August 11, 2025 • 25 mins
Let's be honest...stuff like "personal branding" and "networking" can feel so cringey. But this kind of work - building relationships, putting yourself out there, making sure people know what you do - isn't optional anymore.
This week, we're tackling the awkward space between wanting recognition and not wanting to feel like you're constantly selling yourself. We explore why 70% of Australian jobs happen through the "hidden job market" and how making your "invisible work" visible is key to career growth without the cringe factor.
From the difference between visible work (what's in your job description) and invisible work (the relationships you build and unique perspective you bring) to navigating LinkedIn's evolution from professional networking to... whatever it is now. We unpack how to do it in a way that feels like you - not like you're selling yourself - plus practical ways to start showing up without feeling like a walking LinkedIn post.
What you'll learn:
- Why "idea promotion" feels so much better than self-promotion (and gets better results)
- The low-effort, high-impact strategies to start building visibility this week
- How to use LinkedIn authentically without becoming one of those people with the em-dashes
- Why commenting meaningfully beats posting your own content when you're starting out
- The art of casual networking that doesn't feel like networking at all
- How to reconnect with former colleagues without it being weird
Our BIZ hosts are Lisa Lie - a former Head of People & Culture and Organisational Coach - and Mamamia’s Em Vernem.
Learna is Lisa’s microlearning app for practical people skills at work. Expert-led lessons to build confidence, solve challenges, and work smarter - in under 7 minutes. Get it on Apple or Google Play.
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SENIOR PRODUCER: Sophie Campbell
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to a Mom with Me podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hello, and welcome to bid your Work Life Sorted. I'm
m Vernon and.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I'm Leasally and I can't wait to get into this
topic today because I've been on a bit of a
journey with it myself. Today I was talking about stuff
like personal branding and networking, and.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I know it can feel so cringey.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
It's kind of that awkward space between wanting to be
known for something and not wanting to feel like you're
selling yourself.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
All the time.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
But this kind of work, the building relationship stuff, the
putting yourself out there, making sure people actually know what
you do, it's really not optionally anymore.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, I struggle with this so much, and I feel
like it's something that people are always surprised with that
I struggle with because my whole job is being like
front of camera, having my voice out there. And still
like every time I have to do a post about
like my job or something and talk yourself up, I
do get very Oh my god, this is so cringe
everyone talking about me behind their back. But we are
(01:07):
gonna later, will I've just got a lot of questions.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Oh, I've got a lot of questions to you and
how you feel about it too, But we are going.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
To show you how to actually build your personal brand
and show up for yourself still sounding like yourself essentially.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, talk about what holds people back, because while I
can talk about it now, it was only a year
ago that I was really battling with it. How to
make it feel less sick. Yeah, and also a few
small ways to start without that whole self promo kind
of energy going with it.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Can't wait.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So we actually ask some people how they feel with
personal branding, and this is what a few of them
had to say. Every time I have to talk up
all the great things I'm doing in a performance review,
I find it painfully awkward.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
My co worker got promoted and I literally trained him,
but like he's always talking about his work, I've.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Been managing three major projects and my boss still doesn't
know what I do. So clearly I'm not the only
one struggling with this. But the good news is is
that there are some practical steps you can take to
actually get better at this.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
So I'm going to talk about why it matters, because
if you want a promotion, like a new role, or
even a career pivot, anything into something different. People need
to know what you're good at, what you're working on,
what you care about, what you're learning something about you.
The first time they're hearing about you shouldn't be when
you're applying for a job or trying to do something new.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
See, that's something that I feel like for me personally,
while I'm working, I just assume that people know these
things about me, and I feel like, if I say
it out loud, I'm so scared of sounding egotistical. You're
probably right, like people have no idea unless you actually
say it.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
We think that people spend a lot of time thinking
about us, and they actually don't.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
We've talked about this so many times, like no one's
thinking about you as well, you're working about yourself.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, And then we also assume that people can see it.
So many assumptions, right, We assume people see what we're
doing all the time, like I'm doing good work, Someone's
going to notice and my work will speak for itself,
or you know, I'll just get there eventually and it
will happen. But the reality is is that they're not
really thinking about you as much as you are, and
everyone's busy, like most of our work happens in silos
or slack or just focusing what we have to do
(03:09):
that week.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
So if you don't talk.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
About it, it kind of disappears. And we've touched on
this in another episode about reputation. Yeah, this is more
about just kind of building your reputation in a way
that you want to be known.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, it's still so hard though, and I think if
you don't also talk about yourself and constantly remind people
of why you're here at that company, firstly, you could
miss so many opportunities, but also the company could miss
opportunities from not leaning onto you for things that you're
actually good at.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
I almost will classify it now as like there's visible
work and there's invisible work. So like the visible work
is like whatever's in your position description like m. You
come to work and you do X, y Z, and
that's what you do. But there's also how you go
about it, and that's a lot of that is the
invisible work. So for example, like we're here and we're
recording a podcast together, right.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
That is what we do.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
But the invisible work is us building a relationship, understanding
what each other's about and our experiences and things and
that may what we do so much more rich.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, and so much more interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
That is so true. So is it more like trying
to make the invisible work visible?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah? Wow, Yeah, that's a great way of saying it.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
And so often we don't invest in the invisible work
because we're like, oh, that feels like a Sunday thing,
or I'm not really looking for a job right now,
so I don't really need to do that, yeah, Or
I mean it feels like it's taking away from that
one deliverable I have to do, so it can wait.
But I promise you will make your job easier in
the long run. Do the invisible work, do.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
The invisible work, and then say it out loud.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
And then say it out loud and you're right like
the cringe factor.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I mean, I've been there.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
I mean twelve months ago, I would have said I
am not touching personal brand. I don't want anything to
do with it. I set out to launch a product,
it's nothing to do with me, etc. And then I
started to realize, I'm like, actually, people do want to
hear what I'm up to. I don't want to hear
from me, not in a braggy way, like in a
humble here's some stuff that I've been working on kind
(05:01):
of way.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
I also feel like, and it's something that I've come
across recently that I do think there is a bias
with women founders versus men founders. Like there's so many
women CEOs and founders where I feel like they feel
the need to attach their personal brand to their company,
and it's like we crave that for them because it's
(05:22):
so rare to see a woman in the highest position,
So we want to know, was she like breastfeeding while
she was like signing off emails, was she like picking
up kids from school while she was also talking about
her like manager position to employees, And it's like we
crave knowing that she's going above and beyond just to
make this company, and we don't do the same for
a man. There are so many massive companies where I
(05:44):
like can't even name a man who's the top of
the chain. And with all these companies I've been founded
by women or CEOs, I know everything about them.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Dad, I was so interested, right, And I think a
lot of that comes from past experience with going, oh,
you can't have it all, and you can't do that,
like you're either a mother, or you're a worker or
this or that. It's all operates in silos. So I
think that's where a lot of the interest comes from.
