Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I know that we're all reaching a certain age and
that our hearing is going right in the you know garbage.
I am super excited right now to have two guests
on the show. One of them my longtime friend and
has really done so much for Chuck in terms of
battling his tonightis doctor Patty from Colorado. Tonightis in hearing center,
(00:20):
and she has brought in from across the pond, as
they say, or they used to say, doctor Ross O'Neill,
who has invented something that is an actual treatment for
tonight's instead of what's been available at to this point,
which are pretty high speed hearing aids that actually mask
the sound of tonightis. And this is kind of revolutionary,
(00:40):
doctor Patty.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
It is.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
You're right typically, you know, in the last twenty years.
That's when we started our clinic twenty years ago, you know,
really when we started out.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
All we had was maskers.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Eventually, other products have come out over those last twenty
years that you know, have come and gone unfortunately where
we've tried them for maybe six months to a year
and they've gone. But hearing needs really have been the
mainstay of bringing that patient because most of the time
if there's hearing loss, most of the time patients ninety
percent of patients are going to say they have ringing
(01:13):
in their ears. Right, So if we bring that hearing
up and correct for that hearing and give that brain
back what it's deprived, a lot of times patients will say, yeah,
I noticed some improvement.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
And many years ago, doctor Patty explained to me in
a very rudimentary fashion, what tonight's is, and it is
not an actual ringing. It is that parts of your
brain little little you know, feathers or for lack of
a better way to put it, they're damaged, but they're
still sending or the brain is perceiving them as sending
(01:45):
signals that are no longer being accepted. So it's basically
the brain filling the gap of that damaged hearing. I
have explained this to so many people it's not even funny.
So if I'm wrong, you need to correct me now.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
And as that.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
No in your correct is as that brain has a
hearing loss or is auditorily deprived, that that neurosensory what
we call hyperactive, tries to fill it in because it's
not getting the stimulation, kind of like a phantom limb syndrome. Right,
you got the foot off patient still saying hey, my
foot hurts.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
So again it's.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
That hyperactivity in ross can give you the neuroscience behind it,
but but yeah, it's just bringing that stimulation back up
so that brain is not looking for that signal.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So doctor Neil, let me come to you, because this
is how did this become your field of study?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
What led you here?
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Well?
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Originally, I so I'm a PhD biomedical engineer by trades,
of course, and I was I was looking at phantom
limb pain actually originally, and then I started to look
at the kind of wider disorders that are related to
doctor are called illusory perceptual disorders. So tennessis is one.
(02:59):
You know, there's one for every sense. Probably the strangest
one is one for vision. It's called Charles one a syndrome.
It's where you see things, you have non psychotic visual
illusions because so you see things like World War two
soldiers at the bottom of your bed and they're not
really there. So yeah, it's really really strange, and I've
spoken to some people that have it and it's very bizarre.
(03:21):
But there's one for every condition. And I was going
to work in phantom limb. But around about that time,
my eldest daughter had profound hearing loss, so I started
becoming more increasingly interested in hearing health.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
And I just kept stumbling on this this problem.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
It was just seemed like it was just a huge
problem and nobody was really tackling it.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I will tell you because we're about to talk about
brain plasticity, which is a huge thing.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
My daughter's fifteen years old.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
When she was born, she suffered significant brain trauma during
while she was being born. Before Actually we don't know
what happened, but it is what it is. And I
had a fascinating conversation with a pediatric neural pediatric specialist
who said, you know, we know nothing, especially about baby
brain plasticity, and the fifteen years since it's made me
(04:07):
aware of all these things. It feels like the area
of brain plasticity has seen a huge influx of research
and curiosity.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Is that true or am I just paying attention to
it better?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:18):
No, I think you're right.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
I think with the advent of brain imaging technologies and
stuff like that, we've discovered thath We used to believe
that the brain was kind of hardwired at birth, or
soon after, And that's just not true. The brain wires
and re wires constantly over the course of your lifetime.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
I mean when I was a kid, it was like,
don't kill those brain sills because they don't grow back.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
So when you kill them, you're done.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Obviously, I am proving that incorrect every single day. So
what exactly are we talking about when you're looking at
the signals that are being sent.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
In the brain, and how does your linear.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Treatment that you invented, how does that fix that disconnect?
