Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Big article today in Colorado Politics dot Com.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
The headline let me just read it to you.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Colorado budget faces one billion dollars shortfall. Atalys say it's
due to federal tax overhaul. Joining me now with perhaps
a different perspective, is Senator Barbara Kirkmeyer. She's been a
part of the Joint Budget Committee for the past few
years and has been sounding the alarm about the spending
that has been codified over the last few years by
(00:28):
Democrats who have taken one time dollars from arpun created
ongoing programs with them, and now I feel like the
chickens have come home to Ruth. So, first of all,
Senator Kirkmeyer, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Okay, we're gonna start off with something that happened at
the end of Ross Kiminski show, because I came in,
as I do at the end of every Ross Kiminski show,
and he was talking to the governor and Ross asked
a question, did you just grab the Governor's answer?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Zach, is that what you grabbed?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Wait?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Wait, hang on, I just want to say up the
question if you just grabbed the answer?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
So Ross asked him.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
He said, look, you know, your party is not really
known for cutting spending, So how do you plan to
wrangle your party into line to cut the kind of
spending that we need to cut Because we're in the
whole of billion dollars and this is what the governor
had to say.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
You're going to see really funny politics for us. You're
going to see Republicans advocating for more spending and less
cuts and bigger government. I mean, you're you know, yeah,
you're absolutely right. Democrats of the responsibility governing, they're gonna
have to agree to this one hundred percent. You will
also hear Republicans making the argument, don't cut this, don't
cut this, and then they don't have to add up
the numbers because they are not governing all of a sudden,
(01:38):
they don't want to cut anything, and the budget is
out of balance and they're big spenders. So you will
hear wacky politics out of this. There's no question you
can follow it, you know, if there's a special session
and beyond. But at the end of the day, I
hope it's bipartists in governing majority. But perhaps the Republicans
feel that you can score political points by opposing these
cuts because you know, they value healthier, they value schools.
So I don't know what to predicts. Ship absolutely enters
(02:01):
a picture in terms of how legislators pay. At the
end of the day, we just need to get it
done with the majority, whether it's all Democrats, whether it's
fly pars and whatever it is. A majority will need
to figure out how to say balance the budget, because
that is of course a customers requirement, a good one.
I would add one night support we should have balance
the budget now.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Senator Kirkmeyer, I know you're probably shocked to find out
that the Republicans in Colorado are the party of big
spending and big government. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I think that is funny. He's funny. He's a funny guy.
As sevest one liner.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
I've heard all day today, and it came from the
governor that we're not going to want to cut.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Seriously, it has not been the issue.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
With the minority party. I mean, he's one party in
the one party control party. They have control of every
you know, the House, the Senate, and the Governor's office.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Why haven't they fixed the budget?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
I mean in this last year when I kept saying
everybody needs to cut ten percent.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Every department should cut ten percent. We didn't get there.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
And a year when inflation was two point four percent,
we increased our general fund operating budget.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
By three point six percent. So an a year.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
After I lectured them on the state floor day after
day after day, I mean they got tired of hearing me,
we still increased our general fund operating budget, which is
what needs to be cut over inflation. So and that
would be on the Dems. That would be on them.
So we'll see. But if the governor's coming in thinking
he's going to cut K through twelve education.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
He needs to think again. This guy needs to.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Actually define what the priorities are and what they should be.
And in my book, that's K through twelve education, that's
Medicaid provider rates, it's neglected and abuse kids, and you know,
I mean the list kind of goes on from there.
But those are the top three that we should be funding.
Those are the top three things that this governor and
his budget request last year thought it was a good
idea to try and cut and keep a hold of
(03:44):
all these other projects that we just don't even need.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I bet he can't even list all the projects, but anyways,
and new programs that he started. But I would like
to he is going to have to cut.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Well, I'd like to ask what you just listed off
three priorities. What do you think the governor's priorities are
that he's demonstrated in his budget requests that are different
than education, Medicaid providers, and connected neglected and abuse kids.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Sure, I'll tell you what his priorities were in the
budget request back in November first of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
He wanted to fund that big, ugly bridge. You want to.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Fund a new take a book down at the state
Fair because you know it's O one hundred and fiftieth anniversary.
He wanted to cut rural health care, so that wasn't
a priority. He wanted to cut funding for neglected and
abuse kids, so obviously that's.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Not a priority.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
He came in cutting Medicaid provider rates, not a priority
for him. And he wanted to cut K through twelve
education by one hundred and.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Fifty million bucks. Again not a priority.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
So I'm thinking all that other stuff that we don't
really need are his priorities and what I think are
core critical components of government. A person who does know
how to govern talking here is what we should be funding.
So if he's going to call me a big spender
because I fund those things that are utmost important.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
To the people in the state of color you know,
like public safety, education, healthcare, then go ahead, call me
a big spender.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
He's right, we're not going to cut those, but we
can cut all those other things like that Office of
just Transition that needs.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
To go the all the new employees.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
You know, over the course of the last six seven years,
we have increased employees state employees in the state by
about one thousand employees year over year. Now, granted some
of those are within the Department of Higher Education, but
he's still signed off on it.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
When he signed that budget. We are, I mean, we're.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Close to seventy thousand new employees, our seventy thousand employees
in the state of Colorado.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
With at least seven thousand of them being new employees.
