Gambler's Fallacy w/ Donal Logue

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies.

Speaker 3 (00:07):
These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done.

Speaker 4 (00:10):
Done, Hello, we are here s I've done this eight

(00:33):
hundred times.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
I can't believe this just happened to me. This is
thats messed up an sv podcast. And I am Lisa Trigger.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
And I'm Kark Gleg and this is our two hundred
and twenty third episode and Lisa is.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Not knowing how the name of the bob what happened.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
I'm looking at the name of the episode we're covering,
and it broke my brain. So I'm looking at our
sheet and I'm like, what's going on here? But I
do know the name of our podcast, and I wear
our merch everywhere like I It is embarrassing because sometime,
like I said, at soul Cycle, people be like, hey,
love the pod.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
And I'm wearing an icy sweatshirt holding.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Do you have a children detective bag? And I'm like,
I need to get out of here.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
No, I love it. And speaking of merch, by the way, everybody,
you have to go see Lisa on tour because she
is selling Did I make it to the fridge, Yeah,
oh you're on my fridge. Baby baby Lisa will be
looking at me on my fridge forever. She's right next
to Honestly, this all ties in perfectly. She's right next
to my magnet that I got from an amazing listener.

(01:34):
That is the woman from It's Isabella Rossolini from Death
becomes her as well as Meryl Street from She Devil.
You're like in between them. Lisa is selling magnets of
her baby Lisa in front of her awl collection and
it's an amazing magnet.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
So you need to go to see her on tour
so that you can buy that.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Thank you so much, because it is a Mythsvah, you
said that, And if you've seen me live, you know
I've been talking about it. The magnets are so heavy.
I'm so so mad at Kara. We've been selling magnets
for the podcast for years. Not a peep, not a peep.
Every club I go to that got the box, they
were like, what the fuck is in there? That's the
heaviest box we've ever got. And it's a small box.
That's what's crazy. It's a small box. That weighs I

(02:14):
would say sixty pounds.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, the box is wild because it is like a
very small box that's just packed with magnets.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
It's so heavy.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
But I don't bring the whole box, like when we
go on tour, I just bring. I usually bring what I.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Think you to be a little more organized than that.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Because the week before I was in Portland, I go, oh,
I should have merch huh. And then I also like,
also people come to see me that haven't seen the specials,
so they're like, what is this, or they someone came
from survival, and so then it's like it's also fully
out of context. It's assuming so much onto the person.

(02:47):
But I just like magnets I buy. I loved our
magnets we sold, and I love Broadway magnets.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah they're so cute. Oh my god, wait what you
just saying?

Speaker 3 (02:59):
That minds me that you saw death becomes her, that
I saw death becomes her, and you told me how
great the merch was.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
And I didn't even go by the merch table. Fuck
I had I had had a little bit of worry.
I bought two pin sets. Okay, they were so too
Maybe I can have one like I I we went
and like I got I had a little bit of
wine before and then I got the like the big
wine there that comes in the little Death Becomes Her,
like cup, You got the cup? Yeah, but I left

(03:26):
it at my friend's house. I was like, you can
have a set, you know, and and I like, I
think I was just a little bit buzzed, and I
didn't go to the fuck Now, I'm so mad I
didn't go to the merch table. But honestly, what what
a wreck I've been telling anyone that will fucking listen.
Death Becomes Her was one of the best musicals I've
seen on Broadway. I usually don't see something I'll be honest,

(03:48):
most of the musicals I've seen, I kind of know
a little bit of the music before I go, Like,
I knew none of the music. I thought the music
was so good. I thought the staging was so good.
I didn't see the main woman that plays the Goldie
Hawn part. I guess she was out that day. But
I saw Megan Hilty and Michelle Williams from I think
Megen Hilty is the main one. No, there's another woman

(04:09):
who's like a Broadway legend that plays the other one.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
But like she was out that day.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
But still the girl who played her was amazing, Like
the understudy was sickening. They were so good, Like I
just loved it. Maybe I was buzzed, but I loved
every second of it.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
No, And as a lover of the movie, I thought
there would be moments of disappointment or confusion or I
don't know, and I felt none of that. But it's
so funny. So I just got my gray covered. And
my hairstylist she loved it. But she her daughter, who's
only like four or six sick. I don't know, ages
are hard, but a child, No, she's six, because she's yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
I'm like remembering where she is in school and reading.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Okay, Anyways, she loved the music, so she actually took
her child, who's seen it now twice, who loved it?

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Who?

Speaker 2 (04:55):
And then she's like, I don't know if I could
show her the movie, because it's true, once you see.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
The musical at my be hard to Yeah, especially as
a child.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Well that's so funny because when I was watching it,
I was like, I wonder if Rosie would like this,
Like I would love to bring Rosie to this.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
And then I loved the set I feel like Rosie
would love the set and the darkness and like the
effects of it all.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
And honestly, I think Oscar might be my Broadway baby.
Like Oscar is always asking me to play Wicked.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Oh, I mean the guy, the little guy who's wearing
a Frozen dress.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, he might be the Broadway might be my musical guy.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Just saying he might be, I'm I know, I'm gonna
make a huge swing here and say he might be.
Like like I was like thinking this summer, I'm going
to be in New York, and I was like, I
should take him to a musical. But I would I
like to say, so something that's not Lion King. I
don't feel the need to see Lion King a second
time and before, But why.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
Don't you just go to theater that's not Broadway that's
geared towards children that are that young, Cause it's like
that's like, ugh, Like I don't know, I've gone to
a bunch of stuff like that, and it's just more
it's straight for the kids.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Like I'd like to go to something that we both enjoy,
you know what I mean. Like if they were doing
Frozen on Broadway, which I think they did, do, Like,
I bet we'd both enjoy that, you know what I mean.
But like I think right now, people let me know
if there's something that you think a four.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Year old is there, like a turtle? Yeah, like I
would maybe six. He might like six because there's no intermission.
I think it was just one.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Act and the pop yeah, the gay pop is and Juliet.
Oh that's right, that's right. Six is like but it
is there's not much plot.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
It's like each girl sings, but he's into dresses and
they do look very yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
They look beautiful. Okay, that's what he likes, beautiful things,
as he likes.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
To say, I feel like six is really beautiful. But
also in death becomes like the sexiness of the dancers.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
Those outfits are so cool. Oh I did.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
I kept saying, look how hot these fucking dancers are,
Like I couldn't believe how hot everyone was.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
I can.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
And of course the guy who plays Ernest, that's an
svulm he is.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Okay, I brought my prom home because I didn't get
a chance.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
We got there like with only a few minutes.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
I usually have more time to like scan my program
and see who everybody is.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
And he's Sex in the City. I'm pretty sure. Yeah,
he's in Sex in the City. He's the guy who
works at Helena Rubinstein who goes down on the women
but doesn't go down on Samantha and she gets him
fired the women's luncheon. So I mostly remember him from
Sex and the City of being the massage therapist.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
Okay, wait, now I'm looking up who this guy is. Oh,
Christopher Cyber. Okay, who is he on SVU?

Speaker 3 (07:30):
I need to know?

Speaker 1 (07:31):
Oh, yeah, I recognize him. Oh my god, totally. I
didn't recgnize him in the musical because you're wearing a
fucking mustache. Well, there was one complaint I had, but
I didn't want to mention.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yes, I wanted to do it. I was. I was
watching the musical going, I wonder what Lisa's complaint is.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
So I just feel like Isabella Rossellini is so sexual
and sexy and powerful, and I think Michelle Williams hit
her notes like sounds incredible, was regal, and hit her
jokes to her too, like the timing was amazing, but
like she was stiff.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
Yes, yes, I just fine.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
I agree because the people that I said that to,
their kind of response was like, but the dancers and
everyone else was so sexy and she just did a
different thing, and I get that, but I just am
really into Isabella Wrestlingi's character, and I was just I
was a little thrown off by just that.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
But that's so minor from a movie I love.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
Well, I agree with what you're saying because that's true,
Like she was kind of just standing there, but that's
like famously, I think she is like the least sort
of charismatic destiny child, I will say, but I thought
her voice kind of covered for it because she sounded amazing,
Like she sounded so good and I don't know, she
has a huge reaction when the curtain opens, and it's

(08:49):
heart like I mean, I but but I agree, Like,
imagine somebody like who takes over for her that has
like the voice and the sexual like like be it,
like you know, vibe.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
I could see that really crushing Tony Orb.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
I did just see a video on my Instagram where
it was like they were performing something at an award
show for Michael Jackson, but Beyonce's obvious. In the middle,
it's Kelly and Michelle, but Michelle's hat falls off and
Kelly what a professional quick on her feet throws her
hat off too, so it doesn't look weird. And I
was like that, bitch, wow, backing up your girl. I
like loved it well because it would have looked weird,

(09:25):
just like I like that on The Fly Present Saturday,
Theater of It.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Okay, Just to bring it all full circle, Chris for Cyber,
the guy who is in death becomes her as earnest.
He is in patrimonial burden with our girl, Geneva Carr,
who we interviewed, and I think she's the He's the
husband of the family like that has the kids that
they're married, like the Dougger family.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Basically, Yeah, it was interesting. Well, it's so funny because
the moment I saw him, I turned to who I
was with and I went SVU and then later looked
at the program. She's like, you were right, and I
was like, well, I never questioned if I was right. Well,
I do have something to say, yes pertaining to Luigi obviously,

(10:14):
Bah Papa Luigi report. I'm not going to do everything
I do want to say, Like news came out about
how there's all these porns made with him and all
this stuff. It's not real. It's Toronto's son. It's the
Daily Mail. It's not one credit the source has done that. Second,
people are despicable that would have been out in the
open immediately. And third it's counter to everything we've heard

(10:35):
about everyone in his life, like it's just not it.
And there's old tweet like that's not his opition. I
don't know, it's just wrong and I'm gonna find that
guy when I'm in Toronto's you better watch out.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
I saw it as a meme.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
I saw it as a meme of like a girl
being like you hear Luigi's in a bunch of pornos,
like searching the computer, you know, like more of like
a he's hot.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
It's just no.

Speaker 5 (10:53):
Now.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
I looked at all the sources. It was like three magazines,
all not real. So I'll Radmax. But it's also just
like it just doesn't that doesn't make sense. But also
what I found out that this is what I really
wanted to talk about, but I knew people would would.
People are sending me a lot of stuff, and I
love that.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
I'm really in the loop. I'm knowing at all.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
But my big thing Karen, who is his attorney, She's incredible.
She was like the da of Manhattan just seems really incredible.
I went to the legal pages reading about the law firm.
They also have like a few lawyers I just wanted
to read. And she was a consultant for Law and order.
Is a consultant for law and order. She might be
a little too busy now I wonder if they're bothering her,

(11:36):
but yeah, kind of exciting consultant for law and order.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Love that love that connection. I knew I loved her
to begin with. So is she's Ditty's lawyer or her husband?

Speaker 3 (11:51):
Is her husband?

Speaker 5 (11:52):
Is?

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (11:53):
I think it would be crazy to do two giant
cases at the same time when it's right, that's true.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
That's true, that would be crazy. But do you think
these two people.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Ever see each other? Like she's representing Luigi, he's representing Diddy.
What is a fucking dinner between them?

Speaker 3 (12:07):
Like?

Speaker 2 (12:07):
I would love to know. I bet they bring work home.
I bt I bet they each have their own office.
I have bet it's a sprawling apartment leather. I think
it reminds me of like I want the green desk
library lamp, you know, like I'm imagining that kind of vibe.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
But it's also kind of like I bet they watched
White Lotus. Yeah, like, does it remind you of like
that guy James Carville and like his wife, like how
they're like the famous Republican Democrat couple. Like she's defending
this guy who like is like a modern day Robinhood
of sorts that people are really like lionizing and like,

(12:43):
and then he's.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
Defending doctor Michael Batten ended up marrying one of like
Casey Anthony's a herne Is and Phil Spector's you know
what I mean, and not marrying dating he left his
wife for this woman.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
So it's like, yeah, it's just like I mean, everybody
deserves a defect.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
That's like what lawyers. Yeah, yeah, lawyers know that everybody
deserves a defense. But I met they don't even talk
about it. I'm shocked.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
She even hyphenated her name to include his, to be honest,
Karen Friedman Agni filo.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Wow, Wow, Well she's amazing.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Of course she's involved with law and order, like lawn
order is the best, so why wouldn't they use the best.
So that's exciting. Well I did, I did you love
it or leave it? Which I could. I never thought
i'd be able to do. And I'm so excited. I
did it, but I talked about Luigi a lot, and
it is upper crust in a way where I'm like,
maybe someone told Karen about it, and I did advocate.
I did advocate, and I was losing some of the

(13:39):
people and John was in a too. But there was
like a row of three gaze that were just like
we were connected in a way that I could not believe.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
That's you could see the three gays.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
Because I always whenever I do love it or leave
it at that theater, I can't see anybody in the audience.
They keep it so dark, so I'm always like, is
this hitting? Like I can never tell.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
No, I had the time in my life and we'll
do some celebri updates. So Jesse Tyler ferguson Modern Family.
I also on an episode of el Sbeth recently. Okay,
so noone else I mentioned it to him. He was like, okay,
but walked in going already watched this, He goes, I
already watched the special.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
Loved it. Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
I told all my friends about it. They've already seen it.
I guess I'm late to the game.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
Oh I go. Jesse Tyler Ferguson you're right on time.
You're right on time, honey.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
But then obviously I'm a bad girl and I'm comfortable
at Dynasty as you are.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
So I'm smoking weed back there. I've been walking on stage.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
I heard him go, oh my god, it smells like
and then he came back out and was like, wow,
it's pretty weedy back there, and like, yeah, I'm actually
going there tomorrow. He was the coolest person I've ever seen.
And then his he walked away and I took told
the I looked at his pr person, I go, what
an angel and she goes, He's my favorite. He's so incredible,

(14:54):
and he was like making little jokes, but he knew
who he was. He wasn't like fake humble where he
doesn't know he's Jesse Tyler Fergus.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yeah, and just.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Was making me laugh and make me feel so good,
and I just like, it just made me really happy.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
I mean, he's that. I love Modern Family. It's a
great show. Oh my gossip, my flag race. He was
a judge on season five. I go, oh my god,
not the best season, are you kidding me?

Speaker 3 (15:16):
Yeah? Whoa he got in there early. Oh I love it, I.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Mean, and then friend of the pod Laura Bananti, posted
about the special and DMed me we DM. I don't
think she remembers she was on our podcast, but I.

Speaker 3 (15:32):
Saw her post about it. She doesn't remember. Well, she
you should have been like, girl, you had a yoga
mat on your head.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
I remember, it's one of our favorite memories. But she
was just so I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe
it dead. So that's amazing. Well night, now, I was
still streaming on Netflix. Everybody, get your butts to the
Netflix to the I know I'm I usually try to
be demure, but I have been way more vocal to strangers.
I told the woman who does my laundry May. She

(15:58):
was like, so, what do you do. You're traveling, you're in,
you're out, And I uh, I said, honey, I'll show
you what I do. Why don't you look at Well
she goes, I'll ask my granddaughter. And I go, well,
how old is she? And she's twenty one?

Speaker 1 (16:09):
So I go, okay, okay, okay, yeah, let's not let's
not go too young.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
Wait.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
I'm actually going to be at Dynasty tomorrow night. Not
that this is a promo, because this is happening. This
episode's coming out after this happens. But I'm opening for
a comedian who I've never heard of but has like
a big social media following.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
And her name is Shannon Fiebler. Oh my, not the
Hoffs who produced my special produced hers.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
Oh okay, yeah yeah yeah, I'm I were tomorrow night
at Dynasty. So yeah, she's like pregnant. So I don't
know if they like wanted a mom or whatever, but
you can bring up the Hoffs. Yeah, okay, we'll do Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:46):
Wait, I can't even believe it.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
That's why I mean, Dinasty is a great venue if
you guys live in La, around La. Their programming is incredible. Yeah,
they're so comedy like performer friendly. I mean, the snacks
in the back alone are you're the best.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
It's like fall of size candy bars.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
First of all, that's where we did our first live
show ever, not counting the one in my backyard.

