Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm tired of being the one defending Thomas Massey, and
David Strom did it in today's column, especially about the
so called big beautiful bill, and now David's joining me
to have a chat about it.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Good morning or good afternoon, sir.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Well, hello Mandy. It's always fun to be on with.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
You, and we're happy to have you as always. What
inspired this column about Thomas Massey? Obviously, he's been getting
crapped from Donald Trump, who says he doesn't understand how
government works and he should be replaced, which he won't be.
But you know, nonetheless, is that kind of what got
you going in this direction?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
It is, although.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
I've also occasionally defended the Senator Rand Paul for much
the same reason, because they are often the dissenters in
their caucus and they get absolutely trashed by everyone else
for not being realistic, and they get called rhinos. They
(00:58):
get attack like that would laughable, most ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
The rhino thing is so hysterically laughable to me, because
you've got two guys, I'm a huge fan of them,
both that are actually trying to hold up the ideas
of fiscal conservatism that the Republican Party used to be
built on and what we have now, this, this big,
beautiful bill, is anything but. And Thomas Massey is going
(01:23):
to be a no vote. I mean that's just going
to be. He's not going to vote yes for this.
It's just not going to happen. And that is because
we'll go ahead.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Well, two things can be true at the same time.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
One is that the best option for Republicans right now
is to vote for this bill, and that this bill
is horrible.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
It should never have been brought up.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
And if everyone in Congress, or every Republican in Congress
were like Thomas Massey, this country would be far better off.
If I were in Congress right now, I could probably
get persuaded to vote for this bill, but I would
be wretching. I would probably go into the bathroom and
(02:09):
toss my cookies several times, and only do it because,
you know, the politics of the situation in Washington are
so bad that every alternative is worse.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I mean, that's something right there, David. Because the reality
about this bill is it not only codifies much of
the Green Dream spending from the Biden administration, it uses
the COVID spending as the new baseline.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
So all of that alleged one time spending.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
That drove deficits to two trillion dollars a year is
now part of the regular budget. That in and of
itself should be a non starter. But yet here we
are having a discussion about not only those things, but
including the salt deduction, which allows high earners in high
tax states to shove more of their tax responsibilities onto
(02:58):
other Americans who don't live in high tax states. I mean,
there's so much to hate about this bill. And you know,
there's a knock on Thomas Massey. It's like, Okay, how
effective is he? Well, he's effective enough that the people
in his district in northern Kentucky keep re electing him.
And it's not even close, it's not even remotely close
when it comes to opponents. But the reality is there's
(03:19):
something to that criticism because you know you've mentioned Rand Paul.
His father, Ron Paul was very much the guy screaming
about debt and deficits for years, but he never got
anything done ever, never got anything accomplished. And Ran Paul
I had the opportunity to ask him one time, I said,
how are you different than your father?
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Right?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
What's the difference here?
Speaker 1 (03:41):
And Rand Paul said to me, I watched my father
say the right things and mean the right things and
be very ineffective. And my goal is to say the
right things and do the right things, but also be effective.
And I do think Rand Paul has done a better
job of positioning himself as the small government debt guy
(04:01):
without seeming quite as fringy as his father ended up
seeming right, if you were a Ron Paul supporter, you
were kind of fringy. But I think you can be
a normal person and be a Rand Paul supporter. So
I mean, at what point do we show our gratitude
to Thomas Massey but also go you know, I'm kind
of worried about if your constituents are gonna get tired
of feeling like they're not being represented.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Well, I don't know the answer to that question.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
To be perfectly honest, I will say though, that you
need to have people like me.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
To say that he's not effective is just a reference
to passing legislation and winning every battle. But actually having
him there does move the ball, because you know, they
have to, you know, pay attention to the Freedom Caucus.
(05:01):
And I look at Thomas Massey and I see someone
who's very different than.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Matt Yetz Gates.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Yeah, Matt, you could tell he was motivated by personal animus.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I think he was motivated by He's one of the people.
I call them the Instagram Congress people, right, They're the
ones that are building a brand instead of being statesmen
or states women. And I don't have any I don't
have any use for that. Matt Gates is there, AOC
is there, but now apparently it's worked for her because
she's the leader of the Democratic Party. But I don't
like feeling like people are using that position to further
(05:40):
their own level of fame, and Matt Gates definitely fits
in that category.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Yeah, I don't think Massy is like that at all.
