November 25, 2021 • 55 mins
"JumpStart" comic creator, Robb Armstrong, discusses the impact of the Black "Peanuts" character Franklin with Roy Wood Jr. and The Daily Show writer Josh Johnson.
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to learn more Built Forward Proud. Hey, welcome to Beyond
the Scenes. This is the podcast where we dig a
little deeper into segments that have already aired on The
Daily Show with Trevor Noah, Like, you've already got the segment,
but now figet to get you a little extra gravy,
(01:51):
just a little little extra on the side, right, It's right.
It's like when you watch a Marvel movie and then
Samuel L. Jackson appeared to end, and you get a
little extra movie after the credit. That's what we are,
were the after beyond the credit scenes of The Daily Show. Um,
I'm Roy Wood Jr. Today we're going to be talking
about a piece that aired in a piece that celebrated
(02:14):
the fiftieth anniversary of the introduction of Franklin, the first
black character ever in the Peanuts comic strip. Let's give
him a little sample newspaper. Franklin was great. You can't
argue that, but when they put him on TV, it
was a different story. All of a sudden, they made
a mystereotype. That's why. Why couldn't Franklin just do the
(03:03):
hokey pokey shop right? Anyway? Like, I hear what you're saying,
but I like, I liked having Franklin on the screen,
and I think it's important for kids to be able
to see a version of themselves. Okay, cool, So if
that's the case, the cartoon should honor the original revolutionary
spirit of Franklin. If you're gonna make him rap, do
it right with me today to discuss this piece, this
(03:33):
segment it's inception. Uh. Two guests. First, one is an
Emmy nominated writer and a stand up comedian writer for
The Daily Show. I guess I should add that too,
since we're going beyond the scenes. Josh Johnson, how are
you doing today, sir? I'm doing well. You know I
can't complain as your side hustle of delivering soothing voicemails
(03:55):
to strangers for a dollar a pop. That's a nice
microphone you got over the thanks. I've made one dollar
other guests. The voice you just heard is that of
cartoonists and creator of the jump Start comic strip, and
he has a book coming out. We're gonna talk about
that a little later in the pot. Rob Armstrong, welcome
to be on the scenes. Thanks for having me. This
(04:17):
is very exciting man. Now, Rob, I want to start
with you and let's I'm gonna just take you back
to a little young Roy Wood Jr. I didn't see
a lot of representation, as the old people call it,
the funny pages. You know, I read, you know, comic
strips going up. You know, I was a Garfield guy.
I was a Calvin and Hobbes. I pretty much own
(04:39):
most everything that Bill Waterson put out. And then for
a quick minute I was reading The Phantom. Then my
mom saw and didn't like it. Until then she started
like literally cut out certain comic strips that wasn't allowed
to read. Like a lot of kids, I did read Peanuts.
Although I will say, just as an a side in
terms of black characters, I appreciate yet a Heathcliff over
(05:01):
Garfield because Heathcliff for sure was even if he weren't
a black cat, he was for sure thug. He was
out there whipping ass and fighting dogs everything. Yeah, he
Cliff was. Heathcliff was um. He was a hard scrapping
cat man, don't he was? Like he beat Heathcliff with
beat Garfield's ass. Al Right, So, as a cartoon as
(05:24):
I know that you are very familiar with the history
of your craft, can you run us through the history
of how Franklin was introduced in the Peanuts strip? Yeah? Man, Well,
first of all, I want to just say that a
lot of press has been given to Franklin and and
to show obviously because of Franklin. But Moriy turn I
don't know if you guys got We Pals and your
local paper growing up. No, what's that? We Pals is
(05:47):
the first syndicated comic strip by a black person in
the country, and it was launched in nineteen six five.
The guy who um created We Pals, his name was
Morey Turner is stripped. We wasn't as widely syndicated. He
was in hundreds of newspapers, but Shouts and Peanuts was
in thousands of newspapers. They were both in my Philadelphia
(06:09):
bulletin as a child, and both had enormous impact on me.
In ninet, Mori was in the game for three years.
He was in This is not meant to be fund
that he was in ten newspapers in the whole country,
seventeen somewhere around there, like compared to peanuts none existent.
(06:31):
When the cities were smoldering. After Dr King's assassination, Maury
was in hot demand. Suddenly he was in fifty newspapers,
seventy five. His phone wouldn't stop bringing hundred newspapers, two
hundred newspapers. It was the year to changed his life,
and he always felt weird that Dr King had to
(06:51):
die for that to happen. You guys, I feel the
exact same way because of George Floyd, Like, suddenly a
lot of things is including this podcast, happened after George Floyd.
Although this isn't directly like your people literally calling me
after the verdict. Um the newspaper in Minneapolis at a
jump start after the verdict said buddy, what's up with
(07:12):
that jump start thing? As an ally, we sure we
love to We'll make it look well, we'll move Marmaduke
over a couple of thirty two years in the game.
That's exactly what happened. I felt it was surreal. I've
been around for a long time. So Franklin that same
year and was introduced into the Peanuts cast. On July one,
(07:38):
right after King got assassinated. Um, a letter shows up
and Shall shows his office from this this woman, a
Jewish woman named Harriett Glickman. It was around like mid
April or so. Of course, King died on the fourth
and he gets this letter saying, you have this huge platform.
You can do something about this. Because you have the
voice and the platform that people pay attention to, you
(08:00):
should add a black character. And he ignored it. You know,
we just kindly said, uh, I don't think that would
be a good idea, But she kept pressing. She sent
them another letter, and then she sent them another letter.
There were a few letters in before he came out
and said, if I did something like that, it might
come off as condescending. But by then she had told
(08:24):
so many of her black friends. I met Harry. She
died not long ago, like Harry, so fearless this she's
so she had contacted so many black people and she's
a little Jewish lady. It was so funny. I'm mad.
I said, oh my gosh, I thought you were black. Um,
(08:44):
she got other people to say the same thing. So
when he listened to these people, you know, Frankly just
appeared like out of nowhere. So he just did it,
and the syndicate said, uh, yeah, we're not running these show.
So was my friend, and I called him sparky. So
if you hear me calling this guy sparky, forgive me.
(09:04):
I'm being very familiar. Sparky said, um, okay, well I
quit whenever I hear people stay. Um I saw that Thanksgiving.
Uh bs, man, he must have been a racist, not that. Hey,
he's my friend. I happen to know he's not a racist.
But there aren't many people black or white they are
willing to throw away a seventh figure career like that.
(09:31):
He said, really not running out the wounds, Franklin, I'm done,
And they said, oh, we didn't mean that. That's you know,
we want to run him and uh he hey, man,
he did what Sinatra did for Sammy, like, oh, he
can't come in here. Yeah, he can't come in here
and play with us, he can't come in front door.
Wein performing. Sinatra was crazy. O g like, really, we're
(09:51):
out of here. Cobanon was like, wait, we didn't mean
just just one one is alright, that's not too bad. Yeah,
that's a spot on. We almost messed up the money impression,
Like wait that that quick? So Josh, when we talk
about inclusion and representation, you know, that's always the conversation today.
(10:15):
We need black characters on TV and we need to
say more black faces on the TV. As you all
were putting this piece together, how difficult was it to
try and maintain the balance of sprinkling in this awareness
that this character really did change the face of representation
for black youth, while also find a couple of jokes
(10:36):
in there along the way. I feel like anytime something
is um insane in a bad way, anytime something is
like unacceptable in a bad way, there is something funny
about that, you know what I mean. So it's like
the same way that it's crazy that took so long
for there to be a black character and it just
to be normal, It's like that is also funny. It's
(10:59):
funny because wild, you know. And so I think that
that's where the jokes come from, because on one hand,
you're like, wow, this is this is we're a little late.
If if you if you think about how long we
all have been around each other, and our kids have
been playing together everything like that, we're a little late.
But then also I think that you you wanna just
(11:19):
kind of, like you said, convey that this is a
big deal. So I know it's not I know it's
not a big deal. Now we've got like half of
HBO is black now, and like you know, all these
all these shows are just like, so there's there's so
black that like you have cousins now who are on
the show and you're like, you don't even act. It's like, yeah,
but they needed somebody. So yeah, like there's there's that much.
(11:41):
But you have to take it back a few decades
to where it's like there was nothing. And even some
of the representation we see now, whether it's Asian or black,
it's like it's an overwhelming amount happening quickly recently. It's
not as if this is just the world we've always
lived in. So I think that those are the main
mindset you have to keep in mind when you write
for pieces like this, where you have to put it
(12:05):
in context to the time, and you also have to
acknowledge that, yeah, this is this is like a wild thing.
It is it is as messed up as it is
it is funny that the world could be that messed up.
So Rob to your point earlier about Mr Schultz having
complete autonomy over the creative of his comic strip and
choosing to put a black character in this comic strip,
(12:27):
I would imagine that he didn't have like, there was
no diversity and inclusion board to run your black characters by.
There was no correct me if I'm wrong, But I
don't imagine that comic books have the same focus group
type level of detail before something is released to the public,
the way a television show, the way a movie is.
(12:47):
What do you think Schultz got right? And where do
you think some places where the representation could have been
I don't want to say a little bit better, but
it was a step in the right direction. But what
what else do you wish that you could have seen
from the first black comic strip character? Or was Franklin's
presence enough for you to get the ball rolling? Roy?
(13:08):
I saw what you guys did to my boy Franklin
on his fiftieth he was of all the clips are Franklin?
