July 10, 2025 • 33 mins
SENATOR BARB KIRKMEYER KNOWS COLORADO'S BUDGET AND MORE And she joins me today at 1pm for a chat about budget shortfalls and the very possible special session that Governor Polis is going to call soon. We'll get the details from the best person to give them, as she's been on the Appropriations and Joint Budget Committees in the last few years. This should be good.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jo winning me in the studio right now for the
first time. She's never been in our digs before. I'm
kind of excited to have you on the show. State
Senator Barb Kirkmeyer, first of all, welcome in, Thank you,
thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
This is great.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Yeah, you were confused by the deeply blood red lobby
I re media redecorated and what I like to call
a mix of hospital meets whorehouse.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
That's what. Oh god, yeah, that's just me.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I mean that's how I view it.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
First of all, Barb, how.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Long have you been working on budgets in Colorado?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Well, I was a county commissioner, so I had twenty
years as a county commissioner on and off, and then
I also worked for Governor Bill Owens and his cabinet,
and I did the budget portion of it for the
Department of Local Affairs, so pretty much about thirty years.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I have different budgets all the way through.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I'm not sure there's somebody in the legislature who has
more budgetary experience than you do.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Probably not.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I would say no at this point because I've been
on the Joint Budget Committee then for the state which
the Joint Budget Committee We're the people who write the
budget for the state of Colorado. There are six of us,
and I just finished my third year being you know,
third session of being on the Joint Budget Committee.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
What are some of the things that you've seen happen
over the thirty years that you have been paying attention
to and working on budgets in Colorado.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
So I'm amazed, especially at our budget right now in
the state of Colorado. I mean, we had three years
ago we had three point six billion dollars in surplus,
you know, so the Tabor surplus, right, and you know,
the governor was handing out checks putting his name all
over it during election year kind of thing, right, And
now we're to the point of because of all the
tax credits and different legislation that's been passed by my
colleagues on the other side of the aisle, there won't
(01:31):
be a tabor surplus here because of different tax credits
and things of that nature. Granted there are people getting
tax credits, not me, but.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
The variety of people.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, other people, the favored ones yea, as I like
to call them. After the legislative session, we're facing a
special session.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
What is that about?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I think it's going to be about the Democrats are
looking at how to blame Trump for our tax our
tax and spend issues that we have here in this
state and the budget deficit that we have, you know,
So if they can't blame Tabor, they want to try
and blame Trump when they should actually just blame themselves.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So what is the issue with our taxes spend? What
have we done over the last few years? And when
did it really ratchet up in your view, that we
just started spending like drunken monkeys, although I hate to
disparage drunken monkeys.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, those four monkeys, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
So I would say when it was first at least
brought to my attention and going back and researching this
March of twenty twenty one, we knew we were in
what's called a structural deficit. So it's not like we're
just overspending. We have continued to overspend year over year
over year, and it's messing with the structure of our budget.
And so it really happened with all of those dollars
(02:38):
that came in from the federal government during COVID, you know,
the American Rescue planned dollars. I mean we're attacking billions
that came in. Some went directly to the governor and
to his departments, So like the Department of Education, Department
of Human Services, Department of Health Care Policy and Finance,
Department of Health and Public Environment, they all got direct distributions.
There were counties, the five top counties in the state,
(03:01):
you know, most populated counties in the state, they got
a direct distribution.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
So there were moneies that went there.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
And then there were moneies that were appropriated through the
legislative branch, through the Joint Budget Committee and the General Assembly,
and those should have been thought of as one time funds.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
That's what I was going to ask you. So it
sounds like they spent those moneies on recurring expenses and
now that money's gone. Is that kind of the long
and short of it?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
That that's what I say, But my Democrat colleagues on
the Joint Budget Committee say, oh no, no, that's not it.
But I mean you can point to we created new departments,
new offices, the Behavior Health Administration. I mean, they've had
over a billion dollars in funding from you know, we
call them ARPA funds, American Rescue funds.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And I'm like, well, what's our return on investment? Like?
What have we done? You know?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
I mean, I'm not arguing that we don't have a
behavior health you know, crisis at least at one point
in our state.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
But what have we done? Where's our return on investment?
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Like what's the outcomes from all that money that's been spent?
And and keep in mind, we created the Behavior your
Health Administration almost it's like a pseudo department. We couldn't
create another department because we can only have twenty minor constitution,
but we created like another administration that acts. They've got
a cabinet member. I mean, they're they're administrative director.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Okay, if you just hit me with something that.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Is so frustrating. Yes, the Colorado Democrats have shown again
and again and again an absolute disregard for the letter
of the law. And they if they've created another department
without creating a department because they're constitutionally prohibited by doing it.
But it looks like a department and it walks like
(04:36):
a department.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It's a department.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
How what recourse does a person like me have? I mean,
because the Colorado Supreme Court is full of idiots, you
don't have to comment on that, that's my opinion, they're
going to just rubber stamp anything that happens. There's like
it's all out of control, from from stealing our table
refunds to redirect them to favored classes.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
There's so many things like.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
That where they're basically like, oh, we see you law,
you tabor, but we're going to go around you by
calling everything a fee exactly.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
And the only recourse we have as citizens is to
vote them out.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
We've got to.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Change who we're voting for, and we've got to get
rid of this one party control.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
That seriously is that there is It's hard to have a.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Check in balance when the House, the Senate, and the
Governor's office are all controlled by Democrats.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Hopelessly controlled. I mean, I mean people always get mad,
they're like, why didn't a Republican And I'm like, they're
so outnumbered that the fact that any Democrat gives lip
service even to Republican needs is kind of remarkable because.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
They don't have to. It's hard. You know, we're in
the minority.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
So but being on the Joint Budget Committee, it's actually
probably the best place to be if you're going to
be in the minority, because again, six members three or
from the House three or from the Senate. The majority
party gets to pick two, so four Democrats two Republicans,
but can't be a Joint Budget Committee bill unless all
six Joint Budget Committee members agree to it. Okay, right,
They can't have a vote on stuff going on in
(05:59):
the budget, you know, trying to say the budget unless
a member of the minority is there.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
So, you know what, we don't like things.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I mean last year in the twenty fourth session, they
were going down this path where they thought they could
just roll the two Republicans on the committee. At about eleven
o'clock at night, I said I'm done. I'm going home.
And they're like, well, we haven't closed the budget. And
I said, well, i'm done. I'm going home. You've been
disrespectful to me. I'm going home. And Representative Taggard, who's
the other Republican, he's from Grant Junction and he's on
the Joint Budget Committee.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
He got up and we both left. There you go,
and that's the only way you can fly. We'll come
back tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Yeah, let's see how you feel tomorrow, like, you know,
and how are Yeah, I mean, I got to call
at six in.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
The morning from the chair, okay, and making sure you
were coming in like day yeah, Like.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Well, what can we do to get everybody back to
the table. It was like, well, first of all, you
can be respectful, Like we weren't rolling you. I thought
we were all working together. And then all of a sudden,
you're just passing resolution or passing motions and increasing our
budget and not even thinking about things, things that we
thought we'd already voted on, and they're revoting on them
and changing them around.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I said, that's just rude.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
So yeah, you know, here's what I have to have now,
and I had a list.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Oh good, yeah good. I'm proud of you, Barb. That's
a nice Here, let's talk.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
About medicaid for a moment, because this has been the
big boogeyman. This, apparently, based on what I'm seeing from
national Democrats, is going to be the thing that they
think they're finally got the thing, the hammer Trump with
that they've been desperately searching for the thing.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
But the reality is here in Colorado.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And I love doing this on X This is my
favorite thing when I see Democrats talking about the fact
that you know, no I legal immigrant is on Medicaid
and I'm like, oh, contreire, we have an entire department
that has illegal immigrants on Medicaid. What is going to
happen with Medicaid and Colorado? Are they going to roll
it back to the constraints that it was originally intended
to be in elderly people, pregnant women, really poor people.