Speaker 5 (04:55):
Yeah, so what essentially what's happening in teresus is thatash
your brain is paying too much attention to this one
tenative sound and that's not a real sound. It's an
illusory sound that's coming arising from hearing losses.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
You guys discussed.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
But essentially what happens is you hear the sound, you
realize it's not a real sound, and you start to
pay more attention to it, and you're kind of frightened
by it. And that combination of attention and fear in
the brain or kind of a lethal combination. Now they're
the reason that we are top of the food chain.
That's what has led to our survival. But Unfortunately, in
the case of tenatus, it works against us. So you
(05:32):
keep paying attention to this sound, you keep being frightened
by it, and the more you do that, the more
likely you are to do it. So that's how it
becomes habituated. So we looked every time I talked to
people who used hearing aids for tenatus, they said, the
hearing aids are great, but when I take them off
at night, my tenative spikes and attack gets sleep. So
(05:53):
we were trying to develop a long lasting hearing aid.
So there's an old approach culpaired associative stimulation, and that
dates right back to Pavlov and these dogs. It's where
you pir pair one stimulation or one stimulus with with
a reinforcing signal.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
And so that's essentially what we did.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
We we paired sound that's not the tenet of sound
with a reinforcing signal on the tongue and we do
that millions and millions of times over a course of treatment,
and it gradually teaches your brain to pay more attention
to those sounds and less attention to the sound.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
So this is not something you wear all the time. Right,
How does this process work?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Yeah, So it's a it's a home use device.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
It's you know, like an iPod, and so it has
bluetooth headphones that you put on, so it plays sounds
through those. And then there's a little kind of lollipop
kind of electrode that goes in your mouth. We call
it a tongue tip, and it has like a you know,
an array of little electrodes, and every time you hear
a tone, the corresponding electrode on the tongue activates, So
(06:55):
you're getting it essentially that tone through two senses. You're
getting it through your ear and through your tongue at
the same time.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
So how does this How is it a distraction for
your brain? I'm a little confused on that part of it.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Yeah, so the brain.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
If you push a signal in on two different senses
at the same time, your brain just naturally attends to it.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
It's a subconscious kind of phenomenon.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
And so we're exploiting that to kind of dilute the
amount of attention because your brain can only give so
much attention to only one percent, so it's giving too
much totenus. So we're over time, we're diluting the attention
it's giving ttenatus, and we're forcing it to pay attention
to these other sounds.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Now, are the other sounds catered to? Whatever your tonightis is?
Because I have developed haven't even talked to doctor Patty
about this.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
This is new, super excited about it.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
A high pitch, just like one of those. So would
you formulate or calculate this to that specific noise or
am I going to get the same treatment that my
husband would get.
Speaker 5 (07:58):
It's it's basically personalized to your hearing, but and not
to your actual tenasis because that can be quite challenging
to kind of, you know, to pitch match people's tents R.
So it's it kind of doesn't matter. You know, if
we if we basically force your brain to pay attention
to the full spectrum of human sounds, then it achieves
the same effect.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
So okay, I have.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Some very detailed questions from from people who have texted
in on the text line. I got this one first
earlier today, so I want to get this in Mandy.
I know there's various forms of tonight is. How common
is it to be related to a spinal nerve issue?
Mostly solved mind says this texture with upper cervical chiropractic care.
It came out of nowhere when I woke up with
(08:41):
a kink in my neck.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So what can kick this in?
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (08:45):
So tenosus is a symptom that can have money causes
that by far the most common cause is either you know,
hearing loss, measurable hearing loss, or an early form of
hearing loss that we call sign uptopathy for hidden hearing.
