Parole Violations w/ Michael Chernus

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done done,

(00:28):
Hello again and welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.
I'm one of your hosts, Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
We talk SVU crime celeb guests up top. We chit chat,
we catch up because it's not like we don't see
each other constantly, but it is nice to catch up. Well,
I sent you a news story. Should we start there
or do we want to start with some Oh, tour dates?

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah, let me tell everybody the tour dates really quick. Guys,
just announce we just announced a loss Angela's show. So
let me go down through June. What we're doing. We're
going to be at Cobbs in San Francisco on June eighth.
We're going to be at the Tempe Improv in Tempe,
Arizona on June fifteenth. We're gonna be at Denver Comedy
Works in Denver on June twenty fifth, and then we'll

(01:16):
be at the Bourbon Room in Los Angeles. On the
twenty ninth, La. We need you to show up for this.
We've moved venues. We love the venue we did before,
but we're trying to do something a little splash here
with guys. I just went to this place. Remember I
talked about going to see Broadway Barbara. I went there
to see her. It's such a fun venue. It's really cool.
There's cool drinks, there's good I had tater tots that

(01:37):
were delicious. The come for the tots, stay for the SVU,
let's get let's let's sell out this room. I know
we have a ton of listeners in La and you
guys got to come to our live shows. And you're
to drive if you're from other places. Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yesterday my sister texts me and she goes, my friend
Rna is coming here show in San Diego tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
I go, I'm not in San Diego. The what is
she doing?

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah? She goes, well, she said she's going to your
show in San Diego. I go, we'll tell her to
fuck off. But it's because there's a comedy store in
La Joya. And she was confused, so she was just
looking at the comedy yeah in La. But I thought
that was funny and silly. Yeah, we have to sell
out la.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
So yeah, you guys got to come out, experience the
magic and tell your fat you're in Azusa. Come on
down yard and bring friends. Like everybody that comes to
our shows brings drag alongs people, that's what we call them.
People that don't listen to the pod, and they always
have such a good time. And you know, I think
some of them start listening, but maybe they don't. They

(02:39):
just have a beautiful night. But yeah, our live shows
are PowerPoint jokes, fun stuff. It's not just us sitting
at a folding table like doing the podcast, although that
would be fun too, but it's extra shit. So come
on out. Is there anything business wise? As always, guys,
we're on TikTok now and sv pod on TikTok and also.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Want to be our intern come come shoot content with us.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yeah, and then we've got merch up. It's at the
link in our bio so on Instagram, which is that
smussed up pod, So come buy some of our fun
merch we got. We're gonna putting out new merch soon
I think too. And that's that. So yeah, Lisa sent
me this article over the weekend and was like, we're
talking about this article BuzzFeed. It's the wildest thing I've

(03:29):
ever read, Lisa, do you want to summarize?

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, So basically, this dude wants to propose to his
girlfriend and he thought it would be funny to fake
kidnap her. And I guess there was miscommunication with the
hired guns.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Well, they were his friends.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
So while she was running every woman's fear, she gets
snatched in a van by a group of men who
restrain her and physically assault her in the car.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
They take her phone, they have her pin down. One
guy's caressing her upper thigh like they're trying to make
her feel like, this is it for you, babe. You're
either going to get raped or murdered or both.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
And then they you know, she's flipping out. She thinks
she's gonna die, and then they just like throw her
out of the van and the guy's there to propose
to her, and she's like, I never want to see
him again. So I think the police are called. We
don't know what charges are going to be brought onto people.
The boyfriend is devastated, but he's giving her space, and

(04:33):
she her life is ruined and I don't really know.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Some of the other details are that what the boyfriend
wanted to happen was he wanted his friends to like
pull up in a van, jump out like not even
in masks, and like hand her a note that's like,
your boyfriend wants to see you at this location. Resistance
is futile, so that she would like know immediately this
is a jokey thing. But his friends he hired, He
had one friend to it, and then that friend got

(04:58):
two friends, and those two friends were like, now we
need to up the antimore and like terrify her, like
that'll make it more fun. And they were like laughing
the whole time while she was terrified, Like I just
it's so fucked, Like it's so fucked because it's not
a joke.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, scaring someone into one of the worst things that
can happen to you is not it.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
I don't get the joke.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
And I bet these guys are just like, well, everyone's
gotta lighten up. It's like and someone is crying and
flipping out, like you stop. Yeah, but also, how many
movies did you not watch? Like to the friend, you
don't hire random people. They will shoot to the place
you're trying to rob. Like how many movie examples are there,

(05:45):
like you don't bring a random extra dude to do
a job ever, Yeah, and also Jawbreaker, such a lesson.
Don't fake kidnap anybody like the Risks and like, I
bet she'll never wrote probably be able to run, or
at least for a while. I mean, so she's in
full like your body because actors with us a lot,

(06:07):
and I feel like they're probably lying, But your body
doesn't know the difference between fake and real.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yes, you know your body is that trauma response is
like real in her, and that's gonna be there, you know,
even though the relief of it not being real washes
over your brain.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
I feel like your body remembers. Yeah, do we do
a poll, would you still marry him or what? Like?

Speaker 1 (06:30):
I don't. I think you know the answer to that
bowl pretty much. I think there might be charges against
the guys, like not the boyfriend, I don't think, but
against the like friends that should be.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, you don't snatch a woman, throw her in a
van and touch her and think you're gonna Yeah you
think that's a show. Yeah, you belong in prison, because
what else are you doing? Yeah, psycho what else do
you think is funny, sir? It's twisted, man. And I
was reading it in the middle of the night.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, when you sent it to me, I was like,
oh my god, this is terrifying. And then I told
my husband and he was like, what, oh my god,
Like he was like taking it more seriously than I did,
but though I took it very seriously. What were your
final thoughts on the met Gala curious.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
I loved it. I really, I really loved Anne Hathaway.
I think she's my favorite. I love Dualipa, so I
think I like the the tweet of it all I
think was my favorite. Yeah, I thought people turned it out.
Some people were boring, but maybe he was boring, you
know what I mean. Yeah, I think Lizzo looked bad.
I think her stylists fucked up, like, don't understand that look.

(07:43):
I think am Rada, I guess, was boring, but I
thought everyone turned it out, like I like, I liked
seeing it, and I think Anne Hathaway did the best.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
I don't know that designer well enough, like I don't
know Carl Lagerfeld well enough to be like, who's doing
it well or not? I'm just kind of reacting to
like the books.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah, I guess he designed for Chanel, so he was
like head of Chanel for many years, and then Chloe
and then probably other places that I don't know about.
So Chanelle is like tweed Bo's Pearls and that's you
know what people.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Mostly, Yeah, was it you that sent us a thing
that was like Anne Hathaway just coming back to tell
all of you guys to fuck off after you all
turned on her, Like there was some meme that was
like everybody turned on Anne Hathaway and now she's fucking
back to make you eat it.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, And people just hated her because she was too earnest,
like she was a theater kid and it's like whataz.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
I think Zua and Anne Hathaway are my favorites and
they're both kind of similar, so that's embarrassing for me.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
But who there were other people I liked.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
I like some Oh, Kara Delavine loved her like high
high black tight boots and then a white like puffy
like a play on his shirts. Everybody looks really gorge
I feel like it's so many people looking hot.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
I loved.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
I loved does after party look a lot? Oh, I
love Emma Chamberlain. I liked both her looks a lot.
I thought she did awesome. I think Janelle Monet always
turns it out, and I'm glad the guys are finally
like having fun.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Usually it's only like two to three guys.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, sparkling and this it seemed like a lot of
the dudes were like turning it out and being.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, I'm looking at this guy, Alton Mason who's in
like a wedding wedding kind of like jumpsuit with a veil,
and it looks really cool. Yeah. I was just wondering
because I just feel like I loved Was there a
cockroach or something at the mac Gala.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, there was a cockroach on the stairs and people
were like, who are you wearing?

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, it's like cocker over here over here.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
I think someone then smushed the cockerroach and it was
like people were doing like rips like twenty twenty three
to twenty twenty three, the Life of the Cockerroach, you
know whatever.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
So there were three cats.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
It was Doja Cat, Little nas X and Jared Letto
were the cats of the evening. I gotta see all
these cats. Go look at the cats. Pick your chop.
I think Jared Leto I just hate so much. And
I was talking about him with other people last night,
where I guess Anne Hathaway mentioned when she worked with
him that she never met Jared Letto, she only met

(10:22):
the character Adam, And I'm like, I just hate these
kinds of actors. I really really do. Like, get a grip,
get a grip that I can. I kind of like
what he's wearing. It's I kind of like that he's
just in like, I love it. He's my favorite cat. Yeah,
because I bet that's like a fifteen thousand dollars cap.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah. Little nas X looks cool too, but doja cat?
I don't. The prosthetic stuff kind of freaks me out
a little bit. I just have to be honest. Like
her outfit, her body, like everything looks great, umber outfit,
but like the cat face. I'm like, I like the
idea of like glamour but twisted, you know, like glitter,
glitter sexy. But then he I have a cat face.

(11:01):
I like it. But both your and.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Little Lazak's did the same bit, which I think is embarrassing,
and they answered all their interview questions with me now,
so it's like, you know, they should have maybe talked
a little beforehand.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Is there something caddy about Carlagerfeld? Like is he a
cat person? Yeah? He had a cat. Yeah, oh catty
love Okay, because otherwise Jared Letto's doesn't make a ton
of sense to me. I mean, the other two can work,
I feel like, but his being like full mascot anyway. Yeah,
I just wanted to ask you because I know that
you you consider the ball a full event, so I

(11:36):
wanted to hear your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
I don't know if it's unique to me. I think
it's an event and our friend in the art world.
I don't normally pay attention to it, but you I know,
love it. Yeah, And I've been to the and I've
been to the you know museum before to see I
went to the camp Collection.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Oh my god, Caara, I know where we have to
start the episode. God.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
So in San Francisco, I there was like a twenty
two year old young comic who said Whitney Houston is
not a real artist because she doesn't write her own music.
And I schooled him. I taught him in a kind
amazing way. After I did to go take a shot
of whiskey it really like fucked with my constitution that
anyone would say that. Last night, I was sitting with

(12:19):
the I think they're in a cult. I think these
comics are in a cult. They were saying that Joe
Rogan is as famous in the same level as Beyonce. No,
and I was just like no, and they kept trying
to convince me, and I go, no, no, we can disagree.
I have no argument. I'm not a Beyonce, I'm not
in the Beehive. I'm just telling you, as an objective person,

(12:39):
out of all of this Beyonce, more people know who
Beyonce is than Joe Rogan.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
Also, are you just talking about the United States of America.
Beyonce's a worldwide superstar. Nobody in France knows who fucking
Joe Rogan is.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Well, And then at towards the end, then other people
started agreeing with me, because me and my friend Charlie
were just like, more like, even if you're not a
fan of Beyonce, you know who Beyonce is. There are
millions of people in this in the state let.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Me live who don't know who Rogan. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Total, And then all of a sudden he goes, well,
I mean like the reach and the influence. I go, no, no, no,
you said more famous than you're wrong, and now you're
trying to like switch it all around.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
But these people are just they're in occult of Joe Rogan.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Also, I went to his club while we were there
in Austin and it was gorgeous. I was raving about
it to you. I just found out from someone else.
So there's like a comedian balcony that you could watch everything,
and then a VIP balcony, and I guess Alex Jones
and Elon Musk hang out there.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
So I'm never gonna obviously go back. But yeah, that's
yikes all around.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Ye.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
I was so excited. I was telling you. I was like,
this is the best club. They're paying everyone amazing. It
looks gorgeous, the green rooms incredible. And then I just
found out that fully Alex Jones hangs out there.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Oh my god. It's like sick. You gotta stop with
the fucking Alex Jones, you guys. He Oh my gosh. Anyway, wait,
I was just gonna say something to you.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
But to think that Joe Rogan and Beyonce are on
the same level of fame, I'm like, you guys are
truly in a cult.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
You're in a cult. He's like eleven million.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
I go, just Instagram followers alone, she probably has two
hundred something million, and she barely posts, and he's in
double digits if he's even broken, twenty MILIK like, I
don't even know. And they go, well, a lot of
those followers are fake. I go, you're an idiot. I go,
you're all idiots. And Emma, I'm like, you don't even
have to be a fan of Beyonce. But you know
her children's names, you know single ladies. You know.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
I just found out I'm in the comedy community, and
I just found out Joe Rogan is married and has kids.
I don't know anything about him. I know all of
Beyonce's information. She has three hundred and twenty eight million followers.
He has sixteen point nine.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
It's millionsane, and he goes, well, some of them are fake,
and it's like.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Babe, even if half a hard day, even if half
of her followers are fakes, she has twenty times as
many as Joe Rogan.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
And they kept trying to argue, and I straight up gwent,
I have no I go, I don't need to.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
They're literally telling you the sky is green. There's nothing
you can do, you can't argue, and he goes, stop
trying to be the bigger person. I go, oh, I'm
not trying. I don't I know.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
I'm like, there's nothing that you can say that would
make you correct in any way.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, And then people are.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Like, well, yeah, but he influences the way people live
their lives more than Beyonce, it like in terms of
the and I'm like, you guys are idiots.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
This is the same guy that said Whitney Houston's not
an artist, because this is an La different guy.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
The people in LA are obsessed with Joe Rogan to
a place where they like, I don't know if they
think that one day they will get anointed by him,
but to him, to them, they.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
Are he is a guy.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, though I think it's delusional to think he's more
famous then Beyonce.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
It is literally like one plus one is seven, Like
it doesn't make any sense. But I was gonna say,
since we're on the subject, I did see I want
to dance with somebody on a plane, and I do
get more emotional on planes. But I really loved it.
I talked to my friend last night, Nicole, and she
was like, I did not like it. Whinnie Houston did
crack for twenty years. Why didn't I see any of that?

