October 24, 2024 • 10 mins
THERE'S A DEBATE ON RANKED CHOICE VOTING TONIGHT And I'm going to chat with Nick Troiano about it at 1:30. Two former Secretaries of State have come forward to support Proposition 131 that would change the way we vote in Colorado and one of them is now Aurora Mayor Mike Coffman and he wrote about it with Bernie Buescher here. Find out more about the debate tonight by clicking here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Nick Troyano with Unit America is going to be at
a debate tonight at DU I believe I looked earlier
and there was still some tickets left. Nick Troyano, who's
joining me now? But I've got information about it on
the blog today, Nick, can we do a rapid speed
round of question and answer about Prop one thirty one?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Happy to Mandy first of all, tell my listeners briefly
what it does.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
This makes two changes to our elections that will give
voters a lot more choice and power in their elections.
The first is in the primary instead of you're an
independent choosing between a Democratic or Republican primary, and everybody
gets one ballot, and you can vote for the person,
not the party. You can vote for anyone of any
party for any office. And then the second change is
(00:49):
that the top four finishers go to the general election,
where you have the option of ranking them, not just
choosing one. And this ensures that whoever wins does so
with majority support through an instant runoff process. The combination
of these reforms mean that no longer will just five
percent of the electorate to determine the outcome of most
(01:09):
races and low turnout primaries but our elections will be
decided in a November election when most voters cast their
ballots and will get leaders who actually represent a majority of.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Us because we have districts in Colorado, both Democrat and Republican,
that are considered so called safe districts, so they are
essentially decided in the primary.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Correct. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
The sad reality is I can go through the list
of all of our legislative seats and with one hundred
percent accuracy for eighty percent of them, tell you who
will win today, a week more than a week out
from when any votes will be tallied. That's because most
of these legislative seats are locked for one party or another,
(01:51):
and the low turnout primary determines the outcomes back in June.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
So in this system, if you did not want to
rank your camp, say you've got candidate ABC and D.
A is your candidate BC and D or communist? You
don't want to vote for those people. If you don't
vote for two, three, and four, what happens to your ballot?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Does it still get counted?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Your ballot absolutely gets counted. And in this scenario that
none of the four candidates get an outright majority of support,
it's the candidate with the least amount of votes that
get eliminated, and then you look to that candidate's second choice,
their supporters second choice vote, and redistribute an until someone
emerges with a majority. So it's to your advantage to
(02:35):
rank more because if it goes into this runoff period
of time, your vote will still be in the running,
but you don't have to.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
So one of the things that I get asked about
a lot, and I'm just going to read this text
message that I just got because this really encapsulates it
personally perfectly.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
One moment.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Please, Mandy, if one thirty one passes, Colorado will be
one party rule within five years, how do you respond
to that?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
It's actually the opposite. This is going to create more
healthy competition between both political parties and may even level
the playing field for candidates to compete from outside the
two major political parties. And that's because we have something
called the spoiler effect in our current system, where those
who want to vote for an independent or a third
party candidate fear that if they do, they'll take away
(03:23):
a vote from their second preferred candidate and wind up
helping to elect their least preferred Under this system, you
actually get to vote your values and your views and
express a fuller preference of your vote.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
That seems to be the biggest concern is that people
say in Denver, they always use Denver as an example.
In Denver, a Republican will never be on the ballot,
to which I respond, is there a chance of Republicans
going to get elected in Denver?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Right now? So let's be real.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I mean, I'm not trying to be flippant, but is
there no, there isn't what I see happening here is this?
If it works, Nick, and God, I want this to work, okay,
because I've really toss this around in my brain, trying
to look at all the potential outcomes, all the potential positives,
all the potential negatives. I believe that if candidates get it,
(04:10):
and if candidates campaign in the right way, meaning they
try to cast a broad net right, they try to
campaign to everyone, this could fundamentally change the way elections
are in this country. Is that the only reason? Look,
why did you guys launch this in the first place?
What are the underlying motives here?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
One motive is to give voters a ballot that truly matters.
