September 26, 2025 • 32 mins
LET'S DO SOMETHING DIFFERENTISH TODAY We're going to talk about fun stuff and nerdy books and also do a deeper dive on black culture with two African American guests.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joining me in the studio. That voice you hear over
too much. From right to left on your radio dial.
We've got Nick Ferguson over on the right, and then
to my left, we have a new contender to the ring.
His name is Steven Williams. He's a listener to the show,
and a couple of weeks ago, I was talking about
my perception that violence is a part of black culture
in a way that it is not in other cultures
(00:22):
that I see, whether we're talking about the rate of
violent crime, or we're talking about focus on education, or
we're talking about the rate of single parenthood, which I'm hoping.
I did so much research this morning on data and statistics.
It was insane. But there's good news. That's why I'm
saying this. There's really good news though, because culturally people
are starting to say, you know what, it sucks being
(00:43):
a single parent.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I'm sure does it sucks.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I mean, parenting is a two person job. It is
some days you got to have somebody to tag out with,
you know what I mean, Just be like, you handle this.
I've had enough.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
You have kids, Nick, you know, yes, I do know,
and I know that it takes too individuals, But I
also have lived in a situation where it was just
my mom, And this is why my viewpoint is different
from some of my African American friends who come from
suburban households. Like for me, going back just a little,
I mean, when you live in hud and you're relying
(01:18):
on government assistance. The first thing I learned as a kid,
and I didn't know I was onto this when I
was ten years old, but it didn't come to fruition
two several years later. I looked around my neighborhood and
I was like, there's a lot of moms and a
lot of kids. I don't see any damn dads, So
what's going on? Like, well, what's going on with this process?
And the way that it worked was like if you
(01:39):
were a woman and you had kids, no matter how
many kids that you had, the.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Government was willing to give you assistance just.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
With one caveat no man in the household. So when
you do that, you're breaking up the family. And I
can tell you a lot of my friends didn't have fathers,
and I saw them going to entirely different directions. So
to me, this kind of breeds the victimhood right of
saying okay, well, I can't overcome my shortcomings of what
(02:07):
my life has shown me thus far, because as they
would say, but the white man is holding me down,
and it's like, no, you have the ability to overcome
that if you.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Think with that.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, and Steven, let me give you a little bit
of your background, because it takes a little bit of
a known quantity. But where'd you do you have? Are
you married? You have kids?
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Just I am married and I do not have any kids. Okay,
but my grandparents they raised five children, so there was
a mother and a father in that hosshold. But I
grew up as a single in a single household. And
I grew up in East Village. It was a it
was used to it was built for the Olympics that
were supposed to come in the lace evenues but never
(02:46):
were never, never happened, so they turned out to low
income housing. So I grew up in that same situation.
Wasn't it's right down the street from five points but
not in five Points and other projects but low income housing.
So and it was the same situation. There were just
very little for the fathers around. You just didn't see
any My father was around here and there, but it
(03:08):
just you saw what happened in that community when forthers
fathers weren't around.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
There was a lot of it creates instability, a lot
of gangs.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
People in mald and gangs, a lot of instability. It
just wasn't good. It wasn't a good.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Let me ask both of you. Was your dad ever
in your life?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Oh? Definitely?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I mean, but but we were your parents together when
you were younger and then they split up at some point.
How old were you when they stood? I was about okay?
How about you?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Nick?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Was your dad ever around? All the time?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
He was around, but they were not together.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I was younger, okay, because because my parents split up
when I was in fourth grade, So I'm older than
you guys by a little bit. And that was like
the first wave of no fault divorce. So my parents
split up when I actually fourth grade, so ten, I
was ten, and even though I lived in a small town.
And this is like, I'm kind of out in my
dad right now, and he's dead and I feel bad
about this, but we're going to have a conversation. Let's
have a conversation. My parents divorced and my father essentially
(04:05):
just was not available. Now, my father was an attorney, right.
He I found all this out much much later. So
we lived a fake suburban upper upper middle class lifestyle
is fake suburban. Wait wait, just wait, just wait. So
we lived in a really nice house, but if anything broke,
my mom had to fix it. I came home and
my mom was on the roof one day repairing roofing
(04:26):
tiles because we had no extra money. And so from
a very young age, when it was like, Okay, I
live in this neighborhood where all the other kids have stuff, Well,
if I wanted stuff I had, I had to work
for it. I mean, it was just the way it worked.
It was just and my dad later on in life
really kind of got his emotional act together and we
(04:47):
had a much different relationship as an adult on but
as a father when I was a kid, it was horrible.
So I have some sympathy to this situation.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I wasn't growing up in the projects, and I recognized
that I didn't have chaos around me. But I do
know how it feels to go like, dude, why why
am I not good enough in that way?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
You see, Mandy glad You said that because most African
American people that I know who have lived in the
inner city, the hood, the ghetto. When we look at
someone of your complexion, we think that, no, you didn't
grow up the same way that we grew up.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
We had more things that we had.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
To challenges to work with you.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
No, no, no, no.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
You had a house, right, we had a we had
project whatever.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
They were walking down to Finstos next door.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
You can hear that.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Television is what you're telling me about. And I don't
want to say that I in any way can sympathize
with that, because I can't. I can't. I don't know
what that's like. But as far as it goes like
living with just a single mom, I do understand what
it's like to have a mom who is really trying
to get it together financially.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Though, from that perspective, because you in a one parent household, right,
you got two individuals here who were in one parent.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Household, so we lived that same same life. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Well, luckily I had had two strong grandparents that like, yeah,
supplemented that dad part.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And my grandfather was great. He was like my second
he was my dad.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
See, I mean, but that's what I see now, and
it's and this is some of the statistical data that
I was digging into earlier. What we get down to
is the point Nick made about, you know, welfare programs
disincentivizing the family structure. I think it was not only
it's a feature, not a bug. And Nick, you and
I were talking off the air about you found out
(06:39):
about LBJ being a complete race. This guy was a
complete racist, I mean, full on, like horrible racist, and
simon civil Rights Act in his mind to keep black
people in line. And when you make someone more dependent
on the government, you can easily threaten their livelihood and
(07:00):
and keep their vote. So there's a lot of like
sort of undercurrents here that we can talk about. But
I want to kind of jump ahead. I want to
jump ahead to the nineteen eighties and when. And I
don't remember the seventies, so maybe it was this way
in the seventies. I'm just not old enough. But in
the eighties we started to see the rise of what
was then called gangster rap, and boy, it created a kerfuffle.
(07:20):
I mean, Tipper Gore is still mad about it to
this day, I'm sure. I mean she was salty about it.
And for a lot of people like me, like the
white girl from the suburbs. It gave me a window
into a world that I was completely unaware of until
that moment. I loved it. I mean I wasn't out
there dancing, but I went to see shows in bars
(07:40):
where I was literally one of like five white people
because I loved the music. I thought it was so
interesting in your mind. Did that rise up as a
reflection or a glorification of what was being seen by
these rappers?
