Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Colorado Constitution. It was referred to the ballot. Was
that referred to the ballot by the I think it
was referred Was it signatures? How did this get We'll
find out with our next guests, because joining me now
the vice president of the American Association of Pro Life
Obstetrician Gynecologists in Colorado and president of Democrats for Life
(00:20):
of Colorado, Tom Perril, is with us doctor Tom Perril
and Wendy Smooth. Wendy Smooth, See what did I have,
Wendy Smith? I literally said, Wendy, your name's easy. I
won't mess that up. Wendy Smith, who was a retired
acute care nurse practitioner, there on to talk about why
Amendment seventy nine is a bad idea, and I want
(00:40):
to start with you, Tom. What would this amendment do
compared to what we have in law right now?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
The amendment would make unrestricted abortion to constitutional right, and
it would also facilitate taxpayer funding, which are two new things.
It has several other unattended consequences, which includes eliminating prinal notification,
which is one of the only laws on the books
(01:13):
in Colorado pertaining to abortion, and so parents would not
be notified in advance of their team daughter's abortion.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
And.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It would preclude the legislators of Colorado's coming back and
modifying the restrictions on abortion to address the late abortion
issue which is occurring at ever increasing numbers here in
Colorado on healthy women with healthy babies.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
When you say late term abortion, what do you mean
and what does that mean? I want to be clear
because I think most people that is such a bland
euphemism for what actually happens there. So what is considered
a late term abortion?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
We use the term late abortions because late term is
sort of controversial, but late abortions typically are after the
first semester. In particularly, I'm talking about post viability abortions
after twenty one weeks, which is the absolute limit of
fetal viability in the United States. Today, there are babies
actually born at some centers like the University of Iowa
at twenty one weeks. Currently, twenty two weeks is the
(02:23):
standard for offering resussitive measures for a pre met but
as early as twenty one weeks babies can survive. So
when I'm talking about late abortions, I'm talking about after
the point of fetal viability and the methodology used for
those abortions is different than first trimester abortions, and it
represents substantially more risk to the mother. You may know
(02:49):
that D and E abortions are the standard in the
second trimester up until about twenty four weeks and DN
E abortions. You know, this is difficult to discuss, but
it involves taking the fetus apart is membering it to
extract it from the uterus. In the process, the fetus
(03:10):
is killed, and usually that's done without the benefit of
any anesthesia or by a fetus side prior to the dismemberment,
which means that the fetus will feel that pain fairly
acutely and later later in pregnancy. Go ahead, I was
(03:30):
gonna say in the third timemester, more commonly, what happens
is the the fetus is injected with poison, in this
case the Jockson, which is a chemical drug that's used
for heart failure patients and people with party rhythmias, but
in a massive overdose it causes nausea, vomiting, wretching, abdominal pain, delirium,
and we know that that happens in infants as well,
(03:53):
So there's every reason to believe when when we inject
the jockson of the fetus, it takes at least minutes
up to twenty four hours to kill the fetus, and
so it's a very tortuous death and people are unaware
of that as well.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
And then do they deliver the dead baby? What is
the process there?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Not?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I mean, I'm not trying to be too graphic, but
I got to tell you, guys, I think one of
the reasons that people are willing to accept late abortion
is because they've sanitized what it actually is. Right, we
don't talk about what it actually is that we're talking about.
We've allowed it to become ending a pregnancy instead of
ending life, which is what it's doing. So I'm gonna
(04:33):
if you're squeamish, you may want to turn away from
the station for a moment, But I'd like to know
do they deliver the baby hole at that point? How
do they get a twenty six twenty eight week baby
out of the mother after they after they kill it.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
It's a several day procedure and they use serial dilations
of the cervix to just accommodate the size of the baby.
And then typically on the third or fourth day, when
it's in the you know, late later in the third trimester,
they give a drive to make the uterus contract, and
then they use instruments as well to extract the dead fetus.
