May 14, 2025 • 21 mins
WE SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO THE INDIA-PAKISTAN FLARE UP And I've got Cliff May from the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies on at 1pm to talk about this column that not only gives some needed history and context but clearly lays out which side we should likely align with.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Time to welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Welcome, Welcome one of my favorite guests because he's a
super smarty pants about.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
All things all over the world.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
He is with the Foundation for the Defensive Democracies and
a columnist to boot.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
He is Clifford May High. Cliff, How you doing.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I'm good, Mandy, how are you.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I'm doing great. We got a lot we got to
talk about.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
We're going to start with India and Pakistan, but we
got to talk about Trump's Mid East wing.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
We got to talk about a lot of stuff.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Cliff, Wow, Okay, we'll try to do our best to.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Be so think.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
So let's talk.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Because I said earlier, I said, I've been following the
Pakistan India conflict kind of out of the corner of
my eye, right, not really paying that much attention, but
paying attention because you have two nuclear powers that have
been at war for how how long have they been
warring over the Kashmir.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
District since the partition of India into two states, one
Hindu majority one Muslim majority. Pakistan was a brand new
state after nineteen forty seven, so.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
A while now they have been at war over this
piece of real estate in the middle and because their
nuclear powers when things flare up, We got to pay attention.
And I loved your column today. Is this call them
in Today's Washington Times or yesterday's.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Great edition the Washington Times today, and it's still and
it's online as well under Washington Times dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
You did a nice job of sort of laying out
the background, and if you could do that here and
kind of bring people up to speed on how we
got first of all, how India and Pakistan were divided,
how they've been fighting over the Kashmir region, and what
happened to kind of flare things up.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Now, Okay, let me let me try to do that
as succinctly as I can. Let me just make this
point a lot where the media here's where the media
coverage has been right and wrong. Like the mainstream media.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Has reported that Indian backstenter quarreling over the Kashmir and
that's a territory in the northernmost region of the Indian subcontinent.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
So far, so good. They're right about that.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
But they infer from that, or they tend to because
they're fighting over a territory. This is a territorial dispute.
That's misleading. They also imply a lot of them BBC,
for example, they imply a.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Morally equivalence between India and Pakistan. Now that's dead wrong.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
This particular flare up conflagration called which you will almost
a full scale war, not quite. And Trump and Vance
and Marco Lubeg.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
They put a halt to it, a ceasefire, not peace,
a ceasefire.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
This flared up in April twenty second when you had
a group probably five Islamis terraces coming in from Pakistan.
Kashmir will get to the cement is divided along a
line of control going back to the war in nineteen
forty seven forty eight over this territory. So they come
across into the part of Kashmir that the Indians administer
(02:54):
claim as their own citizens. They then try to begin
to identify the people they meet.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
A lot of them are tourists.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Kashmir is a beautiful place, and tourists from indiacome newlywed
to come on their honeymoon. All that they identify.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Them, are you Muslim or are you Hindu?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
And if they figure they're Hindu, and I'll tell you
in a second how they figure that out, then they
kill them, including killing men in front of their new brides.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Right there. They kill them.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
How do they know, Well, they may ask them recite
the follow you know, some verses from the Quran. If
they can't do it, you're a Hindu. The other way
they may do it is say, and they didn't see
this report in a lot of places, but I'm telling
you it's true, pull down your pants because Hindus are
not circumcised and Muslims are. And so if you're not circumcised,
we kill you. So that's what's going on. Okay, that's
(03:46):
what they did. Now the final death.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
By the way, the.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Final there was a Christian and a local Muslim who
attempted to protect some of these Indian civilians. We're talking
about civilians who are murdered. Final death toll is twenty six.
Now what happens. The Indians, in response, conducted precision air
and missile strikes against I believe it was nine terrorists
(04:11):
infrastructure sites in Pakistan and the Pakistani administered half of
cashmir CAD. Pakistan to those strikes are an active war.
Now you have after that cross border artillery and drone exchanges.
Pakistan claims that it down several Indian fighter jets. Not
quite clear that you, I think it's probably true.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
At least two.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
India then reduced the flow of water going to Pakistan.
There's a treaty about water saying, you know, you know,
you get there. No more water coming, not for drinking,
not for agriculture, You're not getting anymore. And again escalation
became possible. And that's when Marco Rubio, advance on orders
from Trump, began making a million phone calls and they
(04:56):
managed to get a cessation of hostilities.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
The real roots of.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
This conflict go back to after World War II, when
the sun was setting on the British Empire. Britain was
pulling out of India. Britain was pulling out of Palestine
at the same around the same time when the British
was pulling out of India, the leader of the Muslims
there a guy the name of Muhammad Ali Jinnah who
(05:22):
is head of something called the All India Muslim League.