Speaker 3 (17:06):
That was where we did our first live show ever.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
And they're just like, they're so nice to me when
I go there just to see something, you know what
I mean, Like some venues it's like if you're not
on the lineup, they don't really they're like okay, but
everybody's like always so nice and like what can we get, Like,
I don't know. I love that venue. So shout out
to Dynasty Typewriter. If you live in LA, do check
out their calendar. They're the best. But I went to
New York speaking of like comedy, I was in LA

(17:30):
last week. If we were in LA, we crossed planes.
Our planes high fived on the way past each other.
And well, first of all, a really quick shout out.
I know we already did this, but it was fake
because it was in the time machine. But thank you
to everybody that came to our DC show. We had
such a great time. It was such a fun show,
Like I had a blast and.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Great crowds in DC, and we were happy to be
there because truly, yeah, they are feeling the bleakness pretty hard,
feeling it. But it's like a lot of these people
work in the government and yeahah and even everyone.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yeah, even talking to my friends that live there, I
was like, what's it like to be here? They were like,
it's like it's probably, I mean, it's probably we're all
feeling it. But I think to live in like the
belly of the Beast is like tough, you know, so
they're like everyone we know, Like my friend's like I'm
getting a call every Friday of people getting laid off.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
It's like really really tough.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
So I know it feels so hopeless, and I also
and it is so big, and it's all the news
is bad. I do have a new glimmer of hope,
but I don't know if I'm being a fool. I
think he's gonna start fucking people over faster than we
think that like him, that they're gonna revolt. I think
he's gonna fuck with the rich, the tariff, like, I
think he's gonna crash the economy so bad, and I

(18:41):
think we're all gonna suffer a lot. But I think
he's gonna fuck over his rich friends and his fan
base quicker and they're gonna be angrier into the scar hyena.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
But this is just this morning. But I also don't know.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, the problem is like because you're what you're saying
is pretty much absolutely true, Like that is going to happen,
I feel. But the problem is what I was reading
this morning is that just like the their media, like
the right wing media, is like he's killing it.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
He's crushing so like people I'm talking about, yea, that
are the reason they both looking at the Yeah, and
once we're all fucked and we're not shopping and we
can't you know, the Canada, all this stuff is happening. Yeah,
the things are plummeting whatever, the stocks are plummeting, like
I plummeted. Yeah, I feel like once, I think the

(19:31):
rich people are about to get fucked faster than they thought,
because he truly is a fool, Like he's a bankrupting fool.
He's not smart, like he's a lunatic who actually you know,
they all think like, oh, I'm going to get this
out of him or this or use but like, at
the end of the day, he'll throw them all under
the bus for anything and anybody. And I do feel
like he's gonna fuck them over and even the poor.

(19:53):
They might keep blaming Biden, but eventually, I don't know.
I just think they're all going to get fucked with faster,
Like it seems like there's such immediate consequences to all
this budget cutting and firing. Yeah, but I think that
the hillbilly trash, I think we're gonna get fucked with faster.
But you're right, Media and propaganda and being an occult

(20:16):
is strong and it could take a long time. But
for some reason I had a glimmer of hope. Yeah, yeah,
I mean no, I think that's good to hope. That's
good hope. Look, we have to have hope.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
But anyway, I loved talking about the DC show was amazing,
and thank you for everybody that came out. We loved
you guys, And it was just it was just so fun.
And we got some really funny bracelets. Thank you to
the person who made me a bracelet that says Clank
Family Classic because that really tickled me. But then I
was so I was in New York, and after DC,

(20:45):
I went to New York. So death becomes Her obviously
a huge highlight. And then Monday I kind of went
around with our friend to some different comedy shows. And
I hadn't done like a little bounce around to like
West Village, Brooklyn comedy shows.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
In a minute. It was fun. It was like fun.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
It felt like I was like back in my my
like twenties and early thirties when I was you know,
like just going around doing like four or five shows
a night.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
It was fun. Had a blast. Yeah, where'd you guys, eat,
what else did you do?

Speaker 5 (21:13):
We went?

Speaker 1 (21:13):
We ate at Rosemary's in the Way, which I hadn't
been to before.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
It was good. It was just like in between.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
She had to show at Stonewall and she had to
show at Pete's candy store, so we went in between,
and then I got over. I got to go over
to her house and meet and see Riz. He would
not really give me the time of day. I tried
a couple times and he was not having it. But
that's okay. I met my sister's dog. My sister got
a dog named Betty. You got to meet her dog.
And then I went to New Hampshire and had a
fun little weekend with my.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
What kind of dog is Betty? We could tell you're
not an animal person? Well, you're like the cat didn't
do exactly what I wanted as I walked in, even
though he doesn't know me, and I guess there's a
new dog.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
No.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
I gave Riz a lot of time and then I
just was like really trying to slowly approach him, and
he was looking at me for a lot of it,
but he was he would not approach. The dog is
a rescue a mix, a pit mix. I think, but
she's blind a bigger dog, but she's not that big,
like she's not that big, like she's are they excited? Yeah, yeah,

(22:11):
they love her. I mean, my sister's already like acting
like a mom. She's always like well with Betty and
like I have to take her to her blood work.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
I'm like, oh my gosh, well because I know the
true child this summer, so I wonder if they're gonna
have to just now drive for their vacaate, like they're
gonna not want a vacation in the summer.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
Now, I think that they will because I think like
this summer they weren't going to vacation anyway, Like they'll
come out to they'll come out like and see us
in Connecticut and stuff like that. I don't think this
summer they were gonna do a trip because they did
a huge one last summer. And then by next year,
I think she'll be more tame and calm because she's
still little. She's only like a year and a half old,
and I think that they'll be okay to like leave
her with my brother or something like somebody else that

(22:45):
has a dog, or you know, or his brother has
a dog as well. My brother in law's brother has
a dog, so like, I think that they will. I
don't think this will keep them from traveling forever. But
I never thought my sister would ever have a dog
in a million years. And she's like, can you believe this,
like when she was with the dogs Benji, like your
brother's dog is an influence.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
But also everyone fresh off the beat, Robbie Hoffman and
Gabby Windy, No, I know, and I.

Speaker 3 (23:11):
Can't believe that it's been like two months. It was
a secret.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Oh okay, because I'm like, oh, they got married in Portugal.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
They're in Portugal right now, That's what I thought.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Here was No, they got married in Vegas in January
and they haven't told anybody. And I'm like, I was
just texting with Robbie about Gabby like a couple weeks ago,
and yeah, no, no, leak's there. She wasn't telling me
the big secret. So I think it's so cute. I'm
so happy for them, big big news. But no, I
think my sister got the dog with her husband wanted it,
by the way, to close the loop on that combo,

(23:43):
not because of Benji.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
She just he wanted one. How else was la you
went due to the story how is your camp thing?

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Oh, it was great, it was great. I went to
New Hampshire. My friend lives in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. What
a picturesque little fucking town that is.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
It's also shout out to Vermont where your camp is,
because they fucking said jd Vance do you want to ski?

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Go fuck yourself? Yeah, they bullied J Vance right off
that mountain. The fucking Yeah. New England doesn't fuck around.
It's so funny because I posted the some of them
are montras. My favorite things that they posted inside the
signs they wrote for Vance. One was Advance puts his
cast iron skillet in the dishwasher and the other one
was Vance skis and jeans, and I thought those were
my those were like my favorite ones, so I posted

(24:26):
those and then the Vance puts his in the cast
iron skill and the dishwasher. One of our listeners wrote
was like, that's my high school math teacher. I was like,
the world is so small. I love it, so love
those little states. Loved that, and yeah, New Portsmouth is
like adorable, you know what's crazy?

Speaker 5 (24:42):
Like?

Speaker 1 (24:42):
So Portsmouth had like three or four stores that are
like I don't know what the equivalent of like La
stories maybe like spitfire Girl or something like that. Like
gift stores, like stores where you can buy like little onesies,
magnet socks like whatever, you know, funny books you know that.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
I think, yeah, so many like that, and.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Like there were there were stores like that when I
was younger, but now they all just have swear words
in them. Like now it's just like, oh, you want
to find me, I'm out fucking hiking.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
Like everything's just like everything is like fuck fuck fuck.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
Like there weren't onesies that said for a baby that
said I came from nutting, like but spelled n U
T T I N like just yeah, I got I gotta.
They didn't have they didn't have patients and size. I'm
so sorry, but yeah, I was just shocked. I was like, Wow,
these like gifts kind of shops have been around forever,

(25:38):
but like they're they're they feel like a little bit
more high end now at the same time as feeling
very like so like just dirty kind of like so
many dirty things in these shops. It was just like
cracking me up because there was like three of them
in this little town.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
But anyway, or.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Like books that just say cheese porn, you know what
I mean, Like I would just it's just funny to me.
But I also have kids that are at home going
fucking god damn it. So I don't know why I
think swearing is going anywhere. It's where. I mean, swearing
is fine obviously to me. It's just was shocking to
me that at these little stores in New England where
people are like, maybe I'll go pick up a gift,

(26:17):
and then it's just like fuck everywhere. It was making
me laugh. But New Hampshire was great.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
We walked around, we saw the ocean, we went to dinner,
We laughed.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
We had a great time. I have the best time
with them. We just laughed our little asses off. And
then I had the longest fucking travel day ever coming back.
And I got back to La right as oscar traffic
was unleashing, so it took me forever to go home. Yeah,
I forgot. I shouldn't have done that. I love the Oscars.
I don't know why I booked travel. I guess I
had to, like I had to get home, but like,

(26:48):
I really like watching the Oscars and I was bummed
that I watched it.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
That I had to miss it. You know, not watching
it live. How was How was La?

Speaker 2 (26:58):
I'll say it was the best trip I've had in
a while, the most fun I had.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
It was like really busy.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
I was like both two days, I had to be
somewhere at nine am or like nine thirty so and
I was go go go, had a nice had some meals,
had a dinner, had Alfred. I was fine at my spots,
played some games, did some podcasts. I saw a little esther,
I met her baby, loved that.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
Oh cute. Wait does she live in Oh yeah she
lives here?

Speaker 5 (27:25):
Do yeah?

Speaker 3 (27:26):
Yeah? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
Someone recently was like, no one calls her little esther anymore,
and I'm like, you're right.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
She was a grown woman, she has a child. But
it was it was just.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Fun, you know, because we've known each other since elementary school. Yeah,
like really nice to hold her baby. She's so I
haven't had a little baby in a while. That's so
really sweet. It was nice. And then I got upgraded
and fucking slip man. I Yeah, it was just so fast.
I think, La to me is like my family trips
three days max.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
But yeah, I'm trying to think if there was like
a big LA highlight.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
But it was like a petticker with a friend. Sounds
like it was pretty fun. Love it and leave. It
was one of the best nights of my life. I
was on a.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Buzz, like I went being like early night, I have
to be up tomorrow morning. And then instead I was like, oh,
I gotta go out, like I am jazzed, and I
could tell I annoyed him at first, but then I
really got because I was like, are you mad at me?

Speaker 3 (28:22):
Cause I you know, I am who I am and
he's a dork.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
So he's like so smart, but it's cool to be
around someone that's that smart. Like at one point he
like mentioned like this person the sea blah blah blah,
and in my head I went, wow, yeah, this is
like actually really intelligent.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
What was their hot take that you two agreed on.
I saw it on your Instagram, but I forgot it.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
Just that thin mints are are overrated. Oh they need
to be in the fridge.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
But I had one callback to something where I could
tell he was impressed, and like there there was something
about me where like I wanted to impress this like
smart guy, but because your gold seem made fun of me.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
He's like, do you have a crush on him. Oh
I think I do. I'm like, I was just like,
I don't know. It felt really fun. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
I like being on stage like I forgot and being
back on the road. I'm like, oh yeah, I like
to work and like yeah, yeah. Well, let's get started
with our episode.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
But speaking of you being on the road, go to
That's messed Up live dot com, Lisa's links to Lisa's dates.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
She's all over the place, watch night Owl.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
You can listen to my other podcast that's called Who's
the Bitch? I mean, what else anything else going on?

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Well, Survival of the Thickest Season two comes out, oh
March twenty seventh.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
But that's that's that. That's still a couple away. But
we'll be reminding you. Yeah, we will be reminding you
to do remind me, but says coming up. But that's yeah.
All right, Well let that's that's all for now.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Guys, let's get started on today's episode. All right, we
are going to dive into gamb Fallacy Season fifteen, episode seventeen.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
This is a Rollins heavy one. It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
It's a Rollin's heavy episode for those of you, for
you Rollins heads out there. The title by the way,
they never bring up in the episode. But gambler's fallacy,
according to my Google search, is occurs when an individual
erroneously believes that a certain random event is less likely
or more likely to happen based on the outcome of

(30:28):
a previous event or series of events. So, like, I'm
so guilty of the gambler's fallacy. Like I'll play Roulemme
and be like, well, it's hit black seven times, it's
gotta hit red next.

Speaker 3 (30:38):
Not true, that's a fallacy.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
It's just as likely to hit red every single fucking
time as it, you know. And so but you know,
we tell ourselves something when we're a little buzzed and
having fun losing our money.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
So I can't remember it.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Do we know before this episode about Rollins is big
gambling or not? I like, it's hard to she has
such a long tenure on the show, it's hard to
like remember.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
Well, not only that, there's just she's done almost every
single thing right, Like her and Danny Pino joining the
show was just like, let's see how much we can
make these cops fuck up. And yeah, people want to
like fuck them and have a like want them on
the show.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Oh, in season thirteen, which is her first season. In
the episode Home Invasions, she does confess that she's in
twenty thousand dollars of debt with a.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
Bookie, okay, and then I.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Think she does eventually go to like Gambling's Anonymous, but
as we find out, soon she falls off the wagon.
So we open the episode zoomed in on Rollins's face,
and she looks a little sketch, you know, she's up
to some shit. She's got shifty eyes. She says good
night to the team, and Tomorrow's like, what are your plans?
And she's like, I'm going to Niagara Falls. And I
thought she's being sarcastic, but she's serious. And Finn's like, oh,

(31:49):
you gotta go to the Canada side. That's where the
fucking wild clubs are. And of course, of course Finn
knows about the nightlife in Niagara Falls, and Rollins is like,
it's more of a nature trip and Franny's coming with me,
like it's just going to be like a little walk
through the you know, the woods with my dog. Amarro
Is man explaining like, you know, you need.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
To take papers to get a dog across the border,
and she's like, I'm on it Dad, but she gets
really close to his face. It's flirty as usual.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
But the episode where he actually is coming out of
the shower at her place is later this season, so
if you're picking up on vibes, that's what's happening. He
offers to walk her out. He's headed to DC to Seezara.
They leave, Benson walks out and goes, those two, I
wish they'd get a room already.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
It's like, okay, and then.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
Live has a look on her face and Finn goes,
I'll pretend you didn't. I didn't hear you say that.
But Liv looks like pissed, concerned, like she ate bad sushi.
It's hard to say. I can't tell what's wrong, but
she looks annoyed to see them walk out of work together,
as if that's not happened before. Then a song starts playing.
It's called The Blackout Days by Fanta Graham. You know I
have the captions on. That's the only reason I know.