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I would say it was kind of a reflection. You
wanted people outside your neighborhood to know what you were
going through on a daily basis. Right when you think
about some of the early hip hop that was coming
out of New York and just think about what New
York City.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Crush, Yeah, crush, groovy, Yes, you had Mellow Vale, Yes,
grand Master Flash, that stuff coming up. You know, it
was groovy and it was gritty in New York. But
it wasn't that much violence in that music that late seventies,
early eighties.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
It was part of music. Yes, that was part of music.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
And then that kind of melded into like more morphed
Yeah that kid and play yeah that kid and played
dance at you know, house party movies. It was all fun, fun,
and then it's that somehow it took a hard turn
just and just got hard.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Well, the reason it did that because what we're describing
right now is East Coast rap right, and then West
Coast rap Rappers were like, well, we want to make
sure that people understand the environment that we're dealing with.
So they talked about the drive bonds, they talked about
the run in with lapd right, and that just changed
rap scene.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Well, it was also commensurate at that time with the
rise of crack cocaine. So I'm telling you, I read
a lot of stuff this morning. Okay, So it all
kind of went together in that violence on the streets
was being reflected in the music. But the reason I
asked this is how much does culture drive culture? How
much does entertainment drive culture? And how much does culture
(09:21):
drive entertainment? Do you understand what I'm asking.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
It was I got into.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
A real deep YouTube video about this guy was talking
about there was a difference between certain certain am blacks
and a different class of blacks where they were just
trying to warph into what they saw on television and
(09:44):
and not being their own people. And and I just
think that everything just got out of control and things
just started. Everybody just started really just going I think
it was just a lot of people just going overboard
(10:05):
Ella with a you know, ice Cube coming out with
his whole his own genre of rap music which just
told about everything was going on the streets.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
You know, do you think they viewed that as a
way out of their circumstances that seemed easy somehow.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Or easier Okay, so not easier.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Once again, you are wanting to let people know what
your life is like, right right, and sometimes the harsh
reality and the visual was too hard for most people
to actually embrace. Like, wow, these people in the inner
city of you know, Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, Miami
are living this particular way and this was the only
(10:44):
way for the artists to really portray to the public
what their lives were like. And when you think about resources,
there were not a lot of resources in the inner
city area. So what was happening is that you start
to emulate what it is that you see, because now
you're saying, I see someone else across town who is
going through the same thing that I'm going through, So
you embodied that. I remember being in the seventh grade
(11:06):
and summer school and my teacher let us watch Colors
for the first time. Wow, old, I think, I mean
might have been, you know, fourteen or something like that,
and I saw Colors and I was like.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Wait a minute.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
So there's a group of people in Los Angeles who
deal with this. Now, in Miami there were gangs, but
it was more like it was drug games.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
It was entirely different than it was in California.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
And I couldn't believe it as a person growing up
in the city, like, there's another section of African American
people who are dealing with that on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
So you just felt like there was a group there
that you finally found a place in a weird way.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, because even you're not alone.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yes, that's what we're all looking forward to say. You
know what, I'm not alone because you feel as though
you were long but when you see other individuals going
through that struggle.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Even as bad as it is, it goes, well, I'm
not by myself. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
And then you sat up proliferate throughout the United States
where with all the wannabes everything, and you know, because
Denver doesn't really have metro area, doesn't really have a
project is I mean, it's they have projects, but it's not.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Like the projection. Yeah, everything like that.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
So a lot of people just started emulating that over
here and start I emulated all and went all through
the Midwest's emulation, and it started feeding off each other.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
But at what point because ultimately, and let's talk about
black crime for a moment, because black men specifically are
over represented in the categories of violent crime as a
percentage of the population, they make up about eight percent
of the population, and they commit overwhelmingly like a lot
of murders. They're like forty three percent of murders are
and they're they're mostly victimizing other black victims, right, So
(12:48):
these are black people victimizing black people. What has to
change here because we've now seen over the years, we've
seen we need more money for education. But then, you know,
my sister at a Title one school in Florida, this
was a very very very poor student body, meaning poverty wise.
Some of these kids were just brilliant, like super smart kids,
(13:10):
just really grinding poverty and the differences between the way
the parents handled children. And maybe this is the function
of being a single mom. But she called a kid
a kid's mom to say, your kid is super bright,
Like this boy is smart, but he's got to sit
still and stop talking in class. Like that's how she
(13:32):
started super smart. She came up to the school and
whooped him at school, put a beat down on that
kid at school, and was like, I can never call
a parent again if that's what's going to happen, because
what I was hoping was will lead with the your
kid is incredibly smart, and he was. He ended up
going to college on a math scholarship. But all the
(13:55):
mom heard was your kid's acting the full come up
here and give him a whooping, And she was like,
I've never seen anything like that. That's kind of the
stuff that I'm talking about in the sense that like
if kids are getting beaten, when they're getting getting even
for mom, if they deserve it, that still sets the
tone that physical violence is the way to solve a problem.
And for the most part, like white people are trying
(14:15):
to move away. Now, I'm not going to tell you
that they're not white people who beat their kids. Obviously
there are. They're horrible people that do horrible things, but
as a general rule, culturally that has shifted, and yet
that did not shift for that mama.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Well, in my in my school, yes that happened, and
we knew because that kid who was acting up he
that he's now straight, and we go, oh, that's your mom.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Let's tell you what.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
White people do. White people show up the next day
at school and sit in the class with the kid.
They're saying, look, you're gonna work.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Well see when I was a kid, that was still
a thing. But since then it's it's just kind of
changed a little bit. But it's like, what is it
about that particular thing that just bothers me?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Because because in the Bible it says up.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
The child and I heard that a lot.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
As a kid, and I'm like, well, uh, I don't
think that God intended it to be read and interpreted
the way that you guys interpreted. So that means that
anytime you act up, you got to think about it.
You're a single black mom in the inner city, and
if you have a job and the school is calling you,
you now have to leave your job to go to
(15:28):
that school. Oh yes, somebody gets a business, Yes, depending.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Have to get there. How hard it was for her
to get there?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yes, I get all that, But it's like, if we
as you know, I always say you have to be
creative about how how you punish your kids. You got
to find their weak spot and you just got to
put the screws to it, you know whatever.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
That is.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Like our oldest kid hated to be outside. He's a
computer guy. He's still a computer guy outside. So the
one time he came home after he'd been at a
party and had been drinking, what did it? What did
we do? The next morning? At seven am in Florida,
in oh he pulled every weed in our weed youdn't.
