08-05-25 FULL SHOW - Jimmy Sengenberger in for Mandy Connell

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Mandy Connell Show is sponsored by Belle and Pollock
Accident and injury Lawyers.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
No, it's Mandy Connell.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
Ninem God.

Speaker 4 (00:18):
Can they through.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Many Connell keeping sad thing?

Speaker 4 (00:29):
Good afternoon, Jimmy sangen Berger, back in the saddle today
for Mandy Connell, and it is great to be with
you once more, as we have so much to talk
about and dive into a couple of great guest conversations,
including attorney Matthew Berengers, representing the family of Luis Garcia,

(00:54):
a high school student who before the inside East High
School shooting in March of twenty twenty three. In February
of twenty twenty three, outside of East High School, a
seventeen year old student named Louis Garcia was shot and

(01:17):
later died, and the family of young Louis Garcia sued
Denver Public Schools and that case was dismissed last week. Unfortunate.
We will talk with Attorney Matthew Barnger, representing Louis Garcia's
family at the top of the hour. He's due to

(01:38):
join us in studio as we talk about this very
important case, the state of school safety in Denver Public schools,
it's a little better, but there is so much more
that needs to be done, and the district has somehow
managed to just continually dodge account of bild. That same

(02:01):
thing seems to happen for folks at Denver City Hall
who keep dodging accountability for their failures, incessant, rampant, unending,
NonStop failures. And there's also a lack of accountability for
the Denver Post for there. I mean, I really think

(02:24):
the right descriptor for last Fridays that was it Friday,
Thursday or Friday the article that came out about do
Better Denver and doxing three sources for that citizen journalist
outlet that you can only describe it as a hit piece,
and I think that is right. That is not journalism.

(02:47):
In my column today, do Better Denver under attack from
the media, I break this down and how really this
is not journalism. It's a witch hunt. If you're on
from familiar, Do Better Denver is a social media account
on both Instagram and x that exposes, through videos and

(03:10):
other informational materials, things that are happening in Denver, really
happening in Denver, and they've been gaining a lot of
traction and have successfully helped to embarrass the Johnston administration
Mayor Mike Johnston throughout the failures to address so many

(03:34):
issues which we'll touch on here in a moment, that
are going on and seem to be incessant in Denver. Now,
I first heard of do Better Denver from Victoria, my
now fiance, who had started sending me Instagram reels from
do Better Denver, where there were clips of open drug use, downtown, sprawling,

(03:58):
homeless in camp, and violent crime incidents, other crazy things
happening and vivid signs of Denver in decay. Now, I
wasn't sure at first. I mean, there are other accounts.
There's I seventy Things, which shows crazy things that happen
in I seventies, sometimes really entertaining. I'm from Denver, Denver Today,

(04:24):
there's an underscore at the end. You know, there are
a lot of these outlets that showcase crazy things, and
a lot of times those outlets get material, videos and
other content that are sent to them from different people
and then they post it. Now, do Better Denver has
more of a public policy edge because they're video shorts.

(04:50):
The written commentaries that occasionally are posted and informational posts
are really all about shining a harsh light on the
city's decline while calling on city Hall to well do better,
whether that's Mayor Johnston or the city Council or other officials.

(05:10):
It is as the handle that do Better Denver says,
it's a call to do better. But then last week
when the Denver Post thrust greater scrutiny upon do Better
Denver by doxing three sources, as we'll talk about, it

(05:37):
was shameful and it was very striking to me. I knew, okay,
this is the story I'm going to write about for
my Tuesday column. And the account's administrator is now speaking
out and with me for this column. She gave her
first interview on the controversy, and as I quote in

(05:59):
my the administrator told me quote, I really started to
see things changing rapidly. She's a Denver resident with a
different pay job. This is not her career, she told
me in a phone interview, citing rising crime, public drug use,
and the city's mass housing strategy for the homeless, and

(06:22):
oftentimes that includes people with substance abuse issues and there's
no requirement for treatment or anything else. There was an
abject failure, especially as the Johnston administration was unrolling this
policy and looking at tiny home communities and more to
provide safety. Remember all the stories that we were hearing

(06:43):
about shootings happening, and some of the hotels that they
put up people in, and all kinds of drug use
going on. I'd interviewed to homeless man Dwayne Peterson, and
I had for multiple columns I wrote the last couple
of years. I had talked about his experience at some
of these shelter locations and the crime going on and

(07:05):
so forth. And there's just not a seriousness on the
part of the Johnston administration to address those substance abuse
issues or other things to provide the kind of safety, security,
and more that's needed in order to make sure that
these places are what they should be, to provide a
healthy or safe as best you can environment for them

(07:29):
to live in. Now, for almost two years, Do Better
Denvers sator citizen journalist content has been, as she says, crowdsourced.
All kinds of different people will send in material from
hundreds of human sources, disseminated via social media. How can
you show the decay of Denver without video proof? Do Better?

(07:53):
Denver's administrator told me it tells a story. Now, she
shared her idea with me, but requested anonymity for fear
of professional reprisals and personal safety. I understand that, especially
when explained that posting publicly available criminal records and spotlighting

(08:14):
gangs like trendad Agua has brought death threats to her,
sometimes from criminals or their families. And so if your
identities out there, you put yourself exposed. And I can
understand the desire for anonymity. I respected that request. The
Denver Post didn't. Their policy actually allows anonymity when a

(08:38):
reporter knows the source, but they refuse to do better
Denver's request. Okay, I'll do an interview. I'm open to
that if you'll keep my identity anonymous. I don't want
that out there. And they refuse. So they could have
kept the anonymous per their policy, and they say this

(08:58):
in the article. They refused, so of course she declined
an interview. Now, keep in mind, even the federalist papers
that helped birth the US Constitution that made the case
in newspapers across the colonies rather the original states, even

(09:19):
they were published under the pseudonym Publius. We didn't know
at the time, if it was James Madison, John Jay,
Alexander Hamilton, those were the three, or somebody else who
was writing them. The publius was the identity, So why
deny that here? That's literally a story tradition since seventeen
eighty seven, at least, because the Denver Post goal. This

(09:42):
is why the Denver Post goal wasn't to understand the account.
It wasn't to inform the public. It was to expose
the account. The post didn't name the administrator, but did
identify three of her sources. The headline for the article
literally calls out quote three women feeding information, which sounds pernicious,

(10:08):
doesn't it? Feeding information? To do better Denver. The article
names them over their strenuous objections please don't do this, Nope,
we don't care, We're going to do it anyway, and
even sharing personal details like employment, their political party affiliations,
and even in one case, real estate records. All three

(10:33):
of them told the Posts that they don't run do
Better Denver, a fact that the administrator emphasized to me
and that I know to be true as well. Quote
it was wrong for the Denver Posts to insinuate otherwise
that's what the admin for Do Better Denver told me
the sources. Those sources, those individuals simply shared videos or

(10:58):
documents that had been obtained in part through the Colorado
Open Records Act KORRA, which were then used in fewer
than two dozen of Do Better denvers twenty four hundred
plus posts. That's less than one percent of the content.
There is a word for that, folks. It is called doxing,
when you publish identifying information, usually with malicious intent. Now,

(11:25):
interestingly enough, the Denver Post article has a whole section
is this doxing.

Speaker 5 (11:31):
Where?

Speaker 4 (11:31):
And I'll get to this at a moment and explain
why it's absurd. But they try to say, no, actually,
do Better Denver's account is engaging in doxing. We the
Denver posts are not. These people are quasi public figures
or something like that because they sent information to an account.

(11:53):
It's nonsense, especially when you know that the three women
were targeted according to the post by the post, by
the way, because of the accounts quote growing influence and
the misinformation it spreads. That's Do Better Denver that they're
talking about. The three women in the post crosshairs were

(12:15):
identified essentially by korraing their Korras digging through open records requests,
public records requests that have been filed with public agencies
by others. That's what they are to unmask critics of Johnston,
the city council, others in Denver. It's absurd that instead

(12:39):
of chasing the real news, that is the leads that
those critics helped expose, and they absolutely helped expose things.
It's astonishing, as the admitment for the account told me,
the post gets to use anonymous sources and people don't
think they'll dox their sources. But they're calling me a journalist,

(13:02):
so why are they doxing my sources. It's a great
question for reporter Shelley Bradbury at the Denver Post to answer.
I mean, talk about a chilling effect on citizen voices
critical of Mayor Mike Johnston. For example, you send material
to do Better Denver, will the Denver Post wants you

(13:24):
to know you just might have your identities revealed and
be doxed by the mainstream media through an outlet like
the Denver Post. I mean, in the article the Post
says quote the posts that is do Better Denver's posts
are often inflammatory with titbits of fact mixed with rumor, speculation,

(13:48):
and misinformation. Yet, of course the news report so called
news report, provides no concrete examples of flagrant misinformation. They
even give examples that are basically substantiated in the article
more or less or at least legitimize the questions and concerns.