(05:13):
They kill the fetus on the first day, they extract
it on the third or fourth day, and uh, when
they extract it, sometimes the fetus comes out intact, and
sometimes it's also this member, depending on the difficulty they
have in extracting the fetus.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So it seems to me and doctor Terrill and then
I'll get to you in just a second, Wendy, I promise.
I spoke to my own obg yn about what health
situations would be existing where the termination of a pregnancy
in late later months is necessary to save the life
(05:53):
of the mother. When I was like, can't you just
either deliver the baby alive? And she didn't have a
good answer for me, and we had a long conversation,
but she said, it's just a really tough thing to
parse this out, So why not just deliver the baby
at that point and allow someone else to take responsibility
for it.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
You know, that's just the point after feal viability, there's
absolutely no indication for an abortion as opposed to a delivery,
because an abortion, as the just mentioned, takes several days.
If you have a medical emergency, nobody has the time
to wait several days to perform a late abortion. Delivery
can be performed in a matter of minutes. And so
(06:37):
if there really is a medical urgency or emergency, it's
actually malpracticed to perform an abortion in that setting. So
after viability, it's never necessary to do an abortion to
save the life of the mother. In fact, I even
called doctor Warren Herne and Boulder and asked him that
same question. I said, is there any situation that you
could think of where an abortion was necessary to save
the life of mother after viability instead of a delivery?
(07:00):
He said, I don't know. Called the University of Colorado,
so it tells you here's the premiere abortion providertrue abortion proviator,
and you can't think of a situation when that would
be relevant. So the propaganda out there that this is
necessary to save the health or life of mother is
just not true.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
So you and I were talking off the air about
the fact that a lot of people here in the
state don't know that in Colorado you can get a
completely optional You decide you don't want to have a baby,
you can do that up until the day of birth.
That is the law here in Colorado.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Correct. It is correct.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I find that ghoulish, and every time I bring it up,
I have a texture of some sword who says that's
not accurate. That never happens, and it does. It absolutely
does happen. You said you had data.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
On that, Well, we know that in Colorado, based on
the Colorada Palm Department of Public Health and Environment, there
are between fortua and sixty eight and fortune and eighty
six abortions after twenty weeks in Colorado over the last
two years, and that represents between three point two and
(08:12):
three point four percent of all abortions. Sounds like not
a lot, but you know that's basically five hundred abortions
after viability. And the striking thing is Doctorhearn from Boulder
has published his own late abortion practice Experience, and he
says that seventy percent of the babies that he awards
laid in pregnancy are are healthy. In other words, these
(08:34):
are healthy babies in healthy women that are being aborted
for elective reasons. I mean not that they're trivial reasons.
Sometimes you know, women don't even recognize that they're pregnant
until the fifth or sixth month. Sometimes you know, a
partner leaves them, or they lose their job. But all
these things, you know, demand our compassion and our care.
But I think we need to offer them more than
(08:55):
a late abortion. We should be working diligently to provide
them pregnancyvisistant support, you know, treat domestic violence and the
other issues that arise that make a woman feel that
that's the best option for her.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Wendy, how did you get involved in this movement? You're
a retired nurse practitioner did how did you jump in here?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
So several reasons. My specialty was hematology oncology, so understanding
the science of the growth and development, and from the
very first stem cell, I've always really been pro life.
In addition, I have been involved in prison volunteering in
(09:40):
prisons for over eighteen years and currently volunteer with three
different anti trafficking organizations, and my focuses in minor sex trafficking,
and so I've dealt with the issue from several different
perspectives and I just am compelled to fend life and
(10:02):
the health and safety of women and girls.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Well, someone reached out to me after I said, I
hate to say it, but I feel like, based on
recent voting on anything, we can't even get a later
term abortion ban passed in Colorado that failed at the
ballot box. What confidence do you have that this amendment
is going to fail? And if so, where's that coming from?
