August 11, 2025 • 20 mins
POLIS HATES OIL AND GAS AND IS INTENT ON DESTROYING THAT PART OF OUR ECONOMY And the Rocky Mountain Voice has been doing a series on just how much he hates it and just how much damage has been done to our industry here because of it. Rocky Mountain Voice editor Jen Schumann joins me at 1 to talk about the series of article, which you can find here, and here, and here. The damage is far worse that you might already think, and he does not care how much our power bills are because he's rich. Too bad the rest of us aren't. The long and short of it is that Polis has empowered ordered a few agencies to go after small oil and gas producers. It makes sense, as the bigger oil and gas companies would have already filed the federal lawsuit that one smaller provider is now pursuing. Put the little guys out of business and it's easier to deal with the big ones I guess. I'm very interested to see how this federal lawsuit pan out, but this is absolute abuse of government power and it's all being done at the behest of the Governor. I've got Rocky Mountain Voice Editor Jen Schumann on today to talk about it at 1.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joining me now.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
She is the editor of the Rocky Mountain Voice. And
if you're not looking at the Rocky Mountain Voice every day,
you are absolutely missing out not some of the most
interesting stories that are happening in the Colorado area and
around the country.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
But also I love.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
The commentary on Rocky Mountain Voice because you don't hear
from the same kind of groupthink stale opinions. Now, don't
get me wrong, I don't agree with all of them.
As a matter of fact, they're probably i'd say.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Half and half.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Sometimes I can pick apart some of this stuff in
some of the columns, but it's interesting to hear a
different perspective and a different sort of viewpoint. So that
was my way of sucking up to Jen Shuman, who
is joining me now. She's the editor of the Rocky
Mountain Voice. But I mean that, Jen, I really have
come to look forward to reading the columns at the
(00:51):
Rocky Mountain Voice more than anything, because they do come.
I mean, they're mostly right center, right, with a few
crazy outliers here and there, but it's very interesting and
I feel like we're almost hearing what like the common
man says.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
So you know, thank you, so much for saying that, Mandy,
And it's so great to be here with you today
and with the audience that you have.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
And did you hear that Colorado?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Because most of our commentaries that come from grassroots voices,
and so if you have something to say, we would
love to get your voice out And if you want
to send a commentary to us, you can send that
to us at info at Rockymountain Voice dot com. Just
a couple of quick you know, just a quick heads
(01:38):
up one like what are we looking for? Well, you
have a voice to share what's going on in your
local community, what's going at the state level, at the
national level.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
We cover all three of those categories.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
We take those submissions from everyone, and it's I agree
with you, Mandy. I love looking at my inbox to
see who is sending in something from somewhere in Colorado.
Who who wants to use their voice to help people
be aware of what's going on.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, I highly recommend at Rocky Mountain Voice dot com.
If for nothing else, just go and do that. But
I would strongly recommend you hop over there today and
you can do so on a link on my blog
because there are three news articles that Jen did you
write these, Jen.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yes, manage Okay, so Jen wrote these.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I don't want to give you too much credit if
you didn't deserve it, but three different articles that are
in my mind, and I said this to Jen off
the air, like rationally, I'm like, how am I even surprised?
How is this remotely surprising? And yet I found myself
genuinely shocked at some of the stuff that is in
(02:43):
these articles when it comes to the level of involvement
between Jared Polis and the agencies that oversee oil and
gas and how he is using them, in my view,
to punish industries that he disagrees with, and that is
that's be on the pale right. It doesn't matter if
it's a Republican governor doing it or a democratic governor
(03:05):
doing it. When you're using an agency to specifically target
an industry you personally don't like, I have a real
problem with that. Now, let's talk about what's in the articles.