I could hear him puke and outside the whole time,
(16:08):
and I was like, stay out there, stay out there
all day in the garden. Well it didn't matter. It
was fine. But you know, it's stuff like that that
I look at and go culturally that that is a
cultural thing. I do not get why it still continues. Okay,
it's like we know better.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
So let me ask you a question about the violence.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
It's a history of violence, and it's the scars of
the paths living in the presence. And it's like your
parents went through something with their childhood, so that's what
they know, so that's how they start to raise you.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I totally get that, but ultimately, at some point somebody
has to say, uh, we're not going to do that.
It's it's the same thing I look at. I have
friends whose parents were alcoholics when we were kids, and
they were the kind of alcoholics were drunk all the time.
Most of them have never touched the drop of alcohol
because they knew they could do better, and they've done better.
And that's my It's like, we can always use the
(17:02):
excuse of what our parents, you know, went through. My
parents had horrible childhoods, like just god awful, two totally
separate kinds of horrible childhoods, but they worked kind of
double time. Did not inflict that on us. You see
what I'm saying. It's like, well, you're.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Talking about removing the victim mentality, and I think.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
That's what it's I mean, you think that's combined in there.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yes, I can tell you because I've seen it, I've
lived it, and I know people who are still going
through it because they were told that they were victims.
I was told that I was only destined for two things, right,
death or in jail.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
That's what I was told.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
That is just right.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
So you're constantly told that by your community, people outside
of your community, politicians, and society itself. So you tend
to fall into that trap. This is the only thing
that I'm capable of doing, right until I found this
teacher who shouldn't have been in our in the city school,
guy named mister Shirker.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Right, this white hippie dude who.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Introduced me to Kreta's clear Water Revivor because he played
with the guitar. He showed me that it was an
entirely different world. Right, And I'm like, this dude who
doesn't look like me, open up my world and not
every kid got it.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
Well, that's what I got it. That's what busting did
in the late seventies eighties. To me, it brought me
to from across down from East Denver all the way
to Southeast Denver, and I had learned I went to
school with just different children and I just learned different things,
went to different birthday parties, saw different things, and it
just opened my mind up to there's differences, and you know,
(18:42):
there's more than what I.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Grew up what I'm growing up around.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
With the key thing that you said, and we talked
about it before we jumped on air, Open Mind and
that's where you have to start. So many people that
I know who look like me, they have a closed mind. Yeah,
I see, they can't. They can't see the forest for
the trees because everyone that looks that doesn't look like
them is viewed as being the enemy or threat.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
That's right, But don't you think and.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
This is okay, We're gonna take a time out here
because I want to formulate this question the right way.
And I think that us against them mentality is very
interesting because I don't have that about people of another race.
I have it about political foes, but even then I
try not to us versus them because obviously we see
where that's going right now. But I've never felt that
(19:30):
way about people of other races. And maybe it's because
I'm white.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Well, and I don't have.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
To you know, you know, you as a black man,
you feel that on the on your back all the time.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Well, all that thought, Steven, We're gonna come back. Where
was Steven Williams. He's one of my listeners who just said, Manny,
come on, you're a white check from the suburbs. While
are you talking about this? And of course Nick Ferguson
will be right back to continue the conversation question from
the text line. You can text us at the Common
Spirit Health text line at five six six, and I
know this textter said, I love this conversation. I grew
up in a very poor neighborhood in Pueblo and witnessed
the same kind of poverty and violence. But I've never
(20:01):
felt there wasn't a way out. By the way, I'm
white and the neighborhood was very mixed race. My question
is where does this idea that you have limited options
in life come from? Is it internal to the community,
outside the community, or both. And I want to kind
of add a little something to this to this question,
because I know really poor white people in the area
(20:25):
where I grew up that did not want their kids
to go to college because the kids would have outstripped
the family in terms of achievement. I'm not kidding. I
tried to give books like books that a girl that
was living down the street from us, and she was
going into sixth grade or seventh grade, i can't remember
which one, and they were reading books like Little Women
(20:47):
and you know, classics, and I had them all and
I'm like, I'm never going to read these books again.
So I tried to give them to her and I said, here,
I'm not using these. Go ahead. I was going to
donate in the library. Her mom brought them back and said,
we don't need your charity, and I said, well, I
don't consider it charity. I consider it sharing because I'm
not going to read the books anymore. But that kind
of mentality, and it also comes down to I think
(21:07):
sometimes it's easier to believe you're a victim because it
relieves you of any responsibility for your outcomes. That's a
lot in there.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
So no, no, it is exactly right, because the whole.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Idea, when you know more, you can do better.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
It goes back to being competent, because your security in
life is your ability, right, your ability to go out
and if whether it's a skilled laborer or even being
an athlete. Right, the idea is that your security in
life is your ability to be competent, and some individuals.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Don't want to do that.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
That's why when I think about certain members and my
family who I know who have been on government assistants
ever since I was eight years old, they're still on
government assistance because they could not break outside of that box.
They wanted to remain in that box and be seen
as a victim. If you see yourself as a victim,
you will remain as a victim, and those who are
(22:03):
in charge will utilize that against you as as though
we see in the current climate.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah, how about you, Stephen.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Yeah, I believe that that's that's very true if you're
not going to try to work hard and try to
work to get your self out of that situation, and
it's it's basically on you. I really, uh tried to
work hard in school. Didn't go to the highest didn't
(22:31):
go to Harvard, didn't go to Harvard, you know. I
went to a technical school, went to a community school,
community college before that. That just worked my way up
a lot of places I worked at. I was the
only one I saw it looked like me, you know,
and that kind of you know that puts that thing
on your back, is like and you know, I got
to do better. I have to always have to stand out,
(22:52):
you know. I know all eyes are only watching, and
I got to do good to make it less harder
for the next brother comes out.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
I know that. I know that feeling in this industry
as a woman. I've been in this industry for twenty
five years. Do you know how many other women have
their own talk shows like I do in this industry
right now? I can count them on one hand, and
that's insane. It's insane. So I absolutely identify with that.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Where am I at?
Speaker 4 (23:18):
It seems like I'm like one of the only two,
one of the early ones. And that just makes me
wonder why I know they're out there? Why where are
these people working at?
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I got to tell you, I do think that there's
a lot of It is easier to lean into victimhood
that is familiar because if you are part of a
family that has lived in poverty on assistance, that is
what you know, right, that is familiar to you, and
it is the old adages. The devil you know is
better than the devil you don't. But it's like, how
(23:49):
do we break that curse? Because that is a curse.
Believing that this is all you can achieve is a curse.
It is a self fulfilling prophecy. That is the most damaging.