We found the one when he's sitting on the on
the thanks if the Thanksgiving So I just don't want
him to be the other kid all the time, even
that Thanksgiving. Yeah they invited him, but look what they
(13:30):
ain't fluttering the ti himself, even the dog just to
sit with the kids, which the dogs even at the
damn table. It's cool though, Franklin, Franklin. Look man, Franklin,
they did you a favor. You don't want none of
that blandass white people turkey anyway, they ain't putting those
Frankles on there. You know, they don't season the food
(13:50):
right if y'all have Thanksgiving in Africa. I had them breakdancing.
I never even saw that breakdancing. I don't know where.
I'm like, where did they like? What kind of research team? Fine?
Oh they go beyond. It was every time with this kid.
Anytime you walk down the street in peanuts Ville, you
might run into Franklin. And when his homeboy pop walking,
(14:12):
and even when he's hanging out with his friends, everyone
else gets a normal handshake with No, not Franklin. He
gotta slap skin. See what I mean. All the other
peanuts are just kids, But Franklin's run around peanut Ville
like a damn baby shaft. He's a tiny bad mother.
Your mother I'm talking about Franklin. Okay, so's different. We're talking.
(14:36):
Just take us back to see different. It's very different. Spark.
He had very little to do with TV. He actually
trusted two men, Bill Melindez and Lee Mendels. Those two
men are responsible for his television success, all those those
Christmas specials and all that great pumpkins. Great, but the
introduction was tenuous because the world was so tense, you guys,
(15:00):
it was just a crazy time. I'm a little older
than almost everybody I meet nowadays, and nineteen sixty eight
in America was just awful. In the same year that
Dr King was assassinated. He he got murdered in in April.
(15:21):
In July July one, My brother Billy, who was a
wild boy. My brother was seven years older than I
and he he was just a wild kid. My mom
had a single mom, and she had a hard time
with Billy anyway. He uh, he went out, it was
horsing around with his friends. We lived right near the subway,
(15:41):
was elevated above the street like in Chicago, and we
just here rumbling all day and night. My mom hated it.
She was kind of forced to live, and we lived
and didn't have any way of getting out of that situation.
And she was haunted by the subway, the sound of it,
and she feared Billy would be killed on it one
day because him and his friends were so these guys
(16:01):
they could jump the turnstyle get through those doors before
the guy had a chance. Anyway, she sent them downtown
and said, listening, I don't want you horsing around. I
do you need to pay sneakers. Here's money for the sneakers,
his money for your car fare. We call it the
car fair to get on the subway. Don't jump on it.
Don't play around. Serious, he says, okay, Mom, I won't.
(16:24):
He was walking through the doors. It's so. In July first,
one of his friends hopped Alogie into the engineer's face
and he booked his head out to check for passengers clearance.
Put his head out and one of my friends, my butter,
my brother's buddies were hot one and he realed backwards
(16:44):
and shut the door. Wham with that crank bam, and
my brother was only halfway in and he got torn
in half. Mhm. That was July one. When July thirty one,
Franklin was introduced. You guys, there's a very good chance
I would not have this career if this dude didn't
(17:08):
show up to cheer me up the same month that happened.
The same month that happened. I just loved seeing him.
If you won't ask me what Scholtz did, right, he
listened to somebody, do you have a perfect landing? Did
you just stick the landing? I mean, you know, come on, man,
he didn't know anything about his whole trepidation was built
(17:29):
around what do I know about black people and being black?
This guy is from Minnesota, and he's like, I'm going
to get it wrong in very nervous man. But he
got it right. It's okay, you don't have to get
it right. He put so much thought and care and
the Peanuts it became a global icon. I met this
(17:50):
guy who was a collector and I was brand new.
I was twenty six, you know, I was the youngest
cartoonist the syndication do on the whole country. And I
met this guy who said, I can help you sell
your original strips. That's what I do mhm. And I
would never do this today, but you know I needed money.
(18:11):
Sure it sounds good to me. So this guy, Mark,
nice enough guy, was my broker and I was talking
about Shultz's influence on me. One day, he says, Oh, Sparky,
that's my friend. You want to meet him? I said, wait, who,
who are you talking about? Sparky shots, that's my buddy.
I was like, you gotta be kidding me. He says,
(18:32):
if you ever come to California, call me, we'll get together.
Take your overday to meet Sparky. Sure, dude. It was like,
but there's nothing to compare that to will be. It'll
be like it's nine four and somebody's like, I know
Eddie Murphy. Yeah, if anything, You're like, should you be
(18:55):
telling me where Eddie Murphy lives? Like Sack, I was like,
it was crazy. I walk into this campus. It's not
a it's not an office building or anything. It's a
it's a disney like environment. He had his own ice
skating rink in his own restaurant cafe. Then he had
an office type building that you walk into and as
(19:17):
you walk in there's an atrium, massive, maybe three stories this. Yeah,
I'm I'm not gonna lie that much more money. You're like, what, wait,
so how did you decide what to spend it all?
Because I'm I'm actually expecting you to say weirder stuff
(19:38):
than what I'm here, because what I'm hearing still seems
relatively reasonable. He was. Yeah, he was a reasonable, humble man,
which I'm gonna get to in a second. He um.
He did have this one celebratory space though. As you
walked in, he just had the red barn you know,
snoopy on the thing. You can look up and it's
(19:58):
flunk can describe it. Just everywhere you look there was
something a lot of commemorate presidents and actors and they
I love you, Sparky, and that's not realized. His name
was Sparking. Everybody calls him Sparker, yet everybody Frank Sinatra,
like every all this stuff. I was so eager to
meet my my, my idol. I sent him an original
(20:20):
jump start from my first month of syndication. His office
was spartan, famously sparking. He had a desk to draw
on a tabled, right letters on a bookcase. He was
a gracious reader, and a sofa and my my jump
start was the only thing hanging up on the wall
(20:41):
of his office. Because I walking, I thought I was
seeing things. I said, Um, I said, I get it.
Your friend told I thought you I was coming to
you framed that. That's very nice. That's I get it, man,
that's very very I've very touched it. He said, what
do you what do you mean? That's you knew I
was coming, so you put the put the thing. But
(21:03):
the thing, no, he said, No, your work is great, man,
he said, Jumpstar has with Peanuts, has great characters. You
can do this comic strip for the rest of your life,
he said, But just just remember one thing. Don't let
the synthicate, you know, the people who distribute my work.
Don't let the synicate ever tell you what to do.
(21:25):
Don't pay any attention to them. The whole office filled
filled with non talented people entertainment to Josh. Yeah, it's
like the wildest thing about this whole story is just
the idea of Charles Schultz talking ship so like in
the office and he's like closed door behind you, listen,
(21:45):
don't let anybody son you, all right, like just like
like you. You always imagine him as like talking the
way Charlie Brown talks. He's like, nobody knows what they
do when you hold all of your I p okay
holding Josh, I'm not kidding. It's extremely important that the
creative person have utter trust in the talent that they've
(22:08):
been given, because everybody has not been given town. So hey,
by the way, Roy, just want to tell you, probably myself,
I would tell you this when I saw you do
is Boston racist? I just thought like this might be
like this ship go on a time capsule. It's so good,
it's so good. You didn't jump on anybody's case, You
(22:32):
never called anybody anything. You just let them dig themselves
into a hole they could not get out of. Just
tell me what you think that's it. Surely the people
of Boston must be feeling all that structural racism. To
find out, I went to one of the city's most
beloved cathedrals. Then, way part, I don't see that racism myself. Honestly, no,
(22:57):
I don't think Boston's racist. I think that we've got
a lot of like attention with with our sports being
in the media. So Boston's racist reputation is a conspiracy
formed by people who hate Boston sports teams for winning
all the damn time. Yes, they love to hate us. Yeah,
I don't think it Boston is a racist city at all.
(23:17):
So how do you know I don't feel it you know,
it's just a gut feel. I don't feel like it's racist.
I've just never encountered it. I said, oh my god,
this guy is an assassin, Like you have this pleasant
face and everything, and I'm like, he's just taking it
to him. Oh well, what you all are able to do,
(23:41):
you know, as cartoonists is so beautiful because you have
the gift of disarming people. No one reads comic strips
with their guard up. You watched The Daily Show in
a different sense, so it's like it's hard to explain,
but there's always a way to sneak in that knowledge.
Joe to the Break. There's a little fact about Franklin
(24:04):
that I didn't know until we was doing the prep
for this. And also, Josh, I want to talk to
you about some of your favorite um black cartoon characters
that maybe inspired you and put you in a different
place and made you think, oh, yes, it's okay to
be black in this world. I have have to I
got a white one too, but I definitely got a
black one. I got a black one now that I'm older,
(24:27):
I'm not even sure if he was written by black people.
