August 25, 2025 • 12 mins
HOUSE MINORITY LEADER ROSE PUGLIESE AT 12:30 She made time to record a quick interview this morning because they are in session when the show is on. You're gonna want to hear this one.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I am pleased to punch this morning to be talking
with House Minority Leader Rose Paglie. She is part of
the very strong and small group of determined Republicans trying
to actually do something to re do spending and it's
not going to happen in this special session. And Rose,
first of all, thanks for joining me. But second of all,
(00:20):
I didn't even look at the media coverage over the weekend,
right because I figured Monday, I'll just dip in, maybe.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
They'll have sorted it out, maybe they will have already
gabbled out the special session.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
And imagine my shock when I read this morning, not
only are they not close to gabbling out, like literally
nothing has been done. So tell me what has happened
in the first four days in your view.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Okay, so kind of as predicted, And thank you Mandy
for having me on so I can talk to your listeners.
As predicted, Republicans don't have any ideas. Only Democrats have ideas.
In this special session, all of our bills died the
first day, but they were kind of a little smarter,
you know, my very first special session, they'd killed all
of our bills by noon, and that was a great
(01:02):
talking point for us, but this time they spaced out committees,
so they were killed all on the first day but
past noon. So a bit creative on their part. But basically,
you know, this call was so narrow, and it basically
was to raise revenue and not necessarily to make cuts. Right,
there was no room for Republicans to bring forward bills
(01:22):
that made any sort of cuts. And if anything, what
we've seen now is that we are we came here
to solve the budget shortfall, and of course Democrats are
blaming it on HR one. Republicans are blaming it on
Democrat mismanagement of the budget throughout the years. But putting
even that aside, we have a budget shortfall. We need
to plug the hole. And so what are they going
(01:45):
to do. They're going to raise the most a billion,
a billion dollars in taxes on our small businesses. Are
hardworking moms and pops who are really struggling to survive
in Colorado anyway, So let's put more burden on them,
because you know, tax cuts means more money in their pockets,
so they should be giving it to state government instead
of federal government. And then we debated at Billy yesterday,
(02:08):
which says, if federal funding is cut from certain entities,
not just Planned Parenthood, but Planned Parenthood is one of
those entities that the state would fill that budget hole
for these organizations. So what we just did was we
came here to solve the budget hole, but we added
to the budget hole that we need to solve. So
(02:30):
only in Colorado does that make sense in this special session.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
So let me ask you about the bills that have
been sent to the governor, and let's start with the
one about Planned Parenthood, because when I saw that this morning,
I'm like, wait a minute. We have a one point
two billion dollars shortfall. So their solution is to make
sure that Planned Parenthood gets more money for abortions. And
I realize that it's not supposed to be for abortions,
but you and I both know money is fungible. So
(02:54):
anything that Planned Parenthood gets for STI testing or you know,
well woman visits, that's one dollar they can be shifted
over to abortion. I find it unsurprising and especially ghoulish
that the Democrats put making sure that we could kill
a babies in Colorado above all of the other spending
priorities that might be out there. I got to tell
you that blew my mind? Am I misreading this somehow?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Well, Mandy, it's about healthcare for Colorados who need it.
That those were the arguments that were made yesterday. And
you know, and I don't dispute the planned parenthood does
more than abortions. But as you said, money is pungeable
and so but I think like the crux of the
arguments we were making were we already have a budget hole.
(03:38):
We are continuing this budget hole, and we're we're growing it.
I just I don't know how how that works in
real life, because none of us can do that, right.
We can't just continue to spend out of control. And
the protections like the tax parabill of rights that you
know that you originally asked me about this morning, right,
how do they raise taxes without are the people? And
(04:01):
what they have said is, well, the vendor fees already
in place, so if we take it away, even though
it increases taxes, it's already been in place, so therefore
it doesn't require vote of the people. The hard part
for me, and I'm sure for your listeners when you
know when Proposition ahhe happened and the Democrats were trying
to take away the tax payabilla rights refunds. The people
(04:21):
said no, and they had that opportunity because it was
on the ballot. Right. In these cases, these bills will
go to the governor's desk, they will become a lot
in everything that leaves the capitals presumed to be constitutional.