Just the victim centered ideology drives me crazy because all
it does is hurt you, you.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Know, and you know, Mandy, I have friends that I
grew up in my old neighborhood with and some of
those friends I lost over the years because they felt
as though I forgot where I came from.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
You got up any right exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
We're finding out that we have a lot more in
common here though.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
The week people had to let go to the wayside
because the whole idea, and I know this now, that
those individuals who are low toned individuals, they're looking to
be an anchor and pull you down. They want you
to be where they are and in my culture, right
and this may sound like a generalization, but I'm talking
about myself and my culture. It is almost like forbidden,
(24:49):
like no, no, no, you can't succeed. Oh, you think
you better than all of us. And there was even
a but.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
You know what that is, You're you're you're shining a
mirror on their failures to do the same. You're basically
holding the mirror and said you're going to be better. No, no, no,
but but that's what you're doing accidentally. That's why they
don't like it. That's why they want you down where
they are, because if you succeed, they have to admit
I could probably have succeeded too, but I didn't do it.
I didn't put the work in. I didn't do the workouts.
(25:16):
I didn't keep trying. I didn't keep hustling like in
the case of nixt. I know, but I'm just saying,
this is what people do. I got told when I
went home. This was many years ago. I'm from a
small town and because of this job, I have gotten
to do some of the coolest stuff in the world,
like just the coolest things. And I talk about my
life and the stuff that we do because that's what
(25:37):
this my life. I went home and I was talking
to a bunch of friends and I got back to
a Facebook message that told me that I needed to
stop bragging. Everybody didn't need to know every fabulous thing
that I did. And I just wrote back, I didn't
even scratch the surface on the fabulous stuff that I
have done because I won't apologize for success. We will
never apologize for success.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Yeah, there are a lot of haters out there that
want to drag you down and they don't want to
see you succeed.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
And said, how do we fix it? How do we
change that? How do we Because if I go into
try and assist, now I'm called a white savior. That's
happened to me a couple times, and it's like, dude,
I'm just trying to help people who need help. I
don't care what color they are. I just know that
there are people, especially people in poverty, that don't even
their view of the world is so narrow that I'm
(26:23):
just trying widen it a little bit.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Okay, let me say something really quickly about and you
can tell me if you've experiences and the black culture
in Miami where I grew up, no one wants someone
who looked like you, Mandy, to come in and help
even though they're in desperate need of help because ideas
that we cannot trust you, because why are you coming
to deliver help to us in this particular moment, in
(26:45):
our twenty fifth hour?
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Right, what are you trying to get from us? Right?
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Know? It as though that's been happening to our culture
for a long period of time. Sure, I'm going to
give you something, I want something in return. Right, Because
if we go back to the nineteen sixty four Civil
Rights Act and we think about what happened as far
as housing is concerned at HUD and all of those things,
why did that happen? And then the comments that LBJ
(27:11):
made that I came across that they did not teach
us in school now, and it blew my mind. I
was like, holy crap, this dude was ahead of his time.
And guess what he was right?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, and the comments that we're talking about is is
LBJ said now the N words will be voting for
Democrats for forever when he signed the Civil Rights Yeah,
and I want to talk about the N word when
we get back. We got to take a quick break,
but we have a couple of people online that said, okay,
let's talk about the N word. Can Why?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Why?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Because I got to tell you, like, when I hear
even like young black men casually it it, it gets
my hackles up.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I have not heard a white person say it. Probably
cackles are what white people say when the skin goes
up on the back of the Yeah, that's a white
person term before.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
The white person Dictionary is here for you anytime next.
But let's talk about the N word when we get
back with Nick Ferguson, Stephen Stephen Williams will be right back.
I'm here with Stephen Williams, and I'm here with Nick
Ferguson having our conversation about black culture. It's been very,
very interesting you guys. But I want to ask a question.
Multiple people on the text line are asking some variation
of can we talk about the N word? And only
(28:21):
one person said why can they use it? Why can't I?
But mostly it's like, why do why do black people
so use a word that is so negative in its origins?
Speaker 4 (28:33):
I think we just were trying to own it, trying
to give it less power.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
If we own it, well, if we're gone past that
now you know what I mean? As it can we
all just agree, like to not speak nicely. That sounds
like I'm mister Rogers or something, but you know what
I mean. It's like because it's shocking to hear it,
and it still do this day. It shocks me when
I hear it in person. When I hear it in
a song, I'm not as shocked.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Weirdly, yeah, I think it's getting to a point where
people are becoming desensitized by I know when I was
growing up, we could not say it. My mom would
always say, don't bring that street talk in her house.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
And I love your mom. I don't even know I
love her.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
And if you did, I mean you got a warm backhand, right, yes,
but it's one of those things and the troubles. I
have this conversation with a lot of my friends and
some have changed tried to change the meeting and say, well,
but the er is different from the A or whatever,
and it's a term.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Of endre math. It's like, but we can.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Express ourselves in a different manner where we don't have
to actually say and then go back to the fact
of what the house what is the household? Like?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
What's being taught in the household? Because I didn't.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Grow up saying it, and I didn't grow upside, but
I wasn't around my mom and I didn't I continue
to say, no, it wasn't those things. My kids don't
say it now and they dare not ever said around
me or it's going to be a problem. But to me,
we need to kind of of take the heat off
the word. And you know, like you said, some people think, okay, well,
(30:06):
just saying it kind of diffuses and takes off the
tension power away from right.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I know there.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
I've been at places before and this question was asked,
well from someone who doesn't look like me, why can't
I say it? I say, it's a free country. You
can't say it, but you better be careful where you repercussions.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
In who you're around.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Right, Freedom speech isn't always free. It is a consequence
that comes along with it. So I hope we get
to a point where it doesn't become an issue and
we can actually do away with it. Whether someone is
saying that it was terms of endearment or something meant
to be derogatory and can belittle someone.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, don't.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I'm not running around going why can't I say it?
I mean, for me, just being respectful to other people
is my default position in life, you know, I mean,
just in general, I don't call my friends the B word.
I don't, you know, I don't call other women, you
knowgatory terms. And and I just I wonder about that.
And I just think that I'm a big believer in
(31:06):
what comes out of your mouth goes into your ear holes,
and what goes into your ear holes goes into your brain.
And if you're calling someone else, even in a in
a fun you know, uh fun way, a word with
such a loaded negative connotation that goes in your ears,
and then you absorb that as a part of your identity.
And I don't think it's healthy.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Yeah, I try not to use this as part of
my little ro cavalry at all. I don't remember the
last time I've spoke it but not say. I'm cape
capable of friends not saying.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Maybe it's coming out once in a while. Okay, guys,
I I still appreciate this, and and we're gonna have
to do this again. We're gonna have to to have
the uh right. But the next time we have to
solve all of the problems in the world. So get
ready for that source. Give that some thoughts. Oh, it's
stop it. It's not just about resources that's the problem.
It's not just about resources or or you know, the
(31:57):
schools in New Jersey would be amazing and they're not.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
You know what, let me put it in context really quickly.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
When I say resources, it's we talked about doing the break.
It is skills, trade right, teaching things right. We don't
teach anything anymore, and we don't make anything anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
No, I agree with you on that. We'll talk about
we'll talk about all this on the next go round. Steven,
thanks so much for reaching out and coming form no problem.