But there are for a minority of cases. Yeah, it
can be whiplash injuries. It can be TMJ and your jaw.
(09:05):
It can be tental part of what mine came from. Yeah,
so that's you know, kind of a small percentage of
cases generally there that's good news. So you know you
can be you know, it can fix this through I
don't know if a spine doctor or you know, a
dentist or or if there's some patients have have pulsit
(09:27):
so it's in in in sync with your heartbeats.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Oh that sounds awful.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
The last thing I need to do is be reminded
of my own mortality over and over and over again
all day long.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
That would be horrible.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Yeah, but that's the important thing is when you come
in us determining what it is why it is because
some people come in they maybe got tentative staff for COVID.
They again, like Ross said, it may be more vascular,
so we would refer you to a vascular surgeon to
make sure, hey, there's not a corotid blockage or something,
(10:00):
or could be a head injury, or could be high
blood pressure, or it could be a dental issue. So
the importance is not just plopping something on but really
finding out, hey, do we need to refer you to
another medical facility position and rule out what it is.
Once we've ruled out what it is, then we can
move on to treatment.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Okay, somebody said, Mandy Tenetiss not Tonightus. The proper Latin
pronunciation is Tonight's Charles Tarrington Elser, my former speech guru
on this show who has since passed away.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
We clarified this a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
People can say it however they want, I say it
in the proper Latin way.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I'm just saying you can say you want, yes, it
either is correct.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
The proper Latin pronunciation is always the second syllable. Anyway,
Thank you, smarty pants Texter. Somebody asked to your point
about getting tonight us after a COVID Mandy, please ask
your guests why my tonight iss is ten times worse
after the COVID vacs. I don't think anyone knows the
answer to that just yet.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
Well, I get asked that question a lot, and we
actually sponsored some co sponsored some research along with the
British Tennis Association. So in the UK they have this
thing called the Biobank and they can basically research you know,
kind of population level and medical data and they did
not find any correlation with COVID antens or COVID vaccines
(11:25):
and tenesis.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
So I've had I've.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Had tonight before for a brief period of time when
I had a really bad head could or really you know,
sinus issues, but it's always gone away. Now it's just
clinging there.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
How long has that been there? No? Probably three months,
four months.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Two weeks?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Fact, so weird. So what, doctor Patty,
when people.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Come in to see you, what is the process for this?
And somebody already asked, does insurance cover this? Insurance doesn't
cover a lot of hearing stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
It will cover the a lot of times it will
cover for the hearing evaluation, just depending we are a
tenatives specialty clinic. So when you come into our clinic,
you know we're not going to just do a basic
heuring test. We're going to do a full blown medical
diagnostic hearing avoalve.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
It takes a long time. I just want you to
know this. It takes a long time to do this.
A lot of I can hear it, No I can't.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Yes, yeah, So you know, we want to make sure
that we've dotted all of our eyes and make sure
that we know what's going on. So once they've gone
through that full diagnostic evaluation, a real thorough case history,
because that can be everything of how did it start,
why did it start, you know, was it a virus, whatever,
and then really sitting down and talking with the patient.
(12:40):
Are they more bothered by tenatus? Are they more bothered
by hearing laws things like that? Are their balance issues?
All of those things come into play. Most TuS treatments
are not covered by insurance company.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Which is insane because they've obviously never had it.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Making people suffer with this is just awful. Now I
have another question where there's an event tomorrow night.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Is that full? It is full? Okay, it is ful, but.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Sorry, I'm not sorry, you never know, we may have
some cancelations, so I mean they could always call in
and get on our wait list, which I would recommend.
So if you call our office, Rebecca Areana can take
your your information because as you know, you know, whether
different things happen, life happens, So definitely, if you're still
interested in coming, definitely you know, calling to get on
(13:29):
the wait list.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
If you really, if you know you have tonight and
you're interested in learning more, the easiest and fastest way
to just be making an appointment at the clinic right,
just go to help for ringing dot com. Help for
ringing dot com is the website. Go ahead and schedule
a console. First of all, everyone in this office is
so nice. If you're having a really bad day, just
go in the office and everyone is so nice. It
will are that alone will make your day better. I'm
(13:52):
just going to say that. But I'm excited to come
tomorrow night learn more about this. So it's very very interesting.
