05-02-25 FULL SHOW - Deborah Flora Fills in for Mandy

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Mandy Connall Show is sponsored by Bill and Pollock
Accident and Injury Lawyers.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
No, it's Mandy Connell and.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Ka nine.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Got the nicety.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Prey Bendy, Donald Keithing sad Babe.

Speaker 4 (00:28):
Welcome to the Mandy Connell Show. You have probably figured
out now in a couple of seconds.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
I am not Mandy Connell, but.

Speaker 4 (00:34):
I am Deborah Flora, sitting in for my friend Mandy.
Mandy and I often joke about the fact that we
think we are sisters from another mister. So many similarities. No,
it's not just the tortoiseshell glasses.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
It is the fact that.

Speaker 4 (00:47):
Our husbands are both bobcasts from Ohio University, many many
other things, but most of all, we love talking to
you all, and thank you so much for everyone tuning in.
Great to be here sitting in this good to be working.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
With a rod again. And Jill there we go. Wow,
that was something. If anyone's falling asleep, it is Friday.
That woke me up. Go oh, wake God, thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:14):
You may have to do that later because it has
been a busy, busy, busy week. What a great week
to sit in for Mandy. So much going on. The good,
the bad, the ugly, the hopeful, the good news.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
We've got all of that today.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
Also want to let you know stay tuned for all
three hours. I'm excited about two very special guests I
have joining us today at one thirty pm about one
twenty five. You will not want to miss. My good
friend Gary Sonise is going to be joining me. You
may know him as Lieutenant Dan. You may know him
from all the CSI series. You may know him also

(01:47):
as someone who is a tireless patriot standing up for
our military to the Gary Sinise Foundation. My husband and
I've had an opportunity to be good friends with him
for quite a long time. We did a documentary called
Lieutenant Dan Band for the Common Good, and.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
My husband is the director.

Speaker 4 (02:04):
Even went to Iran during the war there excuse.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Me, Iraq?

Speaker 4 (02:08):
Let's clarify that, shall we during the Iraq War?

Speaker 2 (02:11):
And we've got to know.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
His unwavering commitment to those who serve our nation and
as well as our first responders who serve here. But
he's got some very heartfelt things to share with us,
including a tribute to his son, Mac who died tragically
of a very rare form of cancer. But it's an
inspiring story of max legacy and music.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
So join us. Stay here.

Speaker 4 (02:35):
One thirty Garrisons will be joining me, and then at
the two o'clock hour, I'm going to have Dan Snowberger
on the show. He is the Elizabeth School District superintendent.
He and that school board have been standing strong, going
through a due process removing some books from the library.
And let's clarify, this is not book banning. This is
inappropriate materials that are considered to be pornographic and age inappropriate,

(03:00):
and they're being sued.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
By the ACLU.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
So we're going to talk about that and how you
can support their stand and the due process they went
through for that.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
But let's talk about this week.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
Goodness gracious, we are down to the last handful of
days and the Denver legislature and I got to tell you.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
The end cannot come soon enough.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
We've heard from some of the folks there that they
are saving the worst bills for the last so we're
going to be keep an eye on that support those.
By the way, just quick public service announcement if you
have not thanked one of your legislators today, that is
standing up for limited government, greater freedom, constitutional principles. Thank

(03:43):
them reached out to them because it is a tireless job.
I was only there one night this week until almost
eleven o'clock, and they're doing it almost every single day.
So let's talk about what's been going on. The big
national attention has been put on HB twenty five, thirteen twelve,

(04:04):
and if you're not familiar with that bill, that is
a bill that would literally change the Colorado Anti Discrimination
Act and it would add in misgendering or dead naming
as discrimination. Now, nearly seven hundred people signed up to
testify against this bill. I don't know how many, you know,

(04:27):
testified for it. I think they're about six hundred that
were heard that night. My husband and I testified, you know,
didn't get out of there till almost ten thirty that night.
This is one of the most egregious parts. Now it
has been removed, but we have to remain vigilant because
they may be adding it back in.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
You don't know. It's still got to go back to
the House.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
But in the original draft of the bill, there was
language that would actually term misgendering as coercive control or
child abuse that would lead to the ability of the
state to remove a child from their parents' care if
they do not transition them that is socially or otherwise. Now,

(05:09):
I think most of us understand that removing a child
for that reason is.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
An incredible overreach of government control.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
You know, it doesn't matter actually which side of this
issue you are on. Children flourish best and the loving
care of their parents. And the minute that the government
gets to decide what it thinks is child abuse beyond
real child abuse, there is no turning back. It could
become anything after that point in time. Now, we did

(05:41):
wait to testify, so many others did it, and I
also want to frame this conversation in this way. There
were many hardrending stories there from people who are for
the bill. I want to say, this is not about
not supporting those who are dealing with gender dysphoria. This
is about an overreach of government and a classification of

(06:02):
certain speech elements as discrimination. Now, let's unpack this for
a little bit more So, one of the things that
I testified about is that there is an alarming trend
when it comes to children.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
And finally we're able to have this conversation.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
I don't know about you, but I'm tired of us
feeling like we can't even talk about subjects in a
calm way. So this is what we're going to do.
We're talking about children specifically right now. I am, by definition,
I am by definition a smaller government, you know, local

(06:38):
control sort of person. I believe that when you're an
adult in our free society, you're allowed to take whichever
path you want without harming other people.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
That's basic.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
And by harm I mean real harm. I don't mean
hurting people's feelings. Right, But we're talking about children right now. Well,
one of the testimonies that I shared on this bill
is that we have a daughter who's autistic. And there's
some alarming statistics for us to realize because right now
Colorado has been considering something that is far more extreme
than what is going on even in some European countries.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
So autism, what's the connection.

Speaker 4 (07:11):
There's multiple studies that have shown that children on this
spectrum are exponentially more likely to be referred for transitioning
than any other children. Here's some statistics from Great Britain,
from the UK where they have years more background on this.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
They have a socialized.

Speaker 4 (07:30):
Medical, nationalized medical system, so they keep copious, copious notes
and what they have found is that where autistic children
are only two percent of the population, they were thirty
five percent.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Of those transitioned.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
You can be for transitioning, you can whichever way, but
this is something we have to look at. You know,
I just had a caller ask am my parent yes,
to reiterate our daughter is autistic.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
We have a son.

Speaker 4 (07:57):
So my activism this area has come out purely as
a mom. The Tavistock Clinic, by the way, once the
leading gender facility in the world, closed in twenty twenty
three after it was determined And here this statistics are
hard to wrap our brains around, but just hear the statistic.
They ignored the fact that ninety seven point five percent

(08:21):
of the children we're talking children here that they transitioned
actually had autism, ADHD and other underlying issues that were the.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Cause of their distress.

Speaker 4 (08:34):
And that's actually why the National Institute of Health has
stopped prescribing puberty blockers for children. It's time for us
just to slow this mad rush down. You know, we
had a town hall last night and we've had over
thirty thousand people watch the streaming so far has some
great people there. Someone from Alliance Defending Freedom and others.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
And one of.

Speaker 4 (08:58):
The things that was discussed by a parent that shared
very brave dad who actually was married to a woman
who was bisexual.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
He stayed with her.

Speaker 4 (09:11):
Is not against transgenderism, but his two children who he
no longer has any custody over because of the way
our laws currently work, and because he just wanted to
slow down the mad rush towards permanent change for his
five and seven year old children. He just said, can't
we just take a pause and let the science catch up.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
So that's one aspect of this.

Speaker 4 (09:37):
And so, by the way, if you're just tuning in,
Deborah Flora here sitting in for Mandy Connell talking about
a big week under the Dome in Denver, thirteen twelve
is the bill that.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
I'm talking about right now.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
So after, you know, hundreds of people testified from both sides,
and I have to say there was some respectful conversation
in the hallways, which I greatly appreciate. There was some
not so respectful conversation, but always hoping that whether or
not we disagree, we can get back.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
To that point.

Speaker 4 (10:07):
But after that, a little after midnight, the bill was
passed on party lines, and they did remove some of
the most egregious elements, the part about taking away custody
from a child of a child from their parents if
they do not agree to transition them.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
However, we just got to be clear and be very vigilant.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
It is still happening in Colorado that custody battles. Usually
the parent that does not want to transition lose this
custody their many parents as the case, it's already happening
in effect in many areas. In addition, there are opportunities
for this to get put back in. And here's the
final thing. Last night we heard from an attorney from

(10:46):
Alliance Defending Freedom and you can see this town hall
by the way, go to my Twitter page at Deborah
Flora one at Deborah Flora the number one. And this
Alliance Defending Freedom attorney stated that even with the bill
as it is, here's one of the things, and I
want to ask you this question as we're going to
be having this great conversation with one another. In the constitution,

(11:10):
discrimination has always historically been based on behavior or acts,
something you physically or actively do to another person, firing them,
attacking them, you know, doing something like that. It has
not been for speech and In fact, if this passes,
the element that's still in there that makes it a

(11:32):
discriminatory act to misgender or dead. Name someone that is
more radical than California right now. You know I'm wearing
I'm wearing what Jennifer says hats because she was there
at the event last night. And let's just kind of
put a finer point on this. Let's say you're a
business owner like she is, her company's xx xy because
she stands up for protecting girls' sports and.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
Safe spaces, she said.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
If this bill passes, here's how the conversation about for
detecting girls' sports would have to go in Colorado unless
you want to be sued for discrimination.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Instead of even having a.

Speaker 4 (12:05):
Conversation about whether or not it's okay for transgender students
biological males to run in races or be in sports
activities against girls, you'd have to say, is it okay
for a girl to compete in a girls' sports because
if you say it any other way, it's considered discrimination.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
That's just crazy.

Speaker 4 (12:29):
Our freedom is based on the ability to speak, to
talk with one another, to sort out ideas, to disagree.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
With one another.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
In fact, it is in our constitution that even if
you think someone else's speech is abhorrent, they have a
right to say it, and then you have a right
to point out how abhorrent it is. That's how it works.
So there's a lot of disturbing things about this bill. Now.
The good news, as I said, they've removed some of
the worst parts. The bad news is if they do

(12:59):
put this into the law, it will change our anti
discrimination categories in Colorado. That is a huge move that's
being pushed through at a very very fast pace. So
that's the heavy topic that we're kicking this off with.
But it has been quite a week, to say the least.

(13:19):
We're going to be heading to a break here in
just a moment, but before we do, I want to
talk about a couple of other things that have been
going on this week. I was on the show with
Mandy last Friday, sitting right here if you're tuning in,
Deborah Flora sitting in for Mandy Connell. If my voice
sounds a little horse, It's been a very busy week.
But Mandy and I also co moderated a panel on

(13:40):
Tuesday night about home rule, and it was a very
interesting conversation. If you aren't aware of what's going on
in Douglas County.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
They're considering home rule. What does that mean.