(14:09):
Here's the reality. Let's be real here. This is not
straight news journalism. It is, in fact a witch hunt.
It's a prebake narrative. It's bolstered in the article by
handpicked journalism experts from a couple of outfits that are
claiming to be providing legitimacy in essence to the article,

(14:31):
all to justify the article itself. Here's the thing, do better,
Denver never claim to be a newsroom. Just as she
put it, the administrator a conduit for the citizens of
Denver to show what's really happening. Look, folks, you don't
have to agree with everything that they post there to

(14:54):
see why citizen journalism like this rattles the folks down
a city hall in Denver. In fact, even the Denver
Police Department stopped responding to the account on acts, according
to the Post, reportedly with the mayor's this is the
word guidance. Johnston's office deemed their content not solutions oriented,

(15:17):
and the spokesman for the Mayor's office when all patronizing
here when he says in the post quote, those who
truly wish to see their city do better, seek to
build others up, not tear them down. Wait, I do
think there's a call from this account for Denver to
do better. So isn't the goal there to actually build

(15:41):
up the city and call for the officials to do better?
Come on, and besides, since when do politicians get to
decide whether someone is sufficiently solution oriented? The mayor gets
to decide that? Really, so ism, you're not solution oriented?

(16:02):
Never mind the fact though, and what's funny too, is
in the Denver Post article on the first page, and
like the first seven paragraphs, they talk about some of
the solutions that do better Denver calls for, and as
I write in today's Denver Gazette column, do better Denver
under attack from the media. The account advocates stricter enforcement

(16:26):
against public drug use, drug loitering, and camping, as well
as repealing laws like House Built nineteen twelve sixty three,
which defelonized our drugs and pressing for parole and bond reform. Now,
some of these changes will require state action, others rest
with city Hall. In the DA's office, the administrator for

(16:48):
the account told me, quote, these are real tangible solutions.
Handing someone foil to continue smoking drugs is enabling the problem.
People don't want to run into some guys smoking meth
on the corner who's naked. I mean, is that really
hard to understand? I don't think so. I think she's
spun on there. In fact, do you bet her? Denver

(17:11):
mostly publishes public arrest records and videos, basically saying hey,
look at this. Now, going back to the old doxing points.
Some of the critics and the Denver Post even hints
at this, suggests this is doxing. But when a newspaper
covers a jail booking or someone caught on camera, is
that doxing? I bet, whether you're at the Denver Post

(17:36):
or where I am, at the Denver Gazette, you would
say no, and you'd be right. The admin noted that
all of the videos are filmed in public spaces. Everyone
should be mindful of what they're doing in public. Don't
do drugs, don't be naked running down the street. I mean, folks,

(17:57):
that to me just sounds like everyday and sense good
advice follow it. Let's be honest here, This attempt to
expose Do Better Denver reeks of pandering to the Johnston administration,
and they would not pull this on a mainstream news outlet.

(18:22):
But because Do Better Denver has no institutional backing, they'll
bully her. They'll bully and target her private citizen sources
with impunity because they can and they believe they'll get
away with it. I mean, look, as I say in
today's column, instead of circling the wagons and shooting the messenger,

(18:43):
why not tackle the real issues? As the Denver Gazette
reported recently, the city's overdose deaths are up twenty percent
year over year, yet Denver is diverting opioid settlement money
to a harm reduction website. Violent crime is up in
Downtown's District nine, public illegal drug use remains rampant. There

(19:08):
are other districts throughout Denver that have all kinds of problems,
and there are no shortages of urban woes going on. So,
my friends, as we go to break, why aren't all
Denver media laser focused on solving those problems as the
Denver Gazette is as KOA is, instead of ganging up

(19:31):
on social media accounts that expose them. It's astonishing. If
you are not already following on Instagram or X at
Do Better Denver, which is Denver's d n VR, you
should be. And while you're at it on X follow

(19:52):
me at Saying Center saying with an E, not an
A center. I have my column posted there. You could
also log on to the Edinver Gazette's website Denver Gazette
dot com, go to the columns page and read today's piece,
Do Better Denver under attack from the media. Just an
astonishing story. You can't make this stuff up. You just can't.

(20:14):
Jimmy Sangenberger in for Mandy Connell, just getting started as
we continue on KOA. Good to be with you right
here on at ko A. And look I had upside
down played. It's tuned from Buddy about the costs going up,

(20:38):
the expensive things going on because we're always seeing different
struggles that are happening economically, and it's a mixed bag
on the economic side of things. We spent a lot
of times yesterday, a lot of time yesterday talking about
the Bureau of Labor Statistics story and the firing of

(20:58):
the commissioner by President Trump late last week after jobs
numbers came back, also revising down some spring data and
it wasn't to the President's liking. We also talked about
gross domestic product and with John Tamney, how GDP really
is a bogus number because if government spends more, it

(21:22):
boosts GDP and that really is not productive. That has
nothing to do with economic growth, but government spending is
part of the equation, and bringing in more imports brings
down GDP when it should really bring it up. We
talked about all that yesterday, but the fact of the

(21:42):
matter is there's a lot of things happening, a lot
of different concerns when it comes economically. And President Trump
this morning, in regards to the Bureau of Labor Statistics story,
he was on CNBC, talked about that and talked about
some of the other issues going on as far as
data and what numbers do you believe? And one of

(22:04):
the unfortunate things that can come from interviewing President Trump
is he doesn't exactly give you straight answers. He's always windy.
It's like trying to follow along a windy road in
the mountains, trying to get to your destination. You'll sort
of get there, but not sure how you got there,

(22:26):
and you might forget is this the actual destination that
you set out. Here's just one example of President Trump
asked directly against CNBC about his claims about rigged data.

Speaker 6 (22:36):
Antiquated, no doubt, and certainly not certainly suboptimal, but rigged.
Where do you get the notion that it's rigged or
do you have any evidence there?

Speaker 5 (22:45):
It is antiquated? But it's also very political. And you know,
I had an election recently where I did very well,
won every swing state, won the popular vote, won everything
all right, all the counties. It's I think eighty seven
percent of the counties were Republican.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Up.

Speaker 5 (23:01):
That's never happened before.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
And yet I had to go through hell.

Speaker 5 (23:06):
And just days before the election, they put out numbers
that it was like the country was on fire, it
was doing so well.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
And then they did a.

Speaker 5 (23:16):
Revision about two weeks later, and the revision was down
by almost nine hundred thousand jobs. You remember that, And
I said, but man, I said, what would have happened?
What would have happened if I lost think of it.
I would have said they gave phony numbers and then
they revised them a week and a half later.

Speaker 4 (23:36):
Those were ben bark numbers. Now that is the next thing,
And I think that's Joe Kurnin on CNBC, and he's
doing a really good job here trying to push back
a little bit, trying to address his questions a little
bit more and get the president to focus on some
of them a bit. But you didn't actually hear something

(23:57):
concrete about rigging there. And part of the problem for
Trump is he's saying all kinds of things were rigged.
Twenty twenty elections were rigged. Other things are going to
be rigged against him. And so when you use that word,
it has less meaning. It's like somebody who constantly drops
f bombs. It just doesn't stick when you do it,

(24:17):
and it actually matters because you're just no for doing that,
you know, over using such words. I don't know if
that's a great example, but it just it just comes
to mind for people who swear all the time, and
then and then they get to a point where maybe
it actually is justified, but hey, you're just using it
doesn't have the same impact. So here's a little more

(24:39):
from that exchange.

Speaker 5 (24:40):
They gave phony numbers and then they revised them a
week and a half later.

Speaker 6 (24:43):
Those were benchmark numbers open so that happens.

Speaker 7 (24:46):
They do that.

Speaker 6 (24:47):
They do that twice a year, and it reconciles the
monthly figures.

Speaker 4 (24:51):
With like the overall numbers. And it was a big number.
And obviously the numbers were rigged.

Speaker 5 (24:57):
The numbers were rigged. Biden wasn't doing well.

Speaker 8 (24:59):
He was doing poorly.

Speaker 5 (25:00):
That's trying out these phenomenal numbers in the two days
before the election and a little bit before that, always
these great numbers.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
And you knew it wasn't doing well. Part of the
problem here is looking at government numbers and taking them
entirely at sacrosanct value. Yes, the timing of those things
certainly gave the impression that it was intended to be
helpful for Biden. It doesn't mean it was certainly didn't
help him all that much because Biden ended up losing.

(25:29):
It was a clear victory, including a popular vote victory
for President Trump. But current's trying to say, there, these
are benchmark numbers. This is sort of how it works
at the end of the year with data correction and
so on and so forth, and President Trump was still
hung up on the whole rigged idea. But then there's

(25:51):
the basic question. I think it's a very good one.
Which numbers do you believe? Which number do you believe
at this point? Because if you notice.

Speaker 7 (26:00):
Suddenly the chances of what you've wanted for months and
argued for for months, the chances of a rate cut
soared because of these numbers, do you not believe the
current numbers, because they're playing right into what you want
the Fed and Jay Powell to do. They're not horrible,
as you said, but you know, perhaps with the tariffs,

(26:20):
some businesses delayed, some spending, some consumers may have been.

Speaker 4 (26:25):
Less certain about the future. So maybe we're seeing a
slight slow down in labor.

Speaker 7 (26:30):
But you're going to get exactly what you want based
on these numbers.

Speaker 4 (26:33):
Which ones you believe?

Speaker 6 (26:34):
Do you not believe the revised numbers either.

Speaker 5 (26:36):
It's not what I want.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
I don't want that.

