Why Are Restaurants Understaffed? - Beyond the Scenes featuring Padma Lakshmi

Roy Wood Jr. sits down with Padma Lakshmi and The Daily Show staffers Madeleine Kuhns and Stephanie O. to discuss why restaurant workers aren't running back to the industry. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ford Motor Company is committed to moving forward together with
new all electric vehicles that offer inefficient and exhilarating driving experience.
Don't be last to join us on the road of
new electric vehicles as we redefine what electric can do.
Ford is going above and beyond to not only create
the smartest, most connected e vs and technology, but to
make sure that customers are well educated on how to

(00:21):
move forward with electric energy. Some benefits of driving all
electric include saving money annually on gas and zero vehicle
emissions for Customers will also have easy and simple access
to charge, whether you charge at home with the overnight
plug in Ford Mobile charger or on the road at
one of the nineteen thousand, five hundred charging stations of
the Blue Oval Charge Network. Journey into the future with

(00:44):
Ford's line up of electric vehicles with many affordable options
to choose from. Head over to Ford dot com to
learn more. Built for proud, Ford Motor Company is committed
to moving forward together with new all electric vehicles that
offer an efficient and exhilarating driving experience. Ford is going
above and beyond to not only create the smartest, most

(01:05):
connected evis and technology, but to make sure that customers
are well educated on how to move forward with electric energy.
Ford customers will also have easy and simple access to charge,
whether you charge at home with the overnight plug in
Ford Mobile charger or on the road. Journey into the
future with Ford's lineup of electric vehicles with many affordable

(01:29):
options to choose from. Head over to Ford dot com
to learn more. Built Forward Proud. Hey, what's up with
Roywood Jr. Now it's time to go beyond the scenes.
How can I explain this podcast? You know when you

(01:50):
go to a restaurant and you go there and you
get the meal and it's a wonderful meal, and then
at the front counter as you're leaving, to have that
little bowl of peppermints or those little degree chocolate, the
chocolate that tastes like a man. They got that right,
and you grab on it those or a toothpick on
the way out the door. That's what this podcast is.
This podcast is the daily shows Toothpick and Peppermint. You

(02:12):
got the regular daily show and then you have us
here going beyond the scenes, which is exactly what we're
about to do this week. Today we're talking about why
restaurant workers are not running back to their jobs and
some of the issues within their industry. Here's the clip.
The pandemic gave restaurant workers a chance to reinvent themselves,
choosing to leave for what they believe are better situations

(02:33):
following pandemic shutdowns when workers have been forced them to
overdrive coronavirus exposing industry flaws. Restaurant workers are considered essential workers,
but we're not treated like essential workers. There's definitely issues
with wages. I think there's issues with childcare. I think
there's in issues with benefits, health insurance. You're having worked
like fifty plus hours a week and it's just it's

(02:54):
still not enough to pay your bills and to be
able to take care of your family and people. It
makes complete sense that restaurant workers on looking for better jobs,
right because these are tough jobs. They're on their feet
all day, they take care of everyone, they pretend not
to hear when you guys are breaking up at the table,
and after all of that, they have to rely on tips.
I mean, you know a job isn't paying enough when

(03:15):
every meal ends with a mini go fund me. Later,
we're gonna be joined by two Daily Show staffers who
helped bring this segment to light on the show. But
first it's my pleasure to welcome Podma loksh Me onto
the program. And you know Podma, her ear is to
the street. If it's anybody knows who knows what chefs
and restaurant tours are going through right now, it's Podma.

(03:36):
She's the creator and host of Hulu's Taste the Nation.
She's the host and executive producer of Bravo's Top Chef.
That's an Emmy winning program, by the way. She's also
most recently a published children's author, Tomatoes for Nila. We're
gonna talk to her a little bit about that. She's
also a best selling Arthur You know her from her
previous books, her memoir Love Lost in What We Ate

(03:58):
and The Cyclopedia of Spices and Herbs Potma, first of all,
thank you for being here. Thank you for going beyond
the scenes with me. I hope I didn't share too
much in the introduction, but I think it's important for
people to know that you're not just hosting and executive
producing and creating opportunities for marginalized communities, but also you

(04:19):
do a dope ass comedy show benefit fundraiser that sometimes
you booked me on and I'm very appreciative of that
as well, in addition to the you know, children's books
and best selling, you know, authorship and all of that stuff.
Thank you. I love having you on our comedy shows.
You are always one of the highlights, even for the
digital one, which you know, it was a hitting nous

(04:40):
and everybody was like trying to do something good. Yours
was so fucking funny. I laughed my ass up. I
was like, thank you with Junior, who always knocks it
out of the park. So it is I who am
privileged to have you on my little comedy show, sir.
And I'm gonna play that snippet back for my mother,
who always has critiques for my jokes. She loves taste
the Nation. And now on this particular episode, you know

(05:02):
we're talking about, you know, the way COVID is kind
of really torn apart. A lot of the restaurant industry
and the workers that are still there are dealing with
all types of wage issues, mistreatment from customers. You are
someone that is often in conversation with a lot of
chefs that run these types of establishments. In your opinion,

(05:23):
right now, what is the biggest what is what are
some of the bigger issues facing the restaurant industry. I
think labor is a huge issue. It's not as easy
as people think to make a profit in the restaurant business.
To begin with. At the best of times, the margins
are incredibly low, and most restaurants are paying the invoices