(32:52):
I don't know this band, but they do have six
and a half million monthly listeners on Spotify, So good
for you, guys, and s few once in a while,
shells out them. I need a license like songs that
are not you know, just made up, like you know,
generic hip hop that they'll hear at a club. Anyway,
we see a woman putting on lipstick in the dark,
and uh, it's Rollin's. She gets out of her car.
She's in a shady fucking area. She's like under a bridge,

(33:14):
truly the only car in the area. She's got great
outerwear on as usual, hair looks good.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
What's up?

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Is she meeting a day? Does she undercover? We don't
know what's happening. Her hair is like criminally underrated. It's
one of the best little messy fun news. I'm like
obsessed with her hair else and I have and I
have more comments on the hair. Later, she goes into
some building. It's like a factory that's closed like after
hours or closed down. A security guy is there. He

(33:42):
wants her up and down. She gets let into this
I'll say it. It looks like a cool ass club. It
looks like a private gambling club, very kind of like
Molly's Game, but like another level. Rollin's is smoking butts,
telling the dealer to hit me. There's this guy next
to her, like a Brazilian guy, and he's trying to
tell her shit about her game, and she's like, you want,
don't you count your cards? And I'll count mine, Like

(34:04):
she's not having it. And then this guy starts pawing
at a waitress and orders a kapy reina for him
and one for Rollin's, and Rollin's and the waitress make
long eye contact like they recognize each other, and that's
because the girl was a victim four months earlier in
an episode called Jersey Breakdown. Rollins turns down to the
drink and decides to call it a night. The waitress

(34:25):
goes to the back room and her boss goes, what's
the crack, which is Irish for what's up? And I
only know that from Dairy Girls? And we SVU fans
obviously know this is Lieutenant Declan Murphy, but he's ultimate.
He's also the ultimate undercover cop slash thespian like we
did recently watch him piss himself in a jail cell

(34:46):
to try to get Kevin from the office to give
up some flash drives. So the waitress if you're but
if you're just watching the show for the first time,
you don't know who that is. You just think this
is some guy in the back of an illegal thing,
and he's like one of the bosses. The waitress tell him,
you guys know that that blonde is a cop. Right,
So Rollins is cashing out when Irish mob guy comes

(35:06):
up with to her with some muscle.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
They're like, why do you come with us? She's like,
what's the problem.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
I wasn't counting cards, and she's like, if I was
counting cards, I would be I wouldn't be down fifteen K.
So she's back in the hole pretty hard again. They
don't want this to go down in front of all
these people, and he's like, you don't want this night
completely banjaxed, which is a word I've never heard or
seen in my entire life, so I did look it up.

(35:32):
It means, you know, ruined, fucked, but banjaxed, I never
heard it. They bring Rollin's back to the back room
and as soon as the door closes, they pull guns
on her. The Irish batty is like, makes a quiet
motion and then he rips Rollin's shirt open, buttons go flying.
She's obviously wearing a hot bra. She didn't come to
an illegal gambling night wearing like, you know, her shitty

(35:52):
laundry day bra. He goes no wire, not even an underwire,
and I think the bra clearly has an underwire, but
I could be wrong, but I don't like.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
This guy knows.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
The song keeps playing and we hit the credits with
Rollins tits out, guns points it at her. I bet
Niagara Falls is looking pretty good right now. Top of
act one, we're still in the back room. Rollin's shirt
is now fully off, okay, like they've taken her shirt
all the way off.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
They're patting her down.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
They obviously find her badge and she's like, I'm off
duty and she goes, no gun, no wire, no worries,
and unfortunately they're not down with that. He's like, bitch,
you're down fifteen k standing here, half naked with a
gun to your head, so yeah, you actually do have worries, like,
and then he introduces himself as Declan O'Rourke, So I do.
I love the idea that he just changes last names

(36:36):
to something also irish to go undercover. Rollins is like,
don't threaten a cop and he's like, why not. You're
a manky, dirty, filthy little girl like and he's basically like,
you can't do shit about it, and his female associate
who is his boss, Like, you can't tell that yet,
but eventually you realize, like she's above him. Is Sondra
Vaughn and she's played by an actress named Sherry Som,

(36:59):
who is also in the John Glazer episode of SVU
that that's in later seasons, and she's a pretty big
role in that one, and she's good in this one anyway.
Rollin's is trying to explain that this has nothing to
do with her job. She's got to pay what she owes,
she's got OT coming up. I'm like, girl, I don't
think you have fifteen thousand dollars of OT coming up. Maybe,
but Sandra's like, we have to make sure you're not

(37:21):
an informer. Declan's gonna test you, and if she passes,
they can talk about how she'll work off the debt.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
And she's like, okay, cool, can I do the test
with my shirt on?

Speaker 1 (37:30):
And so they give her back her shirt and now
she's back at the precinct and her hair looks perfect.
Her hair is some hair up, some hair down, as
I've always called it. And Amaro walks in and goes,
what's up with your hair? And she goes, oh natural,
and I'm like, it looks professionally done. What are we
talking about here? Like I don't understand what's going on,

(37:52):
but literally in the back it looks like it's clipped
into this like sweet little shape. Like I'm like, I
don't know what you're talking about. Like he acts like
she came in with like BedHead from a hookup. And
then he's like, how is Niagara Fall? She's like, oh,
we didn't make it for Aanny got carsick. Amorrow sees
she's looking on the DMV site and she makes up
an excuse like, oh, yeah, my friend keeps getting parking

(38:12):
tickets even though he parks in a garage. Like she's
good at lying quickly, but I do think she has
like liar face kind of And Amorrow goes to the
men's room and he sees Finn there.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
How's your weekend? Finn goes, my.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
Weekend was dope, and Amorrow asks have you noticed anything
off about Rollins lately? And he thinks it's kind of shady.
She never made it to Niagara Falls. It's like she
changed her plans.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
And now she's checking for parking tickets and Finn's like,
you got a boner for her or what And he's like, no, no,
of course not. And then Live busts in and goes, hey,
gossip girls, and I do love that, and she's just like,
we caught a suspect.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
Move your asses.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
Rollins is back now with Declan and he slaps down
a dozen more parking tickets and Rollins is like, that's
not my precinct, but I did find out when they
do their blitzes, and he's like, I want these tickets gone.
It's like you run an eily eagle gambling ring. This
is truly what you're asking her to do is like
fix these tickets. It's like so low stakes, Like don't

(39:07):
you guys make it up? Pay the tickets, Like I
don't understand why they have to be gone. And she's like, look,
we're in the digital age, Like I can't fix tickets anymore.
They'll track them right to me. So then they offer
her a different test. They basically need her to jury
tamper give them the home address of a juror who
is on a case for an insurance fraud. They're like,
it's a victimless crime. We're not going to hurt her.

(39:29):
We just want to convince her to vote the right way.
Rollins is like, if I get caught, I lose everything,
and Declan is like, we have footage of you gambling
in an illegal club. You've lost everything, and it's like meanwhile,
I'm like, no, it doesn't like the cops cover their
own asses. Like if she got caught, if she went
straight to Live and goes, look, I've been gambling at
an illegal club, she'd get desk duty for a bit
and then she'd be back to flirting with serial killers

(39:51):
in no time. Like I know this is a TV show,
but she should just go to Live now.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Robald also, I don't know, but it's also like, why
does I just have the most giant budgets to just
do these long undercover acting exercises.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
I know?

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Is it really is gambling and drugs that like I
just don't get vice?

Speaker 1 (40:12):
I really yeah, yeah, yeah yeah no, I like I understand,
like when you're busting heroin, but then it's like we
have these like cigarette operations and like gambling and stuff
that it's like this just doesn't feel like it's really
where the money needs to go.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
And we're embedding a guy for like months and months
and months.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
It's crazy now Rollins is at the courthouse because she's
gonna fucking do it, and she just straight up follows
the juror home. I thought she was just gonna like
look it up, like it's probably public, probably in some
kind of police system who the jurors are. But then
they she sees the juror has a kid in a wheelchair,
and she opens up her ancient flip phone and she
deletes the text that she was gonna send with the address.

(40:51):
She uh gets back to the illegal club, she tells Declan, ah,
I lost her. I had her on the subway, but
I lost her. At first He's like, oh, you lost her?
Hunt and then he grabs her and he's like, you dumbass,
we had you follow you. Let us write to her,
and Rollins begs, She's like please, the woman has a son.
And he's like, yeah, we're gonna pay her bills. We're
helping her, like we're not gonna hurt her. And Rolin's like,
I'm not gonna do anything that's gonna hurt anyone, and

(41:13):
Declan's like, cool, I guess we're done here. Are we
calling your sergeant or are we calling IAB. I've got
both numbers. Just saved in my phone here and then
he was like, just a reminder, jail for a cop
is not pleasant. She tells him wait, she starts to
flirt with him and is like, maybe there's another way
we can work this out, and Declan tells this guy
his other guy to leave, and he starts setting up

(41:34):
his phone to record their little like tryst, and Rollins
is like, you're not gonna record this and he's like, girl,
I'm in charge, Like shut your mouth, and the next
thing we see is Rollin's.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
Like being dragged down, like towards the man, and that's
a fade to commercial.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
Back at the craps table, we've got Sondra the boss
flirting with the same rich Brazilian dude who tried to
buy Rollins the capirinha, and then she's like, you better mate,
good tonight. My boss is getting impatient, and then she
tells the waitress that guy's cut off, and when she
goes into the back room, she finds Rollins and Declan
looking like they're getting their clothes back on after their

(42:10):
you know, little sexual payoff moment. Declan says she passed
the third test. She went below and beyond the call
of duty, l ol.

Speaker 3 (42:19):
He goes.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
Now we know she's not undercover. Sondra tells Declan to leave.
She pours Rollin's a drink and she goes, just so
you know you're not gonna have to do that again,
whatever you had to do, and Rollins is like, okay,
cool girl power, like I work for you only now,
like please let that Irish fuck know. And then they
get down to the girl talk. Rollins tells her, look,
I'll be honest with you. The NYP does not the

(42:41):
NYPD does not know about this place, which again, I
don't think she would know that unless she was like
in vice and she's like, duh, I'm an Ivy League
educated art history major. That's what Sondra says, and Rollins
is like, oh, I'm from rural Georgia, like I'm from
a hard scrabble family. And then Sondra, who is pregnant,
touches her back and goes, my son's not going to

(43:01):
grow up how I did. And then she asks Rollins,
you ever asked yourself what you want out of life?

Speaker 3 (43:06):
And Rollins goes, this place seems cool.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
She's like, I get to smoke and drink and gamble,
and I basically had to just fuck a strange man
to keep my job. So this is this is great,
And Sondra's like, yeah, you could do well here if
you let go of your working class morality, and Rollins asks, yeah,
if you can let go of my debt, and then
they both laugh, but Rollins is like, Rollins is like JKJK,
but also I'm kind of serious, like can you let

(43:29):
go of my debt? And Sondra's like, you're gonna work
it off. And then right before she leaves, Rollins starts
trying to like sow some distrust with Sondra about Declench.
She's like, you trust that guy, and She's like, why
you think I shouldn't, And she's like kind of just
like trying to imply maybe he's one of those guys
that's trying to like usurp power from women who have
worked hard, like we do all the work, and then

(43:51):
they come in here and try to like fucking take over,
and that like resonates with Sandra. She looks like a
little bit like shook by that like possibility. In Benson's office,
Finn and Tomorrow now walk in. Amorrow is worried about Rollins.
Benson thinks she has the flu, so she called in
sick and they're like, yeah, but we went over to
her place with some soup and she wasn't there. I

(44:12):
would love too cute men to bring me soup when
I have the flu. Amorrow tracked her cell to some
warehouse in the navy yard and was talking to some
guy who looked like and when he and then followed
her there and saw her talking to some guy who
looked like Irish Mob, Amorrow thinks it's a gambling club.
Finn's still trying to give Rollins the benefit of the doubt.
Live tells them to shut the fuck up and she'll

(44:33):
handle it. Finn leaves, but Live closes the door before
Amorrow can go, and she's like, I do have a
problem with you tracking her cell phone and following her,
and he's like, well, I don't want to take any
chances about after what happened with you, and I think,
you know, he's obviously talking about William Lewis and he's like,
I'm not stalking her. And then Benson gets right into

(44:53):
the personal like how's Maria doing and he says we're
working it out, and then Live drops the bomb. You know,
She's called me a couple times because she's worried about you,
and he's like, you know, you could tell that that
would fuck with somebody like tomorrow, so much like for
his wife to like call his work like go behind
his back and like, you know, make anybody at his
work think that he's soft or having problems or anything.

(45:15):
And he's like, well, I'm sorry she pulled you in.
She won't call you again and lives like good and
keep away from Rollins too. It's so antagonistic between them.
It's like a weird shift in their relationship, like after
all that Ganzelle and Carissa shit that they went through,
and Live was backing him up so hard, and now
she's like thinks he's a bad guy. Like I think,
I don't know, maybe they're setting him up to like

(45:35):
leave the show.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
I don't know what's going on. Well, she's under a
lot of stress. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
So back at the gambling club, Declan tells her that
h Rollins that she has to take drunk Brazilian guy
to his house and up the stairs, and just as
Rollins is like, I'm not a sex worker, he goes,
don't flatter yourself. He's not into trailer trash, and I'm like,
I beg to differ. He was trying to buy Rowlins
a drink, like he's very into her. Then Rollins is like,
all right, I'll like I'll do it. And then Rollins

(46:03):
is like, by the way, that waitress that you guys
hired is sixteen years old, the one that gave me up,
and Sondra is pissed and she's like, Declan, I thought
you vetted her.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
So this is like more declan fucking up.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Rollins is now driving brazil drunk home and he's like
lounging across the backseat slurring while Rollins drives. He reveals
he's a diplomat, he has immunity, and he's never going
to pay his debts to the club, but he owes
them so much they need him and I don't really
get that. I'm like, they need him for what if
you don't have if you're not paying your debts, what
do they need you for? I don't they need you for?