So he's the.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
One who's not going to want to cut Why didn't
he do a hiring friese you know it? And he
doesn't have to wait for the legislature. By the way,
while we have to budget to current law, he doesn't have.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
To spend a current law, he could cut spending.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Now, he can do what Bill Owens did and tell
all of his department heads, you're going to have to
cut ten percent this year, so start cutting now and
let me know where it's at kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
But he hasn't done that.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
In fact, yesterday in front of the legislative committee that
I wasn't actually invited to be at, but I went
in too. Anyways, Farandino, the governor's budget guy, Director Farandino,
said he's telling people they need to cut two point
five percent. How the heck does he think that's going
to get get us to a balanced budget. I mean,
that's not even close, just not even close. So we'll
(06:23):
see what they come up with. I'd like to see
what their plan is. And let's see what he's going
to say his priorities are, because if they aren't education,
medicaid provider rates, and neglected and abuse kids, then he's
in the wrong place.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
So let's talk about medicaid for a moment. Because we
have expanded medicaid. We are now we have a program
to cover illegal immigrants. We are allowing people up tw
one hundred and thirty eight percent of the poverty level
to sign up for Medicaid. We have able bodied, childless
people that are on Medicaid. None of these people were
actually intended to be covered by Medicaid. Medicaid is our
biggest expenditure in the state. I understand what do we
(06:57):
do with that? Is there a real potential to scale
back some of that expansion?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Well, first of.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
All, the program that one of the programs you were
talking about for undocumented immigrants, the covering all Colorado's and
then there's the omni soluted program, which are both health
insurance programs. I'm not sure why we need them both
in the first place, but they both are. Those are
fun for undocumented immigrants, and those are not actual Medicaid programs.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
And here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
I keep asking everybody what criteria, eligibility criteria did the
Feds change because I didn't see it in there. All
they've done is said that those people who are able
bodied and I mean keep in mind able bodied individuals
without dependents get to be on Medicaid and we're paying
for that. And all they said was you've got to
(07:42):
work at least part time, or go to school or volunteer.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
You've got to do something.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
And the reality is from what I hear about sixty
percent of those individuals already do have a job. So again,
you know, we went through this, Our state went through this,
so did the rest of the states went through this
went back in like nineteen ninety six when Bill Clinton
was president and we did welfare reform and added on
work participation rates, required individual responsibility contracts of people who
(08:10):
are on welfare, and said you've got to go get
to work, or you've got to go to school, and
you could only be on temporary aid to needy families
for two years at a time, five years as a lifetime.
We figured that out, and we didn't need three thousand
new employees. Like the Executive Director of Healthcare Policy and
Finances trying to say, so, you know, maybe they should
(08:30):
go take a look back in history and instead of
repeating their history, go back and repeat somebody's history that
actually worked. Because right now, Healthcare Policy and Finance should
be looking at that Combined Benefits Management Program, which is
the computer system that hasn't worked since inception, So they
should be going back and looking at that to try
and make that work.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And they should look at.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
The application process because right now what I'm hearing is like,
I don't know, I'm probably going to exaggerate here, but
it's like forty pages or it's so got off along
that people can't get through it.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
So how about the.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Executive director, instead of going out and scaring people all
over the place, just go fix that application process, go
fix the redetermination.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
So it's a heck of a lot quicker and smoother.
I mean, we've got computers, we've got the Internet. We
got to be able to figure this out.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
So where would you suggest they start. You've got to
cut a billion dollars. You've got a billion dollar shortfall.
What's on the Barb Kirkmeyer shopping block to get us
to a billion dollars quickly?
