December 17, 2024 • 11 mins
WHAT'S THE DEAL WITH HIGH CONCENTRATE THC? That is the question the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment is hoping to answer with a new campaign designed to educate the masses about the high concentrate THC we have today. I'm talking with researchers Greg Tung and Annie Collier about the research behind this new campaign at 1:30. Find out more by clicking here.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
They are associate professors at the School of Public Health
working with the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment
on their new campaign called the t on THCHC about
the marijuana that is being sold and consumed in Colorado,
how it differs from the marijuana back in the nineteen seventies,
and the health effects going forward. I'd like to welcome
(00:20):
to the show, Annie Collier and Gregory Tungu. Welcome to
the show.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
First of all, guys, thanks, yeah, thanks, thanks for having us.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I want to start with you Annie, because you were
sort of you were sort of working on this entire campaign.
When you're trying to come up with a campaign to
educate or engage the public, how do you even begin
that process and how did you guys sort of create
this campaign to get the word out about the THCHC
concentrations we're seeing now.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Well, greg can talk to us about to everybody about
the research that was done, but it's really research based.
So a great deal of time was spent to determine
and what the literature says about high concentration cannabis and
to try to understand well, then we'd want to direct
that to people, But we really are taking an informative approach,
that is, try and educate people on what is known,
(01:14):
as well as use narratives so that it has personal
experiences combined with really simple, clear direct messages about it
so people can get informed.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Gregori, let me ask you about some of that research, because,
and I keep joking, like the Mexican ditch weed people
got in the nineteen seventies is so far away from
what we actually have now in Colorado. What is some
of the research behind this and these super high concentrations
of THHC.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, so, I think you've hit the nail right on
the head here.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
And the real underlying issue that we're dealing with is
that we're not dealing with the weed from the seventies
the sixties. This is not your grandmother's weed. It's not
even your mom's weed. And if you're old enough to
what weed and what is available in the cannabis marketplace
is just fundamentally different now than what it's been in
(02:08):
the past, even the recent past. And one of the
big differences is the concentration levels of THHC or the
psychoactive ingredient are many times what they used to be.
I mean when I was in college in the nineties,
you know THHC percentages and the single digits for flour.
Now in the Colorado marketplace, we're averaging twenty percent there are,
(02:31):
And that means half of what's out there is above
And we've got strains out there pushing thirty and we've
got an entire product class just innovation in terms of products,
concentrated products that can have THHC levels of ninety percent.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Wow. So that's really the motivation for this.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Yeah, that's really the motivation for this entire project, in
this entire campaign. And I'll try to speak really plainly
about this and to spill one of the big myths
that are out there. You hear this phrase where people
are dismissive sometimes about weed, marijuana, cannabis.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
But I think we take use those.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Do that that it's just weed? Yeah, right, And and
and I think in that statement is that it's harmless,
there's no consequences, and that is just not true. There,
weed or marijuana or cannabis is a really complicated product.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Are there medicinal uses yes? Are there legitimate recreational uses uses?
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Well, the citizens of Colorado, I've said yes, are their
real harms?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Absolutely? And as the.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Concentration level of cannabis products in the current marketplace has
gone up, those harms are more likely. The harms have
have also increased. And this that's really the underlying motivation
for this entire project and for this entire campaign.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Anny, you work on the mental health aspect of this,
and one of my big concerns, even though I am
a small l libertarian progation, I think adults should be
able to make their own choices and live with those consequences.
What worries me is where we are with kids and
getting marijuana that is not just weed, as Gregor Reis said,
but they're getting high powered concentrations of THHC. What does
(04:17):
that impact on the developing brain and the mental health
of kids in Colorado.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah, and that is actually a really good point that
we are focusing the campaign on people under twenty five
years of age and parenting and pregnant people because of.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
The impact on the developing fetus.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
So there are a lot of risks associated with youth
using it.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
The earlier they use it, the more potential damage there is.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
We see a longer period of time that they use
it for it interferes with brain development and functioning. It
can increase the risks of different types of mental illness,
particularly what we call psychosis, schizophrenia, and disorders of thinking,
having lucinations, beliefs that aren't true about reality. That does
(05:03):
not happen in everybody, but it happens. That's actually a
really big risk factor for you. So sometimes it can
trigger underlying problems that may be there that you haven't
even seen yet. It can exacerbate problems if you've already
got mental health issues, and it can lead to.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
New things that might not have even been triggered.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I have a family member who started smoking marijuana at
a young age and ended up having a psychotic break
at nineteen and was diagnosed with schizophrenia. And so when
I tell people that story, people say, oh, that's not everybody.
