July 7, 2026 • 51 mins
His talent made him a first-round pick of the New York Jets in the NFL. His use of the term "stabby looking wounds" would make him the butt of a lot of jokes in locker rooms around the country if he wasn’t accused of murdering his girlfriend! Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack take a look at the case of accused killer, Darron Lee, a 30-year-old football player who had the talent to be an all-pro but may very well end up being "all-CON", as in "convict". Lee is accused of killing his girlfriend, Gabriella Pepetuo, in their home in Ooltewah, Tennessee. The professor explains the autopsy report that documents 12 different injuries including a broken neck, severe brain trauma, stab Wounds to her legs, bruising across her body, a large bite mark on her shoulder, a large bite mark on her thigh, and significant facial trauma. Prosecutors claim Darron Lee inflicted the injuries on Gabriella - Darron Lee says Gabriella had narcolepsy and hurt herself after she fell asleep in the shower.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Quality Box with Joseph Scott More. You know, it's quite
fascinating when you're a child and you're kind of learning
how to speak. Little things that you pick up along
the way that you want to talk like an adult,
but you can't quite seem to get there. I had
(00:25):
that kind of problem when I was a little used
to love to play with little toy soldiers, you know,
the little green ones that came in a big box
and you had a hundred of them, had a bazooka
guy and a guy low crawling and guy with a bayonet.
I love my g I Joes, and I was fascinated
with weapons. It was during Vietnam, of course, and you'd
see it on television all the time. And my dad
(00:47):
was a marine, and I loved machine guns, or at
least the thought of it, but I never could quite
pronounce it, and for years and years you would use
the term machineum a gun. I got past it, but
you know some of us never get past it, dude.
And you know when your child use speak as a child,
(01:10):
but at some point in time you got to put
away childish things, so some of us never quite get there. Today,
we're gonna talk about a fellow who's got convictions in
multiple states and is now under investigation for an absolutely
(01:32):
horrific homicide. And the reason I mentioned vocalization of certain
things to put in an interesting, interesting Google search work,
he said, stabby. Now, I've come across a lot of
sharp force injuries. I've never used the term stabby. Today
(01:53):
we're going to talk about it a little bit. I'm
Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Backs and Dave,
I got to tell you, I've spent a long time
sitting in front of a camera on air. I've had
to talk to students that don't take notes and don't
(02:15):
pay attention, and every now and then I'll come away
with a stabby pain in my head from a severe headache.
That's but and I've used the term stabbing pain. But stabby.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I misread it what Darren Lee searched. I misread it
as shabby, and I thought that's an odd word, you know,
to use that it's something that our generation might use it.
It's actually a little older than that, and so I
thought he was searching for shabby, not stabby. It was
even worse when I realized it was stabby. Who we're
(02:51):
talking about is Darren Lee. And by the way, Joe,
when you mentioned I Spake as a child, you and
I both like the movie North Dallas forty. And you
remember the guy who was kind of playing the Tom
Landry type coach. He's always on the computer and he
looks at Nick Nolty's character and he says the apostle
(03:12):
Paul said, I spake as a child and put away
childish things. You know, he's telling him, you got to
grow up, You got it. That's it cracks me up.
You know that you and I both like North Dallas
forty and that today we're talking about Darren Lee. Who
if you're a football player and Joseph Scott Morgan is okay,
one day, one day, Joe, you're gonna have to share
some football glory stories because that's a tell you what, man.
(03:34):
Football players have a special place, you know. They It's
a team sport. It requires getting along with one another.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
And to be.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Honest with you, if you've ever watched a player come
out of college and you thought, wow, he got drafted
in the top twenty, He's got a lot going for him,
but somehow he doesn't click. It's because he doesn't fit
in for some reason or another. And I will tell you,
men know how other men are, and oftentimes we shy
(04:03):
away from those men who are not all together real men.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Darren Lee, in my estimation, Joe and a real man.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
He's a guy who came out of college drafted number nine, well,
number twenty. Overall, there were nineteen people picked before this guy.
In twenty sixteen. He came out of the Ohio State
as a linebacker, and the New York Jets drafted him
in the first round. That's guaranteed millions, baby.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
And yet five years later he's out of the league.
Five years later, he's got trouble. And here we are
ten years later and he's in jail charged with the murder,
the first degree murder and possible death penalty case Joe
of his girlfriend, twenty nine year old Gabriella Perpetuo, twenty
(04:52):
nine years old. It happened in Tennessee back in February,
when a nine to one one call was made by
Darren Lee. He said, Hey, my girlfriend is unresponsive. I
don't know what to do. When cop showed up, Well,
what happened. She's laying in the living room, Joe, there's
(05:15):
blood everywhere. And Darren Lee, the former first round pick
of the New York Jets, looks police in the eye
and says, you know, she has narcolepsy. I think she
might have fallen down in the shower and that's what
caused all these injuries.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
He said that with a straight faced Joe.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, that's okay. I'll put to you this way, with
injuries over multiple surfaces of her body. If she's got
an arcolepsy and she was driving a car, might buy it,
all right. If she fell out of a tree and
hit every single branch on the way down, might buy
But if you fall in the shower, and I've worked
(05:56):
cases with people that have fallen in showers, the elderly,
that's thing that can't get out.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Have you ever slipped in the shower, Joe.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
To me, Yeah, no, I'm so graceful in the shower
day slick surfaces covered with SuDS. No. I have fallen
multiple times, and yeah, it ain't fun. But I know
that when I do fall, when I do fall, I
have a single impact area, okay, or a focal area.
You might fall. You just got to think about it,
(06:24):
you know, because it's very dynamic obviously, And I was
making light of it, but yeah, you know, when you're
in a wet, soapy environment like that, you can slip.
You know. The most terrifying part about that is that
moment when you realize you're slipping, right, It's kind of
like being on ice and you're slipping and you don't
know where you're going to impact. Most of us, interestingly enough,
(06:45):
did you know, I don't know if it's part of
our lizard brain or whatever it is. Did you know
that when we do fall like this and it goes
into that kind of primitive survival thing, many of us
will kind of contract when we fall. Do you know that? Yeah,
many of us will. Unless you're infirmed in some way.
Our natural thing is to start to contract. Now, you
might not make it all the way there, but it
(07:06):
is in order to pull down like this and take
the impact. Now, some of us just you know, all
splay out, particularly if both feet fall out, you know,
come out from beneath you and you fall back. You
might strike your back, you might strike the back of
your head or an elbow. But if you've got and
I really need our friends to follow me on this,
(07:27):
if you've got multiple injuries over multiple planes of the body.
It's highly improbable that you would sustain at least what
they're saying here, Dave, all of these injuries from a
single event. We hear this so many times in cases
of abuse involving little ones, you know, because my question
(07:48):
always is, and here's the classic, yeah, you know you
just had a problem. He fell down the staircase. And
allow me to retort, okay, straight out of pulp fiction there, well,
allow me to retort, how many times did they fall
down the staircase? You know, because the injuries I'm seeing
(08:11):
ain't consistent with that, The age of the contusions that
you have ain't consistent with that, and how does it
and why do all of these marks look different, you know,
because they all have different, different characteristics to them that
separate them outdated.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Well, to get understanding where we are on this is
that Darren Lee has called police. He tells them she
fall in the shower, and yet she's not just unresponsive, Joe,
she's dead. She is dead in the living room. And
I've got to read the list, and I apologize for this,
but I don't want to mess it up.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Okay again, I.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Said already that police described this as finding blood in
every room.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
That's for starters.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
What Gabrielle Perpetuto from multiple blunt force injuries. Autopsy findings
listed twelve different injuries, including multiple hematomas, bone fractures, and
stab wounds.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
And here we go.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
She had a broken neck, severe brain trauma, bruising across
her body, a large bite mark on her shoulder, a
large bite mark on her thigh, significant facial trauma. There
was blood in every room, including the staircases, handrails. There
was blood on the walls, blood on the floors, blood
(09:34):
in the hallway, blood on the stairs, and you know what, Joe,
as they were searching and looking, it looked like some
things had been cleaned up. So they went out to
the garage and they searched a car that was registered
to both Darren Lee and Gabriella Pripetua. You know what
they found. They had to break out the blue Star
blood blood. It had been cleaned up, but it showed
(09:57):
under blue Star. You'll have to explain what that is.
But as you get the idea here, this was something
that took place in every room in the house.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
It had gone on for some time.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
It didn't happen from a fall asleep and fall in
the shower.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I'm going to tell you you really gave me pausitive
for a second because you mentioned something we don't talk
a lot about on body bags, and that's because when
we did talk about it, we talk about it being discredited,
and that's bite marks. Say, have you said that she
had what they're diagnosing as a BikeE mark on the
shoulder and was there another.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
One nice her thigh? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
On her thigh? Yeah? Wow, Yeah, that's that's quite striking.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I did get the stab wounds to her legs. Did
I forget that.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
She had multiple stab wounds to her legs, Joe? Just
to make sure that they're not confused with BikeE marks.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, and that could potentially be. That's plausible for that
to happen, because, first off, let's go back to the
anatomy of the tea, right right, there's a reason we
have these teeth up top and on the bottom, right
in the leading edge, and they're called incisors. Well, what
(11:11):
does that sound like, Well, it sounds like in sized wound, Okay,
And so what's fascinating about an incisor impression that is
left behind by human teeth? If it is done in
such a manner and biting is a very dynamic thing
because it's not just a person doing the biting, this
(11:31):
person that's struggling against the bite itself. So if you
get bit on the shoulder and you're trying to turn
away like this, that can change the nature of that
bite market. So this is one of the reasons bite
market has been discredited because it's so dynamic. It's really
difficult to apply a number to it to trace it
(11:52):
back to an individual. Now, you can qualify it, and
people need to understand that you can do a qualification
on it and say, well, you know, this looks like
a bite mark, but can you definitively say that that
is in fact a bite mark. Well, most quartz bite
mark evidence doesn't hold up anymore because you cannot quantify it.