Let's start with article one. What is article one about?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Article one is how two municipalities, the towns of Dacano
and Frederick, they filed a complaint with ECMC and that
they evoked Rule to eleven, which is a rule that
is usually for abandoned and plugged wells that they're may
be causing an issue and they need to be plugged,
(03:40):
or they're already plugged they're abandoned, or also for wells
that people want to claim have an adverse effect on
the public health, the environment, so on. And so they
followed this complaint the two towns and they filed it
in September of twenty twenty four and it has been
and I mean it's been a year of basically hearings
(04:04):
and litigation.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
It's on part with litigation, and they just had their ruling.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
The ECMC ruled on this matter on June twenty sixth
this year, and the cities asked for I think it
was forty five wells to be plugged. The ECMC ordered
three of them to be plugged, but they left the
door open to say, well, you know, KPK is such
a poor operator, they are derelict in their duty.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
They don't they're not compliant.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
And these are supposed to be neutral commissioners who are
supposed to hear all sides.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
And they do try to say that as well.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I will say that, but they also say the KPK
is poor operator and if you look at the history
of KPK with ECMC, they have felt that way for
a very long time because they have gone after KPK
in ways that we cannot even fit into this section,
into this segment.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
So let me stop right there. We got two sets
of initials that I want to clarify. The ECMC is
one of the boards that oversees oil and gas permitting,
processing all of that stuff in Colorado. They are the
ones that are going out and inspecting well sites and
doing that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Is that correct? I just want to make sure I
have that.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Right, yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
But one thing I would clarify is that ECMC it
used to be the Colorado Oil and Gas Commission and
CoGGC is what it used to be known as it
got rebranded in July, I believe, of twenty twenty three
to where it.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Broadened its base to be all energy.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
And also to have a policy agenda framework where they're
basically regulating and issuing orders based off of climate change agenda.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So something that people have to understand. And you lay
this out in the article, and this is why I
really want people to go read these because there's three
of them, and there's so much information in each of them.
But I want to come back to KPK for just
a moment. Okay, this is an oil and gas company
that was founded by a man, certainly not the biggest
player in Colorado by any stretch of the imagination. From
(06:13):
the data that you provided in one of the other articles,
they appear, at least on paper, to have a better
safety record, a more responsive safety record when it comes
to things like leaks. They fix things faster, they don't
miss reports.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
They on paper, with all of the data.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Provided by the state, they seem to be a pretty
good oil and gas company.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Why or how?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
And we'll get into the conversation where Jared Poulis said
to the owner of this company, why do you think
they're targeted? After doing all of this, do you have
any kind of idea of why this company specifically is
being targeted?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
In my opinion, and the only reason you preface that
by saying that they have they are compliant, they clean
up quick quickly all the things that they do, and
by comparison to some other operators is because they had
to go and get an independent analysis and they've done
I think a couple of these.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
To actually show Hey, here we are. We're not any
worse than any other operator.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
In fact, let's get into the details if you want
to compare us. Here's what we're doing and how we're
doing a good job. Because ECMC didn't see them that way. ECMC,
the ruling body was biased. And so why possibly, just
to come back to your last question, would they possibly
target this one independent, family owned well a gas company
(07:45):
they started in nineteen eighty four. My personal opinion is
that they picked this company as.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
A guinea pig, as a guinea pig to throw the
book at them.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
And if they can is all of their rules fueled
by their personal agenda to put an oil and gas
company out of business, then they know that they have
their game plan that they can then do that with
other companies.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I agree wholeheartedly.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
My entire takeaway from this thing was they went after
KPK specifically because they were a smaller operator. They don't
have endless money like Chevron or one of the And
I'm not knocking Chevron, by the way, I'm just saying,
when you go after Chevron, they've got weight you out money. Right,
they can just wait out this administration and then they'll
be very invested in the next election cycle. Right, This
(08:36):
is what I don't understand about oil and gas. I
don't understand why oil and gas is not absolutely playing
in every single race in the United in the United States,
but especially in Colorado. And by playing, I mean supporting
candidates that will actually, you know, work with oil and
gas instead of trying to put it out of business.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I think you're totally right. They're just going to hone
the game.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Plan on this old company to take it to the
big companies going forward.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I mean, it's just it's shameful and it's so blatant.
