July 31, 2024 • 11 mins
WHAT'S NEXT FOR VENEZUELA? Today at 2:30 I've got Juan P. Villasmil is a reporter with The Spectator and a research fellow for the Latin America-focused Center for a Secure Free Society. Yesterday in Washington DC, Villasmil addressed an audience of Venezuelans gathered in the Simon Bolivar Plaza, and appeared on the NTN24 livecast viewed by thousands of Venezuelans around the world. He has first-hand stories to share, including having spoken at a smoke-filled 2016 protest — at the age of 14 — alongside opposition leader Maria Corina Machado. He knows the players, the observers, and the analysts. Over the weekend The Spectator World published a piece by Juan P. Villasmil titled, .css-j9qmi7{display:-webkit-box;display:-webkit-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webkit-flex-direction:row;-ms-flex-direction:row;flex-direction:row;font-weight:700;margin-bottom:1rem;margin-top:2.8rem;width:100%;-webkit-box-pack:start;-ms-flex-pack:start;-webkit-justify-content:start;justify-content:start;padding-left:5rem;}@media only screen and (max-width: 599px){.css-j9qmi7{padding-left:0;-webkit-box-pack:center;-ms-flex-pack:center;-webkit-justify-content:center;justify-content:center;}}.css-j9qmi7 svg{fill:#27292D;}.css-j9qmi7 .eagfbvw0{-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;color:#27292D;}
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joining me is I guess I'm extremely excited to talk
about one pee. I should have asked one how to
say your last name and I'll try it? VI S
mill VS.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
What is it?
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yeah, you got it?
Speaker 3 (00:12):
It?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Did I really?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I never get anybody's names right. It's kind of my
calling card as a talk show host. He spent the
first sixteen years of his life in Venezuela. He is
now part of a group of young voices and talking
a lot about what's happening over the last few days that.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
We've been talking about on the show. One. First of all,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Hey, thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Now, when did you immigrate to the United States?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, so, though I'm a real American, I was born
in the US, I grew up in Venezuela for the
first sixteen years of my life. So I was there
from the very beginning with Travis, although I was a
baby till the very end of Travis and the first
year sin Maduro. I officially left by the end of
(00:59):
two Thustan's sixteen, which was when I think it's the
last big protest we saw, right, because in the last
eight years we saw some protesting of course, but nothing
as big as what we were seeing today.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Well and today for people who've been living under a
rock for the last couple of days. There was an
election over the weekend, and even though exit polling and
other data and evidence show that the opposition candidate who
was the opposition candidate is a figurehead representing the actual
opposition candidate, who was a woman named Machado. So this
guy she was decued from running, she was disqualified from
(01:35):
running by the corrupt DUA regime because she was going
to win, and so this other man stepped in and said,
I'm going to run on your behalf.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
She's been campaigning with him.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
They are aligned, so a vote for him is essentially
a vote for Machado.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Can you tell me a.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Little bit about her, because you know her, you've appeared
at protests with her. Would what are the policy positions
that you would think she would adopt if she finally
gets into office.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, I do think that really got to get to
office before we even think about those. But if I
could dive into it for a bid, she's a classical liberal.
I know that. You know, there's many stances on like
what to do exactly to move forward as a nation.
The reality is that in the very specific context of Venezuela,
(02:22):
attracting capital as a priority, and that's why you've seen
very interestingly a rise of classical liberals slash libertarians in
South America. You saw with Malay unlike other regions of
the world where you've seen like a populist statist figures Rice.
And this is because Venezuela, like Argentina, has a very
(02:47):
very big state, has a very very big problem with inflation.
And that's why Mara Karina has become more appeeling day
by day. I sorry, why I go back to you,
if I could go back to history really quickly, if
you go back and look at every single other opposition candidate,
(03:07):
they were moderate left wingers, they were democratic socialists. They
didn't talk a great deal about privatizing companies, they didn't
talk a great deal about liberty. They had a Maduro
Tevista light message. Mark karna Is, I would say, the
first person to vocally make a case against socialism and
(03:31):
not just one against authority arianism.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
So that's why this is such an important election and
a sea change in Venezuela. Now, since the election, Maduro
has declared himself the winner. There have been massive protests
on the streets. I've been following it on x watching
in real time. I've watched his police officers take off
their uniforms because they don't want to go against the citizens.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
They're joining the protests.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I've watched soldiers reach out and high five protesters as
they go down the bus. Is this the moment that
we've been waiting for? Is this the beginning of a coup?