(07:44):
That's what Medicaid is designed for.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I don't know that they're actually going to roll it back,
and I think it's really kind of im I've been
trying to follow it as best as i can, but
I'm confused as well. Because the eligibility for Medicaid to
be on Medicaid, which is health insurance, the eligibility criteria
are not really changing. The only thing that is changing
is they're adding additional eligibility criteria for those able bodied.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
And I want everybody to think about it.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Able bodied people who can work without dependence.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So adults from nineteen to sixty.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Four years of age that are able to work, able bodied,
have no children, are on Medicaid. And they're saying, look,
you want to be on Medicaid, We're gonna put work
requirements on. You're gonna have to at least work part time.
Eighty hours a month or volunteer or be in school.
That's gonna be the additional criteria. There's been I haven't
(08:40):
seen anything, and i've best you know, folks who implement medicaid,
you know, at the local level, whether it's a health
center or behavior health center or something of that nature,
or county, like, did they change the eligibility requirements because
I'm confused here, And the answer is no other than
putting in a work requirement, which is no different than
what happened during President Clinton, who rechanged how we do
(09:03):
welfare in the United States and created temporary aid to
needy families called TANA for short, but temporary aid was
a deal.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
He put in time clocks.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
There was a two year time clock and then a
five year lifetime clock, right, and work participation rates. You
either had to be in school or you had to
have a job.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
All right, bart I interviewed a woman when I first
got my show, So this is like two thousand and five,
two thousand and six, and I was interviewing her about
something else. She was working with an organization that I
was talking to, and I had been talking before that
about welfare reform just in general, and she came on
the show to talk about this other thing and said,
I was listening to what you said. This was in
southwest Florida. She said, I want to tell you my story.
(09:46):
She said, I grew up. I was a multi generational
welfare family recipient. Her grandmother had been on welfare, her
mother was on welfare. She was on welfare. And when
Bill Clinton passed those requirements, she was part of that
group that said you got to go to work. Well,
she got a job, and that's what happened. She liked working,
she enjoyed it, she.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Was good at it, she felt good about herself.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
And then when she got a promotion, she had to
make the choice of giving up some of her welfare
benefits to move up. And she chose to move up,
and she said it was the greatest thing in my
entire life. And I thought that that was like people
like that. No one talks about that, the success stories,
and in all honesty, I think the vast majority of
the people, and I don't know, do we know the
(10:26):
number of how many people in Colorado don't meet any
of those requirements now, because the notion that everybody's going
to be thrown off Medicaid is only accurate if none
of these people are working, caring for a loved one,
you know, in school or any of that. So I
who's going to actually get kicked off here exactly?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
And so they're just supposing kind of thing. And I
think the other thing is read the fine print. When
we were at the Joint Budget Committee a couple of
weeks ago and the Director of Office and State Planning
Budget for the Governor, Director Farandino, was in, they're talking
about the number of people who won't receive health who
won't receive health care benefits. And at that time, the bill,
(11:05):
the federal bill, had things in there about you know,
undocumented immigrants that you couldn't fund them kind of thing,
and it would things would change, And it wasn't people
getting pushed off Medicaid. It was people who weren't going
to get healthcare because we have Medicaid, which I guess
I would probably argue that people who are not supposed
to be on Medicaid or not on Medicaid. I'm sure
there are some like we had, you know, seven million
(11:27):
dollars worth of people have already been dead for a
while that we're still getting Medicaid benefits. But we have
what we call Medicaid like programs that the state funds
and their state funded programs without any federal dollars.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
But I mean it stands to reason at some point
if we start kicking people off Medicaid because federal reimbursements drop,
I would hope that they would prioritize citizens over non citizens.
That's just, in my mind, the way it should be.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
And that's exactly how Medicaid is. So Medicaid is only
for US citizens. Non citizens are not supposed to be Medicaid,
yeah they are. That would be a problem. So it's
and again, they aren't kicking anyone off the eligibility requirements,
at least as far as I understand it. The eligibility
requirements stay the same, with the exception of what is
(12:13):
called the expansion population that happened during Obamacare, and that.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Part that's what nobody talks about, right.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
That's the able bodied individuals nineteen to sixty four with
no dependents. Right, They're going to have to go work
for eighty hours a month, so part time volunteer are
be in school.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I've got to tell you, I disagree with the expansion
of medicaid for a couple of reasons. One, it stretches
the resources of the program that is designed for elderly people,
for pregnant women, for extremely poor people, and her children.
So we've basically created a situation where wait times have
gone up. There's a perverse incentive to see those healthy
(12:52):
people because they get reimbursed at a higher rate, which
I still don't understand how that's possible. But ultimately a
big problem seems to me that the hotel of the
hospital provider fees have been struck down by the big
beautiful bill. They've been used to pad the bills to
the federal government by states, not just Colorado, but by
(13:13):
other states, to just basically tack on a charge, and
now the federal government says we're not reimbursing them. The
big issue for me seems that we need to worry
about some of our rural health care providers and what
does that look like.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
We need to we need to worry about all of
our Medicaid providers and in fact, for forever, our provider
rate increase, you know, for you know, to pay them
and reimburse them has never never worked with inflation. It's
never increased at the same rate of inflation. So in
the last year.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
And here's the.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Thing that I just find so ironic and hypocritical that
my Democrat colleagues, including the governor of this state, have
been chastising the federal government for cutting Medicaid. You want
to know who cut medicaid, Governor Polus. He came in
in his budget request just even this year, but even
last year, in the previous year. All three years that
I have been on the Joint Budget Committee and seeing
(14:04):
the governor's budget request, he never increases the Medicaid.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Provider rate up to inflation.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Well, and Medicaid reimbursal rates are even lower than Medicare,
which are lower than the regular market.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
And so I mean, my first year on the Joint
Budget Committee, I fought like heck with Senator Zenzinger, who
is a Democrat from Marvada. She's now a county commissioner,
and we got it up to three percent.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Last year I had it up to two and a
half percent.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
So in the twenty four session, had it up to
two and a half percent increase in a time when
inflation was five percent, right, so we're underfunding it, right,
I get it up to two and a half percent.
In the final hours, we had to knock it down
to two percent, and if I didn't have the votes.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
What people need to understand is that makes it less likely,
especially for specialist. And I realized this many many years ago.
I was working with a friend of mine who needed
a pediatric neurologist and she was on METAD. It took
us nine months to even find a practice that was
one hundred and fifty miles away that would take a
new patient.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
That is the kind of stress that we're putting on Medicaid.
The more people that are on it, you have this
dwindling pool of providers because they're underpaid for their services,
and god forbid, you have a serious illness because getting
to see a specialist, getting into see a specialist can
be almost impossible.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
So all of these things.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
You can't look at it as just well, these people
need healthcare coverage, Okay, great, they are probably going to
be well subsidized on the Obamacare market. There are subsidies
still available on the Obamacare market, and perhaps they should
be picking up more of their own more of their
own costs.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Absolutely, but the reality is this, again, democrats in the
state want to keep blaming Trump. They want to blame
the Big Bill for all of our problems. And we've
had a governor that has come in for at least
the last three years. I can probably go back and
research and know that it's been longer than that, but
for at least the last three years has come in
and shortchanged medical.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Providers year after year after year. That creates a problem.
I believe our healthcare.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Infrastructure system in the state we are in crisis mode.
We have twenty five counties, twenty five counties with maternal
health care deserts and it's growing, So no place to
have a baby in twenty five of our rural counties.
And what did the governor do in his budget request
last November cut rural healthcare?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Well, he doesn't care about the rural areas. I mean,
I don't mean to be I don't mean to be
so flippant about that, but deeds, not words, and deeds
show that this governor does not care about rural Coloraden's
He really doesn't. It's lacking. Yeah, exactly right, and it's shameful,
it really is. But they're not going to vote for him,
so he doesn't care. I've got a bunch of questions
when we're Senator Barb Kirkmeyer on the text line, and
(16:44):
I want to ask, we're talking about the special session
to cut spending. Where do you see those cuts coming?
