March 15, 2024 • 30 mins
Unexplained will return next week.
In place of this week's episode, this is one from the vaults...
When 3 year old Shanti Devi becomes convinced she has lived another life before, her parents assume it’s just a childish game.
Today many consider her story to be nothing less than absolute proof of reincarnation…
Go to @unexplainedpod, facebook.com/unexplainedpodcast or www.unexplainedpodcast.com for more info. Thank you for listening.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, it's Richard mclin smith here. Unfortunately, due to a
slight bout of illness, I've not been able to get
this week's episode ready in time. The show will return
as per normal next week, but in the meantime, here's
an episode from the vaults. It starts back in the
nineteen twenties in Delhi, India, when three year old Shanty
(00:21):
Devi becomes convinced she's lived another life before her parents
assume it's just a childish game. Today, many consider her
story to be nothing less than absolute proof of reincarnation.
This is unexplained Season three episode ten, Here is Always
(00:44):
Somewhere Else. On January eighteenth, nineteen oh two, in the
Indian town of Mattaa, ninety miles southeast of Delhi, a
young couple Yagte and chatterbudge By, celebrate the birth of
(01:08):
a baby girl. Ten years later, the child, whom they
named Lugdi, is given up for marriage to a local
shopkeeper named keddinat Chowbie. After many years of marriage, Lugdi
fell pregnant, but was devastated to learn only a week
before she was due to give birth that the baby
(01:30):
had died. Some years later, by then twenty three, Lugdi
was overjoyed to discover she was pregnant once more, but
again there were complications. Fearing for his wife and unborn child,
Kdinat rushed them to the much better equipped hospital in
(01:51):
the city of Agra, thirty miles away. It was there
the next day, on September twenty fifth, nineteen twenty five,
that Lugdi gave birth to a healthy baby boy named Nabonite.
For Lugdi, however, the pregnancy had taken a hefty toll.
(02:13):
She would not live to see the child she had
brought into the world, dying nine days later. On the
morning of October fourth, five years later, and roughly six
hundred miles to the south, in the coastal town of Dandy,
(02:33):
a gentle looking man, modestly dressed in a pristine white
doughty and shawl, reaches down into the wet mud at
his feet, lifting a handful of it into the air.
He turns to the fifty thousand strong crowd of men
and women who have waited twenty six days for this
very moment, and declared, with this, I am shaking the
(02:57):
foundations of the British Empire. Next, the man filtered salt
granules from the mud and placed them in a pot
of boiling sea water. He watched with a smile as
the water slowly began to evaporate, liberating the salt from
its bonds, until with the water having all but vanished,
(03:19):
the salt was all that remained at the bottom of
the pan. The man was Mahandas Karamchant Gandhi, perhaps better
known as Mahatma Gandhi. With this powerful, peaceful gesture, Gandhi,
who had walked for twenty six days to get to
the coast, had shone a light on a greedy and
(03:41):
restrictive salt tax that had been imposed on the people
of India by British colonial powers. As with all empires,
there comes a time when the ruling powers are no
longer able to reconcile the myth of their great nation
with the truth of what it is to sustain it.
(04:02):
And so it would prove with Great Britons. With Gandhi's
iconic Salt March proving an irresistible catalyst, opposition to British
rule among both the local Indian population and the British
public intensified. Though at the time the empire's Viceroy Lord Irwin,
(04:25):
equipped that Gandhi's Salt campaign would be unlikely to keep
him up all night. Only seventeen years later, the Indian
nation achieved independence. After the Salt March, Gandhi's position as
a leading statesman and as the head of the Indian
independence movement had been thoroughly secured. As such, his trust
(04:49):
and judgment was often sought on a number of wide
ranging events and incidences, provided they were of sufficient importance.
None were quite as strange, perhaps as that which was
presented to him in nineteen thirty five regarding a peculiar
case of a young girl who claimed to have already
(05:10):
died ten years previously. You're listening to Unexplained, and I'm
Richard McLean Smith. Born in December nineteen twenty six, Shanty
Devy rarely cried as a baby, despite living in the
(05:33):
intense bustle of inner city Delhi. Having grown into a
shy and quiet toddler, it was all the more surprising
when the young girl became suddenly agitated one afternoon. This
wasn't her home, she complained to her perplexed mother. My
house was much bigger, she said. Shanty's mother naturally assuming
(05:58):
her daughter to be playing a game, did her best
to ignore her strange proclamations. It was far harder, however,
for her to ignore Shanty's insistence that she wasn't her
mother at all. Her real mother lived in the city
of Mattra, over ninety miles away, as did her husband
and sisters. For the next year, Shanty continued to talk
(06:23):
about another life, claiming that her name was in fact Lugdi.