And it's not even necessarily the personal life stuff. It's
more about how you think about that and why you
did it, what you're doing there. So I basically went
(06:15):
from twelve months ago going not touching that with a
ten foot Bardge pole to now every day on LinkedIn
and turning up and it's like, dear Diary, here's the
thought I had today, and you can get there. And
I feel totally comfortable that now. So I want to
share that with people. Oh yes, I think because some
people start to lean into it when they go, oh,
I need a new job now, so I probably need
to like network and do those kind of things. But
(06:37):
people can miss out of opportunities not because they're not capable,
but because they're not top of mind.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So some of this stuff.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Around personal brand and networking is be top of mine
for the opportunity and be visible, not about being loud,
not about self promotion, but doing it in a way
that's really true to you. So something happened to me
last week where someone came up to me and they said,
so those videos you've been posting.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I was like, oh, no, I don't speak about this
out loud.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
No, no, no, no one I know sees them right comment
on the video.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Surely surely this.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Is a guy I used to work with, and he
said to me, I really like them because they're actually you.
I'm like, well, who did you think they were going
to be. He's like, oh, I feel like a lot
of people put on personas and like LinkedIn people into Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Oh yeah, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
He's like, but that is like legitimately you and how
you speak, like, okay, good, so people aren't judging you as.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Hard as you think they are.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yeah right, some people are actually just in your corner going, hey,
that's pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
How can I do some of that?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Oh when it comes to actually posting on LinkedIn, because
I feel like LinkedIn has changed kind of how it's
being perceived.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
As it's evolved.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Like I remember when it first started, everyone was like, oh,
another social media app, and that's when I got on LinkedIn,
and that's exactly how it got scattered for this role,
and I've talked about that on the podcast before, and
then it changed into something like really cool, like oh,
this is a social media app that's actually helping your
career and could like advance your career and you could
make more money off of it. And then it turned
into like more kind of Instagram Tiktoki, which became kind
(08:05):
of like shall we offfee, where you're like, Okay, here's
everything I've done, Here's how I'm better then you. Here
are all my achievements. Look how well I'm doing. Yes,
And now it's kind of become like a bit of
both where it's like really hard to find authentic people
on LinkedIn, I feel and I feel like that's the
algorithm trying to catch up with what it wants LinkedIn
to be. Yes, and my feed is just a full
(08:27):
mix of genuine people who are giving genuine advice and
sharing like their successes and not only sharing their successes
but also how they got there to that stage. And
then people who are just like literally you can see
they've just typed in the prompt and chat gpt and
they poppied and pasted it and they've got two thousand
LinkedIn followers from it. So many dashes, so many m dashes,
(08:47):
and it really sucks. So I love the m dash
so much and now I've just avoided at all costs.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Yes, So this is why people get put off exactly
what you're describing, right, because they can't see what they
want to be and that like there's not that authenticity
coming through. I mean, there are a couple of really
great people that I follow and I love getting their
content and things like that. You go, so what should
I share and what's relevant there?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And how should I do that?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
And so you get confused between am I trying to
tell people how to get ninety leads in ninety days?
Like you know that kind of like spam that exists
on there? Or am I sharing too much? That doesn't
feel very like worky? What do I do?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Am I just posting for the sake of post?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
So then you do nothing.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yeah, the push comes to the shop when you go,
actually I feel like pivoting my career into this space
or I want to actually go for that job, et cetera.
And no one knows who you are, and I think
it's really important. We'll get into this later. There is
a stat going around that something like seventy percent of
the jobs in Australia are taken on the like the
hidden job market, and what that means is that if
you and I are in each other's network and I'm
(09:47):
running this business and I have a social media role
coming up, I'll be like, oh, I know someone who'd
be good for that.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I'm going to reach out to them exactly what happened
to you on LinkedIn?
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Right?
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah, why do I even need to bother advertising?
Speaker 3 (09:59):
So that's a wild stat right, seventy percent of jobs
are happening through the hidden job market? Wow, not advertised.
So this is why we need to start talking about ourselves. Yeah,
you want to grow, you want to shift, and you
want to like lead people and get them seeing it.
So not in this showy way, just in a clear,
consistent way, and you can do it in a way
that sounds like you two.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Okay, how do I do this with my first step?
Speaker 1 (10:24):
So we'll get into that.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Okay, I think first let's talk about the cringe, because
that's the.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Biggest part you get over first.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
If we don't get over the cringe, then we can't
get to the steps because you're going to ignore my steps.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
We're going to work through the cringe first.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Okay, let's work through the cringe.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Go together, So I reckon it's worth touching on my
personal experience with this, which I like alluded to earlier.
Right when I launched a learner, I wanted nothing to
do with personal brand I thought it was so fake.
I thought it was nothing to do with the product
that I was doing. I thought it wasn't important.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I was compacting like you. I was like, what is
this stuff out here? And how does it actually have
an impact?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
And seeing the linked influencers, you know, like, I don't
want to be that.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
No. The thing that jarred with me the most, and
I think that's where people feel a lot of ick
is the self promotion part. It's like, look at me,
here's what I've done, Here's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
So it was real hard.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
No, So this idea of personal branding, I equated it
with bragging, right yeah, And so of course I'm gonna
feel thick about it, right like a lot of people do.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, I don't want to brag.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
What changed for me is someone said to me, it's
not about self promotion, it's about idea promotion. And you
have ideas you want to share, right, Like you have
ideas around why you wanted to create Learner and what
your experience has been in certain levels and your experience
at work, and you're.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Really passionate about that.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I can see that when we talk, like yeah, So
that whole mental reset of like, this is idea promotion
not self promotion gave me that first step to go, Okay,
I'm going to start dabbling now and I'm going to
share a couple of ideas I have that aren't about
me for about some of my experiences and some of
the things I've done.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
And then how did that go?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Well?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
To start with, I'm like, I would post something, tell
everyone I knew to like it, so I had some
kind of validation, and then I'd be like, Okay, nothing
bad happened, I'm still alive.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Okay, I'm still live. I'm still ticking. Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
And then people started reaching out to me to like
want to have conversations about this kind of thing and
started expanding on it. And I built this really great
network of people around me that work in the people
culture work space that I can now riff ideas with.