Speaker 4 (13:51):
There's a code in the Colorida Constitution that allows, as
of I think it was in nineteen seventy nineteen seventy five,
allows counties to home rule status. There's only two in
Colorado that had done that so far. That is Pitkin
County in Well County. There's two other counties who are
both municipal and county home rule. And this is a dense, thick,

(14:13):
heavy topic, so I'm not going to get into it
too heavily, but if you want to find out more,
you can, once again go to my Twitter feed at
debba Flora one. We recorded that and we're going to
be posting that shortly. But it was a very interesting conversation.
But here's the thing I want to share about it,
and about.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
The town hall last night.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
We a town hall last night about thirteen twelve, and
about half the crowd came was four thirteen twelve. Half
the crowd that came was against thirteen twelve. But what
was a really positive aspect of it. People were extremely
respectful for it to each other.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
You know, some of the questions got.

Speaker 4 (14:50):
A little heated, particularly for those who came who are
against you know, we're four thirteen twelve against what we
were saying about it. But one woman came up to
me afterwards a T shirt boldly proclaiming why she was
for thirteen twelve, And she said afterwards, she said, you know,
I was really afraid to come, but I'm so grateful

(15:11):
that we were able to talk and disagree. I got
to say, I think that was the biggest win of
the evening. Same thing happened for the town hall on
Tuesday night on Douglas County that we for the home
role that we moderated. We had many people there from
the left side of the aisle, many people there from
the right side of the aisle, and by the end, interestingly,

(15:31):
in a so divided period in our history, people from
both sides said this was a good town hall. Why
because we actually just presented the facts. We allowed people
to ask questions. And one of the things we had
to communicate to people, you know, on both sides of
this issue who are participating in the panel, is look,
questions are not attacks. Questions are not hate speech. In fact,

(15:55):
it is the key to a free society to be
able to ask questions. You can do that without being demeaning.
So anyway, that's one of the things I thought was very,
very encouraging. And if you were listening last Friday, Mandy
and I talked about that.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
It's a very successful town hall Tuesday night.

Speaker 4 (16:11):
We had over I think nearly two hundred people that
were there from different political persuasions, and I think we've
got to get back to that.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
That's my hope, that's my goal.

Speaker 4 (16:22):
And by the way, if you want to see that
town hall, if you're wondering about this confusing thing of
home rule, you can go on Facebook also to Douglas
County's citizenry. That's where it's posted. That's a group that
several of us found it, and why do we found it?
For this very reason. I got to say, I am conservative.
I'm a constitutional conservative, but my experience is both running

(16:46):
for office and being on the front lines of some
of these grassroots things.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
I got to be really honest.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
There is vitriol on both sides of the spectrum. There
are people on both sides of the spectrum wanting to
shout down others from free inquiry, wanting to say that
ideological conformity is mandated. I got to tell you that
is not how we exist or how we continue as

(17:13):
a free society.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
That is the key to this.

Speaker 4 (17:16):
So, you know, here's my question for you as we
head into this.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Very first break. I want to ask you.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
This, when's the last time you spoke to someone who
you knew, you knew ahead of time, disagreed with you
on a political or social issue.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
I just just want to pause here for a moment.

Speaker 4 (17:36):
Last night, after we had this town hall, and you
know the side that was for thirteen twelve, the bill
that will codify misgendering or dead naming as anti discrimination.
It's actually gonna for the first time really criminalize speech
speech in and of itself.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
But afterwards, those who showed up, who were.

Speaker 4 (17:59):
For this new this new law, I understand a lot
of them felt great hurt, great pain, have felt like
they were mistreated.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
But I went up and I spoke to several.

Speaker 4 (18:09):
Of them afterwards, thanked them for coming, ask them if
they learned anything, and we had a great conversation. I
just encourage everyone maybe think of that one person you
know disagrees with you, and try saying, hey, you know,
we've never talked.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
About this before. But I want to ask you this
as we go into.

Speaker 4 (18:29):
The break, have you recently and I'm going to be
reading the text here, so do text in to the
Common Spirit Health text line five six six nine zero.
That's five six six nine zero. What is the last
time you activated a conversation with someone you knew you
disagreed with?

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Okay, that's the question.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
When we come back, we're and continue with a lot
of these other topics.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Don't go anywhere.

Speaker 4 (18:53):
I'm Deborah Flora sitting in for Mandy Connell. Hi, this
is Deborah Flora sitting in for Mandy Connell today.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
So happy to be with you all.

Speaker 4 (19:01):
There's just so much to talk about, and I appreciate
the texts that are already coming in.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
As we start a civil.

Speaker 4 (19:08):
Dialogue here and talk about having a civil dialogue, feel
free to text in at the Common Spirit Health text
line five six six nine zero. We started off the
show talking about what's going on in these final days
in the Colorado Legislature under the Dome in Denver. One
of the nearly six hundred people I think that finally

(19:29):
was able to testify on Wednesday evening against thirteen twelve.
Many were not able to testify, and I just want
to share. I want to share some encouraging information about
how people had been activated gaze against Groomers talked about
how Rich Guggenheim the activation. There were I think hundreds

(19:51):
of tens of thousands of emails that were sent to legislators.
Nearly seven hundred people signed up to testify against thirteen twelve.
I don't know how many on the other side, but
that's some serious civic.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Engagement and that is a good thing.

Speaker 4 (20:08):
But I posed this question because I talked about how
two town halls that I helped moderate and organize this week.
One was with Mandy We co moderated a panel a
town hall Tuesday evening about home rule.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
That was not a debate or a forum.

Speaker 4 (20:24):
It was just simply informational, but people from both sides
of the aisle came and asked good questions and it
was very positive for the most part. I mean, I
don't know how often those people are actually in the
same room talking to one another anymore in our landscape
of silos that we've created here. And then same thing
last night, we had a forum town hall against thirteen twelve,

(20:48):
but many people came from the LGBTQIA community who were
four thirteen twelve, and afterwards many.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Of them said, you know, thank you.

Speaker 4 (20:58):
I was afraid to come here, but this was so respectful.
And I do believe, I really do believe there are
those vested on either side of the political spectrum that
want to keep us from talking to one another. They
want to keep us from actually asking questions. They want
to keep us from having a conversation about those things
that we agree upon. And one of those, by the way,
is it's entirely different thing if you're an adult and

(21:20):
you're looking at transgendering transitioning than a child. I just
want to share one interesting thing that was shared last
night by someone from the Heritage Foundation at our town hall,
and if you missed it, go to my Twitter feed
at Deborah Flora one at Deborah Flora the number one
where you can where you can see that, you can

(21:41):
see the link to it. But there was someone that
talked about and we're about children here, you know.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
I talked about how.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
Ninety seven point five of the children that were transitioned
at the Tavistot Clinic, the leading original clinic in UK,
that ninety seven point five were mis diagnosed and had
autism at ADHD or other underlying issues that were the
real cause of their distress. Here's another statistic. We are
just beginning to see enough information.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
And there's one.

Speaker 4 (22:09):
Study that shows that was shared last night that when
you socially transition a child, nine out of ten of
them will continue in transgenderism. When you don't socially transition
a child, nine out of ten of them don't continue.
So can we just have a conversation we can all

(22:29):
agree on. Just let children be children, don't force them
into anything, give them time to find out under the
care of those who love and know them best, their
parents ninety nine percent of the time to.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Figure that out. But the question I posed when.

Speaker 4 (22:45):
We went to the break was when is the last
time you spoke to someone that.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
You knew disagreed with you on a political, social.

Speaker 4 (22:54):
Or ideological issue. When's the last time you did that?
And got some really interesting response. One person said, thank
you for being an example of discussion.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
We needed at the schools.

Speaker 4 (23:06):
Absolutely, it's time that we begin to understand that asking
questions is not an attack. Asking questions is asking questions.
I mean, I was one of those moms that stood
up at our school boards and asked questions, and you know,
found out later that I was probably on some kind
of security watch list as a domestic terrorist, just for

(23:28):
asking questions about the children the schools that our children
were going to. So yes, we need to be able
to do that everywhere. Here's another another listener texted, and
you can text by the way, also at five six
six nine zero. Of course, we need to be able
to have civil conversations and discussions in most cases. However,
we fought fascism and Nazism in World War two and

(23:50):
we won, so no nobody needs to be respectful or
civil or listened to neo Nazis or white supremacists nationalists.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
That's what we fought a war for.

Speaker 4 (23:59):
Okay, let's let's unpack this because another person mentioned the
Nazi situation. Let's be really clear about what happened there,
because there's a lot of misrepresentation that period in time.
There was a period when many people could have spoken
out against the horrific anti Semitic language of the Nazi Party.

(24:20):
But what did they do the moment they got a
little bit of power. The Nazi Party themselves were the
ones who suppressed speech. The reason why is because good,
decent people were ready to speak out against this extremist
and horrific language, but they were silenced. So the problem
wasn't free speech. The problem was the suppressing of free speech.

(24:43):
So free speech, let's put it this way. Speech is
only free if all speech is free. And then yes,
as a society, as an individual, we can say I'm
not going to listen to that.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
I'm going to call that out for what it is.

Speaker 4 (24:55):
But that's how we actually expose things that are so extreme.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Another person said, every.

Speaker 4 (25:02):
Day I engage in conversation with people who disagree with me,
especially Ross. Had to give that shout out to Ross,
who was just sitting in this chair earlier. But let
me talk about a new place where we can speak
out against some of what is out there.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
There's a whole new thing problem. Many of you've heard.

Speaker 4 (25:20):
This is Deborah Flora, by the way, sitting in for
Mandy Connell. There's something that began to be a phenomenon
on the Internet lots of different social media sites in
January called dark woke, and what we're seeing is it
is now becoming socially acceptable.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
And by the way, I said before the break.

Speaker 4 (25:40):
This is not just a phenomenon of one end of
the spectrum.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Or the other. It's on both ends of the spectrum.

Speaker 4 (25:46):
I have heard personally some very disturbing extreme language, right
but dark woke.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Let's talk about that. What is that?

Speaker 4 (25:55):
That's the normalizing of saying that someone you disagree.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
With politically, ideologically, it is okay.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
It is okay to demonize them. It is okay to
say that you wish everyone who voted one way for
the current president, you wish them suffering and harm. This
is becoming normalized now. The difference is, I don't think
that they need to be, you know, have their free
speech rights taken away.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
I just think we have a right to call it out.
You know.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
I'll give you one example that I was disturbed on
both sides of something last summer when Donald Trump there's
the assassination attempt, the bullet hit his ear. That to
me was a culmination of a period of time of
many in the legacy media saying calling him a Nazi,
making it sound as though he's an existential threat to

(26:51):
everything that we hold. Now, however you feel about him
as a president or as a person, that is an
extreme element of dialogue.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
We have people like Jory Reid.

Speaker 4 (27:02):
Saying it's okay to disown members of your family if
they disagree with you.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
So it led to that.