One evening, at the dinner table, after her mother had
dished out the food, Shanty screwed up her face and
pushed her plate away. It isn't right to eat animals,
she said, I won't do it. The now four year
(06:44):
old Shanty went on to explain that she and her
husband only ate sat for food, a group of foods
that pertained to the Hindu modes of existence, consisting only
of meat free, energy enriching foods. Only Shanty's parents weren't Hindus,
nor could they fathom how a four year old child
(07:06):
could have learnt such a thing. A few years later,
with Shanty showing no sign of dropping the charade, she
explained blankly one morning that she had died giving birth
to a child, and that she wanted to see her
husband again. But when Shanty's mother asked who he was,
(07:27):
she would say only that when she knew him, he
sold fabrics and that he owned a shop near the
Duar Kadije temple in Matra. Though Shanty's parents try to
reassure themselves that their daughter's behavior is only a phase,
it is hard not to be concerned. It is said
(07:47):
in the Vedic Scriptures, the most sacred text of Hinduism,
that any child who could remember a past life was
destined to die young. Growing increasingly unsettled, Shanty's parents forbade
her from talking any more about her past life, but
Shanty never lost sight of her dream to return to
(08:10):
her long lost family in Matura. It was some time
in nineteen thirty five that Babu Bhushan Chand first heard
about Shanty's strange obsession. Chand was a teacher at Shanty's
(08:34):
school in the Daria Gang district of Delhi. Being a
relative also, he couldn't help but be intrigued. After overhearing
the now eight year old girl telling yet another friend
how she needed to find a way to get to
Matura to visit her husband, determined to see if Shanty
was telling the truth. Chand demanded that she tell him
(08:57):
the name of her husband. She refused. Chand offered to
take her to matter himself if she would only give
him his name. The young girl hesitated, explaining that it
would not be correct to speak his name, but finally relented.
She gestured for Chand to bend down and whispered it
(09:20):
into his ear, ca denat Choubi, but that wasn't all.
She knew his address as well. Before rushing off to
visit the man, Chand suggested they write him a letter
first to see if he can help verify her claims. Together,
(09:42):
they composed it, putting in everything that Shanty had said
that she was once married to a man named Choubi
who had owned a fabric shop near the Dewa Kadish
temple in Mattera. She added also that one of their
homes was painted yellow and that she believed her name
to be Lugdi. After posting the letter, Chand waited for
(10:06):
almost two weeks before finally receiving a reply. I did
have a wife who died named Lugdi, it said, and
I have a shop very close to the Duwa Kadish
temple and my name is Kennedat Chaubi in matterra Kedanat
(10:27):
had barely slept since first receiving Shanty's letter. Having sent
his reply to chand he contacted a cousin, Pandit Kanjamaal,
who lived in Delhi, and asked him to visit Shanty
and her parents on his behalf A few days later,
an astounded Pandit sat with the young girl and her
(10:48):
parents as she detailed the layout and location of the
house that Lugdi used to live in with his cousin,
also describing perfectly the streets close to it that she
had worn many times before. When she asked about the
health of her son, a stunned Pandit can only mutter
(11:08):
that he is doing well. When Kadinat's cousin bids farewell
to Shanty later that evening, it is with the absolute
conviction that he had just spoken to Kdenat's deceased wife.
The following day, he traveled to his cousin's home to
deliver the incredible news. It was only a few days later,
(11:36):
on November twelfth, that Pandit returned to Shanty's home along
with Kdinat and his new wife, as well as ten
year old Nabonite, the son that Lugti had died after
giving birth to. When they arrived, Shanty's mother, who was
clearly troubled by the situation, was there to greet them
(11:57):
at the door, explained that Shanty had not yet returned
from school, but invited them inside, none the less to
sit and wait for her. When the young girl returned
home half an hour later, it had been decided that
they would try and catch her out, having been informed
that more people had come to speak to her about
(12:19):
her supposed past life. Shanty was led into the living
room and introduced to a few of the guests, including Kadenat,
who was introduced as an older brother of Lugdi's, but
Shanty was confused. No, she said, that is my husband.
(12:39):
Walking straight up to him, she bowed her head and
stood by his side, as was customary for the time.
Kdinat could only stare at, dumbstruck at the strangely confident
little girl stood beside him. A moment later, Nabonite was
shown into the room. At the sight of the young boy,
(13:03):
Shanty's eyes widened and began to well up. She rushed
toward him and hugged him tightly. My son, she cried,
you were my son. Immediately, Shanty turned to her mother
and asked her for all her toys to be brought
for the young boy, but she refused as she tried
(13:25):
to comprehend what exactly was happening before her. Shanty eventually
gathered them up herself and offered them to the boy. Later,
Shanty's parents watched their daughter leave the house with the
chowbees with the creeping sensation that maybe she hadn't been
making everything up after all. That afternoon, having taken a
(13:50):
trip round the city with Kedanat's family, it was said
that Shanty held on to Nabonite's hand the entire time.