I think that he and some other members of the
Freedom Caucus actually move the ball, not far, but they
move it to the right.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
You know. One of the things.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
That's true of the speaker, whoever that speaker is, is that,
you know, they have to assemble a coalition of everyone
from the farthest right in their caucus to the people
who are the farthest left in their caucus. And one
of the frustrations that we often have is that it
looks like they're always giving in to the farthest left
(06:24):
of their caucus.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
But and that's true, but they have to look.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
At their right flank, and they're able to use the
fact that there are the Thomas Massey's out there to
tell people on the left flank. Look, I mean, just
like I can't let you go, I can't let him
go all the time. And so I would actually push
back on the idea that he's ineffective.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
He doesn't get.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
What he wants and what we but he does prevent
you know, he's kind of like a goalie at times.
He prevents the left from scoring some goals, not enough,
but he does help. And so I'm very glad that
he you know, Massey, Ran Paul and people with whom
(07:21):
I often would not vote, But I'm glad that they're there,
and I'd rather be in their.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Coalition than the coalition on the left.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
The thing about both Thomas Massey and ran Paul that
I like, like this is the number one thing that
I like about both of them, when they vote in
a way that I find confusing that I'm like, what
the heck was that, Like, Thomas Massey just voted against
the take it down at so I said Thomas and text,
I go, okay, I know why you're not voting for
the big beautiful bill. Why did you vote this down?
And he sent me back along text message that said,
(07:54):
you know, this bill is so overly broad that it
is going to sweep up people that it should not
swep up. And pornography has always been legislated by the states.
This has never been a federal issue. And we're creating
a law that is so murky in some areas that
it could end up shutting down certain AI programs before
it even gets started. So he always has really good
(08:16):
freedom based reasons for voting against something, and that's what
it comes down to, you like, And he told me
a long time ago. He goes, I look at a bill,
and I say, does it make me more free or
less free? That's the starting position for him on whether
or not to vote for these things. And it's not
like he wants to be free to put pornography on
the internet, but he wants to make sure that some
American is not going to be caught up doing something.
(08:36):
And you know, because of the way the law is written,
they're going to end up in federal prison for something
that wasn't necessarily.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Intended to happen on that issue.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I'm want to shift gears just a little bit on
this with you, because I know you write about this
stuff all the.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Time at hot air dot com.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
And have you been surprised at all with the speed
with which former deficit hawk Republicans have just been swept
into the big beautiful bill.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Uh surprised? No, very disappointed? Yes, Uh, you know. I
you know, I've watched, say, the transformation of Tom Emmer,
who I actually did research for and wrote speeches for
him when he ran.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
For governor here in Minnesota. Uh. And he was one
of the.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Most conservative legislators that we had. And you know I
watched his evolution and I don't know that in principle,
uh that his principles have changed, but Washington changes people,
and you know, the whole calculous shifts. And so Donald
(09:55):
Trump is there, he can push people around.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Uh That's part of it.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
And then uh, I think some of it is just uh,
you know, Congress all legislatures are kind of like high
school campuses.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Uh. Uh you know, you want to be the cool
with the cool.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
Kids, and uh you wind up uh you know, say,
with you know, if you're in the Emo group, you
conform to the Emo group.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
If you're in the mean girls, you're with the mean girls,
uh and do things that you never would do outside
that group. And I think that's part of it as well.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
And you know, again, one of the great things about
the masses of the world is they don't care about
being the cool kid, correct.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Uh. They keep their eye on the ball.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
And I'll tell you, I mean, uh, I have seen
so many people get dragged into the group thing that
happens not just in Washington, but every state legislature and
to a certain extent, in every institution. Once you get
ten people uh in an institution, uh, you know, a
(11:12):
culture develops. And it's very disappointing because that's how we
have gotten to this place where uh, you know, lots
of us have been screaming about how you know you
this can't go on forever, because what can't go on
forever doesn't uh. And uh usually if if you push
(11:38):
and push and push, you could go a lot farther
than you ever thought, say with spending, but eventually, uh,
you know, you got you got to pay the piper.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
And we're really close to that.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Well, I don't know if you saw this today, that
they just had a bond auction and we're not able
to sell sell all the treasury bonds, the United States
Treasury bonds.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
That is a direct result.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Of these choices, these deficits that were running with no
seriousness about getting rid of the deficits. My frustration with
rank and file Republicans, not the politicians, is that they
all say, we voted for Trump, we voted for Doge,
we voted for all these cuts. They got all excited
when we started hearing about it. There's a really good
chance that the Republican Caucus is going to strip all
(12:27):
of Doge's findings out of this bill.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
There is a genuine chance.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So if you were cheering Doge and now you're saying
we need to pass this bill, you obviously don't know
what you're asking for.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Oh yeah, I mean all the things that we cheered
for in the first several mods are at risk yep.