So what does that mean. That means challenges in court,
and so then somebody has to challenge it in court,
and then we have to you know, and I'm an attorney,
(04:42):
I'm not knocking the judicial system, but someone will have
to decide and set precedence, which could be also very
scary for future you know, tax payabilla rights bills that
that might come forward. So it's been a really interesting session.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Let me ask thank you specifically about table refunds because
a couple of years ago we had three point two
billion dollar surplus. In the meantime, Democrats have slowly but
surely re alotted all of our table refunds to different
special projects that they wanted to pay off their constituents
or whatever. So they have eroded our table refund. I
think our table refund was supposed to be like seven
(05:20):
or eight dollars this year anyway, and now that's gone
now we have another bill that they sent to the
governor that says we're going to reallocate Healthy Meals for
All money, which is the free school lunch program, and
we're going to reallocate that to SNAP benefits. But the
problem is, it's my understanding that the Healthy Meals for
All program has been in the red the entire time
(05:43):
of its existence. It's never been fully funded. So is
that just like a cheat on paper? I don't even
understand why they do that.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
So it's really interesting to me because I said exactly
that yesterday. I said, listen, we have this Healthy Meals
for All program. We spent all last year, in all
last budget cycle. I'd done Republicans saying, hey, we have
to do better. Right, there's not enough money in this program.
How do we get healthy you know, meals. I'm not
gonna say healthy meals and I'll put a pin in
that for a second, But how do we get the
meals to the people who actually need it? Right? I
(06:13):
always say, I'm a single mom, I work three jobs.
I raised two kids all by myself. But I don't
need it, right. I work three jobs, and there are
a lot of people who work three jobs who really
truly can afford it, so let's make sure those meals
are getting to the appropriate people. I also have an
issue with the program in what we are feeding our children.
So after session ended, I told a story yesterday at
(06:33):
the well corn dogs. Corn dogs were for lunch and
I don't know. I don't normally feed my kids corn dogs.
But it doesn't seem like, if it's a Healthy Meals
for All program, that we're doing right by our children.
So we'll put a pin in that for a later conversation.
But for this special session, healthy Meals for All program
was going on the ballot. You know, Republicans didn't vote
(06:55):
for it, Democrats did. It was going on the ballot
just to fund that program that was Oready at a shore.
There was talks about means testing it, how do we
get it to the right people. All of those things. Well,
now you're adding SNAP. Then if it's on top of that, Now,
mind you there are no cuts. I want to be
very clear here, there are no cuts to SNAP. What
is happening is they have reallocated this federal share versus
(07:19):
the state match. So they're saying, well, states, you're gonna
have to pay a little bit more for it. Now.
Let me tell you, the state legislature does this to
counties all the time. Right, they say, well, you're gonna
you're gonna administer this program, and we're going to give
you a certain amount of dollars. This is your match,
and then they change it right as budget needs adjust.
So every so federal government did it. State government has
(07:41):
done it. Like, let's be clear, they're unfunded mandates on
our local governments. But they haven't cut SNAP. They just
changed the state share of SNAP. Right, but if you
don't even go into effect until October of twenty twenty seven.
But unfortunately, this ballot measure is going on this November,
so if they were going to add SNAP, they had
to make it a dire situation where we have to
(08:02):
add it so that they can get additional funding and
be able to push it towards SNAP. I am curious
what the underlying reason is. Is it because the Healthy
Emails for All program maybe wasn't going to pass on
its own, but now that you add SNAP. I mean,
I I don't want a conspiracy theory it, but there's
a reason. There's there's some reason that was not articulated
(08:23):
at the well yesterday as to why they had to
add snap to the Healthy Meals program when we can't
even fund the healthy Meals program. So we just Mandy,
You and I have been in politics long. Yeah, right,
there's an ulterior mind.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yep, there always is.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Rose Paglice is my House Minority leader, and I want
to ask you this question before we run out of time,
and that is simply I see people on Twitter. And
as a matter of fact, I got into it with
a guy this morning.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
He's like, we need to.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Do something to push back and gets why are the
Republicans doing something to push back? And I said, they
are hopelessly outnumbered. And it's not just that, is it, Rose?
The Senate Appropriations Committee was made up of three was it?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Was it five? And so was it seven?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Total?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I can't remember the actual numbers.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
But there were two a Republican and a Democrat who
were not going to vote the way that the Democrat
leadership wanted to vote, so they just replace them with
two different Democrats. So not only are we under you know,
very much underrepresented because of the way Coloradin's vote in
this state, we're now having any modicum of power stripped
away from Republicans just because the Democrats feel like it.
(09:28):
I mean, is this another thing I'm misreading or am
I accurate here?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
You're not misreading it. I will say the arrogance and
the drunken power democrats like that I have seen. This
particular special session is the most egregious I have ever seen,
and it actually really bothers me for the sake of
the institution right that we should be devoted to protecting.