That evening, the two families gathered again to talk, but
something was ailing the young girl. She couldn't stop staring
at the jewelry on the arm of Kadenat's wife. It
(14:11):
was as if she recognized it. You promised you would
never marry again, she said, turning suddenly to Kdenat. The
man's eyes turned to the floor. Sensing the awkward shift
in the mood, Shanty's father asked his daughter to talk
more about the house she had apparently lived in when
(14:32):
she was lookedy. The young girl's eyes lit up as
she recounted the place in great detail, including how she
loved to bathe and relax by the well located in
the middle of a grand courtyard in the center of
the property. Her apparent recollections drawing tears from Kadenat's eyes
(14:52):
at the memories. It was late evening when the Chowbee
family left the house, though Shanty was inconsolable. Together, they
promised to make arrangements to meet again. It wasn't long
(15:14):
before Shanti's extraordinary story reached the media and in turn,
Mahatma Gandhi. It has been alleged that Gandhi's interest in
the story stemmed as much from political motives as it
did from personal interest, being as it was an apparent
vindication of the Hindu belief system. Nevertheless, his involvement was
(15:36):
hugely significant. Having now met Kdinat, Shanty had only grown
more determined to visit her apparent former home in Mattera,
But every reference to her past life as Lugdi was
just one more break in the hearts of Shanty's parents,
who feared their daughter might be lost for ever if
(15:57):
they agreed to let her go. It was Gandhy who
finally convinced them to let whatever her destiny might be
play out. Such was the farraw surrounding the story. Gandhi
also organized for a committee of journalists and government ministers
to accompany the young girl to Matter to determine for
(16:17):
themselves whether her claims were true or not. And so
it was that on November twenty fourth, Shanty and her
family boarded a train to Matterra, escorted by Gandhy's committee,
which included among them, the respected Member of Parliament Deshpandu Goupta.
(16:39):
That cool morning, as the train trundled through a green
and dusty countryside and a warm, pink haze settled across
the land, a quiet eight year old girl gazed absent
mindedly out of the window, dreaming of a former life.
(17:02):
Having arrived at Mattera station. As the committee disembark, a
crowd of thousands are there to greet them, all desperate
to see the miracle child. As Shanty is led from
the train, the crowd surges forward and a middle aged
man steps into her path. Shanty stops after taking a
(17:23):
moment to look up at the man. She bows down
and touches his feet. Before the man can say anything,
Shanty is already back up. Baboo Ramchaubi. She says hello.
The man cracks a wide smile and turning back to
the crowd, hushes them away to give the child and
(17:44):
the committee room to get through. As they push on
to the front of the station, one of the committee
asks Shanty who the man is, to which she replies,
he is my husband's brother. Outside, the girl is led
into a tanger, a small horse and cart, where she
is joined by Dshbandu Gupta and another committee member, with
(18:09):
the others arranging to follow on behind. Much to Gupta's surprise, Shanty,
who has never been to matter before, wastes no time
in instructing the driver on where to go, telling him
to look out for a yellow house. As they make
their way through the streets, Shanty points out all the
(18:31):
places she remembers and the ones that have changed since
Lugdi's time, all of which the astonished driver confirms to
be true. Turning into one street flanked by a large,
colorful building fronted by a series of delicate arches, Shanty
points out the duwak at each temple, and on the
(18:53):
other side of the street the shop where her husband worked.
Reaching a crossroads. A short time later, she asks the
driver to pull over. But I don't understand, she says,
as she steps down from the cart. It's supposed to
be yellow. The committee members exchange concerned glances as they
(19:16):
follow the young girl across the road toward a decidedly
white house. Though the colour is wrong, the large crowd
of people gathered outside suggests they have indeed come to
the right place. Shanty points out two men standing by
the entrance as her brother and the brother of her
(19:36):
father in law, who both greet her warmly before leading
her inside. Moving from room to room, Shanty amazes everyone
with her apparent recollection of how the house had been
set up when Lugdi had lived there. However, one committee
member is unconvinced. After all, wasn't the house of her
(20:00):
to be yellow, but it was explained one of the
new residents it had been painted over after Lugdi had
died that afternoon. As the crowds continue to grow, the
(20:21):
eight year old girl from Delhi is hoisted onto the
shoulders of one of the committee members before effortlessly guiding
them all to the next property. It is the last
place that Lugdi had lived and Cadenat's current home. She
is especially pleased to find him waiting there for her
when she arrives. After being led inside once again, Shanty
(20:46):
seems able to recall the layout of the house, but
when she moved into the courtyard. Something is wrong the well,
says one of the committee members. You said there was
a well here that used to bathe beside, but there
is not. Without uttering a word, Kedanat walks into the
(21:08):
middle of the square and pulls up a large paving slab,
inviting the committee members to have a look underneath. It
was the well the family had paved over it only
a few years ago. Later, having moved up to one
of the bedrooms on the second floor, Shanty lets out
(21:29):
a short gasp. I remember something, she exclaims, turning to
the group under the floor. I hid a money box
full of savings for a special occasion just there, she says,
pointing to the floor. One of the group pushes at
the spot and finds the floorboard to be loose. He
(21:51):
pulls it up and, to the amazement of all, reveals
a small rusted tin nestled in the space below it.