(12:13):
So when you think about an insized injury, and you
talked about cuts, and we've done an entire episode on
sharp force injuries, When you think about cuts, we've got stabs,
and we've got slices, and we've got punctures. Okay, So
with a bite mark on the shoulder or the inner thigh,
and I've seen here's something interesting. I've seen bite marks
(12:33):
on the inner thighs of legs, and invariably they're always
associated with sexual assault or sexual domination, and it's there
is a paraphilia out there, which is a type of
sexual behavior that involves biting, and it generally it has
(12:54):
to do with literally terrorizing somebody by biting them and
whole holding onto them. Okay, where they're struggling against this. Now,
I don't know if that's the case here, but shoulders
are one thing I would I could envision someone, an assailant,
(13:14):
grabbing someone from behind and biting them on the shoulder
again like a child would, and holding onto them very
very tightly and inflicting incredible and incredible. I mean, how
many of you guys out there are all of our friends.
Did any of you guys go to kindergarten with the
kid there was always the kid that bit other kids
(13:36):
and they never would do anything about it. You know, Yeah,
little Jimmy's a bier. Get little Jimmy out of the class.
He's biting my kid. You know, my child went to
school with a kid that bidding, you know, but there's
always but it's a very infantile thing to do. It's
it's almost very primal, right you think of you know
well who bites well, dogs fight, right, dogs fight, You
(13:58):
know that that resistance are holding on to something. But
at the higher level with humans, there's a strong sexual
connotation with Bidy. One of the most famous biers out there,
Ted Bundy. Bundy, that's what put him in the whoscout,
That's what eventually put him in the chair down in
Florida day.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
I will tell you if you ever really want to
take a look at by mark evidence, look at that,
not just for what happened at Kyle MegaHouse with Ted Bundy,
but lua Bundy did while he was in jail. It's
more what Bundy did to his own teeth while awaiting
trial means more than the fact that they know it
(14:37):
was him the bit into the victims. They didn't need
to prove that part to convict him. I mean, you know,
there was plenty of other evidence.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
But that was part of it. Joe.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
As we moved through this story, a couple other things
that do come up. And by now you understand, guys
that we're now talking about a violent struggle that took
place over a period of time. It wasn't fast, it
wasn't in a hurry. There were other things in the
house that police saw. And again I'm picturing Darren Lee
(15:07):
telling police I think she has narcolepsy bad enough that
she fell in the shower and ended up like this. Meanwhile,
they're looking around this house and they're moving boxes because
they were moving in Joe, so there's already boxes everywhere.
But there was a shattered microwave, oven glass all over
(15:28):
the place. There was a violent struggle that moved from
room to room in that house as Gabriella tried to
save her life, tried to get away from the man
who allegedly killed her. It goes down in one of
those horror stories that we hear. Adding in the bite
Mark Joe, I think that it was part of the
(15:51):
terrorism that went on with her.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I have to agree. And if we are to believe
what we have been told, we're talking about an individual.
And let's just think of it in terms of football.
The sole purpose of a linebacker's existence is to attack
and destroy. How much more so when an eighteenth round
(16:18):
draft pick in an NFL draft attacks a defenseless woman. Allegedly,
there was a book that was written many years ago,
(16:40):
and it's actually involving a case from my old office
down in New Orleans, the Jefferson Pierce Corns Office. Quite
famous case. As a matter of fact, it's famous incense
that Henry Lee got involved in it, and I knew
Henry and he made frequent trips to New Orleans. But
the name of the well, the name of the book
(17:01):
is called Blood Will Tell. And we'll have to do
an episode on this, brother Dave, remind me. But it
centers around two guys that went to work on one
another inside of their own house with aluminum softball bats
and beat each other all day long. In the interim,
the mother of the child in the house died. The
(17:22):
child had brain damage, and the mother, of course, was
the wife of one of the assailants in the house.
They even stopped to eat cereal in the middle of
the day as they were beating each other with bats.
And the thing that I learned from that case in particular,
and this is when I was a very young investigator,
is what does blood deposition tell us about movement in
(17:46):
the dynamics of blood deposition? And it was really it
was really brought brought to bear when doctor Lee talked
about that case extensively, and you could, if you've ever
wanted to try to understand things like cast off and
passive dripping and all these sorts of things. Because you're
(18:06):
talking about bats that are being used, you're not talking
about firearm. And then people that are bleeding and they're
moving around. It's incredibly frenetic. And here in this case, Dave,
according to what we're hearing, is that we have a
subject that the victim is being maybe chased about the
house or drug about the house. Either way, we've got
(18:29):
a lot of movement and sounds like we've got a
lot of bleeding.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Well, and that's the part that I think was not well.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I hope y'all understand when I say something's fascinating or interesting,
it's not too demean what took place in reality, Joe.
As we talk about these it's fascinating how somebody like
Darren Lee, a college educated man, a man who's spent
a few years in the NFL, would still think like
a child that you know.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
That she fell down and got all these injuries.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
When the facts, the evidence sitting in front of you,
it looks like a slaughter has taken place. And I
need somehow to understand what we're gonna learn, Joe, because
as I mentioned, now we've got broken glass in the house.
We've got the shattered microwave oven, which indicates I'm thinking
he picked it up and threw it, allegedly threw it
(19:23):
at her. I'm guessing, you know, because you've in a fight.
You're just doing everything out of just a manic craze.
But hey, let me share something with you before we
go too much further. All right, Darren Lee, just so
you know, he didn't wake up on the wrong side
of the bed allegedly that day, Darren Lee, nine months
before this day, do you know what Gabriella Purpetua did?
(19:45):
Nine months before the day that she was killed? Nine
months before the day, nine months before her death, Gabriella
Purpetua paid Darren Lee's remaining court costs tied to his
Ohio conviction on attempt at assault in a domestic violence
issue that was one that he was.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
On probation for.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
She paid the fine for him still had a case
going on in Florida, which, by the way, Darren Lee
was not allowed to leave the state of Florida. So
by leaving the state of Florida and moving with Gabriella
to Tennessee, he was in violation of his probation, and
his probation would have been revoked and he would have
been put in jail all before she died. So there
(20:29):
are going to be a number of lawsuits that come
out of this, I guarantee you, but actually allegedly. Now,
I guess we have to say that because this has
not been adjudicated at this point, Darren Lee is just
accused of this heinous murder. Gabriella Perpetua is twenty nine
years old and she is dead, but he is.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Only accused of her a murder. He is in jail.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
They prosecution has not decided if it's going to be
a death penalty case, but it is death penalty eligible.
Joe and Darren Lee, ten years after he's draft in
the NFL in the first round, is sitting in a
county jail awaiting his next day in court. There was
blood in every room of this house, Joe. It showed
a struggle that had gone on for a long time.
As the investigator, can you walk into this scene looking
(21:15):
at the injuries of the victim and the evidence that
you see all around and match up the blood, the spatter,
the blood pat the broken glass, the walls, the floor
of the ceiling. Can you match that up to the
injuries on the victim's body.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
You cannot definitively say that the blood that you see
deposited right here actually originated from a specific site. Now
you can hold forth an opinion about it, right, And
that's what experts do. We offer up opinions. It's up
to the jury as to whether or not to accept them.
And you know, you're challenged in court by the defense
(21:56):
or the prosecution, dependent upon who the expert is. However,
there are certain injuries that you can look at and
say there's a higher likelihood, for instance, that the blood
deposition right here that I have. I mean all of
us have probably heard about arterial spray. If you're caught
in an artery arterial If you're caught in an artery,
(22:16):
say with a stab one to the throat, when that
is removed the knife is you have this spurting that's
coming out. So if someone standing adjacent to the wall,
you can see a spurt pattern that comes onto the wall,
and sometimes it has kind of an arcing appearance to it.
The droplets many times might be finer than say, for instance,
(22:37):
if you've got you've got an event that comes off
of a bat striking somebody in the head. Okay, the
the droplets of blood might be larger, And again a
lot of this is dependent upon velocity, and that's how
we classify. We actually classify three main categories of blood
(22:58):
deposition by losty low velocity, medium and high. High almost
exclusively goes to firearms. You know, you've got individuals that
are being struck with a projectile flying through space, many
of them are supersonic rounds. They're striking striking an individual,
and of course you get that kind of fine misting
(23:20):
that comes about as a result of that. Now you
can have that same injury from a gunshot wound and
it's no longer that dynamic first impact. Now you've kind
of got this oozing blood that's coming out or it's
free falling and dripping. You think about, say, for instance,
a medium velocity strike, which is something that you might
you might get with a fist, You can certainly get
(23:42):
it with a baseball bat or a hammer. You know,
you're kind of levering, using a lever to strike this individual,
transferring to a lot of energy onto this but not
as much as you would see with a firearm. And
then you know, you get you get low velocity, which
many times that comes about certain as a punch or
maybe a kick to the face, you're not generating as
(24:03):
much injury, but the deposition of blood is going to
look completely different. Now you can look at the injuries
on the body and you can see points where the
skin has literally been torn, either through a laceration or
through a cut. You know, we talked about in size
to injuries, and you can kind of hypothesize the origins
of this. The other thing is if somebody is popping
(24:26):
the nose or the mouth, think about Nancy Guthrie right
here where we're talking about free falling kind of gravitationally
dependent blood drop that's falling away, say with a bloody
nose or bleeding bleeding lip, that's going to kind of
passively fall and you'll kind of get these perfect They're
not necessarily perfectly circular, but they'll be closer to it
(24:48):
than something that kind of has an elliptical shape to it.
