there was any bruising anything left behind on him.
(17:02):
This would have been in the summer months, so he
wouldn't probably have been wearing long sleeve shirts. There used
to be an old adage, if somebody shows up to
be interviewed by the police officers in the debt of
summer and they're wearing an overcoat, make sure that they
take the overcoat off or sweater or sweatshirt or anything
like that, because you want to be able to see
(17:26):
see their arms and hands. They're trying to mask something.
So they couldn't even develop anything then. And I'm thinking
back now, Wow, just think if they had actually developed
some information there, Dave, you would not be fighting against
the patina that sets in with time, how things change
(17:48):
over a period of time where those things that would
have looked fresh in those moments early on and had
not been yet subjected to say, environmental changes or whatever
the case might be, structural changes, it would still appear
like it would be glaring when you see it. But
you know, as as it turns out, and we're going
(18:10):
to tell that story, Joe.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
You know, we mentioned this a minute ago about after
fifteen years, they had a prayer vigil to bring awareness
to her case in twenty fourteen. They did it on
July ninth, twenty fourteen. As I was researching this case,
you know, just from the media standpoint, I want to
see what they were reporting, because you know, you've got
a very sympathetic figure.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
A single mom.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, thirty four years old goes missing and never heard
from again, and they don't have a break in the case,
not anything.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, her fifteen year old daughter's taking point on it.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Yeah, that's ano fifteen years go by and they have
actually have a prayer vigil. And by the way, it
wasn't just for Kimberly Languall.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
It was for other.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Crimes that had not been solved against women. But she
was the main focus. So they did it on July ninth,
on that anniversary date, but nothing was found.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Joe.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
And so.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
The reason we're covering this now is because in twenty
twenty four, it took until twenty twenty four before there
was a break in this case. The break in this
case happened with what is called a reliable informant. Now,
(19:20):
a reliable informant is somebody who has had contact with
law enforcement.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Usually he or she has been arrested.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Has actually fallen down the rabbit hole a couple of times,
and in order to get out of trouble, he or
she has given information to police that turned out to
be true and that's how they got out of the
trouble they were in, or lessened the punishment.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
That they would receive, Yeah, that they would have received otherwise. Yeah,
So they could.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Have been an uncover paid informant too.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, any number of things. But usually somebody doesn't just
one day leave their job as an accountant and call
the police and say, I'd like to be an informant
for you guys, what do you need?
Speaker 1 (20:05):
You know, it's usually somebody who.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Gets busted for you know something, you know, a drug
related defense or whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I go hang out in a biker bar every single night.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
There you go. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna
help you.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's the person you don't want
involved in this.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
So the finder is so key. That's why Joseph Scott
Morgan has taught me the finder of the Lord the key.
Every time I see a finder, that's the person I'm
looking at every time.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, And it's and it won't necessarily be in every
obvious and obviously every single case that is going to
be the finder. However, it's the best. It's the best
bit of data that you have to be in your face, right.
It's it's that proverbial thread that you're going to pull fainting.
And in this particular case, when it comes to Kimberly,
(20:59):
you have to begin to think, well, is this a
big break that we wanted to have those prayers that
have been offered up now ten years prior to at
that prayer vigil. Is there a crack? Is there an
indication that maybe an answer is on the way, or
maybe just maybe is somebody going to wind up behind bars?
(21:37):
I hate tight spaces, Dave. I hate working in them.
As a matter of fact, I think that it goes
back to I know that it does back to the
stuff I've dealt with mentally and emotionally and all that
sort of stuff from years and years ago. Is that
residue that kind of hangs on me? Do you know
that I cannot And I know I've mentioned it before,
(21:57):
but if my son or my wife comes into the
bathroom and they stand between me and the door and
my skin starts to crawl, I can't can't, I can't
take it. I have to get out of the room.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I try not.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I try to tamp it down, you know, but it's
just one of those things where I can't stand being
hemmed in at all.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Okay, now here's my question for you. I actually made
a note to ask you this. Okay, all right, we've
gone all this time. It's April twenty twenty four. Kimberly
went missing July of nineteen ninety nine. There's been nothing.