Jen tell the story.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
About when Governor Jered Poulis met the owner of the
founder of KPK.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Sure So, Kevin Kaufman.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
He heard that Jared Poulis that he wanted to I
believe it was Senate Bill one eighty one.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
He flew to d C.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
It was when Polis Actually it wasn't Senate Bill one
eighty one, but he flew to d C when Jared
Poulis was a congressman because he had a particular stance
on Olan gas and he tried to talk to him
about what, you know, energy, oil and gas can be
done in a way that is that is not harmful,
harmful to the environment. We've been innovative, we've made great steps.
(09:47):
And Jared Polus allegedly told Kevin Kaufman oil and gas
is not good for the state of Colorado. Coloradon's don't
want it. We're going we're going to get rid of
oil and gas out of call Colorado, and we're going
to start with you. So Kevin decided to invite a
group of oil gas producers to a restaurant in Denver
(10:09):
shortly thereafter, and this is in a federal amended complaint
that was filed on August first, and he makes these
claims in this complaint and he says that he invited
other oil and gas producers and Jared Polis and just
to see if Jared Poulis would repeat that, and he
did in the company of these ol and gas producers
(10:29):
and said the same exact thing. We're going to get
rid of oil and gas. It's bad for Colorado. Colorado's
don't want it. And he pointed at Kevin and said,
starting with you.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Somebody just asked this on the text line and it
might be an interesting follow up for you. Jen did
k p Kaufman, Did they frack the well right behind
Jared's vacation home. And I don't know if you knew
about this, Jen, Do you know about that big kerfuffle?
And I do think there's an element of revenge here
because when Jared Polis was a congressman, he bought a
fake Haitian home because living in builders too stressful, and they,
(11:05):
you know, they freckd it well next to his place,
and he got super angry about it and made big
hay about it.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
And I swear this is part of it.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
I remember the story.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Somebody recently sent this to me that is totally who
lives in Douglas County and was trying to tell me
polus is bad for the state of Colorado. And I said, boy,
do I know that? Yes, And it's an old story.
I don't remember the year. But what I recall also
is that he was upset about how it messed up
his view, his view of his beautiful land. That's this,
(11:39):
you know, oil rig there and how dare them?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
You know. I want to tell everybody to go and
read these stories, because it really is something to see
that we now have a governor who, in my view,
based on what you told me, because you guys also
unearthed some interesting comments for regulatory members of the Regulatory
Commission were they were pretty open about, you know, doing
basically doing the bidding of Governor Polis, like he was
(12:06):
directing how things were going to go.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yes, So I came across this ECMC hearing meeting video
where the chair of ECMC, Jeff Robbins, is spending quite
a bit of time talking about how he just received
a letter from Jared Polis, and I believe the date is.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
July twenty twenty three, where.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
He says, Jared poulis, you know, we've gotten to this
certain point where we are. You know, we've got our
mission with ECMC, and we've gotten to this point where
we're putting rules in place. We've passed legislation, the state
legislature has helped us, and now we have to raise
the bar towards the mission of phasing out or transitioning
(12:52):
away from the state's dependence on oil and gas. And
he went into I think it was three different objectives
of what needs to be done next and how there's
going to be rules coming into place, and he even
named a time frame of a certain point in the year,
and I believe it was in the fall of twenty
twenty four that we need to have these rules in place,
(13:14):
and so it's very policy driven, it's very agenda driven.
And when you look at what this company is faced
all along the way. I mean, the backstory on this
is this has been going on with KPK for quite
a while. I gotten the opportunity to visit their field
office and spoken to Kevin Kaufman and Jeffrey Kaufman many times,
(13:39):
and Jeffrey is his son, and Jeffrey at one point
he showed me his phone and he said, look, how
many notices of inspection failures we've gotten right here, And
he just went through and just scrolled through his phone
and he's starting to try to count them up and
how many days, how many he's gotten.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
And you'll see in some of these court documents.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Is that what used to be maybe three notices of
violation or inspection notices a month has gone up to
about fifty a month, sometimes as many as seventeen a day.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
And they even have former.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Staff who filed affidavits to talk about how they were
told don't come back to the office unless you've filed
a notice a violation on this company.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
That to me, should be the lead story in every newspaper.