So you interpret this blood around the house. Now, I
think the most telling bit to this is that let's
say someone is attacked. I'll just give you an example
on a second floor of a house. That's where the
attack starts and they have been punched, pummeled, stab kicked.
(25:12):
We're not going to say shot in this case because
there's no indication of fire and play, but all of
those injuries coming to bear. Well, what's really important here
is you can see where the initial point of attack is.
But what let's just say, for instance, what about the
victim trying to escape, right, and they're on the second floor, Well,
(25:33):
just grabbing a handrail, right, she's got blood deposited on
her hand. Well, that contact on that rail is going
to look different than say, if she was struck in
the nose and that blood was kind of cast off
of a fist or off of a hammer or something.
She might lean against the wall. That's a transfer, okay,
where we'll have transfer onto the wall because she's she's
kind of rattled. You can actually see where somebody is
(25:55):
like crawling, I've seen this, and they lean into the wall,
and you might have these very concise areas where just
imagine she's crawling down the stairs and you've got these
little depositions that are coming here, and she's got blood
in her hair. She's leaning. You can actually see the
form of the hair. It looks like a bloody mop
has been drug across the wall or across the floor. Now,
(26:17):
is she doing this under her own power or is
she being actually dragged along the way, you know, with
bloody deposition in into her hair, and then she's deposited
in a specific area where she is left to bleed
out the fact, Dave, I think that's really that's that's
really impactful. Here is something you've said a couple of times.
(26:40):
The police are actually saying, every room, now, how do
you get blood? If you've got two people, how do
you get blood in every room of the house. I
don't I don't understand that unless somebody is making an
effort perhaps to go behind themselves and clean up in
(27:01):
these environments. Maybe they're searching for towels, and they're going
into the bathroom and they're pulling towels off the shelf,
and you've got blood on the wall. Maybe they grabbed
the door knob to the bathroom and made a contact there,
or they're leaning against the wall while they're thinking about
what to do next. They're at the kitchen sink and
they pull open the cabinets and now the contacted the
cabinet doors beneath the sink, or maybe they lean on
(27:24):
the sink and they're thinking about it. Maybe they turned
the knob on the spicket at the sink. Does it
necessarily mean that there was an attack in every single
space in that house. Not necessarily, but you have to
consider every bit of it day.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
And you know, Joe with this particular case where we
have Darren Lee and his girlfriend Gabriella. Obviously to me
and I know that this could be wrong, but based
on what we know, she didn't fall in the shower
as he claimed. But we do have enough evidence now
because you know, when when you go through the legal process,
(28:03):
you know, you go to court and you do have
an opportunity for bail, you know, and if you want bail,
you know you have to present your reasons, you know
why you won't fly.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
But the prosecution also gets to talk.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
To the judge about what they have and whether or not,
you know, you should be allowed out, and of course
you know whether it's going to be bound over for trial.
I mean, these things are preliminary issues. They have to
take place, and it's because of the preliminary things, uh
from binding it over for trial, discovered deciding about what
we let him out and you know, before trough, we
(28:36):
got a lot of information, Joe. And the information that
we got included that before calling the police, Darren Lee
use chat GPT like a defense lawyer, Joe. He got
on the computer and used an AI bot to give
(29:00):
him answers to the problem he was seeing. And can
I share one of these things that he asked for an answer?
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I love to hear that. I can't wait to see
where this goes.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
With that, he asked questions, and in the questions he
gave back, he gave commentary, okay, like what do I
do if? And it's almost like he knows somebody else
is going to see this right. This is what he
wrote among the messages that prosecutors said that Lee sent
(29:31):
to chat GPT. Don't know what to do right now.
Fiance did her crazy thing again and now she's messed up.
I wake up and she has two swollen eyes. I
didn't do anything self inflicted. She stabbed herself, slid her eye.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
I DK. I don't know, but she isn't waking up
or responding.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
What do I do? Early in this you talked about
I spake as a child. Does this sound like an adult,
mature human being? Asking a question, or does it sound
like the most messed up thing you've ever heard in
your life?
Speaker 1 (30:13):
No, I don't think he's spending time in philosophy class
at the Ohio State University trying to understand communications here. No,
I don't he didn't take the logic class that they
offer in the philosophy department. No, it wouldn't seem to
me at least, because this is absolutely absurd, and correct
me if I'm wrong. Dave, is this where the term
stabby comes up?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, here we go search.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Yeah, I was going to walk into that one. A
couple other things that he came up with.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
One of the questions was concerning the physical signs of
injury of slip and fall in the bathroom or shower,
you know, apparently relating to whether injuries could be explained
as accidental, which is exactly what he ended up trying
to do, okay. Prosecutors also alleged that he asked whether
bruising around both eyes and what we're described as quote
(31:06):
two stabby looking wounds could result from a fall. He's saying,
she has two wounds on her body that look like
stab wounds, but they're only stabby looking. Could they have
happened from a fall in the shower. He's asking a
computer an AI bought. Is it possible? Is that legitimately?
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Could? I add?
Speaker 2 (31:31):
If this is what the next generation of people thinks,
Joe for real, if this is the rationale I fear
for tomorrow?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Well, yeah, and I gotta tell you it's certainly going
to give us more breadcrumbs of information, isn't it. We're
going to be able to figure things out a lot
easier because anybody that would go and speak to a
bot to come up with an explanation for these extensive injuries,
(32:04):
the black eyes in particular, Yeah, that could be particularly
self inflicted. I just cannot imagine in what universe an
individual would think that this is wise. I mean, we're
surrounded by this technology all the time. There are so
many stories out there now about how people can be
(32:26):
tracked down by the things that they say. They seek
out those things that are demonstrable in an electronic sense.
I can tell you this, The electronics in this case,
combined with these injuries that she has sustained, are going
to be very, very difficult to simply explain away. A
(32:48):
try totally smugs brother, Dave. I got to tell you
many cases that you and I cover on body backs.
We're having these discussions and we're thinking, you know, she whiz, Yeah,
(33:12):
this is really awful. We've got several injuries, Dave, we
don't have just I think saying several injuries is an understatement.
This is a laundry list of things. And Dave, there
are a number of these injuries right here that in
and of themselves would be fatal. She's got multiple fatal
(33:34):
injuries here, brother, Dave.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I think the part about this that really bothers me,
and I'm hoping that you can shed some light on it, okay,
is that we got twelve different injuries, including the multiple
hematomas and the bone fractures. But we know that her
face took a lot of beating, and we know that
she has a skull fracture. What happens to a when
(34:00):
they've got that going on in their skull, you know,
when they've got all these other injuries too, I mean,
and just like this constant pummeling, I cannot imagine you
know that that a human can put up with a
whole lot. You know, it just seems too severe.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah, it really does. And this is somebody whoever the
assailant is, in this case somebody that is really on
the attack here. You know how we had previously spoken
about the black eyes, and I'm saying that plural when
you're getting into this chat GPT thing and asking questions
and all of this. Most of the time, when we
(34:39):
think about bilateral blackened eyes, some people refer to them
as raccoon eyes. You'll see this as and when people
have had like some kind of rhinoplasty, no surgery, that
sort of thing. Because these bones and face, and we
have to understand the facial bones are part of the skull.
(35:03):
Some people try to disconnect us too, they're not. They're
very intimately connected. These bones are very very thin in here.
So lots of times when you have bilateral black eyes, okay,
you're here, we're thinking of Basler skull fracture and that
means like at the floor of the skull, you'll have
(35:23):
a fracture line that runs through it. Well, what does
that mean, Morgan, Why are you saying that relative to
black eyes, Because that blood actually seeps in to the
suborbital areas right here, and you'll get kind of the
swollen swollen eyes. If you've ever seen many times you'll
see these boxers. You're seeing a boxer that's been just
absolutely just pummel in. Their eyes are swollen out. Well,
(35:44):
you've got fractures the facial bones. You've also got like
nasal fractures where they've been popped in the nose and
these things, and in extreme cases you can actually have
fracturing in the floor of the skull. This takes, Dave,
I cannot express to you how much force this takes.
And most of the time you're not going to achieve
these kind of fractures by single blow, okay, unless you're
(36:06):
like in a car accident. What this tells me is
that there is a high probability that we're talking about
somebody just absolutely pounding on the face over and over.
And it would not be too far of a reach
to say that a foot might be involved, or a
knee to the head, or the facial structures that certainly
(36:29):
happened along the way. And these bones are very very
fragile that are in here. We think that they're very resilient.
I'm sure many of you are friends out there have
had a fractured nose, this lovely thing that I sport.
I've had multiple fractured nose in football and well fight,
so we won't get into that, but I have had
my nose fractured on several occasions and very very painful,
(36:52):
and yes, both times I came away with bilateral broke,
blackened eyes. You get it to that, and then they're
able to at autopsy make this diagnosis of severe brain trauma.
Well what does that look like? Well, brain trauma, this
(37:12):
is kind of what we look for hemorrhage in the brain.