It's beyond the scenes. We'll be right back Ford Motor
Company is committed to leading an innovation with its products
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(24:50):
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also wants to highlight their employees who advanced to titles
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(25:13):
Michigan's Black Leadership Advisory Council, and graduated from similar programs
like those that Ford is proud to sponsor, including the
Lab Drawer and n a c m E, the National
Action Council for Minorities and Engineering, which helped build the
community of leadership throughout these fields. Our purpose is to
help build a better world where every person is free
to move and pursue their dreams. Ford pays tribute to
(25:35):
Black history, are shared present, and an equitable future for
all built Ford Proud. Ford Motor company is committed to
leading an innovation with its products and services, but an
innovative future requires future innovators. We learned from the past,
take action in the present and impact the future. For
An honors African Americans who've made significant contributions in science, tech, engineering,
(25:59):
and math. For It is working towards empowering Black youth
to continue innovating within these fields and giving thanks to
individuals who have helped for create automotive icons like the
Bronco SUV and Thunderbird. Ford also wants to highlight their
employees who have advanced to titles like Chief Technology Officer,
assumed leadership roles like Chair of Michigan's Black Leadership Advisory Council,
(26:21):
and graduated from similar programs like those that Ford is
proud to sponsor, including the Lab Drawer and in a CMME,
the National Action Council for Minorities and Engineering, which helped
build a community of leadership throughout these fields. Our purpose
is to help build a better world where every person
is free to move and pursue their dreams. Forward pays
(26:41):
tribute to Black history, are shared present, and an equitable
future for all built Forward Proud. This episode is brought
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d C and PR. I'm gonna be honest. Let me
let me show you what representation can do. Rob. I
(27:25):
also used to think that pig Pen was black because
he was so dirty, and I just always thought and
then not only did I think it was dirt the
way they represented pig Pan, I thought it was must
because I never associated black people with being dirty. But
your aunts and your aunt ties always tell you, boy,
you smell out, You smell like outside, y'all need to
(27:47):
put some builder in a y'all kids stank. I was
just like, oh damn, maybe some funky kids. I just
need to. Like pig Pen just reminded me I need
to always take a bath and be fresh. There was
something interesting and Josh, I don't know if you knew
this either. Uh. Well, first off, Josh, did you know
that Franklin has a last name? Um? So, I didn't
(28:09):
know Franklin had last name until more recently. But also,
just real quick off of your Pigpen thing, I think
that by the time I was growing up, I had
there were more black cartoon characters, so I never thought
pig Pen was black. But as far as representation goes,
he did fully represent poor whites like like like that.
(28:33):
For me, when I saw a pig Pit, I was like,
I know a kid like that. I know that he
that he struggling, you know what I mean, And like
nobody we all act like it's not happening, but it's
like he shows up, he's got weirder stories than everybody.
We're all eleven, and he's smoking. It's like, that's Pigpit,
Like how could it not be? He had no last
(28:54):
name either. By the way, Pigpen has no last name,
Schroeder has no last name, and Franklin had no last
name for a long time. But now Franklin's last name
I found out it's Armstrong, Rob Armstrong. Is there any relation?
Is he named after you? That happened? Well, I was
in my office. Uh my cap, my studio working, and
(29:19):
the phone rings and spark he's on the phone. He says, listen,
I'm not gonna keep you on the phone. I just
want you to um help me out with something. You ever,
I wonder why Franklin's got the last name. I said, Uh, well,
I thought Franklin might be his last name. Sometimes. No, person,
(29:43):
that's the last he says, No, no, no, I'm doing
a video. It's going to go strate. The DVD called him.
You're in the Super Bowl Charlie Brown. And in that
video he's a p A announcer and he announces the
kid's first name and last name and then hen now
and they kick a football and throw football or whatever,
and Charlie Brown runs out, and Linus van Pelt runs out,
(30:06):
and Lucy van Pelt runs out. But in the script
you can see that when Franklin is called, there's that
space in there the p A announcer he says, and
now Franklin, And there's a kind of a we awkward
like you go, you know kind of he said, that's
not that's not cool, right. How would you feel if
(30:27):
the p announcer says, and now Franklin arm Strong runs down.
How would you feel about that? I said, uh, well,
you're not thinking about putting my name in your video?
He said, no, no no, no, I'm thinking about changing his
name to your name from now on. There are a
(30:48):
few hard to believe moments in my life, and I
already talked about one. That's the other one. The other
ones are awful things, but great this is this is
basically like if you went over to Eddie Murphy's house
and then Eddie Murphy was like, I'm thinking of changing
my last name to Johnson exactly, I'm Eddie Johnson. Then
(31:09):
he always have to wonder. It's like should I quit now? Then?
Like should I? Like should I stop because I've done
it everything? Yeah, this is the wild I mean, first
it was the it was the advice with it, like, hey,
don't let those sun do you make sure that like
honestly that like that story is already like perfect and amazing,
(31:30):
and in say, but apartment wishes. It even went further
like he he just put a pistol all the desk.
It was like, I remember to keep that thingg on you,
like just like Paul Schultz is actually like and it's safe,
thug and nobody do He's like about my money and
I'm about my time. Josh, what were your favorite did
you have? Because I think what Rob is presented to
(31:51):
me is it's made me reflect this. So I've been
sitting here thinking the whole time and even telling these
stories and I'm like, well, damn, did any black character
do that to me? Did any black character make me feel?
And I got and I got to tow from my
ch other. I want to hear yours first. So there
are any black characters. Theyn't have to be kom a strip.
(32:12):
Let's just go full television animation as well. Okay. I
love the Proud Family growing up, and so a lot
of characters on Proud Family, like Sugar Baba, everybody. I
felt bad for the dad, Like, like, honestly, the dad
and Proud Family, they gave it to him too hard
because he's catching it from all angles. Like even as
a kid, I was watching a Proud Family and I
(32:33):
was like, this is why Dad's don't stay. This is
like he got look at what he has to deal with.
He got Sugar Baba, he got his wife, he got
the kids, he got other kids coming over, these weird
kids coming over. It's like why would you sign up
for this life? Uh? The other one I loved, um
Black Panther. I'm not gonna lie. A part of me
and this is like, you know, like when you're a
(32:55):
teenager and you're like real, like I don't know if
I can speak for two of you, but sometimes in
your teagers, you're already rebellious. So then you get a
little militant, like you get a little like ohh, and
then you will start learning like American history, you get
mad at everything. A part of me was like, like
I know that the story story we saw in Black
Panther was written from Black Panther, But if part of
(33:17):
me was like full kill Monger, Like I was like,
man kill Manger just right, all right? So how about
how about we blow up everything? Like I think that yeah,
because I'm like reading complex as a teenager, which is
already niche, and then and then I'm coming across characters
who were supposed to be crazy, but then I'm like
they might just be correct, you know. Because also when
(33:40):
you're a black kid, you have to make characters black sometimes,
so like when you're a black kid, any character that
doesn't have peach or pink skin is black. So Piccolo
from Dragon ball Z Black fanos black like like everybody
that is not white is black and a black kid's
when they're coming up reading comments, he's just nailed one
(34:03):
of my people that I was about to name, Panthro
from the ThunderCats. Yeah, he's blue. That was my dog
because he was like the leader. He was very wise
and you know he was always fixing Ship. You know,
Panthro was always the repair man of all the ThunderCats.
(34:25):
Panther had those shoulders too. Yeah, it's just deep vote line. Oh,
you shouldn't be doing that like a like a living ancestor.
It's the code of the ThunderCats that it's a stupid code. No,
the code that served us well for centurists. And the
other one was roadblocked from g I Joe. But now
(34:45):
that I'm older and I looked back at it, they
was always kind of making him rhyme when he talked
and Ship it was it was it was almost gibet. Uh,
what's it to you, Jack, I'm hungry, I'm a gourmet
and the name's not Jacket's roadblock. I'm with g I Joe.
It wasn't quite but it was close to job and
(35:09):
I'm like I don't know if this was the right
thing to influence me. Surprisingly though, growing up like and
this is me not trying to start any comic beef.
For whatever reason, fat Albert did not connect with me.
And I don't know if it was the music, like
I'm not a dancer, Like, I don't know what it was,
(35:30):
but like my my older cousins, they loved it. Fat
Albert was was their thing. I don't know if Ian.
You know, I'm forty two, so I graduated high school
ninety six, so by the time I caught fat Albert,
it was kind of on the back end of it,
and maybe even syndication here and there. So I don't
know if it was because the music wasn't over my
error or what, but that was the one I just
(35:52):
I could never like I would watch What's Happened, like
I would watch all the black Live sitcoms, but when
fat Albert came on, I was like, he's trying to
go out? So what a what an tag? First of all,
the no, no, no, no, I'm just saying, think about
if you're like, if the creator is listening, that's so
funny because it's like you're already a kid is a cartoon,
(36:16):
and when their cartoon comes all, you're like, I think
I need some exercise. I loved the fat Outbret. You guys,
I was real into fat Out. I was so into
fat Outbret. I painted a giant mural my first time
painting a mural in my bedroom. It was it was,
you know, it was five and a half whatever I
could reach. It was five and halfy tall, big fat belly.
I love fat Our. It's uh, it's so awful, like
(36:39):
the legacy of fat Atburat so Tarnag I was. I was.
I'm a Philly dude. That cartoon was set in Philadelphia.
Bil Kazi was a Philly due. I mean he still is,
still was a Philly dude. Yeah, legendary you know cartoon.
It was just I don't know. They started dancing Josh
and I was like, oh no, how to dance? Girls
(36:59):
don't like me. Where's my baseball? But I'm just saying, okay.
My only perspective that I'm coming from is like, since
it's a cartoon that you're a kid, it's like, let's
let's PROTEI for a second. Fount Albert was a serial
or a candy and then somebody put it from you
or you were like, you know what, I should eat
my vegetables. It's like it's the complete opposite of how
(37:20):
kids are supposed to respond to those things. And so
that's why it's killing me that you watched it and
you even saw what you saw the theme song and
you were like, um, let me do some callisthetics, just
like big words for a little kid to just I
think I need some pull ups in my life or something.