I have actual like Instagram and LinkedIn friends that I've
now met in real.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Life that we're riff with. Yeah in the MySpace days. Yeah,
And I.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Think the good thing about LinkedIn is that no one
goes on and shit cans each other like. It's quite
a polite platform. Yeah, so it's a pretty safe place
to start. When I shifted into like sharing my ideas,
like that was the real click moment, and I just
started slowly building from there and it became you know what,
I care about what I'm learning as well. That's not
(13:03):
self promotion because we're all a work in progress, and
it made people want to connect with me and talk
to me a bit more and me with them.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Two. There's the only win win in that.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
That is really interesting because I think what you're saying is,
like your end goal for LinkedIn is so different to
what I assumed everyone else's LinkedIn and goal was, and
yours is like to develop those connections, to connect with
like minded people and see how the community can lift
your career and vice versa. Yeah, Whereas like I would
go into LinkedIn and be like, oh, they just want
(13:34):
twenty thousand likes and comments and people to like affirm
that they're doing a really really good job. And that
for me was I don't ever want to do that.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
No, No, I mean, look, let's be honest, we all
want a little bit of validation. If we're going to
throw something out there.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Like's not only validation award, I got this promotion, I.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Don't like it, and we'll go from there and like, Okay,
it doesn't feel as ick now. But if you started
sharing something them around. Hey, you've been working on this
new podcast, and here's some things we've noticed, and here's
some trends. Does anyone have any ideas around what they've seen,
et cetera. And you invite people into the conversation. Yeah,
that's when it starts to feel a bit more collaborative
and a bit more connection base. Rather than just about me,
(14:13):
it's about everyone else as well. Yeah, I love that idea,
So a bit of a reset. Just remember it's not
about selling yourself like you're just going to let people
in a bit building network because you never know where
an opportunity can come from. If you're visible and people
know what you care about, then they're going to be like, oh,
I should have a chat to m about that. She
might know someone or have seen something recently to be interesting.
(14:33):
And it works like that.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Okay, I think I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
So you were over the eg, Yeah, I'm over the egg.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, I think you just cemented that not every LinkedIn
person is the same.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
No, they're actually real, normal people, and do you know
what some of them is so funny.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I'll give you a list of great people to follow.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
The thing I think because I started and so many
people started on LinkedIn in its prime, which was like
probably I want to say, twenty sixteen, seventeen eighteen, and
then it just also became about building connections and seeing
how many connections you have. So I have connections with
people who I will and like never speak to my life,
who are in just completely different industries, we have nothing
in common. And then I just think I need to
(15:12):
rejig my algorithm for me to teach it exactly what
I want from my LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah. Once you do that, I actually find it really
enjoyable to go on.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah that's what I want.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeah, I'm jealous.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Some good lulls you just like scroll your LinkedIn together.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
I'll give you all the people to follow you Like, okay,
now we're good. Now now taught, We've taught it what
it actually needs. So the initial cringe is like, is
really normal?
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Right?
Speaker 3 (15:32):
And I think it's the gap between like what you
value and how you think you're supposed to show up
versus how you actually are. Just be that person. Please,
don't get chat. I wt to write something for you.
Think about conversations you've had. This is where so many
of my posts come from a conversation I've had with someone.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Like I was talking to this leader the other day.
They said, X y Z, here's what I thought. What
do you guys think? And it all comes from there, right,
that's actually quite simple, super simple. I get inspiration everywhere.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
One of my biggest barriers was like I don't know
what to write about it, and I don't say and
what do I even stand for? Don't go there like,
let's not like spiral and go like this is like
full personal brand, Like what do I stand for? And
what are all the things? Just think about an experience
and what you've got to bring to the table, something
you've noticed recently, and.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Then you can just put a little bit of that
out there and get over the ick.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Okay, yeah, okay, So.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Let's say you're on board. Now you feel like you're on.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Board, I'm on board. I'm ready to start working on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah, you're going to show up a bit more.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
You're going to become a little bit more visible, or
do the invisible work become more visible.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I feel like I'm not ready to do a full
post just yet. I think I want to let people
know I'm on LinkedIn without actually saying yeah, you want
to contribute, Yeah, I want to contribute.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
That's okay. Contributing is really good, and that's like a
great first StEB. Here's a couple of.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Things that work for me at the start, and they
are all very like simple, small moves that didn't.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Feel gross, like talking to me or like don't freak out.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Honestly, it gives me like this visceral reaction thinking about
how I felt then and the cringe in my gut
when I post something and I feel like, see me
sick about it?
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And then move on and now you're.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
A legend post so good. If you're not following Lisa
on LinkedIn, you're doing something wrong. You're probably the only
person I'm following on LinkedIn that actually makes sense that
I'm following.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Oh good. I was in one of them. I was like, shit,
we bucket? Am I falling into that she's talking about?
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
So we're gonna like gradually build your visibility over time?
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, and I said this at the start.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
This is really important because no one sits in a
role for thirty years. You are going to have different
roles of your career, and that might be in the
same industry or it might be in a totally different industry. Altogether,
you got to start chipping away at that and working
on what that is and building those connections. So a
couple of low effort, high impact ways, which we like
these kind of things for someone is like comment on
(17:50):
a post, okay. So find a couple of people that
you like. You're like, Okay, this is kind of interesting.
I like what they're posting about. They're not trying to
sell me anything. Comment share your take two sentences, and
that gets it in and gets it visible with the author,
and you can start to feel okay with like posting.
So I don't just like stuff like share what you've
experienced on that, okay. I think something else you can
(18:11):
do is tell someone outside of your team what you're
working on, so you know, this week I'm working on X.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Because of why we talked.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
About this in an episode around just broadening your exposure.