So some of the levels that we're talking about, we
have like epidural. The brain is actually enclosed in a
sack called the dura. If you've ever seen a placenta,
a placenta and a dura sack doesn't look that all
(37:33):
that different. But the brain kind of floats in the
sack and it's a wash with cerebral spinal fluid, all right,
and it acts kind of like a shock absorber. Can
you imagine just having your brain sitting inside of a
skull and it's not cushioned in any way. Well, that
dura sack actually cushions the brain, Okay, And so you
(37:55):
have epidural, which means that there is hemorrhage between the
skull the internal table of skull and the actual dura
which separates the surface of the brain from skull. Then
you can have subdural hematoma, which means it's in between
the dura and the surface of the brain, okay. And
(38:16):
then you can have subarachnoid, which means subracnoid below the
surface of the brain, in dwelling in the brain. So
those are three, and there's multiple other kinds of injuries,
but just and a lot of this arises out of
bloot force trauma. Severity of bloot force trauma, and when
they're talking about brain damage, there are going to be
(38:36):
focal areas, probably massive areas of her brain that have
this indwelling or overlapping hemorrhage in there. You're going to
have destruction and compromise of the brain's ability to function.
And it's a death sentence, Dave, It's an absolute death sentence.
You have a lot of hematomas all over her those
(38:57):
are going to be specific areas where she has been
struck and Dave, I got to tell you, I was
really surprised by this because this is something you don't
normally see in an alleged domestic attack where you've got
a subject that is found and they've got injuries all
over the rest of her body. You see it in
a movie you don't normally see. I seen, doesn't she
(39:19):
have a broken neck?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
That was one of the first things that caught my attention.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Broken neck along with all of the other injuries Joe,
And I'm thinking, could that have happened in the process
of a beating that, you know, because I'm well, it
just doesn't sound right. But you know what I'm after,
Is it possible that that was the neck breaking was incidental,
that it wasn't intentional, that he didn't be the suspect
(39:50):
broken neck during the course of the beating, or did
would it have to be specific?
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Would they have to go after that?
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I think it's an interesting dynamic, and that's one of
the reasons I'm mentioned and kind of these causal causal
factors that are that are factoring in. You know how
I talked about stomping and the knee, right.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
So.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
It does in fact take a lot of force to
stab a neck. Okay, I think you know, people they'll
see movies and whatnot and they'll see somebody walk up
behind somebody and you know, break the neck like that,
and yeah, that's possible. But most of the time when
you have broken necks that comes about as a result
of literally very specific blunt force trauma. You get it
(40:32):
a lot in car accidents, Okay, you can get it
a lot and falls from height. So how do you
replicate that, you know, kind of the energy transfer that
you have with a fall from height or a car
or a motor vehicle accident. Well, I think that it's
possible that you can land a knee on the back
of somebody's neck. Let's say they're laying in a prom position,
(40:54):
face down. They're already you know, kind of in a
greatly diminished state because they've had the hell beat out
of them, They've got stab wounds or cuts. And then
you have somebody that just like they're in a wrestling
rink or something, you know, one of the WWE or something,
and they just kind of launch with a knee into
the back of the neck. With that amount of force
(41:16):
and transferring down that would in fact snap the neck.
You could also probably do it with an elbow. You
could certainly stomp on somebody on the back of their
neck and break the neck. I will be very interested
when we get the autopsy report to try to understand
where any indwelling hemorrhage is because with the broken neck
you're going to have associated the soft tissue around there,
(41:40):
you will actually have a hemorrhage into that with a
broken neck, but also the vessels that run through the spine.
You've got these tiny little what are called framen that
run through all the vertebral bodies. Frame is a fancy
word for a hole. That's where the vessels and if
a neck is broken, you can actually see these kind
of uh hemorrhage points along the way if the vessel's
(42:04):
compromised inside those bony structures in the neck. The level
of violence here, Dave, this is so rage filled when
you think about what this poor lady was subjected to.
Not to mention bites they're saying too, right, we're talking
about the shoulder and the thigh. I'm almost certain that
(42:27):
in a case like this they will have done a
rape kit, and most assaults on women, if I'm the investigator,
I'm going to strongly recommend a rape kit because I
want to know it can give you a lot of
even if they're in an intimate relationship, it can give
you insight into those moments before death if there was
(42:51):
some kind of intimate contact at that moment, tom or
was this act started during the midst of intimate contact,
because you want to try to paint this picture out right,
and if you don't capture it an autopsy, you'll never
get it. So I would imagine they probably did rake
kit on her as well.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Then, all right, Now, the one thing that we let
off with early on, Joe was talking about how there
was blood in every room, including a vehicle that was
registered to both of them. The investigators found cleaning products
in bags in the house, so there was a belief
that there was a pretty significant cleanup effort that was attempted,
(43:32):
but it was just too gone.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
There was too much there to clean up.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
But and again I go back to remember the initial
call to nine one one is my girlfriend. My fiance
is unresponsive. She's laying on the floor, she's unresponsive. And
yet I don't know how long she had been there
when he called Joe, but it was long enough to
get cleaning supplies and to try to clean up the blood,
cleaned it up enough that when they got to the car,
(44:00):
investigators trying to follow the different trails, I guess they
saw a sign of blood, but they didn't immediately see
it with the naked eye. So what do you do
when you think you have something?
Speaker 3 (44:11):
What do you do? Joe?
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Well, you know, most of the time, I think everybody's
default position, and it's the term that we hear the most.
They'll say, did you lumin all the same? Luminol is
the first generation reactant that we have used over the years.
And you know, I remember being back in the day
where you used to have to make it up, literally
make this stuff up.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
You had to make the luminol.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, you had to make like coming.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
A spray can No, really, I assumed it came in
a thing that you went to the swat room and
there it is, get the luminol, let's go.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
And I also, by the way, it wasn't you had.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Something else that you told me. You have to do
it real quick too, Yeah, you do. It doesn't stay.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
It's very very unstable, and that's why many people have
have changed over to blue Star now. And blue Star
works on the same principle it's going to. It's going to.
What happens is is that the blue Star actually interacts
with the iron that's contained within hemoglobin, okay, which is
(45:13):
a component of blood. Remember blood, blood is not a
standalone substance. Okay, so it's it's it's got multiple components
to it. You know, red blood cells, white blood cells,
You've got serum, you know. All.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
Yeah, I swear I should have paid more attention to
biology in high school because I know I've heard all
this before.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
It's just it's a refresher, it's okay. Yeah, but yeah,
So blue Star is actually more stable than luminol. The
cool thing about it, it's actually more sensitive than I luminol. Okay,
So let's just say, if somebody goes through and they
apply cleaning agents to a specific area, luminol might not
(45:56):
get the same it won't have the same levels scitivity
as blue Star will. When you're trying to get the hit. Now,
you still have to apply it and try to visualize
it in a little like conditions. Here's the other thing
that's the upside with blue Star. It's got a longer
lasting glow.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
You know, I remember with luminol you had to really
be careful about your shutter speed because you want it
open and as soon as the lights go off, boom,
you have to capture and snap it out like that
you know, really really quick. If you want to catch
the luminescence. Blue star lasts a bit longer. It's high,
it's it's it has a higher level of sensitivity. It's
(46:34):
certainly safer to use, and it's more stable than luminol too,
so that's the benefit of it. And if you go
through a residence like this, and I don't really know
at this time how many applications they did, I would
imagine that if they found what they thought was blood
and Dave, it can be the tiniest little spec that
(46:56):
they might see on the door jam of not the doorjam,
but the side side of the interior wall of the door.
The handle might be a little bit on the on
the dashboard. That's an indication that maybe they cleaned up.
And what's what's really wild is when you go to
a scene and somebody is actually cleaned up, cleaned up,
(47:18):
and you have these massive kind of swipes and wipes
on the surface where you can tell they've run a
rag over the area and you can't see it with
the NA did I and you apply this luminescence to
it and it's like pop like that, it just like
strikes you. I mean, it's like one of the most
striking things you'll see. You'll see this kind of really
(47:39):
intense glow. It almost looks like like, I don't know,
like a Prussian blue. You know, it's just really striking,
you know, very visible like this, and you see it
all over the place. And when you snap that and
you have that in your images and you can take
that court and you can have somebody that understands technology
(48:00):
can explain to the jury what they're looking at. And
this stuff might be everywhere. Can you imagine how powerful
this is important. I mean, it's one thing to see blood,
but if you can demonstrate the movement of blood as
a result of somebody trying to clean it up and
the deposition of where it was all the more is
so impactful to a jury when they see this, because
not only do you have deposition of blood or evidence
(48:22):
that blood was deposited there, then you go to another
level and you have an expert say, yeah, somebody tried
to clean this up. Well automatically, the jury is kind
of like catching sili over at the defendant sitting at
the table. This is going to be very powerful stuff
in this case.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
State, and that is where we're headed next. It has
not been adjudicated.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
As we mentioned, Darren Lee, former first round draft picked
in twenty sixteen of the New York Jets, a linebacker
out of the Ohio state, is accused. He is in
jail awaiting trial now. He has not been granted bond,
so he will be held until trial. He is on
probation from Florida and Ohio and on previous domestic violence issues.
(49:04):
He is in jail. He's not going to be let out.
And it could be Joe a death penalty case. But
it is going to come down to what police saw
and some of the evidence you've heard about on this show.
I think the chat GPT is what's really going to
get a lot of attention, But the reality is what
will convict him isn't what he asked a computer.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
It's going to be the forensics.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yeah, I think that will be brother. And what's going
to be fascinating for me to watch is the level
of violence in these other cases that he was involved
in in other states. Particularly interesting to me is will
any of that evidence be allowed at his trial? Okay,
because you know, if you let's just say that this
(49:46):
was a world where he had the chance of bailing
out you know, bonding out. Okay, they would look at
his previous history in these circumstances and say that's island history.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Man.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
As a matter of fact, his name is supposed to
be up here, he's supposed to be down in Florida.
You know that was a condition of him being in
the system down there. And oh, by the bye, you've
got this other violent case up in Ohio. Will they
allow any of that stuff to come into court? I
don't know. That's going to be for the lawyers to
(50:21):
figure out and whether or not the judge will allow it.