He says, well, we Muslims in this country. We can't
live in a Hindu dominated, Hindu majority. We want our
own country. So the next thing that happens is there's
an Indian Independence Act with the partition again like the
UN did to do a partition of Palestine.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
They did a partition, and.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
Then you had millions, millions of Hindus moving out of
the two major Muslim areas that were earmarked to become Pakistan.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
One of the Far East one of the Far West.
You had the.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Muslims of moving out of India to go to the
new country of Pakistan Stan. This was not a peaceful exchange.
It was one of the biggest and bloodiest population transfers
in all of history.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Roughly fifteen million people. If you can imagine that these
new borders.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
About as many as two million were killed in clashes
between Muslims and Hindus and Muslims and Sikhs. Now, it's interesting,
even after that, about twenty five percent of Pakistan's population
was still Hindu and about ten percent of India's population
at that point.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Was still Muslim.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
What's happened over the years since, well, the Muslim population
of India has grown.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
It's now the fourteen.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Percent of India's population Muslim. By contrast, the non Muslim
population of Pakistan less than four percent. And that's because
over the years, Islamis in Pakistan have implemented policies that
caused Hindus and Sikhs and Christians and others, and a
lot of very I would say moderate Muslims to leave
(07:07):
the country, to get out to emigrate. It's much less
diverse country now than it was. By the way I
just mentioned, I talked to you about Muhammed Ali Jina.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
He was greatish.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Educated, very well dressed, favored pluralism, tolerance. But he died
in forty eight and eight years later Pakistan declared itself
in Islamic Republic and it's been and that's the way
it's gone since then. So I'll stop there, permituted. But
there's a lot of things we can talk about.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
I wouldn't ask militarily because obviously India is far more
populated and more developed. I mean, India has got a
lot more going on for it than Pakistan does.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Militarily, how do they stack up?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
And who is Pakistan as an Islamist nation allied with
that could possibly provide them weapons for a war with India.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Okay, so militarily India is stronger than no question. But
having nuclear way weapons a nuclear weapons? Nuclear weapons are
the great.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Equalizer, aren't they.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
You know, that's one of the reasons Iran and the
fun of Republic of Iran wants nuclear weapons because that
means they can wipe out a whole city with one
bomb if it gets through. Both countries do have nuclear weapons,
but if they were not for the nuclear weapons, no
question that India is.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
The bigger and stronger country.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Look, Pakistan is very close to China, and India has
been close to Russia.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Still is, though closer and closer to the US.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
It's relations, it's close relations with Russia are somewhat I
would say, of an impediment to its evolving relations with.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
The US, but not entirely.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Don't forget this is the most populous democracy on the planet.
But you know they were if you go back years,
they were part of the non Aligned movement, which wasn't
really not aligned. It was closer to the Soviet Union.
They have their weaponry, they have a lot of Russian weaponry,
uh in their arsenal, and they're still getting spare parts.
They're getting closer to the US but not but again
(09:06):
they still there and they still have this and they're
in things like bricks if you know what that is.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, yeah, you know, an.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Organization trade agreement, trade agreement. But they're all kind of
anti American, and you know, includes Russia, includes China, includes Iran.
They're all kind of anti American. What Indian to tell
you is, look, we're your friends within bricks. Okay, it's
good to have us there. We keep an eye on things,
We tell you what's going on. We keep it from
going off the deep end.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
So it's not such a problem.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
But anyhow, but do you think do you think that
India being cozy in bricks and being cozy with Russia.
I don't think that dissuades Donald Trump.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I think and I want to.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Shift gears just a little bit here because it's sort
of connected and yet not. He's in the Middle East
right now, He's stops in Saudi Arabia, he has.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
He's going to UAE, He's going to Cutter. Yeah, these
people are people, especially Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
We know nineteen hijackers came from Saudi Arabian flew planes
into our buildings. We know that Cutter has funded terror
against Americans over and over. But we also realize that
in the Middle East, the enemy of my enemy is
my friend, and Saudi Arabia certainly needs our help with Iran.
And I think Donald Trump used Cutter as an opportunity
to insert or rather.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Maybe put some space between.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Cutter and Iran and a little less space between the
US and Cutter if they give Cutter legitimacy.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
The reason I talk about that is.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Because is it the same couldn't the same thing exist
with India in Donald Trump's size?
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yeah, I don't entirely agree with your analysis there, and
I'll tell you why in a second. But we are
getting closer to India. Mody has had good relations with Trump.