And I think that's actually one of the reasons why
Elon Musk, I mean, he hasn't attacked Congress or anything
like that, but he said he's not opening his wallet
(13:00):
for the next elections, and he's clearly going to be
pulling back out of politics because you know, he's devoted
the last six eight months towards trying to save the
United States of America. I think he actually sees the peril,
and you know, we really are on the cusp. I
(13:24):
can't tell you whether it's months or years away, but
within my lifetime and probably within the next few years,
if we don't change the path, the United States is
going to go effectively.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Bankrupt and bring the rest of the world down with us.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
In fact, the only reason why we have not hit
that point, well, they're two. One is we've been in
the world's reserve currency and so everyone's economy has been
tied to the dollar. And the other the other reason
is everyone else's finances are even worse than ours.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
You know, if you think, oh, well, you know, maybe
the euro, it's like, no, those countries are total disaster.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Well to your point, David, when when the UK, when Britain,
when the empire really fell for all intents and purposes
in the seventies, they ran out of money, they didn't
have enough money. We bailed them out like we were
the ones that wrote the check. There's no one to
write the check for us. Nobody has thirty six trillion
dollars that they can just float us, right. I mean,
we're perilously close to a disastrous situation. And it used
(14:44):
to I mean, I've been talking about this since I
got my show in two thousand and five, I mean NonStop.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I've been talking about debt and deficit.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
And it used to really upset me because I really
believed that we should all pay attention to this, and
we should all be concerned about it, and we should all,
you know, be demanding real action. But I've realized over
the years that a vast majority of Americans just want
to make sure they still get their stuff. They want
to make sure that whatever they're owed in their mind
from the government still flows their way. They're not willing
to give up any single thing in order to save
(15:13):
the country. So now I just feel like it's inevitable,
and I'll plan the best I can. My daughter wants
to go to school in Europe for college, and I'm like,
go right ahead, because then you'll feel free to move
to another country if it really gets bad. And I
feel terrible saying and thinking that, but I have seen
absolutely nothing from anyone else other than Thomas Massey and
(15:33):
Ran Paul and Elon Musk.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
And Chip Roy.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
That is leading me to believe that we can avert
that disaster. I hate saying that, but now I'm just
in the acceptance phase.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Well, I mean, that's not irrational, and there are things
that individuals can do to buffer themselves, depending upon their
financial situation. And you know, on a practical level, it's
going to happen with the bankruptcy of the United States,
is the value of our currency is just going to
(16:06):
drop through the floor. It's not like they're going to
quit writing checks. I mean, they are a sovereign power.
They do have guns, and if you look at every bill,
it says this is legal tender, you must accept it.
And so they're going to keep writing checks. There's still
(16:26):
going to be dollar bills and one hundred dollars bills
out there.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
They're just going to buy less.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
And less and less over time, and so we're all
going to get much poorer. So, yeah, you'll get your
Social Security it just won't be worth what they say
it's worth.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
You know that three thousand dollars check will buy half
as much, and so you know it's it's frustrating, but
I don't see what's going to change it either.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
I mean, we're going to wind up, you know, with
two trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
And at some point, yeah, people are going to quit
buying US bonds and then what.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
And then we're done.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I mean, then they start printing more currency, which hygh
pranslates our currency. And this is how all the empires
before us have fallen.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I've been watching this.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Series, this Old History Channel series called Barbarians Rising. It's
actually very very interesting because it essentially sort of tells
the fall of the Roman Empire from the other side,
from the Barbarians and the Goths and the and the
Huns kind of perspective, and it's interesting to see the
parallels between ancient Rome and where we are here. And
(17:44):
you just think, well, hopefully we're not going to be
invaded by Huns because they were not nice at all,
and hopefully the Barbarians will be kept at the gate.