Where are the most obvious places? Because here's what we're
going to hear. We're going to hear we have to
cut education, and we have to cut firefighters and police
and all of the things. You they all have to
go away because God forbid, we cut back on some
of the people we've hired.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
We're going to talk about that.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
But I did get this question that I wanted to
jump into really quickly because I think it's an easy one.
Haven't there been seven thousand or so new state jobs
created since Polos took office with para that creates a
huge long term liability.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Is that accurate?
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yes, for the last seven years, six years. I know
because from twenty five backs, so the last six years,
year over year, we've increased by more than one thousand
employees full time equivalent employees FTEs in state government.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Or we're zeroing in.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
We're getting close to having seventy over seventy thousand.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Employees in state government. Wow.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Now, granted a huge chunk of those are in higher education,
but just even in the executive branch, it's about six
to seven.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Hundred a year. But we have increased year over yearge year.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Administrations have increased, you know, eighty four percent here, thirty
six percent here, you know, and that's adjusted for inflation.
I mean, over the course of the last six years,
they should have been increased by eleven point three percent
eleven point six percent. Don't quote me exactly on that anyone,
but somewhere around eleven point three to six percent somewhere
in that area. But we've had departments, almost every department
(18:16):
and including the judicial branch, and the other elected officials
of their departments have increased by way more than that,
almost all of them.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Thank god.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
The Democrats are focused like a laser on saving us money, Barb,
as they told me last election cycle. Can you imagine
how bad things would be if they hadn't. I've got
a bunch of text messages.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
We're going to talk about this.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
If you have questions about going forward, we'll talk about
where you see the most likely places that we can
shrink the size of government back into some kind of
manageable space. We'll do that next with Senator Barb Kirkmeyer.
Keep it right here on KOA. Barb Kirkmeyer State Senator
Barb Kirkmeyer in the studio with us. Now she's like
she knows about the budget. How much has the budget
grown in the last ten years? Just ballpark me.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Man, Now you stumped me on that question because I
wasn't there ten years ago. And it's hard because when
people talk about the budget, you know, we have a
forty four billion dollar budget, but that's not all general funds.
So general fun is the revenue that comes in from
income tax and sales tax. The state does not collect
property tax, so that's where the revenue comes in. And
then we have federal dollars that come in, and then
(19:21):
we have cash funds, most of which are like fees
that are paid, you know, like when you go to
the motor vehicle office and you pay that.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Fee when you get a tax that they called the fee.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, I'm just gonna pulify.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
But anyways, so our general fund operating budget, which is
when I talk about that, we're like this year going
into this next year seven hundred million. In the whole,
it's about eighteen point five billion, okay, And so I
don't know what it was ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
I'm sorry, I'll find out. I'll let you know.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
No, I'm just kiddous because I know that it's been
pretty steady growth overall, and how much the State of
Colorado spends with all of the federal money and all
of that stuff. So let's talk about you got a
special session coming up, and where are the most likely
areas that we'll need to be cut to make up
what's the difference that we're looking at right now?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Right now, we're at about a seven hundred million.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Dollar deficit, you know, pocket change going.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Into the next budget year, and so some of that
will be we'll deal with that in this current budget year.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
What obviously, we're not going to unwind all of the
new stuff that we created, those new departments that are departments.
So where is this money going to come from?
Speaker 3 (20:22):
So, first of all, I don't think the special session
is going to be about cuts.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
What you think it's going to be about raising taxes? Yes, yes,
well let's talk about that for just a second, because
I just realized, thanks to one of your tweets, that
the State of Colorado preemptively wanted to make sure that
you were not going to get the benefit of a
break on overtime, and now the State of Colorado is
(20:45):
going to include your non taxable overtime that the federal
government isn't going to attack in your overall adjusted gross
income so they can tax it. And what's hilarious about
this is people on the left online are telling me, well,
that's not a taxing increase. Your overtime was tax last year.
It's just going to be tax this year when the
federal government is going to lower your taxes, but the
(21:07):
State of Colorado takes measures to then rap them to add.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
It back on. Correct, that would be a change in
tax policy.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
That is a tax increase, Yes it is. What are
what else are they looking at? Taxing?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I think they want to look at that.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
One of the other things that needs to look at
is some of the tax credits because they have a
trigger that happens in December and we need they need
to be fixed because if they're not fixed, we will
have to basically dip into our general fund operating budget
to pay for the homestead exemption, you know that senior
homestead exemption. We'll have to dip into that to pay
for it in this current budget year, which will cause
(21:42):
us about I think it was a seventy one again
don't quote me places, but around seventy to seventy five
million dollar hit to our budget, adding on and making
part of that seven hundred million dollar deficit that we have.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
So they're talking about perhaps not.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Having perhaps maybe cutting it, cutting it back so that
we don't have to pay general fund.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
So we use for the Homestead Exemption Act, we use
our tabor.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
It's a taber refund mechanism to pay for the Homestead
Exemption Act, you know, for the senior property tax exemptions,
you know, on the military exemptions that we have in there,
we pay for those out of taber surplus.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
And that's allowed.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
And in fact, some of us would argue that it
even kind of states that in the constitution. It's not
real black and white, but we could we could probably
argue that. So in the last year, there's been a
bunch of tax credits created.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
One of them was the earned income tax credit.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
So anyone earning lesson I think it's sixty three thy
six hundred somewhere in there, matches what the federal government
is doing on earning income tax credit.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
They get a tax credit.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
On their state income tax and then there's also I
call it the Family Childcare tax Credit that one as well.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
They're they're huge. One of them is at the family.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
The Childcare tax credit one is about a seven hundred
million dollar tax credit that's occurring. The earned income tax credit.
Again we think of these as these tax credits as
tabor refund mechanisms. But the earned income tax credit one
is around three hundred million dollars or so. So that's
a billion dollar swing. If that goes into play next year,
it will drive our budget deficit even more, like it
(23:15):
could be like another billion.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Dollars if we're short, though, is there are their table refunds,
you know, if we're short.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
No, okay, but so there'll be.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
No tabor refunds, right, and we'll still have to fund
those taxes.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
And we will have to fund the senior property tax exemption.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Okay, right, So are they talking? I mean, would you
think that they would go after either of those things?
Because and some of the people need to understand that
may not understand when we're talking about a tax credit
that is a fixed sum of money, that's not a
tax break, that's not a tax right off, This is
you are going to get x amount of dollars back
in your pocket from the from the government, either of
(23:51):
the day of the federal government.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
And the other thing that happens, especially with the earned
income tax credit, is even if you didn't pay in taxes,
you're still going to get that set amount of money.
And I think when I was reading John Caldera's information
his articles, it's like fifteen thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, it's exactly. So they didn't even pay those.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
So basically we're taking our taper surplus and we are
redistributing to other people people.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Who didn't pay it. Yes, yeah, and that's super frustrating.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well, they may have.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Paid sales tax, so I mean everybody pays taxes.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Everybody pays taxes, not everybody pays income taxes. So I
got a bunch of stuff on the blog. Let's talk
about this, Mandy. Do you mean they're not getting rich
from all the extra taxes they put on gun owners?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
No, short answer, No, Mandy.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Wouldn't Tabor kick in on this If the Democrats want
to try and tax the overtime, wouldn't that have to
be put on the ballot for voters to vote on?
Or am I not understanding tabor does seem like it's
a tax in Chris.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I believe it should have. But here's how they got
around it. They passed the bill.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
In the twenty five sessions, so just this last May
essentially passed the bill that said in the future, should
the federal government exempt overtime taxes, the state will still
add them back in. So they actually didn't change tax
policy with pay legislation, and that's how they got around it.