Speaker 4 (27:08):
But then on the other side when that happened, what
did I see over Twitter when they were talking about
the people that fomented this kind of violent language that
she actually eventually ended up in an assassination attempt. On
the other side, I heard, well, you don't hate those
people enough. Talking about from a perspective of the right

(27:29):
most extreme towards the left most extreme, you don't hate
these people enough.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
You know, I'm for this. You can stand.

Speaker 4 (27:37):
Up definitely against policies principles, You can call out speech
that you think is bad. But we cannot, and this
goes back to thirteen twelve. We cannot force coerce speech,
and we cannot take away free speech. What we can
do is begin to be a different example in the
middle of this, I love what Martin luster King Junior
said when you said you cannot drive out with darkness

(27:59):
with dark does only light can do that. And hate
does not drive out hate. Only love can do that.
I don't want to silence anybody's speech, but I do
believe we need to be free to speak to ask
all of that and disagree. And then, by the way,
you don't have to listen to anybody's speech. You can
turn it off, but I hope you don't turn this off,

(28:20):
because when we come back, we're going to continue this conversation.
I'm going to read more of the great comments coming
in at five six six nine zero.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
That's five six six nine zero.

Speaker 4 (28:29):
And by the way, make sure you stay tuned in
the second hour because Gary Sonise Lieutenant Dan will be
joining me. I'm Debra Flora sitting in for Mandy Connell.
Happy Friday, every one. I don't know about you, but
I am especially looking forward to this weekend. Beautiful outside,
a great day to visit the mountains, to go on
a hike, to to sit and relax, to enjoy your weekend,

(28:51):
and I hope that you do. But there's still a
lot to cover before that. And one of the things
that we're talking about, it's a.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
Good opportunity, by the way, to.

Speaker 4 (29:00):
Talk to that neighbor when you're out mowing the lawn
or planting.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Your flowers, that neighbor who.

Speaker 4 (29:05):
Maybe you know you one hundred percent don't agree with
on certain issues. Because I found over and over and
over again when we do. I do believe that eighty
percent of our fellow citizens agree in eighty percent of things.
We are just so hyper focused on the ones that
we don't.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
And that is why free speech is so important.

Speaker 4 (29:27):
We've been talking about that, particularly in light of the
bill thirteen twelve. But I want to make sure to
read a few more of these great comments coming in
from listeners five six, six, nine zero. You can text
and join the conversation. One one listener texted, how can
we lose our free speech? Is this thirteen twelve? Yes,

(29:49):
thirteen twelve. Many of us were there testifying, you know
the We left probably around right before eleven o'clock, my
husband and I after testifying.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
While some of.

Speaker 4 (29:59):
The part have been removed, that had to do with
potentially parents losing custody of their child if they don't
agree to transition them. Got to be vigilant. That could
be put back in. But what is still in there
is something that comes to the core of what it
actually means to discriminate. Discrimination in our constitution has almost

(30:21):
always been solely about actions or behavior, not about words.
And in this bill, it will change our Colorado Anti
Discrimination Act to include dead naming or misgendering.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
And let me say this upfront.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
I believe every person has a right to say to
another individual, hey, don't call me that.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
You know, I'd prefer to be called this.

Speaker 4 (30:45):
As a woman in professional fields, I've produced movies, I've
been out doing a lot of things.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
I serve on national boards.

Speaker 4 (30:51):
If any everyone ever calls me hey, sweetie or hay, honey,
you know, the only one that calls me honey is
my husband. I usually just say, hey, you know, I
really prefer you call me by my name if they
call me debbie. Or when I was running for Congress,
one of my opponents called me little Debbie.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
I am not a snack.

Speaker 4 (31:08):
Cake, but I believe those people have a right to
see that, and then I have a right to say,
can you please call me by my name? That is
definitely something that we can all practice and do and
do our best to honor and respect one another's wishes. However,
you cannot force someone to say something they do not believe.

(31:29):
And when we do this, we're heading down a very
dangerous path, actually more extreme than California.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Another listener brought this up.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
There are places we cannot at practice our first Amendment
rights when it comes to threatening or causing danger or damage.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
That is absolutely true.

Speaker 4 (31:46):
You are not absolutely you're not allowed to say you
are going to kill somebody in a public office that
is going.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
To bring the FBI to your door.

Speaker 4 (31:57):
But I got to say something that I find interesting
the recent NCRI poll that showed that those who want
self identified as left of center felt it was somewhat
or completely justified to assassinate the current president or Elon Musk. Hey,

(32:18):
you can dislike their policies, you can absolutely vote against them,
you can rally against them, you can use your First
Amendment rights to speak against them.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
But that's crossing a line.

Speaker 4 (32:31):
Actually created something almost called the assassination culture that is
going on.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Let's see some of the others.

Speaker 4 (32:38):
We need to teach our high school and college grad
our skills on how to listen and learn and possibly
debate with grace. How do we do that? Great question?
I so appreciate that. There's something really interesting that I
want to bring to people's attentions called the dignity index,
and it is starting to be presented all around college campuses.

(32:58):
Reteaching people that ask questions is not an attack, It
is not a hateful act and by.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
The way, we need to reteach them.

Speaker 4 (33:05):
The first person that loses their cool or call someone
else's name has lost the debate most often. Now we
start at that place, so I agree we can start
with this next generation.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
The dignity index is a great way of self reflection
on our own speech.

Speaker 4 (33:20):
Do you vilify someone if they disagree with you or
do you just choose to disagree. So we're ready to
break so much to talk about, but make sure that
when we come back, you stick with us, because I've
got some good news to share about what's going on
in our country, both in the area of school choice
and also hope. There's a lot of hope that's growing
in this gen z and it's a very interesting thing

(33:41):
to see. So we're going to talk about that and
then also coming up in the next hour, my special guest,
Gary Sinise, Lieutenant Dan a friend of mine, is going
to be joining us to talk about some really amazing things.
Don't go anywhere, we'll be back. I'm Deborah Flora, sitting
in for Mandy Connell.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
The Mandy Connell Show is sponsored by Belle and Pollock,
Accident and three Lawyers.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
No, it's Mandy connellnn on KLA.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
Ninety more Onema.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Got Way, Say Kenn Nicey us through prey Ndyconnall, Keithy you,
sad Bab Welcome to the Mandy Connell Show. This is
not Mandy Connell.

Speaker 4 (34:26):
This is Deborah Flora sitting in for my friend Mandy today.
What a beautiful Friday. Hope you're getting ready for a
great weekend. I tell you, growing up in Colorado, I
love days like this. I love skiing in the winter,
but days like this just beckon you to the mountains
to go on a hike or and enjoy the beauty
around us.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
So hope that you're getting ready to do that.

Speaker 4 (34:47):
Well, we've already had a great hour talking about everything
from thirteen twelve to free speech and beyond. I appreciate
everyone who's been texting in and being a part of
the conversation.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Please do continue to text in through the.

Speaker 4 (34:58):
Common Spirit Health X line five six six nine zero.
But I want to shift gears here as we get ready.
By the way, for my very special guests who will
be joining us at one twenty five around there bottom
of the hour, and that's going to be Gary Sinise.
You may know him as Lieutenant Dan, as you know
one of his many TV shows with CSI. You may

(35:21):
know him as the patriot that he is through the
Gary Sidneys Foundation, he's done more USO tours than Bob Hope.
I think he surpassed that supporting our troops abroad and
then continuing to support those who are dealing with injuries
or family members, those who've lost someone in the service

(35:41):
of our country.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
A true patriot, a real friend.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
And he's also going to come and share a story
about something that's on his heart as a dad, and
we'll talk about that. But I want to switch it
up a little bit. We would talk about thirteen twelve
and it has to do with kids. But there's a
different side of something that's going on in our country
that's actually very very encouraging. Many of you may know
that I've been involved in school choice, in helping flip

(36:08):
our school board in Douglas County after it was shut
down during COVID and we found out about CRT programming
and training for teachers that was going on. I started
an organization called Parents United America back in twenty nineteen
after they passed the Comprehensive sex Ed Bill. Very similar
experience that feels like on the last day of the legislature,

(36:28):
despite hundreds of parents testifying. But I'm also honored to
serve on the board of some organizations that really are
making a difference. I remember the first time I went
to a luncheon for an ordization called ACE Scholarships, and
I think was in twenty twenty two perhaps, and I

(36:50):
remember sitting there and I think the speaker was Condollieza Rice,
and I just started weeping, almost because I've been looking
at the problem so much, and yes, the problems are big,
but sometimes we miss the solutions that are happening all
around us. So A Scholarships, for instance, I'm honored now
to be on the board of that organization gives scholarships

(37:12):
to in the last.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Twenty five years.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
Is the twenty fifth anniversary over one hundred thousand scholarships
to low income students often trapped in failing schools because
of their zip codes. Over three hundred and thirty million dollars. Now,
why don't I share that?

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Because there's a lot of good stuff.

Speaker 4 (37:30):
Happening in our country right now, and school choice is
one of them. And by the way, you can be
on every side of the aisle you can be from
any demographic, but there has been no doubt that school
choice most benefits those who are lower income, trapped in
failing schools, minority children who maybe do not have a

(37:53):
choice to go somewhere else. And so I don't care
what you call yourself, but this.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Is something that is good for everyone, and it does
tie in with.

Speaker 4 (38:01):
Thirteen twelve because it's about parents who know their children
better than anyone else.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
What it gives them the power to select the education
that best fits their student. You know, let me just
talk for a moment.

Speaker 4 (38:14):
As a mom, I've been an activist and fighting for
school choice in the front line. My husband I produced
a documentary called Whose Children Are They? Looking at the
failures in schools and what needs to change and all
of that. But I really got into this as a mom,
and as a mom of two children. We've got amazing

(38:35):
daughter who's twenty one now, can't believe it. A son
who's awesome who's twenty don't know how that happened. By
the way, just quick, quick moment.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Of privilege here. I just have to ask this question, if.

Speaker 4 (38:44):
Any other mom has experienced it, how do you feel
when you look at your.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
Son who now is six foot tall, has facial hair,
and can lift you up. I'm like, how did I give.

Speaker 4 (38:53):
Birth to that child who is now a young man?
But love both of them, so proud of them. But
anyone who's more than one child realize how different every
single child is. Our son loved being a part of
a public high school where he could play football and
he could be involved in all those activities and it
was a good school. Our daughter, on the other hand,

(39:14):
like many young girls, masked her autism and it was
not diagnosed until she was fifteen years old and she
was going to a public high school for one year.
They'd gone to private Christian school up until that point
in time, and then went from being a straight a
valictorian level student to having all kinds of challenges. We

(39:35):
then ended up realizing and she was diagnosed as autistic
and we hadn't.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Seen it because she masked it so well. She then
was able to have school choice.

Speaker 4 (39:45):
She went to a concurrent enrollment school where she ended
up taking all of the rest of her high school
classes at a community college and it fit her perfectly.
She ended up graduating with I think, I don't know
is something like a four point five GPA with both
her high school.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
Diploma and her.

Speaker 4 (40:04):
Associate's degree and then start her own business. I got
to tell you, I don't know where she would be
right now.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
Without school choice, because she would.