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Well, this is where it's going to be painful, because
the places that we need to look at are going
to be tax credits and then new programs or programs
that just aren't working. And this is where the Democrats
have a really difficult time of I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
They wring their hands. I mean, seriously, Mandy.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Last year in the Joint and Budget Committee, it took
four hours to cut one hundred thousand dollars out of
the Department of Agriculture's budget. Four out and we were
one point two billion dollars short last year in our
know that we had to cut in our budget, but
it took four hours for them. And I finally if
I said, oh, oh my god, we're never going to
get done afe you people don't learn how to make
a decision.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
But that was the Department of Agriculture. I'm like, you
know what.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
And we waited till the very end before we took
the long bill across the street to the other ninety
four legislators to vote on the school finance, to vote
on higher education, and to vote.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
On the medicaid provider rates. I think we should do
those three things. First.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
We should set our budget and then determine our budget
around them and start cutting programs that you know, that
just aren't necessary anymore, or that maybe we.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Just can't afford.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
And so we're gonna have to look at programs, and
we're going to look at some of.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Those tax credits.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Because here's what I heard yesterday in the hearing that
the Democrat legislative leadership had and the two minority leaders
were there as well, so the two Republicans basically I
heard this, what are we going to do about those
crazy Republicans back in d C. They have the audacity
to tell people, we're going to cut your taxes and
give you a tax break, and because of that, our
(10:57):
revenues are going to be less so and this was
ker McCluskey who said this, basically, so, because of those
corporations are getting the tax break, we're going to have
to figure out how to raise taxes to get.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Our revenues back up.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
So those crazy Republicans in DC are saying we're going
to cut taxes and give everybody a tax break, and
those crazy Democrats.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
In Colorado are saying, oh, not.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
So fast, We're just going to increase your taxes. That
is not something that Republicans will vote for. The governor's
correct on that.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
So let me ask this question specifically about that about
raising taxes, because you are part of a lawsuit that
has just been filed about the move that was done.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
In another bill that essentially.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Says, even if you get a break on overtime, we're
still going to count that as taxable income because we
don't want to lose those tax dollars. You're arguing that
that's a tax increase in a violation of Tabor correct.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Correct And it is a tax increase.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Anytime you have a change in tax policy that increases
revenue to the state, you're supposed to go to a
vote of the people.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Anytime that you have a tax change that.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Increases revenue, you're supposed to go to a vote of
the people. And it specifically says in that statute, and
it was House Build twenty five, twelve ninety six, it
says that you're right that if the federal government exempts
taxes on overtime, we are going to add them back on.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
We are going to add on a tax.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
I think it's pretty clear that they should have gone
to back gone to a vote of the people to
see if they wanted to tax their overtime. Sorry, I
just have to laugh about it because it's crazy to
me that they think that's okay. You know, like they
can't figure out how to manage a budget, They can't
figure out how to govern, they don't know what their
priorities are. This is one party control. They could do
(12:42):
anything they wanted to do because it is one party.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
They've got the majority. I'm in the minority.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Yeah, they've gotten us in this budget mess all by themselves.
The first thing they did is they blamed COVID. Remember,
I mean, we got all this money. It was supposed
to be for one time spending, but gosh, we just
could and help ourselves. So we turned it into ongoing spending,
and we started overspending and overspending and overspending. And then
because we can't we can't blame COVID forever, they started
(13:11):
blaming Tabor.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Tabor's the problem, you know. Tabor's why we don't have
nice things in government.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
That's what Senator Jeff Bridges used to say all the time,
and he finally stopped saying it because I would retort back, Tabor.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Is why the people could have nice things.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
You know.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Tabor is what limits government, and that's what we need.
If we didn't have tabor, oh my gosh, we'd be
even in worse shape.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
But so then they blamed it on Tabor. Well, now
they figured out, you know, in our.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
June forecast, they already figured out we were going to
have to make.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Cuts to tax credits and cuts to programs. We already
had this discussion. This was not new, this was all
prior to the federal bill passing.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
And now it's like, oh wait a minute, why miss
this opportunity.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Let's just blame it on the Feds.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Let's blame it on the Republicans back there, because silly,
crazy Republicans are just trying to give you.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
A tax relief.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
So I'm gonna use it later and see if I
can make a map of which states are now facing
a budget shortfall because of the big beautiful bill. Let's
just assume that that's correct. I bet you there's a
bunch of states that aren't.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
That's the thing.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
It's like, why are we in this pickle when other
states are not in this pickle? And I think that's
the big thing? Or why not ask why not have
the Republican leadership go and say, look, we need ten
percent from every department. Can you guys find it. We'd
love for you to provide for US programs, redundancies, whatever
you think is not working, whatever we can take. Give
(14:34):
us ten percent. If we find out we don't need
ten percent, we'll give you the extra money. But why
not take a more proactive stance if the governor's not
willing to do it. I only say this because I
have a friend who worked for a private company. It
was a large company, but as a family owned and
they had a couple really rough years, and the owner
of the company called everybody in for a meeting and
said exactly that, guys, I need ten percent of your budget.
(14:57):
You know how you spend your money better than I do.
You figure out where we can take that from.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
And everybody.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Now it's a private company, so it's a little bit
different in terms of incentive. But everybody went back to
their departments and said, where do we have ten percent?