The tin was, however, the girl, disappointed, turns to Kdenat,
who can only apologize he had found it some time
after Lugdi had died and spent the money on himself.
(22:16):
Satisfied they had seen enough for the day, Shanty made
one more request that they visit the River Yamuna, where
as Lugdi, she had apparently also enjoyed spending lots of
her time. After a short ride to the river, Shanty's parents,
who had endured so much, already watched with a strange
(22:37):
uncertainty as their young daughter gazed out across the water.
Suddenly she was running fast along the bank toward a
house in the distance. As the committee members tried desperately
to keep up, they were relieved to see Shanty stopping
outside another home, where a small crowd of people had
(22:58):
gathered to meet her. It was Lugdi's parents house, and
there standing at the front where Yagti and chatterboush by
Lukedi's parents themselves. Shanty already had tears in her eyes
as she approached the elderly couple. When her parents arrived
(23:20):
moments later, Yagti invited them into the house. As the
congregation of committee members and Lugdi's family sat and talked,
the young girl's parents can only watch with increasing dread
as their daughter, now sitting in Yagti's lap, continued to
(23:43):
amaze everyone with her supposed recollections of her life as Lugdi.
But although Shanty seems elated to be with her old
family again, she is equally struck by a deep melancholy.
Turning to Lukedie's mother, she asks, why did he not
keep bringing me flowers like you promised? Just like with Kedanat,
(24:08):
Yakti can only apologize, holding the girl tighter in her
arms as she wipes their tears away. Then comes the
moment that Shanty's mother had been most dreading. It was
clear that a decision had to be made. Both Lukdi's
family and the Chowbees were far more wealthy than Shanty's parents,
(24:32):
not to mention of a higher caste, and if it
was true that this place really was her home, would
it be wrong to deny her the opportunity to live here?
Yakti suggests the only fair thing to do is to
ask Shanty herself what she wants. Shanty's mother reluctantly agrees,
(24:55):
taking her daughter by the hand and trying not to
cry as she asks her the devastating question. All in
the room are silent as they watched the little girl
think on her decision. Then, after a moment's pause, she
turns to Luhdi's parents, embraces them one after the other,
(25:18):
and asks for forgiveness, telling them quietly through her tears
that she had another family. Now, turning back to her parents,
Shanty took them each by the hand and led them
out of the house. That evening, Shanty Deviy returned to
(25:38):
Delhi with her mother and father, escorted by Gandhi's committee members.
None were in any doubt that the child they had
taken to Matterer was nothing less than the reincarnation of Lukdibai,
the young mother who had tragically died over a decade ago.
(26:04):
In April the following year, a nine year old Shanty
is taken back to Mattera by another group, this time
led by prominent journalist since Nihal Singh and the psychologist
doctor Indra sen Again, the girl's claims are put to
the test, with varying degrees of success. Both men returned
(26:25):
to Delhi convinced that her extraordinary claims were true. A
few weeks later, doctor Senne arranged for Shanty to undergo
a process of hypnotic regression where she is alleged to
have documented Lugdibai's journey from death to the moment of
her rebirth before later becoming the child Shanty Devi. Soon
(26:50):
after this session, doctor Sen learned something else. Although it
was true that Shanty had never been to Matterer, not
only had Lugdi's husband kedinat Chowby been to Delhi a
number of times. One of the places he visited most
frequently was a fabric shop directly opposite Shanty's family home,
(27:14):
and he had done so since Shanty was only a baby.
Either way, for the rest of her life, Shanty Devy,
who had become a highly qualified teacher, never wavered in
her belief that she had lived a previous life. She
would eventually die at the age of sixty one in
(27:36):
nineteen eighty seven, having never married out of respect for
her apparent former husband. This episode was written by Richard
mc lean Smith unexplained as an Avy Club Productions podcast
(27:57):
created by Richard mc lean Smith. All other elements of
the podcast, including the music, are also produced by me.