You know, I've looked at my ballot today, I got
in the mail. I live in Denver. Most of these races,
virtually all of them have already been decided in the
Democratic primary. So this reform is really about making sure
that when you vote in November, you have more choices
on your ballot, and your ballot actually matters. The second
(04:51):
reason why we're proposing this reform is because it changes
the incentives of candidates and elected leaders, to your point,
to incentivize them to reach out to a roder coalition
of voters to get elected, so that when they're in office,
they're actually trying to represent a true majority of us,
not just pandered to the five percent of the base
of their party that they need to stay in the
(05:11):
good graces with to stay in office. So it's good
for voters and it's good for governance. And that's why
we think this is a pro democracy, nonpartisan reform. You
can tell a lot by an idea, a boy who
opposes it, and both major parties oppose it, Ndor Bennett
Lauren Bobert. What do they have in common? Not much.
They want to protect their own power. This is a
pro voter, pro people reform.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Why shouldn't the two parties continue to decide how we
do our primaries.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Well, we have to disentangle the role that parties play
from the role that our elections should play. Right now,
to use a sort of sports analogy, we have two
teams that are also deciding the rules of the league
and are trying to be the umpires and enforcing those rules.
We have to separate this out so that the parties
are participating in our democracy, but they don't control our
(05:59):
our elections. Our elections belong to voters, and under this system,
a government run, taxpayer funded process, this will give voters
a lot more choice and power in their elections. Parties,
by the way, can still continue their core function. They
can recruit, support and endorse candidates as they do today.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
The last question I have, and then we'll talk about
tonight's event real quick, how could rank choice voting be
manipulated by someone? And this is a common theory that
I hear from listeners that they're worried somebody is going
to run as a conservative and then take away a
bunch of votes from an actual conservative. How do you
see or how could this be manipulated? Have you guys
(06:42):
thought about any of that?
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Well, there's no perfect system, but ranked choice voting in
general elections will reduce a lot of the gamesmanship that
we see today. Republicans sometimes run and support Green Party candidates,
and Democrats do the same with libertarians to peel off
some votes and manage themselves in the general election. That
won't be possible or much less likely under this current system,
(07:05):
because voters can still rank a second preference. Likewise, there's
been plenty of stories about how Democrats have spent millions
of dollars within Republican primaries to support the most extreme
Republican to advantage themselves in general elections. That too, is
greatly mitigated under this new system because four candidates will
get to the general election. So, again, no perfect system,
(07:27):
but this proposal actually reduces a lot of the gamesmanship
that we see today.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
All right, Nick.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Freyano with United America on the show. Right now, I lied,
I have one work because this text just came in.
Another common thing not true. Once your candidate is eliminated,
if you haven't ranked either candidates on your ballot, your
ballot is exhausted and your vote is not counted towards
the final vote tabulation?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Is that accurate?
Speaker 3 (07:51):
That is and That's what I did say earlier, which
is why I think we encourage people to fill out
their full ballot. But you have to compare it again
to the current system. If you vote for saying independent
our third party candidate, you don't have the ability to
put a second choice if that candidate doesn't win and
your current vote is exhausted. So relative to the current system,
(08:12):
this allows people to have a much fuller and much
more powerful say and who represents them.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Let me make sure that I am clear on this.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
So your first initial vote doesn't count towards the tabulation
if you don't rank the other candidates.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
No, No, your first choice absolutely does.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So your vote count, you just don't. You don't weigh
in on anything else. If you choose not to correct.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
If that race goes to a runoff, and if you
choose not to rank any of the candidates that are
in that runoff, then of course your other preferences don't count.
It's almost like you're voting here in Denver and the
mayor's race, and the race goes to a runoff. If
you don't show up the second time, your vote doesn't count.
So we would encourage you to do that under this system.
The only difference is instead of asking you to come
(08:57):
back to the polls again, we allow you to to
rank your backup preferences at that time.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Nick Treyona is my guest. Nick, we're almost out a time.
Let's talk about what's happening tonight at you.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Yeah, so we're squaring off against some opponents of Prop.
Thirty one. We're looking forward to a good conversation and
debate about this topic. And I think the biggest difference
between proponents and opponents of the system is how much
we trust voters. Do we trust them with more power
in our system? Do we trust them that they are
capable of ranking candidates one, two, three on their ballot?
(09:30):
Proponents say yes, and that this is going to be
good for voters and good for the state of Colorado. Uh.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Nick TREONO, I appreciate what you guys are doing. I
am a solid yes on Prop one thirty one, and
I'm trying to encourage others to do the same. What
we've got now For the person who said we'll have
one party rule in five years, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Look around. That's what we have now in Colorado.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
And the incompetence of the Republican Party is not going
to change that anytime soon.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Nick, I hope the debate goes well tonight.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And hopefully we'll talk after this passes about what it's
look like. Since the Democratic and Republican legislature decided to
ban this before the voters even had a chance to
vote on it, we'll talk about that later.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Thanks, Mandy.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
That's Nick Torewna with Unite America.