We'll be come back, Rob. I want to talk to
you about the inspiration that you try to put into
(37:42):
your characters in the way that you try to influence well,
you know, the better question is how much of it
is overt versus covert influencing? Uh in the content that
you create with jump Start and we're gonna talk a
little bit about the book. This is beyond the scenes.
We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you
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Fox News Podcasts Network. The Fox News Rundown the contrast
to perspectives you won't hear anywhere else, your daily dose
of news twice a day, going farre beyond the headlines,
(39:06):
tamping into the massive reporting resources of Fox News to
provide a full picture of the news of the day.
I'm I'm Maria Barto Romeo, I'm Brian Killmade and this
is the Fox News Rundown. Follow the Fox News Rundown
on Spotify. Today, we have been talking about black cartoon
(39:29):
characters and Franklin, who was the first black Do we know? What?
Do we even? Was? Franklin from the west side or
the south side. Did Charles Schultz, Rob did he get
that beat into Franklin's backstory? Two parent homes, single parent home,
and Peanuts. They all come from a kind of murky
(39:50):
parent home. But Franklin, unlike the other characters, talks about
his grandfather. He quotes his grandfather a lot. Franklin said
to Charlie Brown, my grandfather fought um Fort in Vietnam,
so you know you went away for a long time.
And Charlie brownson, my dad, my grand my dad's a barber.
(40:13):
He fought in the war. But I don't know what
you want has no idea. No, he has no idea.
Parents go to father Like that's major, not enough. So
Harrods are Harris, your parents are parents. And Peanuts they're like,
(40:35):
you know, want want want, want want, I think how Yeah,
Charlie has a has a conversation with Franklin's like, listen,
I have an agreement at my house. I don't talk
to them and they don't talk to me. Okay, we
eat at the same time and we stay out of
each other's business, all right. So Rob, let's talk a
(40:59):
little bit it about jump Start, and let's talk about
the book what's interesting about Jump Start to me is
the level in which you choose intentionally at times to
bathe the characters and positivity and humor and positivity. You're
not using what was me or home drum or you know,
(41:22):
like as to use peanuts as an analogy snatching the
football away from someone and you know, and denying the
character of the reward like you had. You had a
strip with the kids just want to spend time with dad.
Dad just got home and Dad is like, get off me.
I just need to breathe. And it's just the kids
waiting to hug their father, And I'm like that's so touching, Like, like,
(41:48):
what are the storylines that you're trying to draw to
with jump Start? Because it really does leave you feeling
good and better about the world. More often than not,
it's a subversive attempt to address a very hot topic
in the black community. Rather than tell people, Um, I'm
(42:11):
not this, you're that's a misperception, that's a misconception, that's racist,
that stereotyped set of telling them that jump Starts sneaks
in a different door with a lot of things to
refute that Joe is um desperate to spend time with
(42:32):
his kids and goes out of his way to be entertaining.
He's got a ritual with his twins with the sock
puppet called the sock Ness Monster in the bathtub and
all that. He's just one of these dads that would
spend all his free time with his kids if he could.
His wife and his kids. He's desperately in love with
his wife. Marcy is his girl. You know, Joe doesn't
have a fling affairs and all this. He doesn't look
(42:53):
at that many a great special edition series, though the
Jump Start Side Chick run like a special Tinna. Don't
let me tell you what to do, but you know,
keep talking. I was warned a long time ago someone
suggests to you to have one of your characters run
off with that girl from the office. Don't, don't. Don't
(43:14):
listen to him. Roy. I will take it under advice,
and I take everything under advisement. I never say never,
but I wanna you, guys, here's the thing. People think
I came up like that like my characters. People think
I have a nuclear family that I was raised with
a mom and a dad and all that, or I
(43:34):
have a lot of brothers like Marcy's got twelve stepbrothers,
one place in the NFL, the huge to our giants.
You know, one is eight tall. He teaches kindergarten. He
wants a pastor and wants a fireman, and all of
that is made up for the sake of presenting something
other than what people are expecting to see. I'm just
(43:56):
trying to stun the reader sometimes and have them inc wow,
that's I never saw that. You never saw that coming.
And I want to do it in a way that
it's charming. I want to make people think twice before
being bigg at it. Calling people racist is tricky. Racism
isn't what people might think it is. Racism is awful.
(44:18):
It's someone deliberately holding you back, impeding your progress, hurting
you politically, coming up with bullshit to arrest you with
and to stick on you. And like Biggert Trito is
is more pervasive kind of a narrow mindedness that affects us.
That's almost everyone. And I want my black reader also
(44:41):
to rejump start and feel like they're seeing something new
that they've never seen before. It's not like the Cosby Show.
It's not like that Joe was an actual cop. Like
Joe has been shot like it has been shot by
joy riders, black kids in the car all that. Like
he's just out there doing police work, you know what
I mean. So when all this police stuff happened and
(45:02):
cops got vilified, Joe didn't get vilified. My My profile
was elevated during BLM like cops shows were taken off
television and my profile went boom because I do a
character driven work, not a circumstance driven work, not a
(45:24):
not a I'm not going to comment on the newspaper today.
These are people to my readers. They seem to be
going through life, love and disappointment, and they seem to
be redemptive. They just keep loving each other and it
was around them no matter what, and that can help
(45:44):
influence a lot of social good. Josh, what is it
about stand up? Or maybe you disagree with me on this,
but Rob makes a good case for the repetitive nuance
of humanizing characters, thus eventually influencing of views. Right, comedy
we don't have that luxury in most instances. You have
(46:06):
an hour in any market on TV, you have an hour.
Do you think comedy can be an influence for social
good or because the nature of our performance genre we
don't get the luxury of that nuance all the time.
I think, I think you just have to make sure
that that's how you come off. I think that when
(46:28):
when it's you as an individual, you become something more
than just checking boxes. When when you speak and if
people get to know you, I mean one of the
things that comes with its fame. I think that with
a certain amount of fame, people are are seen as
more than just this person who thinks this thing, and
people give them a little bit more of an opportunity
(46:48):
to express a nuanced point. But I think that it's there,
but it's just it's very tough for it to be
that that's same, not just because they are two different mediums,
but I think that would stand up. It is like
easier to twist someone's words or to like wilfully misinterpret
(47:10):
what they're trying to say. Um, And I think it
comes with a body of work and just a public
persona that's like laid out over years to give people
the time of day. Yeah, it's Rob, tell us about
the book. Tell us what the book is and where
people can find the book. Brother. So, uh, my newest
(47:32):
book it is called on a Roll And I'm so
like it's just an honor honestly, because this is the
only thirty year treasury by black cartoonists in history. It's
the first one like you know, you see calvinet Hobbs
books and the Foreside books. This is all jumps thought, brother,
and it's got more than just comic strips in it.
(47:53):
It's got it's got paintings I've done. It's got it
is that's my desk, that's this right, and it's got
five hundred strips that I felt were my best work,
my best best representation of how three years have gone.
And I know you'll like it. I know you're like,
(48:13):
anyone could be the collection I think you just gave me.
You know what will be? You know e activity for
me in the five year old, he's getting decent with
the reading. He is interested in humor. I try not
to encourage it, but I will expose him to anything
he shows interested. So instead of having him laugh at
(48:36):
Garfield and then he'll grow up. Just wanted to eat
lasagna all the time, respectfully, Jim Davids, no disrespect to
Garfield Garfield. I ride with Garfield Garfield and friends every
Saturday morning in the nineties that was my ship. Uh,
it's all love, so we done. What would be wild
is if Jim Davis was a thug too. So it's
like they both have like a low key thing that
(48:56):
nobody knew about. Like and like Jim David, stay ready,
he'd be listening for anybody that breaks him up. He
is why Charles Schultz put the gut all the desk
goes like keep that thing. Are you all right? You
never know? You never know? Well, thank you so much, uh, Rob,
(49:18):
the book is on a roll, a jump start treasury,
Rob Armstrong, thank you so much for coming beyond the
scenes with us. Josh Johnson as always, Thank you, get sir.
Are you you back out on the road. I guess not.
We're back in studio, so that's gotta work now. Yeah.
If you're asking about dates that have to promote your
your correct I do not have that that, Betty. Right now,
(49:44):
I've all the road with Trevor, so whatever his dates are,
you can see me open up for him. But that's
about it. Within you straight then. Thank you so much, Rob,
Thank you so much, Josh. That's all the time we
have for today. I wish we had more time. Man,
this is this is history. I would, because you know
the next story from you about Charles Schultz was gonna
be about his private lear Jetty probably owned three planets,
(50:07):
all that off that peanuts money. Look, hopefully we've taken
you beyond the scenes. Let's see you next week. Are
you enjoying yourself? Well? If you are, you can do
the podcast things liking and subscribing and leave a nice
little comments. When you say how smooth my voice is,
(50:28):
make sure you add that in the review smooth boys.
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new all electric vehicles that offer efficient and exhilarating driving experiences.
Ford is going above and beyond to create the smartest,
most connected e vs and technology, and to make sure
that customers are well educated on how to move forward
with electric energy. Don't be last to join us as
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with Forward's line up of electric vehicles with many affordable
options to choose from. Head over to Fort dot com
to learn more Built Fort Proud
Ford Motor Company is committed to moving forward together with
all new electric vehicles that offer an efficient and exhilarating
driving experience. Don't be the last to join us on
the road of new electric vehicles as we redefine what
electric can do. Ford is going above and beyond to
not only create the smartest, most connected e v s
and technology, but to also make sure that customers are
(00:22):
well educated on how to move forward with electric energy.