Because I had a lot of questions myself about that,
So thank you to your person when we're at the
(25:12):
Joint Budget Committee. But now the problem they're going to
have is they set that for out in an out year,
so a year out, so it will mean that for
this first year, because the big bill has passed out
at the federal level, that there will be no taxes
on overtime for about a year, and that will be
about a two hundred and fifty million dollars hit to
(25:33):
the state's revenues and we will add that to the
seven hundred million.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
That's why I think the special session.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Is going to be about increasing your taxes, changing that
effective date so that we catch the overtime taxes. The
taxing on overtime this year, and so I do think
that does need to go to the ballot and that
people need to vote on it because then it will
be a tax policy change.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Well, but then they would not vote on that, so
they would vote no. So that's kind of what we
do here. In the most schizophrenic voter group in the world.
They keep electing the Democrats who keep raising taxes, and
they keep voting against raising taxes, and I don't understand
how they don't see how those things are connected. Somebody
just said this, and this is one of the biggest
criticisms I get, and I'm gonna let you address it.
(26:16):
And it said, she's blaming the Dems. Ask why she
doesn't use the power she has to make a real
impact on spending.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I do use the power that I have to make
a real impact on spending. I am one of six
members on the Joint Budget Committee. I'm in the minority
both on the Joint Budget Committee and in the Senate chambers,
and if I were in the House, i'd be there.
So I am in the minority. I use every tool
that I possibly can to make them cut the budget.
So my first year on the Joint Budget Committee. The
governor came in with over six hundred million dollars, close
(26:44):
to seven hundred million dollars of what he called, you know,
for projects he wanted. So we were supposed to do
a set aside in the budget of that amount just
for the governor's lush fund.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yes, from a stupid bridge and for the capital.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
I'm just gonna, oh my god, don't even get you
started on event. But I call it the big ugly bridge.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
But no, so close to seven hundred million dollars in
that first year, I was able to get it down
to two hundred million. I think that's pretty good being
in the minority, because they can outvote us.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
It's forty two sure Budget Committee.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Hey forty it is twenty three to twelve on the
Senate floor.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I get out voted. I can only do so much.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Last year, in the twenty four session, my second year
on the Joint Budget Committee, I held out the budget
was a week late being presented across the street to
the rest of the General Assembly, and got some other
substantial cuts and got the governor's fund, you know, I
called it the governor's pot, you know, legislation plush fund. Well,
sort of legislation has to be passed.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
But it's like, well, this is.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
The legislation I want passed, and this is the amount
of money that goes with it. So wants us to
have like a placeholder or a set aside in the
budget so that when that legislation passes, the money is
there to fund it. Right, So last year I was
able to get it down to less than sixty five million.
I think that's pretty darn good considering I'm in the
minority and I can only do so much.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
And once that budget bill leaves the Joint.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Budget Committee and goes across the streets, my power is
all gone.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Right.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
It is now down to thee hundred legislators are there,
and in the Senate there are twenty three Democrats to
twelve Republicans, and in the House it's twenty and more.
Unvaliad Well, I mean, they're not in a super minority anymore,
but it's twenty two Republicans to sixty five minus twenty two.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
What's the forty three?
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah, forty three, So we are outnumbered. So it goes
back to what can y'all do? Look at who you're
voting for.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yep, amen to that. When we get back, I want
you to answer this question. In our last segment, I'm
with Senator Barb Kirkmeyer asked Senator Kirkmeyer about funding our
roads and transportation. We'll do that right after this on KOA.
This question is an important one, Mandy. Can you ask
Senator Kirkmeyer about funding our roads and transportation? And I
am here to tell you that I am sick to
(28:51):
death of hearing about anything that isn't fixing the roads.
I don't want to hear about mass transit. No one's
going to use. I don't want to hear about bike lanes,
no one's going to use. I don't want to hear
about road diets. I don't want to hear about anything
that we are doing at the Department of Transportation because
of the leadership the governor, the Department of Transportation a head,
they're all invested in making everyone else get out of
their cars. What if anything is going to change, you
(29:14):
just told me off the ear. You guys don't even
talk about transportation.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Basically, we don't other than it's about mass transit. So
our legislators. You know again, I'm in the minority, but
the other side of the aisle, they like to push
a lot of transit oriented, you know, green energy type
things through, and so back in twenty one they passed
they said it was the big transportation Bill.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I mean yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Basically they put money in the bill that we are
already were funding towards roads and then moved everything over
into like transit or other things non things, you know,
I mean the well line, which would probably be good
at some point in the future, but we don't have
the money for that, but we don't use. For the
most part, there is hardly any general fund money that
goes into transportation. It's all from the highway user's tax
(29:58):
fund that we get or federal dollars that we get
that go into the transportation budget. So there's like this
taboo at the state capitol in the legislative branch that
we don't even talk about projects.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
For the most part. They're like, oh no, we can't
do that, And I'm like, why can't.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
We do it. We're legislators, we write laws.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
You know, but they won't allow it.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
How many of your legislator colleagues take the train or
bus to work?
Speaker 3 (30:19):
I have no clue. I don't think any of it.
I'd love to know, because of the block. I know
because they look pretty close.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Sure, but when they actually start taking mass transit to
on a daily basis to get to and from the Capitol,
I will take them seriously about mass transit. Until then,
go pound sand, fix my potholes, make sure that I
can get from point A to point B in my
car in a timely fashion. That's all I care about this.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Our roadways, eliminate congestion, and let's work.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Let's work our way through. I mean this north Side
twenty five project. I started it on working out when
I was a county commissioner and I sat on the
State Transportation Advisory Committee. We worked it through the whole
process to get it funded, and it's billions of dollars.
But you know, thank god, I tell people all the time,
they complain about all the road we're happening, so you
should be thankful we're getting stuff done on.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Our road exactly absolutely.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
I know. I know it's horrible, but it'll be over
soon and we'll have three lanes all the way up here.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
I don't know what this means, Maybe you do. Phillips
County has been advised that the Governor's office is requesting
they may hold back some HUTF.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
What is hut F.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
HUTF is highway users tax funds. So if the gas
tax that you pay in at the pump, so.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
He's going to hold back even more, Well, I don't.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
You can't just do that. There's a formula that's in place.
There would have to be some legislative changes. So thank
you Phillips County for letting me know maybe what's coming
in the next session.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
There you go, When can we start cutting all the
unnecessary taxpayer funded programs? Free school lunch for all, which
sticks in my cross so bad as I see kids
at my daughter's high school driving up in their beamers
knowing that they're getting quote free lunch is super frustrating.
I am all for free and reduced lunch for families
that need it. One percent. I support that, and there's
(31:53):
no stigma anymore because it's all digital, right. They all
put in their little numbers. Nobody knows. We've got to
roll that back. It's just stupid.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
That was a ballot measure that was passed and it's
going to be on the ballot again this year because
they wanted general fund money to help figure out how
to finish funding it, and we told them no, so
they're putting them back on the ballot so that they
can retain money. And what I've heard is they're trying
they might change that in the special session to add
to it as well.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Oh man, vote no.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
We could go on for like another I have all
these other questions about defunding CPW, about one of your
colleagues who has really benefited from her time in the
House by getting a lot of money for her nonprofit.
There's a lot of stuff that we can talk about.
