07-12-24 Interview - Drew Holden on Media Malfeasance

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
All right, friends, My nextguest can be found on Twitter and different
outlets, National Review, the Federalist, but more importantly on his excellent substack
column, and it is called HoldenCourt, where he keeps the media accountable
and helps us understand exactly well howbad they're doing. To put it lightly,

(00:22):
He's the keeper of receipts and theman of many threads. He is
Drew Holden. Drew, welcome tothe show when I'm hosting exactly Mandy,
Thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to be back on
the program, and more than that, I'm really happy to be chatting with
you. I'll tell Ryan that youlike me better. Anyway, let's talk
about this latest story, and Iwant to give you a little backstory of

(00:42):
me. We did a thing thenight of the debate with me and my
fellow host Ross Kaminski where we kindof did like we were going to do
a mystery science theater three thousand kindof thing on Facebook while the debate was
going on. And I was superexcited because I mean, why wouldn't you
be this is going to be great, such a target Rich and I ran
ten minutes in. It was notfun making fun of the president. Okay,

(01:04):
I completely believe that it was awfuland we were all now we've been
talking about the president's obvious decline forsome time, but of course we were
being told by the media that itwas our problem and not to believe our
lion eyes. And you have donea staggeringly good job of gathering up,
as you call it, the receiptsfrom the media over the last year.

(01:27):
So let's talk about this story fora second. Absolutely, Yeah, I
know, I maybe at that firstoff, it's very kind of you to
say so, But I think oneof the things, one of the reasons
I really wanted to write this pieceis obviously that the conversation around President Biden's
mental kind of cognitive functioning has shiftedpost debate. But I was worrying people

(01:49):
had kind of forgotten about what itlooked like before that. So you mentioned
in the last year, but itactually even goes back further than that.
So the end of last year waswhen we really had a lot of discourse
around is being critical of Biden agist? Is the focus on his stutter and
what it means for him when hegoes up to give a speech. You
may see it as freezing, butit's actually, you know, it's anti

(02:12):
the disability community, and it's agistthat you would suggest that maybe the president
doesn't have the mental bandwidth to dothe most important job in the world.
And so we saw this very verybus My favorite there was there's a guy
who writes for the Philly Inquirer namedWill Bunch, and he has a newsletter
and the title of his newsletter latein twenty twenty three was Joe Biden's problem,

(02:34):
question mark your ages. It hasleft an indelible mark on me in
a way that I would imagine Bunchdid not intend, because whenever I think
of that late you know, itwas from twenty twenty two to twenty twenty
three, this moment in time wherethere were outlets. NPR said the same
thing, NBC News asked the samequestion, CBS News asked the same question.
And it's in retrospect, it's reallypreposterous. Well, that's basically a

(03:00):
version of who you going to believeus or your own lion eyes, right,
I mean, it's like, he'sfine, it's the way you're perceiving
him that is the problem. What'sbeen the most remarkable in the last two
weeks, Drew is to see themedia walking around with their mouth open,
going, oh my gosh, noone knew it was this bad, while
at the same time we have ChuckTodd admitting that everyone knew it was this

(03:23):
bad two years ago. And exactlythere's no introspection from Chuck Todd on that
and his role in keeping this secret. Yeah. Absolutely. You know you
mentioned the thread that I did onthis one, and I think one of
the things that really stuck with memost is just the speed and alacrity with
which we went from this isn't happeningto oh boy, this is troubling.

(03:45):
If only we could have known sooner. Right. I'm reminded of a piece
The New York Times wrote back inFebruary when the report from special Special Counsel
Her had about how Biden was afeeble old man. He can't face a
jury because they'd look at him andbe like, oh, he's sweet,
but he's not all there, andso he can't possibly face charges. And

(04:09):
The New York Times wrote a piecethat said memory issues require careful diagnosis and
that her couldn't possibly do it.And then wouldn't you know it? Just
this past week, after the debates. The New York Times two days later
is up with a new story thatsays that people in the room have said
that Biden's mental lapses have been increasingin recent days, in recent weeks,

(04:30):
and I thought to myself, well, gosh, how is it in what
universes it? Are both of thosethings possible? Yeah, exactly. It's
either you need a doctor or youdon't. So I knew it's been This
is going to sound like a veryweird way to put this. It's been
gratifying to see what we all knowto be true finally come out right.