(16:22):
I was like, well, it's like a PG thirteen movie
that they're trying to make about her life. I don't
think they show. They showed the drug use, of course,
but they didn't show like twenty she goes, she goes,
Whitney Houston wore diapers at one point because she would
just walk around and biss herself. I go, yeah, I
don't think I want to see that in the movie.
But we can agree to disagree. Maybe in twenty years

(16:42):
we could get a movie like that. It's a little fresh. Yeah, yeah,
in twenty years we can get the gritty biopic where
it's got all the horrible shit, it's like so sad.
But this movie was just like nice if you're on Delta.
I just loved, like seeing how she came to fame.
She's like truly a voice of a generation, Like no
one to me is like Whitney, Like even the best voices,

(17:03):
I feel like no one is as good as her.
But let's get started. This is a great episode and
we gotta go all right, all right. This episode is
called Parole Violations. It's from season sixteen, episode fifteen, and

(17:25):
we start out with a big ass teddy bear in
our face and it's being held by Bella Careesi and
she is played by Maren Ireland, who's been in a
ton of stuff. She's also in that episode called Confrontation,
which is has the guy from House of Cards who
assaults women based on their ovulation calendar because he's trying
to have some sort of like Psycho master Race fantasy.

(17:48):
And so she's in that episode. And now she's been
brought back as Bella Creesy. I thought she was like recurring,
but she's only been in this one episode as Bella.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
It's so interesting. It's ovulation. I always think of him
as the piss guy. Oh right, the pis guy. Yeah,
but ovulation is more normal. Yeah, I mean, neither are
that normal. But yeah, I guess the ware.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
But he I thought he was hot in House of Cards.
Oh you did? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (18:14):
I like Michael Keller, Yeah yeah, I like, I mean,
you know it, But what's the like, what's the help
a Henchman? I guess isn't hot. But I did love
Doug Stamper in House of cards, and he is he's
sort of more than a henchman. He's not just like
hired muscle, because he's kind of a strategist too.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Like he's like, we're gonna make it to the top together,
like Ruthless.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
But he's the first person I would say with a
bozo haircut that I was like fully attracted to.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
He does have a bozo He needs to just give
up the ghost and shave all the way around. No,
he makes it, you like it. I like him. I
like him. Well, he's been in a bunch of svs too.
He was in Slaves. Okay. So she is holding this
teddy bear and showing Sonny CARRESI, you know our boy crisy. Oh,
I will just call Cariesy from now and I will

(19:06):
be talking about him and not the sister. And she's like, oh,
this is how many decorated the baby's room, like a
crib over dan and then a changing table over that,
and it's just like a hoarding room that's filled with junk.
And she's just showing him like where she might put stuff.
Carrisee's like, sounds great, but you can tell he's kind
of judging it. Bella still hasn't told their mom aka
Sarah Fina Carresi aka Beverly di'angelo, a dear friend of

(19:28):
the pod, and she hasn't told her yet because she's
waiting to get hitched to Tommy and mon talk soon
and this is another SVU Tommy. I'd like to give
a shout out to our listener, Christina s who has
emailed us an extensive list with all the Tommies. Yes,
we've met her, but she I looked up the email
list yesterday and was like, it is truly mind blowing

(19:50):
how many Tommies there are in this series. Like I
need to get to the bottom of, like, what's going on?
Does someone I think it's just an easy name.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
It's like Billy, It's like, oh, okay, get Tommy Firefighter. Yeah,
I mean, it's just a lot of fucking Tommy's. Also
shout out to my friend Tommy Mack while we're at it.
Oh yeah, so many Tommy's.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
The Tommy Sullivan comes in and he is played by
Michael Chernis, who is in tons of stuff like he's
in severance right now, but I always know him immediately.
Ask Piper's brother for Orange is the New Black and
he's about to meet his parole officer. He's like on
his way and Bella's like, Sonny, what do you think
Tommy got a promotion? And like he's like, yeah, now
I'm the head like schlepper because I guess he's a mover.

(20:33):
And Carisey's like, oh, tell your PO about the promotion.
That's brownie points and he's just like I just want
to get there early so I can leave early. They
have a doctor's appointment to get their first sonogram blah
blah blah. So Tommy tells Carisey, oh, did I did
I tell you I popped the question? Or did she
tell you I pop the question? She's going to make
an honest man out of him, and Carisey's like, cool, awesome, Yeah,
you deff seem good enough for my sister. Like you

(20:54):
can just see he's like great, like and but he's
like happy for his sister and he hugs her and
he's like, I am happy for you. So now we
cut to Tommy in the hallway of his po's office
and he's got like a twitching leg. He looks anxious
and he's like he's alway, I actually wrote in my notes.
He looks anxious, leg twitching, et cetera. A listener did
take the time to message me that I was saying

(21:15):
et cetera and it's et cetera. So I have corrected
myself and I'm learning and growing here on the podcast.
So what is it? What is it? And what's the
wrong way? It's etcetera, Like it's et cetera. It's not
et cetera, like I'm saying it with like an X.
Oh interesting, Yeah, it's et cetera. It is Latin, so
you know, we should all be speaking this dead language correctly.

(21:37):
The po shows up down the hall and it's fucking
icon to me and Lisa. Susan Sharon from Sex and
the City aka Molly Price is the actor's name. I
didn't realize she was on one hundred and thirty episodes
of the show Third Watch, So she's a regular on
that show. If you ever watch that.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
That makes me happy that you know, I know she's
a Schillan's property.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, I know, I know she's been good.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
And that makes me sleep better at night knowing that
Susan Sharon is she's retired.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yes, well yeah, yeah, totally. I mean that's a fucking
ton of network money in her pocket. So she's also
been in so many great things, but like that is
the thing that she was on for a long time
and she I mean, I don't know, she's almost too
funny for this role. She like comes walking in and
she's like, Tommy Sullivan, you're still here, good for you.
And then she's obviously kept waiting for a long ass

(22:28):
time and don't give a shit.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
She is great and I'm glad she got to be
in just like that because she really livened up that funeral.
So I hope I bring back Yeah, yeah, I really.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
I want more of her. I want more Susan Sharon.
I mean that's like a good part and a good
actor because there are a million people on Saturday on
Sex and the City, and like, I know, we know
a lot of them in you, especially because you're like
huge into that show. But like she sticks out. I
feel like just so many people for that arc that
she did. She's like, apparently he's been waiting herself.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Also, well, Sex and the City is filled with lessons,
but that one is so I think in everyone because
it's in everyone's lives, like are you honest or not
with your friends?

Speaker 1 (23:14):
When you don't like their significant other.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, And I feel like people think about Susan Sharon often.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Because of that.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
That's a lesson you think about a lot, Like you
might not always have to think about some of the
other goofiness, you know, like not you might not be like, oh, I'm.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Blowing a guy who has bad smelling sperm or whatever.
That might not be your thing. But like everybody has
met a spouse or a boyfriend or girlfriend of a
friend and been like not for me.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yeah, like not everyone has yeah, has a premature ejaculator
or someone that needs to fuck with porn or is
all these weird things, but everyone's like, fuck, am I
honest with my friend or not?

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Or do you put up with us? Or should they leave?
Or should they not?

Speaker 2 (23:58):
And she was fun and she kept talking about him
and then the dog.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
You know, it's like but then, don't you think there's
like kind of another weird like lesson or at least
something to think about in that one where it's like
they kind of this they're like this couple that like
gets off on fighting, Like even though everyone's like leave, leave,
then she's like she like loves fighting with him, Like
aren't they isn't.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
Well, yeah, but then the dog like saves them, so
then they're they're not fighting with the dog at the end.
So maybe they did need the dog to not fight,
or or they are repeating, you know, bad habits from
their past that they like to fight with each other.
I have no idea, but yeah, she did, you know,
but I think they stayed friends. Like I don't think

(24:40):
Susan Sharon really cares or listens to what anyone else
is saying, right, I don't think she remembered that Carrie
was like leave him. But it wasn't even that they
were fighting. He was yelling with her there.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
That was weird, right, I think I think about that
couple a lot when, like I see a couple where
the man's being like rude and abusive in front of
other people, like cause it was kind of more. There's
people's spouses I meet where I'm like, I just don't
like you. I don't think you're being bad to my friend,
I just don't like you. And then there's like this
Susan Sharon couple too, where it's like he's being very
emotionally abusive, but then it kind of seems like she's like,

(25:15):
let me handle this. I could do it, you know,
like maybe she kind of I don't think she likes it,
but maybe that's like people have generational trauma. That could
be how they think relationships go one hundred percent. Because
also it's like I doubt Susan Sharon's constantly bringing friends
home in the middle of the night. Sure, well, I
don't like her in this show because no keeping somebody

(25:36):
waiting for two plus hours. This poor guy has been
waiting since two o'clock. He had a doctor's appointment at four,
and she's like, oh, what was the thing at four
o'clock because he didn't say it was a doctors appointment,
and he's really beating around the bush like not telling
her what the thing was, and she's like, you should
have made it for a different day, and he's like, well,
it's actually for my fiance, Bella's she's pregnant and it

(25:56):
was a doctor appointment for her and Donna, which is
I do want to call her Susan Sharin the whole time,
but her name is Donna Marshall. And Donna looks like
she's been kind of sucker punched when she finds out
he's engaged, and she's pregnant, and then she goes around
and gets him a cup and is like, oh, I
think we need to do a urine test and he's
like right here, and she's like yeah, the bathroom is
flooded and he goes still, which implies that she's used

(26:20):
this excuse before, and she goes, you can decline and
I'll ship your ass up state right now. Fucked up.
And then she closes the blinds and he has this
like panic book on his face, like he's definitely being,
you know, about to be forced to do something he
doesn't want to do. Cut to CARIESI trapesing around the
precinct with a box of Canoli's, like a full caricature

(26:40):
like he was at the beginning, and he gives one
to Rollins. Tomorrow's like no, and then she's like, don't
make me eat alone. It's like cop sweet talk or
whatever about like fatty pastries. And then Bella barges in
and he's like, Soney, where have you been. I've been
texting you all morning. Tell me didn't come home last night,
and his phone is going straight to voicemail. So she's
in a full panic. Obviously, Big bro Sonny's gonna figure

(27:02):
this out. We cut immediately to the eleventh Precinct where
Carisee's walking out of this police station with Tommy because
he got into some kind of like wasted bar fight
the night before, and I guess he's been in like
a holding or the drunk tank the night before. So
Carisey's like, I'm not covering for you with Bella. Also,
your po's gonna find out, and he goes, yeah, I'm
not that worried about that, and he's like, well you