They then provided them the list and it was painless because.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Everybody had buy in.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
You know, everybody was already on board with with what
we needed to do exactly.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
So I did that at the Joint Budget Committee and
I said, look, everybody, you just need to cut ten
percent because here was the thing.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
You know, we were trying to find one point two billion.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Part of that was the three hundred and fifty million
from the you know, ballid measure for back the Blue,
the Prop one thirty, and you know, I figured out
a process for that to make sure that, you know,
we were able to work that into our budget. But
I told everybody in in the sessions that we were having,
we have hearings first, we have briefings at the Joint
(15:48):
Budget Committee, with.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Departments, then we have hearings, and then we have.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Figure setting the whole way through. I'm like, you guys
need to cut ten percent.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
I told judicial.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
You know there's the judicial branch like no, no, no,
we need new judges, we need to do this, we need.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
All this stuff. I mean, they wanted to increase their
budget skyrocketed. I lectured them all. I'm telling you, I said,
we need ten percent cut.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
They wouldn't come back in and you know what, again,
I'm on the minority.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
It's me and.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Representive Taggart were the only two Republicans on a six
member joint Budget Committee, and the other four Dems were
like no, they just wouldn't make all those cuts.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
They just couldn't make the cuts. Even this year.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
On that last day before we were again closing out
the budget and bringing it over to the other ninety
four members, I told them all, I said, you realized
you've looked at the overview, right you realize that we
have one time cuts in here, one time spending at
least a half billion dollars that I can add up.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
In my head right now.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
That's we're going to have to add it on to
that next year and We're gonna have to find that
next year, and there aren't going to be any more
couch cushions to look under. There's no more shellgame shenanigans
that you get to do with the budget. We are
going to have to cut programs or tax credits, and
you all are going to have to come to the
table and start answering where you want to make those cuts,
(17:03):
because everything I propose, they would just, you know, say, yeah,
we don't really want to do that.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
To my earlier point, I know you're in the minority,
and I'm not trying to beat you up, but I
would love to see Republican leadership kind of go to
the Democrats and say, look, we don't want to make
these unpopular cuts. We don't want to cut things that
are going to be detrimental, So why not get the
buy in from these different departments. It takes the pressure
off of us of having to make these difficult decisions
(17:31):
when we're asking people in these various departments to cut
the dead weight. And you know, as well as I do, Barb,
in every operation, whether it's a private company or it
is a public organization, there is dead weight that can go.
And that's what i'd like to see go first or
ub Kirkmaier.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I don't envy you. I agree, I don't envy you.
This special session, I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, yeah, I think it'd be amazing. So I'm going
to call Rose and see if i can put that
our ear because at a bare minimum, one of the
things I want to see out of the Republican Party
in the state. And we've got new leadership in place,
and from what I understand, there's a pretty intensive focus
on winning elections, not just being ideological pure or or
(18:13):
you know, making sure that we're saying the right things.
They really want to win elections, and in order to
do that, we got to demonstrate to the people of
Colorado that we have good ideas, right, that there are
good ideas, and we've got to put them out there,
get them in front of people, make sure they're heard,
and if they don't get taken up, well, there's not
a whole lot you can do about it because of
the counts in the House, in the Senate.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
But there is this separation between the branches, right between
the legislative branch and the administrative branch, but even within
with the budget, when it comes across the Street. We
all the legislators have the opportunity to amend the budget
and put their fingerprints on the budget, and Republicans do
come up with amendments and say, you know, let's cut
this and cut different things. Like Senator Pelton said, why
(18:57):
aren't we cutting our you know, legislative increase, Why aren't
we cutting that second salary to the lieutenant governor. I mean,
we had all sorts of areas to cut the budget,
and the Dems all vote against it.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, and so we.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Just can't get it through, you know, and the Governor's office,
they're his departments. They don't I mean, I'm not saying
they don't try to work with us, but they don't
have to.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
And certainly when it comes to the budget, everything's a secret.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Even that meeting yesterday with the leadership, you know, all
that information that was there, the Democrats had it before.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
The Republicans did, Like we got it at the meeting.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Most of them you could tell by the scripted messaging
and the scripted questions that they.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Had it at least a couple of days in advance.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
The newspaper had it in advance before anybody else. I mean,
so we don't even get it. So they do a
lot of stuff behind closed doors. They talked just to
amongst themselves. They don't want to include the Minority Party
because again one party control, they don't have to, so
they just go off on their merry little way doing
whatever they want to do.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Over spending.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
It's like a Senator Rich said at one point, she goes,
we don't need a special session, we need an intervention
to help them with their addiction to overspending.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I thought, I'm going to use that.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Janets everywhere I can, because that is it exactly. And again,
we can try, we can try to have meetings. I mean,
just for example, I asked Senator Bridges, who is the
chair of.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
The Joint Budget Committee. I asked him.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Yesterday in a text, like why are we not having
we meaning the Joint Budget Committee? Why are we not
having this type of hearing? Why aren't we getting this information?
We're the ones who deals with this issue. It's in statute,
it's supposed to be us. Why aren't we doing this?
He doesn't respond. Then I said, can't we have a meeting?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Doesn't respond. He has not responded to me.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
So I told Minority leader since them this morning and
I said, Look, if he doesn't respond by.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Tomorrow noon, I say we schedule our own meeting.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Invite the chief economists, you know from Legislative Council Services.
We invite Director Fernandino from OspB. We invite Craig Harper
from the as the director of the Joint Budget Committee,
and a few other people, probably Commissioner Conway the Division
of Insurance, and we ask them our questions. So I
don't need them.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
We don't need them to give us the presentation. Again.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
We need to be able to ask them questions and
start drilling down on this as to what can we
really start cutting.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
And so that's where we're that's where we are headed.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
If if we can't get a hearing with the Joint
Budget Committee, then we're just going to do our own thing.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Senator Barb Kirkmeyer is my guest. I will be talking
to you, I hope through this special session, and boys,
this one's going to be fun to watch. Thank you
for making time for me today.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yes, absolutely, thank you, and you have a great day.