It should be the lead story everywhere. But unfortunately, our
local news media doesn't seem to show much interest in
stories of this magnitude. And I'm hoping that your work
at the Rocky Mountain Voice will force them to start
asking questions as well, because if there's a logical explanation,
(14:50):
I'd love to hear it, and I'm sure you guys
would too. Did you reach out to the players on
the state side, and what kind of response.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Did you get?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
We did reach out to the Governor's office for a comment,
and as of yet, we have not.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Received over po shocking.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
I mean, I for one am this is my shocked face,
Jen shocked.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Shocked. Now, so tell me about the lawsuit.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Now, there is a lawsuit in federal court by KPK.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (15:20):
So the law suord is?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
The lawsuit lays out some allegations.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Number one that Jared.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Polis stated this to Kevin Coffman twice, once one on
one and second in the company of other ol producers.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
So this company has been targeted. But there's also.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Claims that there are constitutional violations that have happened. And
one of them is the Fifth Amendment, the takings clause,
and it basically the legal standard is the government cannot
take away private property for public use without just compensation.
There's an Eighth Amendment argument also excessive fines. Maybe that
has something to deal with the one hundred and thirty
(16:01):
three million financial assurance that the ECMC find on KPK
and basically also at the same time took away their
license to operate and shut down their operation. There's also
an argument of Fourteenth Amendment, the Equal Protection Clause that
basically you can't.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Have selective enforcement. You can't just sue one little private operator.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
In the hopes that you take them down and you
put everybody else in notice. There's also a Fourteenth Amendment
substance to due process claim and then fourteenth Amendment and
the Fourteenth Amendment one is before depriving someone, there needs
to be a meaningful opportunity to be heard. I don't
know if they have that realistically, when you have ECMC
(16:45):
commissioners telling them this is a recalcatrant and uncompliant operator.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah. Jen Schuman is my guest.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
She is the editor of the Rocky Mountain Voice and
there's great articles in this today. You know the thing
that gets me the most and for people, and I
have some people on the text line saying things like
shut them all down, oh walk if I have to
screw these companies, all of them destroying land, poisoning water
and buying all the politicians. But the reality is, sir
or madam, that all of the stuff that's in your store,
(17:17):
all of your Amazon orders, all of that stuff, it
doesn't get to your house because of fairy dust and
unicorn farts. Okay, So it's not just about you being
willing to pay ten dollars a gallon and walk, I
don't care. It's about everything in our society running on
oil and gas. You nimrod no offense. But come on,
(17:38):
you can't be that daft. You cannot be that devoid
of understanding of how the world works. And we haven't
even started jen to talk about the just precipitous crash
of oil and gas revenues.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
We now have a one point two.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Billion dollars shortfall, and oil and gas revenues have fallen
off a cliff for the state.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
That's a whole other issue that we haven't even gotten into.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Text are I mean where are we going to come
up with another three hundred million dollars to make up
that hole this year? And that's the reality of what
we're facing in Colorado, and every bit of it will
be self inflicted. And that's what's so absolutely shameful. Jenna,
let you have the last word.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Well, and I wanted to say two things. Well, one
of them is we were talking before I came on
air about how this really impacts local communities or this
state in terms of revenue loss because of this anti
oil and gas agenda. So I just did a quick query,
and this is just one company, an estimate for twenty
twenty four revenue, how it impacts the local community said
(18:43):
that local property tax add WALRM taxes amounts to almost
one hundred and fifty to one hundred and eighty million
to counties and that goes to school districts, special districts
where that ol company operates. And so when you obliterate
an company from operating in Colorado, that impacts every single Colorado.
(19:04):
And the second point I wanted to make was that
it sounds like I was picking on Chevron, and it
really it wasn't picking on Chevron.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
When I brought up Chevron in the article.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
It was because I just happened to come across listening
to this long hearing where in the afternoon they ruled
against KPK. They showed down three of their wells. They
talked about how they were just a poor operator. In
the morning, they had a hearing with Chevron. And this
is the whole reason I brought it up. They had
a hearing with Chevron because there was an emergency incident.