Nick Troyano with Unit America is going to be at
a debate tonight at DU I believe I looked earlier
and there was still some tickets left. Nick Troyano, who's
joining me now? But I've got information about it on
the blog today, Nick, can we do a rapid speed
round of question and answer about Prop one thirty one?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Happy to Mandy first of all, tell my listeners briefly
what it does.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
This makes two changes to our elections that will give
voters a lot more choice and power in their elections.
The first is in the primary instead of you're an
independent choosing between a Democratic or Republican primary, and everybody
gets one ballot, and you can vote for the person,
not the party. You can vote for anyone of any
party for any office. And then the second change is
(00:49):
that the top four finishers go to the general election,
where you have the option of ranking them, not just
choosing one. And this ensures that whoever wins does so
with majority support through an instant runoff process. The combination
of these reforms mean that no longer will just five
percent of the electorate to determine the outcome of most
(01:09):
races and low turnout primaries but our elections will be
decided in a November election when most voters cast their
ballots and will get leaders who actually represent a majority of.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Us because we have districts in Colorado, both Democrat and Republican,
that are considered so called safe districts, so they are
essentially decided in the primary.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Correct. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
The sad reality is I can go through the list
of all of our legislative seats and with one hundred
percent accuracy for eighty percent of them, tell you who
will win today, a week more than a week out
from when any votes will be tallied. That's because most
of these legislative seats are locked for one party or another,
(01:51):
and the low turnout primary determines the outcomes back in June.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
So in this system, if you did not want to
rank your camp, say you've got candidate ABC and D.
A is your candidate BC and D or communist? You
don't want to vote for those people. If you don't
vote for two, three, and four, what happens to your ballot?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Does it still get counted?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Your ballot absolutely gets counted. And in this scenario that
none of the four candidates get an outright majority of support,
it's the candidate with the least amount of votes that
get eliminated, and then you look to that candidate's second choice,
their supporters second choice vote, and redistribute an until someone
emerges with a majority. So it's to your advantage to
(02:35):
rank more because if it goes into this runoff period
of time, your vote will still be in the running,
but you don't have to.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
So one of the things that I get asked about
a lot, and I'm just going to read this text
message that I just got because this really encapsulates it
personally perfectly.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
One moment.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Please, Mandy, if one thirty one passes, Colorado will be
one party rule within five years, how do you respond
to that?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
It's actually the opposite. This is going to create more
healthy competition between both political parties and may even level
the playing field for candidates to compete from outside the
two major political parties. And that's because we have something
called the spoiler effect in our current system, where those
who want to vote for an independent or a third
party candidate fear that if they do, they'll take away
(03:23):
a vote from their second preferred candidate and wind up
helping to elect their least preferred Under this system, you
actually get to vote your values and your views and
express a fuller preference of your vote.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
That seems to be the biggest concern is that people
say in Denver, they always use Denver as an example.
In Denver, a Republican will never be on the ballot,
to which I respond, is there a chance of Republicans
going to get elected in Denver?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Right now? So let's be real.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I mean, I'm not trying to be flippant, but is
there no, there isn't what I see happening here is this?
If it works, Nick, and God, I want this to work, okay,
because I've really toss this around in my brain, trying
to look at all the potential outcomes, all the potential positives,
all the potential negatives. I believe that if candidates get it,
(04:10):
and if candidates campaign in the right way, meaning they
try to cast a broad net right, they try to
campaign to everyone, this could fundamentally change the way elections
are in this country. Is that the only reason? Look,
why did you guys launch this in the first place?
What are the underlying motives here?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
One motive is to give voters a ballot that truly matters.
You know, I've looked at my ballot today, I got
in the mail. I live in Denver. Most of these races,
virtually all of them have already been decided in the
Democratic primary. So this reform is really about making sure
that when you vote in November, you have more choices
on your ballot, and your ballot actually matters. The second
(04:51):
reason why we're proposing this reform is because it changes
the incentives of candidates and elected leaders, to your point,
to incentivize them to reach out to a roder coalition
of voters to get elected, so that when they're in office,
they're actually trying to represent a true majority of us,
not just pandered to the five percent of the base
of their party that they need to stay in the
(05:11):
good graces with to stay in office. So it's good
for voters and it's good for governance. And that's why
we think this is a pro democracy, nonpartisan reform. You
can tell a lot by an idea, a boy who
opposes it, and both major parties oppose it, Ndor Bennett
Lauren Bobert. What do they have in common? Not much.