Speaker 5 (26:38):
I wanted it a year ago. I wanted it a
long time ago. Jay Powell is highly political, and I
think you know, I call him too late, Jerome too
late Powell. He's too late, He's too late, always he
always has been, except when he came to lowering interest
rates before the election, you know that he did.

Speaker 4 (26:55):
He worked out how would you replace? And then they
go on to talk about the FED shared your own Powell.
But there is a question there, which numbers do you believe?
And frankly, either wasn't an answer there. We don't know
what numbers he believes. I would say, you can make
the determination. If it's positive numbers, he will believe it.

(27:16):
And what's too bad is like, if you're playing this
game on data, then when you have some really good numbers,
which the president already has he had during his first term,
it's not going to mean as much because people are
going to wonder, well, what's going on is the data
being skewed intentionally to appeal to President Trump? To appease

(27:37):
the president again, I voted for the guy three times,
but this is one of those things that's just always
frustrating about him, is he's not willing to look at
the data honestly. Now, that doesn't mean that the data
isn't going to have some political bent from time to time,
but they're not providing any real evidence of any sort
that the data earlier this year was all good with

(28:00):
the jobs market, so we're gonna accept that and tell that.
But then suddenly it's a bad number and we're going
to do the opposite. And as for an interview, I
do think a Texter on the KOA Common Spirit Health
text line five sixty six nine zero is kind of right.
Interviewing Trump is like nailing Jen Jello. It's true. It's true.

(28:21):
Even a favorable interview with him, where you're on the
same page, it seems to be like nailing Jello. That's it.
I'd love to interview the President at any time. Certainly
would on the other side. We'll get to some of
your texts about do better Denver about the Trump interview
here and more as we continue. Jimmy Sangenberger in for
Mandy Connell and KOA Common Spirit Health at text line

(28:44):
five sixty six nine zero. Jimmy, after all the revelations
regarding the Russia collusion accusations against Trump, how can we
dismiss the Bureau of Labor Statistics as not rigged? I
think there's a clear answer to that, and it actually
was in the start of the question that Joe Kernin

(29:04):
on CNBC asked President Trump this morning and that was
in essence, you know, antiquated, yes, in terms of how
they collect data as some of those problems, but rigged
antiquated flawed collection methods is not the same as rigged.

(29:26):
And listener text came in saying Larry Cudlow as Steve
Moore talked with Art Laffer about the antiquated analysis. Of course,
all of those are three esteemed conservative economists. Antiquated analysis
at the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and how much it's
causing these one million dollar job adjustments. I believe they

(29:46):
call it the econometric modeling, the birth of death job numbers. Yeah,
there's antiquated and antiquated analysis here. Fair enough, the data
is going to be something where and I just take
this for government data in general. I trust the ADP
private sector numbers more any day of the week and

(30:07):
twice on Sundays. Then I trust the government's BLS Bureau
of Labor Statistics numbers. But of course the unemployment rate
is calculated from the BLS. But here's the thing, having
a flawed calculation or flawed numbers from an antiquated system, or,
as a writer pointed out in the Wall Street Journal,

(30:33):
you're not getting enough response from businesses. That's the big problem.
Businesses aren't responding as much to the survey. If that's
the case, then yeah, there's a problem with the data.
But that's not the same as being rigged or political
in any way, shape or form. It's just not The

(30:53):
BLS data can be a clear indicator as to the
trend of the economy and what's happening with the jobs numbers,
so it's not at all the same. It has nothing
to do with the Russia collusion hoax or anything like that.
Having flawed data is not the same as rigged and
the President could have ordered the commissioner to reevaluate how

(31:15):
they collect the data, but instead he just chose to
fire her right then and there. Unfortunately, I don't think
that's the right way to do it. I'm Jimmy Sangenberger
here for Mandy Connell on the other side. In February
of twenty twenty three, Louis Garcia, sixteen year old student,

(31:36):
was shot outside of East High School. He died two
weeks later. A month later, you would have the school
shooting inside East. There was a lawsuit brought by Louis
Garcia's family against Denver Public Schools. That lawsuit was dismissed
last week. We will be talking in studio on the

(31:57):
other side with Matthew Bearing, your attorney for Luis gar
See his family, about this case and about how to
hold Denver Public Schools responsible and accountable for their own
failures and more as we continue on KOA.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
The Mandy Connell Show is sponsored by Bell and Pollock
accident and injury lawyers.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Well, no, it's Mandy Connell on KAM got way.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
Through and Connell keeping is sad day.

Speaker 4 (32:39):
Time Now for the second hour, Jimmy Sangenberger in for
Mendy Connell on this Tuesday afternoon on KOA. Thanks for
joining us. Two and a half years ago, just about
a tragedy struck just outside of East High School in Denver,

(33:03):
when sixteen year old Luis Garcia, leaving school in his car,
was shot eight times, and two weeks later, I think
it was two weeks was passed away killed. We do
not know, at least publicly, who the suspect is. There
has been no arrest made. Denver Public Schools was sued

(33:29):
by Luis Garcia's family, and last week that lawsuit was
dismissed in court. An appeal has been filed in the
case in the quest to hold Denver Public Schools accountable,
and there are so many quests right now to hold
them accountable for dramatic failures time after time and ensuring

(33:53):
safety for students. That's why I'm very pleased to be
joined here in studio by Matthew Baringer of the and
Your Law firm, the attorney representing Luis Garcia's family in
this case, is right here in studio. Matthew. Welcome to
the show, Welcome to Koa, and good afternoon, and thank
you for having me this afternoon.

Speaker 8 (34:15):
I know the cycle is crazy and there's always things
going on, and I really appreciate and the family appreciates us,
appreciates you for giving us a platform to talk about
these matter.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
I am happy to do it for two reasons. One
because it is not getting nearly enough attention. I have
seen next to no coverage about this case, and to me,
that is a failure of the media and we need
to see a lot more coverage of that, and I
will probably do a column in the Denver Gause that
on this as well. Number Two, because we need as

(34:48):
much attention in spotlight and efforts for accountability upon Denver
Public Schools, which has failed its students time and time again. Now,
I do want to remind our listeners that a month
later after Luis Garcia, all of sixteen year old sixteen
years old was shot outside East High School. Inside East

(35:09):
High School, there was shooting of two deans by a
seventeen year old student, and of course that led to
some shakeups on the school board in conjunction with what
happened to Luis Garcia. That's a little bit of context.
But let's talk about this lawsuit and what your claims
were in the case, and then we can get to
what the judge decided in a moment. Well, and thank

(35:31):
you for that, and the facts of the matter. What happened.

Speaker 8 (35:33):
Yeah, So, as you said, Louise was leaving school to
go to a birthday party. There's no evidence throughout the litigation,
nor prior to the show that Luise was up to
any sort of nefarious activity of any sort, and getting
into his car about to drive away, he was gunned down, murdered,

(35:54):
cold blood, shot in the face. Several months pass we
talked to garcias and there is a law that allows
a plaintiff the Claire Davies Act that allows for a
lawsuit because in general terms, there's this doctrine called sovereign immunity.

(36:14):
The state can do no wrong, but there are certain
carve outs, and that was in response to the tragedy
that happened several years ago to Claire, and it allows
a family to seek address with the court for what
in our lawsuit was that we believe that the district
had been negligent in not continuing to have Security Resource

(36:38):
officers SROs after the wake of the tragedy of George
Floyd and the whole array of other changes that for
today we won't get into sure, and so we filed
suit sounding in that exception.

Speaker 4 (36:56):
We had some litigation the district in the motion to dismiss.
Before we get to the dismissal, Matthew Berenger, let's talk
for a moment about the Claire Davis Safety Act School
Safety Act and this carve out and why you believe
that the district is legally responsible for what happened on

(37:16):
February thirteenth, twenty twenty three.

Speaker 8 (37:19):
Well, in summary, again, as I said, the removal of
those SROs is the first prong that we alleged secondly,
that this happened on school grounds or within quote unquote's
a facility that is part and parcel with the Claire
Davies Act now referenced.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
In the order.

Speaker 8 (37:39):
There is not a lot of case law, so legislators
make law. Judges interpret that law because obviously legislature can't
hit every factual scenario. And in this case, by virtue
of where this happened, and we have asserted that it
happened on Esplanade as he was going north, he was
murdered on and then his car then lurched because he

(38:02):
was dying on to seventeenth Avenue.

Speaker 4 (38:07):
Matthew, talk to me about sort of paint a picture
of the campus if you could, so that we can
have an understanding. Because when we get to the dismissed
lear in just a second, the judge concluded that, no,
this is not on district property and therefore the Claire
Davies Act exception does not count. Absolutely. So East High

(38:29):
School faces west.

Speaker 8 (38:31):
The front of the school, it faces the mountains in
front of just past that, there are two lanes Esplanade,
one going just north, the other one just going south.

Speaker 4 (38:40):
One way, there are several students.

Speaker 8 (38:44):
Several almost everybody that can get a spot park on
Esplanade as well as then just if you continue to
go west, there is also a soccer field across multi
use AstroTurf, and then past that is student parking for
seniors and juniors. If you are unable to get a

(39:05):
spot there, then you are then set to as many do,
to park overn City Park or on the would that
be the west side.

Speaker 4 (39:17):
The east side excuse me of East High School?