Some benefits of driving an all electric vehicle include saving
money annually on gas and zero vehicle emissions. Forward, customers
will also have easy and simple access to charge, whether
you charge at home with an overnight plug in Ford
mobile charger or on the road at one of the
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of electric vehicles with many affordable options to choose from.
Head on over to Ford dot com to learn more.
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(01:29):
to learn more Built Forward Proud. Hey, welcome to Beyond
the Scenes. This is the podcast where we dig a
little deeper into segments that have already aired on The
Daily Show with Trevor Noah, Like, you've already got the segment,
but now figet to get you a little extra gravy,
(01:51):
just a little little extra on the side, right, It's right.
It's like when you watch a Marvel movie and then
Samuel L. Jackson appeared to end, and you get a
little extra movie after the credit. That's what we are,
were the after beyond the credit scenes of The Daily Show. Um,
I'm Roy Wood Jr. Today we're going to be talking
about a piece that aired in a piece that celebrated
(02:14):
the fiftieth anniversary of the introduction of Franklin, the first
black character ever in the Peanuts comic strip. Let's give
him a little sample newspaper. Franklin was great. You can't
argue that, but when they put him on TV, it
was a different story. All of a sudden, they made
a mystereotype. That's why. Why couldn't Franklin just do the
(03:03):
hokey pokey shop right? Anyway? Like, I hear what you're saying,
but I like, I liked having Franklin on the screen,
and I think it's important for kids to be able
to see a version of themselves. Okay, cool, So if
that's the case, the cartoon should honor the original revolutionary
spirit of Franklin. If you're gonna make him rap, do
it right with me today to discuss this piece, this
(03:33):
segment it's inception. Uh. Two guests. First, one is an
Emmy nominated writer and a stand up comedian writer for
The Daily Show. I guess I should add that too,
since we're going beyond the scenes. Josh Johnson, how are
you doing today, sir? I'm doing well. You know I
can't complain as your side hustle of delivering soothing voicemails
(03:55):
to strangers for a dollar a pop. That's a nice
microphone you got over the thanks. I've made one dollar
other guests. The voice you just heard is that of
cartoonists and creator of the jump Start comic strip, and
he has a book coming out. We're gonna talk about
that a little later in the pot. Rob Armstrong, welcome
to be on the scenes. Thanks for having me. This
(04:17):
is very exciting man. Now, Rob, I want to start
with you and let's I'm gonna just take you back
to a little young Roy Wood Jr. I didn't see
a lot of representation, as the old people call it,
the funny pages. You know, I read, you know, comic
strips going up. You know, I was a Garfield guy.
I was a Calvin and Hobbes. I pretty much own
(04:39):
most everything that Bill Waterson put out. And then for
a quick minute I was reading The Phantom. Then my
mom saw and didn't like it. Until then she started
like literally cut out certain comic strips that wasn't allowed
to read. Like a lot of kids, I did read Peanuts.
Although I will say, just as an a side in
terms of black characters, I appreciate yet a Heathcliff over
(05:01):
Garfield because Heathcliff for sure was even if he weren't
a black cat, he was for sure thug. He was
out there whipping ass and fighting dogs everything. Yeah, he
Cliff was. Heathcliff was um. He was a hard scrapping
cat man, don't he was? Like he beat Heathcliff with
beat Garfield's ass. Al Right, So, as a cartoon as
(05:24):
I know that you are very familiar with the history
of your craft, can you run us through the history
of how Franklin was introduced in the Peanuts strip? Yeah? Man, Well,
first of all, I want to just say that a
lot of press has been given to Franklin and and
to show obviously because of Franklin. But Moriy turn I
don't know if you guys got We Pals and your
local paper growing up. No, what's that? We Pals is
(05:47):
the first syndicated comic strip by a black person in
the country, and it was launched in nineteen six five.
The guy who um created We Pals, his name was
Morey Turner is stripped. We wasn't as widely syndicated. He
was in hundreds of newspapers, but Shouts and Peanuts was
in thousands of newspapers. They were both in my Philadelphia
(06:09):
bulletin as a child, and both had enormous impact on me.
In ninet, Mori was in the game for three years.
He was in This is not meant to be fund
that he was in ten newspapers in the whole country,
seventeen somewhere around there, like compared to peanuts none existent.
(06:31):
When the cities were smoldering. After Dr King's assassination, Maury
was in hot demand. Suddenly he was in fifty newspapers,
seventy five. His phone wouldn't stop bringing hundred newspapers, two
hundred newspapers. It was the year to changed his life,
and he always felt weird that Dr King had to
(06:51):
die for that to happen. You guys, I feel the
exact same way because of George Floyd, Like, suddenly a
lot of things is including this podcast, happened after George Floyd.
Although this isn't directly like your people literally calling me
after the verdict. Um the newspaper in Minneapolis at a
jump start after the verdict said buddy, what's up with
(07:12):
that jump start thing? As an ally, we sure we
love to We'll make it look well, we'll move Marmaduke
over a couple of thirty two years in the game.
That's exactly what happened. I felt it was surreal. I've
been around for a long time. So Franklin that same
year and was introduced into the Peanuts cast. On July one,
(07:38):
right after King got assassinated. Um, a letter shows up
and Shall shows his office from this this woman, a
Jewish woman named Harriett Glickman. It was around like mid
April or so. Of course, King died on the fourth
and he gets this letter saying, you have this huge platform.
You can do something about this. Because you have the
voice and the platform that people pay attention to, you
(08:00):
should add a black character. And he ignored it. You know,
we just kindly said, uh, I don't think that would
be a good idea, But she kept pressing. She sent
them another letter, and then she sent them another letter.
There were a few letters in before he came out
and said, if I did something like that, it might
come off as condescending. But by then she had told
(08:24):
so many of her black friends. I met Harry. She
died not long ago, like Harry, so fearless this she's
so she had contacted so many black people and she's
a little Jewish lady. It was so funny. I'm mad.
I said, oh my gosh, I thought you were black. Um,
(08:44):
she got other people to say the same thing. So
when he listened to these people, you know, Frankly just
appeared like out of nowhere. So he just did it,
and the syndicate said, uh, yeah, we're not running these show.
So was my friend, and I called him sparky. So
if you hear me calling this guy sparky, forgive me.
(09:04):
I'm being very familiar. Sparky said, um, okay, well I
quit whenever I hear people stay. Um I saw that Thanksgiving.
Uh bs, man, he must have been a racist, not that. Hey,
he's my friend. I happen to know he's not a racist.
But there aren't many people black or white they are
willing to throw away a seventh figure career like that.
(09:31):
He said, really not running out the wounds, Franklin, I'm done,
And they said, oh, we didn't mean that. That's you know,
we want to run him and uh he hey, man,
he did what Sinatra did for Sammy, like, oh, he
can't come in here. Yeah, he can't come in here
and play with us, he can't come in front door.
Wein performing. Sinatra was crazy. O g like, really, we're
(09:51):
out of here. Cobanon was like, wait, we didn't mean
just just one one is alright, that's not too bad. Yeah,
that's a spot on. We almost messed up the money impression,
Like wait that that quick? So Josh, when we talk
about inclusion and representation, you know, that's always the conversation today.
(10:15):
We need black characters on TV and we need to
say more black faces on the TV. As you all
were putting this piece together, how difficult was it to
try and maintain the balance of sprinkling in this awareness
that this character really did change the face of representation
for black youth, while also find a couple of jokes
(10:36):
in there along the way. I feel like anytime something
is um insane in a bad way, anytime something is
like unacceptable in a bad way, there is something funny
about that, you know what I mean. So it's like
the same way that it's crazy that took so long
for there to be a black character and it just
to be normal, It's like that is also funny. It's
(10:59):
funny because wild, you know. And so I think that
that's where the jokes come from, because on one hand,
you're like, wow, this is this is we're a little late.
If if you if you think about how long we
all have been around each other, and our kids have
been playing together everything like that, we're a little late.
But then also I think that you you wanna just
(11:19):
kind of, like you said, convey that this is a
big deal. So I know it's not I know it's
not a big deal. Now we've got like half of
HBO is black now, and like you know, all these
all these shows are just like, so there's there's so
black that like you have cousins now who are on
the show and you're like, you don't even act. It's like, yeah,
but they needed somebody. So yeah, like there's there's that much.
(11:41):
But you have to take it back a few decades
to where it's like there was nothing. And even some
of the representation we see now, whether it's Asian or black,
it's like it's an overwhelming amount happening quickly recently. It's
not as if this is just the world we've always
lived in. So I think that those are the main
mindset you have to keep in mind when you write
for pieces like this, where you have to put it
(12:05):
in context to the time, and you also have to
acknowledge that, yeah, this is this is like a wild thing.
It is it is as messed up as it is
it is funny that the world could be that messed up.
So Rob to your point earlier about Mr Schultz having
complete autonomy over the creative of his comic strip and
choosing to put a black character in this comic strip,
(12:27):
I would imagine that he didn't have like, there was
no diversity and inclusion board to run your black characters by.
There was no correct me if I'm wrong, But I
don't imagine that comic books have the same focus group
type level of detail before something is released to the public,
the way a television show, the way a movie is.
(12:47):
What do you think Schultz got right? And where do
you think some places where the representation could have been
I don't want to say a little bit better, but
it was a step in the right direction. But what
what else do you wish that you could have seen
from the first black comic strip character? Or was Franklin's
presence enough for you to get the ball rolling? Roy?