Now what we're talking about here, we've dabbled in, like
the personal brand Linkediny kind of.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Space for work, but this is also about networking.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, because I also thought when I had like all
these randoms on my LinkedIn, I was like, oh, I
just need to find other people in media. I only
need to connect with people in MoMA, mea or other
media organizations. And then I feel like that's where you
get trapped.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yes, yeah, like you have your blinkers on almost like
people even do this in organizations and go, oh, it's
just about me and my team and these ten people
and that's all that matters. It's like, what about the
rest of the business and what you're working on and
understanding what they need because you might work with them
mono projects could be good to get to know them, relate, etc.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
We're just gonna make time for that kind of work.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah, be visible, pass something on. I think this is
really easy. You touched on this before. We all read books,
listen to podcasts, check out articles, etc. And go oh
that was actually helpful and text it to a friend
or send it to them on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I love doing that. Yeah, you're like, hey, this is
so cool. Just share it more broadly. Yeah, I saw
this thought was really cool.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
This is one of the things I did often actually
at the start, was like listen to podcasts and go
here's a couple of people I like following. Here's a
couple of podcasts I found that are really helpful in
this space. And people love that stuff because they're trying
to uncover what's interesting too.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Do a little bit of that. So just share on
It's not about you. It's just about something you've found
and you've learned recently, so that's helpful.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
It's not about what you stand for nothing.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
It's not about your personal brand.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
It's just about something you're interested in, which actually goes
a bit of a way in saying a bit about you.
Yeah yeah, and keep in touch with people who already
rate you. Okay, So what I mean by this is
like we all work at other jobs or have worked
in different industries with clients, etc.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Keep in touch with them. It's like, hey, what are
you working on? How's thing going? Just thought I touch base.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
You don't have to have a meeting, you don't have
to have a coffee, just send them a little message,
going great to see what you're working on, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
At the moment. Just keep doing that. Do I just
keep those connections alive.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Yeah. So for example, I met with someone Luke the
other day, who I used to work with about six
years ago, who works in the digital space, and we
just like riffed on ideas. He's like, I've been working
on this kind of thing, have you considered this? Like
I've been working on this, have you considered that?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Etc. So just a sharing of ideas that's so interesting.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
And now we're both very top of mind for each other.
So the other day I've referred someone on to him.
I said, oh, you might want to meet Luke and
work with him, and he did the same for me.
Neither of us asked for this, but we were both
very top of mind because we're keeping interested in what
each other was doing.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Oh that's really intriguing.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And like, remember they already rate you because they've worked
with you, so you've got credibility. And it's way more
comfortable having a casual chat with someone than an interview.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah that's so true.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Right, Like you're running this podcast m and you're interviewing me.
Isn't it better that we've had a few casual chats
along the way and you can't know what I'm boat
rather than be going Okay, ready to interview. What's your
first question is the first time we meet?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And I also feel like with interviews, when you go
down that strategy, yeah, someone always expects an outcome from it, Yes,
Whereas if you're just having a casual catch up and
you're just messaging someone to check in, Yeah, neither of
you are expecting anything out of that conversation, and good
if something does happen, but there's no pressure for something
to happen.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Yes, So I ask you, what's more cringe like connecting
with people networking like that? Maybe posting something you've liked
on LinkedIn or sitting through an interview with someone and
it's the first time you've met them and you're just
there to impress in that one single moment.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
I feel like it's the latter. So those casual chats
are really good. I mean it's often the first point
in time, Like if I'm talking to a girlfriend or
something and they're going, I'm not sure if I like
my job, I might look around like maybe I'll get
something else in six months. The first thing I always
say is like, start reaching out to people who used
to work with who you know, grab coffee, just check in,
just kind of build that momentum. Okay, it's a good
(22:04):
one for networking. And I think just build a tiny
like habit or commitment out of this for yourself, because
we can all get trapped and lost and busy in
the visible work. So you can go, what's one invisible
piece of work I could do this week, whether it's
like reach out for a casual chat, just drop them
a DM share one podcast I've listened to probably this
one and this definitely definitely this one, and put it
(22:28):
out there on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
You go, Okay, I feel good about it.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
I'm like kind of chipping away at it and I'm
keeping my work open.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Oh that is such good advice, like do the invisible work.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yeah, the invisible work is so important. The relationship staff,
I can't even tell you. I mean we chatted about
it in another episode on you Know, Understanding Different People.
I think relationships are so important, and we get so
busy at work and caught up that we forget to
spend the time with each other.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, okay, so it is now my favorite part of
the episode. Well, we've actually got a messages saying this
is everyone like a lot of people favorite part of
the episode.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
But making you listen to the well, making you listen.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
To the end, and also you just want something really
quick and easy. You're my kind of people. So it
is time for out, which is an acronym. It's not
just get out. It stands for one useful thing, Lisa,
this is your kind of brain chilt. Like you made
out and pretty much taken credit for the definition.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Of this is ours. This is ours.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
So I've got an out today. Mine is something you
said right at the beginning of the episode. People need
to know what you're good at, what you're working on,
what you care about, what you're learning. And I feel
like that phrase has just stuck in my head because
it's a catalyst of everything else. Like when I ask
myself these questions at work, it reminds me that, oh,
I should probably tell so and so I'm doing this.
(23:47):
Oh I should probably post on LinkedIn that I'm doing this.
And it also reminded me that, like what you said,
when making connections with other people outside of your network,
I feel like when you're constantly progressing in work and
building your career, you forget that you probably have a
whole list of skills that you haven't tapped into for years. Yeah,
And I think about this all the time because now
(24:09):
I'm an associate editor, so I do a lot of
writing and a lot of podcasting. I spend six years
working in audience development and social media. Wow, and I
forget that I have that skill set, and that's something
that I always try to bring up at work outside
of work. So I feel like when we were talking
about LinkedIn and what to post, I really want to
hone in on that skill set to just show my
(24:30):
connections that, Yes, podcasting and writing are my passion projects.