(19:35):
There was an emergency incident, and I got to hear
the commissioner's tones. They were so gracious, they were so
collaborative with Chevron. They were just falling over themselves saying, I.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Just know you're handling this. We're here to help you.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
There was no punitive tone at all, and it.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Was just like it was shocking opposite.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
It was completely opposite to the demeanor that they have
with four k KPK.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Jen Shuman, thank you for the articles. They're fantastic. Everybody
should go to Rocky Mountain Voice and read them. I
put a link on my blog to make it easy
for people to get there. Jen, thanks so much for
your time today.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Thank you so much. You guys, take care
Joining me now.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
She is the editor of the Rocky Mountain Voice. And
if you're not looking at the Rocky Mountain Voice every day,
you are absolutely missing out not some of the most
interesting stories that are happening in the Colorado area and
around the country.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
But also I love.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
The commentary on Rocky Mountain Voice because you don't hear
from the same kind of groupthink stale opinions. Now, don't
get me wrong, I don't agree with all of them.
As a matter of fact, they're probably i'd say.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Half and half.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Sometimes I can pick apart some of this stuff in
some of the columns, but it's interesting to hear a
different perspective and a different sort of viewpoint. So that
was my way of sucking up to Jen Shuman, who
is joining me now. She's the editor of the Rocky
Mountain Voice. But I mean that, Jen, I really have
come to look forward to reading the columns at the
(00:51):
Rocky Mountain Voice more than anything, because they do come.
I mean, they're mostly right center, right, with a few
crazy outliers here and there, but it's very interesting and
I feel like we're almost hearing what like the common
man says.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
So you know, thank you, so much for saying that, Mandy,
And it's so great to be here with you today
and with the audience that you have.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
And did you hear that Colorado?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Because most of our commentaries that come from grassroots voices,
and so if you have something to say, we would
love to get your voice out And if you want
to send a commentary to us, you can send that
to us at info at Rockymountain Voice dot com. Just
a couple of quick you know, just a quick heads
(01:38):
up one like what are we looking for? Well, you
have a voice to share what's going on in your
local community, what's going at the state level, at the
national level.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
We cover all three of those categories.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
We take those submissions from everyone, and it's I agree
with you, Mandy. I love looking at my inbox to
see who is sending in something from somewhere in Colorado.
Who who wants to use their voice to help people
be aware of what's going on.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, I highly recommend at Rocky Mountain Voice dot com.
If for nothing else, just go and do that. But
I would strongly recommend you hop over there today and
you can do so on a link on my blog
because there are three news articles that Jen did you
write these, Jen.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yes, manage Okay, so Jen wrote these.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I don't want to give you too much credit if
you didn't deserve it, but three different articles that are
in my mind, and I said this to Jen off
the air, like rationally, I'm like, how am I even surprised?
How is this remotely surprising? And yet I found myself
genuinely shocked at some of the stuff that is in
(02:43):
these articles when it comes to the level of involvement
between Jared Polis and the agencies that oversee oil and
gas and how he is using them, in my view,
to punish industries that he disagrees with, and that is
that's be on the pale right. It doesn't matter if
it's a Republican governor doing it or a democratic governor
(03:05):
doing it. When you're using an agency to specifically target
an industry you personally don't like, I have a real
problem with that. Now, let's talk about what's in the articles.