Because currently Maduro controls the courts, he controls the military,
he controls the police, he controls everything. But now the
military seems to have said, we're not going to defend
you anymore. Is this the beginning of the end of
(04:17):
Madurero's regime?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I would say it's complicated.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
It certainly feels like that, but feelings don't matter that
much when we assess foreign policy, even with someone you
know who has like connections with Venezuela. Part of the
work that I do, aside from my journalistm is with
the Center for a Secure Free Society led by Joseph Humeyer, which,
for your listeners, a very great thinker in all things
(04:47):
Labin American security. And when I talk to him, it
does seem like there is the moment is now, There's
never been a better moment for some sort of citizen
enforced militarily enforced us well, domestic change. But at the
same time, the Madure regime instructed by the Cubans and
(05:10):
by the Russians have been very effective at like having
loyalty tests. So we haven't seen any generals changed their
minds on Maduro. We haven't seen any of the of
the the upper rings say something different demonstrates support for
the Moon, the Solace and Marcarina Machado. What we have
(05:31):
seen you as you as you just explain, has been
you know, the people on the ground so right, the
cops or like the lower rank military officials, and that's something.
But to change your regimas it's not enough.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Oh, you're breaking my heart.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Win.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I was hoping this is it. I've been waiting for
this for so long.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
You said before we came on the air that you
are still in contact with a lot of people. Your
grandparents still live there. What are the people that you
talk to saying? What is the mood on the ground
among the people right now?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yes, so I have a lot of friends there that
I you know, my whole life and of course like
my grandparents and one of my aunts.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Well, I hope are doing okay.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
I know they're doing okay, at least for now.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Hopefully things don't get much uglier.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I wrote a piece for the Spectator the day of
the election, and it was amazing to see the empty
sassm One of my friends undress I don't say his
last name because I don't want him to get killed.
He woke up at three am and he put the
national anthem on to wake up his family. Because they
wanted to build really early. Everyone voted really early because
(06:40):
they wanted to make the election fraud proof, and honestly,
it kind of worked because in the eyes of the
international community, in the eyes of Venezuelan's it's impossible for
Madro to have one, right you see any single video.
If you don't believe your longing eyes, you know, that's
another thing. But it's impossible for Madro to have one
by a seven percent margin. Mark Rona Machado won well
(07:02):
in Mundo one by twenty to thirty percent of the built.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
That's just the truth.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Whoever doesn't believe that, it's I don't want to say
the word, but they're not very smart. So yeah, people
really excited and now slowly the hopes have deteriorated, but
there's still some remaining and it's it's been very interesting
to see how Marcream Machado managed to bring those hopes back,
(07:27):
because if I go back two three years ago, it
seemed like people were adapting to the misery, which is
one of the sad the saddest things about growing up
in a regime. Under a regime that has governed for
so long, people slowly lose motivation and it takes a
leader like Mark Kurunam Machado to bring that energy back.
(07:50):
And hopefully that energy doesn't disappear, because if it does,
and I don't want to be overly pessimistic, it may be,
you know, need the end. It may take like ten
more years to see something like this come up again.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Well, I mean history is rife with revolutions that took
years to come to fruition.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
It's not a one and done situation.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
What's interesting to me is that the point is, even
if the generals give the order, if the soldiers are
not willing to do it, if they're not willing to
act on those orders, it becomes harder and harder for
the military to manage these protests. Now, are the protests
still actively going on? What is the government doing to
shove them down?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yeah, so there's a couple of things. In the beginning
was you know, a classic intimidation and arrest, and then
there's been some shootings. The numbers are are unclear, but
we know that at least more than thirteen people have
died last time I checked, not that I have been
killed by armed forces, and we know that several have
(08:58):
been shot. There's likely dozens and dozens of people injured. Again,
in a country like Venezuela, getting the numbers quickly it
is hard, but there's plenty of videos and what we
also see we also saw and this was actually kind
(09:18):
of funny but kind of depressing. I was doing a
job interview actually and my dad interrupted me in the
middle of my soom colon. He went, there's a coup.
There's a coup, And I was said, what are you
talking about? And what ended up happening was that the
Defence Minister of Venezuela made an announcement saying that there
was a coup. But this was of course, like, this
(09:39):
was false, this is an exaggeration. So what they've been
trying to do. Yeah, they're trying to create this image
of Markria Machada some sort of fascistic agent. It's kind
of funny because they call her a fascist and then
you see her speak and it's like if she's a
fascist and.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I don't know why I am, yes exactly, I'll join
her there.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, they're trying to make it seem like there's uh.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, it's it's here. It's interesting they don't.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
They usually accuse the other side of doing what they
themselves do though.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Oh well, yeah, this is like a classic strategic move.