Speaker 8 (39:20):
And so where mister Garcia or Luis was shot was
traveling northbound on that northbound one way to if things
wouldn't have happened, he would have made a right turn
to go on to seventeenth.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
Avenue and travel east. So the judge in her dismissal
last week said, no, this is not on it doesn't
have that qualify as school facility. What did the judge
determine and where do you stand on that decision?

Speaker 8 (39:45):
Well, in summary, the court held that by virtue of
where the murder had happened, that in referencing other public
transit that was near in the court's estimation it was
a thoroughfare, a public thoroughfare and some other items, that
it wasn't within a school facility. Now, obviously, while we

(40:10):
respect the courts order, we disagree with that and therefore
that's why we follow the notice of appeal. Now we
would assert that logically speaking, where does the duty of
them to protect students?

Speaker 9 (40:22):
End?

Speaker 8 (40:23):
Is it if you're down the road on Esplanaut, And
as I reference, there's other school facilities vis a vis
the soccer fields, the parking lot, So where is it
is it when you step out of the school. They
don't have a duty anymore. Does it have to happen
within the school? Where does that start? And where does
that end?

Speaker 4 (40:45):
And the judge as I as I understand it, said
that it was that the intersection where the shooting had
occurred the murder occurred, consists of public roads that includes
an RTD bus stop and therefore that signal it's not
within school facility.

Speaker 8 (41:02):
And again that was a ruling by the court. We
respect that, but we utterly disagree with that. And you
have filed the appeal. Correct, talk to me about that
well in that appeal. So what we have filed thus far,
to be clear, we filed a notice noticeably or you know,
usually have to give notice, and then there's other.

Speaker 4 (41:16):
Processes with it.

Speaker 8 (41:17):
Before the Court of Appeals, and at that time we're
going to make further argument as to why we believe
that the decision by the district court was incorrect.

Speaker 4 (41:27):
Matthew Behringer of the Barringer Law Firm joining us here
in studio. He is the attorney for the family and
the state of Luis Garcia again sixteen years old, shot
in cold blood, murdered outside of East High School, and
I'd understood from the location it just seems like it

(41:50):
is something that qualifies for the school respond to be
held responsible. So I wish you luck in the appeal.
But let's talk for a moment as well about the
criminal case that has never come about, because, as I
understand it, there has been an investigation. I believe that
they've identified a suspect who was responsible for shooting Luis

(42:13):
Garcia eight times in cold blood as he was in
his car leaving campus.

Speaker 8 (42:20):
What's going on here? Why has there not been an arrest? Well,
that is something that we're all wondering. It's been nine
hundred and four days since Luis was murdered. The Denver
Police Department, through their detectives, who I think have done
a fantastic job. They had investigated this horrific crime, and

(42:44):
yes they have a suspect. They've had a suspect for months,
and they know this suspect because they've been in contact.

Speaker 4 (42:54):
With this suspect before.

Speaker 8 (43:00):
Not only well, the detective has done what detectives do,
very linear, meaning we start from homicide, they look at
the scene, they continue to investigate, they rule out. So,
for instance, there was a lot in the media about
the two individuals that were contacted. They were eliminated as suspects.

(43:22):
They be in the Downer Police Department. The detective also
issued certain subpoenas, has done, has gotten Facebook posts, witness accounts,
pretty much anything and everything, photographs. The thing that the
listeners have to understand about me, I have been defense

(43:42):
counsel for eighteen years. Part of what I do and
I've handled everything from traffic tickets to first agree homicide.
So I have seen an affidavit or two in my life.
In the affidavit that was prepared and presented to the
District Attorney's office under the circumstances, was quite quite strong,

(44:04):
certainly in our view, enough to charge and allow that
to go through the legal process.

Speaker 4 (44:12):
For whatever reason.

Speaker 8 (44:14):
After I have had with the family meetings with then
Die McCann and other attorneys within her office. Their investigator,
for whatever reason which I cannot understand, refuse.

Speaker 4 (44:34):
At least to this point, to file criminal charges in
this matter. So to be clear, Matthew Berenger, this is
on the way you're describing it to the police department
did their job. The detectives did a phenomenal job and
have identify the suspect. They have somebody who could and
should be arrested, and yet the charges, charges have not

(44:56):
been filed. It's the District Attorney's office that has, it seems,
dropped to the ball.

Speaker 8 (45:04):
There is nothing that we have ever said, through any interview,
filing anything where we have said the Denver To Police
Department dropped the ball. They are frustrated, they want this
to be filed. I have talked to the lead detective
on several occasions. They have done their job. I know

(45:25):
that they're frustrated.

Speaker 4 (45:25):
I know for a fact. And something I think that
ought to be just as important in those.

Speaker 8 (45:29):
Interactions that I had with the detective is that he
said to me specifically, I have been a detective for
however many years, and he said I can count on
one hand of how many people are truly innocent when
they were murdered, killed because of you know, they might
be involved with drugs or whatever the case may be.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
Mister Garcia, with.

Speaker 8 (45:51):
Luis nothing, He was truly someone that had absolutely nothing
to do with anything that would have led to his murder.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
Yeah, tell us a little bit more about Louis Garcia.
Seems like he was a great kid. He was a
great kid.

Speaker 8 (46:09):
He had He was playing for East High School for soccer,
he was playing for for Rapids.

Speaker 4 (46:13):
I believe he was playing in the for e CNL,
which is not easy to do.

Speaker 8 (46:19):
I think he I knew he had aspirations to hopefully
play in college at some point. I would assume if
I wouldn't the first in his family to do so. Uh,
there's no evidence whatsoever, as I said beforehand.

Speaker 4 (46:31):
Where there was.

Speaker 8 (46:33):
Any sort of behavior that he had that would have
contributed to this. He was going to Uh, he was
working while he was playing and going to school. Wow,
he was very close to his family. I've it's it's
unbelievably a parent. In all the past nine hundred days

(46:54):
that I've gotten to know the family, They're a tight family.
They're a good family. And his brother specifically, I know
has taken this. They all have, but I know that
the brother has taken it very hard.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
Well, I was going to ask you to tell us
a little bit about how, with everything that has happened
over the past nine hundred four days, how the family
is holding up, especially with legal defeat and with a
refusal that seems I mean, it's the only word that's
right for the District Attorney's office to not file charges here,

(47:28):
it seems like there has to be an absolute refusal
to do So, how's the family holding up?

Speaker 3 (47:35):
Well?

Speaker 4 (47:35):
How can you expect him now?

Speaker 8 (47:37):
They you know, it's it's amazing how well they have
been able to hold up. I know Luis's mother, it's her,
it's hit him all. Santos the father, he's very stoic.
He's a very smart man. And you know, in fact,
when we were waiting to talk to Dan McCamy, he

(48:01):
was looking at all the pictures on the wall and
he saw all the different das and he saw miss mccannon,
you know, looked like she was one of the first
women to be a DA for Denver. And he was
talking to me about that and said to you know,
that's so cool that she did that band. She must
have really had to work hard, extra hard. Gosh, that's
just such as so cool. In a country like this,
you can do something like that. Then he continued to

(48:22):
look around and saw the DA's offices has moved from
the Wellington Web building. It's on the top floor. It's
a very nice office. And he looked around and he said, boy,
there's a lot of money here. It must be a
lot with all the resources. How is it they can't
find who killed my son? And then we go into
the meeting. Then we go into the meeting and they

(48:43):
gave the family the same line that they gave the
family seven eight months ago. And I wasn't there for
that first interview, so I didn't know. A Luis Santo's
part of me looked over at meaning. He says, Matthew,
this is all the things they asked us the first time.
Why are they asking us the same questions again? We
already gave them this information. I guess I'll give it

(49:04):
to them again.

Speaker 9 (49:06):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (49:07):
I just I have to say, on the one hand,
I'm not entirely surprised because they're time and time again,
where for political reasons or what have you? It seems
like certain prosecution decisions were made under Beth McCann that
absolutely should not have done. So I reminded folks in
a recent column in the Denver Gazette about a couple
instances of that. But now you have a different district

(49:31):
attorney in Denver, and you would hope that John Walsh
might re look at this, take it seriously, say hey,
let's go ahead and file charges on this case. What
are we doing? Has not happened? Has not? And I
have not spoken to mister Walsh. Certainly his office inherited

(49:52):
this matter.

Speaker 8 (49:53):
But again it's the same frustration in that if media
or whomever contacts DPD and again I think they've done
a fantastic job, but the line is, well, it's still
under investigation. And then I saw the response to other
things earlier this weekend and it was, well, we're hopeful

(50:14):
that this has come to I can't remember the exact language,
but essentially we're hopeful that something will happen.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Wow.

Speaker 8 (50:19):
And it's like, as defense counsel, you know that nothing
gets better for the prosecution with a passage of time.

Speaker 4 (50:28):
Time is a defense lawyer is one of their best friends?

Speaker 8 (50:31):
Yeah, And the idea especially when you have a detail
affidavit that you're going to get something new now is insane.
There's something else I think the listeners ought to know
too that I want to make sure that we hit
back to the civil suit when we had filed there
is a way in which that a defendant can say

(50:51):
this case DPS, he's high school. They say, well, we're
not liable for just the general defenses. In addition that
there's these other people. They're the ones that did it,
so we're not on the hook, right, So they designated
these other individuals, these other co conspirators or others that
aided the individual who committed the crime. And the lawyers

(51:17):
for the district they never challenged that this person was
the shooter, not once.