There has been nothing, zilch nod of We don't. She
just vanished and all of a sudden. This reliable informant
(22:41):
tells police that Langwell's ex boyfriend Terry Rose, admitted that
she was murdered inside his home the same day she
went missing and was buried on the property. Now, based
on the informant information, Joseph Scott Morgan detectives obtained an
(23:02):
evidentiary search warrant for Roses residents and properties. Yeah, when
they get out there on the property, you're talking about
somebody who has been dead for twenty five years. What
are you really looking for? And if they're buried on
the property, what are you looking for after twenty five years.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Well, it's hard to find anything after that period of
time because the topography out there has If you're talking
about a dirt space, you know, in a yard, just
think about your own yard. A lot of that stuff
is reintegrated by that point in tom Okay, Like you're
not going to have like if you go out onto
a scene, if you go out onto a scene that's
(23:42):
a fresh burial, right, you'll see vegetation that's disrupted. As
a matter of fact, you know, you'll see when perpetrators
bury bodies, you will find entire bits of plants that
are inverted and the roots are sticking up out of
the ground and the green leafy stuff is down, okay,
and it's it's so glaring you know, I mean you
(24:05):
you know, if you got there with the suspicion that
somebody's buried, it stands out. But Dave, they searched property,
didn't find anything. And what was fascinating about this case
is that, yeah, they searched outside of the home and
called no joy there was nothing out there. However, the
(24:28):
this is what I was getting through a minute ago
about being in closed space. It turns out that ground
penetrating radar had revealed that beneath the floor of the home,
which sounds like a crawl space, there was a big
area where there was no metal support. There was nothing
(24:51):
beneath the floorboards. But as it shot down you could
see that there was like an almost five y three
space that was hollowed out in the ground beneath beneath
Rose's bedroom. And so you know it that's going to
(25:12):
stand out, you know, with the GPR, when you're you're
rolling over an area, it's going to really strike like
you would. It's one of the things that people are
really attuned to. They use these a lot in forensic
anthropology programs to train the students. A matter of fact,
we're trying to get our hands on one at Jack
(25:33):
State to help our students, you know, understand how how
one works. It's so glaring to people that that utilize
these things all the time. They can read the topography
and they can read the read out on the screen
as it it begins to paint this picture. And they
used to do these big, you know, big print outs.
(25:56):
You know that you would go back and look over.
I'm sure a lot of stuff is more in real
time now than it used to be, but you'll see
these changes in the soil that you have. How if
it's if there's a depression there sometimes dependent upon if
there's not a lot of interference, you can actually make
(26:17):
out the outline dave of human remains like you can
you can appreciate a skull. I've often compared it to
do you remember going to see an ultrasound of a
child where the technician is sitting there and they're saying, yeah,
see right here, and I'm thinking, what I don't see it.
(26:40):
It's kind of like going to an autopsy. You know,
people that aren't used to being in that environment. When
you open up you know, the chest and the abdomen
you're looking and I see it, and it will be
so glaring to me. But people are like, what are
you looking at? Everything looks the same to me, and
it takes time to read it. I think that that
translate translates to a lot of air areas in our life.
(27:01):
But when they saw this Dave beneath his bedroom floor
and that's something I want to get to. And they
began to examine the floor, you could see apparently where
a huge area of the floor had actually been cut away, wow,
and had been replaced in this area. And when the
(27:25):
authorities got out there and began to dig about, they
actually found blanketed remains that were stuffed down in this hole.
Now I know I've got my questions here because I'm
always fascinated. I'm always fascinated by individuals that are perpetrators
(27:49):
that will kill someone and then hang on to the remains.
And I've always felt I don't know how you feel
about this, I'd love to hear your opinion, but I've
always felt as though that it's a control issue relative
to access an opportunity. You know who's going to have
acts if you have possession over the body, Okay, no
(28:10):
one else is going to have right access to it. However,
if they get a search warrant. Yeah, and come to
your house. You're really rolling the dice, don't you think.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
You know?
