December 31, 2025 • 48 mins
Taking a look at the top 10 most downloaded episodes of "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" for 2025. Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack take a look at the top show from 2025 starting with the 10th most downloaded episode and counting down to number 5. Number 10. Decker Found? Bones Recovered in 100 Day search. 9. Missing Wife Body Parts Found In Woods, Ex Navy Jag Husband Accused. 8. Ghastly New Info On Idaho College Murders Leaked To Public. 7. UPDATE! Baby Decapitated DURING Birth! Jury Awards Parents $2 Million. 6. FBI DNA SHOCKER! Police Bodycam, Screaming on Stairs, Kohberger Case Continues. 5. Horrifying Details: Decker Sisters Deaths-Bags on Heads, Hands Zip tied, Bloody Handprint!
Transcribe Highlights
00:00.00 Introduction - End of 2025
05:06.97 Travis Decker campsite
10:00.70 Skeletal remains, animal or human
15:07.54 Human Remains of Mindi Kassotis
20:35.83 Kohberger leaks on Dateline
25:12.57 Victims of Kohberger
30:15.96 Baby Decapitated
35:12.31 Kohberger - Mortensen interview
40:04.38 Privacy and DNA Search
44:58.27 Decker children, zip tied and suffocated
48:34.58 Conclusion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Body Bus, but Joseph's gotten more well. Here we are.
We've come to the end of another year, twenty twenty five,
and for some unfortunately this past year it was literally
the end. And we have done the best that we
(00:21):
can over this past year to cover these cases. And
for me personally and on behalf of brother Dave Mac,
thank you. Thank you to all of my friends that
have listened faithfully and that have shared and commented and
made request along the way. It's certainly been an adventure,
(00:44):
I'd have to say that. But we're going to do
a little bit something different this time. I want to
take this opportunity to talk about the top ten most
downloaded cases that we have covered this year twenty twenty
five on Bodybacks. So without further ado, we're going to
(01:08):
enter in to ten through five. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan
and this is Bodybacks Dave. Starting out, we didn't really
know where this year was going to go. We had
some indication, because Lord have mercy, I know, coming out
(01:32):
of twenty twenty four we did have some big cases
that were on the horizon, and I think that probably
our top ten is reflective of that. But I got
to say we had a few surprises along the way.
You have pointed this out to me, and I was surprised.
I was actually surprised, but kind of as pleasant as
(01:55):
things can be in the world that you and I
and habit. I was pleasantly surprised because it's a wide
variety of cases to a certain degree, but you know,
we can you can kind of predict, you know, what
direction things are trending, I think, and where people's interests are.
But certainly for us it was I'd say it was
a fruitful year.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
It's a shocking list, you know. I was actually really
surprised by it. And you know, Joe, this past year
has been man, it's been a crazy year.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
It really has.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
And this time last year, when we were looking ahead,
I could not have predicted at all that I would
end up this year the way I did personally and professionally.
How we It's just amazing to me. And you know what,
what's really cool In a couple of weeks, In a
(02:49):
couple of weeks, you are going to be in Atlanta
with the Cheryl McCollum. We're actually been invited to join
a tour, and not just as I mean with body
bags of j Justseph Scott Morgan. I mean, you're the
most sought after person in forensics. It's amazing that that
the turnout expected for this thing and tickets are going
(03:11):
are gone. But I'm just I'm amazed, surprised at what
is in store.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, the I am. And we're on this journey together. Brother.
It's going to be fun and and we'll have more
details coming out. I'll push stuff out about Dave and
I will be there together, I can promise you. And literally,
you've heard of the podcast Zone seven. We're literally going
to be at the place the namesake of Zone seven,
(03:42):
which is Manual's Tavern in Atlanta, and so that's where
the name actually originated. And we're going to be there
celebrating with our friend Cheryl, and I'll give it to you.
I'll just say this much. Probably a surprise appearance to
by somebody that you you may or may not have
heard of. But we'll we'll see how that goes well.
But anyway, let's let's hop right into our list here. Dave.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
All right, Joe, Look, when I was breaking these down,
I was shocked that Travis Decker showed up in the
top ten. Okay, now shocked not because it was because
I didn't realize how big this story is. You and
I cover so many stories and sometimes we really get
(04:27):
buried in the weeds. But Joseph Scott Morgan, Travis Decker
shows up twice on this list of the top ten
most downloaded shows of the year, and starting right off
the back and right off the bat Rather, when we
had the announcement several times that Travis Decker had been found,
you know, accused of murdering his daughters in the campground
(04:49):
that he was living in. Remember, it wasn't just he's
a camper. Now they've made it out like this guy
was freaking iron man living in the woods, you know,
and a survivalist who could eat a pine tree faster
than you'll givens, you know. And they had him made
out to be this Grizzly Adams type survivalist. And yet
you know, you go to the campsite where this homeless
(05:11):
bet was living and it's a trash bag of Dollar
General bags, you know. And but what was found there
was disgusting and shocking, Yeah, and sick. How does a
person who calls himself a man do this to children
much like his own?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, and that I think that the fact that you
know that you emphasized that day relative to what had
been done to these these little angels, it goes to
I think, probably to a certain extent. I hate to
use terms like the fear that gripped the nation, but
there were certainly, and certainly in that area of the country,
(05:53):
there were people, I think, given this narrative that had
been put out about him as a survivalist, he's a veteran,
there was some concern about people that lived up because
in this particular area of the country, it's very isolated,
right and when you look at it and you think
this guy has nothing left to lose, and it's there,
(06:14):
you're out there with him, or he's in your space
potentially in his mono and mono, what are you going
to do if you come across this guy? And so look,
they were looking for this guy all over the Northwest,
particularly focused I think all the way up in that
northern stem of Idaho. They even contemplated that he had
maybe had made his way across the border into Canada,
(06:38):
and everybody was kind of waiting. You know, we would
get these updates periodically, you know, through the news, we'd
see things of course, with your sources, you know, you
would get little scraps of things that would come through,
but there was nothing really that you could hang your
hat on. And here's something else. You know, you talk
about the disorder of this world that he lived in there,
(06:59):
and I think that that goes to this tracking of him.
There was no specific order. There was kind of and
I'm not going to say that he's unpredictable like in
a cagey Fox kind of way. He's unpredictable in the
sense that this goes to his mindset. This guy is
mentally disturbed. He's a erratic, he's a ratic, he's all
(07:22):
over the board. And of course, as it turned out,
as it turned out, they you know, this guy is
found well in pieces.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Say that was this episode see the story, and I
should have probably clarified. You know, Travis Decker and his
ex wife had had custodial issues and it was because
of Travis Decker's life choices and how he lived. And
he did not return with the girls as expected after
a custodial visit, and so they were on his trail
right away. And that was one of the shocking parts
about the story is it wasn't like they started a
(07:56):
week behind. They started the day he was late, and
they were able to find the girls' bodies very soon,
within a matter of days. But Travis Decker was one
that could not find. And I remember as we were
looking for this, there were a number of stories of
you know, bones are found here, and I remember you
talking about how many times bones are found in the woods,
(08:17):
because well, animals die in the woods and their bones
are there in the woods, and you know, there's.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
An interesting little piece to that, you know, when you
live out in the woods. I found myself. We lived
up in the North Georgia Mountains for a long time,
for about a decade, up in the southern part of
the Blue Rich Mountains, and there were these beautiful rivers
and streams up there, and I remember going to campsites
and Kim and I would just take the kids out
there and we would picnic and it's beautiful. You know
(08:47):
what I did most of the time when I was
out there, just taking in the beauty. I had a
fascination with hemlock trees because they grow up there adjacent
to bodies of water, and they're unique. Yeah, that's hemlock,
the same hemlock that was, you know, drank famously all
those all those centuries ago, and uh, you see the
(09:09):
beautiful sky, you see the mountains. You know what I
never really did. I never really looked down at the ground.
Oh wow. I think that a lot of people, a
lot of people think, well, it's it's kind of weird
that you would, you know, that you would find these bones. Well, no,
it's not. The bones are there because animals. Animals die,
you know, not every not every animal that dies out
(09:31):
in the wood is some kind of trauma related event.