Let's do this again soon.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Okay, anytime.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, I'm off the word, Saint Senator Barb Kirkmyer. I
really appreciate your time, very informative stuff, and maybe we'll
have you on during the special session to kind of
get a feel for what's going on there.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
And thank you. Thank you for doing what you're doing
to keep people informed. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
I'm really and I hate to be cynical and like
a negative Nelly, but if the citizenry doesn't get smarter
about their choices, and whenever we have a ballot initiative
that's cutting taxes, and yet they keep electing Democrats who
are inevitably going to raise their taxes. It makes my
head explode. The inconsistency makes me nuts, but hopefully we'll
(33:12):
have given them enough reasons to vote Republican in the
near future. Barb, thanks for coming in.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Thank you
Jo winning me in the studio right now for the
first time. She's never been in our digs before. I'm
kind of excited to have you on the show. State
Senator Barb Kirkmeyer, first of all, welcome in, Thank you,
thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
This is great.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Yeah, you were confused by the deeply blood red lobby
I re media redecorated and what I like to call
a mix of hospital meets whorehouse.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
That's what. Oh god, yeah, that's just me.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I mean that's how I view it.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
First of all, Barb, how.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Long have you been working on budgets in Colorado?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Well, I was a county commissioner, so I had twenty
years as a county commissioner on and off, and then
I also worked for Governor Bill Owens and his cabinet,
and I did the budget portion of it for the
Department of Local Affairs, so pretty much about thirty years.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I have different budgets all the way through.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I'm not sure there's somebody in the legislature who has
more budgetary experience than you do.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Probably not.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I would say no at this point because I've been
on the Joint Budget Committee then for the state which
the Joint Budget Committee We're the people who write the
budget for the state of Colorado. There are six of us,
and I just finished my third year being you know,
third session of being on the Joint Budget Committee.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
What are some of the things that you've seen happen
over the thirty years that you have been paying attention
to and working on budgets in Colorado.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
So I'm amazed, especially at our budget right now in
the state of Colorado. I mean, we had three years
ago we had three point six billion dollars in surplus,
you know, so the Tabor surplus, right, and you know,
the governor was handing out checks putting his name all
over it during election year kind of thing, right, And
now we're to the point of because of all the
tax credits and different legislation that's been passed by my
colleagues on the other side of the aisle, there won't
(01:31):
be a tabor surplus here because of different tax credits
and things of that nature. Granted there are people getting
tax credits, not me, but.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
The variety of people.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, other people, the favored ones yea, as I like
to call them. After the legislative session, we're facing a
special session.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
What is that about?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I think it's going to be about the Democrats are
looking at how to blame Trump for our tax our
tax and spend issues that we have here in this
state and the budget deficit that we have, you know,
So if they can't blame Tabor, they want to try
and blame Trump when they should actually just blame themselves.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So what is the issue with our taxes spend? What
have we done over the last few years? And when
did it really ratchet up in your view, that we
just started spending like drunken monkeys, although I hate to
disparage drunken monkeys.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, those four monkeys, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
So I would say when it was first at least
brought to my attention and going back and researching this
March of twenty twenty one, we knew we were in
what's called a structural deficit. So it's not like we're
just overspending. We have continued to overspend year over year
over year, and it's messing with the structure of our budget.
And so it really happened with all of those dollars
(02:38):
that came in from the federal government during COVID, you know,
the American Rescue planned dollars. I mean we're attacking billions
that came in. Some went directly to the governor and
to his departments, So like the Department of Education, Department
of Human Services, Department of Health Care Policy and Finance,
Department of Health and Public Environment, they all got direct distributions.
There were counties, the five top counties in the state,
(03:01):
you know, most populated counties in the state, they got
a direct distribution.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
So there were moneies that went there.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
And then there were moneies that were appropriated through the
legislative branch, through the Joint Budget Committee and the General Assembly,
and those should have been thought of as one time funds.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
That's what I was going to ask you. So it
sounds like they spent those moneies on recurring expenses and
now that money's gone. Is that kind of the long
and short of it?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
That that's what I say, But my Democrat colleagues on
the Joint Budget Committee say, oh no, no, that's not it.
But I mean you can point to we created new departments,
new offices, the Behavior Health Administration. I mean, they've had
over a billion dollars in funding from you know, we
call them ARPA funds, American Rescue funds.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And I'm like, well, what's our return on investment? Like?
What have we done? You know?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
I mean, I'm not arguing that we don't have a
behavior health you know, crisis at least at one point
in our state.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
But what have we done? Where's our return on investment?
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Like what's the outcomes from all that money that's been spent?
And and keep in mind, we created the Behavior your
Health Administration almost it's like a pseudo department. We couldn't
create another department because we can only have twenty minor constitution,
but we created like another administration that acts. They've got
a cabinet member. I mean, they're they're administrative director.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Okay, if you just hit me with something that.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Is so frustrating. Yes, the Colorado Democrats have shown again
and again and again an absolute disregard for the letter
of the law. And they if they've created another department
without creating a department because they're constitutionally prohibited by doing it.
But it looks like a department and it walks like
(04:36):
a department.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It's a department.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
How what recourse does a person like me have? I mean,
because the Colorado Supreme Court is full of idiots, you
don't have to comment on that, that's my opinion, they're
going to just rubber stamp anything that happens. There's like
it's all out of control, from from stealing our table
refunds to redirect them to favored classes.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
There's so many things like.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
That where they're basically like, oh, we see you law,
you tabor, but we're going to go around you by
calling everything a fee exactly.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
And the only recourse we have as citizens is to
vote them out.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
We've got to.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Change who we're voting for, and we've got to get
rid of this one party control.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
That seriously is that there is It's hard to have a.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Check in balance when the House, the Senate, and the
Governor's office are all controlled by Democrats.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Hopelessly controlled. I mean, I mean people always get mad,
they're like, why didn't a Republican And I'm like, they're
so outnumbered that the fact that any Democrat gives lip
service even to Republican needs is kind of remarkable because.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
They don't have to. It's hard. You know, we're in
the minority.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
So but being on the Joint Budget Committee, it's actually
probably the best place to be if you're going to
be in the minority, because again, six members three or
from the House three or from the Senate. The majority
party gets to pick two, so four Democrats two Republicans,
but can't be a Joint Budget Committee bill unless all
six Joint Budget Committee members agree to it. Okay, right,
They can't have a vote on stuff going on in
(05:59):
the budget, you know, trying to say the budget unless
a member of the minority is there.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
So, you know what, we don't like things.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I mean last year in the twenty fourth session, they
were going down this path where they thought they could
just roll the two Republicans on the committee. At about eleven
o'clock at night, I said I'm done. I'm going home.
And they're like, well, we haven't closed the budget. And
I said, well, i'm done. I'm going home. You've been
disrespectful to me. I'm going home. And Representative Taggard, who's
the other Republican, he's from Grant Junction and he's on
the Joint Budget Committee.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
He got up and we both left. There you go,
and that's the only way you can fly. We'll come
back tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Yeah, let's see how you feel tomorrow, like, you know,
and how are Yeah, I mean, I got to call
at six in.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
The morning from the chair, okay, and making sure you
were coming in like day yeah, Like.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Well, what can we do to get everybody back to
the table. It was like, well, first of all, you
can be respectful, Like we weren't rolling you. I thought
we were all working together. And then all of a sudden,
you're just passing resolution or passing motions and increasing our
budget and not even thinking about things, things that we
thought we'd already voted on, and they're revoting on them
and changing them around.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I said, that's just rude.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
So yeah, you know, here's what I have to have now,
and I had a list.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Oh good, yeah good. I'm proud of you, Barb. That's
a nice Here, let's talk.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
About medicaid for a moment, because this has been the
big boogeyman. This, apparently, based on what I'm seeing from
national Democrats, is going to be the thing that they
think they're finally got the thing, the hammer Trump with
that they've been desperately searching for the thing.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
But the reality is here in Colorado.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And I love doing this on X This is my
favorite thing when I see Democrats talking about the fact
that you know, no I legal immigrant is on Medicaid
and I'm like, oh, contreire, we have an entire department
that has illegal immigrants on Medicaid. What is going to
happen with Medicaid and Colorado? Are they going to roll
it back to the constraints that it was originally intended
to be in elderly people, pregnant women, really poor people.