(05:47):
from forty five days ago with the money they're making
this week. And so you can see how almost instantaneously
a restaurant would be behind if they didn't have deep
pockets or really great investors who could afford to float them,
because all you have to do is be shut down

(06:08):
for a week or two in order to be in debt.
And what people don't understand is that in order to
offer you a menu of even just ten items and
five apps, appetizers and three desserts, which doesn't seem like
a lot, right, um, they have to have all those
groceries ready so that when you decide between the filet

(06:30):
mignon and the chicken fricacy, they don't know what you're
gonna pick. They have to have everything ready to make
all of those things, and those things are perishable, so
there are so many material costs aside from the fixed
costs of restaurants just to run um in a positive,

(06:52):
thriving economy. One of the reasons is because you know,
the labor system in restaurant is really messed up. First
of all, it's manual labors. It's very grilling work. You know,
whether your server on the floor, or you're a dishwasher,
or you are a sous chef or just a line cook,

(07:13):
all of it is difficult. The hours are terrible, which
is another reason, not the only reason, that it really
discourages women from taking leadership positions. You know, it's hard
to have a family and be in the restaurant business.
I do believe that restaurants will have to rethink how
they do business. You know, a few years ago, Danny

(07:36):
Meyer tried to raise his prices a little bit in
order not to have the whole tipping situation, and you know,
people really resisted that from both sides of the restaurant,
both the customers as well as some of the waite staff,
because not everybody shares their tips and things like that.
So it's really really hard, and beyond the restaurant industry

(07:59):
right now, what I am hearing is that everybody is
having trouble finding help because nobody is really willing to
put themselves on the line for what, you know, mere
handful of dollars an hour if they're lucky. You can't
give bye on that. You can't buy a sandwich at

(08:20):
the same place your hocken sandwiches, you know, with what
you get paid. I mean, I know, it's not just restaurants.
It's even fast casual places that are serving ice cream
or boba. You know, these kind of high turnover places
where you know, in the summer they were able to
get by with um with with teenage help. There's so much.

(08:45):
The other thing that I think that people forget about
with this job is that food service, to a large degree,
it was already am I thinking on the border and
I was a server for four or five years. Golden
Corral shown these hello basking offense as well, but it
was already borderlining on being thankless. And now it is
for sure a thankless job. And I've seen you know,

(09:08):
you've seen the stuff on social media with the owners
basically putting signs in the window at their establishments. Hey,
before you come in here, just know with short staff,
shut your mouth with doing the best we can. So
how a restaurant owners able to balance being fair and
equitable to their employees while at the same time trying
to meet the customers needs. I think what's going on

(09:28):
also is that the whole economy is down and a
lot of people are out of work, so they don't
have as much disposable income to go out to eat.
And then when they do go out to eat, they
want more than ever they always did, but now they
want even more value for their dollar. So you know,
they want the cheapest pizza, the biggest size, the most

(09:52):
amount of toppings, and they want it all with a smile,
and and and they want it fast. Americans are conditioned
and to want especially their food items. It's really weird.
They're not willing to pay more for quality food. That's
why I want to and they want it fast. They
want to achieve. Milk needs to be much more than

(10:14):
it is, otherwise you're going to get all this milk
with all these antibiotics and this factory farming. You know,
the customer decides. And I always try and educate people
who don't understand the food business to say, you know, really,
do you want that extra dollar fifty off of your pizza?

(10:35):
If you know that the person making that pizza. Can't
even send his kid to the doctor, Like you don't
want that? Come on now, you know, um, pay a
couple more dollars for your food, Like it's your body
is precious, you want to put good food in it.
I really wish that there was a larger conversation in
this country just about portion size. Like I'm at a

(10:56):
point now where if you send me too much food,
I get annoyed. I'm like, who is eating this much
of Like it's more for the show and the presentation
of it, but I'm still going to take some of
this home and probably not even eat it there. Like,
I think the average person who's never worked food service
doesn't understand everything that you've reticulated thus far. How do

(11:17):
we get people to better understand the inner workings of
the economics of all of this, Like are members of
the culinary community are they speaking out about this? Like,
how do we get more people because they kind of
understand it? With nurses and doctors, I think they you know,
we went outside and clapped for them at seven o'clock.
Remember the good old days of being kind and polite?

(11:39):
Yes I do, Yes, I do. It wasn't that long ago.
How do we build that same bridge. It's hard. I mean,
I think one of the things you have to do
is you have to do you have to follow around
a couple of servers, you know, at different levels of restaurants,
at the top tier, at a family owned restaurant, at
a chain restaurant, at you know, one of these Michel

(12:02):
and starred restaurants, and really spend a day in the
life of a kitchen and a server in a professional
food establishment to really know and to film all of
the food waste. Like when all those plates come back,
you know from the dining room, you should just look
at them, and you should look at them when they
go out. You should look at them when you just
have the camera pan in and out. You guys should

(12:23):
do it on the Dayer show. It's really it's crazy
how much food wasted it there is. You know, two
questions before we go to the break. Number one, let's
talk a little bit about women's equity in the restaurant industry.
And you know, we talk about inclusion in the larger conversation.
And you know, ever since we've been having a dialogue