And let's keep go cutting that budget
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Aim into that that Senator Barb Kirkmeyer, we'll be right
back
Big article today in Colorado Politics dot Com.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
The headline let me just read it to you.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Colorado budget faces one billion dollars shortfall. Atalys say it's
due to federal tax overhaul. Joining me now with perhaps
a different perspective, is Senator Barbara Kirkmeyer. She's been a
part of the Joint Budget Committee for the past few
years and has been sounding the alarm about the spending
that has been codified over the last few years by
(00:28):
Democrats who have taken one time dollars from arpun created
ongoing programs with them, and now I feel like the
chickens have come home to Ruth. So, first of all,
Senator Kirkmeyer, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Okay, we're gonna start off with something that happened at
the end of Ross Kiminski show, because I came in,
as I do at the end of every Ross Kiminski show,
and he was talking to the governor and Ross asked
a question, did you just grab the Governor's answer?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Zach, is that what you grabbed?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Wait?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Wait, hang on, I just want to say up the
question if you just grabbed the answer?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
So Ross asked him.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
He said, look, you know, your party is not really
known for cutting spending, So how do you plan to
wrangle your party into line to cut the kind of
spending that we need to cut Because we're in the
whole of billion dollars and this is what the governor
had to say.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
You're going to see really funny politics for us. You're
going to see Republicans advocating for more spending and less
cuts and bigger government. I mean, you're you know, yeah,
you're absolutely right. Democrats of the responsibility governing, they're gonna
have to agree to this one hundred percent. You will
also hear Republicans making the argument, don't cut this, don't
cut this, and then they don't have to add up
the numbers because they are not governing all of a sudden,
(01:38):
they don't want to cut anything, and the budget is
out of balance and they're big spenders. So you will
hear wacky politics out of this. There's no question you
can follow it, you know, if there's a special session
and beyond. But at the end of the day, I
hope it's bipartists in governing majority. But perhaps the Republicans
feel that you can score political points by opposing these
cuts because you know, they value healthier, they value schools.
So I don't know what to predicts. Ship absolutely enters
(02:01):
a picture in terms of how legislators pay. At the
end of the day, we just need to get it
done with the majority, whether it's all Democrats, whether it's
fly pars and whatever it is. A majority will need
to figure out how to say balance the budget, because
that is of course a customers requirement, a good one.
I would add one night support we should have balance
the budget now.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Senator Kirkmeyer, I know you're probably shocked to find out
that the Republicans in Colorado are the party of big
spending and big government. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I think that is funny. He's funny. He's a funny guy.
As sevest one liner.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
I've heard all day today, and it came from the
governor that we're not going to want to cut.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Seriously, it has not been the issue.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
With the minority party. I mean, he's one party in
the one party control party. They have control of every
you know, the House, the Senate, and the Governor's office.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Why haven't they fixed the budget?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
I mean in this last year when I kept saying
everybody needs to cut ten percent.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Every department should cut ten percent. We didn't get there.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
And a year when inflation was two point four percent,
we increased our general fund operating budget.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
By three point six percent. So an a year.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
After I lectured them on the state floor day after
day after day, I mean they got tired of hearing me,
we still increased our general fund operating budget, which is
what needs to be cut over inflation. So and that
would be on the Dems. That would be on them.
So we'll see. But if the governor's coming in thinking
he's going to cut K through twelve education.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
He needs to think again. This guy needs to.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Actually define what the priorities are and what they should be.
And in my book, that's K through twelve education, that's
Medicaid provider rates, it's neglected and abuse kids, and you know,
I mean the list kind of goes on from there.
But those are the top three that we should be funding.
Those are the top three things that this governor and
his budget request last year thought it was a good
idea to try and cut and keep a hold of
(03:44):
all these other projects that we just don't even need.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I bet he can't even list all the projects, but anyways,
and new programs that he started. But I would like
to he is going to have to cut.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Well, I'd like to ask what you just listed off
three priorities. What do you think the governor's priorities are
that he's demonstrated in his budget requests that are different
than education, Medicaid providers, and connected neglected and abuse kids.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Sure, I'll tell you what his priorities were in the
budget request back in November first of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
He wanted to fund that big, ugly bridge. You want to.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Fund a new take a book down at the state
Fair because you know it's O one hundred and fiftieth anniversary.
He wanted to cut rural health care, so that wasn't
a priority. He wanted to cut funding for neglected and
abuse kids, so obviously that's.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Not a priority.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
He came in cutting Medicaid provider rates, not a priority
for him. And he wanted to cut K through twelve
education by one hundred and.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Fifty million bucks. Again not a priority.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
So I'm thinking all that other stuff that we don't
really need are his priorities and what I think are
core critical components of government. A person who does know
how to govern talking here is what we should be funding.
So if he's going to call me a big spender
because I fund those things that are utmost important.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
To the people in the state of color you know,
like public safety, education, healthcare, then go ahead, call me
a big spender.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
He's right, we're not going to cut those, but we
can cut all those other things like that Office of
just Transition that needs.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
To go the all the new employees.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
You know, over the course of the last six seven years,
we have increased employees state employees in the state by
about one thousand employees year over year. Now, granted some
of those are within the Department of Higher Education, but
he's still signed off on it.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
When he signed that budget. We are, I mean, we're.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Close to seventy thousand new employees, our seventy thousand employees
in the state of Colorado.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
With at least seven thousand of them being new employees.