Speaker 4 (40:13):
Have continued failing with only one option. I think most
of us understand competition is good. Why do we settle
for a monopoly and the education of our children? Well,
that's beginning to change. There's some exciting things happening tomorrow
in Texas. And yeah, you might wonder why we're talking
about Texas, but what happens in Texas it's so big
it affects everyone. Tomorrow, Governor Greg Abbott will be signing

(40:36):
a one billion dollars school choice bill that will affect
one hundred thousand students in Texas, lower income students starting with.
And what it is is that just it allows parents
to choose that will get a certain amount of money
to put towards the education of their choice for their child.
My hope is that this begins to go everywhere. And

(40:57):
it's interesting because I know there's arguments born against it
because some of this money will be used for Christian schools.
But I have to say this, we either believe that
parents are able to raise the children according to their
own values and viewpoints or not.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
And by the way, competition is good.

Speaker 4 (41:14):
Let's look at a couple of the arguments against school choice.
The number one thing that we always hear is, oh,
my goodness, this is bad for your teachers. Now, first
of all, I am pro teacher, I am pro parent,
I am pro student. It is usually the teachers' unions
who get right in the middle of that.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
And let's be really clear.

Speaker 4 (41:35):
As student populations have gone up anywhere from seventeen to
eighteen percent since two thousand, administrators, by some records, have
gone up seventy five percent. That's where the money is going.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
So, first of all, look at the budget.

Speaker 4 (41:50):
Where's the money going, Because with all of this pushed
by teachers unions, teachers pay is.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Not going up.

Speaker 4 (41:58):
It has stagnated, and I believe they just more money.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
So what happens when their school choice. Well, actually, there's a.

Speaker 4 (42:04):
Cato Institute research study that says school choice competition leads
to higher pay for students, I mean, excuse me, for.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
Teachers, higher pay for teachers.

Speaker 4 (42:14):
Well, that only makes sense, right, competition The best teachers
are going to have competition for their skills, and they actually.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Make more money.

Speaker 4 (42:22):
By the way, not just in the private institutions, it
actually wherever there's school choice public school teachers income also
goes up because those schools want to keep those teachers
and hopefully will help them take money from a blow
to bureaucracy of education and put it where it belongs
for the teachers.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
So that is a very good thing.

Speaker 4 (42:43):
And by the way, currently government controls ninety percent of
all K.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Through twelve schools. I don't know about you.

Speaker 4 (42:49):
I grew up in the military and Lowry Air Force Base,
and while I loved the aspect of service, I saw
firsthand the government's not the best when it comes to
things like education or you know, healthcare. You know, going
through that process for our healthcare growing up. I don't
want the government to have ninety percent monopoly on anything.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
So school choice helps teachers. School choice also help students.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
There's data that comes from a scholarships that I love,
nearly a ninety nine percent graduation rate of those who
over the past twenty five years we have seen through
school choice are able to actually you know, go to
the school of their choice that fits them, get out
of failing schools, get out of dangerous schools, and test

(43:36):
scores are significantly higher among math and reading scores when
students have scholarships to go to the schools of their
choice than in the mainstream public education system where they're chapped.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
Now, I believe we need to continue to improve our
public education.

Speaker 4 (43:54):
Right now in Colorado, in public schools, I believe it's
around less than forty are proficient at reading lesson thirty
percent or proficient in math no matter way, anyway you slice,
this competition is going to.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Be good for education because it leads.

Speaker 4 (44:12):
To excelling at things. It leads to realizing, you know what.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
That's the basic job of schools and it's not doing
it very well. I want to share a really heart
warming and heartrending.

Speaker 4 (44:27):
Story that was shared at the Ace Scholarship's twenty fifth
anniversary lunch, and it's about a mom in Texas, single mom,
working hard. She is an African American mom, and it's
a story of two of her children. Two of her children,
one her son named Terrence, and one her daughter named Miracle,

(44:47):
both in the same household, both in the same area
of Texas, both in the same neighborhood and zip code.
Terrence was not allowed to have the school of his choice,
no matter how much his mom wanted to get him
out of a school that was dangerous. He went down
a pathway of drug abuse and eventually died of an overdose,

(45:08):
breaking his mom's heart. Different story, same household, a daughter
named Miracle who greta amazingly adopted from a mom who
is incarcerated. This woman is amazing. She raised Miracle, same household,
same neighborhood, same area.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Of Texas, but she got a scholarship, was able to
go to school of her choice.

Speaker 4 (45:28):
And she is flourishing. She is excelling in every way
you could think of. She plays multiple sports and her
future is so bright. What was the only difference between
those two children, same household, same area, The ability to
access the school that fit them best. And you know
most parents poll that want school choice, it's not even

(45:50):
for the academic aspect. It's actually because of safety issues.
It's a whole other topic. But when we look at that,
I think that's a very important thing to talk about.
Other thing I want to share about school choice. We
talked about the Texas ESA bill going to be signed
in Texas tomorrow, biggest of its kind, and it will,
I believe, begin to turn this tide even more. It's

(46:11):
happening in several states. There's one other bill. Keep your
eye on. Rite your congress person, ask them to keep
it in the reconciliation bill that they're looking at right
now for the budget in Congress. And that's called the
the ECCA Bill, and ECCA stands for Educational Choice for
Children at What does it do? Writes ten billion dollars

(46:32):
in annual tax credits to fund private and religious case
through twelve schools and schools that people's choice basically doesn't
have to be religious.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Why is this a great idea?

Speaker 5 (46:42):
It will affect all fifty states, including Colorado. It will
be in effect in all fifty states from a federal level.
And by the way, if anybody tries to argue you
against this, just remind them that what this actually is
is individual people or companies putting their own money in

(47:03):
to help children get out of failing schools or dangerous schools.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
This isn't taxpayer dollars. But by the way, I could
still make the argument that you're in my taxpayer dollars. Really,
at the end of the day, should be able to
be used by the taxpayers the government shouldn't be able
to monopolize schools in that way. So school choice good
for parents definitely because their voices are heard, good for teachers,

(47:28):
and good for students. So I think that that is
a pretty phenomenal thing that's happening around the country.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
And by the way, Colorado previously has led.

Speaker 4 (47:39):
The way on school choice, and I think that's something
that we absolutely need to encourage people to get back to.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
I do want to say there's something in the news
about school choices.

Speaker 4 (47:49):
Supreme Court heard a case this week on charter schools
and it was Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board versus Drummond.
And what this was is in Oklahoma, a Catholic virtual
charter school was allowed to become an official charter school.
It was a religious Catholic virtual school. The Alklaholma's own

(48:11):
attorney general suit against it, and now they're hearing it.
It comes down to this. It was about the fact
of whether tax dollars should go to if a parent
wants towards a religious education. Now I have to say
this just to remember, by the way, this is for
if your child is Jewish or of some other faith.

(48:32):
This isn't just about Catholic or Christian schools, but.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
I want us to just have the default this way.

Speaker 4 (48:39):
There's already religion being taught in almost every school by
certain standards.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
Humanism has been classified as.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
A religion, or if you're pushing DEI or woke tenants,
it has.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
A religious fervor to it.

Speaker 4 (48:53):
But at the end of the day, it comes down
to this, does a parent have a right to choose
the education for their child that best fits their value system?
Obviously within the constitution of the United States. That is,
in other words, you know, you could have in Islamic
school as long as it is not about Sharia law
versus over our constitution.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
Okay, that's a topic about that.

Speaker 4 (49:16):
I am going to head to a break because I
want to make sure we have plenty of time for
my next guest.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
Coming up.

Speaker 4 (49:20):
We've got Gary Snise. Lieutenant Dan will be joining us.
He's a friend, he's a patriot, he is a loving
father that has a very interesting story to share in
something I think you're going to find very moving. So
don't go anywhere. When we come back, my guest, Lieutenant Dan,
will be on the show. I'm Deborah Flora, sitting in
for Mandy Connell. This is Deborah Flora sitting in for

(49:58):
Mandy Connell and I'm just listen to this music and
wish I could just keep it playing because this music
is an amazing tribute and the creation of Maxnise. Good
friend Gary Sonise is joining us right now on this
show and this is his son Max music.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
Gary. Thank you so much for being with me today.
I so appreciate it. Debrah, good to be with you,
good to hear you, good to hear you, and good to.

Speaker 4 (50:25):
Hear this beautiful, beautiful music. Well Gary, for you know,
most people know you as Lieutenant Dan or they know
you for all your years on CSI or your amazing
work with the Gary Sonise Foundation supporting our troops and
those who've lost loved ones in service of our country.
And we'll get to a little bit about that. But
you're also a dad, you know. The years we've known

(50:45):
each other. The thing I think that is so heartwarming
for me to see the amazing husband and father that
you are. Tell us a little bit about Mac who
did pass away your amazing son on January fifth of
twenty twenty five, and this music that is his legacy.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
Well, yeah, thanks, thanks so much. Thanks for having me
and for playing the music. That that piece that you
were playing there just now is a piece that Mac
began to write in college. He went to USC Music School,
graduated in twenty fourteen, and during his last final year

(51:25):
in college, he was working on that piece that's called
Arctic Circles and he never finished it. And Mac, really,
you know, he went into USC as a drummer, and
by the time he was graduated in twenty fourteen, he
was a songwriter. He was a composer. He wanted to

(51:46):
write music for film. He was conducting. I've got a
great video that I found on his phone of him
taking a conducting class learning how to conduct an orchestra.
And that's really what he wanted to do. And he
wrote this piece but never finished it. And unfortunately, he

(52:07):
was diagnosed with a very rare cancer in twenty eighteen
called cordoma. It's a tumor that starts in the spine.
And he was having a lot of trouble with his tailbone,
was hurting him to sit down, and he was having
all this pain and we discovered this tumor on his
sacrum and that began a very long and difficult cancer

(52:32):
journey for him. It disabled him. He couldn't play drums anymore,
he couldn't really play music. He was fighting cancer.

Speaker 6 (52:42):
And then in twenty twenty three he said to me, Dad.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
I've got this piece that I never finished in college,
and I've been thinking about it. And Mack was he
was disabled to the point where he was paralyzed from
the chest down. He was in a hospital bed for
several years. You know, we had to have something called
a Hoyer lift that we would strap him into a

(53:08):
gurney and we would lift him up and put him
in a chair, and you know, it was very, very difficult,
and he couldn't really play music anymore. But he and
he wasn't really thinking about music because as far as
finding cancer. But the fact that he said that to
me in early twenty three that he wanted to revisit
this piece of music and try to finish it was

(53:28):
really something special. And he went to work on.