It's not everybody. But you don't get to know if
it's you until it's too late, right, I mean, there's
no marker that you're going to be the person.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Gregory, how much.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Research is going in right now? What is being studied
right now? Because we legalize marijuana without a lot of
good science behind it, So what are we actually researching now?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Yeah, so a tremendous amount of research that's happening right
now to try to fully understand both the therapeutic and
clinical and beneficial applications as well as the potential harms
that are out there. But I'm going to just be
really frank with you when you look at how fast
our marketplace has moved, how much product innovation has been happening,
(06:21):
just the truth of the matter is that the research
is really behind and that we need more research. There's
lots of reasons for us to talk about that. There's
the complicated dynamic between legal status at the state level
and cannabis not being legal at the federal level. Also,
it's Schedule one designation, which is really restricted federal money
for research. The bottom line there is, even though there
(06:45):
is a lot of research happening, we're still really playing
catch up and the market is moving so quickly.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
That being said, the.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Research that's out there, and a big part of our
project is looking at what the research says on.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
This particular topic. Even though there's more research that needs
to be done, there are clear.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Conclusions that we can draw from the research that's out there.
And maybe this dovetails right into the focus of the
campaign which Annie really talked about.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I think one of the areas.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
And one of the populations of greatest concern is youth
and young adults and of course pregnant individuals. Anytime you
have a situation where you know, frankly somebody's brain is
still developing, there's critical ongoing development. And the research that's
available now, even though there's more that needs to happen
for us to better understand exactly what the effects are,
they clearly point to harmful effects. And one of the
(07:38):
areas which Annie highlighted, one of the outcome domains that
has the most amount of research is mental health outcomes.
And as Annie already mentioned, psychotic disorders and psychosis is
just is one of those areas where we're seeing right now,
even though there's more research that needs to be conducted,
that's a problematic area.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
What are some of the other harms that you guys
are seeing. Somebody's on our text said, so what are
the harms? You keep saying harms? But what other than
the psychosis issue, because not everybody is going to have
a psychosis issue, But what are some of the other
specific connections that are being made.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Yes, so, our assessment of the literature, which is the
foundation for this entire project looked at a broad range
of outcomes, So mental health outcomes we're talking about maybe
related it to that substance, the issues of substance use
and addiction, absent actually having psychotic disorders, the issues with
(08:33):
substance use and dependence, and how that interferes with people's lives,
that extends to educational attainment, professional performance. All of those
things are maybe generally in that same type of category.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
I want to.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Be balanced about this and be honest with your audience,
and that our review. While I believe our entire project
and this collaboration between the state legislature and the Colorado
School of Public Health was really motivated by the harms
and better understanding, that we wanted to be balanced, and
so in our review of the literature, we've also looked
at what our beneficial applications. And this is one of
(09:12):
the things that makes cannabis so tricky is that are
there legitimate.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Beneficial uses of cannabis? Yes?
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Right, I think there are really compelling and interesting examples.
And maybe just to hit right on this controversial issue
of kids using there are clear examples of kids with
epileptic disorders right using cannabis base or CBD based types
of medications where it is transformative.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
It's really incredible. In our review of the literature. Pain
management is another area where where there's really benefits.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
At the same time there are these harms, and so
it's this question of how do we balance that, how
do we put forward the rules and the regulations and
then communicate all of this to the public so that
people can make informed and healthy choices.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Because we're out of time, but the website is t
on THHC dot org. I put a link to it
on the blog. If you're a parent who wants to
have a conversation with your kids but you don't really
know how to get started, I think you guys, to
your credit, you did a really good job with that
balance that you were just talking about Gregory. So it's
not all Rea for madness. You're gonna die if you
smoke one joint, which clearly did not work back then.
(10:26):
But I think this is a really, really good start
to have a conversation about the pros and cons and
about why maybe it's better if you're going to do this,
to wait until your brain is fully developed. I think
this is a great, great campaign. I hope that parents
and everyone really takes it seriously because though again I
am pro legalization because I'm a small L libertarian, I
(10:50):
do want people to always be able to make an
informed decision, and I feel like we haven't really had
a lot of good, solid information for people to make
those decisions based on. So this feels like we're moving
in that direction, and for that, I'm very appreciative any
caller and Gregory Tongue, thank you so much for your
time today.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Thank you for having us appreciate it.