Speaker 3 (28:19):
We had this discussion and in a current case with
the D four VD and Celeste in California, because of
her body being found in a car that registered to
Hindo was parked outside his house and had been moved,
but it was always right there along the street, and
we talked about it. Then why would you keep this
so close to home? Well, we have a number of
(28:40):
cases like that, and in this particular case, here's my
quag Joe.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
The guy.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Buries her under his house, under his bedroom, and my
only thinking is, Okay, you've done the deed. Nobody saw
you do it. Because it happened inside your home, and
they come looking inside your home, they're not going to
find it. They're not going to find her. And as
long as he is in that home, nobody else is
(29:07):
going to have access to this spot. Now, if he
were to sell the home, somebody else has it. If
he were to take her and bury her body somewhere
out in the desert or whatever is around Beaumont, you know,
then somebody else could have access.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
But swamp, Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
But burying her underneath his bed. Hey, you know what,
the only person that's going to get in there is
somebody you either let in or finds the way to
do it. Which is why I'm bothered that you have
a man who had been in a relationship with Kimberly
up until six months previously or further back than that,
because they were broken up when he tried strangling her
(29:42):
in January of nineteen ninety nine, and you've got.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Records of this.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
How did they not have the ability to stand in
front of a judge and say, you know, because that's
what with a search warrant. You actually have to present
your report of what you expect to find, where you
expect to find it, and why, and a judge looks
at it, and again, this is constitutional. Friends, you cannot
please it can't just come to my house and say
we hate Dave Mac we're going to find our ways
(30:08):
and you get in his house and look for something.
They can't go on a fishing expedition.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
No, I can't, and you have to. And one other
thing people don't realize is that you have to state
what you're looking for, and you also have to stay
where you're going to be looking for these items. And
I love the fact that you mentioned the term fishing,
fishing expedition. I find it. It's kind of fascinating to me.
(30:32):
I really wonder if when they started searching the home,
if like a bolt, you know, the cops looked at
the floor and they're like, what the hell is this?
Why does this look like this? You know, we've got
this reliable person, and here's one more thing. I want
to know. Who does this and then runs their mouth
(30:54):
to somebody about it?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Well, you know what, there are a number of convicted
felons sitting in prison right now, some even on death
row that got away with it until they told somebody else.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
You know.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
In this particular case, show Tim Miller with Texas Equisearch. Tim,
he was actually using the sonar, the side scan sonar
and everything else they use for that, I mean, the
ground penetrating sonar, right, Yeah, and with him before many times, Nancy, Yeah, yeah,
many many times. I loved him. He's a nice man.
But anyway, I've read some of his comments about this,
(31:27):
you know, and it was fascinating to me that early reports,
you know, because the press was all over this when
it came out that they were digging, they were out
of the house. First report was that a body was
found under the driveway in the front yard, and that's
what the press had and ran with.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Oh, look there's a picture. I saw their picture of
the e r T. The FBI e r T out there. Yeah,
and they busted up the concrete and it's like chunks,
chunks of concrete lay all over the place. Man, what
a disappointment that must be.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
You know about it?
Speaker 3 (32:05):
If that's what you're reliable in air quotes, you know,
person told you that that's where you would find the body.
I mean, what, but did they find something out there?
Was the body buried underneath the driveway and then moved?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Good question?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
But God, that seems like a lot of trouble to
have to go to because you would have to encase
it in concrete cement and then crack that open, take
the body out, and then bring it in. Now is
it possible you could have wrapped the body because when
they found her body, Dave, she was actually in a blanket,
(32:42):
which is fascinating to me. Wow, Now I know people think, well,
Lord have mercy, after all these years, would there would
would there be thing left? Yeah? I was actually part
of an excavation when Tom of a Confederate soldier and
the Gull, on his deathbed, gave the confession that him
(33:05):
and his buddies had found it. Had I tell you
the story? Yeah, not a fare, Yeah, told uh. Found
found this Confederate soldier's body in nineteen sixty six with
a World War Two surplus metal detector. They were right
on the edge of the Chickamauga Battlefield in Georgia. And
he said, I didn't want to die with this on
(33:26):
my on my mind. And he said, we found the
remains and they said there were strips of cloth left
a wool gray uniform. They just picked it up and
shook it. Yeah. And now if y'all could see Dave's
face right now, did they not know?
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I mean did they? Did he say they didn't know
it was a body?
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I mean no, hell yeah, they knew it was a
matter of fact. They collected the buttons of belt buckle.