Sometimes animals just get old, just like all creatures do,
and you finally die. And people don't normally look down
at the ground, so, you know, and so you will
find things. When people do look down, they find these,
you know, these kind of remains that are skeletal remains
that are left behind, and they average Joe citizen doesn't
(09:53):
know the difference between the fore leg of a deer,
which would be the deer fiend, and a human. Yeah,
and most people don't. And I'm glad that most people don't,
you know, but it's a world that we Endwell, that's
why it's so important in the Travis Deker case that
you actually had a team of forensic anthropologists that examined
(10:16):
these remains and clarify it because you know at the
end of the day with the decor case that that
final door is closed on this horrific chapter, and it
can only be finally closed with a confirmation of who
he was.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Isn't that crazy Joe that they couldn't even do an
autopsy because they never found his story. So they never
found his head.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
No, they didn't. And you're talking one hundred days now,
range and the idea that you're absent these elements is
not surprising. You know, we talk about we talk about
all kinds of things when it comes to skeletal remains,
even if even in a wet environment like this, when
(11:03):
you have scavenger activity that disarticulates bones. Did you know
that hydrology plays into this as well. If you get
a big rainstorm and the remains are sitting on a hill, Oh,
you can actually have you can actually have a skull
that will roll away, You can have long bones that
will wash with Certainly the smaller elements will wash away
in your absence. Doesn't necessarily mean that someone has decapitated
(11:26):
someone and run off into the darkness with their head.
So yeah, and so you have to confirm it. And
of course they were able to do this confirmation and
they wound up doing the confirmation through DNA.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Now, Joe, we started with Travis Decker at number ten.
Our number nine most downloaded show was also Back in
the Woods and a body being dumped. It's a human
remains found scattered on a Georgia hunting club property in
November of twenty twenty two. The remains were found in
a three mile area covering two different counties, and investigators
(12:01):
had to reach out to the public for help. And
I've got a couple of questions for you about this
as an investigator. I know that your world, that what
you do as an investigator is different than what law
enforcement does because they do have specific lines they can't
cross geographically speaking. Correct.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yes, yeah, you're right, And you know, many times, many
times you hear this term. It's thrown around a lot
in the news media where a task course has been formed.
Of course, you know, in an area like Georgia, you
have cooperation most of the time between neighboring sheriff's offices
and that's who would you know, kind of take the
(12:42):
lead wherever the first remains are found. However, you're going
to need kind of this overarching organization, Like in the
case of Georgia, they have the GBI Georgia Bureau of
Investigation that can send teams out there, but they have
to be invited to come there. All right, Okay, it's not.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Like call up and say, hey, I'm with the FBI
and we're taking over. I'm with the e I we're
taking over.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
No, it has to be something if they're going to
do that, it has to be something that there's a
statutory requirement or obligation where that particular state agency or
federal agency takes charge. What it comes down to is
keeping local control if you've got homicide in your area.
(13:26):
And I know this because even in Atlanta, you believe this.
When I was in Atlanta, there were things that the
Atlanta Police Department just could not handle and they would
call the GBI. The GBI and of course there were yeah,
and there were actually some personnel issues too, But there's
another time and place for that discussion that they would, yeah,
(13:49):
that they would want to call in, you know, they
would want to call in the GBI to work these things.
And so in this case, you're going to have kind
of an overarching But what's fascinating about this case is
at number nine is the fact that these remains are
scattered over a multi county area.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Dave right, and we're talking about the case of Mindy
Kosotis and her husband Nicholas Casotis. Now, I've read so
many things about this couple now that it's a very
confusing story. But when we were covering it, here was
the headline, missing wife body parts found in woods. Ex
(14:34):
Navy jag husband accused. We had this story from Nicholas
Casotis that they were being they were in trouble, and
they were being followed and they were having to hide
out because they were being controlled by a man who
(14:54):
was threatening them with their lives and they were on
the run for their own safety and block blah blah.
This guy created an entire world time, Nicholas gas And
so when his wife goes missing, he's trying to blame
it on this phantom person, you know, and they couldn't
find her at first. And then when body parts starts
showing up in Georgia in multiple counties, well, now you've
(15:17):
got the body or well parts of the body, and
as you mentioned, having several different agencies involved. It gets
a little fugly at that point.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
And yeah, you're right, and he's listen, this guy. The
interesting thing about it, Yeah, he had been a part
of JAG in the Navy. And I think that the
thing that's so disarming about this is you think that,
you know, an auscter and gentleman. You think that he
is going to be this kind of well anchored guy
that has a very strong moral compass and that. But
(15:50):
he could not be further from that tempo. Did you
know that that leading up to these fatal events, these
people had moved close to fifty times times uh in
just a few years. And anytime I've ever been associated
with a case in the past, uh, and people have
moved that much because even okay, let's just say that
(16:12):
even if you are tied to some big industry, you're
some kind of corporate head, or if you're in the military,
you're not going to move this much in a very
short period of time. Fifty That means that you're running
from something. And of course, you know Casoda's had had
kind of woven Uh. He's he's a you know, he's
a flim flam guy, is what it comes down. To
(16:35):
and a great deceiver is a pathological liar. And I
think that probably when the authorities, you know, finally got
wind of of her, you know, her absent, her being
absent in you know, in the in the current context
of life, immediately they're going to smell a rat with
this guy, Dave.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
And it started with the finding of her head, I believe,
at a hunting range, a hunting lodge area. And I'm
gonna be honest, Joe, if you and I were out
with some friends hunting, you know, just having a hunting weekend,
right finding a human head, that would mess with your
weekend pretty bad, you know. And I'm being flipping, But
(17:18):
when you get right down to it, Joe, that's just
not an everyday occurrence to find a human head. Whether
it's a skull or hair on, I don't know, but
I would be freaking out. I would lose my cookies
if I saw something like that.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah, you would. And there are a number of cases.
Dogs are very fascinating to me. I know that sounds
really out of the blue and kind of arbitrary me
saying that suddenly, but go with me here. Do you
know I've had more cases that I've been involved with
as an investigator with bodies that have either been post
wartem disarticulated as a result of decomposition or dismemberment. Where
(17:54):
a dog will come walking up with a head and
it's kind of weird. Yeah, dogs are fascinated and you know,
you and I both are. We're keen of the dog lovers.
You know. It's like there's certain people I don't care
if you do harm to them. Don't don't. Don't hurt
a dog around me. It's just not my thing. Man.
(18:16):
You know, we rescue. You and I both rescue dogs.
And the one thing you know about dog behaviors they
love to play, most of them do, and with human
heads in particular. And I could tell you some really
wild stories of uh involving this. Maybe, well maybe we'll
do a whole segment sometime about wild stories from Morgan's past. Really, Uh,
(18:38):
look what the yeah, look what the dog drug in? Uh.
Dogs will walk up into a into their back home
with a head. And there's a number of accounts of
dogs having heads between their their forepaws and and chewing
on a head, chewing on a skull, or batting and
around Dave on the ball like a ball and they'll
do that and they'll get down. I love to see
(19:00):
dogs when they will get down and they'll put their
their rear end up in the air, you know, and
they kind of you know, look at it and their
their bent at the front, you know, and their tails
are wagging and they don't know any different, you know.
But yeah, so the head is actually found found in
this case. And yeah, if you if you happen to
come across a human head, even if you're some kind
(19:23):
of rough and tumble hunter and you're out on property
and you're going, this is something that's going to give
you pause. And generally consistently you hear this from people. Uh,
and I've done it myself, but people will say, wait,
hang on, I got to take a look at this again.
Did I just see what I thought I saw? Because
(19:43):
you don't. You can't integrate that into your thinking because
it's so far outside the norm. And so whenever this happens,
you'll have people say I couldn't believe what I saw
it first. And it's literally literally the definition of a
double take day, Dave, I think I actually called you
(20:18):
one Saturday morning, Okay, and forget me, I can't remember
the date. They all run together after a while, and
I told you I view listen friends. I viewed Dave
as kind of my sage because Dave has been in
media for so so long, and there's very few things
you could actually say to Dave mac. They're going to
(20:39):
shock him surprising when it comes to the media. I
can you can take that to the bank. All right, Uh,
but that Saturday morning. Forgive my language here, But as
my drill started used to say in basic training, you've
made me hit my highest level of positivity. I had
(21:01):
gotten a I'd gotten a text or something from somebody
that says, yeah, we we saw you on Dateline last night,
And of course it was a Friday night and that
show comes on and apparently the producers made the decision
to talk about how how that coburger had been had
(21:31):
been following through crime, and they threw my image up
on the screen, and I, you know, you could knock
me over with a feather at that point in time,
because I'm thinking, you know, what, why in the world
does this have any you know, have Why are you
choosing to put my image up on the screen, you know,
(21:53):
relative to this? But you know, news is news, and
it's certainly.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
A phone call saying, excuse me, professor Justph Scott Morgan
doing an episode about Jack Goberger, and hey, your name
has come up. Would you mind up providing I mean
anything other than getting a note from some friend who says, hey,
what were you doing on Dayline Lives.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
It's like, I've never given an interview on Dateline. I've
never done anything with Dateline. It's I see them at
crime con and I don't even you know, know those people.