(12:44):
in this moment, in this unprecedented time, what are some
flat out black and white things that can happen in
the restaurant industry to make it more equitable for women workers. Yeah,
we're all conscious now, but you know we're conscious in
our speech. I don't know if we're if we're conscious
yet in our actions. Well, I'll tell you one thing.
First of all, there needs to be a better division

(13:07):
of labor just in the hours. You know, you can't
because restaurants are busy, when the whole world is at
meal time. You need to share the hours more equitably.
The person who is distributing the hours to all the
employees is usually a man, because they're usually a person
of power at that restaurant. You know, even all these

(13:30):
beautiful restaurants, these fancy restaurants in New York, often they'll
have a male, a white male chef at the head.
But you go and you look into any kitchen in
any of these restaurants, and you will see that the
whole kitchen is brown or black, okay, for there's and
they come in waves like for a long time they
were Mexican, then they were Bungladeshi, then they were Nigerian,

(13:55):
you know. So so they're always immigrants and the women
often get the shaft because again it is manual labor.
So women do get discriminated against because they are automatically
assumed not physically qualified to do the manual labor of

(14:16):
of kitchen work. But honestly, on top chef, when you
once in a while you'll hear me say that a
dish is so delicious and so beautiful and presentation that
it's almost feminine, I mean that in a compliment, you know,
as a compliment, because it is true that women have
more sensitive palates than men do. Um. And while yes,

(14:37):
men have broot strength, it is also true that women
have more endurance and tire less or tire later. Um.
So I think that the first order of business is
to look at the hours and make the hours a
lot more family friendly for both men and women in

(14:58):
the kitchen. And the other is to make sure that
the division of those hours, who's getting those hours, who's
getting the busy shifts, so they can you know, make
the most tips or whatever as as service staff is
also being distributed equitably. And you know a lot of
a lot of big restauranturs are also giving family time leave. Um.

(15:20):
And you do have kitchens that are you know, also
completely run by women. I don't know if it still
is now, but I know up until a couple of
years ago. You know, um Cosme in New York was
all female run kitchens, So it is possible it is happening,
but it has been a real old boys club. Um,

(15:41):
no joke. Like there is no industry other than maybe
the military, that is more male dominated than the food industry.
And yet most of the food in the world is
prepared by women. It's only the professional food world that
is dominated by Then what can a food loving person

(16:04):
like me do to help other than being at tipper?
What can I do? What can I do? Like do
I order more food and my more kind? Like I've
always weird now when I go to restaurants now post
COVID where I give a perfect example. I was just
in San Francisco. I took myself up for breakfast on

(16:24):
a Saturday morning, and I think on Saturday mornings to
read the paper, and you know, I don't read the
paper and enjoy my coffee after my meal. And then
I look up and there's like there's got to be
at least fifteen people waiting on the table, and I'm like,
oh my god, I can't sit here anymore like the
old days, I have to get the hell out of here.
Like does that help eat as fast as possible to

(16:46):
increase table turnover? How can us the food consumer? What
can we do to help restaurant workers just to make
their experience better? Between now and clearly a lot of
what you're talking about what needs blaws? So between now
and the laws, what can we do? We really do
need laws? Um, I think you're doing great first of

(17:07):
all by tipping as much as you are. That is
really generous. I think you know understanding that people are
staffed very poorly right now. Um, being clear, you know
one thing? I mean I was a server too when
I was in school, and I think it's a great
job for everyone. It teaches you such life skills and

(17:29):
patients and empathy. I think everyone should have a job
in the service industry at least for six months or
a year of their lives as a young person, because
it teaches you a lot of humility, you know. Um,
I used to working at pizzeria and there was a
guy who came in every Monday and he would pay
me in quarter roles and dime roles and stuff, and

(17:49):
he always came alone. It's a big, large white man.
He ordered a large pizza and a salad and a
diet coke um, and that pizza had everything but the
kitchen sink in it, I remember. And he would always
pay and I'd be like, oh God, here we go again.
I'll be cashing out at the end of the night.
I couldn't even keep his chips in my apron because

(18:13):
they would just weigh me down. So so you know,
forget the coins. Um if you have them, uh tip,
well make your reservation and keep it. And yes, you know, don't.
Also do not go with five people and give them
four credit cards. Figure that shit out on your own
before you go and say all right, who's gonna pay?

(18:34):
Who has to go to the A t M. Because
you're just creating havoc. He's gonna have to divide that
stuff run four credit cards. It's insane and stupid. And
I think all those little things are are what you
know you can do as a consumer. And also, yes,
don't stay there for two hours or if you do,
just you know, there is no harm in sending a

(18:57):
message or or if you speak to someone when you're
making reservations, say listen, I really want a leisurely, um,
slow lunch. When should I come in when you're not
that busy? I don't want to stress you out. How
cool would that be if you did that? Because also, ps,
the experience would be better for you because the restaurant
wouldn't be as crowded, if your server would have more
bandwidth to pay attention to you. You know, all of

(19:19):
those things you can ask and find out. Restaurants are
more than happy to give you that information. Well, you
have given me more than enough of your time. I
Taste the Nation Holiday edition comes back to Hulu on
November fourth. If I'm not mistaken, and you have a
children's book, I want to hear about that. Tomatoes for Nila. Yes,