I love doing it, but I can also.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Do this, yes, yeah, And I mean also that particular
skill would make you better at what you do, right,
because it brings a totally different lens to it.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yeah, tell me more about that, Like, I want to
hear about it after this, and I want you to
start posting about it.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Would you work on my first LinkedIn post to get.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Write it together? Dear Diary. Here are my thoughts for today. Please.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
I hope it starts with dear Diary, because it feels
like that's what some people's post are commit to just
doing one little thing as well, and that is like
reach out to someone who's to work with, have a
casual chat yeah, or share a podcast or an article
you've seen this week. Simple, so simple, and it starts
to show people what you're interested in.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Oh my god, you can do it. Thank you so
much for listening to this week's episode of BIZ. For
extra content, you can always follow us on Instagram at
biz by Mama Mia. We also have a weekly newsletter
that I say all the time is very, very free.
It has all the information and takeaways you need from
this week. There's a link in our show notes for
you to access that. Bizz is produced by Sophie Campbell
(25:29):
with audio production by Leah Porge's and we'll be back
here on your podcast feed next week.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Bye bye.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Mamma Miya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
You're listening to a Mom with Me podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hello, and welcome to bid your Work Life Sorted. I'm
m Vernon and.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I'm Leasally and I can't wait to get into this
topic today because I've been on a bit of a
journey with it myself. Today I was talking about stuff
like personal branding and networking, and.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I know it can feel so cringey.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
It's kind of that awkward space between wanting to be
known for something and not wanting to feel like you're
selling yourself.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
All the time.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
But this kind of work, the building relationship stuff, the
putting yourself out there, making sure people actually know what
you do, it's really not optionally anymore.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, I struggle with this so much, and I feel
like it's something that people are always surprised with that
I struggle with because my whole job is being like
front of camera, having my voice out there. And still
like every time I have to do a post about
like my job or something and talk yourself up, I
do get very Oh my god, this is so cringe
everyone talking about me behind their back. But we are
(01:07):
gonna later, will I've just got a lot of questions.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Oh, I've got a lot of questions to you and
how you feel about it too, But we are going.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
To show you how to actually build your personal brand
and show up for yourself still sounding like yourself essentially.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, talk about what holds people back, because while I
can talk about it now, it was only a year
ago that I was really battling with it. How to
make it feel less sick. Yeah, and also a few
small ways to start without that whole self promo kind
of energy going with it.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Can't wait.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So we actually ask some people how they feel with
personal branding, and this is what a few of them
had to say. Every time I have to talk up
all the great things I'm doing in a performance review,
I find it painfully awkward.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
My co worker got promoted and I literally trained him,
but like he's always talking about his work, I've.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Been managing three major projects and my boss still doesn't
know what I do. So clearly I'm not the only
one struggling with this. But the good news is is
that there are some practical steps you can take to
actually get better at this.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
So I'm going to talk about why it matters, because
if you want a promotion, like a new role, or
even a career pivot, anything into something different. People need
to know what you're good at, what you're working on,
what you care about, what you're learning something about you.
The first time they're hearing about you shouldn't be when
you're applying for a job or trying to do something new.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
See, that's something that I feel like for me personally,
while I'm working, I just assume that people know these
things about me, and I feel like, if I say
it out loud, I'm so scared of sounding egotistical. You're
probably right, like people have no idea unless you actually
say it.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
We think that people spend a lot of time thinking
about us, and they actually don't.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
We've talked about this so many times, like no one's
thinking about you as well, you're working about yourself.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, And then we also assume that people can see it.
So many assumptions, right, We assume people see what we're
doing all the time, like I'm doing good work, Someone's
going to notice and my work will speak for itself,
or you know, I'll just get there eventually and it
will happen. But the reality is is that they're not
really thinking about you as much as you are, and
everyone's busy, like most of our work happens in silos
or slack or just focusing what we have to do
(03:09):
that week.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
So if you don't talk.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
About it, it kind of disappears. And we've touched on
this in another episode about reputation. Yeah, this is more
about just kind of building your reputation in a way
that you want to be known.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, it's still so hard though, and I think if
you don't also talk about yourself and constantly remind people
of why you're here at that company, firstly, you could
miss so many opportunities, but also the company could miss
opportunities from not leaning onto you for things that you're
actually good at.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
I almost will classify it now as like there's visible
work and there's invisible work. So like the visible work
is like whatever's in your position description like m. You
come to work and you do X, y Z, and
that's what you do. But there's also how you go
about it, and that's a lot of that is the
invisible work. So for example, like we're here and we're
recording a podcast together, right.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
That is what we do.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
But the invisible work is us building a relationship, understanding
what each other's about and our experiences and things and
that may what we do so much more rich.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, and so much more interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
That is so true. So is it more like trying
to make the invisible work visible?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah? Wow, Yeah, that's a great way of saying it.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
And so often we don't invest in the invisible work
because we're like, oh, that feels like a Sunday thing,
or I'm not really looking for a job right now,
so I don't really need to do that, yeah, Or
I mean it feels like it's taking away from that
one deliverable I have to do, so it can wait.
But I promise you will make your job easier in
the long run. Do the invisible work, do.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
The invisible work, and then say it out loud.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
And then say it out loud and you're right like
the cringe factor.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I mean, I've been there.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
I mean twelve months ago, I would have said I
am not touching personal brand. I don't want anything to
do with it. I set out to launch a product,
it's nothing to do with me, etc. And then I
started to realize, I'm like, actually, people do want to
hear what I'm up to. I don't want to hear
from me, not in a braggy way, like in a
humble here's some stuff that I've been working on kind
(05:01):
of way.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
I also feel like, and it's something that I've come
across recently that I do think there is a bias
with women founders versus men founders. Like there's so many
women CEOs and founders where I feel like they feel
the need to attach their personal brand to their company,
and it's like we crave that for them because it's
(05:22):
so rare to see a woman in the highest position,
So we want to know, was she like breastfeeding while
she was like signing off emails, was she like picking
up kids from school while she was also talking about
her like manager position to employees, And it's like we
crave knowing that she's going above and beyond just to
make this company, and we don't do the same for
a man. There are so many massive companies where I
(05:44):
like can't even name a man who's the top of
the chain. And with all these companies I've been founded
by women or CEOs, I know everything about them.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Dad, I was so interested, right, And I think a
lot of that comes from past experience with going, oh,
you can't have it all, and you can't do that,
like you're either a mother, or you're a worker or
this or that. It's all operates in silos. So I
think that's where a lot of the interest comes from.