And you brought one of the little Now did you
feel the zap on your tongue?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I mean you can feel it.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
It feels like carbonated a carbonated train. Yeah, it's just bubbles.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, yeah, and how long do you have to do this?
How long does the treatment last?
Speaker 5 (14:14):
So it's thirty to sixty minutes per day and it's
for like a minimum of twelve weeks, but that's really to.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Be determined by your doctor, and.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Then the effects last beyond that.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Well, what we all we can say is what we've
seen in clinical trials. So in our clinical trials, we've
seen that for the majority of patients the effect can
last up to twelve months.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
So that's great.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Do you have any longer studies than that or are
we still so early in the process that we're waiting
to find out?
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Okay, yeah, yeah, we're quite early. Now.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
We're continuing to gather real world data. So the more
patients we treat, the more data will have and that'll
kind of inform the future development of the technology.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Okay, but I've.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Been doing it for two years and we're still seeing
patients maintain when they finish treatment, so just you know,
real world clinical evidence. When people have come back in
for their follow up.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
They're like, yeah, I'm doing great, so and then if
it does come back, you could just do the whole
thing again, right.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Yeah, Yeah, we see the patients some patients they it
might come back and they top up with another treatment.
Some patients just love the treatment so much to continue
to use it. I've heard one one patient describe it
as is daily gin and tonics.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
That, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Whatever works.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I mean, Patty, how are your patients using it practically?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yeah? Like what are they? How are they doing this?
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Because I got to tell you, I'm thinking, oh god,
thirty minutes, sixty minutes a day, where am.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I going to put this? What are people?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
That's a concern which we really do talk with patients,
you know, is this something that you can put in
your lifestyle? But what I find is after most people
get into it, so it's a treatment, we want you
to do it a half hour in the morning, half
hour in the afternoon, right or evening whatever. You're listening
to a very soothing, calming set of tones, kind of
sounds like some motion in the background. Most patients, one
(16:00):
they get started, it becomes their me time.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Ore.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
They're likeuse, we really want you to sit down, read
a book. You know, we don't want you to play
on your phone. We want you to just do a puzzle,
read a book something. And that's been the hardest thing
of getting people off of it because they're like, wow,
I've kind of enjoyed my me time.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
I think it's a way for people to just stop
take a breath because we live in a very busy world.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
It absolutely does.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
If you want more information about any of this stuff,
doctor Patty is the only authorized provider right in our
area in the front range.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
In the front Range, she's.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
The only authorized provider losing your treatment system. If you
want to try and get on the waiting list for
tomorrow night's event, you can do that too. Help for
ringing dot Com has the phone number. Just give them
a call and they'll give you a call if anybody
cancels tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I did want to mention too, we do have three
veteran VA sites that are fitting, which to me is
kind of after your own heart with yes. So again
I want to tell people, if you know, if it's
maybe not coming to us, get plugged into the vast
because we've got some really good local vas providing that
treatment and we always want to make sure you know
(17:05):
they get in the right place. So just kind of
inform you on that if they're really in the VA system,
check it out.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
Yeah, and it is fully reimbursed, as I understand from
the for the for the VA.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Oh that's great to know, because I got to tell you,
standing around big guns, we'll definitely hurt your hearing. Doctor Patty,
Doctor Ross O'Neil, thank you so much for coming in today.
Appreciate everything I got to tell you. I have been
saying for years. I think with the advent of earbuds
and everybody wearing earphones, the millennials, Oh, it's coming for you.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
It's coming for you.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Okay, So you can make fun of us all sitting
at dinner with our hands up through our ears
Speaker 2 (17:39):
But that's your future.