But just just to be clear, so a Democrat can't
(09:54):
replace a Republican on a committee. All Republican can replace Republicans,
So I don't I'm not in the Senate, so I
don't know what all that background was. But Senator Barb
Kirkmeyer can tell you the behind the scenes, real good
story about the Senate. But for us, yes, we have
absolutely seen it. We saw it here at the House
when they were tired of Republicans talking, so then they
(10:16):
limit time on debate to one hour so that they
can get out of there. They called the question rule sixteen.
We don't want to hear from Republicans anymore. We're going
to kill all of your bills. You have no ideas,
We won't let you bring ideas and actually cut budget
right and on top of that, we're not going to
let you speak and represent your constituents. It is a
(10:36):
horrible position for all colorado Ins and I think everybody
should be outraged.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Last question before I let you go, and that is simple.
Apparently the Governor's going to be making all the budget cuts.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Is that what I'm seeing?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Since no budget cuts are coming, and surely this new
revenue scheme is going to be challenged in court, so
it's on shaky ground already, and now the governor is
just going to be empowered to make all the cuts.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Explain that to me.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, I mean the governor has to say right, like
everybody does. But ultimately, I think the Joint Budget Committee
is going to really have to come together to figure
this figure out how we balance this budget. You know,
the thing that people don't realize is that, you know,
we have a constitutional obligation to balance the budget. And
everybody's like, great, well, only twice a year when the
(11:23):
Long Bill is passed and then signed into law it's balanced,
and then during supplementals, so we were already out of
balance and people don't realize that before HR one was
even in effect.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Rosebaglaze is the House Minority leader, When do you think
this is going to wrap up? Do you see any
chance of a wrapping up anytime soon?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
So we were really hoping for today. There's some issues
with the AI bill that they're trying to work out. Again,
why do we call a predetermined special session and not
have all your ducks in a row? I still don't understand.
It costs the taxpayers thirty three thousand dollars a day
to keep us here. We were literally waiting for five
hours yesterday to come back to the floor for a
bill that took less than a minute. So like, let
(12:06):
it's it's really just egregious. I'm and it's really my
word for this session. But so it looks like potentially
Wednesday will be when we actually are able to leave.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
That is, we'll see what else happens. But it doesn't
look like anything good is going to happen for the
taxpayers of Colorado.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
How's minority later?
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Rose, Please thank you so much for your time today.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Thank you
I am pleased to punch this morning to be talking
with House Minority Leader Rose Paglie. She is part of
the very strong and small group of determined Republicans trying
to actually do something to re do spending and it's
not going to happen in this special session. And Rose,
first of all, thanks for joining me. But second of all,
(00:20):
I didn't even look at the media coverage over the weekend,
right because I figured Monday, I'll just dip in, maybe.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
They'll have sorted it out, maybe they will have already
gabbled out the special session.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
And imagine my shock when I read this morning, not
only are they not close to gabbling out, like literally
nothing has been done. So tell me what has happened
in the first four days in your view.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Okay, so kind of as predicted, And thank you Mandy
for having me on so I can talk to your listeners.
As predicted, Republicans don't have any ideas. Only Democrats have ideas.
In this special session, all of our bills died the
first day, but they were kind of a little smarter,
you know, my very first special session, they'd killed all
of our bills by noon, and that was a great
(01:02):
talking point for us, but this time they spaced out committees,
so they were killed all on the first day but
past noon. So a bit creative on their part. But basically,
you know, this call was so narrow, and it basically
was to raise revenue and not necessarily to make cuts. Right,
there was no room for Republicans to bring forward bills
(01:22):
that made any sort of cuts. And if anything, what
we've seen now is that we are we came here
to solve the budget shortfall, and of course Democrats are
blaming it on HR one. Republicans are blaming it on
Democrat mismanagement of the budget throughout the years. But putting
even that aside, we have a budget shortfall. We need
to plug the hole. And so what are they going
(01:45):
to do. They're going to raise the most a billion,
a billion dollars in taxes on our small businesses. Are
hardworking moms and pops who are really struggling to survive
in Colorado anyway, So let's put more burden on them,
because you know, tax cuts means more money in their pockets,
so they should be giving it to state government instead
of federal government. And then we debated at Billy yesterday,
(02:08):
which says, if federal funding is cut from certain entities,
not just Planned Parenthood, but Planned Parenthood is one of
those entities that the state would fill that budget hole
for these organizations. So what we just did was we
came here to solve the budget hole, but we added
to the budget hole that we need to solve. So
(02:30):
only in Colorado does that make sense in this special session.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
So let me ask you about the bills that have
been sent to the governor, and let's start with the
one about Planned Parenthood, because when I saw that this morning,
I'm like, wait a minute. We have a one point
two billion dollars shortfall. So their solution is to make
sure that Planned Parenthood gets more money for abortions. And
I realize that it's not supposed to be for abortions,
but you and I both know money is fungible. So
(02:54):
anything that Planned Parenthood gets for STI testing or you know,
well woman visits, that's one dollar they can be shifted
over to abortion. I find it unsurprising and especially ghoulish
that the Democrats put making sure that we could kill
a babies in Colorado above all of the other spending
priorities that might be out there. I got to tell
you that blew my mind? Am I misreading this somehow?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Well, Mandy, it's about healthcare for Colorados who need it.