But we're doing it all to ourselves because the people
of the United States, as everyone in every democracy before
us is done, have figured out they can vote themselves
the treasury and that's what they're doing.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Well, in fact, you know, The invasion of Rome started
with Rome opening its borders and by the time it
was done, and you look at the battles for the
Roman Empire, it was Huns versus Hunts, or Goths versus Huns.
(18:25):
You know, they were fighting on both sides because the
Romans imported all these foreigners to do the labor. They
were the soldiers, they were the you know, if you
go when you look at what the arguments, then they
mirror very much what the you know, the pro immigration
people are saying now yep, and it really is kind
(18:49):
of shocking. I mean, in fact, the six or seven
years ago I spent and I continue to do this.
I started looking at how did the Roman Empire evolve
and fall? And we're very I think we're in the
late republic stage, Yes we are.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
And you know the thing about.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
The late republic stage is the republic fell, but the
empire didn't correct.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
But all the good fell, all the good things, yeah,
all the good fell, and then the evil rose. I mean,
it really did happen like that. Then it became totalitarian.
Then it became we're going to murder everybody. Then it
became scorched earth. Then it became we're going to rape
and pillage and steal our things. So yes, I believe
we are in the late Republic as well. And why
don't we leave it on that happy note, David, Why
don't we just We'll just leave that until we talk again,
(19:40):
David Strom. You should read his work at hotair dot com.
One of the few subscriptions that I still have that
is not a substack is hot air dot com. I
have the VIP package. They don't pay me to say that.
They should, by the way, it's an outstanding set of platforms.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
But David, we'll talk again soon, my friend.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Thanks Mandy,
I'm tired of being the one defending Thomas Massey, and
David Strom did it in today's column, especially about the
so called big beautiful bill, and now David's joining me
to have a chat about it.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Good morning or good afternoon, sir.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Well, hello Mandy. It's always fun to be on with.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
You, and we're happy to have you as always. What
inspired this column about Thomas Massey? Obviously, he's been getting
crapped from Donald Trump, who says he doesn't understand how
government works and he should be replaced, which he won't be.
But you know, nonetheless, is that kind of what got
you going in this direction?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
It is, although.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
I've also occasionally defended the Senator Rand Paul for much
the same reason, because they are often the dissenters in
their caucus and they get absolutely trashed by everyone else
for not being realistic, and they get called rhinos. They
(00:58):
get attack like that would laughable, most ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
The rhino thing is so hysterically laughable to me, because
you've got two guys, I'm a huge fan of them,
both that are actually trying to hold up the ideas
of fiscal conservatism that the Republican Party used to be
built on and what we have now, this, this big,
beautiful bill, is anything but. And Thomas Massey is going
(01:23):
to be a no vote. I mean that's just going
to be. He's not going to vote yes for this.
It's just not going to happen. And that is because
we'll go ahead.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Well, two things can be true at the same time.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
One is that the best option for Republicans right now
is to vote for this bill, and that this bill
is horrible.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
It should never have been brought up.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
And if everyone in Congress, or every Republican in Congress
were like Thomas Massey, this country would be far better off.
If I were in Congress right now, I could probably
get persuaded to vote for this bill, but I would
be wretching. I would probably go into the bathroom and
(02:09):
toss my cookies several times, and only do it because,
you know, the politics of the situation in Washington are
so bad that every alternative is worse.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I mean, that's something right there, David. Because the reality
about this bill is it not only codifies much of
the Green Dream spending from the Biden administration, it uses
the COVID spending as the new baseline.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
So all of that alleged one time spending.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
That drove deficits to two trillion dollars a year is
now part of the regular budget. That in and of
itself should be a non starter. But yet here we
are having a discussion about not only those things, but
including the salt deduction, which allows high earners in high
tax states to shove more of their tax responsibilities onto
(02:58):
other Americans who don't live in high tax states. I mean,
there's so much to hate about this bill. And you know,
there's a knock on Thomas Massey. It's like, Okay, how
effective is he? Well, he's effective enough that the people
in his district in northern Kentucky keep re electing him.