Richard mclin Smith unexplained the book and audiobook with stories
never before featured on the show, is now available to
buy worldwide. You can purchase from Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Waterstones,
(28:18):
and other bookstores. Please subscribe to and rate the show
wherever you get your podcasts, and feel free to get
in touch with any thoughts or ideas regarding the stories
you've heard on the show. Perhaps you have an explanation
of your own you'd like to share. You can find
out more at Unexplained podcast dot com and reach us
online through Twitter at Unexplained Pod and Facebook at Facebook
(28:43):
dot com. Forward Slash Unexplained podcast a
Hello, it's Richard mclin smith here. Unfortunately, due to a
slight bout of illness, I've not been able to get
this week's episode ready in time. The show will return
as per normal next week, but in the meantime, here's
an episode from the vaults. It starts back in the
nineteen twenties in Delhi, India, when three year old Shanty
(00:21):
Devi becomes convinced she's lived another life before her parents
assume it's just a childish game. Today, many consider her
story to be nothing less than absolute proof of reincarnation.
This is unexplained Season three episode ten, Here is Always
(00:44):
Somewhere Else. On January eighteenth, nineteen oh two, in the
Indian town of Mattaa, ninety miles southeast of Delhi, a
young couple Yagte and chatterbudge By, celebrate the birth of
(01:08):
a baby girl. Ten years later, the child, whom they
named Lugdi, is given up for marriage to a local
shopkeeper named keddinat Chowbie. After many years of marriage, Lugdi
fell pregnant, but was devastated to learn only a week
before she was due to give birth that the baby
(01:30):
had died. Some years later, by then twenty three, Lugdi
was overjoyed to discover she was pregnant once more, but
again there were complications. Fearing for his wife and unborn child,
Kdinat rushed them to the much better equipped hospital in
(01:51):
the city of Agra, thirty miles away. It was there
the next day, on September twenty fifth, nineteen twenty five,
that Lugdi gave birth to a healthy baby boy named Nabonite.
For Lugdi, however, the pregnancy had taken a hefty toll.
(02:13):
She would not live to see the child she had
brought into the world, dying nine days later. On the
morning of October fourth, five years later, and roughly six
hundred miles to the south, in the coastal town of Dandy,
(02:33):
a gentle looking man, modestly dressed in a pristine white
doughty and shawl, reaches down into the wet mud at
his feet, lifting a handful of it into the air.
He turns to the fifty thousand strong crowd of men
and women who have waited twenty six days for this
very moment, and declared, with this, I am shaking the
(02:57):
foundations of the British Empire. Next, the man filtered salt
granules from the mud and placed them in a pot
of boiling sea water. He watched with a smile as
the water slowly began to evaporate, liberating the salt from
its bonds, until with the water having all but vanished,
(03:19):
the salt was all that remained at the bottom of
the pan. The man was Mahandas Karamchant Gandhi, perhaps better
known as Mahatma Gandhi. With this powerful, peaceful gesture, Gandhi,
who had walked for twenty six days to get to
the coast, had shone a light on a greedy and
(03:41):
restrictive salt tax that had been imposed on the people
of India by British colonial powers. As with all empires,
there comes a time when the ruling powers are no
longer able to reconcile the myth of their great nation
with the truth of what it is to sustain it.
(04:02):
And so it would prove with Great Britons. With Gandhi's
iconic Salt March proving an irresistible catalyst, opposition to British
rule among both the local Indian population and the British
public intensified. Though at the time the empire's Viceroy Lord Irwin,
(04:25):
equipped that Gandhi's Salt campaign would be unlikely to keep
him up all night. Only seventeen years later, the Indian
nation achieved independence. After the Salt March, Gandhi's position as
a leading statesman and as the head of the Indian
independence movement had been thoroughly secured. As such, his trust
(04:49):
and judgment was often sought on a number of wide
ranging events and incidences, provided they were of sufficient importance.
None were quite as strange, perhaps as that which was
presented to him in nineteen thirty five regarding a peculiar
case of a young girl who claimed to have already
(05:10):
died ten years previously. You're listening to Unexplained, and I'm
Richard McLean Smith. Born in December nineteen twenty six, Shanty
Devy rarely cried as a baby, despite living in the
(05:33):
intense bustle of inner city Delhi. Having grown into a
shy and quiet toddler, it was all the more surprising
when the young girl became suddenly agitated one afternoon. This
wasn't her home, she complained to her perplexed mother. My
house was much bigger, she said. Shanty's mother naturally assuming
(05:58):
her daughter to be playing a game, did her best
to ignore her strange proclamations. It was far harder, however,
for her to ignore Shanty's insistence that she wasn't her
mother at all. Her real mother lived in the city
of Mattra, over ninety miles away, as did her husband
and sisters. For the next year, Shanty continued to talk
(06:23):
about another life, claiming that her name was in fact Lugdi.