But I do know this. There are people out there
right now, my friends, that are struggling with domestic violence
all over the country. You don't hear about them. You
really don't, because so many people are terrified. They're terrified
of what their alleged sailant can do to them. I
(50:43):
don't think that this case is a one off. I
think that we've probably got a history of things here,
and just like many people have histories, keep that in mind.
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body by s
Quality Box with Joseph Scott More. You know, it's quite
fascinating when you're a child and you're kind of learning
how to speak. Little things that you pick up along
the way that you want to talk like an adult,
but you can't quite seem to get there. I had
(00:25):
that kind of problem when I was a little used
to love to play with little toy soldiers, you know,
the little green ones that came in a big box
and you had a hundred of them, had a bazooka
guy and a guy low crawling and guy with a bayonet.
I love my g I Joes, and I was fascinated
with weapons. It was during Vietnam, of course, and you'd
see it on television all the time. And my dad
(00:47):
was a marine, and I loved machine guns, or at
least the thought of it, but I never could quite
pronounce it, and for years and years you would use
the term machineum a gun. I got past it, but
you know some of us never get past it, dude.
And you know when your child use speak as a child,
(01:10):
but at some point in time you got to put
away childish things, so some of us never quite get there. Today,
we're gonna talk about a fellow who's got convictions in
multiple states and is now under investigation for an absolutely
(01:32):
horrific homicide. And the reason I mentioned vocalization of certain
things to put in an interesting, interesting Google search work,
he said, stabby. Now, I've come across a lot of
sharp force injuries. I've never used the term stabby. Today
(01:53):
we're going to talk about it a little bit. I'm
Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Backs and Dave,
I got to tell you, I've spent a long time
sitting in front of a camera on air. I've had
to talk to students that don't take notes and don't
(02:15):
pay attention, and every now and then I'll come away
with a stabby pain in my head from a severe headache.
That's but and I've used the term stabbing pain. But stabby.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I misread it what Darren Lee searched. I misread it
as shabby, and I thought that's an odd word, you know,
to use that it's something that our generation might use it.
It's actually a little older than that, and so I
thought he was searching for shabby, not stabby. It was
even worse when I realized it was stabby. Who we're
(02:51):
talking about is Darren Lee. And by the way, Joe,
when you mentioned I Spake as a child, you and
I both like the movie North Dallas forty. And you
remember the guy who was kind of playing the Tom
Landry type coach. He's always on the computer and he
looks at Nick Nolty's character and he says the apostle
(03:12):
Paul said, I spake as a child and put away
childish things. You know, he's telling him, you got to
grow up, You got it. That's it cracks me up.
You know that you and I both like North Dallas
forty and that today we're talking about Darren Lee. Who
if you're a football player and Joseph Scott Morgan is okay,
one day, one day, Joe, you're gonna have to share
some football glory stories because that's a tell you what, man.
(03:34):
Football players have a special place, you know. They It's
a team sport. It requires getting along with one another.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
And to be.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Honest with you, if you've ever watched a player come
out of college and you thought, wow, he got drafted
in the top twenty, He's got a lot going for him,
but somehow he doesn't click. It's because he doesn't fit
in for some reason or another. And I will tell you,
men know how other men are, and oftentimes we shy
(04:03):
away from those men who are not all together real men.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Darren Lee, in my estimation, Joe and a real man.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
He's a guy who came out of college drafted number nine, well,
number twenty. Overall, there were nineteen people picked before this guy.
In twenty sixteen. He came out of the Ohio State
as a linebacker, and the New York Jets drafted him
in the first round. That's guaranteed millions, baby.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
And yet five years later he's out of the league.
Five years later, he's got trouble. And here we are
ten years later and he's in jail charged with the murder,
the first degree murder and possible death penalty case Joe
of his girlfriend, twenty nine year old Gabriella Perpetuo, twenty
(04:52):
nine years old. It happened in Tennessee back in February,
when a nine to one one call was made by
Darren Lee. He said, Hey, my girlfriend is unresponsive. I
don't know what to do. When cop showed up, Well,
what happened. She's laying in the living room, Joe, there's
(05:15):
blood everywhere. And Darren Lee, the former first round pick
of the New York Jets, looks police in the eye
and says, you know, she has narcolepsy. I think she
might have fallen down in the shower and that's what
caused all these injuries.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
He said that with a straight faced Joe.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, that's okay. I'll put to you this way, with
injuries over multiple surfaces of her body. If she's got
an arcolepsy and she was driving a car, might buy it,
all right. If she fell out of a tree and
hit every single branch on the way down, might buy
But if you fall in the shower, and I've worked
(05:56):
cases with people that have fallen in showers, the elderly,
that's thing that can't get out.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Have you ever slipped in the shower, Joe.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
To me, Yeah, no, I'm so graceful in the shower
day slick surfaces covered with SuDS. No. I have fallen
multiple times, and yeah, it ain't fun. But I know
that when I do fall, when I do fall, I
have a single impact area, okay, or a focal area.
You might fall. You just got to think about it,
(06:24):
you know, because it's very dynamic obviously, And I was
making light of it, but yeah, you know, when you're
in a wet, soapy environment like that, you can slip.
You know. The most terrifying part about that is that
moment when you realize you're slipping, right, It's kind of
like being on ice and you're slipping and you don't
know where you're going to impact. Most of us, interestingly enough,
(06:45):
did you know, I don't know if it's part of
our lizard brain or whatever it is. Did you know
that when we do fall like this and it goes
into that kind of primitive survival thing, many of us
will kind of contract when we fall. Do you know that? Yeah,
many of us will. Unless you're infirmed in some way.
Our natural thing is to start to contract. Now, you
might not make it all the way there, but it
(07:06):
is in order to pull down like this and take
the impact. Now, some of us just you know, all
splay out, particularly if both feet fall out, you know,
come out from beneath you and you fall back. You
might strike your back, you might strike the back of
your head or an elbow. But if you've got and
I really need our friends to follow me on this,
(07:27):
if you've got multiple injuries over multiple planes of the body.
It's highly improbable that you would sustain at least what
they're saying here, Dave, all of these injuries from a
single event. We hear this so many times in cases
of abuse involving little ones, you know, because my question
(07:48):
always is, and here's the classic, yeah, you know you
just had a problem. He fell down the staircase. And
allow me to retort, okay, straight out of pulp fiction there, well,
allow me to retort, how many times did they fall
down the staircase? You know, because the injuries I'm seeing
(08:11):
ain't consistent with that, The age of the contusions that
you have ain't consistent with that, and how does it
and why do all of these marks look different, you know,
because they all have different, different characteristics to them that
separate them outdated.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Well, to get understanding where we are on this is
that Darren Lee has called police. He tells them she
fall in the shower, and yet she's not just unresponsive, Joe,
she's dead. She is dead in the living room. And
I've got to read the list, and I apologize for this,
but I don't want to mess it up.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Okay again, I.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Said already that police described this as finding blood in
every room.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
That's for starters.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
What Gabrielle Perpetuto from multiple blunt force injuries. Autopsy findings
listed twelve different injuries, including multiple hematomas, bone fractures, and
stab wounds.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
And here we go.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
She had a broken neck, severe brain trauma, bruising across
her body, a large bite mark on her shoulder, a
large bite mark on her thigh, significant facial trauma. There
was blood in every room, including the staircases, handrails. There
was blood on the walls, blood on the floors, blood
(09:34):
in the hallway, blood on the stairs, and you know what, Joe,
as they were searching and looking, it looked like some
things had been cleaned up. So they went out to
the garage and they searched a car that was registered
to both Darren Lee and Gabriella Pripetua. You know what
they found. They had to break out the blue Star
blood blood. It had been cleaned up, but it showed
(09:57):
under blue Star. You'll have to explain what that is.
But as you get the idea here, this was something
that took place in every room in the house.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
It had gone on for some time.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
It didn't happen from a fall asleep and fall in
the shower.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I'm going to tell you you really gave me pausitive
for a second because you mentioned something we don't talk
a lot about on body bags, and that's because when
we did talk about it, we talk about it being discredited,
and that's bite marks. Say, have you said that she
had what they're diagnosing as a BikeE mark on the
shoulder and was there another.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
One nice her thigh? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
On her thigh? Yeah? Wow, Yeah, that's that's quite striking.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I did get the stab wounds to her legs. Did
I forget that.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
She had multiple stab wounds to her legs, Joe? Just
to make sure that they're not confused with BikeE marks.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, and that could potentially be. That's plausible for that
to happen, because, first off, let's go back to the
anatomy of the tea, right right, there's a reason we
have these teeth up top and on the bottom, right
in the leading edge, and they're called incisors. Well, what
(11:11):
does that sound like, Well, it sounds like in sized wound, Okay,
And so what's fascinating about an incisor impression that is
left behind by human teeth? If it is done in
such a manner and biting is a very dynamic thing
because it's not just a person doing the biting, this
(11:31):
person that's struggling against the bite itself. So if you
get bit on the shoulder and you're trying to turn
away like this, that can change the nature of that
bite market. So this is one of the reasons bite
market has been discredited because it's so dynamic. It's really
difficult to apply a number to it to trace it
(11:52):
back to an individual. Now, you can qualify it, and
people need to understand that you can do a qualification
on it and say, well, you know, this looks like
a bite mark, but can you definitively say that that
is in fact a bite mark. Well, most quartz bite
mark evidence doesn't hold up anymore because you cannot quantify it.