And it's not even close, it's not even remotely close
when it comes to opponents. But the reality is there's
(03:19):
something to that criticism because you know you've mentioned Rand Paul.
His father, Ron Paul was very much the guy screaming
about debt and deficits for years, but he never got
anything done ever, never got anything accomplished. And Ran Paul
I had the opportunity to ask him one time, I said,
how are you different than your father?
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Right?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
What's the difference here?
Speaker 1 (03:41):
And Rand Paul said to me, I watched my father
say the right things and mean the right things and
be very ineffective. And my goal is to say the
right things and do the right things, but also be effective.
And I do think Rand Paul has done a better
job of positioning himself as the small government debt guy
(04:01):
without seeming quite as fringy as his father ended up
seeming right, if you were a Ron Paul supporter, you
were kind of fringy. But I think you can be
a normal person and be a Rand Paul supporter. So
I mean, at what point do we show our gratitude
to Thomas Massey but also go you know, I'm kind
of worried about if your constituents are gonna get tired
of feeling like they're not being represented.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Well, I don't know the answer to that question.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
To be perfectly honest, I will say though, that you
need to have people like me.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
To say that he's not effective is just a reference
to passing legislation and winning every battle. But actually having
him there does move the ball, because you know, they
have to, you know, pay attention to the Freedom Caucus.
(05:01):
And I look at Thomas Massey and I see someone
who's very different than.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Matt Yetz Gates.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Yeah, Matt, you could tell he was motivated by personal animus.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I think he was motivated by He's one of the people.
I call them the Instagram Congress people, right, They're the
ones that are building a brand instead of being statesmen
or states women. And I don't have any I don't
have any use for that. Matt Gates is there, AOC
is there, but now apparently it's worked for her because
she's the leader of the Democratic Party. But I don't
like feeling like people are using that position to further
(05:40):
their own level of fame, and Matt Gates definitely fits
in that category.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Yeah, I don't think Massy is like that at all.
I think that he and some other members of the
Freedom Caucus actually move the ball, not far, but they
move it to the right.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
You know. One of the things.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
That's true of the speaker, whoever that speaker is, is that,
you know, they have to assemble a coalition of everyone
from the farthest right in their caucus to the people
who are the farthest left in their caucus. And one
of the frustrations that we often have is that it
looks like they're always giving in to the farthest left
(06:24):
of their caucus.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
But and that's true, but they have to look.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
At their right flank, and they're able to use the
fact that there are the Thomas Massey's out there to
tell people on the left flank. Look, I mean, just
like I can't let you go, I can't let him
go all the time. And so I would actually push
back on the idea that he's ineffective.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
He doesn't get.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
What he wants and what we but he does prevent
you know, he's kind of like a goalie at times.
He prevents the left from scoring some goals, not enough,
but he does help. And so I'm very glad that
he you know, Massey, Ran Paul and people with whom
(07:21):
I often would not vote, But I'm glad that they're there,
and I'd rather be in their.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Coalition than the coalition on the left.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
The thing about both Thomas Massey and ran Paul that
I like, like this is the number one thing that
I like about both of them, when they vote in
a way that I find confusing that I'm like, what
the heck was that, Like, Thomas Massey just voted against
the take it down at so I said Thomas and text,
I go, okay, I know why you're not voting for
the big beautiful bill. Why did you vote this down?
And he sent me back along text message that said,
(07:54):
you know, this bill is so overly broad that it
is going to sweep up people that it should not
swep up. And pornography has always been legislated by the states.
This has never been a federal issue. And we're creating
a law that is so murky in some areas that
it could end up shutting down certain AI programs before
it even gets started. So he always has really good
(08:16):
freedom based reasons for voting against something, and that's what
it comes down to, you like, And he told me
a long time ago. He goes, I look at a bill,
and I say, does it make me more free or
less free? That's the starting position for him on whether
or not to vote for these things. And it's not
like he wants to be free to put pornography on
the internet, but he wants to make sure that some
American is not going to be caught up doing something.