(13:08):
I saw what you guys did to my boy Franklin
on his fiftieth he was of all the clips are Franklin?
We found the one when he's sitting on the on
the thanks if the Thanksgiving So I just don't want
him to be the other kid all the time, even
that Thanksgiving. Yeah they invited him, but look what they
(13:30):
ain't fluttering the ti himself, even the dog just to
sit with the kids, which the dogs even at the
damn table. It's cool though, Franklin, Franklin. Look man, Franklin,
they did you a favor. You don't want none of
that blandass white people turkey anyway, they ain't putting those
Frankles on there. You know, they don't season the food
(13:50):
right if y'all have Thanksgiving in Africa. I had them breakdancing.
I never even saw that breakdancing. I don't know where.
I'm like, where did they like? What kind of research team? Fine?
Oh they go beyond. It was every time with this kid.
Anytime you walk down the street in peanuts Ville, you
might run into Franklin. And when his homeboy pop walking,
(14:12):
and even when he's hanging out with his friends, everyone
else gets a normal handshake with No, not Franklin. He
gotta slap skin. See what I mean. All the other
peanuts are just kids, But Franklin's run around peanut Ville
like a damn baby shaft. He's a tiny bad mother.
Your mother I'm talking about Franklin. Okay, so's different. We're talking.
(14:36):
Just take us back to see different. It's very different. Spark.
He had very little to do with TV. He actually
trusted two men, Bill Melindez and Lee Mendels. Those two
men are responsible for his television success, all those those
Christmas specials and all that great pumpkins. Great, but the
introduction was tenuous because the world was so tense, you guys,
(15:00):
it was just a crazy time. I'm a little older
than almost everybody I meet nowadays, and nineteen sixty eight
in America was just awful. In the same year that
Dr King was assassinated. He he got murdered in in April.
(15:21):
In July July one, My brother Billy, who was a
wild boy. My brother was seven years older than I
and he he was just a wild kid. My mom
had a single mom, and she had a hard time
with Billy anyway. He uh, he went out, it was
horsing around with his friends. We lived right near the subway,
(15:41):
was elevated above the street like in Chicago, and we
just here rumbling all day and night. My mom hated it.
She was kind of forced to live, and we lived
and didn't have any way of getting out of that situation.
And she was haunted by the subway, the sound of it,
and she feared Billy would be killed on it one
day because him and his friends were so these guys
(16:01):
they could jump the turnstyle get through those doors before
the guy had a chance. Anyway, she sent them downtown
and said, listening, I don't want you horsing around. I
do you need to pay sneakers. Here's money for the sneakers,
his money for your car fare. We call it the
car fair to get on the subway. Don't jump on it.
Don't play around. Serious, he says, okay, Mom, I won't.
(16:24):
He was walking through the doors. It's so. In July first,
one of his friends hopped Alogie into the engineer's face
and he booked his head out to check for passengers clearance.
Put his head out and one of my friends, my butter,
my brother's buddies were hot one and he realed backwards
(16:44):
and shut the door. Wham with that crank bam, and
my brother was only halfway in and he got torn
in half. Mhm. That was July one. When July thirty one,
Franklin was introduced. You guys, there's a very good chance
I would not have this career if this dude didn't
(17:08):
show up to cheer me up the same month that happened.
The same month that happened. I just loved seeing him.
If you won't ask me what Scholtz did, right, he
listened to somebody, do you have a perfect landing? Did
you just stick the landing? I mean, you know, come on, man,
he didn't know anything about his whole trepidation was built
(17:29):
around what do I know about black people and being black?
This guy is from Minnesota, and he's like, I'm going
to get it wrong in very nervous man. But he
got it right. It's okay, you don't have to get
it right. He put so much thought and care and
the Peanuts it became a global icon. I met this
(17:50):
guy who was a collector and I was brand new.
I was twenty six, you know, I was the youngest
cartoonist the syndication do on the whole country. And I
met this guy who said, I can help you sell
your original strips. That's what I do mhm. And I
would never do this today, but you know I needed money.
(18:11):
Sure it sounds good to me. So this guy, Mark,
nice enough guy, was my broker and I was talking
about Shultz's influence on me. One day, he says, Oh, Sparky,
that's my friend. You want to meet him? I said, wait, who,
who are you talking about? Sparky shots, that's my buddy.
I was like, you gotta be kidding me. He says,
(18:32):
if you ever come to California, call me, we'll get together.
Take your overday to meet Sparky. Sure, dude. It was like,
but there's nothing to compare that to will be. It'll
be like it's nine four and somebody's like, I know
Eddie Murphy. Yeah, if anything, You're like, should you be
(18:55):
telling me where Eddie Murphy lives? Like Sack, I was like,
it was crazy. I walk into this campus. It's not
a it's not an office building or anything. It's a
it's a disney like environment. He had his own ice
skating rink in his own restaurant cafe. Then he had
an office type building that you walk into and as
(19:17):
you walk in there's an atrium, massive, maybe three stories this. Yeah,
I'm I'm not gonna lie that much more money. You're like, what, wait,
so how did you decide what to spend it all?
Because I'm I'm actually expecting you to say weirder stuff
(19:38):
than what I'm here, because what I'm hearing still seems
relatively reasonable. He was. Yeah, he was a reasonable, humble man,
which I'm gonna get to in a second. He um.
He did have this one celebratory space though. As you
walked in, he just had the red barn you know,
snoopy on the thing. You can look up and it's
(19:58):
flunk can describe it. Just everywhere you look there was
something a lot of commemorate presidents and actors and they
I love you, Sparky, and that's not realized. His name
was Sparking. Everybody calls him Sparker, yet everybody Frank Sinatra,
like every all this stuff. I was so eager to
meet my my, my idol. I sent him an original
(20:20):
jump start from my first month of syndication. His office
was spartan, famously sparking. He had a desk to draw
on a tabled, right letters on a bookcase. He was
a gracious reader, and a sofa and my my jump
start was the only thing hanging up on the wall
(20:41):
of his office. Because I walking, I thought I was
seeing things. I said, Um, I said, I get it.
Your friend told I thought you I was coming to
you framed that. That's very nice. That's I get it, man,
that's very very I've very touched it. He said, what
do you what do you mean? That's you knew I
was coming, so you put the put the thing. But
(21:03):
the thing, no, he said, No, your work is great, man,
he said, Jumpstar has with Peanuts, has great characters. You
can do this comic strip for the rest of your life,
he said, But just just remember one thing. Don't let
the synthicate, you know, the people who distribute my work.
Don't let the synicate ever tell you what to do.
(21:25):
Don't pay any attention to them. The whole office filled
filled with non talented people entertainment to Josh. Yeah, it's
like the wildest thing about this whole story is just
the idea of Charles Schultz talking ship so like in
the office and he's like closed door behind you, listen,
(21:45):
don't let anybody son you, all right, like just like
like you. You always imagine him as like talking the
way Charlie Brown talks. He's like, nobody knows what they
do when you hold all of your I p okay
holding Josh, I'm not kidding. It's extremely important that the
creative person have utter trust in the talent that they've
(22:08):
been given, because everybody has not been given town. So hey,
by the way, Roy, just want to tell you, probably myself,
I would tell you this when I saw you do
is Boston racist? I just thought like this might be
like this ship go on a time capsule. It's so good,
it's so good. You didn't jump on anybody's case, You
(22:32):
never called anybody anything. You just let them dig themselves
into a hole they could not get out of. Just
tell me what you think that's it. Surely the people
of Boston must be feeling all that structural racism. To
find out, I went to one of the city's most
beloved cathedrals. Then, way part, I don't see that racism myself. Honestly, no,
(22:57):
I don't think Boston's racist. I think that we've got
a lot of like attention with with our sports being
in the media. So Boston's racist reputation is a conspiracy
formed by people who hate Boston sports teams for winning
all the damn time. Yes, they love to hate us. Yeah,
I don't think it Boston is a racist city at all.
(23:17):
So how do you know I don't feel it you know,
it's just a gut feel. I don't feel like it's racist.
I've just never encountered it. I said, oh my god,
this guy is an assassin, Like you have this pleasant
face and everything, and I'm like, he's just taking it
to him. Oh well, what you all are able to do,
(23:41):
you know, as cartoonists is so beautiful because you have
the gift of disarming people. No one reads comic strips
with their guard up. You watched The Daily Show in
a different sense, so it's like it's hard to explain,
but there's always a way to sneak in that knowledge.
Joe to the Break. There's a little fact about Franklin
(24:04):
that I didn't know until we was doing the prep
for this. And also, Josh, I want to talk to
you about some of your favorite um black cartoon characters
that maybe inspired you and put you in a different
place and made you think, oh, yes, it's okay to
be black in this world. I have have to I
got a white one too, but I definitely got a
black one. I got a black one now that I'm older,
(24:27):
I'm not even sure if he was written by black people.