There's a lot of good reasons for us to be
for India to become our ally and to pull them away.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
And I think that is pop possible.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
From Russia, especially at a time when Russia has a
no limits partnership with communists China, and communist China is
an enemy of India. They have also fought that border
disputs that China and India are are not friends. What
role China may have had in terms of repelling Pakistan.
(11:22):
This is a good time maybe for some terrorists to
come in and knew this for various reasons.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Who knows.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
I know there are theories and rumors out there about that.
What I would tell you about Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia
was very bad after the.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Nineteen seventy nine revolution in Iran.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Why because the Revolution of Iran wszness Islamic Revolution was
the first nation state committed to jihad against the West,
and they felt, we have to show that we're committed
to Jihat two. And so they began to finance madrasas
in Pakistan and do I do a lot of bad things.
Eventually Al Kada came back and bit them. I am
(12:04):
convinced that the Saudis at this point wants stability in
the region. They want to develop their country in a
very different way. Certainly, I'm talking about the Crown Prince
effects to the king of fifty years from now, and
he wants to transform Saudi Arabia that is producing.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Much more than just oil and gas. Right.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
He wants a country that is from the forefront, intellectually, academically,
indust all kinds of ways.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Can't have that.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
And he knows that the Islamic Republic of Iran is
an enemy. Qatar is a whole different kettle of fish.
There's a piece out today in the Free Press by
journalist named Jay Solomon recommend you Katar plays both ends
against the Middle arm waitlist.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I got to tell you, I, for the last forty
eight hours have gone down this rabbit hole right about
Kuttor and I. But here's here's my problem, and we're
going to get into this because the Free Press article
is a perfect jumping off point and it's on today's blog.
My issue is that there are a lot of very
important people in the United States of America who have
been on the payroll of Cutter. They've spent three hundred
(13:09):
billion dollars buying good pr in the United States of America.
Now I can't figure out where I'm going to get
good intel. But at the same time, they've also, over
the last ten years especially passed some reforms internally in
Cutter that are encouraging that indicate to me that they
do want to join the modern world and treat people
(13:30):
with a little modicum of respect, at least on the
on the letter of the law. So you say they're
playing both sides against the middle to what advantage. Tell me,
tell me what cutters long game is in your view.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Cutter, I'm afraidy to tell you, is a Muslim brotherhood state. Okay, Cutter,
they they dressed you know better, but they support how must.
They have supported al Qaeda, they have been cozy with
Iran whenever necessary, but they also buy influence. Their influence
effort is in the US is unbelievable. There's a reason
(14:08):
more than one, but there are among the main reasons
why almost every Middle East studies a department at every
major university in America is is pro Islamist at this
point and viciously anti Israelian and istic. It goes back
to the CUT are buying up these departments. Al Jazeera
is very anti American. That's an Arabic news service owned
(14:32):
and operated by CUT. I understand you know how many
you know how many country citizens there are?
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Is there like three hundred thousand.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
They're not very big, like three hundred thousand. There's about
two million people in the peninsula.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
They're all servants. They'll never get.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Citizenship, they can't. They're there just they're there serve. And
yet it has something like twelve percent of the energy
resources in the world. They are so rich, they have
they don't know what they don't. Money means nothing to them.
And Biden made them a your non NATO ally and
they said, and they said, and the fact, oh it's
great that we have Hamas officials here as billionaires, either
(15:09):
from donor money the AID money getting skimmed, or maybe
directly from the Qataris, because then we can negotiate them.
Think how well they right away after nine ten seven.
First of all, they shouldn't have been at ten to seven,
because the Qataris should have known what was going on,
since they had high level officials of Hamas in their hotels,
very rich.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Guys, billionaires.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
They should They should have said, you're you're not doing
something like this, because that's that's not good. Our American
out after it happened. It should have been at the
American president at that point it was says, all right,
this is what we pay you, this is this is
who you are. We said, you're a non NATO ally.
At least get every American out, and I mean today.
And here's how you do it. You tell the katar
(15:51):
You tell the Hamas officials who are in your hotels
that they either make this call, make this order that
the hostages leave, or they leave the hotels and they
leave the hotels and handcuffs and they go either into
one of our prisons or get extradited to the United States.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
None of that happened. Now we finally got.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
The lab the last living American out. Okay, that's great,
that's really good. But that's look but really, what has
cuts are done. They have campuses that they pay for
for many universities, and again they're indoctrinating, indoctrinating, indoctrinating. They
have law firms, they have pr firms. They there's a
(16:29):
big counter gate in Europe where they bribed government's officials.