(08:36):
And you know, because of the way the law is written,
they're going to end up in federal prison for something
that wasn't necessarily.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Intended to happen on that issue.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I'm want to shift gears just a little bit on
this with you, because I know you write about this
stuff all the.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Time at hot air dot com.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
And have you been surprised at all with the speed
with which former deficit hawk Republicans have just been swept
into the big beautiful bill.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Uh surprised? No, very disappointed? Yes, Uh, you know. I
you know, I've watched, say, the transformation of Tom Emmer,
who I actually did research for and wrote speeches for
him when he ran.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
For governor here in Minnesota. Uh. And he was one
of the.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Most conservative legislators that we had. And you know I
watched his evolution and I don't know that in principle,
uh that his principles have changed, but Washington changes people,
and you know, the whole calculous shifts. And so Donald
(09:55):
Trump is there, he can push people around.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Uh That's part of it.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
And then uh, I think some of it is just uh,
you know, Congress all legislatures are kind of like high
school campuses.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Uh. Uh you know, you want to be the cool
with the cool.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
Kids, and uh you wind up uh you know, say,
with you know, if you're in the Emo group, you
conform to the Emo group.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
If you're in the mean girls, you're with the mean girls,
uh and do things that you never would do outside
that group. And I think that's part of it as well.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
And you know, again, one of the great things about
the masses of the world is they don't care about
being the cool kid, correct.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Uh. They keep their eye on the ball.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
And I'll tell you, I mean, uh, I have seen
so many people get dragged into the group thing that
happens not just in Washington, but every state legislature and
to a certain extent, in every institution. Once you get
ten people uh in an institution, uh, you know, a
(11:12):
culture develops. And it's very disappointing because that's how we
have gotten to this place where uh, you know, lots
of us have been screaming about how you know you
this can't go on forever, because what can't go on
forever doesn't uh. And uh usually if if you push
(11:38):
and push and push, you could go a lot farther
than you ever thought, say with spending, but eventually, uh,
you know, you got you got to pay the piper.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
And we're really close to that.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Well, I don't know if you saw this today, that
they just had a bond auction and we're not able
to sell sell all the treasury bonds, the United States
Treasury bonds.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
That is a direct result.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Of these choices, these deficits that were running with no
seriousness about getting rid of the deficits. My frustration with
rank and file Republicans, not the politicians, is that they
all say, we voted for Trump, we voted for Doge,
we voted for all these cuts. They got all excited
when we started hearing about it. There's a really good
chance that the Republican Caucus is going to strip all
(12:27):
of Doge's findings out of this bill.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
There is a genuine chance.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So if you were cheering Doge and now you're saying
we need to pass this bill, you obviously don't know
what you're asking for.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Oh yeah, I mean all the things that we cheered
for in the first several mods are at risk yep.