(07:44):
That's what Medicaid is designed for.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I don't know that they're actually going to roll it back,
and I think it's really kind of im I've been
trying to follow it as best as i can, but
I'm confused as well. Because the eligibility for Medicaid to
be on Medicaid, which is health insurance, the eligibility criteria
are not really changing. The only thing that is changing
is they're adding additional eligibility criteria for those able bodied.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
And I want everybody to think about it.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Able bodied people who can work without dependence.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So adults from nineteen to sixty.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Four years of age that are able to work, able bodied,
have no children, are on Medicaid. And they're saying, look,
you want to be on Medicaid, We're gonna put work
requirements on. You're gonna have to at least work part time.
Eighty hours a month or volunteer or be in school.
That's gonna be the additional criteria. There's been I haven't
(08:40):
seen anything, and i've best you know, folks who implement medicaid,
you know, at the local level, whether it's a health
center or behavior health center or something of that nature,
or county, like, did they change the eligibility requirements because
I'm confused here, And the answer is no other than
putting in a work requirement, which is no different than
what happened during President Clinton, who rechanged how we do
(09:03):
welfare in the United States and created temporary aid to
needy families called TANA for short, but temporary aid was
a deal.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
He put in time clocks.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
There was a two year time clock and then a
five year lifetime clock, right, and work participation rates. You
either had to be in school or you had to
have a job.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
All right, bart I interviewed a woman when I first
got my show, So this is like two thousand and five,
two thousand and six, and I was interviewing her about
something else. She was working with an organization that I
was talking to, and I had been talking before that
about welfare reform just in general, and she came on
the show to talk about this other thing and said,
I was listening to what you said. This was in
southwest Florida. She said, I want to tell you my story.
(09:46):
She said, I grew up. I was a multi generational
welfare family recipient. Her grandmother had been on welfare, her
mother was on welfare. She was on welfare. And when
Bill Clinton passed those requirements, she was part of that
group that said you got to go to work. Well,
she got a job, and that's what happened. She liked working,
she enjoyed it, she.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Was good at it, she felt good about herself.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
And then when she got a promotion, she had to
make the choice of giving up some of her welfare
benefits to move up. And she chose to move up,
and she said it was the greatest thing in my
entire life. And I thought that that was like people
like that. No one talks about that, the success stories,
and in all honesty, I think the vast majority of
the people, and I don't know, do we know the
(10:26):
number of how many people in Colorado don't meet any
of those requirements now, because the notion that everybody's going
to be thrown off Medicaid is only accurate if none
of these people are working, caring for a loved one,
you know, in school or any of that. So I
who's going to actually get kicked off here exactly?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
And so they're just supposing kind of thing. And I
think the other thing is read the fine print. When
we were at the Joint Budget Committee a couple of
weeks ago and the Director of Office and State Planning
Budget for the Governor, Director Farandino, was in, they're talking
about the number of people who won't receive health who
won't receive health care benefits. And at that time, the bill,
(11:05):
the federal bill, had things in there about you know,
undocumented immigrants that you couldn't fund them kind of thing,
and it would things would change, And it wasn't people
getting pushed off Medicaid. It was people who weren't going
to get healthcare because we have Medicaid, which I guess
I would probably argue that people who are not supposed
to be on Medicaid or not on Medicaid. I'm sure
there are some like we had, you know, seven million
(11:27):
dollars worth of people have already been dead for a
while that we're still getting Medicaid benefits. But we have
what we call Medicaid like programs that the state funds
and their state funded programs without any federal dollars.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
But I mean it stands to reason at some point
if we start kicking people off Medicaid because federal reimbursements drop,
I would hope that they would prioritize citizens over non citizens.
That's just, in my mind, the way it should be.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
And that's exactly how Medicaid is. So Medicaid is only
for US citizens. Non citizens are not supposed to be Medicaid,
yeah they are. That would be a problem. So it's
and again, they aren't kicking anyone off the eligibility requirements,
at least as far as I understand it. The eligibility
requirements stay the same, with the exception of what is
(12:13):
called the expansion population that happened during Obamacare, and that.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Part that's what nobody talks about, right.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
That's the able bodied individuals nineteen to sixty four with
no dependents. Right, They're going to have to go work
for eighty hours a month, so part time volunteer are
be in school.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I've got to tell you, I disagree with the expansion
of medicaid for a couple of reasons. One, it stretches
the resources of the program that is designed for elderly people,
for pregnant women, for extremely poor people, and her children.
So we've basically created a situation where wait times have
gone up. There's a perverse incentive to see those healthy
(12:52):
people because they get reimbursed at a higher rate, which
I still don't understand how that's possible. But ultimately a
big problem seems to me that the hotel of the
hospital provider fees have been struck down by the big
beautiful bill. They've been used to pad the bills to
the federal government by states, not just Colorado, but by
(13:13):
other states, to just basically tack on a charge, and
now the federal government says we're not reimbursing them. The
big issue for me seems that we need to worry
about some of our rural health care providers and what
does that look like.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
We need to we need to worry about all of
our Medicaid providers and in fact, for forever, our provider
rate increase, you know, for you know, to pay them
and reimburse them has never never worked with inflation. It's
never increased at the same rate of inflation. So in
the last year.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
And here's the.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Thing that I just find so ironic and hypocritical that
my Democrat colleagues, including the governor of this state, have
been chastising the federal government for cutting Medicaid. You want
to know who cut medicaid, Governor Polus. He came in
in his budget request just even this year, but even
last year, in the previous year. All three years that
I have been on the Joint Budget Committee and seeing
(14:04):
the governor's budget request, he never increases the Medicaid.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Provider rate up to inflation.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Well, and Medicaid reimbursal rates are even lower than Medicare,
which are lower than the regular market.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
And so I mean, my first year on the Joint
Budget Committee, I fought like heck with Senator Zenzinger, who
is a Democrat from Marvada. She's now a county commissioner,
and we got it up to three percent.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Last year I had it up to two and a
half percent.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
So in the twenty four session, had it up to
two and a half percent increase in a time when
inflation was five percent, right, so we're underfunding it, right,
I get it up to two and a half percent.
In the final hours, we had to knock it down
to two percent, and if I didn't have the votes.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
What people need to understand is that makes it less likely,
especially for specialist. And I realized this many many years ago.
I was working with a friend of mine who needed
a pediatric neurologist and she was on METAD. It took
us nine months to even find a practice that was
one hundred and fifty miles away that would take a
new patient.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
That is the kind of stress that we're putting on Medicaid.
The more people that are on it, you have this
dwindling pool of providers because they're underpaid for their services,
and god forbid, you have a serious illness because getting
to see a specialist, getting into see a specialist can
be almost impossible.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
So all of these things.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
You can't look at it as just well, these people
need healthcare coverage, Okay, great, they are probably going to
be well subsidized on the Obamacare market. There are subsidies
still available on the Obamacare market, and perhaps they should
be picking up more of their own more of their
own costs.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Absolutely, but the reality is this, again, democrats in the
state want to keep blaming Trump. They want to blame
the Big Bill for all of our problems. And we've
had a governor that has come in for at least
the last three years. I can probably go back and
research and know that it's been longer than that, but
for at least the last three years has come in
and shortchanged medical.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Providers year after year after year. That creates a problem.
I believe our healthcare.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Infrastructure system in the state we are in crisis mode.
We have twenty five counties, twenty five counties with maternal
health care deserts and it's growing, So no place to
have a baby in twenty five of our rural counties.
And what did the governor do in his budget request
last November cut rural healthcare?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Well, he doesn't care about the rural areas. I mean,
I don't mean to be I don't mean to be
so flippant about that, but deeds, not words, and deeds
show that this governor does not care about rural Coloraden's
He really doesn't. It's lacking. Yeah, exactly right, and it's shameful,
it really is. But they're not going to vote for him,
so he doesn't care. I've got a bunch of questions
when we're Senator Barb Kirkmeyer on the text line, and
(16:44):
I want to ask, we're talking about the special session
to cut spending. Where do you see those cuts coming?