It's again, I think Jay Solomon is spot on in
his column today about the unbelievable historic influence operation that
culture has. And again, their aims are Muslim brotherhood aims,
(16:51):
and that's frightening.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
And I just want to read some of the column
that he's talking about in the Free Press today, and
the headline of the column is how cut Or bought America?
And I just want to read some of the connections
in the Trump administration with Cutter. The airplane deal was
signed off by Attorney General Pam Bondy. She used to
work at a Washington, DC lobbying firm that received one
hundred and fifteen thousand dollars a month from Cutter to
(17:13):
fight human trafficking. She's not the only one President Trump's
chief of staff, Susie Wilds led lobbying firm Mercury Public
Affairs when it represented Cutter's embassy in Washington. FBI director
Cash Bettel worked as a consultant for Cutter, though he
didn't register as a foreign agent. Then there is Steve Witkoff,
President Trump's longtime friend and senior advisor, who's accompanying him
(17:36):
on the trip this week. For months now, he has
served as Trump's Special Envoy to the Middle East, and
he happens to be a beneficiary of Cutter's largesse. In
twenty twenty three, Cutter's sovereign Wealth fund bought out his
faltering investment in New York's Park Lane Hotel for six
hundred and twenty three million dollars. The Trump organization is
putting a luxury golf resort near Doha, and next week
(17:58):
Donald Trump Junior will speak at the invitation only Cutter
Economic Forum in a session entitled Investing in America. I mean,
is this were the Biden administration, Republicans would be losing
their minds.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Well, that's right, there were, But again, the Biden administration
had no didn't say hey, we got a problem here
on the contract two things Biden did when he got
into office is one, he designated Kuttar as a major
non NATO ally. That is huge, and that was anybody
you just on that list to say, wait a minute,
this is an American ally.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I want my help.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
That on my counsel, my advice. Why wouldn't I give
it to a major ally? How is that a problem?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
You know?
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Biden also said the who thies, we're not we're taking
them off the terrorists list. I don't think they're terrorists
after all. And that was a big gift to Iran.
Try to get them back into you know that the
Obama's Iran deal. But you know, there's no question in
my mind that when Katar does these things, they want
(19:03):
something in return. They think they're going to get something
in return. And I can see how that again, I
can understand how people say all they're doing is they're
paying me for my advice. I'm very smart, I know
how government works. Why why should there be a problem.
They're not an adversary. But this is, this is this
is a very strategic attempt at what is sometimes called
(19:24):
state capture. Yeah, you just you know, you just buy
every every pr front and they and I've met with
Katari diplomats. They're very slick, they're very smart. They say, hey,
you know, yes we have hamas, but you know, the
Americans told.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Us they wanted us to do that.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
They need somebody, you know, to act as a mediator.
It's a way set up a channel of communication. And
we're doing our best, honestly.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
We are what you know, really, what do you want
us to do?
Speaker 4 (19:53):
But I think it's I think it's it's it's very shrewd,
it's very clever. Uh, they've all you know, they have done.
They know they've bribed to get sports events in Qatar
and huge bribes. We know that the people who work
on from abroad or.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Off and very badly mistreated.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Al Jazeera doesn't report on that. Again, Al Jazeera has
been bad from the beginning. But plenty of plenty of
American journalists went to work.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
For Al Jazeera.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Maybe maybe you remember Dave Marrish did years ago, a
very well known New York journalist, and then eventually he
quit and he said no, I kind of I thought
it was a good gig, and then I kind of
understood who they were and.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
What they were really doing.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
There you go, journalists from Ala Rabilla, who I remember
talking to one and saying, who said he used to
work for Al Jazeera, And I said, what's the difference.
He said, well, Al Rabier Arabia, I can be reasonably
free journalists, not entirely, but reasonably Al Jazeera no, no way,
And Al Jazeera has had influence on the BBC invite. Yeah,
(21:00):
it's I mean, we've got to be able to see
what's under our nose here.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Even but again I give them credit.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
They are very very clever about what they're doing, and
they have and money is no object because when you
got that kind of hundreds of billions of dollars in
just three hundred and fifty thousand citizens, Yeah, it on,
you can do what.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
You want to do, Cliff Bay.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
The Saudis, the Saudis are. The Saudis are really down
on Katari's and the Saudis have have criminalized the Muslim
brotherhood as have the Amuradis. Right, they will tell you
the Qataris are the Muslim brotherhood.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Oh Cliff May, you didn't make me feel better at all.
I mean, come on, man, come on, breed Cliffs Colin.