But yeah, so this episode actually comes in at number
eight day and I think that, uh it kind of
you know, you're going to see this kind of tracking through,
(22:33):
you know, through the entire uh, this entire discussion that
we're having. But number eight was a ghastly new info
on Idaho college murders that had been leaked to the public.
And what was being stated at that particular time is
that these injuries had been leaked out to to the
(22:59):
general public visa V this programming that had come out
and as it as it kind of turned out, all
of the injuries are ghastly. But in this episode they
choose to focus on Ethan and you know, you kind
of I think that reflectively, we kind of remember what
my history is with this victim in particular, you know
(23:22):
back in I guess it was twenty twenty three at
Crime con when Ethan's mother was present for that and
she stood up at the end of my talk, and
you know, it's just it gives you an idea as
to the feeding frenzy. And you know, when you see
(23:42):
the degree to which to which these agencies, these news
agencies will go into free feeding, it.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Was crazy, Joe, because they actually made statements that turned
out to not be true, these so called leagues, you know,
from the investigation, or they were misinterpreted information. It was
all factual. And you know when as somebody in the media,
it is our job to vet information before going forth
with it because no matter well, and you know what
(24:11):
this is the difference. It's probably the difference with age, maturity,
what have you, because there are things you'll do when
you're younger that you wouldn't do later in life, because
you've got years of experience of life to realize that
somebody could be hurt by what I'm about to say,
you know, and it doesn't matter if it's true or not.
It matters that somebody is going to be hurt. Emotionally,
(24:34):
and in this particular case, every family member associated with
it was hurt to one degree or another, and they
all took it differently. You know, they really did. And
I think it was an example of that with Reethan
in particular. By the way, I'm only going to say
this one time. At Orlando, your presentation was brilliant. All
I could think of is that missus Shapin did not
(24:56):
see the first twenty minutes, where You've spent twenty minutes
of this entire hour long presentation talking about the students
that were murdered, talking about the type of people they were,
the type of students they were, their background. It was
a real up close and it wasn't just the end
it had. The first twenty minutes had nothing to do
with the attack.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Well, you know, there was there was a you know,
I know the term now and I don't necessarily agree
with it. The context that's always used and they use
the term intersectionality now and that term has been around
for long time courses in the zeitgeist now, particularly in
academic circles. However, there was kind of this intersection for me,
(25:37):
I think with this case because it tugged at from
the beginning. It tugged at my heartstrings because those students
therein I saw my own students, because I'm a college professor,
and this our institution's Jack State and University of Idaho
are so very similar their regional universities. They're not huge
(25:59):
kids come from rural areas and populations are you know,
kind of similar. You know, we're not Harvard, We're just
you know, generally middle class, middle class kids are coming
to school here, you know, and they're they're looking to
go on with their lives and that sort of thing.
So it really I knew that just reflecting back, and
(26:22):
I tried, Dave. I hope that I did the right thing,
because I hope that through through every comment that I
have made regarding regarding this horror, I always kept that.
I tried to keep that in the forefront of my mind,
you know, not trying to be overly speculative and jumping
to these wild, varied conclusions. And as we'll find out,
(26:45):
there's there's still much I think that can be learned
from this on many many levels.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
And you'd learn a lot more those leaks, Okay, the
leaks that that show was based that we did on
you know, was. It really was interesting how it did
open up the rest of the coverage. You know that
we because now we had this, we had a story
that we could look at and go, well, this is
not true. This didn't happen. Where did they get this now, Joe?
(27:15):
Moving forward to episode the seventh most downloaded episode of
the year, was something that hit both of us right
between the eyes. It was a case that would mortify anybody.
I if you have a heart and soul and a
breathe in your year, alive this episode because it could
(27:37):
happen anywhere anytime. I think you know is uh to
without without warning. Okay, you go to the hospital to
have a baby, and you've gone through all the prenatal care.
You're young, you know, and it's a it's a scary time, yes,
but you expect to at least have your childbirth in
(28:00):
the United States of America and this day, and you know,
you expect certain things. And when you brought me this episode,
we were still learning things. It was amazing what was
not readily available Joseph Scott Morgan right, And the title
of the episode was baby Update, Baby dah dated. Yeah,
(28:20):
because we had done an episode, we'd.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Done an episode about it, and I'm familiar with this institution.
I wouldn't say this institution was not necessarily in my
jurisdiction Atlanta. However, however, I had cases that originated in
my jurisdiction where the victims wound up going to this facility.
We're talking about Southern Regional Medical Center in Clinton County, Georgia.
(28:45):
I would have stuff that would originate on the very
far south side of Atlanta and the closest hospital that
could get to a Southern Regional. I'd actually been down
there several times. I'd been into the emergency room. I'm
just and so it's like, I don't know about you, Dave.
Probably it would probably apply. But when you have inhabited
a space before you've breathed that air, you you know
(29:09):
the you know the landscape, you you can recall what
buildings look like and all that sort of thing. It
breathed kind of a new life into into a world
that say, if I was covering something that was in
I don't know mine, not in North Dakota, I don't
I don't have an attachment to that, you know, Like
in my mind, this struck home with me because when
(29:30):
I heard the horror that had and this is actually
horror that was and I'll say this very plainly was
perpetrated upon these two young parents. And I say young,
they're in their late teens, Dave. And they had done
all of the right things. Okay, they'd done all the
right things prenatal care. They were ready to rock and roll.
(29:51):
They were getting ready. And yeah, they weren't married, but
you know they were. I don't care. They're they're looking
to start a life together. They're going to get married
and hear this beautiful blessing is coming their way, Dave.
And their lives and i'd say the lives of their
extended family or ripta shreads as well. And one more
(30:13):
thing I got to say about this case, because I
know that I've got a lot of medical professionals that
are our friends out there that listen to us on
a regular basis, and God bless you. I get comments
from many of you many times, particularly all my nurses
out there. I got contacted more about this case from
the medical community than I did from any other case
(30:37):
I think in recent memory or that we have covered.
And it was because of the horror of it, where
these practitioners that listen to us, they would they knew,
they know what the steps are relative to a delivery
of a child. Even if they work on a surge unit,
(31:01):
they still understand what goes on in labor and delivery.
They understand procedures even you know, even if they're I
don't know, even if they give palliative care at home
for somebody that's in the last stages of life, they
understand this. This is something. This goes to what the
heart of health care is health care not health doom?
(31:22):
All right, And Dave, I got to tell you it
wasn't a fact. It wasn't only the fact, and we
had covered this early on in the first episode. It
wasn't the fact that a mother and this is her
first child, is giving a birth of a full term baby,
(31:47):
a viable baby that is alive at the beginning, and
the doctor decapitates the baby during delivery. From what we're
hearing now, she was it was suggested to her that
(32:07):
they probably should have gone with a C section, but
she insisted upon trying to rotate this baby, rotate the shoulders.
And what happens, well, the physician allegedly has decapitated the baby.
Then they take the remains of the baby, swaddle the
baby and place the head back onto the torso of
(32:31):
the child. Do not allow you know, one of the
big critical things that happens with the mama that delivers
is that even in death, they need to hold that baby.
They need to hold it. It's just it's part of
the process. And they passed this off really quick. The
heroes here are actually is actually the funeral director death
because they gave indication. But you know, with this update episode,
(32:54):
what made this all the more horrible, as if that
couldn't it's if that's not enough, all right, the family
decides that the direction of someone that hey, we need
to get a pathologist to do the examination. They hired
this guy to do an examination, a post mortem examination
(33:15):
on this precious baby. And Dave, this individual takes images
of the decapitated remains of this child and post them
on Instagram. Dave just let that sink in. And so
(33:37):
that's what the update was actually about. And I think,
if I remember correctly, they successfully sued this guy and
they came to a settlement. There's so much more that's
going to happen. I think with this case as well.
It should. You know, some lawsuits out there. You know,
I know that we're all jaded and everything. We think, well,
this is frivolous. It does, Dave, if there was ever
(34:00):
a lawsuit in the history of humanity, Yeah, that needed
to go forward with the full force of the law
behind it. It's this case, Dave.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
It's the case of Jessica Ross, Travion Taylor, Sr. And
baby Isaiah. They did bring a lawsuit. They did sue
doctor Jackson Gates after Gates posted the pictures and video
without their consent or permission. A jury awarded them two
million dollars in damages. And there's still more to come.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Oh, there's a lot more to come. I think that whoever,
whoever is involved in this, and it's not it's not
simply the doctor that decapitate this child. It's going to
be the hospital, It's going to be all the associated
people that set up a deception. A lot more to
come on this particular case, Dave, Well, Dave, that brings
(35:07):
us to number six on our list here for twenty
twenty five and the most downloaded episodes. In this particular episode,
which I'll go ahead and tell you the title right now, friends,
it's the FBI DNA Shocker. Bodycam, police body cam, screaming
on stairs and coburger case continues. The big reveal here,
(35:32):
I think for us was that and the reason we
did this episode. There's a couple of reasons. First off,
we had some information that had come out relative to
the initial interview with Dylan Mortenson in this particular case,
and I think that the issue of the staircase came
(35:57):
into question.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
It's so interesting how much much more we know now
than we knew at the time, and we were having
to you know, we were so blinded, and they could
have they could have let a lot of the information
out earlier. But a lot of what we have is afterward,
you know, after the admission of minimal admission of guilt.