Where are the most obvious places? Because here's what we're
going to hear. We're going to hear we have to
cut education, and we have to cut firefighters and police
and all of the things. You they all have to
go away because God forbid, we cut back on some
of the people we've hired.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
We're going to talk about that.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
But I did get this question that I wanted to
jump into really quickly because I think it's an easy one.
Haven't there been seven thousand or so new state jobs
created since Polos took office with para that creates a
huge long term liability.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Is that accurate?
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yes, for the last seven years, six years. I know
because from twenty five backs, so the last six years,
year over year, we've increased by more than one thousand
employees full time equivalent employees FTEs in state government.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Or we're zeroing in.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
We're getting close to having seventy over seventy thousand.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Employees in state government. Wow.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Now, granted a huge chunk of those are in higher education,
but just even in the executive branch, it's about six
to seven.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Hundred a year. But we have increased year over yearge year.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Administrations have increased, you know, eighty four percent here, thirty
six percent here, you know, and that's adjusted for inflation.
I mean, over the course of the last six years,
they should have been increased by eleven point three percent
eleven point six percent. Don't quote me exactly on that anyone,
but somewhere around eleven point three to six percent somewhere
in that area. But we've had departments, almost every department
(18:16):
and including the judicial branch, and the other elected officials
of their departments have increased by way more than that,
almost all of them.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Thank god.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
The Democrats are focused like a laser on saving us money, Barb,
as they told me last election cycle. Can you imagine
how bad things would be if they hadn't. I've got
a bunch of text messages.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
We're going to talk about this.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
If you have questions about going forward, we'll talk about
where you see the most likely places that we can
shrink the size of government back into some kind of
manageable space. We'll do that next with Senator Barb Kirkmeyer.
Keep it right here on KOA. Barb Kirkmeyer State Senator
Barb Kirkmeyer in the studio with us. Now she's like
she knows about the budget. How much has the budget
grown in the last ten years? Just ballpark me.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Man, Now you stumped me on that question because I
wasn't there ten years ago. And it's hard because when
people talk about the budget, you know, we have a
forty four billion dollar budget, but that's not all general funds.
So general fun is the revenue that comes in from
income tax and sales tax. The state does not collect
property tax, so that's where the revenue comes in. And
then we have federal dollars that come in, and then
(19:21):
we have cash funds, most of which are like fees
that are paid, you know, like when you go to
the motor vehicle office and you pay that.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Fee when you get a tax that they called the fee.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, I'm just gonna pulify.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
But anyways, so our general fund operating budget, which is
when I talk about that, we're like this year going
into this next year seven hundred million. In the whole,
it's about eighteen point five billion, okay, And so I
don't know what it was ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
I'm sorry, I'll find out. I'll let you know.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
No, I'm just kiddous because I know that it's been
pretty steady growth overall, and how much the State of
Colorado spends with all of the federal money and all
of that stuff. So let's talk about you got a
special session coming up, and where are the most likely
areas that we'll need to be cut to make up
what's the difference that we're looking at right now?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Right now, we're at about a seven hundred million.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Dollar deficit, you know, pocket change going.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Into the next budget year, and so some of that
will be we'll deal with that in this current budget year.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
What obviously, we're not going to unwind all of the
new stuff that we created, those new departments that are departments.
So where is this money going to come from?
Speaker 3 (20:22):
So, first of all, I don't think the special session
is going to be about cuts.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
What you think it's going to be about raising taxes? Yes, yes,
well let's talk about that for just a second, because
I just realized, thanks to one of your tweets, that
the State of Colorado preemptively wanted to make sure that
you were not going to get the benefit of a
break on overtime, and now the State of Colorado is
(20:45):
going to include your non taxable overtime that the federal
government isn't going to attack in your overall adjusted gross
income so they can tax it. And what's hilarious about
this is people on the left online are telling me, well,
that's not a taxing increase. Your overtime was tax last year.
It's just going to be tax this year when the
federal government is going to lower your taxes, but the
(21:07):
State of Colorado takes measures to then rap them to add.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
It back on. Correct, that would be a change in
tax policy.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
That is a tax increase, Yes it is. What are
what else are they looking at? Taxing?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I think they want to look at that.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
One of the other things that needs to look at
is some of the tax credits because they have a
trigger that happens in December and we need they need
to be fixed because if they're not fixed, we will
have to basically dip into our general fund operating budget
to pay for the homestead exemption, you know that senior
homestead exemption. We'll have to dip into that to pay
for it in this current budget year, which will cause
(21:42):
us about I think it was a seventy one again
don't quote me places, but around seventy to seventy five
million dollar hit to our budget, adding on and making
part of that seven hundred million dollar deficit that we have.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
So they're talking about perhaps not.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Having perhaps maybe cutting it, cutting it back so that
we don't have to pay general fund.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
So we use for the Homestead Exemption Act, we use
our tabor.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
It's a taber refund mechanism to pay for the Homestead
Exemption Act, you know, for the senior property tax exemptions,
you know, on the military exemptions that we have in there,
we pay for those out of taber surplus.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
And that's allowed.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
And in fact, some of us would argue that it
even kind of states that in the constitution. It's not
real black and white, but we could we could probably
argue that. So in the last year, there's been a
bunch of tax credits created.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
One of them was the earned income tax credit.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
So anyone earning lesson I think it's sixty three thy
six hundred somewhere in there, matches what the federal government
is doing on earning income tax credit.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
They get a tax credit.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
On their state income tax and then there's also I
call it the Family Childcare tax Credit that one as well.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
They're they're huge. One of them is at the family.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
The Childcare tax credit one is about a seven hundred
million dollar tax credit that's occurring. The earned income tax credit.
Again we think of these as these tax credits as
tabor refund mechanisms. But the earned income tax credit one
is around three hundred million dollars or so. So that's
a billion dollar swing. If that goes into play next year,
it will drive our budget deficit even more, like it
(23:15):
could be like another billion.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Dollars if we're short, though, is there are their table refunds,
you know, if we're short.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
No, okay, but so there'll be.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
No tabor refunds, right, and we'll still have to fund
those taxes.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
And we will have to fund the senior property tax exemption.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Okay, right, So are they talking? I mean, would you
think that they would go after either of those things?
Because and some of the people need to understand that
may not understand when we're talking about a tax credit
that is a fixed sum of money, that's not a
tax break, that's not a tax right off, This is
you are going to get x amount of dollars back
in your pocket from the from the government, either of
(23:51):
the day of the federal government.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
And the other thing that happens, especially with the earned
income tax credit, is even if you didn't pay in taxes,
you're still going to get that set amount of money.
And I think when I was reading John Caldera's information
his articles, it's like fifteen thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, it's exactly. So they didn't even pay those.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
So basically we're taking our taper surplus and we are
redistributing to other people people.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Who didn't pay it. Yes, yeah, and that's super frustrating.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well, they may have.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Paid sales tax, so I mean everybody pays taxes.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Everybody pays taxes, not everybody pays income taxes. So I
got a bunch of stuff on the blog. Let's talk
about this, Mandy. Do you mean they're not getting rich
from all the extra taxes they put on gun owners?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
No, short answer, No, Mandy.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Wouldn't Tabor kick in on this If the Democrats want
to try and tax the overtime, wouldn't that have to
be put on the ballot for voters to vote on?
Or am I not understanding tabor does seem like it's
a tax in Chris.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I believe it should have. But here's how they got
around it. They passed the bill.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
In the twenty five sessions, so just this last May
essentially passed the bill that said in the future, should
the federal government exempt overtime taxes, the state will still
add them back in. So they actually didn't change tax
policy with pay legislation, and that's how they got around it.