(46:36):
Maybe sketchy getting more people to the club, maybe like
Brazilian businessman contacts or something could be that, or like.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
What they're doing with Rollins, you know, like favors. Yeah,
that's true.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
I don't know what the Brazilian diplomat could do for them,
but maybe yeah. When they get to his house, his
wife comes to the door and doesn't want Rolins to
come in, but the husband makes up an excuse and
is like, oh, she's just a receptionist from like the
Russian mission.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Like we had too much vodka.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
She's just taking me home and she says like, I'm
just the designated driver.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
The wife like like, eventually lets Rollin's in.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
They bring him in, and then she's like, oh, this
is a nice place and there's all this art up
and the woman goes, yeah, it doesn't belong to us,
it belongs to the Brazilian government. And then she goes,
you can go now, and then she goes and please
don't let my husband back into that club, like she
knows he's that Rollins is not from a fucking Russian

(47:29):
mission or whatever it is, Like, she's like, don't let
my husband back into that club. He has issues, but
you guys are the worst, like you take advantage of him.
And then she's like, get the fuck out of here.
So Rollins gets a text as she's headed out, so
she walks into a bar and her best buddy Finn
is there and he's like, how's the flu and she's like, oh,
I took some mental health days. And Finn's like how

(47:50):
much do you need? And Rollin's is like, I'm fine,
I'm moonlaighting to pay it off. And he keeps asking
her how much she owes and if they have her
doing shady shit like looking up people's licenses, et cetera.
He's like, girl, if I'm noticing other people are noticing too,
this is gonna bite you in the ass. She insists
she's got it covered and Finn's like, all right, it's cool.
You know where to find me, and then he hands

(48:10):
her a wad of cash. He's such a good friend.
He just like hands her a bunch of money and
he's like, but whatever this is, stop it now.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
I'm not ready for another partner.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Finn walks out, we see Declan and one of his
goons are sitting right there. They approach Rollins. She hands
Declan the cash immediately and he's and she's like, maybe
it's time for me to get out of this extremely
dangerous situation and he's like no, Soandra needs another favor.
The goon Carlos like the guy who's been with working
with Declan the whole time. Is this guy Carlos and
he's gotten into a jam. He got stopped at a

(48:40):
speed trap with an unlicensed gun, and Rollins is like, uh, well,
I don't work for the DA and they're like, well,
we just need to make the gun go bye bye,
like no gun, no case.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
And she's like, oh my god. She's like so much right,
Like why didn't she just tell Benson.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Like this is so much worse, all this shit, I mean,
we figure it out. But she asks like does he
have a record, and he's like, I'm squeaky clean.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
I don't even have a parking ticket.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
And Declan's like okay, like see what you can do,
and Rollin's looks stressed, and I can see it's like
they're just testing the boundaries, like of her morality. Like
at first it's like parking tickets. Like at first I
was like, well, who cares about the parking tickets? I
think they're seeing how far she can go, because first
it's parking tickets. Then it's follow this, we went home
and just get us her address and we're not going
to hurt he.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
We're actually going to give her money. Then it's oh man,
it's a gun.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
I was carrying a gun without a license, Like, I'm
not hurting anybody, right, So they're seeing like how far up,
how far she'll go? But literally checking out evidence is
definitely a level up from the other two things. So
cut to her looking incognito in a baseball cap at
the evidence locker. She's keeping her head down. She shows

(49:49):
a badge. The guy calls her detective Wheeler. So she's
clearly gone out of her way to get a fake badge,
and she's like avoiding the security cameras, keeping her head down.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
She looks shady as hell.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Back at the gambling club, Soandra is complimenting Rolins on
a job well done. This pays off your interest at
the club. I don't know if that pays off the
base debt, but the interest. Carlos is like, uh so,
now my DNA isn't in the system, and Rollins is
like it never was. It only gets entered when there's
a conviction. Sondra's like when's your next shift and like
can you work a double? And then Declan goes hold on,

(50:21):
I don't know about this plan, and she's like butt out, loser,
and he looks pissed, like he looks sad that he's
being cut out. At the precinct, Rollins is playing Solitaire
on her computer. It's like this woman cannot get away
from cards.

Speaker 5 (50:30):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
And there's a call and Finn writes down and address
and Rollins recognizes the address and she goes, you know what,
I'll take the call. You guys have been covering for
me a lot lately.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
And then Finn's like, I'll go with you, and then
Amaro looks suspicious. He's like, because I think it's because
Rollins does have It's obviously the act. It's obviously Kelly
Giddish is like acting choices to like subtly telegraph that
she is lying, but it seems very clear whenever she lies.
And it is the house of the Brazilian diplomat, and
apparently a purp used the key he pad to get in,
pulled a gun, tied up the husband, and raped his wife.

(51:05):
The perp took cash, but left jewelry and electronics. And
Major Crimes is sending their art expert because some significant
paintings were stolen. Finn introduces himself to the Brazilian diplomat
and he's like, what took you so long. Then he
clocks Rollin's and you can see his face just trying
to process what's going on, and Rollins goes, I'll take
the wife, and then it seems like the.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
Guys she's doing this.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
I know he'll keep going, but like it's really weird
because then she's like Rollin. But when she talks to
the wife and the wife is clearly scared, it seems
like Rollin's like, what, I'm just a cop, Why are
you acting like this?

Speaker 3 (51:42):
Like she's you know what I mean. I think she's
used threatening or like what is going on?

Speaker 1 (51:47):
She's trying to cover her ass because she knows she
was at that house the night before and she's going
to be on security footage or something. I think I
think it's like a Brazilian diplomat's how she knows there's
going to be camera footage. She's like, if I go,
I can insert myself in the investigation and at least
cover my own ass. I think that's why she's doing it,
But it is it is wild that she would even yeah,
go up to the lady and be like not without.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
Some kind of plan, you know. Well, she also seems
confused why they're all scared of for me, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So but the guy is obviously scared.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
He's changing his story, like originally he said he saw
the rapist face and now he's like, oh, no, the
guy wore a mask. Now that he's seen Rolins, he's like, no,
the guy wore a mask. And obviously he thinks the
club is sending Rowlins to intimidate him. And you know,
it's very scary to know that your enemies are like it,
have the cops in their pockets. So upstairs, the wife
is telling this other officer about her attack, and when
she sees Amanda, she goes, Okay, I get the message.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
I know what to do. I know what to do.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
And then Rollins tries to like touch her on the
leg and she slaps her hand away and starts going,
I don't remember anything. I don't remember anything, and Rollins
looks ashamed like she is spiralless cickets.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
It's like a fuckingw it. Yeah, and it's your fault.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Rollins like, yeah, I honestly can't believes she kept her
job and that we've had her on the podcast and
like her like, I'm I do not forgive her for this.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
It well, that's why we have to have forgiving Rollins,
which is another episode later, like because she does so
much bad shit that we have to forgive her. But
live in Tomorrow now are on the scene. They're trying
to figure out what's up. They're like, maybe they knew
the assailant and they were scared of him. Rollin because
the guy, the Brazilian guy, would know Carlos, because Carlos
is at the club working, So it is weird he

(53:28):
would even ever say that he saw his face.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
It's kind of even weird that he would call the cops.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
I'll be honest, like, because if he knows it's Carlos,
he wouldn't call the cops. He's like, these people are
doing this because of my fucking debts. But maybe because
he has immunity. He calls for justice for his wife.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
I don't know. I think it's rape and the art.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Yeah, that's true, and it belongs to the Brazilian government,
so they're gonna get in trouble for that, You're right.
So Rollins is like, I'll pull security footage because, like
I said, you know, she's trying to cover her fucking tracks.
Back at the precinct, She's running through some footage. Finn's
look a looking over her shoulder and he's like, slow down,
I can't even see what you're looking at.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
She's like I got this, Like she's so shady.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
Finn goes, well, the victim wouldn't do a rape kit,
but there was semen and hair found at the scene.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
Then they get a hit on the DNA Carlos Reva.
Oh no, not.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
Squeaky clean Carlos, and Rollins is like, sorry, if you're
listening to this and you hadn't seen the episode, I
did reveal that about a minute ago, and I apologize.
It was Carlos, the guy who's the muscle guy from
the club.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
And Rollins is like, whoa are you sure?

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Like what criminal would leave their jiz behind when their
DNA is in the system. So it turns out that
Carlos does have a record and the gun they can
see the gun charge that was just dropped, but also
that he has a stalking charge plea that he pled
down to domestic assault from last fall. I don't know
why his DNA would necessarily be in the system. Maybe

(54:51):
if there was.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
Like a physical altercation, but I think if you go
to jail, you give up your DNA, not like a swab,
I don't think, And.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Like, I don't know if I don't know if they
do DNA. I know they do fingerprints and shit, I
don't know if they do DNA. If you go to jail,
I wonder. I don't know, but I wonder. But then
tomorrow goes. Good thing. New York finally authorized all crimes DNA,
so their act and I googled that, but I couldn't
find anything.

Speaker 3 (55:17):
So maybe some of our New York law.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
People can get involved and tell me what's going on,
because I assumed that they thought because this was like
a misdemeanor or something, because it's not a felony maybe,
but like now it's all crimes DNA, and so like
that's why they thought that he would get away with it. Anyway,
Rollins is like, oh, yawn, stretch, damn guys, I'm really sleepy.
And so Finn sends her home and says me and

(55:42):
tomorrow got it.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
And then yeah, for detectives, they're really not catching on.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
They kind of are, I mean, yeah, and Finn goes tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
Whatever you're thinking, don't.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
So now they're at an art gallery and they're talking
to some guy showing him a photo of Carlos and
he's like, yeah, I don't recognize him, but like I
can look into it and see maybe if he is
like a driver for us or something. And Tomorrow's like, yeah, yeah,
I get on that, and he asks, do you know
the artist bea tri Sa Morante And that's someone they've
mentioned earlier in the episode as the artist who did

(56:15):
a lot of the paintings that were hanging in the
Brazilian diplomat's house and that were stolen during this like
rape slash burglary. He says, oh, yeah, she's one of
Brazil's best artists, and then they're like, oh, do you
have any of her work? And he's like, she's an
audacious painter, but she's not quite on our radar.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
And I was like, I don't.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
I know, We're going to get to this later, but
I was like, what are you just are you shading her?
Like what if she's one of the best, why don't
you why don't you want her art? Anyway? Back at
club no sorry, I was about to say, back at
Club Rollins. Back at the club, Rollins is like you sick.
Fox wanted me to clear the gun charge, so this
guy could revenge rape Marcello's wife. They're certainly calling him Marcelo.

(56:54):
He's the Brazilian diplomat. Declan goes, that was Sondra's idea,
and Rollins is like, you did that to an innocent woman,
Like I thought we had a drink and we were
like talking lady to lady about like girl power and
raising each other up.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
Sondra's like, she had fair warnings. So did he.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
He thought he was untouchable and we had to, you know,
send him a message. And Declan is pissed. He's like,
this was a dumb move. I should have been consulted.
Sondra's like, well, it's Rollin's his fault. She didn't get
Carlos's DNA out of Cotis and Rollins goes crazy. She
like rushes at her and goes, Carlos said he had
no record, and Sondra just laughs and goes, he lied.

(57:31):
He's a criminal. You should have run his name. Clean
this up. And Rollins is like or what? And Sondra
threatens to turn her over to her own people for
stealing the gun from evidence, and even Declan is like,
how is she going to fix this? And he goes
they have this Egypt's DNA and I just had to
bring that up because they're giving him so many little irishisms.
And I was like semi raised by two Irish babysitters

(57:55):
that lived at our house, oh pairs, and they used
to call us Egypts and people Egypts all the time.
And it's like a fun it's a fun little it's
a fun little phrase. What does it imply, though, like idiot?
I think it's just like a dummy. And I don't
think they were calling us. They would just be like,
I don't know. They would call us cheeky monkeys and
eat and then they would say maybe they'd never called

(58:16):
us egypt but they would say like, oh, he's an
Egypt or something.

Speaker 5 (58:19):
You know.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
Anyway, a little a little high for all I know,
we have Irish listeners, So we're bringing up, we're bringing
up your culture. And Rollins is thinking, and she's like,
I need to get a DNA sample from Carlos.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
So now at the lab.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Rollins is talking to friend of the pod Karen send
Lee aka Emmy Susan Chung and asking her, Hey, can
you run this sample on someone that our victim's been
having an affair.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
With it's just to eliminate him.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
And Chung is like looking concerned because she does her
job properly and is like, well, this isn't really going
through the right channels, and Rollins is like, babe, babe,
I'll get you the paperwork, like relax and just fully
jeopardizing other people's careers like like slashing.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
Yeah, it's like crazy that we keep having And now
she's a professor like yeah, So now Amarro is talking
to evidence locker guy and he's like, look, I signed
it out to Megan Wheeler and then they are like, well, dude,
she retired four years ago. So and on the security
footage that Tomorrow's looking at, it's pretty fucking obvious it's Amanda.

(59:25):
But then there's one shot where she looks up and
it's like very clear it's her. Amorrow is now in
Live's office with Finn, showing her a shit ton of
evidence like of Rolin shady dealings like signing out the gun,
driving the diplomat home, the elimination DNA.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Live is like, stop digging, I'll handle this. Don't tip
her off, pretend everything is normal, and Finn's like, I
don't want to go behind your back, but I gotta
let Rolins know what we know, like it's partner etiquette,
and he goes, if this was Nick or Elliott, there's.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
The magic word. There's the magic word.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
He's been gone two seasons and she three seasons, and
she's like, you're right, I would have definitely told him
because I would have given him a kidney. So we
cut to Finn and live at a bar with Rollins
and they're fucking laying down the law with her. Benson
is pretty disgusted with Rollins and doesn't even know if
she believes that Rollins didn't know about the rape before
it happened. And they're like, you got to turn yourself in,

(01:00:19):
and she's like, they're gonna put me in prison, and
Lives like you had to know nothing good was gonna
come of working with these sketchy fucks, and Rollins is like,
I just had to work off my debt and be done.
That's what I thought was gonna happen, and Lives like, okay,
you are done, girl, Like I'm here for Finn, but
I'm calling iab on your ass, and then Rollins goes,
let me turn myself in.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
I just need a few hours.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
So I can figure out what to do with Franny
and Lives like eight am tomorrow, it's over, We're taking
you in and that like that never works out whenever
they go cool eight am tomorrow, see you there. We
never that meeting never happens. Rollins shares a look with Finn.
In the next scene, Declan is getting out of the
car and Tomorrow goes up to him and Sucker punches
him and he goes, stay away from Rollins. I mean, like, dude,

(01:01:00):
Lives told you six times to drop it, and instead
you fully put yourself right in the middle of it.
And Declan's like, are you the boyfriend? And then he goes,
She's not half bad once you get past the used part.
It's like he's like really rough on Amanda for like
being from the South, I guess. And now Rollins is
in the back room of the club and Jess says
they're going to take her shield and she's going to

(01:01:21):
go to prison, and Sondra's like, I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
Know you, like Mariah Carey all the way.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
She's like, I don't know you, bitch, and she's like,
if you try to cut a deal, my boss will
put a bullet in your brain. And the cop from
the They're like, remember that cop from the twenty fourth
who ate his gun that wasn't to suicide? So fuck
these people are not just like gamblers trying to get
rid of parking tickets. They're fucking scary psycho people. Rollins

(01:01:46):
gets close to Sandra and then pulls a gun and
presses it to her pregnant belly, and it's like, did
these people stop patting her down? I don't understand, even
though now she's more desperate than ever, Like they're like,
let's just let her in, even though she's got every
thing to lose, litterate, don't don't check if she has
a gun. So she makes Declan hand over his guns
and then tells Sondra, I need to meet the boss,

(01:02:08):
Like we're taking this up a level, bitch, and so,
oh snap, look who the boss is? The innocent art
gallery director that we didn't even get a name on,
Like we didn't even clock this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
They get him to say, I actually knew it all along,
but it's because I've seen this a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
Yeah, they get art gallery guys gun, they ask, and
he goes if anything happens to that baby, and Rollins
realizes that the boss man is the father of the baby,
so him and Chandra are a thing, their their work
and business. And then she goes nice work sister to
uh Chandra, and then I think that's shady, just being like, oh,

(01:02:48):
I thought you kind of like worked your way up,
but really you're just like fucking the boss. And she
wants Rollins is doing that thing which we just saw
in a recent episode of SVU, like I want a
million in cash, I want a new path, I want
a private plane, like asking for all these wild demands
that it's like you.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
Kind of know you you're not gonna get those right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
And then she wants to take Sondra with her for insurance,
and Rollins is acting like unhinged and and like because
at first Sondra's like, yeah, babe, let's all go. We
can just all go on a little trip. It's fine.
And then suddenly she gets a pain like in her stomach.
She has to sit down. Everyone's worried about her. Declan
grabs a gun and pistol whips Rollins across her face.

(01:03:26):
She's on the ground, and then Anton, who's the name
of the big boss, is like kill her.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
And then suddenly you all wanted a twist.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
Declan points the gun at Sondra and Anton and says,
hands in the air, Lieutenant Declan Murphy, NYPD, you're all
under arrest and done.