Let's start with article one. What is article one about?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Article one is how two municipalities, the towns of Dacano
and Frederick, they filed a complaint with ECMC and that
they evoked Rule to eleven, which is a rule that
is usually for abandoned and plugged wells that they're may
be causing an issue and they need to be plugged,
(03:40):
or they're already plugged they're abandoned, or also for wells
that people want to claim have an adverse effect on
the public health, the environment, so on. And so they
followed this complaint the two towns and they filed it
in September of twenty twenty four and it has been
and I mean it's been a year of basically hearings
(04:04):
and litigation.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
It's on part with litigation, and they just had their ruling.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
The ECMC ruled on this matter on June twenty sixth
this year, and the cities asked for I think it
was forty five wells to be plugged. The ECMC ordered
three of them to be plugged, but they left the
door open to say, well, you know, KPK is such
a poor operator, they are derelict in their duty.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
They don't they're not compliant.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
And these are supposed to be neutral commissioners who are
supposed to hear all sides.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
And they do try to say that as well.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I will say that, but they also say the KPK
is poor operator and if you look at the history
of KPK with ECMC, they have felt that way for
a very long time because they have gone after KPK
in ways that we cannot even fit into this section,
into this segment.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
So let me stop right there. We got two sets
of initials that I want to clarify. The ECMC is
one of the boards that oversees oil and gas permitting,
processing all of that stuff in Colorado. They are the
ones that are going out and inspecting well sites and
doing that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Is that correct? I just want to make sure I
have that.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Right, yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
But one thing I would clarify is that ECMC it
used to be the Colorado Oil and Gas Commission and
CoGGC is what it used to be known as it
got rebranded in July, I believe, of twenty twenty three
to where it.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Broadened its base to be all energy.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
And also to have a policy agenda framework where they're
basically regulating and issuing orders based off of climate change agenda.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So something that people have to understand. And you lay
this out in the article, and this is why I
really want people to go read these because there's three
of them, and there's so much information in each of them.
But I want to come back to KPK for just
a moment. Okay, this is an oil and gas company
that was founded by a man, certainly not the biggest
player in Colorado by any stretch of the imagination. From
(06:13):
the data that you provided in one of the other articles,
they appear, at least on paper, to have a better
safety record, a more responsive safety record when it comes
to things like leaks. They fix things faster, they don't
miss reports.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
They on paper, with all of the data.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Provided by the state, they seem to be a pretty
good oil and gas company.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Why or how?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
And we'll get into the conversation where Jared Poulis said
to the owner of this company, why do you think
they're targeted? After doing all of this, do you have
any kind of idea of why this company specifically is
being targeted?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
In my opinion, and the only reason you preface that
by saying that they have they are compliant, they clean
up quick quickly all the things that they do, and
by comparison to some other operators is because they had
to go and get an independent analysis and they've done
I think a couple of these.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
To actually show Hey, here we are. We're not any
worse than any other operator.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
In fact, let's get into the details if you want
to compare us. Here's what we're doing and how we're
doing a good job. Because ECMC didn't see them that way. ECMC,
the ruling body was biased. And so why possibly, just
to come back to your last question, would they possibly
target this one independent, family owned well a gas company
(07:45):
they started in nineteen eighty four. My personal opinion is
that they picked this company as.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
A guinea pig, as a guinea pig to throw the
book at them.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
And if they can is all of their rules fueled
by their personal agenda to put an oil and gas
company out of business, then they know that they have
their game plan that they can then do that with
other companies.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I agree wholeheartedly.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
My entire takeaway from this thing was they went after
KPK specifically because they were a smaller operator. They don't
have endless money like Chevron or one of the And
I'm not knocking Chevron, by the way, I'm just saying,
when you go after Chevron, they've got weight you out money. Right,
they can just wait out this administration and then they'll
be very invested in the next election cycle. Right, This
(08:36):
is what I don't understand about oil and gas. I
don't understand why oil and gas is not absolutely playing
in every single race in the United in the United States,
but especially in Colorado. And by playing, I mean supporting
candidates that will actually, you know, work with oil and
gas instead of trying to put it out of business.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I think you're totally right. They're just going to hone
the game.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Plan on this old company to take it to the
big companies going forward.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I mean, it's just it's shameful and it's so blatant.
Jen tell the story.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
About when Governor Jered Poulis met the owner of the
founder of KPK.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Sure So, Kevin Kaufman.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
He heard that Jared Poulis that he wanted to I
believe it was Senate Bill one eighty one.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
He flew to d C.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
It was when Polis Actually it wasn't Senate Bill one
eighty one, but he flew to d C when Jared
Poulis was a congressman because he had a particular stance
on Olan gas and he tried to talk to him
about what, you know, energy, oil and gas can be
done in a way that is that is not harmful,
harmful to the environment. We've been innovative, we've made great steps.