Always good to see you. Nick Ferguson
Joining me in the studio. That voice you hear over
too much. From right to left on your radio dial.
We've got Nick Ferguson over on the right, and then
to my left, we have a new contender to the ring.
His name is Steven Williams. He's a listener to the show,
and a couple of weeks ago, I was talking about
my perception that violence is a part of black culture
in a way that it is not in other cultures
(00:22):
that I see, whether we're talking about the rate of
violent crime, or we're talking about focus on education, or
we're talking about the rate of single parenthood, which I'm hoping.
I did so much research this morning on data and statistics.
It was insane. But there's good news. That's why I'm
saying this. There's really good news though, because culturally people
are starting to say, you know what, it sucks being
(00:43):
a single parent.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I'm sure does it sucks.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I mean, parenting is a two person job. It is
some days you got to have somebody to tag out with,
you know what I mean, Just be like, you handle this.
I've had enough.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
You have kids, Nick, you know, yes, I do know,
and I know that it takes too individuals, But I
also have lived in a situation where it was just
my mom, And this is why my viewpoint is different
from some of my African American friends who come from
suburban households. Like for me, going back just a little,
I mean, when you live in hud and you're relying
(01:18):
on government assistance. The first thing I learned as a kid,
and I didn't know I was onto this when I
was ten years old, but it didn't come to fruition
two several years later. I looked around my neighborhood and
I was like, there's a lot of moms and a
lot of kids. I don't see any damn dads, So
what's going on? Like, well, what's going on with this process?
And the way that it worked was like if you
(01:39):
were a woman and you had kids, no matter how
many kids that you had, the.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Government was willing to give you assistance just.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
With one caveat no man in the household. So when
you do that, you're breaking up the family. And I
can tell you a lot of my friends didn't have fathers,
and I saw them going to entirely different directions. So
to me, this kind of breeds the victimhood right of
saying okay, well, I can't overcome my shortcomings of what
(02:07):
my life has shown me thus far, because as they
would say, but the white man is holding me down,
and it's like, no, you have the ability to overcome
that if you.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Think with that.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, and Steven, let me give you a little bit
of your background, because it takes a little bit of
a known quantity. But where'd you do you have? Are
you married? You have kids?
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Just I am married and I do not have any kids. Okay,
but my grandparents they raised five children, so there was
a mother and a father in that hosshold. But I
grew up as a single in a single household. And
I grew up in East Village. It was a it
was used to it was built for the Olympics that
were supposed to come in the lace evenues but never
(02:46):
were never, never happened, so they turned out to low
income housing. So I grew up in that same situation.
Wasn't it's right down the street from five points but
not in five Points and other projects but low income housing.
So and it was the same situation. There were just
very little for the fathers around. You just didn't see
any My father was around here and there, but it
(03:08):
just you saw what happened in that community when forthers
fathers weren't around.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
There was a lot of it creates instability, a lot
of gangs.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
People in mald and gangs, a lot of instability. It
just wasn't good. It wasn't a good.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Let me ask both of you. Was your dad ever
in your life?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Oh? Definitely?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I mean, but but we were your parents together when
you were younger and then they split up at some point.
How old were you when they stood? I was about okay?
How about you?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Nick?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Was your dad ever around? All the time?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
He was around, but they were not together.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I was younger, okay, because because my parents split up
when I was in fourth grade, So I'm older than
you guys by a little bit. And that was like
the first wave of no fault divorce. So my parents
split up when I actually fourth grade, so ten, I
was ten, and even though I lived in a small town.
And this is like, I'm kind of out in my
dad right now, and he's dead and I feel bad
about this, but we're going to have a conversation. Let's
have a conversation. My parents divorced and my father essentially
(04:05):
just was not available. Now, my father was an attorney, right.
He I found all this out much much later. So
we lived a fake suburban upper upper middle class lifestyle
is fake suburban. Wait wait, just wait, just wait. So
we lived in a really nice house, but if anything broke,
my mom had to fix it. I came home and
my mom was on the roof one day repairing roofing
(04:26):
tiles because we had no extra money. And so from
a very young age, when it was like, Okay, I
live in this neighborhood where all the other kids have stuff, Well,
if I wanted stuff I had, I had to work
for it. I mean, it was just the way it worked.
It was just and my dad later on in life
really kind of got his emotional act together and we
(04:47):
had a much different relationship as an adult on but
as a father when I was a kid, it was horrible.
So I have some sympathy to this situation.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I wasn't growing up in the projects, and I recognized
that I didn't have chaos around me. But I do
know how it feels to go like, dude, why why
am I not good enough in that way?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
You see, Mandy glad You said that because most African
American people that I know who have lived in the
inner city, the hood, the ghetto. When we look at
someone of your complexion, we think that, no, you didn't
grow up the same way that we grew up.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
We had more things that we had.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
To challenges to work with you.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
No, no, no, no.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
You had a house, right, we had a we had
project whatever.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
They were walking down to Finstos next door.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
You can hear that.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Television is what you're telling me about. And I don't
want to say that I in any way can sympathize
with that, because I can't. I can't. I don't know
what that's like. But as far as it goes like
living with just a single mom, I do understand what
it's like to have a mom who is really trying
to get it together financially.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Though, from that perspective, because you in a one parent household, right,
you got two individuals here who were in one parent.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Household, so we lived that same same life. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Well, luckily I had had two strong grandparents that like, yeah,
supplemented that dad part.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And my grandfather was great. He was like my second
he was my dad.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
See, I mean, but that's what I see now, and
it's and this is some of the statistical data that
I was digging into earlier. What we get down to
is the point Nick made about, you know, welfare programs
disincentivizing the family structure. I think it was not only
it's a feature, not a bug. And Nick, you and
I were talking off the air about you found out
(06:39):
about LBJ being a complete race. This guy was a
complete racist, I mean, full on, like horrible racist, and
simon civil Rights Act in his mind to keep black
people in line. And when you make someone more dependent
on the government, you can easily threaten their livelihood and
(07:00):
and keep their vote. So there's a lot of like
sort of undercurrents here that we can talk about. But
I want to kind of jump ahead. I want to
jump ahead to the nineteen eighties and when. And I
don't remember the seventies, so maybe it was this way
in the seventies. I'm just not old enough. But in
the eighties we started to see the rise of what
was then called gangster rap, and boy, it created a kerfuffle.
(07:20):
I mean, Tipper Gore is still mad about it to
this day, I'm sure. I mean she was salty about it.
And for a lot of people like me, like the
white girl from the suburbs. It gave me a window
into a world that I was completely unaware of until
that moment. I loved it. I mean I wasn't out
there dancing, but I went to see shows in bars
(07:40):
where I was literally one of like five white people
because I loved the music. I thought it was so
interesting in your mind. Did that rise up as a
reflection or a glorification of what was being seen by
these rappers?