It is an Indian Pakistan. I put a linked on
the blog today, as well as the story we were
just talking about from the Free Press.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Cliff that you already talk to you. We'll talk again soon.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Thanks. May all right, I have a good one
Time to welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Welcome, Welcome one of my favorite guests because he's a
super smarty pants about.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
All things all over the world.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
He is with the Foundation for the Defensive Democracies and
a columnist to boot.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
He is Clifford May High. Cliff, How you doing.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I'm good, Mandy, how are you.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I'm doing great. We got a lot we got to
talk about.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
We're going to start with India and Pakistan, but we
got to talk about Trump's Mid East wing.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
We got to talk about a lot of stuff.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Cliff, Wow, Okay, we'll try to do our best to.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Be so think.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
So let's talk.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Because I said earlier, I said, I've been following the
Pakistan India conflict kind of out of the corner of
my eye, right, not really paying that much attention, but
paying attention because you have two nuclear powers that have
been at war for how how long have they been
warring over the Kashmir.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
District since the partition of India into two states, one
Hindu majority one Muslim majority. Pakistan was a brand new
state after nineteen forty seven, so.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
A while now they have been at war over this
piece of real estate in the middle and because their
nuclear powers when things flare up, We got to pay attention.
And I loved your column today. Is this call them
in Today's Washington Times or yesterday's.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Great edition the Washington Times today, and it's still and
it's online as well under Washington Times dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
You did a nice job of sort of laying out
the background, and if you could do that here and
kind of bring people up to speed on how we
got first of all, how India and Pakistan were divided,
how they've been fighting over the Kashmir region, and what
happened to kind of flare things up.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Now, Okay, let me let me try to do that
as succinctly as I can. Let me just make this
point a lot where the media here's where the media
coverage has been right and wrong. Like the mainstream media.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Has reported that Indian backstenter quarreling over the Kashmir and
that's a territory in the northernmost region of the Indian subcontinent.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
So far, so good. They're right about that.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
But they infer from that, or they tend to because
they're fighting over a territory. This is a territorial dispute.
That's misleading. They also imply a lot of them BBC,
for example, they imply a.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Morally equivalence between India and Pakistan. Now that's dead wrong.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
This particular flare up conflagration called which you will almost
a full scale war, not quite. And Trump and Vance
and Marco Lubeg.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
They put a halt to it, a ceasefire, not peace,
a ceasefire.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
This flared up in April twenty second when you had
a group probably five Islamis terraces coming in from Pakistan.
Kashmir will get to the cement is divided along a
line of control going back to the war in nineteen
forty seven forty eight over this territory. So they come
across into the part of Kashmir that the Indians administer
(02:54):
claim as their own citizens. They then try to begin
to identify the people they meet.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
A lot of them are tourists.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Kashmir is a beautiful place, and tourists from indiacome newlywed
to come on their honeymoon. All that they identify.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Them, are you Muslim or are you Hindu?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
And if they figure they're Hindu, and I'll tell you
in a second how they figure that out, then they
kill them, including killing men in front of their new brides.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Right there. They kill them.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
How do they know, Well, they may ask them recite
the follow you know, some verses from the Quran. If
they can't do it, you're a Hindu. The other way
they may do it is say, and they didn't see
this report in a lot of places, but I'm telling
you it's true, pull down your pants because Hindus are
not circumcised and Muslims are. And so if you're not circumcised,
we kill you. So that's what's going on. Okay, that's
(03:46):
what they did. Now the final death.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
By the way, the.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Final there was a Christian and a local Muslim who
attempted to protect some of these Indian civilians. We're talking
about civilians who are murdered. Final death toll is twenty six.
Now what happens. The Indians, in response, conducted precision air
and missile strikes against I believe it was nine terrorists
(04:11):
infrastructure sites in Pakistan and the Pakistani administered half of
cashmir CAD. Pakistan to those strikes are an active war.
Now you have after that cross border artillery and drone exchanges.
Pakistan claims that it down several Indian fighter jets. Not
quite clear that you, I think it's probably true.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
At least two.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
India then reduced the flow of water going to Pakistan.
There's a treaty about water saying, you know, you know,
you get there. No more water coming, not for drinking,
not for agriculture, You're not getting anymore. And again escalation
became possible. And that's when Marco Rubio, advance on orders
from Trump, began making a million phone calls and they
(04:56):
managed to get a cessation of hostilities.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
The real roots of.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
This conflict go back to after World War II, when
the sun was setting on the British Empire. Britain was
pulling out of India. Britain was pulling out of Palestine
at the same around the same time when the British
was pulling out of India, the leader of the Muslims
there a guy the name of Muhammad Ali Jinnah who
(05:22):
is head of something called the All India Muslim League.