Speaker 6 (53:33):
It with a couple of my band members and they
were helping him flesh it out.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
And out of the blue, a buddy of his from
college showed up, and they were composer pals in college,
and his buddy Oliver said, hey, let me help you
finish this and they went to work on it, and
in July of twenty three, they were in the studio
recording that piece of music that you heard right there
with a fantastic orchestra. These are all top studio musicians

(54:02):
in Los Angeles, and that began what turned into an
entire album of music that Mac worked on. Ten songs
came out of this music. This album he called it,
you know well, he calls it resurrection and Revival. And

(54:22):
one of the things that Mac did for my foundation,
he worked for my foundation. He wrote some of this
music thinking that maybe it could be used for the foundation.
One of the things he did there was he kind
of preserved, you know, I've got to you know, that
massive collection of stuff I had.

Speaker 6 (54:36):
Yes, he was preserving a lot of the archival stuff,
taking care of the collection, taking care of the memorabilia.
He would, I have all these old photographs of my
grandfather from World War One, and he kind of restored them,
resurrected them, and revived them. And he also resurrected and

(54:58):
revived this piece of music. So he decided to call
this He wanted to kind of look at this album
as something that would look at an old something old
and make it new again, make it live again. And
so many of the recordings on the record are just that.
He even does a version of the Star Spangled Banner

(55:20):
where he plays harmonica and it's a kind of a
different version something old that he made new again. And
the album is available at Garrisonesfoundation dot org.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
A lot of great music. Yeah, there's a second part
of the story that I'll tell you in a minute.

Speaker 7 (55:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (55:36):
And I love the fact that your beautiful wife, Moira,
that she recommended that Mac learn the harmonica because he
couldn't play the drums anymore.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
And you and I have a mutual friend who we
met through you.

Speaker 4 (55:49):
Sammy Davis Medal of Hona recipient, has a beautiful story
about playing Shannondoah when he was in his fox hoole
in Vietnam and learning it for his mom. And he
actually taught Mac how to play that for the album.
But I love the title Resurrectionary Revival. He revived so
many things. But Mac was also a young man of

(56:09):
great faith. I love that you have on on the
website the Gary Sindnez Foundation. By the way of tuning
in my guest Gary Sonise friend Patriot father.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
Artist actor musician.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
When you have heard that his favorite quote was from
Saint Augustine. You have made us for yourself, oh Lord,
and our hearts are restless until they rest in you.
Is a blessing to know where Mac is resting now.
But tell us a little bit about those final days,
because I know you've shared you know, his faith and
how that inspired people around him.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
No, well, that's that quote is like a perfect quote
for Mac because he.

Speaker 6 (56:49):
Had you know, he he went through his college years.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
He did really well in college, you know, with music
and what he was doing in music, but there was
a lot of you know, he was a young guy
who was really searching just for a lot in his
own spirit and his own self. And it was kind
of a miracle debr because you know, in twenty sixteen,

(57:16):
end of twenty sixteen, Mac Mac had been living on
his own, he'd been touring with bands, he'd been overseas,
you know, doing the tour thing. He'd been trying and
supporting himself as a drummer and musician. But at the
end of twenty sixteen he called us McCall moyra and
eye up and he said, Mom and Dad, I want
to come home. Wow, and he he said, I'm not

(57:40):
in a good place and I want to come home.
And he was just living in Glendale, you know, so
it was just a drive, get in the car and
come over, and of course we said yes, and he
came and he started really re examining. He just needed
a total regod groping in his life. He was really searching,

(58:03):
he was really feeling lost, and he started some therapy
with a Catholic therapist friend of ours, and he started
to discover something about himself that was missing, and it
was God and it was his faith, and you know,

(58:27):
he went to Catholic school and everything, but like a
lot of teenagers, you know, he went off and you
know then just sort of didn't pay attention and he
was really looking for something and his heart was restless.
And David started to providing brought my friend who's the therapist,

(58:48):
started providing him with some great material to read, and
he started reading it. He started studying his Bible. He
discovered a bishop named Robert Baron who he he became
just a big fan of and started, you know, watching
this podcast and listening to him, and by twenty eighteen

(59:10):
he was confirmed in the Catholic Church. As a Catholic
and it was just like a different guy.

Speaker 7 (59:16):
You know.

Speaker 3 (59:16):
Something happened to him. Between the end of twenty sixteen
and a year and a half later, he started working
for the Gary Snese Foundation. He was very involved in
church life. He was very involved with the foundation and
service mission stuff. He was still composing music and this
all happened. He was confirmed in his church in May

(59:39):
of twenty eighteen, and two months later, Wow, it was
diagnosed with cancer.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
Yeah, you know, there's someone had Gary.

Speaker 3 (59:49):
Yeah. Had Mac remained in that sort of dark and
lost place that he was prior to coming home and
then been told that you have a giant tumor on
your sacrum and it's an incurable cancer. Had he still
been in that restless place, that cancer fight would have

(01:00:11):
been just impossibly difficult. It was already difficult. I mean,
you're fighting an incurable cancer. But he had a faith,
and he had strength, and he had you know, he
had a lot in his soul and spirit that was
guiding him and helping him through that. And it was

(01:00:33):
really a miracle that he, you know, really had rediscovered that.
When he did, it was like Mac was resurrected and revived.
You know what, he found his faith again and you've.

Speaker 4 (01:00:45):
Been such Gary. And if you're tuning in, my guest
is Gary Sinise. I think everyone knows him as a
lieutenant dan, artist, musician, patriot, Gary Sinese Foundation talking about
his son Mac, who in his last days, through Gary,
your Health and many others, recorded his beautiful music. The
album's called Resurrection and Revival and that's such a beautiful

(01:01:07):
and perfect, perfect, uh you know, title for this. And
in our last minutes here before we head to the break,
talk about how all of these proceeds, Mac wanted to
go to your foundation that supports the military and those
who serve us selflessly, who in a biblical way also
are willing to lay down their lives for their friends.

(01:01:28):
Can you share a little bit about that in the
work of the Garysonese Foundation.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
Yeah, Deba. So Mac came home, you know, as I said,
he came home, he started, you know, some therapy, he
started looking at things, and he also came to work
for the Garysonese Foundation, which I had been trying to
get him to do for a while. And think about it,
because he had expressed a little bit of dismay here
and there, and I said, well, why did you dip
your toe in the water and just come and work

(01:01:54):
part time and see what we're doing with the service
mission over there. And he was, you know, he didn't
want to take advantage of it, Dad and all that
kind of stuff. Wanted to be on his own, but
he did. He came, and he started to discover that
the service work that I was engaged in was really
just uplifting and he really fell in love with it

(01:02:15):
and that and so he was a part of the mission.
And when he got cancer, and when he decided to
do the record, he said, Dad, why don't we make
a hundred vinyls just so I can give them to people,
and if we ever sell any the money could go
to the Garrisonese Foundation. And so he never he never
thought that his album would be a commercial thing. He

(01:02:37):
was doing it for, you know, just a personal project
of his. But he wanted something to be able to
hand to friends. You know, you can say download it
or whatever, but he wanted to hand something to somebody.
So he wanted to make a hundred vinyls. And after
he died, I went ahead and ordered five hundred and
then we you know, put it on website and said

(01:03:01):
these are available, and all of a sudden we had,
you know, two thousand orders, and so we had to
print so many more. Now the record, the record has
sold the first record. There are two, and I'll talk
about that if you want, but the first record has
sold over five thousand copies now with all the proceeds
going to the Garysonese Foundation.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
That's amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
And Gary, I'm gonna have to have you on another
time to talk about the second one because we only
have a minute left.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
But I want to make sure that everyone knows where
they can get.

Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
The record, and because it goes to obviously the amazing
work Curiti doing. So where can they find both of
these records, Resurrection and Revival and the other one by
Maxine's an honor to him, a legacy to him, but
also serving your mission.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
Yes, well, the vinyls are available at Garysonese Foundation dot org,
our website. The second record is that's all music that
I found on his laptop after he died, so I
put another record together. It's part two, Resurrection and Revival
Part two. So you can order the vinyls with the

(01:04:09):
proceeds going to the Gary Snee Foundation. Then you can
also download it on iTunes and Amazon, Spotify, all those
digital platforms.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
That's great. Well, thank you, Gary.

Speaker 4 (01:04:19):
We're heading to a break now, but give our best
Johnath and I Gary, best to you and Moira and
I just I'm grateful that you shared this story because
I think it's inspiring to so many and I know
you are as well.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
And God bless you, my friend.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
I sure appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
You got it. Take care, godless, Godless.

Speaker 4 (01:04:38):
Well that was my friend Gary Sinise, and we'll talk
more about that when we come back.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
I'm going to read some of the comments coming.

Speaker 4 (01:04:43):
In, but we'll be right back. I'm Deborah Flora sitting
in for Mandy Connell. You are listening to the music

(01:05:14):
of Maximise, Gary Sinise's son who passed away from a
very rare form of cancer and the last year of
his life was spent making this amazing music that can
be shared now with everyone. This is Deborah Flora sitting
in for Mandy Connell. If you miss the interview we
just had with my good friend Gary Sinise.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
I encourage you later today it will be posted.

Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
Along with Mandy's blog and you can also hear it
on iHeartRadio as well, it was a very moving interview
and you can hear from the music in the background
right here that Mack was truly a beautiful soul and
the world's much better place for what he shared and
what his father has worked so hard to preserve. Many

(01:05:56):
of you know Gary Sinise as Lieutenant Dan and as
well as from his TV series CSI, from his work,
you know, with the troops through the Gary Sneeze Foundation.
It's been a good friend of ours for a while.
We had the privilege, my husband and I have doing
a documentary on Gary in his life called Lieutenant Dan
Band for the Common Good, and it was during the

(01:06:20):
Gulf War. They went to Forward operating basis, my husband
and Gary far beyond you know where most people go,
right across his stone's throw, almost from the board of Assyria,
and there are so many stories of when the troops
that we're serving, and my husband would record it on camera,
were so moved that someone like Gary would go that

(01:06:40):
far out to visit the troops. I mean, that's true service.
This is someone who could have just continued in comfort
making series and movies, and granted he did a fabulous
job on that, but that's something that I think is amazing.
And you know he talked a lot in the interview
about his faith. We know Gary and his wife Moira

(01:07:03):
their faith and how their son Mac. And let me
back out a second. When you go to the Gary
Senese Foundation dot org, you'll see pictures of Mac. We
first met Mac when he's playing the drums with Lieutenant
Dan Band in one of the many performances in front
of the troops. And young, vibrant, amazing, young man, talented, gifted.

(01:07:25):
I do encourage everyone to go to the Gary Sides
Foundation dot org and get a copy of this album.
It goes through a great cause. It goes to the
Gary Sydney Foundation. He isn't doing it for that reason,
but it carries on the legacy of this young man.
Several texts have been coming in. One person asked, is
any work being done in the medical community to improve
early diagnosis or treatment of cardoma?

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
That is the rare cancer of.

Speaker 4 (01:07:51):
The spine, of the spinal column that took Max's life.
And yes, Gary and his family did huge work on
that to get early diagnosis and you can see that
also linked at the Cardoma Foundation. Another caller texted in.
Another listener texted in Thank you, Deborah. Chills and tears
of joy for Max Music. Oh You're gonna get me

(01:08:12):
choked up. I cannot wait until I can order them
after work. I so love and appreciate Gary Sinise and
his foundation. What a wonderful man.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
Please share the love with him. I sure will.