(19:43):
Tomatoes for Nila just came out. This is based on
a story I used to tell my daughter about when
fruits and vegetables grew in what season, because it just
occurred to me. If your kid doesn't live near um,
you know, an orchard or a farm, they don't know
when anything grows. Because in our land of plenty, everything

(20:06):
is always available because it gets flown in or whatever.
And I wanted her to have a connection to mother nature,
understand that we should only eat certain fruits and vegetables
when they're in season, not only because they're more tasty,
but because they're better for you. The book is all
about that. And the characters have brown skin because when

(20:27):
I was growing up and when I first was buying
books for my daughter, all the book has just had
white people in it. And you know, I turned out okay.
But it's also nice to see all different kinds of
skin colors and complexions in children's book characters, and so um,
this is all. This book is also for all the

(20:48):
brown folks out there who are trying to show their
kids that there's more than one kind of ideal um
in narrative for children. Well, Tomatoes for Nila is on bookshell.
Now until you have an episode of Top Chef where
you allow chefs to just only make hot dogs, I
guess I'll have to wait to see you at another

(21:09):
comedy show or another comedy benefit. You are always welcome
on any of my sets anytime. Just let me know.
And as soon as you know all these different viruses
and variants go away, we'll do another comedy show and
you will be our first invite. Rest assured, well, I
love your old friend. Very good to see you again.

(21:29):
Thank you so much for going beyond the scenes with me.
Take care of Roid, be well, be safe. Thank you
for having me take care. After the break, We're going
to go beyond the scenes with the Daily Show producer
and researcher who had a hand in creating this segment.
We're talking about restaurant workers and why they are not
coming back to work. Will y'all let come back to work? Please?

(21:52):
Beyond the scenes. Ford Motor Company is committed to leading
an innovation with its products and services, but an innovative
future requires future innovators. We learned from the past, take
action in the present and impact the future. For An
honors African Americans who've made significant contributions in science, tech, engineering,

(22:12):
and math. For It is working towards empowering black youth
to continue innovating within these fields and giving things to
individuals who have helped for create automotive icons like the
Bronco SUV and Thunderbird. Ford also wants to highlight their
employees who have advanced to titles like Chief Technology Officer,
assumed leadership roles like chair of Michigan's Black Leadership Advisory Council,

(22:35):
and graduated from similar programs like those that Ford is
proud to sponsor, including the Lab Drawer and in a CMME,
the National Action Council for Minorities and Engineering, which helped
build a community of leadership throughout these fields. Our purpose
is to help build a better world where every person
is free to move and pursue their dreams. Forward pays

(22:55):
tribute to Black history, are shared present, and an equitable
future for all built Ford Proud. Ford Motor Company is
committed to moving forward together with new all electric vehicles
that offer an efficient and exhilarating driving experience. Don't be
the last to join us on the road of new
electric vehicles. As we redefine what electric can do. Ford

(23:19):
is going above and beyond to not only create the smartest,
most connected e vs and technology, but to make sure
that customers are well educated on how to move forward
with electric energy. Some benefits of driving all electric include
saving money annually on gas and zero vehicle emissions. Ford

(23:39):
customers will also have easy and simple access to charge,
whether you charge at home with the overnight plug in
Ford Mobile charger or on the road at one of
the nineteen thousand, five hundred charging stations of the Blue
Oval Charge network journey into the future with Ford's lineup
of electric vehicle pools with many affordable options to choose from.

(24:03):
Head over to Ford dot com to learn more. Built
Forward Proud Ford Motor Company is committed to leading an
innovation with its products and services, but in innovative future
requires future innovators. We learn from the past, take action
in the present, and impact the future. Ford honors African
Americans who've made significant contributions in science, tech, engineering, and math.

(24:27):
Ford is working towards empowering Black youth to continue innovating
within these fields and giving thanks to individuals who have
helped Forward create automotive icons like the Bronco SUV and Thunderbird.
Ford also wants to highlight their employees who advanced to
titles like Chief Technology Officer, assumed leadership roles like Chair
of Michigan's Black Leadership Advisory Council, and graduated from similar

(24:49):
programs like those that Ford is proud to sponsor, including
the Lab Drawer and n a c m E, the
National Action Council for Minorities and Engineering, which helped build
the community of leadership throughout these old Our purpose is
to help build a better world where every person is
free to move and pursue their dreams. Ford pays tribute
to Black history, are shared present and an equitable future

(25:11):
for all built Ford proud welcome back. Thank you to
pot Malakshmi for that wonderful, wonderful first segment. We want
to go beyond the scenes now and continue to discuss
this topic of restaurant workers. First with Daily Show producer
Madeline Coons. Madeline, how are you doing? Welcome back? I
think this is what your second third time going beyond

(25:33):
but oh my god, second second, hopefully hopefully there's another one.
But good to see you. Okay, your your neck and
neck with c J. Hunt and we're gonna pare you
up now with first timer, she is a researcher and
a wonderful, wonderful stand up comedian Stephanie. Oh hello, I've
been good, are you roy? I have no complaints, no complaints.