You know, a lot of that has become public knowledge.
But at the time, we were going on little bits
(36:20):
of little scraps of information that we were getting, and
it was fascinating how you were able to take that
and explain what we were getting, Joe. That was the
part that I take away from it.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah, and that you know, you're you're trying to you know,
it's kind of paint by numbers, right, You're you're feeling
literally filling in the blanks, but you it's faint by
numbers without having the numbers, and you don't you don't
even know what color to use. But you know, I
think that that probably for for anybody that's that's looking
(36:56):
back now in time, some of these things have kind of, uh,
there was so much shucking and jibing, I think relative
to what the defense was doing and what the prosecution
was trying to protect along the way. And yeah, it's
really easy I know, for anyone to sit back and
you know, cast cast judgment, not dispersions, but judgment and listen.
(37:20):
I don't I don't know. I don't know how many
people out there in sparsely located you know, locations like
this that have worked a quadruple homicide. Right. It's a
it's it's really easy to say what we would and
(37:41):
would not do. And I've you know, I've certainly made
my judgments over a period of time about the way
the scene was was initially handled, how it was locked
down and secured and all that, but you don't know
kind of at a granular level, you know, really what's
going on. I think probably this goes back to our
friends at Authram and as as you and I had
(38:03):
suspected and we talked about this, you know, off off air,
you know, for a long time. I had my own suspicions,
and uh we knew that if they were looking to
do anything regarding regarding DNA, and specifically with forensic genetic DNA,
(38:25):
that our friends at AUTHORAM would probably be involved in it.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
That's by the way, Uh, you know, shameless plug DNA
solves dot com. Check them out. But as it turned out,
there was one other big reveal here. It wasn't just
what Dylan Mortensen had heard, what she had relayed in
those those first that first day, you know, after after
(38:50):
this this horror, but it's also what we came to
find out about the FBI. There was there's been an
internal memo that had been circulated through the FBI where
they talked about how it was not there it was
not going to be their practice to utilize non open
source DNA. Uh, you know, well springs, you know, to
(39:12):
glean information from because that requires there's there are certain
certain things that are guaranteed to us, uh, even to
accuse killers where you have a right you know, to
privacy and when you enter into an agreement like some
of these big corporations have with uh, with privacy and
(39:35):
collection of DNA to do you know, if you're trying
to figure out if your family from Norway or Z
bobwe you're you know, you have an expectation of privacy.
And according to what had come out is that it
wasn't just the DNA UH that was being utilized that
was recovered you know, necessarily at the scene and certainly
(39:58):
off the or the the way it was sourced. It
was also it was also they were going to go
into close source DNA databases. And for me personally, as
a big fan of prophecy and you're right to a prophecy,
it kind of sent shivers up and down my spine.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
It still does me, Joe, for anybody who has ever
been accused of the crime they did not commit. If
you've ever sat in the chair where everybody believes you
did something and you know you didn't and there appears
to be evidence pointing at you, believe me. You understand
the importance of truth and privacy. And when they said
(40:41):
they would never do this, the government will never have
access the government, blah blah, it's a load of garbage.
It was now granted. Look, man, it without it, Joe,
I believe there was evidence. However, it was the evidence
that the investigators wherever to were able to glean from this. Yeah,
(41:02):
that led them to this particular suspect and then all
the other information pit. But without that, there was information,
but it wasn't There was nothing. There was no string
tying it all together. Yeah, I know they could have
done that. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Yeah, that's the reason I like to term use the
term wellspring, you know, because it's from that font that
everything else comes from that source, that root. Uh. We've
even got you know, precedent in the law. Uh that
goes back to you know, even if you want to
take a look. And again I'm no jurisprudent scholar here,
but you know, if you look at things concepts like
(41:37):
fruit of the uh you know, through the boys tree
and all these sorts of things, it's a dangerous area.
And I have felt and I know I remember feeling
that curious, you know, kind of corkscrew feeling going up
my spine when they were finally in the last phases
of adjudication with this case, thinking if there is one
(41:57):
bit of if there is one thing that they could
you know, kind of latch get a toe hold with
As far as appeal would go, I felt as though
that it could be this bit, and of course, you know,
as it's turned out, you know, he's he has agreed
to not file an appeal. That was part of the
(42:19):
but as you know, just like the changing of the wind,
that subject to whatever wind happens to be blowing at
that particular time, I submit to you, and I still
believe this is that as time goes by, I think
that there will be some type of appeal filed. I
just don't know what form that's going to take, but
(42:40):
certainly I think that this is something that anybody that's
going to be advising this prisoner, it's certainly something that
they would probably look at in the long er.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
And that's why we did an episode, and is why
it's number six and our most downloaded. There was a
lot more in that episode as well, by the way,
not just that, but boy, all right, Joe, to wrap
up this episode, our number five most downloaded episode, you know,
we began number ten was about Travis Decker's bones and
(43:11):
what went into finding the body of Travis Decker. And
but that's not where the story began. No, Our five,
number five most downloaded episode actually said the title was
horrifying details Decker sisters, deaths, bags on heads, hands, zip tied,
(43:33):
bloody handprint. Yeah, Joe, this was one of the episodes.
I cried when we got done.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Yeah, yeah, it really struck a chord. I think with
you and I both, and I know that you know,
our point of reference is always as dads and Grandpa's
and you know, the brutality here I think, you know,
the brutality of strangers is one thing. Brutality of those
that that we love and trust and trust our children
(44:01):
with this it's a different level. And you know, and
I even go back to you know, I think about
Kay and there's tons of them I could sight, but
probably you know, Chris Watts is another you know that
you know I think about that. You know, how can
you how can you perpetrate this? I don't, I don't.
(44:21):
I don't really care about what psychopathology you're dealing with
at any particular time. You're not going to tug my
heartstrings with that. I just I think about that life
that you have had a hand in creating, in how
you have the the willpower and uh kind of the
evil as a driver that you're going to rob the
(44:44):
world of of of these kids. And when I heard
about when I heard about the status that these baby's
bodies were found in out there, and that out there
in that wilderness, because Dave, you had to pipe in
sunshine into this area. This is not some this is
not some locale that is easily accessed. The fact that
(45:08):
you could do this to these children and leave them
and have them be subject to the wiles out there,
Dave scavengers all these sorts of things. It would appear
that he had prepared and there were a multitude of
these zip ties that were found adjacent to this camping
(45:30):
area and also that were I think found either in
the vehicle as well along with these bags. The bags,
the bags that these kids, and the bags are actually
the fatal tool here because they are this is not
(45:52):
this isn't one bag, it's multiple bags that were placed
over their head. So he's trying to trying to assure
that their lives are going to come to an end.
And you know, really painting a picture here because anybody
that is struggling, and people out there will understand this.
If you've ever had your breath taken away, if you've
(46:14):
you know, when you were a kid, if you ever
had siblings and you play pickpile and you're on the
bottom of the pile, you're going to flail and do
everything that you can to try to get your air.
All right, He restrained them, Dave. He restrained them with
these zip ties to prevent them from clawing or doing
anything or trying to fight him. This big, you know, burly,
outdoorsy veteran. You know, he's zip tye in the hands
(46:38):
of these babies. Just let that eight and five yo.
And you know that he would do this and one
by one systematically deprive them, deprive them of the breath
of life, as well as any future that may have
(47:00):
been there, not just for them, but for him. Man,
I don't care how rotten your life seems at any
particular time. I don't care how bad your past has been.
The fact that any potential for hope, you know, drained
away when those children drew their last And now this
poor mama is left here, you know, and I can't
(47:21):
even imagine the position she's in to this day.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Dave Peyton, Evelyn, Olivia Decker, Joe. When we did this episode,
Travis Decker was still missing. He was on the run. Yeah,
he was the lone suspect, but he was on the run.