And I think that's actually one of the reasons why
Elon Musk, I mean, he hasn't attacked Congress or anything
like that, but he said he's not opening his wallet
(13:00):
for the next elections, and he's clearly going to be
pulling back out of politics because you know, he's devoted
the last six eight months towards trying to save the
United States of America. I think he actually sees the peril,
and you know, we really are on the cusp. I
(13:24):
can't tell you whether it's months or years away, but
within my lifetime and probably within the next few years,
if we don't change the path, the United States is
going to go effectively.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Bankrupt and bring the rest of the world down with us.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
In fact, the only reason why we have not hit
that point, well, they're two. One is we've been in
the world's reserve currency and so everyone's economy has been
tied to the dollar. And the other the other reason
is everyone else's finances are even worse than ours.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
You know, if you think, oh, well, you know, maybe
the euro, it's like, no, those countries are total disaster.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Well to your point, David, when when the UK, when Britain,
when the empire really fell for all intents and purposes
in the seventies, they ran out of money, they didn't
have enough money. We bailed them out like we were
the ones that wrote the check. There's no one to
write the check for us. Nobody has thirty six trillion
dollars that they can just float us, right. I mean,
we're perilously close to a disastrous situation. And it used
(14:44):
to I mean, I've been talking about this since I
got my show in two thousand and five, I mean NonStop.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I've been talking about debt and deficit.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
And it used to really upset me because I really
believed that we should all pay attention to this, and
we should all be concerned about it, and we should all,
you know, be demanding real action. But I've realized over
the years that a vast majority of Americans just want
to make sure they still get their stuff. They want
to make sure that whatever they're owed in their mind
from the government still flows their way. They're not willing
to give up any single thing in order to save
(15:13):
the country. So now I just feel like it's inevitable,
and I'll plan the best I can. My daughter wants
to go to school in Europe for college, and I'm like,
go right ahead, because then you'll feel free to move
to another country if it really gets bad. And I
feel terrible saying and thinking that, but I have seen
absolutely nothing from anyone else other than Thomas Massey and
(15:33):
Ran Paul and Elon Musk.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
And Chip Roy.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
That is leading me to believe that we can avert
that disaster. I hate saying that, but now I'm just
in the acceptance phase.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Well, I mean, that's not irrational, and there are things
that individuals can do to buffer themselves, depending upon their
financial situation. And you know, on a practical level, it's
going to happen with the bankruptcy of the United States,
is the value of our currency is just going to
(16:06):
drop through the floor. It's not like they're going to
quit writing checks. I mean, they are a sovereign power.
They do have guns, and if you look at every bill,
it says this is legal tender, you must accept it.
And so they're going to keep writing checks. There's still
(16:26):
going to be dollar bills and one hundred dollars bills
out there.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
They're just going to buy less.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
And less and less over time, and so we're all
going to get much poorer. So, yeah, you'll get your
Social Security it just won't be worth what they say
it's worth.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
You know that three thousand dollars check will buy half
as much, and so you know it's it's frustrating, but
I don't see what's going to change it either.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
I mean, we're going to wind up, you know, with
two trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
And at some point, yeah, people are going to quit
buying US bonds and then what.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
And then we're done.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I mean, then they start printing more currency, which hygh
pranslates our currency. And this is how all the empires
before us have fallen.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I've been watching this.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Series, this Old History Channel series called Barbarians Rising. It's
actually very very interesting because it essentially sort of tells
the fall of the Roman Empire from the other side,
from the Barbarians and the Goths and the and the
Huns kind of perspective, and it's interesting to see the
parallels between ancient Rome and where we are here. And
(17:44):
you just think, well, hopefully we're not going to be
invaded by Huns because they were not nice at all,
and hopefully the Barbarians will be kept at the gate.
But we're doing it all to ourselves because the people
of the United States, as everyone in every democracy before
us is done, have figured out they can vote themselves
the treasury and that's what they're doing.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Well, in fact, you know, The invasion of Rome started
with Rome opening its borders and by the time it
was done, and you look at the battles for the
Roman Empire, it was Huns versus Hunts, or Goths versus Huns.
(18:25):
You know, they were fighting on both sides because the
Romans imported all these foreigners to do the labor. They
were the soldiers, they were the you know, if you
go when you look at what the arguments, then they
mirror very much what the you know, the pro immigration
people are saying now yep, and it really is kind
(18:49):
of shocking. I mean, in fact, the six or seven
years ago I spent and I continue to do this.
I started looking at how did the Roman Empire evolve
and fall? And we're very I think we're in the
late republic stage, Yes we are.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
And you know the thing about.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
The late republic stage is the republic fell, but the
empire didn't correct.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
But all the good fell, all the good things, yeah,
all the good fell, and then the evil rose. I mean,
it really did happen like that. Then it became totalitarian.
Then it became we're going to murder everybody. Then it
became scorched earth. Then it became we're going to rape
and pillage and steal our things. So yes, I believe
we are in the late Republic as well. And why
don't we leave it on that happy note, David, Why
don't we just We'll just leave that until we talk again,
(19:40):
David Strom. You should read his work at hotair dot com.
One of the few subscriptions that I still have that
is not a substack is hot air dot com. I
have the VIP package. They don't pay me to say that.
They should, by the way, it's an outstanding set of platforms.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
But David, we'll talk again soon, my friend.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Thanks Mandy,
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