(25:55):
It's it's weird when it's somebody you know, but first
time to see him his own zoom in a year. Yeah, yeah,
so weird. So we're but glad to be here all
the same. So before we get into the origins of
where this piece came from and you know, and for
the listeners who are kind of new to the podcast.
I'm sure the die hearts already know this. But you know,
stories come up a lot of different ways. Sometimes it's

(26:17):
something in the news, sometimes it's with personal experience. And
this one, I believe YouTube have experience. YouTube have both
been in the trenches of food service. Oh yeah, absolutely,
all right, Matelie, We'll start with you, Madeline. Run down,
run down your pedigree. What's all your When did you
get medals in? Where did you earn your strengths? So

(26:39):
I started in the service industry when I was sixteen,
and I stayed for about, you know, on and off
for ten years. It's something that you can always go
back to, like it's always there. So I always feel like,
you know, on one hand, you know, you always have
like your service resume, and then maybe you're like doing
something else, but you can always go back to it
and build it. And I did wait your scene for
a long time. I was a for the most part,

(27:01):
I was a barista, so I worked with like in
cafes making coffee, you know, being in there at early
hours in the morning. So um, I'd like to sleep
in now, that's like my favorite thing. I just don't
like to get on the train at four thirty and
like go and open up anything. So I was just like,
I will sleep till noon. I don't feel bad about that,
but yeah, coffee shops for a long time. Stephanie, what

(27:22):
about you? What what's your what food service branch that
you served? Yeah? For me, it started probably, I guess
I would say in college. I worked UM at the
university's catering company. So it was like doing weddings, alumni events,
UM for caring all of it, um, any sort of

(27:45):
convention that was being held at the college I went
to all of the time. He was doing like the
salad fork, the shrip fork, dinner fork. Yeah, just like
so many and personalities and personalities that I was serving
silverware and personalities. That's what I was circle exactly exist

(28:08):
exactly all of that. Yeah, So I started with that,
which was a nightmare. And then when I got out
of college, I worked actually at a movie theater that
served food in the theater, so you had to like
it was just like a full service restaurant, but you
had to take orders while people were like watching a

(28:28):
movie or if they wanted to refill of a drink.
It's like at the climax of the movie, they'd like
pause you to be like, hold one second, let me
just let me just see what's gonna happen in this moment,
and then you get to take the order. So it
was a nightmare, a complete nightmare. Yeah. So in this segment, Madeline,
I'll start with you walk me through the inception. What
were you all hoping to achieve with this segment? Yeah,

(28:52):
So it was something that had been on my mind
for a long time. Also because um and I think
like Padma touched on this really well, like in the
last in the previous part of this where just you know,
there was the restaurant worker industry has just been hit
so hard in the pandemic, and like I think we've
all been very lucky being able to work from home,

(29:13):
and you know for some people, like there was never
like a shutdown. You know a lot of people lost
their jobs, but there never really was a shutdown, and
like kind of seeing how that, you know impacted just
this like like massive industry that I think we all have,
you know, either worked in, but we all rely on.
And so then in May what was happening was there
there was just this you know, businesses were trying to

(29:35):
hire people, but again, like workers didn't want to go
back because like a lot of times it wasn't safe
and they were getting paid a lot, right, we're treating
them like essential workers and they were not. I mean,
they were working as essential workers and we weren't treating
them as So it was just one of these like
news narratives of like big restaurants like McDonald's and Applebe's
like struggling because like they're they're like lazy, entitled workers

(29:59):
are like doing their unemployment checks and like you know,
just like sitting at home, like taking care of their children,
Like how dear them? Like you know, like restaurant workers
were the Goliath and like Applebee's is the David, you know,
And it was just like what is this? So um,
I talked to my boss about it, and he was
just like yeah, Trevor's like already really interested in this,
and so that really made it easy to like kind

(30:21):
of get deeper into the argument and like say, like
what is behind this? Like where does this come from?
And like this is when I knew that the restaurant
industry was struggling. This is what I knew of some
ship going on McDonald's was offering free iPhones, and then
Applebee's was offering free appetizers just for the interview. Just

(30:43):
just come a man, you ain't even gonna work it, dog,
I'll just give you cheese sticks if you just come
and pretend you want to work here. But I was, Okay,
something's going on, And I think, now, is it a
chick fil a that's offering college tuition? Like there's a
couple of spots that are like, will even sing you
to college? Yeah, they're offering all these things, which honestly,
I think they should just be offering the whole time.

(31:06):
But they this is like a perk, And I was like,
health insurance is like a perk of a job, like
it's framed to do. It's like, we're gonna sell you
on this terrible job by giving you benefits you should
have had that wouldn't have made it terrible in the
first place. I would apply that. I would have plan
and get an iPhone though, like I would just I
was like where I was like taking. I was like,
where is that roy, I'll go get an iPhone Depending

(31:27):
on the app I would apply at Applebee's too. It
just depends, you know. I was like, yeah, I'll come in.
What are we counting as an app? That's his link Chicken?
I might, I might, I might apply. Not only would
I go to Applebee's for a free job application appetizer.
I take my girl with me and say it's a dating.
We're dating on a budget. You pretending to need a

(31:49):
job to let's both be quiet, get paid real quick.
Like oh roy back again, Like you just see these
people subjected, people being the service industry workers being sub
actor to so much nasty behavior from customers, and the
videos go viral of people going behind the counter to
make their own burger or some anti mask, or yelling