(10:27):
Because I'd love to have confidence, but Colorado voters have
shown me that they don't want any kind of limits
on abortion at all.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
So I have confidence because I think that one of
the reasons that people have, like with Proposition one point fifteen,
people that we talked to, didn't know what they were
voting for. They didn't realize that by refusing to limit
it to twenty abortion to twenty two weeks that allowed
for abortion. It opened the door for vote abortion all
(11:00):
the way up to birth. I don't think most women
know that it is not women's healthcare. In fact, there's
no any efforts to promote health and safety guidelines. For example,
the Women's Health Protection Act HB sixteen twelve thirty one.
(11:21):
Any of that was turned down, that never got out
of committee because it was perceived as a barrier. So
there's no guidelines, there's no oversight, no safety regulations, no inspections.
When do you do that?
Speaker 1 (11:38):
That's the thing that That's the thing that I thought was.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
They realized that that's the case in that So.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
What you're sorry, Yeah, no, I was going to say,
so what you're saying, Just to be clear here, because
we talked about this a little bit before, I didn't
realize that they're not abortion clinics are not under the
same medical inspection standards as a standard medical facility that
has to adhere to certain levels of Clintley's. Now I'm
not saying saying that they're all pits of despair, but
they don't even get inspected, so you have to go
(12:04):
on faith that they're following proper medical practices. Is that
what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
That's absolutely what I'm saying. The public is dark, and
how do we collect data because they're not reporting all
the data and if this amendment goes through, it'll be silent.
I mean, we'll have no way of collecting data. Currently,
a lot of it's voluntary in Colorado, but they don't
enforce it.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
So the irony is that I was going to say,
the irony is that you know, a second and third
trimester abortion clinic which has takes care of very high
risk situations. We know that second trimester abortions have a
ten percent complication rate and one point seven percent life
threatening complication rate, and yet which is much higher than
(12:53):
most ambulatory surgical centers which are highly regulated, and birth
centers for that matter, which will highly regulated. But second
third timester worship clinics have no regulation despite the high risk.
It's just amount of time before some tragedy occurs, in
multiple tragedies, and we may or may not hear about
it because the nature of reporting on this kind of
(13:15):
thing is really suboptimal. We know from the experience in
Philadelphia with Gosnell that even prominent hospitals like University of
Color of Pennsylvania didn't report some of the women who
are damaged and even one woman that died as a
result of complications of abortion.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
The Kermit Gosnell story should have been a wake up
call for so many people, but there's too many people
that want to continue to support the sanitized version of
abortion that they've been fed. Just ending a pregnancy, no
big deals, just a choice, and that I think is
what has to be changed before we can see real
change at the ballot box. It's one of the reasons
(13:56):
I wanted to talk to you today on the air.
It's why I want to have a graphic commerce sation
about what this procedure actually is, because I think that
when you start to realize the barbarism of it, it
gets really hard to say no, you should have that
choice at any moment during your pregnancy. And yet that's
what we have in Colorado. And I guarantee if I
look at the text line right now, there'll be a
(14:17):
person who says, but how many abortions are happening at
thirty eight weeks? Great, if we can all agree it's
not happening, let's make it so it can't happen. If
we all agree it's so distasteful that it never happens,
let's take it off the table permanently. And they will
not concede that point. It's very, very frustrating.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, I know, we know that it occurs well into
the third trimester, well beyond thirty two weeks, and in
doctor Hearn's published information he has even has one listen
at thirty nine weeks. I'm not sure if that was
a live baby or stillbirth, because sometimes he conflates the two,
but in any case, there's no quest. Then it happens
(15:00):
well into the third trimester, and again on healthy babies
and healthy women.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Doctor Tom Peril and Wendy Smith, thank you so much
for your time today. We'll continue having this conversation.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
You know.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
I hope you guys are right, but I don't think
you are. And I'm hoping that conversations like this at
least give someone pause before they support it, you know,
and and maybe some baby steps we'll be having a
different conversation in the future.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Thank you very much having us.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Thank you guys, I appreciate it very much. We're all
gonna have a chance to vote on this
The Colorado Constitution. It was referred to the ballot. Was
that referred to the ballot by the I think it
was referred Was it signatures? How did this get We'll
find out with our next guests, because joining me now
the vice president of the American Association of Pro Life
Obstetrician Gynecologists in Colorado and president of Democrats for Life
(00:20):
of Colorado, Tom Perril, is with us doctor Tom Perril
and Wendy Smooth. Wendy Smooth, See what did I have,
Wendy Smith? I literally said, Wendy, your name's easy. I
won't mess that up. Wendy Smith, who was a retired
acute care nurse practitioner, there on to talk about why
Amendment seventy nine is a bad idea, and I want
(00:40):
to start with you, Tom. What would this amendment do
compared to what we have in law right now?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
The amendment would make unrestricted abortion to constitutional right, and
it would also facilitate taxpayer funding, which are two new things.