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
Done.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
The Irish accent was fake two b B.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
We did ruin this surprise for everyone. Yeah, I'm sorry,
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
I just think if you know the guy, you if
you watched any episodes in season fifteen sixteen seventeen, like,
he's all over it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
So yeah, it's like you we knew, but it is,
it is.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
It was a great twist, Like when you're watching this
episode not having seen it, it's a great fucking twist.
And this but this guy is Canadian American, but I've
seen him in Sons of Anarchy also playing an irishman,
so clearly Irish accents are like.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
Sure, it's because he is er.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Yeah, and but he's good at the accent too, like
he's killing the accent.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
You know. Well, he's donal Logue. He must be Irish though, Like,
but he grew up. Yeah, he's Canadian American. That's a
funky name though.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Yeah, I mean his parents are Irish, so he does
the accent well because his parents he went to Ireland
in the Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
Yeah, he was born in Ottawa.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
He lived in Boston, California, and he's been studying his parents' accents.
So anyway, in the last act, we opened the top
of this with the tape. So obviously we knew when
they set up that tape of them allegedly having some
kind of sexual twist, that that tape was either gonna
get out or you're gonna see a part of it. Okay,
so we see the tape of when she allegedly banged

(01:05:06):
or blue Declan whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
We didn't know what was happening, But.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
What happened for real was he told her I'm not
interested in whatever you're trying to offer me right now.
I'm Lieutenant Declan Murphy, Manhattan, Vice. The color of the
day is green. Don't forget that. That's how they id
each other to each other. So now back to this
IAB meeting Declan is basically like, as soon as that
moment happened when I revealed myself to her, she was
on loan to Vice as a UC. She was working

(01:05:31):
for me the whole time, and IAB was like, you
should have come to us, and Declan's like I tried
to connect Sondra and Anton for two years. Rollins did
it in three days, Like and it's like, don't send
a man to do a woman's job, Am I right?
Like he's been undercover with this group for two years.

Speaker 3 (01:05:46):
That's what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
Like how does Vice have these unlimited budgets forgetting I
mean they're murders too, yeah, but like just get them
on murder Like I don't understand these little games and
full investigations.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
And I wonder if, like when he's on Vice, like
in a Vice investigation.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Does any enough evidence? There's not enough evidence after two years.
That's crazy, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
I think it's like Anton, like nobody ever Sondra was
always like as the boss, but he was like a
shadowy figure that they couldn't figure out. And I guess
putting a gun to his girlfriend's belly is like the
only way we could get to him.

Speaker 3 (01:06:20):
So but it's crazy that you couldn't figure that out.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
You couldn't follow her, you could, Yeah, Like there's no
way that she's she got pregnant by this guy she
sees him, Like, there's no way you could have figured
weaseled your way into meeting Anton after two years.

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
I always wonder too.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
I'm like, if you're working at an illegal gambling club
at night, like as an undercover, Like during the day,
are you just like at your apartment doing your regular
life and then you just go to work at night
as undercover or do you have to be fully in
like apartment like the idea.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Yeah, you have to be fully ameshed. But I think
you rest in the day. I think you live that lifestyle.
I don't think you're going to the office. No, but
like if you had a yeah, I guess. I'm kind
of like, no. Don you remember that episode Ze Wildlife
where he's like I lost everything going undercover man?

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
Yeah, and Stabler's simply not calling his wife back. But
that's also just Stabler, you know. I don't know if
he's ever like actually allowed to slip away and go
see his family, if it's a long mission, if it's
two years, like I don't know, do you only get
guys that have no families, no friends, no interest in their.

Speaker 3 (01:07:22):
Regular life for two years? It's like, Wow, it's wild.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
If you know any more information about going undercover, I'd
love to know, please dm us.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
So both of them, Declan.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
And Rawlins are like, we did not know about the
plan to rape the diplomat's wife, like we're sick about it.
But they're like, Carlos Reva is in custody and will
plead guilty to rape one and grand larceny. IAB points
out that the man behind all of this is Anton
Nadari and they're like, so the guy who was just
profiled in the New York Times as a superstar art dealer,

(01:07:51):
And they're like, yeah, art dealing is his cover. He's
got a huge international criminal enterprise. We have his confession
on here, and it's like and it's some gaudy ring
that he said, I hung it on a wire at
the gallery. It's like, good one, no one noticed that
totally normal ring hanging on a wire at the gallery, Like.

Speaker 3 (01:08:09):
Wait, what, oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
It's like a ruby ring that he places down and
goes His whole confession is on here, because like the
guy goes to his own art gallery and goes, this
is a front. I am running a criminal enterprise. We
got it all on the ring. Like it's crazy. But
so I don't know if I caught that really Yeah,
as I went that little thing it's not even a camera.

(01:08:32):
It's like a little ring hanging back, it made no sense.
They're like, we're gonna get him on art theft, art forgery, extortion, rape,
murder of.

Speaker 3 (01:08:40):
A You had all that why two years.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
Because they're saying Sondra is turning state's evidence. It wasn't
until they got Sondra that they can get this guy
and all this shit. She's selling that guy out, no problem.
She's like, me and my baby are moving to the
fucking multives, you know, like she doesn't care. She's ruthless.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
Uh. And Declan is arguing, and that one been raped. Yeah,
she doesn't give a fuck.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Yeah, And Declan is arguing that the ends justify the means.
I mean, like, I don't know if I buy that,
But like this poor woman who's just like a fucking
wife of a alcoholic, gambling addict diplomat who probably cheats
on her constantly, has to be the one that got punished.
But they it did help them take down this fucking
guy who's like killed cops and done all this other stuff.

(01:09:23):
So the IAB guy is like, I'm taking this upstairs,
and then Declan like steps to the IAB guys and
goes given rolins his exemplary performance, she keeps her shields
or I take it upstairs, Sarge, and it's like, okay,
he likes Rolins. I guess he's taken back all that
trash talk about her being used up and dirty and like.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
A shit boy value and then he ends up being
fathering a child.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
Yes, everybody, yeah, just fyi, everybody. She is Billy's mom
or dad? Which one is which one?

Speaker 5 (01:09:58):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:09:59):
God, now we have to look Rolin's fucking kids. Hold on,
isn't is it Jesse and Billy? It's Jesse. Oh, you're right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
Jesse's the first one, so I believe Jesse is doctor.
Uh the is the I thought that he was her
first kid. Oh wow, yeah she doesn't have she doesn't have.
The Doctor's the second kid.

Speaker 3 (01:10:19):
Damn.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
Ok yeah, Rolin's and then the and then Cariese's the third.
She's got three baby daddies.

Speaker 3 (01:10:24):
And is Donald Loga not an active father? Obviously?

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
There's one point where he comes back and she's like,
he's like, you didn't tell me, and she's like, I
didn't really think you would want to, Like I kind
of just made the decision for myself because people think
that it's Amorro's baby. And then eventually it's like kind
of revealed that it's Donald, that it's a Declan's baby,
and I think He's like, if you need anything, let
me know. But he's going back undercover. He's like an

(01:10:51):
undercover junkie, you know. He's like, yeah, you know, well,
I mean we'll find out whether maybe he'll ever be back.
So now they're walking down the street together Murphy Decla
Murphy and Rollins and she's like, you know, you could
have just busted me right away and saved yourself a
lot of grief. And he says when you came into
the back room, He's like, I really saw somebody about
to hit rock bottom. And then he talks about himself

(01:11:13):
in the third person and he goes, Decla Murphy believes
in redemption, that venal sins don't define you.

Speaker 3 (01:11:18):
The choice is yours.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
Let's hope you make a better choice than like the
shitty ones you've been making. Rollins wants to know how
much live knows and he goes, well, I finessed it,
but she's smart, so come clean and stay clean, and
then he goes May the Road Rise to meet you, detective,
which is part of the Irish Blessing, and they're laying
on everything Irish so thick with this.

Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
Guy, it's like hilarious.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
Like later in another episode they have him in like
a classic Irish like fisherman's sweater. It's like they're just
really like the notes on Donald Loge's character is just
like a shamrock. But when they're like handed to wardrobe,
they're like, here's what this character is, an Irish man.
So back at the precinct, Rollins is explaining to Tomorrow
and Finn, like, this is I couldn't tell you like

(01:12:01):
I had to tell Live. She had to know, so
I guess Live knew the whole time, and that's why
she was like. That's why she was like, don't dig
into this anymore to the guys, because she did know
what was going on. But then Live calls her into
the office and she's like, I'm not happy about this,
like I did have to lie to two of my
detectives and a woman was raped, which is like against

(01:12:21):
our full code of ethics. Here, specifically in this precinct,
she admits that the way she got involved with Wece
was that because she fell behind at the club. So basically,
Declan Murphy told uh Benson, oh, I'm using your girl
as a U see, but he didn't tell her all
the details of like here's how I found her. So
she's coming clean about it to Olivia. She's like, I
got involved with them because I fell behind at this club.

(01:12:42):
They found out I was a cop. They leveraged it
against me, and it's like she just got extremely lucky
that a guy she essentially offered to blow or fuck
was an undercover might be the officer.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
And yeah, like this could have gone such a different way. Yeah, yeah,
I could have had a yeah, blow like this dude.

Speaker 3 (01:13:01):
Right, and then my god, thank god he was an
under Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
So the two crimes that she committed before she found
out she was an undercover, though, is the trying to
fix the parking tickets, which she it's not really like
a crime. It is like she looked up where they
do their like busts, and she followed the juror home,
but she also didn't give them the information. So technically
the only illegal thing that she did was gamble and

(01:13:29):
then solicit not but like, I guess, no, you can
fuck whoever you want for whatever reason you want, I guess.
So she is so like, then the next step was
offering to fuck this guy to get off of like
her prop to get out of it, you know. So basically,
Benson is like, all right, well, this guy Murphy might

(01:13:50):
trust you, but I don't. And if I weren't so
short staffed, i'd transfer you. And Rollins is like, I swear,
I'm going to get back in your good graces. I'm
gonna try, and Lives like, oh okay, we're done here,
Like Live is hard ass Live in this episode.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
I don't think I've ever seen her as mad, like,
I know, outside of to.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
Of herb yeah right, but to like one of the
detectives and to somebody who eventually becomes like her best friend,
Like it is kind of it's a it's a fun
arc though, how those two move, you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
Know, But this is bad, like Rollins is bad. Yeah,
I mean Rollins here, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
I know she just got desperate and did and like,
I mean, I think I don't know how Live could
ever forgive that your actions ledge with this woman being raped, Like,
I don't know how she could forgive it, but.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
It just seems like I'll make it like I don't know,
she doesn't feel guilty and sad enough for me, Yeah,
and going there and trying to investigate. Is it's fucked
intimidating them at the crime scenes.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
Fully, like trying to go, like trying to blow over,
like tampering with evidence, like the whole case, like honestly
the gun thing.

Speaker 3 (01:15:02):
Like Carlos Reva's lawyer.

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
If they found out about her, as the OC could
argue that this whole fucking case is fucked and that
he can get off for the rate because there was
a UC involved that was tampering with evidence, you know, yeah,
hopefully giving his giving his semen to a fucking medical examiner.
I don't think Vice would have approved all that shit,
but you know, here I am with my law degree

(01:15:26):
from sv University. Okay, So then and Tomorrow, like look
at her when she comes out and she kind of
realizes that like no one in her whole fucking squad
trusts her poker obsessed ass, and that's dick wolf, Baby,
She's got a long way to climb out.

Speaker 3 (01:15:40):
Of this hole. What like four episodes, yeah, something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
I mean, she's literally fucking Nick four episodes later, Like
she's literally in a in a relations like a casual
relationship with Tomorrow four episodes later. So I guess everybody
forgave him forget pretty quick.

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
All right, well, we can move right into these crimes.
So this is the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum art.

Speaker 3 (01:16:12):
Heist, which I know nothing about.

Speaker 1 (01:16:13):
But when I saw this was it, I thought Lisa's
gonna be thrilled.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
I was thrilled. And you know, it's a heist. We
can all deal like. It's nice to have a little
heist with all the grapes. So in nineteen ninety there
was a theft of thirteen artworks from this museum, Isabella
Stewart Gardner Museum in Boston. They made off with hundreds
of millions of dollars in stolen art. And it's coming

(01:16:40):
out about thirty five years ago that this happened. And
so this woman, she's pretty fucking cool. So she lived
from eighteen forty to nineteen twenty four, and she was
an American art collector, of philanthropist, patron of the arts,
and she founded the museum. She was popular and cool
and obviously a NEPO. She was the daughter of a
wealthy linen merchant and grew up.

Speaker 3 (01:17:00):
In Manhattan, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
She was known to enjoy flirting with scandal and gossip.
According to CNN Style, she marries one of Boston's most
eligible bachelors, and so that's how she got the gardener
last name. And then he died in eighteen ninety eight,
and suddenly she's like, you know what I'm going to realize,
like our share dream of building a museum for all

(01:17:25):
of our treasures. And it opened in nineteen oh three.
There was a giant grand opening party, champagne and donuts.
This bitch is fun. The Boston Symphony Orchestra played. So
in nineteen ninety two, men snuck into the museum disguised
as police officers answering a distress call. It was like
pre dawn hours of March eighteenth, nineteen ninety right after

(01:17:49):
the Saint Patrick's Day parade, and you know Boston and Saint.

Speaker 1 (01:17:52):
Patty's Like, people are, I've been there for Saint Patrick's
Day and it's fucking nuts. Wait, can I just wiggle
it really quickly? Tell a story about when I went
to Saint Patrick's Day in Boston. Of course I was
fucked up, and I had a beer in my purse
and somehow it got punctured and it started exploding all
over my purse. So I got down on the street

(01:18:13):
and I just dumped my whole purse out onto the
street and I was just trying to like save my
shit from getting soaked in beer.

Speaker 3 (01:18:19):
And these two girls walk by, and I heard this
one girl go, promise me you'll never let me get
like that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
And you know what, I had a great day after
that saved my shit kept going and I was in Southee. Okay,
that's the most Irish fucking area to be in Boston, and.

Speaker 3 (01:18:37):
It was nuts. That's so funny. That's it. Sorry to interrupt.
I just had that thought PLoP into my head.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
I love Saint Patrick's Day and just tying up two
guards is like, is this a cartoon?

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
Is this Scooby Doo?

Speaker 5 (01:18:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
Oh, this is also the birthday of my brothers, my
twin brothers. This would have been their third birthday, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
And they and this guy, I mean, they took rembrands
for mere about like five hundred million dollars worth, But
they also took like different things.

Speaker 3 (01:19:06):
They were kind of weird.

Speaker 2 (01:19:07):
They took a nondescript Chinese metal vase, a bronze eagle
from a top a flagpole. Five minor sketches by dig
oz A, Mane, Manette, Manet Mene. I think it's just
crazy that like change it like Monet, Like I don't know,
it's just like kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
They're like, I'm gonna kind of do that too, but
I'm mayne. It's a cheater brand. It's honestly a cheater brand.
You cannot be tipsy girl after skinny girl.

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
Sorry, but the painting is the Chez Tortoni, or as
I like to call it, Tordellini. And so they walked
by tons of things worth millions, like jade figurines and
are drawing by Michelangelo. But then they spent a giant
amount of time fussing to get this vase. So it's

(01:19:54):
just so really confusing. They also left behind a super
prized red brand that they took down, but then they
left leaning against a cabinet and then okay, so ANTHONYA.

Speaker 3 (01:20:06):
Morey is the director of security at.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
The museum now not during the heist, and he thinks
that they just forgot it that red brand that was
like you just.

Speaker 1 (01:20:15):
Take down a multimillion dollar painting and you're like, fuck, do.

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):
We forget that? That's so crazy?

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
But I wonder why they went for these like flagpole
things and different stuff, but left to Michaelangelo like what
the specific things and asked you, yeah, like it's it's interesting.
They also cut some paintings out from the front, and
Kelly Horn, a deputy editor of The Boston Globe, said
that to even leave remnants of the paintings behind was

(01:20:44):
savage and that in his mind, it's sort of like
slashing someone's throat. I love that's the CNN style, so
really effective. The theft was not discovered until the cleaning
crew arrived in the morning. One of the security guards
did break pro to call and open the door for
the thieves. So he's always been a suspect, but nothing's

(01:21:05):
ever come from the suspicions and like the like, he
never got any changes in income spending, like they've tracked him.