Speaker 4 (01:08:22):
We're going to be talking again very soon. And I
appreciate that. One of the things I wanted to share.
And there's some cynicism couple texts that I'm not going
to read because I'm not going to do them the
service of denigration.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
But really, you know, basically criticizing.

Speaker 4 (01:08:39):
Faith, I gotta tell you, I'm a woman of faith,
and faith does not mean you do not go through
hard times. It is how you go through those hard times.
And I want to share something. Mac, a young man
that could have lived his final year in anger at
his life ending so young. Here was his favorite quote,
and it was by Saint Augul.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
You have made us for.

Speaker 4 (01:09:01):
Yourself, oh Lord, and our hearts are restless until they
rest in you. You may or may not believe that,
but I sure do, and I do believe that Mac
is resting now and is enjoying the benefit that his
faith has led him to, and I'm grateful that for
that faith that upholds people like my friend Gary Sonise
and so many others. If you don't have that faith,

(01:09:23):
I'm going to just simply quote Chris Pratt. There are
very few Hollywood people I woul quote so far, Gary
Sneeze and Chris Pratt. But Chris Pratt said one time
on the MTV Awards, you have a soul, take good
care of it. Pray it's good for your soul. There's
a God, he loves you. Those were his three prattisms
for life. So I'm gonna leave you with that before
we go to the break. When we come back, we

(01:09:45):
are going to have Dan Snowberger. He's a superintendent of
Elizabeths School District. We're gonna talk about the good work
he and the school board are doing standing up for
the parents and the children of that district. Don't go anywhere.
I'm Deborah Flora sitting in for Mandy Connell.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
Mandy Call Show is sponsored by Bill and Pollock Accident
and Injury Lawyers.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
No, it's Mandy Connell.

Speaker 6 (01:10:09):
On KLA.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
Ninety four one.

Speaker 4 (01:10:13):
Fay Ken the Nicey Prey Bendy Donald.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
Sad bab.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
Welcome to the Mandy Donald Show.

Speaker 4 (01:10:28):
I'm Deborah Flora sitting in for Mandy Connell. If you've
missed any of the show today, definitely check it out
later date. It'll be on Mandy's blog post. It'll be
on iHeart on the podcast. Had a great interview with
Gary Sonise still getting so many texts in about his
inspiring story of his son and his son's strength and

(01:10:48):
legacy in his music. Died young of cardoma, but not
before sharing an amazing album of music and sharing his
faith and inspiration with many.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
So make sure you see you hear. We're gonna switch
gears here.

Speaker 4 (01:11:03):
My next guess is going to talk to us from
a completely different part of the country, shall we say,
from Hollywood, although Gary doesn't live there anymore, but right
in Elbert County. I love Elbert County. The people there
are some of the kindest, best people. My husband I
ever have the opportunity to spend time with him. One
of those people is joining me now and that is

(01:11:24):
Dan Snowberger. He is the superintendent of Elizabeth School District.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
Not a place that you'd expect to be in the
national news, but it is. Dan. Thank you so much
for joining me on the show today. I appreciate it.

Speaker 7 (01:11:36):
Thank you Devor. It's great to be here.

Speaker 4 (01:11:38):
Hey Dan, you know, before we get started, people need
to know that you and I really also do have
a little bit of an entertainment background. We were judges,
not of American Idol, but if Elbert County has talent,
and I think we did a good job.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
That's my opinion. Anyway we did.

Speaker 7 (01:11:56):
Spending that time, it was.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
Great, it was great.

Speaker 4 (01:11:58):
Well, now, in a more serious topic, I want to
just frame this before we begin. Whenever we talk about
choosing books that are age appropriate for children, the other
side immediately calls out things like book banning. Let's be
really clear prefacing this conversation. We're talking about the ability,
as has always been the tradition in our country until recently,

(01:12:23):
to determine whether.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
Books are age appropriate.

Speaker 4 (01:12:27):
Sexual in nature, dangers in nature, or age appropriate for children. So, Dan,
with that preface, just give us a brief overview of
where you all find yourself right now with the ACLU.

Speaker 7 (01:12:39):
Sure, definitely, thanks Deborah. We currently are engaged in a
lawsuit with the ACLU. It is currently sitting both at
the District Court here in Denver as well as at
the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals. We have appealed a
preliminary injunction. Unfortunately, the stay was listed and these books
were about to talk about or had to be returned

(01:13:01):
to our libraries. But we continue to look forward to
the legal system working for us and recognizing that what
our board did was actually in the best interest of
children versus what we're being accused of.

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
Yeah, and let's talk about that.

Speaker 4 (01:13:16):
So these books, eighteen books, eighteen titles less than point
zero five percent of what you actually have in your library.
Let's talk about the process that led to those being removed,
because this wasn't just all of a sudden, a whim
two or three people decided we just don't want these books,
and we don't like them, we don't agree with them.
First of all, your school district went through a thorough

(01:13:38):
process before these books were removed. Can you talk about
what that process was?

Speaker 7 (01:13:43):
Absolutely, and I think that's really key, as there was
a critical process. We were alerted in twenty twenty three
during the school year from parents that they were concerned
about some of the books their children were bringing home,
and so our board charged our curriculum Review committee with
reviewing the thousand books that exist in our libraries. And
in that process, nineteen books were found that were inappropriate

(01:14:07):
based on where they were placed in our library. And
that's really key, and I appreciate you bringing that up,
because it's not a matter of are these books good
or bad, it's are they appropriate at the books at
the level where they appeared. We had We had, for instance,
a book that was at the middle school also at
the high school. That book was removed through this process

(01:14:30):
from the middle school because of the age and appropriateness
of the content, but that book remains at the high
school because it wasn't appropriate book for older students. And
so you know, through this process, the board notified the community.
Of course, again they wanted to be transparent because it
was parents who brought the concern to them about books
in the library we've displayed there originally were nineteen books identified.

(01:14:53):
One was never returned from the last patron who had
checked it out, so we had eighteen books that were
displayed for twenty five day period and during that time
we had community members come in review those books, review
the content, and provide our board feedback. Overwhelmingly, the community
one of those books removed, feeling that they not only

(01:15:14):
were inappropriate, but also lacked the educational value for the
specific age groups where they where those books appeared.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
Yeah, and let's be.

Speaker 4 (01:15:23):
Clear what we're talking about here, because I'm already getting
you know, listeners who are texting about banning books. Okay,
we're not banning books. These students and their parents could
get these books at any local library. They are available
far and wide. The question is, as has been the
process until recently, schools have the responsibility to determine through

(01:15:46):
community input, which is what happened.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
Here, whether or not is age appropriate.

Speaker 4 (01:15:50):
So when we're looking at these books, and this is
just in the school libraries, when we're looking at these books,
from my understanding, Dan, and if you're tuning in, I'm
Deborah floresting it for me. Connell, I guess Dan Snowberger,
the superintendent of Elizabeth School District, now being.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
A small rural school district.

Speaker 4 (01:16:07):
Being now under the hammer of the very massive and
well funded ACLU, you went through this long process. The
books in question, from my understanding, have either very pornographic content,
either have step by step descriptions of how to commit
suicide or things of that nature.

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
Am I correct?

Speaker 3 (01:16:26):
That's correct?

Speaker 7 (01:16:26):
Yes, very very vivid sex violence in these books. And again,
you know, one of the challenges Eva and I always
share this as an example. You know, the federal government
requires school districts to have an Internet protection filter on
our email and on our internet. When we were responding
to the courts on this complaint and we were using

(01:16:48):
quotes from these books, they would not pass through that
filter that we're required to have from the federal government.
And so again, this is not this is not peg content,
this is this is very graphic content in eighteen books.
I know that the ACOU has has painted it as
books that might contain LGBTQ topics or or people of color,

(01:17:10):
and that's such an inappropriate and false description of these books.
You described them very well. Some books contain very explicit
hard drug use, including methods for students to think about
how to consume some of those drugs. And then you know,
pH information at the elementary level on on how a

(01:17:33):
child can transition. Again, a five year old picking up
a book like that without their parents' guidance and without
their their parental permission. You know, our district has really
focused on parental rights, and we believe very strongly that
we need to empower our parents. And when we have
books like this on our shelves where kids can just
you know, easily take them off without a parent having

(01:17:54):
some guidance involved, that is a concern.

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
And I'm id you pointed.

Speaker 7 (01:17:59):
Out this isn't a ban. Any child who brought one
of these books in to read during during free time,
they're not in trouble. I'm going to have that book
taken away from them. It just is a book that
we want to make sure a parent selects for their child,
and that a parent could actually provide guidance on the
content sound in these books.

Speaker 4 (01:18:16):
There you go. The theme throughout this day so far
has been it is the right of the parent to
guide the upbringing and education of their child, and this
was parent initiated local control and not banning books.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
Well, we're heading to a break, Dan.

Speaker 4 (01:18:31):
This fight goes on, and it is something that I
hope everyone listening comes alongside, because it was said a
dangerous precedent where even school districts and going through this
process could not make the determination. I find it funny
that on one hand they're saying, oh, trust the teachers,
trust the schools, and on the other hand, if they
don't like what's being decided, then there's a big push

(01:18:54):
against it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
There are funds being.

Speaker 4 (01:18:57):
Raised because Aclus obviously completely he has a ton of
money compared to Elizabeth School District. And what I want
to share is, ironically it's all come full circle. The
group I founded in twenty nineteen, Parents United America dot org,
there are funds that you can donate for the legal
defense of a due process here with the school district.

(01:19:20):
I'll give the last word is then we're heading to
the break. What else would you want to share with
people listening?

Speaker 7 (01:19:25):
Dan, Just to just appreciate the opportunity. Our website is
Elizabeth School District dot org and we are posting information
as we progress through this case, so anyone interested in
following along. There's also a link to Parents United on
our website. And so again, just appreciate the opportunity devor
to get this story out. Certainly appreciate your focus on it.

Speaker 4 (01:19:47):
You got it and I will share that on my
Twitter feed also at Debra flora one where you can donate.
Thank you so much, Dan, thanks for the good work
that you're doing for the families, as students and the
education system in Elizabeth.

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 7 (01:20:01):
Thank you, you have a great day.

Speaker 6 (01:20:03):
You two.

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
Well, we will be right back.

Speaker 4 (01:20:05):
I'm Devera Flora sitting in for Mandy Connell Friday Friday
Royd thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:20:11):
A Rod, you're here for me. I appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (01:20:13):
Well, that's kind of a weird transition I'm gonna make.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
To the sports world. That's kind of sports. This is
kind of sports.