(12:13):
So when you think about an insized injury, and you
talked about cuts, and we've done an entire episode on
sharp force injuries, When you think about cuts, we've got stabs,
and we've got slices, and we've got punctures. Okay, So
with a bite mark on the shoulder or the inner thigh,
and I've seen here's something interesting. I've seen bite marks
(12:33):
on the inner thighs of legs, and invariably they're always
associated with sexual assault or sexual domination, and it's there
is a paraphilia out there, which is a type of
sexual behavior that involves biting, and it generally it has
(12:54):
to do with literally terrorizing somebody by biting them and
whole holding onto them. Okay, where they're struggling against this. Now,
I don't know if that's the case here, but shoulders
are one thing I would I could envision someone, an assailant,
(13:14):
grabbing someone from behind and biting them on the shoulder
again like a child would, and holding onto them very
very tightly and inflicting incredible and incredible. I mean, how
many of you guys out there are all of our friends.
Did any of you guys go to kindergarten with the
kid there was always the kid that bit other kids
(13:36):
and they never would do anything about it. You know, Yeah,
little Jimmy's a bier. Get little Jimmy out of the class.
He's biting my kid. You know, my child went to
school with a kid that bidding, you know, but there's
always but it's a very infantile thing to do. It's
it's almost very primal, right you think of you know
well who bites well, dogs fight, right, dogs fight, You
(13:58):
know that that resistance are holding on to something. But
at the higher level with humans, there's a strong sexual
connotation with Bidy. One of the most famous biers out there,
Ted Bundy. Bundy, that's what put him in the whoscout,
That's what eventually put him in the chair down in
Florida day.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
I will tell you if you ever really want to
take a look at by mark evidence, look at that,
not just for what happened at Kyle MegaHouse with Ted Bundy,
but lua Bundy did while he was in jail. It's
more what Bundy did to his own teeth while awaiting
trial means more than the fact that they know it
(14:37):
was him the bit into the victims. They didn't need
to prove that part to convict him. I mean, you know,
there was plenty of other evidence.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
But that was part of it. Joe.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
As we moved through this story, a couple other things
that do come up. And by now you understand, guys
that we're now talking about a violent struggle that took
place over a period of time. It wasn't fast, it
wasn't in a hurry. There were other things in the
house that police saw. And again I'm picturing Darren Lee
(15:07):
telling police I think she has narcolepsy bad enough that
she fell in the shower and ended up like this. Meanwhile,
they're looking around this house and they're moving boxes because
they were moving in Joe, so there's already boxes everywhere.
But there was a shattered microwave, oven glass all over
(15:28):
the place. There was a violent struggle that moved from
room to room in that house as Gabriella tried to
save her life, tried to get away from the man
who allegedly killed her. It goes down in one of
those horror stories that we hear. Adding in the bite
Mark Joe, I think that it was part of the
(15:51):
terrorism that went on with her.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I have to agree. And if we are to believe
what we have been told, we're talking about an individual.
And let's just think of it in terms of football.
The sole purpose of a linebacker's existence is to attack
and destroy. How much more so when an eighteenth round
(16:18):
draft pick in an NFL draft attacks a defenseless woman. Allegedly,
there was a book that was written many years ago,
(16:40):
and it's actually involving a case from my old office
down in New Orleans, the Jefferson Pierce Corns Office. Quite
famous case. As a matter of fact, it's famous incense
that Henry Lee got involved in it, and I knew
Henry and he made frequent trips to New Orleans. But
the name of the well, the name of the book
(17:01):
is called Blood Will Tell. And we'll have to do
an episode on this, brother Dave, remind me. But it
centers around two guys that went to work on one
another inside of their own house with aluminum softball bats
and beat each other all day long. In the interim,
the mother of the child in the house died. The
(17:22):
child had brain damage, and the mother, of course, was
the wife of one of the assailants in the house.
They even stopped to eat cereal in the middle of
the day as they were beating each other with bats.
And the thing that I learned from that case in particular,
and this is when I was a very young investigator,
is what does blood deposition tell us about movement in
(17:46):
the dynamics of blood deposition? And it was really it
was really brought brought to bear when doctor Lee talked
about that case extensively, and you could, if you've ever
wanted to try to understand things like cast off and
passive dripping and all these sorts of things. Because you're
(18:06):
talking about bats that are being used, you're not talking
about firearm. And then people that are bleeding and they're
moving around. It's incredibly frenetic. And here in this case, Dave,
according to what we're hearing, is that we have a
subject that the victim is being maybe chased about the
house or drug about the house. Either way, we've got
(18:29):
a lot of movement and sounds like we've got a
lot of bleeding.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Well, and that's the part that I think was not well.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I hope y'all understand when I say something's fascinating or interesting,
it's not too demean what took place in reality, Joe.
As we talk about these it's fascinating how somebody like
Darren Lee, a college educated man, a man who's spent
a few years in the NFL, would still think like
a child that you know.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
That she fell down and got all these injuries.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
When the facts, the evidence sitting in front of you,
it looks like a slaughter has taken place. And I
need somehow to understand what we're gonna learn, Joe, because
as I mentioned, now we've got broken glass in the house.
We've got the shattered microwave oven, which indicates I'm thinking
he picked it up and threw it, allegedly threw it
(19:23):
at her. I'm guessing, you know, because you've in a fight.
You're just doing everything out of just a manic craze.
But hey, let me share something with you before we
go too much further. All right, Darren Lee, just so
you know, he didn't wake up on the wrong side
of the bed allegedly that day, Darren Lee, nine months
before this day, do you know what Gabriella Purpetua did?
(19:45):
Nine months before the day that she was killed? Nine
months before the day, nine months before her death, Gabriella
Purpetua paid Darren Lee's remaining court costs tied to his
Ohio conviction on attempt at assault in a domestic violence
issue that was one that he was.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
On probation for.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
She paid the fine for him still had a case
going on in Florida, which, by the way, Darren Lee
was not allowed to leave the state of Florida. So
by leaving the state of Florida and moving with Gabriella
to Tennessee, he was in violation of his probation, and
his probation would have been revoked and he would have
been put in jail all before she died. So there
(20:29):
are going to be a number of lawsuits that come
out of this, I guarantee you, but actually allegedly. Now,
I guess we have to say that because this has
not been adjudicated at this point, Darren Lee is just
accused of this heinous murder. Gabriella Perpetua is twenty nine
years old and she is dead, but he is.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Only accused of her a murder. He is in jail.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
They prosecution has not decided if it's going to be
a death penalty case, but it is death penalty eligible.
Joe and Darren Lee, ten years after he's draft in
the NFL in the first round, is sitting in a
county jail awaiting his next day in court. There was
blood in every room of this house, Joe. It showed
a struggle that had gone on for a long time.
As the investigator, can you walk into this scene looking
(21:15):
at the injuries of the victim and the evidence that
you see all around and match up the blood, the spatter,
the blood pat the broken glass, the walls, the floor
of the ceiling. Can you match that up to the
injuries on the victim's body.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
You cannot definitively say that the blood that you see
deposited right here actually originated from a specific site. Now
you can hold forth an opinion about it, right, And
that's what experts do. We offer up opinions. It's up
to the jury as to whether or not to accept them.
And you know, you're challenged in court by the defense
(21:56):
or the prosecution, dependent upon who the expert is. However,
there are certain injuries that you can look at and
say there's a higher likelihood, for instance, that the blood
deposition right here that I have. I mean all of
us have probably heard about arterial spray. If you're caught
in an artery arterial If you're caught in an artery,
(22:16):
say with a stab one to the throat, when that
is removed the knife is you have this spurting that's
coming out. So if someone standing adjacent to the wall,
you can see a spurt pattern that comes onto the wall,
and sometimes it has kind of an arcing appearance to it.
The droplets many times might be finer than say, for instance,
(22:37):
if you've got you've got an event that comes off
of a bat striking somebody in the head. Okay, the
the droplets of blood might be larger, And again a
lot of this is dependent upon velocity, and that's how
we classify. We actually classify three main categories of blood
(22:58):
deposition by losty low velocity, medium and high. High almost
exclusively goes to firearms. You know, you've got individuals that
are being struck with a projectile flying through space, many
of them are supersonic rounds. They're striking striking an individual,
and of course you get that kind of fine misting
(23:20):
that comes about as a result of that. Now you
can have that same injury from a gunshot wound and
it's no longer that dynamic first impact. Now you've kind
of got this oozing blood that's coming out or it's
free falling and dripping. You think about, say, for instance,
a medium velocity strike, which is something that you might
you might get with a fist, You can certainly get
(23:42):
it with a baseball bat or a hammer. You know,
you're kind of levering, using a lever to strike this individual,
transferring to a lot of energy onto this but not
as much as you would see with a firearm. And
then you know, you get you get low velocity, which
many times that comes about certain as a punch or
maybe a kick to the face, you're not generating as
(24:03):
much injury, but the deposition of blood is going to
look completely different. Now you can look at the injuries
on the body and you can see points where the
skin has literally been torn, either through a laceration or
through a cut. You know, we talked about in size
to injuries, and you can kind of hypothesize the origins
of this. The other thing is if somebody is popping
(24:26):
the nose or the mouth, think about Nancy Guthrie right
here where we're talking about free falling kind of gravitationally
dependent blood drop that's falling away, say with a bloody
nose or bleeding bleeding lip, that's going to kind of
passively fall and you'll kind of get these perfect They're
not necessarily perfectly circular, but they'll be closer to it
(24:48):
than something that kind of has an elliptical shape to it.
So you interpret this blood around the house. Now, I
think the most telling bit to this is that let's
say someone is attacked. I'll just give you an example
on a second floor of a house. That's where the
attack starts and they have been punched, pummeled, stab kicked.