(09:47):
And Jared Polus allegedly told Kevin Kaufman oil and gas
is not good for the state of Colorado. Coloradon's don't
want it. We're going we're going to get rid of
oil and gas out of call Colorado, and we're going
to start with you. So Kevin decided to invite a
group of oil gas producers to a restaurant in Denver
(10:09):
shortly thereafter, and this is in a federal amended complaint
that was filed on August first, and he makes these
claims in this complaint and he says that he invited
other oil and gas producers and Jared Polis and just
to see if Jared Poulis would repeat that, and he
did in the company of these ol and gas producers
(10:29):
and said the same exact thing. We're going to get
rid of oil and gas. It's bad for Colorado. Colorado's
don't want it. And he pointed at Kevin and said,
starting with you.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Somebody just asked this on the text line and it
might be an interesting follow up for you. Jen did
k p Kaufman, Did they frack the well right behind
Jared's vacation home. And I don't know if you knew
about this, Jen, Do you know about that big kerfuffle?
And I do think there's an element of revenge here
because when Jared Polis was a congressman, he bought a
fake Haitian home because living in builders too stressful, and they,
(11:05):
you know, they freckd it well next to his place,
and he got super angry about it and made big
hay about it.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
And I swear this is part of it.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
I remember the story.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Somebody recently sent this to me that is totally who
lives in Douglas County and was trying to tell me
polus is bad for the state of Colorado. And I said, boy,
do I know that? Yes, And it's an old story.
I don't remember the year. But what I recall also
is that he was upset about how it messed up
his view, his view of his beautiful land. That's this,
(11:39):
you know, oil rig there and how dare them?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
You know. I want to tell everybody to go and
read these stories, because it really is something to see
that we now have a governor who, in my view,
based on what you told me, because you guys also
unearthed some interesting comments for regulatory members of the Regulatory
Commission were they were pretty open about, you know, doing
basically doing the bidding of Governor Polis, like he was
(12:06):
directing how things were going to go.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yes, So I came across this ECMC hearing meeting video
where the chair of ECMC, Jeff Robbins, is spending quite
a bit of time talking about how he just received
a letter from Jared Polis, and I believe the date is.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
July twenty twenty three, where.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
He says, Jared poulis, you know, we've gotten to this
certain point where we are. You know, we've got our
mission with ECMC, and we've gotten to this point where
we're putting rules in place. We've passed legislation, the state
legislature has helped us, and now we have to raise
the bar towards the mission of phasing out or transitioning
(12:52):
away from the state's dependence on oil and gas. And
he went into I think it was three different objectives
of what needs to be done next and how there's
going to be rules coming into place, and he even
named a time frame of a certain point in the year,
and I believe it was in the fall of twenty
twenty four that we need to have these rules in place,
(13:14):
and so it's very policy driven, it's very agenda driven.
And when you look at what this company is faced
all along the way. I mean, the backstory on this
is this has been going on with KPK for quite
a while. I gotten the opportunity to visit their field
office and spoken to Kevin Kaufman and Jeffrey Kaufman many times,
(13:39):
and Jeffrey is his son, and Jeffrey at one point
he showed me his phone and he said, look, how
many notices of inspection failures we've gotten right here, And
he just went through and just scrolled through his phone
and he's starting to try to count them up and
how many days, how many he's gotten.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
And you'll see in some of these court documents.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Is that what used to be maybe three notices of
violation or inspection notices a month has gone up to
about fifty a month, sometimes as many as seventeen a day.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
And they even have former.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Staff who filed affidavits to talk about how they were
told don't come back to the office unless you've filed
a notice a violation on this company.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
That to me, should be the lead story in every newspaper.
It should be the lead story everywhere. But unfortunately, our
local news media doesn't seem to show much interest in
stories of this magnitude. And I'm hoping that your work
at the Rocky Mountain Voice will force them to start
asking questions as well, because if there's a logical explanation,
(14:50):
I'd love to hear it, and I'm sure you guys
would too. Did you reach out to the players on
the state side, and what kind of response.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Did you get?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
We did reach out to the Governor's office for a comment,
and as of yet, we have not.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Received over po shocking.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
I mean, I for one am this is my shocked face,
Jen shocked.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Shocked. Now, so tell me about the lawsuit.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Now, there is a lawsuit in federal court by KPK.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (15:20):
So the law suord is?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
The lawsuit lays out some allegations.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Number one that Jared.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Polis stated this to Kevin Coffman twice, once one on
one and second in the company of other ol producers.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
So this company has been targeted. But there's also.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Claims that there are constitutional violations that have happened. And
one of them is the Fifth Amendment, the takings clause,
and it basically the legal standard is the government cannot
take away private property for public use without just compensation.