Speaker 4 (01:20:19):
So this week I was talking at the first hour
about the ACE Luncheon. I'm on the board of a Scholarships,
which is a great organization that gives out scholarships to
lower income students. And the speaker this week was Nick Saban. Now,
I'm a Buck Eye fan. I'm married to Buck Guy.
We are such buck Eye fans that our dog is
a named Archie after Archie Griffin, the only two time

(01:20:42):
Heisman Trophy winner.

Speaker 2 (01:20:43):
In case enmy was wondering.

Speaker 4 (01:20:45):
But when I kind of tried to do some smack
talk with Nick Saban, you don't smack talk with Nick Saban.

Speaker 7 (01:20:50):
But he did.

Speaker 4 (01:20:51):
He didn't remind me that he actually coached in Ohio,
Ohio State, I think Kent State for a period the Browns.
He didn't talk about that very much, but it was
a great, great lunch, and he said some amazing things.
And I'm going to pose this question as we head
to the break, but I'm gona pose it first to
a Rod because he said one quote I want to
share first of all, which he said, it is nice

(01:21:13):
to be important, but it is more important to be nice.
I thought that was an amazing, amazing perspective and not
what I expected to hear from like a die hard
competitive coach.

Speaker 2 (01:21:24):
But he really went to character more than anything.

Speaker 4 (01:21:27):
But here's a question that was asked him, and I'm
not going to give his answer until after the break,
but here is the question I found most interesting. The
person talking with him on this stage during the lunch
and asked him, Nick Saban, what is the one thing
you have to make.

Speaker 2 (01:21:39):
Sure you do every single day?

Speaker 7 (01:21:42):
Ay?

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
Rod, how would you answer that question the one thing
I have to make sure to do every single day.
I could give the cop out answer, and you say,
just be grateful in general.

Speaker 4 (01:21:54):
Some peopleuse they just wake up cheat. That would be
even more of a cop out.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
But I like that in general. I mean, I like it.
But the true answer is I got to give love
to my wife.

Speaker 4 (01:22:04):
Uh Okay, that is really really good, really good. Well,
your wife scored. I scored because my husband is always
kind to me. Well, I'm going to share when we
come back a little bit more of what Coach Saban said.
But I also want to hear from you. What is
the one thing that you wouldn't make sure that you
do every single day? The text line is five.

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
No brushing your teeth answers.

Speaker 4 (01:22:27):
Okay, yeah, no brushing your teeth answers, But do text
in tell me what that is at five six six
nine zero. That's five six six nine zero. No, don't
get too personal. I don't want to know the things
I don't want to know. But what's the one thing
you have to make sure you do every single day?
And I'll give you Coach Saban's answer when we come back.
I'm Deborah Flora sitting in for Mandy Connell. I get
having Margaret Reta tonight. It has been a busy week,

(01:22:50):
so much happening. And yes, so tequila is a good song.

Speaker 2 (01:22:52):
Thank you a Rod for that.

Speaker 4 (01:22:53):
That makes me happy, of course absolutely. Well, before we
went to the break, I was talking about the opportunity
Nick Saban Coach Saban speak this week, and you know,
being one of the most winningest coaches in all of
college football history, an amazing number of championships. It was
a great opportunity to hear him, and he talked about character,

(01:23:15):
and he talked about making sure that you're always competing
against yourself and not the person next you. He talked
about when he was growing up and his dad was
a coach, that they would win almost all their games,
but he'd still come back home and he'd hear everything
that he did wrong, and finally he got upset and he.

Speaker 2 (01:23:31):
Asked his dad.

Speaker 4 (01:23:32):
He was like, you know why we won. Why is
that what you're focusing on? He said, because you don't understand.
It's not about winning, It's about did you give your
very best? Did you play your best? That kind of
character led to so many championships and so many teams.
He talked about how one of the major focuses was
making sure that these college athletes graduated and had good

(01:23:55):
grades as well.

Speaker 2 (01:23:56):
So he talked about all those statistics.

Speaker 4 (01:23:58):
So when he was asked the question that I posed
a rod and I posed to all of you listeners
before he went to the break, he was asked this question,
what is the one thing that you make sure you
do every single day. It could have been a myriad
of things. It could have been, you know, talk about
what it means to be a champion, run exercise, read something.

Speaker 2 (01:24:21):
Here is what he said. The one thing he makes
sure that he does every.

Speaker 4 (01:24:25):
Single day is pray to be a blessing to others
instead of focusing on being blessed. I thought that was
an amazing way to talk about it. And yes, I
actually do believe that is what leads to a champion
spirit because his focus was always on has always been
on others, and he would teach that to his players.

(01:24:47):
He said he started a foundation where his players would
go and build homes for others or help the needy
in some way to get them to focus on what
it means to be there for us other people, to
serve other people, to make that your focus, not yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
And I do think it's something that's been lost a
lot in sports. And we'll get to that, but I.

Speaker 4 (01:25:09):
Do want to first read some of the responses I
asked you, the wonderful listeners, and you can still text
in at five six six nine zero five six six
nine zero.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
Let me know, let us know what is the one
thing you have to do every day. Some did were
more traditional.

Speaker 4 (01:25:27):
They were a good hygiene appreciative. Whoever did that, that's
a good thing to do, for sure. Another one said
go to the bathroom. It's very important. Agreed, the alternative
would be very bad. But here are some of the
other ones that people came up with. One was, the
one thing I do every day, Deborah, is to be
grateful for my problem, since zero is so much less

(01:25:47):
than other people. Love.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
That's that's a great way to have perspective, like a rod.

Speaker 4 (01:25:53):
Another person said, love my wife. Another person said, I
am with a rod.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
I also have to.

Speaker 4 (01:26:00):
Treat my wife lovingly every single day.

Speaker 2 (01:26:02):
That's a good one. And then another one said, feed
my cows.

Speaker 4 (01:26:07):
I think you must be one of those hard working
individuals that are in our very important agricultural and ranching community.
And yes, those people have to get up every single moment,
every single morning, whether it's weekend or vacation or a holiday,
and take care of their livestock.

Speaker 2 (01:26:25):
So thank you for that.

Speaker 4 (01:26:26):
Another person said, make my bed in the morning. Okay,
you put me to shame. I that is just not
something I do.

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
Right away. This one, this listener, thank.

Speaker 1 (01:26:36):
You for this.

Speaker 4 (01:26:36):
It was very fun check the obituaries to make sure
I'm not in them. That's a very existential one to
need to have it confirmed in the obituaries. But I
do appreciate that. The question we're asking is what is
the one thing you have to do every single day
or you will not go without a day without doing this.
Another one said, pray, Well, that's what Coach Saban said.

(01:26:59):
Another listener texted in said, I say my gratitudes out loud,
seems that they stick better once they leave.

Speaker 2 (01:27:06):
Just leave your.

Speaker 4 (01:27:07):
Thoughts, and I think that's great. And now the person
said they made their bed every day, still shaming me.
I think someone's doubling down on that, because that is
not something I do.

Speaker 2 (01:27:15):
If I'm going to add to this conversation, what do
I need to do every day? A couple things come
to mind.

Speaker 4 (01:27:22):
I spend every morning, almost every morning, reading the Bible
and praying and getting perspective. But really inspired by what
Coach Saban said.

Speaker 2 (01:27:31):
To make sure I add to that.

Speaker 4 (01:27:33):
Then I'm aware of how I can help other people
throughout the day, not just not just my own problems,
my own needs. That goes to the listener who said,
realizing that their problems are less than someone else's.

Speaker 2 (01:27:44):
I think that's important.

Speaker 4 (01:27:45):
The other thing I have to do every day is
make sure that the people closest to me I tell
them I love them at least once, because you never know,
you never know what the next day brings. So I
appreciate these coming in. There are a couple other things
that I took away from hearing coach Saban talk, and
he did talk about what's changed in college football and
how it's actually he's very concerned about it. Not that

(01:28:08):
individual players are able to perhaps you know, make income
on their own image and likeness, but these these conglomerates
that are raising tons of money for individual teams and
what that's doing to sports. I think we're seeing something
else going on in sports that is problematic.

Speaker 3 (01:28:24):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:28:25):
I'm not going to go on very long about Shidor Sanders,
because I think that he is a talented player, but
when you look at what happened there, I do think
we're seeing a.

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
Shift in our culture.

Speaker 4 (01:28:35):
Our culture has for so long been all about me,
the selfie generation. I did this hype is everything you know,
blow your own horn, make sure everybody knows what you've done.

Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
My husband are huge football fans.

Speaker 4 (01:28:48):
Our son plays football at a small college in Iowa,
and we just love that he does that.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
But he keeps his grades first and foremost.

Speaker 4 (01:28:57):
But we've gotten tired of watching at the end of
a play what happen happens. Usually one person is down
there cheering, pointed themselves, doing an entire routine focus on themselves,
versus remembering everybody that it took to get to that
successful play, the coaches, the trainers, the other people that

(01:29:17):
are blocking for you, the one who drew the ball,
all of that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:20):
I think what happened in the case of Shador standers.

Speaker 4 (01:29:22):
There's many things that people have talked about it, but
if really from what's coming out afterwards is the hype,
the hype that over and over and over again preceded
him not going through the combine instead of having a
party with legendary signs saying legendary and signs of.

Speaker 2 (01:29:36):
Dollar bills all around.

Speaker 4 (01:29:39):
But I don't want to get down to heavier heart
on Shador, because I really hope and wish the best
for him. But I remember my husband was our son's
first football coach, and what he would always say to
our son is remember, coach ability is the most important
thing and what does coach ability really mean? Human humility

(01:30:02):
kind of comes full circle and I have to give
a shout out to Shador Sanders that after you dropping
to one hundred and forty fourth draft in the fifth round,
he did say afterwards in retrospection, he said that, you know,
he's learned a lot and he's really thinking about what
he could do better.

Speaker 2 (01:30:22):
That's a great thing.

Speaker 4 (01:30:23):
That is actually could be the moment that makes this
young man's trajectory. But I want to share the story
of a different football player because I'm going to get
back to something that I could see as.

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
Very encouraging in our culture. I think there is a shift.

Speaker 4 (01:30:36):
I think there's a shift, and one hunger and thirst
first of all, to move away from the vitriol on
both ends of the political spectrum. That's one place for
seeing it. People wanting to treat one another with respect.
I started the show by talking about two town halls
that I helped organize and moderate this week, one for
Home Role down in Douglas County, one last night against

(01:31:00):
thirteen twelve, and in both of those people attended from
both sides of the aisle and it ended up being
an actual civil conversation. Did we end up agreeing on everything? No,
but everyone in those forms was treated with respect and
that was a beautiful thing. So I see a movement
towards that. I see a movement away from this huge

(01:31:20):
bravado and hype and getting back to character. So here's
here's an alternative story. And once again, yes I am
a Buckeyes fan.

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
I married a Buck guye.

Speaker 4 (01:31:30):
But Cameron Babb Ohio State University, four star recruit, he's
not playing anymore. But when he did play, he was
expected to become a huge NFL star.

Speaker 2 (01:31:41):
Everybody thought he was gonna you know, he was a
four star recruit out of high school. But he ended up.