That those were the arguments that were made yesterday. And
you know, and I don't dispute the planned parenthood does
more than abortions. But as you said, money is pungeable
and so but I think like the crux of the
arguments we were making were we already have a budget hole.
(03:38):
We are continuing this budget hole, and we're we're growing it.
I just I don't know how how that works in
real life, because none of us can do that, right.
We can't just continue to spend out of control. And
the protections like the tax parabill of rights that you
know that you originally asked me about this morning, right,
how do they raise taxes without are the people? And
(04:01):
what they have said is, well, the vendor fees already
in place, so if we take it away, even though
it increases taxes, it's already been in place, so therefore
it doesn't require vote of the people. The hard part
for me, and I'm sure for your listeners when you
know when Proposition ahhe happened and the Democrats were trying
to take away the tax payabilla rights refunds. The people
(04:21):
said no, and they had that opportunity because it was
on the ballot. Right. In these cases, these bills will
go to the governor's desk, they will become a lot
in everything that leaves the capitals presumed to be constitutional.
So what does that mean. That means challenges in court,
and so then somebody has to challenge it in court,
and then we have to you know, and I'm an attorney,
(04:42):
I'm not knocking the judicial system, but someone will have
to decide and set precedence, which could be also very
scary for future you know, tax payabilla rights bills that
that might come forward. So it's been a really interesting session.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Let me ask thank you specifically about table refunds because
a couple of years ago we had three point two
billion dollar surplus. In the meantime, Democrats have slowly but
surely re alotted all of our table refunds to different
special projects that they wanted to pay off their constituents
or whatever. So they have eroded our table refund. I
think our table refund was supposed to be like seven
(05:20):
or eight dollars this year anyway, and now that's gone
now we have another bill that they sent to the
governor that says we're going to reallocate Healthy Meals for
All money, which is the free school lunch program, and
we're going to reallocate that to SNAP benefits. But the
problem is, it's my understanding that the Healthy Meals for
All program has been in the red the entire time
(05:43):
of its existence. It's never been fully funded. So is
that just like a cheat on paper? I don't even
understand why they do that.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
So it's really interesting to me because I said exactly
that yesterday. I said, listen, we have this Healthy Meals
for All program. We spent all last year, in all
last budget cycle. I'd done Republicans saying, hey, we have
to do better. Right, there's not enough money in this program.
How do we get healthy you know, meals. I'm not
gonna say healthy meals and I'll put a pin in
that for a second, But how do we get the
meals to the people who actually need it? Right? I
(06:13):
always say, I'm a single mom, I work three jobs.
I raised two kids all by myself. But I don't
need it, right. I work three jobs, and there are
a lot of people who work three jobs who really
truly can afford it, so let's make sure those meals
are getting to the appropriate people. I also have an
issue with the program in what we are feeding our children.
So after session ended, I told a story yesterday at
(06:33):
the well corn dogs. Corn dogs were for lunch and
I don't know. I don't normally feed my kids corn dogs.
But it doesn't seem like, if it's a Healthy Meals
for All program, that we're doing right by our children.
So we'll put a pin in that for a later conversation.
But for this special session, healthy Meals for All program
was going on the ballot. You know, Republicans didn't vote
(06:55):
for it, Democrats did. It was going on the ballot
just to fund that program that was Oready at a shore.
There was talks about means testing it, how do we
get it to the right people. All of those things. Well,
now you're adding SNAP. Then if it's on top of that, Now,
mind you there are no cuts. I want to be
very clear here, there are no cuts to SNAP. What
is happening is they have reallocated this federal share versus
(07:19):
the state match. So they're saying, well, states, you're gonna
have to pay a little bit more for it. Now.