There's an Eighth Amendment argument also excessive fines. Maybe that
has something to deal with the one hundred and thirty
(16:01):
three million financial assurance that the ECMC find on KPK
and basically also at the same time took away their
license to operate and shut down their operation. There's also
an argument of Fourteenth Amendment, the Equal Protection Clause that
basically you can't.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Have selective enforcement. You can't just sue one little private operator.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
In the hopes that you take them down and you
put everybody else in notice. There's also a Fourteenth Amendment
substance to due process claim and then fourteenth Amendment and
the Fourteenth Amendment one is before depriving someone, there needs
to be a meaningful opportunity to be heard. I don't
know if they have that realistically, when you have ECMC
(16:45):
commissioners telling them this is a recalcatrant and uncompliant operator.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah. Jen Schuman is my guest.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
She is the editor of the Rocky Mountain Voice and
there's great articles in this today. You know the thing
that gets me the most and for people, and I
have some people on the text line saying things like
shut them all down, oh walk if I have to
screw these companies, all of them destroying land, poisoning water
and buying all the politicians. But the reality is, sir
or madam, that all of the stuff that's in your store,
(17:17):
all of your Amazon orders, all of that stuff, it
doesn't get to your house because of fairy dust and
unicorn farts. Okay, So it's not just about you being
willing to pay ten dollars a gallon and walk, I
don't care. It's about everything in our society running on
oil and gas. You nimrod no offense. But come on,
(17:38):
you can't be that daft. You cannot be that devoid
of understanding of how the world works. And we haven't
even started jen to talk about the just precipitous crash
of oil and gas revenues.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
We now have a one point two.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Billion dollars shortfall, and oil and gas revenues have fallen
off a cliff for the state.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
That's a whole other issue that we haven't even gotten into.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Text are I mean where are we going to come
up with another three hundred million dollars to make up
that hole this year? And that's the reality of what
we're facing in Colorado, and every bit of it will
be self inflicted. And that's what's so absolutely shameful. Jenna,
let you have the last word.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Well, and I wanted to say two things. Well, one
of them is we were talking before I came on
air about how this really impacts local communities or this
state in terms of revenue loss because of this anti
oil and gas agenda. So I just did a quick query,
and this is just one company, an estimate for twenty
twenty four revenue, how it impacts the local community said
(18:43):
that local property tax add WALRM taxes amounts to almost
one hundred and fifty to one hundred and eighty million
to counties and that goes to school districts, special districts
where that ol company operates. And so when you obliterate
an company from operating in Colorado, that impacts every single Colorado.
(19:04):
And the second point I wanted to make was that
it sounds like I was picking on Chevron, and it
really it wasn't picking on Chevron.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
When I brought up Chevron in the article.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
It was because I just happened to come across listening
to this long hearing where in the afternoon they ruled
against KPK. They showed down three of their wells. They
talked about how they were just a poor operator. In
the morning, they had a hearing with Chevron. And this
is the whole reason I brought it up. They had
a hearing with Chevron because there was an emergency incident.
(19:35):
There was an emergency incident, and I got to hear
the commissioner's tones. They were so gracious, they were so
collaborative with Chevron. They were just falling over themselves saying, I.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Just know you're handling this. We're here to help you.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
There was no punitive tone at all, and it.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Was just like it was shocking opposite.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
It was completely opposite to the demeanor that they have
with four k KPK.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Jen Shuman, thank you for the articles. They're fantastic. Everybody
should go to Rocky Mountain Voice and read them. I
put a link on my blog to make it easy
for people to get there. Jen, thanks so much for
your time today.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Thank you so much. You guys, take care
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