(27:23):
should be because he's and he's like, no, my po's
a woman. And then very quickly it just comes out
where he's like, she made me do her like and
Caresey flips his shit and he's like, you cheated on
my pregnant sister like pulls Tommy like slams them up
against a police cruiser and he's like, I didn't want to.
She pulled her gun. Please don't tell Bella. And then

(27:45):
we're at the credits, so of course he's gonna that's
his sister.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, you think bro code over family then you don't know, Sonny. Yeah,
And it's like when we find out very soon they've
got a long history with this family. He's never picking
you over Bella and Careasey at the top of Act
one is telling Live the whole situation. It sounds like
Tommy's been kind of walking the line for a while
between being a fuck up and getting his shit together,
and just when they think he's gonna like turn it

(28:10):
all around, he usually fucks up again and lives like
there's no perfect victims. You know, she's always like seeing
the full side of it, and Caresey explains how Tommy
basically decided to combine weed with delivering pizza.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
You know what an entrepreneur. If you ask me, I
don't think that sounds like he didn't fucking murder anyone.
He wasn't dealing crack. I mean weed and pizza they
kind of go hand in hand. He got three years
in jail for that, hope that probably wouldn't be such
a heavy offense today, and his sister waited for him.
The sister Bella waited for him while he did that.
Now he's out on parole and now this Live tries

(28:44):
to convince Caresy that Tommy's a victim and needs to
support and Tommy doesn't even understand that he was assaulted.
Caresey explains that Tommy claims that after the urine test,
she pulled the gun forced him to have sex, and
that he but Caresee's like he must have been into
it or it wouldn't have worked. And this is like
a theme that goes on through the entire episode is
like how do you get a boner if you don't

(29:06):
like it? And it's like in twenty fifteen, I'm just
surprised that that's still like a well, this is.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
What I'm gonna say. It's twenty fifteen for us. We've
been watching s to you for a while. But Sonny
just joined the force.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
That's true. That's true.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Monny's just a bumble ahead from Saten Islands. He doesn't
he doesn't understand that men can get raped.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah, but even doing.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Research for this crime, all the news articles are like
they won't call it rape. It is like interesting, whoa,
it's all like for forced into sex, like it is
forced into sexual interport. Yeah that's rape, Like all the
language won't say wow. So it is like even now,

(29:50):
I mean internet comments I just read for rage, but
I'm sure the internet would be like most people won't
believe it.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yeah, yeah, now you know, yeah, Yeah, it's just like
it just keeps popping up, like every single person we
meet in this episode is like, but how'd he get
the boner?

Speaker 2 (30:07):
So it's really confusing and so kay laughing like bono.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
But how do you get the boner? Is that merch? Okay?
So like, basically Cariesy doesn't believe male rape as possible.
And this is like rule number one for US view detectives.
People can get sexually aroused in assault situations, like they
say even like sometimes women can like orgasm during a
sexual assault, Like it's not it's just like a bodily

(30:35):
response and lives gives Live gives coursy shit like and
he's like he's a victim and he's certainly not gonna
trust you with any of the details or opening up
to you the way you're acting. So now live in tomorrow,
go see Tommy at his job. He doesn't really want
to talk to them. It looks fucking freezing and he's moving.
I'm like, can you guys like catch up with him
during lunch? Like this is they got to stop him.
He's like they can all see their breath. These guys

(30:56):
are moving huge arm wars and lives like, look, you're
just going to go to your po next week and
hope this doesn't happen again, and he's like, yeah, I
only have three months left. I'll suck it up and
lives like this is not your fault and it's not
just going to go away. And Tommy's like, no one's
going to believe in ex con about something like this,
and it is really sad and unfair, Like ricidivism is

(31:16):
like sort of based in a lot of the fact
that these people are so ex convicts are so easy
to take advantage of because they don't think anyone will
believe them, and many times nobody will believe them about anything.
So they say, go to the hospital when you get
off work. We need you to get tested for evidence.
But also Sti's it's like this man is not showered.
I guess they just want to make sure that he
might have like some of her DNA on him still,

(31:38):
but like, yeah, you have a pregnant wife, like your
frick pregnant fiance, Like you should get tested for STIs
just in case, And they're kind of getting to him
with that. He's like, oh, I haven't thought about that,
and so like the guys he's working with are like
get a little help over here. And he's like, all right,
just come by tomorrow, bring the clothes you're wearing, and
we'll take your statement. So now we're at the precinct

(31:58):
and Rollins, I feel like one of the reasons that
we've all been up and down with Rawlins is because
she is the first person to be like, I don't know,
Like she's very skeptical. She's like, there's no witnesses, the
victim not even want to might not even want to
pursue charges. And then they're like, no, Tommy came in
and gave a statement. He's reluctant but consistent, and Caresee's like,
I want to know if he's credible. Rollins is like,
I'm really not buying it, and she goes it looks

(32:20):
bad that he didn't disclose until after the parole violation. Drink.
That's the name of the episode. If you're listening to
this on a Tuesday morning, please drink in your car.
Liv tells Caresey, you know you can't be part of
this investigation, and then let's all watch us. He is
fully part of the investigation for the rest of the episode,
but she says, you can walk your sister, Bella and

(32:41):
Tommy through like what's going on and what's going to
happen in the future. And so he's like, all right,
I guess I'll go do that now. She's like, yeah,
on your way. So now live in rollins gather around
Tomorrow's computer for the breakdown of Donna Marshall aka Susan Sharon.
She's a master in social work. She was at the
top of her class.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
She's been in that office showl because you know, my
theory is good people do social work sociology, bad people
do criminal justice. So the fact that she did social
work is a fork in my theory.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Well, I don't know, let's talk about it when we
get later into the episode, like what the where the Donna?
Where Donna went off the tracks? You know what I mean?
Like maybe it's possible. Like when she graduated college, she
really was like I'm gonna help these people, I'm gonna
do good and then like you know, she got broken
at some point. So anyway, she has the lowest recidivism
rate in the department. She's been there for ten years.

(33:32):
She's very like highly respected. So and just the way
she speaks like it could be my ASMR.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
I can go to bed, said Susan Sharon playing Donna,
Like the way she says detective in this, the way
she says recidivism like her nails in that, like she
is she is mother, like she is the moment, like.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Like she is a criminal.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
She's bad, but like I love like aesthetically, the way
she sounds like I am in love with her.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
It's oh my gosh, I hope she's I hope somebody
she knows listens to this podcast and sends her and
is like, do you want like a full twenty minute
like compliment because here it is on this podcast detective
like a detective, Yeah, detective Yeah. And she's like she's
like I had a moment of weakness. I'm human, Like yeah,

(34:23):
she's so funny. Rollins is like, uh, dude, the Department
of Corrections is going to stonewall the shit out of us,
Like you think cops put up a front, like the
doc is even worse or whatever, which we've seen other
episodes where there's office where there's correctional officers involved and
they all do cover for each other, like the Ray
Romano's brother Brad Garrett episode. Yeah. So liv tells the

(34:44):
skeptical Rollins and Tomorrow that if genders were reversed, they
would be handling this totally differently. We all saw his affect,
we see how he's acting. Why don't we handle this
like it's a woman making a complaint against a male
po And so in the next scene, they're bringing in
Donna Marshall's who is a guy named Ralph Kessel and
he's like, Lol, somebody's making a claim. These x cons

(35:06):
are all scumbags. I'm sure it's bullshit, but just in case,
I'll play along. Who is it? And then they say
Donna and he goes, uh, you know she's a woman, right,
and it's like, yeah, no one thinks somebody named Donna
is a man. But also like it's just wild, like
the that women cannot commit any kind of sex crime
to all of these people in this episode, and Benson's like, ah, yes,

(35:27):
we are aware, and so he immediately assumes it's a
lesbian victim and then they're like, no, it's a male victim,
and he immediately laughs. And Benson explains that a gun
was pulled and that Tommy felt he had to comply,
and then he goes, comply sounds like my wife, and
Amaro goes, ha, mine too, and it's like Tomorrow, you
and Maria have like never kissed before. I can't believe

(35:48):
it in a million years. So like, I don't know
what you're doing. And I think that's like one of
my issues with Tomorrow is I can never really tell
if he's being a misogynistic asshole or he's like playing
the game to get on the good side of these
people in this episode. Whatever he's doing here doesn't really
pay off. So I'm just left thinking that he thinks
it's cool to act like, you know, sex with your
wife is complying like so.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
But he isn't a loveless marriage, I think. But because
we don't know why they got married, Like did they
get married because someone is going to Iraq? Or did
he get her like pregnant? Like what did they love
each other? Like I don't know, I don't know the
I don't know their origins.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
Yeah, he's never been like at the beginning, it was great,
we were crazy about each other, and then things change.
I mean, like it feels like they grew apart when
she was a like overseas like deployed. But you know what,
I just feel like it is weird to be like
comply sounds like my wife. It's like, yeah, your wife
has the right to tell you notice sex any fucking
time she wants, and so that's your life. And Ralph's like,

(36:51):
give me the name of this lying sob and Live
does not give it because this man is trash. And
so now we are back at Tommy and Bella's place
and uh oh, Italian girl knows everything, and she is mad, mad, mad.
She is furious at Sonny for defending him. She's like, hey,
shade it on me, and like you now you're defending him,
And Corisie and Tommy are trying to explain to her

(37:15):
that this was non consensual and it was assault, but
she's like, you can't even fuck in my parents' house
with them sleeping two doors down, but you can get
it up with a gun to your head. That's her
theory again, how'd you get a boner? And then suddenly,
in the middle of all this Italian screaming back and forth,
there's a knock at the door and it's done done
Donna Marshall. She's doing a random home inspection and Tommy's like,

(37:39):
what's this all about? And she's like, why don't you
shut the fuck up? And then she goes into the
bedroom and comes back and approximately half a second with
big bags of oxy contin, and Tommy's like I never
saw any of that, and then they cuffed Tommy and
Creasy's like, don't say anything till you get a lawyer.
He has not revealed himself at all to be a cop.
And then Donna's like, yeah, Tommy, better call Saul.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Like nice, and then that show was even on already,
damn time.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
Oh yeah, five fifteen. Well it may not have been
Better Call Saul may not have been on, but in
the show Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul is like his
calling card, so it could have just been a Breaking
Bad reference. So they leave. Bella's distraw like why didn't
you tell them you're a cop? And Crazy's like that
would not have helped in this situation. I don't know

(38:24):
if I agree with that, but like, if he had
first identified himself as a cop, I think she may
have thought twice about planting the drugs. She'd been like, Hi,
I'm Detective Sonny Creasy from SPU. I don't know if
she would have been so ballsy to plant drugs, you
know what I mean. So anyway, top of act two,
we're in like some kind of jail like holding or
temporar like jail. But Tommy's in his orange jumpsuit swearing

(38:47):
to Careasy that those were not his drugs, and Tommy's like,
she planted them. She must have found out I was
accusing her. Did you guys tell her? And Caresee's like,
of course we didn't, and Tomorrow's like, oh, we definitely did.
We just talked to her boss, who she's a pair
currently heavy best friends with, and Tommy's like, those two
are thickest thieves, which just reminds me of Jersey Housewives.
And Lisa did get me a onesie for Oscar when

(39:10):
he was born. That says, let me tell you something
about my family. We're thickest thieves, which I still have
and I'm reading to give to the right baby that
I know. And Caresy is like, we have to show
that she had a reason to plant those drugs, and
Tommy's like, of course, he thinks no one will believe him,
and Carisey goes, I do, And this makes Tommy feel
better that his like brother soon to be brother in law,

(39:30):
who's never really liked him, is like, I'm on your side.
I believe you now tomorrow and criese, you're updating Live.
They're going to test the baggies of of oxy for DNA.
Can we also get like, where's the rush on that
DNA from his clothes? Find out from the lab and
Live tells Careesy that Tommy's in for a fight with
this rape charge and he's like, yeah, my sister's pissed
at him and lives like, well he did the right thing,

(39:51):
so like coming forward, So now out in like what
do you call the area where all the cops sit,
like the pen, the bullpen? I think it is called
like a bullpen, bullpen. I was like the quad. Rollins
is still sally skeptical and is like, well, Tommy is
a dealer, and it's like that was weed and he
doesn't even do that anymore. And then like he's getting