(04:51):
There's a measure of gratification. They'relike, Haha, we were right.
But at the same time, it'slike, oh god, we were right
and it's as bad as we thoughtit was. So what is the next
step? What is the next partof this narrative? Because the media is
obviously not going to go back andtake ownership like you owned them in this
column. They're not going to takeownership of their role in this. No,

(05:12):
I don't think they will. Butyou know, Manny, I think
that my question for how it movesforward from here is which side of the
media wins out and how we talkabout Biden's mental health, particularly after his
remarks yesterday, right the press conferencethat he gave. I think what probably
is going to be the case isthe wole has been pulled from the eyes,

(05:32):
not only of the media, whoI don't think we're I don't think
we're actually naive what's happening to theAmerican people, so just how bad it
was, And so I think thepress, in a somewhat self flagellating way,
is going to take every Biden miscue, every mistake, every hiccup,
and blow it up thousand times andsay this is so bad, this is
so bad. Why aren't the Democratscurious about this about their candidate? But

(05:55):
I do think that, you know, particularly if he can hold on or
if it becomes clear to Democrat andso, you know, the wise voices
in the media that he is goingto stick around. I wouldn't be all
that surprised if the media actually goesthe opposite direction and now goes back to
saying, oh, maybe we overindexed on the debate, maybe we ran
too far with that one, andwe saw Durham the debate, right,
you just saw axios and CBS andNBC all put out headlines that say that

(06:18):
the problem with Biden and why hewas having such a horrible performance was that
he had a poll Yeah, exactlyas your lightning eyes are still sending the
information back to your brain. Thatwas the story that they ran with.
Well, I just saw Jensaki.I actually played this yesterday, and it
seems that for a certain segment,it's almost like the parties have been given

(06:39):
their marching orders. Right. Wehave one of our junior congresswomen, Britney
Patterson, just came out and askedon a conference call and said the president
should step down. Our US senator, the generic Michael Bennett from Colorado,
has also said he thinks Biden can'twin. We've got another senator who's not
up for reelection for four years outof some tiny state in the northeast,

(07:02):
and he's saying that Biden should stepdown. But now I see on Twitter
this is fascinating. I don't knowif you saw it, Drew. Apparently
there is a dream team of superfriends are and this is exactly what it
says. It says a group ofheavyweight super friends from the top of the
Democratic Party head to the White Housetogether to speak with a united voice and

(07:23):
tell him that time is up.Drew, I don't think it works on
him. He really believes that he'sthe greatest president ever. And you know
that that really puts the Democrats inthe bind, right, and it puts
it unfortunately, he puts the superTeam I fear, in a bind because
short of having a broker convention atthe DNC, they the only way that
they're going to be able to changethings is if Biden steps aside. Yeah,

(07:45):
right, and so and soon.I think you're right. I don't
think he wants to. I thinkhe's incredibly stubborn. He is the leader
of the free world. And youknow, like many very old people experiencing
cognitive issues, he doesn't see howbad things are. He can't well.
I used one of my favorite phrasesyesterday to describe the dumpster fire that is
a Colorado GOP chairman. But itdefinitely goes to him as well, and

(08:09):
that is when enough people tell youyou're dead, it's time to lie down.
And he's dead in the water.He just doesn't know it yet.
But the real question is is whetherhe's going to take down the Democratic Party
with him? Yes, Yeah,I think I think that's the that's the
right question, right, because thepolling is exactly as bad as you would
expect in the wake of the debate. And I think there are a lot

(08:30):
of voices in the media who wouldlove to pretend that we can, that
you know, Biden and his teammore than media themselves, can somehow put
this genie pack in the box.But I just I just don't think you
can, right. I don't thinkthat you're ever going to be able to
undo the amount of damage he didat the debate. And I think it's
really clear that it would take atrue act of God to prevent him from
losing the election. Yeah, andthat's yeah. I think the media and

(08:54):
Democrats have to reckon with that.And if the super team can't get it
done, I don't know who can. True, but you, I mean,
they did it to themselves. Theycould have run an open primary.
They could have signaled to Gavin Newsomand others who are interested that they should
run against President Biden, but theydidn't. They circled the wagons around him.
And now we're all supposed to believethey're surprised, but the reality is
they're not surprised at all. They'vebeen watching this happen in slow motion.

(09:16):
Let me ask you a question aboutyesterday's press conference, specifically because you are
a media critic. I was appalledby the kid glove questions that this media
gave the president yesterday. It wasas soft an approach while still pretending to
ask the hard question that I haveever seen it. It was shameful.

(09:37):
You Yeah, I know, maybeI think that's exactly fair. Right,
at the end of the day,if these people in the media take seriously
their role as a counterbalance to themost important office in the world, and
the person occupying that role is clearlyincapable of executing their responsibilities the way that
they thought Donald Trump was, youwould expect there would be a little bit

(10:01):
more temerity and taking on the president, and instead they got the questions that
will give them that I think,and you know, it seemed kind of
designed this way. They asked thesorts of questions that were on the right
topics, but with the kind ofkindness of like what the super team is
probably going to do exactly talk towhen they go and try and talk to

(10:22):
Biden, right, and what theywhat they should be doing is being an
antagonistic force. They are obviously verycomfortable doing that when they're talking to someone
of the other teams, and itwas it was really embarrassing that we're in
the state that we are now andyet they still keep those kid gloves on.
What's fascinating to me is that therehave been so many leaks from various

(10:43):
places now, and we've heard reporterswho have said things like Chuck Todd,
it was a nonversation, it wasthe worst kept secret in Washington, DC,
And one reporter actually said, look, we didn't cover it because we
didn't want to help Trump. Now, how can you work as a journalist
and make that kind of statement andadmit that Chuck Todd admitted that a cabinet