It's beyond the scenes. We'll be right back Ford Motor
Company is committed to leading an innovation with its products
and services, but in innovative future requires future innovators. We
learned from the past to take action in the present
and impact the future. Ford honors African Americans who've made
(24:50):
significant contributions in science, tech, engineering, and math. Ford is
working towards empowering Black youth to continue innovating within these
fields and giving links to individuals who have helped forward
create automotive icons like the Bronco SUV and Thunderbird. Ford
also wants to highlight their employees who advanced to titles
like Chief Technology Officer, assumed leadership roles like Chair of
(25:13):
Michigan's Black Leadership Advisory Council, and graduated from similar programs
like those that Ford is proud to sponsor, including the
Lab Drawer and n a c m E, the National
Action Council for Minorities and Engineering, which helped build the
community of leadership throughout these fields. Our purpose is to
help build a better world where every person is free
to move and pursue their dreams. Ford pays tribute to
(25:35):
Black history, are shared present, and an equitable future for
all built Ford Proud. Ford Motor company is committed to
leading an innovation with its products and services, but an
innovative future requires future innovators. We learned from the past,
take action in the present and impact the future. For
An honors African Americans who've made significant contributions in science, tech, engineering,
(25:59):
and math. For It is working towards empowering Black youth
to continue innovating within these fields and giving thanks to
individuals who have helped for create automotive icons like the
Bronco SUV and Thunderbird. Ford also wants to highlight their
employees who have advanced to titles like Chief Technology Officer,
assumed leadership roles like Chair of Michigan's Black Leadership Advisory Council,
(26:21):
and graduated from similar programs like those that Ford is
proud to sponsor, including the Lab Drawer and in a CMME,
the National Action Council for Minorities and Engineering, which helped
build a community of leadership throughout these fields. Our purpose
is to help build a better world where every person
is free to move and pursue their dreams. Forward pays
(26:41):
tribute to Black history, are shared present, and an equitable
future for all built Forward Proud. This episode is brought
to you by Baked Baked Lays, Cheetos, Ruffles, and Tostitos.
Give you all the flavor with less fat so you
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d C and PR. I'm gonna be honest. Let me
let me show you what representation can do. Rob. I
(27:25):
also used to think that pig Pen was black because
he was so dirty, and I just always thought and
then not only did I think it was dirt the
way they represented pig Pan, I thought it was must
because I never associated black people with being dirty. But
your aunts and your aunt ties always tell you, boy,
you smell out, You smell like outside, y'all need to
(27:47):
put some builder in a y'all kids stank. I was
just like, oh damn, maybe some funky kids. I just
need to. Like pig Pen just reminded me I need
to always take a bath and be fresh. There was
something interesting and Josh, I don't know if you knew
this either. Uh. Well, first off, Josh, did you know
that Franklin has a last name? Um? So, I didn't
(28:09):
know Franklin had last name until more recently. But also,
just real quick off of your Pigpen thing, I think
that by the time I was growing up, I had
there were more black cartoon characters, so I never thought
pig Pen was black. But as far as representation goes,
he did fully represent poor whites like like like that.
(28:33):
For me, when I saw a pig Pit, I was like,
I know a kid like that. I know that he
that he struggling, you know what I mean, And like
nobody we all act like it's not happening, but it's
like he shows up, he's got weirder stories than everybody.
We're all eleven, and he's smoking. It's like, that's Pigpit,
Like how could it not be? He had no last
(28:54):
name either. By the way, Pigpen has no last name,
Schroeder has no last name, and Franklin had no last
name for a long time. But now Franklin's last name
I found out it's Armstrong, Rob Armstrong. Is there any relation?
Is he named after you? That happened? Well, I was
in my office. Uh my cap, my studio working, and
(29:19):
the phone rings and spark he's on the phone. He says, listen,
I'm not gonna keep you on the phone. I just
want you to um help me out with something. You ever,
I wonder why Franklin's got the last name. I said, Uh, well,
I thought Franklin might be his last name. Sometimes. No, person,
(29:43):
that's the last he says, No, no, no, I'm doing
a video. It's going to go strate. The DVD called him.
You're in the Super Bowl Charlie Brown. And in that
video he's a p A announcer and he announces the
kid's first name and last name and then hen now
and they kick a football and throw football or whatever,
and Charlie Brown runs out, and Linus van Pelt runs out,
(30:06):
and Lucy van Pelt runs out. But in the script
you can see that when Franklin is called, there's that
space in there the p A announcer he says, and
now Franklin, And there's a kind of a we awkward
like you go, you know kind of he said, that's
not that's not cool, right. How would you feel if
(30:27):
the p announcer says, and now Franklin arm Strong runs down.
How would you feel about that? I said, uh, well,
you're not thinking about putting my name in your video?
He said, no, no no, no, I'm thinking about changing his
name to your name from now on. There are a
(30:48):
few hard to believe moments in my life, and I
already talked about one. That's the other one. The other
ones are awful things, but great this is this is
basically like if you went over to Eddie Murphy's house
and then Eddie Murphy was like, I'm thinking of changing
my last name to Johnson exactly, I'm Eddie Johnson. Then
(31:09):
he always have to wonder. It's like should I quit now? Then?
Like should I? Like should I stop because I've done
it everything? Yeah, this is the wild I mean, first
it was the it was the advice with it, like, hey,
don't let those sun do you make sure that like
honestly that like that story is already like perfect and amazing,
(31:30):
and in say, but apartment wishes. It even went further
like he he just put a pistol all the desk.
It was like, I remember to keep that thingg on you,
like just like Paul Schultz is actually like and it's safe,
thug and nobody do He's like about my money and
I'm about my time. Josh, what were your favorite did
you have? Because I think what Rob is presented to
(31:51):
me is it's made me reflect this. So I've been
sitting here thinking the whole time and even telling these
stories and I'm like, well, damn, did any black character
do that to me? Did any black character make me feel?
And I got and I got to tow from my
ch other. I want to hear yours first. So there
are any black characters. Theyn't have to be kom a strip.
(32:12):
Let's just go full television animation as well. Okay. I
love the Proud Family growing up, and so a lot
of characters on Proud Family, like Sugar Baba, everybody. I
felt bad for the dad, Like, like, honestly, the dad
and Proud Family, they gave it to him too hard
because he's catching it from all angles. Like even as
a kid, I was watching a Proud Family and I
(32:33):
was like, this is why Dad's don't stay. This is
like he got look at what he has to deal with.
He got Sugar Baba, he got his wife, he got
the kids, he got other kids coming over, these weird
kids coming over. It's like why would you sign up
for this life? Uh? The other one I loved, um
Black Panther. I'm not gonna lie. A part of me
and this is like, you know, like when you're a
(32:55):
teenager and you're like real, like I don't know if
I can speak for two of you, but sometimes in
your teagers, you're already rebellious. So then you get a
little militant, like you get a little like ohh, and
then you will start learning like American history, you get
mad at everything. A part of me was like, like
I know that the story story we saw in Black
Panther was written from Black Panther, But if part of
(33:17):
me was like full kill Monger, Like I was like,
man kill Manger just right, all right? So how about
how about we blow up everything? Like I think that yeah,
because I'm like reading complex as a teenager, which is
already niche, and then and then I'm coming across characters
who were supposed to be crazy, but then I'm like
they might just be correct, you know. Because also when
(33:40):
you're a black kid, you have to make characters black sometimes,
so like when you're a black kid, any character that
doesn't have peach or pink skin is black. So Piccolo
from Dragon ball Z Black fanos black like like everybody
that is not white is black and a black kid's
when they're coming up reading comments, he's just nailed one
(34:03):
of my people that I was about to name, Panthro
from the ThunderCats. Yeah, he's blue. That was my dog
because he was like the leader. He was very wise
and you know he was always fixing Ship. You know,
Panthro was always the repair man of all the ThunderCats.
(34:25):
Panther had those shoulders too. Yeah, it's just deep vote line. Oh,
you shouldn't be doing that like a like a living ancestor.
It's the code of the ThunderCats that it's a stupid code. No,
the code that served us well for centurists. And the
other one was roadblocked from g I Joe. But now
(34:45):
that I'm older and I looked back at it, they
was always kind of making him rhyme when he talked
and Ship it was it was it was almost gibet. Uh,
what's it to you, Jack, I'm hungry, I'm a gourmet
and the name's not Jacket's roadblock. I'm with g I Joe.
It wasn't quite but it was close to job and
(35:09):
I'm like I don't know if this was the right
thing to influence me. Surprisingly though, growing up like and
this is me not trying to start any comic beef.
For whatever reason, fat Albert did not connect with me.
And I don't know if it was the music, like
I'm not a dancer, Like, I don't know what it was,
(35:30):
but like my my older cousins, they loved it. Fat
Albert was was their thing. I don't know if Ian.
You know, I'm forty two, so I graduated high school
ninety six, so by the time I caught fat Albert,
it was kind of on the back end of it,
and maybe even syndication here and there. So I don't
know if it was because the music wasn't over my
error or what, but that was the one I just
(35:52):
I could never like I would watch What's Happened, like
I would watch all the black Live sitcoms, but when
fat Albert came on, I was like, he's trying to
go out? So what a what an tag? First of all,
the no, no, no, no, I'm just saying, think about
if you're like, if the creator is listening, that's so
funny because it's like you're already a kid is a cartoon,
(36:16):
and when their cartoon comes all, you're like, I think
I need some exercise. I loved the fat Outbret. You guys,
I was real into fat Out. I was so into
fat Outbret. I painted a giant mural my first time
painting a mural in my bedroom. It was it was,
you know, it was five and a half whatever I
could reach. It was five and halfy tall, big fat belly.
I love fat Our. It's uh, it's so awful, like
(36:39):
the legacy of fat Atburat so Tarnag I was. I was.
I'm a Philly dude. That cartoon was set in Philadelphia.
Bil Kazi was a Philly due. I mean he still is,
still was a Philly dude. Yeah, legendary you know cartoon.