(40:13):
his life together and it's like, but he did get
into a bar fight. It's like Rollin's you're so far
from perfect. You're just like refusing to admit that this
guy like could be just a good guy who's being
like set up. And he says, no, things were going
good for Tommy and she goes, well, some people can't
handle that, and they self sabotage, and I think that
she's projecting a little because I think she does that
like if she like when she first met Carisi, like

(40:33):
an actual nice guy who liked her, and she was
just like, Bye, I'm gonna go fuck bartenders in West Virginia,
see you later. You know, I think that Rowlins doyes
a little bit of self sabotage, and Carisy's like, bitch.
I was there when she found the drugs and she
was like a damn bloodhound. It was like less than
a minute, like there's no way. And Rolin goes, well,
someone is lying and walks off, and Carisy goes, well,

(40:54):
she's big on tough love, huh, And it's like you're
gonna find out soon enough. Sir and Amaro explained that
Rollin's sister has played her ass a bunch and that like,
you know, that's where she comes from, being skeptical about
like family stuff, and he's like, well, her family isn't
my family, and Amarro's like, but Tommy isn't even your family,
Bella is you got to look out for her. And

(41:14):
then just then they get a call the touch DNA
on the clothes is back in and guess what Donna
Saliva is present plus fluids. She just like drooled all
over this mandaring sex. Okay, so even if she had sex,
even if they had consensual sex, that's against the law
because she's like in a position of power against him.
So she wrote the law and the good and that's
good news. And he's like, yeah, try telling that to

(41:35):
Bella Caraci, She's not gonna hear it. So Carisi is
chasing Bella down the street now, and she's like not
having any of the shit. She's stressed. She's thinking about
moving in with her parents, and Carisi goes, I cannot
stress what an insane idea that is? And I really
like that. He's like, you cannot move in with mom
and dad, And she's like, I've dealt with this shit
for ten years. Like I guess they've been together ten

(41:57):
years with him fucking up and then the jail she waited.
It's like, I think she's just been waiting a decade
for this man to get his shit together and grow up.
But now he's cheated. And then she brings up the
other sisters and like that they don't like Tommy and
CARIESI goes, uh, to be fair, our sisters are fucking nuts.
He goes, Teresa won't talk to a guy who makes
less than six figures, and Gina's been engaged ten times,

(42:18):
Like it's really funny, and I really want to know
who would be cast as Teresa and Gina, who well.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Not cast But I obviously was like, this is so
Jersey Housewives, Like she's Danielle Stob Okay, so what are
their names?

Speaker 1 (42:32):
Teresa? And she won't talk to anybody who's under like
who's poor? Like she needs a rich guy? Okay, And
I feel like it's got out. We got to stay blonde,
blue eyed with this, like even though there must be
Northern Italian because they're very light complected for these heavily
Italian people. I didn't know what would be casting. I
wish you'd give me. I don't know. I know next time,

(42:56):
I'll like send you an email and be like, oh,
do you think Megan Fayie can do a Staten Island accent? Yes?

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yes, bring back Megan Faith Yes with a Staaten Island accent.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
And she's she's Gina because I could see her getting
engaged ten times. I really could. She's Gina Teresa.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
I mean the only person I'm thinking of is Margot Robbie,
But like, I don't know if Margot Robbie is gonna
be playing a Carreasi at the moment.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Yeah, do you think Amanda Seifered can do a Staten
Island accent?

Speaker 2 (43:27):
So we're so these so we're only casting within the
SVU universe.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
Oh no, I just literally googled and she popped up.
I'm not trying to on purpose, but it would be
funny if all these people just came back because Beverly
D'Angel has been a character, Caresi's been a character, They've
all been characters before, and then the whole Careasi family
is just recast people. That would be funny. Yeah, I
would totally. Yeah, let's do let's do that. Let's totally

(43:53):
do that. I feel like there was also another episode
where wasn't it.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Oh Julia Garner, that's a funny one. That's fun Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
She can do it. She can do any accent as
we know. Why are you so poor? Oh that's perfect.
She can just do her Annadelviy character with a Saten
Island accent. She's like, oh you seem very poor. We
cannot date, Okay, so you can anyway, can do it. Honestly,
I'll dye my hair blonde and play a Carisi. I
would love it. She okay. So he's basically like, do

(44:22):
not listen to our crazy bitch sisters please, and she's like, oh,
you suddenly love Tommy and he's like, look, the guy's
fucked up a lot, but this isn't one of those times.
And she admits to Sonny that she's thinking of terminating
the pregnancy, like this is all too much for her.
She's only ten weeks so long, and Carisie's little Catholic
heart is breaking at that idea. But Bella is like,
I'm too stressed. I can't raise a kid on my own.

(44:43):
She goes back into her apartment and Carisy looks like
he's gonna cry, like he was really looking forward to
meeting this niece or nephew. And so now top of
AC three, we've got Livin Rollins an interrogation with Donna
Marshall and her lawyer, whose name is Mickey DiAngelo no
relation because he's a fictional character, but he's been this
a lawyer in six episodes as this character. The actor's

(45:05):
name is Joseph Lyle Taylor and he's been Mickey D'Angelo
in six episodes, a bunch of like season sixteen, seventeen eighteen,
I feel like nineteen maybe, And they're like, okay, so
you admit you had sex with a Paroli and Mickey
d is like initiated by Tommy and Susan Sharon. She's
truly like such a Sex and the City character here.
She's like, I'm human. I had a moment of weakness.

(45:26):
Like she's kind of like grinning about like them having
like hot office sex or whatever. And she describes the
whole scene where like Tommy gave her a massage and
he started kissing me and she said it was a
bad idea, but he was aggressive. And then they're like
did you say no? And she goes, when I say no,
people listen, And he didn't rape me, and I certainly
didn't rape him. She admits to performing oral sex on

(45:48):
him and them having intercourse and she's like, I've been
divorced for five years and it just felt good to
be wanted. And they're like, okay, so, like, did you
know he put in three requests to change po And
she's like, well that's not surprising. I'm the toughest one,
and he's like, but if you're so tough, why would
he try to hit on you? That feels like a
far shot to hit and she goes, paroles are manipulative.

(46:11):
They think they have the upper hand. And then Rollins
is like, isn't it your job to not let them
have the upper hand. It's like okay, Rollins. And then
they're like do you have a gun? Like where was
your gun during this? And she's like, yeah, I carry
and then she starts laughing like you think I held
him at gunpoint? L ol. She goes, he was ready,
willing and able, and again the boner is proof. Everybody
cannot stop talking about this man's boner. They get up

(46:35):
to leave and Donna is like, this guy is a criminal,
a liar, and a recidivist. He came on to me,
and now he's backtracking because his pregnant girlfriend found out
he cheated on her. And then as she walks out,
she gives Olivia this wild, like atta boy slap on
the arm. It's really funny actually, and I wonder if
she improvised it, because Olivia is like, the fuck, Like,
I'm a sergeant and you just like smacked me on here,

(46:56):
like in your bowling league with you and the lawyer
is it's like, if you believe a scumbag over a
fellow officer, you should be ashamed, and like, I don't
know if it's real or not, and I don't want
to I don't want to mean anyone who's in corrections
because that sounds like a very hard job. In this show,
it doesn't feel like cops treat pos and like corrections
officer people as like the same as them. It feels

(47:19):
like they feel like they're lower on the totem pole
in from what I garnered from ASVU. I don't know
if that's in real life. And so they they leave
and Amorro's got like he's like, I've got the results
of the drug test. Baggies. There's no DNA from Tommy
on the packaging, so there's no proof he touched any
of it. And they found touch DNA belonging to a
guy named Jordan Delfi who's a parole drug dealer. And

(47:39):
guess who his PO is. Ding Dong is Donna Marshall.
So now we're at Jordan's apartment and he's got his
girlfriend and his baby there. Amaro and Rollins start tossing
the place immediately, Rollin's just like, who's just like Donna?
Rollins finds that oxy with the quickness, and they go,
Donna's been your PO for three years and you passed

(48:00):
all your drug tests. And he's like, Donna made me
give her that oxy. And they're like, in exchange for
what clean drug tests? And he goes, yeah, she knows
how to add just the right amount of vinegar to
urine so that I can pass these tests. Is that real?
I wonder if that's real. I should have googled it,
but I didn't. And he says he provides other services
to Donna as well to assure the clean drug tests.

(48:20):
And they're like, what do you mean And he's like,
she's a divorce lonely lady. Use your imagination. When she
says it's time for a piss test, the pants come down,
and he says he once tried to say no, but
she pulled the gun out. So here we go matching stories.
So now live in crist you're talking to Barba, and
Barba's like, okay, so both victims will testify an open
court and they're like, yep, they will. Barba says, I've

(48:42):
never taken a case like this to court, and I
don't know a da who has. And I'm like, we
in season three they take female rapists to court on
this show, so I know that they have before, like
the Casey Novack episode where she's not Casey Novack. Forget
what that one's called, but you know what I mean,
where the women like rape a stripper and I just.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Yeah, but I don't think they're found guilty for that crime.
They're found guilty for murdering their murdering the girl. Yeah yeah,
but he's yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
So he's saying, like, no one's ever taken a female
rapist to court in New York, Like this isn't gonna
This is gonna be really tough, and he's like, the
hard part is convincing a jury that a woman can
rape a man at all. So again, this feels like
something they would have done in like the early twenty's,
but twenty fifteen, I feel like we were past this anyway.
At Liv's apartment, she's giving Bella all these hand me
downs from Noah and a cup of herbal tea, and

(49:30):
she's like trying to assure Bella. She's like, I've been
doing this for a really long time. I know that
these assaults can be really hard on victims but also
on their families. Everything Tommy has told us has checked out.
He is not making this up. He did not want
this to happen. And again she's like, but the boner,
how could the boner happen with a gun to his head?
And Benson goes it's a mechanical response, like a sneeze,

(49:52):
or like crying when you cut onions. Like when you
cut onions, tears come out of your eyes, but you're
not sad, which is a good metaphor for this. I
feel like and she's trust me, bitch, I've been doing
this for like a million years. I've seen it. All
this happens, and then little Noah squeaks awake, and I
do like this Noah. He's very cute. He's got big
cheeks and like long hair. He's cute. And he meets
Bella and she's like immediately all smiles. So it's like,

(50:15):
I guess she's keeping the baby. But in court, Coreesi
is on the stand and Barbara is wrapping up with him,
and now Donna' Laura lawyer Mickey Dee stands up and
he's like didn't Tommy tell you about his alleged assault
after you picked him up from jail? And he knows
that you're an SVU detective, so maybe he was just
trying to get your sympathy after he cheated on your sister.