One evening, at the dinner table, after her mother had
dished out the food, Shanty screwed up her face and
pushed her plate away. It isn't right to eat animals,
she said, I won't do it. The now four year
(06:44):
old Shanty went on to explain that she and her
husband only ate sat for food, a group of foods
that pertained to the Hindu modes of existence, consisting only
of meat free, energy enriching foods. Only Shanty's parents weren't Hindus,
nor could they fathom how a four year old child
(07:06):
could have learnt such a thing. A few years later,
with Shanty showing no sign of dropping the charade, she
explained blankly one morning that she had died giving birth
to a child, and that she wanted to see her
husband again. But when Shanty's mother asked who he was,
(07:27):
she would say only that when she knew him, he
sold fabrics and that he owned a shop near the
Duar Kadije temple in Matra. Though Shanty's parents try to
reassure themselves that their daughter's behavior is only a phase,
it is hard not to be concerned. It is said
(07:47):
in the Vedic Scriptures, the most sacred text of Hinduism,
that any child who could remember a past life was
destined to die young. Growing increasingly unsettled, Shanty's parents forbade
her from talking any more about her past life, but
Shanty never lost sight of her dream to return to
(08:10):
her long lost family in Matura. It was some time
in nineteen thirty five that Babu Bhushan Chand first heard
about Shanty's strange obsession. Chand was a teacher at Shanty's
(08:34):
school in the Daria Gang district of Delhi. Being a
relative also, he couldn't help but be intrigued. After overhearing
the now eight year old girl telling yet another friend
how she needed to find a way to get to
Matura to visit her husband, determined to see if Shanty
was telling the truth. Chand demanded that she tell him
(08:57):
the name of her husband. She refused. Chand offered to
take her to matter himself if she would only give
him his name. The young girl hesitated, explaining that it
would not be correct to speak his name, but finally relented.
She gestured for Chand to bend down and whispered it
(09:20):
into his ear, ca denat Choubi, but that wasn't all.
She knew his address as well. Before rushing off to
visit the man, Chand suggested they write him a letter
first to see if he can help verify her claims. Together,
(09:42):
they composed it, putting in everything that Shanty had said
that she was once married to a man named Choubi
who had owned a fabric shop near the Dewa Kadish
temple in Mattera. She added also that one of their
homes was painted yellow and that she believed her name
to be Lugdi. After posting the letter, Chand waited for
(10:06):
almost two weeks before finally receiving a reply. I did
have a wife who died named Lugdi, it said, and
I have a shop very close to the Duwa Kadish
temple and my name is Kennedat Chaubi in matterra Kedanat
(10:27):
had barely slept since first receiving Shanty's letter. Having sent
his reply to chand he contacted a cousin, Pandit Kanjamaal,
who lived in Delhi, and asked him to visit Shanty
and her parents on his behalf A few days later,
an astounded Pandit sat with the young girl and her
(10:48):
parents as she detailed the layout and location of the
house that Lugdi used to live in with his cousin,
also describing perfectly the streets close to it that she
had worn many times before. When she asked about the
health of her son, a stunned Pandit can only mutter
(11:08):
that he is doing well. When Kadinat's cousin bids farewell
to Shanty later that evening, it is with the absolute
conviction that he had just spoken to Kdenat's deceased wife.
The following day, he traveled to his cousin's home to
deliver the incredible news. It was only a few days later,
(11:36):
on November twelfth, that Pandit returned to Shanty's home along
with Kdinat and his new wife, as well as ten
year old Nabonite, the son that Lugti had died after
giving birth to. When they arrived, Shanty's mother, who was
clearly troubled by the situation, was there to greet them
(11:57):
at the door, explained that Shanty had not yet returned
from school, but invited them inside, none the less to
sit and wait for her. When the young girl returned
home half an hour later, it had been decided that
they would try and catch her out, having been informed
that more people had come to speak to her about
(12:19):
her supposed past life. Shanty was led into the living
room and introduced to a few of the guests, including Kadenat,
who was introduced as an older brother of Lugdi's, but
Shanty was confused. No, she said, that is my husband.
(12:39):
Walking straight up to him, she bowed her head and
stood by his side, as was customary for the time.
Kdinat could only stare at, dumbstruck at the strangely confident
little girl stood beside him. A moment later, Nabonite was
shown into the room. At the sight of the young boy,
(13:03):
Shanty's eyes widened and began to well up. She rushed
toward him and hugged him tightly. My son, she cried,
you were my son. Immediately, Shanty turned to her mother
and asked her for all her toys to be brought
for the young boy, but she refused as she tried
(13:25):
to comprehend what exactly was happening before her. Shanty eventually
gathered them up herself and offered them to the boy. Later,
Shanty's parents watched their daughter leave the house with the
chowbees with the creeping sensation that maybe she hadn't been
making everything up after all. That afternoon, having taken a
(13:50):
trip round the city with Kedanat's family, it was said
that Shanty held on to Nabonite's hand the entire time.