They want to protect their own power. This is a
pro voter, pro people reform.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Why shouldn't the two parties continue to decide how we
do our primaries.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Well, we have to disentangle the role that parties play
from the role that our elections should play. Right now,
to use a sort of sports analogy, we have two
teams that are also deciding the rules of the league
and are trying to be the umpires and enforcing those rules.
We have to separate this out so that the parties
are participating in our democracy, but they don't control our
(05:59):
our elections. Our elections belong to voters, and under this system,
a government run, taxpayer funded process, this will give voters
a lot more choice and power in their elections. Parties,
by the way, can still continue their core function. They
can recruit, support and endorse candidates as they do today.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
The last question I have, and then we'll talk about
tonight's event real quick, how could rank choice voting be
manipulated by someone? And this is a common theory that
I hear from listeners that they're worried somebody is going
to run as a conservative and then take away a
bunch of votes from an actual conservative. How do you
see or how could this be manipulated? Have you guys
(06:42):
thought about any of that?
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Well, there's no perfect system, but ranked choice voting in
general elections will reduce a lot of the gamesmanship that
we see today. Republicans sometimes run and support Green Party candidates,
and Democrats do the same with libertarians to peel off
some votes and manage themselves in the general election. That
won't be possible or much less likely under this current system,
(07:05):
because voters can still rank a second preference. Likewise, there's
been plenty of stories about how Democrats have spent millions
of dollars within Republican primaries to support the most extreme
Republican to advantage themselves in general elections. That too, is
greatly mitigated under this new system because four candidates will
get to the general election. So, again, no perfect system,
(07:27):
but this proposal actually reduces a lot of the gamesmanship
that we see today.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
All right, Nick.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Freyano with United America on the show. Right now, I lied,
I have one work because this text just came in.
Another common thing not true. Once your candidate is eliminated,
if you haven't ranked either candidates on your ballot, your
ballot is exhausted and your vote is not counted towards
the final vote tabulation?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Is that accurate?
Speaker 3 (07:51):
That is and That's what I did say earlier, which
is why I think we encourage people to fill out
their full ballot. But you have to compare it again
to the current system. If you vote for saying independent
our third party candidate, you don't have the ability to
put a second choice if that candidate doesn't win and
your current vote is exhausted. So relative to the current system,
(08:12):
this allows people to have a much fuller and much
more powerful say and who represents them.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Let me make sure that I am clear on this.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
So your first initial vote doesn't count towards the tabulation
if you don't rank the other candidates.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
No, No, your first choice absolutely does.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So your vote count, you just don't. You don't weigh
in on anything else. If you choose not to correct.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
If that race goes to a runoff, and if you
choose not to rank any of the candidates that are
in that runoff, then of course your other preferences don't count.
It's almost like you're voting here in Denver and the
mayor's race, and the race goes to a runoff. If
you don't show up the second time, your vote doesn't count.
So we would encourage you to do that under this system.
The only difference is instead of asking you to come
(08:57):
back to the polls again, we allow you to to
rank your backup preferences at that time.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Nick Treyona is my guest. Nick, we're almost out a time.
Let's talk about what's happening tonight at you.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Yeah, so we're squaring off against some opponents of Prop.
Thirty one. We're looking forward to a good conversation and
debate about this topic. And I think the biggest difference
between proponents and opponents of the system is how much
we trust voters. Do we trust them with more power
in our system? Do we trust them that they are
capable of ranking candidates one, two, three on their ballot?
(09:30):
Proponents say yes, and that this is going to be
good for voters and good for the state of Colorado. Uh.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Nick TREONO, I appreciate what you guys are doing. I
am a solid yes on Prop one thirty one, and
I'm trying to encourage others to do the same. What
we've got now For the person who said we'll have
one party rule in five years, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Look around. That's what we have now in Colorado.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
And the incompetence of the Republican Party is not going
to change that anytime soon.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Nick, I hope the debate goes well tonight.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And hopefully we'll talk after this passes about what it's
look like. Since the Democratic and Republican legislature decided to
ban this before the voters even had a chance to
vote on it, we'll talk about that later.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Thanks, Mandy.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
That's Nick Torewna with Unite America.
The Mandy Connell Podcast News
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