Speaker 3 (01:21:14):
I'm just confused.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
He opened the door for them, and then no one
found out about the theft until the next morning, Like
they were tied up.

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
Oh that's right, da da da.

Speaker 2 (01:21:23):
Yeah, so but not Also, not a single motion detector
was set off, so they're like, are these people ghosts?
The FBI says that eighty nine percent of museum heighs
certain side jobs. No really, yeah, I mean, how like
you need you need someone on the inside.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
Yeah, and like kind of like even if you're like
making money at a museum or you're an art dealer
or anything like that, it's like the amount you could
make selling one of these paintings is like astronomical. I'm
sure it just like tempts people to like get involved
in like the black market of it, all right, yeah, yeah,
that's nuts.

Speaker 2 (01:22:02):
Revenge or someone gets to you, like I just wonder
if it's hot, like because the thieves have to manipulate
you in some way and start a relationship with you or.

Speaker 3 (01:22:12):
Yeah, you reach out, you know. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
But the director of security at the museum, Amore, he said,
I'd be lying if I said it doesn't affect me.
I walk by the empty frames every day.

Speaker 1 (01:22:25):
I don't get the ones that they cut out, Like
you can't resell a painting that you cut out of
a frame. That feels like you're just doing it to
be horrible. That's what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
It's a lot of your behavior, Like they took some
heavy frames but not others, like cut stuff out. But
I think it's if it's an original, it's okay. If
it's cut from the sides oh.

Speaker 3 (01:22:44):
I thought maybe they were just yeah yeah in terms
of like resale value, yeah, but I.

Speaker 2 (01:22:49):
Wonder who they But like does a billionaire just keep
it hidden and their basement.

Speaker 1 (01:22:55):
I feel like you sell it overseas or something where
they're not going to get you get like you get
some fucking rich guy in Qatar to buy it, like
no one's going to come looking for American stolen art
in the Middle East, or like I'm just throwing that
country out there, you know, like other places as well.

Speaker 3 (01:23:11):
You know, I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
I just feel like or you know places where like
billionaires here are such like public figures and people like
know what's in their houses and they do like architectural
digestors and shit like that, or you just.

Speaker 3 (01:23:27):
Would see the art billionaire.

Speaker 1 (01:23:29):
No, maybe not, but like they have parties, they have fundraisers,
they have people in their homes that would see it.
Like I think if you're just like if you own
the police in the country where you live, maybe you're
like who cares that's who you sell it to. I
would imagine. I imagine that's who like is buying black
market stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
I think if you have it, no matter what country
are and you can't hang it up for public views
or things.

Speaker 1 (01:23:49):
Yeah, so you just like have a secret bunker gallery
that you go in and just like look at your
rem brands and then you go back to go up
back upstairs.

Speaker 2 (01:23:56):
One of the like craziest tice, Like if you are
I just don't think you can let people know you.

Speaker 1 (01:24:01):
But I always have wondered that my whole life. Whenever
something huge, like when the Scream got stolen, I'm like,
who's taking that?

Speaker 3 (01:24:07):
Where are you putting it? Like what's the point of it?

Speaker 1 (01:24:09):
Like if you can't look at it all the time
and display it, Like I don't really get. I don't know,
but I guess I'm maybe it's just the power and
the that you have that you have it, you own it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:24:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
So they kept the frames up because it was important
to Isabella that the art was displayed in her way,
so nothing's been removed, rearranged or anything. They also believe
that the paintings will come back, so they want to
have the frames ready for them. The museum, Like our
SVU squad got so many tips, emails, and a lot
of the calls are people who thought they spotted the

(01:24:42):
art during house showings are Zillow pictures, but those were
clearly reproductions for staging homes versus.

Speaker 1 (01:24:50):
I think that rant is in Saint Louis, Missouri, in
a house that's for sale for three hundred and.

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
Fifty thousand dollars the museum, the FBI in the US,
that's what I mean. But if these people going to
house things are like, that's a stolen Rembrandt, Like, I
don't think you can put it up anywhere. Yeah, nobody
has ever been charged, and the statue of limitations on
the theft ran out in nineteen ninety five, but the
FBI says it's there's still an active investigation.

Speaker 3 (01:25:17):
That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
You could just go steal a piece of art and
keep it hidden for five years and then the statute
of limitations is gone.

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
Yeah, weird. That's nuts, crazy, all right, that is nuts.
So now I guess you can hang the paintings. Yeah,
when you go to the museum, there's still a page
with an active ongoing investigation, and the museum's offering ten
million dollar reward for information leading to the recovery of
the stolen works. Thomas Whalen, a social scientist at Boston University,

(01:25:46):
say they've never had a satisfactory conclusion to it or
any clue about what happened. And that's to the New
York Times in twenty seventeen. No informant has ever stepped
forward very Boston.

Speaker 3 (01:25:58):
They say, yeah a more.

Speaker 2 (01:26:01):
The security director says that an art theft has a
high rate of recovery, but typically it happens generations later,
when people have died and informants feel safer about coming forward.
He also is reminding people that the ten million dollar
reward is not for the paintings, but for information leading
to the paintings. So maybe a listener has information.

Speaker 1 (01:26:24):
Maybe you need your grandparents have some mov fucking rembrands
hanging up.

Speaker 2 (01:26:29):
And you would only have to give us like a
half a million dollars. Yeah, just for telling you about it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:34):
Yeah, just a.

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
He also says usually the stolen paintings stay local, so
if it was taken in America, it stays in America.
But I think that's like ignoring you know, private planes. Yeah,
I think I could do whatever I want. But the
email is theft at i SGM dot org.

Speaker 1 (01:26:56):
So anybody have any tips c se us. Yeah, that
would pot at gmail.

Speaker 2 (01:27:01):
That would be huge for our podcast if we were
able to crack. Yes, yes, that is my goal now
because it's not like we'd be harassing like humans and
thinking we could do police work.

Speaker 3 (01:27:17):
You know, there's like ethical stuff with that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:21):
Though I would love to solve a crime. Are you kidding?
But this would be a fun one for us. Yeah,
just everyone, Yeah, everyone would be happy. Okay, now we
have we do have murder though. So this is the
murders of Prince Teddy Ktkar and Princess Nineshka Ketcar another
nineteen nineties crime. April nineteen ninety three, a Park Avenue

(01:27:42):
couple with the titles of nobility from India and connections
in Manhattan social circles were found dead in their home.
They were living on Park between sixty and sixty first
So Prince Ktkar of ked Angaval He was a fifty
seven year old financier and industrialist and then his wife
Netshka was about fifteen years his senior and was born

(01:28:07):
in South America.

Speaker 3 (01:28:09):
And she was married to a shoe.

Speaker 2 (01:28:10):
Manufacturer guy named Max Hoffman for ten years and lived
in this apartment with him. So she was like wealthy
on her own and the neighbors called them the Prince
and Princess, even though there were suspicions of their actual nobility,
and like they just called him Prince Teddy. But some
of his social life friends were like not really believing

(01:28:31):
a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:28:31):
He was caught level of delusion. That's really fun. Yeah,
that's really fun. Like I need to be called Prince Teddy.
I mean, it's truly Countess Luanne.

Speaker 1 (01:28:39):
It's count that she you know she I guess she
had the receipts the Suez Canal and all that.

Speaker 3 (01:28:45):
Wait, what about the canal?

Speaker 1 (01:28:47):
She's like my husband's family, they're the count and countess
because like my husband is a count because his family,
his ancestors like founded the Suez Canal or something or
conquered it or I don't know. That's but she would
like people in a really condescending way in her early
seasons before she truly found out who the real luandeleiseps is,
which is a smoking, drinking, cabaret singing star that was

(01:29:12):
beautiful but.

Speaker 2 (01:29:13):
He was so this but he was successful, well groomed,
and they lived a really rich, fun lifestyle. Some say
he was all talk, but whatever. So a maid arrives
to clean the apartment discover the bodies and notified the doorman,
which when you just call the cops, but I guess
you didn't touch evidence.

Speaker 3 (01:29:30):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:29:31):
The husband was in a pool of blood, laing face down,
bleeding from a neck wound. The princess was on her
back on the floor of the bedroom. She had no
marks on her body, no wounds, both fully clothed, and
the sixth room apartment was in disarray, no evidence of
forced entry as well. At first, investigators didn't know if

(01:29:53):
it was a double murder or murder suicide. But July
nineteen ninety three, cops arrested two men in Reno connection
with the crime and returned them back to New York
to face charges of killing the couple and then two
other people. So they ended up also killing two other
people as well.

Speaker 5 (01:30:12):
Damn.

Speaker 3 (01:30:12):
So yeah, they killed two other people.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
So they were brought back for like four murders in
New York and they found them because they were using
the victim's credit cards, which is the dumbest thing ever
and kind of an easy way to track, right, Like
I don't understand.

Speaker 3 (01:30:27):
Yeah, yeah, but in the nineties, like in the nineties,
when you.

Speaker 1 (01:30:32):
Did your credit card, it was the thing, like it
was the thing that like that did it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:37):
On carbon copy.

Speaker 1 (01:30:38):
So then by the time you like the store reports,
it's like they probably had time to get away, like
they'd be a couple, they could be a state away
by the time they fucking got the credit company card
to say it's not the right charge or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:30:51):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:30:51):
So, but they were having a fun time like charging
the credit cards, and then they got into a fight
and George called the police. So these two guys, so
one of the so it's George Cabo he's fifty six
years old, and Tony Lee Simpson who's twenty one years old,
and they are lovers. They're a coup ah. Okay, so
they're a couple. They're having fun in Vegas. They get

(01:31:13):
into a fight, George calls the police and goes Tony
did everything. And as soon as they're caught, Tony's like, actually,
i'll tell you everything. George did it. So they caught themselves.
What the fun, Like they wouldn't have even been called,
like the credit cards wore evidence, but like one called
the cops because they were probably in a drunk fight.

Speaker 3 (01:31:32):
And then the other was like, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:31:34):
Yeah, actually this is why you don't come at crimes
with a romantic partner. You just too many emotions get
in the way and one of you ends up just
ratting on the other one.

Speaker 2 (01:31:44):
Yeah, so you know they killed those guys. And then
the additional crimes were the murder of Eric C. Prince
and Milton A. Seltzer in their West End Avenue apartment
one month sooner, Oh my gosh. And the those two
murders were full blown to capitations. Oh now these are
sikohs Oh my god. So January twenty third, nineteen nine.

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
I'm honest, I'm surprised that Ryan Murphy's not has not
made a series about them yet.

Speaker 2 (01:32:10):
Well, there's not it's not famous enough. I don't think
a may a lot of research.

Speaker 1 (01:32:14):
Like I'm May December, like gay couple going on a
killing spree.

Speaker 3 (01:32:19):
That's right up his fucking alley. We got to send
it to.

Speaker 2 (01:32:22):
Him because even for like I had to read the
the court like report to find out their sentences. Like
there wasn't even articles about it. Oh wow, Like I
had to scroll through court documents. Yeah, it's like for
some reason, I mean even the New York Times was
like not a lot. There's just not a lot, but

(01:32:44):
the decapitations and then the like wealth of this other couple,
I'm shocked it wasn't a bigger deal. Yeah, but Georgia
in nineteen ninety five got a hundred year prison sentence.
But Cabo blamed the murders on his love. He was like,
it's Tony, it's Tony. I'm afraid of Tony. I'm scared
Tony would kill me. I just went along with it

(01:33:04):
because Tony's a freak. So that was his kind of
point of view. But a jury did find everyone guilty
and they it was strangling the couple with a belt.
But even with that, I don't know how there wouldn't
be a mark. There were no marks on our body,
but I feel like a strange You don't think the
pressure would bruise at all, Like yeah, probably, or you

(01:33:28):
don't bruise after death. Like I'm just I just don't
know how there's no marks. I there'll be no marking
with full strangulation. Yeah, that's crazy, confusing. They were tried separately,
and then in November nineteen eighty five, Simpson was convicted
of the murder as well and robbery of all four victims,
including four counts of second degree murder and got two

(01:33:48):
consecutive terms of twenty five years to life to run concurrently,
and for robbery was sent to twelve and a half
to twenty five years to run concurrently with the murder counts.
So yeah, two of those consecutively. For the murders, that's
fifty years, and then the robbery is concurrent, which I

(01:34:08):
guess I'm okay with. But I don't know why Cabo
would have gotten a hundred years and this guy only fifty.

Speaker 1 (01:34:15):
There must have been some evidence that he was really
the doer, like they're like right, there had to have
been some evidence, like maybe his height or something about him,
that he was the doer and that the other guy
was just kind of like accessory and was like involved
and helped with all of it. But like, yeah, because
that doesn't make any sense to me. The only difference
between them is their age, Like Cabo is the older ones.

Speaker 3 (01:34:33):
Maybe they thought he was the mastermind. I have no idea, but.

Speaker 1 (01:34:38):
I'm wondering if Simpson is eligible for parole because it's
been you know, I've been looking.

Speaker 2 (01:34:43):
I couldn't find this, what I mean, like, I wasn't
able to really find anything.

Speaker 3 (01:34:46):
Oh crazy, all right, but wow, but I don't know
if it's because the name is also a hard name.

Speaker 1 (01:34:53):
Yeah, Tony Lee Simpson, it's not. Yeah, maybe it's Anthony.

Speaker 3 (01:35:00):
I don't know. Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):
These are kind of juicy, both of these crimes. Thank
you for giving us all the research because I did
not really know about either of these at all.

Speaker 2 (01:35:11):
No, but they are, especially the museum one with that
many millions, Like, that's pretty crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:35:17):
It's also crazy that thirty five years have gone by,
or twenty five years, thirty years or so. Yeah, five
thirty five years have gone by, and like no one
wants the reward, no one's stepping forward, Like it's kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:35:30):
Not well and hopeful. I wonder if we'll be alive
when the paintings are found.

Speaker 1 (01:35:34):
Yeah, yeah, all right, Well we've got a great guest,
so don't go anywhere. Oh my gosh, you guys today.
Our guest is a truly beloved film and television actor.
You may know him from shows like Vikings, Sons of Anarchy, Gotham,

(01:35:57):
Grounded for Life, movies like Jared Guire Blade Zodiac, but
you know him and you love him as the man
trying to win an oscar for his undercover performances. Declan Murphy,
Lieutenant Declan Murphy, please enjoy our chat with the amazing
Donald Log.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
There's been no one that does so many undercover characters
as Declan Murphy.

Speaker 3 (01:36:23):
But back to back.

Speaker 2 (01:36:24):
It's like he's a pedophile in the cell. He's speaking
an accent here. I mean, you got to like do
so many different characters in such a short amount of time.

Speaker 5 (01:36:34):
That was just Warren. Warren like like he knew he
knew that. I like that he wanted to try that.
So yeah too. It was so fun.

Speaker 2 (01:36:44):
Now when we meet you in The Gambler's Fallacy, did
you know there was going to be an arc that
you were going to be back or was this like a.