That evening, the two families gathered again to talk, but
something was ailing the young girl. She couldn't stop staring
at the jewelry on the arm of Kadenat's wife. It
(14:11):
was as if she recognized it. You promised you would
never marry again, she said, turning suddenly to Kdenat. The
man's eyes turned to the floor. Sensing the awkward shift
in the mood, Shanty's father asked his daughter to talk
more about the house she had apparently lived in when
(14:32):
she was lookedy. The young girl's eyes lit up as
she recounted the place in great detail, including how she
loved to bathe and relax by the well located in
the middle of a grand courtyard in the center of
the property. Her apparent recollections drawing tears from Kadenat's eyes
(14:52):
at the memories. It was late evening when the Chowbee
family left the house, though Shanty was inconsolable. Together, they
promised to make arrangements to meet again. It wasn't long
(15:14):
before Shanti's extraordinary story reached the media and in turn,
Mahatma Gandhi. It has been alleged that Gandhi's interest in
the story stemmed as much from political motives as it
did from personal interest, being as it was an apparent
vindication of the Hindu belief system. Nevertheless, his involvement was
(15:36):
hugely significant. Having now met Kdinat, Shanty had only grown
more determined to visit her apparent former home in Mattera,
But every reference to her past life as Lugdi was
just one more break in the hearts of Shanty's parents,
who feared their daughter might be lost for ever if
(15:57):
they agreed to let her go. It was Gandhy who
finally convinced them to let whatever her destiny might be
play out. Such was the farraw surrounding the story. Gandhi
also organized for a committee of journalists and government ministers
to accompany the young girl to Matter to determine for
(16:17):
themselves whether her claims were true or not. And so
it was that on November twenty fourth, Shanty and her
family boarded a train to Matterra, escorted by Gandhy's committee,
which included among them, the respected Member of Parliament Deshpandu Goupta.
(16:39):
That cool morning, as the train trundled through a green
and dusty countryside and a warm, pink haze settled across
the land, a quiet eight year old girl gazed absent
mindedly out of the window, dreaming of a former life.
(17:02):
Having arrived at Mattera station. As the committee disembark, a
crowd of thousands are there to greet them, all desperate
to see the miracle child. As Shanty is led from
the train, the crowd surges forward and a middle aged
man steps into her path. Shanty stops after taking a
(17:23):
moment to look up at the man. She bows down
and touches his feet. Before the man can say anything,
Shanty is already back up. Baboo Ramchaubi. She says hello.
The man cracks a wide smile and turning back to
the crowd, hushes them away to give the child and
(17:44):
the committee room to get through. As they push on
to the front of the station, one of the committee
asks Shanty who the man is, to which she replies,
he is my husband's brother. Outside, the girl is led
into a tanger, a small horse and cart, where she
is joined by Dshbandu Gupta and another committee member, with
(18:09):
the others arranging to follow on behind. Much to Gupta's surprise, Shanty,
who has never been to matter before, wastes no time
in instructing the driver on where to go, telling him
to look out for a yellow house. As they make
their way through the streets, Shanty points out all the
(18:31):
places she remembers and the ones that have changed since
Lugdi's time, all of which the astonished driver confirms to
be true. Turning into one street flanked by a large,
colorful building fronted by a series of delicate arches, Shanty
points out the duwak at each temple, and on the
(18:53):
other side of the street the shop where her husband worked.
Reaching a crossroads. A short time later, she asks the
driver to pull over. But I don't understand, she says,
as she steps down from the cart. It's supposed to
be yellow. The committee members exchange concerned glances as they
(19:16):
follow the young girl across the road toward a decidedly
white house. Though the colour is wrong, the large crowd
of people gathered outside suggests they have indeed come to
the right place. Shanty points out two men standing by
the entrance as her brother and the brother of her
(19:36):
father in law, who both greet her warmly before leading
her inside. Moving from room to room, Shanty amazes everyone
with her apparent recollection of how the house had been
set up when Lugdi had lived there. However, one committee
member is unconvinced. After all, wasn't the house of her
(20:00):
to be yellow, but it was explained one of the
new residents it had been painted over after Lugdi had
died that afternoon. As the crowds continue to grow, the
(20:21):
eight year old girl from Delhi is hoisted onto the
shoulders of one of the committee members before effortlessly guiding
them all to the next property. It is the last
place that Lugdi had lived and Cadenat's current home. She
is especially pleased to find him waiting there for her
when she arrives. After being led inside once again, Shanty
(20:46):
seems able to recall the layout of the house, but
when she moved into the courtyard. Something is wrong the well,
says one of the committee members. You said there was
a well here that used to bathe beside, but there
is not. Without uttering a word, Kedanat walks into the
(21:08):
middle of the square and pulls up a large paving slab,
inviting the committee members to have a look underneath. It
was the well the family had paved over it only
a few years ago. Later, having moved up to one
of the bedrooms on the second floor, Shanty lets out
(21:29):
a short gasp. I remember something, she exclaims, turning to
the group under the floor. I hid a money box
full of savings for a special occasion just there, she says,
pointing to the floor. One of the group pushes at
the spot and finds the floorboard to be loose. He
(21:51):
pulls it up and, to the amazement of all, reveals
a small rusted tin nestled in the space below it.