They are associate professors at the School of Public Health
working with the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment
on their new campaign called the t on THCHC about
the marijuana that is being sold and consumed in Colorado,
how it differs from the marijuana back in the nineteen seventies,
and the health effects going forward. I'd like to welcome
(00:20):
to the show, Annie Collier and Gregory Tungu. Welcome to
the show.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
First of all, guys, thanks, yeah, thanks, thanks for having us.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I want to start with you Annie, because you were
sort of you were sort of working on this entire campaign.
When you're trying to come up with a campaign to
educate or engage the public, how do you even begin
that process and how did you guys sort of create
this campaign to get the word out about the THCHC
concentrations we're seeing now.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Well, greg can talk to us about to everybody about
the research that was done, but it's really research based.
So a great deal of time was spent to determine
and what the literature says about high concentration cannabis and
to try to understand well, then we'd want to direct
that to people, But we really are taking an informative approach,
that is, try and educate people on what is known,
(01:14):
as well as use narratives so that it has personal
experiences combined with really simple, clear direct messages about it
so people can get informed.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Gregori, let me ask you about some of that research, because,
and I keep joking, like the Mexican ditch weed people
got in the nineteen seventies is so far away from
what we actually have now in Colorado. What is some
of the research behind this and these super high concentrations
of THHC.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, so, I think you've hit the nail right on
the head here.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
And the real underlying issue that we're dealing with is
that we're not dealing with the weed from the seventies
the sixties. This is not your grandmother's weed. It's not
even your mom's weed. And if you're old enough to
what weed and what is available in the cannabis marketplace
is just fundamentally different now than what it's been in
(02:08):
the past, even the recent past. And one of the
big differences is the concentration levels of THHC or the
psychoactive ingredient are many times what they used to be.
I mean when I was in college in the nineties,
you know THHC percentages and the single digits for flour.
Now in the Colorado marketplace, we're averaging twenty percent there are,
(02:31):
And that means half of what's out there is above
And we've got strains out there pushing thirty and we've
got an entire product class just innovation in terms of products,
concentrated products that can have THHC levels of ninety percent.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Wow. So that's really the motivation for this.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Yeah, that's really the motivation for this entire project, in
this entire campaign. And I'll try to speak really plainly
about this and to spill one of the big myths
that are out there. You hear this phrase where people
are dismissive sometimes about weed, marijuana, cannabis.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
But I think we take use those.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Do that that it's just weed? Yeah, right, And and
and I think in that statement is that it's harmless,
there's no consequences, and that is just not true. There,
weed or marijuana or cannabis is a really complicated product.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Are there medicinal uses yes? Are there legitimate recreational uses uses?
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Well, the citizens of Colorado, I've said yes, are their
real harms?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Absolutely? And as the.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Concentration level of cannabis products in the current marketplace has
gone up, those harms are more likely. The harms have
have also increased. And this that's really the underlying motivation
for this entire project and for this entire campaign.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Anny, you work on the mental health aspect of this,
and one of my big concerns, even though I am
a small l libertarian progation, I think adults should be
able to make their own choices and live with those consequences.
What worries me is where we are with kids and
getting marijuana that is not just weed, as Gregor Reis said,
but they're getting high powered concentrations of THHC. What does
(04:17):
that impact on the developing brain and the mental health
of kids in Colorado.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah, and that is actually a really good point that
we are focusing the campaign on people under twenty five
years of age and parenting and pregnant people because of.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
The impact on the developing fetus.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
So there are a lot of risks associated with youth
using it.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
The earlier they use it, the more potential damage there is.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
We see a longer period of time that they use
it for it interferes with brain development and functioning. It
can increase the risks of different types of mental illness,
particularly what we call psychosis, schizophrenia, and disorders of thinking,
having lucinations, beliefs that aren't true about reality. That does
(05:03):
not happen in everybody, but it happens. That's actually a
really big risk factor for you. So sometimes it can
trigger underlying problems that may be there that you haven't
even seen yet. It can exacerbate problems if you've already
got mental health issues, and it can lead to.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
New things that might not have even been triggered.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I have a family member who started smoking marijuana at
a young age and ended up having a psychotic break
at nineteen and was diagnosed with schizophrenia. And so when
I tell people that story, people say, oh, that's not everybody.