Speaker 4 (51:24):
They didn't say it wasn't.

Speaker 8 (51:25):
The defense wasn't, Well, we had this random person, how
can we defend against that?

Speaker 4 (51:29):
How could we how could we protect Louise? This was something? No,
they said, we agree that's who did it. That's the one. Wow,
that's astonishing. And so let's just a couple of minutes
left with you, Matthew Berenger. But let's go back and
go back to DPS in particular, and the bigger picture,

(51:49):
we had the murder of Luis Garcia. We had the
shooting of two deans just over a month later at
East Also at East High School inside the campus bias
seventeen year old who had previous weapons issues and had
been expelled from Cherry Creek Schools prior to that. We
had at mccauliffe International School, you had former principal Kurt

(52:12):
Dennis who blew the whistle similarly saying, Okay, this is
a student that we were trying to remove from the
school and give other educational opportunities to protect the safety
of students because he had particular issues of violence and
so forth. How do you look at Denver Public Schools
and the fact that they have seemingly been able to
dodge accountability time and time again for years. Whether it's

(52:37):
from the SROs which they did bring back in the
wake of these shootings be very clear, or to the
discipline matrix which they resolved or fixed a little bit,
but it's still woefully actor to teachers, just woefully inapt
go ahead, please.

Speaker 8 (52:51):
Everything you just said, I cannot agree with more. This
is my take on that group as a whole.

Speaker 4 (52:59):
They have been a gen to and that agenda is
that we are going to have.

Speaker 8 (53:04):
These certain policies. And I can know the politics and
all those things, but they have this certain policies, this
certain bent on how a school ought to be ran,
and so be it.

Speaker 4 (53:16):
If a kid gets shot, dean gets shot, well.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
So be it.

Speaker 4 (53:22):
As the listeners may know.

Speaker 8 (53:23):
And I know you know that when they had when
they all got together the board and it was made
public because they tried to keep it sealed. They were
more mad at Superintendent Marero for going to the mayor
and getting Soros back in without consulting with all of them.
They were more ticked off about that then the fact
that two of their deans have been shot and one

(53:44):
of their students. And one other thing I want to
make very clear for the listeners too. When Luis was shot,
the narrative was gun control. Okay, well, that's fine. You
can have that argument, you can have that debate. That's
for another day. But they did not put SROs back.
Let's let's gin up all the kids, let's help them
go down to the to and exercise their first minute right,

(54:06):
which I agree with one, but we're not going to
do anything that is of substance to protect you so
you if I'm a kid, I look at you t
other and I go.

Speaker 4 (54:16):
Wait a second, who's are we going to be? Okay?
And then finally they bring in s ROS after the
Deans seven shot as they should have been. Just imagined
a police car in that parking area. That's SRO. I
mean that the message that signals is don't commit crimes here,
and that it's not perfect, but it at least will

(54:37):
help as a deterrent, especially for something in that case
outside of school. Oh you see the police car there,
Maybe you.

Speaker 8 (54:42):
Shouldn't agreed, And Santo said to me specifically, Louise Matthew,
Yeslis's that. Pardon me, louisaid, he said, Matthew, if there
would have been an SRO there, my kid would be
alive today.

Speaker 4 (54:54):
Sad, really sad. Matthew Barringer, thanks for what you're doing.
Thanks for joining us on Kawa again. Thank you for
having me today. Jimmy sanging Burger in for Mandy Connell.
Don't go anywhere, Jimmy Sanging Burger in for Mandy Connell.
From the venue, just the atmosphere, the view, to the acoustics.

(55:17):
We have the perfect concert venue in Red Rocks Joe
Bonamasa every summer, every August puts on a killer show.
Rhys Winen's keyboard player for Steve Ravaugh and Double Trouble
is in his band. Amazing to see him live because Stevie,
we're coming up on it. Stevie Ravaugh passed away on

(55:38):
August twenty seventh, nineteen ninety. We're coming up on the
thirty fifth anniversary of his passing and Stevie would have
been seventy. He was thirty five when he passed away. Nevertheless, oh,

(56:02):
by the way, I would have loved to have seen
him at Red Rocks. I mean, come on, that would
have been amazing. I know people who did and I'm
very jealous. But nevertheless, it's an amazing, amazing venue and
we have it. And from Joe Bonamasa to Warren Haynes
formerly of the Allman Brothers band, you name them, they're like,

(56:23):
this is the best amphitheater in the world. We love
to play here. And that is to a person, it's
just what are your experiences of Red Rocks? Five six
six nine zero KOA common Spirit Health hotlines just every
time is wonderful, even when it rains usually I know,
I know I remember, was it a couple of years
ago when you had the major hailstorm? It was absolutely

(56:45):
crazy at Red Rocks. Okay, that's an exception to the
rule when it comes to Red Rocks. But bad are
we just lucky to have that amazing venue. That is
the best thing that FDR's New Deal programs ever brought about.
His Red Rocks. Civilian Conservation Corps built that thing, and
that's the best thing that they ever did. Gotta say

(57:07):
that's my view and I'm sticking to it. Five six
six nine zero koa Commic Spirit Health tech Line. We
just had a really powerful interview with Matthew Barringer, the
attorney for the family of Luis Garcia, who again sixteen
years old, was shot and murdered outside of East High School. Dismissed.
The case was dismissed. That was brought against DPS last

(57:31):
week the dismissal happened, and I've gotten some really invaluable
listener text that is astonishing. As Matthew Barringer said, He's like, look,
the detectives, the police did a phenomenal job. They know
they have a suspect, but the arrest has not come
because the district Attorney's office has not filed charges and

(57:57):
will not do so, at least the seem they've actively refused.
Just astonishing and I don't get it. John Wallash, do
your job, get these charges filed. Bring accountability to the
murderer if that's the suspect, Bring accountability for Luis Garcia.

(58:21):
Do the right thing. Listener texts coming in, Jimmy, Remember
that DPS Denver Public Schools had removed school resource officers,
that's the law enforcement officers assigned to schools, and these
events occurred when non SROs were on campus and brought
the soros back after it was clear that schools were

(58:44):
less safe without the SROs. Yeah, that was the obvious
It was an obvious response. After East High School two
deans were shoped Luis Garcia shop and killed. Didn't make
a difference. I think they might have for a couple
of days put SROs there and then removed them, but
only at that school. Then it happens to two deans,

(59:05):
and then they decide to take greater actions. By the way,
I should add that the two deans, Wayne Mason and
Eric Sinclair, have not gotten justice either, and Denver Public
Schools has not conducted an internal investigation on the shooting
of those two deans by seventeen year old Austin Lyle,

(59:26):
who was failed himself by DPS, and it happened during
a so called routine pat down of that student, but
there's been no internal investigation to figure out what went wrong. Jimmy,
the lack of SOROS and the way DPS says this
occurred off campus are connected because they put the SOROS

(59:48):
back acknowledges the lack of a safe school. If this
event occurs on campus in a period of time when
DPS recognize that schools were less safe, this makes them
liable for his death. I mean, that's I think part
of the argument that Matthew Bearringer is making and now
will do so on appeal. I mean, you have, like

(01:00:12):
I said, you have a police car outside, and that's
going to be a huge disincentive for somebody to roll
up in a car and shoot somebody else in a car.
I mean, it's just clear, Jimmy, Can you explain why
DPS is so against having SROs in their schools. It

(01:00:37):
goes back to twenty twenty and George Floyd and the
claim that having police a police presence on school campuses
is all about or brings about the school to prison pipeline.
It's racist. You're going to see black students face more

(01:00:59):
arrests as a result. Now, the data actually doesn't show
this in terms of ticketing since the return of SROs
and I don't think this has changed since I last
looked at the data. You didn't have a significant uptick
in rasts from having their presence because they're still limited
in what they can do. It's not like they're doing

(01:01:20):
the role of enforcing discipline. They have other objectives, other
responsibilities that they're engaged in and are limited responsibility limited roles.
But the presence is a massive distance centerve for poor behavior.
But that's why it's supposedly race system leads more to

(01:01:40):
the school to prison pipeline. There you go. I mean,
that's why they were moved and then these incidents happen
in Boom. They come back because they needed to come back.
Jimmy Sangenberger filling in for Mandy Connell. We'll pick it

(01:02:01):
up on the other side as we continue. Some great
texts by the way as well about red rocks and
great times there the koa Common Spirit health text line
in five six six nine zero. We'll pick up the
conversation on the other side right here on KOA. Do
you imagine a live stevee Yvaughn concert broadcast on the radio.
This was in Austin, Texas at Steamboat eighteen seventy four.

(01:02:23):
He was all of twenty five years old, had not
even released his first studio album, yet amazing album. Look
it up Steve Yvon in Double Trouble. It was just
the power trio before, years before Reese Winings would join
the band in the beginning, and I didn't realize that

(01:02:45):
this was this slot when I'd asked Grant to plug
in some Stevie and we've gotten some five six six
nine zero ka common spirit out text line talking a
little bit about Red Rocks and Stevere Ravon. I love
these texts, Hey, Jimmy. I graduated high school on that
stage of Red Rocks. And in nineteen eighty eight I
was invited to a Bonnie Raid concert. It was opened
by Taj Mahall and a guy I had never heard of,

(01:03:08):
Stevie Ravaughn. I be hate he became a hardcore fan
in that moment. I bet you did, And oh my gosh,
there's no better place you could have seen Stevie Rayvaughn live.
That is amazing. Here's another text, Jimmy, my dad was
an usher at Red Rocks in the sixties and seventies.