So he's the.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
One who's not going to want to cut Why didn't
he do a hiring friese you know it? And he
doesn't have to wait for the legislature. By the way,
while we have to budget to current law, he doesn't have.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
To spend a current law, he could cut spending.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Now, he can do what Bill Owens did and tell
all of his department heads, you're going to have to
cut ten percent this year, so start cutting now and
let me know where it's at kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
But he hasn't done that.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
In fact, yesterday in front of the legislative committee that
I wasn't actually invited to be at, but I went
in too. Anyways, Farandino, the governor's budget guy, Director Farandino,
said he's telling people they need to cut two point
five percent. How the heck does he think that's going
to get get us to a balanced budget. I mean,
that's not even close, just not even close. So we'll
(06:23):
see what they come up with. I'd like to see
what their plan is. And let's see what he's going
to say his priorities are, because if they aren't education,
medicaid provider rates, and neglected and abuse kids, then he's
in the wrong place.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
So let's talk about medicaid for a moment. Because we
have expanded medicaid. We are now we have a program
to cover illegal immigrants. We are allowing people up tw
one hundred and thirty eight percent of the poverty level
to sign up for Medicaid. We have able bodied, childless
people that are on Medicaid. None of these people were
actually intended to be covered by Medicaid. Medicaid is our
biggest expenditure in the state. I understand what do we
(06:57):
do with that? Is there a real potential to scale
back some of that expansion?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Well, first of.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
All, the program that one of the programs you were
talking about for undocumented immigrants, the covering all Colorado's and
then there's the omni soluted program, which are both health
insurance programs. I'm not sure why we need them both
in the first place, but they both are. Those are
fun for undocumented immigrants, and those are not actual Medicaid programs.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
And here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
I keep asking everybody what criteria, eligibility criteria did the
Feds change because I didn't see it in there. All
they've done is said that those people who are able
bodied and I mean keep in mind able bodied individuals
without dependents get to be on Medicaid and we're paying
for that. And all they said was you've got to
(07:42):
work at least part time, or go to school or volunteer.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
You've got to do something.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
And the reality is from what I hear about sixty
percent of those individuals already do have a job. So again,
you know, we went through this, Our state went through this,
so did the rest of the states went through this
went back in like nineteen ninety six when Bill Clinton
was president and we did welfare reform and added on
work participation rates, required individual responsibility contracts of people who
(08:10):
are on welfare, and said you've got to go get
to work, or you've got to go to school, and
you could only be on temporary aid to needy families
for two years at a time, five years as a lifetime.
We figured that out, and we didn't need three thousand
new employees. Like the Executive Director of Healthcare Policy and
Finances trying to say, so, you know, maybe they should
(08:30):
go take a look back in history and instead of
repeating their history, go back and repeat somebody's history that
actually worked. Because right now, Healthcare Policy and Finance should
be looking at that Combined Benefits Management Program, which is
the computer system that hasn't worked since inception, So they
should be going back and looking at that to try
and make that work.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And they should look at.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
The application process because right now what I'm hearing is like,
I don't know, I'm probably going to exaggerate here, but
it's like forty pages or it's so got off along
that people can't get through it.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
So how about the.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Executive director, instead of going out and scaring people all
over the place, just go fix that application process, go
fix the redetermination.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
So it's a heck of a lot quicker and smoother.
I mean, we've got computers, we've got the Internet. We
got to be able to figure this out.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
So where would you suggest they start. You've got to
cut a billion dollars. You've got a billion dollar shortfall.
What's on the Barb Kirkmeyer shopping block to get us
to a billion dollars quickly?