(50:36):
And he points out how Tommy didn't even think he
was raped and only use that term after talking to
Live and the SVU people, and they pan to Donna,
and she looks smug as hell, and her hair looks
very good for like a woman who's a parole officer.
I feel like, I mean, I show me a picture
of a parole officer who has shiny, silky hair like this.
It looks really beautiful. And now Tommy is on the

(50:57):
stand describing how Donna made him lian his and when
he hesitated, she pulled the gun, so he did whatever
she said. She handcuffed his wrist to her desk. Then
she sked his d as we used to say at
summer camp. Now she gave him oral you know sex,
and then well but it wouldn't be called oral sex, right,
She forcibly, you know, copulated him, and then she got

(51:19):
on top of him for forcible penetration, and he was angry,
and terrified. He was worried about Bella and that she
was going to shoot him or send him back to jail.
He's like, you got to understand, these pos have all
the power over us. Like and so now her asshole
lawyer is on the stand and is like, wow, the
boner even with a gun to your head and the cuffs,
and it's like, you guys should have had a doctor
come in first and be like, yes, you can get

(51:40):
a boner under duress, Like that would have been a
good like baseline to start with, just so they can
stop bringing this up to like him a million times.
So then this lawyer is like, so, what's more likely
that this decorated officer raped you and went to your
house and planted drugs or that you got arrested and
this decorated officer went to check on you and found
the drugs and then you cried rapes. And it's like,

(52:01):
but that's not the order that things happened. The rape
cry was before the drugs, and there's many cops that
can attest to that. So I hate this man. Barbara
keeps objecting and having things stricken and like this he's
one of these lawyers that doesn't care when it's like
objection moved to strike, okay, stricken from the record, he
doesn't care. He just moves on. I think he knows
the jury is still hearing his point. And by the way,

(52:22):
the judge in this episode is Judge Karen Blake. She's
been in nineteen episodes of SVU. The actress's name is
Amy Brabson and she is married to Andre Brower, whoa
power couple. Yeah, damn, they're married. They got three kids,
she is, and he's an SVU alum and you know,
a Brooklyn nine favorite, and yeah, she's been in tons

(52:45):
of episodes of s for You. Anyway, she grants a recess.
Tommy goes and apologizes to Barbara and he's like, sorry,
he was twisting all my words and he's like, Barbara goes,
you did fine, but in a way that it's like
you did not do fine. And he's like he's like,
the attorney wants to know how the drugs got in there. Well,
Jordan Dolphy's about to tell them, and so Barbara I

(53:06):
just called him Barbara. So Barbarbara goes outside looking for
Jordan and they can't find him, and there's this like
courthouse officer who's like, oh, that's like squirrely little guy.
He was Jones and for a smoke, so I told
him to go outside. They all run outside. Jordan is gone.
They try to scold this officer like how could you
let him walk out of here? And he's like, uh,
not my job, and they're like he's a material witness

(53:29):
and he goes, now he's immaterial, So I guess if
he walks back in here, I'll find him. But until then,
fuck off, Like this officer gives like less the zero
fucks about helping these use few detectives. And Barbara at
the top of act four is begging the judge for
a continuance. They're like, we've done an exhaustive search all
night for Jordan and we can't find him. And she's like, well,

(53:51):
but that other guy, Mickey Die goes she's got my
client's got a write to a speedy trial. And the
judge is like, you're right, and she denies the continue
and then she goes, so are you gonna call any
more witnesses? And she's and Barbara goes, Dolphie was our
last witness, So it looks like the prosecution rests. So
then the Nikky DiAngelo goes, well, then we'll call our

(54:12):
first witness, Jordan Dolphie, and Barba goes, excuse me in
a way that I would that is so vitriolic that
I would like if I was on the receiving end
of this excuse me from Barbara, I would truly like
piss my pants and like curl into a ball. Like
he is livid, and this like jackass lawyer is like, yeah,

(54:34):
Jordan Dolphie came to us in the dead of the
night and says his confession was coerced by the police,
and Barbara is fiuaeus. So now Jordan is on the
stand saying, oh, yeah, the cops said that if I
made a deal to testify against Donna, they would, you know,
like take away a drug charge for me or whatever.
And so like basically, this whole case against her is

(54:55):
trumped up, and she's been so good to me and
I can't have her go to down for something I did.
I'm the one that sold Tommy all that oxy. She
had nothing to do with it. And then it's Barba's
turn to go up there, and he looks like he's
about to dig into a juicy steak like a Wagoo
beef steak. Like he's like, oh, hi, JORDI, Wow, you

(55:16):
really just quoted Sandoval from vander Pump. I did.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Yeah, that's what he talked about. Katie So oh a
Wagoo beef steak. I mean it is cool that she's
the one that's suspicious of him and kind of breaking this.
But yeah, he's like, yeah, she's so vengeful, she's taught.
She's sinking into this like a like a Wagoo beef steak.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
She's sala. That must be in the back of my mind.
I did just watch that episode a few days ago.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Which I don't even know if I've ever had. I
gotta start eating this wagoo steak.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
Yes, I can tell you a good place to go too,
because I mean, I don't eat it, but I went
to a place with Jared once where they had it.
Barbara goes to this man, what's up, Jeordie Georde. He goes,
you haven't failed a drug test in three years? And
he goes, right, because I'm clean, and it's like sure,
Jan and he goes, but the detectives found oxy at
your house and he goes, it's just for sale. I

(56:11):
don't use and he goes, but you do use heroin
and he goes no, And then Barba's like, can you
roll those little sleeves up please for me? And you know,
he's like, you can't ask me to do that, and
the judge is like, actually, he can get those sleeves up,
and he rolls them up, and those babies are riddled
with track marks. And he's like, so are those fresh
needle marks? And he admits that they are. And he's like, so,

(56:33):
how do you pass three years of urine tests when
you're clearly using hard drugs? And the asshole lawyer is like,
can we get a recess? And Barbara goes, now, he's
my witness, and this is like peak Barbara. Like Barba's like,
you do not fuck with me the way you just
tried to, sir, and I am coming for you. Didn't
you tell SVU that Donna doctored your urine tests with

(56:54):
vinegar and that you had sex with Donna in exchange
for those clean tests? And then Jordan breaks down and
starts yelling in to the galley, being like you said
you were going to fix this, and he's not even
talking to Donna. He's talking to her boss, Ralph Kessel,
the guy we met at the beginning, and so Barbara goes,
so did he convince you to testify for the defense?

(57:14):
And the guy, poor Jordan, I mean, he goes, these
people own your ass. You want to stay out of prison,
you do anything they say, So it's not like he
had much of a choice in like coming up with
this story, I feel like. And the lawyer again goes,
I need a recess your honor, and Barba goes, I'm
sure you do, and then he walks by. The lawyer
leans in and goes, never trust a junkie, and the
lawyer goes. The lawyer makes a look like he's right,

(57:36):
and he looks very defeated, and it's hilarious. I like
watching this guy get his just desserts. In the next scene,
Barbara and Liver are in a room meeting with Donna
and her lawyer and she's willing to plead guilty to
evidence tampering and lose her job and they're like, she
raped a man at gunpoint, and he's like, there's no
proof of that. No jury is going to convict a
female rapist like they basically never have, and she doesn't

(57:57):
want to be humiliated by talking about her sex life
life up there. It lives like or going to jail
as a parole officer, which is very likely right now.
And so then the guy goes, okay, evidence tampering, one
year probation, and they're like, what about the rape And
they're like, okay, we'll add sexual misconduct, and Barbara wants
five years probation and she goes on the registry and
she goes, that doesn't work for me, and Live goes,

(58:20):
you better rethink that, bitch, because if you go to
jail for five years as a PO, it's going to
be a really brutal for you. And Donna looks scared shitless,
and so she kind of like wordlessly agrees, like there's
no way I can go to jail, so let's not
gamble with the jury. So then Donna gets one last
monologue to Olivia. She goes, you don't get what it's like.
You cops lock these animals up and you never have

(58:41):
to deal with them again. I'm supposed to rehabilitate them.
I give up my life and my marriage for this job.
And then tom By Goldberg, Yes, it's very what be
Goldberg's final thing? She goes, and then Tommy Sullivan walks
in all pumped about his pregnant girlfriend and his wonderful
new life, like obviously, that's like what broke her about
the whole situation was that he was like going to
get out of the system and be happy. And meanwhile,

(59:03):
it's like, this is a guy who sold weed while
delivering pizza. He's not a murderer. She's like you, these animals,
they never change. It's like he was a weed delivery guy.
Like this is crazy what you're how you're trying to
I'm sure you have other clients that are horrible.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
No, but parole officers are like the people that love
law enforcement. It's like lawn or rules are rules, like
they don't they don't care, right, they don't see the difference.
Like to them, the law is the law, and that's
that these are not These are people that would be,
you know, working at Auschwitz because the rules are the rules,
Like they don't see, they don't That's what's weird. That's

(59:40):
why I don't believe that someone that majored in sociology
and social work would be a parole officer.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
That's why it's.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Criminal justice people, because if you learn about like wait,
so if you're like poor and you don't have a
parent in the home, and then your options are limited
and your school sucks, and then maybe you will be
more open to crime. Yeah, oh fuck. But criminal justice

(01:00:07):
people are like, well, you back a law, law, and
that's what it is. And we got to teach these
fuckers a lesson and so it doesn't matter where you're from,
morals or morals. And that's what Jesus Christ said, Yeah,
and so that's why I'm so into my series.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Christ said. When Jesus Christ wrote the penal codes for
New York's Stay, he clearly said, well, here's the thing.
She goes on in this like monologue to live and
she goes I tried to help him. I tried to
help all of them, and they take your hand and
they drag you down to their level. They don't want
to change, they will never change, And it's like, are

(01:00:45):
they is the show trying to make us think that
like criminals like ruined this woman's life and made her delusional,
Like because what is she talking about? She committed a
crime like she knows she did, like we saw it
almost happen on the show. So it's weird that she's
like somehow Tommy Sullivan dragged you down to his level. Like,
I don't understand what the show is trying to say

(01:01:06):
with this final monologue about this woman. Yes, it's a
hard job. It's like with Whoopie Goldberg's monologue, It's like,
this is a fucking hard job. Kids fall through the
cracks and tragedies like this happened because this system is
fucked up. What is she saying though the system is
fucked up. I get all these animals, So if I
want to rape a guy who delivered weed and pizza, sometime,
I'm allowed to do that. Like, I don't really get

(01:01:27):
what she's saying, or like what the show is trying
to say here about her worldview because she's just blaming
it on criminals. But I guess it's about the dehumanization
of people that have been in jail or incarcerated at all,
like X convex, Like she's just like, these are animals
and they're all the same, and it's one size fits all.
They're all degenerates, they'll all try to screw you over,

(01:01:47):
so what does it matter what we do to them? Basically,
and Barba's like, get this hot mess out of here,
and it's like, yeah, she's sick. So they leave and
Careesy is giving Bella the update back at the apartment.
No jail for Donna, but she is losing her job.
She's going on the sex registry and they're gonna look
at her boss Kressel as well see if he's been
doing more cover ups. And they're dropping the drug charge

(01:02:10):
against Tommy, so he'll get out soon. So we're basically
back where we started at the beginning. Tommy and Bella
in the apartment. What's happening with this baby? So Caresi
tells her sister it took a real man for him
to get up in court and tell the truth. And
he did what he did for you and the baby.
And suddenly there's a knock at the door and it's
Tommy and it's like, doesn't he live there? I don't

(01:02:31):
know why he's knocking, but they hug like they there's
a moment where you can't tell her, babe, he changed
the locks. Yeah, oh that's true. Maybe she did. There's
a moment where you're like, yeah, maybe she changed the locks.
Maybe she's changed her mind about this guy altogether, Like
she finally broke after ten years of this shit, and
then she brings him in for a hug and it
feels like, you know, they're gonna be okay, and he goes,

(01:02:51):
it's all gonna be okay. We're gonna be okay. And
so at first I wrote, you kind of can't tell
if she kept the baby or not because she had
kind of a guilty look when like he opened the door,
like we were like, oh did she get did she
do an abortion? And I was like, ooh, it's a
Catholic KARESI mystery, But she did keep it because I
remembered that. In Patrimonial Burden, Coreesi mentions having a new niece,

(01:03:13):
and then in the episode What Can Happen in the Dark,
he mentions that Bella and Tommy got married, so you know,
baby or no baby, that's dick Wolf. But it looks
like Bella and Tommy finally got hitched and have their
little family. And so hopefully he's turning over a new leaf.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
And that's sad it is And weed is now legal
in New York City, so hopefully he invested well and
is now just working at a weed shop.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
Yeah. I hope his record gets expunged because that's like
three years out of his life, and he's got a
record when he tries to get jobs and shit for weed.
Alana was posting on four twenty about how we got
to like support these groups, about getting governors to give
clemency to all these weed defenses, and she's right. It's
like so fucked up people are running in jail for
weed when like I can walk out of my door

(01:03:56):
and like get smacked with a weed shop in three seconds,
you know. Fucked up? Yeah, Like, okay, the laws changed,
let everybody out like it's wild, but that I am.
They want the free labor. Yeah, oh yeah, we charges
going away is gonna like empty out a lot of
the jails and a lot of not empty them out completely,

(01:04:17):
of course, but like thin them out. But I'm looking
forward to hearing about the crimes that you've got lined
up for us. So everybody just listen to these messages
from our sponsors and we'll be right back. All right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
So today's crimes are super quick, short, but we got
a couple and they're right around the time of this episode,
so it's the ease. The first case is the Samantha
Werner case, and it's some Kentucky action.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
If I've ever seen any Kentucky crimes.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
So it's a correctional officer named Samantha Werner, and she
was this is what I mean. It's like they won't
say she was engaging in a sexual relationship with a
man who was being supervised by the Department of Corrections.
And that's how the Kentucky News, a CBS affiliate, wrote
it out. So I don't know they met while he