(01:03:29):
What a hey day. He was assigned to the stage
parking lot. I used to just go to work with
him when there was a concert I wanted to go to,
and most of the time I was able to meet
the band's performers and get their autographs. Well, lucky you,
that is fantastic. Another the Jethro Tull concert at Red
Rocks in nineteen seventy one was history. I could just imagine,

(01:03:52):
you know. One of the best things to do is
every so often to go down into the basement into
the music I am at Red Rocks.

Speaker 9 (01:04:04):
And to.

Speaker 4 (01:04:06):
Look at the wall, go through the wall on the
two sides of all the concerts where they list the names,
and it is amazing to see how much longer and
longer and longer the list get, particularly after like the
nineties and the two thousands, when they started having far
more freaking concerts. But back in the day, back in
the sixties, seventies, eighties, far fewer Red Rocks concerts, far

(01:04:30):
fewer than we have now. It's just amazing to look
at that wall and then one more, Jimmy, I remember
exactly where I was when I heard of Stevie's death.
I was working a retail job and could have a
radio while I worked. I was shocked to hear the news.
He was so young. Two thoughts. One, if I mean

(01:04:57):
remembering Stevie ray Vaughan's death is not some thing you'll forget.
I remember my father telling me about when he heard
the news. I was all of twenty five days old
when Stevie died in the helicopter crash after his concert
at Alpine Valley. First song I ever heard coming home
from the hospital as a newborn baby was his live version.

(01:05:19):
I think it was live at Mantro in eighty five
of Buddy Guy's Mary had a Little Lamb, which is
to this day Stevie's version live version is my favorite
song of all time. And Stevie was I just turned
thirty five over the weekend. Stevie was thirty five years
old when he died in the helicopter crash. So much

(01:05:39):
future ahead of him lost, And man, is it just sad?
We are very close twenty two days away from the
anniversary of his dad. Tragic tragic loss for music. I'm

(01:06:00):
Jimmy Sangenberger in for Mandy Connell today. We've got another
hour up ahead right here on KOA. Don't go anywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
The Mandy Connall Show is sponsored by Belle and Pollock
Accident and Injury Lawyers.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
No, it's Mandy connellyn on KOA.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Ninety one song got way.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
Then us through Free Andy Connall keeping sad ba where
oh where is the time?

Speaker 4 (01:06:40):
Lying by Jimmy Sangenberger here with you covering for Mandy
Connall today on koh A. I keep getting all these texts.
In the last hour we ended up talking about music
at Red Rocks. Just we're gonna move on, but keep
them coming because I love reading these stories about whether

(01:07:01):
it's Red Rocks or Stevie or Ravon. Although I am
sad that there's a listener who texted and they don't
know who Steve Ravon was, I would contend he's the
best guitarist to ever live, or at least he's in
the top three or five. Died in the helicopter crash
August twenty seventh, nineteen ninety Alpine Valley. He shouldn't have

(01:07:22):
gotten in the helicopter was Cloudy Night. Eric Clapton was
supposed to be in that originally and he didn't. Then
Stevie got in because he was in a rush to
get somewhere, and well it happened. So so sad once again.
Jimmy in four Mandy and Gosh, where to go? I've

(01:07:48):
got several things I've been wanting to talk about. Okay,
here's a question. Should the all knowing, all powerful federal
government be guiding people who benefit from social programs on
what foods that they eat or should it be up
to the individual to decide for themselves what foods they want. Now,

(01:08:11):
if you're in the camp of RFK Junior and Jared Polis,
you would say that, yeah, the government should step in
and say, well, you can't use say SNAP benefits to
buy these certain foods. What do you say? Five sixty
six nine zero is the text number koa commic spirit
health text line. This is what RFK Junior Secretary of

(01:08:32):
Health and Human Services says.

Speaker 10 (01:08:34):
We're spending four hundred and five million dollars a day
on Snap and about ten percent is going to sugar
Bey drinks and between and if you add candies to
that it's about thirteen to seventeen percent. And we all
believe in free choice.

Speaker 4 (01:08:54):
We live in a democracy.

Speaker 10 (01:08:55):
People can make their own choice about what they're gonna
buy and what they're not gonna buy. If you want
to buy a sugary soda, you ought to be able
to do that.

Speaker 4 (01:09:04):
But the US taxpayers should not pay for it. And
the US taxpayers should not.

Speaker 10 (01:09:09):
Be paying to feed kids foods the forest kids in
our country with foods that are going to give them diabetes,
and then my agency ends up through Medicaid and Medicare
paying for those injuries. We're going to put an end
to that, and we're doing it step by step, state

(01:09:30):
by state.

Speaker 4 (01:09:32):
I'm a little torn on this one in the sense
that he's got a point. He's got a point that
the government is paying for this. Number one, they're the
front ends here, and number two, not just paying for
the sweets or the sugary drinks, but also paying for

(01:09:58):
the medical care later for the same people on snap. Generally, Medicaid,
Medicare and the costs of the healthcare system are increased
by the consumption of junk food and sugary drinks and
so forth. On the one hand, I get that it's

(01:10:21):
taxpayer money we're talking about, and you tax the healthcare
system more when people are less healthy, and people get
less healthy when they eat bad for you stuff, junk food.
But at the same time, why if the government's goal
here is to say, we are providing you with benefits

(01:10:42):
to be able to purchase food and drink, why doesn't
it seem like a nanny state at the same time
to micromanage that and say we're letting you get food,
but we're going to tell you what you can't buy,
which you can and can't buy. I mean that seems
a bit much. I have been in favor of taking

(01:11:06):
away welfare and replacing it with a what would be
called a negative income tax. It's not the same as
a universal basic income, but it's a negative income tax.
You make below a certain threshold, you get a check
from the government. Milton Friedman, the great late free market economist,

(01:11:27):
was one of the early purveyors of the idea of
the negative income tax, as far back as I think
the nineteen sixties. And I think that would be a
much better system for the federal government to provide aid
to people. I think that's public policy wise. The best
way to go. But here's the thing that means you

(01:11:51):
can't micromanage. It's like, we are going to trust the individuals.
We're going to give them the benefit, and we're gonna
let them spend that money they see fit and if
they make mistakes, if they waste the money, okay. But
better to say we're going to give you a lump
sum and let you decide and based on a specific formula,

(01:12:15):
then to say, here are all the little programs that
we're offering, from snap to welfare to you name it,
because there's so many different kinds of welfare programs. Quite frankly,
any of these kinds of programs. Better to let the
people decide and give them the account the self accountability,

(01:12:38):
then to have it micromanaged by the government, which also
requires more bureaucracy and may bring about more government programs
like we have so many. When it comes to helping
the poor and the end egen I agree in general,
like look that the text coming in on this point,

(01:13:00):
I absolutely agree they shouldn't be able to use government
funds for junk food. If they want that, they can
use their own money, absolutely not. If you're on government benefits,
then we get to dictate how you get to spend them.
Why though, because it's taxpayer money, we're going to suddenly
micromanage people. So they're not only dependent on the government,

(01:13:20):
which we want to decrease dependency. They're dependent on the government,
but we're also going to say that when you are
dependent on the government, we get to control your life
even more. I don't know. I mean, I get what
you're saying, but these are the differences that I have,

(01:13:42):
or rather, this is the struggle I have between the
two personal choice. Letting you make that determination. Sure you
get access to the aid, but you decide how to
spend that aid, versus, Oh, taxpayers are footing the bills,
so it's appropriate for us to micromanage that. I just
I really am comfortable with the idea, even if they're dependent,

(01:14:03):
especially if they're dependent on the government, to then say,
not only you're dependent on the government, but the nanny
state that's providing you with the benefits is going to
micromanage how you live your life. Jimmy, it's no different
than farmers who take government subsidies. I have farmed all
my life and never taken a dime from the federal government. Therefore,

(01:14:25):
They have no authority to tell me what or what
not to grow and how much of my ground have
to have in crop or not take the federal money
expect them to dictate terms. I get that. But one
of the problems is that you have a cycle of
dependency that is brought on by a government nanny state
that forces them into this position for and that's part

(01:14:49):
of the it's baked into the system. They want you
dependent on the government and entrenched and in a cycle
of poverty makes you continually relying on the government. This
is one of the good reasons why in this kind
of goes to your point about strings attached. Everybody. The
point about strings attached does fit medicaid work requirements. You're

(01:15:11):
gonna get medicaid, you're gonna work. Okay, I'm totally for that.
I think that's appropriate. That's a that is a qualification
where if you are able to work, you should work.
For able bodied you should get a job, and that
will be one of the requirements for you to get
the benefit. I think that's exactly right. But that's setting