And at the time, officials said, anyone who sees Decker
or knows of his whereabouts, she called, I'm on one. Now,
of course it has been resolved, and you know, they've
identified his body or what they found left.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
But that was our.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Number five most downloaded episode of the year, Shocking. Now
we've got the top four. We've got the final four
Joe for tomorrow, and I will tell you it is
a final four of Shocking.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
I will tell you.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
I'll give you that much.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Yeah, and not necessarily surprising. But again, as we go
back and we visit these episodes that brother Dave and
I have put together over this past year, it brings back,
It brings back the horror that we have tried to
do in the most sensitive ways we possibly can. But
describing the forensics behind how people lost their lives and
(48:29):
what happened to them actually in death is what we're
all about at Body Bags. Join us for episode two,
which will in fact be premiering tomorrow. I'm Joseph Scott
Morgan and this is Bodybys
Body Bus, but Joseph's gotten more well. Here we are.
We've come to the end of another year, twenty twenty five,
and for some unfortunately this past year it was literally
the end. And we have done the best that we
(00:21):
can over this past year to cover these cases. And
for me personally and on behalf of brother Dave Mac,
thank you. Thank you to all of my friends that
have listened faithfully and that have shared and commented and
made request along the way. It's certainly been an adventure,
(00:44):
I'd have to say that. But we're going to do
a little bit something different this time. I want to
take this opportunity to talk about the top ten most
downloaded cases that we have covered this year twenty twenty
five on Bodybacks. So without further ado, we're going to
(01:08):
enter in to ten through five. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan
and this is Bodybacks Dave. Starting out, we didn't really
know where this year was going to go. We had
some indication, because Lord have mercy, I know, coming out
(01:32):
of twenty twenty four we did have some big cases
that were on the horizon, and I think that probably
our top ten is reflective of that. But I got
to say we had a few surprises along the way.
You have pointed this out to me, and I was surprised.
I was actually surprised, but kind of as pleasant as
(01:55):
things can be in the world that you and I
and habit. I was pleasantly surprised because it's a wide
variety of cases to a certain degree, but you know,
we can you can kind of predict, you know, what
direction things are trending, I think, and where people's interests are.
But certainly for us it was I'd say it was
a fruitful year.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
It's a shocking list, you know. I was actually really
surprised by it. And you know, Joe, this past year
has been man, it's been a crazy year.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
It really has.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
And this time last year, when we were looking ahead,
I could not have predicted at all that I would
end up this year the way I did personally and professionally.
How we It's just amazing to me. And you know what,
what's really cool In a couple of weeks, In a
(02:49):
couple of weeks, you are going to be in Atlanta
with the Cheryl McCollum. We're actually been invited to join
a tour, and not just as I mean with body
bags of j Justseph Scott Morgan. I mean, you're the
most sought after person in forensics. It's amazing that that
the turnout expected for this thing and tickets are going
(03:11):
are gone. But I'm just I'm amazed, surprised at what
is in store.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, the I am. And we're on this journey together. Brother.
It's going to be fun and and we'll have more
details coming out. I'll push stuff out about Dave and
I will be there together, I can promise you. And literally,
you've heard of the podcast Zone seven. We're literally going
to be at the place the namesake of Zone seven,
(03:42):
which is Manual's Tavern in Atlanta, and so that's where
the name actually originated. And we're going to be there
celebrating with our friend Cheryl, and I'll give it to you.
I'll just say this much. Probably a surprise appearance to
by somebody that you you may or may not have
heard of. But we'll we'll see how that goes well.
But anyway, let's let's hop right into our list here. Dave.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
All right, Joe, Look, when I was breaking these down,
I was shocked that Travis Decker showed up in the
top ten. Okay, now shocked not because it was because
I didn't realize how big this story is. You and
I cover so many stories and sometimes we really get
(04:27):
buried in the weeds. But Joseph Scott Morgan, Travis Decker
shows up twice on this list of the top ten
most downloaded shows of the year, and starting right off
the back and right off the bat Rather, when we
had the announcement several times that Travis Decker had been found,
you know, accused of murdering his daughters in the campground
(04:49):
that he was living in. Remember, it wasn't just he's
a camper. Now they've made it out like this guy
was freaking iron man living in the woods, you know,
and a survivalist who could eat a pine tree faster
than you'll givens, you know. And they had him made
out to be this Grizzly Adams type survivalist. And yet
you know, you go to the campsite where this homeless
(05:11):
bet was living and it's a trash bag of Dollar
General bags, you know. And but what was found there
was disgusting and shocking, Yeah, and sick. How does a
person who calls himself a man do this to children
much like his own?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, and that I think that the fact that you
know that you emphasized that day relative to what had
been done to these these little angels, it goes to
I think, probably to a certain extent. I hate to
use terms like the fear that gripped the nation, but
there were certainly, and certainly in that area of the country,
(05:53):
there were people, I think, given this narrative that had
been put out about him as a survivalist, he's a veteran,
there was some concern about people that lived up because
in this particular area of the country, it's very isolated,
right and when you look at it and you think
this guy has nothing left to lose, and it's there,
(06:14):
you're out there with him, or he's in your space
potentially in his mono and mono, what are you going
to do if you come across this guy? And so look,
they were looking for this guy all over the Northwest,
particularly focused I think all the way up in that
northern stem of Idaho. They even contemplated that he had
maybe had made his way across the border into Canada,
(06:38):
and everybody was kind of waiting. You know, we would
get these updates periodically, you know, through the news, we'd
see things of course, with your sources, you know, you
would get little scraps of things that would come through,
but there was nothing really that you could hang your
hat on. And here's something else. You know, you talk
about the disorder of this world that he lived in there,
(06:59):
and I think that that goes to this tracking of him.
There was no specific order. There was kind of and
I'm not going to say that he's unpredictable like in
a cagey Fox kind of way. He's unpredictable in the
sense that this goes to his mindset. This guy is
mentally disturbed. He's a erratic, he's a ratic, he's all
(07:22):
over the board. And of course, as it turned out,
as it turned out, they you know, this guy is
found well in pieces.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Say that was this episode see the story, and I
should have probably clarified. You know, Travis Decker and his
ex wife had had custodial issues and it was because
of Travis Decker's life choices and how he lived. And
he did not return with the girls as expected after
a custodial visit, and so they were on his trail
right away. And that was one of the shocking parts
about the story is it wasn't like they started a
(07:56):
week behind. They started the day he was late, and
they were able to find the girls' bodies very soon,
within a matter of days. But Travis Decker was one
that could not find. And I remember as we were
looking for this, there were a number of stories of
you know, bones are found here, and I remember you
talking about how many times bones are found in the woods,
(08:17):
because well, animals die in the woods and their bones
are there in the woods, and you know, there's.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
An interesting little piece to that, you know, when you
live out in the woods. I found myself. We lived
up in the North Georgia Mountains for a long time,
for about a decade, up in the southern part of
the Blue Rich Mountains, and there were these beautiful rivers
and streams up there, and I remember going to campsites
and Kim and I would just take the kids out
there and we would picnic and it's beautiful. You know
(08:47):
what I did most of the time when I was
out there, just taking in the beauty. I had a
fascination with hemlock trees because they grow up there adjacent
to bodies of water, and they're unique. Yeah, that's hemlock,
the same hemlock that was, you know, drank famously all
those all those centuries ago, and uh, you see the
(09:09):
beautiful sky, you see the mountains. You know what I
never really did. I never really looked down at the ground.
Oh wow. I think that a lot of people, a
lot of people think, well, it's it's kind of weird
that you would, you know, that you would find these bones. Well, no,
it's not. The bones are there because animals. Animals die,
you know, not every not every animal that dies out
(09:31):
in the wood is some kind of trauma related event.
Sometimes animals just get old, just like all creatures do,
and you finally die. And people don't normally look down
at the ground, so, you know, and so you will
find things. When people do look down, they find these,
you know, these kind of remains that are skeletal remains
that are left behind, and they average Joe citizen doesn't
(09:53):
know the difference between the fore leg of a deer,
which would be the deer fiend, and a human. Yeah,
and most people don't. And I'm glad that most people don't,
you know, but it's a world that we Endwell, that's
why it's so important in the Travis Deker case that
you actually had a team of forensic anthropologists that examined
(10:16):
these remains and clarify it because you know at the
end of the day with the decor case that that
final door is closed on this horrific chapter, and it
can only be finally closed with a confirmation of who
he was.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Isn't that crazy Joe that they couldn't even do an
autopsy because they never found his story. So they never
found his head.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
No, they didn't. And you're talking one hundred days now,
range and the idea that you're absent these elements is
not surprising. You know, we talk about we talk about
all kinds of things when it comes to skeletal remains,
even if even in a wet environment like this, when
(11:03):
you have scavenger activity that disarticulates bones. Did you know
that hydrology plays into this as well. If you get
a big rainstorm and the remains are sitting on a hill, Oh,
you can actually have you can actually have a skull
that will roll away, You can have long bones that
will wash with Certainly the smaller elements will wash away
in your absence. Doesn't necessarily mean that someone has decapitated
(11:26):
someone and run off into the darkness with their head.