(25:12):
We're not going to say shot in this case because
there's no indication of fire and play, but all of
those injuries coming to bear. Well, what's really important here
is you can see where the initial point of attack is.
But what let's just say, for instance, what about the
victim trying to escape, right, and they're on the second floor, Well,
(25:33):
just grabbing a handrail, right, she's got blood deposited on
her hand. Well, that contact on that rail is going
to look different than say, if she was struck in
the nose and that blood was kind of cast off
of a fist or off of a hammer or something.
She might lean against the wall. That's a transfer, okay,
where we'll have transfer onto the wall because she's she's
kind of rattled. You can actually see where somebody is
(25:55):
like crawling, I've seen this, and they lean into the wall,
and you might have these very concise areas where just
imagine she's crawling down the stairs and you've got these
little depositions that are coming here, and she's got blood
in her hair. She's leaning. You can actually see the
form of the hair. It looks like a bloody mop
has been drug across the wall or across the floor. Now,
(26:17):
is she doing this under her own power or is
she being actually dragged along the way, you know, with
bloody deposition in into her hair, and then she's deposited
in a specific area where she is left to bleed
out the fact, Dave, I think that's really that's that's
really impactful. Here is something you've said a couple of times.
(26:40):
The police are actually saying, every room, now, how do
you get blood? If you've got two people, how do
you get blood in every room of the house. I
don't I don't understand that unless somebody is making an
effort perhaps to go behind themselves and clean up in
(27:01):
these environments. Maybe they're searching for towels, and they're going
into the bathroom and they're pulling towels off the shelf,
and you've got blood on the wall. Maybe they grabbed
the door knob to the bathroom and made a contact there,
or they're leaning against the wall while they're thinking about
what to do next. They're at the kitchen sink and
they pull open the cabinets and now the contacted the
cabinet doors beneath the sink, or maybe they lean on
(27:24):
the sink and they're thinking about it. Maybe they turned
the knob on the spicket at the sink. Does it
necessarily mean that there was an attack in every single
space in that house. Not necessarily, but you have to
consider every bit of it day.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
And you know, Joe with this particular case where we
have Darren Lee and his girlfriend Gabriella. Obviously to me
and I know that this could be wrong, but based
on what we know, she didn't fall in the shower
as he claimed. But we do have enough evidence now
because you know, when when you go through the legal process,
(28:03):
you know, you go to court and you do have
an opportunity for bail, you know, and if you want bail,
you know you have to present your reasons, you know
why you won't fly.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
But the prosecution also gets to talk.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
To the judge about what they have and whether or not,
you know, you should be allowed out, and of course
you know whether it's going to be bound over for trial.
I mean, these things are preliminary issues. They have to
take place, and it's because of the preliminary things, uh
from binding it over for trial, discovered deciding about what
we let him out and you know, before trough, we
(28:36):
got a lot of information, Joe. And the information that
we got included that before calling the police, Darren Lee
use chat GPT like a defense lawyer, Joe. He got
on the computer and used an AI bot to give
(29:00):
him answers to the problem he was seeing. And can
I share one of these things that he asked for an answer?
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I love to hear that. I can't wait to see
where this goes.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
With that, he asked questions, and in the questions he
gave back, he gave commentary, okay, like what do I
do if? And it's almost like he knows somebody else
is going to see this right. This is what he
wrote among the messages that prosecutors said that Lee sent
(29:31):
to chat GPT. Don't know what to do right now.
Fiance did her crazy thing again and now she's messed up.
I wake up and she has two swollen eyes. I
didn't do anything self inflicted. She stabbed herself, slid her eye.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
I DK. I don't know, but she isn't waking up
or responding.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
What do I do? Early in this you talked about
I spake as a child. Does this sound like an adult,
mature human being? Asking a question, or does it sound
like the most messed up thing you've ever heard in
your life?
Speaker 1 (30:13):
No, I don't think he's spending time in philosophy class
at the Ohio State University trying to understand communications here. No,
I don't he didn't take the logic class that they
offer in the philosophy department. No, it wouldn't seem to
me at least, because this is absolutely absurd, and correct
me if I'm wrong. Dave, is this where the term
stabby comes up?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, here we go search.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Yeah, I was going to walk into that one. A
couple other things that he came up with.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
One of the questions was concerning the physical signs of
injury of slip and fall in the bathroom or shower,
you know, apparently relating to whether injuries could be explained
as accidental, which is exactly what he ended up trying
to do, okay. Prosecutors also alleged that he asked whether
bruising around both eyes and what we're described as quote
(31:06):
two stabby looking wounds could result from a fall. He's saying,
she has two wounds on her body that look like
stab wounds, but they're only stabby looking. Could they have
happened from a fall in the shower. He's asking a
computer an AI bought. Is it possible? Is that legitimately?
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Could? I add?
Speaker 2 (31:31):
If this is what the next generation of people thinks,
Joe for real, if this is the rationale I fear
for tomorrow?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Well, yeah, and I gotta tell you it's certainly going
to give us more breadcrumbs of information, isn't it. We're
going to be able to figure things out a lot
easier because anybody that would go and speak to a
bot to come up with an explanation for these extensive injuries,
(32:04):
the black eyes in particular, Yeah, that could be particularly
self inflicted. I just cannot imagine in what universe an
individual would think that this is wise. I mean, we're
surrounded by this technology all the time. There are so
many stories out there now about how people can be
(32:26):
tracked down by the things that they say. They seek
out those things that are demonstrable in an electronic sense.
I can tell you this, The electronics in this case,
combined with these injuries that she has sustained, are going
to be very, very difficult to simply explain away. A
(32:48):
try totally smugs brother, Dave. I got to tell you
many cases that you and I cover on body backs.
We're having these discussions and we're thinking, you know, she whiz, Yeah,
(33:12):
this is really awful. We've got several injuries, Dave, we
don't have just I think saying several injuries is an understatement.
This is a laundry list of things. And Dave, there
are a number of these injuries right here that in
and of themselves would be fatal. She's got multiple fatal
(33:34):
injuries here, brother, Dave.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I think the part about this that really bothers me,
and I'm hoping that you can shed some light on it, okay,
is that we got twelve different injuries, including the multiple
hematomas and the bone fractures. But we know that her
face took a lot of beating, and we know that
she has a skull fracture. What happens to a when
(34:00):
they've got that going on in their skull, you know,
when they've got all these other injuries too, I mean,
and just like this constant pummeling, I cannot imagine you
know that that a human can put up with a
whole lot. You know, it just seems too severe.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah, it really does. And this is somebody whoever the
assailant is, in this case somebody that is really on
the attack here. You know how we had previously spoken
about the black eyes, and I'm saying that plural when
you're getting into this chat GPT thing and asking questions
and all of this. Most of the time, when we
(34:39):
think about bilateral blackened eyes, some people refer to them
as raccoon eyes. You'll see this as and when people
have had like some kind of rhinoplasty, no surgery, that
sort of thing. Because these bones and face, and we
have to understand the facial bones are part of the skull.
(35:03):
Some people try to disconnect us too, they're not. They're
very intimately connected. These bones are very very thin in here.
So lots of times when you have bilateral black eyes, okay,
you're here, we're thinking of Basler skull fracture and that
means like at the floor of the skull, you'll have
(35:23):
a fracture line that runs through it. Well, what does
that mean, Morgan, Why are you saying that relative to
black eyes, Because that blood actually seeps in to the
suborbital areas right here, and you'll get kind of the
swollen swollen eyes. If you've ever seen many times you'll
see these boxers. You're seeing a boxer that's been just
absolutely just pummel in. Their eyes are swollen out. Well,
(35:44):
you've got fractures the facial bones. You've also got like
nasal fractures where they've been popped in the nose and
these things, and in extreme cases you can actually have
fracturing in the floor of the skull. This takes, Dave,
I cannot express to you how much force this takes.
And most of the time you're not going to achieve
these kind of fractures by single blow, okay, unless you're
(36:06):
like in a car accident. What this tells me is
that there is a high probability that we're talking about
somebody just absolutely pounding on the face over and over.
And it would not be too far of a reach
to say that a foot might be involved, or a
knee to the head, or the facial structures that certainly
(36:29):
happened along the way. And these bones are very very
fragile that are in here. We think that they're very resilient.
I'm sure many of you are friends out there have
had a fractured nose, this lovely thing that I sport.
I've had multiple fractured nose in football and well fight,
so we won't get into that, but I have had
my nose fractured on several occasions and very very painful,
(36:52):
and yes, both times I came away with bilateral broke,
blackened eyes. You get it to that, and then they're
able to at autopsy make this diagnosis of severe brain trauma.
Well what does that look like? Well, brain trauma, this
(37:12):
is kind of what we look for hemorrhage in the brain.
So some of the levels that we're talking about, we
have like epidural. The brain is actually enclosed in a
sack called the dura. If you've ever seen a placenta,
a placenta and a dura sack doesn't look that all
(37:33):
that different. But the brain kind of floats in the
sack and it's a wash with cerebral spinal fluid, all right,
and it acts kind of like a shock absorber. Can
you imagine just having your brain sitting inside of a
skull and it's not cushioned in any way. Well, that
dura sack actually cushions the brain, Okay, And so you
(37:55):
have epidural, which means that there is hemorrhage between the
skull the internal table of skull and the actual dura
which separates the surface of the brain from skull. Then
you can have subdural hematoma, which means it's in between
the dura and the surface of the brain, okay. And
(38:16):
then you can have subarachnoid, which means subracnoid below the
surface of the brain, in dwelling in the brain. So
those are three, and there's multiple other kinds of injuries,
but just and a lot of this arises out of
bloot force trauma. Severity of bloot force trauma, and when
they're talking about brain damage, there are going to be
(38:36):
focal areas, probably massive areas of her brain that have
this indwelling or overlapping hemorrhage in there. You're going to
have destruction and compromise of the brain's ability to function.