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I would say it was kind of a reflection. You
wanted people outside your neighborhood to know what you were
going through on a daily basis. Right when you think
about some of the early hip hop that was coming
out of New York and just think about what New
York City.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Crush, Yeah, crush, groovy, Yes, you had Mellow Vale, Yes,
grand Master Flash, that stuff coming up. You know, it
was groovy and it was gritty in New York. But
it wasn't that much violence in that music that late seventies,
early eighties.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
It was part of music. Yes, that was part of music.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
And then that kind of melded into like more morphed
Yeah that kid and play yeah that kid and played
dance at you know, house party movies. It was all fun, fun,
and then it's that somehow it took a hard turn
just and just got hard.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Well, the reason it did that because what we're describing
right now is East Coast rap right, and then West
Coast rap Rappers were like, well, we want to make
sure that people understand the environment that we're dealing with.
So they talked about the drive bonds, they talked about
the run in with lapd right, and that just changed
rap scene.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Well, it was also commensurate at that time with the
rise of crack cocaine. So I'm telling you, I read
a lot of stuff this morning. Okay, So it all
kind of went together in that violence on the streets
was being reflected in the music. But the reason I
asked this is how much does culture drive culture? How
much does entertainment drive culture? And how much does culture
(09:21):
drive entertainment? Do you understand what I'm asking.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
It was I got into.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
A real deep YouTube video about this guy was talking
about there was a difference between certain certain am blacks
and a different class of blacks where they were just
trying to warph into what they saw on television and
(09:44):
and not being their own people. And and I just
think that everything just got out of control and things
just started. Everybody just started really just going I think
it was just a lot of people just going overboard
(10:05):
Ella with a you know, ice Cube coming out with
his whole his own genre of rap music which just
told about everything was going on the streets.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
You know, do you think they viewed that as a
way out of their circumstances that seemed easy somehow.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Or easier Okay, so not easier.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Once again, you are wanting to let people know what
your life is like, right right, and sometimes the harsh
reality and the visual was too hard for most people
to actually embrace. Like, wow, these people in the inner
city of you know, Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, Miami
are living this particular way and this was the only
(10:44):
way for the artists to really portray to the public
what their lives were like. And when you think about resources,
there were not a lot of resources in the inner
city area. So what was happening is that you start
to emulate what it is that you see, because now
you're saying, I see someone else across town who is
going through the same thing that I'm going through, So
you embodied that. I remember being in the seventh grade
(11:06):
and summer school and my teacher let us watch Colors
for the first time. Wow, old, I think, I mean
might have been, you know, fourteen or something like that,
and I saw Colors and I was like.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Wait a minute.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
So there's a group of people in Los Angeles who
deal with this. Now, in Miami there were gangs, but
it was more like it was drug games.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
It was entirely different than it was in California.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
And I couldn't believe it as a person growing up
in the city, like, there's another section of African American
people who are dealing with that on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
So you just felt like there was a group there
that you finally found a place in a weird way.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, because even you're not alone.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yes, that's what we're all looking forward to say. You
know what, I'm not alone because you feel as though
you were long but when you see other individuals going
through that struggle.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Even as bad as it is, it goes, well, I'm
not by myself. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
And then you sat up proliferate throughout the United States
where with all the wannabes everything, and you know, because
Denver doesn't really have metro area, doesn't really have a
project is I mean, it's they have projects, but it's not.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Like the projection. Yeah, everything like that.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
So a lot of people just started emulating that over
here and start I emulated all and went all through
the Midwest's emulation, and it started feeding off each other.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
But at what point because ultimately, and let's talk about
black crime for a moment, because black men specifically are
over represented in the categories of violent crime as a
percentage of the population, they make up about eight percent
of the population, and they commit overwhelmingly like a lot
of murders. They're like forty three percent of murders are
and they're they're mostly victimizing other black victims, right, So
(12:48):
these are black people victimizing black people. What has to
change here because we've now seen over the years, we've
seen we need more money for education. But then, you know,
my sister at a Title one school in Florida, this
was a very very very poor student body, meaning poverty wise.
Some of these kids were just brilliant, like super smart kids,
(13:10):
just really grinding poverty and the differences between the way
the parents handled children. And maybe this is the function
of being a single mom. But she called a kid
a kid's mom to say, your kid is super bright,
Like this boy is smart, but he's got to sit
still and stop talking in class. Like that's how she
(13:32):
started super smart. She came up to the school and
whooped him at school, put a beat down on that
kid at school, and was like, I can never call
a parent again if that's what's going to happen, because
what I was hoping was will lead with the your
kid is incredibly smart, and he was. He ended up
going to college on a math scholarship. But all the
(13:55):
mom heard was your kid's acting the full come up
here and give him a whooping, And she was like,
I've never seen anything like that. That's kind of the
stuff that I'm talking about in the sense that like
if kids are getting beaten, when they're getting getting even
for mom, if they deserve it, that still sets the
tone that physical violence is the way to solve a problem.
And for the most part, like white people are trying
(14:15):
to move away. Now, I'm not going to tell you
that they're not white people who beat their kids. Obviously
there are. They're horrible people that do horrible things, but
as a general rule, culturally that has shifted, and yet
that did not shift for that mama.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Well, in my in my school, yes that happened, and
we knew because that kid who was acting up he
that he's now straight, and we go, oh, that's your mom.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Let's tell you what.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
White people do. White people show up the next day
at school and sit in the class with the kid.
They're saying, look, you're gonna work.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Well see when I was a kid, that was still
a thing. But since then it's it's just kind of
changed a little bit. But it's like, what is it
about that particular thing that just bothers me?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Because because in the Bible it says up.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
The child and I heard that a lot.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
As a kid, and I'm like, well, uh, I don't
think that God intended it to be read and interpreted
the way that you guys interpreted. So that means that
anytime you act up, you got to think about it.
You're a single black mom in the inner city, and
if you have a job and the school is calling you,
you now have to leave your job to go to
(15:28):
that school. Oh yes, somebody gets a business, Yes, depending.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Have to get there. How hard it was for her
to get there?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yes, I get all that, But it's like, if we
as you know, I always say you have to be
creative about how how you punish your kids. You got
to find their weak spot and you just got to
put the screws to it, you know whatever.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
That is.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Like our oldest kid hated to be outside. He's a
computer guy. He's still a computer guy outside. So the
one time he came home after he'd been at a
party and had been drinking, what did it? What did
we do? The next morning? At seven am in Florida,
in oh he pulled every weed in our weed youdn't.
I could hear him puke and outside the whole time,
(16:08):
and I was like, stay out there, stay out there
all day in the garden. Well it didn't matter. It
was fine. But you know, it's stuff like that that
I look at and go culturally that that is a
cultural thing. I do not get why it still continues. Okay,
it's like we know better.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
So let me ask you a question about the violence.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
It's a history of violence, and it's the scars of
the paths living in the presence. And it's like your
parents went through something with their childhood, so that's what
they know, so that's how they start to raise you.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I totally get that, but ultimately, at some point somebody
has to say, uh, we're not going to do that.