So yeah, and so you have to confirm it. And
of course they were able to do this confirmation and
they wound up doing the confirmation through DNA.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Now, Joe, we started with Travis Decker at number ten.
Our number nine most downloaded show was also Back in
the Woods and a body being dumped. It's a human
remains found scattered on a Georgia hunting club property in
November of twenty twenty two. The remains were found in
a three mile area covering two different counties, and investigators
(12:01):
had to reach out to the public for help. And
I've got a couple of questions for you about this
as an investigator. I know that your world, that what
you do as an investigator is different than what law
enforcement does because they do have specific lines they can't
cross geographically speaking. Correct.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yes, yeah, you're right, And you know, many times, many
times you hear this term. It's thrown around a lot
in the news media where a task course has been formed.
Of course, you know, in an area like Georgia, you
have cooperation most of the time between neighboring sheriff's offices
and that's who would you know, kind of take the
(12:42):
lead wherever the first remains are found. However, you're going
to need kind of this overarching organization, Like in the
case of Georgia, they have the GBI Georgia Bureau of
Investigation that can send teams out there, but they have
to be invited to come there. All right, Okay, it's not.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Like call up and say, hey, I'm with the FBI
and we're taking over. I'm with the e I we're
taking over.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
No, it has to be something if they're going to
do that, it has to be something that there's a
statutory requirement or obligation where that particular state agency or
federal agency takes charge. What it comes down to is
keeping local control if you've got homicide in your area.
(13:26):
And I know this because even in Atlanta, you believe this.
When I was in Atlanta, there were things that the
Atlanta Police Department just could not handle and they would
call the GBI. The GBI and of course there were yeah,
and there were actually some personnel issues too, But there's
another time and place for that discussion that they would, yeah,
(13:49):
that they would want to call in, you know, they
would want to call in the GBI to work these things.
And so in this case, you're going to have kind
of an overarching But what's fascinating about this case is
at number nine is the fact that these remains are
scattered over a multi county area.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Dave right, and we're talking about the case of Mindy
Kosotis and her husband Nicholas Casotis. Now, I've read so
many things about this couple now that it's a very
confusing story. But when we were covering it, here was
the headline, missing wife body parts found in woods. Ex
(14:34):
Navy jag husband accused. We had this story from Nicholas
Casotis that they were being they were in trouble, and
they were being followed and they were having to hide
out because they were being controlled by a man who
(14:54):
was threatening them with their lives and they were on
the run for their own safety and block blah blah.
This guy created an entire world time, Nicholas gas And
so when his wife goes missing, he's trying to blame
it on this phantom person, you know, and they couldn't
find her at first. And then when body parts starts
showing up in Georgia in multiple counties, well, now you've
(15:17):
got the body or well parts of the body, and
as you mentioned, having several different agencies involved. It gets
a little fugly at that point.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
And yeah, you're right, and he's listen, this guy. The
interesting thing about it, Yeah, he had been a part
of JAG in the Navy. And I think that the
thing that's so disarming about this is you think that,
you know, an auscter and gentleman. You think that he
is going to be this kind of well anchored guy
that has a very strong moral compass and that. But
(15:50):
he could not be further from that tempo. Did you
know that that leading up to these fatal events, these
people had moved close to fifty times times uh in
just a few years. And anytime I've ever been associated
with a case in the past, uh, and people have
moved that much because even okay, let's just say that
(16:12):
even if you are tied to some big industry, you're
some kind of corporate head, or if you're in the military,
you're not going to move this much in a very
short period of time. Fifty That means that you're running
from something. And of course, you know Casoda's had had
kind of woven Uh. He's he's a you know, he's
a flim flam guy, is what it comes down. To
(16:35):
and a great deceiver is a pathological liar. And I
think that probably when the authorities, you know, finally got
wind of of her, you know, her absent, her being
absent in you know, in the in the current context
of life, immediately they're going to smell a rat with
this guy, Dave.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
And it started with the finding of her head, I believe,
at a hunting range, a hunting lodge area. And I'm
gonna be honest, Joe, if you and I were out
with some friends hunting, you know, just having a hunting weekend,
right finding a human head, that would mess with your
weekend pretty bad, you know. And I'm being flipping, But
(17:18):
when you get right down to it, Joe, that's just
not an everyday occurrence to find a human head. Whether
it's a skull or hair on, I don't know, but
I would be freaking out. I would lose my cookies
if I saw something like that.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah, you would. And there are a number of cases.
Dogs are very fascinating to me. I know that sounds
really out of the blue and kind of arbitrary me
saying that suddenly, but go with me here. Do you
know I've had more cases that I've been involved with
as an investigator with bodies that have either been post
wartem disarticulated as a result of decomposition or dismemberment. Where
(17:54):
a dog will come walking up with a head and
it's kind of weird. Yeah, dogs are fascinated and you know,
you and I both are. We're keen of the dog lovers.
You know. It's like there's certain people I don't care
if you do harm to them. Don't don't. Don't hurt
a dog around me. It's just not my thing. Man.
(18:16):
You know, we rescue. You and I both rescue dogs.
And the one thing you know about dog behaviors they
love to play, most of them do, and with human
heads in particular. And I could tell you some really
wild stories of uh involving this. Maybe, well maybe we'll
do a whole segment sometime about wild stories from Morgan's past. Really, Uh,
(18:38):
look what the yeah, look what the dog drug in? Uh.
Dogs will walk up into a into their back home
with a head. And there's a number of accounts of
dogs having heads between their their forepaws and and chewing
on a head, chewing on a skull, or batting and
around Dave on the ball like a ball and they'll
do that and they'll get down. I love to see
(19:00):
dogs when they will get down and they'll put their
their rear end up in the air, you know, and
they kind of you know, look at it and their
their bent at the front, you know, and their tails
are wagging and they don't know any different, you know.
But yeah, so the head is actually found found in
this case. And yeah, if you if you happen to
come across a human head, even if you're some kind
(19:23):
of rough and tumble hunter and you're out on property
and you're going, this is something that's going to give
you pause. And generally consistently you hear this from people. Uh,
and I've done it myself, but people will say, wait,
hang on, I got to take a look at this again.
Did I just see what I thought I saw? Because
(19:43):
you don't. You can't integrate that into your thinking because
it's so far outside the norm. And so whenever this happens,
you'll have people say I couldn't believe what I saw
it first. And it's literally literally the definition of a
double take day, Dave, I think I actually called you
(20:18):
one Saturday morning, Okay, and forget me, I can't remember
the date. They all run together after a while, and
I told you I view listen friends. I viewed Dave
as kind of my sage because Dave has been in
media for so so long, and there's very few things
you could actually say to Dave mac. They're going to
(20:39):
shock him surprising when it comes to the media. I
can you can take that to the bank. All right, Uh,
but that Saturday morning. Forgive my language here, But as
my drill started used to say in basic training, you've
made me hit my highest level of positivity. I had
(21:01):
gotten a I'd gotten a text or something from somebody
that says, yeah, we we saw you on Dateline last night,
And of course it was a Friday night and that
show comes on and apparently the producers made the decision
to talk about how how that coburger had been had
(21:31):
been following through crime, and they threw my image up
on the screen, and I, you know, you could knock
me over with a feather at that point in time,
because I'm thinking, you know, what, why in the world
does this have any you know, have Why are you
choosing to put my image up on the screen, you know,
(21:53):
relative to this? But you know, news is news, and
it's certainly.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
A phone call saying, excuse me, professor Justph Scott Morgan
doing an episode about Jack Goberger, and hey, your name
has come up. Would you mind up providing I mean
anything other than getting a note from some friend who says, hey,
what were you doing on Dayline Lives.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
It's like, I've never given an interview on Dateline. I've
never done anything with Dateline. It's I see them at
crime con and I don't even you know, know those people.
But yeah, so this episode actually comes in at number
eight day and I think that, uh it kind of
you know, you're going to see this kind of tracking through,
(22:33):
you know, through the entire uh, this entire discussion that
we're having. But number eight was a ghastly new info
on Idaho college murders that had been leaked to the public.