Speaker 3 (01:36:51):
One way Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:36:52):
The breakdown of it was, I'd come back from doing
Vikings and I had a meeting with this amazing guy
named renou Heller who created Rome and the Mentalist, and
he was doing this show called Gotham, and so I
had a meeting with him and they were like, we're
just starting to set the cast. We'd like to start,

(01:37:14):
you know, we'd like to make this character the first
one we start with. Would you be interested in doing it?
And I said yeah, And then A few days later,
I went up to Oregon and I got a call
from Warren Light and Warren said, you know, I've always
wanted to work with you, and you know we're we

(01:37:36):
want to have a new captain on SBU, and the
idea was for him to come in and be the
captain for as long as so whatever Dan was playing
before him, so it was completely open ended. And then
I said, man, oh dude, I'd love to because it
was a dream come true, but I have already contractually

(01:37:58):
agreed to do this other thing. And so Warren said, well,
let's why don't you do the pilot for GOTAM and
just pum into the show and then do episodes between
the pilot and if it gets picked up. And I
had a feeling Got Them would get picked up, so
I didn't think it was that much of a possibility,

(01:38:19):
but it was. It was. I mean, I love Got Them,
I love the people on it, but Law and Order
SVU was another level of joy and job, and for
many obvious reasons, and then for a lot of other
personal and human reasons, like that job was like the greatest,

(01:38:40):
honestly was I think it was the most thrilling thing
I'd been part of we love.

Speaker 3 (01:38:46):
To hear this, We love that you've done.

Speaker 5 (01:38:49):
I mean it was it was exciting. Yeah, like and
I have I have love for all of them. They're
like you're like children, you know, you're like you love
And there were there was terrier, there were the really
amazing jobs that were kind of heartbreakers and should have
or could have and then but Law and Order SVU

(01:39:10):
was something something so different and it was interesting even
talking to business like people in the industry about it,
because there's a there's something about sometimes in the industry,
people get distracted by the size of the you know,
the glittering marketing of a tool that's like something new
or and it's it's like, man, I don't know why

(01:39:33):
they don't think about this in the same way. But
like Law and Order SVU is like a worldwide and
I'm not going to say religion in a way that
dismisses one or the other. It's just people finds such
deep comfort in it. And not just because it's ripped

(01:39:54):
from the headlines and it's something that's on ten times
a day, but because it speaks to people who have
all been through you know, some level or some form
of trauma. In their lives. It gives voice to people.
It has such a deep spiritual importance. And for some reason,
Marishka and Kelly and Danny and Ice and and everybody

(01:40:17):
just welcomed me like like I had been there the
whole time. But Marishka's it's it's phenomenal because first of all,
she's the best what they so they have this saying
of number one on the call sheet and it's and
it's critical, right because it's a lot of the what

(01:40:39):
the atmosphere and the culture and the health and the joy,
and you know, it kind of starts on top and
it comes down and there's a responsibility on the shoulders
of number ones like Michael Chiklis and the Shield and
just these people I've worked with and really loved. But
you know, Marishka is like the greatest Number one Mama

(01:41:01):
bear ever in this and whether even if Long Order
SCU hadn't become the longest running show of all time,
and et cetera, et cetera, she's just like a next
level human being. And obviously when you've seen it in
that world, even in SCU where people uh, and I
don't understand it necessarily with actors, but you have years

(01:41:25):
on something and somehow you want there's there's a You're like,
there might be a greener pasture out there, and I
want to check it out and explore. And she she
never left, and she also knew that when you're number
one on the call sheet, like I had a not

(01:41:46):
I think I had an opportunity with Grounded for Life
when it is Sick Home, I did when it was.

Speaker 3 (01:41:50):
I watched that in high school.

Speaker 5 (01:41:52):
That was one of my shows, and it made this
really weird move from Box to the WB And there
there was a whole contractual thing where you can kind
of you can get if you want, and you know
that there are like two hundred people and families that
are supported by the fact whether this ship is floating

(01:42:13):
or not. Yeah, And there's a responsibility to the crew,
and there's a responsibility to your bosses. And if you're
on something that's it's like the Discovery Channel like in
the old days, it's like babyca Turtles. There's so many
scripts and then there are so many pilots, and then
there are only so many that get made, and then
there are only so many to get picked up to series,

(01:42:35):
and then there's only this tiny percentage that go beyond
those first one or two seasons. And so if you're
on a situation like that, imperative to stick with it
until it finds its natural conclusion whenever that might be well.

Speaker 2 (01:42:50):
We've also heard that they shoot like rain, shine, snow, whatever,
like they're doing it outside no matter what.

Speaker 3 (01:42:58):
And you shoot in New York all the time. Other
show is not like that.

Speaker 5 (01:43:01):
No, they're all like that. It's honestly, it's honestly, like
can get tricky because I I know on Gotham, you know,
because Gotham had this vibe of being at night, and
so there was a lot where it was like on
a bridge in February in its minus twenty five, and

(01:43:25):
there's there's a physical element to it. Because I never
I got sick on Gotham, but I never missed work.
But there are things where you're like inevitably you get
pneumonia and stuff, but you can't stop. And so for
the film production crews in the world who bikings all
these it's you know, they're in the ocean, it's freezing outside.

(01:43:49):
If it's a really cold night for you somewhere in
Minneapolis or New York to walk from your apartment building
to old foods or whatever it is. That's what they're
doing for fourteen or fifteen hours, you know, and with
a smile and with camaraderie. And yeah, like television crews

(01:44:10):
are American television, and I say this about Canada and
Ireland too. It's kind of like we're like a circus
people worldwide. But they're so hard working and I'm always
I'm never not amazed by just the positivity and the
spree decors and all that kind of stuff. So and yeah,

(01:44:31):
that's you know, yeah, I can't imagine anything. Yeah, there's
nothing that would stop Rainhill, snow sleep whatever. It's not
going to stop. Like, and what people don't necessarily understand
is when you have this widget, so you have twenty
two or twenty four episodes of television that you have
to deliver, and they have to show on whatever night

(01:44:55):
they air at nine o'clock or whatever. So you start
the season in the summer and you have some months
of head start because it takes it almost takes two
weeks to shoot one episode, and so you're making all
these episodes and trying to bank them and when they
start coming out in September or where whatever, it is.

(01:45:16):
It's the timeline start getting closer, and so you have
to deliver it for post production this and that, and
it's a race and you cannot stop that. And I've
I don't know, I think little I'm trying to think.
I think in all of my thirty six years, the
only thing I remember shutting down for production was a

(01:45:40):
few days on Little Women because when on the writer
was really sick or something.

Speaker 3 (01:45:44):
But that's it. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 5 (01:45:46):
You know, I've never personally, I've never missed five minutes
of work in thirty six years, never never called in sick,
pro bones whatever it was. Wow, but that's what. That's what.

Speaker 3 (01:45:57):
Where'd your break a bone? The vikings on Terriers?

Speaker 5 (01:46:01):
I broke my shoulder, and on this slow budge indie
movie I broke my ankle. Oh, but it was Terriers
was weird because it was the last day of the
second episode and I just snapped this bone toward my
laborm and snapped this bone. It's called And then I
knew I was super screwed, and we were all super

(01:46:24):
screwed because I had to be in every scene. And
then I was like, now let's just keep going. There's
no shutting down, and it would have been horrible to
shut down for me because it was such a great opportunity.
But yeah, and I get more mad about getting hurt,
not because it hurts, but because you're like, I'm scared

(01:46:45):
of shutting down the god of production.

Speaker 1 (01:46:48):
Can I ask you a question about Gambler's Fallacy? And
this is so funny because sometimes I think that you're
an Irish actor because you are. You do add Irish accent,
and I actually you came into my consciousness directly, even
though I'm sure I've seen you in a million other
things through Sons of Anarchy, and in my mind you
were one of these Irish guys on Sons of Anarchy,

(01:47:08):
but you weren't in Sons of Anarchy. I was just
completely conflating other characters that you've done. So when you
were doing Gambler's Fallacy and they were like, okay, you're
going to be undercover as Declan Murphy instead of or
as Declan O'Rourke instead of Decla Murphy, were you like,
do you guys want me to do an Irish accent?

Speaker 6 (01:47:24):
Or was that always part of it? It was always
part of it, okay, And it's really hard and in fact,
there was a show I did called Sisters with Sarah
Goldberg who is from Barry and this woman Susan Stanley
from Ireland, and we did season one in Ireland and
I played their Irish dad, And now season two's going

(01:47:45):
down and I have to say, my parents are Irish, yeah,
and they're from a very specific corner of Ireland.

Speaker 5 (01:47:54):
And the accents are so difficult that one I vaguely
know because it's my parents' accent and my uncles and
my cousins, and like, if someone said you have to
do a Dublin accent, I couldn't. I absolutely couldn't. Or
Northern Irish or Cork or there are so many specific

(01:48:15):
accents and so I had to bring it to a
part of the country where I vaguely but it's still
it's so hard.

Speaker 2 (01:48:23):
Also, I wanted so Dan Florik was our first cast
member guest so thrilling, but he said, being the captain
feels like you are a traffic guard, like a crossing guard,
because he's like, you're just always bossing everyone where to go.

Speaker 3 (01:48:40):
I feel like you had more. But did you ever
feel that way?

Speaker 5 (01:48:43):
No, because I never inhabited that role and I wasn't
there long enough for it, And then we had these special,
weird episodes that kind of existed outside of what probably
would have felt that way if if I had stuck around.
But I do feel that there was something. By season fifteen,

(01:49:04):
it seemed like there was legitimate concern about whether they
were coming back. And this was some years before they
This was some years before well Maloney you know.

Speaker 3 (01:49:17):
Was Yeah, it was like a big shakeup, So that
makes sense.

Speaker 5 (01:49:21):
But that was this was seven, when Wind.

Speaker 1 (01:49:25):
Twelve after twelve, so then fourteen fifteen, Yeah, it was
just like.

Speaker 5 (01:49:30):
This thing that happens where it's just political and it's
weird and it's television. And there was something about that
season fifteen that there was like some gas on the fire.
There was something special about that run in when I
was when I happened to be around SVU, I felt

(01:49:51):
like it was crackling and.

Speaker 2 (01:49:54):
Well you Rolins being a bad girl, you know, there
was there's like a lot of term within the department.

Speaker 5 (01:50:02):
And I will say, you know, I've worked with a
ton of amazing people, but there are times where I'm
in the middle of a scene and I can think
of times I can think of a time with Vincentinoprio
and this thing called Steal this movie. I can think
of different times in the middle of a scene with someone,
and one was with Kelly and where I was like,

(01:50:25):
I'm so glad this person has chosen to do what
they are doing with their life for a living because
she's so good. There was a scene in Gambler's Fallacy
where the pregnant girlfriend of the Gallery Money Blounderer we
were in the office behind the casino or whatever it was,

(01:50:47):
and Kelly just cleared her desk off just was like, yeah,
I don't know if it was scripted or not, and
I'm like this, this woman throws down so hard and
she's so easy to do things with. And I don't
know if I did a good job in Gambler's Fallacy

(01:51:08):
or not, but I know from being in it that
I was like, that's like the coolest episode of television
I ever got to be around. And then I got
to meet these people, and then there was this arc
to it where in the read through, I remember when
he reveals he's NYPD Declan Murphy and he's been undercover
and like, i'ms throws his script down and he's like

(01:51:29):
fucking everybody's like, God, what this is like they didn't
know what's coming.

Speaker 2 (01:51:36):
I love it, and as a viewer, were relieved that
Rollins didn't have to like go down on this guy.

Speaker 5 (01:51:41):
We're like, right, and I tell people like that pushed
this long orders for you land so far because when
he's pressing record on me, you know, and it's like
you assume that it went this dark and then it
worked and then for him to go look and it
was so great because he can come in and say

(01:52:02):
she helped, she helped stop this, She helped. Yeah, but
just as someone who killed cops. And the guy's like, well,
I'm gonna have to go to eighth floor with this,
and I'm like, I'm gonna go to the eleventh floor, right,
And then he gets to kind of walk off into
the sunset at the end of the episode, and it's like, who.

Speaker 3 (01:52:22):
Is totally how was this?

Speaker 1 (01:52:24):
He's like talking about himself in third person, He's like,
defly Murphy believes in redemption. Wait, but speaking of being
amazing at what they do, I really really need to
ask you.

Speaker 3 (01:52:38):
We got to ask you about the scene.

Speaker 1 (01:52:40):
We just covered this episode a few weeks ago on
the podcast Thought Criminal, where you are in the cell
with Kevin from the office. I believe the actor's name
is Brian Bryan, but yeah, brought baumb gardener something and
you just pissed yourself. You're undercover as another pedophile and
then you piss yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:53:00):
You are like the.

Speaker 1 (01:53:00):
Oscar winning undercover cop of the NYPD, because that's.

Speaker 2 (01:53:04):
What I was mentioning, because at that episode two you
were a high end photography enthusiast pedophile. Then you're this
like piss your pants like every socioeconomic pedophile you can get,
and then you were an Irish Knitz sweater.

Speaker 3 (01:53:18):
Oh lonely guy, Yeah, lonely guy.

Speaker 5 (01:53:22):
On Vaca, I went, I was just back in Ireland
and we still have a house in kemmy Kerry, and
I was in this kind of quills, you know, Aaron
sweater shop, and the women were like law and order,
law and order, lawn order. And then they said everyone
in Ireland was so bummed out about like he's wearing
the big Irish knit sweater. And I'm like, I understand,

(01:53:49):
but I will say the craziest thing and it's not
it's it happened yesterday. I'm in Boston now for a
few weeks. But the street love and had I stayed
on SVU, obviously it would be more cemented. But the
street love you get for being in sbu Land is

(01:54:12):
so and it's things that and I don't mean they're
super smart agents and managers and all that stuff, but
they don't understand that there were so many jobs I got,
even in the last few years where they were like, well,
I'm glad I made that magic phone call to that
producer or whatever, and I'm like, I know how I
got it. They saw Gambler's Fallacy on TV at two

(01:54:33):
in the morning and they were like, oh my god,
that fucking It's like how much how many people watch it?
How much dust it kicks up? And especially in New
York where you're walking down the street and someone gets
the brakes and they're like, my man, Murphy. It feels
so like the law and Order. It feels so part

(01:54:54):
of the fabric because it's coming into people's homes. Like
why TV is so direct and not regarding I And
now that's how we watched films do But you know,
it's like you're in people's homes with them and they
have this emotional connection.

Speaker 1 (01:55:08):
What are you doing in Boston right now, Donald, what
are you? Are you on a project?

Speaker 5 (01:55:12):
Oh yeah, it's my girlfriend just moved into this apartment
in Cambridge.

Speaker 1 (01:55:16):
Oh so you're not You're not on a project there
right now, You're just visiting, Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:55:20):
I always, I always felt like I was more of
a Boston person than a New York person. And I
really I did time here. I did years here when
I was a little kid in college, and then I
did my years in New York. But Boston is Boston's
produced spectacular.

Speaker 3 (01:55:37):
Well, the big Irish community.

Speaker 1 (01:55:39):
Maybe you felt like the Irish love in Boston.

Speaker 5 (01:55:43):
I felt the Irish love. I felt the Irish awkwardness
in Boston because my parents we came here when I'm
in nineteen in the in the late sixties, and they
were Irish immigrants, like a lot of Irish immigrants do.
But there was a huge community here where where people
are very Irish American. But it's like a hunt that

(01:56:05):
it's one hundred and fifty years removed from when ancestors
came over, and it's that weird. It's a different Irish
American is a different thing. I am very Irish American,
but I'm not Irish like it's a it's a strange Yeah,
it's a strange culture. But here's here's a huge segue

(01:56:25):
that makes no sense. But so one of my closest
friends on Planet Earth, my brother till I die, is
Robert Burke. And so when Robert Burke at the end
of it was it season fifteen or sixteen where he.

Speaker 3 (01:56:42):
Robert John Burke.

Speaker 1 (01:56:43):
Oh, Robert John Burke. We love him. He did our podcasts.
We love him.

Speaker 3 (01:56:48):
We talked to him for a while.

Speaker 2 (01:56:49):
We do want to go to Fire Island and the.

Speaker 5 (01:56:54):
House is phenomenal, and he's the.

Speaker 3 (01:56:56):
Oh my god, he's.

Speaker 5 (01:56:59):
My blood, he's my brother brother. And we met and like.