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Well, this is where it's going to be painful, because
the places that we need to look at are going
to be tax credits and then new programs or programs
that just aren't working. And this is where the Democrats
have a really difficult time of I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
They wring their hands. I mean, seriously, Mandy.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Last year in the Joint and Budget Committee, it took
four hours to cut one hundred thousand dollars out of
the Department of Agriculture's budget. Four out and we were
one point two billion dollars short last year in our
know that we had to cut in our budget, but
it took four hours for them. And I finally if
I said, oh, oh my god, we're never going to
get done afe you people don't learn how to make
a decision.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
But that was the Department of Agriculture. I'm like, you
know what.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
And we waited till the very end before we took
the long bill across the street to the other ninety
four legislators to vote on the school finance, to vote
on higher education, and to vote.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
On the medicaid provider rates. I think we should do
those three things. First.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
We should set our budget and then determine our budget
around them and start cutting programs that you know, that
just aren't necessary anymore, or that maybe we.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Just can't afford.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
And so we're gonna have to look at programs, and
we're going to look at some of.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Those tax credits.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Because here's what I heard yesterday in the hearing that
the Democrat legislative leadership had and the two minority leaders
were there as well, so the two Republicans basically I
heard this, what are we going to do about those
crazy Republicans back in d C. They have the audacity
to tell people, we're going to cut your taxes and
give you a tax break, and because of that, our
(10:57):
revenues are going to be less so and this was
ker McCluskey who said this, basically, so, because of those
corporations are getting the tax break, we're going to have
to figure out how to raise taxes to get.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Our revenues back up.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
So those crazy Republicans in DC are saying we're going
to cut taxes and give everybody a tax break, and
those crazy Democrats.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
In Colorado are saying, oh, not.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
So fast, We're just going to increase your taxes. That
is not something that Republicans will vote for. The governor's
correct on that.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
So let me ask this question specifically about that about
raising taxes, because you are part of a lawsuit that
has just been filed about the move that was done.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
In another bill that essentially.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Says, even if you get a break on overtime, we're
still going to count that as taxable income because we
don't want to lose those tax dollars. You're arguing that
that's a tax increase in a violation of Tabor correct.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Correct And it is a tax increase.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Anytime you have a change in tax policy that increases
revenue to the state, you're supposed to go to a
vote of the people.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Anytime that you have a tax change that.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Increases revenue, you're supposed to go to a vote of
the people. And it specifically says in that statute, and
it was House Build twenty five, twelve ninety six, it
says that you're right that if the federal government exempts
taxes on overtime, we are going to add them back on.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
We are going to add on a tax.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
I think it's pretty clear that they should have gone
to back gone to a vote of the people to
see if they wanted to tax their overtime. Sorry, I
just have to laugh about it because it's crazy to
me that they think that's okay. You know, like they
can't figure out how to manage a budget, They can't
figure out how to govern, they don't know what their
priorities are. This is one party control. They could do
(12:42):
anything they wanted to do because it is one party.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
They've got the majority. I'm in the minority.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Yeah, they've gotten us in this budget mess all by themselves.
The first thing they did is they blamed COVID. Remember,
I mean, we got all this money. It was supposed
to be for one time spending, but gosh, we just
could and help ourselves. So we turned it into ongoing spending,
and we started overspending and overspending and overspending. And then
because we can't we can't blame COVID forever, they started
(13:11):
blaming Tabor.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Tabor's the problem, you know. Tabor's why we don't have
nice things in government.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
That's what Senator Jeff Bridges used to say all the time,
and he finally stopped saying it because I would retort back, Tabor.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Is why the people could have nice things.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
You know.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Tabor is what limits government, and that's what we need.
If we didn't have tabor, oh my gosh, we'd be
even in worse shape.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
But so then they blamed it on Tabor. Well, now
they figured out, you know, in our.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
June forecast, they already figured out we were going to
have to make.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Cuts to tax credits and cuts to programs. We already
had this discussion. This was not new, this was all
prior to the federal bill passing.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
And now it's like, oh wait a minute, why miss
this opportunity.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Let's just blame it on the Feds.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Let's blame it on the Republicans back there, because silly,
crazy Republicans are just trying to give you.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
A tax relief.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
So I'm gonna use it later and see if I
can make a map of which states are now facing
a budget shortfall because of the big beautiful bill. Let's
just assume that that's correct. I bet you there's a
bunch of states that aren't.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
That's the thing.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
It's like, why are we in this pickle when other
states are not in this pickle? And I think that's
the big thing? Or why not ask why not have
the Republican leadership go and say, look, we need ten
percent from every department. Can you guys find it. We'd
love for you to provide for US programs, redundancies, whatever
you think is not working, whatever we can take. Give
(14:34):
us ten percent. If we find out we don't need
ten percent, we'll give you the extra money. But why
not take a more proactive stance if the governor's not
willing to do it. I only say this because I
have a friend who worked for a private company. It
was a large company, but as a family owned and
they had a couple really rough years, and the owner
of the company called everybody in for a meeting and
said exactly that, guys, I need ten percent of your budget.
(14:57):
You know how you spend your money better than I do.
You figure out where we can take that from.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
And everybody.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Now it's a private company, so it's a little bit
different in terms of incentive. But everybody went back to
their departments and said, where do we have ten percent?