It has several other unattended consequences, which includes eliminating prinal notification,
which is one of the only laws on the books
(01:13):
in Colorado pertaining to abortion, and so parents would not
be notified in advance of their team daughter's abortion.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
And.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It would preclude the legislators of Colorado's coming back and
modifying the restrictions on abortion to address the late abortion
issue which is occurring at ever increasing numbers here in
Colorado on healthy women with healthy babies.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
When you say late term abortion, what do you mean
and what does that mean? I want to be clear
because I think most people that is such a bland
euphemism for what actually happens there. So what is considered
a late term abortion?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
We use the term late abortions because late term is
sort of controversial, but late abortions typically are after the
first semester. In particularly, I'm talking about post viability abortions
after twenty one weeks, which is the absolute limit of
fetal viability in the United States. Today, there are babies
actually born at some centers like the University of Iowa
at twenty one weeks. Currently, twenty two weeks is the
(02:23):
standard for offering resussitive measures for a pre met but
as early as twenty one weeks babies can survive. So
when I'm talking about late abortions, I'm talking about after
the point of fetal viability and the methodology used for
those abortions is different than first trimester abortions, and it
represents substantially more risk to the mother. You may know
(02:49):
that D and E abortions are the standard in the
second trimester up until about twenty four weeks and DN
E abortions. You know, this is difficult to discuss, but
it involves taking the fetus apart is membering it to
extract it from the uterus. In the process, the fetus
(03:10):
is killed, and usually that's done without the benefit of
any anesthesia or by a fetus side prior to the dismemberment,
which means that the fetus will feel that pain fairly
acutely and later later in pregnancy. Go ahead, I was
(03:30):
gonna say in the third timemester, more commonly, what happens
is the the fetus is injected with poison, in this
case the Jockson, which is a chemical drug that's used
for heart failure patients and people with party rhythmias, but
in a massive overdose it causes nausea, vomiting, wretching, abdominal pain, delirium,
and we know that that happens in infants as well,
(03:53):
So there's every reason to believe when when we inject
the jockson of the fetus, it takes at least minutes
up to twenty four hours to kill the fetus, and
so it's a very tortuous death and people are unaware
of that as well.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
And then do they deliver the dead baby? What is
the process there?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Not?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I mean, I'm not trying to be too graphic, but
I got to tell you, guys, I think one of
the reasons that people are willing to accept late abortion
is because they've sanitized what it actually is. Right, we
don't talk about what it actually is that we're talking about.
We've allowed it to become ending a pregnancy instead of
ending life, which is what it's doing. So I'm gonna
(04:33):
if you're squeamish, you may want to turn away from
the station for a moment, But I'd like to know
do they deliver the baby hole at that point? How
do they get a twenty six twenty eight week baby
out of the mother after they after they kill it.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
It's a several day procedure and they use serial dilations
of the cervix to just accommodate the size of the baby.
And then typically on the third or fourth day, when
it's in the you know, late later in the third trimester,
they give a drive to make the uterus contract, and
then they use instruments as well to extract the dead fetus.