But this time around. It's especially funny because mark Crema
Mashat a like number one. You just see it in
her demeanor.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
She's a well spoken woman who actually has some like
social liberal views.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
She's not a fascist like you can.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
I guess you could call her like a neoliberal and
like a us paun like at least does make like
some sense, like she's not like, uh an anti American
like them. But if you call her a fascist them,
you don't know what a fascist is.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, but he just looks like one.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I appreciate your time today, one writes for The Spectator,
and he's a research fellow for the Latin American focused
Center for a Secure Free Society.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Thanks so much for making time for me.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Today, and I'm sure that we will be talking again,
and hopefully we will be talking about regime change in
Venezuela finally happening, hopefully, hopefully all right, Thanks one, I
appreciate you.
Joining me is I guess I'm extremely excited to talk
about one pee. I should have asked one how to
say your last name and I'll try it? VI S
mill VS.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
What is it?
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yeah, you got it?
Speaker 3 (00:12):
It?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Did I really?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I never get anybody's names right. It's kind of my
calling card as a talk show host. He spent the
first sixteen years of his life in Venezuela. He is
now part of a group of young voices and talking
a lot about what's happening over the last few days that.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
We've been talking about on the show. One. First of all,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Hey, thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Now, when did you immigrate to the United States?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, so, though I'm a real American, I was born
in the US, I grew up in Venezuela for the
first sixteen years of my life. So I was there
from the very beginning with Travis, although I was a
baby till the very end of Travis and the first
year sin Maduro. I officially left by the end of
(00:59):
two Thustan's sixteen, which was when I think it's the
last big protest we saw, right, because in the last
eight years we saw some protesting of course, but nothing
as big as what we were seeing today.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Well and today for people who've been living under a
rock for the last couple of days. There was an
election over the weekend, and even though exit polling and
other data and evidence show that the opposition candidate who
was the opposition candidate is a figurehead representing the actual
opposition candidate, who was a woman named Machado. So this
guy she was decued from running, she was disqualified from
(01:35):
running by the corrupt DUA regime because she was going
to win, and so this other man stepped in and said,
I'm going to run on your behalf.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
She's been campaigning with him.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
They are aligned, so a vote for him is essentially
a vote for Machado.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Can you tell me a.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Little bit about her, because you know her, you've appeared
at protests with her. Would what are the policy positions
that you would think she would adopt if she finally
gets into office.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, I do think that really got to get to
office before we even think about those. But if I
could dive into it for a bid, she's a classical liberal.
I know that. You know, there's many stances on like
what to do exactly to move forward as a nation.
The reality is that in the very specific context of Venezuela,
(02:22):
attracting capital as a priority, and that's why you've seen
very interestingly a rise of classical liberals slash libertarians in
South America. You saw with Malay unlike other regions of
the world where you've seen like a populist statist figures Rice.
And this is because Venezuela, like Argentina, has a very
(02:47):
very big state, has a very very big problem with inflation.
And that's why Mara Karina has become more appeeling day
by day. I sorry, why I go back to you,
if I could go back to history really quickly, if
you go back and look at every single other opposition candidate,
(03:07):
they were moderate left wingers, they were democratic socialists. They
didn't talk a great deal about privatizing companies, they didn't
talk a great deal about liberty. They had a Maduro
Tevista light message. Mark karna Is, I would say, the
first person to vocally make a case against socialism and
(03:31):
not just one against authority arianism.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
So that's why this is such an important election and
a sea change in Venezuela. Now, since the election, Maduro
has declared himself the winner. There have been massive protests
on the streets. I've been following it on x watching
in real time. I've watched his police officers take off
their uniforms because they don't want to go against the citizens.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
They're joining the protests.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I've watched soldiers reach out and high five protesters as
they go down the bus. Is this the moment that
we've been waiting for? Is this the beginning of a coup?
Because currently Maduro controls the courts, he controls the military,
he controls the police, he controls everything. But now the
military seems to have said, we're not going to defend
you anymore. Is this the beginning of the end of
(04:17):
Madurero's regime?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I would say it's complicated.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
It certainly feels like that, but feelings don't matter that
much when we assess foreign policy, even with someone you
know who has like connections with Venezuela. Part of the
work that I do, aside from my journalistm is with
the Center for a Secure Free Society led by Joseph Humeyer, which,
for your listeners, a very great thinker in all things
(04:47):
Labin American security. And when I talk to him, it
does seem like there is the moment is now, There's
never been a better moment for some sort of citizen
enforced militarily enforced us well, domestic change. But at the
same time, the Madure regime instructed by the Cubans and
(05:10):
by the Russians have been very effective at like having
loyalty tests. So we haven't seen any generals changed their
minds on Maduro. We haven't seen any of the of
the the upper rings say something different demonstrates support for
the Moon, the Solace and Marcarina Machado. What we have
(05:31):
seen you as you as you just explain, has been
you know, the people on the ground so right, the
cops or like the lower rank military officials, and that's something.