He says, well, we Muslims in this country. We can't
live in a Hindu dominated, Hindu majority. We want our
own country. So the next thing that happens is there's
an Indian Independence Act with the partition again like the
UN did to do a partition of Palestine.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
They did a partition, and.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
Then you had millions, millions of Hindus moving out of
the two major Muslim areas that were earmarked to become Pakistan.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
One of the Far East one of the Far West.
You had the.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Muslims of moving out of India to go to the
new country of Pakistan Stan. This was not a peaceful exchange.
It was one of the biggest and bloodiest population transfers
in all of history.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Roughly fifteen million people. If you can imagine that these
new borders.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
About as many as two million were killed in clashes
between Muslims and Hindus and Muslims and Sikhs. Now, it's interesting,
even after that, about twenty five percent of Pakistan's population
was still Hindu and about ten percent of India's population
at that point.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Was still Muslim.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
What's happened over the years since, well, the Muslim population
of India has grown.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
It's now the fourteen.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Percent of India's population Muslim. By contrast, the non Muslim
population of Pakistan less than four percent. And that's because
over the years, Islamis in Pakistan have implemented policies that
caused Hindus and Sikhs and Christians and others, and a
lot of very I would say moderate Muslims to leave
(07:07):
the country, to get out to emigrate. It's much less
diverse country now than it was. By the way I
just mentioned, I talked to you about Muhammed Ali Jina.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
He was greatish.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Educated, very well dressed, favored pluralism, tolerance. But he died
in forty eight and eight years later Pakistan declared itself
in Islamic Republic and it's been and that's the way
it's gone since then. So I'll stop there, permituted. But
there's a lot of things we can talk about.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
I wouldn't ask militarily because obviously India is far more
populated and more developed. I mean, India has got a
lot more going on for it than Pakistan does.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Militarily, how do they stack up?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
And who is Pakistan as an Islamist nation allied with
that could possibly provide them weapons for a war with India.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Okay, so militarily India is stronger than no question. But
having nuclear way weapons a nuclear weapons? Nuclear weapons are
the great.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Equalizer, aren't they.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
You know, that's one of the reasons Iran and the
fun of Republic of Iran wants nuclear weapons because that
means they can wipe out a whole city with one
bomb if it gets through. Both countries do have nuclear weapons,
but if they were not for the nuclear weapons, no
question that India is.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
The bigger and stronger country.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Look, Pakistan is very close to China, and India has
been close to Russia.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Still is, though closer and closer to the US.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
It's relations, it's close relations with Russia are somewhat I
would say, of an impediment to its evolving relations with.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
The US, but not entirely.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Don't forget this is the most populous democracy on the planet.
But you know they were if you go back years,
they were part of the non Aligned movement, which wasn't
really not aligned. It was closer to the Soviet Union.
They have their weaponry, they have a lot of Russian weaponry,
uh in their arsenal, and they're still getting spare parts.
They're getting closer to the US but not but again
(09:06):
they still there and they still have this and they're
in things like bricks if you know what that is.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, yeah, you know, an.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Organization trade agreement, trade agreement. But they're all kind of
anti American, and you know, includes Russia, includes China, includes Iran.
They're all kind of anti American. What Indian to tell
you is, look, we're your friends within bricks. Okay, it's
good to have us there. We keep an eye on things,
We tell you what's going on. We keep it from
going off the deep end.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
So it's not such a problem.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
But anyhow, but do you think do you think that
India being cozy in bricks and being cozy with Russia.
I don't think that dissuades Donald Trump.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I think and I want to.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Shift gears just a little bit here because it's sort
of connected and yet not. He's in the Middle East
right now, He's stops in Saudi Arabia, he has.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
He's going to UAE, He's going to Cutter. Yeah, these
people are people, especially Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
We know nineteen hijackers came from Saudi Arabian flew planes
into our buildings. We know that Cutter has funded terror
against Americans over and over. But we also realize that
in the Middle East, the enemy of my enemy is
my friend, and Saudi Arabia certainly needs our help with Iran.
And I think Donald Trump used Cutter as an opportunity
to insert or rather.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Maybe put some space between.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Cutter and Iran and a little less space between the
US and Cutter if they give Cutter legitimacy.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
The reason I talk about that is.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Because is it the same couldn't the same thing exist
with India in Donald Trump's size?
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yeah, I don't entirely agree with your analysis there, and
I'll tell you why in a second. But we are
getting closer to India. Mody has had good relations with Trump.