And it's a death sentence, Dave, It's an absolute death sentence.
You have a lot of hematomas all over her those
(38:57):
are going to be specific areas where she has been
struck and Dave, I got to tell you, I was
really surprised by this because this is something you don't
normally see in an alleged domestic attack where you've got
a subject that is found and they've got injuries all
over the rest of her body. You see it in
a movie you don't normally see. I seen, doesn't she
(39:19):
have a broken neck?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
That was one of the first things that caught my attention.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Broken neck along with all of the other injuries Joe,
And I'm thinking, could that have happened in the process
of a beating that, you know, because I'm well, it
just doesn't sound right. But you know what I'm after,
Is it possible that that was the neck breaking was incidental,
that it wasn't intentional, that he didn't be the suspect
(39:50):
broken neck during the course of the beating, or did
would it have to be specific?
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Would they have to go after that?
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I think it's an interesting dynamic, and that's one of
the reasons I'm mentioned and kind of these causal causal
factors that are that are factoring in. You know how
I talked about stomping and the knee, right.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
So.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
It does in fact take a lot of force to
stab a neck. Okay, I think you know, people they'll
see movies and whatnot and they'll see somebody walk up
behind somebody and you know, break the neck like that,
and yeah, that's possible. But most of the time when
you have broken necks that comes about as a result
of literally very specific blunt force trauma. You get it
(40:32):
a lot in car accidents, Okay, you can get it
a lot and falls from height. So how do you
replicate that, you know, kind of the energy transfer that
you have with a fall from height or a car
or a motor vehicle accident. Well, I think that it's
possible that you can land a knee on the back
of somebody's neck. Let's say they're laying in a prom position,
(40:54):
face down. They're already you know, kind of in a
greatly diminished state because they've had the hell beat out
of them, They've got stab wounds or cuts. And then
you have somebody that just like they're in a wrestling
rink or something, you know, one of the WWE or something,
and they just kind of launch with a knee into
the back of the neck. With that amount of force
(41:16):
and transferring down that would in fact snap the neck.
You could also probably do it with an elbow. You
could certainly stomp on somebody on the back of their
neck and break the neck. I will be very interested
when we get the autopsy report to try to understand
where any indwelling hemorrhage is because with the broken neck
you're going to have associated the soft tissue around there,
(41:40):
you will actually have a hemorrhage into that with a
broken neck, but also the vessels that run through the spine.
You've got these tiny little what are called framen that
run through all the vertebral bodies. Frame is a fancy
word for a hole. That's where the vessels and if
a neck is broken, you can actually see these kind
of uh hemorrhage points along the way if the vessel's
(42:04):
compromised inside those bony structures in the neck. The level
of violence here, Dave, this is so rage filled when
you think about what this poor lady was subjected to.
Not to mention bites they're saying too, right, we're talking
about the shoulder and the thigh. I'm almost certain that
(42:27):
in a case like this they will have done a
rape kit, and most assaults on women, if I'm the investigator,
I'm going to strongly recommend a rape kit because I
want to know it can give you a lot of
even if they're in an intimate relationship, it can give
you insight into those moments before death if there was
(42:51):
some kind of intimate contact at that moment, tom or
was this act started during the midst of intimate contact,
because you want to try to paint this picture out right,
and if you don't capture it an autopsy, you'll never
get it. So I would imagine they probably did rake
kit on her as well.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Then, all right, Now, the one thing that we let
off with early on, Joe was talking about how there
was blood in every room, including a vehicle that was
registered to both of them. The investigators found cleaning products
in bags in the house, so there was a belief
that there was a pretty significant cleanup effort that was attempted,
(43:32):
but it was just too gone.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
There was too much there to clean up.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
But and again I go back to remember the initial
call to nine one one is my girlfriend. My fiance
is unresponsive. She's laying on the floor, she's unresponsive. And
yet I don't know how long she had been there
when he called Joe, but it was long enough to
get cleaning supplies and to try to clean up the blood,
cleaned it up enough that when they got to the car,
(44:00):
investigators trying to follow the different trails, I guess they
saw a sign of blood, but they didn't immediately see
it with the naked eye. So what do you do
when you think you have something?
Speaker 3 (44:11):
What do you do? Joe?
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Well, you know, most of the time, I think everybody's
default position, and it's the term that we hear the most.
They'll say, did you lumin all the same? Luminol is
the first generation reactant that we have used over the years.
And you know, I remember being back in the day
where you used to have to make it up, literally
make this stuff up.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
You had to make the luminol.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, you had to make like coming.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
A spray can No, really, I assumed it came in
a thing that you went to the swat room and
there it is, get the luminol, let's go.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
And I also, by the way, it wasn't you had.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Something else that you told me. You have to do
it real quick too, Yeah, you do. It doesn't stay.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
It's very very unstable, and that's why many people have
have changed over to blue Star now. And blue Star
works on the same principle it's going to. It's going to.
What happens is is that the blue Star actually interacts
with the iron that's contained within hemoglobin, okay, which is
(45:13):
a component of blood. Remember blood, blood is not a
standalone substance. Okay, so it's it's it's got multiple components
to it. You know, red blood cells, white blood cells,
You've got serum, you know. All.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
Yeah, I swear I should have paid more attention to
biology in high school because I know I've heard all
this before.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
It's just it's a refresher, it's okay. Yeah, but yeah,
So blue Star is actually more stable than luminol. The
cool thing about it, it's actually more sensitive than I luminol. Okay,
So let's just say, if somebody goes through and they
apply cleaning agents to a specific area, luminol might not
(45:56):
get the same it won't have the same levels scitivity
as blue Star will. When you're trying to get the hit. Now,
you still have to apply it and try to visualize
it in a little like conditions. Here's the other thing
that's the upside with blue Star. It's got a longer
lasting glow.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
You know, I remember with luminol you had to really
be careful about your shutter speed because you want it
open and as soon as the lights go off, boom,
you have to capture and snap it out like that
you know, really really quick. If you want to catch
the luminescence. Blue star lasts a bit longer. It's high,
it's it's it has a higher level of sensitivity. It's
(46:34):
certainly safer to use, and it's more stable than luminol too,
so that's the benefit of it. And if you go
through a residence like this, and I don't really know
at this time how many applications they did, I would
imagine that if they found what they thought was blood
and Dave, it can be the tiniest little spec that
(46:56):
they might see on the door jam of not the doorjam,
but the side side of the interior wall of the door.
The handle might be a little bit on the on
the dashboard. That's an indication that maybe they cleaned up.
And what's what's really wild is when you go to
a scene and somebody is actually cleaned up, cleaned up,
(47:18):
and you have these massive kind of swipes and wipes
on the surface where you can tell they've run a
rag over the area and you can't see it with
the NA did I and you apply this luminescence to
it and it's like pop like that, it just like
strikes you. I mean, it's like one of the most
striking things you'll see. You'll see this kind of really
(47:39):
intense glow. It almost looks like like, I don't know,
like a Prussian blue. You know, it's just really striking,
you know, very visible like this, and you see it
all over the place. And when you snap that and
you have that in your images and you can take
that court and you can have somebody that understands technology
(48:00):
can explain to the jury what they're looking at. And
this stuff might be everywhere. Can you imagine how powerful
this is important. I mean, it's one thing to see blood,
but if you can demonstrate the movement of blood as
a result of somebody trying to clean it up and
the deposition of where it was all the more is
so impactful to a jury when they see this, because
not only do you have deposition of blood or evidence
(48:22):
that blood was deposited there, then you go to another
level and you have an expert say, yeah, somebody tried
to clean this up. Well automatically, the jury is kind
of like catching sili over at the defendant sitting at
the table. This is going to be very powerful stuff
in this case.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
State, and that is where we're headed next. It has
not been adjudicated.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
As we mentioned, Darren Lee, former first round draft picked
in twenty sixteen of the New York Jets, a linebacker
out of the Ohio state, is accused. He is in
jail awaiting trial now. He has not been granted bond,
so he will be held until trial. He is on
probation from Florida and Ohio and on previous domestic violence issues.
(49:04):
He is in jail. He's not going to be let out.
And it could be Joe a death penalty case. But
it is going to come down to what police saw
and some of the evidence you've heard about on this show.
I think the chat GPT is what's really going to
get a lot of attention, But the reality is what
will convict him isn't what he asked a computer.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
It's going to be the forensics.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yeah, I think that will be brother. And what's going
to be fascinating for me to watch is the level
of violence in these other cases that he was involved
in in other states. Particularly interesting to me is will
any of that evidence be allowed at his trial? Okay,
because you know, if you let's just say that this
(49:46):
was a world where he had the chance of bailing
out you know, bonding out. Okay, they would look at
his previous history in these circumstances and say that's island history.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Man.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
As a matter of fact, his name is supposed to
be up here, he's supposed to be down in Florida.
You know that was a condition of him being in
the system down there. And oh, by the bye, you've
got this other violent case up in Ohio. Will they
allow any of that stuff to come into court? I
don't know. That's going to be for the lawyers to
(50:21):
figure out and whether or not the judge will allow it.
But I do know this. There are people out there
right now, my friends, that are struggling with domestic violence
all over the country. You don't hear about them. You
really don't, because so many people are terrified. They're terrified
of what their alleged sailant can do to them. I
(50:43):
don't think that this case is a one off. I
think that we've probably got a history of things here,
and just like many people have histories, keep that in mind.
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body by s
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
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