(01:05:28):
was incarcerated, and she was a corrections officer at the
Kentucky State Reformatory KSR, which sounds like a radio station.
And what's so funny, so I don't know how to say,
is Andrew Dysmuke's d mux Us. Yeah, he was one
of the comics that was with us at Moon Tower,
and he did a joke that he loves watching biopics

(01:05:49):
and his favorite part is at the end of the
movie where they show the photo of the real person
and he's like, they're not as hot, and that I
and that he doesn't care about the movie anymore because
it's like I only cared because these people were hot,
and that's how I feel about this. This woman should
be so lucky that Susan Sharon was playing her, and

(01:06:11):
that's how I feel. But they do have a similar
blonde vibes. But it is I just kept thinking about
his joke because it was so recent from when I
heard it to when I did this research, and I
did keep laughing at every article I found. But so
this guy, her victim, was paroled on January second, twenty fourteen,

(01:06:33):
and they engaged in so they were not doing anything
while he was incarcerated. They started engaging in a relationship
January fifth to the eleventh, while he was serving time
in a halfway home. And then Samantha was married at
the time of the crime. And I'll explain why it
was a crime because you're like, wait, but he's out,

(01:06:55):
what's going on? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
Yeah, And she's not a PO she's a correction she's
a CEO. When your right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Fifteenth, the man notified iab okay tuk what's up her?
So Internal Affairs department, he let them know because Werner
threatened him, so he wanted to end their fuck relationship,
but she wouldn't let him, and she said that if
he ended it, she would send him back to prison

(01:07:20):
if he didn't continue the relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
So that's what happened.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
So there was evidence, there was texts from her and
nude photos, and then Werner eventually gave a taped confession
that she did engage in intercourse and oral with the
man while he was a parole under the Department of Corrections.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Oh okay, so she's still in the same department and
that's the crime for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Yeah yeah, and the threat of like yes, yeah. So
she was charged with third degree rape, third degree sodomy,
and first degree official misconduct and she lost her job.
The Department of Corrections spokesperson in Kentucky, Lisa Lamb, said
the doc does not tolerate this type of activity from

(01:08:04):
her staff in any form, and it is a Class
D felony, and she said this to Waive three News.
I could not find any court activity or convictions, but
I did find her on the sex Registry list, so
that does mean she was convicted of something, but I
could not. Like all the articles I found were like

(01:08:25):
when this happened, So February of twenty fourteen, it was
like charged, charged, charged, and that's why our news sucks.
It was like ooh, salacious, silatious, and then there was
no updates on convictions. But since she's on the registry,
we can assume she was convicted of something. She has
tons of aliases. But I found her and she's in Milton, Kentucky.

(01:08:48):
She's forty eight years old, and yeah, Samantha and Clay
Combe as of now, and she's living it out in Kentucky.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
So she either got convicted or she made a deal
like the way Susan shaedafted.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
You're right, you're right. So she might have not and
just gotten on the registry. But she's living living large
in Kentucky and you know, got fired and yeah, they
were fucking from like the fifth to the eleventh. He
was like, I've had enough and she was like, nah,
a bitch, you're going back to prison. And he said, no,

(01:09:23):
you're gonna You're about to lose your job.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
You were about to lose your job and she did
and so sorry Sammy.

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
And then this next case was on the wiki. We
will cover it. I it happened, you know, in twenty thirteen,
so it could have influenced it because it was a
man with gunpoint. Can someone get hard or not? But
this doesn't relate in terms of like corrections or anything
like that. So this is what happened, And this happened

(01:09:52):
in Chicago in my county, Cook County.

Speaker 1 (01:09:54):
What's up? So we have to cover it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
Obviously we have to cover So this case is the
Sierra Ross case. So Siarah Ross at the time was
a twenty five year old mother and she was driving
around and she picked up a stranger who was a
thirty three year old man, and she basically was like,
you know, middle of the night, four or five in
the morning, and she was like, offered a man a ride,

(01:10:19):
and he got into her car and then at gunpoint,
she forced him to have sex with another woman in.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
The back of the vehicle. Oh not even her, a
separate nomen Yes, her friend.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
And again the articles all say forced him to have
sex with another woman. Wow, it was not ray, it
was not it was forced to have sex. Like all
the language is different, so crazy. Yeah, So the Assistant
States Attorney, Amanda Pillsbury, which obviously reminds me of the

(01:10:53):
dough Boy, what's up? And she told a Chicago judge
that the incident began around, like I said, five in
the morning on July twenty sixth. So I think the
taste of Chicago is raging. The city is alive, it's hot,
everyone's out and about so she offered the victim a ride,

(01:11:14):
and after he got in the car, she pulled a
gun on him and demanded he get into the backseat
of the car and have sex with her friend. And
it's like okay, like was her, what's going on? Like
I want more details? Like it really bothers me that
I couldn't get more information on anything. He begged for
them to stop, but she forced him to put his
hands on her breasts and butt, and then the man

(01:11:37):
eventually escaped when he saw a CAB's headlights nearby, and
he escaped wearing only a T shirt.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
So Winnie the Poose style just ran.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
He flagged a cab and the cab driver was super
helpful and allowed the victim to use his cell phone
to take a picture of the license plate and then
email himself the picture of the attacker's license plate.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
Also, according to the Chicago Sun Times, he picked Ross
out of a lineup, so he had two bits of evidence.
So it was the license plate Ross out of a lineup,
and then there was also DNA evidence and then Ross,
a mother of two, worked at a local Denny's restaurant
and had a previous conviction for a prostitution. She was

(01:12:20):
booked by Cook County Sheriff's Department on September fifth and
charged with aggravated criminal sexual assault and armed robbery for
stealing two hundred dollars and his credit cards and an iPhone.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
The other woman was not charged what I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:38):
And then Sierra was held because she was not able
to pay her seventy five thousand dollars bail or bond
or whatever. And then same thing. I was not able
to find anything about a conviction or anything. But this
person was not on any registry, so I don't know
if she settled what happened.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
I don't know where she is. I cannot find any updates.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
If anyone is better and can find any information, let
me know. But I was looking for court information counties,
like I could not find anything additional about the case
or what ended up happening.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
But that happened. Wow, wow wow wow. That just seems
like a wild like I don't know, let's just pick
up a guy and get him to do I mean,
it's like, oh so crazy. Well thanks for looking into
those two.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
Well, part of me is like maybe they were on drugs,
but like they would have been charged probably for drug
stuff for drug tested right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
I do think the friend threw Sierra under the bus
and was like she forced me to Like I didn't
I the gun was on me. Also like that's why
she didn't get charged. I don't know. Wow, everybody is
very wild in this world. But our next guest is
a good one. You guys are going to love it.
Don't go anywhere. Our guest today is an actor who

(01:14:05):
has done a ton of incredible projects. He's played Cal
Chapman on Orange is the New Black because you know
we are going to collect them all, and he has
a main role on the show on Apple called Severance
that people are obsessed with. He's also in the new
Rachel Vice show called Dead Ringers. But you know him
today as Bella Caresi's sad sack boyfriend Tommy Sullivan. Guys,
please check out our chat with Michael Churnis.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
We're so pumped.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
I mean not to be too creepy, but I did
see you at Baggage Claim at JFK like last month.
I feel if you felt like someone was staring at you,
it was me.

Speaker 3 (01:14:40):
Is that why I got asked to do this podcast?

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
No, we've been trying for a while and we have
a mutual as well. But when I texted care immediately,
I'm like, he's here. Yeah, it was a sign now
CARESI is brother in law.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
We had to do it. Yeah, old Tommy boy, poor
guy Tommy Sullivan.

Speaker 3 (01:15:03):
That a tough go.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
What how did your SVU like story start? You started
out on season thirteen? Do you remember auditioning? Did you
like the show in advance? Like, are you one of
those people, like a New York actor who'd been in
that room like twelve times and then you finally got
an SVU part?

Speaker 3 (01:15:20):
I yes, I had been in all the rooms like
twelve this, so I've only ever done SVU. I never
did Law and Order Classic. I never did Criminal Intent.
I feel like I auditioned for Criminal Intent, like not
even kidding, like twenty times. I remember this audition because well,
actually sorry, I auditioned for the first one Educated Guests.

(01:15:41):
I remember because it's the two scenes. There's an interrogation
scene and then there's the scene in the mental health
facility where I throw the chair and that's like some
acting is required, and so in an audition that's always
awkward where you just have to go for it and
people are just staring at you, and I really thought
I totally screwed it up and was shocked when I

(01:16:04):
got offered that episode.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
Did you throw a chair? How did you do it
in the room?

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
That's a good question. I did not throw a chair,
but I think I like picked up the chair that
you know, that horrible half acting thing in an audition
where I picked it up and like gestured like I
threw it and I had to put it back down.
But then I think I was just offered this one
that we're talking about right for all violations because I

(01:16:30):
was a returning friend. I was shocked to look up
how close they were together. They're only three and a
half years apart. Yeah, yeah, I had forgotten how close.
I mean, there are two different characters and they're totally
pretty close together in the Cannon.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
Yes, And we talk about that all the time. We
debate because sometimes it bothers me if somebody is too close,
because I'm like, I remember that guy from another episode, Like, yeah,
he hasn't had time to clear in my mind yet
before he gets into another episode.

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
But I.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
And I knew you from other stuff, so I was
just like, it's fine, we'll get him back in here.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Can you tell us about the iced tea moment in
your first episode? Being in his diamond was sparkling, sparkling.

Speaker 3 (01:17:15):
I was so intimidated. I was. I was a big
fan of iced tea. I'm a fan of iced tea,
but as a kid, I loved him. And uh, Coco
was there. She was there, and that was wild. You
probably everyone has talked about this, but the dressing room
area is really small, and so everybody's just kind of

(01:17:37):
their rooms are all right there, and so Coco was
just like hanging out in the dressing room area. And
I don't even ice mister t I don't remember whatever
I used to call him, but he was great. He
was lovely, and it was you know, it's always very fast.
I rewatched both of them recently. I was like, god,

(01:17:58):
I remember just when you're guess, it's such a weird
thing to be dropped in the middle of this, you know,
especially with SVU, this train that's just been rolling for
years and everybody, the regulars, know what they're doing, and
you're just it's your first day and it's just crazy,
you know. And so he was awesome. I don't really
remember much more than just being totally freaked out and

(01:18:20):
probably have like standing outside of myself the whole time.
And yeah, but he was great. And the chair throwing
day was weird because anytime you have to do any
kind of anything that could be violent, even though it's
like I'm throwing it at a wall, there's just so
many more people who are involved on set, like stunt coordinators,

(01:18:41):
And I just got really in my head about throwing
this chair, and I remember just like, how do I
do that?

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
This?

Speaker 3 (01:18:48):
How would I? So, yeah, it's just always very awkward
to be dropped in the middle of a show like this.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
Yeah, so were you nervously you wouldn't throw the chair
hard enough or.

Speaker 3 (01:18:59):
Like I'd throw it hard enough, or like throw it
on the mark, or that it would just look wimpy,
or that I would it would bounce off the wall
and like hit somebody, like kill Danny Pino or something.
It's such a weird thing too. I'm sure everybody talks
about this, but you know, everyone on these episodes are
just great New York actors who I've known for years.

(01:19:21):
I've known Kelly Gettish for years, and Peter Scanavino and
all these people I've just we've all been in play
readings and audition rooms together for decades now, and so
it's so fun to watch Law and Order and just
see this great parade of New York actors every episode.

Speaker 1 (01:19:40):
So what happened when you, like, originally read the script
for this, were you surprised? Because this is like a
literal flipping of the script. The show does not have
grown male victims that often on the show, and they
kind of twisted things around here. So when you first
read it and.

Speaker 2 (01:19:56):
The drug dealer reveal, I feel is like an exciting
twist as well.