Speaker 1 (01:57:03):
The listeners are gonna wait, and one of you has
a character that was in love with Robins, and the
other one has a character that was in love with Benson,
and they're like sisters on the show.

Speaker 3 (01:57:12):
This is all coming.

Speaker 5 (01:57:12):
We also met in n like we met in nineteen
ninety two. We were gonna go do We worked on
this Oliver Stone movie called Heaven and Earth in Thailand,
and I thought he was like the coolest dude of
all time. And he's older than me and his parents
are from Ireland like mine. And he's just the greatest.

(01:57:33):
He's so smart, he's so kind, he's he's like a badass,
he's all you know, he's one of those dudes who
it's so weird, Like he's the only person I know
where people are really competitive about other guys will be like, uh, yeah,
Bobby Burke and I'll be like, he's one of my

(01:57:54):
best friends, and they'll go, no, Bobby Burke is my
best friend.

Speaker 3 (01:57:59):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:58:00):
And I'm like, Robert, why the fuck are people so
competitive with you about your male friendships? You know? And
but that was one thing that was sad because we
talked about that because there was there was some discussion
and the I'm like, of course Marishka would fall like
who wouldn't fall in love with Robert Burke. Like that

(01:58:20):
guy's he's like Gabriel Oak from far from the madding crowd,
Like he just is as solid. He's an amazing actor too,
and he's just such a great guy. But when we
got to do and I can't remember what episode it was,
but it was on Roosevelt Island where we got to
kind of square off because he's internal affairs and we

(01:58:41):
got to square off in the.

Speaker 3 (01:58:42):
Hall yeah, and I was like, bet, it's the obsession. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:58:45):
I'm like yeah, I'm like, lock, I get to I
get to Like we were both like, holy shit. You
look at our journeys since nineteen ninety two when we
first sat that cool and all of them and Robert
Burke's this buddy I have. We it's called like we
do this. I don't know why it started in Bencok,
but we'd have this kind of debrief about each other's

(01:59:06):
lives over Turkey club sandwiches and I can measure through
the birth of our children and good things and difficult
things and loss of parents or whatever it is. There's
a Turkey club sandwich. Check him with Bobby Burke. No,
And so, my god, we got to be in this
show together in a hallway. It was Yeah, it was

(01:59:30):
pretty phenomenal.

Speaker 3 (01:59:31):
So that's so cool. Wow, I can't believe. And god
we got that that we got to that, Oh my god. No.

Speaker 1 (01:59:38):
We loved talking to him so much, like he was
the best and like he got tierry talking about his mom,
Like he was so open with us and like he
was just such a great, great guest.

Speaker 3 (01:59:49):
Zodiac.

Speaker 2 (01:59:50):
What was it like working with David Fincher and then
you co wrote Danny Trejose memoir.

Speaker 3 (01:59:54):
So that's all we need to know about both of
those things very quick.

Speaker 5 (01:59:59):
I knew David super like. I knew David from just
kind of around, and I did before the MTV Cab Driver.
I did these weird like Rock the Boat spots or
something with David Fincher as he's school MTV commercials or whatever.
I think he's the greatest, And I yeah, Zodiac was.

(02:00:24):
I think Zodiac is the best film I've ever been in.
It's such a how like Mark Ruffalo is a good friend,
watching Mark and Robert Downey Junior and Jake and like
it was so cool to be around and do And
my little sister was in Zodiac who was my little
sister and sons and terriers and in Zodiac she plays

(02:00:48):
this motorist who comes across Ione Sky's character when she's
looking for a baby, when she throws the baby out
the So anyway, there's all kinds of ties. And I
remember David Venture is such a stickler. There was a
person there was a character in Benjamin Button or something,

(02:01:09):
trying to think of what it was, but they need
to deliver one line. But they couldn't do it, and
he couldn't get anyone in New Orleans, and so David
Fincher flew my little sister out there to do this
one thing, just because he's so specific about what he
wants and granular and then yeah, Danny Trejo, just before
Robert Burke we met, and Danny and Robert are like

(02:01:35):
the trident of the two dudes in my life who
have been in my life in the most critical way
of like, you know, you're going through a breakup with
kids or you know, like the real life stuff, and
they're the dudes that are there. And so Danny I've
been friends with. In nineteen ninety one, I was the
janitor at this drug and alcohol rehabby center place in

(02:01:59):
l and I met Danny because he was coming in
to speak, and we've been super tight since then. And
it was a huge joy to introduce him to Robert
Burke and watch my two super homies come together. And
then yeah, and then you know, Danny said, isn't the

(02:02:21):
world wild? Because when I met you, when you were
a janitor at that place, like, who would know that
God put you in my path that you would be
the one to write my book all those years later
and be trusted enough as a friend to be in
a confidant in that regard. But have a little bit

(02:02:43):
of writing, you know, kind of collegiate writing skills or
whatever not to capture some prose. And but yeah, Danny,
Danny and yeah, Danny and Robert are like my brothers, brothers.

Speaker 1 (02:02:58):
And we've kept you for an We've kept you for
over an hour. And what we could honestly have a
part two with you.

Speaker 3 (02:03:03):
Is so right to talk to your Do you have something?

Speaker 1 (02:03:07):
Do you have anything coming up that you want people
to look out for?

Speaker 5 (02:03:11):
No, I just yeah, if I can leave it with anything,
It's just about the quality of human beings that everybody
at that place, and I'm talking about everybody and every
single sling in department like that's and it wouldn't and
it wouldn't go any other way, Like you couldn't wander
into law and order SDU and not be a cool

(02:03:33):
person and have it. It's like it regulates. There's no,
it's not allowed, you know. And they're just yeah, they're
they're they're phenomenal people. And what are what I was
so fortunate, Like I can't even imagine, Yeah, like how
much rich of my life was because of like that

(02:03:56):
sometimes and.

Speaker 2 (02:03:57):
Your friends and your decades long friendships. That's like an
accomplishment and cool thing as well.

Speaker 5 (02:04:05):
Yeah, it's the most important thing, right like is to
have yeah for us, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:04:11):
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1 (02:04:12):
You Robert Burke our best friend. That is like the
funnest thing ever. Robert John Berke, Sorry, Robert John Berke.
Is there anything you want to Is there anything you
want to plug before?

Speaker 5 (02:04:22):
There's no like the only I'm doing a book because
of the Danny book, but it'll take forever. And the
business is so weird and it's just changing so radically,
and it's pretty fascinating. I mean, they're always going to
be making stuff. It's just yeah, I think unfortunately for

(02:04:44):
people I started in nineteen eighty nine out of Boston,
I've been a you know, I got my SAG card,
I've worked in that business. I've maximized my union credits
in terms of pension blah blah blah, like I had
that built for me in my life. If I've had
health insurance for me and my family, and I don't
know if this new and for the cruise NIATSI and

(02:05:07):
all this stuff. I'm just I don't know any of
the world that I came up with that that kind
of mirrors the Law and Order Dick Wolf franchises, and uh,
you know, so it's it's changing. But Dick Wolf is
actually quite an interestingly cool dude too. And what a
phenomenal Yeah, what a wild what a wild success story.

Speaker 3 (02:05:33):
Seriously, it was so great to talk to you. Donald Bye, Donald,
thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:05:43):
Well that was incredible. Oh my god, somebody I've wanted
to meet. I think since day one. I do bring
up grounded for life, yes, more often than not, and
I'm like, yeah, it was also nice. I watched all
nine of his episodes in prep for it, and it
wasn't It was really funny for me to see all
the undercovers in.

Speaker 3 (02:06:03):
Rapid like that.

Speaker 2 (02:06:06):
It's like, this motherfucker is just like a trunk full
of costumes.

Speaker 3 (02:06:11):
Yeah, but I just like love. I don't know, I
love that guy. He works so much, he's so appreciative
of his career, Like he seems like he loves everybody
he works with. I mean, I think, I don't.

Speaker 1 (02:06:23):
I just I was happy to get one of Rollin's
baby Daddy's you know what I mean, Like that's a
get that's a get for us.

Speaker 2 (02:06:29):
Yeah, I mean, Rollin's the fact that she has a
job at all, and as a professor, like the fact
that that bitch has a pension.

Speaker 3 (02:06:36):
And not in jail Like I cannot, I cannot.

Speaker 1 (02:06:40):
It is one of the wildest stretches of the imagination
that s FU makes us, makes us participate in, Like
this whole episode is so crazy.

Speaker 2 (02:06:51):
Like just that she's but she had us too, like
just having that sort of twist handed like you know.

Speaker 1 (02:06:58):
Yeah, well like also, well, I mean we forget that,
like whatever happened when the video camera came on, Rollins
was ready to get down on her knees, like she
was ready to fuck this guy to keep her career
and keep her life.

Speaker 5 (02:07:10):
You know.

Speaker 1 (02:07:11):
So you do get a sense of, like she is
very good at conveying I think the rock bottomness of
gambling addiction, and like any kind of addiction where you're
just like, Okay, I guess I one bad decision to
try to fix the last bad decision, stacked on top
of each other forever, you know, Like but this time

(02:07:31):
I think maybe it's stuck.

Speaker 5 (02:07:33):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:07:33):
It feels like she doesn't gamble anymore now, now that
she's got three kids.

Speaker 3 (02:07:37):
No, I don't think she.

Speaker 2 (02:07:39):
I think Cariese's keeping her on the straight and narrow,
and I think.

Speaker 3 (02:07:44):
I think she learned. She might, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (02:07:46):
It's just it because I was about to say she's
learned for good, but I'm like, she might have actually
had more past this, Like I don't remember the order
of her transgression, but I also don't know if this
is pre your post, like lying for her sister, and
I mean, yeah, she's lying all the time. Tomorrow's killing
unarmed black teens. We have Benson covering for her brother.

(02:08:10):
I mean, this goes on and on with the illegal
stuff that are but the fact that he I'm glad
you remembered when we asked him about the super Bowl
episode because when he didn't fully remember at first, and
I was like, does that blue leopard print top not
live in your head? Excuse me? Bearing what the fuck
are you talking about? Oh my god, I don't know

(02:08:30):
if I already mentioned this on the pot or not
Kill Me whatever. Season nine of SVU is on Delta,
so I put it on, not thinking put on alternate, Like,
let's go, what was I wearing?

Speaker 3 (02:08:42):
My full cast SVU sweatshirt.

Speaker 2 (02:08:47):
People probably assumed I had some sort of emotional problems,
like the fact that I'm wearing the sweatshirt watching the show.
I'm like, and then I met a baby in a
Miss Rachel shirt and I'm like, oh, okay, I am
I'm a baby. Well that's it makes sense.

Speaker 3 (02:09:05):
When Jared gold See was just like, you're a fucking nerd.

Speaker 2 (02:09:07):
I can't believe you don't know that, And then I'm
sitting there in a nice sweatshirt on the show being like, Wow,
I'm a nerd.

Speaker 3 (02:09:15):
I'm a nerd.

Speaker 1 (02:09:17):
I don't think you're that big of a nerd. Well,
you're a nerd over certain things. Everybody's a nerd over
some shit. You're a Luigi nerd, that's for sure, I know.
And John Love it was not fully having it. He's well,
his listeners, I don't know, he's gotta be like.

Speaker 3 (02:09:33):
You know, but he said it.

Speaker 2 (02:09:34):
He actually was pretty clever because we obviously I brought
you up in Jared like the two people I know
that goes to his holiday party, so I was like, oh,
we have mutual so we brought the podcast up, and
then I also with Luigi, I was just like, well,
you know, Ariostour's done, so now we all have a
new thing. And then once we start talking about the podcast,
he goes, oh, you like mysteries, He goes, you like secrets, mysteries,

(02:09:56):
figuring stuff out, and I go, yeah, you really figured
it out for me. That's what I'm into. Wow, Like
I just hadn't heard it so plainly said to my face.
And I liked it, and he yeah, I think he
got me.

Speaker 1 (02:10:09):
Well, the thing with the sv too is like the
first half of the show is usually mysteries, and then
the second half is like a justice system that will
never be real, you know, like the feeling of the
feeling of fulfillment of a of a criminal getting.

Speaker 3 (02:10:23):
With Sometimes the mystery never ends, you know, in the
second part. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:10:30):
But back to this episode. Also, I really loved these
two crimes. I mean I didn't love I don't love crimes.
I don't love anyone getting murdered. But I had never
heard of these two nineties crimes of like this big
art heist and this like murder of this prince and princess, like.

Speaker 2 (02:10:47):
Carrie, you won't even believe this. I was out socially.
I was actually at the Hermiceo. I went to the
Hermiceo to make some of our friends, and someone brought
up the museum. I got to like, flex, yeah, it's
so fresh in my brain because sometimes the thing's going
out or I can dup it some pieces, but it
was like so fresh in my brain that I got

(02:11:09):
to yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:11:10):
Kind of see.

Speaker 1 (02:11:11):
Yeah, the similar situation, we were all sitting around the
dinner table in New Hampshire, me and my camp girls,
and somebody goes, you know what I just found out
about this guy in Austria, FRITZL And I go, get
the fuck out of here right now. I know every
single fucking thing about this guy that you'll ever need
to know. Like, like she was trying to tell the story,
I go, are you seriously gonna sit here and tell

(02:11:31):
the story in front of me?

Speaker 3 (02:11:32):
Like okay?

Speaker 2 (02:11:32):
Like it was, Oh my god, the movie theater by
my house is playing Silence of the Lambs.

Speaker 1 (02:11:38):
Ooh, I would love to see Sons of the Lambs
on the big screen.

Speaker 3 (02:11:41):
I never have. That is cool. That is really cool.

Speaker 2 (02:11:45):
All right, all right, how we could help.

Speaker 1 (02:11:50):
Let's get to our Yeah, let's get to our What
would sister Peg do this week? For what Sister peg Do,
which is our weekly segment where you guys know, we
direct you towards uh an organization and article, a book,
a doc something to give you more info about what
that today's episode was about. And we'd like to point
you to the National Council on Problem Gambling. This organization
is the only national nonprofit organization that seeks to minimize

(02:12:11):
the economic and social costs associated with gambling addiction. One
of their programs is one eight hundred Gambler, which is
quote a one stop hub connecting people looking for assistance
with a gambling problem to local resources. You can actually
go on their website and there's like a full map
of the United States and you can click on your
state and get local, local resources, which is I think
is great. So for more information on this organization, go

(02:12:32):
to NCP gambling dot org or call one eight hundred
Gambler and that, as usual, will be posted in a
story on our Instagram, which is Thats Messed Up Pod
the day this episode comes out, and then we save
those stories forever in our WWSPD highlights.

Speaker 3 (02:12:47):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (02:12:48):
For that, and it is yeah local, I love that,
I like it being a hub. Hooked season six, Episode fifteen,
Get at It Motherfucker's huluc.

Speaker 5 (02:13:02):
VP.

Speaker 1 (02:13:02):
Guys, thank you so much for listening and keep sending
us episode requests on our Instagram or anywhere.

Speaker 2 (02:13:09):
And uh yeah Jack, we'll get more ga, we hear you.
We'll get more guests. And I loved everyone typing to
David Lynch. It made me so happy.

Speaker 3 (02:13:17):
Yes, thank you for the David Lynch heads.

Speaker 1 (02:13:19):
You guys will listen. Yeah, all right, we love you
with see you next week. Bye.

Speaker 2 (02:13:33):
That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

Speaker 1 (02:13:36):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Follow the
podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on
Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at
Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese. As always, please see
our show notes for sources and more information.

Speaker 2 (02:13:56):
Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and.

Speaker 1 (02:14:03):
To our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner,
and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive
producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at
Exactly Right Media.

Speaker 3 (02:14:18):
Dun dun,

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Liza Treyger

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