(32:10):
at a woman who's just enforcing her company's policy, not
her own politics. What are some of the horror stories
that stepping I'll start with you, what are some of
the horror stories that you've had working in the service industry? Oh,
my goodness. Just from the I would say the basic
thing is just the interactions, just microaggressions and interactions cultural microaggressions,

(32:32):
read racism, um, just different things asking me where I'm from,
um to yeah, yeah exactly, but like we're really from
exactly because of course I'm lying. Um. I would also say,
just like attitudes, basic attitudes like you're at a wedding,

(32:53):
You're here to celebrate someone's love. Okay, why is your
attitude so stank? I don't understand Dan, Like what you're
asking me to bring you water? Why do you have
to be so rude about it. I'll bring you water,
like it just doesn't make any sense. Just somebody bringing
your food. You want this Water's gonna be some nails
make might be bleached, might be saliva. Let's I've heard

(33:18):
some things from servers before. I literally have heard a
servers say, uh, this person didn't tip me, I should
have spit in their water. So you would think with
that in the sort of discussion of like what happens
in service industry, sometimes not justifying it, that people would
have better attitudes. But Madeline, I know you've messed up

(33:40):
somebody's macho latte espresso and then they come back in, Hey,
hey woman, you didn't put as the two percent milk.
You give me one percent milk. I asked for eight
pumps of caramel, Like you're just like, why why do
you want that much? Um? Yeah, I mean definitely yes
to what Stephanie is talking about. I think there's just

(34:03):
like people get like drunk on power, Like there's like
the sense of entitlement if you're behind the counter that
they're just like I can treat you like however I want,
And like there's like this I don't know. I kind
of think of it as like I've horror customer horror
stories and I have like employer horror stories. So I
don't know what, like which one do you want? Well,

(34:25):
I think both, because you know, the employers are just
as bad. And this is something we didn't have time
to get into with the PADMA, but you know, there's
definitely a very odd militaristic mindset within food service, like
do whatever it takes, stay all night, and like I

(34:47):
remember what. I give you a perfect example when I
work to go to KRRAL, the busy day was Saturdays
for Florida State home games. So if Florida Stay had
a home game, we opened at seven thirty for breakfast.
The line starts at six, so you have the big
busses and the tour groups coming. Your shift is over
with it too, I'm off it too, I'm off are you?

(35:14):
Your last table is set at one in your section.
You relinquish your section at one, you start sidework at
one thirty. Any table that's still there after two you
can give to the server that inherited your section, or
you can wait patiently for your tip at the break room.
But while you're waiting in that like one thirty to
two o'clock range where you're technically off the floor, a
bus could come and then they'll go, oh, you gotta

(35:37):
get back out on the floor. And if you don't
do that, then you're not a team player. And then
next week you're not working Saturdays at all, and Saturdays
a money day because Florida States in town, so they'll
take you. So it's those little, like you said, those
microaggressions and these little passive I am a shift leader
and I've never been in charge of people, so I'm

(35:57):
gonna hate you. You deal with that type of ship
all the time, like and those are the things that
really made that job hard. I mean, honestly, at least
the customers, you don't know what they're going through. But
you're my coworker, dog. You're supposed to support me like
that to me is more damaging to the morale of

(36:18):
you know, a food worker is having to deal with
bullshit from your boss, or from your supervisor, from you know,
just other coworkers in general, especially from the perspective if
it's like your supervisor, because you're you're not telling me
that I can't leave when my shift is over, but
you're implying that me leaving when my shift is over

(36:40):
is going to prevent me getting those hours next time,
or it's going to prevent making more money exactly, or
it's indicative of my work ethic. When I've worked my shift,
it's over, I should be able to go without feeling
any sort of animus from you or any sort of
guilt for taking my take, reclaiming my time. That's what
I'm doing. I'm reclaiming my time. I shouldn't have to

(37:01):
feel guilty about that, but it is what is. But
with the customer, they're gone. You may never see that
person again. So it's worse when it's your boss, I think.
I definitely think so. Yeah. I think that's a huge
aspect of just like these unwritten rules or like you know,
there are laws, but there's like these spaces between them.
So it's like, well, you had to shift, but you
need to show up. Um, okay, So my my horror

(37:22):
story quickly of just one thing that would happen. And
I think Roy you hit on this really well of
just how long it takes, like when you come in,
Like so like if you open a coffee shop, like
sometimes like people are out there like dawn of the dead,
like you know, like banging on the windows, like they
want coffee and you're just like, we have no coffee yet.
It's my thirty and we open it six and they're like,
can we just come in? And you're like, no, you cannot.

(37:42):
So like on Saturdays, you know, for example, like you'd
be busy all day. You're busy before you open, right,
and so if you're you know, so if you're on
the closing shift and like you know, like you have
to set up things for the people who are coming in, right,
So closing is like a huge Like you have to clean,
like you have to clean the bathrooms, which all cafes
are like public rooms because we don't have bathrooms in
this country. Prep has to be stopping, done and ready clean.