(01:15:33):
a standard for obtaining the benefit. It's not restricting how
you use the benefit because you can use it for
all kinds of different conditions in medicaid and so forth,
although of course then there's well, there's certain things medicaid
won't cover fair enough. I don't know. To me, this
is not cut and dry. It at least makes me
very uncomfortable. While I sympathize with the position of RFK Junior,

(01:15:54):
and I'm not saying I al right oppose it, it
makes me uncomfortable that we want to hold these that
these people are dependent and we're going to micromanage the dependency.
That just to me, that adds the feeling of the
nanty state even more. I'm Jimmy Sangenberger in for Mandy Connell.
Boy oh boy, time flying by. We'll pick it up
on the other side right here in Kaoa reacts. Amazing place,

(01:16:19):
as we've been discussing for a while this afternoon, amazing,
amazing place to see a concert. Now. I love getting
a flurry of messages that I just want to say,
is interesting koa Common Spirit Health Online for five six
six nine zero text line all kinds of texts about

(01:16:39):
the move by RFK Junior to limit the consumption of
sugary drinks and candy by those who receive snap benefits,
making a lot of points about the examples of wastefulness
from people who are doing this and candy chips. Apparently

(01:17:02):
at least somebody claiming beer I didn't know that you could.
I didn't am. My understanding was he couldn't buy beer
with snap benefits. By either way, Look, I'm not saying
that you shouldn't have this restriction from the federal government.
I'm saying I'm uncomfortable with it because when you're micromanaging
people's lives that are already dependent on the government. And

(01:17:24):
I'm not talking about businesses in this case, I'm talking
about individuals for living their lives depending on the government,
I just get uncomfortable by. But I'm not saying we
shouldn't do it. And I appreciate the comparisons to some
of the farm subsidies and businesses that get money because
you're right, strings attached for a reason, and medicaid. You

(01:17:45):
want to get medicaid, you gotta work. Okay, good, I'm
all for it. It's a fascinating moment though, in time
where we're having these discussions, isn't it. By the way,
Shameless plug twenty four seven, three sixty five, you can
check out my latest content at and also reach out
to yours truly on my website Jimmy Sangenburger dot com,

(01:18:09):
which is all new, brand new website out today Jimmy
Sangenburger dot com. All ease, all the time in Sangenburger.
There's no AI or you. Once you know that Sangenburger
is easy, check out the new site. I think it's
it's pretty swanky. As we rock and roll along here

(01:18:32):
on KOA, Jimmy Sangenberger in for Mandy Connell and I
just real quick. Joy Reid was talking about on MSNBC
last night the conspiracy theories regarding Russia Gate, and now
there's a grand jury investigation that's been launched into the

(01:18:57):
Russia Gates stuff that's come out. Pambin saying that attorney
in the AG's office is going to be taking on
this case. And I really think we didn't get to
it today we've been so busy, But I really think
it's a good idea that she goes the root of
a grand jury in this particular case, because then you

(01:19:18):
can sort of suss it out and hold people accountable,
and you know, you'll you'll see if there's merit to
the case in that way. I just there's a lot
of reasons why I think it's smart, but I just
want to play this real quick. Joy Read not long
ago was viewing her own conspiracy theory about twenty twenty four.

Speaker 8 (01:19:35):
They even talking about like stealing an election, and it's like,
you rethink whether I do believe like election machines can
be hacked.

Speaker 4 (01:19:43):
I've always been like, you can't hack the election machines.
But they're like convincing me. I don't know, maybe you can't.
I don't know. A wow all this time, Oh no way,
no way, but Republicans old they might rig the election.
What's going on world today is crazy. When we come back,
there is now a cause for canonization effort to potentially

(01:20:08):
make a Saint Kendrick Castillo, that, of course, is the
hero eighteen years old gave his life twenty nineteen in
the stem School shooting in Highlands Ranch. We'll talk with
the Reverend Patrick di Loretto, who joins us on the
other side, who's one of the priests at Saint Mark's

(01:20:30):
Catholic Church, which is spearheading this canonization effort. It's going
to be really interesting. Keep it here on KOA somebody
who got out the boat, who sacrificed himself so much
so he sacrificed himself for his fellow students, giving his
life during a terrifying school shooting in twenty nineteen May

(01:20:58):
of twenty nineteen at Stem School and Highlands Ranch. Was
eighteen year old Kendrick Castillo. A true hero in the
fullest sense of the word. And he's always just been,

(01:21:22):
I think, a guiding light for what it means to
be selfless, what it means to give of yourself in
this case as much as you can, giving his life,
saving fellow students and staff in the midst of terrifying

(01:21:42):
act of violence and terror. And now there's something very
remarkable afoot, and that is an effort that is beginning
the process to potentially bring sainthood for Kendrick Castillo as

(01:22:05):
a cause of canonization has begun in the Catholic Church,
stemming from Saint Mark Catholic Church in Highland's Ranch, which
is part of the Diocese of Colorado Springs. And I'm
a Catholic myself, and this, I think is a very
remarkable story, and I wanted to get a better understanding

(01:22:27):
of what's involved here, why and what it means and
entails so on and so forth, and thought, you know what,
why not invite someone from the Parashant. One of the
priests there is, in fact, Father Patrick de Loretto, and
he's kind enough to join us this afternoon to talk
about this cause of canonization for Kendrick Castillo. Father, Welcome

(01:22:53):
to KOA. It's good to talk with you.

Speaker 9 (01:22:56):
Thank you, Jermy, thank you for having me on today.

Speaker 4 (01:22:58):
Thank you for taking some time this afternoon. I really
appreciate it. Before we get to the reasons that we're
sort of motivating the cause of canonization, let's explain that
term cause of canonization and the term of sainthood in
the Catholic Church. What do those really mean?

Speaker 9 (01:23:19):
Yeah, great question. Cause of canonization is a process in
which the Church does a very thorough investigation in the
entire over the entire life of an individual and to
determine is this person they leave us a holy life
on earth? Are they somebody who we should emulate? And

(01:23:40):
the Church through its through its investigation, will encourage people, okay,
seek this person's intercession. If they are in fact in heaven,
their prayers should have a very powerful effect. And if
we have some miraculous event that happens from this and
it does have to be a confirmed miracle that has
happened that has to go through a board of doctors

(01:24:02):
and scientists to investigate it, to determine if there is
any natural reason for why this thing might have happened.
And if the Church gets two of those, then the
Church can say we are elevating this person to the
title of saint. They are somebody who the entire world
should look to as an example of how to follow
after Jesus Christ, and who, after living such a heroic life,

(01:24:24):
is now in heaven with him, and we should ask him,
as members of the body of the Body of Christ,
for his prayers to the heavenly, to our heavenly Father,
and to our Lord Jesus Christ.

Speaker 4 (01:24:34):
In that way then, or that similar vein why does
the Catholic Church have saints? And this goes back, of
course a very very long time.

Speaker 9 (01:24:45):
Oh, yes, very for the very foundings of the Church.
Saints are individuals who, again, as I said, are in heaven,
and as the Church and the members of the Body
of Christ, those here on earth are connected through that
sacramental mystery that is known as baptism. Those in heaven

(01:25:07):
are still members of the Church through that actismal sacraments
which they receive on earth, and therefore we are all
still connected with the Church. Here on earth is called
the Church militant, the church the pilgrim church that is
seeking to get its members into heaven, and those who
are in heaven already are called the Church victorious. Those

(01:25:28):
are the members who have, through the grace of Jesus Christ,
have come into heaven and are now beholding face to face.
And we all are couraged to pray for one another.
Both those here on earth and those in heaven are
current are constantly pray. Books we look to we would
look to our Lord saying there is more rejoicing in
heaven over one repentant sinner than ninety ninety I by

(01:25:50):
no need of repentance. Well, okay, those in heaven are
rejoicing over something that is happening on earth. They're very
clearly aware of it. And as our brothers and sisters
in heaven, they are courage They are following the commandments
of our Lord to pray for the all of the
members of the Body of Christ as we are here
on earth.

Speaker 4 (01:26:09):
Real quickly Reverend Patrick Delaretto of Saint Mark Church, Catholic
Church in Highland's Ranch. Just to sort of clear up,
there's a lot of misconceptions about the idea of praying
to saints. This similarly, for Mary the Mother of Jesus,

(01:26:29):
Mother of God, can you clarify when there may be
a prayer to say you forget something? My mom always
hays pray to Saint Anthony. But what that what that
really entails for Catholics?

Speaker 1 (01:26:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:26:46):
Is this?

Speaker 9 (01:26:46):
Is it the same principles If I ask you to
pray for me here on earth, is that I'm not
asking you by your own power, by your own authority
to work something miraculous. I'm asking you, as a member
of the Body of Christ, for me. So we get
a whole host of people interceding on it for a
particular intention to our heavenly Father, asking for a particular

(01:27:08):
thing to be done. And those in heaven are so
much closer to Him than we are here on earth,
and so we certainly wish to ask their intercession, saying, hey,
please ask this favor for me. And I'm certainly it
doesn't mean we're not going to be praying for it ourselves,
but we want to get as many people as possible
praying for a particular intention, of course, disposing ourselves to

(01:27:31):
the will of God, but getting as many people to
pray for an intention as possible is always a great
thing to have.

Speaker 4 (01:27:37):
Sure, So let's talk for a moment about the pathways
versus the process of canonization, the pathways towards sainthood and
the process of canonization, because there is a distinction there,
you were telling me, yes.