What else did they find? A cartridge box? They didn't
find a weapon. They found like the equivalent of like
a mess kit. There was a spoon, wow? And what
else did they find? Anyway, we got called back out
(34:05):
because this guy was dying and he confessed it to
the sheriff's guy had a terminal illness. I went out
with the state forensic anthropologist. I'll never forget. It was
in Ringold, Georgia. We went up there and Dave, we
went right to the spot.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Yeah, my buddy, that's the anthropologist. Put put trial to
trial and brush to dirt, and within like three scoops
of earth and a couple of brushes, we found skull.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
And it had an oak tree growing, a tiny little
oak tree growing up out of a bullet defect in
the back of the skull. With this, and he was young,
he was only about eighteen. His teeth were perfect. Found
one bit of clothing with him and it was a
whale bone underwear button and that's all we found. Wow,
And they had taken everything else. So you know, that
(34:57):
was a natural fiber that you know, you know, they
didn't have synthetics then. So if you think about a
blanket that you have around the house, Yeah, you can
have pure natural fiber blankets that are around, but let's
face that most of us don't. Most of us have
these synthetic things that are around. And so you wrap
(35:17):
a body in this and synthetics are pretty resilient, man.
They'll last for a protracted period of time. I would
imagine that even even in this state, there's a chance
that you could still make out patterns and colors. Maybe
colors I don't know, but maybe patterns that are left behind.
(35:38):
If you found a tag, it would probably be pretty
well worn. It all depends on how cocooned it was. Now,
if you're talking about a they set three by five. Now,
they didn't give us a cubic dimension here.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
It was.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
They just set three by five. It doesn't give us
an indication. If the hollowed out space with the depth
of the space is five feet long three feet wide,
what's the depth that you're talking about. How protected would
it have been, you know at that point time? And
you know in Beaumont, dude, let me tell you something.
Can you imagine how many times the surrounding area has flooded?
(36:15):
Just living in New Orleans, in South Louisiana a good
portion of my adult life. You could have a storm
that would roll in in and it'd be bone dry outside.
Storm comes in and all of a sudden, you're standing
in two feet of water. It's happened that quickly. I've
had my home flooded where I woke up passed that
on the sofa from working all night, woke up to
(36:36):
the sound of a lapping in my living room. Wow,
where the water was right adjacent to my face. So
that's another fascinating piece to this. You know what was
contained in the blanket, Well, apparently there was enough contained
in there to determine that this was in fact Kimberly's remains.
And once that confirmation had taken place, Dave correct me
(36:56):
if I'm wrong, But Rose Rose rolled over for on
this thing.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Yeah, but yeah, I say, yeah, but okay, he did.
But they were a week away from trial. The reason
we're covering this now is the trial was getting ready
to happen when he finally, after twenty five years, admits,
you know to what has taken place. But even at sentencing, now,
(37:22):
the deal was a forty year prison sentence and he's
sixty eight years old. Now, okay, so it's a Erran
bl for the rest of your life. And when they
were trying to get him to you know, you still
have to allocate, you still have to say what happened,
which is one of the problems that a lot of
us have with coburger with him not being forced to
say what he did, how he did it. And I'm
still mad about that. And in this case, the judge,
(37:46):
Raquel west I was reading the transcript of what took
place and the question that they asked him, you know,
are you pleading guilty because you did what they charged
you with? And he says Terry Rose says sort of.
The judge says, no, we're not playing. Hold on, what
(38:09):
do you not understand, mister Rose? Well, most of it,
but that's okay. The judge says, no, it's not okay,
miss Rose.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
This is not a game.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
He says, I'm not playing a game. She says, well,
we're about to go to trial next week. Okay, she's
had her fill twenty five years. This guy got away
with murder and now he's playing games with the court.
But ultimately, yeah, he admitted it. You know that he
killed her the night that she came by. I mean,
she she wasn't ever missing, she was she always went
(38:40):
to Terry's house and to Terry Rose home, and he
killed her that night.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
And that night yep. And so that's the thing about it,
and that did come out, and you know, that was
that was you know that was bone chilling in that
sense that that night that that fifteen year old daughter Tiffany,
she was looking for her Mama. She wanted to make
(39:07):
contact with her, this new man that she had in
her life. I can only imagine I would not presume
to put myself in her shoes, but probably after having
seen what Mom had gone through with Rose thinking that maybe,
just maybe there was an outside chance that Mama would
come back walking through the door. It wasn't going to happen.
(39:29):
What she didn't realize at that point in Tom is
that very night that Mom didn't show up is actually
the night that she was brutally murdered. I'm Josephcott Morgan,
and this is Bodybags
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
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