10-21-25 Interview - Paul Pazen - Colorado Let Too Many Criminals Out of Jail

COLORADO LET TOO MANY CRIMINALS OUT OF JAIL And joining me today to talk about a new study from the Common Sense Institute that shows just how many and just how bad things have gotten is former Police Chief Paul Pazen.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We have on the other end of the line, and
just a moment after he's connected properly, we have former
police chief Paul Payson who is now with the Common
Sense Institute. Good to see it.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Paul.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Yep Manby.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's so good to see to you.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
You know, I got to tell you sometimes you do
studies that surprise me. Right, I see things the Common
Sense does and I think, wow, that is shocking. This
is the least shocking study I have read in my life.
And I want you to kind of give the thumbnail
sketch because my only beef is a little bit the
way the study is laid out, the way you wrote it,
you kind of buried the lead. Right, You're like, oh, look,

(00:37):
recidivism is down. So a person reading that could think,
oh my gosh, rehabilitation in prison is really working. But
the reality is we're just not arresting people. That's how
we're keeping recidivism down. What did this study? First of all,
what did it study? And what did you guys find?

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Well, Mandy, thanks again for having me. I love that
you laid it out perfectly there. There's common sense associated
with this Common Sense Institute. It is not as shocker
that as individuals that commit crimes in our community are

(01:15):
pushed out of prison, then all of a sudden, crime
goes up. Really, figure number eight within the report shows
nearly one for one correlation that as we pushed folks
out in the reform paradox. That's exactly the meaning of
the title, that there was a lot of push to

(01:37):
try to get folks out of prisons, whether that be
economically because it costs a lot of money to incarcerate folks,
or because we wanted to feel better about ourselves. However,
what the report shows is that it times with state
legislation that as these changes were made that essentially water

(02:01):
down the laws, that you see increases in crime rate.
Also of note is figure number eleven and figure twelve,
where it's long been talked about. With auto theft, Colorado
was at or below the national average for years and
years and years and years. Then we water down the

(02:22):
laws in twenty fourteen, it shoots straight up. We continue
to water down the laws in seventeen, nineteen, twenty twenty one,
and it just skyrockets when we decide to take it
seriously and give Aurora a lot of credit because they
enacted in an ordinance before the State of Colorado. You

(02:45):
start to once the penalties are brought back, you start
to see decreases. So Aurora led the way. Then the
State of Colorado acted, they refelinize auto theft, and now
we are seeing drops. Really, the report points out that
the scales of justice are supposed to be blind, and

(03:06):
when you lean towards offenders, then public safety is negatively impacted,
and that's what's driving a lot of Colorado's crime rate.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
One thing that did shock me genuinely was, first of all,
the amount of money that has been quote saved by
these measures in terms of getting people out of prison
has been dwarfed. It's just been blown out of the
water by the amount of money that we're now spending
on violent crime and violent crime victims and prosecuting violent crime.

(03:36):
So that argument that we're going to save money doing this,
that seems to me to be completely discredited by this report.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
You're exactly right. I'm so glad that you noted that
really the push was to reduce the burden, the budget
burden on the State of Colorado. Well, those costs are
then passed on to cities and counties who have to
bear the brunt of it. And that's just a dollar figure,
but it takes away from the real impact, and the

(04:06):
real impact is on everyday Colorado's who are victims of
these crimes, serious crimes, that are harmed by these crimes.
And the NIH did a study and shows each criminal
offense there's a dollar figure associated with that. So in
order to save money on incarceration rates for the state

(04:29):
of Colorado, we're actually causing more budget impact throughout the
state in different areas, and our community members are being
harmed as results of it.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
That's the part that I don't think really gets captured
in this because this is all the graphs in this
study alone are worth your time. Okay, they are shocking
the graphs that they put together, but these are numbers,
but they're also people, Right, There's human beings that are
being negatively impacted. There are human beings who are being
victim hot, there are human beings whose neighborhoods are being

(05:03):
turned into a hollow shell of what they once were. So,
I mean, Paul, this is really powerful stuff. What would
you like to see happen? And I'm asking former police
chief Paul Payson. I'm not asking you to speak for
common sense, but what do we need to reverse first?
What laws need to be changed first in your view,
to sort of start walking some of this back into

(05:25):
some measurable amount of control.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Well, Mandy, again, this is why you're so great and
your show is so great. You get it, You understand it, right.
Those are charts, and those charts jump off the page
when you see these correlations. But it is people, It
is human beings. It's our fellow Coloradans that are being
harmed in their own community. And that cost is exorbitant,

(05:53):
and so really, what this does is it outlines. I
talked about the auto theft and bad legislation led to
dramatic increases where we were the highest crime rate in
the state or in the entire country for auto theft.
Also fentanyl or overdose poisonings, we were fairly level across

(06:16):
the country. And then in twenty nineteen we passed the
legislation that defelainizes and all cocaine or excuse me, methamphetamine
and heroin, and immediately you see a spike in overdose depths, poisonings.
And then they tightened the legislation in twenty twenty two,
and you see a dip in people dying as a

(06:41):
result of overdoses. So really the purpose of the report
is timed before the state legislature to be a mirror
on what the laws changes. This push to weaken the laws,
to water down the laws, to side with offenders, head
of the community in public safety, and hopefully make some

(07:05):
adjustments because when they made adjustments, as Aurora and the
state did with auto theft, then you see the decreases
in crime. Also of note, and I'm sorry I'm taking
a little bit of time Sere, but there was ballid
initiatives last year that really should speak to the state
legislature that talked about the community members, the Coloradin's being

(07:28):
fed up with crime, and they didn't wait for the
state legislature to act. These passed overwhelmingly twenty eight and
one thirty that showed that Coloradins believe in safety. To
try to help a few, we've actually harmed the many,
and the many have stood up and said no, I

(07:49):
want to be safe in my community.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Amen to that, Former Chief Paul Payson, I very much
appreciate your work at common Sense. You guys are just
crushing it over there this study. If you don't even
read the dang study, just go look at the graphs
to see exactly what he's talking about. And this I'm
hoping will be a big conversation as we go into
the gubernatorial race next year about what we're going to

(08:12):
do to make Colorado safe for all. We'll see what
that looks like. Chief, thanks for the time today for
having me, all right you. That is former police chief
Paul Payson with the Common Sense Institute.