(38:06):
You got a mop, like you have to do everything. Yeah,
we stocked because like there's a new shift coming in
at five thirtyes, so what my old so at this
coffee shop, which I will not name, but my bosses
who owned the coffee shop, they would make us fill
out our time sheets ahead of time, which is called
wage what. Yeah, So they would be like, so it's
gonna take your fifteen minutes to close on Saturday. I
was like, it will never take me because people are

(38:27):
in here until we close. Yes, So like they would
they would like be like, this is how you're going
to work, right, And I was like no, but they
would like make us fill it out. So they were like,
this is how much we want you to work. Those
are the things about food service that people don't know about.
So how do we how do we get people to
know more about? Like what are some other things that

(38:48):
you think people are like, I'll give you one. I
wish that more people knew the amount of work a
server has to do with the end of their shift.
When you're someone like I feel a certain feeling of
when I know I'm someone's last table, like so much
so to the point that I'll even close out, like
if i know I'm gonna be here another fifteen minutes,

(39:09):
Hey man, just bring me the check now, an alcohol
so you can go your free. You don't have an
open check in the dining room that you're waiting on it, Like,
there's just these certain things that add more time to
these people's lives that I just don't think. You know,
a lot of people give a second thought to. Like
I try my best not to go to any fast

(39:32):
food restaurant that's thirty minutes from closing if you're within that,
Like the first thing I'll ask before I order is
what time do you close? Yeah? What are some things, Madeline?
What are some things that you wish the general public
knew about this this life? In this world? I mean,
this is like really hard work. And I know you
guys talked about a little bit, but like, I think
something that drives me crazy is just like the language
that we have around service industry work in general. Like

(39:53):
we call it like low skilled or unskilled. Like we
just have all these like pejorative terms that we use
when we talk about this work. I mean kind of
like when I mentioned like it's like you have two
resumes because people don't recognize the work you do in
the service industry as like legitimate or like something that
is on par with something that you would do in
a different place. And I look, not all skills are transferable.

(40:14):
But like you know, I'll say, like I'm better at
my job that I do now because I worked in
the service industry. Because like definitely like what you were saying.
I was like, you're like a diplomat, you know, you
were a therapist to people, like you were dealing with
a lot of different people and like a very changing,
fast changing environment and you have to think on your feet,
you know, I agree with you. Med's about particularly about

(40:36):
the skill sets that come out of restaurant worker, like
working in the service industry in general. Um, the personalities
alone on the front and the back end, like dealing
with your management and dealing with customers. That will prepare
you to work anywhere in corporate America. Literally you can
work if you can go with the wide array of

(40:57):
crazy personalities. You are prepared to work on Wall Street
like you can do it. You can absolutely do it.
Because half the battle in corporate America our personality. So
you you've already got a really good soft skill. Okay,
not to mention mathematics. You have to people, what's what's
why are you asking me to calculate the TI? I mean,

(41:18):
you know, don't you have a smartphone? Like all of
these little things that are soft skills that can be
applied to other things. People underestimate when they look at
someone's resume and they see that, oh, they worked at McDonald's,
which I think is probably the gates of hell in
terms of service industry. Just one other thing to add
to that too. It's just like, I don't want to
sound like a dictator, but I'm also just like, we

(41:40):
need a law that everyone has to work in the
service industry, like for a year, like like you know,
I mean, like that should be your gap year between
high school and college. Be there for a year. I
think we'd have a lot better policies of people actually
had to be treated by something like Bill. And I
want to like, I want to bind one. You can't
even run for office if you haven't done it. If
you haven't, yeah, make it a requirement like not the military,

(42:02):
mixed service, and just through the requirement. To me, the
two disciplines are food service, food retail or outdoors like
food retailer. Those three will build character beyond your years.
We've covered a lot right here, which leads me to
a question that I want to ask you after the break,

(42:23):
which is what stuff did not make it into this segment.
Don't answer it now because we have to play commercials
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It's the fearless sports talk you've been looking for. With
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(43:53):
of Pennsylvania, you just suck. I'm Jonathan Hutton, joined me,
Paul Kuharski, Chad with Row, and our entire OutKick crew
each weekday sixty on Spotify Today. Now you all were
two of the brain Trust. Uh this segment, So, Madeline,
how much do you think minimum wage plays into Oh

(44:16):
my god, it's like, because with all of the issues
surrounding why workers aren't going back, it could be COVID,
it could be customers want to punch you, but it
also could just be straight up there no benefits. How
much do you think the wage itself and the lack

(44:37):
of you know, a lot of states are still to
thirteen or whatever, still in the two dollar bracket. How
much do you think that plays into a lot of
the issues that the restaurants are having and getting workers
back in the doors. Oh my god, I mean so
many because I know that there's been a push I
know what one failed. But like if you like think
of like think of how much or not how much money,

(44:59):
that is like you can't it's not uh, you know,
we we talk a lot about jobs, but you don't
we talk we spend less time talking about like you know,
like the quality of those jobs. It's like, as long
as you have a job, it's fine. But these are
not I mean, these are just like not living wages
like that that. I mean, these are and I know
that like Trevor had said it in the piece of
just like these are starvation wages, right, these are not.