It was just I don't know. They started dancing Josh
and I was like, oh no, how to dance? Girls
(36:59):
don't like me. Where's my baseball? But I'm just saying, okay.
My only perspective that I'm coming from is like, since
it's a cartoon that you're a kid, it's like, let's
let's PROTEI for a second. Fount Albert was a serial
or a candy and then somebody put it from you
or you were like, you know what, I should eat
my vegetables. It's like it's the complete opposite of how
(37:20):
kids are supposed to respond to those things. And so
that's why it's killing me that you watched it and
you even saw what you saw the theme song and
you were like, um, let me do some callisthetics, just
like big words for a little kid to just I
think I need some pull ups in my life or something.
We'll be come back, Rob. I want to talk to
you about the inspiration that you try to put into
(37:42):
your characters in the way that you try to influence well,
you know, the better question is how much of it
is overt versus covert influencing? Uh in the content that
you create with jump Start and we're gonna talk a
little bit about the book. This is beyond the scenes.
We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you
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Fox News Podcasts Network. The Fox News Rundown the contrast
to perspectives you won't hear anywhere else, your daily dose
of news twice a day, going farre beyond the headlines,
(39:06):
tamping into the massive reporting resources of Fox News to
provide a full picture of the news of the day.
I'm I'm Maria Barto Romeo, I'm Brian Killmade and this
is the Fox News Rundown. Follow the Fox News Rundown
on Spotify. Today, we have been talking about black cartoon
(39:29):
characters and Franklin, who was the first black Do we know? What?
Do we even? Was? Franklin from the west side or
the south side. Did Charles Schultz, Rob did he get
that beat into Franklin's backstory? Two parent homes, single parent home,
and Peanuts. They all come from a kind of murky
(39:50):
parent home. But Franklin, unlike the other characters, talks about
his grandfather. He quotes his grandfather a lot. Franklin said
to Charlie Brown, my grandfather fought um Fort in Vietnam,
so you know you went away for a long time.
And Charlie brownson, my dad, my grand my dad's a barber.
(40:13):
He fought in the war. But I don't know what
you want has no idea. No, he has no idea.
Parents go to father Like that's major, not enough. So
Harrods are Harris, your parents are parents. And Peanuts they're like,
(40:35):
you know, want want want, want want, I think how Yeah,
Charlie has a has a conversation with Franklin's like, listen,
I have an agreement at my house. I don't talk
to them and they don't talk to me. Okay, we
eat at the same time and we stay out of
each other's business, all right. So Rob, let's talk a
(40:59):
little bit it about jump Start, and let's talk about
the book what's interesting about Jump Start to me is
the level in which you choose intentionally at times to
bathe the characters and positivity and humor and positivity. You're
not using what was me or home drum or you know,
(41:22):
like as to use peanuts as an analogy snatching the
football away from someone and you know, and denying the
character of the reward like you had. You had a
strip with the kids just want to spend time with dad.
Dad just got home and Dad is like, get off me.
I just need to breathe. And it's just the kids
waiting to hug their father, And I'm like that's so touching, Like, like,
(41:48):
what are the storylines that you're trying to draw to
with jump Start? Because it really does leave you feeling
good and better about the world. More often than not,
it's a subversive attempt to address a very hot topic
in the black community. Rather than tell people, Um, I'm
(42:11):
not this, you're that's a misperception, that's a misconception, that's racist,
that stereotyped set of telling them that jump Starts sneaks
in a different door with a lot of things to
refute that Joe is um desperate to spend time with
(42:32):
his kids and goes out of his way to be entertaining.
He's got a ritual with his twins with the sock
puppet called the sock Ness Monster in the bathtub and
all that. He's just one of these dads that would
spend all his free time with his kids if he could.
His wife and his kids. He's desperately in love with
his wife. Marcy is his girl. You know, Joe doesn't
have a fling affairs and all this. He doesn't look
(42:53):
at that many a great special edition series, though the
Jump Start Side Chick run like a special Tinna. Don't
let me tell you what to do, but you know,
keep talking. I was warned a long time ago someone
suggests to you to have one of your characters run
off with that girl from the office. Don't, don't. Don't
(43:14):
listen to him. Roy. I will take it under advice,
and I take everything under advisement. I never say never,
but I wanna you, guys, here's the thing. People think
I came up like that like my characters. People think
I have a nuclear family that I was raised with
a mom and a dad and all that, or I
(43:34):
have a lot of brothers like Marcy's got twelve stepbrothers,
one place in the NFL, the huge to our giants.
You know, one is eight tall. He teaches kindergarten. He
wants a pastor and wants a fireman, and all of
that is made up for the sake of presenting something
other than what people are expecting to see. I'm just
(43:56):
trying to stun the reader sometimes and have them inc wow,
that's I never saw that. You never saw that coming.
And I want to do it in a way that
it's charming. I want to make people think twice before
being bigg at it. Calling people racist is tricky. Racism
isn't what people might think it is. Racism is awful.
(44:18):
It's someone deliberately holding you back, impeding your progress, hurting
you politically, coming up with bullshit to arrest you with
and to stick on you. And like Biggert Trito is
is more pervasive kind of a narrow mindedness that affects us.
That's almost everyone. And I want my black reader also
(44:41):
to rejump start and feel like they're seeing something new
that they've never seen before. It's not like the Cosby Show.
It's not like that Joe was an actual cop. Like
Joe has been shot like it has been shot by
joy riders, black kids in the car all that. Like
he's just out there doing police work, you know what
I mean. So when all this police stuff happened and
(45:02):
cops got vilified, Joe didn't get vilified. My My profile
was elevated during BLM like cops shows were taken off
television and my profile went boom because I do a
character driven work, not a circumstance driven work, not a
(45:24):
not a I'm not going to comment on the newspaper today.
These are people to my readers. They seem to be
going through life, love and disappointment, and they seem to
be redemptive. They just keep loving each other and it
was around them no matter what, and that can help
(45:44):
influence a lot of social good. Josh, what is it
about stand up? Or maybe you disagree with me on this,
but Rob makes a good case for the repetitive nuance
of humanizing characters, thus eventually influencing of views. Right, comedy
we don't have that luxury in most instances. You have
(46:06):
an hour in any market on TV, you have an hour.
Do you think comedy can be an influence for social
good or because the nature of our performance genre we
don't get the luxury of that nuance all the time.
I think, I think you just have to make sure
that that's how you come off. I think that when
(46:28):
when it's you as an individual, you become something more
than just checking boxes. When when you speak and if
people get to know you, I mean one of the
things that comes with its fame. I think that with
a certain amount of fame, people are are seen as
more than just this person who thinks this thing, and
people give them a little bit more of an opportunity
(46:48):
to express a nuanced point. But I think that it's there,
but it's just it's very tough for it to be
that that's same, not just because they are two different mediums,
but I think that would stand up. It is like
easier to twist someone's words or to like wilfully misinterpret
(47:10):
what they're trying to say. Um, And I think it
comes with a body of work and just a public
persona that's like laid out over years to give people
the time of day. Yeah, it's Rob, tell us about
the book. Tell us what the book is and where
people can find the book. Brother. So, uh, my newest
(47:32):
book it is called on a Roll And I'm so
like it's just an honor honestly, because this is the
only thirty year treasury by black cartoonists in history. It's
the first one like you know, you see calvinet Hobbs
books and the Foreside books. This is all jumps thought, brother,
and it's got more than just comic strips in it.
(47:53):
It's got it's got paintings I've done. It's got it
is that's my desk, that's this right, and it's got
five hundred strips that I felt were my best work,
my best best representation of how three years have gone.
And I know you'll like it. I know you're like,
(48:13):
anyone could be the collection I think you just gave me.
You know what will be? You know e activity for
me in the five year old, he's getting decent with
the reading. He is interested in humor. I try not
to encourage it, but I will expose him to anything
he shows interested. So instead of having him laugh at
(48:36):
Garfield and then he'll grow up. Just wanted to eat
lasagna all the time, respectfully, Jim Davids, no disrespect to
Garfield Garfield. I ride with Garfield Garfield and friends every
Saturday morning in the nineties that was my ship. Uh,
it's all love, so we done. What would be wild
is if Jim Davis was a thug too. So it's
like they both have like a low key thing that
(48:56):
nobody knew about. Like and like Jim David, stay ready,
he'd be listening for anybody that breaks him up. He
is why Charles Schultz put the gut all the desk
goes like keep that thing. Are you all right? You
never know? You never know? Well, thank you so much, uh, Rob,
(49:18):
the book is on a roll, a jump start treasury,
Rob Armstrong, thank you so much for coming beyond the
scenes with us. Josh Johnson as always, Thank you, get sir.
Are you you back out on the road. I guess not.
We're back in studio, so that's gotta work now. Yeah.
If you're asking about dates that have to promote your
your correct I do not have that that, Betty. Right now,
(49:44):
I've all the road with Trevor, so whatever his dates are,
you can see me open up for him. But that's
about it. Within you straight then. Thank you so much, Rob,
Thank you so much, Josh. That's all the time we
have for today. I wish we had more time. Man,
this is this is history. I would, because you know
the next story from you about Charles Schultz was gonna
be about his private lear Jetty probably owned three planets,
(50:07):
all that off that peanuts money. Look, hopefully we've taken
you beyond the scenes. Let's see you next week. Are
you enjoying yourself? Well? If you are, you can do
the podcast things liking and subscribing and leave a nice
little comments. When you say how smooth my voice is,
(50:28):
make sure you add that in the review smooth boys.
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