The tin was, however, the girl, disappointed, turns to Kdenat,
who can only apologize he had found it some time
after Lugdi had died and spent the money on himself.
(22:16):
Satisfied they had seen enough for the day, Shanty made
one more request that they visit the River Yamuna, where
as Lugdi, she had apparently also enjoyed spending lots of
her time. After a short ride to the river, Shanty's parents,
who had endured so much, already watched with a strange
(22:37):
uncertainty as their young daughter gazed out across the water.
Suddenly she was running fast along the bank toward a
house in the distance. As the committee members tried desperately
to keep up, they were relieved to see Shanty stopping
outside another home, where a small crowd of people had
(22:58):
gathered to meet her. It was Lugdi's parents house, and
there standing at the front where Yagti and chatterboush by
Lukedi's parents themselves. Shanty already had tears in her eyes
as she approached the elderly couple. When her parents arrived
(23:20):
moments later, Yagti invited them into the house. As the
congregation of committee members and Lugdi's family sat and talked,
the young girl's parents can only watch with increasing dread
as their daughter, now sitting in Yagti's lap, continued to
(23:43):
amaze everyone with her supposed recollections of her life as Lugdi.
But although Shanty seems elated to be with her old
family again, she is equally struck by a deep melancholy.
Turning to Lukedie's mother, she asks, why did he not
keep bringing me flowers like you promised? Just like with Kedanat,
(24:08):
Yakti can only apologize, holding the girl tighter in her
arms as she wipes their tears away. Then comes the
moment that Shanty's mother had been most dreading. It was
clear that a decision had to be made. Both Lukdi's
family and the Chowbees were far more wealthy than Shanty's parents,
(24:32):
not to mention of a higher caste, and if it
was true that this place really was her home, would
it be wrong to deny her the opportunity to live here?
Yakti suggests the only fair thing to do is to
ask Shanty herself what she wants. Shanty's mother reluctantly agrees,
(24:55):
taking her daughter by the hand and trying not to
cry as she asks her the devastating question. All in
the room are silent as they watched the little girl
think on her decision. Then, after a moment's pause, she
turns to Luhdi's parents, embraces them one after the other,
(25:18):
and asks for forgiveness, telling them quietly through her tears
that she had another family. Now, turning back to her parents,
Shanty took them each by the hand and led them
out of the house. That evening, Shanty Deviy returned to
(25:38):
Delhi with her mother and father, escorted by Gandhi's committee members.
None were in any doubt that the child they had
taken to Matterer was nothing less than the reincarnation of Lukdibai,
the young mother who had tragically died over a decade ago.
(26:04):
In April the following year, a nine year old Shanty
is taken back to Mattera by another group, this time
led by prominent journalist since Nihal Singh and the psychologist
doctor Indra sen Again, the girl's claims are put to
the test, with varying degrees of success. Both men returned
(26:25):
to Delhi convinced that her extraordinary claims were true. A
few weeks later, doctor Senne arranged for Shanty to undergo
a process of hypnotic regression where she is alleged to
have documented Lugdibai's journey from death to the moment of
her rebirth before later becoming the child Shanty Devi. Soon
(26:50):
after this session, doctor Sen learned something else. Although it
was true that Shanty had never been to Matterer, not
only had Lugdi's husband kedinat Chowby been to Delhi a
number of times. One of the places he visited most
frequently was a fabric shop directly opposite Shanty's family home,
(27:14):
and he had done so since Shanty was only a baby.
Either way, for the rest of her life, Shanty Devy,
who had become a highly qualified teacher, never wavered in
her belief that she had lived a previous life. She
would eventually die at the age of sixty one in
(27:36):
nineteen eighty seven, having never married out of respect for
her apparent former husband. This episode was written by Richard
mc lean Smith unexplained as an Avy Club Productions podcast
(27:57):
created by Richard mc lean Smith. All other elements of
the podcast, including the music, are also produced by me.
Richard mclin Smith unexplained the book and audiobook with stories
never before featured on the show, is now available to
buy worldwide. You can purchase from Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Waterstones,
(28:18):
and other bookstores. Please subscribe to and rate the show
wherever you get your podcasts, and feel free to get
in touch with any thoughts or ideas regarding the stories
you've heard on the show. Perhaps you have an explanation
of your own you'd like to share. You can find
out more at Unexplained podcast dot com and reach us
online through Twitter at Unexplained Pod and Facebook at Facebook
(28:43):
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