And what was being stated at that particular time is
that these injuries had been leaked out to to the
(22:59):
general public visa V this programming that had come out
and as it as it kind of turned out, all
of the injuries are ghastly. But in this episode they
choose to focus on Ethan and you know, you kind
of I think that reflectively, we kind of remember what
my history is with this victim in particular, you know
(23:22):
back in I guess it was twenty twenty three at
Crime con when Ethan's mother was present for that and
she stood up at the end of my talk, and
you know, it's just it gives you an idea as
to the feeding frenzy. And you know, when you see
(23:42):
the degree to which to which these agencies, these news
agencies will go into free feeding, it.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Was crazy, Joe, because they actually made statements that turned
out to not be true, these so called leagues, you know,
from the investigation, or they were misinterpreted information. It was
all factual. And you know when as somebody in the media,
it is our job to vet information before going forth
with it because no matter well, and you know what
(24:11):
this is the difference. It's probably the difference with age, maturity,
what have you, because there are things you'll do when
you're younger that you wouldn't do later in life, because
you've got years of experience of life to realize that
somebody could be hurt by what I'm about to say,
you know, and it doesn't matter if it's true or not.
It matters that somebody is going to be hurt. Emotionally,
(24:34):
and in this particular case, every family member associated with
it was hurt to one degree or another, and they
all took it differently. You know, they really did. And
I think it was an example of that with Reethan
in particular. By the way, I'm only going to say
this one time. At Orlando, your presentation was brilliant. All
I could think of is that missus Shapin did not
(24:56):
see the first twenty minutes, where You've spent twenty minutes
of this entire hour long presentation talking about the students
that were murdered, talking about the type of people they were,
the type of students they were, their background. It was
a real up close and it wasn't just the end
it had. The first twenty minutes had nothing to do
with the attack.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Well, you know, there was there was a you know,
I know the term now and I don't necessarily agree
with it. The context that's always used and they use
the term intersectionality now and that term has been around
for long time courses in the zeitgeist now, particularly in
academic circles. However, there was kind of this intersection for me,
(25:37):
I think with this case because it tugged at from
the beginning. It tugged at my heartstrings because those students
therein I saw my own students, because I'm a college professor,
and this our institution's Jack State and University of Idaho
are so very similar their regional universities. They're not huge
(25:59):
kids come from rural areas and populations are you know,
kind of similar. You know, we're not Harvard, We're just
you know, generally middle class, middle class kids are coming
to school here, you know, and they're they're looking to
go on with their lives and that sort of thing.
So it really I knew that just reflecting back, and
(26:22):
I tried, Dave. I hope that I did the right thing,
because I hope that through through every comment that I
have made regarding regarding this horror, I always kept that.
I tried to keep that in the forefront of my mind,
you know, not trying to be overly speculative and jumping
to these wild, varied conclusions. And as we'll find out,
(26:45):
there's there's still much I think that can be learned
from this on many many levels.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
And you'd learn a lot more those leaks, Okay, the
leaks that that show was based that we did on
you know, was. It really was interesting how it did
open up the rest of the coverage. You know that
we because now we had this, we had a story
that we could look at and go, well, this is
not true. This didn't happen. Where did they get this now, Joe?
(27:15):
Moving forward to episode the seventh most downloaded episode of
the year, was something that hit both of us right
between the eyes. It was a case that would mortify anybody.
I if you have a heart and soul and a
breathe in your year, alive this episode because it could
(27:37):
happen anywhere anytime. I think you know is uh to
without without warning. Okay, you go to the hospital to
have a baby, and you've gone through all the prenatal care.
You're young, you know, and it's a it's a scary time, yes,
but you expect to at least have your childbirth in
(28:00):
the United States of America and this day, and you know,
you expect certain things. And when you brought me this episode,
we were still learning things. It was amazing what was
not readily available Joseph Scott Morgan right, And the title
of the episode was baby Update, Baby dah dated. Yeah,
(28:20):
because we had done an episode, we'd.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Done an episode about it, and I'm familiar with this institution.
I wouldn't say this institution was not necessarily in my
jurisdiction Atlanta. However, however, I had cases that originated in
my jurisdiction where the victims wound up going to this facility.
We're talking about Southern Regional Medical Center in Clinton County, Georgia.
(28:45):
I would have stuff that would originate on the very
far south side of Atlanta and the closest hospital that
could get to a Southern Regional. I'd actually been down
there several times. I'd been into the emergency room. I'm
just and so it's like, I don't know about you, Dave.
Probably it would probably apply. But when you have inhabited
a space before you've breathed that air, you you know
(29:09):
the you know the landscape, you you can recall what
buildings look like and all that sort of thing. It
breathed kind of a new life into into a world
that say, if I was covering something that was in
I don't know mine, not in North Dakota, I don't
I don't have an attachment to that, you know, Like
in my mind, this struck home with me because when
(29:30):
I heard the horror that had and this is actually
horror that was and I'll say this very plainly was
perpetrated upon these two young parents. And I say young,
they're in their late teens, Dave. And they had done
all of the right things. Okay, they'd done all the
right things prenatal care. They were ready to rock and roll.
(29:51):
They were getting ready. And yeah, they weren't married, but
you know they were. I don't care. They're they're looking
to start a life together. They're going to get married
and hear this beautiful blessing is coming their way, Dave.
And their lives and i'd say the lives of their
extended family or ripta shreads as well. And one more
(30:13):
thing I got to say about this case, because I
know that I've got a lot of medical professionals that
are our friends out there that listen to us on
a regular basis, and God bless you. I get comments
from many of you many times, particularly all my nurses
out there. I got contacted more about this case from
the medical community than I did from any other case
(30:37):
I think in recent memory or that we have covered.
And it was because of the horror of it, where
these practitioners that listen to us, they would they knew,
they know what the steps are relative to a delivery
of a child. Even if they work on a surge unit,
(31:01):
they still understand what goes on in labor and delivery.
They understand procedures even you know, even if they're I
don't know, even if they give palliative care at home
for somebody that's in the last stages of life, they
understand this. This is something. This goes to what the
heart of health care is health care not health doom?
(31:22):
All right, And Dave, I got to tell you it
wasn't a fact. It wasn't only the fact, and we
had covered this early on in the first episode. It
wasn't the fact that a mother and this is her
first child, is giving a birth of a full term baby,
(31:47):
a viable baby that is alive at the beginning, and
the doctor decapitates the baby during delivery. From what we're
hearing now, she was it was suggested to her that
(32:07):
they probably should have gone with a C section, but
she insisted upon trying to rotate this baby, rotate the shoulders.
And what happens, well, the physician allegedly has decapitated the baby.
Then they take the remains of the baby, swaddle the
baby and place the head back onto the torso of
(32:31):
the child. Do not allow you know, one of the
big critical things that happens with the mama that delivers
is that even in death, they need to hold that baby.
They need to hold it. It's just it's part of
the process. And they passed this off really quick. The
heroes here are actually is actually the funeral director death
because they gave indication. But you know, with this update episode,
(32:54):
what made this all the more horrible, as if that
couldn't it's if that's not enough, all right, the family
decides that the direction of someone that hey, we need
to get a pathologist to do the examination. They hired
this guy to do an examination, a post mortem examination
(33:15):
on this precious baby. And Dave, this individual takes images
of the decapitated remains of this child and post them
on Instagram. Dave just let that sink in. And so
(33:37):
that's what the update was actually about. And I think,
if I remember correctly, they successfully sued this guy and
they came to a settlement. There's so much more that's
going to happen. I think with this case as well.
It should. You know, some lawsuits out there. You know,
I know that we're all jaded and everything. We think, well,
this is frivolous. It does, Dave, if there was ever
(34:00):
a lawsuit in the history of humanity, Yeah, that needed
to go forward with the full force of the law
behind it. It's this case, Dave.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
It's the case of Jessica Ross, Travion Taylor, Sr. And
baby Isaiah. They did bring a lawsuit. They did sue
doctor Jackson Gates after Gates posted the pictures and video
without their consent or permission. A jury awarded them two
million dollars in damages. And there's still more to come.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Oh, there's a lot more to come. I think that whoever,
whoever is involved in this, and it's not it's not
simply the doctor that decapitate this child. It's going to
be the hospital, It's going to be all the associated
people that set up a deception. A lot more to
come on this particular case, Dave, Well, Dave, that brings
(35:07):
us to number six on our list here for twenty
twenty five and the most downloaded episodes. In this particular episode,
which I'll go ahead and tell you the title right now, friends,
it's the FBI DNA Shocker. Bodycam, police body cam, screaming
on stairs and coburger case continues. The big reveal here,
(35:32):
I think for us was that and the reason we
did this episode. There's a couple of reasons. First off,
we had some information that had come out relative to
the initial interview with Dylan Mortenson in this particular case,
and I think that the issue of the staircase came
(35:57):
into question.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
It's so interesting how much much more we know now
than we knew at the time, and we were having
to you know, we were so blinded, and they could
have they could have let a lot of the information
out earlier. But a lot of what we have is afterward,
you know, after the admission of minimal admission of guilt.