Speaker 4 (01:31:49):
Tearing his ACL four times. You would think that would
be the end of it. You would think that he'd
be bitter and angry, but instead his character kept him
in the game and he was named captain twice despite
not playing because of his injuries. And what did his
teammate say the most about him? They called him humble

(01:32:10):
and resilient. I think that's amazing. I think that's what
I heard from coach Saban, both about praying to be
a blessing and serve others instead of seeing what he
could get from himself.

Speaker 2 (01:32:21):
The character he taught to his players.

Speaker 4 (01:32:22):
That's a character that Cameron Bab showed, so he selected
as his team captaint.

Speaker 2 (01:32:27):
He finished his college career with only one catch. Think
about that.

Speaker 4 (01:32:33):
Four star recruit out of high school, went to Ohio
State Buck Guys, expected to.

Speaker 2 (01:32:38):
Be an NFL draft pick, not going on to play football.

Speaker 4 (01:32:41):
He only had one catch and was a touchdown in
his final year.

Speaker 2 (01:32:47):
And what happened.

Speaker 4 (01:32:48):
Everybody on the field that was a Buck guy rushed
down to celebrate with him, and then the entire team
left the sidelines, calling a penalty for delay of game,
but they didn't really care. I was there so much
support for this young man because of his humility and
what he said. And this is going to lead to
a very positive trend that I think we are seeing.

Speaker 2 (01:33:11):
In gen Z.

Speaker 4 (01:33:12):
Isn't it nice to say something positive about gen Z
for change? As a mom of two gen Zers, I'm
really happy about this, and I want to end with
some good news here on Friday. Well, Cameron Bab basically
points to how he got through four ACL tears, only
having one catch in his entire college career to his faith,

(01:33:37):
and he said, I just always wanted to serve.

Speaker 2 (01:33:39):
Others and show how my faith got me through so
it would get others through.

Speaker 4 (01:33:44):
By the way, tying this in with my interview in
the Last Hour with Gary Sinise, and please do make
sure you hear that it'll be posted on Mandy's blog.

Speaker 2 (01:33:54):
It will be on the iHeart podcast.

Speaker 4 (01:33:56):
Gary talked about his son Maxine, who died at a
very young age from kardom, a young young man just
recently and he was a strong young man musician, but
he spent his last year making music that would go
on and hopefully bless other people. He made sure the

(01:34:17):
proceeds go to his father, Gary Sonnise foundation that helps
those who serve or have been injured or their families,
and his was a faith driven last part of his journey.

Speaker 2 (01:34:29):
If you missed it, and make sure you listen.

Speaker 4 (01:34:32):
But there's something interesting happening in gen Z and I
want to just talk about this for a moment. In
the trajectory of our country, we've become a less and
less religious people. Now you can feel however you want
to about religion or not. I am a woman of faith.
It is central to my life. But there has been

(01:34:52):
an element of that that brings hope to people and
has been in the very foundation of our country. It
is actually the belief that every person is created with
intrinsic value, therefore individual rights from the creator, not from
the government. That's the foundation of our country. So it's
led to great things in our country. Well, we've been
moving away from that every generation. According to certain trends,

(01:35:16):
each generation has been less religious than the one.

Speaker 2 (01:35:19):
Previously for the last several decades.

Speaker 4 (01:35:22):
That has actually stopped and is beginning to turn around.
It's an interesting study that says a new data from
the Pew Research Center that shows that Gen Z is
now stop that trend. They are as religious and even
more religious than their previous generation. Pretty interesting, and we

(01:35:43):
can talk about why that is. But I want to
stop for a moment. It's so noticeable that the New
York Times is even noticing this. They took the time
to do investigative journalism.

Speaker 2 (01:35:52):
I do say that with air quotes. Those are air quotes.

Speaker 4 (01:35:55):
You're hearing investigative journalism to talk about what they consider
to be I don't know they thought I was alarming,
but a trend that needed to be called out, A
trend that suddenly there are many people wearing cross necklaces.
They are noticing it, by the way. On TV they
talked about Carolyn.

Speaker 2 (01:36:11):
Levitt, the White House Press Secretary.

Speaker 4 (01:36:13):
Attorney General Pam Bondi, who referred to her faith as
being important to her and getting her through her life.

Speaker 2 (01:36:20):
And then they noted that across TikTok.

Speaker 4 (01:36:22):
Young Christian women have been sharing the meeting behind their
own cross necklaces, saying they helped cultivate a sense of
belonging and connection with others. Okay, so so big, by
the way that it's getting noticed now, It's been happening
before The New York Time reported on it, which unfortunately
tends to happen with the New York Times because I
want to share a couple of things with you, and
it all ties back to Cameron bab across College campus

(01:36:45):
is Unfortunately, most of what we have been seeing lately
have been the anti Semitic pro Hamas riots that have
been going on.

Speaker 2 (01:36:52):
Many of those we know are starting to have repercussions.

Speaker 4 (01:36:56):
I won't talk now about Harvard, but you know they're
President Trump said he might defund them, and when they're
sitting on a fifty billion dollar endowment, by the way,
and students pay over eighty thousand dollars a year for tuition,
room and board. Yeah, maybe that is something to look at.
But particularly because they've been having policies that have been

(01:37:18):
promoting anti Semitism, allowing Jewish students to be actually somewhat
terrorized on their own campuses, that's not okay. But what
has been going on in college campus is that we
haven't been saying on the mainstream news. They're actually revivals
that are happening all over our country at college campuses.
For instance, University of Arkansas, Texas A and M had

(01:37:40):
nearly ten thousand students show up for a student led
worship service. It was pretty amazing. Florida State University, Yes,
Mandy's alma mater, the number one party school in America,
had nearly forty five hundred students show up. And in
Ohio State, this young man Cameron bab that I was
sharing with you, he ended up starting a revival with

(01:38:02):
other Buckeye players where about.

Speaker 2 (01:38:05):
One thousand students gathered.

Speaker 4 (01:38:06):
They gave out over ten thousand Bibles and there were
many baptisms. Now, whether you were a person of faith
or not, there's something interesting happening here and Let's think
about it for a moment, because I raised two gen zers.

Speaker 2 (01:38:22):
What did they go through recently COVID shutdown.

Speaker 4 (01:38:26):
Our son lost at least a year and a half,
if not two years of his high school football experience,
being around friends, very social young man. By the time
that he went back, he felt a little overwhelmed being
back around that many people. But that happened to many students,
so they went through COVID. What are they hearing constantly

(01:38:46):
apocalyptic warnings that the Earth is going to end in
two years, four years? It keeps getting pushed back because
the polar ice cap is actually expanding. You don't hear
about that. It's not melting, it is expanding. That polar
bear population is increasing. But nonetheless, that is what they
are hearing all the time, and not just them. It's
so prevalent in our culture, this apocalyptic idea movies. You know,

(01:39:09):
I remember the first apocalyptic movie that I saw, and
I didn't see the original showing, so I'm not that old.
What was the Omega Code? I think not in the
Omega Code is something like something of that sort. It
was a Charlton Teston movie about the first disease that
wiped everybody out, and you go on from there and
there and there, and it's a constant fodder and diet,

(01:39:30):
this histrionic end times apocalyptic wording that is going on,
and this young generation has dealt with it. They've also
seen promises for more progressive policies failing increased crime, you know,
economic issues, all sorts of things happening, and they are

(01:39:50):
finally reaching out and realizing that there's something beyond that.
I think that's what is happening with this revival, and
it's a very encouraging thing.

Speaker 7 (01:39:59):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:39:59):
I was talking about the friend about it, and they're like, well,
they didn't have it nearly as badly as the greatest
generation in World War Two, that is true, or during
the sixties when there was a constant threat of nuclear war.
But let's think about this one difference. What did we
do with kids when there was a threat of nuclear
war when we were at a stalemate with the Soviet Union,

(01:40:21):
another nuclear power. We all can think about the drills
of diving under your desk and how that wouldn't do
anything to actually protect you.

Speaker 2 (01:40:31):
No, it wouldn't have. But why would you tell a
six year old child that at.

Speaker 4 (01:40:37):
Any moment their lives may end. That's a huge burden
to put on a child. They were given hope that
if the worst happened, the rumblings they would hear of
adults talking around them that they could dive under their
desk wasn't it wasn't to do anything other than to
allow them to continue to be children.

Speaker 2 (01:40:55):
We've got to get back.

Speaker 4 (01:40:56):
To that place in our culture, back to when we're
not telling children to drop. Full circle, back to thirteen twelve.
You need to decide what gender.

Speaker 2 (01:41:06):
You are in fourth, fifth or sixth grade.

Speaker 4 (01:41:10):
Going back to the interview with Dan Snoberger about the
books that are in the library at Elizabeth Schuldtres because
some of them give step by step directions on how
to consume hardcore drugs or commit suicide.

Speaker 2 (01:41:24):
I don't know about you, but I'm encouraged by.

Speaker 4 (01:41:27):
Gen Z being a generation that is actually saying, you
know what enough already. I want to get back to faith,
to hope, to loving my neighbor, to being able to
realize that there are things beyond what we're being told
twenty four to.

Speaker 2 (01:41:45):
Seven that is negative, that is apocalyptic.

Speaker 7 (01:41:50):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:41:51):
I talked about this with Ryan Schuling every Friday on
a sister station and we talk about the intersection.

Speaker 2 (01:41:56):
Of politics and culture, and I want to leave you
with this.

Speaker 4 (01:42:00):
We're winding down into our very happy Friday. There is
an animated movie called Rise of the Guardians. I don't
recommend read the book. The book gets a little weird,
but the movie is really quite wonderful as an allegory.
It talks about it's animated, it talks about all the
mythical figures that kids grow up with, you know, the

(01:42:21):
tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny of Sandman, and
each one of them is a guardian of a precious
aspect of childhood. Sandman dreams tooth Fairy memories, Santa Claus,
wonder Jack, Frost Fun and Easter Bunny Hope.

Speaker 2 (01:42:40):
And then Pitch, who represents.

Speaker 4 (01:42:42):
The Boogeyman, comes in and begins to cause nightmares for children,
stamping out the light of each precious child. I feel
like this a little bit like today we are filling
their heads with nightmares. It's a time for every single
one of us to be one of the Guardians. Time
to Rise of the Guardians. That's the day and age
we're in where we can begin to pull back all

(01:43:03):
of these things and let kids just be kids, not
overburden them with things that are far beyond their ability.

Speaker 2 (01:43:11):
To fathom or process.

Speaker 4 (01:43:13):
And yes, I do believe the primary guardians of those
precious children are their parents. That's why I'm for parental rights.
That's why I'm encouraged to see this renewal of hope
and faith and revival that's happening around our country amongst
young people. Let's join them. I wish you a hope
filled weekend. I hope that you are encouraged and you

(01:43:34):
encourage someone else. And most of all, I thank you
for listening today. God bless you have a wonderful weekend.
I'm Deborah Flora, sitting in for Mandy Connell