And it's not even necessarily the personal life stuff. It's
more about how you think about that and why you
did it, what you're doing there. So I basically went
(06:15):
from twelve months ago going not touching that with a
ten foot Bardge pole to now every day on LinkedIn
and turning up and it's like, dear Diary, here's the
thought I had today, and you can get there. And
I feel totally comfortable that now. So I want to
share that with people. Oh yes, I think because some
people start to lean into it when they go, oh,
I need a new job now, so I probably need
to like network and do those kind of things. But
(06:37):
people can miss out of opportunities not because they're not capable,
but because they're not top of mind.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So some of this stuff.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Around personal brand and networking is be top of mine
for the opportunity and be visible, not about being loud,
not about self promotion, but doing it in a way
that's really true to you. So something happened to me
last week where someone came up to me and they said,
so those videos you've been posting.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I was like, oh, no, I don't speak about this
out loud.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
No, no, no, no one I know sees them right comment
on the video.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Surely surely this.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Is a guy I used to work with, and he
said to me, I really like them because they're actually you.
I'm like, well, who did you think they were going
to be. He's like, oh, I feel like a lot
of people put on personas and like LinkedIn people into Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Oh yeah, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
He's like, but that is like legitimately you and how
you speak, like, okay, good, so people aren't judging you as.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Hard as you think they are.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yeah right, some people are actually just in your corner going, hey,
that's pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
How can I do some of that?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Oh when it comes to actually posting on LinkedIn, because
I feel like LinkedIn has changed kind of how it's
being perceived.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
As it's evolved.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Like I remember when it first started, everyone was like, oh,
another social media app, and that's when I got on LinkedIn,
and that's exactly how it got scattered for this role,
and I've talked about that on the podcast before, and
then it changed into something like really cool, like oh,
this is a social media app that's actually helping your
career and could like advance your career and you could
make more money off of it. And then it turned
into like more kind of Instagram Tiktoki, which became kind
(08:05):
of like shall we offfee, where you're like, Okay, here's
everything I've done, Here's how I'm better then you. Here
are all my achievements. Look how well I'm doing. Yes,
And now it's kind of become like a bit of
both where it's like really hard to find authentic people
on LinkedIn, I feel and I feel like that's the
algorithm trying to catch up with what it wants LinkedIn
to be. Yes, and my feed is just a full
(08:27):
mix of genuine people who are giving genuine advice and
sharing like their successes and not only sharing their successes
but also how they got there to that stage. And
then people who are just like literally you can see
they've just typed in the prompt and chat gpt and
they poppied and pasted it and they've got two thousand
LinkedIn followers from it. So many dashes, so many m dashes,
(08:47):
and it really sucks. So I love the m dash
so much and now I've just avoided at all costs.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Yes, So this is why people get put off exactly
what you're describing, right, because they can't see what they
want to be and that like there's not that authenticity
coming through. I mean, there are a couple of really
great people that I follow and I love getting their
content and things like that. You go, so what should
I share and what's relevant there?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And how should I do that?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
And so you get confused between am I trying to
tell people how to get ninety leads in ninety days?
Like you know that kind of like spam that exists
on there? Or am I sharing too much? That doesn't
feel very like worky? What do I do?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Am I just posting for the sake of post?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
So then you do nothing.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yeah, the push comes to the shop when you go,
actually I feel like pivoting my career into this space
or I want to actually go for that job, et cetera.
And no one knows who you are, and I think
it's really important. We'll get into this later. There is
a stat going around that something like seventy percent of
the jobs in Australia are taken on the like the
hidden job market, and what that means is that if
you and I are in each other's network and I'm
(09:47):
running this business and I have a social media role
coming up, I'll be like, oh, I know someone who'd
be good for that.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I'm going to reach out to them exactly what happened
to you on LinkedIn?
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Right?
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah, why do I even need to bother advertising?
Speaker 3 (09:59):
So that's a wild stat right, seventy percent of jobs
are happening through the hidden job market? Wow, not advertised.
So this is why we need to start talking about ourselves. Yeah,
you want to grow, you want to shift, and you
want to like lead people and get them seeing it.
So not in this showy way, just in a clear,
consistent way, and you can do it in a way
that sounds like you two.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Okay, how do I do this with my first step?
Speaker 1 (10:24):
So we'll get into that.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Okay, I think first let's talk about the cringe, because
that's the.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Biggest part you get over first.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
If we don't get over the cringe, then we can't
get to the steps because you're going to ignore my steps.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
We're going to work through the cringe first.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Okay, let's work through the cringe.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Go together, So I reckon it's worth touching on my
personal experience with this, which I like alluded to earlier.
Right when I launched a learner, I wanted nothing to
do with personal brand I thought it was so fake.
I thought it was nothing to do with the product
that I was doing. I thought it wasn't important.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I was compacting like you. I was like, what is
this stuff out here? And how does it actually have
an impact?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
And seeing the linked influencers, you know, like, I don't
want to be that.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
No. The thing that jarred with me the most, and
I think that's where people feel a lot of ick
is the self promotion part. It's like, look at me,
here's what I've done, Here's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
So it was real hard.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
No, So this idea of personal branding, I equated it
with bragging, right yeah, And so of course I'm gonna
feel thick about it, right like a lot of people do.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, I don't want to brag.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
What changed for me is someone said to me, it's
not about self promotion, it's about idea promotion. And you
have ideas you want to share, right, Like you have
ideas around why you wanted to create Learner and what
your experience has been in certain levels and your experience
at work, and you're.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Really passionate about that.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I can see that when we talk, like yeah, So
that whole mental reset of like, this is idea promotion
not self promotion gave me that first step to go, Okay,
I'm going to start dabbling now and I'm going to
share a couple of ideas I have that aren't about
me for about some of my experiences and some of
the things I've done.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
And then how did that go?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Well?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
To start with, I'm like, I would post something, tell
everyone I knew to like it, so I had some
kind of validation, and then I'd be like, Okay, nothing
bad happened, I'm still alive.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Okay, I'm still live. I'm still ticking. Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
And then people started reaching out to me to like
want to have conversations about this kind of thing and
started expanding on it. And I built this really great
network of people around me that work in the people
culture work space that I can now riff ideas with.