I know that we're all reaching a certain age and
that our hearing is going right in the you know garbage.
I am super excited right now to have two guests
on the show. One of them my longtime friend and
has really done so much for Chuck in terms of
battling his tonightis doctor Patty from Colorado. Tonightis in hearing center,
(00:20):
and she has brought in from across the pond, as
they say, or they used to say, doctor Ross O'Neill,
who has invented something that is an actual treatment for
tonight's instead of what's been available at to this point,
which are pretty high speed hearing aids that actually mask
the sound of tonightis. And this is kind of revolutionary,
(00:40):
doctor Patty.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
It is.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
You're right typically, you know, in the last twenty years.
That's when we started our clinic twenty years ago, you know,
really when we started out.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
All we had was maskers.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Eventually, other products have come out over those last twenty
years that you know, have come and gone unfortunately where
we've tried them for maybe six months to a year
and they've gone. But hearing needs really have been the
mainstay of bringing that patient because most of the time
if there's hearing loss, most of the time patients ninety
percent of patients are going to say they have ringing
(01:13):
in their ears. Right, So if we bring that hearing
up and correct for that hearing and give that brain
back what it's deprived, a lot of times patients will say, yeah,
I noticed some improvement.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
And many years ago, doctor Patty explained to me in
a very rudimentary fashion, what tonight's is, and it is
not an actual ringing. It is that parts of your
brain little little you know, feathers or for lack of
a better way to put it, they're damaged, but they're
still sending or the brain is perceiving them as sending
(01:45):
signals that are no longer being accepted. So it's basically
the brain filling the gap of that damaged hearing. I
have explained this to so many people it's not even funny.
So if I'm wrong, you need to correct me now.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
And as that.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
No in your correct is as that brain has a
hearing loss or is auditorily deprived, that that neurosensory what
we call hyperactive, tries to fill it in because it's
not getting the stimulation, kind of like a phantom limb syndrome. Right,
you got the foot off patient still saying hey, my
foot hurts.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
So again it's.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
That hyperactivity in ross can give you the neuroscience behind it,
but but yeah, it's just bringing that stimulation back up
so that brain is not looking for that signal.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So doctor Neil, let me come to you, because this
is how did this become your field of study?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
What led you here?
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Well?
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Originally, I so I'm a PhD biomedical engineer by trades,
of course, and I was I was looking at phantom
limb pain actually originally, and then I started to look
at the kind of wider disorders that are related to
doctor are called illusory perceptual disorders. So tennessis is one.
(02:59):
You know, there's one for every sense. Probably the strangest
one is one for vision. It's called Charles one a syndrome.
It's where you see things, you have non psychotic visual
illusions because so you see things like World War two
soldiers at the bottom of your bed and they're not
really there. So yeah, it's really really strange, and I've
spoken to some people that have it and it's very bizarre.
(03:21):
But there's one for every condition. And I was going
to work in phantom limb. But around about that time,
my eldest daughter had profound hearing loss, so I started
becoming more increasingly interested in hearing health.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
And I just kept stumbling on this this problem.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
It was just seemed like it was just a huge
problem and nobody was really tackling it.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I will tell you because we're about to talk about
brain plasticity, which is a huge thing.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
My daughter's fifteen years old.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
When she was born, she suffered significant brain trauma during
while she was being born. Before Actually we don't know
what happened, but it is what it is. And I
had a fascinating conversation with a pediatric neural pediatric specialist
who said, you know, we know nothing, especially about baby
brain plasticity, and the fifteen years since it's made me
(04:07):
aware of all these things. It feels like the area
of brain plasticity has seen a huge influx of research
and curiosity.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Is that true or am I just paying attention to
it better?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:18):
No, I think you're right.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
I think with the advent of brain imaging technologies and
stuff like that, we've discovered thath We used to believe
that the brain was kind of hardwired at birth, or
soon after, And that's just not true. The brain wires
and re wires constantly over the course of your lifetime.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
I mean when I was a kid, it was like,
don't kill those brain sills because they don't grow back.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
So when you kill them, you're done.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Obviously, I am proving that incorrect every single day. So
what exactly are we talking about when you're looking at
the signals that are being sent.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
In the brain, and how does your linear.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Treatment that you invented, how does that fix that disconnect?