There's a lot of good reasons for us to be
for India to become our ally and to pull them away.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
And I think that is pop possible.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
From Russia, especially at a time when Russia has a
no limits partnership with communists China, and communist China is
an enemy of India. They have also fought that border
disputs that China and India are are not friends. What
role China may have had in terms of repelling Pakistan.
(11:22):
This is a good time maybe for some terrorists to
come in and knew this for various reasons.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Who knows.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
I know there are theories and rumors out there about that.
What I would tell you about Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia
was very bad after the.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Nineteen seventy nine revolution in Iran.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Why because the Revolution of Iran wszness Islamic Revolution was
the first nation state committed to jihad against the West,
and they felt, we have to show that we're committed
to Jihat two. And so they began to finance madrasas
in Pakistan and do I do a lot of bad things.
Eventually Al Kada came back and bit them. I am
(12:04):
convinced that the Saudis at this point wants stability in
the region. They want to develop their country in a
very different way. Certainly, I'm talking about the Crown Prince
effects to the king of fifty years from now, and
he wants to transform Saudi Arabia that is producing.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Much more than just oil and gas. Right.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
He wants a country that is from the forefront, intellectually, academically,
indust all kinds of ways.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Can't have that.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
And he knows that the Islamic Republic of Iran is
an enemy. Qatar is a whole different kettle of fish.
There's a piece out today in the Free Press by
journalist named Jay Solomon recommend you Katar plays both ends
against the Middle arm waitlist.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I got to tell you, I, for the last forty
eight hours have gone down this rabbit hole right about
Kuttor and I. But here's here's my problem, and we're
going to get into this because the Free Press article
is a perfect jumping off point and it's on today's blog.
My issue is that there are a lot of very
important people in the United States of America who have
been on the payroll of Cutter. They've spent three hundred
(13:09):
billion dollars buying good pr in the United States of America.
Now I can't figure out where I'm going to get
good intel. But at the same time, they've also, over
the last ten years especially passed some reforms internally in
Cutter that are encouraging that indicate to me that they
do want to join the modern world and treat people
(13:30):
with a little modicum of respect, at least on the
on the letter of the law. So you say they're
playing both sides against the middle to what advantage. Tell me,
tell me what cutters long game is in your view.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Cutter, I'm afraidy to tell you, is a Muslim brotherhood state. Okay, Cutter,
they they dressed you know better, but they support how must.
They have supported al Qaeda, they have been cozy with
Iran whenever necessary, but they also buy influence. Their influence
effort is in the US is unbelievable. There's a reason
(14:08):
more than one, but there are among the main reasons
why almost every Middle East studies a department at every
major university in America is is pro Islamist at this
point and viciously anti Israelian and istic. It goes back
to the CUT are buying up these departments. Al Jazeera
is very anti American. That's an Arabic news service owned
(14:32):
and operated by CUT. I understand you know how many
you know how many country citizens there are?
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Is there like three hundred thousand.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
They're not very big, like three hundred thousand. There's about
two million people in the peninsula.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
They're all servants. They'll never get.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Citizenship, they can't. They're there just they're there serve. And
yet it has something like twelve percent of the energy
resources in the world. They are so rich, they have
they don't know what they don't. Money means nothing to them.
And Biden made them a your non NATO ally and
they said, and they said, and the fact, oh it's
great that we have Hamas officials here as billionaires, either
(15:09):
from donor money the AID money getting skimmed, or maybe
directly from the Qataris, because then we can negotiate them.
Think how well they right away after nine ten seven.
First of all, they shouldn't have been at ten to seven,
because the Qataris should have known what was going on,
since they had high level officials of Hamas in their hotels,
very rich.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Guys, billionaires.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
They should They should have said, you're you're not doing
something like this, because that's that's not good. Our American
out after it happened. It should have been at the
American president at that point it was says, all right,
this is what we pay you, this is this is
who you are. We said, you're a non NATO ally.
At least get every American out, and I mean today.
And here's how you do it. You tell the katar
(15:51):
You tell the Hamas officials who are in your hotels
that they either make this call, make this order that
the hostages leave, or they leave the hotels and they
leave the hotels and handcuffs and they go either into
one of our prisons or get extradited to the United States.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
None of that happened. Now we finally got.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
The lab the last living American out. Okay, that's great,
that's really good. But that's look but really, what has
cuts are done. They have campuses that they pay for
for many universities, and again they're indoctrinating, indoctrinating, indoctrinating. They
have law firms, they have pr firms. They there's a
(16:29):
big counter gate in Europe where they bribed government's officials.