They then provided them the list and it was painless because.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Everybody had buy in.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
You know, everybody was already on board with with what
we needed to do exactly.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
So I did that at the Joint Budget Committee and
I said, look, everybody, you just need to cut ten
percent because here was the thing.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
You know, we were trying to find one point two billion.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Part of that was the three hundred and fifty million
from the you know, ballid measure for back the Blue,
the Prop one thirty, and you know, I figured out
a process for that to make sure that, you know,
we were able to work that into our budget. But
I told everybody in in the sessions that we were having,
we have hearings first, we have briefings at the Joint
(15:48):
Budget Committee, with.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Departments, then we have hearings, and then we have.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Figure setting the whole way through. I'm like, you guys
need to cut ten percent.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
I told judicial.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
You know there's the judicial branch like no, no, no,
we need new judges, we need to do this, we need.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
All this stuff. I mean, they wanted to increase their
budget skyrocketed. I lectured them all. I'm telling you, I said,
we need ten percent cut.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
They wouldn't come back in and you know what, again,
I'm on the minority.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
It's me and.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Representive Taggart were the only two Republicans on a six
member joint Budget Committee, and the other four Dems were
like no, they just wouldn't make all those cuts.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
They just couldn't make the cuts. Even this year.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
On that last day before we were again closing out
the budget and bringing it over to the other ninety
four members, I told them all, I said, you realized
you've looked at the overview, right you realize that we
have one time cuts in here, one time spending at
least a half billion dollars that I can add up.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
In my head right now.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
That's we're going to have to add it on to
that next year and We're gonna have to find that
next year, and there aren't going to be any more
couch cushions to look under. There's no more shellgame shenanigans
that you get to do with the budget. We are
going to have to cut programs or tax credits, and
you all are going to have to come to the
table and start answering where you want to make those cuts,
(17:03):
because everything I propose, they would just, you know, say, yeah,
we don't really want to do that.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
To my earlier point, I know you're in the minority,
and I'm not trying to beat you up, but I
would love to see Republican leadership kind of go to
the Democrats and say, look, we don't want to make
these unpopular cuts. We don't want to cut things that
are going to be detrimental, So why not get the
buy in from these different departments. It takes the pressure
off of us of having to make these difficult decisions
(17:31):
when we're asking people in these various departments to cut
the dead weight. And you know, as well as I do, Barb,
in every operation, whether it's a private company or it
is a public organization, there is dead weight that can go.
And that's what i'd like to see go first or
ub Kirkmaier.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I don't envy you. I agree, I don't envy you.
This special session, I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, yeah, I think it'd be amazing. So I'm going
to call Rose and see if i can put that
our ear because at a bare minimum, one of the
things I want to see out of the Republican Party
in the state. And we've got new leadership in place,
and from what I understand, there's a pretty intensive focus
on winning elections, not just being ideological pure or or
(18:13):
you know, making sure that we're saying the right things.
They really want to win elections, and in order to
do that, we got to demonstrate to the people of
Colorado that we have good ideas, right, that there are
good ideas, and we've got to put them out there,
get them in front of people, make sure they're heard,
and if they don't get taken up, well, there's not
a whole lot you can do about it because of
the counts in the House, in the Senate.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
But there is this separation between the branches, right between
the legislative branch and the administrative branch, but even within
with the budget, when it comes across the Street. We
all the legislators have the opportunity to amend the budget
and put their fingerprints on the budget, and Republicans do
come up with amendments and say, you know, let's cut
this and cut different things. Like Senator Pelton said, why
(18:57):
aren't we cutting our you know, legislative increase, Why aren't
we cutting that second salary to the lieutenant governor. I mean,
we had all sorts of areas to cut the budget,
and the Dems all vote against it.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, and so we.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Just can't get it through, you know, and the Governor's office,
they're his departments. They don't I mean, I'm not saying
they don't try to work with us, but they don't
have to.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
And certainly when it comes to the budget, everything's a secret.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Even that meeting yesterday with the leadership, you know, all
that information that was there, the Democrats had it before.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
The Republicans did, Like we got it at the meeting.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Most of them you could tell by the scripted messaging
and the scripted questions that they.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Had it at least a couple of days in advance.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
The newspaper had it in advance before anybody else. I mean,
so we don't even get it. So they do a
lot of stuff behind closed doors. They talked just to
amongst themselves. They don't want to include the Minority Party
because again one party control, they don't have to, so
they just go off on their merry little way doing
whatever they want to do.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Over spending.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
It's like a Senator Rich said at one point, she goes,
we don't need a special session, we need an intervention
to help them with their addiction to overspending.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I thought, I'm going to use that.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Janets everywhere I can, because that is it exactly. And again,
we can try, we can try to have meetings. I mean,
just for example, I asked Senator Bridges, who is the
chair of.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
The Joint Budget Committee. I asked him.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Yesterday in a text, like why are we not having
we meaning the Joint Budget Committee? Why are we not
having this type of hearing? Why aren't we getting this information?
We're the ones who deals with this issue. It's in statute,
it's supposed to be us. Why aren't we doing this?
He doesn't respond. Then I said, can't we have a meeting?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Doesn't respond. He has not responded to me.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
So I told Minority leader since them this morning and
I said, Look, if he doesn't respond by.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Tomorrow noon, I say we schedule our own meeting.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Invite the chief economists, you know from Legislative Council Services.
We invite Director Fernandino from OspB. We invite Craig Harper
from the as the director of the Joint Budget Committee,
and a few other people, probably Commissioner Conway the Division
of Insurance, and we ask them our questions. So I
don't need them.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
We don't need them to give us the presentation. Again.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
We need to be able to ask them questions and
start drilling down on this as to what can we
really start cutting.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
And so that's where we're that's where we are headed.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
If if we can't get a hearing with the Joint
Budget Committee, then we're just going to do our own thing.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Senator Barb Kirkmeyer is my guest. I will be talking
to you, I hope through this special session, and boys,
this one's going to be fun to watch. Thank you
for making time for me today.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yes, absolutely, thank you, and you have a great day.
And let's keep go cutting that budget
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Aim into that that Senator Barb Kirkmeyer, we'll be right
back
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