Speaker 5 (04:55):
Yeah, so what essentially what's happening in teresus is thatash
your brain is paying too much attention to this one
tenative sound and that's not a real sound. It's an
illusory sound that's coming arising from hearing losses.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
You guys discussed.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
But essentially what happens is you hear the sound, you
realize it's not a real sound, and you start to
pay more attention to it, and you're kind of frightened
by it. And that combination of attention and fear in
the brain or kind of a lethal combination. Now they're
the reason that we are top of the food chain.
That's what has led to our survival. But Unfortunately, in
the case of tenatus, it works against us. So you
(05:32):
keep paying attention to this sound, you keep being frightened
by it, and the more you do that, the more
likely you are to do it. So that's how it
becomes habituated. So we looked every time I talked to
people who used hearing aids for tenatus, they said, the
hearing aids are great, but when I take them off
at night, my tenative spikes and attack gets sleep. So
(05:53):
we were trying to develop a long lasting hearing aid.
So there's an old approach culpaired associative stimulation, and that
dates right back to Pavlov and these dogs. It's where
you pir pair one stimulation or one stimulus with with
a reinforcing signal.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
And so that's essentially what we did.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
We we paired sound that's not the tenet of sound
with a reinforcing signal on the tongue and we do
that millions and millions of times over a course of treatment,
and it gradually teaches your brain to pay more attention
to those sounds and less attention to the sound.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
So this is not something you wear all the time. Right,
How does this process work?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Yeah, So it's a it's a home use device.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
It's you know, like an iPod, and so it has
bluetooth headphones that you put on, so it plays sounds
through those. And then there's a little kind of lollipop
kind of electrode that goes in your mouth. We call
it a tongue tip, and it has like a you know,
an array of little electrodes, and every time you hear
a tone, the corresponding electrode on the tongue activates, So
(06:55):
you're getting it essentially that tone through two senses. You're
getting it through your ear and through your tongue at
the same time.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
So how does this How is it a distraction for
your brain? I'm a little confused on that part of it.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Yeah, so the brain.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
If you push a signal in on two different senses
at the same time, your brain just naturally attends to it.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
It's a subconscious kind of phenomenon.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
And so we're exploiting that to kind of dilute the
amount of attention because your brain can only give so
much attention to only one percent, so it's giving too
much totenus. So we're over time, we're diluting the attention
it's giving ttenatus, and we're forcing it to pay attention
to these other sounds.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Now, are the other sounds catered to? Whatever your tonightis is?
Because I have developed haven't even talked to doctor Patty
about this.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
This is new, super excited about it.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
A high pitch, just like one of those. So would
you formulate or calculate this to that specific noise or
am I going to get the same treatment that my
husband would get.
Speaker 5 (07:58):
It's it's basically personalized to your hearing, but and not
to your actual tenasis because that can be quite challenging
to kind of, you know, to pitch match people's tents R.
So it's it kind of doesn't matter. You know, if
we if we basically force your brain to pay attention
to the full spectrum of human sounds, then it achieves
the same effect.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
So okay, I have.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Some very detailed questions from from people who have texted
in on the text line. I got this one first
earlier today, so I want to get this in Mandy.
I know there's various forms of tonight is. How common
is it to be related to a spinal nerve issue?
Mostly solved mind says this texture with upper cervical chiropractic care.
It came out of nowhere when I woke up with
(08:41):
a kink in my neck.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So what can kick this in?
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (08:45):
So tenosus is a symptom that can have money causes
that by far the most common cause is either you know,
hearing loss, measurable hearing loss, or an early form of
hearing loss that we call sign uptopathy for hidden hearing.