It's not everybody. But you don't get to know if
it's you until it's too late, right, I mean, there's
no marker that you're going to be the person.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Gregory, how much.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Research is going in right now? What is being studied
right now? Because we legalize marijuana without a lot of
good science behind it, So what are we actually researching now?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Yeah, so a tremendous amount of research that's happening right
now to try to fully understand both the therapeutic and
clinical and beneficial applications as well as the potential harms
that are out there. But I'm going to just be
really frank with you when you look at how fast
our marketplace has moved, how much product innovation has been happening,
(06:21):
just the truth of the matter is that the research
is really behind and that we need more research. There's
lots of reasons for us to talk about that. There's
the complicated dynamic between legal status at the state level
and cannabis not being legal at the federal level. Also,
it's Schedule one designation, which is really restricted federal money
for research. The bottom line there is, even though there
(06:45):
is a lot of research happening, we're still really playing
catch up and the market is moving so quickly.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
That being said, the.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Research that's out there, and a big part of our
project is looking at what the research says on.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
This particular topic. Even though there's more research that needs
to be done, there are clear.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Conclusions that we can draw from the research that's out there.
And maybe this dovetails right into the focus of the
campaign which Annie really talked about.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I think one of the areas.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
And one of the populations of greatest concern is youth
and young adults and of course pregnant individuals. Anytime you
have a situation where you know, frankly somebody's brain is
still developing, there's critical ongoing development. And the research that's
available now, even though there's more that needs to happen
for us to better understand exactly what the effects are,
they clearly point to harmful effects. And one of the
(07:38):
areas which Annie highlighted, one of the outcome domains that
has the most amount of research is mental health outcomes.
And as Annie already mentioned, psychotic disorders and psychosis is
just is one of those areas where we're seeing right now,
even though there's more research that needs to be conducted,
that's a problematic area.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
What are some of the other harms that you guys
are seeing. Somebody's on our text said, so what are
the harms? You keep saying harms? But what other than
the psychosis issue, because not everybody is going to have
a psychosis issue, But what are some of the other
specific connections that are being made.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Yes, so, our assessment of the literature, which is the
foundation for this entire project looked at a broad range
of outcomes, So mental health outcomes we're talking about maybe
related it to that substance, the issues of substance use
and addiction, absent actually having psychotic disorders, the issues with
(08:33):
substance use and dependence, and how that interferes with people's lives,
that extends to educational attainment, professional performance. All of those
things are maybe generally in that same type of category.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
I want to.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Be balanced about this and be honest with your audience,
and that our review. While I believe our entire project
and this collaboration between the state legislature and the Colorado
School of Public Health was really motivated by the harms
and better understanding, that we wanted to be balanced, and
so in our review of the literature, we've also looked
at what our beneficial applications. And this is one of
(09:12):
the things that makes cannabis so tricky is that are
there legitimate.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Beneficial uses of cannabis? Yes?
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Right, I think there are really compelling and interesting examples.
And maybe just to hit right on this controversial issue
of kids using there are clear examples of kids with
epileptic disorders right using cannabis base or CBD based types
of medications where it is transformative.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
It's really incredible. In our review of the literature. Pain
management is another area where where there's really benefits.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
At the same time there are these harms, and so
it's this question of how do we balance that, how
do we put forward the rules and the regulations and
then communicate all of this to the public so that
people can make informed and healthy choices.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Because we're out of time, but the website is t
on THHC dot org. I put a link to it
on the blog. If you're a parent who wants to
have a conversation with your kids but you don't really
know how to get started, I think you guys, to
your credit, you did a really good job with that
balance that you were just talking about Gregory. So it's
not all Rea for madness. You're gonna die if you
smoke one joint, which clearly did not work back then.
(10:26):
But I think this is a really, really good start
to have a conversation about the pros and cons and
about why maybe it's better if you're going to do this,
to wait until your brain is fully developed. I think
this is a great, great campaign. I hope that parents
and everyone really takes it seriously because though again I
am pro legalization because I'm a small L libertarian, I
(10:50):
do want people to always be able to make an
informed decision, and I feel like we haven't really had
a lot of good, solid information for people to make
those decisions based on. So this feels like we're moving
in that direction, and for that, I'm very appreciative any
caller and Gregory Tongue, thank you so much for your
time today.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Thank you for having us appreciate it.
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