(45:19):
And you know to your point about like there's you know,
there's this whole range of ages in the restaurant in
service industry. It's just like I think part of what
I found really interesting looking into this piece and like
um researching this piece, you know with staff, was that
you really it felt like a mini like mythbusting of
like what the actual restaurant worker is because like I mean,

(45:42):
it was like there's like fourteen million people currently in
the restaurant industry. It's it's a majority women workforce, Like
you know, half of the moms, they are single mothers.
I think the median age is close to thirty. Like,
these are adults, Like we're not talking about teens, you know,
mowing the lawn or like working at a Sunday you
know ice cream shop to like over the summer. Like,

(46:03):
these are people who this is their job and this
is their career. And the fact that we're not willing
to set a mint like a minimum wage or like
have people like excluded from other like legal protections because
they're in a certain industry is just so wild. And
then that's where we get the people who And I

(46:25):
think that's part of what the servers being paid less
in minimum wage. I think it's part of what feels
the sense of empowerment from a customer who can look
at you and go, well, you're not getting a tip, Mr, Yeah,
I'm gonna went home my tip. What do you think
about that? Way? Who? Like I remember a guy I don't.
I don't know if any of you all have a night.

(46:46):
What's the worst what's the worst tip you've ever coming?
The worst tip? And I was working at Shawnees and
I think I got a dollar on a thirty top.
It was a bus and I think I got like
maybe a dollar and maybe two dollars or whatever like
ever was left. Like let's say the bill was like
one eight, Like the bill was one seventy fourteen, and

(47:07):
they left one eight in cash or or something like that. Right,
But I remember one time feeling so vindicated. We had
a co worker. I can't say which restaurant, but his
name was Glenn. That is his real legal because I
didn't name the restaurant out via he knows right now, Roy.

(47:33):
It was one of those Florida State Saturdays, and fucking
Glenn had like an eight top and they didn't leave
him nothing, and this motherfucker ran. Glenn ran out to
the parking lot on their gass and stood behind the
car while they was trying to back out their parking
space with his hand out, just like this is all

(47:54):
kinds of wrong. This is like every servers in the window, like, Wow,
he really did it because he went out there, held
his hand out and they tipped him. Glenn. I'm really
happy for Glenn. He should have been fired, but he
was just he was such a great server. I just

(48:16):
don't think they could afford to lose him. That's the
other thing that we didn't even have time to get
into is how much people. As a restaurant owner, you
can't really even afford to fire anybody right now. So
you kind of got a little bit like if you
were serving noledge, the time to slap the ship out
of a customer, if you really Yeah, because he's an

(48:39):
analogy for what has happened with these restaurants offering all
these things. He what he did is what what is happening.
It's what's happening now. So he stuck their hand out
and said, pay up, you can do it. They obviously
could tip to go back. Just the thought that I
had on my head to go back to the two

(49:00):
that Mad's was talking about. I just think that's such
an important point because, um, if you think about it,
it's you'd be hard pressed to find places in the
United States where you can get gas for two dollars
and thirteen cents to drive to that job that is
just paying two dollars and thirteen cents an hour. So
I hope that gives people some perspective. And I think
that's the thing that often is forgotten is that by

(49:22):
the customers that people are making to thirteen an hour,
the least you can do is tip yeah, at a
time where you know, people are still pushing for fifteen
an hour, but until that time, minimum wages still that
same funky as seven dollars that has been sent fucking bush.
But that's a conversation for another day, all right. So lastly,

(49:45):
this segment as a whole, as a whole could have
gone a lot of different directions with regards to restaurants,
from the pay structure, to the gender and equality and harassment,
the way immigration and the way immigrants are treated and
illegals and in car to the lack of benefits childcare.
What were some of the things that you hoped there

(50:08):
was room for in the segment that you weren't able
to get to. It's not that we didn't mention this,
but again it's like I think sometimes when we're like
in our department, just like, let's make it a twenty
minute segment, they're like, you cannot do that, like that's
the length of the show. But I you know that
because of because of how women are impacted by the
industry and how many women are in it, like it

(50:28):
would have and especially how much sexual harassment, specifically of
women in the service industry has just skyrocketed during the
pandemic and how they're affected by like things like childcare
of like people can't go back to work because you know,
who's going to watch their kids, so like things like that.
It would have I definitely would have wanted to spend like,

(50:49):
you know, more time on if we would have had
if we would have had the room to to talk
about them, because sexual harassment is so pervasive and I think,
you know, we don't. Again, it goes back into that
entitlement of like, you know, so often servers, like you said,
like they're in it's like they're invisible or they're like
overly visible, right, but they're never people who are just

(51:10):
at their jobs. One of the things that really stuck
out to me when we were researching this piece is
just how often, especially again for female servers, is that
um I would say for the most part, men would
ask them to take their masks off when they're working
so they can see them smile, right, And it's just like,
so you like, if you have to do that to
get your tip, if you have to endanger your life

(51:30):
to get your tip, like you know, that's that's shocking,
you know, it's it's just awful. So yeah, it's just
so it's like, just keep it on, like just but again,
it puts women in an impossible situation in this industry
that is already like already just like rife with you know,
a lot of inequities. So I just need to do

(51:51):
a whole episode of just all the Ship women go
a whole month, a whole year of episodes of just
all this ship, a whole two years. I wish I
had more time to speak with you all about this,

(52:12):
but I think we'll have to stop the discussion here
because uh, I think my food delivery service just arrived
from my food And thank you all for going behind
the scenes with me, ladies, and I can't wait to
have you back on another episode. Thank you. That's all

(52:33):
the time we have for today, but hopefully we've taken
you beyond the scenes. If you like the podcast, rate
and review us, please and review. I'm just rate and
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