But there are for a minority of cases. Yeah, it
can be whiplash injuries. It can be TMJ and your jaw.
(09:05):
It can be tental part of what mine came from. Yeah,
so that's you know, kind of a small percentage of
cases generally there that's good news. So you know you
can be you know, it can fix this through I
don't know if a spine doctor or you know, a
dentist or or if there's some patients have have pulsit
(09:27):
so it's in in in sync with your heartbeats.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Oh that sounds awful.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
The last thing I need to do is be reminded
of my own mortality over and over and over again
all day long.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
That would be horrible.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Yeah, but that's the important thing is when you come
in us determining what it is why it is because
some people come in they maybe got tentative staff for COVID.
They again, like Ross said, it may be more vascular,
so we would refer you to a vascular surgeon to
make sure, hey, there's not a corotid blockage or something,
(10:00):
or could be a head injury, or could be high
blood pressure, or it could be a dental issue. So
the importance is not just plopping something on but really
finding out, hey, do we need to refer you to
another medical facility position and rule out what it is.
Once we've ruled out what it is, then we can
move on to treatment.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Okay, somebody said, Mandy Tenetiss not Tonightus. The proper Latin
pronunciation is Tonight's Charles Tarrington Elser, my former speech guru
on this show who has since passed away.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
We clarified this a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
People can say it however they want, I say it
in the proper Latin way.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I'm just saying you can say you want, yes, it
either is correct.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
The proper Latin pronunciation is always the second syllable. Anyway,
Thank you, smarty pants Texter. Somebody asked to your point
about getting tonight us after a COVID Mandy, please ask
your guests why my tonight iss is ten times worse
after the COVID vacs. I don't think anyone knows the
answer to that just yet.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
Well, I get asked that question a lot, and we
actually sponsored some co sponsored some research along with the
British Tennis Association. So in the UK they have this
thing called the Biobank and they can basically research you know,
kind of population level and medical data and they did
not find any correlation with COVID antens or COVID vaccines
(11:25):
and tenesis.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
So I've had I've.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Had tonight before for a brief period of time when
I had a really bad head could or really you know,
sinus issues, but it's always gone away. Now it's just
clinging there.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
How long has that been there? No? Probably three months,
four months.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Two weeks?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Fact, so weird. So what, doctor Patty,
when people.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Come in to see you, what is the process for this?
And somebody already asked, does insurance cover this? Insurance doesn't
cover a lot of hearing stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
It will cover the a lot of times it will
cover for the hearing evaluation, just depending we are a
tenatives specialty clinic. So when you come into our clinic,
you know we're not going to just do a basic
heuring test. We're going to do a full blown medical
diagnostic hearing avoalve.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
It takes a long time. I just want you to
know this. It takes a long time to do this.
A lot of I can hear it, No I can't.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Yes, yeah, So you know, we want to make sure
that we've dotted all of our eyes and make sure
that we know what's going on. So once they've gone
through that full diagnostic evaluation, a real thorough case history,
because that can be everything of how did it start,
why did it start, you know, was it a virus, whatever,
and then really sitting down and talking with the patient.
(12:40):
Are they more bothered by tenatus? Are they more bothered
by hearing laws things like that? Are their balance issues?
All of those things come into play. Most TuS treatments
are not covered by insurance company.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Which is insane because they've obviously never had it.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Making people suffer with this is just awful. Now I
have another question where there's an event tomorrow night.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Is that full? It is full? Okay, it is ful, but.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Sorry, I'm not sorry, you never know, we may have
some cancelations, so I mean they could always call in
and get on our wait list, which I would recommend.
So if you call our office, Rebecca Areana can take
your your information because as you know, you know, whether
different things happen, life happens, So definitely, if you're still
interested in coming, definitely you know, calling to get on
(13:29):
the wait list.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
If you really, if you know you have tonight and
you're interested in learning more, the easiest and fastest way
to just be making an appointment at the clinic right,
just go to help for ringing dot com. Help for
ringing dot com is the website. Go ahead and schedule
a console. First of all, everyone in this office is
so nice. If you're having a really bad day, just
go in the office and everyone is so nice. It
will are that alone will make your day better. I'm
(13:52):
just going to say that. But I'm excited to come
tomorrow night learn more about this. So it's very very interesting.