(11:07):
member told him two years ago thatBiden can't run and then turn around and
tell me a conservative that media biasis all in my head. Like that
is such a disconnect for me thatyou could do two of those things at
the same time, and yet that'swhere we are. So is this is
this the end of any shred ofa notion of journalistic integrity? Yeah,

(11:31):
you know, Manny, Unfortunately,I think you probably put it right.
I fear that it is because atthe end of the day, I think
that's what we've seen from the waythe media has covered Biden's Biden's cognitive functioning.
It checks the two most important boxesin this conversation. One, it's
so bad and so egregious that anyonewith a pair of eyes can see it.
And two, it had the higheststakes possible. This is not,

(11:54):
you know, ignoring the little localissue that maybe be unc in table for
them to talk about. This isabout whether or not the man who holds
the nuclear codes has a brain thatallows him to serve as commander in chief,
right, And if you can't,if your if your kind of political
disposition prevents you from even asking questionsin those circumstances, then, my goodness,

(12:16):
where can we expect you to behonest? Where can we trust that
you will be forthright and thoughtful ifit isn't completely aligned with your part of
the disposition. Well, as Imentioned Jen Saki's comments yesterday a little bit,
but the new narrative is, Oh, my gosh, Kamala Harris is
a treasure. She is She actuallysaid powerful communicator and I almost fell off

(12:41):
my chair. It is. Itis incredible the ease with which they shift
gears and the same people that havebeen lying to us for years about Biden
are now telling us, Oh,but you know what, Kamala is amazing.
Have you seen that as well?I have I have, you know,
all of a sudden this the otheryou know, the New York Times
flipped it into a report they hadthe other day that just mentioned in passing,

(13:05):
Oh yeah, Kamala Harris's pulling isactually just as bad as Biden's.
She's at like twenty eight percent inBiden's at twenty seven. But there's but
and yet there is still this beliefthat like she is the hope, she
is the savior, she has allthe right answers, and to me,
what it really like, there's athere's one particular line that just fits with
me about the way the media hascovered Kamala Harris since the debacle of the

(13:28):
debate, and it's that they believethat what can be for her candidacy is
unburdened by what has been, whichis everything that's led us up to this
moment. And I think, youknow, there's a four minute clip of
Kamala Harris repeating that line. Ithink that I think that unfortunately, it
also describes the way the media coversher is that they have woken up afresh

(13:52):
anew to discover the occupant of thenumber two office in the United States and
said, oh, you kind oflike her, you know what, she's
kind of acting. How did wenot notice her awesomeness before? Now?
I mean, what's wrong with us? This is obviously our problem. It's
exactly they wake up every morning andas if the world has started over anew.
So let me ask what unburdened bywhat has been and what has come

(14:15):
before us in the passage of timeand all of that stuff. So I'd
love to know your thoughts about whenwhat I've seen in the last two weeks
is a stunning lack of media disciplinebecause I think that the media was so
undone by this performance on the debatestage because it did all the things you
and I have been talking about here. It undermined their credibility tremendously because the

(14:39):
cat is out of the bag andthey knew about it, and we know
they knew about it, right,So what does this mean? When do
they pull it together? We're goinginto the Republican debate next or a Republican
convention next week. I am predictingDrew that Trump will wait until like Wednesday
night or Thursday night to introduce theVP. Can I think I wouldn't totally

(15:00):
say that, Yeah, because Imean, because why why would you interrupt
this moment? Yeah? Right,And like maybe he does, maybe he
asked you. I don't know.But the idea that he would push off
as long as he possibly can togive the media anything else to talk about
totally makes sense. It is apretty striking level of discipline for someone not
exactly known for his discipline up tothis point. Drew Dare, I say,

(15:22):
is our little Trump growing up?I mean, I don't want to,
I don't want to hex it.But the last couple of weeks,
and in the debate performance itself,we saw a level of discipline that we
have not seen. Yeah. Iwas, I was expecting to see the
New York Times deadline of like inthis moment, Donald Trump really became president,
right. It's it was. Hecomported himself very presidentially. Yeah until

(15:46):
the Gold Handicap debate, which wasridiculous. Yeah yeah, right then then
the juvenile disposition kicked in. Butyeah, it was. It was a
sight to behold. I would lovefor you guys to go to Drew substack
and check out this whole column becausein the column he has all of these
these snippets from all of the mediacovering for Joe Biden embedded in the article

(16:07):
and it is a thing of beauty. Drew Holden, I put a link
on the blog today so people cango to my blog at mandy'sblog dot com
and find the link to your substackand subscribe for a mere five dollars a
month. It's fantastic, Maddie.I really appreciate it. And yeah,
the media gave me a lot towork with on this one. Yeah they
did. We're supposed to check itout. But thank you, Drew.
I appreciate your time today. We'lltalk again soon. Pleasure mind all right,

(16:30):
thank you. That is Drew Holden.