Speaker 3 (01:20:01):
Yeah, I was honored to be a victim, I know.
I remember reading it and thinking, Wow, this is a
real this is really meaty, this is a this is
a challenge because I think previously some of the other
parts I'd auditioned for on SVU were like smaller, you know, this,
this really there were a lot of scenes and it
was it was sort of this unexpected twist. I feel

(01:20:21):
like now even now it feels a little dated, but
at the time it was like shocking. I remember the
commercials for it before the episode air were like a
male rape victim, dun dun, du, Like it was just
something you've never heard of Yeah, which, of course it
of course that happens as they talk about in the episode.
But yeah, I felt like, oh, this is exciting, this

(01:20:42):
is different. This could I don't want to say like groundbreaking,
but it could be interesting and something that people don't
usually see or think about.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:20:52):
Yeah, so it felt like a good challenge.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
Oh yeah, well I think like what we're done. Sorry,
I'm like all over the place. I feel like we
both are huge orangs. So we love it. I love
your character from that show with cal and there seemed
to be like a little bit of him in this.
What's the timeline? Like, was this while you were doing
Orange or was this like after?

Speaker 3 (01:21:14):
Yeah, it was doing it. I mean, you know, Orange
is seven seasons, so so much of what I've done
has been also while Orange was happening. There's a moment
in one of the earlier seasons of Orange where I
was also on a World War two drama called Manhattan
about the Manhattan Project in the creation of bum and
so I had like a short nineteen forties mustache all

(01:21:37):
of a sudden, and I had they had to write
something into Orange where Piper says like, are you in
like a World War two cosplay group or something. And
so I feel like I was always showing up with
different like hair lengths and stuff on Orange because I
was just a recurring character. Yeah, yeah, a couple. So
yeah this this I think aired in twenty fifteen.

Speaker 1 (01:22:01):
Yeah, violations.

Speaker 3 (01:22:03):
Yeah, so yeah, that was right in that we shot
the first episode of Orange. We shot in twenty twelve.
I think it was like the fall of twenty twelve.
And you know, it was so weird back then. We
didn't know what it was going to be because a
Netflix show like House of Cards hadn't come out yet.
There was no blueprint for like what a streaming show was.

(01:22:25):
You had HBO shows, but like what's the Netflix show.
So we shot that whole first season not really knowing
like what the impact of it was going to be, and.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
It changed everything, really did in a lot of ways. Yeah,
and you're in a hit show now, Yeah, several.

Speaker 3 (01:22:43):
A hit New York show.

Speaker 1 (01:22:44):
It feels great that shoots in New York too.

Speaker 3 (01:22:46):
That's a New York show. Wow, wow wow, yeah, severances.
I think it's amazing. And you know, I always think
it's kind of hokey when actors say this, but it's
I think it's a work of art, Like just visual
what the design team and our cinematographer and our producer
Ben Stiller did visually alone isn't extraordinary, And then the

(01:23:09):
writing is incredible, the detail that's involved, and then the performances.
It's really I think a special program do you play?

Speaker 1 (01:23:18):
Like what kind of character do you play in that?
Because I feel like I see like a through line
kind of between Cal and this character on SVU, But like,
are you somebody totally different on severance or like not
at all, kind of like a lovable like what I
didn't know?

Speaker 3 (01:23:33):
I think it must it must just be me because
people on Twitter, not always in a nice way, have
been saying like he plays the same part and everything.
I mean, this guy is like a little more grown
up maybe than Cal, but he's a sort of a
pretentious New age like self help writer, but he's definitely

(01:23:55):
like hippie dippy. And his name is doctor Rick and Hale.
And I'm married to the main character's sister. My wife
is Adam Scott's character's sister, so I'm Mark the main
character's brother in law. And I don't want to spoil anything,
but I've written a book called The You You are

(01:24:19):
that is a self help book that then has some
impact on the.

Speaker 1 (01:24:23):
Ruh Okay, yeah, no spoilers. I really want to watch
the whole thing I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:24:28):
Talking about, kind of like the lovable silliness of your characters.
And I really love the scene where they're visiting you
and your your prison jumpsuit and they let you know
that they like told a supervisor and You're.

Speaker 1 (01:24:40):
Like, what the why would you do that?

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
And I knew it was all very serious, but I
did find myself like laughing during that scene.

Speaker 3 (01:24:47):
No, it's ridiculous. I watched it too, and I was laughing,
what is going on? Because I'm just in this orange
trump or I look like a giant orange toddler, and uh,
we're happiness. It feels like like the blocking is like
we're trying to be in like reservoir dogs or something too.
It's media Peters Cannabino and Danny Pino and we're just
like standing around, moving around like we're talking. I think

(01:25:10):
the directors should like just be quiet. I was trying
to do like a big acting thing at one point,
and they were like, yeah, but someone could be listening.
You never know if a guard's gonna walk by. Or whatever. No,
it's hushed. I love how seriously everyone takes being on SVU,
because like when you're watching it at home, I'm like,
this is ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
No, I know, And like, especially if you go into
old seasons, we always talk about how like there's really campy,
kind of crazy episodes in like the earlier seasons. It's
become like more serious now where they don't really do
that anymore. But back in the day it would be like, wait,
there's a there's a gibbon in a basketball what's happening? Like,
you know, there would be like all these wacky episodes.

(01:25:51):
But also I think it's funny when like you're obviously
a skilled dramatic actor, but you've done comedy as well,
and you can just tell when comedy people like they
can't not make so funny sometimes, Like like even Martin
Short was like a total creep in an episode of SBU,
but he had like one or two lines where you're like,
you can still tell he's a comedy guy. You know
this horrible like killing There.

Speaker 3 (01:26:14):
Are plenty of funny creeps.

Speaker 1 (01:26:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:26:16):
Yeah, we love to be funny while they're being creepy. Yeah, No,
I think you have to I mean you have to
say yes to the moment, right, I mean that's sort
of easy. But like if you're standing around in a
orange jumper talking to detectives with New York accents, it's
just you kind of are like it just you have

(01:26:38):
to acknowledge the ridiculousness of it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:40):
Sometimes Oh yeah made New York accents. Those two.

Speaker 3 (01:26:43):
I mean yeah, there's some big accents happening too. Yeah.
I was like, wow, Wow, everyone's going for it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:50):
Cheated on my pregnant sister, Like yeah, bella, bella creasy.
I do want to know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:57):
You know, you've been working out there, You're booked, you're
a blessed and worked with cool people. Are so are
there moments that you've been really starstruck or you've been
like holy shit, Like what are kind of your you know,
things you'd like to share highlight wise where you were like,
oh my god, so many.

Speaker 3 (01:27:17):
One. Very recently, I was at the Critics' Choice Awards
on the Red Carpet, and which is just a cavalcade
of starstruck. You know, all these very famous people. But
I was doing some on camera interview and they're all
just one right after the other in a line you know,
and I'm talking to some person and next to me,
all of a sudden appears Paul Riser. And as a teenager,

(01:27:41):
I was obsessed with Matt About You. I'm not even
kidding obsessed. I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, and I
really wanted to move to New York and I really
wanted to be an actor, and I think for me
it it felt like a real honest representation of living
in New York City. So my junior of high school,

(01:28:01):
there was always like the Fall Play and the Spring Musical.
But in the winter there was this open slot called
the Underground Theater at my high school where juniors and
seniors could direct like a little skit or whatever. They
would give upperclassmen like a half an hour to direct
something at my high school. And so I decided I
would direct an episode of Mad About You for the

(01:28:22):
stage oh and cast myself as Paul Buckman, which is
the character Paul Riser played. And I was going to
choose a crossover Seinfeld Mad About You episode where Kramer
appears and we find out that Kramer's apartment on Seinfeld
actually used to belong to Paul Reiser, and he's actually
subletting it to Kramer. So I now have the task

(01:28:46):
of casting a Kramer from Rocky River High School in
the suburbs of Cleveland, and also in nineteen ninety three
or whenever, this was how you adapted Mad About You
for the stage, or how I did to tape it
with the DCR and then press play and then they'd
say a line, you press pause and write it down

(01:29:07):
on a piece of paper. And so I hand wrote
the entire episode and then took it to my dad's
office on the weekend to use the xerox machine and
xerox copies of this and held auditions at my high school.
And so like I was this Mad About You super
fan who like did a Rushmore style stage production, And

(01:29:29):
all of a sudden, years later, I'm standing a sub
Pauliser on the carpet and I freaked out, like I
couldn't believe I was staying Wow, my hero. I got
to work with Tom Hanks on Captain Phillips for like
eight weeks, which was extraordinary, and we one of the
first nights we both slept overnight on the ship like

(01:29:51):
we were normally staying at a hotel, but we had
a real, actual merchant Marine container ship that we shot
the movie on, and we asked if we could like
spend the night at sea with a real crew of
actual merchantcymen who were operating the ship. And so that
was crazy. Meeting him and spending that much time with

(01:30:12):
him was definitely a starstruck moment.

Speaker 1 (01:30:14):
The idea was it to sleep on the ship.

Speaker 3 (01:30:17):
It was Tom's and I just totally you know, weaseled
my way in. I was like, I want to do
that too. But another quick Cleveland story. When I was
a kid, my best friend's mom worked at the local
regional theater, the Great Legs Theater Festival, and that's actually
where Hanks got his very first professional acting job, like
where he got his equity card during Shakespeare and he

(01:30:40):
comes back a lot to like give back and he
did this one night fundraiser where he did a one
man performance or whatever, and my best friend's mom was like,
do you guys want to come see the show for
free and then you can work the after party like
be bus boys or whatever. I was like, oh my god, yes,
I have to do that. And our first task of

(01:31:00):
the night after the show was to stand at this
Cleveland restaurant in the parking lot. It was a snowy, cold,
bitter cold Cleveland night, and we had to stand in
the parking space right in front of the restaurant, right
in front of the door for mister Hanks's car. And
we're out there freezing all night waiting for him to
show up. And his car finally pulls up and he

(01:31:21):
jumps out of the car and he's really skinny because
he'd been doing Philadelphia at the time. Oh, and he's
got this weird little beanie cap on and he sees
us and he goes, how's it going, cats, And like
my little teenage brain was blown. And all night I
just stood near his table like weirdly, trying to refill

(01:31:43):
his water every thirty seconds and not doing any of
my other bus boy duties. And it was just like
a pivotal memory for me as a kid. And so
then fast forward years later, I'm on this like ship
in Malta where we made Captain Phillips, spending the night
with him and we're just shooting the ship and he's like,
where are you from. I'm from Cleveland. He's like, oh,
I know Cleveland. I was like, I know. We met,

(01:32:05):
and I told him that whole story, and his only
response to the entire story was, I never would have said.

Speaker 1 (01:32:12):
Cats, he's looking that's so cute. You're kind of witchy.
You know, these moments coming back from your childhood you
manifested at all.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
So what was the first thing that made because you're Juilliard,
you're you know, an actor. What was Did you grow
up in an artsy home? Was it mad about you?
What was it that like made.

Speaker 1 (01:32:41):
You do it?

Speaker 3 (01:32:42):
No, not a particularly artsy home at all. But I
had very supportive parents. My mom especially was just that
type of mom. It would drive me to play practice,
and you know, I was like a dorky kid. Surprise, surprise,
an actor who was a dorky kid. I was like

(01:33:03):
a chubby kid, and sports weren't my thing, and I
didn't really have like a real friend group, and I
just stumbled upon the eighth grade play. Really like, I
had a great English teacher who would always make us
get up and read from Dickens or whatever thing we
were reading, and he said, like, you have a great

(01:33:25):
speaking voice, you should audition for the school play. And
in this eighth grade they were doing a production of
the Hobbit, and I auditioned and was cast as Gandalf
the Wizard and just fell in love with it. I
mean just was immediately like I was struck by lightning.
Like I was like, this is what I want to
do in every element, Like there were other kids who

(01:33:47):
seemed like me, who were obsessed with TV and movies
and pop culture, and everybody was nice and not mean,
and I wasn't getting beat up, and I felt like
I was good at it and like had almost like
this innate in stinked for doing it. Also my dad,
you know, as a young man, I was like always
wanting my dad's like attention and approval, and supposedly when

(01:34:10):
I first came on stage, he was like very moved
by me speaking on stage, and my first line was,
ah the Shire, how delicious the morning is in this
part of the world. The air is stuffed with comfort.
And for years then my dad would always like come
down to breakfast and go, ah the Shire, Ah the Shire.