Because I had a lot of questions myself about that,
So thank you to your person when we're at the
(25:12):
Joint Budget Committee. But now the problem they're going to
have is they set that for out in an out year,
so a year out, so it will mean that for
this first year, because the big bill has passed out
at the federal level, that there will be no taxes
on overtime for about a year, and that will be
about a two hundred and fifty million dollars hit to
(25:33):
the state's revenues and we will add that to the
seven hundred million.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
That's why I think the special session.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Is going to be about increasing your taxes, changing that
effective date so that we catch the overtime taxes. The
taxing on overtime this year, and so I do think
that does need to go to the ballot and that
people need to vote on it because then it will
be a tax policy change.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Well, but then they would not vote on that, so
they would vote no. So that's kind of what we
do here. In the most schizophrenic voter group in the world.
They keep electing the Democrats who keep raising taxes, and
they keep voting against raising taxes, and I don't understand
how they don't see how those things are connected. Somebody
just said this, and this is one of the biggest
criticisms I get, and I'm gonna let you address it.
(26:16):
And it said, she's blaming the Dems. Ask why she
doesn't use the power she has to make a real
impact on spending.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I do use the power that I have to make
a real impact on spending. I am one of six
members on the Joint Budget Committee. I'm in the minority
both on the Joint Budget Committee and in the Senate chambers,
and if I were in the House, i'd be there.
So I am in the minority. I use every tool
that I possibly can to make them cut the budget.
So my first year on the Joint Budget Committee. The
governor came in with over six hundred million dollars, close
(26:44):
to seven hundred million dollars of what he called, you know,
for projects he wanted. So we were supposed to do
a set aside in the budget of that amount just
for the governor's lush fund.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yes, from a stupid bridge and for the capital.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
I'm just gonna, oh my god, don't even get you
started on event. But I call it the big ugly bridge.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
But no, so close to seven hundred million dollars in
that first year, I was able to get it down
to two hundred million. I think that's pretty good being
in the minority, because they can outvote us.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
It's forty two sure Budget Committee.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Hey forty it is twenty three to twelve on the
Senate floor.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I get out voted. I can only do so much.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Last year, in the twenty four session, my second year
on the Joint Budget Committee, I held out the budget
was a week late being presented across the street to
the rest of the General Assembly, and got some other
substantial cuts and got the governor's fund, you know, I
called it the governor's pot, you know, legislation plush fund. Well,
sort of legislation has to be passed.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
But it's like, well, this is.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
The legislation I want passed, and this is the amount
of money that goes with it. So wants us to
have like a placeholder or a set aside in the
budget so that when that legislation passes, the money is
there to fund it. Right, So last year I was
able to get it down to less than sixty five million.
I think that's pretty darn good considering I'm in the
minority and I can only do so much.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
And once that budget bill leaves the Joint.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Budget Committee and goes across the streets, my power is
all gone.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Right.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
It is now down to thee hundred legislators are there,
and in the Senate there are twenty three Democrats to
twelve Republicans, and in the House it's twenty and more.
Unvaliad Well, I mean, they're not in a super minority anymore,
but it's twenty two Republicans to sixty five minus twenty two.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
What's the forty three?
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah, forty three, So we are outnumbered. So it goes
back to what can y'all do? Look at who you're
voting for.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yep, amen to that. When we get back, I want
you to answer this question. In our last segment, I'm
with Senator Barb Kirkmeyer asked Senator Kirkmeyer about funding our
roads and transportation. We'll do that right after this on KOA.
This question is an important one, Mandy. Can you ask
Senator Kirkmeyer about funding our roads and transportation? And I
am here to tell you that I am sick to
(28:51):
death of hearing about anything that isn't fixing the roads.
I don't want to hear about mass transit. No one's
going to use. I don't want to hear about bike lanes,
no one's going to use. I don't want to hear
about road diets. I don't want to hear about anything
that we are doing at the Department of Transportation because
of the leadership the governor, the Department of Transportation a head,
they're all invested in making everyone else get out of
their cars. What if anything is going to change, you
(29:14):
just told me off the ear. You guys don't even
talk about transportation.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Basically, we don't other than it's about mass transit. So
our legislators. You know again, I'm in the minority, but
the other side of the aisle, they like to push
a lot of transit oriented, you know, green energy type
things through, and so back in twenty one they passed
they said it was the big transportation Bill.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I mean yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Basically they put money in the bill that we are
already were funding towards roads and then moved everything over
into like transit or other things non things, you know,
I mean the well line, which would probably be good
at some point in the future, but we don't have
the money for that, but we don't use. For the
most part, there is hardly any general fund money that
goes into transportation. It's all from the highway user's tax
(29:58):
fund that we get or federal dollars that we get
that go into the transportation budget. So there's like this
taboo at the state capitol in the legislative branch that
we don't even talk about projects.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
For the most part. They're like, oh no, we can't
do that, And I'm like, why can't.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
We do it. We're legislators, we write laws.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
You know, but they won't allow it.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
How many of your legislator colleagues take the train or
bus to work?
Speaker 3 (30:19):
I have no clue. I don't think any of it.
I'd love to know, because of the block. I know
because they look pretty close.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Sure, but when they actually start taking mass transit to
on a daily basis to get to and from the Capitol,
I will take them seriously about mass transit. Until then,
go pound sand, fix my potholes, make sure that I
can get from point A to point B in my
car in a timely fashion. That's all I care about this.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Our roadways, eliminate congestion, and let's work.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Let's work our way through. I mean this north Side
twenty five project. I started it on working out when
I was a county commissioner and I sat on the
State Transportation Advisory Committee. We worked it through the whole
process to get it funded, and it's billions of dollars.
But you know, thank god, I tell people all the time,
they complain about all the road we're happening, so you
should be thankful we're getting stuff done on.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Our road exactly absolutely.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
I know. I know it's horrible, but it'll be over
soon and we'll have three lanes all the way up here.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
I don't know what this means, Maybe you do. Phillips
County has been advised that the Governor's office is requesting
they may hold back some HUTF.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
What is hut F.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
HUTF is highway users tax funds. So if the gas
tax that you pay in at the pump, so.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
He's going to hold back even more, Well, I don't.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
You can't just do that. There's a formula that's in place.
There would have to be some legislative changes. So thank
you Phillips County for letting me know maybe what's coming
in the next session.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
There you go, When can we start cutting all the
unnecessary taxpayer funded programs? Free school lunch for all, which
sticks in my cross so bad as I see kids
at my daughter's high school driving up in their beamers
knowing that they're getting quote free lunch is super frustrating.
I am all for free and reduced lunch for families
that need it. One percent. I support that, and there's
(31:53):
no stigma anymore because it's all digital, right. They all
put in their little numbers. Nobody knows. We've got to
roll that back. It's just stupid.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
That was a ballot measure that was passed and it's
going to be on the ballot again this year because
they wanted general fund money to help figure out how
to finish funding it, and we told them no, so
they're putting them back on the ballot so that they
can retain money. And what I've heard is they're trying
they might change that in the special session to add
to it as well.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Oh man, vote no.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
We could go on for like another I have all
these other questions about defunding CPW, about one of your
colleagues who has really benefited from her time in the
House by getting a lot of money for her nonprofit.
There's a lot of stuff that we can talk about.
Let's do this again soon.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Okay, anytime.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, I'm off the word, Saint Senator Barb Kirkmyer. I
really appreciate your time, very informative stuff, and maybe we'll
have you on during the special session to kind of
get a feel for what's going on there.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
And thank you. Thank you for doing what you're doing
to keep people informed. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
I'm really and I hate to be cynical and like
a negative Nelly, but if the citizenry doesn't get smarter
about their choices, and whenever we have a ballot initiative
that's cutting taxes, and yet they keep electing Democrats who
are inevitably going to raise their taxes. It makes my
head explode. The inconsistency makes me nuts, but hopefully we'll
(33:12):
have given them enough reasons to vote Republican in the
near future. Barb, thanks for coming in.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Thank you
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