(05:13):
They kill the fetus on the first day, they extract
it on the third or fourth day, and uh, when
they extract it, sometimes the fetus comes out intact, and
sometimes it's also this member, depending on the difficulty they
have in extracting the fetus.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So it seems to me and doctor Terrill and then
I'll get to you in just a second, Wendy, I promise.
I spoke to my own obg yn about what health
situations would be existing where the termination of a pregnancy
in late later months is necessary to save the life
(05:53):
of the mother. When I was like, can't you just
either deliver the baby alive? And she didn't have a
good answer for me, and we had a long conversation,
but she said, it's just a really tough thing to
parse this out, So why not just deliver the baby
at that point and allow someone else to take responsibility
for it.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
You know, that's just the point after feal viability, there's
absolutely no indication for an abortion as opposed to a delivery,
because an abortion, as the just mentioned, takes several days.
If you have a medical emergency, nobody has the time
to wait several days to perform a late abortion. Delivery
can be performed in a matter of minutes. And so
(06:37):
if there really is a medical urgency or emergency, it's
actually malpracticed to perform an abortion in that setting. So
after viability, it's never necessary to do an abortion to
save the life of the mother. In fact, I even
called doctor Warren Herne and Boulder and asked him that
same question. I said, is there any situation that you
could think of where an abortion was necessary to save
the life of mother after viability instead of a delivery?
(07:00):
He said, I don't know. Called the University of Colorado,
so it tells you here's the premiere abortion providertrue abortion proviator,
and you can't think of a situation when that would
be relevant. So the propaganda out there that this is
necessary to save the health or life of mother is
just not true.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
So you and I were talking off the air about
the fact that a lot of people here in the
state don't know that in Colorado you can get a
completely optional You decide you don't want to have a baby,
you can do that up until the day of birth.
That is the law here in Colorado.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Correct. It is correct.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I find that ghoulish, and every time I bring it up,
I have a texture of some sword who says that's
not accurate. That never happens, and it does. It absolutely
does happen. You said you had data.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
On that, Well, we know that in Colorado, based on
the Colorada Palm Department of Public Health and Environment, there
are between fortua and sixty eight and fortune and eighty
six abortions after twenty weeks in Colorado over the last
two years, and that represents between three point two and
(08:12):
three point four percent of all abortions. Sounds like not
a lot, but you know that's basically five hundred abortions
after viability. And the striking thing is Doctorhearn from Boulder
has published his own late abortion practice Experience, and he
says that seventy percent of the babies that he awards
laid in pregnancy are are healthy. In other words, these
(08:34):
are healthy babies in healthy women that are being aborted
for elective reasons. I mean not that they're trivial reasons.
Sometimes you know, women don't even recognize that they're pregnant
until the fifth or sixth month. Sometimes you know, a
partner leaves them, or they lose their job. But all
these things, you know, demand our compassion and our care.
But I think we need to offer them more than
(08:55):
a late abortion. We should be working diligently to provide
them pregnancyvisistant support, you know, treat domestic violence and the
other issues that arise that make a woman feel that
that's the best option for her.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Wendy, how did you get involved in this movement? You're
a retired nurse practitioner did how did you jump in here?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
So several reasons. My specialty was hematology oncology, so understanding
the science of the growth and development, and from the
very first stem cell, I've always really been pro life.
In addition, I have been involved in prison volunteering in
(09:40):
prisons for over eighteen years and currently volunteer with three
different anti trafficking organizations, and my focuses in minor sex trafficking,
and so I've dealt with the issue from several different
perspectives and I just am compelled to fend life and
(10:02):
the health and safety of women and girls.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Well, someone reached out to me after I said, I
hate to say it, but I feel like, based on
recent voting on anything, we can't even get a later
term abortion ban passed in Colorado that failed at the
ballot box. What confidence do you have that this amendment
is going to fail? And if so, where's that coming from?