It's again, I think Jay Solomon is spot on in
his column today about the unbelievable historic influence operation that
culture has. And again, their aims are Muslim brotherhood aims,
(16:51):
and that's frightening.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
And I just want to read some of the column
that he's talking about in the Free Press today, and
the headline of the column is how cut Or bought America?
And I just want to read some of the connections
in the Trump administration with Cutter. The airplane deal was
signed off by Attorney General Pam Bondy. She used to
work at a Washington, DC lobbying firm that received one
hundred and fifteen thousand dollars a month from Cutter to
(17:13):
fight human trafficking. She's not the only one President Trump's
chief of staff, Susie Wilds led lobbying firm Mercury Public
Affairs when it represented Cutter's embassy in Washington. FBI director
Cash Bettel worked as a consultant for Cutter, though he
didn't register as a foreign agent. Then there is Steve Witkoff,
President Trump's longtime friend and senior advisor, who's accompanying him
(17:36):
on the trip this week. For months now, he has
served as Trump's Special Envoy to the Middle East, and
he happens to be a beneficiary of Cutter's largesse. In
twenty twenty three, Cutter's sovereign Wealth fund bought out his
faltering investment in New York's Park Lane Hotel for six
hundred and twenty three million dollars. The Trump organization is
putting a luxury golf resort near Doha, and next week
(17:58):
Donald Trump Junior will speak at the invitation only Cutter
Economic Forum in a session entitled Investing in America. I mean,
is this were the Biden administration, Republicans would be losing
their minds.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Well, that's right, there were, But again, the Biden administration
had no didn't say hey, we got a problem here
on the contract two things Biden did when he got
into office is one, he designated Kuttar as a major
non NATO ally. That is huge, and that was anybody
you just on that list to say, wait a minute,
this is an American ally.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I want my help.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
That on my counsel, my advice. Why wouldn't I give
it to a major ally? How is that a problem?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
You know?
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Biden also said the who thies, we're not we're taking
them off the terrorists list. I don't think they're terrorists
after all. And that was a big gift to Iran.
Try to get them back into you know that the
Obama's Iran deal. But you know, there's no question in
my mind that when Katar does these things, they want
(19:03):
something in return. They think they're going to get something
in return. And I can see how that again, I
can understand how people say all they're doing is they're
paying me for my advice. I'm very smart, I know
how government works. Why why should there be a problem.
They're not an adversary. But this is, this is this
is a very strategic attempt at what is sometimes called
(19:24):
state capture. Yeah, you just you know, you just buy
every every pr front and they and I've met with
Katari diplomats. They're very slick, they're very smart. They say, hey,
you know, yes we have hamas, but you know, the
Americans told.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Us they wanted us to do that.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
They need somebody, you know, to act as a mediator.
It's a way set up a channel of communication. And
we're doing our best, honestly.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
We are what you know, really, what do you want
us to do?
Speaker 4 (19:53):
But I think it's I think it's it's it's very shrewd,
it's very clever. Uh, they've all you know, they have done.
They know they've bribed to get sports events in Qatar
and huge bribes. We know that the people who work
on from abroad or.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Off and very badly mistreated.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Al Jazeera doesn't report on that. Again, Al Jazeera has
been bad from the beginning. But plenty of plenty of
American journalists went to work.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
For Al Jazeera.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Maybe maybe you remember Dave Marrish did years ago, a
very well known New York journalist, and then eventually he
quit and he said no, I kind of I thought
it was a good gig, and then I kind of
understood who they were and.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
What they were really doing.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
There you go, journalists from Ala Rabilla, who I remember
talking to one and saying, who said he used to
work for Al Jazeera, And I said, what's the difference.
He said, well, Al Rabier Arabia, I can be reasonably
free journalists, not entirely, but reasonably Al Jazeera no, no way,
And Al Jazeera has had influence on the BBC invite. Yeah,
(21:00):
it's I mean, we've got to be able to see
what's under our nose here.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Even but again I give them credit.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
They are very very clever about what they're doing, and
they have and money is no object because when you
got that kind of hundreds of billions of dollars in
just three hundred and fifty thousand citizens, Yeah, it on,
you can do what.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
You want to do, Cliff Bay.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
The Saudis, the Saudis are. The Saudis are really down
on Katari's and the Saudis have have criminalized the Muslim
brotherhood as have the Amuradis. Right, they will tell you
the Qataris are the Muslim brotherhood.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Oh Cliff May, you didn't make me feel better at all.
I mean, come on, man, come on, breed Cliffs Colin.
It is an Indian Pakistan. I put a linked on
the blog today, as well as the story we were
just talking about from the Free Press.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Cliff that you already talk to you. We'll talk again soon.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Thanks. May all right, I have a good one
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