I have actual like Instagram and LinkedIn friends that I've
now met in real.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Life that we're riff with. Yeah in the MySpace days. Yeah,
And I.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Think the good thing about LinkedIn is that no one
goes on and shit cans each other like. It's quite
a polite platform. Yeah, so it's a pretty safe place
to start. When I shifted into like sharing my ideas,
like that was the real click moment, and I just
started slowly building from there and it became you know what,
I care about what I'm learning as well. That's not
(13:03):
self promotion because we're all a work in progress, and
it made people want to connect with me and talk
to me a bit more and me with them.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Two. There's the only win win in that.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
That is really interesting because I think what you're saying is,
like your end goal for LinkedIn is so different to
what I assumed everyone else's LinkedIn and goal was, and
yours is like to develop those connections, to connect with
like minded people and see how the community can lift
your career and vice versa. Yeah, Whereas like I would
go into LinkedIn and be like, oh, they just want
(13:34):
twenty thousand likes and comments and people to like affirm
that they're doing a really really good job. And that
for me was I don't ever want to do that.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
No, No, I mean, look, let's be honest, we all
want a little bit of validation. If we're going to
throw something out there.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Like's not only validation award, I got this promotion, I.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Don't like it, and we'll go from there and like, Okay,
it doesn't feel as ick now. But if you started
sharing something them around. Hey, you've been working on this
new podcast, and here's some things we've noticed, and here's
some trends. Does anyone have any ideas around what they've seen,
et cetera. And you invite people into the conversation. Yeah,
that's when it starts to feel a bit more collaborative
and a bit more connection base. Rather than just about me,
(14:13):
it's about everyone else as well. Yeah, I love that idea,
So a bit of a reset. Just remember it's not
about selling yourself like you're just going to let people
in a bit building network because you never know where
an opportunity can come from. If you're visible and people
know what you care about, then they're going to be like, oh,
I should have a chat to m about that. She
might know someone or have seen something recently to be interesting.
(14:33):
And it works like that.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Okay, I think I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
So you were over the eg, Yeah, I'm over the egg.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, I think you just cemented that not every LinkedIn
person is the same.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
No, they're actually real, normal people, and do you know
what some of them is so funny.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I'll give you a list of great people to follow.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
The thing I think because I started and so many
people started on LinkedIn in its prime, which was like
probably I want to say, twenty sixteen, seventeen eighteen, and
then it just also became about building connections and seeing
how many connections you have. So I have connections with
people who I will and like never speak to my life,
who are in just completely different industries, we have nothing
in common. And then I just think I need to
(15:12):
rejig my algorithm for me to teach it exactly what
I want from my LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah. Once you do that, I actually find it really
enjoyable to go on.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah that's what I want.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeah, I'm jealous.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Some good lulls you just like scroll your LinkedIn together.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
I'll give you all the people to follow you Like, okay,
now we're good. Now now taught, We've taught it what
it actually needs. So the initial cringe is like, is
really normal?
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Right?
Speaker 3 (15:32):
And I think it's the gap between like what you
value and how you think you're supposed to show up
versus how you actually are. Just be that person. Please,
don't get chat. I wt to write something for you.
Think about conversations you've had. This is where so many
of my posts come from a conversation I've had with someone.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Like I was talking to this leader the other day.
They said, X y Z, here's what I thought. What
do you guys think? And it all comes from there, right,
that's actually quite simple, super simple. I get inspiration everywhere.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
One of my biggest barriers was like I don't know
what to write about it, and I don't say and
what do I even stand for? Don't go there like,
let's not like spiral and go like this is like
full personal brand, Like what do I stand for? And
what are all the things? Just think about an experience
and what you've got to bring to the table, something
you've noticed recently, and.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Then you can just put a little bit of that
out there and get over the ick.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Okay, yeah, okay, So.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Let's say you're on board. Now you feel like you're on.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Board, I'm on board. I'm ready to start working on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah, you're going to show up a bit more.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
You're going to become a little bit more visible, or
do the invisible work become more visible.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I feel like I'm not ready to do a full
post just yet. I think I want to let people
know I'm on LinkedIn without actually saying yeah, you want
to contribute, Yeah, I want to contribute.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
That's okay. Contributing is really good, and that's like a
great first StEB. Here's a couple of.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Things that work for me at the start, and they
are all very like simple, small moves that didn't.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Feel gross, like talking to me or like don't freak out.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Honestly, it gives me like this visceral reaction thinking about
how I felt then and the cringe in my gut
when I post something and I feel like, see me
sick about it?
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And then move on and now you're.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
A legend post so good. If you're not following Lisa
on LinkedIn, you're doing something wrong. You're probably the only
person I'm following on LinkedIn that actually makes sense that
I'm following.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Oh good. I was in one of them. I was like, shit,
we bucket? Am I falling into that she's talking about?
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
So we're gonna like gradually build your visibility over time?
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, and I said this at the start.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
This is really important because no one sits in a
role for thirty years. You are going to have different
roles of your career, and that might be in the
same industry or it might be in a totally different industry. Altogether,
you got to start chipping away at that and working
on what that is and building those connections. So a
couple of low effort, high impact ways, which we like
these kind of things for someone is like comment on
(17:50):
a post, okay. So find a couple of people that
you like. You're like, Okay, this is kind of interesting.
I like what they're posting about. They're not trying to
sell me anything. Comment share your take two sentences, and
that gets it in and gets it visible with the author,
and you can start to feel okay with like posting.
So I don't just like stuff like share what you've
experienced on that, okay. I think something else you can
(18:11):
do is tell someone outside of your team what you're
working on, so you know, this week I'm working on X.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Because of why we talked.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
About this in an episode around just broadening your exposure.
Now what we're talking about here, we've dabbled in, like
the personal brand Linkediny kind of.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Space for work, but this is also about networking.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, because I also thought when I had like all
these randoms on my LinkedIn, I was like, oh, I
just need to find other people in media. I only
need to connect with people in MoMA, mea or other
media organizations. And then I feel like that's where you
get trapped.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yes, yeah, like you have your blinkers on almost like
people even do this in organizations and go, oh, it's
just about me and my team and these ten people
and that's all that matters. It's like, what about the
rest of the business and what you're working on and
understanding what they need because you might work with them
mono projects could be good to get to know them, relate, etc.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
We're just gonna make time for that kind of work.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah, be visible, pass something on. I think this is
really easy. You touched on this before. We all read books,
listen to podcasts, check out articles, etc. And go oh
that was actually helpful and text it to a friend
or send it to them on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I love doing that. Yeah, you're like, hey, this is
so cool. Just share it more broadly. Yeah, I saw
this thought was really cool.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
This is one of the things I did often actually
at the start, was like listen to podcasts and go
here's a couple of people I like following. Here's a
couple of podcasts I found that are really helpful in
this space. And people love that stuff because they're trying
to uncover what's interesting too.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Do a little bit of that. So just share on
It's not about you. It's just about something you've found
and you've learned recently, so that's helpful.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
It's not about what you stand for nothing.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
It's not about your personal brand.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
It's just about something you're interested in, which actually goes
a bit of a way in saying a bit about you.