(10:27):
Because I'd love to have confidence, but Colorado voters have
shown me that they don't want any kind of limits
on abortion at all.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
So I have confidence because I think that one of
the reasons that people have, like with Proposition one point fifteen,
people that we talked to, didn't know what they were
voting for. They didn't realize that by refusing to limit
it to twenty abortion to twenty two weeks that allowed
for abortion. It opened the door for vote abortion all
(11:00):
the way up to birth. I don't think most women
know that it is not women's healthcare. In fact, there's
no any efforts to promote health and safety guidelines. For example,
the Women's Health Protection Act HB sixteen twelve thirty one.
(11:21):
Any of that was turned down, that never got out
of committee because it was perceived as a barrier. So
there's no guidelines, there's no oversight, no safety regulations, no inspections.
When do you do that?
Speaker 1 (11:38):
That's the thing that That's the thing that I thought was.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
They realized that that's the case in that So.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
What you're sorry, Yeah, no, I was going to say,
so what you're saying, Just to be clear here, because
we talked about this a little bit before, I didn't
realize that they're not abortion clinics are not under the
same medical inspection standards as a standard medical facility that
has to adhere to certain levels of Clintley's. Now I'm
not saying saying that they're all pits of despair, but
they don't even get inspected, so you have to go
(12:04):
on faith that they're following proper medical practices. Is that
what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
That's absolutely what I'm saying. The public is dark, and
how do we collect data because they're not reporting all
the data and if this amendment goes through, it'll be silent.
I mean, we'll have no way of collecting data. Currently,
a lot of it's voluntary in Colorado, but they don't
enforce it.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
So the irony is that I was going to say,
the irony is that you know, a second and third
trimester abortion clinic which has takes care of very high
risk situations. We know that second trimester abortions have a
ten percent complication rate and one point seven percent life
threatening complication rate, and yet which is much higher than
(12:53):
most ambulatory surgical centers which are highly regulated, and birth
centers for that matter, which will highly regulated. But second
third timester worship clinics have no regulation despite the high risk.
It's just amount of time before some tragedy occurs, in
multiple tragedies, and we may or may not hear about
it because the nature of reporting on this kind of
(13:15):
thing is really suboptimal. We know from the experience in
Philadelphia with Gosnell that even prominent hospitals like University of
Color of Pennsylvania didn't report some of the women who
are damaged and even one woman that died as a
result of complications of abortion.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
The Kermit Gosnell story should have been a wake up
call for so many people, but there's too many people
that want to continue to support the sanitized version of
abortion that they've been fed. Just ending a pregnancy, no
big deals, just a choice, and that I think is
what has to be changed before we can see real
change at the ballot box. It's one of the reasons
(13:56):
I wanted to talk to you today on the air.
It's why I want to have a graphic commerce sation
about what this procedure actually is, because I think that
when you start to realize the barbarism of it, it
gets really hard to say no, you should have that
choice at any moment during your pregnancy. And yet that's
what we have in Colorado. And I guarantee if I
look at the text line right now, there'll be a
(14:17):
person who says, but how many abortions are happening at
thirty eight weeks? Great, if we can all agree it's
not happening, let's make it so it can't happen. If
we all agree it's so distasteful that it never happens,
let's take it off the table permanently. And they will
not concede that point. It's very, very frustrating.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, I know, we know that it occurs well into
the third trimester, well beyond thirty two weeks, and in
doctor Hearn's published information he has even has one listen
at thirty nine weeks. I'm not sure if that was
a live baby or stillbirth, because sometimes he conflates the two,
but in any case, there's no quest. Then it happens
(15:00):
well into the third trimester, and again on healthy babies
and healthy women.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Doctor Tom Peril and Wendy Smith, thank you so much
for your time today. We'll continue having this conversation.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
You know.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
I hope you guys are right, but I don't think
you are. And I'm hoping that conversations like this at
least give someone pause before they support it, you know,
and and maybe some baby steps we'll be having a
different conversation in the future.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Thank you very much having us.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Thank you guys, I appreciate it very much. We're all
gonna have a chance to vote on this
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Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.