And you brought one of the little Now did you
feel the zap on your tongue?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I mean you can feel it.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
It feels like carbonated a carbonated train. Yeah, it's just bubbles.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, yeah, and how long do you have to do this?
How long does the treatment last?
Speaker 5 (14:14):
So it's thirty to sixty minutes per day and it's
for like a minimum of twelve weeks, but that's really to.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Be determined by your doctor, and.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Then the effects last beyond that.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Well, what we all we can say is what we've
seen in clinical trials. So in our clinical trials, we've
seen that for the majority of patients the effect can
last up to twelve months.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
So that's great.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Do you have any longer studies than that or are
we still so early in the process that we're waiting
to find out?
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Okay, yeah, yeah, we're quite early. Now.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
We're continuing to gather real world data. So the more
patients we treat, the more data will have and that'll
kind of inform the future development of the technology.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Okay, but I've.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Been doing it for two years and we're still seeing
patients maintain when they finish treatment, so just you know,
real world clinical evidence. When people have come back in
for their follow up.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
They're like, yeah, I'm doing great, so and then if
it does come back, you could just do the whole
thing again, right.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Yeah, Yeah, we see the patients some patients they it
might come back and they top up with another treatment.
Some patients just love the treatment so much to continue
to use it. I've heard one one patient describe it
as is daily gin and tonics.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
That, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Whatever works.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I mean, Patty, how are your patients using it practically?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yeah? Like what are they? How are they doing this?
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Because I got to tell you, I'm thinking, oh god,
thirty minutes, sixty minutes a day, where am.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I going to put this? What are people?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
That's a concern which we really do talk with patients,
you know, is this something that you can put in
your lifestyle? But what I find is after most people
get into it, so it's a treatment, we want you
to do it a half hour in the morning, half
hour in the afternoon, right or evening whatever. You're listening
to a very soothing, calming set of tones, kind of
sounds like some motion in the background. Most patients, one
(16:00):
they get started, it becomes their me time.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Ore.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
They're likeuse, we really want you to sit down, read
a book. You know, we don't want you to play
on your phone. We want you to just do a puzzle,
read a book something. And that's been the hardest thing
of getting people off of it because they're like, wow,
I've kind of enjoyed my me time.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
I think it's a way for people to just stop
take a breath because we live in a very busy world.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
It absolutely does.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
If you want more information about any of this stuff,
doctor Patty is the only authorized provider right in our
area in the front range.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
In the front Range, she's.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
The only authorized provider losing your treatment system. If you
want to try and get on the waiting list for
tomorrow night's event, you can do that too. Help for
ringing dot Com has the phone number. Just give them
a call and they'll give you a call if anybody
cancels tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I did want to mention too, we do have three
veteran VA sites that are fitting, which to me is
kind of after your own heart with yes. So again
I want to tell people, if you know, if it's
maybe not coming to us, get plugged into the vast
because we've got some really good local vas providing that
treatment and we always want to make sure you know
(17:05):
they get in the right place. So just kind of
inform you on that if they're really in the VA system,
check it out.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
Yeah, and it is fully reimbursed, as I understand from
the for the for the VA.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Oh that's great to know, because I got to tell you,
standing around big guns, we'll definitely hurt your hearing. Doctor Patty,
Doctor Ross O'Neil, thank you so much for coming in today.
Appreciate everything I got to tell you. I have been
saying for years. I think with the advent of earbuds
and everybody wearing earphones, the millennials, Oh, it's coming for you.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
It's coming for you.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Okay, So you can make fun of us all sitting
at dinner with our hands up through our ears
Speaker 2 (17:39):
But that's your future.
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