It's it's the same thing I look at. I have
friends whose parents were alcoholics when we were kids, and
they were the kind of alcoholics were drunk all the time.
Most of them have never touched the drop of alcohol
because they knew they could do better, and they've done better.
And that's my It's like, we can always use the
(17:02):
excuse of what our parents, you know, went through. My
parents had horrible childhoods, like just god awful, two totally
separate kinds of horrible childhoods, but they worked kind of
double time. Did not inflict that on us. You see
what I'm saying. It's like, well, you're.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Talking about removing the victim mentality, and I think.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
That's what it's I mean, you think that's combined in there.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yes, I can tell you because I've seen it, I've
lived it, and I know people who are still going
through it because they were told that they were victims.
I was told that I was only destined for two things, right,
death or in jail.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
That's what I was told.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
That is just right.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
So you're constantly told that by your community, people outside
of your community, politicians, and society itself. So you tend
to fall into that trap. This is the only thing
that I'm capable of doing, right until I found this
teacher who shouldn't have been in our in the city school,
guy named mister Shirker.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Right, this white hippie dude who.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Introduced me to Kreta's clear Water Revivor because he played
with the guitar. He showed me that it was an
entirely different world. Right, And I'm like, this dude who
doesn't look like me, open up my world and not
every kid got it.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
Well, that's what I got it. That's what busting did
in the late seventies eighties. To me, it brought me
to from across down from East Denver all the way
to Southeast Denver, and I had learned I went to
school with just different children and I just learned different things,
went to different birthday parties, saw different things, and it
just opened my mind up to there's differences, and you know,
(18:42):
there's more than what I.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Grew up what I'm growing up around.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
With the key thing that you said, and we talked
about it before we jumped on air, Open Mind and
that's where you have to start. So many people that
I know who look like me, they have a closed mind. Yeah,
I see, they can't. They can't see the forest for
the trees because everyone that looks that doesn't look like
them is viewed as being the enemy or threat.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
That's right, But don't you think and.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
This is okay, We're gonna take a time out here
because I want to formulate this question the right way.
And I think that us against them mentality is very
interesting because I don't have that about people of another race.
I have it about political foes, but even then I
try not to us versus them because obviously we see
where that's going right now. But I've never felt that
(19:30):
way about people of other races. And maybe it's because
I'm white.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Well, and I don't have.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
To you know, you know, you as a black man,
you feel that on the on your back all the time.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Well, all that thought, Steven, We're gonna come back. Where
was Steven Williams. He's one of my listeners who just said, Manny,
come on, you're a white check from the suburbs. While
are you talking about this? And of course Nick Ferguson
will be right back to continue the conversation question from
the text line. You can text us at the Common
Spirit Health text line at five six six, and I
know this textter said, I love this conversation. I grew
up in a very poor neighborhood in Pueblo and witnessed
the same kind of poverty and violence. But I've never
(20:01):
felt there wasn't a way out. By the way, I'm
white and the neighborhood was very mixed race. My question
is where does this idea that you have limited options
in life come from? Is it internal to the community,
outside the community, or both. And I want to kind
of add a little something to this to this question,
because I know really poor white people in the area
(20:25):
where I grew up that did not want their kids
to go to college because the kids would have outstripped
the family in terms of achievement. I'm not kidding. I
tried to give books like books that a girl that
was living down the street from us, and she was
going into sixth grade or seventh grade, i can't remember
which one, and they were reading books like Little Women
(20:47):
and you know, classics, and I had them all and
I'm like, I'm never going to read these books again.
So I tried to give them to her and I said, here,
I'm not using these. Go ahead. I was going to
donate in the library. Her mom brought them back and said,
we don't need your charity, and I said, well, I
don't consider it charity. I consider it sharing because I'm
not going to read the books anymore. But that kind
of mentality, and it also comes down to I think
(21:07):
sometimes it's easier to believe you're a victim because it
relieves you of any responsibility for your outcomes. That's a
lot in there.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
So no, no, it is exactly right, because the whole.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Idea, when you know more, you can do better.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
It goes back to being competent, because your security in
life is your ability, right, your ability to go out
and if whether it's a skilled laborer or even being
an athlete. Right, the idea is that your security in
life is your ability to be competent, and some individuals.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Don't want to do that.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
That's why when I think about certain members and my
family who I know who have been on government assistants
ever since I was eight years old, they're still on
government assistance because they could not break outside of that box.
They wanted to remain in that box and be seen
as a victim. If you see yourself as a victim,
you will remain as a victim, and those who are
(22:03):
in charge will utilize that against you as as though
we see in the current climate.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah, how about you, Stephen.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Yeah, I believe that that's that's very true if you're
not going to try to work hard and try to
work to get your self out of that situation, and
it's it's basically on you. I really, uh tried to
work hard in school. Didn't go to the highest didn't
(22:31):
go to Harvard, didn't go to Harvard, you know. I
went to a technical school, went to a community school,
community college before that. That just worked my way up
a lot of places I worked at. I was the
only one I saw it looked like me, you know,
and that kind of you know that puts that thing
on your back, is like and you know, I got
to do better. I have to always have to stand out,
(22:52):
you know. I know all eyes are only watching, and
I got to do good to make it less harder
for the next brother comes out.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
I know that. I know that feeling in this industry
as a woman. I've been in this industry for twenty
five years. Do you know how many other women have
their own talk shows like I do in this industry
right now? I can count them on one hand, and
that's insane. It's insane. So I absolutely identify with that.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Where am I at?
Speaker 4 (23:18):
It seems like I'm like one of the only two,
one of the early ones. And that just makes me
wonder why I know they're out there? Why where are
these people working at?
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I got to tell you, I do think that there's
a lot of It is easier to lean into victimhood
that is familiar because if you are part of a
family that has lived in poverty on assistance, that is
what you know, right, that is familiar to you, and
it is the old adages. The devil you know is
better than the devil you don't. But it's like, how
(23:49):
do we break that curse? Because that is a curse.
Believing that this is all you can achieve is a curse.
It is a self fulfilling prophecy. That is the most damaging.
Just the victim centered ideology drives me crazy because all
it does is hurt you, you.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Know, and you know, Mandy, I have friends that I
grew up in my old neighborhood with and some of
those friends I lost over the years because they felt
as though I forgot where I came from.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
You got up any right exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
We're finding out that we have a lot more in
common here though.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
The week people had to let go to the wayside
because the whole idea, and I know this now, that
those individuals who are low toned individuals, they're looking to
be an anchor and pull you down. They want you
to be where they are and in my culture, right
and this may sound like a generalization, but I'm talking
about myself and my culture. It is almost like forbidden,
(24:49):
like no, no, no, you can't succeed. Oh, you think
you better than all of us. And there was even
a but.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
You know what that is, You're you're you're shining a
mirror on their failures to do the same. You're basically
holding the mirror and said you're going to be better. No, no, no,
but but that's what you're doing accidentally. That's why they
don't like it. That's why they want you down where
they are, because if you succeed, they have to admit
I could probably have succeeded too, but I didn't do it.