Let me tell you, the state legislature does this to
counties all the time. Right, they say, well, you're gonna
you're gonna administer this program, and we're going to give
you a certain amount of dollars. This is your match,
and then they change it right as budget needs adjust.
So every so federal government did it. State government has
(07:41):
done it. Like, let's be clear, they're unfunded mandates on
our local governments. But they haven't cut SNAP. They just
changed the state share of SNAP. Right, but if you
don't even go into effect until October of twenty twenty seven.
But unfortunately, this ballot measure is going on this November,
so if they were going to add SNAP, they had
to make it a dire situation where we have to
(08:02):
add it so that they can get additional funding and
be able to push it towards SNAP. I am curious
what the underlying reason is. Is it because the Healthy
Emails for All program maybe wasn't going to pass on
its own, but now that you add SNAP. I mean,
I I don't want a conspiracy theory it, but there's
a reason. There's there's some reason that was not articulated
(08:23):
at the well yesterday as to why they had to
add snap to the Healthy Meals program when we can't
even fund the healthy Meals program. So we just Mandy,
You and I have been in politics long. Yeah, right,
there's an ulterior mind.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yep, there always is.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Rose Paglice is my House Minority leader, and I want
to ask you this question before we run out of time,
and that is simply I see people on Twitter. And
as a matter of fact, I got into it with
a guy this morning.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
He's like, we need to.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Do something to push back and gets why are the
Republicans doing something to push back? And I said, they
are hopelessly outnumbered. And it's not just that, is it, Rose?
The Senate Appropriations Committee was made up of three was it?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Was it five? And so was it seven?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Total?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I can't remember the actual numbers.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
But there were two a Republican and a Democrat who
were not going to vote the way that the Democrat
leadership wanted to vote, so they just replace them with
two different Democrats. So not only are we under you know,
very much underrepresented because of the way Coloradin's vote in
this state, we're now having any modicum of power stripped
away from Republicans just because the Democrats feel like it.
(09:28):
I mean, is this another thing I'm misreading or am
I accurate here?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
You're not misreading it. I will say the arrogance and
the drunken power democrats like that I have seen. This
particular special session is the most egregious I have ever seen,
and it actually really bothers me for the sake of
the institution right that we should be devoted to protecting.
But just just to be clear, so a Democrat can't
(09:54):
replace a Republican on a committee. All Republican can replace Republicans,
So I don't I'm not in the Senate, so I
don't know what all that background was. But Senator Barb
Kirkmeyer can tell you the behind the scenes, real good
story about the Senate. But for us, yes, we have
absolutely seen it. We saw it here at the House
when they were tired of Republicans talking, so then they
(10:16):
limit time on debate to one hour so that they
can get out of there. They called the question rule sixteen.
We don't want to hear from Republicans anymore. We're going
to kill all of your bills. You have no ideas,
We won't let you bring ideas and actually cut budget
right and on top of that, we're not going to
let you speak and represent your constituents. It is a
(10:36):
horrible position for all colorado Ins and I think everybody
should be outraged.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Last question before I let you go, and that is simple.
Apparently the Governor's going to be making all the budget cuts.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Is that what I'm seeing?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Since no budget cuts are coming, and surely this new
revenue scheme is going to be challenged in court, so
it's on shaky ground already, and now the governor is
just going to be empowered to make all the cuts.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Explain that to me.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, I mean the governor has to say right, like
everybody does. But ultimately, I think the Joint Budget Committee
is going to really have to come together to figure
this figure out how we balance this budget. You know,
the thing that people don't realize is that, you know,
we have a constitutional obligation to balance the budget. And
everybody's like, great, well, only twice a year when the
(11:23):
Long Bill is passed and then signed into law it's balanced,
and then during supplementals, so we were already out of
balance and people don't realize that before HR one was
even in effect.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Rosebaglaze is the House Minority leader, When do you think
this is going to wrap up? Do you see any
chance of a wrapping up anytime soon?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
So we were really hoping for today. There's some issues
with the AI bill that they're trying to work out. Again,
why do we call a predetermined special session and not
have all your ducks in a row? I still don't understand.
It costs the taxpayers thirty three thousand dollars a day
to keep us here. We were literally waiting for five
hours yesterday to come back to the floor for a
bill that took less than a minute. So like, let
(12:06):
it's it's really just egregious. I'm and it's really my
word for this session. But so it looks like potentially
Wednesday will be when we actually are able to leave.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
That is, we'll see what else happens. But it doesn't
look like anything good is going to happen for the
taxpayers of Colorado.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
How's minority later?
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Rose, Please thank you so much for your time today.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Thank you
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Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com