You know, a lot of that has become public knowledge.
But at the time, we were going on little bits
(36:20):
of little scraps of information that we were getting, and
it was fascinating how you were able to take that
and explain what we were getting, Joe. That was the
part that I take away from it.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah, and that you know, you're you're trying to you know,
it's kind of paint by numbers, right, You're you're feeling
literally filling in the blanks, but you it's faint by
numbers without having the numbers, and you don't you don't
even know what color to use. But you know, I
think that that probably for for anybody that's that's looking
(36:56):
back now in time, some of these things have kind of, uh,
there was so much shucking and jibing, I think relative
to what the defense was doing and what the prosecution
was trying to protect along the way. And yeah, it's
really easy I know, for anyone to sit back and
you know, cast cast judgment, not dispersions, but judgment and listen.
(37:20):
I don't I don't know. I don't know how many
people out there in sparsely located you know, locations like
this that have worked a quadruple homicide. Right. It's a
it's it's really easy to say what we would and
(37:41):
would not do. And I've you know, I've certainly made
my judgments over a period of time about the way
the scene was was initially handled, how it was locked
down and secured and all that, but you don't know
kind of at a granular level, you know, really what's
going on. I think probably this goes back to our
friends at Authram and as as you and I had
(38:03):
suspected and we talked about this, you know, off off air,
you know, for a long time. I had my own suspicions,
and uh we knew that if they were looking to
do anything regarding regarding DNA, and specifically with forensic genetic DNA,
(38:25):
that our friends at AUTHORAM would probably be involved in it.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
That's by the way, Uh, you know, shameless plug DNA
solves dot com. Check them out. But as it turned out,
there was one other big reveal here. It wasn't just
what Dylan Mortensen had heard, what she had relayed in
those those first that first day, you know, after after
(38:50):
this this horror, but it's also what we came to
find out about the FBI. There was there's been an
internal memo that had been circulated through the FBI where
they talked about how it was not there it was
not going to be their practice to utilize non open
source DNA. Uh, you know, well springs, you know, to
(39:12):
glean information from because that requires there's there are certain
certain things that are guaranteed to us, uh, even to
accuse killers where you have a right you know, to
privacy and when you enter into an agreement like some
of these big corporations have with uh, with privacy and
(39:35):
collection of DNA to do you know, if you're trying
to figure out if your family from Norway or Z
bobwe you're you know, you have an expectation of privacy.
And according to what had come out is that it
wasn't just the DNA UH that was being utilized that
was recovered you know, necessarily at the scene and certainly
(39:58):
off the or the the way it was sourced. It
was also it was also they were going to go
into close source DNA databases. And for me personally, as
a big fan of prophecy and you're right to a prophecy,
it kind of sent shivers up and down my spine.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
It still does me, Joe, for anybody who has ever
been accused of the crime they did not commit. If
you've ever sat in the chair where everybody believes you
did something and you know you didn't and there appears
to be evidence pointing at you, believe me. You understand
the importance of truth and privacy. And when they said
(40:41):
they would never do this, the government will never have
access the government, blah blah, it's a load of garbage.
It was now granted. Look, man, it without it, Joe,
I believe there was evidence. However, it was the evidence
that the investigators wherever to were able to glean from this. Yeah,
(41:02):
that led them to this particular suspect and then all
the other information pit. But without that, there was information,
but it wasn't There was nothing. There was no string
tying it all together. Yeah, I know they could have
done that. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Yeah, that's the reason I like to term use the
term wellspring, you know, because it's from that font that
everything else comes from that source, that root. Uh. We've
even got you know, precedent in the law. Uh that
goes back to you know, even if you want to
take a look. And again I'm no jurisprudent scholar here,
but you know, if you look at things concepts like
(41:37):
fruit of the uh you know, through the boys tree
and all these sorts of things, it's a dangerous area.
And I have felt and I know I remember feeling
that curious, you know, kind of corkscrew feeling going up
my spine when they were finally in the last phases
of adjudication with this case, thinking if there is one
(41:57):
bit of if there is one thing that they could
you know, kind of latch get a toe hold with
As far as appeal would go, I felt as though
that it could be this bit, and of course, you know,
as it's turned out, you know, he's he has agreed
to not file an appeal. That was part of the
(42:19):
but as you know, just like the changing of the wind,
that subject to whatever wind happens to be blowing at
that particular time, I submit to you, and I still
believe this is that as time goes by, I think
that there will be some type of appeal filed. I
just don't know what form that's going to take, but
(42:40):
certainly I think that this is something that anybody that's
going to be advising this prisoner, it's certainly something that
they would probably look at in the long er.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
And that's why we did an episode, and is why
it's number six and our most downloaded. There was a
lot more in that episode as well, by the way,
not just that, but boy, all right, Joe, to wrap
up this episode, our number five most downloaded episode, you know,
we began number ten was about Travis Decker's bones and
(43:11):
what went into finding the body of Travis Decker. And
but that's not where the story began. No, Our five,
number five most downloaded episode actually said the title was
horrifying details Decker sisters, deaths, bags on heads, hands, zip tied,
(43:33):
bloody handprint. Yeah, Joe, this was one of the episodes.
I cried when we got done.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Yeah, yeah, it really struck a chord. I think with
you and I both, and I know that you know,
our point of reference is always as dads and Grandpa's
and you know, the brutality here I think, you know,
the brutality of strangers is one thing. Brutality of those
that that we love and trust and trust our children
(44:01):
with this it's a different level. And you know, and
I even go back to you know, I think about
Kay and there's tons of them I could sight, but
probably you know, Chris Watts is another you know that
you know I think about that. You know, how can
you how can you perpetrate this? I don't, I don't.
(44:21):
I don't really care about what psychopathology you're dealing with
at any particular time. You're not going to tug my
heartstrings with that. I just I think about that life
that you have had a hand in creating, in how
you have the the willpower and uh kind of the
evil as a driver that you're going to rob the
(44:44):
world of of of these kids. And when I heard
about when I heard about the status that these baby's
bodies were found in out there, and that out there
in that wilderness, because Dave, you had to pipe in
sunshine into this area. This is not some this is
not some locale that is easily accessed. The fact that
(45:08):
you could do this to these children and leave them
and have them be subject to the wiles out there,
Dave scavengers all these sorts of things. It would appear
that he had prepared and there were a multitude of
these zip ties that were found adjacent to this camping
(45:30):
area and also that were I think found either in
the vehicle as well along with these bags. The bags,
the bags that these kids, and the bags are actually
the fatal tool here because they are this is not
(45:52):
this isn't one bag, it's multiple bags that were placed
over their head. So he's trying to trying to assure
that their lives are going to come to an end.
And you know, really painting a picture here because anybody
that is struggling, and people out there will understand this.
If you've ever had your breath taken away, if you've
(46:14):
you know, when you were a kid, if you ever
had siblings and you play pickpile and you're on the
bottom of the pile, you're going to flail and do
everything that you can to try to get your air.
All right, He restrained them, Dave. He restrained them with
these zip ties to prevent them from clawing or doing
anything or trying to fight him. This big, you know, burly,
outdoorsy veteran. You know, he's zip tye in the hands
(46:38):
of these babies. Just let that eight and five yo.
And you know that he would do this and one
by one systematically deprive them, deprive them of the breath
of life, as well as any future that may have
(47:00):
been there, not just for them, but for him. Man,
I don't care how rotten your life seems at any
particular time. I don't care how bad your past has been.
The fact that any potential for hope, you know, drained
away when those children drew their last And now this
poor mama is left here, you know, and I can't
(47:21):
even imagine the position she's in to this day.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Dave Peyton, Evelyn, Olivia Decker, Joe. When we did this episode,
Travis Decker was still missing. He was on the run. Yeah,
he was the lone suspect, but he was on the run.
And at the time, officials said, anyone who sees Decker
or knows of his whereabouts, she called, I'm on one. Now,
of course it has been resolved, and you know, they've
identified his body or what they found left.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
But that was our.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Number five most downloaded episode of the year, Shocking. Now
we've got the top four. We've got the final four
Joe for tomorrow, and I will tell you it is
a final four of Shocking.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
I will tell you.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
I'll give you that much.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Yeah, and not necessarily surprising. But again, as we go
back and we visit these episodes that brother Dave and
I have put together over this past year, it brings back,
It brings back the horror that we have tried to
do in the most sensitive ways we possibly can. But
describing the forensics behind how people lost their lives and
(48:29):
what happened to them actually in death is what we're
all about at Body Bags. Join us for episode two,
which will in fact be premiering tomorrow. I'm Joseph Scott
Morgan and this is Bodybys
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
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