I didn't put the work in. I didn't do the workouts.
(25:16):
I didn't keep trying. I didn't keep hustling like in
the case of nixt. I know, but I'm just saying,
this is what people do. I got told when I
went home. This was many years ago. I'm from a
small town and because of this job, I have gotten
to do some of the coolest stuff in the world,
like just the coolest things. And I talk about my
life and the stuff that we do because that's what
(25:37):
this my life. I went home and I was talking
to a bunch of friends and I got back to
a Facebook message that told me that I needed to
stop bragging. Everybody didn't need to know every fabulous thing
that I did. And I just wrote back, I didn't
even scratch the surface on the fabulous stuff that I
have done because I won't apologize for success. We will
never apologize for success.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Yeah, there are a lot of haters out there that
want to drag you down and they don't want to
see you succeed.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
And said, how do we fix it? How do we
change that? How do we Because if I go into
try and assist, now I'm called a white savior. That's
happened to me a couple times, and it's like, dude,
I'm just trying to help people who need help. I
don't care what color they are. I just know that
there are people, especially people in poverty, that don't even
their view of the world is so narrow that I'm
(26:23):
just trying widen it a little bit.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Okay, let me say something really quickly about and you
can tell me if you've experiences and the black culture
in Miami where I grew up, no one wants someone
who looked like you, Mandy, to come in and help
even though they're in desperate need of help because ideas
that we cannot trust you, because why are you coming
to deliver help to us in this particular moment, in
(26:45):
our twenty fifth hour?
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Right, what are you trying to get from us? Right?
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Know? It as though that's been happening to our culture
for a long period of time. Sure, I'm going to
give you something, I want something in return. Right, Because
if we go back to the nineteen sixty four Civil
Rights Act and we think about what happened as far
as housing is concerned at HUD and all of those things,
why did that happen? And then the comments that LBJ
(27:11):
made that I came across that they did not teach
us in school now, and it blew my mind. I
was like, holy crap, this dude was ahead of his time.
And guess what he was right?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, and the comments that we're talking about is is
LBJ said now the N words will be voting for
Democrats for forever when he signed the Civil Rights Yeah,
and I want to talk about the N word when
we get back. We got to take a quick break,
but we have a couple of people online that said, okay,
let's talk about the N word. Can Why?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Why?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Because I got to tell you, like, when I hear
even like young black men casually it it, it gets
my hackles up.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I have not heard a white person say it. Probably
cackles are what white people say when the skin goes
up on the back of the Yeah, that's a white
person term before.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
The white person Dictionary is here for you anytime next.
But let's talk about the N word when we get
back with Nick Ferguson, Stephen Stephen Williams will be right back.
I'm here with Stephen Williams, and I'm here with Nick
Ferguson having our conversation about black culture. It's been very,
very interesting you guys. But I want to ask a question.
Multiple people on the text line are asking some variation
of can we talk about the N word? And only
(28:21):
one person said why can they use it? Why can't I?
But mostly it's like, why do why do black people
so use a word that is so negative in its origins?
Speaker 4 (28:33):
I think we just were trying to own it, trying
to give it less power.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
If we own it, well, if we're gone past that
now you know what I mean? As it can we
all just agree, like to not speak nicely. That sounds
like I'm mister Rogers or something, but you know what
I mean. It's like because it's shocking to hear it,
and it still do this day. It shocks me when
I hear it in person. When I hear it in
a song, I'm not as shocked.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Weirdly, yeah, I think it's getting to a point where
people are becoming desensitized by I know when I was
growing up, we could not say it. My mom would
always say, don't bring that street talk in her house.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
And I love your mom. I don't even know I
love her.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
And if you did, I mean you got a warm backhand, right, yes,
but it's one of those things and the troubles. I
have this conversation with a lot of my friends and
some have changed tried to change the meeting and say, well,
but the er is different from the A or whatever,
and it's a term.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Of endre math. It's like, but we can.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Express ourselves in a different manner where we don't have
to actually say and then go back to the fact
of what the house what is the household? Like?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
What's being taught in the household? Because I didn't.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Grow up saying it, and I didn't grow upside, but
I wasn't around my mom and I didn't I continue
to say, no, it wasn't those things. My kids don't
say it now and they dare not ever said around
me or it's going to be a problem. But to me,
we need to kind of of take the heat off
the word. And you know, like you said, some people think, okay, well,
(30:06):
just saying it kind of diffuses and takes off the
tension power away from right.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I know there.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
I've been at places before and this question was asked,
well from someone who doesn't look like me, why can't
I say it? I say, it's a free country. You
can't say it, but you better be careful where you repercussions.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
In who you're around.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Right, Freedom speech isn't always free. It is a consequence
that comes along with it. So I hope we get
to a point where it doesn't become an issue and
we can actually do away with it. Whether someone is
saying that it was terms of endearment or something meant
to be derogatory and can belittle someone.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, don't.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I'm not running around going why can't I say it?
I mean, for me, just being respectful to other people
is my default position in life, you know, I mean,
just in general, I don't call my friends the B word.
I don't, you know, I don't call other women, you
knowgatory terms. And and I just I wonder about that.
And I just think that I'm a big believer in
(31:06):
what comes out of your mouth goes into your ear holes,
and what goes into your ear holes goes into your brain.
And if you're calling someone else, even in a in
a fun you know, uh fun way, a word with
such a loaded negative connotation that goes in your ears,
and then you absorb that as a part of your identity.
And I don't think it's healthy.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Yeah, I try not to use this as part of
my little ro cavalry at all. I don't remember the
last time I've spoke it but not say. I'm cape
capable of friends not saying.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Maybe it's coming out once in a while. Okay, guys,
I I still appreciate this, and and we're gonna have
to do this again. We're gonna have to to have
the uh right. But the next time we have to
solve all of the problems in the world. So get
ready for that source. Give that some thoughts. Oh, it's
stop it. It's not just about resources that's the problem.
It's not just about resources or or you know, the
(31:57):
schools in New Jersey would be amazing and they're not.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
You know what, let me put it in context really quickly.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
When I say resources, it's we talked about doing the break.
It is skills, trade right, teaching things right. We don't
teach anything anymore, and we don't make anything anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
No, I agree with you on that. We'll talk about
we'll talk about all this on the next go round. Steven,
thanks so much for reaching out and coming form no problem.
Always good to see you. Nick Ferguson
The Mandy Connell Podcast News
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