(01:34:33):
That's how you sounded, Mike, ah the shy or this
booming voice. And so is this this like folklore in
my family of ah the Shire and almost became like
shorthand for just like a major moment was like an
ah the shier moment. And years later I had a
woman I was dating in New York come home for
the holidays with me, and I was like, we gotta

(01:34:53):
pop in the tape, we gotta I gotta show you
where it all started, you know, Ah the Shire, And
this grainy VHS tape out comes this kid in like
a Halloween wizard outfit, this a purple robe with like
a fake white beard, and I'm like.

Speaker 1 (01:35:10):
Oh, the Shire, how the morning stuff with comforts?

Speaker 3 (01:35:17):
Not a boomer thirteen year old, cracking pre pubescent.

Speaker 1 (01:35:24):
I love that? So heartwarming.

Speaker 3 (01:35:27):
Ah, thanks, we went deep. Who knew? Speaking of people,
so one more like uh, one person that I was
like just starstruck by and who did a jerky thing
and I just can't reconcile it with my memory of
him is Will Smith, who, of course last year did
a jerky thing at the Oscars. But like I worked

(01:35:49):
with him on Men in Black three and I didn't
have a lot of credits to my name at the time,
and he was just the best, Like he was so
kind to me, and you know, like Marishka, I feel
like maybe when people are like a producer on something
as well, and they are sort of the franchisers is
like an added responsibility. But he would always call me

(01:36:09):
Big Mic and you'd be like, we got Big Mic today,
we got Big Mic on set. Let's go this is
a big day MiB three. And he was just such
a He was so supportive of me, and he didn't
have to be. I had two little scenes, but one
of my scenes is on the top of the Chrysler
building and we're both gonna He's gonna jump off of
it to go back in time with whatever some men

(01:36:30):
in Black three made up time travel logic. So we
obviously we weren't on the top of the Chrysler building,
but it was on a sound stage and they'd built
maybe a thirty foot high replica of the top of
the maybe even forty foot. It was this huge, huge
thing in this giant warehouse at Steiner Studios, and it
looked just like the top of the Chrysler building, which

(01:36:51):
has these four like eagle heads or griffin heads coming
off of it, and that's what we had to stand
on and Agent j was going to jump off of
So we're up very high and we're harnessed in so
we don't if we fall, we don't die, and they
have all these giant fans that are going to blow
on us to represent like alien ships blowing air on

(01:37:13):
us or whatever. And the whole crew is down below
and Barry Sondenfeld's directing, and he has like literally a
megaphone because we're so far away from him. And I've
rehearsed this scene so many times beforehand with Will at home.
But I've all this made up, you know, alien gobblede gooks,
you know, made up nonsense that I have to say.

(01:37:34):
And the first take they call action and I walk
out to the edge of this eagle head and I
can't remember a word of it. Like I not only
can I not remember my lines, I don't know who
I am, Like I couldn't tell you my address or
and I go into like a fugue state. I'm just like,
uh a line, and Barry Sonenfeld yells through the megaphone

(01:37:57):
like God Jesus Christ and like go back, go back
to one reset, and I'm totally freaking out. I'm like,
my career is over. I'm gonna get fired. And I
say to mister Will Smith, I'm like, I'm so sorry,
and he goes, what are you apologizing for? We make
movies and pieces. We're gonna be here all day. We're
gonna do like a million takes of this. I'm gonna

(01:38:19):
forget stuff. You're gonna forget stuff. We're gonna have lunch,
we're gonna come back, we're gonna be tired after lunch.
We're gonna forget more lines. We make movies and pieces.
Let's go, let's do it. And it was like the
greatest gift ever. It was just like this moment where
he just opened it up for me and it was like, oh, right, right, yeah,
we make movies and pieces. This isn't a play like
I didn't. And I say that now all the time

(01:38:41):
to other actors. If I'm on a show and there's
a guest star who forgets their lines and goes into
a panic attack tailspin, I say, don't worry about it.
We make movies and pieces. Yeah, and so yeah, it
was just that was such a shot. I mean, we
don't need to talk about it because it's been dissected
in the press for the past year. But I was
shocked to see that level of violent aggression from him

(01:39:03):
because he was just the kindest man in the world
to me, and he didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:39:07):
Have to be Yeah, that's so nice. He was my
first celebrity crush.

Speaker 3 (01:39:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:39:14):
I mean we always say too. You never know what
people are going through. You never know what's going on
in someone else's life, you know, So who knows what
that day? That in evening? Who knows? We weren't inside
of his head.

Speaker 2 (01:39:26):
And Kara's a new parenting thing. I learned two things
can be true and.

Speaker 1 (01:39:30):
Yeah, that's why you say that to my kids all
the time and say that all Yeah, besides besides severance,
is there anything you want our listeners to check out,
anything coming up that you have going on?

Speaker 3 (01:39:43):
Yes, I'm in something very cool that comes out April
twenty first on Amazon Video called Dead Ringers, which is
based on the Cronenberg film from the eighties that starred
Jeremy Irons very famously. At the time, it was a
big deal because Jeremy Irons played twins, played both characters,
and he was on camera with himself, which was groundbreaking

(01:40:05):
I think at the time. Now, this is a six
part limited series and Rachel Weiss, the very very talented,
lovely Rachel Weiss, plays the to the twins, the twin
characters the Mantle Twins, Elliot and Beverly Mantle. So it's
a it's a wild sort of thriller, psychological thriller, sort

(01:40:28):
of sci fi about these two brilliant scientists doctors who
are opening a state of the art women's birthing center
in New York. Yeah. So I play an embryologist on
the show who is sort of the best and maybe
only friend of one of the two Mantle twins, Elliott Mantle,
who Rachel Vice plays. And it's really good. I think

(01:40:50):
it's really weird and fun and sexy and creepy and
thought provoking. So that's April twenty first on Amazon. Her list.

Speaker 2 (01:41:02):
The moment I saw her in The Mummy as a child,
it really made an impact on our whole family.

Speaker 1 (01:41:09):
I would say, the traders love her so gorgeous that
I can't wait to watch this.

Speaker 3 (01:41:17):
Yeah, check it, ass, thank.

Speaker 1 (01:41:20):
You, thank you so much for taking the time attack
to us. Michael was fun.

Speaker 3 (01:41:25):
It was so fun.

Speaker 1 (01:41:30):
I love him. He's so funny. Okay, wait, so I
gotta tell you guys. After the interview, he messaged us
and was like, I forgot to tell this story. So
I said I would read it at our outro, and
he goes, I feel like such an idiot. I forgot
a really good story during our interview after my Tommy O.
Sullivan episode of SVU air of this one. He's like,
my wife and I were in the West Village at

(01:41:51):
a clothing store and this woman kept staring at me
and it was kind of weird. She kept sort of
following us around the store and she looked very concerned.
Finally she comes up to me and says, are you okay? Hey,
how are you doing? She had completely mixed me up
with the character and thought that I, Michael Turnis had
been raped by my parole officer. So I said, people
tell Kelly Giddis she shouldn't be in a casino. So
you're not the first person to get mixed up with

(01:42:13):
your mistaken for your SBU character.

Speaker 2 (01:42:16):
But he's a badass. I hope his baby maybe yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:42:20):
And the baby was born.

Speaker 2 (01:42:21):
The baby was born, Yo, fantastic. I'm so happy for him.
His joyous, great spirit and his fun name drops stories,
you know, like I love learning all the cool stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:42:36):
Yeah, he was great. So postmortem on this episode, I
guess is like the depressing state of the parole like
institution in our country that they just fucking own you
and can make you do anything, and that sucks, and
there's corruption everywhere. But I'm glad that this person got caught. Lisa.

(01:42:58):
Any final thoughts, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:43:00):
Great acting. I'm glad everyone learned that men can get raped.
Susan Sharon is a god.

Speaker 1 (01:43:06):
Yeah, Susan Sharon forever.

Speaker 2 (01:43:08):
I don't know. I have nothing else. The parole system sucks,
police suck. Joe Rogan fans are out of their minds.
And great episode, and I enjoyed covering it. I mean
it was it was.

Speaker 1 (01:43:22):
Yeah. I like the I like sort of. I really
want a future episode with like Bella Caresi, Sarah Fina Caresi.
I want to see Rollin's interacting with the Cores women.
There's there's two more sisters that seem off their rockers
that we've never met. We tried to cast them. Let's
fucking see it. I want to see this happen. Maybe well,
I mean apparently there's like a baby coming between them,

(01:43:44):
so we'll see. But let's get into our what would
Sister Peg do? This is our weekly segment where we
direct you to a blog post, a podcast episode, an organization,
something to help you get more info about whatever we
touched on in this week's episode, and this week I
want to point you guys to the Anti Recidivism Coalition.
Recidivism is like returning back to incarceration after you are

(01:44:08):
released because a lot of people, we don't make it
easy for people who have just gotten out of prison
to reintegrate into society. And so the goal of this
coalition is to quote empower formerly and currently incarcerated people
to thrive by providing a support network, comprehensive re entry services,
and opportunities to advocate for policy change. So they provide advocacy,

(01:44:30):
mental health services, housing and creative groups that provide quote
healing through creative expressions. So I love that, and I
really feel like Orange is the New Black with tasty
storyline and piper storyline of getting out and what it's
like to get out and get back into the world
is like made me realize that this is a big
problem for people. So check out Anti Recidivism dot org

(01:44:51):
for more info and you can donate and as usual,
that will be saved in the highlight WWSPD on our
Instagram page the day the episode comes out. Yes, thank
you for that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:03):
I've really I'm thinking of Orange I liked the post
people made about the writer's strike where it was like
the Shield put FX on the map, mad Men put
AMC on the map, House of Cards put Netflix on
the map, not CEOs. CEOs left to creativity, you get quibbi. Yes,
I saw that tweet. I love that, And that's how
I feel. It's like a why don't they fucking see it?

(01:45:24):
I don't know what they think is gonna happen. They
think people are just gonna go back and watch old
stuff or stuff that's just there, that they don't need
new stuff, so they're willing to just not make new programming.
The I listened to a whole episode of the podcast
today with my friend Adam Conover, who's like one of
the heads of the WGA negotiating people, and like it's

(01:45:46):
like they're not coming to the table on crazy shit,
Like they're like, hey, can we just agree that, like
you can't use AI to replace us and the AMTMP
or whatever. Like the Negotiating Studio Organization was like we
can agree to have a meeting about it once a year,
and it's like what, Like that's not what anyone's asking
for as a yearly meeting to stop robots from taking

(01:46:09):
our jobs, you know, so like it's they're really not
coming to the table on all. And I heard that
they are just focused on creating content for background so
people could be on their phones, and they don't care
about making good television. They just need something to be
there while we're scrolling. It's wy yes, sorry, I feel
like maybe I'm Yeah. Also, if you've made it to

(01:46:32):
the bitter end, I watched Shrek three yesterday.

Speaker 1 (01:46:34):
Great, it was great. It's is that when he has
the triplets? Yeah, yeah, it was cute. I've watched it. Yeah,
I haven't seen that one.

Speaker 2 (01:46:47):
And next week we will be doing asunder a word
that Kara will tell us what it means next week,
season two, episode seven. For another she say, another fantastic
episode of our podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:47:00):
Thank you so much. They're all fantastic. Guys. Give us
a follow on Instagram. See what we're up to. That's
Messed Up pod at instagram dot com. And then when
and I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:47:11):
Doing stand up in Denver after we podcast, so stick.

Speaker 1 (01:47:16):
Around, guys, go see Lisa. She's doing stand up at
Denver Comedy Works right around when we're doing our podcast.
Check their schedule and see you guys next week.

Speaker 2 (01:47:37):
That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.

Speaker 1 (01:47:40):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:47:47):
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
personally at Karraklank and.

Speaker 1 (01:47:55):
At glitter Cheese. As always, please see our show notes
for sources and more information.

Speaker 2 (01:48:01):
Thank you so much to our producer Kacy O'Brien, and to.

Speaker 1 (01:48:04):
Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner,
and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive
producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at
Exactly Right Media. Dun Dun

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Kara Klenk

Liza Treyger

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Parole Violations w/ Michael Chernus