Yeah yeah, and keep in touch with people who already
rate you. Okay, So what I mean by this is
like we all work at other jobs or have worked
in different industries with clients, etc.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Keep in touch with them. It's like, hey, what are
you working on? How's thing going? Just thought I touch base.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
You don't have to have a meeting, you don't have
to have a coffee, just send them a little message,
going great to see what you're working on, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
At the moment. Just keep doing that. Do I just
keep those connections alive.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Yeah. So for example, I met with someone Luke the
other day, who I used to work with about six
years ago, who works in the digital space, and we
just like riffed on ideas. He's like, I've been working
on this kind of thing, have you considered this? Like
I've been working on this, have you considered that?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Etc. So just a sharing of ideas that's so interesting.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
And now we're both very top of mind for each other.
So the other day I've referred someone on to him.
I said, oh, you might want to meet Luke and
work with him, and he did the same for me.
Neither of us asked for this, but we were both
very top of mind because we're keeping interested in what
each other was doing.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Oh that's really intriguing.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And like, remember they already rate you because they've worked
with you, so you've got credibility. And it's way more
comfortable having a casual chat with someone than an interview.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah that's so true.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Right, Like you're running this podcast m and you're interviewing me.
Isn't it better that we've had a few casual chats
along the way and you can't know what I'm boat
rather than be going Okay, ready to interview. What's your
first question is the first time we meet?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And I also feel like with interviews, when you go
down that strategy, yeah, someone always expects an outcome from it, Yes,
Whereas if you're just having a casual catch up and
you're just messaging someone to check in, Yeah, neither of
you are expecting anything out of that conversation, and good
if something does happen, but there's no pressure for something
to happen.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Yes, So I ask you, what's more cringe like connecting
with people networking like that? Maybe posting something you've liked
on LinkedIn or sitting through an interview with someone and
it's the first time you've met them and you're just
there to impress in that one single moment.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
I feel like it's the latter. So those casual chats
are really good. I mean it's often the first point
in time, Like if I'm talking to a girlfriend or
something and they're going, I'm not sure if I like
my job, I might look around like maybe I'll get
something else in six months. The first thing I always
say is like, start reaching out to people who used
to work with who you know, grab coffee, just check in,
just kind of build that momentum. Okay, it's a good
(22:04):
one for networking. And I think just build a tiny
like habit or commitment out of this for yourself, because
we can all get trapped and lost and busy in
the visible work. So you can go, what's one invisible
piece of work I could do this week, whether it's
like reach out for a casual chat, just drop them
a DM share one podcast I've listened to probably this
one and this definitely definitely this one, and put it
(22:28):
out there on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
You go, Okay, I feel good about it.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
I'm like kind of chipping away at it and I'm
keeping my work open.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Oh that is such good advice, like do the invisible work.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yeah, the invisible work is so important. The relationship staff,
I can't even tell you. I mean we chatted about
it in another episode on you Know, Understanding Different People.
I think relationships are so important, and we get so
busy at work and caught up that we forget to
spend the time with each other.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, okay, so it is now my favorite part of
the episode. Well, we've actually got a messages saying this
is everyone like a lot of people favorite part of
the episode.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
But making you listen to the well, making you listen.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
To the end, and also you just want something really
quick and easy. You're my kind of people. So it
is time for out, which is an acronym. It's not
just get out. It stands for one useful thing, Lisa,
this is your kind of brain chilt. Like you made
out and pretty much taken credit for the definition.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Of this is ours. This is ours.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
So I've got an out today. Mine is something you
said right at the beginning of the episode. People need
to know what you're good at, what you're working on,
what you care about, what you're learning. And I feel
like that phrase has just stuck in my head because
it's a catalyst of everything else. Like when I ask
myself these questions at work, it reminds me that, oh,
I should probably tell so and so I'm doing this.
(23:47):
Oh I should probably post on LinkedIn that I'm doing this.
And it also reminded me that, like what you said,
when making connections with other people outside of your network,
I feel like when you're constantly progressing in work and
building your career, you forget that you probably have a
whole list of skills that you haven't tapped into for years. Yeah,
And I think about this all the time because now
(24:09):
I'm an associate editor, so I do a lot of
writing and a lot of podcasting. I spend six years
working in audience development and social media. Wow, and I
forget that I have that skill set, and that's something
that I always try to bring up at work outside
of work. So I feel like when we were talking
about LinkedIn and what to post, I really want to
hone in on that skill set to just show my
(24:30):
connections that, Yes, podcasting and writing are my passion projects.
I love doing it, but I can also.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Do this, yes, yeah, And I mean also that particular
skill would make you better at what you do, right,
because it brings a totally different lens to it.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yeah, tell me more about that, Like, I want to
hear about it after this, and I want you to
start posting about it.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Would you work on my first LinkedIn post to get.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Write it together? Dear Diary. Here are my thoughts for today. Please.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
I hope it starts with dear Diary, because it feels
like that's what some people's post are commit to just
doing one little thing as well, and that is like
reach out to someone who's to work with, have a
casual chat yeah, or share a podcast or an article
you've seen this week. Simple, so simple, and it starts
to show people what you're interested in.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Oh my god, you can do it. Thank you so
much for listening to this week's episode of BIZ. For
extra content, you can always follow us on Instagram at
biz by Mama Mia. We also have a weekly newsletter
that I say all the time is very, very free.
It has all the information and takeaways you need from
this week. There's a link in our show notes for
you to access that. Bizz is produced by Sophie Campbell
(25:29):
with audio production by Leah Porge's and we'll be back
here on your podcast feed next week.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Bye bye.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Mamma Miya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
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