Speaker 9 (01:27:54):
There is. There are three pathways in which a cause
of canonization can be opened. Two of them are very traditional.
The very first one is living a life of heroic virtue,
which is all right, maybe you didn't have an extraordinary
death which you lay down your life for our Lord,

(01:28:14):
such as martyrdom, which is the other, the other traditional pathway,
But you lived a life of just giving yourself over
to Christ, giving yourself over completely to Him in the
small things and in the big things. And this can
be seen through spiritual writings. We see this in persons
like Captain of Siano, or to Reds of the Sioux,

(01:28:35):
or Saint Anthony, where they gave themselves entirely throughout their
entire life over to Christ.

Speaker 5 (01:28:40):
And that is.

Speaker 9 (01:28:41):
Heroic and something that ought to be emulated. The other pathway,
as I mentioned, is martyrdom, in which you lay down
your life in defense of the faith, where somebody kills
you out of hatred for the Christian faith. And martyrs
certainly go back to the early Church. You see a
whole host of them or so famous and their writings
are so famous for us even today. But we certainly

(01:29:04):
have modern day mart martyrs as well as we look
to as like these are examples of heroic virtue in
times of incredible persecution that Christians ought to look at
as as as an example of hope of holding on
to our Lord Jesus Christ in the worst possible moments.
And the third and final halfway to Oman to coustic ananization,

(01:29:28):
which is the most recent one and was only allowed
by Pope Francis in twenty seventeen, is and I want
to say the exact wording here the offering of one's
life heroically, so laying down your life to save others,
but not necessarily out of defending the faith or martyrdom

(01:29:51):
per se. And this one we could look at you
as maybe an example of Kendrick where he fluly did
lay down his life, to protect his friends, the protect
his classmates and his teachers from this horrible student shooting.
But those are the three pathways.

Speaker 4 (01:30:08):
And in terms of pathways, it seems like that's sort
of the basis for a being canonized, as opposed to
say the process, which could last a very long time
and step by step, and we'll talk about the process
and in just a moment, Father Dealoretto. But I do
want to ask in terms of Kendrick Castillo and this, this, this,

(01:30:30):
the pathways that you just explained about offering of one's
life heroically is a pathway that seems sort of the
most likely pathway for him. How has this been presented
to the Diocese of Colorado Springs to say, hey, we
would like you Bishop Golka, the Bishop of the Diocese

(01:30:52):
of Colorado Springs, to consider this.

Speaker 9 (01:30:56):
Yeah, so when we hear it, say, Mark submitted our
eighty page petition.

Speaker 4 (01:31:01):
To Bishop Golca.

Speaker 9 (01:31:02):
We included in their circumstantial evidence for all three potential
pathways for opening a cause. And we included all those
because it is truly the bishop's prerogative to discern which
one of these, if any am I going to pursue
If I opened this cause for canonization, and we wanted

(01:31:22):
to give him as much information as possible and as
well as much as you can in a in a
concise form of lady pages, but giving him that information,
and ultimately it's up for him to decide, Yeah, which
one am I going to investigate more to pursue, because
especially heroic virtue that you need to look at all

(01:31:44):
of Kendrick's writings throughout his entire life, and it takes
a long, crop long investigation into that before you can
send it on to the Vatican. So it's it's all
three are in Bishop Goolca's court, and we certainly don't
want to try to restrict him on any of those.

Speaker 4 (01:32:03):
Sure, so real quickly we'll just sum up what's the
process here for the potential canonization of somebody as a saint?
And how long can it take?

Speaker 3 (01:32:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (01:32:14):
So what has to start initially as a bishop or
religious superior has to look at an individual and say
I want to open a copse. And if there's what
we call a cult of veneration, which means there's a
popular piety amongst the people of God to seek somebody's intercession,

(01:32:34):
that is a great sign that there would be support
amongst the people of God to raise somebody up to
the title of sainthood. And that's where we're at right
now with Kendrick Castillo. Not that the Bishop Bold has
opened the cause formally yet, but right now we're testing
the waters seeing if there is in fact that movement
amongst the people of God to seek his intercession and

(01:32:56):
to want to raise him up to be a saint.
And certainly has been a lot of very positive momentum
in that regard. And then once it causes officially opened
and it is approved by the bishop and it is
being sent on to Rome, the person is immediately granted
the title of servants of God. Now, servant of God

(01:33:18):
means that your cause for caanization is officially open. A
diocese or religiousorder is actively pursuing having you Canada, and
the Vatican is going to be investigating and looking through
all the materials presented to it. And there are a
ton of materials that goes into these cases. And once
the Vatican comes back with a decision on the person's life, if,

(01:33:42):
for example, if you're looking at her own virtue, they're
going to go through all of those papers. They're going
to go through all the writings, and if they come
back with a favorable physician saying yes he did in
fact or she in fact lived a heroic life, we
are going to call her venerable. Is not saying the
person is in heaven, but merely that they are in fact,

(01:34:04):
they were heroic, they were virtuous, and they should be
somebody to there, somebody that we should ought to admire
or for their virtue and their heroic or their heroic actions.
And then if somebody is declared a martyr, they don't
need a miracle to be called. What's so they receive
the next title, which is called blessed. Blessed the church

(01:34:27):
is officially saying, yes, this person is absolutely in heaven.
We are affirming this and this local area like the
dice of the color of Springs or the United States.
This is an example for you all in your country
how to live a heroic and virtuous life in order
to inform yourself to Jesus Christ. If they are not

(01:34:52):
declared to martyrs, then they need to have at least
one confirmed miracle. And again it's a very arduous process
to have a miracle confirmed by the b So once
they get that miracle again, all bless it for saint.

Speaker 8 (01:35:06):
They need to have two.

Speaker 9 (01:35:08):
They need to have to confirmed miracles. And at that point,
again the church will say, all universal Christians throughout the world,
we are saying, this person is an example for all
of you of how to live a virtuous life in
conformity of Jesus Christ.

Speaker 4 (01:35:25):
It's really interesting. Again we're talking with Reverend Patrick di
Loretto of Saint Mark Catholic Church in Highland's Ranch, which
has requested that Bishop James R. Golka of the Diocese
of Colorado Springs consider this cause of canonization, presenting an
eighty page packet laying a lot of this out. It
is really interesting getting an understanding of this because when

(01:35:49):
you see a headline such as from uh, you know
a place like you know, any local TV station saying
Colorado teen Kendrick Castile could become a saint. Is the
question why? How? What's involved? And I appreciate you playing
that out. A final question for you before we let
you go, what can people do if they feel supportive

(01:36:09):
or call to back to this cause. What can they
do to support it? And do you need to be
Catholic in that way?

Speaker 9 (01:36:17):
Well, first and foremost prayer and You don't need to
be Catholic in order to pray. If you see the
value in having a symbol of virtue somebody in modern times,
for young and all the like, to give them hope
that you know, even in the modern world, there is
a virtue. There are people striving after Christ. That is

(01:36:37):
not wrong to pray that somebody might be shown to
be an example for that. And for those who are
who feel so called, I would encourage you seek kendricks intercession,
asking him for favors. He loves to introduce to people
of the prayer. He loves to introduce people to the faith.
Maybe if you have a friend who's been away from

(01:36:59):
the faith, maybe if you have a friend who's struggling
with the faith, maybe ask his interception, ask him to
help that friend or that family member to bring them
closer to Jesus, to bring him closer to Christ through
kind of prayer and desession. And I think that's one
of the best things you can do. And if you
feel also called, you can certainly write a letter to

(01:37:20):
Bishop Golka and say, hey, your excellency, I think this
is a praise worthy endeavor. I certainly support opening this
cause for canonization. Know of my prayers for you, and
if your discernment, this is not in any of course
to try to like twist his arm, but just to
show him, yes, there is the support amongst the people

(01:37:41):
of God to open this cause. And some people will
say this might take centuries, and it could, but it
also looking at the example of Carlo Acutas who died
in two thousand and six, it could just take a day.
He's getting canonized in September. So yeah, God, let this
be done according to his will.

Speaker 4 (01:38:00):
Fascinating Well, Father Patrick Deloretto of Saint Mark Church, I
really appreciate you taking some time. I am friends with
I have become and had the honor of becoming friends
with John and Maria Castillo, Kendrick's parents, and I look
at the legacy that he left behind and it is

(01:38:20):
truly rich. And we have such a powerful example from
the life that Kendrick Castile led and that is embodied
in the way in which he sacrificed his life for others.
And so really appreciate the request for this cause of
canonization and appreciate you laying this out for us.

Speaker 9 (01:38:38):
Thank you so much, absolutely, Blaguer, thank you again for
having me on and gonna.

Speaker 4 (01:38:42):
Bless you all you as well. Thank you very much,
Father Patrick Deloretto joining us. Really appreciate it. That is
it for me today. Oh my gosh, the time has
flown right on by. Thanks so much for joining us.
I'll see you next time. Thanks for the opportunity as well.
Mandy Connell, very glad that you're recovering well from surgery

(01:39:04):
last week and that all is well. See you back
next Monday in the share Mandy, and for everyone listening,
thanks so much for joining me the last couple of days.
And as I always like to close, May God bless America.