But to change your regimas it's not enough.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Oh, you're breaking my heart.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Win.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I was hoping this is it. I've been waiting for
this for so long.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
You said before we came on the air that you
are still in contact with a lot of people. Your
grandparents still live there. What are the people that you
talk to saying? What is the mood on the ground
among the people right now?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yes, so I have a lot of friends there that
I you know, my whole life and of course like
my grandparents and one of my aunts.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Well, I hope are doing okay.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
I know they're doing okay, at least for now.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Hopefully things don't get much uglier.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I wrote a piece for the Spectator the day of
the election, and it was amazing to see the empty
sassm One of my friends undress I don't say his
last name because I don't want him to get killed.
He woke up at three am and he put the
national anthem on to wake up his family. Because they
wanted to build really early. Everyone voted really early because
(06:40):
they wanted to make the election fraud proof, and honestly,
it kind of worked because in the eyes of the
international community, in the eyes of Venezuelan's it's impossible for
Madro to have one, right you see any single video.
If you don't believe your longing eyes, you know, that's
another thing. But it's impossible for Madro to have one
by a seven percent margin. Mark Rona Machado won well
(07:02):
in Mundo one by twenty to thirty percent of the built.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
That's just the truth.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Whoever doesn't believe that, it's I don't want to say
the word, but they're not very smart. So yeah, people
really excited and now slowly the hopes have deteriorated, but
there's still some remaining and it's it's been very interesting
to see how Marcream Machado managed to bring those hopes back,
(07:27):
because if I go back two three years ago, it
seemed like people were adapting to the misery, which is
one of the sad the saddest things about growing up
in a regime. Under a regime that has governed for
so long, people slowly lose motivation and it takes a
leader like Mark Kurunam Machado to bring that energy back.
(07:50):
And hopefully that energy doesn't disappear, because if it does,
and I don't want to be overly pessimistic, it may be,
you know, need the end. It may take like ten
more years to see something like this come up again.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Well, I mean history is rife with revolutions that took
years to come to fruition.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
It's not a one and done situation.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
What's interesting to me is that the point is, even
if the generals give the order, if the soldiers are
not willing to do it, if they're not willing to
act on those orders, it becomes harder and harder for
the military to manage these protests. Now, are the protests
still actively going on? What is the government doing to
shove them down?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yeah, so there's a couple of things. In the beginning
was you know, a classic intimidation and arrest, and then
there's been some shootings. The numbers are are unclear, but
we know that at least more than thirteen people have
died last time I checked, not that I have been
killed by armed forces, and we know that several have
(08:58):
been shot. There's likely dozens and dozens of people injured. Again,
in a country like Venezuela, getting the numbers quickly it
is hard, but there's plenty of videos and what we
also see we also saw and this was actually kind
(09:18):
of funny but kind of depressing. I was doing a
job interview actually and my dad interrupted me in the
middle of my soom colon. He went, there's a coup.
There's a coup, And I was said, what are you
talking about? And what ended up happening was that the
Defence Minister of Venezuela made an announcement saying that there
was a coup. But this was of course, like, this
(09:39):
was false, this is an exaggeration. So what they've been
trying to do. Yeah, they're trying to create this image
of Markria Machada some sort of fascistic agent. It's kind
of funny because they call her a fascist and then
you see her speak and it's like if she's a
fascist and.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I don't know why I am, yes exactly, I'll join
her there.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, they're trying to make it seem like there's uh.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, it's it's here. It's interesting they don't.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
They usually accuse the other side of doing what they
themselves do though.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Oh well, yeah, this is like a classic strategic move.
But this time around. It's especially funny because mark Crema
Mashat a like number one. You just see it in
her demeanor.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
She's a well spoken woman who actually has some like
social liberal views.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
She's not a fascist like you can.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
I guess you could call her like a neoliberal and
like a us paun like at least does make like
some sense, like she's not like, uh an anti American
like them. But if you call her a fascist them,
you don't know what a fascist is.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, but he just looks like one.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I appreciate your time today, one writes for The Spectator,
and he's a research fellow for the Latin American focused
Center for a Secure Free Society.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Thanks so much for making time for me.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Today, and I'm sure that we will be talking again,
and hopefully we will be talking about regime change in
Venezuela finally happening, hopefully, hopefully all right, Thanks one, I
appreciate you.
The Mandy Connell Podcast News
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